The Ariel Helwani Show - Mateusz Gamrot, 'The Smashing Machine' Director Benny Safdie, Fighting Nerds Head Coach, Amir Khan, Tom Nolan, Zombie Jr.

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

Ariel Helwani kicks off the show with a brief review of "The Smashing Machine," and reaction to Artem Lobov withdrawing from his return fight (05:37).Mateusz Gamrot is back to talk about his short-notice fight against Charles Oliveira, what it was like to get the call and his emotions after, getting advice from teammate Dustin Poirier, being energized by fighting in enemy territory, and more (12:16).Fighting Nerds head coach Pablo Morão Sucupira talks about the formation of the team, their rapid ascent, handling criticism during a rough patch, believing they will still create champions, how the team takes the next step, and being in attendance for Wanderlei Silva getting knocked out (32:58)."Zombie Jr.," JooSang Yoo, makes his show debut to discuss his dedicated fan base, meeting "The Korean Zombie" Chan Sung Jung for the first time, being on "Dana White: Lookin' for a Fight," continuing to use the "Zombie" moniker, and more (1:02:46).After Ariel and The Boys in the Back share more thoughts on "The Smashing Machine," the film's director Benny Safdie joins to express his passion for combat sports, talk about the film's realism and choices he made to mirror the original documentary, including recreating specific MMA settings and props, and his mission to pay tribute to MMA pioneers (1:42:13).Amir Khan joins from Nigeria to discuss his transition into boxing promotion, putting on his first event, Dana White's entry into the sport, being comfortable in retirement, the passing of Ricky Hatton, and more (2:07:49).Tom Nolan is our final guest of the day, breaking down his win at UFC Perth before taking about training at 14 years old, overcoming his first professional loss, preparing for a championship run, and his exchange with Joe Schilling after the win (2:31:28).

Ladies and gentlemen, now, welcome to the Eri-A-R-I-D-Y show. Back in your life on this Tuesday, September 30th, 2000. And 25, hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. It's great to be here on a lovely Tuesday, in New York City jam-packed super stack show on today's program six count of six guests

from around the world joining us today. Looking forward to it. Yesterday was a great one, Demetrius Johnson, Diego Lopez, Ben Ascran, how great was that? And you may recall, at the end of yesterday's show, I told you that the team was going to have an opportunity to watch The Smashing Machine, starring Dwayne the Rock Johnson.

And we had it. It was a fun little get-together, if you will. We all cuddled up, had some snacks, put it on the big screen. Felt quite honored. You know, everyone gets to go to these like, you know, these premieres and all this stuff. No, no, no. Here at the Area Holwani Show, at Uncrowned, we get our own special screening. And so I'd like to offer some thoughts on what I witnessed. The film comes out on Friday. There's a review of the film on Uncrowned.com right now by Ben Folks. And of course, it's about the Smashing Machine Marker, the documentary that came out in 2002. Have a lot to say about it. And we'll be talking a lot about it on today's program and probably tomorrow as well.

Why on today's program? Because the director of the film, Benny Safdi, is going to be joining us at 240. I'm so excited about this because I find him to be a fascinating guy. Spoiler, I thought the film was incredible. a different kind of guest, a brilliant human being who is very successful at a pretty young age, still in his 30s. We kind of share some similarities. There's a lot that I think we have in common. I'm really looking forward to this. So he'll join us at 240. Thoughts to come. Stand by for those. In about eight minutes time, we'll be joined by Mateus Gamrod, who you know by now is going to be

fighting Charles Olivera on October the 11th. That's next weekend. He's replacing Rafael Fazeev in the main event of UFC Rio, the pride of Poland, getting his opportunity, the chance that he has been really dying for and asking for. And so looking forward to that very much. Following that interview, Pablo Sukupria is going to be joining us. He is the head coach of the fighting nerds. We've been talking a lot about the fighting nerds. If they were, you know, overrated, if they'll be able to bounce back, what happened? What's the difference in this year, last year, et cetera, et cetera. We've been talking a lot. We've been talking a lot. lot about them and to the members of the team, why don't we talk to the guy who put it all

together, who's a brilliant coach who deserves all the praise and success that he has received as of late, who recently became my father, and I'm looking forward. Oh, by the way, he was also at that Spatton Fight Night event this past weekend in which Van der Le Silva got knocked out. So I think it's going to be a very interesting chat. Following that, Zhu Sang Yu, aka Zombie Jr. is going to be joining us. He returns to action this Saturday at UFC 320 against Daniel Santos. He made his UFC debut at UFC 316 after winning on Contender Series, not Contender Series, excuse me, Dana White looking for a fight in December. It was the show that Dana White was supposed to attend in South Korea, which is put on by the great Chan Sung Jung, the Korean

zombie. But then he had some issues. He couldn't fly. And it was the same weekend as the Kobe Covington Joaquin Buckley fight and so if you recall he talked about having a special viewing all that stuff anyway

Zhu Sang Yu was picked up from that show put in the UFC had an incredible less than 60 second 30 or so second win in his debut and now returns to action

is on this card on Saturday very popular over in South Korea a mentor of his of course is Chan Sung will talk to

zombie junior at about 2 o'clock Benny Safdia 240, Amir Khan, the great boxer, who represented Great Britain and, of course, Pakistan on the biggest of stages, who fought the likes of Terrence Crawford and Canell Alvarez and so many others, retired in 2022, has his own fight promotion, and they're putting on an event tomorrow in Nigeria. And so we'll talk to Amir Khan about that. And we'll round out the day with Tom Nolan, who was victorious this past weekend at U.S. Perth. He's going to be joining us. It will be 5.30 in the morning in Brisbane when he joins us,

3.30 hour time. And it was very kind of him. I sent him a message thanking him for waking up early, and he said that he's been waiting for this message since 2014, which was a really nice thing to read. It made me feel a little bit old as well, but I appreciate how much it means to him. It blows me away, but I appreciate it, and I'm thankful and grateful for it. And so we look forward to talking to Big Train, Tom Nolan, who competed this past Saturday and won via submission in the first round

against Charlie Campbell. So that's the show right there and a lot in between. We have a lot of news and notes to get to as well. Quick thoughts on the smashing machine. I will just say that that film and forgive me if I repeat this

when Benny comes on, that documentary which I saw in 2002 when I was a senior at Syracuse University via VHS, I still believe, until this day, you've heard me say it, it's the best MMA documentary of all time. And others have come, namely Fightville, I think is a great one as well. But I think Smashing Machine is the best because it was so early in, you know, in MMA's history.

And Mark Kerr was such a compelling character. and he was so open and he was so willing to show all of his ups and downs on camera. And it was at a time where, you know, MMA is less than 10 years old. This, this documentary ends up on HBO and you're like, holy crap, HBO is showing anything related to MMA. This is huge. And then it's a guy, you know, putting steroids in his body and high on drugs and having incredible highs and incredible lows and it's pride and it's backstage and it's Mark Coleman

and it's all this stuff. It's very raw. And I'm watching it as a very, very, very homesick, depressed, lonely student who just can't wait to get out of this place. And my only friend was fight sports, combat sports, MMA, boxing, pro wrestling, like those were my friends. And I would watch other things as well, but my sport, my bills sucked, my Knicks sucked, got into soccer a little bit, would watch Arsenal, but it was fight sports. My expos left. And I rewatched the documentary, as I said yesterday, before watching the film. And I was taken back to that time. And the documentary was almost like comfort food. It was like a warm blanket. It was like, wow, anything related to MMA. I couldn't go on YouTube. I couldn't look this stuff up. I couldn't like look up

clips on these things didn't exist. YouTube didn't exist. Instagram didn't exist. Facebook didn't exist. Twitter didn't exist. You know, you had MySpace and that was just a bunch of, you know, friends and music and stuff. It was nothing. And so this was gold. Like, I didn't want it to end. And I always held it in such high regard, but I don't think I've seen it since the first or maybe second time I watched it right after. So I had this vision of it. And when you hear that the rock is going to play, you're like, okay, will the rock, will it feel like the rock is playing Mark Kerr, as opposed to like, can you suspend this belief and escape to where you're, you're watching Mark Kerr, if you know what I mean.

And I felt like The Rock nailed it. I think The Rock did a fantastic job. And any chatter about him being nominated for awards and perhaps an Oscar, I think is very, very, very deserved. It's a brilliant movie. If you're an MMA fan, you will adore it. If you're an old school MMA fan, you will absolutely love it. If you're a new school MMA fan, you will love it.

If you're just a regular non-sports, non-fight fan, just moviegoer, I think you will love it. Emily Blunt is incredible. The Rock is incredible. Dwayne Johnson is incredible. I can't recommend it enough. Shout out to Ryan Bader. Shout out to Bas Routin.

Shout it to Alexander Usik. It's, it's, it's, it's, here's the best thing that I could say about the smashing machine. The best thing that I can say about the smashing machine is that it is the best MMA documentary of all time and it is the best MMA film of all time. And that's the God's honest truth. Nothing comes close to that. Warrior was great. It doesn't come close. Here comes the boom was great. Doesn't come close. Nothing comes close to the film. And the dock, there is some competition with the dock. Fight Fill was great. The John Fitch dock was great. There have been some good docs, but nothing quite like it. And rewatching it was fascinating as well. So yeah, it just kind of took me back to that time. I kind of get chills thinking about it. I was really depressed. I was really lonely. And these were my only escapes. And to think, think some 23 years later, you know, would come out as a film and The Rock is involved,

who at the time was a superstar, and to see what it did for his career, how it reinvented him and all the praise that he's getting. It's a wonderful story. And I'm so happy that Mark Kerr is around to be able to enjoy all of these accolades that he's getting. And I can tell you that tomorrow Mark Kerr is going to be on the program. And I'm looking forward to that very, very much. So there's just, yeah, there's just a lot there, and I can't recommend it enough. If it comes out on Friday, you should go out and see it. And you know me, I'm not the big, you know,

cinephile on the team. So when I say you should go out and see it, you should go out and see it. I don't waste those recommendations. We'll talk more about the film because the rest of the team saw it as well, and I'm looking forward to hearing their thoughts. I do want to let you know some unfortunate news

at the top of the program. We were very much looking forward to Artem Lobby, Hardem Lobov versus Zubaira Tehugov. That's, well, it was scheduled for this Friday, PFL event in Dubai. And fortunately, we got the word this morning via the PFL that the fight has been canceled. And it's such a blow to the card because it was a really, really, you know, it was a much publicized and much, much discussed, much talked about feud

that they were able to put together this fight. And we all thought that, you know, Lobov was maybe done. He came back and he was on the program. He was great on the show. And he posted on social media this morning that, you know, he was in great shape. He was in great spirits. He was training yesterday doing some wrestling and clashed heads with his training partner, gushing blood.

Doctors checked them out. He's got a flap and he can't fight. He was very apologetic to not only the fans, but the PFL and most notably to Zubaira, very apologetic, which I thought was respectful and notable. So that is some unfortunate news off the top. The card is still a great one. the two title fights, in particular, Usbanda Marga Madov versus Paul Hughes, fantastic, can't wait. They've done a great job of promoting it, but that is a bit of a blow to the card.

Now, we move on to our first guest of the day, and the first guest of the day is someone who we saw last week on social media, having the time of his life, having an incredible moment as he found out that he would, in fact, be replacing Rafael Fiziev against Charles Oliva in Rio de Janeiro next weekend, October the 11th. against the legend Charles Olivera. He's been asking for this opportunity. He has been the one in the lightweight division, banging the drum, asking for a shot, asking for a ranked opponent, asking for a big name,

a big opportunity. He finally gets it, not his first main event, I believe his fourth, but at least in the UFC, he finally gets it against that big name that he has been seeking, and kudos to him.

He's taking the fight on short notice. He is the pride of Poland, the one and only Mateus Scamrod, who is kind enough to join us on this Tuesday. Hello, Mateus. How are you, my friend? Thank you for coming on. Hello, Ariel.

Hello, everything is great. How are you, man? I'm doing great and very happy for you. Congratulations. So can I ask you, when you find out that Fiziev is out and now there's an opening, what is the first thing that you do? I see you tweeting and stuff like that, but are you doing stuff behind the scenes to try to get this fight? This was a few days later when I get the fight and was super emotional.

But exactly when I saw the Fizier pull out, I wake up in the morning in Poland because I get tickets to go to the Florida and I was on my way to the plane. And so when I saw this information, in the same moment, I text my manager, hey, I am here, I'm going to the Florida, I am ready to jump in. I've been waiting all my life this opportunity and I don't need it, Cambrough. Just strong mind and go forward. And so were you told that the UFC was consistent? considering you, were you getting any sort of feedback, or were you kind of left in the dark?

Did you not know which direction they would go in? The first moment, I don't have answer. I just put pressure in the media, only just I am ready. I was reacted, what Charles Olivera doing. I saw his interview, like, the first moment, he's not ready for my style. But when I post the picture with the lion, has the most UFC. bonuses in the UFC is not ready to the grappler so I think

this was the final moment when I get the fight who told you that you got it who was on the phone Dan Lambert Dan Lambert told me he he talked with Hunter that the deal is done and I get this

fight and bro I was super excited because all my life and I've been training hard training and waiting for this moment a few later First, after my, when I win this fight, I ask UFC, maybe this is the moment when I fight with Charles Olivera. Jiu-jitsu is my DNA, wrestling as well.

So I want to test myself the most dangerous guy in the ground, you know. So this is going to be epic fight for sure. Oh my gosh, it's a great matchup, and I loved your reaction. And I think everyone else loved your reaction, because we've seen you asking for these opportunities, banging the drum, like I said. And so to see the emotion of you finding, out and to see how much it meant to you.

Can you even describe what you're feeling here as you are reacting to the news? Oh, this is exactly. This is my friend. We're going to the lunch. At the same moment, I saw the call from my manager. And bro, we need to stop it in the gas station because I know something's happened, you know.

And you see my reaction. This was pure life and pure happiness moment to me. because like I say, I get the huge name in the legend of MMA. Olivera, of course, is one of the greatest in Landry Division, but I am more than ready to fight with him, you know. I am not afraid to scramble with him in the ground,

exchange punch in the fight. I have no pressure, bro. The God gives me the conditioning to solve. I'm going to the Rio and I want to take his place. And what about your weight? I mean, is this a tougher weight cut for you because you're taking the fight on short notice? We find out.

We find out in the Friday morning. But right now it's not bad. It's like around, I have around 25 pounds, something like that. So it's not bad. How big were you when you got that call? Same thing. Always I have good shape. I don't have too much weight up, down, up, down.

I have like the same weight all the same way. all the time. So I went in for this weekend and I think Thursday, Friday, I will start cutting weight. Okay. I had heard that there were talks of you fighting Nassim Sarikov in November.

So you were scheduled to fight not too far away. Is that accurate? Yeah, this is true. This is true. Before this, I had fight with Nazim. This was also mine event in UFC in November.

But, you know, if you hear about the name like Olivera, you can't never turn down this fight, you know, he's the name like title fight or something like that, you know, you always can say yes and then go forward. Of course. The only reason I bring that up is to suggest that fight is just a few weeks later. So it wasn't like you were just on the couch relaxing. You were starting to get ready for a fight not too far away, right? The truth is like I say, when Physio pull out, I was the same day to to the playing, go to Florida because I want to start my camp here.

This was like seven weeks before my first fight. But in Poland, I'm still training every day. You know, maybe this is not hard training and super high level, but I train every day. You know, I am good shape. So this is not a problem to take short notice. You have never fought in Brazil. This will be your first time, so it's a big opportunity.

Have you ever been to Brazil? One time I've been to Brazil 10 years ago, 2015, when I won European Trials and I go there to IDCC World Championship, you know, because I won two times European Championship in IDCC and 2015 was Mundial IDCC there. Okay, wow. And I fought there with Lucas Replique. How did you do? Last, I lose, but with the points. Okay, okay, all right, all right. No, this was good experience to me.

I had 25 years old. I was just wrestler. And this time I complete with the best the best jujitsu guys in the world. So for me, for me, it was success because I won the European trials when nobody expects this, you know. So for me, it was the big success

and great experience. Did you know that you are 5 and 0 a perfect 5 and 0 against Brazilian fighters? No. I think you're undefeated against Brazilians. this is good this is good but I don't know that I don't know that so maybe the trend continues is what I'm saying I hope so I hope so I I I going I'm going to Rio and I give my best there and I know that and I feel this I I'm gonna win this

fight I am not afraid you know I I want to exchange punch with him wrestling scramble my conditioning is good I I watch yesterday olivera fights against Sarukia and I watch with I with everybody you know so I know what I need to do in the cage no pressure just hands up and go forward Olivera say he want to be he want to be aggressive this fight you want to start hard so you can expect the same from me when this fight was announced when when it was announced that Charles was going to fight on this date initially against physia of a lot of people including myself were a little bit surprised that he was coming back so soon after getting knocked out the way in which he did again.

against Ilya. Do you think that he is coming back too soon? Do you think that it's a mistake for him to come back this fast? My coaches say same thing. This is a little bit too early because I, but I am not his coaches. He is smart. He is one of the biggest, the Lightway Division, so he knows what he's doing. This is the Rio card. He doesn't fight a long time in Brazil. Maybe that's why he takes this fight. This is risk, of course. But I am not his coach, you know, so we'll see what's happening in the cage. That fight against Ilya was a relatively

quick fight. He got knocked out in the first round, but are there any lessons that you took away from that? Is there any sort of tips or anything that you took away from that fight after watching? This was short fight quick, but very intensive. He go forward, go fast, he tried to take him down. It was a little bit

scrambling in the ground, but his chin doesn't look good, you know, so I saw, he's, When I watch his fight, I always see when, from the beginning, the first round, he always go to aggressive and he starts to be fast. So I expect the same, like the gong will start and we step in the cage. The first moment from the first round is going to be crazy.

And this is a five-round fight, right? Yes, five rounds. Okay. And obviously the atmosphere is going to be great. Everything is, you know, he's one of the biggest stars and the most beloved fighters coming out of Brazil. I understand, correct me from wrong, that you are a fan of his, that you used to wake up and watch him when you were in Europe. Is that true? Yes, yes, yes, always. I sometimes I wake up in the morning and I watch some fights, not all fight, but when I see my favorite fighters

on big fights, always I wake up and I watch this fight. I know I go to the Brazil, I will fight with Charles and I will fight against all Brazilian fans in the arena. I expect this is going to be boo-boo, but I think this is going to give me more energy. This is going to be my team versus all Brazil. The same moment was when I fought with Armand Saruki and when I go to the arena, I saw only Armenian fans and I saw only, I heard only the boo-boo, but no problem. is going to be more energy and more motivation to finish this fight. I kind of feel like you like that now, like you want this energy.

Of course. I like it. Of course like that. Bro, I can't wait this, you know. Every day I wake up, I crying, but crying, this is my motivation. This is like extra energy, extra vibe. Because this is one of the biggest my fight in my life. I know how is the risk, but if I passed Oliver. Vaira in the next weekend, bro, this is going to be big open door my M&A. Yeah.

Are you actually crying? Is that like a literal or like you're saying like you're very emotional going into the fight? Like emotional, but this is the true emotion from inside my body. You know, this is like whatever, everything, what I need in my life, this is this fight and this opportunity, you know, to solve. This is the emotion. This is the crying, but this is like the motivation crying, you know. I don't have my family here, my kids.

I love this, my family in Poland, but everything's what I talk with there or something. This is like extra energy for me, you know, so I think this is the plus. When you were just getting excited over there, did you say Kourwa? Like Koura, did you say that? Kourva! What is that? That means like, let's go like, like it's a very excited thing in Polish, right? Yeah, yeah.

This is a lot of, this is a lot of means, a lot of. a lot of context, whatever you want, but this content, this is like I am super excited and I want this and I am ready to go. I love it. I love it. I could feel the energy coming off the screen. You were talking about your family. Bro, today I did my first sparring session

in American Top Team because first week I need to good acclimatized. I did five runs, high pace, bro. No stop action, everything. And, bro, I am super happy after my first sparring here. probably the Thursday on Friday will be the last session and then Saturday I go to the Brazil and I know right now

that I am ready this fight. Have you talked to your friend Dustin Porreier about Charles? Yeah, I talk with him I asked him about the corner I expect that he will come with me but he has family travel and he can't

but he told me he told me some tips how I can fight with how I can smart fight with Charles what I need to be careful when I need to go so he gives me good tips I talk with him almost every day you know he's my good guy I feel like he wanna

I feel from him that he won that I will win this fight so yeah I everything what doesn't tell me I save my head I love it and so a win over Charles where does that put you what do you think happens if and when you beat him

right now my focus in the is in the charles olivera fight i don't want to think so much what will be next because i did this mistake before when i fought with darius or hooker you know so i know if i beat charles then going to be open the doors in the biggest world but right now my focus in the charles and and strategy this fight okay but but you would agree you wouldn't be too far away from maybe being in that title picture if you win, right? Maybe like one or two away. Maybe, yeah, maybe it depends what's happening in the fight,

how fights will look, how how fast I finish him. But for sure, bro, Charles Oliver is the legend. I respect him so much, but his biggest name, if I pass him, maybe one, maybe two fights and I will be next.

But like I say, right now, my focus is in the Charles fight because he is still dangerous fighter. Sure. You were talking about your family. I saw a video, I think it's of your son training. Is he the next

UFC fighter? What's happening here with your son? Yeah, when I see my son, I see in his eyes like he's the fire and he wants to train every day. This is like we wake up in the morning and he asked me about

hey, daddy, can we train today? Can we fight with each other? to stop and his favorite movie is Avengers you know like the Hulk, Spider-Man somethings and always he asked me hey Daddy when I will be superhero I told him some call down

you have three rules you know be patient you have to be good in the school you have to eat a lot of and you have to train every day and be patient and and I think if he will keep keep

pace like that he wants to train every day so he has only five years old so he for him is a long long way to be the fighter or be

big guy but I think so he will be next next UFC fighters and sometimes when I see Conor's son on Toppuria son so then I see in my head

that these kids want to meet in each other in the tournament wow wow wow that would be how old is he right now five years old oh my gosh okay so he's starting young but he's well on his way is he your oldest my son is five years old and my daughter nine years old okay does your daughter show the same kind of interest in martial arts no my daughter no my daughter no but my but for my son yes okay i love that uh and and by the way you won't be alone in brazil

right, fellow Polish fighter Carolina Kovalkovich and ATT fighter will be on the card as well. So you'll have some sort of help if you need it. Yes, yes. The BIA will be the one woman, the Carolina Kovalkovich as well, and this is going to be

me, and I hear this will be a lot of Polish fans in the arena but bro, this arena is big, 16,000 people so I think it's going to be Poland versus Brazilian there. but everything with the respect. Can I ask, it seems like we're moving towards

Ilia versus Paddy for the belt. How do you feel about that? How do you feel about Patty getting the title shot? If in fact it works out that way and who do you think wins that fight? Oh, I am surprised that because I don't hear that. But yeah, that is like maybe not a big name but for the media.

He's popular, very popular. So maybe he does why he get this fight. interesting matchup but I think Topolia will knock him out him because his train is always always high Topoliar so his BJJ skills is really

good against the charts and sometimes I see his video in the training so his jiu-jitsu skill is good I think Napura will knock him out him. Okay and what about you? Official prediction October 11th you versus Charles

what's the result results my hands going to be win but how will you see because I want to do everything I want to show really my full skills my previous opponent

always stand up from the ground like the ground was fire but with charge this is going to be a non-stop action scramble and exchange techniques from the ground so this is going to be very interesting

and entertaining fight we'll see maybe I submit the charge maybe I knock him out of him or maybe there's going to be five runs, high pace. Doesn't matter how, but my hand's going to be win. For sure, and this is my head, and I'm going to Rio like this mind. I love it.

Well, good luck to you, Mateus. Thank you so much for coming on. Safe travels to Brazil. Go get the job done. I wish you all the best, my friend, and very much looking forward to the fight. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Ariel, for invite me to your podcast. And of course, let's go!

I love it. There he is. The Pride of Poland, Mateus Gamerut, who is very fired up. You can feel the excitement. You can feel the energy. I think this is a big opportunity. And Fizia v. Olvera was a great fight. This is a great win as well. Look, I'm excited that a guy like Gamrod is getting the opportunity because it seemed like he had been searching for it. And he's had opportunities before. You know, he had the fight against Dan Hooker, lost that fight via split decision. That was a major setback. It seemed like he was well on his way. Has the win over Fiziev. injury, I get it, has the win over RDA, Jalen Turner, has the win over Armin Terukian,

has the wins over Stevens and Diego Faheda, Carlos Diego Faheda. So he's been doing his thing. He's coming off the hard fought, unanimous decision win over Ludovid Klein. That was back in May, you may recall, and now here he is getting this opportunity. He was supposed to fight Nassim Sarikov. I believe it was on the November 8th card. We have since found out that the November 8th card is going to be headlined by Randy Brown versus Gabriel Bonfin the

November 1st card, David O'Nama and Steve Garcia. So those will be two Apex cards back to back, but we are getting some good ones. Obviously, this weekend, UFC 320 following week will be that one. Shortly thereafter, you'll have the

Vancouver card the following week and then Abu Dhabi. That's a good four-card stretch. and then a couple of weeks after those, you know, you'll get the MSG card with the apex cards sandwiched in between. All right. Still to come, still, you know, a litany of guests. Four more guests, we have our fifth coming up in a matter of seconds here. And he is someone that I've been admiring and respecting from afar and someone that I've wanted to have on the program. And this seems like a, I think a great time to do so. Because as I said at the top

of the show, we have been talking a lot about his team. We have been talking a lot about the state of his team. We've talked to a lot of the members of the team, but we haven't talked to the man who put the whole team together. And the team that I'm talking about, of course, the fighting nerds very much in the news over the past two years. Last year, getting all the praise in the world, team of the year, all this stuff and more. And as things go with every single team in MMA, there are highs and there are lows. And one could say right now this is a bit of a tough stretch for them. But they don't seem to be the type to cower or hide away from, you know, shy away from any of it. And, you know, you're just a couple of wins away from everyone forgetting

about it all. I'm talking about Pablo Sukupria, who I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly. Let me ask him now on the program if I'm doing so. He's the alchemist and he's kind enough to join us, the head coach and founder of the fighting nerds. Pablo, thank you so much for the time. It's great to have you on the show. Am I pronouncing your name correctly? Sucupira Sucupira Yes Okay

Pablo Sucupira Close enough Sounds good Okay all right Thank you so much Great to have you on the show I really appreciate it And I know there's been a lot going on

In your life and the team And also congratulations on becoming a father I saw you You recently welcomed the baby into this world So congratulations on that too Yeah Beautiful Is that your first?

Yeah, it's my first baby. Really proud of that. And in the middle of so many wars, I think this is still the most important thing in the year. Of course. Why do they call you, by the way, Pablo, the alchemist? Where did this name come from? Man, actually it's a nickname that I gave to myself. I like a lot of the alchemycy because it was a guy that in the beginning was like a magician, like a magician, like do some eternal life. And then if the years come through, he started to be like a scientist. You know, he changed himself to keep existing. and I like the way the alchemy works. So I think I make a blend with a lot of motions

to create a performance. And then I started to think, hey, maybe I'm kind of an alchemist. So I like this nickname. Yes, I think it's a great one. And it speaks to your background in fighting. You used to be a boxer, right? Yes.

Did you ever compete in MMA? No. Okay. And you had five pro fights? I had five pro boxing fights, and I have like 30 Muay Thai fights. Okay. I started as a Muay Thai fighter. And then when did you retire from fighting?

2009. I was fighting Muay Thai yet, and I got a fight that I was supposed to win that fight and then go to a title eliminator outside. But I wasn't training well, I was having an athlete life. And I got knocked out in the second round. I wasn't expecting that. And for me, it was like a shock, you know. I said, what a fuck?

And I always saw the martial art as a tool to be the best in the world in something, you know. I want to prove that I could be the best in the world in some area. And I thought being a fighter was that too. In 2009, I got knocked out 29 years. And I thought, man, I would never be a world champion fighting. But I still young. If I move to as a coach, I think I can reach that. And from 2009, I stopped fighting and just focused on being a coach.

I opened my first gym. And now I'm closer than I was fighting. I love that. start the fighting nerds when did that start man my gym was called the combat club so i had this gym and and the name man i said this name doesn't mean anything you know combat club there's a lot of gyms with the same name and i've been bully a lot when i was young in my school days and i started to braw because of that my my fighting days started like fighting bullies and and i was always like, I studied a lot and there was Kayu Borhalio, my first M.M.A. athlete that I started to

train. And he was like a chemistry teacher and fits well for him also. And I started to think, man, we are kind of nerds, you know, we study a lot. We are not bad guys. We don't like to braw. And, and I thought, man, we are kind of nerd, fighting nerds, you know. And I like this name and I think the rest is history. And what year was that when you decided to adopt that moniker? The rebranding, I think, was

2018, 2018, 17, something like that. And so Kyle was the first and then you start to add Carlos Prachas, John Silva, Mauricio Huffy. Yeah. Well, I think the

burst of our team was in the lockdown. you know when everybody needs to stay at home and we are a team of six fighters the only well-known was caiu bohali but a lot of promises and i talked to the guys say hey guys we're supposed to be at home those those three months but uh i remember the story of the lion's den i don't know i don't know if you heard about that course the lion's den when she came shamrock lost to hoist grace and he say, hey, we are not training well. And he put all those guys in a house, I think in Colorado for

six months. And everybody was there just training. No, they didn't see his families. And I thought, man, we can't do the same now. We are in lockdown. Nobody can do anything. Let's lock ourselves in the gym and just train. And I think that was the bonny of the fighting nerds because then we attacked as a team and we started to train together. And I think from then we started to see some people. Back in the days, we just had Cayo and Ruffy from the UFC. But we were a team of six people. By the end of the lockdown, we were a team of 20 people. So we really grow in this time of the history. And so it culminates with last year. You guys have incredible success. incredible victories, performances, you win awards, team, gym of the year.

As you're experiencing all this and then as the year is culminating, are you thinking to yourself, wow, I can't believe how all this is working. I can't believe all the good fortune, all the good luck, all the good results that we are having. How are you processing all this as 2024 is coming to an end? Man, I think we were reaching our dream so bad. And I was thinking, man, I can't even taste. our, those good things, you know, because there's so many fights together, we like, we got

2024, I think was 26 fights, 22 wins, you know, in the UFC. It was so much hype and so much things we were conquering. And I think I couldn't enjoy the way I should. And then after 2024 ends, we knew that we were. we're going to have a really hard 2025. I was expecting that because the expectation of our team was so high, so high, that would be really hard to reach that, you know? So I was already expecting a really hard in 2025.

And so it has become a little bit harder, right? There's been great moments like Carlos in Chicago, but some tough moments like this past, you know, event in, in PASN. Paris and on even Carlos' fight against Ian Gary. And now you have to listen to everyone talking about the fall of the fighting nerds, the death of, and you see people celebrating. How have you been dealing with all of this?

You as the man who put it together as the coach, the founder, the leader of the team, how have you been dealing with the recent tough times, if you will? Man, I think the size of the people talking trash talk is the same size. of the compliments we had before. So I thought we had too much compliments before we reached our belt, you know. I think we got too much high. So I thought, man, when we lose,

you're going to be huge also because people are talking too much of ourselves. And mostly, I think this year it's the end of the fairy tale. We got like almost a fairy tale when everything was going so well. And now we're going to start a documentary. So now it's going to start a real, a solid story, you know,

with defeats, wins, some mistakes. And I believe that you're going to reach the top. I believe we're going to make some champions. And more than that, you're going to make in a different way. I think we present today a world a kind of different way of fighting. People want to see their fighting nerds. even people who want to see us being defeated, but people want to see our fighters fight

because we know the game, we know what the UFC expect from us, we know what the funds expect from MMA, and I think we are developing something new, and we just doesn't reach the top yet, and people are even expecting that to celebrate or expecting our fault to say bad things. But one thing is for sure

People want to see us fighting That is 100% true That's a very sort of mature And level-headed response and approach To this obstacle Do the fighters feel the same Are you sensing the same from them

Or are you feeling like you have to pick them up Are you feeling like the morale is down right now And I think Carlos had a good recovery from his defeat I couldn't speak so much with Ruffy yet. He has some issues. And Kyle still, we still have to talk more. Gene is back in the gym already.

Kyle had some trainings with us also. I think the most important thing is to see if they are even more hungry than they were. Because the only way that we won't reach the top if we give up, you know, because I think we have a good material, I think we have a good mindset, and I won't give up any time yet.

I will reach the top. And I think the athletes think the same idea. So I think now it's to put the feet on the ground, talk a little bit less, and regroup, you know. I think the most important thing for me as a head coach, is to keep the team together as a group as the same way we've been climbing.

And I think now most important than see the mistakes and what we have to develop as a technique is to keep our team together as a group, as a family, and I'm focused on that. But anyway, I can see that Cayo, Jean, Rufi and Carlos, they want to evolve, you know. They are not happy with the situation.

They want to evolve and to prove that they can do better than that. And I'm 100% with them, you know. I think we can, together, we can prove that what we did is championship material. Because we put on a show, we got a lot of bonds. But people still think, is that championship material? That's what we want to prove. Have you studied what other teams have gone through? You know, there's so many teams in MMA over the years

and there was a time where this team was the hottest team and then they have a tough time and everyone says, oh, they're finished and this team comes along. This is not unique to you guys. You know this, right? And so I'm just wondering if you looked at how other teams evolved and adapted when faced with these tough circumstances.

It's like I think what is different from our team is the rise was so fast. I was studying the teams, and usually they take 10 years to debut in the UFC and reach a title, 10 to 12 years. And we are two years in the UFC. Like, it's our third year since our debut, our first fighter debuted in the UFC. So it's like we are in our childhood in the UFC. Sometimes I feel like Michael Jackson, you know, like he was studying. young and being so lights on him.

And I think we had the same. I think we had a beginning of our career in the UFC was with so much expectation and so much hype that people forgot that we just started, you know, it's our third year in the UFC. We have a long, long way to go. And I hope we keep doing things fast. but I'm young, I'm 45, I want to be coaching for at least 20 years, so I know I have a long

way ahead of me, and I think the team the same. I understand that this might be a tough question to answer, but sometimes when you get all that success very quickly, one's head gets big. Did you sense that that was happening within the team, maybe even to yourself as well, and you feel like there has been a humbling process this year? Yes, I think so. I think we are living as champions before we were champions. So I think the hype and the media and all the sponsors and even the UFC was betting a lot on us.

So I think it's impossible that you can't, you know, go with the vibe. And now we had to step back a little bit. But I feel the ground is more solid now. you know. I thought we were in a crystal palace before. And now I feel that people know that we're going to lose some fights. People know that you're going to come back and win some fights. And with the losses and wins, I think we're going to be one of the top teams in the UFC. And that's what my goal is to be along with the top teams and do not just the number. but do in a different way. I think the most valuable thing that I did is the mindset of the fire. How do we see the fight? And I don't think this was proved yet.

I think we have a lot to prove about my mindset and my fighting view, you know. I think we can do even bigger things when this part is understandable, you know? Yes. When, you know, you talk about the state of the fighters, the main fighters, the main four, you didn't mention Maricio's having maybe a slower time. What did you mean by that when you talked about Maricio not quite there? No, no. It's not that slower times that he had already, before the fight happened, he had some

appointments, sponsor appointments, that helped to pay for the camp. So he needed to go to Australia. He was there. he had some family issues, some really serious family issues. Now he's coming back to solve them. And then I just didn't sit with him. Okay, okay. No to talk. But I think, man, I've been talking with him in the cell phone. And like Cairo and Jim, I seem them really strong, really wants to be back on track and prove that they were better than people were saying. Okay. What do you?

say to people who say the team has to evolve, and in particular with the wrestling, that there needs to be more of a wrestling presence, a wrestling focus, what is your response to that? Man, what can I say? We just lost two fights with people putting us on the ground. It's hard to say that we have a good wrestling. But I can say by the trainings we have, they have really, really good wrestling technique. Flavio Alvato, our grappling coach, I think he's really, really good.

But I think was the mindset. I think we got in the fights like almost knowing that we would win these fights before it happened, you know? I think our fight was too relaxed. And when you fight a striking

game more relaxed, we can do that. But when you're talking about grappling and wrestling, it would be really, really focus on that, really on point, you know. And I think Benoit Sandini and Diego Lops, they got our guys, like, get inside the fight. If you see Rufi and Jean, before they were taking down, they were getting inside the fight yet. Like I always say the first minute of the fight just to study the opponent. And I didn't feel our guys was doing that.

They were like, oh, we're going to go there and knock the guy out. We've been doing this for, imagine. Like those guys, they've been knocking a guy out for the last 11, 12 fights. Right. It's hard to tell them, hey, guys, watch out. This fight is going to be hard. We have to prepare. Because they were knocking everybody out.

Now it's easier for me to coach them. Because now we see the dangers of the fighting game. Now we have to be more focused. In a stranger way, I think my work is going to be easier now. Yes, no, I understand that for sure. What about not being too emotional, and in particular with John Silva? It seemed like maybe the emotions got in the way in the fight with Diego Lopez. That's something that you would like to work on.

I think so. I think the trash talk can't be inside our heads. What I felt that the trash talking, we are doing, made more effective. affecting ourselves than the other guys. So, man, Gene is the happiest guy I ever seen inside the Octagon. Even in Diego Slop's fight, he was smiling and really happy inside the cage. But this happiness made him less focus on the fight, you know. So I think now it's time to low down a little bit, the emotion, even the feelings,

even the good feelings, the bad feelings, and be a little bit more robotic, you know. we have some steps, some steps, we have some strategic steps that you have to follow, and we were missing that. So, man, I think we're going to change a lot of points, techniques, points, emotions points, strategic points, even mediatic points, I think we got too big, you know, before we were really big, so I think it was a good step back. We were needing that. I am very excited about the comeback. I think you have the right mindset, the right approach. I have no doubt that this team is going to be back to where it was last year. I think anyone who is counting you guys out,

your team is too talented and you appear, this is my first time speaking to you like this, but you appear to be too smart to allow just a few losses. People make a big deal about a loss, and then you come back. Look at Carlos. He loses to Ian Gary, and then he wins, and then everyone forgets about it so it's a very fickle sport i did want to ask you pablo i saw on social media you were at the spot and fight night event did you see the brawl were you there for the brawl and what happened to vandalea i saw you there on social media yes brother what the hell tell us what happened from your perspective i was really close from the ring and man it was a a hot fight they were trash-talking them before the fight

and even in the ring they were talking with each other during the fight and I think just like the fighting nerds the problem wasn't the fighters the problem was the team, the coaches that were behind them especially because a lot of fighters as coaches and I think they got too heated with the trash talking and if you see the fight beginning

both fighters was trying to count down the guys and I don't know why I think we are seeing a lot of teams including my team participating too much of the trash talking and the brawl I think this is an athlete part you know I don't think the coaches and the team should be involved with that you know I have to protect my fighter but I I think when the lights go on, it should be the fighter on the lights, not the team, you know. So, man, it was a really good fight. The event was, I think the best, the bigger event we ever had in Brazil, in a boxing event, was, man, perfect. I have to appreciate what the brand was doing.

But the end was not a good end, but, man, things like that happen in the first. fighting game. It won't be the last time. I have heard, I have a good friend named Guillermo Cruz, who works for MMAfighting.com, the Brazilian beast.com, and he reported that this was a very high-profile event on global, and the attention has not been good and that it could potentially hurt mixed martial arts in Brazil. Are you feeling any of that? Has this become such a big story that there's a potential blowback on MMA in the country? I hope not. I hope not.

I know that the event and the brand got a lot of attention, a lot, but wasn't the best attention I think they were expecting. But I think they have a good media team. They will drive this to make, I think we're going to have at least one more event like that. And the most important things, the next event, we do everything right. And the people inside the event understand how important is this. for the Brazilian sport. I was there, I was, man, amazed with everything.

And I hope, I really hope people understand that and think not just in themselves, but in the whole country, because we need that. Our sport need that. Yes, of course, with the great history of fighting in Brazil. With regards to your team and the main four fighters that we've been speaking of,

do you think any of them are going to fight again this year? I think so. I think Gene might fight in December. Kyle was trying to fight a fine in December also. Actually, it was really kind of hard to find openings for our guys. I think after those defeats, it's going to be easier. But I think... And Carlos, obviously, he gets Leon.

We'll fight. We have two guys fighting in Container Series. Today? Yeah. The main event and the co-man event is fighting NERD. Are you there? Are you in Vegas? No, no, I'm San Paolo. I'm preparing the guys from UFC Rio. Okay.

But Caio Bohalio Borhali is there. Caio Borhali is coaching them. Okay. And you have Carlos, obviously, fighting Leon Edwards. Man, one thing I would like to tell people, we are not just those four guys. Sure, sure. We are almost 50 fighters, 50 pro fighters fighting there. We are already 12 guys in UFC. Imagine that in two years and a half, we are 12 guys. fighting UFC. We had this year

three contender fighters. We already had one contract winner and now today two more guys. So the team is much bigger than those five, four guys. Those four guys, they are like the best we have, of course, but we have a lot of guys coming, we're going to see a lot of

new names from our team. And one thing I realized with all those four guys. We develop a game that it's a show. Everybody wants to see. But when you reach the title Eliminator, all the four guys reach that point and come back. So now it's time to move a little pieces

to burst onto the title contender, you know? So you understand that point. We have a lot of fighters coming, and we have those four guys that we're going to move some pieces, and I'm sure they're going to reach the title, fights, And then we're going to tell another story about that. And I did also see Alex Pereira came by the gym. Yeah.

What was that like? Man, look how funny. I've been training with Alex Pereira since he was fighting kickboxing before the glory days. When he was fighting in Brazil, when I was a boxer, I had a heavyweight boxer, Iggyz, a Brazilian champion. and they used to spar like eight rounds, 10 rounds, and it was like a fight. Alex used to say that the only place he could really spar was with us. So I helped him before the FC, and after the FC, he came back and sometimes he did some training with us.

I like to talk with him a lot. I admire him. I think he's one of the best martial artists I ever seen my life. It's always a good talk. And every time he's in San Paolo, he reached me, hey, can I pass to, can I go there? And so, of course, man, our team is like a lab, you know, a laboratory. So everybody who respect the sports and knows how to train can go there. And if you are a UFC fighter and wants to do some training there, you are welcome.

And I would like to change this way that you only can train in your. our team. Pablo, I have to say a real pleasure to have you on the show. Congratulations on all your success. Amazing stuff. I have no doubt that the ball will start rolling in your favor. Once again, you have a lot of great fighters. Good luck to the team tonight.

Good luck next week in Rio, Madison Square Garden, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you so much for coming on. Really great to have you, and I look forward to our next chat. Thank you, Ariel. I've been watching you for a while. was always dreaming about being here and I hope to one day being in your set and talking about a belt

anytime my friend I look forward to that as well thank you so much oh brigado Pablo Sukupira yeah brother of nothing my brother de nada my brother there he is

Pablo Sukupira the head coach and founder of the fighting nerds really great chat love coaches like him love the insight you know everyone's going to react to a few losses in a row but as he said over 50 fighters and 12 or so in the UFC couple on contender series tonight that number could grow by the end of the evening so a lot to be excited about if you are a member of the team and if you're a

fan of the team and you're a fan of those guys and it's hard not to be a fan of those guys if I'm being honest all right let us turn our attention now to UFC 320 one of the interesting fights, one of the fights that I think a lot of people are looking forward to, and fighters that a lot of people are looking forward to seeing, is Jusang Yun, aka Zombie Jr., Jusang Yu, I should say, of South Korea, who made his UFC debut back in June, right across the river in Newark, UFC 316, had a tremendous win. The win, to be exact, was like 30, what was it, 28 seconds. I don't want to rob him of a couple of seconds. 28-second, a blistering debut.

We won via left hook knockout in the very first round, got his shot into the UFC via the Dana White looking for a fight show back in December, a prodigy of the great Korean zombie himself, Chan Sung Jung. A lot of people are very excited about this young man, a perfect 9-0, and he returns to action this Saturday at UFC 320 at T-Mobile Arena against Brazil's Daniel Santos. is kind enough to join us right now, so let us say hello to Zhu Sang-U. There he is right here now on the program, and I do believe he is having some help with the translation. Hello, Ju-Sang-U, thank you so much for coming on the show. Hello.

You have someone helping you with the translation, or you speak English? I'm right here next to him. Okay, okay. I thought maybe he learned English over the last couple of days. That would have been very exciting. He's been learning very passionately. Okay. Do you understand English? Okay, so you're coming a long way. I like that. Well, congratulations on all your success. And look, a year ago, this time you weren't in the UFC, you had your debut in June, and now your second fight on a big show. Can you describe what this past year, what 2025, the last nine months since you got your opportunity to fight in the UFC, what it has been like for you? So, you've been a lot of such-hue. Because, one year just one year before, you know, U.S.C.

signed to sign-dezs not yet. But, now, now, now, the second year ago, now, now two-by-year-old, and now, 20-year-old, just now, the year ago, how much. Well, what, there is,

like, always, like, this big, and a big day, and a game, and a game, I've,

my own time to try and I've got to be honest I don't see things differently because small or big every fight is an important fight and I put all my devotion into that fight so it is it is big UFC is big but my mindset hasn't changed I love and respect that I do see you getting some more attention I know a lot of the fans in South Korea follow you and like you very much I even saw you on the the GQ in South Korea having a nice photo shoot there. And so these things, these things don't affect you at all. It doesn't make you feel like you're on top of the world?

People have many of the world. I've got to see what I've got to give you, I'm going to have, I'm going to have, I'm just thinking of, I don't think of that I don't think that, I think that I think

that I think that, First, my own-up, and I'm going to be the dream first, these are always, uh, and when you're going to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to take so much it's going to be able to

I don't feel different. I'm only able to take so much love from everyone, do these photo shoots and whatnot, only because I'm fighting and I'm focusing on my fights. So if these things are secondary, If it becomes a hindrance to my fight, I will not do these. I will only participate in such actions after I focus on my fights. I was looking at your record and I saw that you fought in amateur bouts up until 2018.

And then there's a three-year gap and then you made your pro debut in 2021. What did you do between 2018 and 2021? Or was it just because perhaps I was thinking maybe the pandemic, there were less opportunities? I'm not sure. You tell me, what was the reason for the three-year? gap in activity. So, 18-year-gum-year-gown game and there was a break in,

and then 21st again again again again in the three-long- what had been what was in the time? Now, now,

there was at a good time, there was good case, so, again, the time in

the three years, So, in 2018, I put a stop to my fighting. I almost quit, but around 2021, a good opportunity came, and that's how I started back. Why did you almost quit? Why did you almost quit? Uh, uh, It was a lot of

And it was very difficult And these These are all kinds of This is my way That's not that It was a mixture of a lot of hardships I felt so much pressure on my shoulders I had a hard time getting on by daily lives

So with all these combined I thought maybe this isn't the right road for me Maybe I should look for something else And what would you have done? What would you have done? would that something else be, or would it have been? Then I mean, that other thing, what would it have been? Maybe just an ordinary office worker, like everyone else.

Wow. And who maybe convinced you, motivated you to actually stick with this GoPro and, you know, commence your pro-career. Then here, come to end up but then who had to back to

move to give to make make that the time at the time

and and see that again again I think I was I think

I'm I think I'm I've been watching a lot of fights from Connor McGregor and Korean Zombie. And every time I watched the fight, you know, something burned in my heart. So I've been thinking, okay, this is a dream I really want to go for. This is my road.

This is what my life is devoted for. And that's how I started back again. And at that point, did you not know Korean Zombie? Had you never met him before? That time, not even, just, just, you know, to the country. Yeah, that before, I've never met him wasn't. Just as a personer as well.

Until then, I've only known him as a fighter, you know, who I watched online or through a TV. I've never met him in person. Wow. When did you meet him, and what were the circumstances around it? Oh, yeah, in the Korean Zombie Jetskanehye's second. So, I've been fighting in other Korean tournaments, but I've seen him as cornermen for other fighters. But then he has his own promotion, ZFN. And I participated in the first ZFN, and that's how I really got to know him.

Okay. And how would you describe your relationship with him now? I don't know how much to explain to him. I don't know what he thinks of me, but I don't know what he thinks of me, but to me, for me, I think we're in really good terms. I feel really close to him. Before the fight or after fight, he gives me advice, and that

helps me a lot. I saw him say that he woke up early to watch your debut. He was very emotional. I've seen him do interviews about you, and so it must be amazing to have that kind of support. Is he going to be in Las Vegas for this fight on Saturday?

He said, when Johnsonson came up and came up and talked about and the interview too many times, you know? This time in Las Vegas game when he was going to? Oh, well, I was going to go. And then, you're going to, the Cusso-Ming year to get off, because it was getting to. He was planning to, but right now in Korea, it's Chusok, which is the Korean version of Thanksgiving. And people are book flights.

like crazy, so he couldn't get a ticket to Vegas, so he will not be coming. I'm sorry to hear that. I also understand, and can you clear this up for me, did you used to train with Deng Yong Kim, the stun gun, and now don't train with them? And I understand this is a big story in South Korea. Could you explain what happened there between you and Stungun? Then, if you know, Kim Dongyunson and I've done it, we know that's a lot of and this is a big issue in, but it's a little bit of the story can't help us.

I'm very much, I can't even think of it, but this is, this, what, this is a person thing is, it's not going to be, so, but I think it's, well, we also, we also, we also, we're going to be. Kim Doynghianne too also I think that it really is a sensitive issue so I cannot give you a full detailed

story but you know when two groups or two people go wrong it's never one person's fault it's always both groups you know having hard feelings towards each other and I think we're at that stage so yeah okay

are you hopeful that you'll be able to get over that stage and have some kind of relationship again in the future? Is that something you would like? So he's not really so he's going to be able to and be that kind of hope or not.

No, he's not, I'm just like. So he's not really optimistic about the relationship status, but he thinks that they should do well on their own separate ways.

Okay. And is this something that you don't like talking about? Are you uncomfortable talking about this? Because it's too fresh still? This is a little bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of it. No, it's been for a three, four years, so it's been

almost three, four years now, so it doesn't really feel like anything. Okay. Well, now you seem to be in a good place. You seem to be, you know, thriving, and you got the opportunity coming off of the show that you were on in December, the Dana White looking for a fight.

Did you know that he was going to be watching that event and perhaps picking someone to bring to the UFC? Did someone tell you this beforehand? 12-year-FN-Fews to fight, Dana-White-Wighter was, you know, that he was going to be before going to be and then-dei-na-goer-goer-conce, and then did not?

I know, but I know, but, actually, that know, and know, or not all the game in the life is a very important game, so, just that's more than, it's more than that, I don't even think. I knew about Dana watching, and that also that he's going to be picking a fighter for UFC. But like I said before, you know, I put in all my effort into a fight, so it didn't really change anything. A fight is a fight to me and that's all I really care about. That didn't make you more nervous or anxious or anything like that.

More pressure? I mean, I don't know, just, I'm going to fight, I'm excited, I'm going to give you to show you that's going to think about it.

Not at all, it didn't put pressure on me. I was excited to go in the cage and show everyone the hard work I put in all the time. For your debut to end the way in which it did, and you've had some quick finishes. finishes in your career 32 seconds, a mid-15 seconds, to end like that in your UFC debut 28 seconds. Can you describe the emotions that you felt in Newark that night?

Now, you know, there's a bit of care of years. 32-1-15-chrome, and UFC's in 28-choccurr had. That's the moment? So, that feeling that moment. But I don't really go to make a quick K.O. I don't ever ever

to find out of how much it's a little to win think that always always got that was really

ended up I don't really go for chaos. All the chaos I've had was when I

thought that I would plan this game out strategically go to the decision and win

diligently but those were the games where I had the fastest chaos.

Your nickname is Zombie Jr. So a lot of the fans refer to you, how do you feel about that nickname? This name is Zombie Jr., and many people are that about how do you think about? This thing, I've got, I've got a lot of

many questions, but I'm going to, Zombie Jr., I'm, to see, Chan-Sung-Permosting at the event, U.S. You're going to, I, in a lot-to-an-de-can-a-can-a-old and I gave you to my chance and I was just a few-time and then I said to my name name to change it.

But that then I think I'm a very much more than I'm going to so I'm going to be the first deba-division to end before I'm going to continue to go to So I received a lot of questions regarding this because people in Korea has been asking me about this. I put my name as zombie junior because Chan Song, Korean zombie, gave me an incredible opportunity, once in a lifetime opportunity to get into UFC. And Chan Song actually told me that use my ring name a couple of times and, you know, get your own.

But I told Chan Song that I will get him the title belt and changing my ring name in midway doesn't mean anything. So I'm hoping to use his ring name until I get my championship belt. Wow, wow, and you want to present that to him as a thank you. I love that. Do you also walk out to the Cranberry song, Zombie? Yeah. Ah, this is amazing, this is incredible. And how long have you been doing that for?

That walkout song with that for. Since my UFC debut. Okay, so this will be the second time. Correct. Your opponent, Daniel Santos, has a win over a fellow South Korean fighter. He was supposed to fight Duhu Choi. Why do you think they keep booking him against South Korean fighters? What's going on here?

Daniel Santos was in the before game at his time. Originally, Chethoho's son's with him. Now, the dukeye's opponent to, why stop him against him against him to fight against him? Chen Song he said, he said, he said, so he's going to be able to be it. It's not going to be it. This is my personal opinion. But I think Chan Song may have had some role,

because when Doho Choice was canceled, a belt was canceled. Korean zombie asked me if I wanted to participate in that fight, and that's how it went. So I don't think really, really, UFC really wanted to put Daniel Santos against Koreans next Koreans one after another. I think that's how it happened just naturally. Okay, that would make sense. And he seems to be very much in your favor.

In fact, he even reached out to me asking if you could come on the show. He seems to be very excited about your career and very supportive. So I'm sure that that means a lot as well. Can I ask, speaking of messaging and Instagram, you have two Instagram pages. Why is that? Why do you have two different ones? Instaigate. Instagram is two different ones. One is my personal account.

One is my personal, one is, one is, like, together with a company with kind of two Instagram accounts. One being my personal,

private account. And the one you're showing on the screen is actually managed by my management my company so we would often do a co-working post together but the one with more followers is my personal account okay okay i'm glad that we were wondering about that so i'm glad that we were able to clear it up it says my own hero why my own hero you why my own hero why my own hero I mean, like I said, like I was in the team in

and when I was, when I was going to, once, you know, like, to go and then, just, just, just, just getting to get and not in a time, so it's hard. But, or, if you've been, just, just, you're just, my hero is not, that's the way that means, that's really, and it was,

that it was. So, previously, I belonged to a team, but after I left the team, I wondered around multiple gyms, you know, training alone and with training with people whom I ever could find. And I think that's how life is. You're your own hero and you have to, you know, save yourself. And that's how life works. Wow.

You used to be my walkout song, but now it has changed. Sure, sure. I love how introspective you are, how thoughtful you are. These are really great answers. So much respect to you. I think that's a deep deep in the very deep

He's saying that he is naturally deep in his thoughts I like that I like that Could I ask you one last thing It's maybe a silly question But I have an eight-year-old daughter

And her favorite thing in the world Is a movie called K-pop Demon Hunters Do you know what this is Is this big in South Korea as well Or is it just us Americans that watch it here There's a daughter

There's a guy that guy's the one that's the most one that's the best yeah, it's a lot of, it's a lot of it, and it's a lot of, you know, so I don't know, I don't know, so I don't

walk, if you're going to go ahead, it's going to go ahead. To be honest, I don't really watch TV shows like that, but I keep hearing the song whenever I walk on the streets, so I'm pretty sure

it's really big in Korea as well. Oh, yes. You should check it out if you have some time in, uh, Las Vegas. I'm going up, up, but he's saying that he heard a song at the PI. Golden. Is it called Golden? Yes, golden. Or the soda pop one? There's all the songs. My daughter sings them all. She dresses like them. It's very nice. I like it. All right. You should check it out. Maybe next time you walk

out to that song, but I think zombie by the cranberries, much cooler, much cooler than that. What a pleasure to have you on the show, Zhu Sang. It's really amazing to see the next evolution of fighters coming out of South Korea, especially with Chen Sung-jeng involved. I wish you the best. Good luck this weekend.

And thank you so much for taking some time and congratulations on all the success so far in your career. Wow. You're not going to come up. And then, the future of the future of being able to be able to be that person that's been

so I'm working for I. I also today so I'm really thank you

thank you for having me it's been my biggest honor maybe see you next time yes sir

we look forward to it take care bye bye there he is Zhu sang you the zombie junior they call him

I was going to say the Korean zombie but he's not the Korean zombie junior or Korean zombie junior or Korean zombie

junior or part two. In any event, a great young man. And I say young man, I mean, he is 31. He started a little late, talked about that time off from the sport. The split was Stung Gun, Dung Young Kim, which I understand was a huge story, and maybe continues to be over in South Korea, but he is well on his way with the likes of Korean zombie by his side. Very easy to root for. I like this guy a lot, and he returned to action this Saturday against Daniel Santos, the UFC 320 prelims. All right, to come, Benny Safty, the critically acclaimed, very successful director of the smashing machine of uncut gems, among many others. Looking forward to talking to him at 240. We'll talk to Tom Nolan, who had a big win this past weekend at UFC Perth against Charlie Campbell, also Amir Khan,

the legendary boxer. Wanted to talk about some smashing machine as we get into our conversation with Benny Safdi. So again, in case you are unfamiliar, 2002 documentary about Mark Kerr, nicknamed the smashing machine, friend teammate of Mark Coleman, it's about their time in pride, but it's really about Kerr's trials and tribulations, very open, very honest, all the warts are on display, the drug use, the recreational drug use, the pain medication, the performance enhancing drugs, I mean, all of it is on display. It's pride in the late 90s, early 2000s, a great era, and this film comes out this Friday. It was announced in 2019 that Dwayne Johnson, the Rock, was going to be a part of it, that he had purchased the rights, I believe from a

documentarian in Bulgaria. I had heard that the plan at the time was to have Jean-Claude Van Damme play Mark Kerr way before the Rock involved. And obviously, the pandemic delayed things, and now here we are. And we saw the movie yesterday, the whole team did, and Pizzi saw the movie as well over in Dublin. So let me ask Pizzi, who just saw it, I think, today, and I saw he tweeted about it, what do you think? What's the review? I thought it was great, man. And I don't know if you're like me when it's something close to, to your heart, like MMA is. And any fan from that kind of generation, this documentary will mean a lot to you. So you kind of go in with some reservations and saying, I have a feeling I'm going to get, you know, nerdy about this and be all upset about

something or that they got wrong, but I thought it was absolutely brilliant. I think it's safe, safe to say it's the best MMA film I've ever seen. Nothing irked me while I was watching it. And really, I think fans of MMA and fans of the documentary will absolutely love what I thought the rock was brilliant. And shout out Ryan Bader as well. Ben Fox is kind of talking about, like, as MMA fans, we're going to be watching this saying, and oh, well, that's Ryan Bader.

I thought he did a really good job. Like, I mean, Coleman's a very stoic guy, especially in that documentary. I think he kind of nailed it. Couldn't agree more with your sentiment. We all loved that doc. We lived it. We saw it.

We watched it. We were fans back then. And my concern was the Rock is so larger than life and so recognizable. Would it feel like we were watching The Rock on Saturday Night Live play, you know, the hulking Mark Kerr? And midway through, you kind of forget,

especially I kept noting, especially when he wore a hat, he looked, Mark Kerr would always wear those hats with the curved brim and like the hat for some reason because it kind of covers the top of the face. I felt like he looked exactly like Marker and I've seen interviews with Dwayne. I want to talk to Benny about this where Benny said to him like, you're going to have to get bigger and puffier because that's what Mark Kerr was. And the Rock's a pretty big guy and he kind of nailed it from a physique standpoint. I know that Rick is a noted and celebrated cinephile. It's all he does is listen to

movie podcasts, reviews, things of that nature. So I'm very curious to hear his review. We didn't really talk about it afterwards because we wanted to keep it fresh for the program. What did you think, New York, Rick? I accept your designation as a Cinephile. Thank you for properly acknowledging my prowess in that regard. I really loved it. I really loved it. And I was starting pretty trepidiously, because of, as Petey said, right, like the smashing machine has, I have a fondness

for it and an association with it that I've built many years ago. But also, I just came in, like, you know, as I said, trepidiously, because I know the rock, right? Like, and I know Mark Kerr. And it's very hard for me to picture them as one because of how distinct they are in my mind, right? I grew up watching the rock wrestle. I've known him as a character for many years. And Mark was a staple of early MMA and so I was I was expecting to have a hard time envisioning the rock as Mark Kerr and not just looking at him and being like oh that's the rock but man he he knocked it out of the park like he was he was absolutely tremendous I think he will get some Oscar nomination for it I think the film itself will get some

Oscar nominations wouldn't be surprised if maybe there's a supporting as well it was a tremendous film. I was blown away. I had, that was my fear, right? But then on the other side of it, I had high expectations just because of what I think of Benny Safdi as a director and his other projects. I'm a big fan of everything he does. So I did think that was a great sign that he was associated with it. It came together. It was a fantastic film. It looked amazing. It honored MMA in a very significant way. Nothing was like hokey. It was all exactly as I would have hoped it would have been. The drama was fantastic. The things that they added around the edges of the documentary were fantastic. I could not have been more impressed, honestly. Safty, the winner of

the Silver Lion Award at the Venice International Film Festival. That was just earlier this month, which is an award given to, let me get this right, the best directing achievements in a feature film and yeah that's i do believe a pretty damn big honor for a director to receive we saw the videos of the rock and the whole cast and crew getting a 15 minute standing ovation after the uh the film premiered at the venice international film festival gc what did you think about the film yeah having not seen the documentary i i thoroughly enjoyed it everything that you guys just said i thought the rock killed it uh thought i only blunt killed it thought uh boss rootin may have stolen the show. I mean, he also killed it. He's just made for the camera. I love the way that it was

shot. It kind of felt like it was old school, but probably my favorite part was the attention to detail, like all the logos and everything, like when they're doing the press conferences, it's pride branded, the shorts and everything, like going back and looking at old pictures of Mark Kerr, like the shorts are accurate to the ones that he was wearing. I thought Usik was a great addition, having Bader in there as well. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. The only thing I'll push back. You guys say best in a movie by a mile. Yes. I like to watch. a lot. You liked it better than this. I don't know. I mean, a recency bias is. Yeah, no. I enjoyed Warrior. I don't think, I, I feel very confident saying I personally didn't enjoy it as much

as this. And you know why? Because to me, it was the combo of a couple things. And, and Warriors working at a disadvantage here, because Warrior is just a standalone film. But I am so happy that I watched the doc before and, and obviously was a fan of pride and know these guys. And so to try to see like, oh, they did this, like in the dock. And then little things, like when he's at the gym and he's wearing the Hofstra blue t-shirt, I love the fact that in the movie, he's wearing the Hofstra blue t-shirt. Like, I love the fact that they, if you didn't know anything about the doc, these are just minor details. If you did know anything about the dock and recently watched it, you would appreciate these little things. And like you said, these little

things about, you know, pride and Sakakibara and the press conferences and even tiny little details, guys. And I know Jordan watched the dock. I don't know if the... Have any of you rewatched the doc since watching the film?

I wanted to last night, but it got late, so hopefully today. I was told to wait until after the move. Again, I disagree. I disagree. But I felt like...

Wrong move. Okay, so there's like a scene at the beginning. I'm pretty sure all of y'all told me to do that. No, not me, not me. I was very steadfast. I...

Okay, so there's a scene at the beginning of the dock. The dock, when you watch it now, is almost put together like a home movie that is just sort of like spliced together. It's not like the documentary, it's not like the last dance with narration. It's just scene, seen, seen in the moment. And there's a moment in the beginning of the dock where they're explaining the new rules for Pride 7 that you can't

need the head of a grounded opponent. And a lot of the cuts in the dock are actually like not clean cuts. Like they're mid-answer. It's very interesting. And that scene starts with someone saying, sorry we're late, we apologize, let's get into the rules. Like, that's a nothing entry point. And in the movie, at that press conference where they're going in the rules, the lady starts off with, sorry, we're late, let's get into it. Like, it's even cut that way in the movie. Do you understand?

So I just, I don't know, I just loved those little details. I was a big mark for all of that. My favorite little detail in the documentary was the cauliflower is because at the start, he's in competition. Yeah. He has, is, his cauliflower ears are flushed. And then he goes to rehab. And when he's coming out or rehab, they're, they're fine.

They've been, wow. And then when he goes back into the gym, they're back again. Whoa. You notice that? Incredible. Incredible detail, yeah. Wow, wow, wow. This was on the rock in the movie? On the rock in the movie.

So they have seen, they kind of do a close-up on his ears early on. It's when he's there, he's fighting. He's actively training for a fight. Then he goes to rehab, and when he comes to. out they're gone. Wow. They're not gone, but they're just like it's inflamed. And then when he's back trained and they come back. So I thought that was really funny. It was really interesting watching the film with the team, but in particular, Frank, who was very critical of the sound mixing and the score and the music and whatnot. I mean, it was really great insight. It was

almost like analyzing a painting with Pablo Picasso, if I'm being honest. Frank, what did you think of the film? I really liked the movie. Yeah, I think it was a good expression. I could see where it was using expression of what though expression of what because to me like the the story is reality right so you're not going to have it fluffed up with like a huge climax and a great resolution or anything like that it's like this is the guy's life is what happened and a documentary was being used as like the the source material right so as you were saying they were sticking as true to that as they could so because of that it's like it's a love letter to mMA it's a love letter to mark perr himself and i think they did a great job of doing that and that's what i like

about indie films is they tend to just go for the emotion rather than a great story. Would you refer to this as an indie film? Oh, absolutely. Really? With the Rock and Hollywood Blockbuster? Yeah. I think just because it's 824. I mean, Bader was in a

but the first documentary. Wait, wait, why is it is Bader the debut, you know? The original is the determining factor? The original cost handground to make, like so they're trying to recapture what that looked like, I guess. Isn't that what Ben's article, like it was like a college student,

didn't know where this was going, did a whip around in a pub basically to pay for the thing, and then this is what they got, like, it's insane. I definitely spent 10K on the movie. I think that's what they got like to start going, like the smashing machine, the original documentary. I think that was like to get

off the ground money. Yeah. Also, Frank just saying there's no story here. I didn't say there was no story. I'm saying it's a real story. Harsh. Just some dude's life. Well, I think you're... I'm to tell them to Ben, when he comes on, I think you should get Frank to...

Yeah. Is he there? Is he listening to all of this? No, they're working on. I think so. They're framing a lot. Okay. Amazing. Amazing. Real quick. Before we move on, the front of... Like, if you seen something like a beautiful mind, right, about John Nash, like they took liberties to make it more entertaining and less realistic about that mathematician, right? So that's what I'm saying they did not do with the smashing machine. Like, they're staying as true to the source material as possible instead of...

I love the little details. Like, even on Benny's Twitter, he posted a picture of Dwayne as Mark Kerr, like a promotional poster from back then. Like these little things like you would see back in the day, I think we have it. This little stuff I'm such a huge fan of. I love fight posters. Like, look at this.

Just like the way it's photographed, the way Mark looks, or Dwayne Johnson in this regard. What about the bad boy gear, Ariel? The bad boy, full contact fighter. And the Nautica, that yellow Nautica. For some reason when I was like, oh, there's so many iconic things he wore during this thing. And they just nailed every single one of them.

The hair even was his hair. And then he went to a different look with the old. So good, man. I love the fact that Stephen Quadros, the fight professor, was there. Love the fact that Basruin obviously was involved. Alexander Usik was great as Igor Vof Chanchin. The early scene at a UFC event with the flags and all that stuff. and how, like, it looked like we were back at, you know, whatever that was.

UFC in 1998. Like, I love... And Satoshi Ishii as well, right? Satoshi Ishii, yes. Actually, there's a good few. Cyborg Abrayu, Yushinokami, Marcus Aurelio, James McSweeney, James Muntasuri, Ishi, as you said. And yes, shout out to Ryan Bader, who's never, I don't believe, acted before,

having to play a pretty big role. Like, he wasn't just like a bit player, by the way, in case, you know, you haven't seen the film yet. Like Ryan Bader is a very important part of this movie. He's in there in like emotional dramatic scenes with Emily Blunt. Ryan Bader. Yeah. Most the audience has not seen it. It hasn't come out yet. I went with a load of film critics today. Like I was just, I was a little calm because a guy, a film journalist called Andy McCarroll invited me. Wow. But afterwards, they were singing Ryan Bader's praise. They were like, well, was he acted before? Like, that was really impressive. Wow, wow, wow. What did they say about the movie, by the way? They really liked it.

They were worried about what I think of it. They were kind of like coming up to be like, What did you think? I was like, oh, really, I'm, I'm so happy. I saw. I think it's, I think it's brilliant. As I said to them, I don't think MMA's been represented in film this, this well ever. Like, this is the, this is the high water mark now. G.C., you were going to say something? Yeah, they're doing this really cool thing on Canal Street on Thursday and Friday. And like, you mentioned that Nautica pullover. You can buy the Nautica pullover. No, come on, J.C., you got to get it. A red shirt. Yeah, I might swing by this episode. What do you mean? You can buy it. You can get the Mark Coleman shirt. I'm trying to get it loaded.

it up, but like all of the stuff that they're wearing. Oh, that's it. Yeah. You see, boys in the back Thursday, yellow Nautica jumper. Yeah. No, after the show, that's when it will be open. I'm going with you. I want to get those stuff too. 305 Canal Street on Thursday. It's the one with the arcade, right?

Yeah, 15 plus arcade games, exclusive merge, props from the movie. Fuck. Yeah. I feel like it's going to be sold out by the time we get there. I want one of those stuff. That's the one. That's the piece. Everyone's out of yellow Nautica. God.

Nautica's sweater. I might have to get it on eBay after it's all sold out. out. Man, I love the, you know what, I don't even, truth be told, I don't even know how you can watch the doc. Like, we keep talking about the doc, like I'll be 100% honest, I looked for it, I found it on daily motion, like some guy uploaded. This is a mate, we're going if you just want to.

There's waste of fun. I'm just saying, one of these streamers, except you much. I'm surprised, I'm surprised that they, that 824 or somebody didn't get the rights to it and then, you know, put it somewhere. Put it on their platform, yeah. I wonder if Kim's video at Alamo Draft House has it, because they actually rent out VHS tapes for free, and if you don't have a VCR, they'll rent that LTE for $10.

Interesting. I don't even know if, yeah, I guess they would have the old ones. I would love to get that. I would love to get that. That would be amazing. But I do highly recommend it, whether it's before or after. I kind of like watching it before, but watch it after. This is bad advice.

Don't listen to that. This is terrible voice. You're going to ruin the whole thing. You know, dramatic part of it by just thinking about the documentary. and comparing. I'm going to go watch it tonight, the doc, tonight. Okay, can I ask, On Air Jordan? Because I think On Air Jordan watched it before.

Yeah. Did you think that was a mistake? Yeah, I thought it was a bit of a mistake. I was thinking of the documentary the whole time and what was accurate and what wasn't. Oh, I love doing that. But I will say, I will say, this isn't exactly apples to apples. Moneyball is one of my favorite movies. I actually read the book, one of the few books I've ever read in my life.

Yeah. And just watching that Since I lived through that I was like These people do not look like The actual players The people in the movie yesterday Shot for shot

Looked exactly the same It was actually incredible The work that they did To make everyone look spot on Even Bas Routin still look like Bos Rutan Yeah, no that's a good point Boss Ruten man

I was enamored with his performance Oh my gosh So good He's so good Well who will we get to play 35 year old Bas Routin How about 65? I know, right?

Hey, bald doesn't age, baby. It was a great movie for the bald brand. I mean, the rock out there, Mark Kerr. And Kerr looks better when he goes bald. Yeah. He is like... Mark Kerr. Mark Coleman now is bald.

Yeah, I mean, it is... Ishi. Very bold as in a way as well. Yeah. Usik was great. Not a lot of, you know, not a lot of dialogue there. Yeah, here's the... I thought the scene, though, with the knees and the heads were very good.

And then... Like that, that's seen. And then here's the merch that's available. Oh. Oh, look at that Nautica, my boy. I kind of want to get a Mark Coleman shirt, too. I want the whole thing. Where do I get that poster there?

Yeah, why don't they have the Igor Vochensian shirt? That was so cool as well, the one that Ucic had on him, with the blood all over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We should ask about that. Yeah. Oh, the Kerr shirt, the Coleman shirt, bottom left. That is amazing. Yeah, just get them sent over.

It'll be great, lads, thanks. You know, in an era where we're talking about, like, oversaturation and these apex cards, like, seeing some of those cards and these, like, one-night tournaments. It's hard not to be romantic about it all and nostalgic about it all. You know, watching it in the middle of the night. There's a moment where Quadro says, this is the first event airing in North America. And you're like, oh, my gosh, this is, this is it. This is when we all fell in love with it.

But like the shock of them, like, revealing the new rules, you know? Like, you can't knee them on the head when you're in a completely prone position. I was like, what? You can't head? But what is this? I mean, wow, they've really cleaned up this sport. unbelievable. Yeah.

What a great film. I think we all can't recommend it enough. We've been hearing about it. Literally since 2019, when The Rock was at that press conference prior to the BMF title fight between Jorge Mazvedal and Nate Diaz. I remember being there at Madison Square Garden

at the theater. He came out. He announced it. And then, of course, the pandemic hits. And then we all kind of forget about it. And then I think last year we started to hear, no, this is actually happening. And Ryan Bader is going to be involved.

and Alexander Usik's going to be involved and you start to see some photos of how Dwayne Johnson looks and you're like, holy shit, this is really happening. And then it finally comes out and then you see it and you're blown away. So let us talk more about it, about the man who put it all together, the director of the film, critically acclaimed,

just won the Silver Line at the Venice International Film Festival. What a great honor that is. And quite frankly, I'm honored to have him on the show and I'm a little bit nervous as well. This is a big freaking deal. I never hear from my brother when I put out the guest list for this program. He knows nothing about combat sports. I put out, Benny Safdi is going to be on the show.

He's like, holy shit, you got Benny Safdi on the show? We did, in fact, get him on the program and say, let us say hello right here and now to him, as he is kind enough to join us on this Tuesday afternoon. Hello, Benny. How are you? What's going on? What a pleasure to be here. Oh, man.

Thank you so much. It really means a lot. In fact, I feel like we actually have a lot in common. You're, I believe, of Syrian descent, a Syrian Jew. My name, Halwani. is of Syrian descent. My great-grandparents were from Syria, Jewish as well, New Yorker. So I feel like we have a lot.

In another life, maybe we're best friends. Yeah, you know, and it's like, I feel like it's the kind of thing, yeah, where there's a shared experience, you know, that comes to play just by having all that built-in history, you know? So I didn't know that about you. That's wild. Yes. And so I'm rooting for your success, and I'm so happy that you made this film.

And I don't know if you heard some of our talking before, but I saw it yesterday and truthfully was blown away and adored it. It means a lot. Coming from like your expertise, is that something I really wanted. I love, I love combat sports. I love boxing.

You know, I went to a UFC fight with my stepfather in 2002. And I really wanted it to be as authentic as possible. And I wanted it to feel like that's what it was like. And part of me was like, I wish I was there, you know? And so I wanted to make it feel like you were there by watching the movie, you know? So I had a shirt.

My wife got it for me. It was an early UFC shirt that says as real as it gets on the back. And that was my like my go-to for the whole movie. As you are making the film and you're feeling and you're so entrenched and you're feeling so strongly about it, you're probably wondering at some point, okay, how is this going to be received? now that you are starting to see the reviews come in, your winning awards, the ovation in Venice, shows like ours are talking about in glowing terms.

Does the pressure come off? Can you relax a little bit? Are you happy that you feel like you've actually done what you set out to do? It's interesting because like, well, first of all, am I like lagging or is that just me? No, no. You're perfect on our end. Okay, dude, I didn't want to, I just want to make sure I didn't like.

Oh, you're great. You know, like when you call into a show and you hear yourself Anyway, I'm sorry. Are you distracted right now? Are you distracted? I'm not distracted. I'm not distracted. But what I wanted to say there is there is no, the pressure doesn't really go away

because I really want, the reason I made the movie is I wanted it to connect with people. So every time it screens, I get nervous because I want people to respond to certain things. I want them to feel certain things in the moment. And what was really beautiful about, like, the response in Venice was I don't really expect people to, like, notice it. You know, you try to do certain things and then maybe it's going to happen and maybe it'll work. And when I got that response, it's like I'm looking out into the audience and it's like I'm having these like five second conversations with people just with my eyes where they're like clapping about the movie. but I could see that they really cared about what they had just went through

the experience of being in the mind of this guy because that's what I wanted to do and the fact that it connected was really beautiful but then again it's like I'll go to another screening and I'll be just as nervous yesterday we had the premiere and I was

I could barely eat before it and I think it's just because like there's a lot of me in that movie too you know I really I really felt like I connected with Mark in a very deep way and I wanted to tell his story and I wanted to be truthful to it and I love sports like I've been I did boxing for a lot and I've sparred with people when they ask you to spar you're like really me isn't it's like the best feeling in the

world when you get chosen to get your ass kicked you know which is such a strange thing and I remember just like that beautiful camaraderie amongst everybody in the boxing gym you I was over at, I would do it at Mendez. And then it closed in 2019. It reopened just uptown. But I got to know all these fighters and, you know, I got to talk to them. And they would, they would kind of really explain to me the things in their life. And I would tell them the things in my life.

You know, I told my coach, Moses, about my first son being born before I told anybody else. You know, you really get close. When you go down there, you just kind of disappear. And so I love the world. And it's so exciting to me, especially when like a big fight is going to happen and you get together with your friend and you watch it. And there was a fight. There was this, my, um, Raphael Vasquez is his name.

He's a boxer. And he won the Fedlatan title this night at the Resort World Casino in Queens. And he was my trainer. And I went out to support him. And he was going up against a guy called Leon Hurry Up More. And he was 30 and two. And at that point, I guess this was maybe towards the end of Rafi's potential boxing career. And nobody expected him to win.

And he hits this guy. I've never seen anything like it. He hits him and he just goes down like a board. And everybody in his corner, I'm with him and his family and friends. And we just jumped up. There's video of it somewhere. It just was an explosion. And it wasn't necessarily that he won that was so exciting.

It was that I was connected to the guy in there. And I felt that's the most incredible feeling in the world. And I wanted to do that with the movie, is put you in there with the person. So you feel what they're going through because they're dealing with a lot of other stuff in addition to fighting, you know? And I'm like when they get hit, it hurts even more when you're connected to the person, you know? Well, I think you have nailed that with this film 100%.

Can I ask, I remember being at the press conference when Dwayne Johnson announced that he was going to be doing it, 2019 November, Madison Square Garden Theater before a UFC event. At that point, are you attached to it? And if not, how do you come on board? So at that point, it was not. You know, I think at that point, Dwayne was just he wanted to, he knew he wanted to tell Mark's story. And then I met with him pretty quickly after that. And instantly, I was just like, whew, I love this.

And, you know, it's like I had made a documentary with my brother, Lenny Cook, about a sports figure in 2001, you know, when this documentary was made. And then there was another documentary that I was involved in called Telemarkers, which was the same time period. And so I really felt like I understood this part and time, and I wanted to go back there. And it was just like, I remember talking to Dwayne in 2019 and just really realizing. I know he could really destroy this role. And it wasn't until like later because like COVID happens and then other projects get in the way and it just kind of pushed it away. And I found the, the Nautica sweater. Wow.

You know, I have it right here. Oh my gosh. We were just talking about this. So this, here it is. The Nautic sweater. Wow. You know, I found, I found a version of it. Wow.

It was triple XL, but it had a blue striple across it. And I thought there was something really beautiful that Mark, that was his decision, his fashion decision. And I thought that was awesome. And I got that and I sent it to Dwayne with the idea of like, you know, whatever happens with this movie, if I'm involved, if I'm not, I really would love to. But I said, when you become Mark, put on this sweater before and maybe it'll help you get into his mind a little bit, you know. But he never got the sweater. But now it's great because it's like now I got to be created. I got it for myself, you know, but.

And those little details, by the way, as someone who watched the doc in 2002 and watch pride back there, like when we're watching it. By the way, here, look at this. That is it. That's the Brad Slater belt. That's the Brad Slater belt right there. Can you tell us that story? Brad Slater, of course, longtime agent for Dwayne Johnson, told me that he gifted you that

belt at the beginning of this. Yes. At the very beginning, he gave me that. And it was so meaningful to me because, like, A, it's really heavy, you know, and it's like, I've always wanted, I've always wanted a championship belt. You know, there's something about it because it's like, yeah, it's, it's he, so what, right before we started this process, really early on, he, we met had burgers, and he had that sitting on the table. And I just was like, wow. And then I came home with it. And then my like, youngest son who's sick.

he saw it. He said, oh, my God. And then he put it on. He was walking around with it. And it just does something. You know, it's just, it's great. It's also just like, the logo, everything about that line was just awesome, you know, like Ultiman, like all these, the graphics of that era were incredible, you know?

But just like having this thing, you know, just it's like, because it's like, deep down the everybody else, everybody always wants to be like in sports in some way just because like you idolize those people you know and so like when I sit down for something like this and do I get to go on your show and talk about it you know or do a round table with like Sports Illustrated it makes me feel like oh wow I'm kind of close yeah yeah no I totally understand there were I decided we were debating this before watching the film among my my team members here whether or not

we should watch the dock again before or watch the film and then watch the doc. I decided to watch it again to refresh my memory because I wanted to see how you decided to weave through it and honor it and then take your own kind of liberties. And I love the fact that I made that decision for this reason. And I wanted to ask you about this. The way the documentary is cut almost feels it's not like the last dance that you see today with, you know, there's interviews and it's all very nice and polished. It almost feels like a home video that's spliced together.

and even some of the cuts are not very clean like it's like mid answer and there's even for example one thing that I noticed that that struck me at the very beginning of of the documentary and the film there's that rules meeting where the the woman is explaining that you can't need the the head of the grounded opponent and it starts off with her apologizing for them being late like I'm sorry for keeping you and you even kept that dialogue in the film which is a total nothing like little part how did you decide to keep some of those little things as a nod to the doc and to you know, maybe clean it up a little bit. Well, yeah.

So that's, so I really, I love the documentary. And I actually just saw John Hyams yesterday. And it was like such an incredible thing because like, I wanted him to see this thing. Because like, it's funny that you mentioned those little moments because it's like those are the things that I couldn't believe actually happened, you know? And so what I could do is, oh, I could give that room. a more extreme backdrop. I could put it with this like in this place,

the crystal ballroom. I can make it a little bit bigger. You know, I could shoot it on 16 millimeter to kind of give it a different vibe, you know, because like you said, it was shot on, I think,

DV or digital. And that could, I wanted to expand a little bit because I loved what he documented. And that story could have been lost forever had it not been for him. And it's very meaningful to me that that exists. And I want to, honor that, like you said. But like those moments of true reality are what I needed to keep in

the movie because that's what kind of makes the performance that Dwayne gives, the performance that Emily gives, and Ryan, you know, I'm basically holding them up to the real thing. And I'm basically putting everything on the line saying like, all right, did I achieve it? Did I do it? Maybe. It's, there's no net at that point. And that's how I like to operate, you know. And, and so I, it's interesting because there are certain times in the documentary where he's talking to John, most likely. And I thought, you know, I should make him talking to dawn because what's really happening here is there's a disconnect between the two of them. And it's like, I know, how do you explain to, and it doesn't necessarily have to be with fighting, but how do you explain to the person who you're with and who you love, why you're doing.

what you do. You know, there's a song, the John Prime song, is how the hell can somebody go to work in the morning and come back in the evening and have nothing to say? And I think that's very important. So I took him trying to explain what it was and why he felt the way he did after he just got need in the head and at that point lost. He didn't know it was in no contest. And so I wanted to have him have that disconnect with Dawn. So I'm thinking about how to deepen certain things and broaden the feelings, you know, to connect with an audience in a way that is different, you know? And I also wanted at the very end, I wanted you to be hopeful. I wanted to feel really good about it because that documentary existed at that time. And it ended in that

time. And the movie doesn't. The movie is now. It's looking back 25 years, sometimes 30. and I wanted you to feel a certain way I wanted you feel good about life you know I wanted you to experience this movie in such a deep way but come out looking at the world just a little bit happier you know like you could be through a ton of ton of shit you know and just like

come out on the other side and isn't that isn't that great you know three central figures just quickly to your point sure I remember I was obsessed with finding that scooter. You know, there's a shot in a scooter. And I was just like, I'm going all in. We found, we need to build this thing.

They didn't, it's like, and in Japan, they don't have a lot of stuff specifically from that time period because everything is always new. Yeah. So they're like, why would we keep something from 1999, you know? So we bought that scooter and I, and the shot, it was almost like necromancing. Bringing something to back from the dead, you know, bring it back to life. Because when that happened, and I saw Maseo, the cinematographer, filming that scooter, and it going off into the distance, I'm like, we're there. We did it. We went back to the time, you know?

Like any. And I heard actually what you said about the Pride broadcast. Yeah. And that was something that was really important to me was, I needed Stephen Quadros in this movie. Yep. You know, and there was a lot of conversation because he's a very unique announcer. He has his own style and I really

wanted him to be the voice because he was the voice back then and I ended up writing 10 pages because I realized I had this I could use him as the narrator for the movie you know so in when they're coming out I didn't want any commentary during the fights because I wanted the fights to feel

like you were actually there ringside so there's no cameras in the ring I stay on the outside and that's the point of view if you were there I'm going to give you the best seat in the house and to feel like what it's like. These things are fast, furious, violent, and you're just like, you're there for the ride. So I didn't want the announcers to come into play because also pride was very quiet so you could hear the corners talking and you could hear that and see the, see this

micro decisions change as it was going on. But I remember listening to the broadcast and watching these pride fights. And when he said, this is the first time a pride fight has ever been broadcast in North America, I thought, I need that to be. be in this movie because how awesome will it be in a theater in North America to people who maybe have never heard of Pride? To them, this is the first time a Pride broadcast is ever going to be broadcast, you know? So I thought that that was really special. I'm glad that you Oh, yeah. All the little details, the Hofstra shirt, full contact fighter, bad boy. I was transported back to that time, which is when I fell in love with the sport with Pride. We were exposed to it.

I know we're running out of time. I can speak to you for an hour here. I just wanted to ask if possible two more questions. And the first one was the three central figures, obviously, are Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, and Don, his girlfriend at the time, then wife. How involved are they on the set? Do you have them there all the time? Do you check in with them? How do you do that?

How do you balance that act? Yeah. So Mark came specifically also during the fights, you know, and he came and he taught the fighters and he talked to DJ about how to like do a take down fundamental. mentally, you know, because I wanted Dwayne to do a lot of this stuff. You know, I wanted to see him because I didn't want to cut away because I thought, I knew that that would take you out of the realism of the moment. So he's doing this stuff. He's getting punched. And you can only, you can't really fake that stuff. There's certain things you can. But there's a specific fight where he's, when he gets hit, he gets hit. And so Mark came, well, I wanted him to experience this, the recreation of the pride arena. And he talked to all the fighters because I thought that would be really special for, him to come as this like OG to come in and spread his knowledge. And all throughout the movie, I spoke to him. We talked to for two and a half hours at a time just because I wanted to get to know him.

And I felt it was really important to understand who he was. And I thought he needed to know who I am in order to make this, though. That scene was, I was wrecked after that because I know what it feels like to hold on to somebody to protect them for their dear life. And that's, it's not a nice feeling and it's very difficult. And when they did that, it was really, I saw it and I was just like, we got that. So we did that part of it in one time. And they, I said to them, if you guys end up on the floor, that would be great.

But I don't want to handstring you in any way. I want it to just happen. And so anyway. One take? That was one take when you say one time? That part in the bathroom when he's at the door, that was one take. Wow. The rest of the argument was different.

I structured actually how I shot. the fights, which was interesting. I looked at it as the same thing. You know, this is a different kind of fight. It's not, it's just this physical and demanding. So I shot it in sections, you know, and that was like how we would do the fights. And so I thought, oh, wouldn't it be cool to do that with an emotional argument? And then Emily spoke to Dawn and because she wanted to, again, be truthful to her experience. You know, we're not pulling any punches, but I wanted everybody who is, because they're still a lie. And that's very meaningful to me. And I want them to have this movie as a positive experience. I want them to look back. I don't want them to feel

used by it. I want them to really be proud of it and stand by the fact that they're standing up for what they felt. And yes, it might be messed up and complicated and toxic. But I want them to be okay with how it's being portrayed. And that's part of why I was in constant. the communication with them. And the fact that they can come to screenings and be as proud and happy, it really does. That's part of why I made this movie, you know, is I wanted to shine a light on, like, people like Coleman and people like Mark and, and Boz, like, who might not be as, like, celebrated in certain ways, but, like, they should be, you know, because they built something, like, what's what exists now came from somewhere. You know, there's a legacy.

there. And I just, I'm, I'm, I feel, I feel like that's necessary. But like with Dawn and Mark, I really wanted them to feel like emotionally I was being truthful. And that meant I had to like, get to know them. And when I showed them, I was really nervous because like, this, they, they live this life. And yes, things are changed and they're made broader and I'm, I'm doing things that are different, you know, but I want to get at what was really the truth there. I appreciate you saying that about the history of the sport because I don't feel like we celebrate.

MMA in particular does a horrible job of celebrate. The new fans don't know who these guys are and they should, unlike baseball and basketball. So thank you for saying that. What did you want to say, sorry? You had another question. Yes, I did have one last one. I just want to ask about standing outside the subway handing out flyers like you did many, many moons ago to be so accomplished, to be so successful now.

Look at this. This was a great thing that you posted online. Why do you feel the need to do this again? at this point in your career? Well, I still have it just in case I got to do it again. I love it. I love it. So the thing is, it's like, part of it is somebody showed me a picture of like, oh, look

at where you were and look at where you are now. It was a tweet of that. And they said, what's changed? And I thought to myself, I hope not a lot. You know, I kind of want, I'm the same person. And to prove that to myself and was just like, going to go back out there and I'm going to do this because can I can curse on this right sure sure who the fuck am I you know like I don't I don't have any shame I'm going to go out there I want

people to see this movie and I said say 24 pretty me a thousand flyers so I'm going to hand out every single one so I spoke to a thousand people that day and I went on the subway I went to every movie theater I was I did it and some people looked at me like I was crazy and they just just threw me off and I think it's important, you know, to not, to not, to feel that, you know, because like at the end of the day, it's like, I just want people to get out and see it. And it was really, I, I really relish talking to people and getting to have those conversations and standing out there and doing this was, was just, it was fun for me, you know, and it's, it was fun in the sense that I liked

when people looked at me like, get, get away from me. I don't want, I'm not interested. And then I'll be I made the movie and they're like, I don't care. And it's great. And so it's just, it's like, there is an element that like, I thrive on that kind of stuff. And I really just wanted to like let people know that like, hey, please go see my movie. This is meaningful to me. I care about it. And I care about it so much that I'm going to do this, you know?

I just, I really just, I'll hand out flyers. I got nothing else to do. I love that. There's a great lesson to be learned there. congratulations Benny sincerely I have always said that the smashing machine is the greatest MMA documentary of all time and now you have just made the greatest MMA film of all time and I don't think that there is a close second and that is sincere and I think the rest of my team agrees as well so congratulations that means because yeah coming from you that's like

that's huge man thank you and it's not recency bias truly is so congratulations enjoy all the success that comes with this and thank you so much for coming on the show. A huge, huge honor for us. My pleasure. This was great. And I hope I did justice to the realism of the fights. And I hope that when you go, when people who are fans in the sport go see it, that I did right by you.

So thank you. You should know that. October 3rd, out nationwide and around the world. And, of course, I should end by saying, go Nix. I think you're a big Nix fan like I am. Oh, my God. Yeah. So big here coming up for us.

I can't wait. I'm scared because it's like. I don't like going in as, like, a favorite. Yeah, yeah. We're underdogs all the time. Yes, always. So I don't want to get into that. I'm like, hey, don't even talk to me about that.

Thank you, Benny. All the best, too. Really appreciate it. Congratulations. Thank you. This was great. There he is. The great Benny Safte, the director of the smashing machine.

And, man, I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as I did. What a guy, what a character. What a personality. What a spirit. And really, I can't say this enough. If you are a longtime fan of the sport, you will adore the movie. If you're a newer fan, you will love and appreciate the movie. If you are not an MMA fan or combat sports fan, you're probably not listening to me right now.

But tell your significant others, tell them that this is worth their time, because it really was a wonderful film and a wonderful trip down memory lane. All right, let us speak to another legend in his own right, and he has a big night tomorrow in Nigeria, promoting, I do believe, his second event, a big boxing event in Nigeria. Our good friend Adio O'Dipo is there. We're talking to the great Amir Khan right now, who is kind of. enough to join us from all the way in Nigeria. Is he there? Yes, there he is. Hello, Amir.

How are you? How are you, brother? Long time. Yes. It's been forever. It has been forever, but I really appreciate you joining us. You're in Nigeria right now, correct? That's right.

Yeah, I'm in Nigeria now. We did the press conference yesterday. We did the way in today. And it's been a fantastic turnout. We're looking at the event tomorrow now to have around 50,000 to 20,000 people there. I mean, it's a fantastic show here in Nigeria. I mean, it's hard to explain how nice this place is. And the hospitality, the love that we're getting from the people,

has been nothing but amazing. So I'm really happy that what the team's done and the team that we have in Nigeria, how we've put this together, it's going to be an awesome event. So the event is entitled Chaos in the Ring, October 1st, which happens to be Nigeria's Independence Day. And you have sort of focused on this region on this part of the world as an untapped market, so to speak, right?

Because I think you've promoted an event there before. Why do you think people aren't going there and why are they making a mistake by not going to Africa? So, you know, Africa, in my opinion, it seems like it's the forgotten continent where no one's really going there for boxing. But there's so much amazing talent over here that needs to be showcased.

Now, if you look at the boxes around the world, like I need Joshua's and, you know, the African fighters, like Deonte Wilder, so many, and Atulma as well, you know, so many great fighters, but no one's touching this region. And I decided, I did an event in Ghana, not long ago, but two months ago.

And then I met some friends there and they said that, look, we want you to do the same show that you did in Ghana in Nigeria, because Nigeria is a massive city. Lagos is a massive city and they love boxing. So obviously we started talking and we saw the shows that they've already. already done before. The shows are amazing. There's so much entertainment there.

And we're going to mix it with entertainment and boxing at the same time. We've got, it's going to be live on the zone. I mean, there's a lot of sponsors that we had on the show that want to be on the show as well is fantastic. And, you know, the great names that we've got on there. Look, the main fight is going to be Brandon Glanton against Marcus Brown. Marcus Brown. That was there just a right in my head.

And Marcus Brown, obviously, this is a fight. where I think whoever wins this fight goes on to bigger and better things and if you think about it between the two they've got about 40 wins there's only five so six losses between the two

but it does look like an amazing fight styles make fights and also they've sparred with each other there's a lot of bad blood in this fight so we decided to if it ever happened out because these guys really really hate each other and at the press conference they kicked off so look I know it's going to be an

exciting fight and these guys are going to give it there all because none of them want to lose. I like it on a Wednesday. Not a lot of competition for you guys. So that's great as well for fans watching on television on DeZone. Could I ask, why are you getting into the promotional side of things? Like you said, your second event, you had a great one back in June. Why jump into this side? We've seen other fighters do it. Why is this right for you? I think it's great for me with the name I have. I mean, whenever we come to these type of countries, for example, we went to Ghana. We met the president, the president's children. They're fully supported us. So I get

right to the top. I mean, say in Nigeria, I'm supposed to meet the president today but maybe that's going to happen tomorrow morning of Nigeria. I mean, they give us the whole shabang. They tell us this and we want you, we know you as a great fighter you was back in the

day, but now going to promotion, they know what I'm capable of, what type of shows I'm going to put on. I mean, most of the cards, when I used to fight with Golden Boy or Al-Haman, I used to pick most of the undercar who I wanted on the show. So I kind of know about my boxing.

I know what sells. Who's going to sell? How are they going to put bombs on seats? And what fights are going to be exciting? So that's the reason I thought, you know what? Instead of me having this knowledge, I might have put it to test. And that's what I did.

I did my first couple of shows early. A couple in the UK and couple in Dubai. And then I thought, you know what? I need to get a team together now. So we went to Ghana. And Ghana was our first show, which went so well. And now Nigeria back to back. So I'm going to keep busy, man.

to do another show in, hopefully, Nigeria towards end of the year, and then probably want to do one in Dubai as well, towards end of the year as well. So I'm keeping myself busy. Look, as a fighter, as a retired fighter, I know the game inside out, and it's always good to get input from my retired fighter. I'll sometimes call, you know, these retired fighters like Lennox Lewis and other fighters and learn from them, what am I making any mistakes here? How can I become a better promoter?

How can I change a sport of boxing for these young fighters? and obviously I know what mistakes were made when I was a fighter so hopefully I don't want to make the same mistakes there the main thing is to pay the fighter as well and to treat them fairly and treat them good and look that includes like nice hotels making sure that they looked after it well

press conferences has to be the whole shabang you know what I mean and the way in and also not only that having a great television broadcasting team on board that way their skills are going to be showcased around the world that's why we've got the zone So look, at the moment, things are going really well.

I'm enjoying every little bit of it. And it's people like yourselves, Ariel, who are supporting me. You know, we're doing these interviews when people are getting to know more about what Amir Khan's doing now, going into the promotional game. Without you guys and the media and the press, this wouldn't be possible. You know what I mean? You lot make my work a little bit easier. Okay.

Well, I appreciate that. Could I ask, who do you think is doing it best right now as far as promotion in boxing? who maybe you're looking at you're trying to learn a little bit from is there someone that you think is doing best or do you think everyone's doing it wrong? No, no, no, they're all doing it. They're all doing a great job.

I mean, what Turkey Alashik is done to the sport of boxing bringing the best versus the best putting the biggest fights on. I mean, look, that first, I got a message from Turkey Alashir back in 2021 saying, Amir, I want to perform a heavyweight fight.

Now, I didn't understand what he meant. I said to him, well, I'm a lightweight. He said, no, no, no. Can you get me like Fury? And I got him Fury. I picked him the phone to Brown, Spencer Brown, and I said they don't want Tyson Fury, Saudi Arabia.

Tyson was in a low point of his career where he was thinking on probably retiring or not boxing again, but this kind of given that second life line and he's gone there and made tons of money and yeah, but look, the thing is now, I realize one thing, as a promoter,

see, I'm too honest as a person, I just pick up the phone and say, yeah, connect two dots together and I said, there you go, guys. whereas I got nothing out of it or I'd never even got any I'm not even a thank you so the thing is now I think being in the promotional game now doing contracts doing agreements with people and then making things happen and since I've been doing that things are happening a lot okay very interesting um I don't know if you've been following this story here in America

but there's uh Zoufa boxing starting with Dana White uh spearheading TKO how do you think they're going to do because they're the new kid on the block as well trying to make some waves. They just announced a new TV deal yesterday. What do you think of what you've been seeing out of them? Look, whenever Turkish is doing anything in boxing, he's doing it at the best and doing out the biggest. I mean, having someone like Dana White, who's proven how good of a promoter he is, especially in UFC and where he's taking UFC, I'm sure he can do the same with boxing. Boxing needs a new face. Boxing needs a face like Dana White, who's going to change the sport up and get more excitement and get more bums on seats. And also with Turkey, the best of

fighting the best. There's no way, there's no easy way in this game now. The best have to fight the best. If you say you're a world champion, prove it by fighting the best. There's no hiding in this game anymore. And that's what we see in UFC. And that's what Dana wants to do in boxing. So big respect to Turkey, to the ring, to everybody, because they have changed the sport of boxing. If you look at what's happened in the last probably five years of boxing, the best of back-to-back for each other. And this is something we never used to see. I mean, it never happened back in the day where you'll see two great heavyways because they don't want too much money

but Turkey's like put the money to a side I want the best to fight the pest you want big paychecks I'll give you the paychecks and you know what? He's proving it not only once but many times so you have to give that respect to Kirkkella Shake because of him this is happening and also now with this fight against

Terrence Crawford and Canello what a fight that was I mean it broke massive numbers you know what I mean it broke records I mean this was a fight that no one ever thought they were ever going to see two are the best fighting each other. Wow.

I mean, what Turkey did there and what he pulled off there was awesome. Were you surprised by the result? No, I wasn't, no. I knew that Crawford was going to win. You see, when I watched Crawford train back in Omaha, Nebraska, and when I was in Colorado Springs,

he came into my camp. He helped me out a little bit, but at the same time, I've seen him sparring some heavyweight guys. I've seen him wrestling some heavy, heavy big guys, and I thought, wow. So I asked him, I go, look, do you have like a wrestling background

he goes yeah we're like state champion so that showed to me that this guy is a solid strong person like no one can push him around no one can dictate no one like no one's going to put pressure on him where he's going to feel hurt because he knows how to control the ring

when it comes to box IQ like his IQ in boxing is probably the best I mean he knows what points you throw he knows how to manoeuvre these heavier big hitters and also take away their power and put his own shots in so yeah he's up there

one of the best ever really um you know as as an ex-fighter champion i'm just curious we heard yesterday Dana white says he's not going to acknowledge the wbc ibf wb oh he's going to have his own belt and the ring belt and they want to potentially make changes to the ali act as well this is a big thing here in america how do you feel but is it is it time to make these changes and evolve or are you more old school and they shouldn't happen aerial i think it's the time boxing needed to change a little bit, right? And I know there's so many belts out there, not to sound disrespectful. I like the WBC. I like the Dolbya. I've won all their titles, Dolbyo. But the thing is, there has to be just that one big title that everyone fights for and we know who the number one is. Because at the

moment, with all these different titles, you don't know, someone might come over to you and say, I'm a world champion. Like, I've never heard of you. But like, and how did you win the world title? Who did you fight for the world title? And these guys can then pick their fights and pick who they want fight you know so i think it makes it better with so like turkey and dana they're going to make sure the biggest names and the best names are going to fight each other and there's only one title that they fight for because the money on that title is going to be so much money that people are going to be people are not going to turn that down so in the day i think what comes down is the money one title and one champion that's what it boils down to and i think what turkey like shake is

doing this must have changed that they're making and with dana i think it's fantastic for boxing because we're going to know who the super champion is going to be now. I remember not that long ago there was some talk of maybe you fighting on a misfits card, maybe you and KSI. What happened to all of that? Look, I get a lot of calls about misfits and stuff. And honestly, Ariel, I've had my time in my boxing career. I've had a great career.

I've won what I wanted to win. I probably did more than I've expected. Went to Olympics, won medals there and everything. So now my time is just to enjoy the sport, enjoy what I've made in the game. The thing was I was very smart with my money. I made a lot of money in the sport for the biggest names in the sport and it's all about investing now

and making sure you're looking you look forward in life and your kids are growing up and I want to be spending time with them I don't want to be in the ring where my kids see me taking a punch or getting hurt in boxing you're always at one punch away

from getting hurt everything I made in the sport of boxing I want to enjoy it now I want to enjoy the fruits of it and also if I'm getting into this promotion business because I don't want I want fighters to make money

I don't want fighters to make the wrong mistakes that I made that I thought maybe I made but look at the day we price fighters and we have to make the most money win the titles and also live a good life once you retire because I never want to be one of those fighters and I hate seeing young fighters coming

older fighters who have been retired that coming back and fighting these young guys I mean someone's going to get hurt badly one day and it's not nice to see it's not nice to see the likes of like these Mike Tyson and these Roy Jones who are legends in the sport even Mayweathers and stuff that's taking these fights

with these, you know, YouTubers or these guys out there. So look, it's dangerous and I think someone's going to get hurt badly one day and I hope and look, this is something that Tercula Shake is against as well. He is the face of boxing in my opinion

now because he's the biggest fights he's making and also he made it clear that he does not want to do any exhibitions. He wants the best to fight the best and only wants to do big fights. Do you still consider Jake Paul a YouTuber or do you feel like he has become a fighter? Has he earned your respect in that regard.

You know what? He has a little bit. Yeah, to be honest with you, I think he's earned his respect by having a couple of good fights and beating some good fighters. So yeah, you know what? Yeah, I think he now,

but when he said that he's going to fight someone like these Mike Tyson's I mean, that is a little bit disrespectful in my opinion because Mike's such a legend that, you know, Mike shouldn't have never taken that fight. But like I said, the money must have been so crazy. And yeah, I just, just feel that, look, he's proven it, but

not proving it with the elite fighter that's still got it. What about the tank fight? I mean, I imagine him playing so like a Canelo. What about the tank? I'm in size. Come on, bro. Like, look at their size difference. These guys, the man,

this tank's tiny compared to Jake Paul. There's weights for a reason in boxing. You know what I mean? And let's just hope that because one thing we can say is that he can punch hard. So one thing that's hope that tank doesn't take a big shot.

and gets hurt by it because end of the day, this is boxing now. One point you can change not only the fight win or you winning the fight or losing the fight, but it can change your life as well. We had heard about a potential exhibition fight between Connor McGregor and Logan Paul happening in India, that there was a lot of interest in that.

And I feel like India, I remember you were involved with the Super Fight League in India way back in the day. And I feel like India, Pakistan, there's such huge, you know, such massive, populations there, that these are untapped markets as well. Do you have any interest, do you have any desires to hold fights in Pakistan, in India, to see if you can, you know, open up those regions too. So my next move is going to be going to Pakistan and doing some shows

over there. I've got great connections in government and also politics. Obviously, my family originally come from Pakistan. Also, I've been to India, I've done many shows over there. But the thing is now, with a country, if you combine the two countries together, you're looking at almost 1.5, maybe 2 million people. Two, sorry. Billion. Two billion. Yeah, almost two billion people live in the, combining them two countries together.

Two billion. Are you telling me you can't find world champions out of that place? You can't find hard, strong, young fighters, hungry fighters that want to make a name. So I think this, that's a region, in my opinion, that's going to pop off soon. At the moment, it's not kicked off yet. But I think that will come at time, just like how the Middle East has now taken over, boxing on the promotional side when it comes to fighters, I think India, Pakistan

with the population they have, almost two billion, is going to shine and there's going to come a time. Because I've seen some of the talent there, but the only thing is, is that no one gives them that door to open, you know, to go into the big megafights. I think it's a, you know, people have forgot about India, Pakistan, but now, like you see in another

country, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, that's another country that people used to, people forgot about. But look how many great champions have come out from those nations. Pakistan is no different. India is no different. I think the best will come out there and as soon as you give them that opportunity

and you need more than just the opportunity. What they need to start on? This is the government. This is a message to the government of both nations is to build boxing academies, build boxing gyms, build loads of them so then people have things to do. The thing is there's probably

a handful of boxing gyms, that's all in the whole country when they've got a massive population but no one's promoting the sport of boxing in those regions. they need to promote it more, they need to talk about it more, they need to showcase them on television. So people then take interest in the sport boxing.

But I just feel that, you know, Pakistan and India love cricket, which is their number one sport, and all the focus is on one sport, nothing else. So really, if they start, if they kind of change their and turn their focus onto boxing a little bit, you will get some great champions coming out of those countries. I'd be remiss if I don't ask you two weeks ago, we heard the tragic news of Ricky Hatton's passing. I saw your great tribute to him online.

Could I just ask what comes to mind, what memories, what thoughts come to mind when you think of the hitman? You know, I met him the first time and he come over and said hi to me and he was a superstar then. I would just qualify for Olympic Games and everyone knew him and he walked over to me and said, hey, I'm here, Khan. I've heard of you. And I've been watching and following your career. Ricky Aten was a legend in and outside the boxing ring. What he did for boxing, he inspired so many great people and inspired me definitely. to go to America

to fight the big names in America and we did so many events together we did so many dinner shows together and he was a very dear close friend of mine now he was flying to Dubai on the day he died there was a police outside the house I remember a friend of mine who's going to go pick him up from there his name's Dave

Dave was going to pick him up to take him to the airport he had a flight booked for Dubai because he's doing an exhibition fight against Issa Alder and when he saw that the police were there they turned him away and said we can't tell you too much information but you need to leave this scene then I find out that he was

he killed himself I just feel that I wish he picked up the phone and spoke to me we were close we were friends but you know when someone was going through so much

tough times mentally I just don't think he ever overcome the defeat against Floyd Mayer with our Mani Pachiao you know he was a gem of a guy I just wish that he had spoke someone because a guy like him, you know, he'll never be forgotten. He was a great champion.

And like said, he inspired so many great champions, especially in the UK. Obviously, his mental health struggles were well known. Did you know he was struggling as of late? So, no, not really because he was supposed to come and see me in Dubai. We were going to have dinner together. And when he mess in me, that he's flying over, I said, yeah, it'll be lovely to see you, Ricky. I asked him if he was being picked up from the airport. He said, I've got all that arranged. I'll be at my hotel.

I'll be resting, but when I, I'll message you and we'll work it out. And then I heard this tragic news that he had died. So, you know what? I would love to have sat down with him. And, you know, at times, the last time I met him properly was at the Wembley stadium when AJ fought against, I don't know, I think it was. Dubois. Yeah.

Yeah. And me and Ricky was sat there. And we were chatting and laughing. and you could still see how down he was, how upset he was. Like, inside, you know, like everyone's having a laugh, and he was just in his own little world choir. And I should have just spoke to him.

But, you know, obviously, we're just carrying on with the night. I don't want him to feel uncomfortable. But that kind of give me signs. There's something more deeper in his life that's going on, you know. And I wish him all the, I wish his family all the very best because it's a big loss, especially his father. mother, his kids. I mean, it's

hard to see that, you know, a legend in the sport of boxing. He was always respected and always took time out for his fans. Always took time out for his people, which not many people do. I mean, remember the days in Vegas when you would fight there. He'd go out in the crowd and hang out with them and even stay a couple of days after

the fight to have a pint with all the British fans that flew over all the way from England. I mean, these are things that people are going to remember. He was a people's champion. Yes, well said. I'll leave you with this Can I ask what's a dream fight

That you'd love to promote Who versus who in a venue In a country give us the dream Amir Khan fight Okay so you know Say in current boxing I just feel that If we was to pick two fighters

I mean everyone in Africa Loves the heavy weights right Let's pick someone like Tyson Fury versus Annie Joshua We could do that somewhere in Africa What a mega fight that would be That would be huge fight And, I mean, with the people I know now,

maybe that's something where we can maybe make happen. Who knows? Because there was talks about Joshua going to Ghana and doing a boxing fight there because he was at my last event in Ghana, which I promoted. But I heard that boxing has been banned in that country because so many fighters have died.

I mean, this year alone, two fighters died in the ring. So they need to sort of commission before they make any sort of movement there. But look, that's one fight I'd love to do, maybe in Nigeria because one thing, AJ is from Nigeria, he's a big name over here, and I'm sure he'd love to fight in his motherland. Okay, well, I wish you the best. Tomorrow we'll be watching on DeZone, and it's great what you're doing over there in Nigeria, and it's great to see you on the promotional side of things, Amir.

Good luck to you. Congratulations on all your success, and thank you for giving us some time this evening. Thank you very much, man. I appreciate it. Thank you, and it's always a pleasure speaking to you, bro. Same here. There he is. Amir Khan, the silver medalist from way back in the day. The 2004 Summer Olympic Games in Athens,

Georgia, he was just 17 years young when he won that silver medal, obviously won many a title in the world of boxing, as he said, and fought a lot of big names, fought the likes of Chris Algeri, Marcos Maidana, Pauli Malinagi, Marco Antonio Barrera, beat those guys, fought the likes of Canel Alvarez, Terrence Crawford, Lamont Peterson, and others as well. So certainly knows what he talks about when he is talking about the world of boxing and his event chaos in the ring goes down tomorrow October 1st at the Mobile Laji Johnson Arena in Lagos, Nigeria, which tomorrow October 1st happens to be Nigeria's Independence Day. So cool stuff there.

All right, let us move along. our final guest of the day is waking up super early. I tried to, I tried to give him as much time as possible, stick him at the very end of the program because where he is right now in Brisbane, to be exact, it is currently 5.30 in the morning. And I told his manager, the great Danny Rubinstein, I feel bad. You know, I love having these guys on, especially, you know, the Aussies, New Zealanders. I love having them on, but I feel bad making them wake up. Perhaps he is staying up. Perhaps he hasn't gone to bed just yet. And I wouldn't be surprised. He's on quite the role. He's won his last four in a row. He's coming off a very impressive dominant submission win over Charlie Campbell this

past Saturday or technically Sunday in Perth. And so we wanted to have the big train on. Mr. Tom Nolan, he is kind enough to join us right here and now on this Tuesday slash Wednesday morning. Good morning to you, Tom. How are you? I'm good, bro. How are you? You hate us right now? no no it's all good man it's only 530 it's not too bad to be honest i'm all right okay well i always like to make sure did you stay up all night or did you just wake up no i just woke up about five o'clock so um yeah i'm i'm feeling all right it's not too bad it's uh only two hours difference from perth right it would be uh 3 30 in the morning over there right now which is about the time i was waking up to train for the flight and stuff anyway yeah and and by the way

thank you so much for waking up we appreciate it great to have you on the show what about that because here in America, the event obviously aired in normal prime time Saturday night for us, but it was very early for you guys. How did you feel about that? And did you have to train the entire camp really early in the morning to acclimate? Yeah, so to be honest, this time being on the main card was much better. Last year I fought in Perth and it was like a, I think a 7 a.m. walk. So my morning hit out was at midnight that night before. But the way ends were at 7 in the morning the day before that. So, like, realistically, I had 12 hours to rehydrate and refuel and then get ready to go fight last time. So I didn't enjoy that much, to be honest. I was, I was a little

bit dreading this time. But then when I found out I was on the main card fighting at 10 a.m., which would be midday here, it was a lot of a relief. Although I was pretty happy with that because ended up being about, yeah, 3.30 wake up for a 4.30 shakeout, which is not too bad, really. So you've just won your fourth fight in a row. Very nice submission. Do you feel Do you feel like the confidence is high? Do you feel like the momentum is in your favor? How are you feeling about the state of your career? Yeah, man, I'm feeling awesome with where my career is at the moment. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. My confidence is definitely high.

Yeah, I'm just on a role, to be honest. I'm starting to prove everything I've known about myself to the world. I still, I believe I have so much more to show and so much more to go. Yeah, I've got a, I'm only 25, so I've got a long road ahead of me in the UFC, but I'm really settling into the UFC now I'm not I'm not trying to rush anything the biggest change I've I've had with my mentality is I'm trying to make the fight the the most high point of the fight week not like not making weight or not the celebration or not what's to come after the fight when I win I try not to think about those things anymore I've changed my mindset to I just want to go in and enjoy the scrap as much as possible and and so you recently got your BJJ black belt right

yeah and this was your first submission win of your career correct yeah was that a conscious decision on your part because i saw afterwards that you were sort of i don't know maybe like biting back at some critics who said maybe you got it too fast what was going on there and was this a conscious decision on your part let me let me get a submission over a guy by the way who has never been submitted before charlie campbell and perhaps that will shut some people up yeah look um it was only one person One person commented on something saying, oh, you got your black belt, but zero subs, question mark. And it wasn't even like they were being rude. They were just genuinely asking.

And I guess that set off my subconscious because I went out and subbed him. Yeah, no one's ever questioned it in terms of anyone who's ever trained with me. I started in jiu-jitsu at 14 years old. So, like, man, I was a brown belt for like four years before I got my black belt. So it was definitely a, like a well-timed and well-deserved thing. the only reason I've not subbed anyone man my my amateur career was the same I had one sub as an amateur and the reason I got in the UFC at you know five and oh well I got on contenders at five and oh as an Aussie which is unheard of is because I go out and I scrap because that's what fans want

to see I'm looking to knock people out all the time because again that's just what fans want to see you also said something that I thought was really interesting in the post fight presser you said it doesn't matter if I win as long as I actually enjoy the fight or what else or else what's the point? Most people would say like the result matters, you know, like you need to win in order to go on a winning streak and then you get title shots and more money and all that stuff. This sounds like, you know, a participation trophy. Like as long as I have fun, it's like what I tell my kids. As long as you have fun, that's all that matters. You don't hear that from fighters. Why that mindset?

Yeah, so I got into this sport really young. I've always pursued the UFC. I've given absolutely everything to this game of been obsessed since day one. And when I lost to motor, I had my first professional loss, it was a really, really, really tough time in my life. It was a horrible time for me. I hated it so much. And like, I'm glad it happened now in hindsight, looking back. It was the best lessons I've ever learned. And it's, it's prepared me now for what I believe will be a eventual title run. But it was a hard time, man. And to be honest, if I had a lost my next fight, I probably would have been cut, and I would have been 23 years old in the UFC, out the UFC career done. Essentially, in my eyes, that's life

wasted. And man, it would have set me down a really, really bad, like, really horrible path, which it's even scary to think about the mindset that I was in, to be honest. So after I beat Victor and secured my position in the UFC, I kept winning and kept winning. And winning but i still felt the pressure of like well if you lose this one then you'll be one and two in the ufc and you're still at chance of getting cut and you're still like a failure if you get cut and then i won the next one in the next and then going into my last fight against slava i just made a decision i was like man like i've got wins in the ufc now and fighting like some really cool dudes like slava's like a dude you know i watched him for a bit before i was in the

UFC like I was a bit of a fan myself and that was a scary fight so I just decided I'm just going to go out and have fun and let the results just happen out of out of looseness not tension not going in there thinking like all right let's just get through this 15 minutes and then go celebrate and have fun and you know enjoy everything after but hate the fight it's it's rather it's I want to go out and know that I gave it absolutely everything so that way if I do lose at least I can be like well I gave it everything you know what I mean so I'm curious about your reaction to that one and only loss you know you were undefeated prior to that you lose once it happens to everyone and the way in which you're sort of describing it is like you went into a real dark place like you're talking about

it as a very traumatic event why do you think it affected you so much um because fighting was my absolute identity it was who I am it was absolutely everything to me like it was man i would i would have killed someone to guarantee myself a win in in one of my fights like it was absolutely everything and it's still everything to me now it's just i have a much healthier relationship with it's like now i kind of want to use it as a way to i mean obviously this is how i live right this is how i make money and and i love to train and i love to do this for a job i love it so much and my ultimate goal is to be the best in the world but i just don't think you can do that if you go in there stressing about the win. I saw a video the other day of some

athlete. I don't know who she was, but she said, like, if you go out and you win, but you were playing not to lose, did you even have fun? Like, was it even worth it? And I thought about it, and I was like, oh, it's such a good way to put it. It's not really worth it. If you go out there and you're like, all right, let's just get this over with, it's more of a relief when they raise your hand rather than like an actual victory. It's more like, oh, thank God, that's over. So after the Slava fight, well, going into the Slava fight, I decided that I'm going to switch my mindset with that. And yeah, I've had a lot of success with it now. When did you get into MMA?

Like just as a fan? As a fan, oh man, I remember sitting in the pub as a young kid, probably like maybe 11 years old, 10 years old, watching fights, watching John Jones and stuff on my phone or on my iPod. like oh my gosh like what which fight like what era is this what year is this so you're 25 that would be 15 years ago so we're talking like 2010 or so yeah yeah Anderson silver I mean I remember I actually have a core memory watching um Jones versus DC one at at a pub with my dad when I was like really young I might have been might have been 12 or 13 or something like that um man Anderson silver was my goat growing up I loved him so much Anderson silver was awesome wow and and is that like what age

did you start to say to yourself, you know, I want to try to do this. I want to try to be Anderson Silva. So I started at 14. And to be honest, man, it wasn't the sport for me. I had a few coaches tell me like, oh, man, you know, maybe you should try something else. And at the time, I was playing rugby league, which is like a really big sport over here in Australia and New Zealand. and the reason I did it, I was like, oh, well, I want to do something in the off-season to help my rugby league career. So as a young kid, I saw Jiu-Zitsu and I thought, oh, that'll help me tackle someone, you know, I'll use that or keep me fit, whatever.

Went in for a bit was no good. It was just absolutely horrible. Quit for a little bit. And then one of the coaches called me up and called my mom and said that we had a guy who was competing in the Abu Dhabi World Trials at the time, like in the juniors. and he wanted me to come in and be like his training partner because we got along really well. So I come in and did a bunch of like private sessions with him and the coach

and sort of got through my anxiety and became like a, you know, able to do it without all the pressure of other people in the room. And then, yeah, I just stuck with it, man. I went on a tear through the jitsu scene as a junior in Australia. And then I had my first fight at 14. Then I had my second fight at 14. And then at 15, I made my eternal MMA debut. They're at 15.

yeah as a pro no no no no as an amateur okay okay okay yeah so so and you were how old when you made your your pro debut that was in 2020 20 so you were 20 okay all right is there a rule do you have to be a certain age to fight as a pro i believe it's 18 okay but we don't have a commission in queensland so i don't actually know okay um i also noticed after the win uh you appear to to be speaking towards his his corner to charlie's corner to charlie's corner and it seems like it might have been Joe Schilling that you were talking to and you said something about your chin. Could you tell us what happened there? Oh, man, it wasn't as bad as what everyone seems. It was just emotions were hot.

When Charlie cracked me with that massive hook and I was like mid kick and sat me down, like it was a big shot and it hurt my nose, but it didn't actually like rock me. It was if you watch it back, it was just after I threw a kick so my feet went under me. and then yeah his coach was saying some some wild stuff about my durability and then i got straight back up and i was fine and then obviously i you know i put it on charlie and the fight went the way it did um and then you know after the win you've got a bunch of adrenaline running through you i went over to him and i just said to him like oh what were you saying about my durability what you saying about my chin and i kind of pointed over and then he kind of kicked off and wasn't happy

and then I did a lap around the cage and I saw Charlie sitting on the floor and like he was real devastated and it kind of brought me back to earth I was like what am I doing? So I went over and apologized and then he was waiting for me at the hotel actually

and we shook hands Joe Joe was okay oh to bury the hatchet I think to either bury it or to to kind of find out what you know his energy was quite intense at the start But then we spoke about it. And I said, I mean, I'm sorry, I push him to carry it on that way.

But also, you know, what you said wasn't cool either in the fight. And, you know, we spoke about it. We agreed and we shook hands. And he congratulated me. And I said, thanks. And then the next morning, his team had breakfast while I was sitting with my missus and nothing happened. It was all fine. So it ended up being okay.

He was looking to have a scrap there. Like, if you would have said the wrong thing, he was ready to go? He was waiting for you? I imagine so I mean I can't I can't confirm I don't know but he he wasn't happy that's for sure but you know we buried it pretty quickly he's a he's a big dude man I wouldn't want to be I won't be fighting that guy no no no I know and he's been around the game for a very long time yeah I was wondering if you were talking to him it seemed from the the camera angle but I just wanted to clear that up so I'm glad that you guys are all good now yeah yeah it's all

ordered, so squash. Don't get me killed, please. No, no, no. You seem like a mild-mannered guy. It doesn't look like you're the type to want to fight people in the street. Oh, man, you know, everyone comes from a past. I'm not that guy anymore, that's for sure. Martial art saved me from all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, I'm not trying to fight anyone, especially I'm walking around with an ice pack strapped to my leg. I just had an actual fight in the UFC. Like, the last thing I'm trying to do is fight someone, especially a professional middleweight, light, heavy weight, whatever he is, that would be my last thing I want to be doing at that time. When you say martial arts saved you from that path, what do you mean? Where were you

going before martial arts? As a young kid, man, just, you know, running a muck with my friends, just a young lad, just doing stupid things, just trying to, I'm from a small town. You've probably never heard of it. It's called Toowoomba, but it's like, you know, it's two hours in from Brisbane, inland in Australia. And like Australia, you know, if you, you look at my um if you could see right now my view there's buildings and stuff everywhere but if you drive 30 minutes out of town it's just like paddocks and trees and animals and it's like real country sort of land and tuumba is like just a small town pretty much there's nothing to do so you know as a young kid you just i guess you just run a mark and you start doing bad things and

fighting obviously is something that's in my DNA and something i love to do growing up so when i got into martial arts You know, your coaches, they pull that out of you pretty quickly. It's like, hey, man, if you fight, like, you can't train here. You're out. Well, I'm glad that you went down the right path. I also wanted to ask you about your technique, the submission. Did you see that a couple of days prior on social media and mimic it? The re-naked.

Yeah. I thought I heard you say that you were looking on social media and you saw something and then you tried to, you like to look at videos and tried to mimic it. Am I wrong about that? That was, no, that was a different tech, that was the spinning back elbow I threw after we got straight back up. Okay, okay. I saw a video in, I think it was the PFL of a guy who was Southport and he stepped through with his right leg. He did like the Lorone Murphy faint.

He like stepped through with his right leg and then he spun over the top and absolutely slept a guy. And then when I got back up from Charlie hitting me, we kind of got into a bit of an exchange and I saw him overreaching with his head to the left. So I threw it and man, I was millimeters away. I reckon it would have been like a Diego Lopez style knockout. Like it was so close to catching him. But that was one that I, yeah, I'd just seen it just the other day on the phone. And I was like, oh, when I watched it back, I was like, damn, I was close. I love that.

I love that. It's amazing that you guys can take inspiration from these videos and then try to emulate it in a fight. You said afterwards you were going to hit the casino with your bro. How did you guys do? Yeah, yeah, it was good, man. I went out with a few of my sponsors and friends in that. Yeah, you know, you never do well at the casino, bro. That's just how it is, isn't it?

There were some, I saw some fans saying that the event was maybe put on the wrong date. It was a big sporting weekend in Australia and the ticket sales weren't great. As someone who was there, can you explain to us what went on? Some of the locals were writing to me saying, like, it's just they picked the wrong date. It was maybe too expensive. You know the scene. You know the market. What happened there?

Yeah, so the rugby league, what I was talking about earlier, the sport that sort of got me into this originally, it had its like semi-finals weekend and like it's massive over here. And then there's another sport, Aussie rules, AFL, I'm pretty sure it had its grand final, which is especially in Perth, man, like Queensland, not as much, Queensland's more like league and stuff, but Perth and WA is huge for the AFL. and that was their grand final so it was man it was a weird fight week it was like last time here in perth the the hotels were full of fans the streets are full of fans like it was it had that real superstar sort of feel to it this time man it was like a ghost town there was no one anywhere you could just go you could just go walk at any time anywhere you want and no one would like recognize you and nothing it was it was really relaxing to be honest as a fighter it was much nicer But from a fan perspective, it was kind of an eerie feeling all week.

I saw they sold the tickets for like $30 US or $40 US at some point, which it ended up packing the stadium out. Last time when I walked out, it was probably twice as packed this time compared to last time. So there was a lot of people in there. But I think purely because the tickets ended up being so cheap. Okay. In the end, great fights, great action. By the way, did you happen to see what happened in the Jake Matthews Neil Magni fight?

Yeah, I didn't see the whole fight. I just saw a video of Magni like his arm kind of relaxing and then the ref like stopping stopping Jake. And then restarting it and then restarting it and then restarting it submitted. What do you think should happen there? I think they should make that a no contest and run it back just because it's like the ref shouldn't have stepped in really. it's a weird situation for sure and then Magni

come back and ended up winning it right like he did really well Yeah he submitted him but Jake said afterwards and I understand like you think you won the fight and now your guard is down right like there's like a release I would imagine and yes it wasn't seconds later

it was a round and a half later that he lost but that's a messed up thing Magny didn't submit he wasn't out but also you know the fight was stopped and that's not Jake's fault so maybe no content is the most fair thing. Yeah, remember when Bisping and Silver, this happened.

Very similar sort of situation, right? Yeah. Same thing, it looked like you might have had an adrenaline dump when he thought he won it, but then ended up losing. So probably just run it back, to be honest. It's also not really fair for, on Magni side too, when you look at it from his perspective, it's like, that's pretty shitty.

But, yeah, I reckon just let the boy scrap again. Great to meet you. Great to have you on, Tom. Really appreciate it. and thank you for waking up early. It's very kind of you. Man, I really appreciate you having me on, bro. This has been a dream of mine since I was a kid, so thank you so much for helping me achieve that. It's awesome. No, it's our pleasure, and thank you for saying that. It means a lot. And thank you to

Danny Rubenstein. He's the one who's been banging your drum for a long time now, so this is long overdue. Congratulations on all your success. Congrats on your win. And I know you're getting married soon, right? So congratulations, good luck with that. Enjoy it. And then we look forward to seeing you back next year to continue that winning streak. Thank you, brother. Thank you so much again. All the best you. We'll talk to you soon. There he is. The big train himself, Tom Nolan, kind enough to join us after winning his fourth fight in a row, wins over Weishislav, Borshev, as he said, Slava, Victor Martinez, Alex Reyes, Charlie Campbell this past Saturday.

Got the performance bonus as well. Looks good. Four in a row, 25, doing his thing. representing Queensland, Australia. I like it. Actually, I meant to... Did I take a screen grab of this? A fan... I should have taken a screen grab of this. A nice man sent me a message.

Let me see if I could find it here real quick. Oh, yes. His name is... Because I know this was a big... topic of discussion last week, the ticket sales and whatnot. Brad Leim Zero on Instagram. Thank you. Good day, mate. Longtime fan, old time caller into the Spotify, et cetera. I thought I quickly clear up a bit of the ticket stuff from an Aussie perspective. It was just terrible scheduling. Last week, we had essentially the Super Bowl of Australian Sport, AFL Grand Final, long weekend for some

states, essentially a weekend that people plan with friends and family and camping and football related stuff for months in advance, parlayed that with the fact that Perth is so far away from the main population and it costs a heap it was never going to sell. And Sydney would have sold prelim weekend for NRL in Melbourne, where the grand final was, it would have felt like one of the biggest events of the year because of the people and whole sporting nation in Melbourne. Putting it so far, so expensive, and on probably the biggest sporting weekend of the year was the problem, putting it in Melbourne on the same weekend. It would have been crazy with the same card. Just an Australian perspective. Cheers, COBA. I wonder if his name is COBA. It seems Brad,

I don't know if COBA is a slang, but thank you for that, Brad. And that makes a lot of sense and sort of meshes with what Tom was saying there as well. All right, great stuff there. Great six guests from around the world, really appreciated everyone's insights. I enjoy the shows when we get to meet people for the first time. And well, Zombie Jr. first time, Tom first time, Benny first time. Mateus not first time. Who else has been on the show today? Pablo first time. So a lot of first timers. I enjoy that. Someone who isn't a first timer on the program is the Rock, Dwayne Johnson, who just tweeted this about one of our clips from the show. This is when Benny was talking about going out and promoting the movie.

One of the many reasons I love this man, Benny Safdi, excited for you all to see and experience our film this weekend. Hashtag the Smashing Machine. Shout out. And I will remind all of you that way back when in 2019, as I was tweeting about the announcement of this film and Dwayne Johnson, being involved in the film. I will remind you that Dwayne several days later responded very amicably about the coverage.

I shot my shot three or four, five max days later, he was on my program. And what he said was his first live podcast interview. It was November of 2019. It was a big deal for us, massive show back in the ESPN days. I really appreciate that. It was a really, really big moment. and that was some six years ago and so wouldn't it be nice

perhaps even tomorrow on the week in which the show is released for Dwayne to stop by and talk to us about this film which we have discussed in such glowing terms what a glowing review from everyone on the team including Frank and so the invitation

is extended the door is open for Dwayne to stop by perhaps tomorrow perhaps tomorrow to talk about it I did say that Mark Kerr is going to be on and there are some things in the works and if it all comes together tomorrow will be a great show

so take that hint and let's see where things go the hint isn't about the rock by the way but we'd love to have you we'd love to have you Dwayne and if you're in New York please come by stop by the studio

we'd love to have you if you smell la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la that'll do it what the hell wani is cooking Do you think that hurt my chances, Frank? Maybe if someone clips that off.

But do you think he wants nothing to do with it? Do you think he now was thinking about it and now I ruined it? I think that might be exactly what happened. I always, like people are telling me like, oh, you know, Dana extended the olive branch and now you ruined it. Like I always tend to ruin these things. Maybe overcorrect, you know. What about this tweet? Do we have the infamous?

There it is, Frank. You were just a neophyte. back when this happened. You were in your father's nutsack. I'm not six years old. November 1st, 2019. One of the greatest moments in Twitter history. The Rock's announcement is that his production company

will be making a film on Mark Kerr, aka The Smashing Machine. If you've never seen the doc, do yourself a favor. That's my commentary. Four days later, Dwayne Johnson, appreciate you, Ariel.

He knows who I am. The doc is special, as you know, as is Mark's life and all those very early founding fathers of UFC slash MMA that I'll shine a light on. You sure did. And what a great opportunity we have to introduce the smashing machine to a whole new generation who don't know who he is. And he did. And look at this. Some moments later, I say, see, I'm consistent, the greatest MMA doc ever in my opinion. I was trying to play cool, Frank. I was trying to play cool. Very excited to see how you tell his remarkable story. While I have you, not sure if you know this, but I do a show on Mondays for ESPN and like I'd love to have you on some time any time to talk about this project and the Calgary stampeters.

He once had a cup of coffee with the stamps. And then there's the shoot your shot, Steph Curry, GIF or GIF. Anyway, moments later, he responds, ha ha, love that you took your shot, that's how we get shit done, my kind of guy. I'll do your show this Monday done. My office will be in touch offline. Do you know what that feeling is like, Frank? Do you know what it's like to shoot your shot and get that kind of reply? And then 30 minutes later, you have an email with a whole breakdown of how this is going to go from his team.

Do you know what that's like? No, sir. It's a great feeling. That was a good moment. So don't you think it would be outpropos six years later for him to – should I call him right now? I think you should. Yeah, it would be nice. Should I go, should I put him on?

Yeah. I have, what's the worst that happened? Do you get his voicemail? I have his number. All right, now you're just flexing. Anyway, a couple things to discuss before we say goodbye. Did you guys happen to see this tweet from Dustin L. Diamante, Porier, Zoufa boxing, 12 rounds. Me and Nathaniel, I'd do it.

Only one more fight I would take. What do you guys think of that? Yay or nay. up for it? Anyone? Don't care about it in boxing. In MMA, it would be tremendous. Like, for me, it's like, if you're coming out of retirement, I don't care.

Like, boxing, maybe for it, you know, in Dustin's mind, that feels like a justification to potentially do it as opposed to the MMA side. If you're coming out, just do MMA. Nate versus Dustin, MMA. I'm perfectly fine. After that giant retirement. No, who cares? Nate fight.

Only one fight I want. Do it. I want to see the fight. I want it as much as Dustin wants it. Smoothie Kings. No, who cares, bro? Low Wayne, walking him out. Here, let me put it to you this way. You have two options.

He's coming out of retirement to fight Nate Diaz in boxing, or he's coming out of retirement to fight Nate Diaz in MMA. But he's coming out of retirement either way. Are you going, well, he did the smoothie king thing, so I really want to see the boxing match show. Is he even coming out of retirement if it's nine months later? It's MMA. There is no retirement. John Jones came out of retirement two days later.

There is no retirement. There is never retirement. Venderly Silva is getting knocked out after fights in Brazil. There are some people who stay true to it. Demetrius is like the only one. Well, for now. Abed. He's the only one. Yeah, Habib is a pretty great example. Demetrius is the only one though that like it seems like everybody tries every month to get him out and he's just like, nah.

I'm good. Are you surprised that he stuck to it? Who's that? Habib. No. You're not surprised. he's like my mom wants me out I mean it was pretty

pretty definitive the moment that Dana White said we're going to get him back and didn't I knew that he was never coming back yeah the GSP one the amount of money there was a time where I think people thought GSP would be one of those guys but I would come back

that would not come back like a Barry Sanders he kind of hasn't well he came back once four years later I know but that was like a champion like he hasn't I mean he still came back there's fights for him now oh I was sorry I was talking about in between

in between Hendricks Oh, never come back after Nah, I was not one of those people Yeah He was coming back But I don't think he'll come back now Like it seems like Chris Lytle had a great

retirement and didn't come back Wait what? Chris Lido came back Did he come back? Yeah, didn't he fight for BKFC? He had a great retirement fight with Dan Hardy in Milwaukee No, Chris Lido came back, hold on

I want to verify this though Who has the greatest retirement in MMA history? Habib. Habib, yeah, champion. He came back for BKFC. retired never came back again it's hubib yeah until him versus slum you can't do better than habib like seven everybody wanting you you're the number one by the way john jones would have been that

guy like if you've retired the night he beat stepe people would have been like that's a pretty damn good run right there double champ beat a couple guys at heavyweight at madison square garden doesn't get much better than that it would have been great the only difference for me though is john is clearly on the back nine right habib could have done it for five six whatever more you years, and he just said, I'm good. The Habib one, though, was so, it wasn't out of left field because we knew what had happened to his dad, but I don't know, maybe I'm forgetting. I don't recall him hinting at this.

Did he hint that this might have been the last one going into the fight? No. He was very close to the vest around that whole time because of what was happening with his family. He just, like, wasn't really talking like that, but then it became. I do recall for ESPN. saying that night in an article that, or maybe it was on SportsCenter because there wasn't a lot going on. It was October of 2020. Yeah, I think it was October of 2020 when you retired. I remember,

am I right about that? Let me just get that right. 2020. All right. I remember comparing it to Jordan retiring the first time and the second time, not the third time, but like it doesn't get, it doesn't get more shocking and it doesn't get more on top than that. Yeah. In the moment. If Jordan never came back after the first one, that would have been crazy. Oh, we've been off. And in retrospect, it's a sport that's so many people come back now five years later next month. I don't think he's coming back, which makes it even crazy. I mean, okay, let's see.

How old is he right now? Habib. 37. He could still come back. He could come back, no problem. But I don't think he's going. Yeah, I don't think he is. I don't think he's going back.

He's probably gotten. Does Dustin Porre fight again? Yes. Yeah. I never thought he was really retired. Really? even before this tweet no never if you are out there saying that there's a fight that can get you back

that means that there's more than one fight that can get you back there's never just one fight there's a there's a number of fights that could get him back really like what what do you mean like oh we're going to give you 50 million dollars to box Connor McGregor in sure sure but in terms of like you're not retired there's only one unsettled rivalry in his career I guess like what is that like a huge rivalry I don't consider that I mean we've been talking about this fight literally for like... And it hasn't happened.

Oh, Nate? Or else we've still got to see the Colby fight? I love the Colby fight, but he'll never do it. Colby fight means nothing to me. Oh, it's so good. There's no... There's real bad blood. They're not even in the same white class. Perfect.

Stupid. Make it fair. I hate that fight. If he fights anyone other than Nate, I get the Nate one. The Nate one is personal. They were supposed to fight. There were accusations made.

I get that one. But it is such a... It was the perfect retirement other than the fact that he didn't win, but very few fighters. And by the way, I don't, maybe I'm wrong about this. If he did come back so soon, I do wonder if the UFC would ever put on an event like that again. Like, in the moment, it's great because you could sell the tickets and people are interested,

but then it's a little bit hollow if you come back. Of course, who are we to say? But he had such valid reasons, you know, like such nice personal reasons for saying enough is enough, his family, his health, he's having another kid. I don't know. If Dustin Poirier was out of contract with the UFC and Jake Paul came knocking, you don't think he'd take that? You'd take it in a heartbeat. Yeah, probably.

He'd take it in a heartbeat. So this idea that it's like this one, I don't buy it. If there's one fight that you would come back for, that means you'd come back for more than one. You'd come back for any fight if the stakes were right and if the money was right. Remains to be seen, but I do think that Zufa boxing, Dana White, they want to stay away from this. like some people are like like the UFC fighters crossing into it yeah these types of fights I don't think are what they wanted to be we're starting to get a little bit more information about all this Dana is saying he's not going to recognize the WBC so we thought that but he's going to have a

Zoufa belt and the ring title he's going to go by the ring rankings which I think is interesting because the ring will rank usually the top 10 and a lot of those guys are tied to other promotions so if you're not going to play ball with them but you're going to go by the rankings, how is that actually going to affect the matchups that you make? Still, I think a lot up in the air coming off that announcement yesterday regarding the Paramount Plus deal of five years. I've heard some numbers. It's a nice dollar amount. No doubt about it. And it's better than the vast majority are getting. Certainly here in North America. I do always feel like it was the natural place for Zufa boxing to go. And who knows if it was a package deal. But once the

UFC went there and there's this new regime, it just made all the sense in the world. There is kind of one last entity left, and that's Contender Series. That's the one that we still don't know. And I would think that that would go to Paramount Plus 2, but they haven't announced it. Like, I don't know. I was talking to someone about this yesterday. Could it stay at ESPN? Does that make any sense? I don't think it has a ton of value if it's separated from the rest of the U.S. product, in my opinion. I just don't think it's fans like it's appointment viewing that people are coming over. I do wonder. We don't know the numbers. Yeah. I'm sure the numbers are decent. Like I think Contender Series is probably their most efficient product at this point because

it gets viewership and it's easy and it's cheap. But you are already a subscriber to ESPN Plus. you have all the other parts, then you come for it. I wonder if in a vacuum now isolated from the other rest of the UFC package, if you're doing that, I just don't think it has a ton of value that way. The same way, like Power Slap. If Power Slap's not associated with UFC, if it's not connected to it in some capacity, it might as well not exist. It feels like under the TKO umbrella right now, there are three entities left that they can

do deals for. One would be Contender Series in some way, shape, or form. two would be the WWE library and three would be AAA the Lucha Libre promotion which now they're putting on YouTube at least for now they just bought it

a couple of months ago and the numbers do great on YouTube but I don't think that's where they wanted to ultimately be so it's just amazing how they've been able to divide this stuff up and get these incredible rights deals 2026 is going to be really interesting

I think 2026 the story going into 2026 was where's the UFC going to end up there's some other rights deals coming up, these little nuggets. But then how does it all look? How does it all feel? The Paramount Plus, the CBS component, um, on the boxing side of things, you know, what happens to top rank. I know matchrooms deal is coming up with the zone. Like 2026 is going to be a very, very interesting time in the world of combat sports, rights deals, all this stuff and more.

I'm just taking a look real quick. I feel like we covered it all. Did we miss anything as far as news and notes. I don't think anything. Yes, they did make the official announcement that John Sina's final match will be taking place in December. In Washington, D.C., December 13th, to be exact, and this is live on Peacock, Saturday night's main event, no longer on NBC. This was part of the deal in which they did the deal where the PLEs were going to ESPN early, but Saturday Night's main event was going to be exclusive on Peacock. Seems like a pretty fair trade, especially when you're getting the final

John Cena match. By the way, do we believe this is his final match? I don't believe it. Ever showing up at WWE? Final actual match, not appearance, but match. Yes. I don't believe it. This is definitely not the last time we'll ever see him,

but not last time seeing him, but just final match. That's what they've been billing it as. Yeah, I think so. He's so successful outside the ring. Like, it just wouldn't make sense. And The Rock had like a 10-year hiatus. Okay, so are we, does that count? Are you saying like in 10 years down the line when the world is completely different?

Then maybe, I don't know. But they're billing it as the last match. Yeah, then probably. Like the Rock was the example I was going to use. I don't really consider that like a comeback, right? He was kind of just like checking in. That's fine then. He might headline WrestleMania 43 or whatever it is in Riyadh.

How old is the Rock? He's getting up there, 50-something? I mean, he looked like freaking a million bucks in the smashing mission I'll tell you that. The physique on that guy. 3. 3, yeah.

Every time, wait, what is it? One second. Every time I see these big announcements. I'm saying a 48, not that far behind. Yeah. Last match. I don't think he'll do anything significant, basically. You don't?

In the ring, no. It'll be around WWE. He loves it so much, but I just don't think he'll do anything like in the ring significant. How old is? I think I just looked this up and I didn't.

48? 48. Yeah. I have to say, never talk to John. We've never had him on the show, never had a chance to interview him. There's some moments there. Like, did you guys see that clip of him on part of my take? No, I did not. And then there's another one of him on the red carpet. Part of my take asked him a question about, I guess there was a rumor at one point that he had COVID and died or something. And they just had, they just like played it up like, hey, did you ever think of prolong it just so you can like witness your own funeral? and see all these people saying nice things. And John handled it so well and said, you know, a friend of his just passed away and that's not really something he's interested in doing. Like he always comes across as so incredibly thoughtful and classy.

I was ever a huge fan of his wrestling. And it was kind of in an era where I didn't watch as much as, you know, maybe I do now or I followed a little bit later when my kids got older. But he always comes with him and The Rock, I think always come across as so thoughtful and empathetic and classy in their interviews. I at least think that so. I don't know if that's a hot take or not. I saw another clip of The Rock on the Red Carpet with his daughter.

Just, I don't know. I feel the same way. They seem to handle themselves really, really well in these moments. I don't think it's an accident from what you hear about them interacting with fans as well. They're very thoughtful in their interactions with them. I think they appreciate, they have seen the business from the bottom, and now they see it from the top, and they appreciate that perspective and what they were able to do. It's a unique thing. like a John Sina, a rock, how many people can say they climb to that height, right?

You're talking Hogan, you're talking Stone Cold, guys like that. Like, there's not a lot of them that have got as big as those two. They've got full Hollywood careers. Like, they've done everything. So it is nice, as you said, to see them have that kind of like thoughtfulness and that appreciation and that perspective. It's like I always say to Frank, don't forget to send the elevator back down when you make it to the top. Yeah.

And they seem to be doing that. All right. It's been a great day. It's been a fantastic day with fantastic guests. We have a show tomorrow. Same time in place. We'll answer your questions. Mark Ker will be on the program. David Feldman in studio as well, the founder of BKFC. They have a huge show on Saturday, headline by Mike Perry versus Jeremy Stevens and others. That's at the Prudential Center in Newark, New Jersey, and some other things, some other things in the works. At least for now, let's see how it all plays out. Stay tuned, stay tuned. It could be, it could be big. time stuff it could not be you get the music sometimes you're quick on the draw I don't know if you know we have a director right here I follow Hurley who who hits the music you ran but I follow a cue Padre's up one nil I'm so into soccer I say nil these days when it pertains to you know other sports baseball soccer Yeah, that's right Looking forward to it

Question for on-air Jordan Or is he not by the microphone? I'm here Okay What time What time is the Jay's game tonight? You know they don't play until next week You know, I told you that

Enjoy your aiole I said this for like three months ago Yeah, you did say it came down to the final day Not even sure if the Yankees are going to make the playoffs He's won 94 games. Do you think they will beat the Red Sox? Honestly? Yes.

Are you rooting against them? No, of course not. I think this is the year that Aaron Judge finally takes off in October. You think they win it all? Well, I mean, I think they'll make it past the Red Sox. Ooh. Could you imagine? Red Sox out?

Let's like a game by game. Yeah. What is it? This is a three game series, right? That's the three. Yeah. Humble and hungry, you know? Yep, like Coach McDermott says.

And where are we playing? Are we playing in Boston? We're in New York. We're heading up there, aren't we? You and I? Are you going? I'm trying to convince my buddies to go in. They're like, hey, I got family stuff.

Yeah, the Bronx Zoo. If it's Blue Jays Yankees, you're all going to go. Hell yeah. I'm going to throw a first pitch. Last time I went to a Blue Jays Yankees game, me and Ariel saw each other. Yeah, we were working together, but now we are. Mateus Gammarad, Pablo Sukhupria,

Ameri Khan, Benisafati, Tom Nolan, Ju sang you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Back tomorrow, see, time. This is a piece of my ear.