The Ariel Helwani Show - Lou DiBella

Episode Date: June 16, 2022

The legendary American boxing promoter joins the show for a wide-ranging conversation about his Hall of Fame career and business ventures, discussing things like: Getting inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame this past weekend (4:20)  The recent run of great fights in boxing (10:21) His issues with fellow promoter Eddie Hearn (21:47) The first time he met Muhammad Ali (44:28) What he feels are his lasting contributions to the sport (1:01:25) Plus, he talks about women's boxing, his unlikely journey to HBO Sports, what it's like owning two minor league baseball teams, and much more.We are presented by NordVPN.  Grab the NordVPN deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/ariel Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!For more on Lou and the latest in boxing, you can visit dbe1.com.If you want to support our show, simply give "The Ariel Helwani Show" a 5-star rating on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. 

Hey everyone, I hope you're doing well. It is Thursday, June 16th, 2022. Welcome back to a brand new edition of the Ariel Helwani Show. I, of course, am Ariel Helwani. Thank you so much to my good friends, the Lovely Feathers, for this great theme song. It is entitled Frantic. I love them very much and I appreciate them being a part of our little engine that could. And you can say the same about today's guest, a little engine that could, because in the world of boxing, there are a lot of big-time players, a lot of big-time players with big-time contracts, with big-time fighters and big-time networks.

And Lou DiBella, who's a very brash, outspoken, kind of shoot-from-the-hip, wears his emotion and his heart on his sleeve, New Yorker, has done things a little differently over the course of his Hall of Fame career. And yes, I stress the term Hall of Fame because just this past weekend, he was inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame among some giants of the game, Andre Ward and Floyd Mayweather, Bernard Hopkins, our old pal Holly Holm as well. A tremendous honor for Lou DiBella and an honor that, in my opinion, long overdue and well-deserved. He's a great character. Even if you aren't a fan of boxing, I think you will really appreciate this conversation

and this character because he is just that, a character. He's captivating when he speaks. He's very smart when he talks about the business of sports. And he's not just involved in the world of boxing. He's actually also involved in the world of baseball as well. He owns two AA franchises. Pretty damn cool. He's a big baseball fan. But of course, he's well known for his work in the world of boxing. Worked at HBO Sports for 11 years. Now runs his own company since 2000, DiBella Entertainment. He has promoted some of the biggest names in the history of the sport and just promoted one of the biggest fights of the year. That was the George Kambosis versus Devin Haney fight over in Melbourne, Australia. So a lot to talk to him about from the state of boxing to his induction to some of the

other promoters that he is a fan or maybe not such a big fan of, to his great career, to how he got into boxing, how he fell in love with the sport, to his love of baseball and so much more. We also talk a little MMA as well. So stay tuned for all of that. It's a great conversation. I think you'll really like it. Before we get to that conversation, though, I do want to thank once again our good friends

over at NordVPN for their support. We love NordVPN and I love them. And I use them regularly and I'm about to use them because I'm heading to Canada next week. Oh boy, do I love NordVPN. And oh boy, do they save me. And I assume if you are a fan of theirs as well, they save you when you are overseas.

Because if you love your streaming services, if you love watching your fights on DAZN, on Showtime, on ESPN+, on all these different networks, these OTT platforms, as they say, once you leave the US, you can't watch these fights. You can't use these services. But when you have NordVPN with a click of a button, it's like you're back home in the US and you're able to watch everything legally. And it's just so darn easy. With NordVPN, you can connect to a faraway location and still freely explore the internet. And because of NordVPN's fast streaming speeds, you can watch your favorite events without any kind of interruption. And guess what? You can use NordVPN on up to six devices, even on your smart TV. And best of all, NordVPN lets you use the top

streaming platforms at a lower price. What's better than that? So I want you to do this. Grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to nordvpn.com slash Ariel to get a huge discount off your NordVPN plan, plus free threat protection, plus one additional month for free. It's completely risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. Again, that's nordvpn.com slash Ariel. Please support them because they support us. Now time for my conversation with the inimitable, the incomparable Lou DeBell. Enjoy. You know, from afar, I was actually a little bit jealous jealous there was a part of me that was like you know what i wish i went to this uh this weekend because as you alluded to it was 2020 2021 2022

all brought together i said i feel like you know in the history of hall of fames this might rival the 1936 initial class that went into the baseball hall of fame as the greatest hall of fame weekend of all time now obviously it's three in one because of the pandemic but to see all those names all those figures come together in a sport that at time is you know fragmented could you maybe elaborate a little bit more on the vibe it seemed like everyone was happy to be there there were no beats what was i gotta tell you man like i'm still in a high over it was first of all every week you know they had us running around like crazy they really are buttoned up i mean it's canastota new york is a little town and it comes alive for this and it really they suffered deeply not having this induction a couple years in a row but they

made up for it man the whole like i was in a we were in a parade yesterday. I'm a couple of cars behind Mayweather. We were in a parade where I don't know how tens of thousands of boxing fans everywhere chanting our names, knowing everyone. And the embracing from this whole upstate New York community of all of us. You felt like you were in a cradle of boxing. And it was a remarkable time. And the camaraderie was the thing i'll remember most you know hanging out with all these reminiscing with guys i grew up in boxing i mean i remember i started in my 20s in the late 80s at hbo so the period of the 90s that that saw

mayweather come out into the pros but also was the time of Roy Jones, the time of James Toney, you know, these, Juan Manuel Marquez, Cotto, these were all guys I worked with over the years. And, and, and the women that were there were there also, I mean, these were trailblazers, Leila Ali and, and, and Christy Martin. And, you know, it was a tremendous sort of spirit. And, you know, there's a lot of darkness in boxing. I comment on it too often. I'm not going to comment on it on this phone call because it was nice to see a celebration of a sport that's existed since people were riding on cave walls that still on its best night can rival or exceed any other sport in terms of worldwide attention.

So, you know, it was a great experience for me. Man, it's nice to smell roses when you're still walking this earth, you know, and it's nice to hear people, you know, I felt like I said this in my speech, not in my Hall of Fame acceptance speech, but in the speech at the dinner over there. It's like it was a weird experience i think for all of us it was like listening to your eulogy and you're still alive you know and and um and i think every single person there every single one of the fighters man woman every one of the non-participants that was being honored they got that same

sort of humbling sense of, of hearing appreciation, um, takes a lot of effort and work. I mean, any combat sports are not easy, man. Like for the fighters, fighters are a different breed in combat sports,

but frankly, so are the people that work in them because comedy, I mean, there's more complications. There's more, we're the purest form of sport, you know, two men or two women getting in there and fighting. And, and, um,

and there's a, there's an element of degenerate gambling for everyone involved almost because a career can, can change in a snap. Um, and the fortunes of promoters and managers and trainers can change with that same snap. And it's not the easiest way to earn a living, but it's rewarding and it's an adrenaline rush. It's been 33 years of adrenaline rush. And the last five or six days have been really among the most rewarding and most humbling of my life. I don't want this to turn into like a boxing versus MMA thing, but I will

say this. One of the things that boxing does infinitely better than MMA, in my opinion, is honor its heroes, its legends. And this is why I strongly believe, based on everything you're saying right here, why there needs to be an MMA Hall of Fame. There isn't one. One does not exist. No, there needs to be an MMA Hall of Fame and there needs to be. And frankly, with the audience MMA has and the marketing machine that UFC has, there's an opportunity to look at what the WWE has done with a little Hall of Fame, right? Or that Hall of Fame induction as an event every year that wrestling fans pay attention to. I mean, you know, look, wrestling has a much longer history than MMA,

and boxing has a much longer history than all of them. So it's no accident that we, I mean, I think maybe we're better at honoring our past because our past is, I don't know, you can go back to the beginning of time. Whereas UFC, MMA is a little bit more of a modern product. But I think the time has come now to start honoring the heroes of MMA and the trailblazers of MMA. I mean, there were a lot of guys that made their bones before there was an omnipotent

UFC and a fan base like you have today. So I tend to agree with you. I think that I expect to see, by the way, the emergence of one. It's too good of a marketing opportunity um for people to continue to pass on it so i think you will see uh ufc on and mma honor their their significant past players i would love to see that to be clear the ufc has their own but that to me is like the knicks you know honoring someone in the rafters there needs to be an independent like there is an independent boxing needs to be an independent, like there was an independent boxing, there needs to be an independent MMA Hall of Fame

where people are honored regardless of their relationship with the promoter, right? I mean, there's a difference between the DiBella Entertainment Hall of Fame or Top Rank Hall of Fame and the Boxing Hall of Fame in Canistota. But I think you would agree with me on that as well. I feel right now, and I'd love to get your take on this because you were just in Australia for a massive fight and we'll talk about George Kambosis and Devin Haney. I got to be honest with you, Lou. I'm more into boxing right now than I am MMA, and I'm the MMA guy. I feel like boxing is on fire.

I feel like every weekend there is a big fight on some network, some platform, and I know it can be splintered. But right now, I feel like boxing is more interesting than it has been in quite some time. Do you share that sentiment? We're on a run. Absolutely. But I don't want to, I don't want to beat that drum too loud because I want to, I think this run should be sort of a lesson to us and a beginning of a momentum that continues for a number of years, as opposed to the fact we're just a little bit hot in a period where maybe some other people are a little bit less hot. You know, I think we still have a long way to go. I still think that there are, for all the, I mean, look, it's a fucking disgrace that we're not announcing Crawford and Spence already. And that that fight is not set.

And it's a disgrace. I mean, again, I don't want to beat a negative, you know, drum at the moment. But I hate these exclusive promoters because the quality of the product. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we've had some great, great product in recent months and I think we're on a good roll, right? But we've also had a lot of shit and there's no excuse for the shit. Combat sports need to have outcomes that are in doubt and the best have to fight the best. And all of the fighters in any combat sport have a very limited shelf. And the best should be fighting the best with consistency and regularity,

not just on a little sort of like nice little kind of run. You know, I think some good things are happening. I mean, you know, AJ's going to fight Usyk. That's a good fight. You know, there are some more good fights on the horizon. I'd like to see less impediments to the big fights happening. Look, when I was at HBO in the late 80s, 90s, the big fights happened every month, every month, like literally.

And that's where we need to be because, you know, guys, and also I want to see some changes, by the way, in boxing in particular, with fighters wanting to smoke more than they wanted. I mean, there are guys that have insisted on making things happen. Devin Haney insisted on that opportunity. George Kambosis, as bad of a night as he had in Australia, insisted on a big fight. He wasn't going to fight a keep-busy fight. So he went from Teofimo Lopez to a contract with Loma.

And then when Loma had to go defend his country, it became Devin Haney. And we need to see that kind of fighting spirit from the fighters and their managers. Also a recognition of the following. George insisted on a big fight, but he got paid. And Devin is now undisputed champion with tremendous amount of

market value that he didn't have before he went to Australia. The biggest and best fights make the biggest and best stars. The biggest and best fights make the biggest money. So everybody should be pushing for that. And a fighter shouldn't be happy or accepting of a non-challenge just because he can make some decent money. Go for the gusto because, frankly, that's also where you're going to get the generational money that you apparently seek if you're in a combat sport because, believe me, as we already said, it's not an easy way to earn a living. So I don't want to get complacent because we're in a good run. I think we need to continue it.

I also think we need to have, we need to improve our regular product. The regular product, the product that goes out on DAZN and these other platforms with regularity has to be more consistent. I'm tired. I won't watch a fight where I know,

I know any long done watching a fight where I know what the outcome is. And there are exceptions. There are fights where a guy's so good, he's fighting someone else who's perfectly appropriate, but I may think I know the winner. Okay, I'll watch that because I want to see the guy that's so good and you're doing as well as you can in the matchmaking. But watching like schnooks get in the ring with world-class guys, I'm done with that.

Fuck that. I'll watch a basketball game or I'll watch a UFC fight before I'll watch a boxing match where i know what's going to happen unequivocally is there is there not a movement though like with you know cambosis loma then haney uh taylor serrano crawford spence aj usic aj maybe fighting you know if you're corporate spence isn't made corporate spence isn't made still and and the interesting thing about Crawford Spence not being made, I sat with Bud Crawford and hung out with him on a bus ride and talked to him about it. And he said, don't believe the bullshit. Nothing's done. No offer's been made to me that I accepted.

And nothing's done. There's no date. There's no fight made. So I don't think he was lying to me. And one of the things we both discussed is that he wants it badly and that Spence wants it badly. I think they both want it, but it's not done. And by the way, it's easier to make now that it's been in years because Bud's a free agent. It was harder to make when Bud was attached to ESPN and Spence was attached to PBC and out. But now that Crawford is a free agent, it should be much easier to make so can i ask is

you know we just have a way we over we over think you know we over negotiate things we over we let things over ruminate and and when the fights are the hottest they don't happen and that's got to change like there's no excuse for spence crawford not to happen in 2022. It must happen in 2022. Is there a case to be made that the fighters in today's generation, the younger fighters, you know, the Crawfords, the Spences, the Tank Davises, et cetera, they want the smoke, but it's actually, from my perspective, I'd love to get your take on this, it's actually the promoters who are, you know uh golden boy won't do business with al hayman uh you know uh leonard ellerby and eddie hearn hate each other like are the promoters the ones who

are the biggest impediment now to the big fights being made no the television a lot of fighting between the streaming services are the television networks are and the promoters frankly who have the big big deals they're allowed to be the most complacent and laziest. And they can sit there and give you inferior product or tell you a guy's a star because they're running the guy out regularly in fights where he's dominating. And they'll sit there and tell you somebody who's a star is a star when they're really not. And if you match them against the top guys, they wouldn't perform. I think it's what's the impediment's not the promoter it's that contract the promoter has that says espn's not buying a fight from anybody else but bob hour and and showtime for the most part is an exception i did a little show the other night

the let's face realities on the biggest levels it's al hammond and pbc and that's the case for fox tv also um eddie's got his thing with the zone honestly there's a reason you and PBC, and that's the case for Fox TV also. Eddie's got his thing with DAZN. Honestly, there's a reason you said LRB and whatever. It's everyone with Eddie a little bit because Eddie's not a great winner, and he's not a very easy person to do business with. He understands the, in effect, sort of monopoly. It's not a monopoly, but the situation he has where if you want on to the dissolved platform,

it flows through him. And he takes every advantage of it and he's a bit of a bully and not so easy to work with if you're on the other side of a street or not in his corporate sphere. So, you know, I mean, Eddie spent an entire week,

he's had other fights going on shitting all over worrying about Devin Haney well sorry if you had you made if you went to zone put up the right situation Devin Haney would have stayed there Devin Haney went to the better opportunity Devin Haney didn't do a deal with me and Aaron because it was a worse deal

for him and now he's sitting there as undisputed champion but how many I don't sit there and talk about golden. But I don't sit there and talk about Golden Boy's business. I don't sit there and talk about Eddie's business or Arum's business. I worry about my business and the fighters I'm working with. I worry about the sport in a more global sense. I don't blame the promoters, but the situation that, look, if boxing was perceived by the streaming services and networks as must-see

powerhouse programming, they wouldn't be doing exclusive deals with anybody. Part of the reason they're doing exclusive deals is, I don't have to let Aaron worry about it. I put the stuff up and it performs to a certain level. We're content with that because in the sphere of sport, we're paying a fraction for boxing of what we're paying for major team sports. And the system of exclusivity needs to change. If ESPN had somebody there like I was at HBO in the 90s, and that was the case across the board where there were no exclusive deals

or exclusive promotional entities. We were trying to make the biggest and best fights. And there were competing networks trying to make the biggest and best fights. You would have a great program. And lately, I think we're on a good stretch, right? Even with that exclusivity. But it's still not easy. You never heard in the 80s or 90s or early 2000s about different sides of the street. You didn't. You never heard a fighter hiding behind his side. No, you never heard that.

And you never heard fans mention who's with what promoter. And by the way, fans should, who gives a shit who's with what promoter. And by the way, fans should, who gives a shit who's promoting a fight? You want to see the best fight. If the best fight, if I'm an MMA fan and the best fight's UFC, I'm going to watch that. If there's a tremendous fight on PFL, I'm going

to watch that. If there's, okay, I don't even get this whole shit with promoters going out there tooting their own fucking horns like they're celebrities. I get that 80s is a celebrity. Good, man. Go do your as many as you want in the UK. But guess what?

Fight fans in America, what the fuck? We want to see a great fight. That's what people want to see. Whether you're promoting it or I'm promoting it or Aaron's promoting it or anybody else is promoting it, it's about the fighters. The fighters are the sport. The fighters are MMA. The fighters are boxing. That's about the fighters. The fighters are the sport. The fighters are MMA. The fighters are boxing. That's where the fucking focus should be, not on promoters.

An exclusivity between a network and a promoter is horseshit. All it does is make it more difficult to make the biggest and best fights. Are there any promoters that you won't work with or who won't work with you? No. Well, I don't think there's anyone who won't work with me, honestly. I don't think, honestly, there's no one I won't work with. Eddie and I are not in a good place right now, but I mean, I'm not a kid. Can we work together? We've worked together hundreds of times. I can work with anybody. And honestly, Ariel, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have survived. I haven't had a,

I haven't had an exclusive platform for five or six years. I've had between 50 and 60 fighters that entire time. And my company is okay, but it's because I can do business with everybody. But you think I want to turn my product over to other people if I don't have to, or partner with people time and time again, because I can't turn my product over to the platform. That's not how I would rather operate, but I could work with anybody, but I'll tell you something. It would be, the sport would be a lot better if everybody could work with everybody.

And it was much more like that 25 years ago. It really was. And any promoter out there that's had the longevity I've had, I've had it as a lot of them that are older than I am. They'll tell you that I'm right. It was like, it was much more cooperative and collegial 25 years ago, 20 years ago. Could I ask,

why are you and Eddie not in a good spot right now? It's very different people, man. Like, we're just like, you know, part of it is just, I don't think, a little bit like oil and water. Honestly, we're just

very different people. And a lot of it is like, I'm not, you know, I... It's easy to be like a good guy when you're sort of struggling and you need friends. And it's harder to be a good guy when you're spending other people's money and sitting on the top of a sort of an ivory tower and earning. I mean, look, this guy has the benefit of making crazy amounts of money while his partner streaming services lost billions in recent years. And he still has the kind of deal that allows him to thrive. Even if the partner he has isn't so much thriving.

And it's very difficult. Yeah. I'm not saying that it's closed, totally a closed shop at the zone. It's not, I'm not saying that it's mostly a closed shop. And, and Eddie is absolutely the king of the zone box, the face of it, the king of it, you know, it's about his face his brand i mean dude just look at go and look at face-ups of fights and fucking honestly the fighter looks like a little fucking dot on each side and there's any in the middle and you know it's reminiscent to me a little bit of how don king promoted at the top of his game in the 70s, 80s, 90s, early 2000s, where he correctly believed that he was a bigger star than most of his fighters.

And I think if you go to Eddie's persona as an influencer, too, his status as an influencer and his ability to dominate boxing press in the UK. It's very much about him being a bigger star than most of his fighters. To be honest, I thought you were going to say he's very reminiscent of Dana White, especially in his early days, in the middle, present, doing a bunch of, like this feels like the whole thing feels like Dana White. Yeah, but I want to say something that was more of a fairness to Dana. Fairness to Dana. There was more of a reason for Dana to take that position back then.

Do you know what I mean? Like there was a company that needed to be built and a brand needed to be built. And, and, and honestly, the guy, the Fertittas and the people running it back when lost enough fucking money in the beginning while it was, you know, growing and percolating and whatever. I mean, I think Eddie's had these dreams of being Dana, honestly. I think, you know, look, he said them on the record over recent years. He was going to come to America and he was going to blow everyone out of the water.

All the black fighters would have signed with this white billionaire from the UK that, you know, honestly, not the most relatable guy if you're a poor kid from the hood, right? But he was going to come here and he was going to have this giant budget. He was going to blow us the fuck all out of the water. No, nope. Sorry. Didn't work. And nor is Eddie ever going to build a UFC or boxing. Frankly, I don't think boxing is beyond, it's been in too long. We're the wild, wild west. There is no barriers to entry. I don't believe anybody is going to create a UFC or boxing. I don't see one entity completely having the dominant market control that UFC was able to muster. But UFC did that at a time where MMA was down and not particularly accepted, not even legal

in most states. To some extent, they earned their de facto monopoly by investing and taking the chance. I don't disagree with what you said about Dana early on or whatever. I just don't see where Eddie thinks this is getting him. And nor do I see any evidence that he's capable of blowing us all out of the water and becoming the, the quote unquote UFC of boxing. Dana has flirted with boxing,

but then now he says, you know, it's too broken and whatnot. Do you think he could have success in the world of boxing? Given what you know about him? I think that, look, I think that the people, there are a lot of smart people. I've done a lot of stuff with the guys at UFC. I know them pretty well. They're very smart people. And I think they also get the fact that right now, they got to worry about their own mothership. They got to worry about their product. eternal. Boxing's not going anywhere. We've had our issues, but we will never...

People will always fight for other people's entertainment the same way people will always... There'll always be pornography for other people. We're guilty pleasure fighting. Honestly, we all fight. I said this in my oldest fame speech. It's what makes the combat sports so

relatable. They're metaphors for life. Everybody fights. You get knocked on your ass, you've got to get fucking up. You know, you're going to, all of us are going to lose our, you know, we're going to lose family members, we're going to lose friends, we're going to lose money, we're going to lose, we're going to have demons to battle. We all have battles in our

lives. We are only here for a short time. And that is what makes the fight game, and i include time i'm talking about all combat sports including mma that's what makes us different and so relatable right we are an eternal you know sport um i don't know man i i think that uh i've been highly critical of my own sport for a long time. Comes from a place of love, not from a place of hate, because I think that we can be better than we were. We were the sport in the early 20th century. And we've managed sort of to allow ourselves to sort of slip in that pantheon of sports.

But at our best, I don't think there's anybody or anything better. I think our best night is better than your best night. And I would say that to almost every sport. No, I think there best night is better than your best night. And I would say that to almost every sport. No, I think there's a strong case to be made. Could I ask one thing that I've always respected about you is you promoted, you know, women's boxing long before it was cool to do so. Right. And you have been on the front lines and you have taken chances and you were by Amanda Serrano's side for a very long time you weren't for the entire ride up until right a fight or two ago what was it like yeah look it is look it is what it is

look i don't regret championing women's sports at all and and honestly if if one of the little sort of reasons that i i'm a first ballot hall of famer was because I championed women's sports before other people in North America, clearly. I mean, there was no one else doing women's boxing with any regularity. And believe me when I say I'm upside down to this day on women's boxing. I'm grateful if I'm perceived as somebody

that helped that cause. And I really felt that this Hall of Fame weekend where the first three classes ever of women's boxers were inducted into the Hall of Fame. Other women professionals, Kathy Duver, Promota, Marguerite Goodman, ringside physician, were inducted into the Hall of Fame. I met some real trailblazers, people that really preceded the curve in terms of, you know, when Christ you know, Christy Martin, the sacrifices she made for women's boxing and, you know, Layla was a trailblazer, but the women before them that were honored, you know, it was moving to me to see their success and to feel like maybe had a little bit to do with it. Not, and believe me, it's, they did it. Like they're the reason things are

getting better, but people can't take a place because there's still exploitation of women in women's boxing. And I made a deal the same week that Tale of Serrano was going on for a fight involving one of my best female talents that I felt was an exploitative deal. But she had no place else to go. And I went to her and said, I don't love the deal I can make for you right now. But I gave her complete disclosure. Here's everything there. Here's what I gave her complete disclosure. Here's everything there. Here's what you're going to make. Here's what I'm going to make. And I made a deal. But it's still a very difficult world for the female fighter and not an equal

playing field. And they're never going to have equality. And frankly, market conditions and demand and stuff like that, equality may be too much to ask for. However, fairness isn't. And we're not yet at fairness. There is no regular series for female fighters. There are scores of women that can beat existing champions that have no opportunity to get on television. There are scores of tremendous female talents, Olympians,

young women coming out of Golden Gloves programs that can fight their rear ends off that work just as hard as the men that don't have a developmental series to show their skills. And there's nobody from an ESPN to a DAZN to a Fox to a Showtime to any fucking platform out there that's really a champion for women. There's not. But to watch what happened April 30th and not be a part of it as you were so instrumental in building Amanda Serrano in this market and the fight happened in this market, MSG, what was that like for you? Were you even able to watch it? Oh, I watched it. And I wasn't going to miss it.

I didn't go. Did it hurt? Yeah. It hurt. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm 60 years old plus. I run two minor league baseball teams. I've got a production company. I'm still a force in boxing. I got the gold ring of the whole thing, which, believe me, was

really, really gratifying. But I don't give so much for the fuck anymore. I'm going to say what I feel. And yeah, it hurt. Of course it hurt. You know, that being said, I was happy it happened. I was happy that that garden was full and I was happy that it was exactly the fight I expected it to be. Those are two of the greatest women that have ever put on boxing gloves. And you can make an argument that it might be the two best, you know,

but it's two of the greatest women that I put on boxing gloves and you can make an argument that it might be the two best you know uh but it's two of the greatest women that i put on boxing gloves and they threw down and by the way everyone should stop with the talk of three minute rounds embrace the fact that women's boxing is its own thing and that the sports have their fights are much more active much, much quicker pace and have a tremendous rate of activity that the male game doesn't have. And that women's boxing is a little bit safer than the men's game. And the idea of changing the rules now to make it less safe because a few women think they'll score more knockdowns.

The people that are really screaming about the difference between three and two minute rounds are haters or people making excuses for why you only fight two minutes or no, those, those fucking people are never going to accept women's boxing or give the women the credit that they deserve. But I want to tell you something, you very rarely see a shit women's fight. And the reason for that is the women get out there and there is no stopping. There was no resting. There's no taking a minute off. They get out there and they throw down. And by the way, women give birth.

Women bear children. Women's thresholds for pain are better than men's. And increasing the length of the rounds is not going to increase in a major way the number of knockouts. You want to increase the number of knockouts, make the gloves smaller, which by by the way, is safer, where adding minutes is more dangerous.

So the idea that women should add minutes, make the sport less attractive to TV, because you and I know that shorter fights are desirable by TV executives and streaming executives, that people today want immediate gratification and action compacted to a smaller period of time. It's not going to make the product better. And it's going to make it less safe. And I don't want to see that. And I also really like the two minute rounds. I love the pace of a women's fight. I love it. I enjoy it. And if you think it's so difficult right now

to get, there's no network, as we said, doing a series to develop women. We're saying, I need a women's boxing series. You think longer fights are going to make them think that they, you know, I won't give you, you know, 30 minutes to make a title fight, but I'm going to, I'm going to jump over backwards to give you 50 minutes? No. That's not how it works. Would it be a massive blunder, and it seems like we're going in that direction, to not do the immediate rematch? From your perspective, it looks like Amanda's going to fight someone else on August 6th, not Katie Taylor. They had something special, talking of Croke Park in Ireland or running it back here in New York City.

Is that a massive blunder? It was never going to Ireland. There's a reason why the fight never happened abroad. And I don't have proof of the exact reason, but I believe if they ever fight again, it's not going to wind up happening abroad. Okay. I believe if they fight again, it'll happen in the US. Can you tell us what the reason is?

I don't know, but look, I mean, it's not easy necessarily to travel. If you've ever made a mistake in your past, in your life, it's not so easy to travel. Um, you know, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that, but it doesn't, you know, it doesn't shock me that it's not going to happen in, in, in Ireland. Got it. Okay. Um, but the fact that it's not happening next, is that a mistake in your opinion anywhere? I mean, yeah, no yeah no i mean neither one of them you know i mean i if it never boxing is unpredictable so if you have something that big you sort of want to go right to it again yeah because who knows what happens in the interim right right the will

the fight be less big and in the spring or the end of the year. I don't know. I don't necessarily think it's horrible that it's not immediately happening. Okay. The other thing, too, is like, look, fairness to Amanda, 35 is not her best weight. Yeah. I mean, she really is a pure featherweight. I mean, she's fought as low as 115.

She fought 115 for a title and then fought 140 three months later. And you know what? Does she deserve her Ring Magazine belt and her accolades for unifying the weight class? I think she does. So I'm not troubled with Amanda or Jordan wanting to get Jake to help them get an undisputed title. I don't know. She's on a Jake undercard where he can determine how he's spending his undercard money and his money. That's something I couldn't do for them.

I couldn't get Showtime to make a deal with Amanda or the zone to make a deal with Amanda or ESPN to make a deal with Amanda. I tried. And by the way, I might've been able to honestly also to make some arguments about why maybe I was entitled to keep working together but you know what we had a nice run together and I would never have done anything to block Taylor Serrano

from happening I have too much invested in my soul with women's boxing wanting to see it grow and change that I was never going to be an impediment to that fight ultimately happening. But I can understand why Amanda wants to unify Featherweight and get a ring magazine belt.

She's earned that. Speaking of immediate rematches, are we going to see Kambosis Haney too right away? Is that the next fight for George Kambosis? I haven't really talked to George or his dad since the fight in any detail. They have the right to cause it. I think he can fight better. I thought, honestly, for a shitty fight,

I think there were some distractions that need to disappear. I wasn't thrilled that he missed weight. And I think the week of the fight, there was a lot of, like I said, there's a lot of distractions. I don't want to get into details. But it looked to me that Haney and his team were the more focused team leading up to the fight. I think George can fight a lot better, and I think the rematch would be more pleasing than the first fight. I think it's likely he's going to exercise the rematch clause, and I think it's likely that Haney will honor it.

So I think it's likely, but I can't definitively say. Is it a tough sell for Australia for ESPN? Like, can you go back, same condition, let's say it's in November, and do this all over again? You can't go back to a stadium. No. You can't think you're going to sell 42,000 seats or 40,000 seats again. But can you go to an arena and sell it out? And can George make it much more of an entertaining fight?

Yes. Can you load an undercard that has significant Australian talent and that would appeal to boxing fans in Australia where you could sell out a 22,000-seat arena? Yes. So is it an easy sell? No, it wasn't a scintillating first fight. It wasn't.

And it was a dominant boxing clinic um george never sold out he never committed to walk past that jab and take chances i was very surprised by that by that part of the fight you know and he was getting tagged with every jab anyway so i would have sort of expected that he would have walked through more and taken more chances but it just sometimes you don't have your night. And you know what? He had never fought in front of 4,000 people in Australia. Forget about 42,000. And your home and your first real fight of your career at home is this extravaganza. And it's very easy to get sort of caught up in it. It's not an excuse. You know, he got his head handed to him.

But I know that he can fight better than that. And I know that a rematch will be a better fight. Is it an easy sell? No, but, you know, that's what Aram, you know, top-ranking Aram, myself, my staff, that's what we're good at. So it's on us a little bit to do the right things, to make it an event. But if they exercise the rematch and Haiti accepts it, we'll what we're good at. So it's on us a little bit to do the right things, to make it an event. But if they exercise the rematch and Haiti accepts it, we'll make an event of it.

In your Hall of Fame speech, you talked about being a 10-year-old boy listening to Ali Frazier on radio, or at least listening for updates, right? So you couldn't even listen to it live? No, you couldn't listen to it live. It was round-by-round updates. They tell you who won each round and i and i remember also sitting there and i'd be trying to real quickly go from ins to cbs to see how they both scored it wow but i was but i mean i was like a little kid man and and uh my father my father knew i was doing it but he got a little bit of a kick out of it so he let me do it but i'd be sitting there listening to it under my pillow and you know to be

50 years later to be inducted into a hall of Fame on the same stage as Muhammad's daughter, Layla, you know, like I said this on the stage, man, I've been blessed. Like those guys were my ultimate heroes. They became my friends. I was at both their funerals. I know their families. I mean, Hagler, Hearn, Leonard, and Duran, when I was in college and law school, those were my heroes. They became my friends and every significant boxer over the last 30 years, I know them. Every one of them, even if I didn't promote them.

I mean, man, I've been blessed, man. I love this sport and I love baseball. And I run two minor league baseball teams and I'm a Hall of Fame boxing promoter. And man, my life has been, I've been fortunate. And I don't,'t you know i am the kind of guy that's a little bit like complain about this complain about that that's a that's a fair criticism of me it comes from a good place but i'm not going to bullshit you it's a little bit of that in me and to have this experience in the last five days and to really get to reflect on your whole career and see so many people you care about and interact with all these boxing fans who are what I must um I'm blessed man you know I'm

humbled right now I don't know how much longer this adrenaline rush will last but I'm feeling real good the last few days I love that we're catching you in this mood uh a little reflective and and grateful it. It's a beautiful thing. I want to ask you about the baseball stuff in a moment, but could I ask, who introduced you to boxing? Do you remember the first time that you were introduced? Oh, I do, actually. I'll tell you what it was. It was interesting because in a lot of weird ways, it's the same introduction as I got to baseball. my grandparents were Italian immigrants. And, you know, Italian first language for both of my grandfathers.

And both of them came over here with this, like, wanting to be American kind of thing. So they got over here and they tried to learn about baseball and watch baseball. But the sport that – back then you didn't get a lot of soccer, you weren't getting soccer games televised in the United States or available on TV. So the only sport that they grew up with that was really televised here was boxing. And at the time I was a little kid, there was a great Italian fighter, Nino Benvenuti, who, you know, to this day is probably the greatest

Italian fighter who's ever lived. And he was fighting fairly regularly on American TV, that he was the king of the middleweight division for a period of time. And literally, I don't even think I was like first grade or second grade. I was a little kid. And I remember watching a Nino Benvenuti fight with one of my grandparents, my grandfather. And my grandfather rooting so hard for Nino because he was the Italian fighter. And I didn't really know sports at that point very much. I mean, I'd watch baseball a little bit and I'm sitting there and I'm watching a fight. But guess what? It's easy to understand the fight. Two guys are fighting. Which guy's beating up the other guy? It's not like rocket science. It's why I've always said, by the way,

children might make better judges than politically influenced judges attached to ratings organizations and commissions. Put that aside. But as a kid, I'm like, you know, man, I can dig this fighting kind of thing, you know? And my first introduction was watching the Nino Benvenuti fight.

My second introduction wasn't even a fight. It was watching an interview with Muhammad Ali and saying to myself, wow, I mean, this guy, this is the prettiest, best spoken, most charismatic, like most captivating human being I've ever seen. And just watching that interview with Ali, I had a new hero. And then I started seeking out Ali fights and, you know, watching anything on Ali that was on,

if Ali was on an interview or on TV or whatever, my mother or father always called me in because they knew like, you know, how I, how much Ali was my, my guy. And, um, and after, from the first time I saw Muhammad Ali, boxing was ingrained in my, my soul, my heart. And, and, and, uh, and I don't think I'm the only person that felt that way. I can tell you there's a lot of people in my injury, but a little bit younger was introduction to boxing was Ali. And, and, and that was it. I mean, you were, we were, you know, we were hooked.

Um, so I, that's, that's really where I traced my love for boxing to. When did you first meet Ali? I was, first met Ali around 1990. I was at HBO. And Time Warner, he did a book called Healing. And had some books that were on Warner Brothers, you know, the time Warner had been involved with. And I got to sort of work with him and Lonnie, his wife and promoting those books and doing some public appearances and

personal appearances. And he took a liking to me and he was, I mean, I mean, I never knew Ali a hundred percent healthy, but I knew Ali bright eyed and smart and quick and doing magic tricks and and and really expressing i mean look he's one of the it's very rare that you have a hero and you meet the guy and and he exceeds your expectations okay but i can say that that was the case with ali

and to a degree it was the case with fraszier both of whom knew what they meant to my lives, both of whom in the times I was able to spend with them, the kush I had with them treated me beautifully and allowed me to continue to love them as much as I did when I was

a little child. How'd you get the HBO job? It's a pretty cool story actually I was a little child. How'd you get the HBO job? It's a pretty cool story, actually. I was interviewing to be general counsel in the New York Yankees. Wow. I was 29 years old. I was working at Sullivan and Cromwell, a big law firm. I had a great experience at that law firm. By the way, I learned a lot about how to think like an attorney and how to think critically and stuff. But everyone I worked with at that law firm knew I wanted to be in sports or entertainment. And as long as I did my job, they didn't really care. But they knew that I didn't plan to stay forever.

I planned on trying to get a gig in sports or entertainment. I was able to have a bunch of interviews for the Yankees general counsel job. This was 1989. And I interviewed with numerous Yankee executives and they got narrowed down to three people. And I had an interview scheduled with George Steinberg. It was on a Friday. I'll never forget this. And I went to my boss at Sullivan Cromwell, told him I did a day off. He asked me why. I told him the truth. He said, good luck, you know,

because the people that were really cool and they knew what my heart wanted to do. And they weren't like, they, they, they wanted to see me make that kind of move. Um, which by the way,

I'll always be grateful for that too. But I got a call back then. Like a lot of people didn't even have cell phones, but if you had one, like I did, it was big. And I was sitting in my apartment, apartment, my apartment phone rang and it's Steinbrenner secretary. And she's sheepish as hell. I pick up the phone. It's almost like silence on the other end. And then I hear this like little low voice, like, uh, this is a so-and-so I'm

George Steinbrenner's assistant. And she tells me that George was canceling the interview, that he had looked at my resume and he said, you have an incredibly impressive resume, but he didn't want to hire a kid in his twenties to be the chief lawyer for the Yankees. So I was, there were three finalists. I was one of them. I got eliminated before I got into the final interview. But the secretary did me a real favor. She said, I think the guy that's getting offered the job was interviewing for a job as the chief lawyer for HBO Sports. Bang, light goes off in my head, HBO Sports, boxing, Seth Abraham.

I put my resume in my pocket. I had my suit already on because I was planning on going up to the Bronx. Instead of going to the Bronx, I went to 42nd Street and 6th Avenue, snuck past security in the HBO building, which you could still do because it was 10 years prior to 9-11. Talked my way up the stairs, went to see the lawyer at HBO and say, you're about to hire the wrong guy. Got into Seth Abraham's office on a Friday afternoon, spent 90 minutes with Seth, talking about boxing, talking about baseball, telling him that I was the right guy. That was a Friday afternoon. Monday, I took an enormous pay cut, but accepted a job at HBO. And then sort of the rest is history. So that's how I got the job at HBO.

What a story. That is unbelievable. And I don't know if I ever told you this, but I worked at HBO as well. I missed you. I was an intern there in 2003. And then the following year, I worked as a PA in their documentary department. So when I was in college, I was a big boxing fan. I loved their journalism.

To me, they were the, you know, the gold standard. And unfortunately, they're no longer in boxing. Do you ever foresee? It's mind-blowing to me that Bob Greenway goes out of boxing. Can they get back in? It's no accident, by the way. That period of time that I was at HBO, Mark Taffet was there working on pay-per-view stuff. Ross Greenberg was executive producer

I originally was working with a guy named Bob Greenway who preceded me but was became one of the heads of the Golf Network which was a great programming guy and I mean I worked with, you know, and then producers like Dave Hartman and Thomas Odelfeld, John Crystal, I mean

it was the glory days of HMO sports and we were a force not only in boxing. We were a force in sports programming. We were a major sports division at a growing network that was growing like a snowball rolling down a mountain. So, I mean, I learned a lot from the people I worked with. I mean, they were very smart people, very competitive people. I mean, I don't know how Seth did it because every one of us, you know, had a huge ego and a huge amount of ambition, like maybe a little bit of blind ambition. Everybody wanted to run HBO Sports. Everybody wanted a bigger gig. But it was a great time to be at HBO and it was a tremendous

learning experience for me. And working with people that smart every day makes you so much sharper and better, you know? So I'm grateful to not only to Seth, but everyone I worked with when I was at HBO. Any chance they get back in? Do you foresee that day? You know, maybe. It wouldn't shock me for one reason. I think Discovery's about to do a deal with HBO, and HBO Sports assets would be part of the Discovery group. They have Eurosport in Europe. Boxing is huge in Europe.

Boxing after dark brands and logos still exist. HBO Championship Boxing, an incredible library of fights and of docu's and programming for HBO. Maybe, maybe there is an opening with that new deal. Maybe Discovery will see an opportunity. I certainly can see an opportunity for that. But who knows? You know, you mentioned the baseball team. So you own two, the Montgomery Biscuits and the Richmond Flying Squirrels.

Unbelievable names, by the way. Two AA affiliates, one for the Giants, one for the Tampa Bay Rays. How the hell did you get into this? And is this a lucrative business? Oh, it's a lucrative business. If you're a good operator, it's a lucrative business. Like anything else, it's a very lucrative business if you're good at it. And also, part of it is what market are you in? I mean, Richmond's an incredible market. We consistently lead,

you know, are like league leaders in attendance and up at the top attendance teams in AA. You know, Montgomery is a smaller city, but it's an incredible city. It's the cradle of the civil rights movement. One of the things I want to do in our ballpark, we have a historic ballpark in a historic part of town. It's sort of part of that civil rights tour. It's in that area of Montgomery. I want to talk to Bob Kendrick at the Negro League Hall of Fame. I want to do some kind of a, you know, historical permanent exhibit in our ballpark.

But I love the Montgomery market. I love the race people. They're a great organization. The Giants are like, Iants, Yankees, Red Sox. There were those core organizations in minor league baseball in general that are the gold standard. I think the Giants are one of those organizations that's a gold standard. And I've always been affiliated. I was in Connecticut with what's now the Richmond Flying Squirrels from the early 2000s. One of the first things I did when I left HBO was invest in a minor league baseball team

because I loved baseball. I wanted to be in baseball. Again, I didn't really think I would ever be the person of authority in two major league affiliated minor league teams. That's another dream I was able to realize. That balance is beautiful with boxing. Boxing is sort of a guilty,

a little bit of a dark pleasure. And minor league baseball is like family entertainment, sort of like, you know, a much more affordable family entertainment than any major league sport. And you're getting to see a lot of the best players

and double A players are the ones that go and jump generally from double a right to the minors. So you're seeing superstar talent when they're still hungry and, and not so affected by the big time. I love minor league baseball and I think it's a great experience for everybody to get some opportunity to watch it. And it's great family entertainment. And it's been very rewarding to have that alongside

boxing in my life and and that's not an issue there's no conflict there like you can own multiple teams in different leagues the different yeah i have the the montgomery biscuits from the southern league the the uh the richmond flag squirrels were in the eastern league so uh you can't own multiple teams yeah well actually right now actually right now, Endeavor, you're, you know, the guys that own UFC are becoming a huge power player in minor league baseball. They've bought over 10 teams and they see, I think they see the big, big business potential of minor league baseball. It's, it's content, it's programming. There are great athletes participating. And, you know, they, I think they're also buying teams that have affiliations with some of the bigger markets. And I think they understand that, you know, a Yankee or a Dodger, you know, there are teams that those affiliations are very valuable.

And Devers becoming a big player in minor league baseball. I think that now that the minor leagues report directly to the commissioner's office, it's a different paradigm, but I think it maybe is a more sensible paradigm. I enjoy personally working with the guys at MLB. I think they're learning that I know what I'm doing too. And that the people that work for me, I have a great management team in baseball.

I have a guy that's like a complete legend named Parnie, Todd Parnell, who's literally like a Bill Veck of this generation. We know what we're doing. We do it well. I enjoy working and interacting with MLB on the minor league stuff. It sort of energizes me actually a little bit more in boxing because I have other outlets for for my sanity and talents would you ever consider or want to own a piece of a major league team yeah maybe yeah much more so if someone ever came to me and said Lou we think you're good at what you're doing like you know I could have a role as opposed to just raising some money. I'm not Eddie or Arab in terms of my nest egg.

The cost of the major league teams, I'm not going to walk in there as a major investor. You have to be wealthy to be a limited partner, which I probably could pull off. I like the involvement, the activity with the minor league stuff that I'm able to have a real role. If I was given the opportunity to be part of a team that was going to try to get a major league team, would I be interested in it? Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, I'd be interested in it. Just a couple more left. And again, thank you very much for the time. I read an interview with you that was in the Daily News recently, and you had an interesting line there that kind of i understood why it was put in there but i i would love to ask you to elaborate

on it you said if the ufc isn't careful they're in danger of becoming niche as well something to i'm paraphrasing what did you mean by that um you know pay-per-view is a hard distribution mechanism. Combat sports are a difficult world to navigate. And, you know, I think that they have to, they became the dominant combat sport for a period of time. I think we're making it a little bit closer now. But I think their competition, particularly with the magnitude of the deal they made when they were purchased and the fact that they're capable of right now being able to gather a lot of eyeballs, they can't get comfortable because they're doing well in the combat sports arena. They have the same need to build a greater and wider fan base and try to become competitive in that general pantheon of all sports, including the team sports. So I really meant by it is they need to stay on their toes. And look, I mean, you have the perception.

You have a lot of, look, you have some disgruntled fighters, players in the industry that are, you know, it's not a great thing that you're constantly listening to UFC fighters saying they want to fight Jake Paul or want to get into boxing. You know, our biggest stars make crazy amounts of money. Now, that being said, there's a little bit of illusion with all these guys wanting to get into boxing because similar to UFC, our bigger stars make the majority of the money. And, you know, it's not so easy. You cross into boxing as a UFC fighter, unless you're a

star fighter already, you're crossing over to something that's just as limited in terms of your potential earnings as MMA is. However, if you're a huge brand and you can get out there and you can fight your Francis and you can get out there and make a fight with Tyson Fury, or you're given the opportunity to fight another superstar, a Mayweather or somebody else like that, there's going to be opportunity to make money that you never dreamed of. You know, I think that for the right fight, a Holly Holm or Chris Cyborg or,

or somebody could cross back, you know, Holly in her case, she just got into the hall of fame, very deserved honor, by the way, because people who never watched her fights or understood how good a boxer she was,

she was a great boxer. But I, you know, there were opportunities maybe for those kind of ladies to cross over. But, I mean, at the point I was making, it was not a negative comment about UFC. It was just more like we're still a combat sport. Our audience is, you know, not everybody loves combat sports. Not every parent wants their kid to become a fan of combat sports.

And also, I think that you have a perception, and many other people do, that maybe in the last year or two, boxing's made some inroads to sort of catch up. Only point I was making is they got to be on their toes. So do we. And it's nice to see this love that you have for MMA because, of course, a lot of MMA fans may have been first introduced to you on that infamous SportsCenter segment where you went up against Joe Rogan, hosted by Brian Kenney. Yeah, but he was no more right than I was. Oh, no, it was just great. It was great television. Do you regret doing that, by the way? It's a whole other thing, but I was discombobulated that day. It's a whole other story, but I had a real bad day. People forget, too, the way that that thing really ended.

The first time it was aired, I think it was actually on TV the first time it was aired, was at the end of it, Rogan blew me a kiss like really and i flipped him the bird but i don't think that that that last little part is on the uh youtube video or anything do you regret doing that i mean i i regret the fact i need to fucking hear about it every fucking day of my life still you still get asked about it a lot? Oh, we do this week. Forget about it. I can't go to an M&A event without like a million people busting my balls.

Do I regret doing it? I mean, I don't regret anything. Who gives a shit? Good. Last thing. What's your most... You know what i think it was weirdly had i not done that interview i actually made an effort after that interview to learn a little bit more about it and as i saw the product get better and as i

began to appreciate the quality of anime and what they sacrifice and what they do. I mean, and I got to really learn the sport a little bit. It made me appreciate it. And I'm not going to say I'm a hardcore fan now, but I'm absolutely, I consider myself a fan, like more of a casual, but I'm a fan. I like it. Since you're in this reflective mood, I just wanted to ask, as you look back, and you're far from done, but as you look back on what you have accomplished

so far, what is your proudest achievement? What are you most proud of that you've accomplished in boxing? I think I changed the way TV executives viewed the sport. I think that I became much more active as a sort of a matchmaker and wanting to like the same kind of quality control HBO wanted for its dramatic series of movies and documentaries. I tried to institute that in boxing. And I think that influenced a lot of people. Maybe not as much as I would like.

I think today I would like to see more quality control being exercised by some of the players. But I think that was a big contribution. I think I opened up boxing for the lower weight classes. No question about that. Before I started at HBO, very few featherweights below were getting any attention at all. I think I helped women as a promoter.

You know, man, I don't want to sound egotistical, but if everything ended tomorrow, I've had a good run. And I'm proud of a lot of what I've done. And I think I've left the legacy. So it's nice to feel that way and not be hatred yet. Congratulations. Incredible run. Congrats on the Hall of Fame nod this past weekend. Really cool to see.

And thanks for always being so kind to me and for giving me the time of day. Early on, a lot of boxing people weren't so kind and willing to speak to the MMA guys. So I always appreciated that from you. you and appreciate you giving us an hour. Thanks for giving me this platform. And I got to be honest, I like speaking to your audience. I actually think there's still a kinship between fans of all combat sports. We understand how our sports differ from others and how the athletes in our sports are different from others.

I mean, fighters are a different breed and that goes for every variety of fighter. And by the way, good luck to your Mets. Not a bad start. Let's go Mets, man. I'm so fucking happy. And I can say it on your show, let's fucking go Mets. Thank you, Lou.

All the best. Thank you. How great was that? I love talking to these characters, these promoters, these managers, these dealmakers, if you will, the executives. The business of sports and the business of combat sports has always been very interesting to me. And I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. And really cool that he's also involved in the world of baseball. Minor League Baseball is a fascinating world as well. So that was great stuff, relevant stuff, interesting stuff, passionate stuff. Lou DiBella, one of the great characters in the history of boxing, an honor to speak to him, especially a couple of days removed from his Hall of Fame induction. Mazel tov to Lou DiBella on that. Hope you enjoyed it. If you want to watch it, go to youtube.com slash Ariel Helwani. That's where you can see the whole interview. You can

see our recent stuff with rosie perez and the great ricky hatton devin haney before his fight we had him up there we've had so many great interviews over the past few months from the likes of dan lebitard and michelle beetle and pat mcafee and aj hawk and daniel ricardo the great mjf who's very relevant to the world of pro wrestling action bronson emma lovewell and the list goes on and on. Go check them all out, either on the YouTube channel or on this feed. They're all up there. I'm very proud of the work that we've done over the past year. And yeah, it's been a year now officially since I've left ESPN, and this was one of my big things that I wanted to do. And I think a lot of people thought I wouldn't do it. And now here we are a year later

with a great library of interviews and a lot of big names. I'm very proud of all the guests that we've had and the quality of the conversations that we've put out. And I really appreciate your support. There is more to come. We may take a bit of a break here, a little summer break, if you will, but don't worry, I'm going to pop up here and there. And I know most of you just kind of see the stuff on social media and click on it or subscribe here. So you'll be well informed. If you aren't subscribing, please do. And please rate, review, and leave a comment. Do all the things that people say you should do with podcasts because it's very important and it helps.

And we appreciate you all very, very much. I also appreciate our great production team. And I also appreciate the good folks over at NordVPN for supporting our little engine that could. Thank you very much to them as well. Go to nordvpn.com slash Ariel to get your great NordVPN deal exclusive to our listeners slash viewers. Again, thank you very much to Lou DiBella.

Hope you all enjoy your weekend. I'll talk to you very soon, all right? Don't worry. We'll be back very soon with plenty more great conversations. For now though, again, great weekend. Check out some of our old stuff. Thank you to Lou.

Thank you to all of you. I love you all. I'll see you soon. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.