The Ariel Helwani Show - Lewis Crocker vs. Paddy Donovan post-fight reaction show

Episode Date: September 14, 2025

Petesy is live from Belfast with full coverage of Lewis Crocker vs. Paddy Donovan.He gives his verdict on the decision (02:38), shares post-fight reactions from Lewis Crocker and Eddie Hearn (05:22), and sits down with Gavan Casey to break it all down (21:14).

Introducing first, laying out of the red corner. He wears the cream trunks with the Irish castle. The South Pole stand tensed on five pounds, seven ounces. Professional record, 14 victories, one defeat, with 11 wins coming by way of knock him. He fights out of New York, England! The real deal! Galavan!

Gadiman! Gatim! And is upon the cross the ring fighting out of Arbor, the nuclear. He was red with white and black. He scaled 10 stone 6 pounds, Six senses, professional record, 21 victories, no defeats, 11 wins coming by way on the knockout. Fighting out of Belfast, Northern Ireland,

Louis, the crowd Cracker! Crocker! Ladies and gentlemen, after 12 rounds of action here in Belfast, we go for the judge of scorecards. Reese Carter, 115, 111, Patti Donovan. Paul Cardini, 114, 112, Louis Crocker. And Mateo Montella scores this contest, 114 to 113, for your winner by split decision.

and the new IBM welterweight champion of the world from Belfast, Norman, Lewis, the Cat Rector. Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. All week, we were thinking Paddy Donovan was carrying himself with the air of someone and to use his own words who would become the new face of Irish boxing yet Lewis Crocker is the winner of the IBF Welterweight title Lewis Crocker is the man who could propel himself

into such a situation there's talk of Connor Ben and all sorts of names in the aftermath of this he wins in front of 20,000 people at Windsor Park honestly one of the craziest atmospheres I've ever been in I don't think the fight was as good as the first one, but what a win for Lewis Crocker. I personally, I thought Paddy probably had done enough. He had been knocked down in the third. He had been knocked down in the fifth.

But I thought he won a lot of the rounds. It was an incredibly close fight as the scorecards you just heard described. But what a week it's been here. Well, Thursday I arrived in here and just a whole town transfixed on this fight. I was very lucky to be around a lot of great boxing minds, as you guys know, I'm more of an MMA guy. So to be able to pick the brains of the likes of Gavin Casey, who you're going to hear from later on,

David Moyen from BBC Northern Ireland, who was, you know, seeing Frampton fights, seeing all the fights really around here. So such valuable people. We had Joe O'Neill as well. Unbelievable people to be around all week. it was a mad night. I mean, just to see boxing in such a huge spot,

obviously we've had trouble down the south with the likes of the Regency thing and Katie Taylor's fights kind of revived that, but it's different gravy up here. And I think it's going to get only bigger now with Crocker as champion. The people love them out here. Donovan, a very strange situation.

As I said, there's a lot of people online crying robbery. We're going to talk about that later on. with Gavin Casey, but a lot to unpack here. I was actually just in with the lads, and Kevin Bourne was recording his podcast. I had to leg it midway through that because the great Oscar Losef was waiting for these files. It is approaching 2 a.m. here in Belfast.

Canello and Crawford is going to start in a little bit, but let's hear from Lewis and Eddie Hearn in the aftermath of this fight. We've got some quotes of the press comments, and now one-on-one this time with Eddie, and then we'll hear from Gavin a little bit later on. Here they are. I mean, just the whole night, full of drama,

a very closely fought contest on the main event, and Belfast has a new world champion in Lewis Crocker, 147-pound IVF world champion, Lewis Crocker. Over to you guys for questions for Lewis and Jamie and myself, if you need it. Raise a hand, I'll give you a shout, yes. Without a doubt, I said, since the first thing I remember,

Eddie was me and Eddie were walking out when it just got announced and he says, it's a crazy how you think the way things work and I say is and the stars were Verlain from me, Eddie, it's here. And I knew, like, I knew this was my moment and just a visualised like everything about tonight and hearing on the new and then the sailing pause and you're waiting there and it says, Belfast and all that was it like life's peak. It doesn't, it'll never get any better than that moment.

Yeah, for sure. sure, you know, I knew that I got boxed and I was giving them too much of an easy target last time and I knew if I had given me like a false sense of security and then draw them in, which it did, I clipped him with the first one, the drop him, and I knew that I caught cool law and stuff and bait, and I did in the fifth and, you know, he was lucky that was the end out around, otherwise he had pushed the pressure on and, you know, like, could I have went out and tried to put the pace on him, like from there, but in my men, I was like, just stick to what you're doing here, you know, I knew it was, when I was counting him, I was

hurting him and the main thing was it wasn't getting hit with anything everything everything was smart and just takes one punch to change everything and like I did it like tonight do you know I mean and yeah but like tonight couldn't get any better and nobody gave me a chance in that fight absolutely nobody I was a massive underdog and got slated the whole way after the second fight the lad so so yeah just give us up you do like you're talking but doesn't matter like does it you know what I mean like I knew just the way everything like was planning out just be calm like I love to I say it's from the like gickle like the underdog role and embrace that sort of and I was way more relaxed

you could see one once I heard him I could see you know like he was like talking it talking a bit like prior to the thing but once he knew when he got dropped and and maybe like oh I've talked all this all this shit about him and everything and that I'm on the back foot and whatnot so it was incredible and I have the Belfast fans there they hear like on the news like in the Belfast had my family with friends it was like it was a life-changing moment I knew I was a much better fair

than what I showed and I knew that he was gonna think that it's going to I'm gonna be the same fitter as last time round and I knew from the get-goer like instantly once he like missed that first shot I was like I got my distance here you know I'm not giving him an easy target and yeah like it was made a big deal

like everything like the buildup day fight he's like I don't look confident whatever and I played the role perfectly and the last time did he see me before I fought I made sure that I let him know I'm not nervous at all here so I slept like a baby last night woke up feeling good today and I'll sleep be even better than I don't know about that I love it look like I knew with the two knockdowns and I thought I'd guarantee three rounds anyway so in my head like I thought it would but you don't know in fights you know I mean like you don't know um so to hear this isn't just the the the here the the result and the the clerk of the

winner it's it was class to hear but you know Polly Polly's a great fitter like I've seen like articles like and they build up this fight like saying he's arguably air could be like the greatest Irish boxer of all time and stuff and that's how much people were building this guy up and then was giving me a chance so it was good they won't prove people wrong. The emotion that came out at the end you dropped your knees on on the floor and kissed the belt and I think maybe shed a tear in there as well I mean we could see how much it meant you like it's the you get into this like game to have them nice like that like who like ever pictured that do you know I mean like just the way everything

planned out and like to have like my family there and special listen I always say is like the only thing got me through is like never give up in the dream do you know I mean like I always picture like I'd just take one opportunity to change your life and I just knew like everything was meant to be like always big believer me Jimmy said it like everything is meant to be and I just knew that I needed one one opportunity and like Eddie Mottram give me that opportunity and it got me in great fights and this showed me the support and got Belfast behind me and did everything for me and and then I'm Chalding, Chantin of the world. Once I hit him, I was like, I was waiting for the clicker or something,

you know, like, so they'd see how much time's left and then once he got up when he was stumbling, but I know Pottie has a great shooting because I was, I remember Kesson in the first round and he was still there and stuff, but tonight I just, I felt it was a lot sharper and, and you know, Pottie's a great counter-puncher, so I know it was maybe, maybe should let the hands go more, but it's something I look back on and I don't know a much better fighter as well than what I even show tonight. I'm like I'm only getting started like, you know, I'm 28, 20, 22 fights now like but I've just, I've so much more improvement and I showed you like the difference

between that fight and this fight tonight like I'm only all got better. I was hoping it was I 100% since he went down at the same that we're getting up but yeah like once he got dropped it I seen he was stumbling and yeah great shout I knew the first knockdown I knew I clipped him so it did and then the second I just seen it with it was lovely show yeah for sure

like I've seen the resorticles like saying about Ben getting the winner of me and potty and but I've seen 99% of them posts were talking about potty and Ben you know like nobody was expecting me

to get to say about Ben so I just think like domestically it's a huge fight with great styles and it's like one of them they were it's going to be entertaining from the get-go

you know you know but Ben's a quality fighter and I always say like people always messes his name I was like there's no point of me even like saying anything because like what I have no bargaining chip you know what I mean like he's hardly why would he fight me like nothing to gain and such you know I'm so but now I'm work chapman so I hold them more almost now yeah I mean look you know the IBF who do a great job you know and they are quite forceful with their mandatories so you get your voluntary and then

unless you have a unification it's quite likely that you have to face a mandatory and you want to make that first defence count, you know, so we'll speak to Jamie and the team, but this is the opportunity to secure your future financially forever. I mean, tonight was a nice payday. Last one was a decent payday, and then the plan now is to make sure that you, you know, you can buy your house and you can have a great life.

And if you win, it's just a game of snakes and ladders boxing, you know. But not just Connor, Ben, but Devin Haney, Unification, if he beats Brian Norman, Roli Romero Unification, Tiafimo Lopet. I mean, these are the names that, you know, and they've never had a fight like that in Belfast. You know, those kind of names come in to Belfast.

But obviously, with Lewis and Conner being part of the matrim team, it's an easy fight to make. It does it. I mean, we had one more stand to do tonight. You'd certainly do that and some for a Conor Ben fight. And if we did it at the O2, he'd fill up the O2 half with some of you lot anyway. Do you what I mean?

So we've got a plan accordingly, but we've got to make it count now. Do you know what? Really difficult to score. Like, I gave Lewis Crocker the second round. I think the sixth round and the 12th round and the 2-10-8 rounds. So that's 2-10-8s plus three rounds, which is 1-14, 113 to Lewis Crocker. But the 12th round could have gone either way. The second round was a very tight round.

Do you know what I mean? And there was other rounds that were tight. rounds. I was shocked that a lot of the, you know, score zone, we had a couple of fighters that had Donovan up by a few after nine or ten. And I'm thinking, I can't see how that's actually physically possible. Donovan did win a lot of rounds. But after the two knockdowns, it's, you know, it's a really tough fight to win from there. And, you know, I said in an interview, I think Lewis would agree. If he lost by a point, I don't, I mean, he certainly wouldn't be saying this is a joke

he would say for I nicked it but I understand it can go either way so a point either way but I can see the 114, 113 card as well and maybe I can see

Paddy Donovan by a point I mean it's just a lot of those rounds not a lot happened if you like the more eye-catching shots they come from Lewis Crocker you know

but like he said he didn't really get hit clean with a lot of big shots tonight Paddy box really well he's a great fire But, you know, to be honest, when I got in the ring, I had absolutely no idea. Have you had a chance to speak there?

Not yet, no, not yet. They left the ring without doing an interview. Sorry? Just over a soccer one, I guess I'll break with him. Yeah, that's what we're going to call for. Yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, look, the end of the day, obviously, like I said previously, if Paddy wins tonight, he's looking for the big fights and the most lucrative opportunities. And the rematch is a big fight of the trilogy,

but it's not as big as some of the other opportunities out there, being honest. So, you know, I think Paddy will get his shot again, and we will make sure we give him big fights, and he's a quality fighter. It was much easier. I always knew a calm box and stuff, and I think I could put him out of his rhythm,

and I showed that, do you know what, I could hurt him, because I don't think, he just looked at me as like, you just looked at me as like I just go out and take the hard and he's just going to punch me to the face every time so it was good to land flush and put him on the campus twice. Was there anything that? No, I expected everything to go the way I did tonight. I just gave him a too much easy target last time so it did and I just knew when I was warming up tonight like I think a whole team seen me warming up I was it was just a different version of myself so it was and

yeah and got the job done there's not only did you get slated it a lot the last time but also Bolly obviously it's a big one for both of us but I think Bolly's going to rule Twitter tomorrow but obviously it's probably made it be easy I think a lot of people were saying

like you remember the wrong coach I think you probably proved a lot of people online that love to sort of hate and love to sort of break things up like it's massive for you and Billy probably puts them back in a pedestal where people can say Bolly is a world class coach that's it, you know, like, people kept saying, like, after the last thing,

I read, people checking in me. He's like, yeah, all right, you're all right, stuff. I was, like, I'd ground. I knew I was going to get the rematch anyway, you know, with the things regardless, and I knew it was much better fair than what I showed the first time, so I don't always have opinions about anything, but does it think I'm about about a bad,

hop me tonight anyway, do you know what I mean? Like, world champion now, and, as I can say, I've changed my life forever. Like, no matter what happens in my life, I always go down as a world champion, you know what I mean? And that's something that nobody could ever take away from me.

then days we were obviously very early on running around here sort of dreaming of ones apart you've now fought here twice you fought I think you ended up being co-main event of fron that night because I think you were sandwich between fury and fron you've now headline you're now world champion then dreams are obviously inspiration for the next crop of youngsters coming through absolutely like I know I say is like in the first press conference that there's going to be kids watching from the crowd tonight be like I remember the day Lewis cart and that'll inspire them like and that's a pretty cool, cool moment. And I can't wait to do about 80 years of years and just sit there my own grandkids.

We'll see your grandda. We'll see your ground up. We'll replay that every thing. Yes, yes. Hold on. We always hope that we can come here, but you need the fight to come here. You know, I mean, we did it previously with Lewis, you know, and we've done it at Ulster Hall as well.

We've done many shows in Belfast over the years. But that was by far the biggest show. we've ever done one of the biggest shows ever in belfast so and now he's the world champion so you know we always and you know kevin won as well jaco you know he kept going on and he he showed a lot of heart tonight so some great fires i mean tara mcken i thought was retiring for the 48th time tonight and then i said well done mate great career he's like what you're talking about well you got to get me another fight i'm like you know he's just and a lot of good young fighters as well you know like i thought by the way i thought the all irish uh fight with farrell and and uh yeah

ball and was just unbelievable to watch. Sometimes those fights are just, you know, it was just brilliant to watch. A couple more guys, because I promise we'll be. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. Thank you. I'll do that tomorrow for Sunday lunch. Yeah, and that was at a time where the WBO was just emerging really, and Aymann was a great fighter, but this is a really, really big win, you know. This is an established belt in a red-hot division at the moment. And, you know, I think it's going to get really exciting from here. Oh, right, I mean, atmosphere-wise. I mean, look, I've done, I don't know, 20 stadium fights.

And that was one of the smallest stadium fight crowds because sometimes you're in Millennium Stadium, Dallas Cowboys, Wembley, you know, I mean, it's quite a lot, to be honest with. But that is special. I mean, and another thing I'd like to say, and sometimes a little bit controversial, I didn't see any trouble tonight really and that was always a concern

and we spent a huge amount of money on security and policing because it's very important that people feel safe and comfortable to come to these nights we also understand there's a lot of you know sort of blood pumping around the body

you're at a night of the fights and there's beers going everywhere but I was really pleased with just the feeling there tonight you know sometimes you go to an event and it just feels a little bit you know I saw a lot of kids there tonight I saw a lot of women I'm sure there was a hardcore support as well

but I saw a lot of families there and I think it's nice that we can sort of leave here and I'm sure it was lively in certain parts of stadiums but sometimes you see pockets of incidents and troubles and we didn't have any reports of that tonight and that was really nice to see no we should can so we did

you know I would say a major respect there as I say like a potty is a world class fighter and like we've shown We've shared, what, 20 rounds now together in a year, or like, in so many months. So, you know, I've respect for Pottie. No doubt that we're back on the world stage. And, yeah, you know, and I've shared two.

Like, it was the first all-R-H world title fight tonight, so that'll go down in its history. So that'll have won't. I know, but I won't move. Just do I say any sound like this? with my family and my friends and I think it's going to take away listening as well

but amazing last one last one are you going to walk home with the bell tonight you live really close to here it's a good shout you know it's a great content

it's great content it's great content but see what happens thanks for all your support guys thank you roll out roll out really cool Lewis Crocker immediately after and what a night this is for him. I mean, the people of Belfast absolutely love this guy. You heard at the top of the show, the booze Paddy Donovan received

ahead of the fight. I mean, there was plenty of Donovan supporters there. Don't get me wrong, but obviously Lewis Crocker, who lives a short walk from Windsor Park, who is a fan of Linfield, FEC, who play at Windsor Park. I mean, this is the stuff of dreams. Absolutely incredible. Obviously, him and Heron plotting their next move here, but what a few weeks of celebration those Crocker's going to have ahead of, I mean, in the aftermath of this win. Gavin Casey, as I promised, will be up next. He broke this all down for us.

I did tell him, like, you know, I only want you for five minutes, Gavin. It did turn into 20 minutes. But, you know, I'm glad he fleshed out for us. I then rudely interrupted Kevin Burns' podcast and made a brief feature and probably made an ass on myself, so apologies to Kevin also. but here he is Gavin Casey explaining everything we need to know about Lewis Crocker's next move and Paddy Donovan's where does he go from here here's Gavin Gavin this fight was kind of billed as well not billed it was Paddy Donovan was adamant he was going to come out of this as the new face of

Irish boxing Lewis Crocker comes away with the win first of all I guess a lot of the reaction I'm seeing online is crying robbery and things like that. Are you able to say that when you've been on the canvas twice and you're fighting this guy in his backyard essentially? Is that a bit of a stretch to say that this was a robbery? Usually when I watch a fight, I have a very clear impression of what happened afterwards. And this one I really wasn't sure as to who won it. I scored it to Donovan by a couple of rounds, in which case I would have to say that he's justified in saying it was maybe not a robbery but controversial or close right but there's a thing in boxing which is like you can win a fight but you can also just win the story of the fight and in a fight in which very

little happened to score two knockdowns sort of swings the story of the fight in your direction and then it tends to be the case that a couple of rounds will just fall into place for you if they're very close rounds as some of them were because they were nothing rounds I thought patty probably won like he may have actually won eight rounds if you take away the knocktowns but you can't like the first one's unlucky he slips but still a legitimate knockdown

the second one is a ballistic missile that crocker hits him with I was surprised that dunfin was able to get up I actually thought he was pretty naive with how quickly he got up and it kind of shows that maybe it's a positive for him in a generous sense he hasn't been on the canvas much in sparring or in fights it was his first time tasting it tonight where he got up

at basically the count of two really you should stay down for eight seconds and get your senses back and he didn't really I'm not sure if he fully fully recovered until like the 11th round when he sort of up the ante again but so I kind of understand it from the perspective of Donovan if he feels as though he was robbed or it was contentious I would say absolutely it was contentious but I don't have a huge issue with it when a fight in which very little happens is determined by the two flash points of the fight and they were both caused by

Lewis Crocker he sort of landed the shot for which this fight will be remembered which was the fifth round knockdown a legitimate thunderous knockdown could you really look at that fight like without watching it back and say that

Donovan left his impression on it not really now I have to stress that's not how you're supposed to score a fight you get me right but I come away from a kind of feeling feeling as though I'm not aggrieved by the decision. It was close enough in the end

that I kind of can see how you can make the case that Crocker won it. What does this do for Crocker then? If Paddy was looking at this fight as a way to make him the new face of Irish boxing, we're hearing things like this is one of the most important fights in many years in Irish boxing the first time two Irish guys are fighting for a title,

does Crocker then become the new face of Irish boxing? theoretically yeah i don't see why not really likable guy sort of conducts himself as though he's like a master's student in university or something right he's like he dresses cool he's well-spoken he's kind great facial hair yeah he certainly does have that as well and everything about him is quite marketable i would say he's really he's an open book isn't he lewis like really transparent in terms of how he answers questions in a press setting it's funny because he's actually really difficult to get to grips with in terms of actually landing an interview to begin with. He's very averse to media in a general sense, just couldn't be arse with it.

And, you know, you might get on to him and he will just leave you on red or leave you with three unanswered miscalls and he'll continue playing PlayStation or whatever the hell he's up to. You know, he's quite private in how he carries himself that way. But when you sit down with him, he's so engaging and articulate and the scenes. at the end of that fight. Like, on a human level, I couldn't help but just be absolutely delighted for him. He's gotten through a lot since that first fight with Donovan, where he was broadly outclassed. He spent six months basically being written off ahead of this fight and had his reputation

tarnished, even though he won, strictly speaking, in March. And to pull this off is life-changing for him, I think, in isolation. So before we talk about what comes next for him, and I know that was your question, it's like, this is something that can never be taken away from Lewis Crocker, that he won a world title at Windsor Park, stones throw away from where he grew up, where he went to support Linfield as a kid and continues to do so, he won a world title in that stadium and there were 20,000 people there to watch it, there were X,000 people watching on Desone. So you can kind of frame that, like, you know, you hang onto that belt or a replica of it and it's above the mantelpiece for the

rest of your life. And Crocker is the kind of guy. he's humble enough where like that would nearly be enough for him, I suspect. But now it opens the door for him for fights with more recognisable names, Ryan Garcia, Teo Fima Lopez, Conor Ben obviously, who he's cited immediately afterwards. And then you're into the realms of life-changing money, right? So I think this fight, this victory changes his life in terms of how it secures his legacies to a certain extent. And by that, I mean, he's always going to be a world champion. He's going to join the really illustrious list of Belfast World Champions. But the next day of his career is where like you earn enough money to not only pay off a mortgage, but maybe

buy multiple properties, buy multiple cars. Set yourself up if you have a partner down the line, kids down the line, you're talking nearly generational wealth if you get a few of these fights off. Now you have to win a couple of them to keep the run going, right? But going back to your question, which feels like a long time. How you're doing a great job? Can he be the new face of Irish boxing? Absolutely. It was never, to me, it was never the case that, like, it has to be Donovan or that the red carpet is almost rolled out for Donovan.

It was the winner of this fight. I don't want to say the face, right? Because we're sitting here having a conversation shortly after that fight. Recency bias is in the air. 100%. Calamontas is going to fight in two and a half hour's time live on Netflix in front of about 20 odd million people who are going to be tuned in, right? these chief support to Canello against Crawford

and even passive observers are going to watch him. If he does well, then, okay, he's not a world champion, but he's certainly one of the faces of Irish boxing. Obviously, as well, like, if we were to be serious for a second, like Katie Taylor is the face of Irish boxing. It has been for a long time. So it's not the case that, like, there's only one. I guess the idea that I would have had going into this fight

is that the winner of it will sort of propel the sport and become one of the country's flagship fighters and almost become like the post or bull. where Taylor is the poster girl, if you like. And there's no reason why Crocker can't do that. That's however contentious you feel the decision was on his CV, it's a legitimately brilliant victory. He has all of the kind of out of ring qualities to be a star if he wants to be a star.

I'm actually not sure if he could be bothered. He's that kind of guy, you know, he's just, he'll go back and chival with his family. He's going to go on the tear for a couple of weeks. He's that kind of a fella, you know? He's going to book a holiday. I'm pretty sure. he'll be over in thailand or wherever else having a great time and eventually he's going to come back to the ring but like i'm not sure if he looks at it through the lens of i want to be the star

of irish boxing the thing is when you win a fight like that and you win the first ever all irish world title fight then you are by default a star and you certainly have the capability to be like that guy like the guy if you like um with honorable honorable mentions for somebody like hallamov somebody like Anthony Kikachi, who recently was a world champion, is from Belfast, a former clubmate of Lewis Crocker's as well. They're very close. He only relinquish his title so that he could take on more lucrative fights against English rivals, right?

So Kikachi's up there, but yeah, Crocker beat Paddy Donovan. Paddy Dunnifin's a good fighter. Crocker had that leather strapped around his waist. Very few Irish fighters have done that, you know? We're perceived to be this fighting nation. We don't have that many professional world champions going through going back through our history and Lewis Crocker is one of those and he's the only active mailboxer to have that honor.

Connor Ben was mentioned. I want to know how you feel about that. Does that get the juices flown? Like you've mentioned Garcia and different names like this, T. Fimo. Is this the least attractive one for you in terms of the names you mentioned earlier? It's the least attractive one for me in terms of like the spectacle or the event. because I just don't really care that much about Connor Ben without meaning to be too harsh on him. I guess, look, his excuses for failing the drugs test that he failed have never stood to reason for me or they're not satisfactory to me.

And that will always kind of follow him to my mind. Talented boxer, not like an elite boxer to my mind. And where it does appeal to me is that he's about to fight Chris Eubank for a second time up a middleweight he's going to have spent two fights up a middleweight 160 pounds to come back down to 147 after that is a big sacrifice i don't mean like personal sacrifice i mean like physical sacrifice and you're rolling the dice there you may not be the same guy when you pair your body back down to that smaller frame or sorry i guess like have less of you within your frame right and that's where i'm like what if lewis quarker just thumps connor ben

the way he landed a shot on Paddy Donovan in the fifth round tonight, which, by the way, is far from inconceivable. I would have said before tonight, Paddy Donovan probably beats Connor Ben. I wouldn't have been less sure about Lewis Crocker. But I do think Ben is kind of operating around their level. He has the name recognition,

which gives him the kind of a profile that would suggest that he is better than he actually is. He's number one world title, Conor Ben, right? He was kind of only got well to wait for a fair bit of time without challenging for a world title as well, by the way. And I would suggest that match him kind of know, you know, there are fallibilities there and you need to match him carefully, in which case, yeah, Crocker can beat him. And, like, that would be a transformative victory for sure.

It's also like the most marketable fight you can do either in Ireland or in the UK at the moment. But for Crocker, I mean, that's certainly for Ben as well. Because suddenly you think about how Eddie Earn is interpreting this, it's like he's looking at Crocker, one of his other fighters, as eminently beatable. and a chance for Conner Ben to win a world to wait a world title. So it works out both ways for him. 100%. And like, even in Ireland, you'd have to say Conor Ben is pretty well known at this point.

So it's a big money fight for both of them. It's winnable for both of them. Maybe that's a bit of fun, you know? I guess from me, it's like, yeah, I'm just, I'm like, again, I don't want to be sort of like too negative about Conor Ben. I don't know, but he doesn't do much for me. Whereas I'd be more intrigued by the prospect of, like, you know, Lewis Crocker against, like, Ryan Garcia or something like that,

where it's like, that feels a little bit more stratospheric to me. And it feels, and also, by the way, some of those guys are talking about, like Teufino Lopes is a better boxer than Lewis Crocker, but, you know, he's hitable on his day. Ryan Garcia is certainly hitable. Devin Haney, that's a tough night for anybody, I think, in fairness. But, like, some of those ones are just appealed a little bit more to me than Connor Ben. it's um one thing i was thinking about though afterwards is that like what if you have this

little sort of triangle between crocker ben and donovan now that could be a bit of crack right you know you're starting something there that that would excite me certainly a standalone fight between cropper and ben yeah listen i'll be back in belfast forward or i'll head wherever for it for sure but you know it probably doesn't move the needle for me personally as much as a fight against one of those sort of big-name Americans. I told you five minutes. It's nearly now 15. One more question.

What do you do with Paddy Donovan now? Very, you couldn't help a feel for the guy. So much confidence coming into this. It really felt like this, he certainly felt like this was his moment. Once again, crying in the chest of Andy Lee at the end. And he got a feel for this guy who's dedicated his life to this, as is Lewis Crocker. How do you rebuild Patty Donovan at this point? I don't know if it requires much of a rebuild

but the reality is that the road is blocked now he's not going to get an immediate rematch again with Crocker because of those bigger knights that we've just talked about there are bigger fights for Crocker they're more lucrative fights for Crocker and that is equally true of Matrim who promote both Crocker and Donovan so he's not going to get that chance straight off the bat

it's difficult to well it's not inconceivable that you go down route of like trying to climb the rankings of another sanctioning body like that'll only take a fight or two and suddenly you're back up at like three four with the wba or whatever you know they're all it's all nonsense really like you know what i mean you can fashion a world title chance again for sure in the next 18 months but the problem is that you're talking about 80 months like you're talking about two three fights down the line again for patty and that's tough um i have sympathy for him again on a human level the way i was excited to see lewis win the fight on a human level but

I have to say, that was an underperformance by Paddy Dunnamet tonight. And that's probably the bigger question mark for me as opposed to what comes next for him. It's like, why did that happen? You've got genuinely one of the best trainers in the world in Andy Lee. And you have one of the best welter rates in the world in Paddy Dunabin. And it just felt a little bit off to me tonight. I say this, by the way, as somebody who 10 minutes ago said, I felt like he won the fight.

But it just didn't really feel... It felt as though he didn't quite commit to enough. And that's even before the legitimate knockdown in the fifth round. It just felt a bit tentative. You could argue that he was controlling it, but... You know, he hits harder than he showed tonight, Donovan. It's funny, like, the fight sort of flipped on itself in that. Going into the first one, people presume that Crocker is kind of the banger of the two.

I think those were sort of kind of followed the sport a little bit more closely, would have said, no, actually, like, Paddy's actually the bigger puncher here. And that proved itself in the first fight. And you had that preconception coming into the second fight, but then it's Crocker who suddenly looks like the puncher tonight, and nothing that Paddy landed really was like, oh, sorry, not

nothing. He landed some good shots, don't get me wrong, but very little of it comparable to the first fight was like really like flush or he wasn't sort of like spinning Crocker's head around the ring the way he started to round six, seven-ish in that first fight. And

I don't want to say he looked flat I think that'd be going too far particularly after the knockdown which is going to give you that kind of brain fog which takes a few rounds to shake off and I think he did around round 11 I thought Donovan stepped on it then it just felt a tiny bit too late

but it's like all of the conditions were right for him to win this fight he was like supremely confident coming into it I don't think he was overconfident I think even Crocker coming alive at the way in on Friday would have really focused him if that was needed and we heard from andy that it was just like an insanely impressive training

camp by him and that he was conducting himself like a world champion showing the qualities of a world champion um i would have to say like he probably yeah look i thought he won the fight so i'd have to say he did perform like a world champion but i still feel as though he performed slightly within himself and uh that's going to be an interesting one for them to figure out you know there could be some really quick solutions there or Occam's Razor type answers to those questions but it's like from the outside looking and I don't know what they are and you know he probably lost a little bit of his aura tonight you know he conducting himself like like he was the king all week and and I don't mean in a sort of a way that should be criticized or to be honest like

it it felt befitting of him yeah like the way he performed in that first fight I'm like I understand why you're carrying yourself around the way, around Belfast this way, because you feel as though you have this guy's number, and you kind of showed us that you do. But when you take all of that into consideration, and it's like, why did you not show us tonight? It's such an interesting thing for him to figure out. I've always been a tiny bit wary of Donovan's defence.

Like, for such a slick boxer and a really, like, skillful Southpaw, there are times where his head is just too static. Like he possibly just a couple of bad habits that he would have had as a kid and he probably has a good enough chin that he gets away with it. But like at this level, somebody lands a shot like a shot like Lewis Quarker landed on in the fifth round, you're not going to get away with it. You're just not, you know, and he didn't. He did extremely well to get up from it.

But it's probably a shot that like I'd imagine he and Andy Lee would be surprised that he got caught with that shot. You know, that's one for them to iron out as well. and listen where does he go next in terms of like who does he fight next i don't know i think you just it's not that important right like he just needs to get back him there yeah but it's like jeez it's tough to get yourself up for what comes next isn't it if you're in his shoes you were so close i mean arguably you actually got the job done and you know he'll feel as though it was taken away from um you know you fight some kind of relative no mark next from from, look, I don't want to name a country because it's going to be disrespectful to that country, right?

But really from any country in the world, but it's going to be somebody with a record of like 17 and 2, 11 knockouts or something. It's not really going to get the juices flowing. And that's dangerous territory for anybody where you kind of feel as though you belong to the big leagues. You haven't quite reached it. You do a little stint down in the championship equivalent, right, or kind of the bottom half of the primary league where you're kind of mixing a company that you feel as though you're above. that's where bad habits can be exposed that's where you get caught because you couldn't quite get yourself up for a full training camp where you started to cut corners where subconsciously something seeded into you where you just feel like you this guy isn't worthy of all of the training that I put in for Lewis Crocker previously for example that's where it gets slippery because you lose one more and you're done as an elite

entity right now Andy Lee is a good enough trainer and has been through it enough himself, including setbacks like tonight, that I'm pretty sure he'll be able to navigate it or steer Donovan in the right direction. But it's like, it's such a, it's such a treacherous part of a boxer's career now that, into which Dunnivan faces, like, two, three fights off Broadway, so to speak, sort of maybe third on a, third last on a card or chief support to, you know, who knows and one mistake in one of those and you're not world class anymore you're not in the conversation for world titles anymore so like you have to get this absolutely spot on you know it's crucial it's crucial and yet it doesn't feel as worthwhile as tonight would have or as last

march would have at the sissy arena so yeah good luck to good luck to and patty in navigating that like it's incredible to think that the margins were so fine you know the first knockdown the patty suffered i haven't watched it back yet but like it looked to me like i mean it clearly looked that as though he slipped because the canvas was wet because it was pissing rain in belfast right and you're talking about these this is like a decisive factor in the fight like crocker the two score cards that go in his favor 111 13 111 12 if that 108 round doesn't happen donovan probably wins like don't even to my mind kind of won that round other than the knockdown and just typically I don't agree with it, but when there's a knockdown,

the guy who scores a knockdown gets around 10-8 for the most part. So without that, without that little slip, you know, has that patch of canvas been a small but drier? We're talking about a Donovan victory, right? Christ, like, that's tough. And, you know, instead we're talking about a Crocker victory. We're answering questions and asking questions about Connor Ben, Teufima Lopez, Devin Haney, whatever else,

paying off a mortgage, buying more houses. Based on that moment, right? And for Donovan, it's like, well, one more mistake and his career was effectively over. Crazy, like, crazy. Well, Gavin, thank you so much. That's been absolutely tremendous. And thank you for all of your help this week, my friend.

Hey, best five minutes I've ever had. Always a pleasure to speak to Gavin Casey. I mean, one of the true veterans of the crack now at this stage. Amazing few days here in Belfast. It is an incredible city. If you haven't been, go. All the people are fantastic. much history here. And obviously if you're a combat sports fan, it's becoming a huge MMA

spot as well. I know we usually are an M.A. show, this is the home of Paul Hughes, Reese McKee, FAA, who are, as many people believe, and myself included, they are the powerhouse gym on the island at the moment. Look, I had a fantastic time here. Thank you again to all the lads, Gavin, John Hill and Dave Mohan and Kevin today it was an absolute pleasure being here for this

the first world title fight contested between two Irish men not a lot of people thought Lewis Crocker would get it done but once again here I am with egg all over my face it's going to be interesting to see what happens

with Paddy Donovan next a guy who looked absolutely primed for the spotlight I have a feeling he will be back I have a feeling he will be back in these toilet conversations. It's just a bit of a longer road now, you might say. But as we know in combat sports, one fight can change everything.

Thank you so much for listening to this show. I'm about to lock in for Canello Crawford. I'm picking Crawford. And as I said, in the Crack on Friday. Let's see how that goes from you. Love his all. Thank you so much to the main man, Oscar Losef, by the way. I'm sending them all these foils at like 2.30 a.m.

He's going to get this bad boy doing for me. I have no doubt in my mind. Thank you all. See you soon. Bye-bye.