The Ariel Helwani Show - New gambling allegations, Jake vs. Tank cancelled, Aljamain Sterling, Norma Dumont, coach Marc Montoya, PFL CEO John Martin in studio

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

Ariel Helwani begins the show by reacting to the cancellation of Jake Paul vs. Gervonta ‘Tank’ Davis, as well as Francis Ngannou’s emergence as Paul’s potential next fight (02:29).Norma Dumont joins on the heels of her victory over Ketlen Vieira to discuss the win, believing she’s earned a title shot, being willing to fight Julianna Peña, Ronda Ronda teasing a comeback, and more (14:37).New PFL CEO John Martin joins Ariel in-studio for an open conversation about his time as Turner CEO and his intersection with combat sports over the years, including conversations with Dana White, his perspective on the UFC’s control of combat sports, changes made to the PFL’s format once he took over as CEO, the release of Larissa Pacheco, developing homegrown stars like Dakota Ditcheva, the promotion’s partnership with ESPN, their upcoming media rights deal, and more (30:47).Aljamain Sterling returns to talk about his wedding, cornering Merab Dvalishvili at UFC 320, his recent comments about Tom Aspinall and the aftermath of the eye-poke, the fan response to his take, whether he thinks the UFC gloves are an issue, his reaction to the UFC’s betting scandal, who he wants to fight next, and more (1:31:52).Coach Marc Montoya, Isaac Dulgarian’s trainer for UFC Vegas 110, joins to defend his own integrity and discuss the controversy surrounding Dulgarian’s fight due to suspicious betting activity, what he experienced on fight day, kicking Dulgarian off the team, his belief that Dulgarian will not fight again, and the success of some of his other athletes at the gym (2:06:02).Ariel closes the show with more discussion about the betting scandal, including UFC fighter accounts, and Super Chats (2:34:10).

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Eria, Hawaii Show. Back in your life on this Tuesday, November 4th, 2000. And 25, hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. It is great to be here on a lovely Tuesday afternoon. A lovely Tuesday afternoon in New York City. I mean, just look at it out there. The greatest city in the world.

And a very big day here in New York City. It's Election Day. Usually I would wave the flag, but Frank told me that that was, what is it? Inappropriate. Inappropriate. Election day, everyone get out there and vote. Exercise, your right to vote. Now, it's not the, what is it, the gubernatorial vote here?

No. Is it a gubernatorial? Yeah. Oh, wow. I just always wanted to say that. The mayoral. No, mayoral. How do you say it?

Mayorial. Mayororial? Yeah. I don't know if there's an eye there. Who's going to correct you? Who's to check, as the great Bob Aram once said. In any event. Big day.

Governor, mayor. A lot going on. I thought it would be fun to go around the room and ask everyone who they voted for. Frank, why don't you go first? Sure, man. Frank, do you even vote? of course not that's such a lie by the way

you were there the first day of early voting you were there he was out campaigning it was weird that he showed up wearing like one of those red berets today with an I voted sticking Frank why so quiet over there

just fading out the music man so fun God I feel so blessed to be here what a time what a group we miss our good friend on air Jordan Drake's saying things happening in his life but I'll let him tell you about them whenever he returns to us.

Hey, hey, hey, chill, chill, Dan's doing a great job filling in. We've got a great show for everyone here today. And yesterday was a jam-back show as well. I mean, it was a late one. We started off, it was looking like this. By the time we left, it was pitch black.

The window was pitch black. It's a lot nicer like this. I'm being 100% honest with all of you. And I usually am. We talked about gambling. We talked about referee miscues. we talked about all kinds of craziness. And then, of course, we had Steve Garcia on.

It was a very, very, very busy day. And we have another very busy day as we inch closer to the UFC returning to this great city, not this weekend, next weekend, another apex card this weekend. I'm very excited about today's show for a multitude of reasons. Back into the program, Mark Montoya, one of the best coaches in MMA, headman over at Factory X in Denver, Colorado, and also the head coach for one, Isaac. Delgarian, he is going to join us to talk about this massive news. He has some news to share and this story is only getting bigger. And we're going to talk more about this story. I have

more information to share from conversations that I've had with people since yesterday's show because we were the first ones to report, thank you very much, that fighters are being approached with offers to throw fights. And since then, we have seen several fighters come out publicly and then retract, and I wonder why there's statements confirming this. I've also had people reach out to me on background, off the record, confirming this. And I have more intel to share with all of you. That will happen back end of the show because we'll do it after we speak to Mark Montoya. All right?

So stay tuned for that. Prior to that, we'll be joined by Al Jermaine Sterling. Would love to get his take on all of this. Plus the eye poke situation, which he was a little bit critical. of Tom Aspinall last week, the newlywed Aljo, going to stop by at around 235. John Martin is the man who has been tapped to fix the PFL. He is the new CEO of the PFL. He is a man who is very accomplished in his own career for four years. He was the CEO of Time Warner. I mean, it doesn't get any bigger than that in the world of media. Prior to that, he was the

CFO of the company. He's now the CEO of the PFL. and we're going to talk to him about all the changes that are coming, why he's doing this, why he took this job, his background, very excited about that chat. That will happen in studio in about 25 minutes' time. He'll be joining us in studio. And what's also very interesting is their deal with ESPN is up at the end of 2026. So they're essentially going into the final year now. And they've got this event coming up in Lyon, December 13th, and then that's it.

So this is a massive, massive stretch for the company. And then in about six minutes, we're going to be joined by Norma Dumont, who defeated Caitlin Vieira on Saturday. She's in the mix at 135. But first, breaking news since we last spoke, the Jake Paul Tank Davis fight has officially been canceled. It is off. It is not happening on November 14th.

It is not happening in nine days time in Miami on Netflix. And I don't think it's ever happening. So if you weren't a fan of this fight, I think you got your wish. Now, late yesterday night here on the East Coast, around, I don't know, 9, 30, 10 or so, Most Valuable Promotions, the promotion co-founded by Jake Paul and Akisa Baderian, posted this on social media. They posted that they were officially canceling the fight, saying, most valuable promotions immediately initiated an investigation.

No, I had the wrong one. Okay, I'm reading this one. Most valuable promotions at Netflix have announced that Jake Paul versus. was Gervante Davis, the one I was reading, was the one from late last week, originally scheduled for Friday, November 14th at the Kasea Center in Miami, Florida, will no longer be moving forward. Quote, our team has worked closely with all parties to navigate this situation responsibly, said Nekisa Baderian, CEO of MVP.

While we will not be moving forward with this event, our plan is to still, or our plan remains for Jake Paul to headline an event on Netflix in 2025. And that is what I'm hearing as well. They want him to fight in December. That is the hope. And they're actively looking for a opponent. More on that in a moment. Details regarding a new date location, Jake's opponent.

And additional ballots will be shared as soon as they are finalized. We thank Netflix, Kasea Center, Seminole Hard Rock and Hotel and Casino for their partnership. Then there's some information about, you know, fans who purchase tickets. You can see all of this online. I did speak to Nekisa briefly. And, you know, I've seen some people say like, hey, and this was his take it. I asked him two questions, basically, like, did this have anything to do with the ticket sales? He said this was going to be a very, very successful event for them financially.

And the other thing was, like, you know, Tank Davis has a checkered pass. He had a checkered pass when this fight was made. What changed? Well, obviously, two incidents, allegations, lawsuit, since the fight was announced, they at the time felt like this was an opportunity for people to learn about who Tank Davis is for him to show the world that he was a changed man, all this stuff and more. And, you know, that didn't happen. And, and they felt like they had to cancel the event. For the record, I feel like this was 100% the right call. You can't be a promotion that is so heavily invested

in women's boxing and work with a guy who has allegations and lawsuits pending like Tank Davis does. You just can't. It's a mixed message. And what they're doing with women, I think is fantastic. I think it's brilliant what they've done, focusing on women's boxing. It is, it is, it calls into question everything that they've done to build that up when you do a fight like this. And so there are other fighters, other opportunities. You have to move on. They said that they had an investigation. They looked into it.

They feel comfortable moving on. And I think it was 100% the right call to move on. It is not the right look. It is not the right message. It calls into question everything that they're doing with the women, which I think is. one of the best things that they're doing. And so that came out. Jake Paul posted a statement.

Giovante Davis is an actual walking human piece of garbage. Working with him is an absolute nightmare, the unprofessionalism, the bizarre request, the showing up hours late to shoots, to the numerous arrests and related accusations and lawsuits, if you support this man, you support the most vile sin a man can commit. I didn't want to give this woman an abuser a platform

to grow his fans and to grow his bank account. My company champions women. I'm so sorry to everyone involved, mostly to the other card fighters, to my team at MVP and to my team who worked so hard prepping for this fight, sacrificing time with loved ones and kids just for this fool to lose his unintelligent mind. Again, it's scary that devilish men like this can rise to the top of culture and sports, including in positions of power. I hope you people moving forward look beyond his fake streetwear pieces of quote unquote

swag and search for something deeper to be a fan of. As for me, it's on to the next one, as always. anyone, anytime, any place, Jake. In the midst of all this, Francis Sanghanu spoke to TMZ, said that he was offered a fight against Jake, which we here on the show all said that we loved. They said, we said that we thought it made a lot of sense for both guys. Francis disagreed. He said, quote, they reached out the other day and told me how they need a replacement for

Gervante. Jake Paul makes no sense for me. He's not what I'm looking at right now. Jake seemed to have an issue with that stance, and he tweeted idiot. But it didn't end there, because once the dust settled on Tank Davis, Jake and Francis this morning have engaged in a back-and-forth old-fashioned Twitter war. Here's Jake. Dear Francis, just say you already got humiliated in boxing and are scared to lose to Jake Paul. I accept that. You are light work, my friend, stuck in mud.

Francis replies, choose your words wisely, boy. I agree that you need someone to discipline you for what you did to Mike Tyson, but stay in your lane. Jake replies, my lane helped your lane. I spoke up for you over and over again. No more. Look at yourself in the mirror. God don't like ugly. Maybe the truth is you are a fake, holier than thou actor when it's always been just about you.

Maybe use your platform to speak on the youth of your country posting a flag ain't it. Instead of doing TMZ interviews like a con man to talk about me, reality check, I sleep you in boxing and John Joan does in... Is that a bed? What is the last line there? That was a bed, all right. And then Francis replies to that, you did speak up for me in the past, but we are still not in the same lane, grow up and don't fall so low. And then here's Jake, and Sean O'Malley, saying the grind doesn't stop, the move to heavyweight starts. now. Did they get Sean O'Malley a custom fat suit with his tattoos on it? I think so.

It's next level. The thing is, this back and forth only makes me want to see the fight more. Like now I'm more interested in the fight. I'm more invested in the fight. Like if they just would have left it to the stuff yesterday, I would have been, you know, all right, let's move on to someone else. But now I'm like, can we actually see this fight in December? Because that would be incredible. I just think the fight makes a lot of sense for Francis. It's a high-profile fight. It's on a massive, the biggest platform in the world. You can go out there and be the hero. You could be the last boss. You could be the final boss of this MMA story and end it and knock him out. You're bigger than him. And then for Jake, it makes sense because it's another MMA fighter

who's a little younger, who's actually had some fights, who is bigger. Like, there's a a real challenge here. It's to me almost like the more interesting challenge than him fighting Anthony Joshua at the moment because there's a thread, the MMA stuff, now this back and forth, there's no heat between Jake and AJ. There's heat now between him and Francis. There's like legit, they were friends, they were aligned, PFL stuff, and now they're foes. I kind of dig it. We'll get John Martin's thoughts on this. And I know that when Francis does his his boxing stuff, he doesn't have to get the PFL's blessing. But I think this fight makes a lot of sense.

And I think it would check off a lot of boxes. If you want Jake Paul to fight on Netflix, it has to be a super high profile fight. And I think that this would be a pretty high profile fight. Now, is it the most high pro? Obviously, Terrence Crawford or Canello who's hurt. But, you know, those names, they will cross over more into the world of boxing. But this one makes a lot of sense to me. It really does.

And that's the problem. This is like Islam and Ilya going back and forth when the fight isn't being made. It's like it's only making us want to see the fight more. That's promotion one or one. Talk smack on Twitter. Make the fight. But I don't know. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

They're actively looking. I know they are steadfast in getting a fight in on Netflix in 2025. This is what they want. and there's only so many dates left. It's November 4th. This weekend will be, what will it be? The 8th, that's Saturday. They sometimes go on a Friday.

There's what? Eight weekends left or something like that, give or take. So we'll find out the answer to this question very soon. It's a tough blow so close. And I really feel for the undercard fighters, you know, especially the ones like on the prelims, it's a big payday for them. And they're not getting it at least for now. So hopefully they can figure something out.

in the next few days. All right. Let us move along and say hello to our first guest of the day. She had a big win over a top contender on Saturday. And since moving to the Bantamoy Division, she remains undefeated. She's on some kind of role as of late. Nice split decision win over Caitlin Vieira. And she may, in fact, be now the next in line after Kayla Harrison and Amanda Nunes do their thing whenever that may be. We're talking to Norman Dumont, who's kind of to join us right here, now off the top of the program. Hello, Norma. How are you? Good day.

Thank you. And hello to my good friend, my old friend, Alex Davis, who is by your side as well, your manager. Hello, Alex. How are you? How are you, my friend? Thank you for having us. It's a pleasure. Parabins, congratulate.

See, I could do a little Portuguese as well. I could do a little Portuguese to you on the win. It was a hard-fought win for you, split decision. It was close. Before they read the scorecards, did you think you had done enough to win the fight? It was a lot at a decision, even to announce the result, you had a certainty,

you had gained a lot? No, certainty, no. I know, I knew that I had made a work a better in the second and in the third, but as it was a lot

very, very decided in the details, we really, we don't, we didn't, we had really waiting,

what the juys were going to identify as who, who, who, who, who,

No, I didn't really, I wasn't really sure. It was a tough, the second and third round where we were decided on the details. And so we weren't really sure until we heard the announcers. I'm wondering what pleased you more, was more exciting for you, the win over a very tough and accomplished and respected opponent and Caitlin Vieira or getting awarded your black belt after the fight. What meant more to you? What was more important for you a victory

about a victory or a or you get in a facea preto? I think the two are important as equal

so many years are many years waiting for this are 13 years of Jujit is waiting

the Fash Preta and many six years of organization waiting

to be between the first to get the total shot so I think

are equally I think both of them are important. On the jitza side, it's 13 years of working hard for a black belt, and on the other side, seven years working hard in the organization to get to the point where I'm near a title shot. So both of them are very important for me. It's interesting.

You mentioned 13 years to get the black belt. I had a gentleman on my show recently. His name is Derek Moneyberg, and he said it took him three and a half years to get a black but he's never competed in an AECC, IBJF, Mundiales, anything like that. Are you familiar with this guy? And do you think it's possible for a late 40-year-old to get a black belt without competing in just three and a half years?

He had a person, Moningbrook, and who got a façade three years and a half, and never competed, nothing. The guy has over the 40 years. You think possible the guy can get a façapet in these conditions, so rapidly?

ain't you? I personally don't go to evaluate the form of how nobody gradu

or how a professor think of the way of the way to I'm

more traditional a little more more more ancient but I don't much

chegated in to judge the no I don't really

I can't read a galile or judge that I can't really judge other people's

merits it's hard for me to give an opinion on that okay

fair enough I will say I don't think you can do it in three and a half years but who the hell am I I'm not a black belt Alex surely you agree

right surely you agree I agree I don't think it took me took me 10 years to get a black belt

and judo took me another eight or nine to get in jiuizzo and I train very hard under very good

people and I competed a lot so I have an opinion I think that's bullshit okay thank you I know you I know you keep a real Alex so I appreciate

that thank you Norma I thought that your fight, maybe other than the main event, had the most stakes, the highest stakes attached to it, yet it was buried on the prelims. How did you feel about this? He thinks that your was a lot that had more significance

in the card, but they interrary there were there in a preeminate. I believe, I actually, I came to question this, the UFC, and the only information that I know that I have is that not for my cause,

not was for my cause. So I don't know if it was because of the last one, cause of the Ports of the Petson or I don't know exactly what was the decision

of the FEC, but I'm the only information that I had been for my cause, so I just knew that I had to get to go to

and do my work. I questioned it, but I heard that it wasn't because of me, so all I did was show up

and do my work. Who do you think it was because of your opponent? I think I should have got the opponent. I believe that's,

Yeah, I think so Okay So despite all of that You win this fight It's a big fight It's an important fight Do you finally think That this is the fight

That gets you a title shot We know that Nunez versus Keila is next We know that we don't know when But do you think your next fight Will be against the winner of that fight Well, independent of anything You got this battle

We don't know When you're Amanda at Kayla But you think You are the next to fight for Ticchio, after this battle? Well, I

think that I don't see any other possibility there's in my front.

I think it is so to confirm that he and I think there other other

option and one or other they'll have to get to get a moment

and they're to have to go for this moment including I think

that once their fight is matched I don't think there's another option I think

I'm have to be the next one in line. I don't think anybody can really complain about that. What would your response be to Juliana Pena who thinks that she should fight the winner of that fight?

What if your response to Julianna Pena, that she thinks that she would have gained to fight counter-bencedura of that lute? I think she's going to be on medicine. That's not normal or not. I think she's going to be on medicine. She's not normal. What if they said to you,

okay, you fight Juliana, number one contender fight, winner fights for the belt? Would you be open to that? And if they were for you to look with Juliana, and who won't win this lutea, lutea? Now, it could be tomorrow, if she'll want to say. Yes, tomorrow.

Okay. You feel very confident in that match-up. How come? You seem very confident in this casalment of a lot. For what? I don't think that Juliana has a job to me to para or to me to wince. So I believe,

even, that if she she'd have a lot, I would adorary to do this confront, I don't think that's a bad fight for me, and I would accept it before a title fight without any problem. Wow, okay. Who do you think wins the fight between Amanda and Kayla? I think I think that's going to enter Amanda and Kayla.

I think it's a confront very open. He will depend on who's better, more trained in the day and who came with more want to this a lot. I think a lot a very open. I think it's an open fight. I think it's going to depend on who comes better prepared. Okay, you're staying in the middle.

You're not picking a winner. Yeah, that's true. Do you have a preference? Did they what preference? No, no. Amanda has a legado gigantesco. It's a thing that would be a nice, but a Kaila also is a great athlete,

the champion Olympic. So I think that any of those would be great and sufficient this lot. Not really.

Amanda has a great legacy. It would be honored to fight her but Kayla's also an Olympic athlete and has proved

that she deserves to be there so either one of them might be very happy to face. I think, you didn't ask

my opinion, but I'll give it to you anyway. I think you should root for Kayla Harrison to win and I know

that's weird because that's going against a legend, the goat, fellow Is it Brasiliera or Brasiliero? Brasiliera.

Yeah, because it's feminine, right? Yeah. Because I can see a scenario. Kayla and Amanda fight first quarter of 2025. And if Kayla wins, they're going to want her to fight on the White House card. No doubt about it. She's an Olympic gold medalist, friend of Trump, all that. And you could be fighting Kayla for the belt on the White House card.

If Amanda wins, I don't think that's an option for you. Do you see what I'm saying? And now do you change your stance about who you want to win the fight or at least who you're going to root for? You know what he He said? He thinks that he would be torsing

for the Kayla if she she'll get her manned so, with him want to let him

put her in a class Blah and you would be the next opponent.

Yes, I'm a thing I would want much and my my, my

my levy that the Kela win, this would be for this reason,

but he's trying disviar, just trying to cavate a lot with an athlete of

a catlet of the objective of a athlete who a lot of a two, five, seven,

being she's a lot of an athlete great, there's another athlete great here to fight with her. So I

just started with a certain of her and not accept the confront with me and start to be able to

move to a lot more more more than I kind of tend to that because I see now

Kayla kind of deviating now she's talking about fighting a girl that's at 125 that's not even

her weight instead of finding something that's right here that is her weight So, I'm trying to intend that way. Okay.

You know, I heard you talk recently about Ronda Rousey. I think she's coming back, and it sounded like you don't think she's coming back. Can I ask why? Why do you feel like she's not going to come back? And what did you say she doesn't come back? I think she'll not go back. No, I think she'll go back, no. Because the scenario today not favor would her goal of her.

I think maybe even time to even time to confronts now the women are more, are more

more more I don't think she I don't I don't see she's so satisfied

with the public to want to present a grand lute for the fans

so I don't see what far her do she

do I don't think that the conditions are right for to come back

I think the girls today are much stronger much bigger I don't

see why if she'd come and do that. I think it's a different situation. I don't see any upside for her. Really? Okay. Other than just like wanting to prove herself or challenge herself or anything like that, you just don't think that she's interested in doing it at this point? You think she's not to be defy-asurer, to promote.

No, there's nothing interesting for her in this moment. I don't think, even because she reclama much of the public. She reclama of how the legado of her was treated. I don't I don't think she really is a appear to appear

a little but I don't think she can enter in the octagon of new no no I think she complains

too much she complains about her public she complains everything I don't think she really has

a desire to go back into the octagon I agree with you on that just curious how would a fight between

Norma Dumont and Rond Rousey go in 2026 how would be a lot between Rhonda

and Norma Dumong 2000 2000 2006. If I had this opportunity to be incredible and I

think logically that I would win her, I think she would not be able to be able to be so I think would be a victory

with a certain probably tranquillity today. That would be an awesome fight I don't think she'd be able

to get near me I think she'd get beat up a lot it'd be a great opportunity for me your boyfriend Marco Tullio is fighting this weekend

on the Apex card. Do you like fighting back-to-back weeks? Would you prefer to fight on the same card? Like if he was fighting last week on your card? Or would you prefer being like several months apart so that each of you can have your time? You like to fight one in the same of the other? You prefer to look at the same day

or you prefer to fight separate this way? I think separate is better. I think in the same day would be emotion to be a motion too to contend. If you'd have an opportunity one day, we're going to do the better way

possible, but I believe that would be a more difficult to deal.

I think it's better separate on different days. I think it'd be very emotional, hard to deal with.

I think the way it is fighting on separate day. If it ever happens, we'll deal with it but the

way it is is much better. Okay. Well, congratulations, parabence on the big win on all the

success as of late, six in a row, three in a row at Bantamweight and hopefully for your sake you get that

big title fight in 2026. Thank you so much, Norma and Alex. Appreciate your time very much. Love you always, Ariel. Thank you so much, man. Thank you. Okay, man. See you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

There they are. Norma Dumont, Alex Davis. Alex Davis, long time. I mean, really long time manager in the game. Knows, I mean, everything about it. Everything about it. A long-time manager of the likes of Bigfoot Silva and Davis and Figuero and so many others. So great to catch up with him briefly there. And Norma's

on some kind of run as of late. The one thing that has alluded her is a stoppage in her UFC run. no stoppages just yet as far as her record is concerned she does have two wins via submission and a whole bunch via decision but she is looking for that stoppage

most importantly though she is on a six-fight winning streak and three and no since moving to 135 pounds back in 2024 so a big win over Caitlin Vieira this past Saturday her boyfriend Marco Tullio is going up against Christian Leroy Duncan

this weekend so they're fighting back to back at the apex. They even have a new YouTube page where they have a show together talking about all kinds of things, although I do believe it is in Portuguese. It's called Us Mineros do you see. Do you think that's the correct pronunciation? Nailed it. Yeah, I thought so. Anyway, big win for Norma and wishing her the best come 2026 because it's either her or Juliana at this point. Yes, we will get to Rick in a moment. Let me just pull this up right over here.

Still to come, Al Jameen Sterling is going to join us. Looking forward to that chat, as always, with Aljo. Mark Montoya, the head coach over at FactoryX. He's going to join us as well. Talk about the Isaac Delgarian situation. And we will talk more about that. developing story, which is a wild one, and have more intel, more information, talk about what others are saying, both publicly and privately as well. So I am looking forward to that.

That will be back end of the show. For now, though, very excited to welcome our next guest in studio. Oh, Frank, I forgot to turn this on. Oh, it is there. It is there. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. Happis to the best of us. I got you. I go, oh, now I hear myself a lot better. I think you might have just turned it on yourself, if I'm being honest. John Martin is the former CEO of Turner LLC back in 2014 to 2018. Prior to that, he was the CFO of Time Warner, the chief financial officer. That's CFO and has a long history in the world of media, television, multimedia, all that and more. But over the summer, he was announced as the brand new CEO of the people.

PFL. This was a very interesting hire, in my opinion. And I think right out of the gate, he has made a lot of interesting moves as it pertains to PFL. And with a massive 2026 ahead for the company, I'm really curious to see what they do. The biggest story, probably, their media rights deal, which is up at the end of 2026 with ESPN. How do they navigate all of that and more? And so without further ado, let us say hello to John Martin, who is kind enough to join us in studio here. What a great honor this is. There he is. Hello, John. How are you? Good. Great to meet you in person. Likewise. Thank you so much for coming in. I really appreciate it. Do you live in the city? I do. Okay. Do you also live on the West Coast?

Well, technically, yes. Okay, so you're... I move back and forth. Okay. I'm really here now. You're a jet setter. Because the, the, the PFL offices... Just over in Union Square. Yeah, yeah. Right up the street. And by the way, sleeves here on both arms. I didn't notice that. Yeah, yes. Yeah, started when I was 40. Okay, all right. No judgment whatsoever, but you don't see CEOs usually coming in with the, you know, the tats sort of coming out of the long sleeve. It's so great to meet you in person. I really appreciate it. Congrats on this opportunity. And I think this could be a very fun opportunity for the fans to get to know you and learn about your vision for this company. Because I think this is one of the most interesting stories to follow in 2026 because as I was saying before you came in, the media rights deal and the ever-changing landscape, especially for the PFL and MMA. And so first, If we can just get to know you a bit and learn about you, I mentioned, you know, your past with Turner and Time Warner. So did I get this right? 2014 to 2018 CEO of Turner, right?

And then prior to that, you were the CFO of Time Warner. Correct. Yes. Okay, what a run there. 2014 to 2018. I mean, like, and this is like TNT, TBS. That was a fantastic opportunity for me. I mean, I was at Time Warner for 30 years. I've seen a lot. And 14, to 18 was really, honestly, the height of media in terms of media evaluations. During that time, we did a huge NBA deal. We did the NCAA March Madness deal, which brought, you know, the second most popular sporting event in the U.S. We partnered with CBS. So I was doing a lot in sports, but doing a lot just in general, building big global brands. So you were there also in 2016 with the Trump stuff with CNN and all that. You look back on that period in your life with

like wonder and enjoyment or was it super stressful? Well, both, but I was privileged. I mean, listen, I had an amazing career. Time. One was very, very good to me. I think we did a lot of really great things together. When I went to go, become CFO in 2008, that's when Jeff Bucas came in as chairman and CEO. And from, you know, 08 till 18, a decade run. I mean, we had the best shareholder returns in media. Jeff was an amazing guy to work for. And we sold the company to AT&T. So it was a bitter. sweet end, but I feel so blessed. And to run a company like Turner was incredible. Did you ever think that we would live in a time like so close to that time where you guys signed the deal with

the NBA where the NBA wouldn't be on Turner? No, it broke my heart. I will tell you, because that was that was like a 35 year partnership. Yeah. And it was so special to everything Turner's culture inside the NBA, which was a show that I didn't start but helped, you know, steward and superintend. And the talent that we had there made all the difference. And so I really, really cherish getting to know all the people in Turner Sports and they built some amazing brands. How, I don't know, I don't know if awkward is the right word, but how does it feel to see them now on ESPN? Same set, same music, same guys, but different branding. I'm, I'm cheerleading for them. Yeah. But it's not, it breaks my heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Ernie Johnson, when he left the Turner campus was in tears. Like, it was

really a family. I know that's very cliche. No, no. But for that group, that was really, really special. They were amazing. Could I ask, do you think in retrospect the sale to AT&T was a mistake? No, I don't think so. If you're just looking at it from a

shareholder return standpoint, 2018 was the peak of all media evaluations. And it's something that as a leadership team, along with Jeff and the other senior leaders of time Warner, we had been looking at the disruption that was going to occur in media for over decade and really trying to analyze how big was this going to be, how seismic was it going

to be. Netflix was on the radar screen of HBO very, very early because they were sort of in the same business. And what was interesting about Netflix coming on the scene was for the first time, you know, it always was a debate. If you're a media company is content king, like what you do is distribution king. That's a cable company. And it used to be one of the other. And I had always said, well, it's not either or you got to co-exist, but what Netflix brought that nobody had ever brought before is the consumer experience, which was just better, ad-free, always on, you know,

the interface was so much better. And we didn't have an answer to compete directly with that. And we knew that YouTube was coming and all these other distribution channels that are great for businesses like you're in, we're going to chip away at our business. And so we didn't have a natural competitive response for that. So, you know, it was,

Bittersweet for me because I would have loved to have stayed on, but I, you know, I continue to wish them well. So between 18 when you leave and this summer when you take this job, what are you doing? I was doing a bunch of different things. Mostly investing. I was an M&A advisor, mergers and acquisitions advisor for some of the largest private equity firms in the world. So mostly finance stuff. I made some, about a half a dozen personal investments in early stage media companies. I'm a minority owner of a second division Danish soccer club because I grew up playing soccer my whole life. Yes, I do see, I have this. They're currently number one, right? Yes, currently. We're having a academic. Bold club. Okay. Where is this in Denmark? In Glad Sacks,

which is about six miles outside Copenhagen. Wow. How does this happen? Like, how do you stumble upon them? I have some friends that I played soccer within college and a couple of them were actually in the business. One was at MLS, one was an attorney representing athletes in Europe. And so they just asked me if, I mean, this was not a big ticket item. Sure, sure. This was more like a wrecks and play. It's super fun. I wish it was closer.

I don't go that often. But we watch all the streaming games. Oh, amazing. There's a little group in New York that we get together and do viewing parties. So it's fun. I love that. I love that. Okay, so you're just kind of going by, are you thinking?

So then a year ago, Ellison signs a dealer by Paramount. Yeah. There was a short period of time where, they could shop the deal, Paramount. Okay. So a gentleman by the name of Edgar Bronfman, Jr., decades. Montreal, the Bronfman. That's where I'm from.

Yes. Charles, his dad. Yes. Montreal Expos, the original owner. That's my team. Okay, this is amazing. I didn't know this part. So Edgar called me and he said, I don't think it's a good.

Yeah. Wow. Tell him I say hi. I will. I have dinner with him tomorrow and I. Well, okay. So he said, would you help me try to acquire this? I think we could come up with a better deal than what Allison was offering.

I said, well, we're competing against. one of the wealthiest guys in the world. Yeah. It's going to be tough, but I was intrigued, and I knew Paramount very, very well, and I believed in the future of Paramount. So we got together quickly. We raised over $6 billion. We needed to raise $8 billion.

We couldn't get to that level. But we really liked working together closely. And so after that was over, he said, you know, I have a venture investment fund, but I'd like to look at bigger media companies. Would you consider doing that with me? And I have another partner named Daniel Leff, who's also a business. managing director in the venture fund so I said sure so we started to do that we started and we did that for almost a year but I got to know Daniel or come back to this Daniel's on the board of the

pfl and so we were having dinner one evening and I just started asking him questions about it because I was a mixed martial arts student from the time I was 25 until 42 when my body finally just quit I saw UFC one I thought it was one of the most spectacular things I had ever seen. And yes, I was a student and I was already engaged, but I immediately saw that this could be really big in terms of a sport and in terms of growth and what a fantastic thing. So it was 2005. I was the CFO of Time Warner Cable, which was actually the cable provider here in New York City for a while. I get a call from Dana White. Wow. I knew who Dana was, but I'm like, what are you calling me for? Never spoke to him, never met him? Never. Okay.

He just called me. And he said, you know, I've heard your name because there aren't that many people in the media industry today who are like real fans and who actually like MMA. He goes, and I asked around the industry and your name came up most often. So he said, I figured I would take a chance. And I helped him with some early days distribution of pay-per-view among cable systems in the U.S. So that was about 2005. So I started attending the Vegas events, Mandalay Bay. And I thought being in the the arena to see a UFC event was again one of the most spectacular sporting events I've ever been at. And then in 2008, I had just come over to be the CFO of Time Warner. Dana calls me again. And he said, I'd like to talk to you about the idea of partnering with HBO where effectively, we collectively could own the combat sports category because HBO was so big in boxing. And we're MMA. And, you know, Dana said, don't mean to be a model. it's where the future. Boxing is still here, but it's getting older and drive around the island of Manhattan. You see a lot more MMA gyms than you do traditional boxing gyms. What about it?

So I love the idea. Brought it to my internal people. At that moment, it was still a little bit too early for my colleagues at a time wanted to embrace mixed martial arts. They didn't know really what it was. They couldn't see it for what I believed it would be. And they were scared of it, honestly. I think they were nervous that it was just perhaps too, too, you know, violent, you know, there was, what if somebody dies in the case? All of those questions, and HBO was doing great. Like, they didn't need to get involved in this and take on the additional risk. So it just wasn't the right time. But I thought that was a missed opportunity. I really did. And then so fast forward to 2016, I'm at Turner. And the rain group, the investment bankers, called and said,

it's official, you know, Lorenzo was putting the company up for sale. Would you be interested? And I went to Jeff, my boss again, and I said, I would love to take a look at this. He said, you should. You were right last time. We didn't listen to you, but I think you might be right this time. So I took the top seven executives, sports executives at Time Warner, Turner, HBO. We did a few months of due diligence, got to spend a lot of time with Dana, got a lot opportunity to sit with Lorenzo, got to know him, the executives there, Nekisa was there at the time. I loved it. I thought that this, you could, I'm like, wait a minute,

you can own a global sports league for four and a quarter billion dollars. What, when do you ever get an opportunity to do that? So I went to Jeff and I said, I am so sure that this will work from an investment standpoint. I would be willing to step down from my CEO job at Turner. Let me go and be a senior person. at UFC, work with Dana, and we will build this thing into a massive global brand. And Jeff said, I think you're right, but here's the problem. I'm about 80% down the road at selling the company to AT&T.

So he's like, I can't go to the board at this particular moment and ask them for four plus billion dollars, only to then a few months later say, oops, just kidding. Instead of buying something, we're going to sell. So it just didn't work out. So the timing didn't work. But the opportunity, to me, was clear. And it was one of the single easiest to see opportunities of all the things we ever acquired at Time Warner. That's what I really believed.

So then fast forward, Daniel Leff asked me, he said, would you meet Don Davis? And maybe you can share your perspective because I don't think anybody knows of your history with UFC. And so I agreed to do that. I met Don, you know, very nice couple of meetings. And then he said, what are you doing? would you ever consider leading this thing? And I really wasn't looking for another CEO job. You know, 30 years is in executives a lot.

And I was enjoying more time than I ever had before. And I said, okay, well, let me look and see what the PFL is today because I wasn't really sure what it was. And when I looked at it, I wanted to see, okay, the quality of the fights, is it really good? Is this like, could you say that this is really premium MMA, is this world-class fighting events? And I actually got pretty quickly comfortable that the fighting is pretty good.

I mean, really, really good. And then, of course, as I've gotten more into it, you know, 40% of our global fighters are top 25 independently ranked in their weight classes. I mean, the Bellator acquisition did help solidify the fighter roster. And then I looked and I said, well, how's the event production? Does it look good? Well, we've got George Greenberg, a legendary sports executive producer. We've got Chris Kaiser X, WWE, very senior producer.

So production's good, really, really good. And then you go, all right, well, how's the distribution? Well, we can be seen now in 170 countries around the world. And that's not easy to do. And people think PFL's been around forever. PFL's been around for seven years. UFC's been around for 33. So I said, okay, you have a global platform, really good fighter roster,

26 agreements with media partners to distribute the product all around the world. That's not easy to do. And you have arguably somewhat of a comparable product to UFC, but it's monetizing its revenues at a steep, steep discount. So that's where I thought my experience from being a media executive helped them to build big global brands. I said, I know how to grow revenue. Like, I know how to cut media deals, media rights deals. I just got more and more excited about this. So for me, having the opportunity to work in an industry that I actually really am a fan, and I believe in the business prospect,

and I don't believe that UFC will be a global monopoly, a mixed martial arts, because I had to convince myself of that also. But I don't think, I think that the fan base, particularly around the world, is still very, very underserved. And, you know, 85% of MMA fans are arguably outside the U.S. The world's a big place. There's a lot of place to put on premium MMA events. So that's why I'm here. Wow, so you probably just answered like 10 different questions on your own.

No, it was great. I loved hearing it. It shows what kind of a pro you are. I remember, I just wanted to go back to one thing. I remember there was some talk. I think it was in 08 that HBO was going to get involved. And we were all very excited about this because this felt like validation. Like, oh, my God, the UFC is finally going to make it to HBO.

And then there was a fight in Vegas. And I think the president of HBO at the time got in some trouble. And his son was put, you know what I'm talking about? And his son. There was a Mayweather, Delahoya fight, I think. Yeah. And his son was pushing for it and he didn't really want to do it. That is right.

I was on the other. I was, yes. You were pushing for it too? Yes. I was in the middle of that. Because Dana has told this story that he felt like he was on the goal line. I thought we were on the goal line too. I really did.

And that really blew it all up. That blew it up. Wow. And then to say to you that, like I asked you, do you kind of wish that the AT&T sale didn't happen? If the AT&T sale doesn't happen, maybe you're involved in the purchase of the UFC. I think it would have. How do you not regret it? Well, like I said, it's a little bit of a bit of a bittersweet.

Yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. sliding doors moments here and there but now here you are and so you you decide to take that job in july right this job yes although i didn't start until september 2nd that's right they made the announcement in july right this is like what is that like it's been jumping in the deep end does it feel that way is it well no no no but it's it's it's look i've experienced media executive sports executive yeah they've ever run a global fight promotion yeah yeah so learning a lot uh it's different from

I'm being the CEO of a company. When you're CEO of like a Turner, which had $13.5 billion of revenue, you probably make one hard decision a month. Okay. And when you're the CEO, PFL, you're making three a day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's fast and it's dynamic and it's exciting. And so I'm learning a lot.

And I'm really, really energized. I'm excited to be here. Look, we got a lot of things to do. Yes. And a lot to try to accomplish. So to that point, you come out of the gate and I remember you put out this statement and it wasn't a fancy statement on this letterhead, but like the way I read it was you're here to clean up and I'm not trying to disparage a previous regime, but clean up some confusion and what I thought was a bit of a mess. And I remember seeing it, reading it and quote tweeting it by saying like this feels like a breath of fresh air because you were going to make things a lot more easy for the fans to follow. You were going to simplify things.

did that come to you right away? Was that something that you recognize right away because the knock on the PFL from the likes of me and many others, fans as well, has been, it's just very confusing. There's these regional tournaments

and then the American tournament and then there's the American champion and then there's other champion and it was just too much. You know, it was just a lot. And I understood the willingness to be different to be the counter to the UFC

but you can't muddy the waters and at the end of the day the fight game is the fight game and the best just have to fight the best And so when did you recognize that, hey, we just need to simplify all of this? And was there any pushback or is it ultimately like what John Martin wants, John Martin gets? Well, you know, I probably, well, not a problem. I came in with a predisposition that the tournament structure was asking a lot of the fans.

And I'll share from my own perspective, like me trying to follow the tournaments to then the global, the champion series. And that, but that largely, in some respects, was created through the Bellator acquisition. So you were merging together different formats. Bellator had champions that were different than the PFL champions. So I thought there was an opportunity to simplify. And I was pleased that it seems like the reaction has been quite positive. So I think there's always, if you're the challenger brand and you're not, if you're not UFC in this instance, of course there's going to be a desire when people look at you go well why do I have to pay any

attention to you what's what's your hook why how are you different the format or the product is one easy way you could say well they do it this way and we're going to do it this way but I grew up I was a fight fan boxing fan since I was five I mean some of the fondest memories I have of me being with my dad who is not a sports fan but it was a boxing nut was watching Muhammad Ali and Hearns Hagler and all and you can't help it like who's the champ who's the ranked who's who's fighting who, who the matchmakers, what's the buildup, what's the story, and then from having been in the arenas in Vegas watching UFC where you got the walkouts, the music and the mood and the energy, and by the time the cage doors shut, you are so excited and the arena's

rocking, like you just want to get this thing going. I said, let's just simplify it because the fighters are good enough. Like we could put on some pretty world-class events without having to make it overly complicated. So I just think that there's a reason why the formats work in combat sports. And I think now's the time for us to more conform. I think there are other ways we could probably differentiate PFL versus others. And the receptivity internally from the board and from Don has all been very, very positive, right? Everybody's supportive of what I'm trying to do.

Okay, so does that mean in 2026, does that mean no more tournaments? I think, well, in the U.S., we're not going to do any tournament. Okay. So, and in Europe, we're not going to do a tournament. Okay. We have two other regional leagues where we have partners. One is in Middle East and Northern Africa. Yep.

And the other is in the continent of Africa. And those are more regional development leagues. And I think for those, we're going to continue to have maybe a modified or smaller tournament format. But I'm really here. I'm an ambitious person. And I've built global brands. I've helped build global brands. I think we have, at the PFL, something that could be a massive global brand.

So I want to go and really put us on the path to be able to start to execute against that. I think the best possible way to do that is by putting on our highest profile fighters and as many events as possible, put on great fights with great fighters and delight the fans. It's pretty simple. So how many events are you slated to put on in 2025 here in the United States? We're probably going to do 10 in the U.S. Okay. So almost one a month?

almost one a month and then we'll likely do and none of this is firm announcements but likely we'll do probably four in Europe okay uh and a couple of outside maybe in the middle eastern region that are global events like we just held one in Dubai last month yeah this would be like a minna event no see minna will probably do four events Africa will do four uh we made an announcement that we were going to launch a league in australia but we're still evaluating what that format is going to be. And I think Australia's a fantastic MMA market. And I think, you know, I'd like to bring some of our best fighters to Australia too and host real global events there. I think we can really delight fans there. And like I said, the world's a big place. There's a lot of opportunity

to go and really put on great shows for fans. I think that's what people want to see. Absolutely. So these 10 events in the U.S., they're just events. So there's no hook, there's no gimmick. No, so there's no world tournament. Basically kind of like what we just saw in Dubai. Yes. just like this guy's defending his top of the card either champions championship events or at that caliber amazing main events co-main events does champion series still exist probably not what's the point yeah it's fl global right yeah pfl right uh when you make that decision you have and we'll get to your your media rights deal but you do have one year left with the espn do you have to get their sign off or as long as you deliver the 10 events they're okay with it uh

No, I did reach out to them and spoke to them before we made any announcement. And they actually, they reacted very favorably to the new direction. For you, what do you think is the sweet spot number in total? A whole year 365, how many events do you think is a right? Because sometimes I feel like some companies, they grow a little bit too fast. They're putting on two. The cards get watered down. Do you have any idea what you think is like the sweet spot number for events per year?

I don't know. I think it's more than where we're at right now. But again, it's seven-year company. I want to make sure, this is a little bit of corporate speak, but I want to make sure that the ambition of the company is equal to its capabilities. In other words, I want to make sure that the events that we're putting on

are all very consistent, consistent at a high level, that people will know if it's a PFL event, they should expect a certain type of event with certain type of fights. And if we can replicate that ability and do it around the world, then I want to go where we can make it a business and where there is going to be fan receptivity. And I, you know, I think we can definitely scale up from where we're at.

I mean, Latin America is still fertile territory for PFL. Asia is still fertile territory. So if we start doing four to six in the MENA region and four in Africa and probably four, Australia, New Zealand, eventually, 10, at least. 10 in the U.S. It's hard to break into the U.S. a little bit because the dominance that U.S. has there, although I think we'll start to get on people's radar screen more in the U.S. because we're going to bring higher profile fighters there.

And then, of course, you know, we've, and I think this has already been announced, an ambition to do some events in Latin America and Asia. I mean, if you look at where our audience is today are our number one market in terms of audiences, Mexico. Interesting. Mexico and India. Really? Their neck and that can, U.S. is number three.

Wow, wow, interesting. And you've never done an event in Mexico. No. I would love to do an event in Mexico. Yeah. And no major organization has done one in India. Are you looking at that as well? I haven't in the 602 days.

Ambition, yes, but nothing to really. And another thing that it seems like, so it's just going to be one champion per way class. Just like Costello Van Stenis is the champion at 185 and Corey Anderson is a champion at 205. And that's it, right? Yes. Nothing else. Okay. And you're starting to add more, like the cyborg fight in December and Phaedda. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And will there be tournaments, like sometimes what Bellator would do back in the day, there would be like one tournament that sort of spans over a period of time and you focus on that. Or are you kind of tired of tournaments and you just want to focus on the best fights possible?

I think for now the best opportunity for us to elevate our brand is to focus on the best fights with the best fighters. But I would never say never. Sure, sure, sure. And there could be these one-off supervite events where, you know, who knows it could be country versus country, or I know we're having some casual discussions in the continent of Africa, which I have to learn a lot more about. Sure. But the country rivalries in Africa are pretty epic. Right, right, right, right. So there's some really interesting things we might be able to do there. But, you know, PFL is the first MMA organization that really held a premium MMA event in the continent of Africa.

We've now done three. By the end of the year, we'll do four. I know that there are some fighters who, you know, when they sign deals with the PFL, the tournament is a part of their contract, you know, X amount of, what happens if I have a contract and I thought I was signing to be a part of a tournament that would give me X amount of dollars at the end of it? How do you now deal with that? I don't think it's going to be a big impediment. Okay. All right. So that's not going to be a huge thing. You won't have disgruntled fighters. That was a long before you came this year, early portion of 25. This was a bit of a theme where some names were kind of publicly saying they wanted out or they were frustrated. It seemed like a lot of the Bellator guys who came over. Only one recently, Larissa Pacheco, she just all of a sudden got released. A, can you tell us about that? And B, what do you gather? I know you were in Dubai, you know, what is the mood right now among the fighters? Do you think that that that, that, that, that, that, that ship has sailed, that storm has passed, and now it's more smooth sailing? I hope so.

I mean, look, after being here 62 days, I think I would be naive as to say that everything is looking smooth sailing. Right, right, right. That's my goal. Okay. And I know in the past that there was some, you know, there was a digestion or ingest,

I don't know what the right word is, of the Bellator fighter roster. And there were a lot of fighters that joined very, very quickly. And there were problems fighting them as frequently as I believe the fighters wanted to fight. So we've rationalized,

and all this happened before I got here, we've rationalized a lot of the roster. I think I'm pretty comfortable with where the fighter roster is now, and we want to utilize the fighters that we have and keep managing it in a way where we can give the fighters the best opportunity to make a career.

What happened with Pacheco? I don't want to get into the specific as that. I think for Larissa, we wanted to give her an opportunity to fight and possibly pursue weight class that we just didn't have a depth or quality fights for. Okay. What is the sweet spot number in terms of fighters on the roster?

I don't know if we're exactly at the sweet spot. We've got about 100 that we call global. Okay. And then we've got about another hundred and 25, 30 or so that are more like in the regional league structure system. So we have a 230. And you like that or do you want more? Do you want less?

Well, I want the best fighters. Right. I think we're at a quantity now, though, where it's manageable. And so what's interesting about that is there was a period maybe three, four, five years ago where PFO was very, I thought, aggressive in terms of signing free agents. And it would sometimes be guys like Aurora McDonald and Anthony Pettis who were ex-UFC guys a little bit, you know, back nine of the career, but who still kind of held some value. I don't feel that activity from the PFL's side of thing.

I don't see a lot of people saying that they're talking to the PFL. and I don't know if that's a conscious thing and I'll give you an example there's a guy named Gable Steven who's a big prospect former national champion heavyweight superstar university of Minnesota he just fought in something called

Dirty Boxing, a league that's run by the Cowah Brothers and Mike Perry and John Jones this past week and I was talking to his manager and I was like you know if I was saying if I was a promoter I would try to sign this guy last week like he has all the makings of a future

heavyweight superstar and I was like by the way have you guys talked to the PFL like Because he keeps talking about the UFC, but if I was the PFL, I would try to steal this guy, get him early. Maybe he's not quite ready for the UFC, but you get him early. Sometimes you have to pay a premium when you're that challenger brand to try to get the guy. And he said, no discussions. And that surprised me.

And so will we start to see the PFL be a little bit more aggressive with free agent signings like they were back in the day? Or do you want to just have homegrown stars that will take the mix of both? Okay. It really is a mix of both. I think, you know, as I looked at the qualities that PFL have or has, I wanted to know, you know, does it have the ability to create its own stars? So when you look at the likes of a Dakota Dichiva or Paul Hughes, those are great success stories where they were identified and developed in the PFL system. So I'd like the ability to find those people, but also be opportunistic and find really, really terrific fighters. I don't know the specifics of Gable story,

but if there's a really, really terrific fighter that can come in and we can sign and get into our fighter roster and it can work financially, then, yeah, of course. Why not do that? Without getting into specific roles, I'm just curious from like the mind of a very successful CEO.

When you come in, how much turnover is there going to be? Like, are you saying, like, we need more here? We need more. I sort of view you as someone coming in and like taking over a baseball team. And sometimes when there's a new regime, you want to bring in your own guys. And so, again, I understand we're talking about people's lives and jobs and things like that.

And I'm not suggesting you to fire anyone or anything like that. But how much of that is a part of the – I think as fans, we just think of the fighters. But there's a whole organization, right, that you're trying to make into a powerhouse as well. And so how much of your time is spent on that as well? It's been early days. But yeah, sure. I mean, that gets back to what I just said. I want to make sure the ambition is equal to the capabilities.

And I think the capabilities that PFL has today is really good. opportunistically could we look to fill in and maybe there are some talent gaps sure but I'm not looking we're not going to have a wholesale swap out of of the executives and the workers because the organization is is really working very very well together so yeah I may have a different opinion about where to put resources and right capabilities and I want to make sure you know we've got some some areas where I think we're going to need you know like I'm a media guy I want to put more emphasis on storytelling there's never been more and more ability to tell stories and and fighting is is a perfect runway for you know what gets people involved in the fight story are the stories who are the fighters you know what

what are their styles why are they fighting do they have beef with one another doing they're not I know as a boxing fan watching HBO 24 seven was like one of my favorite parts of of watching the run up to a fight so I'd like to I think we need to do more of that and we may need to build some capabilities on that front. And we need to, you know, we need to get more sophisticated like a lot of growing up companies doing data and how do you make decision making and how do we take the data and information that we get and make that informed decisions from that. And how do we take our social engagement, which is arguably better than it should be versus where our TV audiences and how do we build on that and then ultimately monetize that. So I have, you know,

really, really good fighter operations people and really, really good executives. I'm spending time in both because I'm accountable for everything. Right. But that is, it is, you have to think of it almost with two sides of your brain. It's like, no, no, no, this is a business.

So it can't just be worried about the fight. I wish I could spend more time with the fighters. It's actually fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It really is. That's why I was kind of in this. I'm like a kid in a candy story, like just getting to know these people.

And I was really, really surprised early on just how humble many of them are. and just how thankful they are that they're with the pfl and and it's very it that's near and dear to my heart yeah because it makes me feel like i'm doing something good in the world that we can provide these people with an opportunity they're great elite athletes but yeah it's got to be a business so i'm spending a lot of my time doing that too okay uh yeah for the most part they are all like really wonderful people that's they really other people i've met are extraordinary human beings um i remember when the beltor acquisition was made official uh don david

was actually on this program, and he dubbed the PFL as the co-leader, and this has been a term that has kind of, I don't want to say followed him, but has been brought up a lot, like, you know, how dare you compare yourself to the UFC or say that you're a co-leader? Do you agree? Do you think that the co-leader? Co-leader. Do you agree with that sentiment? That's a word. I'm not going to, I'm not going to take issue with what Don said. I am very, very respectful of the UFC. I think I've even been quoted as saying, yet, yes, we're in the same business as them, but we can succeed at PFL by continuing to help grow the category and just be more successful at doing what we're doing. I think there's plenty of room for multiple successful MMA organizations.

UFC is a clear leader. So I probably wouldn't be brash enough to say we're the co-leader. We're not. But we have ambition to grow and be bigger and more valuable. And that's what's energizing me and getting me excited every day. And so you mentioned your media background and that leads us to 2026 and what a massive year it is, right? This is the final year on your current deal with ESPN. I did see an interview that you did, you were over in the UAE, right, recently, and you did talk about the relationship with ESPN and correct me if you feel like I'm miscategorizing your sentiment, but it seemed like you felt like they could push you a little bit more, market you a little bit more and promote you guys a little bit more. Is that an accurate assessment of what you said?

Yes, I think it is. And I'm not looking to pick a fight with them because I think It's a blessing that PFL is on the ESPN platform. But we were on the same platform as UFC. And again, you know, paying respects to the leader, the marketing, the promotion, the consistent scheduling went to UFC and we didn't get that. Our scheduling consistency has been very uneven. We share time between ESPN1 and ESPN2 and arguably it's been more on ESPN2. We don't get very much marketing and promotion. And if I'm trying to build the brand, you know, my question for ESPN and haven't really started discussions with them, because I'm going to want to know, do they want to be in mixed martial arts or do they not?

And I hope the answer is yes. And I would like 2006 to be a great demonstration that we can be fantastic partners. But as I think about beyond 2026, you know, our goals are really not any different than what UFC's goals were. It's yet more money. That's, of course, very, very important. But we would love to be with a distributor who really wants to help us build our company because we're going to help them grow their audiences. And MMA and PFL has very attractive audiences for a network and bigger audiences

that I think people understand. So it should be, it should work both ways. But I would want ESPN to try to help us help them if that's what they want. And that means consistent scheduling, marketing, and promotion. and those are all going to be, you know, part of the consideration set. It's a very dynamic marketplace right now. Again, I think the UFC Paramount deal is terrific. And I think it validates mixed martial arts as a sports proposition.

I think early days of me talking with Dana every now and then and him saying that so much of his discussions with anybody was trying to convince them that mixed martial arts was actually a real sport and a viable sporting category. Well, thank you, Dana. I don't think anybody really needs to talk about that anymore. MMA is now a mainstream sport. And as I met with our international media partners

a couple of weeks ago in Monaco at Sportel, I heard consistently from about a dozen of them that they're all looking for a combat sports vertical. They all want to be in this business. I was very encouraged because here I am, showing up as the new CEO, PFL, everybody that we talk to who's not in business with UFC, which is most everybody, is saying, no, we would love to be in business with you. Like we're trying to solve for a combat sports

vertical. And oh, by the way, can you come and do an event in our city? You know, it's, it's heartening because it would be different if we showed up and nobody wanted to be in business with us or they weren't interested in the product that we have. Everybody seems interested. Now it's a part, then it comes down to business. Like, okay, how do you organize your resources and prioritize what are you trying to accomplish and make sure in your limited amount of time and energy and capabilities? How do you point them in the direction that gives us the best returns? So, you know, I look forward to engaging with ESPN. It's a little early, so it's not like they're ignoring. Is it early? I wonder about that. Like, sometimes you see a deal. I remember

when WWE announced their Netflix deal was about like a year out. I suspect that discussions will likely begin soon. Okay. Are you free to talk to anyone yet or are you still in? Okay. When does that kick in? Beginning of next year will be, this is an exclusivity period. I don't know if it's public, so I don't want to. Sure, sure, sure. But it runs through the beginning of next year. And then, and then listen, I mean, there's arguably more potential parties interested in, in U.S. M.A. rights now than in memory. Okay.

You've got, well, you've got, I'm out the usual suspects, and I don't know again if they're going to be interested or not, but, you know, there's Netflix, there's Amazon, those are global platforms. there's Apple, although I don't know what their interest level would be. And I don't, would love to talk to them, though. Yeah. I've had very constructive. Well, there's two entry, the baseball and the, the, the, the, the MLS, I don't know how good it was, but now they're with F1, right? Yeah, F1 would be interesting.

Right. It's a great deal for them. Yeah. It's going to be really, really interesting to see. But then you look at the more traditional broadcasters, you've got NBC is splitting itself into two. Yeah. Don't know what their ambition is going to be. Fox, and Fox has some pretty.

ambitious sports desires and they're talking about sports over the top vertical and there is an old home of yours that is out there right it's not quite structured the same but what did that be a story that would be a story yeah so i'd love to engage with them and talk to them i mean i don't know who they're going to be owned by or they're in the process of splitting in two of course yeah so yeah i mean they've they've got you know they've got big ambitions they're back in wrestling and so there's i i there's a lot of people to potentially call on. And then, of course, there's new distributors as well as the likes of Fubo or Roku or other types of YouTube. UFC leaving ESPN. Is that good for PFL or bad? Well, I don't want to be presumptuous. I could certainly make an argument it's good for us.

As long as ESPN wants to stay in MMA, I think we're a terrific, viable alternative. You understand why I ask that question, though, right? Because if they lose UFC, I wonder if they just say, hey, we're going to take a break from MMA. That's what I said. And that decision I can't necessarily influence. If they want to be in sports, not yet. Not yet. So the conversations have been very brief at this moment.

I know you just said like 60-something days you're in. I mean, we've been focused on just finalizing the 26th schedule. So that's what we're doing. And they've been really good to work with. Not yet. Not yet. It's close. But in terms of venues and things like that?

And dates. Well, we start to, you know, the venues, especially here in the U.S., like there was the Universal Studios shows, which I thought was a big mistake, and then, like, smaller venues. And then you look at the shows over in France or something like that, and it's like a whole different company. Will we start to see the PFL be held in, like, the prudential centers of the world?

You know, some of these bigger venues here in America as opposed to the smaller ones. That's the direction I'd like to move in. Okay. I looked at, I mean, I was in Dubai. The first event I was live. We had 10,000 people in an arena. The place had a lot of energy.

Yeah. We've done 17,000 in Paris. there's no reason why we can't replicate that here, but then we've got to bring in the same level of talent of fighters. Sure. And I think the world tournament sub-optimized that. Yes. So that's going to be the goal.

Okay. Moving that direction. Yes. Maybe it doesn't happen overnight, right? Because you've got to start to build up. Yeah, yeah. You've got to elevate the brand. But those are global events.

There's no reason why you can't do in the U.S. Other than the U.S. is a little bit more jaded in terms of a sports market. Yeah, and maybe there's more nationalism and all, that stuff over there. Exactly. But like, it's striking to me, like, we'll watch this event in Lyon in December, and it will come across as a completely different company. Yes. As an event here in Atlantic City or, you know what I mean? I think the organization is energized on elevating our profile in the U.S. Okay. I think it's really important. It'll help us in our U.S. media rights discussions. I think a lot of rights partners will be surprised

because they're probably paying less attention of what we're doing internationally. But internationally, I mean, it's a sub, you know, it's a comparable product to what UFC is doing. Is there, is there a world where you do more events internationally than here in America, where you become more of a European brand, for example, than an American brand? Because it's so successful over there? I think the answers will wait and see. Okay. I would like to make a goal, a real goal of it in the U.S.

Because I like to, you know, let's face it, where's the big media money? It's in the U.S. Yeah, yeah. So I'd rather fish where the fish are. but but pfl is as being quite successful outside the u.s and there's a lot of areas like in in Dubai and UAE and and Saudi and in in France France doing really really well yeah where you look and you see the scale of the events that we're successfully putting on and the gates are growing and the fan base is growing and you say okay if if we don't crack the code in the

U.S., which I believe we will, but there's a big viable business outside the U.S. Going back to the media rights deal for a moment, is there a number in your mind that you think this is worth for you in the U.S.? I always like to say what makes the market is we'd like to have two bidders at least. Yeah. You know, I can do math. So you look at comparables and you say this audience, take a discount because we're not the biggest brand.

I mean, so yeah, there's a number. It's meaningfully higher than where. we're at right now. Yeah. Is that public? No. No. Could I ask what it is?

No. Okay. I took a shot. And regarding, you know, we're starting to see, I think WVE was kind of the first ones to do this where it's like, hey, the benefit of being on Netflix is that when we promote it on our broadcast, we tell the world it's on Netflix, right? UFC now trying to do the same thing with Paramount Plus. We just saw their deal in Australia and Latin America.

Does the ESPN deal, that takes time to line it up? Does your ESPN deal line up with other territories, or are we just, like, is the big one USA for 26 and the other ones are kind of set for now? For now, they're staggered. Okay. But this is the media world that I came from, which is as you gain strength, then you'd probably prefer them to all be lined up. Yeah.

And I've spent a big part of my career studying how to do that. But for now, I think it's to our advantage to keep them staggered. Okay. Okay. And I don't know how much you paid attention to the Top Rank saga, Top Rank being the boxing. Not a little bit. Only to ask, Top Rank was on ESPN. They haven't had an event since July. Here we are early November. They still don't have a broadcast home. That's very rare. Like usually you find out months before it ends. And I was wondering if that gave you any pause for, hey, yeah, yeah, I know that there are a lot of homes out there, potential homes. But no one's buying a legendary boxing brand gives me a little bit of pause. I was wondering how you digested that. I don't, you know, I haven't spent all that much time thinking about it

because I think every situation is different. Okay. So I don't know, to be completely honest. I think I have confidence in the PFL brand in our league and in the events that we're going to be putting on, the audiences that will deliver the desirability of those audiences. I don't know anything about that for top. Sure, sure, sure.

And for some partner who has real sports ambition, I think we could be a really, really good partner to be with. I believe in this. That's why I'm here. I'll ask you just a few more questions and let you go. And I really appreciate the insight in time. It's rare to get this type of insight. Could I ask, in 2025, will the company be profitable? Not yet.

Not yet. How far away are you from that? Probably 27. Okay. That's not too bad. But you're comfortable with where you're at. Yeah. Okay.

Francis Inganu is obviously the biggest name in the company. How would you describe the state of the relationship? Because I've heard you talk in media that you did before going to Dubai. I believe I saw you guys there. At least I saw him with Don, which was... I met with him there. I met with him last week. Last week?

In Dubai, again. Okay, great. I don't have anything to announce yet. He's a huge priority for us. Francis will be fighting in 26. How was the meeting? It was cordial. It was good.

Okay. I mean, he knows we want to put something in front of him that's going to be good for him and good for us. Okay, and so you think he will fight for the PFL in 26? Yes. Yeah, because he still has one fight left on the deal, right? Okay, and you felt a willingness and an open, you know, dialogue from him. Francis wants to fight.

Yeah, okay. He's embroiled in a war of words with Jake Paul this morning. I saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good fun, but that would be boxing. Yeah, exactly. This is part of the game. What about Jake and the relationship with PFL? I don't I don't you know that's one in my 60 some days I haven't met Jake yet I haven't spoken to him

and so I know what his relationship is with Don and and with Peter Murray and I don't know you know I got to ask the question I think 12 days into my new gig they're like well was Jake going to fight MMA and I have no idea okay okay but he has a relationship with the PFL if he ever does anything in mixed martial arts I would love for it to be with the PFL but I have no insight or or any anything that I could add to that. Okay. And he's got, he's got his own thing to solve right now, too. It's unfortunate what happened. Yes. This is a very sort of like nerdy fight granular thing, but just curious your thoughts. Uniforms. How do you feel about uniforms in the PFL? Uh, I want to take, I want to continue to look at it. Uh, you know, we have, we have a relationship with takedown. I just met the CEO there. He was a very dynamic guy. Uh, I want to take, uh, you know, he's a very dynamic guy, he's very well-respected. But I believe, forget it, let's look bigger than

uniforms. Yep. One of the things I think that's so amazing about the fight game is that to tap into the personalities of fighters. And I think we, PFL need to do a better job. Again, with my media sensibilities of storytelling and understanding who these people are and letting them exert their own personality. And part of that is I think when you put a uniform on somebody, sometimes it's sort of, I don't know, it's, I, I liked back in the OG days of UFC, seeing them walk out in their own gear and everything. Like so, but I hate it. How do you, just for the record, just so you know where I'm coming from. You don't like the uniforms? Despise it. It actually makes me mad. It makes me mad. It, like, it enrages me because to your

point, I loved seeing Mike Tyson come out on the all black and the towel. That was terrifying. As a fan, I mean, terrifying in a good way. Yeah, it was, that was so ominous to see him in the black shorts, no socks, and the switcher. Why would you strip that? There's a very easy solution to all of this. And I hate that the UFC does it as well. But like GSP walking out on his ghee is cool in the headband. I like that, too, as a fan.

Yes. So if you have a deal with, say, a takedown, okay, yeah, you put a takedown logo on there, everyone wins. Why do they all have to look the same? Why do we want them to look like football players with helmets and you can't tell the difference between everyone else it it doesn't make sense you can't there used to be a fighter named joanne calderwood and and she's from scotland and when she first came into ms she would fight like in a in a Scottish you know kilt and like everyone was like this is freaking awesome right and if you're a fight if you're a fan from scotland you're like that's one of my own you know what

I mean like now i love her now i want to follow her and support her she walks in there with a take down shorts and like she looks like everyone else unless you hear her speak you have no idea she's from Scotland. Right. So I understand your point. And as a fan, I said, I like, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to know who I want to follow. I want to know who I want to follow. I want to know who I want to invest my time with. And I want to know who to root for. Right. So part of that is, is that, is that. I like, you know, I like, you know, I like that. You know, I mean, I just bring it back to, you know, this speaks to my soul. Are you talking about like old school, just walk through the crowd? I'd like to have. Yes. Enough of this. Ramp nonsense. Yes. Is that what we're going to see in 26? Possibly. Oh, this is great. That's all we need. We want the fans reaching over and all that. Oh, I could not agree more. This, listen, this is very promising stuff. I like the vision here. I like the vision. Are you the face of the PFL now? Are you the guy who's going to be up there? People keep asking me that. I don't know. I mean, so I am who I am who I am a business person who's a big fan and who's been in and around media for a long time. I mean, it's When I was a CFO and between Wall Street and press and CEO of Turner, I did tons of media, I don't mind doing it. I like sitting down and talking about the business.

You could see how excited I am. It's better than looking at spreadsheets. But, you know, people like, are you going to try to be Dana White? I can't be who I'm not. Right. And there is arguably no other person like Dana. So I'm not going to try to do something

that's not authentic to who I am. I do think we need a bit more promotion. Now, whether I'm that person or I'll find somebody else who could possibly come in and be that person or maybe we have somebody in the organization that could be anointed to be that person. I don't know the answer yet. I think it should be you. Can I tell you why? Because when you speak, I believe that you are the one making the decisions. Right. I understand. So you can't put a figurehead up there because if I'm asking the figurehead in this specific instance, he's in the back of his mind saying, oh, I can't say anything because I don't want to upset John or Don. Right. I do

understand that so so I think you whether you like it or not I think you have to be the guy at this point and I'm wondering if you're comfortable being the guy at the day is telling the world you have to watch this show or being in front of the fighters and all that stuff yeah I'd be I'd be fine doing okay is that what you're going to do I I think so because I think you did it in Dubai right did it in Dubai yeah were you okay with that yeah it was fine here you are like a month into your job and you're standing in between Usman and Paul Hughes yeah I like that okay that was fun that was a tough one as far as the score cards were concerned there was that one scorecard the 50 to 45 and I thought I know you guys aren't the ones any MMA fan knows that but I felt like it was a black eye on the on the fight and I felt like the promotion needed to distance itself from it well again we don't control the judges yeah and and I understand what you're saying I will tell you being in the arena lots of people saw it differently I actually saw it I didn't see it 5-0 yeah no but I thought I thought I thought U Usman won the fight.

Yeah, no, 40, 47 Newsman is a very fair. It was a close fight. Yeah, 50 to 45. Paul did it, Paul did it really nice. It was a good fight. It was an entertaining fight. Right. By the way, did you hear from Dana White since you took this job?

No. Your old friend? No. He didn't congratulate you, wish you well. We weren't that close. I mean, Dana's, you know, he's got a lot going on right now. Okay. So I look forward about paths crossing and I want to thank him because it's partly he's the reason

why I've always been so interested in the sport. And it's hard to look at what he's. done and not be incredibly impressed. Then as a fan, like he built this category. I mean, he's one of the primary reasons why it is what it is. So for that, this is why this is such a fun opportunity to be in. Okay. Last one. What is the message? And perhaps this message is for the hardcore PFL fan. And perhaps it's for the fan who checked out the PFL and kind of just lost, you know, belief in it. Because we've, we talked to them all here, right? And this is the hardest of the hardcore and and pfl became in my opinion a bit of a whipping boy so to speak because like fans

didn't like the direction it felt too confusing as we talked about earlier new time new regime new era new face of the company new CEO what is the message now to either the hardcores who have held on or maybe the lapsed fan i think judges by what's to come i really do i appreciate those people that have hung in i think you know again still a relatively young company but you know i'm I have ambition to really make this a bona fide, you know, valuable global sports league, where people are going to talk about it and talk about PFL and get really, really excited about it. I mean, that's what I'm here to do. And we have all the building blocks to do.

Now we just need to execute. Well, I wish you the best. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Really great talking to meeting you for the first time and wish you guys the best. So one more event in 2025. That's December 13.

Global event. Global event. Right, and there's the Africa. Yeah, and one more in the Middle East. So this is the lineup. It's a phenomenal card, December 13th in Lyon, which they held a WWE event in this venue two years ago, and it's maybe the best crowd that I've ever heard

for any combat sports event. Like they were singing and dancing the entire time. I'm excited. So can't wait to see how that all looks and comes across on television, and then can't wait for all the announcements. Will we start to hear about the 2026 plans this year or next year? Hopefully this year.

First event of 26th? When do you think it will be American event? I don't know if it'll be in January, but it will be close. Okay, so first month or so. Yeah. All right. All the best, John. Thank you so much.

Really appreciate it. We'll take a quick break. Say goodbye to John. Be back with Al Jermaine Sterling. Don't go anywhere. Okay, back on the program. That was our very own E.K.C. Leiden, who's working on another project for us right now that will come out next week, making his

B-I-T-B debut? And what about John Martin? A breath of fresh air, I do say so. I really do feel like he's got the right mindset, like the ideas. A fitting interview on this decision day, 2025, right? It felt like these are his policies. This is what he believes in. And now it's time, obviously, he's not campaigning, but now it's time to put them into practice. So I thought it was, I thought it was promising stuff. I don't know if anyone's back there. Is anyone back here? Oh yeah, what'd you guys think? Yeah, we're here, man.

What do you guys think? It was great. I like the stuff about the walkouts. I love the stuff about getting rid of the tournaments, simplifying things. This is all very promising stuff, in my opinion. Maybe the uniform's going away, too? What? Yeah, I'm looking forward to the future of the PFL.

It'll be interesting to see where the broadcast deal ends up. It'll be interesting to see what changes they implement over the next year. It feels like he's very optimistic about what can unfold. I also feel like he's very realistic as well, which is great. Yes. You know what I also like? You know, I asked him the co-leader thing. He's very, very, he's not trying to be confrontational towards the UFC.

He's not trying to pick a fight. He's not trying to disparage. No sneaky shots like, hey, they're doing their thing. Much respect. You've been doing it way longer than us. We're going to do our thing and, and just focus on growing our brand. I think that's the right way to go. Just there's, there's enough out there to be, they are number two by default.

So act like number two. and put on the second best product in the sport and sometimes you'll put on really, really great events and I think that that's what they should be you know, that's what they should be focusing on. Now there's a couple of other items that I wanted to get to before we get to Al Jermaine Sterling. I saw this tweet via Damon Martin of M.A. fighting

quoting something in variety saying that the UFC White House card won't just be a fight event, quote, dignitaries from around the world will attend a dinner and then head to the octagon to watch the fights alongside President Donald Trump

and Dana White. How about that? That's fun, right? I wonder if we'll be invited. I was just wondering the same thing, yeah. Send me a plate, Dutte. Also, I'm seeing this, Damon Martin, reporting this

from the world of cinema, Hollywood. Did you guys hear? Breaking News, Frank. Roadhouse 2 coming out. How about that? You guys excited about this? Hype. Yes.

Attendees of the premiere of the first one. I can't wait for this one. And they're claiming... What about this twist? What about this twist? No Connor McGregor, but former foe, Dustin Porier and potential future foe, Michael Chandler in the film,

also appearing... Tyrone Woodley's... He's already did! Stephen Wonderboy Thompson and Michael Venom Page. It's like a full MMA film. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't, didn't McGregor, oh, no, no, no, I was going to say, I thought he'd die. Yeah, I was going to, don't want any spoilers, yeah, but then he walks out of the end. Yeah, it's like two years old.

As shown in the, yeah, in the hospital gown at the end, yeah, so he lives, but now we won't get to see him. That's a bummer. It definitely seemed like they were implying that he was dead, and then it ends with him walking out. I don't know. I'm sure there'll be some kind of explanation given, but what about the fact that it's Porier, that it's Chandler, who don't like each other. like each other. Does that feel like a little bit of a dig? Why, why does it have to be two guys? I know. It's weird. Woodley, he had his thing with Woodley 205. Also, who the fuck is we? How are they going to get along on the side? That's what I'm saying. Like,

they actually don't like each other of these guys. At least I thought they are former foes in their own right. Woodley out there, MVP, was there a fifth one? Wonderboy. Wonderboy. What's Wonderboy going to do? I feel like he's going to be the nice guy in the movie. Yeah. So is it just MMA guys? Or is, is Jillian? Hall in there? Oh, yeah, Jillenhall's in there. Oh, he is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. So, why no Connor?

You think they couldn't come to terms? Or maybe he's... It's a hard bowl to wrangle these days. Yeah, he's off social media. No problem, man, yeah? Yeah, he's locked in. He's absolutely locked in. So anyway, still to come on the program,

Mark Montoya is going to join us the head coach over at Factory X. He is also the man who was cornering. Isaac Delgarian on Saturday, this now much talked about fight, which is at the center of this gambling controversy. And I have more intel, more information on that. So stay tuned for that. Tomorrow we'll do on the nose, by the way. So I know that the last couple of weeks we did it on Tuesday. It worked better this week on Wednesday. The post is up right now, by the way, over at

ariawhalawani.substack.com. So please go there right now if you want to leave a question. question comment or two. Now, without further ado, let us go to our next guest. He's had a very busy month or so. He was cornering his very good friend, Marab Duolishvili, about exactly a month ago on a Saturday night, and then on a Sunday night, he got married. How about that? Amazing stuff. The former UFC bantamweight champion current UFC featherweight contender, the funk master Al Jermaine Sterling is here. I can't wait to see what he looks like. Oh, yeah, look at this. so now we got rid of the stash well married man

I'm off the market area I can't do this anymore no I understand but the stash was really throwing me off but now no stash and we just went or is this part of getting the beard back trying to get the beard back

I don't record again and film again until the 26th this month and then the first and second of December so I can't be walking around looking like a dirty Sanchez and what was that for We're doing a movie with Jamie Fox is called Fife 84

About the Olympic boxing team that had died Well not them but the team after them So they passed on the plane crash And then the team after them Like Ponell Whitaker Yeah That whole thing Mark Breeland, Tillman So it's pretty cool

Well I believe this is a Netflix film right I've read about this Netflix yeah yeah Chris Algerie is working on it from like a fight standpoint Is that accurate Yeah, he's the stunt coordinator. Stunk coordinator. Him and Johnny C.

So shout out to them for bringing me in. This was literally, I literally left the day after my wedding, and I almost bailed because one, one, I was super hungover, and then two, they asked me to cut my hair to a two-thirty. I'm like, bro, I've been growing this since 2015. You guys asked me if I could trim. I said I would trim, but a full-on haircut. That's a, you know, stay-to-my heart, man. Yeah.

And so, wait, so what is your role? I'm an alternate so I don't actually have any lines in this movie this is my third movie but no lines I'm kind of like I'm a stunt boxer guy in this and one of the alternate fighters that is on the team but not really he's like if someone gets hurt I step in I'm kind of like the punching bag got it okay this is fun okay so another exciting thing happening you're like by the way how was the wedding and the world

should know that when I joked about you know the save the date and whatnot you did in fact send me an invitation to the wedding, even like a pre-wedding party as well. I mean, you sent it all. So I appreciate that. You're a mensch. How did it all go down? How was it? It was good, man. Everyone had such a great time. Steve Ayoki came out. He was the guest DJ. Wow. Prize guest DJ. And I was just depending back and forth, my wife and I talking about like, should we spend the money on this? It's not too much. He's doing us a big favor, but does it make sense to spend it on this? But she's like, yeah, it would be memorable. It was a great time. Friends and family from all

over the world. Mackenzie Dern came out like two weeks before her fight. Duanejana, J-Tec, Tiofima Lopez. It was just like star-spitted, man. Rob there, Jamal Hill. Like it was, it was great. Of course, my friends and family from middle school, high school, Rebecca's family, some people I haven't met yet. All know, just a great time, great energy. And I don't think I've ever danced as much that night as I, like, that was the most I think I've ever danced in a night before. That's amazing, man. Very happy for you guys And Funk Harbor at the bar. Everyone loved it.

It was the hit. All the different kinds? That's why everyone was dancing so much. Did you have all the different kinds of it, styles? Like, I don't know what you call it. The flavors. Yeah, like, I guess the skews or flavors. But yeah, we had the white and we had the dark.

We did like his or her drink, special tea, signature cocktail. We did an espresso martini. And then we did a Mai Tai. Hers was the espresso. Mine was the Mai Tai. I like the Mai Tai because it was really strong. We got the white and the dark. And it just makes for a good night, you know, good little punch.

Did she have any issues with you cornering Marab the night before your wedding? Not any issues, just more like trying not to get your face scratched up before the photos. Thankfully, there was two guys. My guy right there is Shane right next to me. He helped out with someone of grappling and stuff. I did a lot of the striking work with him. And then he did a lot of grappling stuff, thinking that Corey Sanaghan was going to do a lot more inverted eminari rolls and things like that which he didn't surprisingly um so he took some beating

off of what i had to deal with so i think that kind of balanced out did the fight go as you thought it was going to um i thought there would have been more so that i would say yes or no i thought cori did some really good things and i thought he did some things he didn't do some things that we kind of expected him to do that probably would have made the fight a little bit more tricky um but all in all I thought from a friend, a coach, a teammate standpoint, I think it was as good of a fight as you can ask for, especially in the second round. The man says he's going to go out there and knock him out

and almost knocks him out. I mean, you can't ask for anything better than that. With this whole thing happening, you kind of wonder if the fight should have been stopped. We'll get to that in a moment. Some guys might think I'm actually serious because they don't get my humor. People don't get my humor.

We'll get to that in a moment. But I do, I do want to ask you, how do you feel about Marab coming back so quickly for title fights in 2025, two months after this fight, one month away? There's, I think, a fear perhaps that it's too much in a short amount of time. I know he's built different. As his good friend and training partner, how do you feel? I had these concerns as well. I spoke to him about this when we were in New York after we finished sparring. We did four rounds.

I kind of just came off the couch because he just hit me up. like, hey, I'm going to be in town. Can you come train with me? I was like, fuck. I thought I had a little bit of downtime. Yeah, so we talked afterwards, and I was like, dude, but like my main concern is that you're going to be healthy and a good mental mindset going into this fight. It's not the fact that you can't train and get ready for the fight.

It's just a lot. It's a lot of mental energy. The training, obviously, five-round training camps, making sure all your training partner is going to be there because for me, I had to get my stem cells. So I'm actually going to be out of this fight camp for most of it until like the last two weeks, which is pretty much the work is already done, right? So he's got good training partners. We already had that conversation.

He says he feels good. He just doesn't want to sit around too long because then he gets busy doing other stuff and then gets out of shape. And he's like, I want to stay busy. And this is an opportunity for him to do something that no one's ever done before in a calendar a year. So I think he said that made me feel a lot better. You know, I'm being honest, transparent about it.

but I had to voice my opinions and my concern. You know, it's just like, you know, I hope you're not taking this for like any odd or weird reason. And no, he just wants to compete and good for him, you know. So as long as she's feeling good, that's the only thing you can ask for it. Because I already know what it's like to get into a fight where you don't want to actually fight, but he actually wants to fight. So it could be bad.

But of course, I think as long as he's doing the work, he's training as hard as he's training. I think he's going to be prepared. But he owes us all vacation after this. his training partners need a break too you know that's a good point people don't think about that the fact that he knows peter he went five rounds with him does that help make the decision for him like if this was a brand new opponent that he's never met before corey let's say you know a couple months ago would that be a different choice in your opinion would he would he be making a bigger mistake um it's hard to say what that guy's thinking in his head you know uh maybe he

would want a little bit more time or it's but it's yeah it's really hard to say I can't speak for him um he's a gamer man he'll fight anyone he'll spar guys I remember when he first came to the gym at longos he was sparring the heavy weights like he's just like you said built different he's different mentality I'm like dude I don't want to get punched by these guys it's not that I think that they're going to try to kill me it's just I don't want to get punched by these guys he doesn't mind it like he's just different it's just different it's just different Yes. I think that's the best way to describe Marab. So Aljo, you were in the news last week a little bit, maybe intentionally or unintentionally post Tom Aspinall fight. And the general sentiment was Al Jermaine Sterling is weighing in on this and accusing Tom of faking. Was that it or did we not get it? What? Explain yourself here. I literally, everything was between the lines. I don't even know where the fans got off and they get. Like, I understand if you misunderstood, but trying to.

to say I have no place to talk about something like that. Oh, no. I was literally fouled. Yeah, no. You definitely in a place. Yes. And intentionally and not intentionally in the sense that, oh, I'm trying to illegally need this guy in the head because I want to just fuck him up. Intentionally,

like you intentionally meant to throw it with a need. You know, it wasn't an accident like an eye poke with inadvertent, right? That happens. But what I'm saying is I have the right to talk about something like that because I know how it feels when you have the world doubting you and thinking that you're lying about something. And then I tie it everything in, I go, people might think I'm on Tom Aspinall's side, but what I'm, what I wasn't

on his side was, I think the way that he handled the situation was why a lot of the fans got upset. And especially as a fighter, I can see why the fighters give him flack. Because the first words out of his mouth was, I can't see. And you know, once you say that, at least you should know that, right? As a fighter, you're a champion now, you've been to interim chair, you've before all these guys, you've seen enough fights. You understand how the rules are played. And the moment you say, I can't see, even Herzog tried to pretend like he didn't hear it almost.

Like, I'm going to give you more time because that is the nail in the coffin. Once you tell that to the ref, I got to wave the fight off. That is what they say, at least. So why would your first few words out of your mouth be, I can't see? So again, not discrediting. And Tom, he got poked in the eye, double zoinked. I know he can't see. But at least say, hey, I just got poke.

Give me a few seconds. Hey, I just got pulled. Let me take some time to see if you guys. better. That's all I'm saying. And at the end of that, I said, hey, only Tom Aspin knows how bad he was truly hurt. I don't know if he was faking. I can't say he was faking. I can see the eye in the knuckle going to his eyeball. Can't fake that. So, and this, this thumbnail was hilarious because I was joking with my camera guy with Jake. And I was like, should I take it like this? I'm making, I'm poking fun at it, right? But I didn't think he was going to actually use the

thumbnail. But when he posted, I was like, oh, it's kind of funny. It's kind of my personality. So it's It's not like I'm being a dick. I'm just having a little bit of a laugh. And people got mad about that, too. I'm like, you guys just don't get my humor. If you don't get my humor, I get it. But I'm not doing anything malicious whatsoever. I like Tom Ashmore.

We actually kind of hung out at the, was it the MSG fights or was it the Vegas fight? I think it was the Vegas fights. We saw each other. Met his dad. Cool, dude. I got no ill will against this guy. He got fucking fouled. But it's just ironic how his teammate says, I never fouled anybody,

pokes the guy in the eye, then gets knocked out right after it was just like, Yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy. But your video came out before all of that. And so I guess the sentiment was, the sentiment was like you got so much heat for your situation because people said that you were faking. And so to imply that he was maybe looking for a way out or something like that, it felt like. Did you think, did you hear the, did you hear the take? Yeah, yeah, I heard it. So I think I was applying that he faked. No. Because I feel like I didn't. But I like to understand from your standpoint. Here's here's. Here's. Here's. Here's what I thought you were going to do, and then I'll tell you what it sounded like. What I thought you were going to do was like, look, man, I've been there before when the whole world thinks that you're faking or looking for a way out or anything like that. Like, I sympathize with him. It's a shitty situation. Trust me, just like I wanted to fight, he wanted to fight.

Obviously, your situations were different. That was the first round. Yours was the fourth round, I think, off the top of my head and all that stuff. you opened the door for I think some sort of like you know conspiracy to be discussed or at least the thought to be put out there that maybe in fact he was embellishing or something like that and and my take on it was I feel like that situation is so far behind you I think you've done such a great job of coming back from that situation and it's one of those things where post O'Malley fight I think people now like have an appreciation for you and like you I think the chat that you

had with DC got people to learn a lot more about your story and who you are and they respect you. And I was like, Alja, why are you doing this? Why are you reopening this wound, so to speak? You know what I mean? Why are you being the bad guy here? Because you know how people take a little clip and run with it and then be like, ah, F this guy, man. We, you know, we just got over. It was so weird. I'm like, I don't think I said anything that was questionable. I'm watching as a fan. I'm a fighter, but I'm also watching as a fan. I'm like, I could, and I, everything I say, like I'm saying to you now, I said it in the video. I talked about my meat to the head and how everyone was against me and thought I was lying, thought I was partying, where I'd never

partied. I had people at my house who flew in to watch me fight. What am I going to do? Ignore them and tell them to get the hell out of my house? No, I can't do that. I did not party. And then on top of that, with Aspinall, what the weird part about it is, I go, the fight wasn't going well. And as a fan, as someone who does a podcast and breaks down to analyze his fights. I don't think the fight was going that well in his favor. Yeah, the stats could say they were three strikes apart. No, it wasn't. Those guys are always counting those stats wrong. That fight, the better strikes and the guy who looked like he was winning, to my opinion, was Cyril Ghan, the guy that no one gave a chance to win the fight, right? So now the fight's

a little bit tougher than he expects. So as a fan and as a fighter, I'm wondering, is there anything to do with his decision because of that? Because now you've got to fight this guy for four more rounds. If it was the fourth round and you were losing the fight and you had to stay in the fight otherwise you know you're going to lose a decision

because of the foul, you're not going to just turn it over and say, I can't see it, right? Because you're just automatically lost. You're going to try to fight. So I'm looking at this from multiple angles

and I'm explaining all of this and somehow I'm still the asshole. I'm like, dude, I'm not saying the guy's faking. All I'm saying is the fight wasn't going well, why should he fight like that? The only person who could know

how bad it actually was is Tom Aspinall himself. So if he says he can't see, guess what? The guy can't fucking see. Why are you guys giving him a hard time and then trying to say I'm, I'm discrediting it. I'm like, dude, if anyone understands that as me, so why would I do that? I'm like, did you guys actually listen to what I'm saying? Or you're just so mad that I got kneading the head and I won the belt by DQ. That doesn't even matter what I say. And that's what I think it is. But what about what about the actual? I don't think I really gave a hard time.

Well, what about the actual procedure here? Like, what's up? What's up? What are you laughing at? No, Charlie showed me gloves. which gloves which gloves Charlie Kim will show me gloves to protect the eyes they're like the fingers that get wrapped oh geez okay so what is your take on this what is your take on this

this eye poke thing because I've said it so I'll just bring you up to speed I believe you you poke someone in the eye you know that you you stop the fight for a moment you see if the guy's okay if he can continue if he's able to continue you take away a point right away

no more warnings none of this crap, the warning is in the back, you take a point right away. If the guy can't continue, fight is over via DQ. That's it. None of this intentional, unintentional nonsense. How do you feel? What's your thoughts? I think if you rule it right away, fight is over via DQ. Not right away. That's only if he can continue. If he can't, if he can't, but I'm saying if that happens like in the first two minutes or the second round or the third round, and now what if you were losing and you were getting your ass kick the whole time and then you get, okay you lost

I get that but it's also it's a very I've never poked anyone in the eye and knock on wood because I'm not trying to be Delasia Delia Delia I'm not trying to be him and then poke someone in my very next fight

because that's just like how does that even happen how ironic of a world do we live in it's like a simulation how does that happen like your training partner you never poke someone your training partner doesn't continue this guy continues you're the one that commissed and then you get finished. Wow.

You can't write that. You can't script that. I thought that was mishandled too, by the way. Yeah, because it looked like it was a TKO at first. I know he was pretty upset about that. And I don't blame them, but these reps are human. They make mistakes. We say time and time again, you know, just like.

A lot of mistakes these days. A lot. Earlier in that card, they missed a tap. Dude was tapping like five, six times. Matt Frivolta. Matt Frivolta. Murgliata stopped the map for Volta fight with three seconds left in the first round

a couple weeks ago then he's like no no no I thought I heard the horn restarts it like what is this these are the best rest area no best breaths in the game these are the golden standard of MMA remember that's what we're told

same dudes that we've been seeing for 10 15 years like where's the new blood yeah and they can't make mistakes it's like their eyes are starting to fill them or something or maybe and let me not do that what's that what's that no i'll just say you know the gate that's happening right now oh yeah what do you make of this

what do you make of this um but sorry just to clarify we just went all over the world there we did we did pull the jo rogan um i i and i did like the piece that you said about um ronda and that thing too there's a lot to unpack on that too but um i do think you should get the point to doctor right away the dq part right out of the gate they can't continue that part is a little tough for me. Maybe he should go to a no contest. The only thing I don't like it, it should be up to somewhat of a discretion, because if the guy is losing and it pokes you in the eye, or it's winning, right? And it pokes you in the eye. He loses a point, but he's beating you so bad and gets tired, right? Let's say he's a five round five. Gets tired. Pokes you and I,

now, actually, that doesn't make any sense, because you said DQ. I think what you're trying to say is if if someone who is losing gets poked and says, I can't continue, now they win. And that's not necessarily fair. So it should be a no contest. Or even flip side, if the guy is winning, but then the other guy starts to rally back in the later rounds. Sure. I mean, I'd like to think that people aren't trying to cheat, you know, just to get out of fights. I mean, you signed up for this.

But, yeah, maybe I'm a little naive. Man, honestly, with everything that's happening, you know, what happened this past weekend, I feel like I am naive. Like, I can't imagine. I'm naive, too, man. Like, I'm naive too. But it's people are people. There's a way to do things, cheat or whatever. People are going to figure out ways to kind of bend the rules, take advantage of the rules.

And I mean, you hear some of these guys, Derek Lewis got the famous interview. It's like, shit, I cheat all the time. I kick the guy right in the nuts. It was like, but he ain't wrong. He's like, what they're going to do? They're going to warn you. He's like, then I'm going to pull. Like, you have to do something to take that away from these guys.

Otherwise, people are going to bend the rules as much as they can. So I guess that's my only two. sense on that. These guys are human, and sometimes these guys, Derek Lewis is a great actor himself, shit, because he's like, oh, my bad. He just wanted to catch his breath real quick, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think the gloves are the problem, or are you more on the Jim Miller side of things like, yo, just keep your hands closed? I'm more towards Jim Miller, but I also think the gloves are a problem because the UFC gloves keeps your fingers straight. Yeah. The naturally is like just hold my hands up. This is what they do. But when you put those

UFC gloves on, they make your fingers do this. So it's like, yeah, you want to paw and you want to push away, but your hands are already open. So when you start to swat, if it was like this, you probably push away a little bit easier. This way, you probably have to force your fingers open. But your hands are essentially open with these gloves that we have anyway. So it's a little bit of both. I think the gloves could be better. I forget which promotion has the ones that are slightly curved. Maybe it's rising. Yep, yep. I like those so much better. I don't know. I don't know what we have to do

to get a consistent pair of gloves that we can constantly use that can reduce the amount of fouls. I really don't know. What do you make of this gambling story? It's crazy, but I've watched Dolgarian make his debut. I believe it was against Francis Marshall.

Francis Marshall's a solid grappler. Delgarian comes in and torches this guy, torches him. And I go, oh, this guy is a contender. Now, a couple of fights later, he fights Del Valle. I'm like, I know Del Valle's good.

I've seen him in person. He's just big, strong physical specimen. But then, I'm like, this is this guy second UFC fight. What are we talking about? You take a double-leg shot. You get in deep. And then you stay on your knees and you start crawling on your knees. The guy defends, you defend the choke and then you give your back.

And then when you're giving your back, you start fighting the top hand and not the choking. Like, Michael Kiesa called it on the nose. He called it exactly what it. I have a hard time believing that this guy just forgot Jiu-Jitsu. This Jiu-on-1, you're a good grappler. He's bigging him up, and then all of a sudden he goes and fights like that. It's super weird. I wouldn't be surprised if there's been multiple fights that has happened with a lot of other people.

I know some people have been coming out and posting that have been approached by people before. I've never been approached by anybody. I have had friends say to me, like, hey, if you ever feel like you're past your prime and you think you're like, you're not sure what's going to happen, just give me a head. Heads up. Oh, jeez. Like, what does that even mean? Like, I'm coming here to win, dog. I'm not looking to be nobody's highlight real.

Fuck that, you know? So it's a shitty situation, but I think a lot of these guys, a lot of fighters, I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of these fights with the judging and the with the refs, how can you not look at any of those things? It's all this stuff is super questionable. Stuff that seems so simple gets made way more complicated. And then we go, I just can't leave it in the hands of the judges.

And that's all we chalk it up to. We don't question it. We don't do anything else. We just leave it at that. Oh, you should never let it get to the judges. Oh, the rep. You should never gave the ref a chance to put you in that position. I don't know.

Herb Dean saying constantly, work, work, work. When the guy's throwing punches and elbows in the fifth round, it's like, then I get hurt. And then you're telling me to work when, what are you talking about? I got engaged. I just got hurt. When the other guy got hurt from my punch and started circling away for 40 seconds, you didn't say shit.

Now all of a sudden you want to step in. Like, for what? What's going on that we don't know about where you kind of flip-flop the way that you fill in between these fights or during these fights. And I think the whole thing needs to get looked at. People are going to be mad and whatever, but it kind of puts a sour spot, like puts a little damper on the sport, right? I mean, oh, my God, huge. We're putting bets. We use the people that we care about.

And then the next year you know, you find out someone you care about it. You probably place a bet on these guys are throwing a fucking, it's like, I don't know. By the way, this is why people turned on boxing. because you remember fans started to feel like the fights were rigged like oh my god that's a horrible judge's decision you can't and and the UFC and MMA was like the breath of fresh air they were the one like this is on the up and up everything's you know like they're they're calling it straight here this is none of that old school boxing stuff and now you're you're questioning fights you're questioning referees you're questioning judges is not a good look I've had multiple fighters reach out to me obviously will not say who they are who have told me that people have come up to them and said like I have 100K here. Are you willing to lose the fight by this method? And now the people who have told me this have said, F, F that, I would never do it.

Now, what about the other people? I'm sure there are other people who are like, actually, you know what, I could use that 100K because it's more than the 10 and 10 that I'm making or 12 and 12. Yeah, the 10 and 10 and 12. I was actually just talking somewhere about this. I can understand a guy in the dogarian situation, right?

Like, you come in to the UFC, you probably get 10 and 10. You win your first fight. You look spectacular. I don't even know if he got a bonus. Okay, he doesn't get a bonus. So now you get 20 grand. You got to pay your coaches.

You got to pay your training partners. You got to pay for the whole camp just to get to the fight. Medicals and all that. You got to pay for those two. Food, nutrition. All these stuff you got to pay for. Okay. Now your second fight, I forget if you won or not.

What is he? He was three and one. He was three and one going into this fight. He had one split decision lost to C-Rod, Christian Rodriguez. Yeah. So now you see, you put yourself in this situation. Now you're looking at it. I was like, okay, now he probably got 12 and 12 for your second fight.

and now his third fight probably got 14 and 14 he loses one fight so he only gets half his paycheck now he's in a situation where he's probably thinking someone comes up to him holy shit this is more than all the money I've made combined up until this point I can understand the logic behind that right but also the integrity side of it as an athlete as a fighter and as a man is I mean maybe maybe maybe there's something to be said it's like as a man you're looking to provide for your family so you're going to do what you've got to do. So I guess it's just different mentalities of how you want to be remembered

and how, I don't know. Man, there's such a crazy thing to... Nevada withheld his purse. He lost his job. It's not worth it. So he didn't get paid at all? Nevada withheld his purse, yes. So then what does he get paid at,

from the guys he took the bet from? Well, this is allegedly here. We don't know what exactly is happening. There's an investigation going on, for goodness sakes. But, yeah, I don't know. But in terms of like... If he got paid as $100K, then it probably cashed out. On the surface, he lost his job.

And reputation not great at the moment, haven't heard from him. We are about to speak to his coach, Mark Montoya, in a matter of moments. So we'll see what he has to say. But like, it's just not great. I just don't know how it's worth it, ultimately. You made it to the UFC. I had heard stories that he had trained with the likes of Yusuf Zalal and Corey Sanhagan and Tim Elliott and top guys and would dominate them in the gym.

This guy had skills, right? I've heard stories. And I just know that guy cannot tell me for a second that that was his best effort whatsoever. Even if he was injured, that's not his best effort. But that's why I do empathize, like, the fighters, like, we're in the biggest league, the organization in the world, the most prestigious and the biggest chance and opportunity for you to make the most wealth that you can in this sport. So, you know, I've always been grateful, but I always known coming up and

the sport. I wasn't going to quit my job until I had at least almost 200 grand in my account. And that's when I finally quit my job. I got a bonus, whatever, whatever, quit. And I had a house. I was stable and everything. Like, some of these guys, they think, like, either you come in and you're going to be able to, I'm in the UFC, I'm going to get paid like I'm in the NBA and the NFL. I wish it was like that, but it's not. So what's the harsh reality? We got to work a second or third job and then use this as a supplemented income. And hopefully you get a good break where you get an opportunity, you cash out, maybe a bonus, or you just win a couple of fights in a row, you get to your second contract and things are

going on your way and you do well, right? So it's a hard position to be in, but just understanding the space that you're in and the life that you decided to take, you got to understand the risk that comes with it, right? So I've understood that. I understood that I had to work for X amount of things. I can only train one time a day sometimes. I have to squeeze in on my break shift a second session to go into the night for my next session. So it's, it's not easy, man. So I get all sides, but it's just, again, as a fan of the sport, it puts a damper on it for me to want to watch the sport and seeing and questioning whether guys are throwing fights and shit like that. And I watch these guys. Like I said, I could tell Dolgarian is way better

than what he put out, right? Because I'm breaking out these fights. I'm talking about upcoming prospects and things like that on my podcast. It's not that hard to spot. out if you're actually watching and paying attention and you know what you're looking at. Two more things that I'll let you go. First, we've been talking all this time, haven't asked you about your own career per se. Any word on when you may return? Well, I just got these stem cells down in Mexico at rejuven stem. So they just took care of me down there. I wanted to get it earlier so that I could try to fight in December, but then Marab had his fight in October. And I'm thinking, okay, I'll get it after the wedding and after his fight. And then

he says I got another fight. I was like, okay, I got to just get this done at this point. So now at this point, I don't think I'm going to have time to fight in December to probably prepare. So probably we'll fight maybe February or March, depending on what the UFC offers. I don't know who's fighting Volcanowski at this point. I think it's Diego. The legends versus, oh, come on. That's what I think.

Diego Lopez again. That's what I think it is. Last I heard. I'm not knocking the guy, but it's just like, now what do you do, emotional? are in Lerone Murphy you got Maybe they fight each other I think it should be I think it should be Lerone

I think it should be Lerone This sucks man So what does that mean for you Are we talking Arnold Allen Arnold Allen? I mean I was calling out Arnold for a while He's right behind you

You're five he's six Steve Garcia Just moved up four spots He's now eight That motherfucker is good Yeah I'm a humpin his ass to death.

That's why we don't want to watch you fight. I don't give a fuck. I need my paycheck. You ain't paying my bills. She is. Yusif Salal? He's seven. I don't know.

He's Jaya Rodriguez. Yeah, he's three. He's Mosa again. I really don't want to do that again. I'd rather do it about a belt. If I were it to win the next one, there's Lerone Murphy. I like to fight anyone in front of me.

At this point, I don't really have a choice. I give whoever the UFC gives me. I never turn down fights anyway, so I fight everybody. This is one thing to the fans, even if they're not super thrilled with my fight style. They could never say I turn down fights. Last one, I know you're very proud of your roots, and I know it's a tough time back home in Jamaica. And I know you're spreading awareness on how people can help after the hurricane over there.

Right now. Oh, you pulled it up for me. There it is. We're ready to go. So tell people if they want to help out. I believe you're supporting the Bob and Rita Marley Foundation Relief Fund. Yes. We are at $47,000 now.

There it is. Good for you. Yeah, we've done a great job with spreading the awareness, again, the word out. A lot of people have been taking part helping out. I made a big donation of $5,000 through my foundation, well, not my foundation, my company, phone cover room. But I wanted to use it for that. Obviously, is Jamaica, rum and all this other stuff.

But the main thing is, like, they're going to be doing the right things with the money, That was the hard part trying to figure out which charity to go with because you just never know what people are doing with the money and whatnot. These guys actually have a reputation of helping out and giving back to the community who got to talk with them beforehand before going live. And there was some good synergy. I think Leon Edwards is getting involved. I spoke to Randy Brown about it, O'Day Osborne, just a couple of the Jamaican fighters in Phil Roe as well. So it's a great opportunity. If people want to make sure that their money is going to the right places, they're getting roofing kids.

kids, food. You can check out the mission statement and all that stuff online and see what they're doing. You can see as a statement said, that money is already going towards X amount of food for families that don't have it. So, so far, so good. And let's keep bugging away. You know, rebuild Jamaica. I know a lot of people go to Jamaica and visit and they take advantage of the culture and everything and get to enjoy the land. So help us rebuild the country and give us a place that we can always go back to and go visit. Amen. And I hope family and friends, you know out there doing okay and our best to the great people of Jamaica. So good on you. Shout out. Punkus. Yes, shout out. My kids keep down there in Portmore. My kids keep walking

around saying Bomboclott. And I'm trying to tell them like, you can't just be walking around saying that. Like that's a thing that kids say now. I don't know the Bomboclod, but I'm like, what is going on here? But I mean, they can say it. I mean, yeah, it's not a great word, right? Nice. Yeah. Yeah, I got my brother down there. I spoke to him yesterday. He was asking how he was doing and everything. But he said the roof held up. His roof, at least he didn't lose his roof in his house. He said that helped out with the water damage and everything.

So I got some other family down there too. But yeah, all know good stuff. And again, if people want to donate, every little bit helps. Don't feel inclined to drop 5K like I did. I just really like the country a lot. You know, of course, my parents are from there. So there's a way I can get back. And it's also a tax incentive, right?

You get to kind of take the advantage of both sides. So for people that want to help and then they also like to get something out of it, you know, it's a good thing. Good thing, good cause to put your money towards. Thank you, Aljo. All the best to you. Appreciate it.

We'll talk to you soon. Thanks for doing this as always. And go check out the weekly scraps on YouTube. And Funk Harbor, baby, too. And Funk Harbor. Yes, many hot takes over on the YouTube channel. So go check that out. Thank you, Alja.

All the best. There he is. Al Jermaine Sterling, the Funkmaster, the newlywed. Kind enough to join us on this. Tuesday afternoon to talk about many, many things. Okay, one more guest to go very much looking forward to having him on and very much appreciate him coming on. He's one of the very best coaches in all of mixed martial arts. He's been doing this for a couple of decades now, reputation, integrity

as high as any. And I can understand that this may be a bit of a tough time, a trying and challenging time. And so that is in large part why I am very grateful and thankful that he would come on. He is the headman over at Factory X over in Colorado, and he is Mark Montoya. He's coach Mark Montoya, who is kind enough to join us on this Tuesday. Mark, thank you so much for doing this. Really appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me, man. It's been a minute since I've been on. I wish I was coming on here to speak to you about some great performances over the weekend. But, you know, ultimately I'm here because I want to, first and foremost, just make sure that we clear the air. You know, my

my gym is being attacked, my integrity is being attacked, and I just want to first and foremost say we have nothing to do with any of these allegations that are being brought upon us. People have asked me what my opinions are. To speculate right

now is not my job. You know, my job is to right now continue to lead and not react. And with that said, you know, we, we as a team, myself, as a person. I've never been involved in any type of betting format. I've actually never even placed a sports bet in my entire life. I couldn't tell you how to do it. And so, you know, my job has always been

to train these guys to fight and win, train these guys to win in life. And those are my two jobs. And so, you know, I take that very seriously. And, you know, this is my life's work. And you can bet you're asked that I would never, for any sort of money, I would never sell my integrity or my word because in life, that's all you have. You have one thing. All these worldly things that we look at, the cars, the houses, the money, all those things, those are worldly manmade things. And, you know, we go and we leave ourselves with one thing when we leave this earth and that's our integrity and our word. And you couldn't pay me any amount of money to, get rid of that. And so I just want to start by saying that. It's a very unfortunate situation.

It's still unfolding. And, you know, I'm just, I'm just not here to speculate. I'm here to speak facts. I appreciate that very much. And I appreciate you jumping right into it. And I can see it on your face how much this is bothering you and pains you. And so could I ask, just, you know, as someone who feels so strongly about these, these principles, how have the last 48, 72 hours been for you to be, you know, to be witnessing all of this happening, your reputation knows ever accused you of anything of this sort, and now to see all of this happening surrounding you? You know, Ariel, the thing is, is I care deeply about my athletes.

I think that's one thing that anyone would say about me. And, you know, I pray to God that any of these allegations right now are not true. And so, you know, my care for my athletes, my job in coaching these guys to, win in life coaching these guys to win in the cage. I take that very seriously. So, you know, the last couple of days, it's not been the funnest time I've ever gone through. I appreciate that as well, and I can certainly understand that. And just if we're able to take a step back, your work with Isaac, when did it start? When did you start coaching him at

Factory X? Coached Isaac a couple of fights ago. You know, we are, we've been two and one together. you know, like all my athletes, prior to obviously going to Saturday, all my athletes, my number one job, like I've already repeated, is to help these guys win in that cage. And so, you know, we started working together a couple fights ago, and that's where we sit. From all this, you know, obviously he's a big topic of conversation right now, and I keep hearing from people like, this guy is an absolute beast in the gym, in the training room, going with some of the best fighters in the world and making them look like they're in the minors and he's a super elite talent. Is that the way you would describe Isaac going into this weekend?

Was he a guy that you were very high on? Was he someone that you thought could be a contender at 145? Ariel, you know, we trained our butt off for this fight. He trained with world-class athletes leading up to this fight. He was physically and mentally ready to go into this fight and secure a victory. He's an amazing athlete. He's a guy worth putting investing time into in the fight world. And so, you know, I don't go into any fight as a coach that I don't think we're going to go win. You know, at the end of the day, that is our job. And so he's exceptional in that sense.

And, you know, that is his fedigree. Was there anything in the buildup to this fight, training, camp, interactions, fight week, that gave you any sort of pause? Anything that happened, any sort of chatter, any sort of interaction demeanor, reading his body line, anything at all that gave you any kind of pause? Absolutely not. So I reported yesterday on the program that around midday, you know, when all this stuff started to build up over on the West Coast, that the UFC caught wind of it and that they had an interaction, a conversation with him about, you know, what is going on here and what do you know about this. Can you tell us about your day and your perspective on all of this? What did you

see? What did you hear? What did you experience? You're asking what you're asking? Yes. Once all this stuff started to become public and I understand they found out a little bit before that there was this, you know, questionable betting activity surrounding this fight, him losing in the first round when he's this favorite who's never lost in the first round before. They catch win of it. and my understanding is they had a conversation with him, maybe even two. And I'm just wondering what your perspective was on all of that, what you heard or saw. Well, my perspective is that's a massive distraction from what our job is. Our job is that we prepared weeks upon weeks to go win a fight. And so, you know, first and foremost, as a coach and as a person, I care about my

fighter. So there's a conversation that needs to be had. And, you know, we had the conversation. about allegations he reassured me he wasn't involved and i have no reason not to believe him and so you know we reassessed like we would anytime and you know aerial whether it's a distraction like this or something else it's not the first time i've had a fighter pre-fight where i've had to go and had to have a conversation with them because there's not a fighter alive that walks in that cage that doesn't have fear or worry or scared, you know, because they're getting ready to go fight another man. And so I treated it just like that is, you know, we have some news. Let's verify whether this is true or not. He reassured me it wasn't. And then my job, like I said,

is to continue to train my guys to win in life, train my guys to win in that cage. And my full focus was, then awesome. Let's go win a fight and prove ourselves right. And let's get after. that that ultimately was the discussion what are you then thinking as the fight is unfolding and it it doesn't quite seem like he is himself the the takedown the submission defense and whatnot what are you thinking at that point I mean essentially I'd be speculating on on on what's going on there I you know I'm in the middle of a fight what I'm thinking is the technical information that needs to be delivered to my fighter to not get submitted. And so all I'm thinking is talk him through.

And if you could pull the corner audio if you want, talk him through passionately and with clear direction of how not to get submitted. That's what I'm thinking. So at that point, you're not thinking like, what is going on? This is not him. Why is he doing this? Why is he not defending the right way? Are you getting frustrated? I know there's a lot going on. And I'm asking you to go back to a specific moment. It's very intense. But I'm just wondering if now any of those feelings are coming to light. Well, it's not my job to get distracted in the corner. My job is to stay focused. My job, despite the noise, you know, the white noise, I have to clear out. I've done, like you said, I've been doing this for 20 years. As a head coach, I have coached UFC

athletes for 15 years. I'm probably one of the more long-standing active coaches in the UFC. My job consistently has been to get in there and train these guys to win and ultimately do that and turn out all the noise. We do that in practice. We do that in fights.

We do that in arenas. We do that in the apex. So my job, my whole focus when we're in the middle of that is he already reassured me that we're good. So I'm going to trust my athlete. And so from there, I'm going to technically work through how to get out of a submission.

And that's my job as a coach, is to speak truth and have clarity and have conviction on direction. All this other stuff is noise. There's so much noise that happens behind any type of fight, especially when you've been involved in it as long as I have. So my job ultimately is to go in there and help my fighter. that's ultimately my job i have never doubted that um fight ends he obviously loses what happens in the back what happens in the back you go to the medicals and i don't have any time to spend with him because i have another fight that i need to go corner and so ultimately you know just the standard protocol he goes to medical room gets cleared and then at the apex you know they ship those guys out

And for me, and any coach that's done what I've done and has multiple fighters on the card, essentially, you've got to get back to my job, refocus, despite a win or a loss, and be present for my next fighter. Have you talked to him since the fight? Now that the dust has settled, all of this has come out. Have you guys had a conversation? We had a conversation on Sunday. It was real brief. The conversation was that he was cut from the UFC.

and unfortunately there's an investigation that is being had and ultimately that he's not part of this factory X team because of everything going on and that was ultimately the conversation. Okay, so you made the decision to release him from the team? Ariel, whether he's guilty or he's innocent, In my prediction, Isaac Dolgarian is not going to fight again. And so does it really matter where he claims where he's training?

You know, ultimately, where we sit today is in just a crazy mess with all these allegations. And so the least of his concerns right now would be where he's at and where he's training. I understand that. But, I mean, if it is found that he is not guilty, why wouldn't he? I mean, he's still a great fighter. that long ago. So, you know, even Derek Minner, who was involved in a situation like this three years ago, came back to fight outside of the UFC. And so I think it speaks volumes if you do part ways with him because why would someone want someone who is potentially involved with something like that

in the gym? Ultimately, I don't, I can't speculate. You know, that's the FBI's job. I'm waiting just like you are and the rest of these people are to figure out whether or not this is true. And so or where he goes. And so, you know, at the end of the day, I can't speculate. It's not my job. That's the FBI's job of day. They're going to, you know, really only Ariel God and Isaac know the truth. And the FBI obviously is going to investigate this.

And they're going to find out whether this happens or not. And like I said, I just pray for Isaac and his family that, you know, it's not true. And but ultimately I got to sit and wait just like everybody else. If it's not true, would you advise him to come back to the gym and resume his career? I would have to cross that bridge when we got there. I couldn't, I have no idea. I'd have to cross that bridge when we get there. Do you have any idea? So you said you spoke to him on Sunday. Do you have any idea how he's doing two days later? Obviously, this is a massive story now. Have you spoken to him or checked in on him? I haven't spoke to him recently. Like I said, I spoke to him on Sunday, and that's the, that was the end of our conversation.

I haven't spoke to him, as you can tell and figure, there's been a lot going on here. And so a lot on my plate. And, you know, for me, my job is to lead and not react. And I need to be able to continue to be a great leader for all of my team. I need to be a great leader for my family. And like I said, my job is to train these guys to win, man. My job is to train these guys to win in life. And so I need to continue to lead that way and not react.

What's been the mood like at the gym the last two days? You know, the mood is we all have a chip on our shoulder. We don't want to be lumped into any type of allegation. when it's untrue. We are not part of any of this alleged thing that's going on. And so there's a chip on our shoulders because if you're being wrongly accused of something, the biggest reason I'm here and speaking with you is because I want to shout from the mountaintops that myself and my team, my coaching staff,

we have nothing to do with this situation. somebody else's decisions or what they did or didn't do, I can't control, unfortunately. I tried to lead the best I can. But, you know, ultimately, we want what's best for, of course, all the people we're surrounded by. But we need to continue to look forward. I mean, the bottom line is, if we keep looking backwards, how do we move the ball forward? And so, you know, the whole talk around here in my gym is, let's move this ball forward. Let's not talk about an individual.

Let's talk about the tribe and the team. Let's move that ball forward. Let's continue to work toward our goals, chase dreams, and continue to have that winning mindset and that championship mindset that's put us on this map where we are, has given us the opportunity to go chase dreams. And ultimately, that's the moon. With that in mind, obviously this is the topic du jour, and I don't know if it's going to go away anytime soon, and now you're seeing other fighters come out and say, yeah, I've been approached or whatnot. Have you had any discussions about like, hey, guys, do not do this, do not think about doing this, do not consider this, so that other people don't find themselves potentially in a situation like this? like i said earlier my my job is to continue to lead to these lead these guys and of course there's always conversations about all kinds of things in life that we shouldn't shouldn't do and so with this said that's 100% a just basically known factor that we don't we don't we if

we're going to be champions in life this is the kind of stuff that we definitely can't get a part of And so, or be a part of it. And, and they take that to heart. Just like they take to heart, let's be great fighters and let's be great men. And so, you know, what other people are saying or doing, I can't control. And I don't know those narratives and I don't know what those things are about. But I do know that I have been around such a bunch of solid people that, you know, like I said earlier, Ariel, I hate losing. more than I like Winnie.

And that's the attitude that consistently I have carried as a coach. And all these worldly things that we chase, the money, the cars, the houses, those are man-made worldly things. There's only one thing we take with us, like I said at the beginning, and that's our integrity and our word. And so what other people do, I can't control. I can only control what I do and how I act and how I profess and lead to my family and to my team. And with that said, is let's leave this place with massive amounts of integrity and knowing that only one thing really matters and that is carrying our word. In this moment, you've been in, I said you were a coach for around two decades. As far as martial arts, how long have you been involved in martial arts?

pre-coaching? I mean, since, yeah, since 1998, I, is when I really started training. So, 27 years or so, right? Does it just, the impression that I'm getting from you in this conversation, coach, is that, like, you feel almost like blindsided that someone would do something like this, because as you keep saying, integrity, integrity, integrity,

that's all we have, that's the most important thing. Would that be fair to say? Like, it just, it seems very short-sighted to do something like this, even for a few hundred thousand. Is that fair? And is, like, am I completely off base here? Is that not the sentiment that you're trying to exude? Well, the sentiment I'm trying to exude is that life throws you all kinds of things.

And at the end of the day, what is our purpose and what is our meaning? What are we doing? Like, let's have conviction in that thing. And, you know, as a head coach and leader, I have to keep that in mind. I have to live that for myself. And life is going to blindside you all the time. And it's how it's not if it's going to, it's going to.

And the question and the measure of true characters, how do we respond? And again, that's why I'm on here. I'm not hiding from anything. I could have chose not to come on here. I could have said, I'm just going to let this disappear and other things happen. I'm not hiding from this. The reason I'm not hiding from this is because it's absurd that we're even in this kind of position to even talk about this. I'm not talking to you about the massive amount of win streaks that I've had with so many UFC athletes and the massive amount of winning that we've had with so many athletes.

Instead, we're talking about a bunch of nonsense and sitting here essentially saying, yo, I take accountability for our actions. But at the end of the day, there's no freaking way that myself or my coaching staff or my existing team is involved in anything like that. And so, yeah, life is going to blindside you, but how do you react? And my reaction is, let's sit here and explain to the public. You know, people are wanting to form their opinions. And that's okay. It's okay because that's what life is. But for me, I'm not speaking from opinion.

I'm speaking from fact. Fact is I trained fighters to win in life. I train fighters to win in a fight. And that's the bottom fricking line. I wouldn't, and that's what I've always done. I appreciate that. One last question on Isaac, and then I'll ask you another one and let you go. And I really do appreciate the time.

Some, you know, interviews and stories and clips have come out, him talking about his living situation and things like that. Do you have any sort of insight into, like, was he struggling? did he feel like he wasn't making enough because this stuff is starting to come out now? Well, Ariel, I think it's a pretty loaded question because I think if you ask any athlete, whether it's in the UFC, the NBA, the NFL,

whether they make enough money or not, you're going to get many answers. And so everybody is aware of what these young UFC athletes make. Whether he says he's struggling or not, I can't answer. I mean, we know, it's public knowledge what these guys make. And I can't tell you whether or not he feels that because I'd be speculating what he feels. That's fair.

And I wasn't trying to catch you there. The differences, you know, NBA, NFL, NHL guys, MLB guys, they're making hundreds of millions of dollars. MMA fighters aren't to your point. And he said, you know, living in an RV and things like that, those guys aren't. So I didn't know that would obviously answer some questions. given his current financial state, but I understand where you're coming from.

That's probably a better question for Isaac. The team, doing well as always. You did have a fighter in the main event, David O'Namong and Steve Garcia. Could I ask you about your assessment of that fight with Steve winning? He's looked very good as of late, as has David, from your perspective,

what went wrong that night? Oh, just credit to, you know, we, Steve showed up, he beat us. You know, we, we didn't perform to our abilities that night, and it's unfortunate, but, you know, you got to remember, we're talking, the Isaac Dolgarian situation is talking about a loss. Let's talk about some winning. Like, David Onama was on a four-fight win streak since coming to my gym. He hasn't lost until Saturday night. And he catapulted himself from just a regular fighter to a top 15 fighter in the main event at the apex. That kid has earned everything that he has gotten up to this point. And, you know, unfortunately, we didn't do our job in the main event. And credit to Steve and his team because they did. And that's the bottom line.

It is, Onama will be back. O'Nama will be better because he's going to learn from this. And that's what's built him and gotten him to this point. When he came to me, he was on a loss. We turned that around into a four or five win streak. and he has gone out there and looked amazing and we need to go and do an even better job than we did in that first four-fight win streak

and go create another one past that so that Onama can go solidify his dreams and his goals that he has for himself and his family. Yusuf Dala was on a role. We were just talking about him with Aljo. Who would you like to see him fight next? I'd love to see you. You know, Yusuf is on a 10-fight win streak since 2022.

So, again, we're talking about a lot of winning. That's what I said to you. My job is helping these guys win in life, helping these guys win in the cage. He's on a 10-fight win streak since 2022. That's impressive. And to do it at the level that he's done is amazing. I'd love to see him fight Laurent Murphy. I think that's a great matchup for him.

I think it's a great matchup for the fans. I think stylistically that would be a fun fight. That would be somebody I would love to see him go and fight. Last thing, off the screen here, you look to be in phenomenal shape. You seem in great spirits and very healthy. I know you were battling some health issues recently. Could you just update us if you feel comfortable doing so on how you're doing? Yeah, no, I've always talked about having kidney cancer and having that battle.

to come back. And the only reason I've talked about that is not to highlight myself is to more so highlight and give hope and purpose for people that are dealing with this stuff because it's a tough road. It doesn't matter the kind of cancer you have, but it's a tough road. You know, it's taken me multiple years now to feel, quote unquote, somewhat like myself. And, you know, it's a tough battle, but I feel very fortunate. I feel like God is continuing. to put me in this position to just continue this life and, and like I said, continue to be a leader and do the things that I've done. And so, you know, anytime you say cancer, it's very scary. And, you know, the biggest thing is I scared a lot of people around me. And anytime you have

something like that, it's going to absolutely change your perspective. And it's also going to give you hope and give you a platform to go speak hope into people. So, you know, I'd love to say to the people out there that if you're suffering with anything like this, or you're just suffering with something, that you should go out there and hopefully you can draw from the strength I've been given by God, and you can do the same thing on your end, and you can battle through this and know that you're not walking through this alone, because that's what helped me get through a lot of this. I wish you the best, Mark. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I know it's been a difficult and frustrating time for you

and the team. So thanks for coming on, telling us your side of the story. And hopefully this storm passes for you guys quickly and you can focus on the fights and fighters. All the best to you. Ariel, I appreciate you having me on. And hey, next time I come on here, let's talk about these win streaks that we have because we have a bunch of them. Absolutely. You have my word on that. Thank you, Coach. All the best to you. There he is. Mark Montoya, the head coach and owner of Factory X over in Colorado, obviously a tough time. Very much appreciate him coming on and giving us his side of a story that, you know, you would suspect can only get bigger, although, you know, we're reminded of the

Derek Minter, James Krause story, which kind of just, you know, I don't want to say it disappeared because to the best of my knowledge, the James Krause FBI investigation is still ongoing. We have not gotten any sort of conclusion to all of that. He is no longer a part of the sport anymore. And Miner is not in the UFC, although he did come back. His fight wasn't that long ago. It was June, June of 2025. That was his first fight since the Shailen-Nirine-Becki fight in November of 2022.

By the way, he lost that fight in June of 25. So five or so months ago. via split decision to Brock Hammer. Jeff Molina not back, Krauss not back. But for the most part, you know, we'll get questions here and there. It's not talked about a lot and there are not many updates. And I would say maybe one of the issues involved is there's so many fights and we kind of just get on this conveyor belt of fights and it's hard to do big picture stuff.

That's just a byproduct of the sport not being as big as the NBA and there aren't people or NFL and there aren't people like looking at it from out here. and not focused on the micro, if you will. But it does feel like this one is unfolding a little bit differently. Yesterday on the program, I talked about speaking to fighters and hearing about fighters who have been approached to throw fights. And in the aftermath of that, we've had a few fighters post on social media that they have experienced similar conversations.

Here is Vince Morales, tweeting yesterday. all this throwing the fight stuff is crazy I've been approached about doing it and it's not something I could live with even though I ended up losing the damn fight anyways and then someone asked them how much were you offered he wrote pennies considering

how big of a deal it is 70K now this is from a MMA junkie graphic and the reason we have it that way is because he deleted the tweet he did I think offer a retraction of sorts. Okay, well, sorry about all of that. Terrible timing for I thought was a good

joke. Poor taste. This shit is so grimy. That was this morning at 11.36 a.m. Didn't seem like a joke. Anyone think that was a joke? No, that's an insane take to say that you have been offered to fix fights. List the price for how much you were going to get paid and then delete it and say that you were joking. You got a phone call from someone to get rid of that. Yeah. It reminds you of like someone said. It reminds me of Pereira saying he got hacked. Yeah. You know, when he's like, maybe this like pointed commentary on the state of his relationship with the UFC. And then, of course, he didn't get hacked. Yeah. And this is, this is far more serious allegations than what Pereira was saying. Yeah, it's crazy to say this. And now it seems like all the fighters that

came out and said they got offered are walking it back. So Morales had lost his last three in rows. Last fight was in March of 2025 against Rosas Jr. Vanessa Demopoulos, also was on social media saying, yeah, people have approached me to throw fights also. My integrity can never, we've spent our lives learning skills and honoring this sport. Can't believe people compromise their morals like this. And correct me if I'm wrong, guys,

I do believe that one's gone as well. Yeah, I believe that comment has been deleted. She hasn't posted anything since. Saying otherwise, though. Lando Veneta, and by the way, Vanessa Demopoulos last fought in June of 25, she too is on a three-fight losing street. Lando Vanada last fought in the UFC April of 2023.

He posted this. Farah was approached seven times to throw a fight. My record reflects my integrity. And then he came out later and essentially said the same thing that he was joking. To be clear, I've never been approached about throwing a fight nor anyone I know because I'm not a hoe and I would never disrespect martial arts for money. what I think his alibi is the seven makes me think okay maybe that was a bad joke because he's lost seven times

maybe not I don't know either way that one feels not the best joke feels more likely that you can make a joke also if we put that picture back up I think he also said in the story he showed his record with the seven losses and he also says my lawyer has instructed me to stop trying to be funny on the internet and get back to training right and it looks like he got hit up by an ESPN reporter to discuss it more. Oh, is that what the text is?

Yeah, it says, you should write an article about being gullible. Yeah. I mean, geez. Again, like, it's a very serious post, and then you say that, yeah, I also got offered to fight. So I don't know, I just don't know why we would assume that it was a joke. Regardless of whether these individual ones are jokes or not, the point is that this is happening, right?

The point is that there are fighters who are being contacted for them. this. And so it's kind of irrelevant whether these particular fighters were joking, not joking, whatever the case may be. It is very obviously happening. And that's what's going to open the dam, right? Yeah. I mean, very clearly, a manager and associate, a friend, a training partner, a coach said, yo man, why would you offer this up? Now, the information continues to come in privately and on background, as they say in the journalism business, which means if something is off the record, you're generally not supposed to talk about it. There's different. different rules. On background, you can speak, but not attribute it to anyone in case we were

wondering. I got a text last night, which read, hey, man, I saw you talking about people getting approached to throw fights, wanted to chime in and say that, yeah, gamblers have approached me, and I told them no, they offered me about 100K or so. I remember it was a fight. I ended up losing anyway, but there was no way I was going to compromise my integrity. Yeah, it's definitely something us fighters get approached with. I'm sure all of us have experienced it to some degree. Now, that's someone who wanted to remain anonymous. And they actually told me that they were going to try to find the message. Now, if people are being approached via text or DM, that's crazy. I just assumed someone was coming up. But then I started to ask like, oh, how were you approached?

Yes, someone hit me up. Now, I know from other people that they were approached in person. someone comes up to them at the gym. I've also heard, I can report, that someone told me that he was approached at the gym after a fight, a fight in which he won, and someone came up and said, hey, I'd like to give you a little present. And he said, what is this? It's a whole bunch of money. And the person said, hey, you know, I want some money betting on you. And this is is your cut. This is my thank you. This is your cut. This is a little token of appreciation. Now, the fighter told me he did not take it. He was blown away by it and wanted nothing to do with it. But that's a crazy thing. To go into a gym and say to a fighter, hey, I bet money on you

and I'm going to give you a piece of the pie. Isaac yesterday, in the interview that we played on M.A. Junkie Radio suggested that this should happen. And I could understand a fighter being like, well, wait a minute. But yo man, don't take that money because there's probably a lot of strings attached to it. You know what I mean? Oh, you're interested in this? Well, let's talk about this for the next one. This is a crazy thing. This is a crazy thing. When the Derek Minner situation happened, obviously the major casualty was James Krausen that he was banned from the sport. but we didn't have people popping up now and willingly offer up this information. And I think what it comes down to is it's sort of like, you know, I think the example

that Ben Fox made yesterday is the perfect analogy, comparing these lower level apex fights to lower level college basketball games. Like it's just hard, like they're flying under the radar. and it's so easy the barrier of entry is so easy to get to these guys and they're not making that much money it's we're literally talking about $12,000 to show and 12 to win for some of these entry level UFC fighters someone's in a tough spot someone needs to me i don't think i don't think i don't think is a bad person you know i saw our friend aunt evans say you know the media just sort of like brushes off horrible people rapists and murderers and all this stuff but how

dare you, you know, fix a fight, you go Gaga. Now, I don't know if he's talking about us here, like he's a friend of ours, but, and I take some sort of umbrage to that. I think we talk about it all, good, bad and ugly, and I'm not making this out to be a bigger thing. But the point that is being missed is this calls into question the integrity of a billion dollar industry. Do you know what I mean? I'm not trying to compare. They're comparing. I'm not comparing. But this isn't an Isaac Dalgarian story. And I don't think Isaac Delgarian, I don't know him, I've never talked to him. I don't think he was trying to take down a business, a company, or anything like that.

He probably, based on his interviews, needed the money if, in fact, he did something like this, allegedly. Yeah, he's the product of a system. He is not the mastermind behind anything. He is not like a sole operator who is trying to do anything, allegedly, or potentially, trying to make some money. This is the product of something much larger. It makes too much sense. Another point about the Minner thing, not for nothing. I know it feels like it was recently,

but three years ago is a hell of a long time ago. And there's been a lot of development in terms of how these gambling companies have offered new and different lines. There's been a lot of development of lots of people becoming content creators around betting. There's a lot that has happened in the last three years that has made this more appetizing

for somebody to potentially try to rig the system to try to fix fights and do this thing. So the time for this was the last three years, I do feel like this will not be able to happen moving forward. I imagine that sweeping changes are coming. We also mentioned the Ann Evans thing. I think he worded it when you mess with your betting bro overlords, like people get angry.

That's just dumbing this down. I mean, like you said, you are bringing the entire sport into question. The integrity of it is getting questioned. And it's kind of ironic that the people that are coming out are these lower-level fighters that are on the apex cards that are kind of comparable to the college basketball games because then you have to start thinking, you know, what about referees? What about judges? Like it brings everything into question. And MMA is not just the UFC. You can get lines on these LFA cards, on these PFL cards, on these ACA cards, the octagon cards, these cage warrior cards. You just don't know how big it actually is. 100%. Or small, to your point, right? How small it could potentially be is actually the key here, because it is at that lower level that this could happen the easiest.

There's protections in place at other points of failure, but there's less so when the attention is not on these other fights. I just wonder how the UFC attempts to fix this. You know what I mean? They did the thing where you can't bet on yourself anymore. Excuse me, you can't bet on the sport. Now, by the way, I'm sorry, G. You would see more of this than I,

But I'm starting to see some more guys like talking like they are making bets. Well, you see like the Garrett Armfields of the world posting the rain bet slips, kind of like how Drake does the steak ones where it's like, oh, no, it's just a sponsorship. But you're posting bet slips, which I assume are fake bet slips that they provide for you

to give promotion to it. And it just feels kind of egregious when you're in a sport that isn't allowed to gamble. If I'm putting my PR guy hat back on. Executive. EP? It's the same thing the NBA would do,

the same thing the NFL would do, which is we have no involvement in this. You distance yourself from it and you say that we're cooperating with federal authorities. Whatever the FBI needs, we provide.

Whatever our own independent investigator, if they are to do their own independent investigation, we provide. And we are not involved in this in any capacity. You distance, you remove yourself from it.

I don't know that there's much more they can do to police it. But that's the thing. That's the thing, where because like, okay, like let's say I play for the Philadelphia 76ers, right? Yes. Most of my activity, I mean, obviously you're not living at the gym 24-7, but you're like, you're in the

facility, you're in the, these do, the equipment, their facilities in Camden, New Jersey, the Knicks are in Westchester. Yeah. Mr. Fighter X is in some gym in God knows where, right? Like, it's just, you can literally just walk right in there, right? And be like, hey, man, can I have a conversation with you? You know what I mean?

It is so easy to get to these guys and to pray on And quite frankly, I just have a hard time believing that more of this isn't happening and it hasn't happened. I'm not talking about the failed attempts. I'm talking about like we have watched fixed fights. Yes. It's almost certain we've watched a certain percentage of fixed fights. And that's, I mean, to me that's scary. That's not good for the sport.

No, certainly not. It might be one of the worst things that can happen for the sport. It is the worst thing. It's on a short list. It's the worst thing because it questions. The worst thing is someone dying. Yeah, I was going to say. The worst thing is someone dying.

I don't know. I don't know that that's actually worse from a public perception. You die? A loss of life is. Someone dies. It happens in boxing all the time. This is not, we're not, we're talking about 2025 here. Like, it happens in boxing multiple times per year.

Like, this is, I don't think that that's actually true. Now, if it's a highly publicized thing, if it's like on the first event on CBS, somebody dies in the octagon, certainly I think that's like almost the worst case scenario. but no I don't believe that a death would take down the sport but I think it would get covered a lot more than this I think the wave of this is coming if a UFC fighter died yeah I think it would be covered more than this it's just it's just to be seen no one's covering this

there I see some people starting it's not yet it's not yet you're you're looking at the wrong point if you think that this is when the coverage is going to start coming once they start look as I said it was yesterday the Chauncey Billups the Terry Rozier when these things are happening it's not about when you're starting to hear whispers of it. It's when they have federal investigations of it. It's when they're actually arresting people. No, I know. That is going to

be the, when they start arresting fighters, when they start arresting referees, coaches, judges, that's when this is going to become a big story. It's not going to happen now when it's all speculation when fighters are on Instagram joking or not joking about it. Once the feds get involved, once people start going to jail, this is going to become a much bigger story. And I think it's a more significant thing, the most significant thing that could happen to the industry. Because if you can't rely on what's happening in the fights, if you don't believe that the right outcomes are happening, it takes down the betting markets, it takes down the public from belief in your sport. The UFC as an organization is going to be in a rough spot. I think this is going to have catastrophic effect if names start getting associated with this.

I wonder. I wonder. I really do. Whether those guys were joking or not on Instagram and Twitter, I can promise you, if they're start investigations, they're going to get a call regardless. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, no. They should be calling everybody. 100%. Why you would take to social media with that is beyond man. To your point, though, Ariel, about like, how do you stop this if you're the UFC?

I don't know that you can. The more you try to get involved with it, the less clean your hands become, right? The more you try to prevent this from happening, the more you're now getting involved in it. It's the same thing that we kind of discuss when we're talking about the clean testing situation. If you want to, have a clean sport and you want the UFC to be invested in and involved in it, now you're having to do random tests. Now you have the UFC paying for an agency to come and do these random tests and you're taking away fighter rights. It becomes more complicated. You have to have this happening at a regulatory level. You have to have this happening at commission level,

FBI level, the integrity organization that the UFC works with that is flagging these suspicious betting activities. Those are the organizations that probably have to take the most interest in it and try to prevent it. If the UFC starts to meddle in it, it now creates another point of failure where people can go, well, the UFC's trying to meddle in it. What if they're actually dictating it? And you create a lack of separation, a lack of objectivity if they try to get involved. So it's a tricky dance, man. This is a really, really difficult situation. And I don't think it's going to get better anytime soon. I actually think a lot, I think heads are going to roll on this one. I'm pretty confident that this is going to become a much

bigger story. As we are speaking right now, I get a text. I can tell you a fight that I am 100% certain was thrown and two others that were attempted. Call me later. If we start getting these specifics coming out of it, you can go back in retrospect and watch them. It really does. It just brings the entire sport into question. Well, let me ask you. Let me ask you. I mean, you partake on a sort of like leisurely level. Why would you at this point? Oh, it definitely has made me worry. I bet on Derek Minner in that fight that he lost. Oh, wow. Before the line moved like crazy. I didn't have a bet on this, uh, on this fight with Isaac Dolgarian, uh, but it's just like, man, how dumb can I look? Like I just, I literally just donated this money

to this sports book. And it's just like, how many times does, does it happen? Like it's, it's, it's, I don't know what's, what's going to end up happening with these investigations, but if, if things start becoming concrete and names really start getting listed, and you can go back and you can watch these fights and be like, this thing was fixed. How could you enjoy the sport moving forward? By the way, this is why we were freaking out over Usman-ermagamata versus Paul Hughes

because then you get a 50 to 45 and you're like, was that guy in on it? That's the thing, man. It's just like if the low-level fighters can be compromised, how much is a referee making? How much is one of these no-name judge making? And the judge is just like,

man, whatever happens out there, we're going to go 50-45. just go 5045 You won't have to get interviewed We won't have to do anything Your name will be slandered a little bit But how's 500 gay son You just like you just don't know

Obviously I'm speaking completely in hypotheticals But it We always Aljo made a great point We always see these score cards Where it's just like What fight were you watching How did you score it like that

And it's always like well It was a close fight It wasn't Robbie close fight It's just like just enough to skate by We saw it And I mentioned this in our conversation previously, we saw it with the Derek Minter fight where

the, there were commissions, there were jurisdictions where they started holding betting action on the UFC, right? But then it eventually came back. There was no net impact to the gambling markets and the betting space and all the money that is being

generated by that multi-billion dollar industry on the basis of that. But if this leads people to stop betting on UFC or on MMA or or on anything related to that, that is massive millions of dollars in losses to these betting companies, to casinos, to the entire industry that is supported by it. And that will inevitably lead, like once you start following the money, once the money gets

impacted, that's when things start to really happen. And I think money is going to be impacted by this. And that's why I'm pretty confident that this is going to result in much, much more than what we saw in the previous example. And with the popularity of sports betting, now that it's legalized and how fun of a sport UFC is to bet on, there is a significant portion of fans that are watching because they have bets on the fights. And if they do not have those bets, they will not tune in. Man. All right.

Well, much more I can assure you on this in the next day, two, three, four weeks. God knows. But it's a really interesting time. and let's see if more people come out, more people talk. I would imagine less are going to tweet about it, but we're going to do our best to cover this as well as possible, and I really do appreciate Mark coming on the program to talk about it as well. Wanted to get to a couple of other things before we call it a day.

Shout it to the big man, Jailie Roll. He was over in Australia. It lost a ton of weight. Actually working with a longtime MMA dietitian slash nutritionist to lose this weight. the great chef larios Ian larios look much weight he's lost and there he is with Alex the great Volcanovsky

it's actually Alex who's spinning bars here what's he singing what's this song Frank I know you know all the jelly roll hits this is the happy birthday song is it called happy birthday no oh I like jelly roll you're not a fan I just don't listen to his music

what is it wild ones does anyone does anyone oh man he was great at SummerSlam I'm the industry The industry plan allegations. What does that mean? That he, uh, he's, he's just getting planted everywhere, industry plant.

Serious? I mean, I'm saying it in Jess. Oh, is that a thing? Everywhere, everywhere I go, I see this man. Like, it's just like every time I turn around, he's, he's, he's, I mean, whoever's booking these things is working overtime, maybe. I swear to God, I can't watch anything. It's just like, turn on the Today Show in the morning.

They're like, guest starring jelly roll. And then it's just like, Monday Night Football that night. It's just like guest commentary from. jelly roll and he's like all right Big J.R in the house

now shout out to jelly roll he's lovable I think he's got a great name he's cuddly he's lost a lot

of weight he's inspirational a great backstory wrestling fan would love to have him on the program

shout out to the big man Waldo Cortez Ocosta he's going through it right now and he's

taking us on the journey he showed a picture yesterday of his eye in the aftermath there it is not fun

also shared footage of him getting his eyes checked also not fun but I mean shout out to him he got the opportunity to to come back and knock out Antidella and so we do wish him well it's it's a scary thing it's a really scary thing Frank wanted me to talk about my eye incident but I don't want to talk about you have to tell the people no No, no, I can't do it. It's empathy. No, no, no, no.

They're going to think I'm making light of the situation. All right, man. Well, it was just that my daughter, you know, she was playing with like a mini slinky. A plastic one? Yeah. Like, it's not the big one. You know the big ones, right? Yeah, the big steel ones, but this is a plastic one.

Nah, I think it was like a fiberglass. Okay, yeah. Really light. But sharp. Got it. And she was pulling it. Why she was doing that, I don't know. That's kind of what you do with this.

No, no, no, she was standing there pulling. You're supposed to do the dun-dan-na-na-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. That's not the only thing. There are multiple uses for us thinking. Tell us how she used it. She's standing right here. I'm sitting right here and eating dinner. And she's pulling it, pulling it, pulling it, and then snaps, no glasses on right in the left eye.

Ouch. I was in pain. And the first thing I thought about were the string of eyepokes in our sport, and I was like, yeah, could you imagine? If I'm in this much pain, could you imagine what it's like to get poked in the eye by a fighter? Did you get the lid down in time?

Oh, absolutely not. It's still bothering me. Wow. Yeah. Straight to the corner of this. Still bother me. I'm here, you know, it showed up. Whoa.

Driving with one eye. Oh, yeah. And during all the society. How was Claire's trauma from seeing dad get all effed up like that? She felt bad. She felt bad. I didn't get mad at her.

I was just like, I was, it was, it was. No, no, no. I saw. I saw on her Twitter. she says, but you've got to keep fighting. See, now you're trying to make light of it. Claire! It literally hit me right in the eye.

Sunday night. Where's my daughter? I can't see her. I'm mourning the Jays. It's halftime of the football game of the of the Bill's Chiefs game and I get nailed in the eye. I can feel the tension that occurred in that moment. It's brutal. Days later in another part of the world.

Well, okay, true or false. Yesterday on the program. Andy slacks me in the middle of the show, saying, is your eye okay? Okay, I can't lie. Also today, I was like, it looks like Ariel's hurt in a little bit. Yeah, because the light is very strong, and so the eye is still going through it, and I'm like... I think you're just winking at us. No, no, no, no.

So would you say, though, Claire did it accidentally or intentionally? You see, I'm not even going to play this. You guys are trying to get me in trouble. No one's trying to get you in trouble. I'm just telling you about the time I got hit in the eye via slinky. It looks... Automatically grounded? A no contest?

Is it automatically grounded, or is it? in danger. Is Claire on time out? She lose a point. I've never grounded. She's decued? Or is she, is it a no contest and just play out? No groundings, just YouTube ads. Just YouTube ads? Claire. From now until you're 18. Sit. You have to sit through 15 YouTube ads.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I didn't tell them about that because if they find out that there's such a thing that can help them bypass the ads, they will be very upset that they've had to. I'm going to tell them. I'm sorry. I just enjoy hearing them recite some. They tell me about ads. They're like, go there's this thing that's out or this movie's coming I'm like oh I don't know I got YouTube premium tell me about it or wait they are the ads

this politician what's YouTube premium yeah yeah yeah oh no no no said anything yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm like what what is uh what is Curtis Silwa saying these days and they're like is it Silva back to the goat Sliwa Slewa damn it what's he saying these days and they'll recite his whole

so you prefer this I just want to be clear you like them watching that instead of yeah I think I got some messages actually about it. Or shot five times. Yeah, yeah. In front of my bagels store in 1993. That's what you want them seeing instead of like...

Yeah, I want them to know what's up. The gumdrop game that Claire wants to watch somebody play. Yeah, yeah, 100%. All right. 100%. So I didn't tell them that, but I did tell my wife that we spoke about the, you know, the DX chop incident of 1998. And she claims that the teacher was not gracious enough that she actually really truly

didn't remember the story and that we're giving her too much credit. And also she claims, she takes issue with the thought that I was you know, saying yesterday, which was she threw me under the bus. She takes issue and feels like she has been slandered on the program multiple

times and she would like the opportunity to clear the air. I said we're booked for the week so we don't have time for that. I think a segment with Jack on would be fantastic. Definitely not a good rap sheet. She brought up the compost, stacked accusations of a few years ago. Has she brought up the incessant microwave jokes from Frank?

You know what? Truth be told, I don't think she knows about them. Uh-oh. So there's that. She's not watching. Let's just stick that one in the microwave of it for a minute, all right? Let's make a list. The microwave.

You've posted the Halloween picture, and Frank's like, what is that above the stove? Yeah, yeah. The microwave. Yeah, from 2005. Is this, you're making notes. Does that mean that we are getting the Jacqueline segment? I'm trying to see if there's enough material. Are the accusations accurate?

Okay, but the key is you can't be the one interviewing. 100%. No, no, you're too biased. You're going to have around boys in the back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Imagine, oh, my God. She's going to give a pound for pound. Things that aerial practice.

We'll do boys in the backyard live from your backyard next to the pile of compost. Oh, my God. Should we do just the whole family? It's like we bring one at a time in and we just interview them. We'll interview all the kids. And the kids come in. Oh, my God. Your parents?

We can have to hold. We'll interrogate Claire on the slinky incident. Yeah, ask her about it. Intentional. Claims to feel bad. Claire tells us that it was actually Ariel playing with it himself and let it go and it hit him in the eye, but she's getting blamed for it. Macha could tell you a few things. I mean, if Macha could talk.

If Mata could talk, you know what I mean? That would be great. There's a lot there. Yeah. All right, so Bucket, Jacqueline. No, we only have three items here. Remember when we used to do the awards and say like, most desired guest.

Jacqueline is number one. It was like Lorenzo, Gina Carrano. Now it's Jacqueline Hawani. All right, great stuff there. Also, I did want to mention one last thing. I wanted to pull this up. Did I lose it? Damn it.

I might have lost it. Stuff. Damn it. We do have super chats or no? Oh, yeah. Okay, so I'll come back to it. I think we have maybe one or two. Before we do super chats, I just want to say,

on that teacher front, we got a great email from Brett from Nebraska. A regular caller on BITB, thank you for sharing that. That was an incredible email. Oh, yeah, you read it to me. It was incredible. And basically, the summary was, there's no way she remembers. And it's hard out there for teachers, and we're saluting all of you during the beginning of the school year.

So thank you to all the teachers out there. Much love, much love. Peace and love. Peace and love. Peace and love. Okay, Frankie. What do we got? Congrats on returning to the Olympics for the CBC in 2020.

Oh, thanks. I'm curious, what are the differences in how? CBC presents the Olympics as compared to MBC. Jake, I got to say that's a phenomenal question. CBC takes a more global approach to their Olympic coverage. And what I mean by that is, and I'm not joking, you know, NBC, and I don't think this is wrong, per se, NBC's coverage is very much centered around America, right? Like, you'll rarely get a non-American, unless it's like, you know, the 100 meter dash and there's no Americans in there. It's very American-centric.

And now, of course, with Peacock and their coverage was, you know, I think like everyone loved it over the summer of 24. I was unable to partake because I didn't have access to Peacock. But, well, I did have a VPN, but I wasn't trying to watch the competitor, if I'm being 100% honest. Now it's much different, but over the years when it was just essentially on the NBC family of networks, the criticism, if we want to say criticism. was that it was very American-centric. Do you guys agree? And I'm not saying that's bad,

but CBC's approach has always been a little bit more global. Is it weighted towards Canada? Absolutely. But ultimately, they don't, you know, make a final decision. If there's a, if there's a more important event or athlete competing that's not Canadian, they will give that event or athlete more attention than if there's a lesser event happening that's, you know, Canadian-centric, Canadian team or Canadian athlete, that type of thing. So they kind of pride themselves on it. Obviously, when I was doing my show in Paris, it was called Paris Tonight, and I would say, I don't know, 80% was geared towards Canada, but there was a lot of lifestyle stuff. And, you know, when big things were happening, that were non-Canadian, we still

talked about it. And it was, you know, in the recap of the day and whatnot. This time around, I'm going to be doing a similar show. It will be in Livigno, which is close to the Swiss Alps. It's where the skiing, snowboarding, that type of stuff is going to be happening. So I'm actually not going to be in Milan other than flying into Milan. And by the way, good thing you asked, I'm actually going to Toronto this week back into the week. I was hoping to be there maybe for the parade, but alas, didn't really work out that way to meet with my friends over at the CBC and to talk about these plans. So I'm looking forward to that very much. By the way, I was so happy that we were doing the show yesterday when this prayer was going on. I have to say, I meant to tweet

this, but I know everyone was going to say like, oh, you're coping, you're coping, you're coping. I don't know if you guys watched a lot of the footage. I thought the Dodgers looked like jackasses. I thought they embarrassed themselves. I mean, do you guys see some of this stuff? I mean, there was this one clip where they're kind of mocking the the ball being lodged moment. Like, you're mocking it. You're mocking a play that was controversial in which you didn't play the ball and called for it to be a ground rule double, and now you're laughing. And then the Kiki Hernandez thing, did you guys see he quoted, you know, the famous

Connor McGregor, UFC 205 interview, apologized to no one. But like the setup was just, it was, you know, he fumbled his way through it, if we're being honest, called himself the triple champ. I mean, yeah, you got a, you got an A on the group project, Kiki. Let's be honest, okay? I mean, if Pahas doesn't catch that ball, you're remembered for the guy who missed Ernie Clement's fly ball, okay? But the main thing for me was that I was an even bigger Blue Jays fan last night because they are classy, they are professional, they are respectful, they would never conduct themselves the way in which the Dodgers did yesterday. So, you know. Also, I found it weird, by the way. Like, I know,

Joe Davis. I'm glad you missed this. You said the show was on. You didn't get to see this. No, I saw it last night. All of a sudden, it hit me right in the face. I didn't see any of this. Joe Davis is like emceeing the parade. The guy is the Fox National Baseball announcer. And now he's

emceeing the parade. I know he works for the Dodgers. I know he's their play-by-play guy the vast majority of the season. But let me ask you this, especially you New York, Rick. Mike Breen is the voice of the NBA and ESPN. He's also the voice of the New York Knicks. If the Knicks won the NBA Finals, you think Mike Breen would be out there with pom-poms

emceeing a parade? I don't know, but I wouldn't have an issue with it. I have an issue. I'd be like Mike Breen's the Knicks play-by-play guy. It was a little much. And then his call. What about his call? Oh, the banger.

To beat the champion, you gotta knock him out. Wack. Fire. Come on, you don't think that's fire. It was awful. It was absolutely awful. I saw a tweet from you about that. Yeah, it was shit.

I thought you said you missed it and you didn't. you didn't react to it and now you did. No, I literally said it was shit. I know, but this whole thing started, the premise of why you started this rant was, I'm so glad we were on air because I missed all this and now we've had seven different examples of...

He's talking about the call from Saturday night. Yeah, I'm calling it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When they won the World Series, you give a great call and then you let it breathe and his was to beat the champ, you got to knock them out. You agree it was lame? You agree it was lame? I do, yeah. I also thought book Shombies on ESPN Radio wasn't good either.

Here's the thing. He said that exact line for a like August series against the, I believe it was the Padres in 2018. He used that line. Matt Kemp had a walk off and he said to beat the champs, you got to knock them out. He recycled the line seven years later after one of the greatest world series of all time. I'm sorry. I know I know it's, I'm not trying to be the guy who's like hating on the new Joe Buck. That's not me.

I promise you. I know it's a difficult job. But I have to say, recycling a lot. you couldn't think of anything better in that moment? Oh, come on. And, oh, by the way. What do you mean think of it in that moment? He knew exactly what he was going to say.

He practiced it in the mirror 1,800 times. Exactly, which makes it worse. That's what I'm saying. You don't recycle lines. Mike Brie would never recycle. You mean bang is the thing that you recycles it ever? The bang merchant, bro. Oh, my God.

No, I don't mean that. I mean the championship clinching line. No, no, no. I'm all right. No, no. Seven years is a long time. This is for you. No, no, no.

That's not it either. Shut to Mike Brin That's not What is it? Anything is possible What did him say? I can't believe we did it Oh, oh Mike

And then he said that anything You see he like copied Yeah he copied No he copied Kobe I think it was Oh okay I'm getting chills Because I remember

He said This is what he said This is what he said This is what he said This is what he said This is this is a true Professional right Let me just one second

One second This is Mike Brin This is you telling me this is You tell me this is recycled Oh right This is, listen, listen. The Thunder had taken the NBA by storm For the first time, the NBA

The NBA champion resides in Oklahoma City. The Thunder have taken the NBA by storm. Like, is that not class? Wow. That's, stop it. Stop it. How dare you. For the first time, the champion,

to beat the champion. And by the way, not to get literal, not to get literal, but you don't actually have to. knock him out. Like to be the champ, you don't have to actually knock out the defending champion. Like you can win via a multitude of ways. Would you felt better if he said to be the champ, you got to beat the champ? 1,000%. No, because you said that in my tweet. No, no, no, no, because that's paying homage to a historical line uttered by one of the greatest of all time, Rick Flair. To be

the champ, you got to beat the champ, I get it. I get it. And you know what had been a great line. If the Js would have won, to be the champ, you got to beat the champ, and they just did, or something like that. Now you're modifying it to make it your own. But you literally recycled the line that you uttered for a regular season series seven years ago. And oh, by the way, what you said was actually factually incorrect. I mean, that, to me, grounds for dismissal. And also, I'm just glad you're not taking this at that round of all. I'm just glad that you're taking this ball. Bro got a raise in a contract extension. Also, then after there are accusations that you are a homer in the national broadcast, Miguel Rojas

hits the home run to tie the game. He goes, the call is, no way. like again to my son reacting to when I show speed like beats a football player in a 100 meter dash that's the reaction and now he's acting as the cheerleader and the MC for the parade I mean talk about integrity being questioned John Annick all-timer Leon Edwards Quarro Usman he said no way what the cut from the same cloth one

and then when he gets lends the head kick he screams no way No way does not feel like it is biased in either directions. Sounded to me like a guy reacting because he was so happy that they just tied it in the top of the nine. I will say this. I do know that it sounded like that to you. That I definitely know. What's Joe Buck's quote?

It's just like my least favorite team is your favorite team. No, I know. By the way, I'm a, I am very aware that this is all stupid and irrational. And that's the beauty of sports, but I was perturbed yesterday. I'm okay with the team's commentary doing the parade. That's fine for me. I watched the...

Even though they're national. They acted like jackasses yesterday. I'm sorry, they embarrassed themselves. They did. Kiki, you see the Kiki thing? The guys walking around there cutting promos like he's the main character. Like, bro, you got an A in the group project.

You did nothing. You did nothing. Yeah, you did nothing. You almost had the game-winning run, go over your head, and Pius helped you out. I love when the ancillary characters act like they contributed. That's my favorite part. That's my favorite part. Did he not contribute?

I love Mark Madsen. I need a stat line on Kike Arnette. Wait, wait. You didn't love Mark Madsen dancing like a fool on the stage even though he did nothing? You didn't love that? That's not your favorite memory of the Lakers. That's him just kind of being a goof. Yeah, that's the point. He didn't do shit.

All right. He didn't even play. This guy ain't cutting promos. Kiki Hernandez batted 22, four hits. Four hits. In that series, 22 wasn't so bad, by the way. No, I'm seeing three RBIs in the World Series. Right, I'm looking at it right here. He had a home run. He had an RBI in game one.

Four hits. Where is it? Where is it? I'm seeing five hits. Five hits, three RBIs, one home run. Oh, so he was all right. First of all, that ain't great. Nah, that's pretty good in that world.

If you want a shit on him, shit on him the season long, he hit 203. That's tough. Go, season long, two or three. I mean, he's hovering around. the Mendoza line. He's literally a single A. Jessica Mendoza got some bias. Yeah.

Oh, that was a tough one. That was a tough one. I saw that. I saw it. What was it? Was it the, it was the Davis Schneider lead off home run? And she's like,

Driggis, she's like, and then she's like, she's going over to like pick something up, but she's like, like you could tell how mad she is. Does she have any ties to the Dodgers? I'm pretty sure she's like L.A. Born and Ray.

Ah, okay. Could be completely wrong. What did Boog say? I like Boog. I love Boogh Chompy. Yeah, he's the man. He just said like a back-to-back Dodgers World Series champs. That's what Ariel wants.

He wants no bias. Just call it as it is. By the way. Back-to-back bullshit. The Blue Jays should have won. I'm Joe Davis signing off. World Series Game 7. That would have been the call.

Yeah. They stole it. Stolen series. Stolen title. Oh man, one of the greatest ever, Tom Cheek, when Joe Carter hits the home run in 1983, he goes, touch them all, Joe. You'll never hit a bigger home run in your life. And then I think it was Sean McDonough as he's crossing home plate. He says, the winners and still champions, the Toronto Blue Jays.

And that to me is like referencing the fight game and still because they went back to back that year. That's, you know. this is truly the moment I have been waiting for that would have been more appropriate anyway what else Frank what else

yeah what else Jesus Christ that was all from one super JP is such a hypocrite don't want to do business with Davis but also constantly running after Connor for a fight double standards

call it as it is okay this is an interesting one because I've actually gotten some heat for what I said at the beginning of the show and I wanted an opportunity to address it what's interesting to me is like I'm seeing some Actually, one boxing guy texted me about this, like really aggressively, calling me a shill

and all this stuff. First of all, I'll repeat the same thing that I've said a million times, never been paid once by MVP, was going to get paid by Netflix to do this card, all that stuff, and more. I could keep saying it's on blue, and people won't believe me, but that's fine. I willingly always offer up this information, and you guys know how I feel about it. But the point is, these boxing guys, were they upset when Tank Davis fought Lamont Roach? Were they upset when he fought Ryan Garcia? No, of course they weren't upset.

Because they've sort of chalked up, you know, there are questionable characters, there are bad apples and all this stuff in boxing. And, you know, it is what it is. Mike Tyson was a convicted rapist. And so they don't like the fact that Jake and MVP are. saying the reason why we are pulling the plug on this fight is because of this guy being a bad dude. And they're saying it's disingenuous that, hey, look, the ticket sales weren't great and you're now using this as an excuse. Do they think that they planted these stories? Because two new stories came up since the fight was announced. And so the reason I bring this up is

if you were okay with Tank Davis fighting Lamont Roach or Ryan Garcia or anyone else and are now upset that MVP is citing new lawsuits and allegations for the reason why they don't want to be in business. Well, I think that you're the hypocrite because then that means that before these two items came out, you were okay with Jake fighting tank, right? You were okay with it. You were okay with him resuming his career, Tank Davis, and all this stuff. And so now you just feel like what? You feel like because the ticket sales were bad? That's the only reason why. My take is MVP had to make a decision about whether or not they wanted to be in business with this guy and they said just like everyone's okay with it we're going to be okay with it

and then two new things come up in the midst of the fight promotion and they say you know what this is a bridge too far for us now do the uh do the ticket sales have anything to do with that decision i don't know i asked the case of that question he said it was going to be a very profitable event i invited him to come on the show there's a lot going on he said he would come on once they find the opponent. Great. And we'll talk more about it. But I'm not, I have no, I have no reason to defend this fight, defend the, the, the cancellation

of the fight, no reason whatsoever. I mean, I just, my only, my only opinion is, I think they made the right call. And by the way, whether that call is because the ticket sales weren't good, they made the right call. And whether that call is because they feel like they don't want to be in business with the guy when they're in so, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, invested in women's boxing, they made the right call. Ultimately, it was the right call. Now, you may have an issue with the reason they're giving. That's fine. But who disagrees with the call? So ultimately, like, what are you mad at them about? You're saying that they're, oh,

you were, if I'm trying to figure this out, you guys were okay to do business with him two months ago, and now because ticket sales are bad, you're using this as an excuse? I can understand that, but there are two new allegations. If there wasn't anything new and they pin this on his previous rap sheet, then I would say, yeah, that's complete hogwash. But two new things have come up, two. Not one, two. So I think it's a little bit different.

What do you guys think? I understand where they're, like, to grandstand on this after, like, let's call it what it is. When they did the first press conference, Jake Paul is, like, call. him out on this directly. Like he's using it as part of the fight promotion. So to then come out and be like, well, we don't want to do business is a bit disingenuous and it's an opportunity to the grandstand when we knew who we were doing business with. Like nobody was confused about who Tank Davis was. So I understand the implication while also understanding what you're saying,

which is, yeah, this was the right call. And I absolutely agree with that. There's no way you can go through with this. And there are two, there's new things that have developed. And I think you should stand down and not try to do this again. But I also understand if somebody goes, well, you wanted to do business with him before and now you're using this as an opportunity. As I said, Jake Paul was like using this as fight promotion at the first press conference. Yeah, I don't know. Ultimately, I would love to talk to him about it. I understand what you're saying. We're actually going to have a conversation about this tomorrow on the program with one of our guests. Lou DeBella is going to be in studio tomorrow and I'm looking forward to that

very much. We'll also talk to Michael Chandler, and we can talk to him about this news, one other guests in the works as well. But this is the thing. For whatever reason, the conclusion that everyone always jumps to is that, you know, Jake's fixing his fights, Jake's this. It's always, it's always the negative. And I get it. And that's something that they have to work towards. I think what they're doing in boxing right now, and I'm like, I'm compliment. implementing John Martin. I have no, like, it's not always the worst possible reason that you may think. I think giving all these incredible women like Tam Tebow, like Chantal Cameron, like Amanda Serrano and Chernika Johnson and Alicia Baumgartner and Savannah Marshall, like these are the best of the best in the sport of boxing. Giving them a home to to fight and fight on big platforms is very good. I think it's a great thing and developing some other fighters as well

so whatever the case is let's see how they pivot from here it's obviously not a great situation for them it's not a great moment that's for sure and I'm curious to see how they you know how they pivot from here and if they're able to salvage a fight

for 2025 what else Frankie what else Ariel after the NBA and the UFC gambling scandals I feel heartbroken for me sports are real an escape how do I move past this feeling of betrayal. I wonder if this person is actually being serious, but I would say that it's quite easy

to move past, and I would use the Toronto Blue Jays as a great example. When you fall in love with a team who appear to be a great group of guys who are fun to root for, who you take pride in rooting for, who make a city and in this case a country proud when truly I mean like the post game scenes on Saturday night were unbelievable like the guys were like openly weeping while talking to the media and focused on the fact that they know the same team won't be back next year and they know they won't all be together in the trenches and know that they won't see each other until February all that stuff it's like wow these guys really love each other this makes it fun to root for a team like this that shouldn't that shouldn't be

lost sports like to me I started to think like, why do you care so much? Why do you care so much? And ultimately, it's caring about something bigger than yourself, being a part of a community, being a part of a community, being a part of a group of people, like you go to a game and you start high-fiving strangers. You would never do that unless you cared. And it will hurt so much because you care. It will only hurt because you care. That's why Jay's fans are heartbroken this week because they care so much. And they care so much because it's so much fun to be a part of the journey. that's what makes it fun. That's why ultimately it is better to love and lose than never love

at all. Ultimately, you want them to win so badly, I think, I think because you want to know that all the time, effort, energy, emotion that you poured into this team mattered, that there was a positive outcome, that there was a reason for it at the end of the day. Now you can obviously say that the reason is the journey and the camaraderie and the texting with your friends and the hanging out and all this stuff. But sports are the greatest escape in this world. Like, there's a lot of shit that happens in sports. There's a lot of ugliness in sports, but there is no better feeling than your team winning a big game on a random weeknight and then going to bed, just dreaming about the game, or looking at your phone and going through all the content, or waking up the

next morning and talking to your friends about it or texting to your friends about it and listening to a podcast and rewatching the highlights. That's just like an unexpected high that comes to you on a random Tuesday in October. That's incredible. Or a random Sunday in November. or a random Sunday in February. You know what I mean? That's a gift. People who aren't sports fans don't get that. And so I would say, if you are being sincere, don't lose that, don't throw that away,

look for the good, root for the good, and it will all be worth it. That's to me what it means to be a sports fan. Some of the greatest moments of my life have come as a result of being a sports fan. The grand slam by Brad Wilkerson at that game in 2003. being at game six with my kids, all the great Knicks moments, Alan Houston in 1999, making the finals in 1994, making the finals in 1999, the LJ four point play, the four Super Bowls that I got to see the Bills go to. Bills versus Ravens last year was unbelievable, beating the Patriots and the playoffs, and on and on it goes. I mean, just this year with

the Blue Jays, it's a gift. It doesn't always end. It rarely ends the way you want it to to end, to be honest. It rarely ends, but the bottom line is, I think it's worth it. I think it's worth investing because of those highs that you get. And the lows will feel way worse than the highs feel good, but I still think it's worth it. You'll have moments where you'll feel bad. And so like all this stuff is shitty. All this stuff feels bad, but I think you can find the good. You could root for people like Vladdy and it makes it all worth it. Or like Josh right over here. I think I pick some real winners. I need a jail in Brunson. That's what I need. What else, Frankie? What else?

in sports bets, I guess books, know the fight was fixed and you didn't. Is this for, maybe this is for Mark? Yes. Well, I don't know. I can't answer that. Not here's speculative.

This one is also for Mark, assuming. Why do you look so guilty? Okay, all right. We don't have to read all of them, by the way, but yes, okay, fine. Keep going. Do we know why Brandon Royval left Factory X?

I don't know. But I can ask. what else frankie any chance is we see jdm in studio soon stop it with his name uh you know i i asked uh timbo i asked timbo if jdm would stop by he's going to be in new york soon for the fight and he's like uh maybe after the fight

you know it's tough it's a big fight week i get it but you know we'll actually have uh next tuesday we'll have malcolm wellmaker in studio forward to that the georgia boy yeah uh chil p will be in studio uh next monday as well I was here, working on some others as well. JDM will come in Monday. Monday with the belt. Yeah, tradition.

Spit shined. Ready to go. What else, Frankie? What else? Great work on the investigation and interview aerial. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Benny.

What else, Frankie? And then lastly, G.C. looking extra sharp yesterday, show J shirt. Show J shirt. What was the shirt yesterday? I'm not sure what show J shirt was. It was just a quarter-or-way-over shirt. All right. All right.

Yeah, I had some good pants on, too. You were feeling yourself. That was a nice fit. Yeah. It was a nice fit. Appreciate you, Sammy. Oh, yeah. Hell yeah.

Was that it? That's all she wrote. Okay. Thank you, Frankie. I'm going to actually speak to some students over at Syracuse University. Oh, shit. Yeah. Alma mater.

Not in Syracuse, but the Newhouse has a building here in New York. So I'm looking forward to that. That's later tonight. That's why I'm bringing it off. Nice. Yeah, I'm pretty excited. I also noticed that you can actually do, like, I did like a dubstep remix. Nice. What do you mean? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo. I like it. You're pulling people's speakers out right now.

You're actually doing this? On Thursday, Frank, I was going to the bathroom when Frank was playing the outro of boys in the back, and he started remixing it live on the air. It was actually pretty impressive. I was like, man, that sounded pretty good. What was that? He's like, oh, I was DJing. He was cooking up on the air, yeah. Yeah, respect. Frank, respect. Thanks, man. All right, it's time to go. Any updates on the gubernatorial race?

Oh, well, thank you. Wow, I didn't realize we had those. No. Oh, nothing. The update on the New York gubernatorial race appears to be that it's happening in 2026. Ah. So standby, stand strong.

What about the mayorial race? Mayorial. Mayorio race? Polls will be closing at night. Extra till a little. And then it'll Everything will start flooding in. We'll wake up to a new world here in...

When does the new mayor take office? As soon as the ballots are done. No, it's serious? Yes. Oh, it's not like a... Hey, they get elected in November but are sworn in and... With the old and with the new. Holy smokes.

What's the house called? NYC Mayor House. What's it? It's called Gracie Mansion. Oh, your mic's not on, so you don't get credit. What's funny is it, it's actually on. Oh, my God. This is a Frank. Frank has silenced Eric because he voted for Curtis Sweenle. This is ridiculous. Frank? My God. How do you respond to the allegations? Ricky pulled up in a beret today and Frank was picked.

Red? What did happen to his microphone? The cable has started to fall out. Wow. Just as he said, Gracie's freak in. I literally was motioning to him earlier. I need to fix the cable. This is sabotaged by Frank. I agree. Say cats for Curtis and it's going to go mute again.

They're not all your takes. Thank you, Norma Dumont, John Martin, Al Jemate Sterling, Mark Montoya. Thanks to you. Thanks to them. Back on what they say. This is a piece. I'm out here.