The Ariel Helwani Show - Michelle Beadle

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

The prolific Michelle Beadle joins the show for a wide-ranging discussion about her life during and after her 8+ years at ESPN. Among many subjects, Beadle opens up about her unceremonious exit from the company, her infamous comment about not watching football, behind-the-scenes drama and much more. Plus, she talks about her solo international travels, how she landed her new gig covering the San Antonio Spurs, and an exclusive scoop! Michelle Beadle is a sports media personality currently covering the San Antonio Spurs. She also hosts the What Did I Miss?  podcast with The Athletic. Formerly of ESPN and NBC, Beadle has hosted high-profile shows like Get Up!, NBA Countdown, SportsNation and more.You can follow Michelle on Twitter @MichelleDBeadle and Instagram @michelle.beadle.Today's episode is brought to you by Pristine Auction, the most trusted auction site for sports memorabilia and collectibles. Use the registration code "HELWANI' for $10 off your first purchase TODAY.We're also brought to you by BetterHelp. Join over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health and get 10% off your first month by visiting our link at BetterHelp.com/AHS. For more episodes of The Ariel Helwani Show, please follow the show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast app.To get more from Ariel, subscribe to his YouTube channel, read his writing on Substack, watch his work for BT Sport, and follow The MMA Hour or The Ringer MMA Show.Theme music: "Frantic" by The Lovely Feathers

Hey everyone, I hope you're doing well and welcome back to another edition of The Helwani Show. Of course, I'm Ariel Helwani. It is Thursday, December 16th, 2021. This is our final interview of the year. What a fun three, four-month stretch this has been since we kicked this thing off back in September. I've enjoyed each and every single one of these more than you can possibly know. And I've appreciated your support and your kind words about our little engine that could here. Of course, thank you very much to our good friends over at the Lovely Feathers for their help with our theme song. It's called Frantic. Check them out. My goal for 2022 is to get them out of retirement. So I'm trying to keep that dream alive

with their help on this podcast and their beautiful music that I love so very much. Today's episode is a really fun one. It's a conversation that I think you will really enjoy. Michelle Beadle, in my opinion, is one of the best sportscasters of the past decade. I have respected her and looked up to her in many different ways. I love that she is unapologetically herself. Of course, she was at ESPN for quite some time. She was on Sports Nation. She was a part of the NBA Countdown show. She was a part of Get Up. And then a couple years ago, she somewhat unceremoniously left the company and just kind of disappeared. Didn't really hear much from her. Didn't do anything in the TV business. And she has reemerged recently working for The Athletic. She has her own podcast called What Did I Miss?

And she also works for the San Antonio Spurs, which is really cool considering she's from that area and grew up a big Spurs fan and started her career working with the Spurs. I love her personality. I love that she doesn't take herself too seriously. I love the fact that she is a different kind of voice in the sports world. She doesn't just do the same old thing as everyone else. And it was a real treat for me to have her on the show to talk about not only her departure from ESPN, but how she handled her time away from the business, re-emerging, a little love life talk as well, all that and more. So please do stick around for that conversation coming up in a matter of moments. But I do want to tell you about two of our sponsors on today's

program, which I love so very much. I am so honored that these entities are a part, once again, of our little orbit, our little engine that could. The first one I want to tell you about is Pristine Auction. You've heard me talk about them a little bit. PristineAuction.com is the most trusted auction site for sports memorabilia and collectibles. As I've said before, I grew up collecting everything from sports cards to autographs to ticket stubs to memorabilia to basketballs signed by players. I mean, anything. I just, I have a whole cabinet in my parents' home in Montreal. Drawers, four, five, or six, multiple binders, all kinds of stuff.

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can get deals on sports cards memorabilia collectibles and much more just in time for the holiday season you want to get a sports fan in your life a thoughtful, unique gift? Go to pristineauction.com. Trust me, great stuff there, great memorabilia, great memories as well. Be sure also to use the registration code HELWANI, that's H-E-L-W-A-N-I, for $10 off your first purchase today. Now, second sponsor I want to tell you guys about, and it's something that is also very near and dear to my heart. It's about the topic of mental health. And I've talked about this a lot throughout the year. I've told you all that I started talking to a therapist at the beginning of the year. And if I didn't do that, I don't think I'd be in the place that I am now. I don't think I'd be doing this show and all the other stuff that I'm doing. And so that's why I'm

very excited to tell you about the good folks over at BetterHelp. So let me just say this right here. If there's something that's preventing you from being happy or from achieving your goals, I want you to listen up when I tell you about our friends at BetterHelp. If you think you might need some help, please visit my URL at betterhelp.com slash A-H-S. Why? Because BetterHelp will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. They'll connect you in a safe and private online environment

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Best of all, anything and everything you share is confidential. I want you, my friends out there, to start living a happier life today. As a listener, you will get 10% off your first month by visiting our sponsor at betterhelp.com slash A-H-S. Again, that's betterhelp.com slash A-H-S. Join over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health. Again, that's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash A-H-S. Please do check them out. They are great people and I appreciate their support and pristineauction.com support very much. All right, enough from me.

Time now for my conversation with the one and only Michelle Beadle. Enjoy. Can we go back for a second to 2013? Okay. In 2013, I'm essentially a neophyte in this business. And how about this tweet that my producer just uncovered for me? I never do this. This is what I wrote.

I never do this, but whatevs with an S. Just when this day couldn't get more exciting. I don't know what happened on this day, March 7, 2013. At Michelle D. Beadle follows me on Twitter. Oh, God. Wow. Look at me marking out from a follow from you. How about that?

And then you wrote back, anytime, not sure. It took me so long. My bad. I mean, I'm shocked I didn't have this laminated on my, this was a big deal for me, Michelle, that you actually knew who I was. So thank you for that. Oh, whatever. You like came out and was like, who's this? This guy's like crushing. Who is this guy? It was awesome. I like when people do that. Turns your head. Yes. So great to see you. For a minute there, we didn't know if we'd ever see you again.

True. I knew you were in existence, but you know, in front of a camera, a lot has happened so great to see you. For a minute there, we didn't know if we'd ever see you again. True. I knew you were in existence, but in front of a camera, a lot has happened over the last couple of months, doing Spurs broadcasts, signing this big deal to do podcasts, what I miss with the athletics. We're going to get into all of that. But first, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for coming on. I hope you're doing well. No, thank you for having me. I know we texted a little bit over the last couple of years and I was just like, well, I'm still hibernating, but eventually I will stop hibernating. Maybe. I hope you're doing well. No, thank you for having me. I know we like texted a little bit over the last couple of years and I was just like, well, I'm still hibernating, but eventually I will stop hibernating. Maybe. I wasn't sure if I would or not either, but I'm, yeah, it's nice to be alive again. Uh, slowly, but surely I'm emerging. 800 or so days, right? Yeah. That's

crazy. Like saying it out loud makes it sound insane to me. Does it? It sounds like I was like gone for like three weeks, 800 days. And in the days and in the midst of a pretty crazy time in this world. Could I ask, was there ever a period during that stretch where you thought you would just never come back? I'm good. Yes? Yeah. Yeah, I did. But the thing was that sort of stopped that, I guess, was I didn't have a plan B. In fairness, I never had a plan A. So I guess that was part of it as well. But I was just like, all right, well, what will I do? And then I came back to Texas and I was like, I could drive Uber. I could wait tables again. I just wasn't, nothing sounded fun. And I think that's what it was. Because people would be like, what do you want to do next? And I legitimately

was, I have no idea. And that was that. Yeah. And so when you're in that period, because you left ESPN, dare I say, somewhat unceremoniously. And so when, when you're in that period, cause you left ESPN, dare I say somewhat unceremoniously, like sometimes when people leave, it's like the big goodbye, you do the tears, you do the thing. You just were there one day and you were gone one day. Right. I'm wondering if you had animosity towards this profession that brought you such fame and fortune, all this stuff. Was there a period where you actually like hated not just sports TV, but maybe just sports in general because of the way things ended? Yeah, it's weird. Look, I had left ESPN once before, I guess a few years before that. And it was one of those awesome goodbyes. Like they shot me out of a rocket and we did a big video

and it was fun and sad and we cried and it was happy and whatever. And then this time around, it was just, I mean, a completely different animal. And it was not that I hated. I just didn't want to do it. Like it didn't feel like I said, never planned on doing it anyways. And so doing this job for a living 99% of the time was fun. I mean, it was, it's supposed to be, it's sports, it's television, it's goofy. I loved everyone I worked with. It never felt like work. And I just

was at the end of it was like, yeah, this is kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. People are disappointing, which is fine. I'm not, I'm not 12. Like I know that. And then I being away from it, being away from Twitter and social media and negativity, all of that was just such a nice feeling. Like I would wake up in the morning and not be worried about what crap somebody was going to tell me that day. It was just like, I'm going to wake up and I'm going to do whatever I want. And it's going to be glorious. And that was, that got really quick. I got used to that very, very quickly, more so than I thought I would. How quickly does it get, like, does it take to truly cleanse your soul? Because I have said, I'm not going to check Twitter for a day. And an hour later, I'm deep in the comments. Twitter's hard because it's our input. It's like, I'll check it

before like a game, like anything that happens is going to be on there. So not checking it sort of handicaps us as far as what we are able to know. What I have done, and I did this probably years ago, was I turned off as much as you can, whether it be comments from strangers or I don't go digging. I dare never Google your own name. That's just the number one thing you should never do. Things like that. I just stopped doing it. I think it was Bill Simmons that actually told me to do that years ago. It's like, why? This would never bother you out walking around, so why are you letting it bother you now? And I'm like, it's actually simply correct. Yeah.

And so turning all that off was always good. But now just don't go look for it because a hundred positive things and one negative. And that's the only thing you're going to remember. And it ruins your day. And there's no point, no point at all. Why are you back in Texas? I came here in December. Just, you know, my dog had died and I was like, okay, I'm sad. I'm going to put all my stuff

in the car and take the other two dogs and drive to Texas. And I hadn't really spoken with family for months at that point. And it was very cathartic to just be around loved ones. And around February, I realized I didn't have to go back to LA. The only reason I'd moved there in the first place was work. It's not my home base. It's none of those things. If anything, New York city would have been the place I would have gone back to. And so being here, it just, I don't, I'm not a long time thinker on decision-making. I'm very, once I decided that's it. And so I, I just bought a house there. I put it on the market from here, sold it, bought this boom, done, moved on. It was very, there was no actual discussion. It was sort of, I told my best friends, I was like, what would you think about me living here

again? And I haven't lived in the same city as my two best friends in over 20 years. And that was, it's still, I mean, we went to dinner last night and we still are laughing because we're like, I can't believe I'm here. Like, this is awesome. It's so weird to be able to have dinner and see friends and nothing else. Like it's, it's a nice feeling. And I, I hope everyone gets to make that decision at some point in their lives, something that you just want to do to make you happy. Not because you have to. You mentioned you didn't talk to your family for months. Is there a reason for that? Oh, I saw, you know, those last, those four years of the presidency that kind of killed a lot of

relationships. Yeah. It got like, it got a little tense, but it's okay. We all have agreed to disagree on numerous things and we don't bring it up. And if somebody does, we change the subject. Okay, so you're good now. Yeah, totally fine. It is what it is. What are you gonna do?

Okay. Your dog, I believe his name was Leroy? Leroy, yeah. It seemed to have really hurt you. Yeah, it was shocking.. I've lost friends. Obviously, we've all lost family. I don't know. You know it's coming. It's the one thing you know as soon as you bring a dog or a pet into your life, you're like, there's going to come a day, this is going to be gone. And it just caught me off guard. I did not expect it to rock my world,

and it did. And so it was all of that sort of happening at the same time was just like, poof, I'm going to go, I'm going to go somewhere else. I I'm a big fan of fresh starts, whether that's a haircut or selling and buying a different house or moving cities or changing cars, whatever, ending a boyfriend thing. I, whatever. I, I'm a big fan and like, sometimes you got to change it up. Um, and that's And that sort of just happened for me. I didn't even really think that one out. I am a reluctant dog owner. My brother had a dog. He didn't want the dog anymore.

He gave it to us. My wife said, we're just going to keep him for a week. Obviously, there was a greater plan. The dog has been here three and a half years and I can't help but feel every time. I love this dog. I truly love this dog. Her name is Matcha. And I always think, I think about that. I love this dog. Like I truly love this dog. Her name is Macha.

And I always think, I think about that. I don't know how I'm going to handle that. Yeah, it's awful. It is morbid. I think about it all the time. Yes, it's horrible. All the time. It's, the two pugs I have still are both older.

Like they're, you know, probably 14-ish and maybe 13-ish, who knows. Every time there's a cough or a sneeze or if they're breathing or if they're sleeping for a long time, I go check. It's such a morbid existence. It's realistic and it is what it is. But at the end of the day, like giving dogs the best life they could possibly have, especially senior dogs, if you can, is such a beautiful feeling because it makes me happier than it probably makes them. And so, yeah, it really sucks and it really hurts, but it's all part of loving something or someone. And so, you know, now, will I do any of this again? That I don't know. That's the different subject altogether. Are you done moving? Is this your final stop?

God, I mean, I can never, I can never say that. Can I, like, I'd like to think it is. I feel very content, which is a better version of happy. I think, um, you know, I love, I have a, I have a boyfriend here and I've reconnected with someone after like 20 years and yeah, I just, it's calm. Now, if I were to move again, I don't think it would be one of these, I hope like rash I'm out of here's kind of things, but who can know? I mean, there's still the UK bed and breakfast dream that's lingering over my head all the time. I want to live out like a rom-com someday, but not the love part, just the bed and breakfast part. Weren't you actually over there for a while?

I was. Were you living there or just visiting? I like to think I was living. I was living in a hotel. It was like my best, you know, nine or two and oh dream. But it was, yeah, my dream, that was actually the plan was once I sort of was away for a minute, I was just going to start traveling and I'd started it. And then when I came back here, it wasn't that long after that, that everything sort of shut down and the world made decisions for all of us. And so that was kind of the end of that. But yeah, I would love that. I love the idea of sort of traveling and living out of a suitcase for a

while and not having, you know, actually doing it for fun and not, not work related. So you're actually living in a singular hotel or multiple hotels? No, I was living in a hotel. Um, got to know, got to know the staff. It was in London in Mayfair. Um, and I would take like day trips or I, you know, I'd go, it was, I never left it, but I would go to Liverpool for a night or I'd go up to Scotland for a few days. Like it was just, yeah, it was over Christmas a few days. Like it was just, yeah, it was over Christmas and New Year's. And it was, I think once I took my first fun trip by myself, like you sort of break that seal, uh, it changes the whole game. It's the first one though, that you're very nervous about. And you're just like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Like I'm by myself. This is weird. Am I even going to do it? And then you embrace it. And I'm a nerd.

So I love tours and not everyone loves tours. So when you travel by yourself, it's tours every day. Nobody can make fun of you or say no, or I'm tired. Uh, and it was, yeah, I, I loved it. I love being there. It's, it's a New York, but with a much like a chiller vibe. You ever get recognized there? Once. Uh, but it was actually, it wasn't there. It was, it was in Switzerland and it was Americans. Um, and it was the most random, I was in a small bar, uh, watching soccer. And I was probably one of three women in this whole bar and that, and it happened. And then one guy was like, we actually met like a million years ago. And it was just such a crazy out of context.

Cause I'm really bad with recognizing people, especially out of context. Um, and then that happened and it ended up turning into like this super fun night with kind of strangers, but not really. So it was good. What is it like for someone in your positions, you know, psyche, maybe even ego as well. Like you are omnipresent on the biggest network in America slash the world. You're a part of the NBA finals, that stuff. And then the next day, literally, almost literally you are not there and you are nowhere to be found. Um, I would imagine not only is that a different way of living your life, but it's got, I mean, is there something going on? Yes. Yeah. It's different. Well, look, we all have egos. Like everybody has an ego, first of all. And then you throw your face on one of these stupid screens and then the ego all of a sudden

blows up. You don't even know why. It's a weird thing. You don't think you're anything special, but then sometimes people tell you you're something special and it seeps in a little. I have no idea. Two or three years ago, no, now four or five years ago, version of me would have just been devastated.

I would have immediately gone back to work. I would have just done whatever job, anything, right? I think because I did what I did and I reached what I wanted to reach and I was financially good, I think all of that combined really let me relax because I had worked so hard for so many years. And there were years where I was doing seven days a week, random, you know, sports nation for five days and then this and this. And I had never really taken a break break from it. And it was, yeah, I didn't care if I was seen again because it was on my own terms. You know, I think had I been fired or had it been just a little bit different of an ending, maybe I would have been a little more angry or a little more feeling like I got to get out there and do this and do

that. But I, it just, it was like a breakup. It's like, when you break up, you walk away. Cool. You have a clean conscience. You're like, did what I did. So what I said, everybody's moving on. And that's kind of how I felt about it. And I also, it was my dream job for a while and I did it and it's good. Like I, yeah, it was good. And I know we did a good show and I rest thinking that. And so it was almost like the best case scenario for leaving something like that rather than jumping back into something else that you just didn't even want to do. In the immediate aftermath, is there any sadness, depression?

How are you handling it? I'm trying to think, like. I didn't even really watch. I didn't really watch sports for a pretty good year other than going over there and watching soccer and all that. But I didn't watch. Well, I wasn't going to watch the NBA bubble stuff. To me, I just didn't get it. I was like, it's pointless. So that was easy. Nothing ever bothered me because, and you probably know this feeling, like, you know, what goes on behind the scenes at places, right? Like, you know, like you, everyone's watching a show at a bar at their home and it is what they see. It's face value. But we also know like the good stuff that happens, the bad stuff that happens, specifically the people that are maybe doing things behind the

scenes. Like, you know, all that. And that's a peaceful thing too, because it's not always all it's cracked up to be. And it's, you know, we had a great run because our group, like our little group, whether it be sports nation or NBA countdown, it was a good group of people. And I think that also helps my, my issues were not within that group at all. Everything that I had an issue with was outside of that immediate group. And so, you know, even if I would catch something or I'd watch something that didn't bother me, it was, I'm telling you, I shocked myself because me years ago version would have been miserable. I would have probably scoured the internet for like

people with, where are they? Is anyone even saying anything about me? Does anyone like, you know, that kind of crap. Um, and I'm so glad that I didn't do, or this, none of this happened during that version of me, because that would have, that just would not have been peaceful. I would have probably done some dumb jobs by now just to do what, just get on TV. Like, no, that's it. It all worked out. I'm not a religious person. I'm not, I'm not super suit. I'm not spiritual or anything, but somehow some way this all happened the way it did for a reason like i i truly believe that timing was good did anyone help you not do that like did you talk to someone did you talk to a therapist did you talk to anyone you did all on your own no and i really it's it sucks you know my agent at the time left for w, Nick Khan. My agent too. Right.

So that happened. So that wasn't a choice we made. My manager at the time, we had not a great breakup, which sort of was a little shocking because we had been friends. But that also happens. That's part of the business. So I think, and this is just me thinking, I think because every piece of that industry was removed from my life, like I no longer really was connected to it I think ramona shelburne was the only person that I would

Sometimes like peep into my text and remind up like ramona. I don't want to know about this right now. I'm good And so she was and she was great. I think because I was so far removed myself from it all I didn't need Anything it was it was like I just needed to be away for it. And then when I was ready, I would come back slowly, really, really slowly. In retrospect, do you regret the decision to join GetUp? No, no, that decision was good for my bank account. Okay, fair enough. But also like, look, what we signed up to do

under John Skipper, Greedy and I and everybody else that picked up and moved back to New York or to New York was very much like a show that we all wanted to do.

And then people leave, things get changed, other people come in charge and it becomes something else. And so that's okay. The studio was beautiful. I love living in New York more than I've ever loved anywhere else. It was great to be able to do everything in one spot.

But when things sort of change behind the scenes and you can remove yourself, like why be miserable? There's no point. Life's too short. So you had that somewhat infamous moment where you said you don't watch football. Yeah. I was always wondering if you said that to try to get off the show. No, because you want to know why I didn't think anything of it. I had been saying that on sports nation for like two years before. And then I thought,

well, no one's actually listening to anything I say. That's humbling. Uh, yeah, it was because if you really, I mean, look, if you think back to what I said, how it was really not that big a deal, but there's such a, and also who gives a damn? Like if this one chick on TV doesn't want to watch football, A, doesn't mean I still don't know what's going on, probably more so than some people who claim to watch every week. And B, and we're supposed to all be different. We're supposed to all have different opinions. I, at the time, represented a certain amount of humans that felt the same way I did. That some of the issues that the NFL chose to address and not address were insulting to groups of us.

And so that's how I felt. I felt angry. And that's okay. When you love something or you're a fan of something, like we all are for sports, you're allowed to be hurt, offended, angry. That's part of it. Otherwise, we're just mindless robots. And, you know, that doesn't sound like a fun way to live anyway. So yeah, I had no idea because I had already said that before in my life that that was going to resonate the way that it did.

I mean, to this day, people are like, are you watching football? I'm like, holy crap. How is that the one thing that everyone... Man, you think you say some really smart things over the years and then you realize it just all came down to one sentence. I have to be honest. I was shocked that that was such a big thing, to your point, because if you kind of take it out of context, okay, it's a little bit chalky. But was that ever told to you?

No. You are being removed from this show? But it happened shortly thereafter, right? Yeah, it happened shortly thereafter, and they kept changing things. And look, behind the scenes, now I can talk about it all the time, but behind the scenes with Nick and everything, I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. There are people that are in charge of the show that are ruining it and making it what it's not supposed to, but they're making it in every other show. And that's, I mean, you have this amazing studio in this amazing location in the greatest city in the

world. And we did all of this work and now you're just going to make it into whatever everything else is. And so that was kind of the thing. And, and already having NBA countdown anyways, it made it an easy sort of conversation. And look, let's not be, I Norby Williamson is all too happy to get rid of me and I'm all too happy to be out of his life and his out of mine. So that was easy. That was an easy, like, Hey, we want out. Can we get out? Boom, boom, done. Let's all move on with our lives. Um, It's weird. It's like, I know this isn't a good lesson for kids. Like if you don't like something, leave. But also as a 46 year old who wants to enjoy life, that's where I am now. If I don't like something, I'm going to try to

leave it or do something else. Fighting for it when you know you can't win, it's pointless. Do you ever watch the show now? I've seen it a few times and I've heard from Greeny, um, like Greeny's a lovely man. We, our personalities could not be more different. I am noxious and loud and he is not, he is, he is like a dream for hosting television because he doesn't get you in trouble. He's never going to, he's not going to say anything controversial, even if I never thought I said anything controversial. And so, yeah, he's, he's a good person. And I, I see it every once in a while, like when I come in here,

I'll have the TV on and it'll be muted. Um, but for the most part, to be honest, I don't watch a lot of talking head television. I watch games. Uh, I obviously will watch, you know, Ernie Johnson and those guys, but that's, that's kind of it. Like, I think you, when you gave opinions for a living, whether people wanted to hear them or not, I don't really listen to other people's opinions. Do listen to a lot of serious XM radio. That's probably where I consume the most. So I feel like there's a little bit of revisionist history because I feel like some people now think that the end of your time at ESPN was with that show, but you still stuck around and you were a part of countdown and whatnot.

What was it like afterwards post get up when you were just doing countdown? Did you feel like your days were numbered in your mind? No, I, well, not in that sense. Um, because the show for the first time in its existence,

I'd be a countdown. Like we actually rated. Okay. Like we had some shows that were competing where as before it just wasn't, um, anyway, it doesn't help that they change it every season, but that, that is what it is. And so, no, I just, I, for me, it started, um, the playoffs of my final season, whatever that was. And I'll never forget it. Cause it was in Portland at the

time. And I just, it was just ruined like the, the project that it was, the fun that it was, it was just ruined from just garbage that didn't need to be ruining anything actually at that point. And it, you know, I knew I was okay with that. And I knew Chauncey and I am like Paul as serious as Paul can be. Like we would talk about it, Jalen, you know, it was, I was very open about how I felt and the things that were happening and all that with them and with everyone on the show. But yeah, I just was sort of like, you know, I have a contract. If I can get out, we'll get out as long as I don't get screwed. And then I don't really care what happens after this,

but we'll finish out the season and see what happens. So what, what, what, what was ruined? It was like, it's just such a television. You know, I hate cliches. Like I hate the idea of like, Whoa television's a cutthroat industry and backstabbing. And you're like, no, not this sort of like, you know, people will use media. They will say things to media knowing that it will get printed, whether it be on the internet or in paper or true to make yourself look better. And that's fine. That's everyone's prerogative if that's how you play. But when it's allowed to happen repeatedly, that didn't make sense to me. Because here you have this company, you've invested a ton of money in me. You'd think that at least while I'm there, you sort of have my back or publicly have my back or what have you. And it's just not how it works. And it's a, it's a bummer because I think what happens in those cases is less talented

or less able people end up doing jobs because they played that kind of a game. And then you have a crappier product, but it is what it is. You don't have to watch it. Do you feel like ESPN, the environment, do you feel like it fosters that kind of behavior?

Do you feel like it, it, it, it fosters that kind of behavior? Do you feel like it fosters that kind of insecurity, jealousy, backstabbing, being in the ecosystem, as they call it, that is ESPN? Right. Do you feel like it fosters it? I mean, look, I've only ever worked as far as that's like at NBC for a minute. And it was it was sort of a up and coming sports network at that point. It was not, it's nowhere close to what ESPN is. And so I had so many good years at ESPN without anything, you know, we, I started in oh nine, did however many years, took a break and went back. Um, and it was great. And now look, whether things were happening, maybe I just didn't know about it

or maybe it never came to me or I didn't hear about it. But I also never did a show that was as visible as NBA countdown. And so that's probably part of it as well. There's just one job. That one hosting job is the only one that exists and people want it. And so I guess some people are just willing to do whatever it takes to get it. It's a weird, it's a weird way to live. Like I sometimes think about like, should I have done this or should I have played the game or should I have gone to the media and leaked a bunch of BS and see what, but then I think what a, what a crappy way. Like I still have to go to bed at night. I still have to wake up tomorrow. I would feel awful if I knew that I made a lie about someone else and then that got spewed out. So I don't know, I'd rather have a clean conscience about it than, than have that job

and feel gross and dirty. So officially was your last, uh, your last assignment for ESPN, was it game six of the 2019 NBA finals? Was it Raptors Warriors? Was that the last time you were on air? Yes, that was it. When you signed off, did you know that was it? Yes, I knew. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't know officially, but I knew that we had behind, like Nick and our people, or my people, whatever you want to call them, we had already been like, all right, look, I'm technically out another year on my deal. But if there was a way, if there was a breach, if there was even a hint that like somehow my contract was going to get stepped on, then I had an out to get money and leave. Because look, I can leave, but you leave without money. So you need to like, you have to cover yourself. So I would have had to stay another year, but we got lucky. Wow. That is incredible. I've never heard of a deal like that before. Yeah. Cause if I would just like, you can quit a job whenever you feel like it, but you don't get anything. Right. They're like, okay, cool. Thanks for having me. But I didn't want to do that. Like, look, the last thing I'm going to do is give,

let people keep money that I had signed on for. Like, that's just not how it works. Like I'm a friendly person and decent to get along with, but I'm not taking my money with me. That's the one thing I draw the line at. So there you go. Did they try to convince you to stay? Did anyone try to convince you to stay? At first they were like, okay, well you could, or you could just stay out the year, but it was, it was broken. Like it was just a broken relationship because the garbage that was still going on that that was still going to go on, uh, things that already been said about me publicly that weren't true that nobody squashed or fixed or, and I never addressed any of it. And so it just sort of felt like, I don't want to do anything for any of this. You know,

Chauncey was leaving. Uh, I didn't know Paul was going to leave in the way that he left, but God couldn't have been more Paul. And so, yeah, it's, it's a, again, like you said, it was a brand new show a few months later, different people, different everything. And that's how it works. Just changes. You referenced, uh, Ernie Johnson inside the NBA. Uh, I think most people would agree that probably the greatest studio show of all time, right? Easily. Yeah. That's not a hot take. Um um why have they had so much success in espn literally almost every year changes that crew why can't they even get anything near the kind of success in chemistry that those guys have had well look chemistry is very rare that you put together a panel show and in the first year you don't you just don't get it that's not how chemistry works

you might get chemistry but they they have let these guys marinate for years and years and years and years. Those four guys, like they couldn't possibly probably know each other any better. I mean, they, they give them freedom. They, I mean, and when I say freedom, they give them freedom. Like that's the hard thing about it. They have a lot more time. Like the countdown show is so packed. It's like, I think by the time it's all said and done with commercial breaks and everything, you get like 11 minutes of, of, of content time, which is hard. That's not a lot of time, especially when you've got three or four people trying to divide that up. And so the it's, it's trusting the people that you hired to make the show in the first place. It's trusting that they know what they're

doing, that, you know, you don't have to bow to every time the phone rings to change everything. You just have to let the people you hire to do things do those things. And I don't know why that's not been the case for many, many times over. I have no idea because it's not that hard. It's NBA. It's people talking about NBA, people who probably love watching NBA, and that should be easy. And so, yeah, the TNT is, I mean, it's just, it's effortless and you watch them. And if you're watching at home, you probably think they just show up five minutes before and they go out there and Ernie's just the best traffic cop that ever was. And it looks easy and it's not, as we all can tell. And it's a bummer because it should be, I think. I would have loved to have spoken to you,

heard your thoughts in the midst of last year when all the drama with Countdown was going on. I know you tweeted something quite cryptic about it. I think you were referring to that. Karma's a bitch. What were your thoughts? Come on. Oh oh i loved it well it's that's nothing that person that's what she does and so that was nothing she did stuff to me like she's the one that did all the stuff like she's the one that plays that game and uh you know to watch the both

of them sort of engage in the media wars i don look, I don't think either one came out looking great. It was just not good look for either one of them, but it's also, it wasn't shocking to any of us in that business. Like when you heard the names and who did what you were just like, yeah, that's about right. And I, and for me personally, yeah, that was, yeah. That's where you sitting back, like loving it or like, I didn't even know at first. What do you mean? Like I was, you know, I was living,

but I don't, I'm trying to remember who texted me first about it. Maybe I just wasn't like on the internet or something as much, but yeah. And then I went on there. I was like, Oh, that's, Oh,

that's funny. And so, yeah, that was, yeah, I just, I mean, you know,

you have to remember like somebody leaked it and somebody taped it and somebody, you know, people don't do that when they like you. So maybe we take an inner look at ourselves. Could I ask, how do you feel like the company handled it? That was a tough one. But like, I am a person who knows that they had chances to handle that way before that moment. They had chances to tell certain people not to behave certain ways and they didn't take that chance. It's like a child. You tell that child, you know,

when you're eight, that you stop acting like this, then hopefully by the time they're 12, you don't really have that issue anymore. But when you allow that child to continue to do and do and do, whether you, because you don't want the confrontation, you don't want the headache, then don't be surprised. There's no reason why a person stops the bad behavior. If no one's telling them to, there's no punishment, there's no repercussions. And so, yeah, it was, that was there. They kind of made their bet on that one. And then that's why I think everybody came out looking awful. How do you feel about the current iteration of countdown? I don't, I don't, I haven't really seen, I know it's greedy splitting it or not splitting it. Yeah. I think he's splitting it with Michael Eves and there's a Smith involved.

And Michael Wilbon. Yeah. I mean, and Jalen. Oh, duh. Yeah. I knew I did know Jalen. Yeah. It's, I guess it's there. I don't really watch halftimes of anything. I try to do other stuff, but yeah, it's, I guess it's there. I don't really watch halftimes of anything. I try to do other stuff, but yeah, it's, those are for the most part, nice people. I have no issue with them personally. It's just, yeah, I don't know. And I love Eve's like if Eve's is doing stuff, I'll watch Eve's doing stuff. Cause I think he's awesome. But yeah, that's, it's just, again, it's just another change. And then I don't know what happens.

Could I ask, what was your relationship like with Stephen A? I don't have one with him. I don't want to ever. Yeah. Why? We just are very different people. We're different how we treat people. We're different how we view things. And that's cool. Like I said, I don't have to like everyone. And I certainly don't expect everyone to like me. And I think that's a, probably a good example of someone who he and I are just really over here. In your life now, it must be nice. Like you sometimes in, in TV, you have to work with people who you don't necessarily like. It must be nice. Now I feel like you like everyone that

you work with now. Isn't that like a beautiful thing? It's probably been a long time in your adult professional life that you've actually liked everyone that you work with. Well, I like, no, that's the thing. I liked it. Because if you think of who I've worked with, I work with starting with Colin Cowherd and Elsie and Marcellus and Max and then Jalen and Chauncey and Paul. And, you know, I never worked with Stephen A on camera. That was, I wouldn't. I don't have a good enough poker face, to be honest with you.

And the funny story about that is the last day that I did get up, as I'm sitting at the desk with Greeny and Greeny has to read the read for the next coming up show that I'm already, I'm not going to be on immediately that following morning. It was in tomorrow, Stephen A. Smith joins us. And I was just like, I actually think somebody sent me a screen grab of my face. Cause I was like laughing it like in a weird way. So yeah, no, I do. I like, but look, I came back here and I'm working with Spurs and it's for the most part, almost everyone there is people that I've known for decades. Like it's, it's, it's either they were still there or they were there when I was an intern or they've been there for the last 10 to 12 years. And I've, I've known

them through that. It's just a nice family vibe. Um, I feel like somebody's daughter who returned home because they're very nice and welcoming and they don't have to be. And it's just been great. I don't feel like I'm on edge or have to worry about anything stupid. It's just go to work, enjoy yourself, go home, live your life. I want to ask you about this first thing in a second. One last thing on ESPN, you revealed recently, which created all these headlines, the LeBron James thing that you wanted to get you by. And I don't, you don't need to necessarily get into all that. However,

I sympathize with you greatly because I too was at ESPN. I don't know if you know this, we didn't really coincide, although you did break the news that I was going to ESPN. I don't know if you know this. Wait, how did it all wait from yet from MMA? I was on get up. Yeah. And I just was on as a guest. I hadn't even. And you said, welcome to the family or something. And I think the big lead picked up on that and started snooping around. And actually, you expedited the process. So no, I appreciate it.

I mean, it was kind of full circle from the from the Twitter exchange that you were the one to break the news. In any event, from before my first day there, but after signing, there was a fairly influential figure in my world that tried to get me fired as well from ESPN. Yeah. His name, Dana White. So,

you know, you had LeBron, I had Dana. What was it like? Look at us. Yeah. We both kind of survived. We're doing okay.

We're all right. But it's, it's not, I knew he was trying to get me fired. Did you know? Or is this something you learned only afterwards? I learned after. I learned after this meeting or whatever happened.

I like, I didn't even, I thought it was stupid. I was like, that's why? Why would anyone care who's doing what? But yeah, I learned after the fact. Do you get this thing now where people are like, whatever dude, you're just saying that for attention that never happened. And you just want to be like, why would I,

why, who makes that up? Like, that's a stupid thing to make up. The last thing I want to spend the rest of my life doing is talking about LeBron James. So really it's, that's, it is what it is. I sat with it for two years. I didn't say a word about it. I answered a few questions in the last month or so. And it is what it is. Like, how close was he being successful? I don't know. Because look, at the end of the day, I didn't even care. It wasn't that the request was made. It was that no one said, hey, look, we're having this. We like doing work with you, blah, blah, blah. But that's not your area.

Like, we'll take care of that. That's what bothered me. I don't care what he said. It's that no one in that room had the balls to be like, that's our hire. That's our person. For now, she's our pick. And, you know, none's our hire. That's our person for now. She's our, our pick and you know, none of your business and it didn't get said. And that's a bummer. And I couldn't agree. That's the main thing. Loyalty, right? Like people not having your

back is the stuff that means the most that hurts the most. Yeah. Um, and have you heard from his team since you, I never, I never will. I'm sure they'll just, I'm sure they think, oh, she's crazy that never happened. Right, right, right. Yeah, I'm not a person who makes a habit of lying. I don't bother saying it if it's not true. So the 800 days, how close were you to coming back sooner?

I mean, maybe the pandemic helped, but like were you, I'm assuming a lot of people threw a lot of things your way. In fact, someone even called me one time. I don't know if you know this. And because when I left ESPN, I was, you know, fielding a lot of stuff, independent. Someone actually pitched me a radio show with you.

Why did we do that? No. They said you were on board. I would be. But why did we do that? I don't know. It just, it didn't happen. But I find it kind of weird now that you didn't know about it. Cause they said Beatles on board and we're looking for the sidekick.

And would you be interested? And then. Doesn't that make you wonder though, all the things that maybe you weren't told about, like what else was I not told about? That's bothersome. I think we could have made a good team. Oh, we would. Yeah. Well, we still can't, we're not about? That's bothersome a little bit. I think we could have made a good team. Oh, we would. Yeah.

Well, we still can. We're not dead. That's true. I'm just curious, like how close were you to coming back sooner? No, I mean, I wasn't. And you're right. The pandemic certainly made, I probably would have come back maybe a year, a whole year earlier if there wasn't a pandemic.

But that pandemic, it was like, it was a procrastinator's dream, not to say that it was great. Cause it's awful. And it's still going, but it was for personal reasons. It was like, well, I don't have to go back to work then there's no rush. There's nobody's hiring. Why would I even bother looking like it was perfect. And it was just sort of added a year very sneakily and quietly onto what was already going to be a bit of a break. So the, the, the part that I love so much about your return is you first emerge on the Spurs broadcast and there's like something so,

how can I say, there's something so beautiful and innocent about that because you literally are going home, right? Like you're going to where your favorite team, your home state, where you kind of started your career, all that stuff. How does that even happen? And I give you a lot of credit

because I think there's a lot of people who have a big enough ego who would say like oh i'm not going to go back to local sports right i was on espn how did that come about you reach out to them they reach out to you i mean it was sort of like a like um you know when i did come back to town and i knew i was staying you know i just like i'm still friends with daniel and kick and producers and tom james uh and you know i was like hey bitches guess who moved back to san antonio and it was sort of like one of those and like we, we joked about it. I was like, well, if you guys need like a intern or cause that was my last job there. And then I'm not even sure

what the, it was almost like months later, like how serious are you? Like, would you want to do something? And I was like, yeah, what would you like me to do? And we went and had dinner and we had talks about it and they were awesome. I mean, it was, it went from like, you could do as much as you want or as little as you want or, you know, and I, and it just, it was a no brainer. Now the ego thing. Yeah. Again, I think the slightly older version of me, or I guess younger technically might have thought that, but it's, first of all, when you think about that, what an ass thing to think, right? Like how dare I walk back into this world that a gave me the doors open to everything that I did after that. B this is a beautiful life that everyone enjoys here.

And they choose to be here and they, you know, they've been doing play by play for so many years and it is a family. And then what I'm going to walk in here and poop on that because it's not whatever I think it's supposed to be. No, I don't, it doesn't feel like that. Like it feels, it feels sometimes like I'm intruding, like these guys have been doing this for so long. I don't want them to be like, who is this jackass? Like that. And, and yeah, and it's just no, and I'll be honest with you, every game that i go to it the the fans themselves that are walking around the mezzanine and could not be kinder or more welcoming and so yeah if there was a moment like that or an ego thing uh it never really came to fruition not not this time like five years ago i'm sure i'm sure i would have

been a douche about all of it so So what is the deal? How many, how many games do you do for them? So I do, it comes out to like maybe one a week. And I think we're going to start like tomorrow night. I'm going to start, I want to start doing stuff with the players. Um, it's a young, like just a hungry group of guys that genuinely seem to like each other, which is nice to see. And so, yeah, we're going to start, you know, a lot of them are, they're not household names and they all have fun personalities. So we'll start getting that out there a little bit more, but yeah, it's like a, it's like a game a week and it's, I mean, it couldn't be easier and more fun. And I'm assuming you had many suitors for this podcast that you're doing. You ultimately went that I am. No, it was, I think that's why, to be honest with you, because I, it is the monopoly on like journalists. Like it's, they have such a stable of

really good writers and people who are taken seriously. And then for them to even be interested in me, I was just kind of like, really? Okay. Yeah. That's, that's awesome. And then they give me this opportunity to like, I can make other podcasts and I can, we can try to find the next great person that can do this. And so, yeah, it was, yeah, it was weird. The podcast world is crazy to me. I still, it's still bizarre. Like I sit in this little chair and I'm like, how is this a job? Like, what's, I don't get it. It's I'm going to get it maybe hopefully sooner rather than later, but yeah, it's, it's different. It is different. It's harder than TV. I know that.

Way harder. I was listening to an interview recently with Jackie McMullen, the legend with the great Dan Lebitard. And she was talking about some of her early days and the stuff that she had to deal with in locker rooms and people not letting her in. Your gig, obviously, a little bit different. But when you were coming up, did you feel a little bit unwanted? Did you feel, did you, did you get mistreated because you were a woman in a very male dominated world? I wouldn't say I got mistreated. Um, look, they're always going to be

a couple of people or, or, you know, certain things you hear. Um, I, I remember, I, God, I remember I was like technically still an intern here. Like I hadn't even started, started yet. And they gave me the opportunity to host like some pregame stuff during the Western conference finals. And so I'm down there on the sidelines and it just, it's just all very surreal because I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm almost too ignorant that that's probably how it worked out. And I remember there was a long time. And now I know Los Angeles broadcaster down there. And I remember him making sort of a snide comment about like, well, if I look like that, they probably, and I, I don't fancy myself as like the beautiful girl at the party. So I was

like, well, that's nice. Thank you. And then B I realized like, oh no, he said it in kind of a crappy way. And I don't know anything. And I don't even know that that's going to be my career. Like I'm just trying something new and see if I like it. There've been a couple moments like that, but really it's not been that bad. I mean, locker rooms are uncomfortable. Like I never liked going to locker rooms. Unfortunately, that's just the only way things were done for a long time. And so it is what it is. Nobody wants anybody in the locker room, newsflash man or woman, that's where they're trying to get dressed and go about their business and have their day. And so, yeah, I don't remember a time when anybody specifically made me feel bad, or maybe I just didn't, it didn't resonate enough

for me to remember it in that way, which probably isn't true because I remember a lot of things that a lot of people say. And so that wasn't it. I never felt it. Other than Floyd Mayweather, of course. Yeah, but I'm a long list of people that we don't have to care for. By the way, the official story is they, did they, another thing that I sympathize with you with, because it's happened to me, did they like revoke your credentials from that? What is the official story there?

That was what, that's what happened. And then, because we were in Vegas that whole week leading up, uh, for sports nation. I was also kind of mood lighting with HBO boxing doing, I did like an interview for the show that Max did and, and, um,

Lampley and somewhere. I don't remember what day it was, but it was leading into the weekend. Like I was supposed to be there through the whole thing and went to go get credentials. And my manager was called and was like, there's no credential. Like they, they pulled it. And I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, well, they're just, they don't, they're not going to give you a credential. You can't go to the fight, which I'm like, sweet. You know, I lived in LA. I'd driven up. I was like, I'm going home. And it was just like, well, and then they tried to like,

when this went public, because like Rachel Nichols also had the same thing when that went public, um, people started to backtrack. Like, I think his people were like, that's not true. But like, there was never, I think there were even like boxing. Like there's a boxing guy at ESPN at the time, maybe still is who was like, that's not true. And I don't know, maybe he has to carry the water for them. I'm not sure, but I had no credential and that is the bottom line. Like, and then once they were like, Oh no, I'm already in the car on the way back. Like, oh, it's fine. Yeah.

Like that. It was pulled. And that's funny to me because again, who cares what a few people say? We're not the only ones saying it. There are a bunch of people that say it. You can't only surround yourself with ass kissers. That's weird. Of course.

The fight game likes those people. Unfortunately. Did you ever get an apology for that? No, no, no, no. No, because they denied it. So that's, you know, everyone's sticking to their guns, I guess. Why? When did it happen to you?

Or has it happened a million times? Oh, well, it very famously happened to me in our little world back at UFC 199, which was 2016, June of 2016. I was at the forum in Inglewood and I broke a story. I mean, the relationship between me and the UFC and in particular Dana White was, uh, deteriorating, shall I say? And, uh, I broke a story that Brock Lesnar was coming back at UFC 200. And, uh, I was asked to go to the back and, uh, I said no a few times. And then finally they said, you must go to the back. And then, uh,

they, they removed me from the building. He was there and said I was banned for life and that they just put a bullet in my head and then my career would be over and all this crazy stuff. It turned into a big story. Yes, it was dark, especially coming from Vegas guys. But two days later, they rescinded the ban because the fans revolted in my honor. You're good at this like you're you're a trusted voice and if you start shutting up the trusted voices then what are we doing

you can't do that that's a there's a word for that but wait what was the problem was it that brock was coming back and they didn't what was they said i ruined the surprise i was being selfish i was uh that's why doing my job but i actually remember yes that was why and uh so the conversation was supposed to only last four seconds it was supposed to be like take off your credential you're out you'll never be back here and uh i was like well what's the difference between what i just did and what schefter or woge do right i literally said that i broke the story i was right what did i ruin oh you you you you ruin the surprise we have been working on this i was like so this is why i'm gone like for this. Um, and so that's actually the last time I spoke to him. Um, and then, so when I signed with ESPN two years later, 2018, he was unhappy, tried to get me out. And

part of the reason why I'm no longer at ESPN. But see, that's all ego. Cause you didn't say anything wrong. You didn't bash anyone. You, It wasn't like a personal attack. You just literally did your job. But it's I think that's maybe where MMA crosses over into like a WWE vibe. Like just the show of it all is what bothered him. Like, yeah, because that's you're right. Like Woj and Chef will break some like damning news and then everyone looks bad. But like, that's not even that's just transactional. That is literally transactional. That's this guy signed with this guy, by the way, uh, are you still a wrestling fan? I have, I've tuned in a few times since, um, like I forgot what I watched most recently that the women are just all bad-ass. I did see that CM Punk went back to, you know, which I thought was like, that was huge. Yeah. That was huge. Yeah. So it's, it's been, it's kind of fun fun to like kind of tune in and i don't know if i'll ever watch every single thing like i used to but also i'll tune in when i do and it's it's still entertaining you used to

be like tight with cm punk right yeah yeah i mean life is so weird like yeah you know it's if you think friendships and stuff like that are easy but then all of a sudden you know as an adult you're just like how why aren't we friends anymore? What happened? Like, I don't even know what happened, but that's okay. Nobody, nobody suffered. Um, forgive me for this personal question, but I'm just wondering, does Michelle beetle want to have a family? No, I mean, like human babies. No, God, no, no, I never did. I was like six years old when I told my mom that I was like, mom, can I get an operation? So I never have kids. I'm not a, I've just never been, I've never even felt it. I've never seen it that I, and I went, Oh, that's yeah. I'm 46.

I just turned no inkling. And I used to always tell people like, I don't know, maybe when I'm 50, I'll want to adopt it. I have never even had a moment. I think I like my life the way it is. I love dogs. I love that kind of nurturing. But no, I watch too much ID channel too. Chances of me raising a serial killer. It's like 80%. What about getting married?

I almost did. Like this guy, Marty. Okay. We dated like 20 years ago. And then we parted ways. And we almost did. We went to marty okay we dated like 20 years ago and then we parted ways um and we almost did like we went to vegas a few weeks ago we were going to and then we both were like well we don't even need to like this is enjoyable uh wait literally a few weeks ago yeah we almost did wait you dated 20 years ago and you almost got married a few weeks ago yeah like we reconnected

i want to say in june maybe okay um god this is the most I've ever talked. I like never talk about my stuff, but yeah. No, no, no. No, it's not because I'm like, oh yeah. If I do, I do. If I don't, I don't. I never have. Again, it's not a thing I've ever visualized for myself. I don't have that.

Oh, I see my wedding. Never, not once. So I like the idea of a partner in life, obviously. That to me is beautiful and wonderful. And I enjoy that. But the other, the legality of partner in life, obviously. That to me is beautiful and wonderful and I enjoy that. But the other, the legality of it all is not necessary. So did you go all the way to Vegas and then turn around? No, hell no.

We stayed in Vegas. I love Vegas. No, we turned into a gambling trip. Did you go to the Little White Chapel place? No, we had like booked it. Like we, and then we, yeah. So we ended up turning it into, we had a party. It was like an engagement party type thing.

Okay, so you're engaged. It was really a celebration. I mean, you know, it's just all weird to me. I'm so bad. I'm like a 12 year old boy. Like I'm like, yeah, I guess. But I like, I don't, you don't need rings. Like we just, just live. Wow. I almost feel like I think you jinx it when you start to do like the official steps. And that's, that's totally my issue. But like, you know, you know, those couples that are amazing for 10 years and they get married and they're divorced the next year. You're like, I don't understand what happened. So it's like, I'm almost scared that it's a jinx to do it, which I know it's not.

I obviously have more friends that are married than aren't, but it is. That's wild. Cause I listened to your new podcast and I heard the one that you did from Vegas. I correct me if I'm wrong. I don't remember you saying you almost got married during. No, I never. No, I never. Wow.

This is exclusive. How many exclusive right now. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's funny. Cause I don't, I never, I even the other day at this first game, like we're going into break and Sean Elliott takes his headphones off. He's like, did you get married? I'm like, why do you even, why are you asking me that? It was awesome. It was so cute. I was like, I did not know. You'll be the first to know. Okay. That is amazing. Um, just a couple more things and I'll let you go. And I really appreciate the time. This is great. What are you most proud of that you've accomplished? Oh gosh. Um, Hmm. It's like one is shallow and one is like, I'm proud of me as a person. Look, I am proud of financially what

I did as a woman in this business. And as stupid as that sounds and sad as that sounds, it actually is their markers. And those markers had never been reached. And I feel good about that because hopefully that now becomes like a normal thing. Although I don't know. And secondly, I, I go to sleep at night knowing I've never, I haven't done anything to anyone else to make myself better. I haven't thrown anyone under the bus to, you know, make my career move a couple of steps ahead or thinking that it would move my career a couple of steps ahead. I, I'm honest about who I like, who I don't like. I don't, I don't see myself as fake. Um, I'm sure I've had to do fake smiles here and there. We all do. But as far as like genuine, I, I just don't. And I'm sure it makes some people think I'm an ass. Um, and that's fine. That just

means that you're one of the people that I don't like. Uh, and I'm okay with that. It's, it's, it's too hard to remember what you said and what you didn't say and what was true and what wasn't. And so I just figured just be honest and you don't have to remember anything. I sort of hate when people ask me like, what's the one thing you haven't done that you wish you could do or the show that you could do? Because then like, I don't want to be disrespectful to the people that I'm currently working with or be unappreciative, but I'm kind of going to break my rule here. Like,

as I feel like you've checked off, you know, pretty damn close to all the boxes. Yeah. Is there something maybe outside of the box that you would love to do? I mean, you ventured into entertainment, you,

you bet on yourself, you've gotten all the, the, the gigs over the years. And now I love, there is a bit of it, like an indie spirit to you now, which I appreciate.

Is there something that you would love to do that is maybe outside of what we've known you for? Like I always thought, well, it used to be, I used to think the idea of late night, but late night, I think over the years we've all in this business realized it's just so hard. I mean, people have tried, people much greater than I have tried and it just doesn't work because they make it all look so easy. All the late night hosts do. I love the idea of fun game shows like the Brits have so many. And it's also because their humor is so good. They have ridiculous game shows. But really, like now, if you if you came to me and said the salary is not the issue,, what do you want to do? I would want to do like an Anthony Bourdain style travel, food, sports, you know, live

out of a suitcase. Just go. Just do as many experiences as I can from here until whatever time I have. That would be my that'd be my dream. Like something different every day would be my dream. I like that. I feel like that's attainable. If you have a good you have a new agent now, I presume.

I do. Yeah, I know. That was another thing. I had to do that. That's just all weird grownup stuff. I do not love. Um, last thing for you. I feel like I've seen this clip and it's a tremendous clip. It's great that you have it. Um, I feel like we've seen it like a thousand times. It's you and Tony Parker sitting there with your fresh face. It's a beautiful clip. It's like, I mean, you've probably been in the business like 10 minutes at that point when you're totally there where are you are you in paris with him or you're somewhere it's san antonio outside of i want to say one of the local colleges like on bleachers it's an amazing clip um who knew yeah like i think it's like probably at this point maybe 20 20 plus years ago right yeah because he was he was literally 18 and fresh off the plane like wow if you could tell that young woman something about the business,

maybe what not to do, if you could give her some advice, what would you say to that young woman about what's the common, you know, maybe a little bit advice about the waters that she's about to navigate? I wouldn't change anything. I think every single one of these things has been a learning experience. None of it so detrimental that I'm affected for the long term. So that's okay. I think that's life. I would tell her to start investing earlier because you never know. And I mean, just be yourself. Like, honestly, just be authentic. It might work. It may not,

you know, it doesn't always work, but you will feel better in the long run. Because if you go into it with like this weird facade or persona that maybe it works, but then you're going to wake up one day and be like, I don't even know what, who am I? What did I do? What? I don't know who these people thought they hired. And you're always going to think like, when is the jig up? Like, when are they going to realize I've BS my way through this whole job? And I think that means you're doing a good job. You're not taking it for granted. Cause every day you're like, this is the day. This is the day they figure it out. I don't know what I'm doing. That's okay. But I wouldn't change anything. I love that you said be yourself

because I feel like the one thing that like, when I think of Michelle Bito, it's like, wow, she really is herself on TV. You know, like there are some people because I feel like the one thing that like when I think of Michelle Bito, it's like, wow, she really is herself on TV. You know, like there are some people who you feel like are putting on an act or are just married to the prompter. And what I always appreciated about you on Sports Nation and then when you got to the, you know, the NBA scene with Countdown, I was like, I feel like you were never a prompter person. And I feel like your magic and your talent was that it always made it feel like for the viewer that they were just dropping into your conversation because you were so conversational with your style and so thank you no really you uh to me you're one of the legends of this uh business and i'm a huge fan for life and i appreciate everything that you've done and honestly i'm really happy that and maybe you've just worked me as they say in the wrestling business for an hour but

you know that term i'm happy that uh you aren't bitter because one of my big fears when I left ESPN was, will I be bitter? Will I not watch ESPN? Will I not watch the games? You can't avoid the games. And I thought maybe because yours, I mean, you were there way longer than I was and your departure was, like I said, unceremonious. Um, I thought maybe you'd be bitter. It sounds like you don't harbor any bitterness and that is a pretty damn amazing thing. So much respect to you. And I hope people know that like, when we talk about what's happened, like the chapters of our lives, if just because it may sound like it was a negative moment and because it was, it doesn't mean you're bitter. Like you cannot tell negative parts of life with a smile, like a stupid smile

on your face. It is what it is. It's storytelling. I think if you came out here and was like, I'm going to burn that place down one day, like that's, that's a different animal altogether, but you're right. You can't avoid it. They have the F1 races. So what am I going to do? What am I going to do? Not watch. Ricardo's your guy, right? Uh, who can't, I mean, yeah, but this weekend is it's I'm a Verstappen girl this weekend. Ricardo was actually on this show a couple of weeks ago. I know. Oh my God. What a gentleman. This guy shows up.

Have you met him? No, of course not. I'm like a fan, super fan. Oh my God. I think I'd be nervous, to be honest. You would become an even bigger fan if you met him. He shows up with two sets of headphones. He's like, which one sounds better? How's the lighting?

How's the framing? He couldn't have been a nicer human being. I mean, sometimes I forgot. He showed up wearing a Bills jersey because he knows i'm a bills fan he was such a thoughtful nice guy we went 75 minutes and he's like we can keep going like he has made i'm not a big f1 guy he has single-handedly made me he is such a lovable human being and i see you wearing the hat and the shirt and all that so i think you picked the right guy. Like he gets it. He laughs at himself. Those are the best people on the planet, period. Amen. Like you. Oh, sure. Michelle, thank you so much for the time. Good luck with the new ventures, with the Spurs, with the athletic.

I look forward to that travel show that you'll be doing in a few years. And our radio show that'll be coming out. Yes. And I wish you all the best and good luck with the upcoming wedding as well. You ass. All right. So how about that? Independent Beatle. I love it.

Going back to her roots. There's some similarities between what she's doing and what I'm doing. You know, she went back to her roots like I did as well, doing her own kind of show like I am as well. And I sort of feel like she's just kind of getting started in terms of this new chapter in her life because there's opportunities for her to do so much, even outside of sports. She's that talented. Like I said, I love her perspective. I love her energy.

I love her demeanor. I love that she doesn't care what people think of her. She just is who she is like it or leave it respect to Michelle Beadle and respect to her by the way for not holding any grudges towards ESPN it doesn't seem like she is living a bitter life

seems like she's really happy really content and I'm very very happy to hear that so that does it for our interviews for 2021 we're just getting started though. We'll take a little break, couple weeks off. We'll return in early January, just like the MMA Hour and all the other stuff that I'm doing, taking a little break. I'm actually off to Tampa as we speak to work on the Jake Paul versus Tyron Woodley 2 card on Showtime. So I hope you

check that out. We got a lot of stuff coming up Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then I'll disappear for a couple weeks. Not as long as my disappearance over the summer, two months. Could you imagine that? Feels like it was 10 years ago when I left you guys. We'll be back in early January. We'll pick this up and all the other stuff that I am doing. Again, I can't thank you all enough. If you want to watch this interview or any of the other interviews that we have put out over the last few months, go to youtube.com slash Ariel Helwani. I appreciate the support over there. I appreciate the support on the feeds. Please continue to rate, download, subscribe, and review all that stuff. It means a lot. Follow as well on Spotify. You know the drill. That stuff takes two seconds and it really does help us out.

And please support our sponsors, the good folks over at BetterHelp. Thank you very much to them, betterhelp.com slash AHS. And go check out pristineauction.com if you're looking for a last minute holiday gift. I appreciate the production team very, very much as well on this program, everyone who has helped us out. And I can't wait to pick things up in 2021. Thank you very much to Michelle Beadle. Thank you very much to all of you. I love you all. Happy holidays. And I'll talk to you very soon. Take care. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh