The Ariel Helwani Show - Live from New York! Taylor vs. Serrano 3, Jones vs. Aspinall at The White House, UFC 189 anniversary | The Craic

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

For the very first time, Petesy Carroll hosts The Craic from our New York studio!Craic stalwart Chuck Mindenhall joins him at the top of the show before Irish boxing journalist Gavan Casey arrives to preview Katie Taylor vs. Amanda Serrano 3, which takes place tonight at Madison Square Garden (11:33).After that, Petesy and Chuck react to Dana White’s Full Send appearance where he discussed the possibility of Tom Aspinall fighting Jon Jones at The White House (53:17) and what will set up a meeting between Ilia Topuria and Islam Makhachev.The lads then discuss the 10-year anniversary of UFC 189, before taking a look at Conor McGregor’s latest appearance at the BKFC press conference (59:12:28).Chuck also gives insight on ghost-writing Ben Askren’s book after the former UFC fighter revealed he “died four times” after undergoing a double lung transplant (1:02:17).

For the very first time, the crack is live from New York ladies and gentlemen. I'm Pizzi Carroll as you know. What a week it's been here in New York. I mean, my god, on every show under the book, the boys in the back even had me on for crying out loud. Looking forward to getting a few Killians into me later of course with the boys, but what a week it's been and can we just take a second to admire this Seth. They've pulled out all the stops for young Pizzi Carole here. We have the Haypenny Bridge in the background here. We have a beautiful sash taken from On Air Jordan's home. Shout out Jill. And look at these t-shirts. We have the Champion Katie Taylor t-shirt. We have the event t-shirt

that I got yesterday at the weigh-in. I mean it it's all coming up Pizzi Carol. Look at the massive logos we're seeing around here. And what's this? A jar of M&Ms. A tricolour. Maybe you'll be finding out all about how we constructed such jar on Thursday next week on The Boys in the Back. It is a very exciting week, of course, today in Madison Square Garden, the trilogy fight between Amanda Serrano and Katie Taylor is going down. All of the Irish have arrived, all of the Puerto Ricans have arrived.

The spirit in the building last night was absolutely amazing. Of course, we do have MMA news to get to as well. Dana White has been talking about the big White House card that GC doesn't think is gonna happen He's been talking about Tom Aspinal and John Jones potentially in that White House fight Even though we just were told that that fight is not happening He's also talking about Ilja Topuri and Islam Makashev another fight which we were just told is not happening A lot to be talked about and

just to say before we get going today our usual audio producer Mr. Oscar Loseff he's taking the day off because it's his birthday so happy birthday to young Oscar Loseff and a beautiful young man I hope he has an absolutely... oh that's beautiful oh oh it's like a crooner version of happy birthday isn't it? It's beautiful it's beautiful a Kroner version of Happy Birthday. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Thank you. That's enough.

Okay. Oscar's not here. We don't give them that much. Lads, can I see in the back there? First of all, I love you very much. This has been a beautiful, beautiful week with all of you. How I look at GC in the 1990, the Italian 90 Jersey full tricolor.

Oh yeah. With the tricolor behind me, could have used an iron, maybe a steamer back here, but we're working with what we got, we're working with what we got. We're working with what we got. You need to be brought out for the kit launches for Ireland. Like these things fit you like a glove. I've never seen.

A glove. It's just like to the sleeve. Oh, look at those. God. I mean, it's just like to a tee. It fits perfectly. Yeah. I already got my fit on for, for the fights later.

I'm ready to roll. Man, you, you like Roy Kane didn't look that good in that jersey, it's incredible. That's what people told me. Someone stopped me on the street today and they were just like, ever tell you you look better than Roy Kane in that jersey? I said, actually, yeah, my friend Pizzi does all the time. On Air Jordan, man, you've pulled out all the stops here.

This is absolutely beautiful, man. Thank you so much. Yeah, man, you only come to New York once, so I mean, everything that I did was pretty expensive. I did ask for other things that you rejected, but I'll send you the bill and we'll set it all up at the end of the week. I've actually, I lost my email account, so I don't know how I'm going to get those receipts. I'll just take it straight out of your wallet that's sitting next to me. Ha ha, damn it! Thank you very much Jordan.

Andy's here as well, Andy a legend, and Frank of course, my beautiful, beautiful friend Frank. How are you guys doing? He's all very excited. The first live crack, come on, this is exciting stuff. Happy to be here, man. That's really happy. You're killing it. Extremely happy.

Thank you Andy, I needed that. To hear the way Frank was just like, whatever. The energy is high back here. Come on, yeah, okay. Never base it off of Frank. You can tee Frank up perfectly and it'll give you two words. This is beautiful. It's filling me with confidence. And look, the reason why I'm so confident is we have a very, very special guest in here with me right now. That's a man who's done more cracks

with me. And I mean the podcast, not actual crack. Debatable. Everybody, it's Chuck Menhall, the man that had the greatest MMA writer of all time, Chuck. I mean, all the way from Connecticut, you've traveled. Yeah. And this is my first time in the studio and you're coming from Ireland and you've been here all week. So I'm glad I finally got the invitation on the Friday of Fight Week. What do you think of the studio? It's very beautiful, man. You know what I like is the objectivity here as a good journalist and all the Puerto Rican stuff. Representation that we can take a look at you know. We had so much of it that we just didn't know where to put it.

We thought it would clash with the green and we're like we don't want people to you know. Well they don't they don't want me looking in and going I wonder where Peter is from. Because I could be confused for a Puerto Rican then. I'm actually from Ireland guys okay. I just want confused for a Puerto Rican then. I'm actually from Ireland guys. Okay. I just want to clarify that before we move forward. Chuck, three years since the first one. And we were there at that as well.

And it was a magical, magical time. But before, before we talk about that, there is another member of the team who isn't here today and it's not going to be the same without him. Sorry. It's just usually be the same without him sorry It's just Usually we do the show cars with Ben. Yeah if we talk quietly he won't Cannot be with us on today's show because he's had a pretty brutal fall on the ice playing hockey He's lost all of his limbs

They've been chopped off by errant... what are they called? Kletes? Skates, I believe. Look, I mean, what do you remember about Ben when he did the show? Just the smile. And... is... is your

devir, is that how you say it? He always had a little twinkle in his eye. And his beard was always so well-monitored and his hair so nice, you know? What a good tribute though. You know, we should have told him more about that smile. That smile that lit up homes all over the world every Friday. All right, all right.

He couldn't be here. All right. Ben, we He couldn't be here. Right. Ben, we'll see Ben next week. He's he's completely out. But we miss him. Limbs intact. Limbs are all there. We find out you lost some limbs now. We're going to feel pretty embarrassed. Sure. Guess I was saying, uh, the first fight at MSG was a bit of an iconic moment and, uh, we were sitting up there and we, I know like people would usually want to be beside the ring

and maybe when we sat down and we're in a bit of a higher location we're like, oh well I've been not too happy about this but we did get to soak in the crowd which was basically split down the middle between Puerto Ricans and Irish and the atmosphere in there was absolutely incredible that night, April 2022. It felt like, if you remember our whole dialogue going in was, can you believe we're here? These women are going to headline Mecca, right? That had so many. And you walk through MSG and you see the posters of, you know, Muhammad Ali of Joe Frazier. It felt like a big moment.

And it ended up being a bigger moment because here we are three years later doing a trilogy fight and what I think, and I was writing about this, is the, you know, the biggest rivalry we've seen, and probably the most significant rivalry we've had in women's boxing. So that night was magical, man. It was just the crowd, the way that the crowd got into it. And it was weird because they would kind of intercept each other.

Every punch, it felt like there was somebody erupting within that crowd. And in that fifth round, you remember the round when when Katie really got banged up and she was she's bleeding and it looked like she was in big trouble that place was I'd everybody was standing it was as loud as it gets even the dignitaries all the people around the ring it just felt so like you were part of a crazy experience you know and for her to survive the fight not only survive it but to win it what a wild thing man. It did feel like a coronation moment that

night and it's interesting because and we're gonna have Gavin Casey the great Gavin Casey from Ireland to come on and talk to us a bit more about this now in a few minutes but it's crazy how we kind of came away from that event the first one going like this is the Queen of Boxing she felt like she had this regal moment and it felt like it was a culmination of these decades she'd put in. I've been talking all week about what she means to women's boxing, but the second fight then is so interesting because she's been sullied like, you know, people on the broadcast, like it's crazy to watch the broadcast now knowing how

it's all played out and the commentators are so scathing when they release the scorecards. Of course, Jordan Maldonado, Serrano's coach, being so visceral, like this is a dirty fighter, all this kind of stuff. Amanda herself, and I know she apologizes for the next day, but in the ring when 47 million people are watching, she's like, we know she's a dirty fighter. She did it to Chantelle Cameron, she's doing it to me now it's wild how the narrative has shifted despite Katie being undefeated in this in this rivalry it's been crazy and I guess that's what rivalries do right they go through these different

you know moments where things turn or there's something that 40 minutes of action and if they if you get a large audience that basically saw that second fight fell in love with it but thought the wrong person won and now Katie being a you know a pretty sizable underdog going into this fight but just kind of bearing the brunt of it and carrying a chip on her shoulder and seeing how all that plays out I mean this is you can't get better than this you remember Serrano was almost like she was wide-eyed through that whole first process at MSG.

She really didn't have the money. So when they were, when Jake Paul's trying to bet a million dollars, remember this whole thing? She's like, oh my God, this is crazy. We're talking about a million dollars. And to kind of end up now where they've kind of helped each other get rich and become like these names within the industry, it's been an odyssey.

And so it feels like you're coming, maybe, maybe it comes to an end tonight, but there's a possibility we go best of five. I mean, that is, that is what we're all worried about in Ireland. There's like, we'll talk to Gavin about this more because he's talked about it quite a bit, like this paternal instinct, the Irish people have,

and it's a bit creepy. He always says like, it's a bit weird the way we're like, Oh, protect, protect Katie. He's coming in here in a minute, but, um, I will say like that first event. Do you remember Larry taking down to that area? Yeah. And we're in there. Taurus.

Yes. The legend. And we were in this locker room and we're about to record our, our old show, the ringer MMA show and in walks Katie Taylor and Ariel who's hosting the show gets up from the table and he goes over to speak to her. I mean, you were just like, yeah, Katie Taylor. Yeah. And Ariel who's hosting the show gets up from the table and he goes over to speak to her and me and you were just like, yeah, Katie Taylor is here. I don't know. She basically was like, Hey guys. She had her whole entourage to kind of with her and celebrating.

It's just a world to think back on it, man. It's a magical, magical. We get anything like the first two fights, you know, where you get like a fight of the year and then something that's even crazier really in Dallas. Like this has to like a fight of the year and then something that's even crazier really in Dallas like This has to be considered one of the greatest Trilogies ever you got Ian Ward couldn't you know maintain their first one? You know what I mean? This would be like Gotti Ward Basically for women's MMA. Yeah, it's insane. We think about women's boxing. I mean, yeah, we do that a lot, you know That's what we're normally on MMA, you know, we will be talking about MMA soon. Everyone relax. Okay. But before that,

we have the greatest Irish boxing journalist in the world with us here today. It is Gavin Casey, who's come all the way from Queens. Here comes GC. This is amazing. Look at the man getting moved in here. The great Gavin Casey of the 42. It is a pleasure to be joined by him as always. How are you, sir? Look at you. Very, very well, thank you. Gavin, Joke, of course, you know each other. Yes, we met. You don't start mentally jousting each other now, which are two beautiful minds.

He stays in his lane, we're all, no. Gavin, how are you, first of all? Are you doing well? I'm flying it, man. Yeah, this week has been such an antidote to what happened in Dallas, which was a difficult week professionally for various reasons.

Why? What happened? Just a difficult week to negotiate and navigate. And this has a sense of being something more pure, you know. I heard you guys talking about the way and the electricity of it last night. There's something a little bit more human about it all and a little bit more conventional as far as a boxing event goes as well so I've absolutely loved the week so far I wasn't that excited coming over well because it's the third fight of a trilogy in which one of the boxes is

two-nailed up ultimately yeah up to zero so I was quickly disabused of my lack of enthusiasm and I'm raring to go and I'm absolutely buzzing how are you doing my my man? I'm doing good but like I mean you mentioned that you're flying it. What happened on Tuesday when you were actually flying? Oh my god. You were taking off you're like oh I might make the open workouts here. And what happened? You know the open workouts were set in the Oculus Center at the rebuilt World Trade Center and they're designed by a Spanish architect Santiago Caldovara who actually designed not the bridge behind you, Pizzi, but the James Joyce Bridge and the Samuel Beckett Bridge in Dublin. And he's designed this Oculus Center to resemble a dove as an ode to peace given the context

and the location. And there's no taxonomical differences between doves and pigeons but I found in my experience pigeons are more so birds of war because a flock of them took out one of the engines on the plane we had to make an emergency landing back in Dublin we departed Dublin we landed in Dublin. How long were you up in the air for like? Maybe like 25-30 minutes so we weren't too far gone and I was sort of confident at that point that even if like even if we had to freewheel at home that the pilot would steer us back to safety. Usually I think what would happen is they have to dump the fuel over scary and then

turn back because if the engine combusts they want the fuel gone from the plane. So I was okay about it. I feel as though when you're in the sky just control the controllable man you know like there's nothing I can do but at point, there were a couple of younger people around me panicking a little bit, but. I'd been losing my shit, ah, ah, ah! I thought I was cool, okay, and then I peered forward to the row in front of me, there's an elderly gentleman,

and he was just locked into the departed. Ah, great, no. Yeah, but he did not even glance at the window when we landed back in Dublin, I don't think he knew what was going on, he didn't care, he wanted to finish that movie, and he finished it on the runway while we landed back in Dublin. I don't think he knew what was going on. He didn't care. He wanted to finish that movie and he finished it on the runway while we were taxing. He finished with the return.

That is crazy. Mate, mate. That is absolutely insane. Well, I'm glad you're still alive for us. Well, and everyone on the plane. Still alive. Yes. That's a nightmare scenario though, man. I cannot stand that. We've been emergency landed a few times coming out of Vegas like twice. Yeah, but you've caused that. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. 16 points, shouldn't have done it. What can you do?

Gavin, you've covered Katie for a long, long time. You have your finger on the pulse of boxing in Ireland like no one else. This is a very different Katie we're seeing this week. Well, in terms of like, I don't ever, I can never really remember her being, having her back up like this. And there's been moments in the documentaries you released where it shows like when she feels disrespected, she will go hang on a second. And there's been a lot of hang on a seconds here this week. I believe we have a video of some Katie Taylor trash talk from this week. The fact is I am 2-0 against her and

this week? The fact is I am 2-0 against her and opinions are opinions but facts are facts and you can't get away from those facts. Was that you hooting over there Gavin? Yeah I guess I'm just sick of the complaining and whining from your team. That was the YouTubers I think. Oh no, she didn't! Hopefully we don't have nearly as many for this one. You know what, we got a little bit of access to Katie afterwards in a media scrum. And I put it to her jokingly.

Like firstly, we were divided into four groups and and she was gonna come around to my group last, and I thought, knowing Katie, she's gonna do about seven minutes here, she's probably not gonna even get to me. And they had like, Nikesh Badaarian and others had warned us, do not leave your group, but I was like, f that, you know what I mean? I'm like, I need to get like, at least a question in.

So I just blurted one over the shoulders of the people who were supposed to be there. And I was like, you know, Katie, like you've obviously become one of the biggest trash talkers in the history of supposed to be there. And I was like, you know, Katie, like you've obviously become one of the biggest trash talkers in the history of boxing at this point. And she was like, she was like me. But I said to her, like, you are speaking more freely and you are engaging with Amanda more so than you have in the past or or more so than

than previous opponents. And she made the point that like she was sick of the nonsense, as she put it. And she said that, I don't mind speaking my mind when I feel as though I have to. And the fact that she feels as though she has to is interesting to me, because it does mean that Serrano has gotten her back up.

I think Serrano stirs something in her that we only typically see behind the scenes, which is that antagonistic side of her. And people who have followed Taylor's career would find it difficult to believe that there is even that side to her but as you guys know any boxer who reaches like that top point one percent of their sport who's there you know like whose career earnings have set them up for life they're freaks and of course they have that edge to them right and like Taylor is capable of turning

the screw on Amanda a little bit. She absolutely adores the fact that she's 2-0 up in this rivalry. And I believe that a big, you know, aside from maybe five or six million dollars or whatever it is that she earns tonight, a massive carrot being dangled in front of her was the opportunity to go 3-0 up on Amanda Serrano and just twist the knife further. I mean, you know. Can you imagine if she makes it just emphatic? This would be like, this would be the moment. Cause you almost like then the first two fights you forget, you know what I mean? Any asterisk that you want to place on him, you beg now. I mean, will

she, where, where it is. Okay. The only Rosie Perez wanted the asterisk. That's true. But how interesting is that? Right. So Rosie Perezracted those comments about the asterisk. She said I think she said something along the lines of that's gonna haunt me for the rest of my life She felt so guilty about it. I may be misquoting her there So don't quote me on it But it was something roughly along those lines and she's not on the broadcast tonight, right? And Mara Ronaldo is not on the broadcast. I legend as well. Mara is a legend. I didn't think it was his best night No, I mean now, But I really like the guy. And it's an entirely new broadcast team. Leila Ali is on there, daughter of Muhammad Ali, who's a massive Katie Taylor fan by her own admission.

And I wonder, I mean, I suspect that Taylor's team when they sat down for contract negotiations would have actually had some kind of an influence over those creative decisions. But in the Netflix trailer, Perez's comment is in there, right right so Netflix still used it as a hook to sell the fight but didn't actually give Perez the the opportunity to make amends for it I guess or to appear tonight Chuck wrote about the Royal Reef around crown you wrote a great piece about it and and this is the thing though it is the great hook you need something as you said like you're coming over and you're like, she's doing all up. Like what is it to get excited about? It is that whole doubt that's been cast that, uh, the sullying of this, uh, near saint of Ireland, you know, it's like, oh, she's dirty. Actually. Did you ever watch your foot? She's really dirty. And, um, you know, I mean, that's, I've heard that quite a bit from people who don't pay attention. I'm not kidding. People mention the headbutting, they mention this stuff, but they don't really pay attention. They're just tuning in for the Netflix.

Mike Costello was on a podcast with me yesterday, or I should say I was on a podcast with him. He's an absolute legend, British broadcasting legend. And he made the point that if Taylor was truly a dirty boxer, she would have been penalized for it a lot more in her 23 previous fights before, say, the Cameron rematch, which is where this narrative kind of began, and before the initial Serrano rematch. And I do think in Dallas, Serrano was taking the lead from Cameron, who had made that initial complaint, but it was a new complaint at a very late stage in Taylor's career, right?

She did back when she beat Rose Vellanche for the IBF title in Philadelphia, way back when, 2017 or something like that. That fight, like she did crack heads with Vellanche as they both lunged forward. The thing is with Taylor, she gets tired quite early and that's where it becomes an absolute roller coaster, right, after three, four rounds,

she's hanging out her arse a little bit, she's 39 years of age, her legs aren't what they used to be and that's why like I truly believe as much as I have a huge admiration for Serrano's boxing ability and courage and everything else like I do truly believe that had they fought around 2019-2020 Taylor would have had her way with her and maybe made that emphatic or achieved that kind of emphatic victory that she may still do made that emphatic or achieved that kind of emphatic victory that she may still do. But when she tires, she gets a little bit crude, right? And she abandons all of that beautiful picturesque technical boxing that you and I would have associated with her from the amateurs.

She becomes a warmonger, but with that, she does lunge forward. And it's not that she's trying to intentionally headbutt an opponent, but she doesn't care if she does. Right. So it's careless. It's bord that she's trying to intentionally headbutt an opponent, but she doesn't care if she does, right? So it's carelessness. It's bordering on dirty. I was asked yesterday, is there a grain of truth to the idea that Taylor is dirty? And yes, I would say there's a grain of truth. Get him out of here!

All right, that's when Gavin happened. Cue his music and get him the fuck out of here. No, but, you know, if you watch- Even in the first fight, the collision of heads almost happens a couple of times. You go back and watch it. I don't really feel like she was doing anything. Maybe you have a different take, but it didn't seem like she was doing anything too different in that second fight.

They just happened to clash the heads. No, I completely agree. And the incident for which she was deducted a point was an absolute farce. That was barely even a head clash to begin with. Yeah. You know, Ross Inamai has a compilation as he often does of Surrano lunging in with her head as well. And like he pointed out quite rightly afterwards that Taylor was also caught here. The idea of leading with your head in combat sports is counterintuitive as we all know, right?

Yes. This idea that it would be a secret weapon of hers or almost her primary weapon doesn't really track with reality to my mind But I tell you what it will be interesting to see how she negotiates that tonight because if the perception exists If that becomes reality to a referee that she's under pressure, right? I think it's nearly guaranteed to happen in the foot. Well, it is guaranteed to happen But what I mean is if Serrano embellishes head contact right and you know throws her arms out, I can absolutely see that. Well at least we know her coach won't be very vocal about it. But by the way, always take the high road. But by the way if she does, good

honor like win this fight by hook or by crook for either of them right? Yeah. Even if it means actually deliberately using your head if you can get away with it do it like this is elite prize fighting. Like cut out the bullshit, the whinging and whatever else. This is a contact sport. Do whatever you can to win. If that means bringing the referee into the equation, do it. So I think Serrano will try to do that. But what I wonder about that is like, does it influence Taylor to try to sit off her a tiny bit more? Whereas in the initial rematch, she actually deliberately tried to outgun her a little bit down the stretch because she felt it was the only way she could win at that point.

Like does this change in dynamics maybe slightly influence Taylor's approach to this fight? Probably not because as we know, she's a lunatic. Can I ask you guys, you've been around her a lot more. Like I've seen her just the one time in person, but her being emotional, I guess, like carrying some kind of anger or contempt for what's happening. Like, have you seen her in this kind of form before?

Has there been somebody who's brought this out and like, how do you think she handles it? Because some people, honestly, if they go in there emotional, you know, good competitors have done it their whole lives. It does alter things for them. I would say that only Serrano has really evinced this from her, right? I would say that Delphine Pursune evinced this from her, right? I would say that Delphine Pursune annoyed her because when she fought Pursune at the Garden, excuse me, in, was it June 2019, on the undercard of Vandy Ruiz's unbelievable upset of Anthony Joshua, most, well, I don't know if it was most, but certainly a lot of people felt as though Pursune won that fight.

I was there. I had a pretty good view, I'd scored it a draw, I watched the fight back, I scored it a draw, I didn't think Taylor had done enough to win it, but honestly, it's 10 rounds, I scored them five each, you know, and because Pursune kicked up such a close, I'm desecrating this flag here, and I won't stand for it. I cannot believe this, I mean this guy.

He's gonna secretly put the Puerto Rican sash. You think? No, I wouldn't live that one down. Like because Pursume was so disgusted with that verdict in the end, like she had plenty to say afterwards. And when they fought in that rematch, Taylor, I would say was spiky because of course she's going to be ready. It was probably the first time.

In fact, it was the first time really where an opponent had a legitimate claim to having beaten her Jessica Jessica McCaskill an excellent boxer who went on to become an undisputed champion tried the same thing but it didn't have any credibility because Taylor had beaten her quite convincingly. Pursuant had a claim right so Taylor obviously was annoyed by that but the beautiful I guess like the, what transpired to be interesting about that to Chuck's question is that if she was emotional

or if she was angry, say, about it, she produced like this beautiful technical polished boxing display to beat Pursune more convincingly the second time around. And if you recall the verdict after that fight, Pursune bowed to her as though to say, look, you got me this time. And if that's how it materializes that Taylor's able to convert that emotion into a more disciplined performance, then she probably wins tonight.

But there's something different about Taylor and Surrounder together, right? That's why it's a great trilogy. They, they bring the devil out on each other and I just don't know that game plans play any role in this fight tonight, or at least I don't think they will be on like the first or second round. Can it really exceed the first two though? Well, I didn't think the second fight

could go for the first. I mean, that's what I'm saying. So it's- Which one was better to your mind? What do you think, Chuck? I thought the first one, but there was something about the added drama of that cut, you know, happening so early. But it's also like the second fight is because, you know, we talked that week. It was, it was Jake Paul and Mike Tyson.

It was like a blemish on the court. Right. And they were the other side, the ledger that kind of gave it some kind of merit. They showed true. Like in a way, like all you were thinking about, like it was impossible to see past Paul Tyson and you were just thinking about how badly it could go wrong and then this beautiful fight happened.

You know it's like it's like my god she's doing it again these two women are doing it again. They are showing like this is what boxing is. This is the purity of the sport. This is the brilliance of the sport. And by the way that's why they're back here in the main event. Netflix recognized that. And Paul deserves at least some credit. I was gonna ask you about that because obviously you were at that, you wrote a brilliant, brilliant article. Had that scene, I don't know if you remember,

Brian Peters trying to go up at the press conference with Katie Taylor. And he's like, they aren't letting him in through and he gives them a what's for, let's say. What are you gonna do, big boy? Yeah, that's what he's gonna do, big boy what a legend but it feels different this time in terms of like this this is a meaningful card like a massive amount of world titles on the line all types of women fighting on this card a real a real uh spotlight like we've never seen on the

women's sport obviously in Florida uh when I read your piece I felt like you were almost like I'm a dying breed I'm here to cover this sport as a journalist and I don't feel like there's a lot of people around me. Has this been a more pure affair than what you saw in Dallas? Yeah it's been anecdotal you know it's it's been like the antithesis of Dallas in ways. It's reminded me of I haven't been doing like dredging up the war Haven't been doing this for that long right like you and I are roughly the same age I've been covering this board for maybe eight or nine years about seven of which I've been like lucky enough to be able to travel to these events.

And I thoroughly enjoyed that era, sort of between 2019 and just before, yeah, maybe 2017 as far as the pandemic, where what an experience that was and there seemed to be still some value in the written word at these events whereby promotional outfits would accommodate you and recognize that as much as younger people may not be reading a subscription service in Ireland, there would still be an audience there to whom you're exposing the event. And that has died off very quickly, I would say, in recent years. And Dallas felt like the nadir. But also like, you know, like, I'm glad I skipped it in the end. But you know what, like it was, it was a very rewarding professional challenge in the end because you have to ride around it. You know, like, I remember

like this, like, listen, it's kind of bollocksology now, right? Like I wrote about it at the time, but there was a post whitefight press conference in the bows of Cowboy Stadium. I was an accredited journalist. I got down there like pretty soon after everything had wrapped up. I had filed my report and they wouldn't let me into the press conference. And I was like, what, like, what is the problem here? And they were like, oh, it's just a little bit too full inside.

I was like, yeah, like I said, it's a pretty highly subscribed event. I would imagine. But I could see in the door that there were seats there, you know? So it was just a guy being a dickhead. And like, so I'm like, okay, how the hell am I gonna get into this thing? And I saw Shadaysia Green, who's boxing tonight

on the undercard coming along with her team, and they were going in a back entrance to the room where the press conference took place. And I ran over to them and I was like, guys, I've flown from Ireland to cover this event. Is there any chance you could just pretend I'm part of your team and I could go in with you? And one of her trainers or S and C guys was like, man, absolutely. We love Katie, by the way, come on in. So that's how I got into the press. Wow. Think of how stupid that is. And I don't mean to,

like I'm not somebody who like believes anything in media is really sacred. I think of how stupid that is. And I don't mean to, I'm not somebody who believes anything in media is really sacred. I think you have to move with the times. Whatever people are interested in is what probably should exist ultimately. But the fact that Netflix don't deal in words at all, they deal in numbers, sort of throws us out of the last one.

Where it's different this week, maybe this is a little bit of a self-indulgent way to like interpret the fight. Because I think in a general sense, it's just a more pure and enjoyable affair anyway. The atmosphere is better. It's more familial, right? There's a lot of kids around. It's everybody's just in a good mood. It's a bit brighter. Dallas, all the events were very dark and horrible. There's no 58 year old former champion. They are off the back of eight blood transfusions to make it that far. But because Netflix recognized that Taylor and Serrano on their own don't quite have the brand

recognition of Paul and Tyson, they've had to involve as much media as possible. So they have made them accessible to us a little bit more, which just makes the week a little bit easier from a creative point of view. And what I like about this one, you mentioned at PTC the fact that it's an all women's card and it is on an unprecedented platform for the women's sport, is that where you have 300 plus million subscribers as they're at pains to remind us all week,

whatever portion of that audience tunes in will be enormous. OK, but it will be organic. There will be no caveats. Whatever figure they were floating around after the Paul Tyson event was like 74 million people tuned into Taylor Serrano cumulatively or something along those lines. Minute by minute, 47 million. Yeah.

I mean, you know, there's a lot of massaging going on there. I'd imagine of those numbers. But like it was still like I'm sure there would have been, again, a portion of that 74 million who wanted to watch Taylor and Surround Up, but we'll never know exactly the number. And a lot of them will have been passive observers tuning in to watch a car crash, the same as people who watch reality TV at night. So this one is like every single viewer they get is going to be an organic sort of real viewer. There will be

Yeah, there will be no caveats afterwards and that will be that will prove an interesting piece of data to my mind because If the number is big it will prove that by boxing on that undercard in Dallas as much as it To some people may have solid them slightly. It actually helped their support ultimately help their cause. Yeah. Um, what do you think of the fact that this is a very, very, if you, well, look yesterday at the way in a felt like Serrano was the champion. Yeah.

We have, we have the video. Oh God. I don't know if you saw this Chuck. We'll stick it on here. It's a, here comes Katie Taylor who walked out first and you know, the lights are very nice in the background there. And as you can see, she's standing on a platform here and she's, her abs look fantastic. Fair play Katie in absolutely ridiculous shape. 135.8 pounds. So out first, of course, she is the champion. She's two and O up in this situation. Here we go. Champ, champ, here we go. Watch this. Look at the platform. What is happening? Yeah, what is that about?

I haven't seen the official broadcast footage of this, but Taylor's reaction to it is very funny. Like, she had made a comment at the press conference that she knew, like, I know that all of MVP are against me, right, but I understand that she kind of retracted that in a conversation with Nikesa Bedarian afterwards, because they actually get on relatively well and MVP treat Taylor with respect, relatively speaking. So I don't know that she felt as though she had worded that correctly, but as Serrano was ascending towards the heavens there in

front of the adoring crowd at MSG, Taylor and Bedarian are both cracking the shits laughing with each other. So you know Taylor said to him, I told you you were against me or something along those lines. It's like someone had a righteous gemstone. I mean just the fact that she was second. Like Serrano came out last. Even that. But does this play into what we were talking about earlier when I was like, this is just going to add to the chip on Taylor's shoulder. We saw it. It has to. It wasn't just, it wasn't just the loss to Cameron, I feel. When she, when she went to that rematch, there was a different kind of chip. It was like a lot of the retirement talk. I remember there was a lot there then, but I think of course,

seeing this will only fuel the fire to some extent. It's got to, it's got to. I think Serrano's fuel the fire to some extent. It's got to. It's got to. I think Serano's demeanor and all of the contractual stipulations that she has received and the couple that she tried to get, including three-minute rounds that she didn't get, are interesting because you could view it as maybe somebody who is just like really trying to convince themselves that they are the star or they are the A-side, like trying to gain that tiny 1% psychological edge over the other. And one of those stipulations was that the fight takes place at a 136 pound catch weight, right?

And for anybody who doesn't know, Taylor's light welterweight belts, which are 140 pounds, are still on the line because 136 is just above the lightweight limit. So it's still technically a light welterweight fight, but it's four pounds lighter than the weight at which they met in Dallas. So what we just saw, or if you're listening, it was footage of the ceremonial weigh-in from yesterday evening, but they weighed in officially early in the morning. So it's in a nearby hotel, the New York State athletic commissioner there to witness it, to register it, etc. And Taylor got there bang on time, 1.35.8, and she was hanging around waiting for Serrano, and Serrano was AWOL. And from what I understand, like

even Serrano's team were a little bit annoyed just by the fact that the whole process was becoming so prolonged. And when she eventually did get there, she hit the scales at exactly 1-3-6 with a delay, which would suggest that she maybe had to hop in a sauna for 20 minutes just to get rid of those last couple of ounces. And I know Taylor's team were over the moon that she was late because she was the one who made the determination that this fight would take place at a catch weight, but it looks as though of the two of them, at least,

she was the one who struggled more to actually make that catch weight in the first place. So it's an interesting dynamic. It may mean absolutely nothing ultimately, but it's just one where I wonder, has she like, almost like by adding so many wrinkles to this, like trying to gain those advantages, is it like almost too much to compute or maybe it just takes from your focus a tiny bit like and a more conventional approach as the as the challenger even, which she is,

might have been a little bit more beneficial. Yeah, she's what do you guys think this atmosphere is going to be like tonight? Because the first time I was a little surprised to be honest that the Puerto Rican, you know, they showed up. It was crazy. I really thought it was gonna be 80% Irish that first time and it was way closer to like 50-50 I thought. Oh, definitely. You think that's the same tonight? Yeah, and I think that, I think that like as much as we're kind of saying like, look, this is a close fight, the second fight. This isn't, uh, you know, Katie Taylor is not this outward, just trying to headbutt everyone kind of fighter. There is a lot of that narrative that is like the Puerto Rican people are like, you know, Amanda was robbed.

She was robbed. She won that fight. She won the first fight. I know. What is going on here? We need to correct the record here. I think they're going to have their backs up a lot more than the Irish here. This is going to be like, though, imagine if this is another razor close fight. Oh, I think it's right.

And they give it once again to Taylor. Can you imagine what this is going to be like? Yeah. The facts are, I would say the original one would have been like 60, 40 Irish. And I think tonight will be 60, 40 Rican right like I think 5,000 people traveled from Ireland for the first one nowhere near as many people are going to travel from home for this one I think purely because that first one the significance of headlining a Madison Square Garden for the first time

it felt really seminal right yeah I know this is a seminal one for women's boxing in general given the nature of the card but that one felt seminal for Taylor it felt like one once in a lifetime trip for a lot of sports fans from Ireland who wish to support her with the fact that this is the third time they're fighting. Understandably people wouldn't be willing to fork out the couple of grand it's going to cost to get over here. In which case there are more tickets available to the massive Puerto Rican population in this city and also a key point here is that Amanda Serrano was a far bigger star now than

she was three years ago. You know, you can make the case that purely through her association with Taylor, but also because in fairness to Jay Paul and MVP, they've done an excellent job of platforming her. She's a legitimate boxing star. She was fighting down at the theater, right? Like just like a year prior, something like that. Not Heather Hardy, right? Like that fight was just at the theater and to kind of catapult into the situation. And on, you know, even like Eddie Hearn signed her for a three fight deal in order to create

the first Taylor fight for, you know, I mean, he tried to make it for many years and she dragged her heels and refused to take it, took it a couple of times, pulled out of it, et cetera. And like all of that, all of those delay tactics were vindicated because in the end, when they met for the first time, she made a million dollars. So her and her team deserve a lot of credit

for not only how great a boxer she is, but for the fact that she's, in boxing terms, a bit of a commercial behemoth now. Like people think of, I think it's like, there is like the 0.01% of boxing, your Canellos, Terrence Crawford's, Fury's and U6 who make like 30, 40, 50 million quid per fight. Like anybody who gets to Taylor and Serrano's level who's earning maybe like, certainly seven figures per fight at this point, is doing better than like, you know, the vast majority of professional boxers who have ever lived.

So both of them are like legitimate, there's nothing tokenistic about it is my point anymore. I think like in an effort to elevate women's boxing, of course there would have been like exceptions made and maybe Times in which the the quality of female boxing was embellished or exaggerated because like people wanted to see it do well and people want like people like Eddie her and wanted to see did It have potential commercial scope. I think it does now at least or at least these two boxers do know and

again like to, to, um, on Serrano side of the equation, like she is a person now that I think Puerto Ricans would, would travel to watch the way Taylor was three years ago. I don't think it's just going to be Puerto Ricans from Brooklyn turning up tonight. I think it's going to be people from Puerto Rico turning up tonight. Yeah, it's, um, you have one of the best, like the one of the most unique takes on Taylor and the constant talk about retirement around her. And I've heard you say that you've said it to me a number of times as well, but it's something that naturally pops up in the question when you're 39,

I mean, even boxing as long as Katie Taylor does, but Kate Taylor does not like the idea of all of us sitting around and having a, having a chat about, yeah, maybe it's time, you know? He doesn't like it. And I believe you call it the Irish people's paternal instinct, don't you, when it comes to Katie Taylor? Yeah, because there is a compulsion to protect her, because she's a national icon to our country. She's a cultural institution in our country. People have followed her career,

like most people passively, right? Because boxing is just not a big sport in Ireland, but people have passively followed her career since she was 15, 16 years of age and started winning medals. She's 39 now. She's been in people's lives for a really long time, bringing success through Dublin airport every time she competes at a tournament or in her professional career competes for world titles. She's given people at the Irish diaspora amazing nights in Boston, in Philadelphia, in New York, in the UK, etc. So she means a lot to people and people don't want the next fight to be the one that is too many. That's understandable. It's an understandable instinct, protective instinct to have towards somebody who means that much to your country or to you personally.

But I think sometimes people just don't articulate that well and they maybe, I would never be forceful in saying like, oh, she has to retire. She's also an intelligent 39 year old woman who has conditioned herself like better than most boxers to have ever lived to the point that like when she's in trouble in the fifth round in the first bout, she somehow recovers and actually just about nicks it down the stretch for example. So like I would trust her instincts here if she feels as though it's a good idea to take this fight.

If she wants to fight again afterwards, like I'm not going to lie, like I'd probably be like, why though? At that point, I would, you know, I just, because I don't, man, I'm on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, go make it, you know, look at Pizzi. Look where he is now. It's gone big time. It doesn't go to his mailbox for less than it's all true. It's all true. Can I ask about the, your reaction to P Taylor returning? That's something that out of left field. Um, and, and to be honest, we were talking about it like in the Netflix thing, like a little bit more of the emotional stuff again, though, like another side of it, you know? Yeah. Were you shocked to hear that when it came out or did you expect this to happen? No, I knew they'd been like they've reconciled essentially for and have been reconciled for several years

now so they're good you know. Which just in terms of Ross the kind of guy Ross Animate is in our corner like obviously Pete did out like you know he was there for the whole running amateur all that kind of stuff like incredibly incredibly, like the most pivotal character, like in terms of Katie's boxing career. But Ross is a very forceful dude. Like he is not a guy that's gonna be like, oh yeah, I'll do this and then Pete, you can do this. That's the, that's where I'm surprised. I guess Ross, having worked with Taylor for so long,

would have the trust in her to, I guess again, back her instinct. But like, you know, it's a little bit like the fact that Eddie Hearn has effectively leased Taylor out to MVP for two fights in a row wherein it's, she's done a lot for you so you've got to scratch her back as well. Like she is coming towards the end. This is deep into the third act irrespective of whether she retires after this one or the next one. Like there aren't going to be more than two more, right? So I think like she has such kind of a gravitas that like if she wants to do something,

the people who have worked with her for a long time will be like, yeah, I owe it to you to facilitate that because you've given me a lot. So I don't know that it's, yeah, I hadn't really actually considered it until you asked me about it, to be fair. But I guess I wasn't shocked just because I know what it meant to Taylor to have trained under her dad and how influential he was. And we know as well, like from the documentary and from Taylor's own words, how damaging it was to her when they couldn't work together for the Rio Olympics. Like, if you think back to the Rio Olympics,

Pizzi, when she lost to Mira Paconin, a boxer who she had beaten every time previously across five or six fights, it felt as though she was past her athletic prime at that point. It looked as though she wasn't quite as sharp as she used to be. That was nine years ago, right? And I would make the point that like she is now past her athletic prime there is no way that you're not at 39 and if you look at old footage of her like she was faster she had sharper legs like her calves weren't seizing up she was able to move so for her to be able to adapt into the athlete she still is is remarkable in its own way but back at Rio she looked kind of

finished they like to anybody who isn't familiar, like this was- She looked athletically different as well. She did, like her shoulders were a little bit lower. Like to anybody who didn't really tune into her amateur career, she was an indomitable force. But suddenly at this Rio Olympics, she looked human. And I think she was around 29 at the time, which isn't old, but you could make the case that, yeah, like a lot of athletes do begin to weigh in in various ways around that age.

So people were like, well, that could be it for Katie, but like, look at what she's achieved since and it kind of puts into context how much of a deficit, the deficit at which she was operating without her dad there. The fact that she was like genuinely upset on a human level obviously would have interfered with her training, but the thing is, Pete Taylor is an excellent, he's an excellent technical boxing coach, but with real expertise in S and C,

and she was just missing that. So knowing how effective he was with her, for obvious reasons, like that bond between them. It's I mean, maybe it's a little bit that little bit of inspiration that you need to get yourself up for one last fight with a boxer who you've just about beaten twice already. So it's a very interesting story before you go, Gavin. I've got to ask you. And I just want to state as well, Gavin, he's not biased like me. I'm not going to lie to you. He has picked against Taylor many times publicly.

Uh, one of them has bitch in the ass, right? The second, uh, Chantelle Cameron, I believe, right? Uh, no, I, I call, I call, I call the Cameron fights correctly. Oh, which one then? Uh, Serrano last time. I think I may have said, I may have said Serrano would win the first one as well. You're a disgrace. I'm actually a big man. I think I may have said Serrano would win the first one as well. You're a disgrace.

I'm actually a big Amanda Serrano. I am, truly. I admire her. So what is it this time? That's what I want to ask you. This time around, tell me how you're feeling about this. Amanda Serrano. Genuinely, I think it will go that way.

Good almond though, right? I'll try to contextualize it because it's not, it's not so much prediction made through the lens of boxing skill itself. It's more, I think boxing as a whole or like if you were to discuss or describe boxing as being a singular entity, which it's not, but like for a moment, imagine that it is. I think boxing feels as though Serrano was old one right yeah and I Certainly wouldn't begrudge her one myself And I feel as though when there is that preconception That can seep into judges thinking in a two-minute round which is already so difficult to score when the boxers are evenly matched and on

That on that subconscious level if you're flipping a coin in your head You you may try and land it on the side of the boxer who's lost the previous two. That's a real thing. I really believe that. That's the strange thing about the judges. They hear what's going on. It's not like they've been sequestered.

I will have the caveat that I said similar about the initial rematch in Dallas. I felt as though with the fact that Serrano was the MVP boxer, with the fact that again she had lost the one previously, had she won the last time it would have definitely set up a trilogy about it. We got it anyway in sort of weirder circumstances than usual where one boxer has won twice, but I felt as though the industry demand was that Serrano win the rematch. And to be fair to the judges, they obviously scored it as they saw it. I was absolutely astonished by the verdict in that fight, even though I had scored it the same way, which is its own problem and a separate podcast for down the line, right? Like how weird, you know, how embarrassing.

It's crazy to have the same scorecard as the judges ever, right? And I think you were, you were on the board that night, weren't you? Well, yeah, well I had it 95-94, had it gone 95-94 to Serrano, I wouldn't have blinked. Like, fair enough. That was an incredibly close fight. But what I mean is that, like, I mean, how embarrassing is it for a sport that when the judges actually do their jobs, you're like, wow, this is almost unique, you know? And like, with this one, I just feel as though boxing, again, may feel that for Serrano to leave this trilogy without having won one of those fights, considering what she's given to the trilogy itself, considering what she's put into the sport, considering the degree to which she now has elevated the female game alongside Taylor, who for a long time was sort of spearheading it on her own.

And I don't mean to disrespect Claressa Shields and others, but Taylor was the commercial star of the sport. She was the poster girl for it. I think you, yeah, in a 50-50, you just lean around her way and just let her have this one. And like, I also think Taylor is playing with house money here. Yeah. She would be very, very annoyed to lose the boat, but I don't think it leaves a scratch on her legacy. If she does, what difference does it make? You walk away to one up against one of the greatest female boxers of all time. Worst case scenario, right?

I've got three words for you guys. Best of five. I will listen, Gavin, that's all we've got for you for you mate an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today, man Thank you so much. Good up here and give me a hug If we'll be in the media area if you get in we'll say hello there do if you can get in there I'm not going to make any promises. No, I've gone live on YouTube, so I don't know. He's doing a TikTok dance for every round. Thank you, boys. Nice one, Gav. You're a legend, mate.

Well, there you are, lads. I mean... Watch your water. Oh, yeah. Don't let the man leave. He'll be telling everyone, Pizza Car will rob my water. That's what he'll be saying. All the best, Gav. Well, there it is, lads. I don't think you're gonna get a better preview for

Katie Taylor. What's that guy's problem man? He was stepping on your toes the whole time. Get him out of here guys. That was great. I've never actually had a chance to sit down and talk to him. He's great man. He's so good. He's so good. Some people from Ireland are intelligent. It's not just me guys. They're not all like me. We're gonna get on to MMA but I just wanted to show you one video. I don't know if you've seen this. Berlanga is obviously fighting this weekend against Shiraz. And I don't know if you saw this. I didn't want to do this in front of Gavin.

No, he's already been to the circus once. I don't know if he's here to cover this one as well, but feast your eyes on this monstrosity between Edgar Berlanga and Oscar De La Hoya. All right. Let's see. Hey, for you look, Mamarishi. Oh man. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Frank Warren in the middle there going what in the name of God is happening? Such a noble sport I like to imagine him, you know out shopping for these women's undergarments for this for this bit getting all the ones

No, Lacey pink ones. I want the lady pops They need to know what it is from the back row. And there's dollars floating now. Poor Oscar man. Never living that one down. Jordan's just told me that there's no such thing as a Puerto Rican passport. Was that for on air consumption Jordan? I'm sorry.

Okay. You're my stripper. Well that's all we need to see it at. That's all we need to see. Was that for on air consumption, Jordan? I'm sorry. Okay. You're my stripper. Well, that's all we need to see it. That's all we need to see. I can't even hear me and Oscar. I don't even know what he's saying back there. I think he's just trying to shout over whatever Berlanga saying like, Hey, stop talking about that. Well, look, you know, those were the pills I was on. I, you know, what is it?

Look, I'll tell you what, we're very lucky though, because MMA appeared short, you know, yes, we wouldn't get any of these guys coming up in MMA. And luckily enough, uh, we had Dane on the full sand podcast, keeping it real, you know, keeping it very real about potential fights happening on the White House. That's how classy.

Yeah. Yes. Let's how classy. Yeah. Yes. Let's have a go with that there on there. Wow. I don't know if he was serious. Is he not retired anymore? Is he back to- You jumped back in the pool.

So- Oh, it's a John Jones one. How sick is that for you though? Now you kind of got this White House event for that. Cause he had more teeth than normal people. Like, no matter who popped up or who didn't or whatever, we would have put on an incredible card. What would be the dream main event?

The dream main event right now would be Aspenall versus Jones. Is it possible that McGregor and Jones would fight on the same card? I got them all devilish. Could you foresee it? Yeah. I didn't ask that.

I didn't get the ask about this boy. I was thinking this is exciting. Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. This is really exciting. And now that we're gonna go right back into these hypotheticals. We just finally got- You don't think Tom Aspinal and John Jones are gonna fight on the lawn of the White House? That would be a really sad, uh, 250th celebration, wouldn't it? Red Coat against US? Come on, this is perfect. If you want to see a red coat, I got to walk out there with a belt, you know?

Ha ha ha! It's amazing that we're somehow back to talking about Tom Aschle and John Jones again. After it felt like a countdown to just let us down. John's, it feels better to be the hunter again, you know, rather than the hunted. I believe we had some tweets as well. We have these amazing lines from John Jones.

Feels nice to be a hunter and not the hunted for once. Just re-enter the testing pool. That lasted for about two weeks. We keep everyone's options open. Fighting at the White House, question mark eyeballs. Donald, make his announcement. Donald, sorry, Donald made his announcement on the morning of the fourth of July.

I'll just leave it at that. I called the UFC headquarters that very same. See, man, I said that he was going to have to like, the biggest problem with him retiring ever It tickles. is the attention. It tickles his pickle. It's not even like it's the attention, right?

Like once the attention is no longer on him, how is he going to handle that? And I don't want to see all that stuff, man. Which part of it? There's so many letters. The White House, Tom. I don't want to go through that stuff, man. Which part of it? There's so many letters. The white house. Tom, I don't want to go through it anymore. Do you remember the matter that Jones business right now, we're still doing a

weekly segment. We did a weekly segment on John Jones since November and here he is again, crawling back into our, into our show. Fantastic, John. I do appreciate you for that, but guess what, mate? All right. There's no, you thought, you thought that Ilya Dupour in Islam, Makasjeff wasn't going to happen, right? Yeah. That's what I was told. Well, quiet down and listen to what he had to say to the NELC boys again.

Another massive fight would be Ilia versus Islam too. Of course. But I mean, Salim is obsessed with that fight. He's obsessed with it. And I tell him, I'm like, but they both got to win more fights in their division first, right? That's kind of how you do it, right? When it's like they both run through their division and then it's like, you're in the position where it's like, I got to make this. That's what happened with Volk Islam, right? Well, the other thing is too, is that Islam moves up and obviously if Islam won the title, you know, you immediately have a super fight with him. You feel like that notebook, pull a zipper down his-

Could that be, I don't know if he gets one victory. You have to see, it's one thing to sit around. It's what the media always tries to do. We sit around and talk about these fights. Sitting around talking about the Before they happen or you know. That's what you're doing right now. You're typing, you're talking shit.

I don't like that. Podcasts watching a podcast. These are options that we have if things play out that way. But you know. This is what the media guy's always trying to do at talking about the sport. What like, what?

I'm glad you didn't show Gavin any of this. It's like, I didn't read the article, but that sounded very interesting about the dying breed. And if you watch this stuff, you get exactly what he's talking about. You know, it's crazy. It's good fun though. We look, I hope Celine gets it though. At some point, I hope he gets it. That's the one he wants.

And that's the one that Dana will put together. You watch. Do you know what I was told today, Chuck? And I actually, it went right over my head and I know we both attended this event. It is the 10 year anniversary of UFC one, I know you possibly one of the greatest mixed martial arts events ever.

This was Sinead O'Connor. And this was, yep, this was absolutely insane. Lawler, McDonald, one of the greatest fights of all time. And then like the, basically the coronation moment of Connor McGregor, one of the massive, massive moments in his career. Obviously this is just before the Aldo fight was supposed to fight. All of that night, Mendez stepped in on short notice. So good.

And it was circumstances. That was the high point. Well, maybe the Aldo fight, right? But this was among the high points because it was the zero hesitation to face a guy that we all thought would be the exact worst, you know, matchup for him. To go against the guy who was gonna try to wrestle him.

And for him to just say like, yeah, let's go, let's do it. And to survive, survive, you know, the initial round where it looks like, oh man, here we go. Mendes is going to wrestle him and to win that fight. I can just remember thinking there was a lot at stake. And I mean for everybody, because it was like for the advancement in this, the boom period of MMA

at where it was at, there was like this, you wanted the magic ride to continue. And he delivered that in the biggest way that night. Yeah. And I was, that was obviously the camp where I was embedded with them. Yeah. Yeah. And I was, that was obviously the camp where I was embedded with them. Yeah. I was writing that book and his knee was gone, dude. Like three times I was staying with him in May.

He was staying in Henderson. So probably 20 minutes from, from the strip. Like, and, uh, on three occasions while I was there, I'd get a phone call off our time, our own ruddy, and they'd be like, we're all going home. We just can't keep working on this. And we'd all pack our stuff and then it'd be like, no, he's going to keep going. And he was in, the physical pain he was in during that camp was absolutely outrageous. What he was doing then, it's actually understated how brilliant I was as a fighter.

Like, like obviously his legacy, you know, we've talked about ad nauseam, what it's gone on to be that the stuff outside the cage is now as pertinent as any of this stuff. But, uh, it's a crazy juxtaposition when you're talking about your two national icons, Katie Taylor, we were talking about, you know, from the Rio Olympics and you're like, Oh, she

might be done to what she's been accomplished in maybe 10 years time, right? Like something like that. Connor McGregor, where he was at, at that point, when we think he's going to the moon, you know, like he's that what he's what's happened to him over the last 10 years. Yeah.

It is, it's very different trajectories, but it's, uh, yeah, it's crazy. We actually, uh, we had a few, a bit of a public appearance from Conor McGregor. Yeah. Oh yeah. Is he back in the public? Yeah, he's doing a bit of media. Can we have a look at Conor?

I do like to tell I'm in this as owner until I can clear my slate. It's looking like I'm headed to the Oval Office. It's looking healthy. So that's my, that's my, yeah, that's where I'm headed to the oval office. He's looking healthy. Yeah. So that's my, that's my yeah. That's where I'm heading next. But I let these men, these men fight for this one and I'll support them and back them all the way. Anytime Yul Romero is the, in a two shot like that is the least crazy.

You know you're looking at something. That's Andy's friend you're talking about. That's literally my bestie. Well, no offense, but he is crazy. That wasn't the only, that wasn't really That's Andy's friend you're talking about. Wow. Wow. No offense, but he is crazy. That wasn't the only, that wasn't the clip I was thinking about. Uh-oh. Which one?

Mike Perry. You're welcome back because I welcomed you back. October 11th is your date and you'll dance for me. You'll dance for the owner and then we can talk. But your date is October 11th, Michael Perry, the return of platinum platinum and we've got some hell of an announcement for an opponent for you one of the baddest men So ever greats open fighting time is here We're going to bear knuckle and he's gonna tell down with you in front of me for my viewing pleasure And then I'll decide if you're worthy

Belvin's like I wonder how much I have my account right now is he gonna bite him? Oh, man. Still on top of the game, huh? Yeah. I think it was, it was, uh, our boy GC was talking about, uh, if you look at sound bites from 10 years ago, you're like, man, what a master. And now you're watching these. I don't even know what that was. I don't know. I can't look away though for some reason. We'll see it to its most tragic conclusion. Yeah well look a wild week we're back talking about Tom Asimov and John Jones yeah Ilya and Islam we have Connor at the BKFC a Magic Magic a few days. I like how Dana though like brings those up as if we haven't been contemplating. He just so checked out that he doesn't know what's going on around him.

I don't. I just think he shows up on them podcasts and just steer me into something. And your man says, wouldn't that be great? And then he goes, yeah, no, that'd be great. It's gonna be fucking great, right? Like, of course it is. Chuck, I know that you obviously spent some time working with Ben Askren.

You wrote his book, you ghost wrote his book. And I know you've been putting out recently again, and you're gonna donate all the proceeds to his family as they, and there's the book. We have it up on screen now. Oh, look at that. Chuck's tweet. This is an incredible person whose fighting spirit

is never in doubt. I had the privilege of helping Ben write his book and his story's even on screen now. Oh, look at that. Chuck's tweet, this is an incredible person whose fighting spirit is never in doubt. I had the privilege of helping Ben write his book and his story's even more remarkable now. Any proceeds on my end will go directly to Ben and his family and there it is funky, my defiant path through the wild world of combat sports. And fair play, Chuck. That's a very nice gesture by you, man.

I mean, I was talking to Ariel about this too, because he was going to, I think they're donating that That blackjack tip that's all yeah that everybody signed which I thought was really cool And I'd been in touch with the publisher and I was like, you know, what can we do? You know because you feel helpless through these situations. This is a guy I spent you know several days with with his him and his family and Went through his entire story. This is when he was coming He had his hip surgery so he wasn't able to get around and just to kind of see that video that he put

out. And I'd been in touch with him a little bit. And I knew, like, I had, I had texted him early and I saw that, you know, he'd sent like some prayer hands back and I was like, okay, he's at least looking at his phone and what I saw, he retweeted that. I think he's on the, you know, he's on the mend. It's a beautiful thing that he's coming back, but to see that video was very difficult for me, man. Just knowing, knowing him and his family, you know, a

little bit better and just to see that. So anything we can do for Ben, man, I mean, I'll happily give, by the book, it's definitely worth it. His story is 100% extraordinary, even without what's been going on now. But you add into it his fighting spirit now and I think you'll appreciate the way he believes

and the way he came up and all the things he achieved even more, just seeing who he is now. George just told me that he's pinned the link to the book at the top of the live chat. If you want to help, please go and get the book. Chuck Mendenhall is one of the greatest writers of all time in combat sports. And obviously Ben's story is absolutely incredible.

And look, you're right. When you see Ben, and he's obviously dropped an incredible amount of weight, and it's a striking image, but it's also so admirable how strong he is. And going through this fight so publicly and being like, look, I died four times after losing all this weight, but I'm still here. Nonshulently. He's an incredible, incredible. He came on, one of the greatest things he did,

was it was after, I think it was the Mosfetall. This is the pivot point of his career. And it becomes a meme. People mercilessly tease him about it. And they still do, even now, they still do. And him to go on aerial show I think the Monday after I think it was and just you know handle it like that you should be any athlete should watch him and study him because he

he had the right mindset you know on how to handle losses out hand of victories that book really delves into that but anyway like I just have a ton of respect for him that's why I did people have just have a ton of respect for him. That's why I do it. People have asked me a lot of times, just like you've probably been approached to write books for people in your eyes. Like, nah, no, no. I always say no, but for some reason it was during the pandemic or right around the time when Ben asked, I was like, let's do this, man. Yeah. And look, it's, it's a guy that's, it's a, he certainly has experienced overcoming

odds and he's going to fight as much as he can he's obviously an Absolute savage like that that is all like a thing about when I was like this guy is so fucking strong even though he's in this vulnerable position He's gonna phrase the whole way. Yeah, it's in crazy and You have a you you spoke. I don't know if the article is out yet, but it should be up today I think Stephen wonder boy Thompson is fighting Gabriel Bonfrey this weekend on the calm main event. The lads did a great breakdown of this card yesterday. It is not quite an apex card.

It's a, it's a step up from one. I think, I think GC said one step up from an apex card. It is the Nashville card and it is headlined by Derek Lewis and Taliesin DeShera you're talking to Steven Thompson, who you told me today, 42 years of age, taking on a young whippersnapper relative. Yeah, they're trying to kill them off. Let's call it what it is. Like when they make these kinds of fights, you're like, all right, we need to get this guy over. But I think Steve, the wonder boy,

Tom is great. Like he kind of, I talked to him, he's the oldest fighter in the UFC now, active fighter, 42 years old. He's like a couple of weeks older than Jan Bovovich, I think. So he's now, which is crazy, right? Because his name is Wonder Boy and we think of him in this very boyish way, like I guess. But you know, it's always, I like talking to guys that are in those positions, and you're like, well, what is it? What are you trying to do now? What is it about for you?

You know, that sort of thing. So check it out. I thought his answers were, you know, very insightful for a guy his age. He's kind of soaking it all in, I think, at this point. Well, yeah, it's going to be a tough one for him. I'm looking forward to seeing that fight, of course. Yeah, I've hit everything, right Jordan? I've nailed this today. Is that fair to say?

Or just knock this out of the park? There it is. I knew it. It gets me every time that happens. Usually Usually though he waits until you're like halfway through your outro and the outros are like 20 minutes. So. Today Andy was like let me just do it. I don't care what he's saying. I might do it in the middle of this Katie Taylor talk. Talk about the BKFC tournament announcement. Thanks. Get GC appears, he's back there, he's been filled in on all this. What were the announcements?

Yeah, what is it, open weight tournament, $15 million to the winner, one million to the second place, I think even down to last place gets 100K, but it doesn't start till March of 2026, so we still gotta fill out the bracket, everything like that, but I mean, 15 million to the winner, that fight's to be crazy.

Like you're watching a bare knuckle boxing match for $15 million on the line. Fair play to them. Wow. Fair play to them. Fair play to them. That's exactly right. Fair play to them.

We also, we also did get a, uh, Mike Perry's going to be fighting this, this fall. I believe for the middleweight, the BKFC middleweight title, put the belt around them. This is it. Look, a BKFC correspondent. Not a big pop belt around them. This is it. Look at our BKFC. Not a big pop here. I actually should have, I was wearing my hat

last night, walking around my, my locale. I got a, I got a BKFC hat. I got a, I was at the Wells Fargo. I got a BKFC duffel as well. I brought it to Vegas. I was walking through the airport with it and a guy came up to me and he was like, you fight for them.

I was like, you knuckle up bro. He said, I don't know. That is what he said them. I was like, you knuckle up, bro. I just want to do the translation for the audience. Yeah. He was like, you knuckle up, bro. I was like, no, no, no, I actually just covered it. I am a, I am a wimp.

I know I look like an athlete. I am a bit. Don't be fooled. Speaking of BKFC fighters is the reason that Ben's not here is that he's actually training for ice wars. Oh, man Well, I mean it's gonna be hard to know limbs. He's gonna be a little pissed off that we We made that public

Just don't want to get emotional as It just breaks your heart man, so beautiful Got a new haircut by the way, yeah, I mean like like that's, that's when he was still, uh, I guess playoff Ben. I don't know what was going on. He could be a hair model that man. He could. He's gorgeous hair. And he's getting better looking with age.

You know what I mean? It makes me piss me off. But, uh, yeah, obviously, and we have to make our pick before we go. Oh man. And nobody's going to care what I pick. Well, we, we're on, we know what we're picking. We've, we've said it many times. I didn't going to care what I pick. Well, we really got to say we're on. We know what we're picking. We've said it.

I didn't hear it. Oh, could you hazard a guess by chance? You're picking in the Katie Taylor point in a month. Toronto. Round two. That would be the most shocking, honestly, if somebody gets knocked out. That'd be crazy. I feel like that's not happening.

Who are you picking joke for Christ sake? I'm going Serrano, but I think it's, you know, a wise man, Douglas Crosby once told me, you skate to where the puck is going. You don't skate to where the puck is, you skate to where it's going. And I felt like these two fights have pointed towards Serrano winning this fight. And the ice hockey reference again. Yeah. This is, this is. An ice hockey reference again. Yeah. This is, this is.

It's all ice hockey. It is. Like it's all pro wrestling, it's all ice hockey. I don't know if you saw, by the way, yesterday on the boys in the back, I gave out everyone a gift because, you know, I wanted to get people here from, you know, something to say, I love yous.

And you know, all of you guys, you know I love yous, don't you? I've proven that now over the last few days. Yes. I mean, I'm breaking my ass here to try and show yous I love you. You know what I mean? I love yous. Okay.

All of you. Eh, a little louder for the people in the back. But Chuck, I did not want to leave you out of said situation. Oh, what happened here? What's all this? I was in touch with your fantastic wife, Rebecca, and I tried to figure out what size that beautiful head of yours is because we have a flat cap all the way from Hannah Hatton's Dunnegal. What?

How'd you smuggle this in? I rode over here with you. Are you carrying this? We brought it in yesterday and GC, you covered up. You brought it in earlier, didn't you, GC? You did a little smuggling. I'm not going to lie. I snuck it in and Chuck

Looked directly at it. I did One thing you guys realize if you see me in here a lot as I am very unobservant No, we're wearing my tag on the back of my shirt earlier they Lane wrapped up for you. That is obviously not my skill, but oh Of course, okay, I don't know if it's going to be difficult. Let's hope not. If it is. Do we have any, uh, rapping, uh, music, uh, to

maybe just get them through this? Oh, super. Another super chat. All right. Yes. Let's go to that. Loved you in studio Pete C vibes. We're immaculate.

Pete C. Oh yeah. That's how I spell it. Uh, thank you, Brian M for the 199 mate. This is it here. Let's go. Let's hope this is the color palette we're looking for. yeah, that's how I spell it. Thank you Brian M for the 199 mate. This is it here. Let's go. Let's hope this is the color palette we're looking for. Oh, that's it.

That's the music you want when you're opening an L. Hannah Hat from Donegal. Oh, they got this all taped up here. Hold on. You have some scissors or something? Use this pencil. Oh, here we go. Grab it open. There you go, there you go.

It's got two erasers. Oh, this is, is this? Oh, he has many. This is a V Pencil. Like that gets waved around. There's 85 on the peners. Oh, this is bit is this oh, yes, this is a V pencil there's like big it's waved around All right Hope he doesn't get mad We'll get mad Ariel. Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to see I'm actually looking forward to seeing with this Bible I'm posting you haven't seen it yet. Pt. No haven't opened the box. Oh

Get rid of that invoice throw it out away. Don't way, Joe. Don't look at that. Jesus. Would you look at that? So this is an Irish company? That is Dunigol Tweed. A Dunigol Tweed with Salt Flex going through it. You want to see? You don't have to do it. I don't want to whatever you want, but of course I would. Alright guys, look at my dome here. Oh... What do you think? Oh, look at that! Oh my god!

Oh yeah baby! Rebecca, you got the hat size correctly! Amazing! We had to send her a list of the sizes, and she came back to me with like, I think it's this one. Legend, Rebecca, thank you so much. I love it man, thank you. Appreciate it. Well, look guys, it's been a beautiful time here. I've had a great time working with all the beautiful people at the Ari O'Lowany Show. All the fantastic people at Yahoo Sports. They've treated me like a brother and a great

friend and they are all my great friends and I've had a fantastic time here today. Thank you Andy. Thank you Jordan. Thank you Frank, thank you Connor, thank you Rick, thank you Henry who's in here with us now, Chuck Mendenhall, thank you so much. Thank you Friarly, thank you Dario Lovati, he's gonna be in the ring tonight talking to all those fantastic fighters, he did a great job at the weigh-in yesterday. I think we gotta make this a regular thing. Lads, I love yous very much. Enjoy all the fights. I've enjoyed being here immensely and there's my music again.

So of course I am talking to you much once again. I love yous very much. Have a fantastic weekend. Mwah! Mwah!