The Ariel Helwani Show - Rico Verhoeven, Peter Fury, Ben Shalom, Hamzah Sheeraz, massive weekend recap, AND the Knicks are going to the NBA Finals!

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

Ariel Helwani begins the show by celebrating the continued fairy-tale run of his New York Knicks, then discussing an eclectic combat sports weekend that included the controversial ending to Oleksandr Usyk vs. Rico Verhoeven (13:00). WBO super middleweight champion Hamzah Sheeraz joins the show following his knockout of Alem Begic, talking about what’s next, expressing his interest in fighting Canelo, and more (41:01). Rico Verhoeven is back to break down the controversy around his fight with Usyk, then talks about being able to defy expectations, being happy with his performance, how he scored the rounds, wanting an apology from the officials, what he plans to do next, talks of fighting Francis Ngannou, and more (58:19). Peter Fury, Verheoven’s coach, joins to give his thoughts on the fight, then discuss his training with Verhoeven over the years, their game plan, speaking with the referee after the bout, also working with Tom Aspinall, and more (1:48:14). BOXXER headman Ben Shalom is our final guest of the day, reacting to the outcome of Usyk vs. Verhoeven, then talks about Adam Azim upcoming bout against Steve Claggett, the promotion’s broadcast deal with the BBC, Ben Whittaker signing with Matchroom, the contract status of Chris Eubank Jr., and more (2:17:32). Ariel covers some more news and notes, including other action from the weekend, White House updates, Conor McGregor’s recent training, and more (2:46:34), before ending with your Super Chats (3:22:34).

Lain gentlemen, welcome to the Air... May 26, 2006. Hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. You missed you yesterday. In case you were wondering, we were off yesterday. It was Memorial Day here in the United States. People like to say things like happy Memorial Day. People like to talk about their plans.

People like to talk about their fun. Even like to complain about the weather, lest we forget, Memorial Day is all about and we tip our cap to all those who paid the ultimate price, all those families who suffer on a day like yesterday while others are out having fun. And I know that you can say that, hey, people, you know, they want you to be free and celebrate. And there is an element to that. But there's a lot of hurt and there's a lot of pain. And so I salute and tip my cap to everyone affected to all those who fell defending this great

country and we hope that the families are are hanging in as much as possible. These are these are tough days, tough memories, tough moments and I send my I send my love to all those who fought to defend this country and continue to fight to defend this country. So much love. It's great to be back though. There was a lot that happened since we last spoke in case you are wondering in case you are wondering if I look different, why I look different, what's different? Yes, I do not have my glasses, my friends.

And where is his glasses? He can't see without his glasses. Frank's been dying to play that for the past, I don't know, 45 minutes since we realized that I left my glasses at home. And allow me to explain why I left my glasses at home. I left my glasses at home because last night at around, I don't know, 1020, 10.30 p.m. Eastern time, I was watching a basketball game.

and it became clear around midway through the fourth quarter that this game was over and that something special was about to happen and that I was going to witness something that I had not witnessed in 27 years. And so I ran upstairs and I got my glasses because I wanted to see it. I wanted to feel it. And it was a feeling that, quite frankly, as an adult, I have never felt because those who know me, those who know me well, those who have been on this ride with me since 2009 since we started this show in this building on this floor somewhere in the vicinity of

this floor not this exact studio but you know the story by now about how we came full circle so to speak those who have been with me know how much I adore the New York Knicks and you know that there have been two teams that have been you know on my for all this time and you know how the story always ends and so I sit here today you know there's been these these Mondays these these Tuesdays, these Thursdays, the heartbreak, me feeling down, me wanting to cry me, all this. I just want to see one. I don't want to care. I just want to see one.

Just one. And then I'll die in peace. And so I sit here today on May 26th of the year 2026, staring at this, the New York Daily News, onto the finals. No doubt. Staring at this, the New York Post, party like it's 1999, the last time the Nix made the finals, was in 11th grade, 16 years old, finally, staring at this and not believing that this is a reality, not believing that the Knicks are four games away from actually finally doing it for the first time since 1973. I've never witnessed it. I've never witnessed any of my teams

win anything. And they may never get a better chance than this. I need to figure out a way to go at least to one of these games. But it was very, very special being there watching with my kids, my spoiled kids who don't quite realize how bleak it was, how bad it was, how depressing it was, how damn crappy the Knicks were for about, you know, 2001 to 2012, they didn't win a single playoff game. I remember bringing my son home, who's now 14, in 2012, May, I think we brought him home, May 1st, 2012, they were playing the heat in the playoffs. They were down 3-0 on a Sunday afternoon. They beat the heat to go down 3-1. That was the only game they won, but it was their first playoff win in about 10 years, if not exactly 10 years, and confetti came down.

That's how desperate we were, not for playoff series wins, for playoff wins, games. And then we had the nice run in 2013. It ends on a Saturday night, Roy Hibbert Blocks Mello at the Rim. And then we suck again. And then there's a year in 2015, 17 and 65. and we can rifle off all the names, it was awful. And so to see this,

to see them celebrating, to see them four wins away, and not just winning, but doing so with this kind of dominance, historical dominance, this is the greatest 11 game stretch, not only in NBA playoff history, but in NBA history,

plus I think 262 point differential, it's absurd. They are killing teams. And so when I see this, when I see this with the trophy and it all started with the NBA Cup. I told you, a mentality was born. I don't know what to make.

I don't know what to make of it. And then what broke me, two things broke me last night. And I'm not going to go on and on about this. I know you're here to talk about fighting. I promise. But I hope to some degree you have been on this journey with me, with us. When I saw those two guys, when I saw Clyde and Patrick, Patrick being my favorite athlete of all time,

whoever decided to do this, the passing of the torch, from Clyde to Patrick to Jalen. Oh, that broke me. And prior to that, I mean, look at that. That smile, man. I can't get enough. Prior to that, hearing Mike Breen say, for the first time in 27 years,

the Knicks are going to the finals, Mike Breen, who has suffered through so many bad Knicks games as the voice of the New York Knicks, of course, the voice of the NBA as well. True Mench, all-time Mench. Ah, so hard. Look at Jalen. I've said this on the show,

before. I said that Jalen Brunson is going to hold that trophy. And that's not the one that I want. And that's not the one that he wants. And I love the way they celebrated, by the way. Muted celebration, not over the top. Jobs not finished. It was perfect. There was no beer. There was no champagne. None of that nonsense. They are out to win it all. I felt it when he signed with the Knicks. I have the tweet from back then, steal the cinch, I said. And everyone gave me crap. Jalen Brunson, six-foot-one, the saddest sweepstakes in sports history? No, that guy's a winner. Two-time national champion. Josh Hart won once. McHill Bridges won twice. Every single move that they've made from Jalen to OG to Kat to McKell to Tibbs firing to Mike Brown. It's just been unbelievable.

I'm riding high, guys. I am riding high. And I tell you, I'm happy this series is over because my dear friend New York, Rick, has been suffering. And I know deep down he loves the Knicks because he's New York freaking Rick. I know deep down. And so now we can shed that bad weight and he can now join. I know you like the Knicks because there's more Knicks fans in your life

than Cavs fans. That is true. You're happy for your city, for your state, for your team, your closet team. I know you're happy for us. And so I say... All of those things are true except for the team part. I love my friends.

I'm happy for you. I'm happy for the city. I was at Penn Station yesterday coming home Not a Knicks fan Good luck Don't give me good luck Good luck Join us

Come on GG No Come on By the way Roll the tape 2016 I was rooting for you

2016 I said I was happy for you I'm happy for you I didn't give you a passive good luck I gave you I'm here with you Frontlines Routing for your guys That's easy though

Because your team Not wasn't in it. I hated those guys. I was salty about J.R. Smith and Eamon Chumper. Good luck. What is that? Is that a Knicks jersey there?

That's an A.E.W. jersey. Yeah. That's a T-shirt. I can't see shit. I can't see shit. I forgot to put this on before the show. I was like, oh, God, we have so much to talk about. It's a $60 t-shirt.

Is that Knicks colors? It is. Oh, my God. What does it say? Oh, double or nothing. There were Nick's chance in the arena at AEW. Guys, I got to be honest. I can't think about anything else.

there's nothing you could do or say to me. Like, I don't care what anyone says to me does that can ruin my mood right now. This is sports nirvana. It's a magical feeling. I'm too hungover to deal with these people tonight. Guys, I feel hungover. I feel, you know that mix of like euphoria? Well, the drinks didn't help, obviously.

I didn't have shit. The 15 champagne's definitely didn't help. You know when you're like super tired but also happy? Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. That is like the ultimate hot. I feel I can't even see shit. I can't.

I don't know what I'm doing. here, I'm like, it's very hard to process, but the job's not finished, guys. All bets are off if in two weeks we actually do pull this off, like, the job's not finished. We got to go to OKC or San Antonio, and we want San Antonio. Who's we? We want San Antonio. I say we all fucking go. I'll pay for everyone.

Oh, okay. All right, we're in. I am a Knicks fan now. I love the idea of you driving into work. I know you said you don't need them, but just like every other car is just blurry as hell. And you're just like, how about those Knicks, baby? Sports radio on talking Nick. I had to say, part of the problem was I had to take my kids to school till.

Usually I don't on show days by my wife's out of town. And so we were listening to everything. And they're like, okay, okay. No, no, no, no. It's not okay. We are listening to everything. Every breakdown. They move on to a different topic.

We're changing the channel. I'm going from here to their podcast. Local sports radio. Dad, it's green. WFAN. It's nothing better. ESPN Radio 1050. Come see, come so.

Went to serious accent to listen to Frank Azole of the Hater. My son actually. actually hit me. Shots at Frank, his son hit me with a good one. I'm like, oh, listen to Frank. Listen to Frank.

He hates the Knicks. He won't give them any credit. And he goes, don't people say you hate Dana White? And I'm like, oh, man, you've been on the internet too much. Damn. 12- Great point.

Oh, this isn't even the one with the phone. No. What's the deal with Frank? It's like he said something like, talk to me when they win 10 games or something. Frank is the number one Tibbs lover. But what's the one that keeps circulating now? Yeah, yeah.

He said, when you guys win 12 games, give me a ball. Yeah. Here we are. Okay, almost went 12 in a row. This is nuts, guys. Guys, it's nuts. It's not even like we're squeaking by. Oh, by the way, since we last spoke,

I went to game three, which feels like an eternity ago. And that was just one big party. It was never in doubt. I don't know what to do. I just want to warn everyone. Jesus, was that game three? No, it was two.

Yeah, I think it was game two. It was game two because we had home court. That's right. That was Thursday. Correct. The game after the freaking comeback. I don't know how the chips are going to fall, but if we, if, if, big if, I'm not

overlooking, but if we win post like the day after, the show the next day is going to be a mess. There will be no show. I'm just going to. Yeah, you're trying to do the math on what day that could be. There ain't no way. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Okay, should we talk about other things? No. But we're cool, right? It's weird that I've beaten

both of your teams in this run. Yeah, you love those both. both in your way. Yeah. It's really weird that the Hawks perform the best out of anyone. Dubs. I know. Everything changed after that game three loss. Shout out Mike Brown.

Former Cavs coach. The guy, the man, the freaking man. Did I text him? Congratulations, maybe. Like, am I, you know, on my text buddies with the next head coach? Did he respond? What did he say? Did he text back?

Of course he responded. He's a fucking man. Sorry, man. I don't really give a fuck about the Knicks. Did you see Rico get robbed on Saturday? Hell yeah, coach. Okay, okay. I promise.

Because I respect the fact that there's probably 99.9% of you out there that do not care about this. I'm not trying to like overlook that, but please just be happy for me, okay? That's all I ask. And not just me. Every single fan out there. And even, I mean, Patrick, it's Patrick's face. That one shot of Patrick standing

next to the bench, uh, killed me. It broke me. Today's gonna be a great day. We have a lot to discuss. We have to keep it on target. What am I trying to say, guys? What am I trying to say? Rico Verhoeven got robbed. Rico Verhoeven in the dead of night in Egypt got robbed. And we're going to talk to him on today's program about that.

We're going to talk to Hamza Shiras, who also won on that card as well. Peter Fury, the head coach for Rico Verhoeven, is going to join us. And Ben Shalom has a big show. And yes, it's a lot of boxing talk on today's show. Yeah, guess what? There was no MMA really of note. And the only MMA that happened to happen this past weekend of note happened at the Pecks, yes, but it was trash. It was absolute trash and the audacity of these people to tell us that

what transpired at the Intuit dome nine or so days ago set the sport back and now the home of the UFC is putting on absolute dog shit trash and then telling us afterwards, oh, you know, it's great. It's, you know, it's authentic. It's not manufactured. And then you've got Dana White and Hunter Campbell up there be like, this is so great. This is so great. It was. It was so great. was like, what was that? Was it like bum fights? What was that? That was not even influencer fights. At least in the influencer fights, they show up like somewhat, you know, ripped, probably juiced up, but they've got abs. This was, this was trash. And it was happening at the place where UFC fighters fight, what? So what do you want me to talk about? You want me to talk about that? You want me to have

Johnny Mansell on the program to talk about his fight against Bob Menry? All of a sudden, who the fuck is Bob Menry? Like, what is this claim to fame? Why do I keep hearing? Why do I keep hearing about this guy. Why do I care about this guy? I don't know. I know who Lance Stevenson is and Beasley. I know who those guys are. It was trash. And Ray Jha. Shout out Raja. I do want to just add a nice name for the resume for Patrick Hobby Rora as well this week. You know, over over the week. Yeah, that was. He's going to be on the show tomorrow. Shout out to him. By the way, did that set the sport back? We're the takes on that one. Here's a minus 2000. He should have been a minus 10,000.

That was lamb to slaughter. 100%. I mean, I was never really into that fight to begin with, truly, like, it didn't do anything for me. Because my take was on that particular fight, Habirora is going to sell out that place, regardless of who the B-side is. So why do you have to sacrifice Benson Henderson? You know what I mean? But isn't this a tale as old as time in M&A? Like, I'm going the other way, which is this is not bad for the sport and never was bad for the sport. Oh, I don't have any issue with this fight. I don't have any issue with this fight the same way I have. had no issue with Ronda Rousey versus Gina Carano. Like, sometimes it's just a squashback.

This is a knockout and it's a little bit harder to stomach. But yes, this is the fight game. The fight game is a vicious cycle. First you're the killer, then you're killed, and on and on it goes. I just think it was a mismatch. He can fight a tougher opponent. No problem. No doubt it could happen and he's probably going to knock him out too.

But Benson Henderson is a better name to him on his resume. man, this is how MMA goes. Do you think any differently about Patrick Cabby Roy today than you did last week? I didn't learn a single thing about him. Did it sell an extra ticket? Yes. Maybe. Wait, you're saying Benson's name?

You think Benson Henderson sold tickets in Brussels? He was going to sell no matter what. It was all about Patrick, but it did a sold-out event and they didn't have to take any risk. This is a no-risk fight. He was always going to beat Benson-Henderson, easy. And that's what they got. There are times where it's like, hey, beating this guy. this veteran who's on the downside elevates you.

I don't think this matchup elevated him when it was made, and I don't think the matchup elevated him in the aftermath. To be clear, I wasn't upset about it. I'm not going to do the revisionist history thing and be like, oh, you know, I was offended by it when I didn't say that beforehand. You have to keep that same energy. I'm just saying, it didn't need to happen.

You're 100% right. There was no reason. And when they told us about, remember, he broke it on the show. When he told us about, like, oh, this feels like a very Bellator matchup. You know what I mean? It felt like a very...

This is MMA. I got no issue with it. It's the fight game, really? It's the fight game. Yeah, I mean, it's boxing too, but more to, you know, more to recent history. It's been the sport of MMA. You make your name on these guys. Benson Henderson goes out on his back and Patrick Huberora goes over. This is just how this goes.

I got no issue with it. What a weekend for sports? Congratulations. All the Spurs fans out there on Air Jordan. Mr. Carroll in attendance with Ptze. Ptie, hopefully going to join us back into the show. congratulations to Arsenal and of course they're playing

in the Champions League final just a lot has happened a lot has happened but can we go back to Rico can we go back to Rico here's how I feel about the Rico Verhoeven versus Alexander Usik fight

this fight was announced on a Friday it was met from the boxing community with a lot of eye rolling a lot of this again this is nonsense

who the hell is Rico Verhoeven I remember everyone was very dismissive of this guy the greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time, and certainly the most dominant kickboxer period of the last 10 years, like certainly not a schmuck or anyone who is, you know, just like a geek off the street or some amateur. And I would say, of all the events outside of the Wembley events, the stadium shows and all that, that Turkey and his crew have pulled off, this was the best one. because it was everything that the Times Square event wasn't.

The Times Square event was a dud. It didn't feel like we were in Times Square. It didn't look like Times Square. It didn't sound like Times Square. The fight sucked. It was a dud. The juice wasn't worth to squeeze. Visually, this was unbelievable.

Now, how much did it cost for them to do that? To set that up? I have no idea. And that doesn't appear to be an issue. Visually, it was unbelievable. Visually, it was outstanding. It was 10 out of 10, 15 at a 10. 10. The fights were great. The walkouts were great. The setting was great. I don't know if they sold

a single ticket. I don't know who those people were in attendance. I don't know if anyone even cared about it in Egypt. My hunch says no. But maybe they got some money from the government. Who the hell knows? All I'm saying is, as a viewer, visually it was great. And the fights were great as well. Humza Shiras, Jack Caterall, Richard Torres getting knocked out by Frank Sanchez. Like, that was a great night of fighting. The one lone spot, of course, the dark spot was the time in between the last fight, the Shiraz fight, the co-mate event,

and the main event starting. I think it was around like 90 minutes or so. I was standing in the rain. My son had a soccer tournament in like Manalapan, way down south, New Jersey. And it was pouring. And the only thing I had going for me

was that I was watching this thing. I had my ear, and I was listening to Adelaidea Depot, Tony Bellew, Alistair Overeem, Todd Grisham, other members of the team, waxing poetic and like, I felt for them. I felt them struggling because they had to kill more

and more time. Now, people complain about these things and often there's a lot of factors. Like for the Netflix card, the fights were ending quickly and when it's a non-paper view, there's commercial breaks, you have to abide by them, you have to respect those, you can't blow through them, people have paid for them, whatnot. This was a pay-per-view, but sometimes it's the fighter. Sometimes the fighter says, I'm not walking until this time. time. We don't know what took so long, but that was the one lone spot. Once the fight happened, once the fight happened, I don't know about you guys, but I was riveted by it. The way in which RICO fought, different stance, different attack, I thought, go check out, by the way, inside boxing.

Chris Algeria, I thought, was phenomenal on this week's episode of inside boxing because he's a former kickboxer and he knows about the transition from kickboxing to boxing. The way in which he broke that down from a technical standpoint, I thought was amazing. RICO was the great. RICO was the great unknown. He wasn't even Francis and Gano to these people because they knew who Francis was from the UFC. He was fighting over in glory. And so I think a lot of people didn't realize just how smart he was and how technical

he was and how good he was. Massive credit to Peter Fury, that's part of the reason why I want to have him on the show today because he transformed a kickboxer into a high level boxer. And in the end, I thought by the time we got to the 11th round, I thought Rico was up either three or four

rounds. I'll be honest. I wasn't sitting there going like this, but I was like, all right, guy is up and if he doesn't squander this or get knocked out, he's going to win this. Like, look at the way, Rick, you've seen a lot of Rico Verhoeven over the years. We've never seen him fight like this, sort of like crouched down in the pocket, just ready to scrap. He was, he was, you know, he wasn't necessarily always using his length and range to his advantage.

He was in there. And I don't know if Usoc was prepared for that. I don't know if Uzek overlooked him. I know some people would say, oh, he was eight pounds heavy or six pounds heavy. You know, he probably wanted to be heavier because Rico is that much bigger than him. It's impossible to know how seriously he took this challenge. This is the final sequence right here. And this is when he knocks him down.

So it's a 10-8 round. And so this is the most controversial moment. Rico gets up. He loses his mouthpiece. The referee Mark Lyssen counts him out. And then he gets the mouthpiece back. And now here's the moment of truth where the fight gets stopped. The referee is in back of Ussik.

Now, we're not listening to it with sound. Do we have sound? All right, because it's very important to actually listen to the sound. The fight gets stopped after the bell. It doesn't get stopped because he got knocked out after the bell. It gets stopped TKO after the bell, which is not right. And in fact, Peter Fury told IFL, and we're going to ask him about it. He told IFL that he saw Mark Lysen on the plane and Mark said he didn't hear the bell.

Now, that's fair. Like, you didn't hear the bell, you didn't hear the bell. That's the only explanation. He did not hear the bell. And I saw some people say, oh, if it would have gone to the 12th round, he would have gone knocked out. Well, how do you know?

We've seen enough fights where someone is stumbling and then they come back and then they ride it out. Now, we see the scorecards and he was going to lose. He was going to lose based on the scorecards. I don't agree with these scorecards. Two judges had a tide going into the 11th. One judge had him up. That's a 10-8 round.

He's effed. He's absolutely effed. Here's the moment of truth. And just listen to the bell. and you can see that the fight is stopped or here after the bell sounds. Do we have one with the bell or no? I heard it.

I heard the bell. Oh, I didn't hear it. Yeah, yeah. It was there. I just heard it. Maybe it's because you're not wearing your glasses. I think it's because of the glasses. Let's hear it one more time.

Sorry. Look how lady is. Look how lady is. Now, are you trying to say that he was being boxed out by Usik? I don't get it. It was a bad call. And this is the same story. It's actually the same story on two fronts.

The boxing elitis the naysayers, the ones who think that they are a part of this sport that is just so much better than any form of combat sport, you can't even touch us, you don't know shit about boxing. That's a thing. You don't know shit about boxing is a thing. Because only the most intellectually stimulated smart, oh, you have to be like up here. You have to be up here. You have to be like so smart to understand boxing. You have to be up here. They will tell you that these crossover fights are bullshit. And yet the three most notable, crossover fights that we've seen over the past decade have been what? Connor McGregor fighting Floyd Mayweather, Tyson Fury fighting Francis and Ganu, and I'll get to the AJ fight in a moment, and Rico Verhoeven versus Alexander Usik. And what's the common theme in all of those? In every single one of those, the debutante, where do he come from? The amateur, he doesn't belong, actually does pretty well. Connor was doing well at the beginning. Now, revisionist history, they'll say he was being carried, whatever. He still won those rounds. He got stopped in the 10. Francis, I think, won.

and I think RICO should have won, or at the very least, gone into the 12th and should have been up at that point. And so the element of the unknown, the surprise factor, tends to play into the hands of the debutante. Now what happens is Francis goes back to the well. They've got tape on him. They know to beat him. Good team, good coach, prepares properly. He gets knocked out. And so there's a lesson there for RICO.

Number one, you're not going to get a fair shake. And number two, take the freaking fame, take the power, take the prestige, take the uncrowned champ status that you've now achieved, and head on to something else. Because the next time around, I don't think it's going to go like that. And the next time around, you're still not going to get a fair shake. That's just the way it is. I'm not trying to suggest that there's, you know, some higher power being paid up. It's just like this self-fulfilling prophecy.

He can't possibly be winning. He can't possibly be doing this against the pound for pound best. He now is the people's champion. I saw, you know, MVP saying, Francis, come on over, let's do it on Netflix. He got offered more. And Rico's such a good guy that he turned that down to do this fight against Usik

because he gave his word to Turkey. It was only a one-fight deal. And so he should take everything that he just gained. He has now become so much more famous and popular in North America as a result of this robbery. That's the silver lining. Take that, head for the hills, and get paid now. And get paid.

I bet the UFC's going to come calling. I bet MVP's going to come calling. Everyone should come calling. If I were him, I know he said on Saturday, run it back. I would say forget that. I won that fight. Forget that. Let me go get actually paid now and do things my way and hopefully get a fair shake.

Now, I've weighed in on this a lot. Rick, you've been watching Rico for a very long time. To see him do that against Usek. And again, it didn't feel like Francis because he was like, I don't want to say he's like Our Little Secret because of course he's a massive, massive star, but it felt like no one appreciated who he was and how

could he was. And so to see him actually rise to the occasion, like, I was proud of the guy. I was like, shit, man, Rico's freaking doing it. Absolutely. It was extremely admirable. I had similar feelings to Francis, which was, I did not see this coming. Transparently, like once you eliminate,

Rico is a very, very strong kicker. RICO is kicking is a massive part of Rico's arsenal when it comes to kickboxing. So when you give me a fight where you're eliminating a massive part of his arsenal to go in there and only box, I did not like his chances in this fight against Alexander Usik, who is one of the greatest fighters of our generation, you know, the reigning heavyweight champion, in my mind undisputed, but regardless, one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world. I was shocked.

I was impressed. I thought Rico had a fantastic game plan. I thought he came in looking extremely sharp. I thought Ussick looked flat. I thought Usoc, it looked like Usoc did not take this fight seriously. And Rico was there to capitalize on it and take advantage of every single opportunity that he was given. Very impressive stuff. In a different way than Francis, I was shocked and impressed.

How did you have it going into that moment? I don't remember round by round, but I had him ahead by two or three. rounds at least. And what do you think? I thought the people that were like he's blanking Usik were a little bit off. No. It was reported on...

They only gave, you know, on the broadcast, I think Coppinger only gave him like one round or something in the early going. I think he had a 9-1 going. Yeah, I didn't think it was that far a disparity, but I had him ahead by a good two to three rounds, for sure. You've seen him fight for a while.

How would you compare the way he fought as a boxer? Oh, completely different. Again, you're taking out kicks are such a a crucial part of kickboxing. There's a big difference and there's a reason why boxing and kickboxing are not even remotely similar. And it is that element of kicks. He is not shy

with them. uses them as range finders, uses them to keep, uses them for finishes. He's a very, very strong kicker. And as you can see by the way his frame is built and the strength of his legs, it's a dangerous weapon. So to limit him, I thought this was going to be disastrous. I thought it was

going to be horrible. He came in with a very good game plan. He caught Usik on the back foot so many, many times. And Usik just did not look prepared to fight somebody as good as Rico Verhoven. As far as like overall technical prowess as a combat sports athlete, Rico is the cream of the crop. Top of the, as you said, I would, I think there will be many who have pushed back that he's the greatest heavyweight ever.

But I think nobody in their right mind could not acknowledge that for our generation, for this current era, he has been peerless. He is a cut above everybody else when it comes to the kickboxing world. And so it was tremendous to see. But if you know how good an athlete he is, maybe that's not as shocking. But the world didn't really. And he was exposed to them.

Shout out to Jason Statham for throwing a hell Mary out there and getting it done and producing one of the better fights we've seen in a while. Shout out to us, man. We did this. I'm sorry, we did this. Okay. My bad. My bad.

Do you not remember that? Do you not remember after Francis fought Henna for Hedda? And we said, Francis versus Rico, that's the fight. That started all. of this. You don't know this. I remember this. Are you off that day? No, but then... But then, that took our idea, and he went to the boss.

But yo, I'm giving us, all of us. The collective barrier at Gisi, what do you think? Yeah, I was in agreement with y'all. I was shocked by Rico's performance. I didn't give him that much of a chance going into it just by taking away the kicks. You're taking away half of his weapons against a pound-for-pound guy, one of the greatest heavy weights of this generation. I really didn't give him much of a chance.

I had him up 6'4. going into that 11th round. I thought it was probably going to be a 10-8 with the knockdowns at the end of round 11, so it probably would have been a 12th round to decide everything. I thought he performed at a level that I never could have expected him to against Alexander Usik. The stoppage was egregious. It was ridiculous. He stepped in after the bell. RICO wasn't even out in the first place, and to not give him a chance to see through that 12th round, to see through where the scorecards were going to be at after those 12 rounds is ridiculous. It's, it's, It's ridiculous.

He did not get a fair shake at that. And whether he goes for a rematch or a massive payday elsewhere, he's well deserving of both. It's a wild thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Ultimately, it feels like they're so dismissed these guys who dare to cross over. When in reality, like, could you imagine if that was Usik versus Rico in kickboxing? Yeah, he'd get dismantled.

Or Tyson versus Francis in MMA. You know what I mean? Yeah. And yet for some reason, it's always. the guy going over to boxing who gets dismissed, and yet they never want to consider the opposite. And if they did consider the opposite, it would go way worse than we ever see them when they cross over to this side of the fence. I will say at the highest level, right? There are middle levels where kickboxers, MMA fighters are trying their hand at boxing,

and it does not go well, right? We're talking about the cream of the crop. Yeah, it has to be the cream of the crop because I mentioned the three, yeah. Yeah, if you go down, it is a very hard sport to master boxing and I understand why there is certainly some snobbish behavior and some elitism when it comes to that but there's also a reality

that these guys are extremely good Alexander Usik is generationally good like there's no doubt and he should have handled Rico Verhoven do you think he overlooked him? Yeah 100% you think he didn't train he looked horrible

he did yeah it doesn't matter who was in there with him he looked horrible he looked not good despite the fact that he turned it up in the later rounds, I mean, thank God he did. Otherwise, you know, Rico was just going to continue to pour it on him. But it was not a good performance by Ussick,

regardless of who the opponent was that was standing across from him. I actually think that's why I lean towards Rico going elsewhere rather than a rematch because I think Usik would go incredibly hard on the next one and not underestimate him in any way, shape, or form. I agree with that. And I kind of feel like, look, who knows? I mean, they're going to throw a bunch of money at him, his stock is higher now.

I'm just thinking about it from like a a chest not checkers perspective. Use this and just kind of take the money and run, so to speak, but you know, he's a gamer man. Do we think he can get a bigger fight? I think he could get paid more money to fight on Netflix. Then you have to. That's the move to make.

The same way Francis and Ghana, parlayed. Is that a Netflix main event after this? Yes. Yes, it is. I agree. After this especially. Especially considering, I mean, you know, I mentioned Jason Thatham. You get him involved in it. You have a platform that's an entertainment platform. Like, I feel like there's, this is very corporate, but synergy.

Like, this is a synergistic fight. It makes a lot of sense. It crosses over to a lot of different things, including the world of Hollywood. I think you leverage it to go as far as you can. And the same way that Francis leveraged the Tyson Fury fight into an Anthony Joshua fight and a mass, another massive payday. You have to just leverage this as best you can. I imagine he can get something bigger outside of.

of a Usik rematch from a money perspective. It's been so many years now, were we demanding a rematch after Inganu Fury? I think people wanted it. Yeah, I wanted it. I think both sides wanted it too. I think we all kind of came to the conclusion that it wasn't going to happen relatively quickly

that Fury was like, I'm out of here. What about that scene afterwards where the little guy was saying that Kabil's next and then Turkey comes in? He's like, I want to see the rematch. Was that not the funniest thing ever? It was a bit awkward. It was a little bit weird. Yo, what was that?

Also, like, interviewing people with the microphone. That was, that was amazing. They were, like, arguing about what's next for the guy, and he's standing right there. It was bizarre. It was bizarre. Rika was so classy. As always. As a guy ever been. No, he has always been. You know, I've been around him for a bit when I worked at Glory.

The dude has always handled himself extremely professionally. That's kind of been the knock against him, right? He's too buttoned up. He's too classy. He's too professional. his biggest rival during his era was Botter Hari. The opposite. It was because he was the opposite.

He's the loose cannon, you know, can't control him type of guy. RICO was always this. And so to see it at this level when you are this close to greatness against Ussick and to have it snatched in the way that it was, you know, who knows how that, look, I don't really care how round 12 goes. I don't. Like, if you're telling me Usoc knocks him out, I'm fine with that. It was still a fantastic performance by Rico.

I have to see it, though. You can't take it from him in that way. And for him to handle it the way he did after that, again, impressive. Just continue to impress. Do you believe that the ref didn't hear the bell? I don't know. I mean, it's not like we were in a 50,000... It's a bad stoppage if he heard it or didn't hear it.

Horrible stoppage. If he heard it, it's one of the worst stoppages I've ever seen. I mean, he steps in two seconds after the bell went off. I see this message here from Rico, leave emotions out of it. read the cards, one second left, heading into the 12th and final round. Onwards and upwards, respect to Usik. It was an honor to share the ring with you.

Let's run it back, Turkey. So I guess he does want the rematch. And we're going to talk to Mr. Rico Verhoeven in about 23 minutes time. So we'll get his thoughts on that. Hamza Shiraz, who had an incredible win as well. Like I said, Jack Catterall, Frank Sanchez, Richard Torres was a shocker as well, the knockout. We do have some breaking news, though. I don't want to get to us.

We'll talk a lot about this fight throughout the show. The PFL announcing, New York's on fire, huh? The New York sports scene is on fire. PFL announcing that on Friday, July 31st, they are coming to the UBS arena, Long Island. Card headline by Usbandar Magamatov versus Archie Colgan and Dakota Ditcheva versus Denise Keelholz. Now, they're still not doing a title fight for Old Dakota, huh? What's up with that?

any other fights announced Usban 21 and O'HRchie 13 and O actually though why would you not make her be fighting for a title Who is the champ? Still Liz Carmouche? Is it? No, she's not She was the Bellator champ

Or she was the tournament champ You remember I asked John Martin They don't have a champ But they're like, oh you know I don't know I don't understand it By the way, oh wait Are there other fights announced No there aren't

So that's July 31st. It'll air on ESPN, but it's at the UBS arena. You guys have been there. I've never been there. Yeah, great arena. A couple times. I'll be there again on July 31st to watch Usman and Dakota. Well, they tell us, I looked into this,

Usman has still not signed a new deal. And it's TBD on whether or not he will sign a new deal. So it could potentially be walking out with a title if he wins it. This is his last fight. Oh, that's fascinating drama. This is CM Punk John Cena. This is Francis Ngano Suril Gan. Yeah.

Crazy, right? Should they re-sign him? Yeah, of course. What if he's asking for top dollar and Islam has left the 55 division? You don't got anybody else, man. Yeah. You need him desperately.

Him and Paul Hughes were the biggest thing that your promotion had for the longest. Like, you need to get him back. I kind of like the fact that he's fighting in New York. A lot of Russians. live in Brooklyn. Do they live in Long Island too? Or on Long Island?

Maybe more... It's on, on, on. Maybe more tour queens, but even still. Let me check the New York Post real quick. Yeah, see if they got info on that. Let's just see this. Do you want to say anything about your Cavs? I didn't really give you an opportunity, Rick. Analytically, they did very well.

That's all I got to say. Who gives a shit? I think you, I really were like, it was a great run, Rick. And I saw a stat that they were statistics. the worst Eastern Conference Finals team ever. 10 and 8 is as bad as you can possibly do while making the conference

finals. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it 10? Was it 10? No, I think it was actually 8 and 10. 8 and 10. I'm sorry. They finished 8 and 10, which is as bad as you can possibly do while making the conference finals. And then James Hardin last night is like, yeah, I thought we were the better team.

That is, yeah, that's the crazy thing. And then the coach, Kenny Atkinson is like, analytically, we should be up to 1. Fuck, man. You say that after game one, maybe game two you're like, I still know we're the better team, we're going back to Cleveland. After a sweep, you don't have an argument. You just say, peace and love.

Yeah, great season. To Donovan's credit, he didn't say any of that nonsense. New York boy, deep down, just like our very own New York, Rick. I think Donovan Mitchell's actually... Taking pictures with the Knicks fans before the game. That's what you want to see as a Kaz fan. I think he's actually happy for us. I think he's happy for you. He's happy for you. I think he's happy for you.

One, two, three, Cancun for sure. Hell yeah. Well, plenty of more Knicks talk to throughout the next couple of weeks. Have no fear. Have no fear. Back into the program, we're going to be joined by Ben Shalom, the founder and the headman over at Boxer.

They have a show on the BBC this weekend. Prior to that, we're going to be joined by Peter Fury, head coach for one, RICO Verhoeven. Prior to that, we're going to be joined by RICO Verhoeven himself. But let us now talk to the man who wanted the co-main event. What a phenomenal knockout in the second round. He won the vacant WBO super middleweight title, improving his record now to 20, 30 and 1 with 19 knockouts. He is the pride of both Pakistan and England.

He is the quiet storm. Hamza Shiraz, who is kind enough to join us right here and now on the program. There he is. Hello, Hamza. How are you, my friend? How's you going, Aaron Mugur, bro. Great to have you back on the program. Thank you very much for joining us. Appreciate it.

How was the experience over there? I was just saying earlier, I thought of all the events that Turkey and the ring have put on, this was the best visually. This was the one that we didn't know how it was going to look, and it exceeded expectations. You fought in that location. What was it like? Yeah, it was crazy, bro.

I can only be thankful to His Excellency for giving me the opportunity to, you know, win my first world title in front of such a great backdrop, such great history. And it was a pinched myself moment, man. I remember coming up chain rooms. And the first thing you see is the pyramids right in front of you. Yeah, pretty surreal.

Got the job done. Happy days. world champion. Was there any point, I don't know, maybe throughout the week or even on the night, where you're like kind of in awe of where you are, where you are fighting and you kind of have to snap out of it because there's a job at hand? Yeah, that's what I said. About three minutes before my ring walk, they put you in this little waiting area and all you got in front of you is the pyramids. And then I was kept kind of like drifting away and kept back to the snap back into it, I think this thing, get back in the zone. You're on your, you're on your ringwalk soon.

So yeah, it was pretty surreal, man. the atmosphere, again, on television, it's kind of hard to tell, like, is there a buzz? Is there any type of atmosphere? I was at the Times Square event. Unfortunately, there wasn't an atmosphere. It was very quiet. How would you describe the atmosphere where you were fighting? It was good. I wouldn't say it was the loudest or the biggest, but it was enough to kind of get you going. It was enough to get you in the zone. And yeah, it was nice to win my first title there because I had a few fans. I could I could say I had about 2,000 of fans there. Wow.

It was a great environment to be and had a lot of people come from Dubai as well. So it was just around the corner for them. And there's part of the team there after the win. So to now win at 27 years of age, your first world title, what does this moment mean for you? It means everything, man. It means everything. I won it when I was 26 years old. I turned 27 yesterday.

Oh, my God. Congratulations. Happy birthday. Thank you, bro. And it's a full circle moment, do I mean, from where I come from, from where I grew up, from even when I turned pro. Never did I think I'd win a world title. In interviews, I always used to say it.

But only up until recent, the dream was within touching distance. And I've been working just hard, man, working very hard, very smart under Andy Lee. And yeah, here we are, man. Can you describe what's been the secret sauce with Andy? I had him as my trainer of the year last year. I love the team that he has the stable. I like that it's not too big and what he's done for the likes of you

and Ben Whitaker and obviously Joseph Parker, Patty Donovan. Why has it been so special? Why has the link up works so well for you? Because he's a teacher. It's as simple as that because he's a teacher, he's been there, seen it, done it, and he's got the T-shirt, as I say.

And he understands his fighters. He understands every fighter's different. Not every fighter thinks the same or fights the same. but his recipe and what he does works for all the fighters. So it's just about listening to him really, and I've got a good, good connection with him. I've never really had a connection of any of my previous coaches or trainers.

And yeah, man, he's a great guy and he's an even greater teacher. By the way, the last time we saw you was back in July here in New York, that great event, Edgar Berlanga, the Louis Armstrong Stadium. Why did it take so long for you to come back, almost a year?

Yeah, it's crazy, bro. bit of bad luck man it was I had the first fight with and Billy lined up and then all the fight got cancelled and then I was meant to fight a Checo for the WBO and then he pulled out last minute negotiations so it was just down to a bit of bad luck man but in the end we got there you had I think our internet stalled there can you hear me yeah I can Sorry, bro. Okay, no, all good. You had such great momentum after that win over Berlanga.

Were you getting frustrated? Were you getting antsy? Because you obviously want to try to build on that. And here you are on the outside looking in while other fighters are getting opportunities. Yeah, it was hard, man. You'd think after a win like that, the opportunities would be endless. Do you know what I mean? But that wasn't the case.

It was just, like I said, down to a little bit of bad luck. But at the same time, I'm a firm believer in God, and I believe it was God's stand. You mentioned Christian Mbili We now know that he'll be fighting Canelo Alvarez in September And obviously you've been linked to Canello in the past And you just mentioned you were linked to Mbili How do you think he does against Canello? A bit of a bold statement

But I believe Canello stops him within six to eight rounds I believe styles make fights And I believe he's just all right for Canelo Wow, okay Did you see him out there? Did you have any interactions with him? I saw him once we had a photo shoot together and it was nothing but respect

I've said it before he's one of my boxing heroes so you know to even be in the same sentence as him is a achievement itself but if I do get the opportunity to fight him just know I'll be making the most out of it so is that the hope right now is the hope Canella wins

and you fight him next is there a chance of that there's a big chance of it I wouldn't say it's my next fight because I'd like to stay active I'd like to stay busy. I don't want to make that same mistake of just staying idle and nothing happening. So listen, as long as I keep doing my thing, I'm sure that's a fight that will happen in the future.

Yeah, because you had your last fight in July. This fight only lasted two rounds. So I would imagine there's a part of you while you're still training and putting in the rounds with sparring and whatnot. There's probably a part of you that wants to get a little bit more ring time as well, right? 100%. Listen, all the great fighters back in day, what they used to do, they used to stay busy, they used to fight.

And any opportunity I'll get now, listen, I've got the belt, so I'm going to be a target as well. You know, people out there wanting to fight me. So let's have it, man, bring on all of them. So if it was up to you, when would you return and against two? Listen, as soon as possible, against anyone. You don't have a preference? No, I honestly don't. I honestly don't.

I'd fight whoever, whenever, wherever, however, however, however, however. you name it. I would imagine Canello is at the very top of the list, but obviously, like you said, he's book. He would be the number one, right? He's the dream fight right now. Yeah, of course. Of course. And he's, I still believe, the top dog in the division,

now that Crawford's retired. So to get an opportunity to prove that I believe I am, would be an honor. I saw you get a call from Declan Rice. Are you an Arsenal guy? Yeah, I told you last time when an Arsenal guy. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I try to erase these things from my mind. What was that like?

Great month has been a great month. It has been a great month and a big weekend coming up. What was the like getting a call from Declan? Do you know what? It was like 20 minutes before I was getting my hands wrapped and I was zoning in. Then I got a call from him and it was a bit like he's always been supporting me. So it was good man and I was just telling him like congratulations that he was saying just zoning and crack on. Man of the people he is.

I saw him at 5 o'clock in the morning just like walking around with the fans there. That was incredible. Yeah, one of the most humble, humble sportsmen, I think I've ever met in my career, man. So where were you when they clinched it? Were you in Egypt? I was in Egypt, yep. I was in Egypt. Where was I was, where was I?

I was having dinner. I remember having dinner at the hotel. I thought it'd go down to the last game. Okay. But it didn't. They set the tone. They done their job. I done mine.

And now hopefully win the Champions League. Where are you going to be watching on Saturday? I'll probably be back in Dubai I'll be back in Dubai. And if I'm not in Dubai, then I'll be watching there live in Budapest. Okay. Wait. Oh, you're thinking about going. Yeah, potentially, man. Potentially. Oh, that would be some scene. How do you like their chances?

Listen, I feel like, listen to win championships, you've got to have luck on your side and you've got to have a performing team. I believe Arsenal have both, and I believe we're going to get the 2-0 victory. Okay, I love it. I love the confidence. That's tremendous. And you know a thing or two about rising to the occasion. I believe your last 17 victories have come via stoppage, right?

So you're on some kind of role. Do you think you're now going to be talked about, you know, among, you know, the top, you know, boxing in the UK is on fire. Is it time that people start talking about you as one of the big draws about, you know, one of the big names? Do you feel like that time is now? Yeah, I believe so. I believe so, Ariel. And if not, I'll keep proving them, keep proving them wrong or right, whoever believes in me, whoever doesn't. I'll just keep doing my thing. Got one of the belts now. Keep picking up the belts and soon become undisputed and unified. Do you have any sort of theory as to why it maybe is taking a little bit longer for people to get on the bandwagon? I don't really. I'll be honest with, maybe because I didn't have kind of the biggest start in my pro career. or the most media coverage. But I'm a firm believer in staying focused and working hard

and just, you know, the cliche saying of let your success make the noise. And this particular fight on Saturday against Adam Belgich, did you expect it to be a quick one? I predicted four rounds. Oh, wow. After the first round, I went back in the corner, and Andy just more or less said, just take him out of it. And it was about doing it and doing it in true Crohn's fashion.

Yeah, it was amazing. I call them Adam, Alan Belgitch, who was, who was undefeated going into this bout. So, you know, no cakewalk and no sort of layup, as we say here in America. I know you were probably focused on the win itself, but did you happen to catch the main event? Listen, I caught up with it the next day, like a few of the highlights and whatnot. A lot of questions. Yeah. A lot of questions. but my theory on the fight is that

Ushik it was too hard to take RICO seriously and if I was in Uso's position I would have done the same thing you've been fighting your whole career at a level where your opponents are putting that kind of extra fire in your belly making you run the extra miles

making you do the you get a pick and fire against hard to switch on but Listen, nonetheless, he got the win. Controversial, as everyone's seen. But I think if it went in the last run, I still think he would have got the stoppage anyway.

So you think it was a case of him sort of overlooking Rico? Because he was bigger, but I was wondering if maybe he was bigger because Rico's a bigger guy, and so he wanted to have more weight on him. Now, I think he was overlooked at him, but I don't blame him. Do you know what I mean? I don't blame him. Like I said, I would have done the same thing.

And it's similar to Fury and Ingan, it's the same kind of element. Do you know what I mean? And yeah, I don't blame him, man. What do you think of the stoppage, though? Do you think it was late? The referee said he didn't hear it. So I don't know. It's kind of a lose-lose situation because if he let the fight go

and he got brutally knocked out in the 12th front, the blame would have gone on the rest. And now he stopped it too early. He's getting the blame as well. So it's a lose-lose for the ref, but I think in the 12th it would have been the same outcome. In terms of the way Rico fought, were you impressed based on what you saw? It was very, it was different, wasn't it?

Yeah. Very, very, it was very different. And it was interesting. It just goes to show that if you've got a good cornerman in Peter Fury and you execute a game plan and you listen to it, you can make it hard for one of the best heavyweights out there. So do you think if they run a back and Ussick takes him seriously? Do you think it's a vastly different fight, dramatically different? The thing is Usook is your best chance to beat him is the first time you fight him.

The second time you fight him, good luck. You what I mean? Good luck. He's so good in rematches, you're right. And I also feel like there's a lesson to be learned from the Francis A.J. fight that when you're sort of unknown to the boxing public and your opponent and his team, you can catch him. The next time out, if there's tape on you, they'll catch you. Exactly that. And it's the whole element of surprise, right?

Once that's gone, you haven't really, as a kind of kickboxer or another combat sport fighter, you haven't really got the advantage anymore. Yeah. By the way, how's the modeling career going? I saw you on GQ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. That was my second shoot with him, that was.

And it's going well, man. It's the opportunities I get. I just try to crack on with him and just try to be a bit of a pretty boy outside of camp. You like that? You like having like the sort of two lives, tough guy, pretty guy? It's kind of a juxtaposition, isn't it? That's what it is. It is a juxtaposition, but it's good because you're not painted with that cliche boxer brush. You know what I mean? So it's a good avenue to go down. I do wonder if people, you know, some of your detractors look past you or don't give you the credit. They say, oh, he's just a pretty boy. He cares too much. He's not a tough, rugged fighter. It's an advantage. And nowadays, that works.

It gets you probably more money outside the ring than you'd get inside of the ring. So I'm not complaining area. Do you feel like that's the case? Do you feel like you're getting opportunities because you're putting yourself out there like this? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think once you expose yourself to kind of that side of things, the opportunities are endless. And the only thing is, is I will never prioritize that over my boxing.

My boxing always comes first. The training always comes first. So if I've got free time and extra time and opportunity arises, then I'll take it. If not, then boxing's number one. So perfect world, you get another fight in soon. Would you like three this year? I'd love three this year. I'd love that.

That would be idle for me. And yeah, man, it will keep that momentum going. Well, you're must-see TV, Hamza. It's amazing to see you do your thing. Congratulations on the win. Well done. Another knockout in the books for you. And I hope that you get one of these big fights that you're looking for because you certainly

deserve it. Thank you. Thank you everyone. I appreciate it. Take care. There he is. Hamza Shiras, kind enough to join us, big Arsenal supporter. Yes, he did in fact tell us this last year when he was here in studio getting ready for the Edgar Berlanga fight. That was at Louis Armstrong, which is where AEW happened this past Sunday. What a show that was, right? I'm going to talk to the guys about their AEW experience back into the program. They were there in attendance, double or nothing. Some people calling it the best AEW pay-per-view of all time. MJF, by the way, won the belt back. He defeated Darby Allen. But what about Hamza Chiras? Now, 23-0-1, his last 17 victories have come via stoppage, did have that controversial draw

against Carlos Adamas that was in February of 2025. Alan Begich was 29-0-1 coming into this fight. So his first career defeat, and he displayed. And he disposed of him in just, well, a round and change in the second round. So a very impressive win for the man they call Quiet Storm, who is now the WBO super middleweight champion. Well done to him. Of course, the biggest story of this past weekend was what transpired in the main event. I've weighed in this past weekend in real time. I've weighed in on this program. And it is such a massive, massive, a massive honor for us to be joined by the man who I now consider the uncrowned king of kickboxing and the uncrowned king of boxing because what he did on Saturday shocked the vast majority

of the boxing world. It did not shock those who have been watching him for quite some time doing his thing over in glory, the undefeated run, the championships, the one-night tournaments, all that and more. We've had him on the show countless times. And so to see the lack of respect that he received from the moment this fight was announced, up until the walkout and even post-walkout. And the fight itself, we talked about the controversy. Some might say typical boxing. But the way in which he dealt with it, the class, not surprising, but amazing to see with his heart ripped out that he handled it with grace, with class, with maturity. It was a beautiful thing.

And so what a great pleasure. What a great honor it is to be joined by the one and only Riko Verhoeven, the person. pride of the Netherlands, kind enough to join us right here and now. But let me, let me take it. Let me stand up. I salute you. Rico, I salute you, my man, because in the moment this fight was announced, you were disrespected, you were dismissed, you were just kind of shoot away.

The boxing elite said this guy doesn't even, what is, who is this guy? They call, I was watching that broadcast, Rico, and I was getting offended on behalf of you, amateur, debutante, the audacity. of him to think he could go in there with Usik, and you went in there, my man, and it was systematic, round after round. And I was watching, like, my heart was swelling for you because I was like, he's doing it.

He is doing it. He is going to do it. And then it was ripped out. And so can I ask you right here now a couple of days removed? How are you feeling? How are you digesting this all? Oh, to be honest, man, I'm on cloud nine. I'm excited.

I'm thankful. We wrote history. We did something, like you just said, nobody expected. And, but just to, to share a quick light on that. Please. Like, why I'm not, like, angry on those opinions. It's because all those opinions were formed on their knowledge of who RICO is.

So they just saw a part of the information they had, for me, as a boxer at the one boxing match and the kickboxing part. And if I would fight, if I would have fought like I'm a kickboxer, I would have got my ass beat exactly what they expected. But of course, that was not what we planned to do. But with that little information, it shows that people jump on that information and make their conclusions. And I just hope that this is such a big lesson for for everybody that don't draw your conclusions too quick don't judge a book by its cover till you have like all the information because people didn't see me for six months training and transitioning into boxing and like i said before i've been training with peter fury for over 15 years

so yeah you know it's um it didn't come from one day on the other for sure and that's great perspective But can I ask you pause there when you said how you're feeling? I wasn't sure if you were going to say cloud nine or heartbroken because you have every right to feel heartbroken and cheated. And so why do you feel like you're on cloud nine? Why are you so happy after what appeared to be a wrong being bestowed upon you? Because I got the opportunity to fight arguably maybe the best that has ever done it. And I was winning. I was out boxing one of the best boxers ever.

So how cool is that? That made me feel so next level. And that's just, like I said, that's just not me who I am, Ariel. Of course, at that moment after that fight, I was hurt. I was disappointed. I was sad. But then looking back at it and getting all the love from all across over the world, from what happened and how it happened

it's just like wow wow and like I said it's just like I can be just so thankful that I got this opportunity that Jason put my name out there that his excellency Turkey Alashike made this happen together with his team

Dr. Rakan etc that they made this happen at this epic location just like look at it as a glass half full instead of half empty. And of course, it's like an unfair situation and how everything went.

But yeah, that's why we appealed the whole thing. But for the rest, like I said, I'm super thankful. Okay, so obviously I have a million questions. I'm curious, Rico. Let's go. Thank you. And thank you so much for coming on. We really do appreciate it.

I'm curious, you fought on the biggest of stages in front of tens of thousands of people with much at stake, but you were sort of reverted back to a rookie on Saturday, what were you feeling like in the changing room? What were you feeling like knowing that you were about to do this thing that everyone was counting you out in this sport that you're not as well versed in? How are you feeling?

Were you more nervous? What was going on internally? I had the exact same nerves as always. Wow. Because for me, to be honest, I love Usik. He's like somebody I admire as an athlete, as a boxer. so everything that he does I resonate with. I love that.

But he's great at what he does but to me he's a man with two arms and two legs and he can do anything better or different or whatever that I can. Because I've also, I trained super hard for this. So I was super confident in the game plan that we had. And the only thing I had to do is I had to show that. And that's that.

because there was no pressure on me because everybody expected me to fail. Was there any point perhaps even earlier in the fight, first few rounds, where you're thinking to yourself, this is going a lot better than I thought? Like, are you talking to you? Like, wow. How is this playing out? Exactly what I thought. I was like, am I out jabbing the best boxer in the world?

What the hell is going on here? I was like tapping him with his way, his lead arm. I was like, pop, pop, pop, jabbing him in the face. I was like, damn, is this happening? I love it. I love it. I was excited. I was excited.

My team and my corner was like, y'all, Rico, we're doing great, man. Let's keep, keep doing it. Much has been made about, you know, the extra weight and how he looked. We just had Hamza Shiraz on who won in the co-main event say that he thought that Ussica kind of took you lightly, and that was an indication of that. What is your response to that? Do you think that his physique, do you think that the way in which he looked and fought was an indication that he took you lightly?

I don't know. He said he didn't. He said he trained really hard. Maybe he came in a little heavier because he thought I was heavier. I don't know. I can tell or judge anything on what he was expecting. But it is what it is. So I just, only thing I can talk about is what I did and what I put into it and how focused I was to get this win.

One thing that I was so curious about and what made this fight so much fun is that we've only for the most part seeing you in kickboxing matches. And so I was curious what Rico Verhoeven the boxer would look like, excuse me. And your stance, the way you were kind of hunched over like that, it was a different kind of look. You don't have kicks to your advantage. We're curious the way you're going to use your reach, your foot. movement, all that stuff is totally different when you're fighting as a kickboxer boxer. And so can you give us some insight into that transition, as you called it, that transformation? How difficult was it to kind of shed some old habits that you're accustomed to as a kickboxer

and to, you know, become this boxer that we saw on Saturday? Yeah, so accidentally, I think I had kicked like two or three sparring. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, okay, wow, wow, I believe you. I'm a professional, Ariel, come on. Okay, okay, I don't know. you know, old habit. No, like I said, I've been boxing like for so long already, so I'm used to that.

No, but the transition was, yeah, it was hard. Was it really hard. Why was it hard? Because like, just think about like the habits we have as human beings, the things you do, the things that you're used to, things that we say that are like certain habits. just and people for example start telling you like stop that okay and stop that and stop that change it to change it to that oh and every time you do it like oh fuck i'm doing it again oh fuck i'm doing it again so that those things are yeah were incredibly hard because like i said i've been

kickboxing since i was six years old so and i've like dominated the kickboxing sport for so long and i was boxing to kickbox and now i was boxing a learning boxing to box. So that was a huge difference on stands, on movement, on the hands or whatever, the movement. Yeah, it was quite something. Can I ask specifically what was the toughest thing to correct? What was the thing that you kept messing up on that they would call you out on?

I think also the moment I got the uppercut being too square on. I think that was the... the main thing and as we as we saw like later in the rounds i made that mistake again and i got hit so i think that that was the the hardest thing to to change because like for the other 10 rounds i was doing like pretty good on side moving around from left to right orthodox softball so that that worked amazingly and then just one moment uh i i was too square on boom i got the I'm like, damn, okay. We get back up and we continue,

but then I didn't get the opportunity to finish when I started. But for the rest, I was like, yeah, I think it was a pretty solid performance. And I'll ask you about that finish in a second. I'm just sort of building up to it. I'm curious, was there anything that surprised you about Usik, about his tactics, about the way in which he fought? Not really, to be honest, not really, because I knew he was going to be hard to catch.

And I knew he was going to be like a slippery and moving from left to right. And it was hard to get him like to hit him like with a solid punch and hit him right away. So that's why there were like second and third phase attacks because he is so fast and he is so smart with his movements. And nobody's done it before. They just tried to that one, that first phase.

oh, it didn't work, okay, we leave it. And again, first phase, and okay, it didn't work, we leave it. So that's why we start first phase, second phase, third phase. So just keep continuing and keep putting on the pressure and keep throwing light punches. So I was, I think, for how I felt like I was outworking, one of the best boxers that ever did it. How did the cardio feel?

Because obviously we usually see you in five-round fights. This is 12, 3-minute rounds. it's a different type of, you know, how do you get the cardio look? I mean, looking and feel, I don't know how you felt internally. There were some people who afterwards say, oh, he was slowing down.

I didn't see that. I wanted to hear it from you. I was, I was slowing down a bit at the end. But still, if you look at it, I was keeping like a really good pace for like 10 and 11 rounds. So it was, now I was excited. I was feeling good.

Every time I come back through it, how are you feeling? I'm feeling good, let's go. And maybe if we like, because I'm always, and me and my team, we're our own biggest critic. If we look back at it, we can say like, hmm, maybe we could have taken like a round off somewhere in between, maybe two rounds, just moving around and taking a look and catch your breath for a little bit. But like I said, we were on a roll. We were feeling so good. Yeah, we were just like surprised by.

by some things that for example after there was like open scorecards and after four we got we got scorecards we like hey we're even okay I felt like I was at least like three to one but okay we're even that that's fine then we get the scorecards again and after after another four rounds so after round eight and still we were even you're like hmm this, I don't know, this starts to feel like, I don't know, fishy because I feel like I'm winning these rounds. I'm working more. I'm getting hit less and I'm hitting and I'm touching him more than he's hitting me. So maybe I have to like push it a little bit more. So yeah, it's, it's getting looked at with like a protective or through a protective boxing lens. So and that maybe

because I'm an outsider, I have to put in that extra work to be even more convincing. But like we saw in the in the commentating stats, I was like at round 10 it was like 8 to 2 instead of

like going up equal. Did you know and these are the official scorecards in the end, but I'm curious did you know that there would be open scoring? Did they tell you this beforehand? Yes, sir. And so, We don't often see that.

I know WBC has kind of has dabbled with this in the past. I didn't know this. I don't remember hearing the announcement, but do you have any idea how they came to the conclusion that this particular fight would have open scoring

and why this particular fight? I'm no clue. They just said it. They said that the rules many hands going to be open scoring. After every four rounds, you're going to get the score cards. But like, okay, perfect.

I love it. So you can change tactics within the fight. fight if you have to. But like strangely enough, we were like feeling within the fight. And from my corner, we were feeling like we were dominating. And luckily also on TV, they said the same thing. Like, hey, Rico's like literally dominating. We think like he got at least like eight rounds. He's eight rounds ahead, eight to two. And then we got the scorecards and then, yeah, it was different, different than we expected.

So that was, yeah, somewhat disappointing. So I've been a proponent of open scoring for quite some time. There's a lot of people who don't like it. Now that you've actually been a part of a fight with open scoring, do you think it helps or hurts the fighter? Like, had you not known where things stood, do you think you would have fought differently as a result? That's a good question.

Maybe. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. In what way? Yeah, maybe we would have had the thing like, hey, we're up, we're up eight rounds, at least, maybe seven, but somewhere between seven and eight rounds, we're up. So just boxing, just move around, touch him, don't take any risks, and that is what it is. But, yeah, still I was feeling like, hey, we're close, where I have to, like, as soon as, he touches me, I need to get those points back. So I was keep, I kept on pushing. That's, that's what I do. I want to, I was, I wasn't there to play around. I was there to take over. I was there to shock

the world. I was there to win that title as the first crossover fighter to ever do it that way. Have you rewatched the fight? 100%. So how did you have its score going into the 11th? Yeah, somewhere 8 to 2. Okay. I think I lost about two rounds or at least long, yeah. It was close, but I was like, I can see that. I can see that.

But certain rounds, when I look at the score because they were set. I lost them. I was like, but he didn't even touch me or maybe he touched me once or twice. And I hit him like four, five, six times. Like, how did I lose that? Like, I don't see it. But like I said, I'm not a judge. So it's hard to, yeah, to give that from my perspective.

It's just like my feeling and how I see it. But like I said, I'm just coming into boxing for me. This is all new. This whole world is new. And I'm just like enjoying the whole process. And to be honest, I appeal it. And actually, and then I understand your follow-up question. But what do you want with the appeal?

Actually, to be honest, all I'm actually looking for is an apology. like yo we go we're sorry this this should have went differently and that's it what else what else can I ask for you know so like I said I'm super thankful that I got the opportunity that the WBC sanctioned it

and I was there and I showcased that these crossover fights are definitely something that needs to happen more in the future. It started off, of course, with the Mayweather McGregor fight. We had the Nagano Fury fight.

We had the Jake Tyson fight. And now we had the Rico Usik fight. And I think if you look at it, it's like it brings so much eyeballs to combat sports in general. And the whole landscape just changes. and there's so many interests from different type of companies, from partnership, from brands, and I love it.

I love it. I just love to see everything that's going on right now, and I'm super thankful to be a part of that. When he dropped you, you just talked about squaring up, and that's what allowed him to perhaps catch you with the uppercut. How hurt were you? Honestly, do you think you could have continued?

Do you think if there was a minute left in the fight, you would have been okay? Meaning, sorry, a minute left in the round, not the end of the round. Of course. But then I would have probably took another route. I probably would have moved around and like, bob, bump, go boxing and go back just on the jab. But I was like, okay, he's going to start pushing. So if you look back at it, I got the uppercut.

Well, for the people that know my fights, I've been dropped multiple times in different type of fights, in championship fights. And what I do is I get back up and no matter how much time is left on the clock, I get back up and I end up winning. So that was the mindset because I got back up. They put the mouthpiece. My mouthpiece was out. So they changed. They put the mouthpiece back in. But I heard.

So I knew, oh, okay, that's good. There's only 10 seconds left. So let me keep my hands up and let me get to the 12 round. So and I knew he was gonna come like straight at me So he was coming I was like pop pop pop I gave him another like hook I believe it was a right hook and and but he was like I was like That's not smart let's just pop pop pop keep my hands up and and wait till the bell goes And he's just like well when is the bell gonna go when is the referee gonna stop this you know like those 10 seconds are taking long right now

And and then he jumped in I was like okay The round is over he's like no no it's over so What do you mean? It's over. No, no, no, no, it's over. But why? No, no, no. I stopped it.

I was like, what the heck is going on here? Here. So for me, it was a surprise. And afterwards, we heard that the bell already rang before he jumped in. So, yeah, I don't know. That's a great point, by the way, because we keep fixating on the referee. Mark Lysen stopping the fight very clearly after the bell. But the truth is what we should really be saying is that if there was two minutes left in the

round, that was a bad stoppage. It doesn't matter. A referee, in fairness to all referees, they should never take into account how much time is left. They need to stop the fight when they think a fight should be stopped. But there were two infractions in that moment. Number one, the round was over. It wasn't like there was one second left, as they said.

Not true. The round was clearly over. And number two, it was a bad stoppage no matter how many times you break it down by different angles, you should never have been stopped in that moment. You were, you were dropped, you got back up, you were fighting back, you were defending yourself, and that's what's so frustrating about it all. And so I saw a clip, Rico, of your coach, Peter Fury, who said that he spoke to Mark on the plane back home, and Mark said to him that he didn't hear the bell? Is that what you're hearing as well? I was wondering if he said anything to you in the aftermath.

No, no, no, no. He told that I didn't speak and didn't talk to him after the fight. Peter was with him on the plane and he had the discussion or the talk with him and that's what he said i didn't hear the hear the bell but yeah there are so many examples of championship fight for example the fight with uh with usik and fury uh or the fight with fury and wilder uh fury got dropped and he was having like a tea party with with jesus when he when he got dropped and what happened he got the time to recover he got back up and it was all fine so and i'm just keeping my hands up i'm responsive i'm i'm not like gone or whatever and they just like stop they wave it off no no no no no i'm like yeah i don't know i think i just to be honest i deserved uh i deserved and the fans that

deserved to see that 12th round 100% whatever whatever uh what the outcome would be yeah but then all the opinions come again yeah but you would have never survived five to 12 there is no what if you know so if I would have been a girl I would have been in that ring I would have been Rico to fight at an am so it's like there is no what if you know so stop the what ifs like let's just focus on the things that happened and how we judge that and how we talk about it and let's continue from that no go like what if this and what if that and what if whatever There's no what it is. It's absurd to hear people say it with such certainty as well,

because if we would have listened to their what if from the beginning, you never would have made the walk because they said you didn't even deserve to be breathing the same oxygen as this guy in the ring. And so that's an absurd take. Do you believe the referee when he says that? Do you believe he didn't hear it? Or do you think that he's just trying to defend himself? Like, what do you think actually happened there? I don't know.

It's not, to be honest, Ariel, it's not up to me. I'm disappointed, like I said, but I'm not bitter. I can't, like, judge any. but if somebody says that, yeah, we have to believe them right on that word or we have to put them on like a polygraph and put them on a negotiation. But whatever, somebody says it like they, he didn't hear it or whatever. Like, yeah, maybe he didn't. I don't know. But still, there is room and there is a possibility if he reviews himself that he can say like, yeah, you guys are right.

I made a mistake. And that's a fair point. That can happen. We are human. Everybody is human. We can. And there's always room for mistakes. But admit those mistakes. Apologize. And let's continue from there. That's all you can do. I'm not going to sit here and be angry at the whole world. And like, oh, yes, but I could have done this and I could have done that. Yeah, like I said, there is no what if. This is what happened. So let's talk about that. let's continue it from there and let's go for the rematch because I'm ready for that. I'm excited about the rematch. He's going to get even more eyeballs than it did this time.

Okay, so I'll ask you about that in a moment. I'm just curious seeing the scorecards and seeing that stoppage, is there any part of you that feels a little dirty in that you weren't fighting a fair fight? Do you feel like there was some force out there that was never going to allow you to win

because, as they say, you can't just walk in and beat the best pound for pound fight in the world. Does that make you feel a little bit uneasy because it seems like there were two forces against you here? No, like I said, I think it was viewed through a very boxing protective lens. And, you know, that is maybe something that we can talk about, like in general. And that's also one of the reasons, like I said, why we appealed it.

And all they can say is like, hey, we go, we apologize. guys, we should have done better. We made a mistake and that's all you can ask for, right? It's like, yeah, you can sit here, be angry and waste all your energy on that, but it's like it's not going to change anything. It's not going to change the outcome. It's not going to do anything. It's not going to make me feel better.

So, yeah, it is what it is, actually. And so you say you appealed it, so you appealed it to the WBC, like, what does that process look like and when do you find out if they'll do anything as a result of it yeah so we appealed it to the let me double check what this is called the middle east professional boxing commission so that's what we appeal at and so i don't know like i said that's that's all we did and they have to review it and they have to come back with how they see it so let's let's see what happens um and you just said and i saw you post it as well you want to rematch it if if i were to ask you your top choice in the in the aftermath of this is that a rematch is that what you would

like 100% I would love that but like I said it's not up to me like to be honest I've just been loving what uh his excellency turquilla shike is has been doing for combat sports in general he's like really putting it on a map and he's thinking outside of the box he's putting other fighters against each other and he's just like pushing the boundaries and pushing the limits on every angle and every possible way creating a boxing event in Madison Square guarding putting a boxing ring in front of the pyramids it's been insane and I think it's super next level so like I said I think sky is the limit for where where we can go from here but there's like now I said, there's so many interests from all kinds of ways and all kinds of possibilities

and all kinds of people that are approaching us with everything. So, but, like, of course, they gave me the opportunity first. So that's where we're looking at now. And, yeah, let's see what the future holds for us. Have they talked to you about what's next yet? Have they reached out to you yet? Yeah, of course. And what kind of sense?

What can you tell us about what they're thinking? because they did bring Kabayel into the ring and he obviously wants a shot at the belt as well and so what sense are you getting from them? No, so like it's still open. So we're still like in like premature talks. So it's just more like, like hey, how are you feeling? And we were so happy with you and you did amazing.

And nobody expected this. The whole world is talking about it. So thank you for that. And all like, and all I said is like, I told you so. I took me so so and especially like Jason is also like going through

through the roof he's been crazy he's been calling me almost every day like about how excited he was and I was super yeah like I said

excited he is about what he saw and what he already knew he's like I knew you were going to do this you proved everything to me and to the world because I knew you were going to

out yeah I'll class everybody So that's, yeah, that's been amazing. Do you feel, I have a sense for what you're going to say, but do you feel that your stock has now risen, that people are now viewing RICO in a different light? 100%. 100%.

Because the thing, the funny thing was, like you just said, is there was such a big opinion on Rico and who is this guy? We don't know him. He just had one professional boxing fight. He's a kickboxer. Who is he? They know the name now, and they know what we're capable of. So do not ever judge a book by its cover.

And also for everybody that's watching, for all the fans that are watching, and people that have a dream that are watching, there's only one person that has to believe in your dream. And that is you and nobody else. you can have so many naysayers and people that do not believe in what your what your dream is and what you want to accomplish in life like you're the one that needs to put in the work and have fun with it and just just prove them prove them wrong that's all you got to do just prove them wrong and do it with a big smile and do it with humility that's all you can say is like I told you so you but you guys might you guys might

and I believe it, but I believed it all my life. That's why we're here. Throughout the night and throughout the fight and in the aftermath, Jake Paul was very vocal thinking that you got screwed and that you should have won. And then Francis Ngano tweeted that, you know, he liked to fight you and Jake kind of backed that up. And I know that this was on the table for the Netflix card, the MVP card. To be clear, this is what Francis tweeted when Jake tweeted that. What is your response to Francis and Jake?

Are you interested in exploring this? Like I said, like, you know, there's so many things coming my way right now. So like I'm just like slowly looking at everything, reviewing everything. So let's see what happens. But like I said, for me, to be honest, I'm looking at the rematch. I'm looking at the rematch first because I think that's the fight that the people want to see. But let's see what's on the table. have they reached out to you yet mvp like i said everybody's been reaching out

like one of one of the people and one of the the opportunities that we've got it's been massive it's been crazy but we're just like taking it one day at a time just like still letting all the yeah the dust settle because it's it's been crazy a real like like i said Nobody expected this to happen, except for us, and it did happen. So we're super thankful that we got the opportunity to show this to the world. And now we're just going to slowly take it day by day, step by step, and see what's next. And also, just curious, are you contractually tied to anyone? Or are you free to talk to anyone, work with anyone's?

Like, was there any sort of provision to taking this fight that you have to then take your next fight with them? or are you free to do whatever you want at this point? Are you truly a free agent? Yeah, I'm a free agent. So it was just a one fight deal, but they definitely showed already before this fight that they wanted to do more. And then with them, I'm talking about the Re-Rat season group

and his excellency. So like I said, we're in talks with them and see what the future will hold for us. But there are more offers and everything on the table and people that are yeah talking to us and sending us offers and asking like hey what can we do can we do this can we do that so like I said

we're yeah just slowly reviewing and enjoying the position that we're in because the RICO stock is yeah would it be fair to say though given your success boxing right now probably interests you the most because you want to see just how far you can take this how much you can build off of this oh 100%

100% because I think if I believe, I think I believe that I showed I can be one of the best boxes in the world. I mean, I think you very clearly showed that and you shocked a lot of people and it must be fun to be in that position. You were the top dog for so long. Kind of being the underdog for a little bit is fun. It's different, right?

Yeah, it was fun. It was fun because nobody expected it except for us because we knew we were. if we were going to do this, when we were going to do this, everybody was going to, hmm, maybe we took this thing a little bit too lightly. So that that was a good thing. That was a good position to be in, but it was only there for a short amount of time, because now we're there. Like if you look on my Instagram, I make fun of it anyway.

You know, like where did we go get his tactics from and his moves? but I'm funny Jim Carrey I'm enjoying myself it's so much fun you are putting out a master class on how to deal with these situations on the highest of levels

and for those that have been watching you following you covering you we aren't surprised but there was such a massive spotlight on you it's really amazing to see you handle all this was so much class and grace like I said, and a big smile on your face. I did want to ask you, and I promise I'll let you go in a moment,

but you posted something at the beginning of the week, you know, of you standing in front of the pyramids, and then a photo of your late mother, who unfortunately passed away. And again, we send our condolences to you and your family in the exact same spot. To feel that, to start the week with something like that, and to perhaps have her presence there

in this most unique location, right? This is not your typical location. Can you tell us when you realize, that you had this photo of her and how it felt for you to recreate that? Yeah, it was, yeah, basically it was just hard. I don't know why, but for some kind of reason,

when I have the highest highs in my life, for some kind of reason, during that time, the deepest lows come around the corner as well. And that has, happened with me knowing that I was going to face the very best for the title and we're going to do it in Egypt so that yeah there was a really special moment for me and then this happened and it was like a really deep low and then me and my sister cleaning out my mother's house and coming by these pictures with my mom standing in front of the pyramids I was like wow

this is this is insane it like I said in multiple interviews this felt like a full circle. Like everything came together. She was there. Like through the last years, she couldn't make it to my fights. And now I was just feeling like she was there. She was protecting me.

She was supporting me with everything she had and she was there with me. So it was such a special moment for me being there at that exact same spot where she was 30. was 30 years prior. Yeah. Just like I said, I feel blessed and thankful to have gotten that opportunity to do that.

Yeah, it was amazing to see. And I can't imagine what you were going through before one of the biggest fights and nights of your life. Can I also ask you about the gloves that you were wearing? They were somewhat unique. Can you tell us about them and the process of getting them approved? Yeah, so my trainer, Dennis, he has his own boxing brand, kickboxing and kickboxing brand. So he has gloves. He has all the equipment, et cetera.

It's called super pro boxing gear. And, yeah, of course, we went through the normal process of getting gloves approved. But first, we started like, ah, this is probably not possible. So it's going to be hard. And, yeah, let's just take. take one of the brands that are already licensed. But then I said, like, I would love to wear this brand because those are the gloves I train with.

Those are the gloves I always use on a daily basis. So I would love it. At least, let us try. Let's see what happens. So we got the process going. We sent the gloves over to Mexico, to the WBC and everybody. And they sanctioned it. So they were, they approved it.

They tested them and everybody looked at them, even Team Usik checked the gloves. So everybody was like happy with the weight. Everything was the padding. Everything was exactly according to the rules. So I was super happy with that. And yeah, of course, Dennis also. So it was amazing.

I love that. And did you happen to hear from Tom Aspinall after the fight? Yeah, I got text and everything, but I didn't have the time to reply to everybody. So like I'm taking this this week to slowly like check in and call everybody. But everybody was like super supportive and like literally like from all angles all over the world from friends, from actors, from combat sports legends to like I don't know, everybody. Everybody reached out through DM WhatsApp calling me and I'm slowly like I try to. to catch up on everybody.

And you've got a wedding to plan, right? Aren't you getting married this summer? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That's a lot. That's a lot. Your, your fiancé probably has had a lot on her plate in planning this as you're getting ready for the fight, right?

100%. 100% like these last, so let's say like six months I've been in training camp. So first for the AJ fight and then after that for the Usik fight. But before that, I was another like seven. to eight weeks in London for the movie Roadhouse which we talked about. So it's been

a roller coaster. So she's like, hey, can I have you for like a little bit now? I'm trying babe, I'm trying. I said, this week I'm going to do like media. I'm going to be all over the place. I'm going to London as well this week because I have a bunch of media there.

But after that, I'm fully committed. I'm fully yours. So it's been crazy, but she's really supportive and, yeah, happy and excited that everything is going our way. And so considering that, when do you think we see you again? I have no clue.

When would you like to fight again? Like, would you like another fight this year? Because you're going to get married in the summer. You're not going to fight in the summer. 100%. No, I'm excited. Okay. So let's see what the, yeah, what's on the table.

But I'm definitely ready. excited to to jump into this beautiful boxing adventure again. It feels like if there was any chance of you

returning to kickboxing that's done now, right, with all these opportunities? You've been there. Yeah, I think that chapter of the book

is, yeah, is over. You know, we did it all. And I don't really believe that

there is anything that that wasn't done there. But like, but now when we're talking about it like how cool would it be like if we would have like a crazy boxer that would say like hey let's do one boxing match and let's do one kickboxing match like i don't know let's uh i don't know the everything everything's possible these days so especially with

everybody thinking so far outside of the box i don't know i don't know what's going to go uh what's going to happen last thing for you riko and again thank you so much for the time. This has been amazing. I was so, I don't know, I don't even think proud is the right word. I shouldn't like it. But man, I just feel you're such a good person and you've always been such a class act and to see you rise to the occasion watching that like I was swelling and then I felt like I felt like everyone who's ever supported you or watched you had their hearts taken out because it was just so wrong. If you would have gotten knocked out, you would have gone knocked out. that's the sport, it happens.

But for it to transpire like that, and then the salt in the wound of the scorecards, it was like, what is happening here? Can I just ask you before I let you go, what would you like to say to perhaps the minority, the vocal minority who did back you, who did try to tell the boxing community? And I'm not talking about myself,

I'm talking about your kickboxing fans, your loyal supporters, the Dutch fans who filled those stadiums, who watched all of your glory fights, who were trying to tell them, like, this guy isn't a joke. You may not know who he is, but he's actually the greatest of all time.

What do you want to say to those people who are backing you? No, guys, it's just like, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate that. I've always said it, and also the people around me, my team, and the fans that have been supporting, and also the new fans that are here now, the boxing fans that first maybe were like naysay, or didn't really believe it.

Also, welcome. and thank you guys as well for what you guys did because believe me that was just like oil on the fire so i was like that was just that just fueled me and the only thing i can say is that i'm like the living proof of having it just have a dream have a dream follow that work hard and do it with a smile and even now even though like officially maybe I didn't win but like I feel like I'm the uncrowned king yes I'm still I'm still here with a smile I'm still here being humble to everybody even the people that didn't support me and people that do support me and always have supported me just do everything with a smile

there's there's so much negativity in the world and so much people being angry at other people and for whatever reason, I don't know, but it's just a waste of energy. We all have like, let's say, our energy bars at 100% when we wake up. And when you wake up and you're angry at somebody or at the world or whatever, that energy bar goes down. And there's all like 10, 20 or 30% of energy, if your daily energy gone by you just being angry. And that energy you can put in positive.

and good things. So please keep doing that. Keep focusing on the positive because I truly believe when you do that, you're in the positive universal circle and positive things will keep coming your way. But that's also that works the same way on the other side in the negative circle. You keep being negative and the universe is going to give you even more negative things to work with. So, again, thank you guys so much. Really appreciate you. Appreciate you. Ariel for always taking the time to talk to me.

Always supporting me, of course. Also, in this, you were really, really focal about your opinion like you're always so thank you for that, for that support. Appreciate that. And, yeah, let's just keep pushing the RICO brand to, yeah, to the next level. Congratulations, Rico. Unbelievable what you did. You should be extremely proud.

It was amazing to watch. I'm sorry it ended up that way, but love to see the silver lining approach that you're taking, and I expect nothing less from you. So, well done. Hold your head high, and I can't wait to see all the fun things that are going to come your way as a result.

Well done. Thank you again for coming on. Really, really appreciate it. Good, Jeff. See you next time. There he is. The great Rico Verhoeven. As he said,

uncrowned king of kickboxing, uncrowned king of boxing. course, uncrowned king of kickboxing because he vacated the title. He walked away from Glory. And it was cool to see the Glory's social media account backing him up, supporting him, showing him love in the aftermath. That was nice, despite the fact that they parted ways. Look at that. Justice Fariko. Love that. It was great, man. It was really great. I really enjoyed it. And yeah, you can harp on the time. Trust me. I was standing there at my kid's soccer game. It was pouring rain. I was like, guys, come on, please.

I actually felt for Adé, Tony, and Alster tremendously because you could tell that they were just trying their hardest. And in those moments, you don't really quite know how it's all going to play. Like, when are they actually going to walk? You're just waiting for a producer to tell you in your ear something. Believe it or not, they are wearing IFBs and someone is telling them something and they're telling them to stretch or they're telling them to keep talking. It's not on them. It's definitely not on them. So don't blame those guys.

And it actually very rarely, I don't know. In this case, I don't know what was going on because it was pay-per-view. It's different when it's not pay-per-view. But nevertheless, that's not the story. That's going to be a constant. The story is Rico Verhoeven rising to the occasion, shocking the vast majority of the public. And, yeah, and getting robbed and getting screwed. It was a disgraceful stoppage.

That's how I felt on Saturday, and I still feel that way. It was a disgraceful stoppage. and the scorecards were disgraceful as well. They really were. It's not right. And you never want to watch something. We've talked about this in the past. You never want to watch something

and feel like you were taken for a ride. And to be very clear, I am not suggesting that any of the promoters or anything like that were involved. But, you know, it could be as simple as those judges, those referees were like, there ain't no way. There ain't no way. That could be it.

It's not always as deep as like someone was paid off. But that stoppage and those scorecards were not bright. They were not just. That was a disgrace. And if it would have gone the distance and he would have lost because of that knockdown in the 11th, I would have felt the same way. And as I said, a referee should never stop a fight based on how much time is left. Oh, there's a minute left I'm going to stop.

it or oh there's a second left I'm not going to stop it no you stop it when you think the fight should be stopped and there was a very famous fight Melgerick Taylor and Julio Cesar Chavez these things happen these things happen one second left in the fight

not in the round not in the 11th or 10th in the fight in the 12th I believe it was back then 15th maybe definitely a second left in the fight great legendary nights on on HBO about that these things happen

But the point is, the referee in this case, stopped it after the bell, and even the stoppage in a silo in a vacuum was a bad stoppage. If there was two minutes and 50 seconds left in the round, I don't think that stoppage was right. Anyway, you don't want to hear me wax on and on and on about this. I want to speak to Rico's head coach. The great Peter Fury is here. We've heard Rico talk about him. We've heard Tom Aspinall talk about him. We've heard Andy Aspinall talk about him.

What a great honor it is to be joined by the man who guided Rico from this journey, kickboxer to boxer and then put together that game plan and almost shocked the world. And in my opinion, won that fight. If it ended in that 11th round, they should have won that fight. Peter Furi, kind enough to join us right here now to talk about it all on this Tuesday afternoon. Hello, Peter. How are you? Thank you so much for joining us.

Really appreciate it. I'm good. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be on. Nice to meet you as well. Yes, so great to meet you. and obviously I've heard so much about you. It's a real honor to have you on, especially after that moment.

And so I'll ask you the same question that I asked Rico, who was just on moments ago, at the very beginning of our interview. Two days later, or three days now, how do you feel about what transpired on Saturday? He told us, just to be clear, he's on Cloud 9. And I wasn't sure if he was going to say, I'm heartbroken, I'm distraught, or Cloud 9. So how are you feeling about what transpired on Saturday? I feel fine we're in a sport

and a sport is what we're in so anything can happen in there especially in the heavyweight division so you know it is what it is it was a very good fight you know he brought it

who's it done very well for me to stay in there and fight back you know it's people don't see what I see and what was actually going on there and believe me, Rico was a big force, he's a force to be reckoned with, so it was amazing

from him, it really was, so I'm happy, like I say, we're very proud of him, what he's achieved, yeah, it's unfortunate about the referee and the scorecards, but, you know, let's not forget the 11th round, Husseye team with an incredible uppercut, and it changed the, it changed the context of the fight, but up until then, he was doing marvelous. When Rico came to you with this idea that he was going to do this, he was going to pursue this, and eventually it happens, could you tell us truthfully, how did you feel? Did you feel like this was crazy? Did you feel like it was a bit too much? Like, it was one thing to fight AJ, who isn't quite at the level at this point as Usik. It's another to fight Alexander Usik,

top pound for pound in the world and the heavyweight champion. How did you feel at the very beginning of this journey? I just felt I'm comfortable. I've known Rico and Dennis for 15 years and I know what he can do and with him being an undisputed kickboxing champion and had

90 odd professional fights and this guy's been fighting from the age of six plus add to the fact that he's a super athlete. I genuinely believed, which has come to be true as well, that I could transform him, you know,

and give him a new style. Because everything we've done over the years has been for his kickboxing. I've just been the coach who's helping him with his hands to punch. But as you know, kickboxes, they stand square, they lean on the back leg,

you know, to get the front foot up. It's a totally different sport, different dynamics. But we worked on his arms quite a lot over the years. So we've always had, I would say we've had a beautiful relationship over the years. He's very, very close to me.

All of his team are. And this was a great team effort. And I can't thank his team, Dennis, all of the team, for putting everything on hand for me to just let me concentrate and do what I do. And to have RICO responding

to everything that we're doing, you know, this guy needs so much credit because he is so professional, hard working and dedicated. It's on another level, really isn't. And what he'd done, what he'd done for me in the sparring, the way he was coming on, and not just that, but believe in the process when it didn't seem possible.

You know, so I can't credit him enough. And I'm thankful, you know, the fight went how it did. He was very competitive in it. And he put on a marvelous display. So I'm absolutely over the moon. I'm fascinated by that task that you had of transitioning him from a kickboxer to a boxer from a technical standpoint. Can you tell us in the early days what was the most difficult part? Because this is a guy who is so ingrained in his ways.

As you say, started when he was six years old and he was the very best, in many people's eyes, the greatest of all time. And now you're trying to change habits in order to fight the current best. And so what were those difficult tasks that you were faced with? well mainly the squareness square on not to the side leaning back on the back leg always boxing off the back foot you know stuff like this very hit itable in pro boxing in pro boxing that kickboxing stance at this level and fighting usick as well you know he would have got he would have had no defense and yeah you can't lean back you know when you're not using your legs you know that's

it's not ideal so it limited it limited his movement his speed and everything else so there was a lot to work on a lot to work on plus the rotations the twisting of the body also the head movement

all stuff that Rico's never done before so he had to be I said on an interview yesterday it's almost like we had to take an armor and smash every bone in his body and rebuild him but we had six months and this is what happens when you've got a super athlete

you've got somebody who's dedicated believes in itself and loves a challenge because he was fighting in Usick and everybody wrote him off he loved it even more so this is what I mean with the mentality he's an ideal person

to train and he took to it like a fish to water he loves boxing and that's what he really wanted to do so yeah it comes together he's done terrific

and yeah, it was brilliant to see. I loved seeing the sort of transformation in real time. Just his stance, the way he was sort of hunched over, the head down. It was a different kind of look to what we've seen from him in the past. And so can I ask you about that in terms of the game plan, in terms of what you thought would be best against Ussick, why did you have him look the way in which he did, which clearly worked? Well, look, the idea, you know, we keep circling,

keep on the outside of his front foot and, you know, due to switching up on the way in, hands up, rotating, and also when you're leaning over the front foot like that, it takes away Ussich's body shots. So you've got to give Uc maximum credit

because RICO never proposed any openings. You know, he looked like he's in front of him, but he's not. You look where his feet are, he's on the outer side, which means he's taking, away U6 jab, he's taking away the hook, and he's

taking away a lot of the stuff. So, you know, it's very technical to explain, but the style that we give him, we knew suited him because also when you're leaning forward, he puts extra length on his punches. So it's very deceiving.

He looks like he's out of range, but he's it because he's on the foot, but he's on the foot foot. So all these things that, you know, we look at, and a lot of of every weight to throw big power shots. So to throw power shots, that means you've got to set your feet, you're slow. This wasn't about power shots.

This is about going light, going in, and finding your range, and then putting your shots together. Nice and relaxed. That was another big thing. Getting him to relax, because kickboxing, it's tense, it's brutal. And we know boxing, it's finesse, it's an art. So this is why all these things had to be. implemented and it took time. It took six months.

To be very clear, what do you think of the stoppage? I thought he was a very good shot, Alexander Isick, and he genuinely went down, but he got up. I think there was punches going. When I say punches ain't landing. There's going against, a lot of it was going against the gluts. And he threw a punch back. He was on his feet, and I didn't realize the bell had ended then, but the bell had ended. So the thing is, what he should have done, he should have sent him back to his corner. Because he's not, this is a guy that's in a competitive fight here for the championship of the world. And the thing is, he's on his feet, the bell's gone, send him back to the corner. He's not taking a beating where this guy's going to get brain damage.

He's on his feet and he fired back. So he fired a right hand and he missed. But he's there. You're seeing when he was stopped what he said to the referee, he was coherent at all times. And even at the end of it, what I found tells you the type of man Rico is, because he said at the end when I was talking to him in the ring, he said, look, I don't like this, I'd rather go out on my shield. That's the type of man he is.

So what's happened is, yes, it's a mistake. What the referee done is wrong. It's totally wrong what he's done. But accident will happen. It's human error. I'm not going to go into no conspiracy theories because I'm, spoke to a referee and he told me that he didn't hear the bell. But it was at the end of the round anyway. I just think it was totally wrong, the stoppage. And if he'd have went out, it'd have either

got through the 12 rounds and it would have went to points or Ussick would have had a clean knockout. That's what should have happened. So, but Ucic's been robbed of that. And RICO's been robbed of the chance of seeing the final bell because we've got a third man in the ring. that's interfering in a world title fight, which is highly competitive. You know, he's gone down and he's got up, and he's defending himself, and the bell's gone,

and he's still defending himself. So, yeah, so it was a, it's a bad call, but it is what it is. I saw you tell IFL TV that you saw the referee, Mark Leicen at the airport, and you went up to him. Can I ask you about that interaction? You recognized him, and you just walked up to him and said, what was your side of the story? Tell me how this all went down.

Well, yes, exactly, because I know Mark Lysen. I've seen him before. I've been in boxing a long time. We all know each other. The referees, boxing board of control, we all know each other. So there's no unfriendliness. I just walked over and I said, Mark, I said, what happened in there? I said, because, you know, can you explain? And he just looked at me and he said, well, you know, I done my best at the time or something to this effect. and I said But yeah I said it was wrong

I said because The bell had already gone I said he was on his feet I said he was He was fighting back I said you've jumped in So why did you not send him to a corner I never really got an answer off him

For any of that But as when I asked him something else And I mentioned about well Why did you do it after the bell And he said Peter I never heard the bell And to be honest To give him the credit

I did not hear the bell myself So that was the start in the end of the conversation actually He never said anything further But I shook his hand I said there's no hard feelings I said and mistakes happen And that's it

You know I want to believe the best in people I don't want to look at What could be and what could not be It's tragic It's definitely the wrong thing to do That's the fact Because it's caused a lot of controversy

When it was a great fight And you know it takes away some lime light of what Usyk had to deal with as well. You know, so yeah, it got messy through somebody else's mistakes. You know, that's, he sounds like a good guy. People have spoken about him. And so that's a human error. And as you say, you were there.

And if you yourself didn't hear the bell, then I'd like to believe him. What almost is more unsettling to me are the scorecards, because that's like a systematic. that's not like one snap decision that's a consistent look at the fight and seeing something different than the rest of us. When you saw those scorecards and that two judges had a tide

going into the 11th, how did you feel? You know, to be honest, Ariel, I've not watched it back. I need to watch it back because I was more concentrated on what I was doing with Rico when he come back to the corner and stuff he was working on. See, don't forget, Rico is a former kickboxer

so he had to be kept to the plan, not drift off it. So that was my main concern, is keeping him on the move, keeping his head moving, and keep it to the process. So the scoring, the actual looking at it and scoring it

and seeing who's winning and who's not, I knew it was very competitive. But at the time when I'm looking at it, for me to think, we're up on the scorecards, that's a luxury. That's a luxury I don't look at. So I've never really examined it,

but I will watch it back and see. but scores are subjective I think what the referee ended up doing plus the scores it doesn't give a good light on the sport but we are where we are you know he's a don't forget this was

Usik's show it was all about Alexander Usik you know Rieko Verhoeven wasn't given a prayer in there by anybody so the thing is it was I think a lot of these governing bodies they get a thing

go for the champion no matter what and they want the champion to retain that belt under any circumstances. So there is quite all usually there's bias there, but you can expect in world level boxing this is the case because they're always going to favor the champion. And so one could say that this was a black eye the way it ended, but I would also argue that there's a great silver lining here for RICO because now it feels like he's the people's champion, right? Now he becomes a very sympathetic figure that people, you know, if you didn't know about

him, you're like, this guy was wrong, that we always love to back someone who he feels as an underdog who was wrong. Do you view it that way as well? Do you think that his stock is now even greater and there's greater interest in your guys' fighting career? I would like to see Rico's stock risen for his achievement in there, not through the controversy.

Because what do you give? The kind of a boxing match he gave to Alexander Usik has never been done like that before. It was Usik's hardest fight, and Rico gave him his hard his tussing. to date. It was absolutely a fabulous performance and we can

go on about game plans and we can talk about all this but if the guy is not capable of doing it, then your game plans up in smoke. So he needs all the credits in the world for doing what I asked of him, keep him to the plan and I'm so proud of him what he did

and I want people to get behind him to being a world level athlete. He's already a super undisputed world champion in his own sport and to do what he done with Alexander Usik it's just short of well it's not a miracle but it's amazing what he did

you know he took punches he give him back he didn't he didn't panic under pressure you know he was in the fight nothing phased him it's coming forward and he was happy so I'm very happy with his performance

I've heard people say that and they said the same thing about Tyson when he fought Francis he didn't take the opponent seriously Usik was a little bit bigger. We had Hamza Shiraz on the show. Oh, you know, he took him lightly. He was a little bit bigger.

And now I've heard other people say, I think including yourself, say, like, look, he was bigger because he was fighting a bigger guy. And so he wanted to put on that extra muscle. Do you think, and I know that's sort of, I understand it's unfair to you to ask this question because it's asking you to answer on his team's behalf. But based on what you saw from him, not only his physique, but the fighting as well, do you think that he took the challenge lightly, that he didn't give the RICO challenge,

the respect that it deserved in the training? Absolutely not. I know Team RICO, and I know people. Team Mucic, you mean, right? Team Mucic, yeah, sorry. And I know him very well, and I've got a high-to-respect for him. And I can assure you,

Alexander Usik, train for this, the same as he's trained for all of his other fights. He's had the same amount of time. He's had good sparring. and he knew what was ahead of him. You know, don't forget, he thought he was coming in with a guy around 120 plus kilos. You know, that's a lot of weight, and he knows how good Rico is.

You know, don't forget, he was asked a question, is Dubois and Harder fight than Rico? What's your opinion? He said, no, Rico's going to be more difficult. So he's a magician in his thought process. He analyzes everything. And Usik is not a man to be caught cold. he's not a man to be caught unawares I was only speaking to Ross Amber

in the fight week that was a very good friend of mine and he said Peter Ousick's unbelievable he said if he was literally fighting a bin man or somebody a postman or whatever he would train like a Trojan for that fight because he's always weary of the unexpected

so the extra pounds was put on because it helps you absorb body shots it makes you a little bit stronger to absorb the punishment and what he done was very calculated and I'm not going to take any thing away from Alexander Usik because I know everyweight boxing and I know what it takes to get in there

and what Rico was doing was putting Usik under immense pressure if Usik hadn't been in fantastic phenomenal shape and prepared like he had he wouldn't have made it because Rico would have got to him because the pace Rico set that sheer body weight getting in clenches roughening him more and Alexander to withhold his momentum and still be there in the 11th round, still throwing punches and still be strong, after taking a lot of punches, how can anybody sit there in the right mind and say, he took this fight lightly? They don't know boxing if they're doing that. And I am not speaking for Tim Usik. Speak to them yourself, and they'll tell you exactly the same thing. Alexander Usik doesn't take anybody lightly. When he has a fight, he signs up for it, he goes into camp, locks himself away and he dedicates like nobody.

That's why he's such a great three times undisputed world champion. Guys like this, especially where he's from, don't take the foot off the gas, period. Rico told us earlier that if it was up to him, he would love the rematch. That's his desire. Do you share that sentiment? 100% I do, because it'd be nice for them to get it back on. I think Usik will feel

he's to himself I've been robbed of a knockout you know it was there on a plate for me if you'd come out

I'd have probably got to him especially with the controversy what's going around it Rico feels like you know

he made a he made a rick in there in the 11th round which he didn't need to make that's another story so you know I would like to see

I would like to see the fight happening so hopefully hopefully they can get it back on because we'd be all for that fight again, no problem at all. One thing that I raised, and I'm wondering if you agree or disagree,

I think the element of surprise when we have a lot of these crossover fights, the way Connor looked in the early rounds against Floyd, the way Francis looked against Tyson, the way Rico looked against Usik, there's something that the other side can't game plan for because there isn't a lot of footage

on who these people are as boxers. And then we saw what happened when Francis fought AJ in his second fight, he got knocked out in the second round. Do you think that it then makes the task even harder? Because now there's 11 rounds on your guy and they're able to game plan a little bit more. Well, this game at world level is all about IQ. So we factor in what's going to happen. I factor in what the opponent's going to think about.

I factor in what he's looking at and I factor in what you'll think in the second time around. Rico Verhoeven is not a one-eight wonder, that's number one. Secondly, he's going to do even better in the next one, whether it be against Dusick or anyone else, because all as Rico was lacking was ring experience the 12 rounds, the pace, you know, and just a few little minor things like that, how to conserve energy in the round, just like minute things, but minute things are big things.

So we will work on all these shortcomings There's not many of them But I will work on him with Rico I know what they are And I will work on it And every fight is different Every game plan is different for every individual So he's not a one-it-wonder

And you're going to see him And he's going to do another spectacular performance Because he's Rico Verhoven He's not like anybody else I love that Can I also ask you You know the Aspenols speak so very highly of you, Andy Aspinall. I spoke to him over the weekend, Tom as well. They were so happy

for you and just were glowing about the work that you did with Rico and your friendship, Andy in particular. And so could I ask you about Tom, your perspective on Tom? And, you know, there's this idea that Tom at some point is going to try his hand at boxing and how do you think he would do if he decided to go that route? Well, I've known Tom and his dad. I've known him from a young young lad again. You know, he had one pro fight with me and I think from maybe 2015 or something

I can't remember the exact times. He was in the gym with us in Bolton in England and he spent two or three years with with us training and he really developed his boxing skills with us so I regard Andy Aspernull and Tom Aspernel

as part of my team because they are you know he done a lot with me, Tom and his dad back in the day. We were probably three or four years together. You know, so like I just said, he had one pro fight with me as well. So he developed his boxing skills.

So we've always had a good relationship. His father's an exceptional trainer in the MMA. He knows that. Wrestling, better than anybody, I would say. He's top of the draw. I'm such a great guy as well, genuine. And the thing is, he, uh, Actually, I only spoke to him earlier on today.

I was on the phone to Andy for about an hour, talking about all this and one thing and other. So we're all one team. So you've got myself, you've got Dennis, you've got Dennis Crowell, there's Rico, and his team there. And then you've got Andy Aspinall, Tom Aspinall. You know, they're all around,

they've all been around me at certain periods of their careers. So, you know, I'm pleased to see what Tom Aspinall's done. Tom Aspinall's got super fast hands. He's quick. He's agile. For a man at 18 and a half stone, whatever that is in kilos,

maybe 1.16, he is, 117, kilogram. The speed and the way he moves is phenomenal. So could he do something in boxing? Yeah. Probably a similar story to Rico, really. He could definitely do the transition because they've all been around me

for years in boxing. They know they've known. the game because they know me and we've had the conversations for hours on end. They know the sport. They know this game because, you know, we've all, we've all been around each other for years. So yes, the transition from Tom Aspenall will be pretty easy and do I think you can do big things? Yeah, for sure. I have loved having you on. I'd be remiss before I let you go if I don't ask you just because it came out today. There's a report that Tyson's going to take another fight I know you don't work with him anymore before this AJ fight, perhaps in Ireland.

How do you feel about the way in which this is all playing out these sort of tune-up fights before the big one, sort of tempting fate it feels like because we're so close? How do you feel about this? Do you think this is a good idea? I think with all these heavy ways, what they need to do to suit themselves, they must do. Their teams know what their fighters are. They know what they're about, and they must feel they need to tune up, and that's great. you know it's uh you know if they're not if you feel they've had a time out or things has

happened in the life and they need more fights so be it so as long as they as long as they box at their maximum potential then it's better for everybody it's better it's better for the public we say a better fight and uh you know not just turning up for the money so you know it's uh it's all good it's good for them every boxer is different than another fighter so It's whatever suits them, where they need to be feeling better mentally. Because I've always said boxing, it's not physicality is only part of it. You know, the brain, mental side of it is immense. So if that fighter, that fighter's got to get himself in a comfortable mindset.

And to do that, if you need more fights, then so be it. What a weekend for you and your family. I do believe you welcomed a granddaughter to this world. I think the day you landed back home? You know, Ariel, she was a week over. And, you know, my son, Joseph, his wife, stall, you know, I'm so happy. And there's my beautiful grandson in my arms. You know, this is what life's about.

I'm a man. I love Jesus Christ. You know, I'm a very passionate about my faith. And I'm all about family. And to see that and come home to a beautiful little girl, you know, part of my family is the most beautiful gift I could possibly have in the world. So boxing is my passion. I do that anyway.

But to see my children have beautiful children and, you know, it's a part of me and it's a future and everything else. It's a truly is a gift. I'm absolutely delighted. It was the best present to come home to after all the hard work in six months. That's the pinnacle for me, my new granddaughter. I am over the moon. How many grandkids now for you?

I've got six at the moment but I've got still a fair few unmarried and I've told them to get married I said because I want I said I need you to get me around a hundred grandkids because the more I can get the better Amazing well enjoy those six for now I hope everyone's feeling good baby mom everyone

congratulations on that that's most important no doubt about that and congratulations to you and the team on what you did with Rico it was so much fun we've been watching Rico covering him talking about him and so to see the disrespect honestly that he was receiving in the buildup to this fight was a little bit upsetting and baffling, but then to see him rise to the occasion the way in which he did with that performance was

was really wonderful to see. So congratulations to you and the whole team. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. And thanks for having me on your show. It's been nice talking to you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much, Peter. Really appreciate it. All the best to you. Thank you. There he is. Peter Fury, kind enough to join us, the head man for Riko Verhoeven for this journey into the world of the sweet science. and well, it sounds like that journey is going to continue because why shouldn't it continue? He's accomplished it all.

He's done it all in the world of kickboxing. Nothing to really do there. And there's only one real major promotion out there. And he certainly conquered that one. There is the MMA route. But it feels like he's got something here with the boxing stuff, especially if he gets the Ussick fight. Now, I've seen Frank Warren say they want the Kabayel fight.

Khabayel versus Ussik is the fight that most people think should be next. at heavyweight. I'd love to see Atama versus Usoc. Probably not going to happen in any point, at any point in the future, in any universe. But, you know, crazier things have happened, just like Ehrouven versus Alexander Usoc fight. So let us see, let us see. We do have one more guest today

before we'll get to your news and notes. So stay tuned for that. Massive night coming up on Saturday. That is May 30th, over at the OVO arena. at Wembley in London, home right next door to Wembley Stadium. I was there just a couple years ago. Very, very nice part of town. The event is being put on by Boxer.

It is airing on BBC. And our old friend Ben Shalom is on to talk to us about that, the future of the promotion and everything going on in his life. He's kind enough to join us right here and now to talk about it. Hello, Ben. How are you? Good to see you again. I'm very well. It's been a while. It has been well, Ben. Peter on as well. What a man.

What's that? I said, good to see Peter on as well. What a man. Legend. Did you see the fight on Saturday? I did. And to be honest, Peter had, I've been speaking to Peter about Rico because he actually trains Gradus Krauss as well. He was another Dutch fight. A bit of a kickboxing background, someone that he's 24 years old. We think he's going to go right to the top of the sport. And he was just commenting on how much Rico's been overlooked. Obviously, they've been in camp for literally six months. And so we had a show in Rotterdam. Gradus Kraus was fighting on

video land over there and I saw Peter and he said, my word, Rico is, look, he's been training for him a long time, but really picked it up. And so with no surprises and he's a quality trainer. I think he doesn't sort of lick ass and he doesn't sort of creep around. So he doesn't always get the opportunities and the fighters that he deserves. But phenomenal trainer and what a man. And then, yeah, to do what he did with Rico that quickly was, yeah, it's a measure of his ability to train fighters. Just curious, while we're on the topic, what did you think of the stoppage? Oh, it was ridiculous. I mean, it was crazy.

It looked as though it looked as though it was going to be a very embarrassing night for boxing. And I felt like Rico had to survive one more round and he'd beaten Alexander Usoc. and yeah it's hard to look a lot of people say it's this and it's that and sort of agendas but it's just a terrible bit of refereeing I thought and uh look rico seems upbeat still and they've taken it well but yeah I would have been absolutely fuming I don't think I'd have been able to sleep so um but incredible performance and eucc wasn't himself 100% whether that's father time or whether that's just underestimating riko you don't know and but credit for credit to Rico because he was pretty special.

And what about those scorecards as well? Yeah, it was mad. I mean, again, you worry because it always seems to, you know, go in the favor of what's supposed to happen. You never really see it the other way. So, you know, he is the champion and he deserves that status. But, yeah, for me, RICO was a clear winner up until the stoppage. He really was.

So, yeah, it was madness all round. but one thing for sure, there's a new entrant into the heavyweight division there really is, so exciting to see someone new, definitely, because new names

coming into that division is big for the sport. And just curious, if it was up to you, would you want to see them run it back or do you think Ussick should fight Kabil? Look, I don't think

RICO needs it because I think there's huge fights for him. Obviously, I thought it would be great to see RICO have that fight in, Holland. He sells out stadiums. He sells out arenas over there, which is unusual and rare for any heavyweight fighters. I'd love to see the rematch. It doesn't seem like we're going to get it, but I think Rico's going to be okay. I think he's going to have big fights ahead.

Okay. And last thing on this, what do you think of the event? What do you think of the production, the way it looked? Some people are upset with the time in between the Comain, the Shiraz fight, and the main event, just overall from your perspective, what did you think of it? I thought it was phenomenal. I've been involved with a lot of events with Turkey. Yeah, that one in particular was phenomenal from execution to what I did to everything. So, yeah, I can't knock it, to be honest. To pull that off, it must have been extremely expensive, not sure about the economics,

but to pull that off for boxing was special. And as I say, Rico's a huge star. I don't think people realise. Like he's like, he is literally like David Beckham in Holland. As I say, we did a show there three weeks ago, sold out show for Gradis Kraus. And Rico is the, the man over there. But a phenomenal setting for it. And credit to Turkey, because it really was pretty special.

Okay, so let's transition to you Saturday night. You have a show headline by Adam Azim, who's also popular in his own right. There's the poster against Steve Claggett at the OVO Arena, Wembley in London. And to be 100% clear, is this on BBC 2? Am I right with it? This is on BBC 2. Yes. Those in the States, BBC is obviously the national broadcaster over here.

It's a big deal. We've been out of boxing for 25 years. We signed a deal with them back in, I think, August, September now. So it's only off the show, so it's early days. But the numbers we get phenomenal. And the opportunity to create household names is massive. I think to put it into context, you know, boxing's always got that murky sort of taint to it

and maybe in the past has been seen as sort of the ugly sister of the sporting world. And that's probably stopped it being on the major, major national network. So I think for BBC to come into boxing says a lot about where the sport is at, says a lot about the opportunity for the fighters. And it gives us a really unique ability, particularly in this country, to create household names. And for me, Adam Azeem is one of the biggest talents in world. boxing, 23 years old in fights on Saturday against Steve Kragut should have been fighting

Gustavo Lamos, who went missing really. But this is his chance, this is his chance to put himself in line for the world title against El Gardo, and a massive, massive night for him. And as I say, we'll be expecting over 2 million people in the UK alone to tune in on Saturday night after the Champions League final. And yeah, a massive opportunity. Yeah, what a slot. Can I ask, I've seen some of that this is the last fight on your deal with BBC? Is that accurate? There was reports. It was a four-fight deal, Ariel. So I think, if I'm counting, this is already the fifth. So absolutely not. It's very early days. And, yeah, we've seen that from the very beginning. It was apparently, it wasn't this show. Apparently, last show was our last show. Okay, so where do you stand now? Like, how many years of events? Could you tell us?

We have got the rematch coming up for Simpson-Williamson. in July, which is a big event over here after the first event. We then got another show in September. We're not going to get into specifics, but this is a multi-show long-term arrangement with the BBC. And as I say, it's such early days that it's very exciting. It's such a big beast of BBC. It's almost like an oil tanker.

And it takes a while. It's the biggest network. It's the biggest platform that we have in the UK. And they are starting to motor now. And yes, it's an exciting time for us. with the BBC. Did you feel, you know, when you had that moment where you were off sky and you were looking for that next home and I think surprised a lot of people when this deal came out, did you feel

like a lot of people were celebrating your perceived demise and then you kind of hit them with the haymaker here? 100%. I mean, it happens, I think ever since I've come into the sport, look, it's a closed shop, isn't it? It's a family-run industry. And so it was always difficult. look the sky ending i think people know was the particularly last year or two was was particularly difficult

we had you know members of of staff and with sky staff looking to try and present something to undercut us with our own fighters and i didn't even know about about it until it became obvious and so that that was a really difficult period for us um so it was certainly a a period where we had to really find our resolve and be resilient and find a great deal. And thankfully, in a matter of two months, we managed to convince the national broadcaster to come back into the sport. So it worked well, but it took rebuilding. And yeah, 100%, you know, as in boxing, it was a difficult period, but one I'm very proud of and how we recover. You know, as you say, like boxing is a, is a hard sport to penetrate and you've talked about your issues and whatnot and you've talked about being

boxed out and all this stuff. Do you feel like you have finally found your footing? Do you feel like it is where it needs to be for you guys or do you still feel like you are fighting that uphill battle? Listen, it's still early days for me. I think it's unprecedented probably what I've done at my age. I think people obviously have been around a while now, but it's an old man's sport and we definitely still, I feel at the start of the journey. We're probably got a lot more autonomy now than we used to have as a company in terms of who we sign, who we want to focus on crossover stars with real potential, you know, to be a mainstream style, to be undisputed is what we're focused on. So we have definitely matured as a business, definitely more independent, but definitely still at very, very early days for us as a business. And yeah, it's exciting what the future will hold.

Are you surprised that Sky eventually got in business with MVP and Zufa? Surprised. No, I don't think they have many options. You know, as a British promoter, you do worry about an American business, partnering with American promoters to try and disrupt a very sort of popular sport in this country. And it's always been run by sort of British promoters who understand the history, the heritage, the British titles and everything like that. So I don't think it was surprising because there just weren't many options.

But for me, from what I can see, it's the same people. It's sort of the same people with just the different banner. I mean, the first show that they've got on in June is almost a regurgitation of what I did many years ago, which had got a lot of stick for. And so from what I've seen, I think it's been. ran by a guy called James Whitehall, who I think was involved for the past couple of years, and I think it's very much, in my opinion, maybe a sort of sky-led project in the UK. But yeah, I mean, it's early days.

How do you feel about what Zoufa has done so far this year? Again, it's early days. It's so hard to tell, Ariel. Like, what can you say? What's your feel on the product, the signings, what you're going to? you're seeing from them. Personally, I think they're going to have to do a massive U-turn for it to work. And I think we're already seeing that.

They said there wouldn't be World Tiles. They said there wouldn't be working with other promoters. Then we saw the sort of legal case against the IBF when the World Title wasn't on the line. So I think it's just confusing. But ultimately, they have a huge, huge backing behind them, huge backing from all different corners. and so money does talk and eventually, you know, you'd expect them to be a serious promoter, but I do think there will become another promoter. I think, I don't think the, I think they're going to, it seems to me like they're already

fearing towards doing the traditional titles and doing the traditional events. And so, look, it's hard to say at this stage, but it is confusing the messaging right now, but the smart people there and I'm sure they'll figure it out. But my guts from how I've seen it is it becomes sort of another traditional promoter, a big promoter, but another one. As you mentioned at the top, it's been a minute since we last spoke. So I do want to ask you about a few things that have happened since the last time we had a chat. In your opinion, and I phrase it as what went wrong, but perhaps you have a different perspective,

what went wrong with Ben Whitaker? Why isn't Ben Whitaker a part of your stable in your? more. I think the promotional video said it all. I think he got offered a huge amount of money to take a risk and up-front money. And that was what drove him. And I think since his activity and the fact that he's taken, haven't really moved him anywhere forward.

And that's no slight. And I think we did an unbelievable job for him. From when I met him to how we grew in. as Brandon and how we focused on in. We did an incredible job, but I think it got to a point. I don't want to talk too much about contractual positions and this and that, but there was a huge financial incentive for him to do that. And it was a short-term decision.

And it's a shame because I think characters like him on a national broadcaster could become household names and, you know, really household names. and when I look at the Amir Khan's and the Tys and the Anthony Joshua's, do I think he possibly, in the career route he's gone, maybe missed that opportunity to become one of those, maybe. But yeah, I was hurt by it, I was definitely hurt by it, and I've seen the con events stuff that's happened since. I put a lot of personal time into that situation

and more than just from a fighting point of view and did absolutely everything. So it was definitely disappointing at the time, but it's a harsh lesson of life, you know. It's a harsh lesson of business, money talks, and ultimately there isn't any loyalty in boxing. It is very much highest bidder wins, and that's it. And it's as simple as that. And I think for me it was quite a good lesson, a harsh lesson. It was a painful lesson, but definitely a lesson in my.

in my career. I would never dare compare the two relationships, but for it to happen at around the same time as Connor Ben leaving Eddie and Matrum and seeing how that affected Eddie, what was your perspective on that? Did you feel like that was sort of like an eye for an eye, even though it wasn't you, were you taking some enjoyment in his pain? No, I think it just shows that, you know, you hear the propaganda machines around loyalty and we've got a great relationship and this and that.

and almost to the wheels fall off. And you sort of hear all this, and we treat fighters so well, they love working with us. And ultimately, for 90% of people in this industry, they're after one thing. And so it doesn't matter who you are.

It doesn't matter what you've done. It doesn't matter in any situation. That is what's going to happen. So I found it, it's more I found, and I've spoken about it, I found the reaction surprising because, you know, ultimately we all know what it is. And they've taken great pleasure in doing that to me with Ben.

And again, you are making it all about the money and trying to talk down on the job I did, which again was, I could stand by, was absolutely phenomenal. And so it was just shows it can happen to anyone. and it shows what the sport is all about and so I have no opinion on that and you know deep down

I actually I like Eddie you do we have some fun like we have some ban I think he's you know he is what he is so I don't take it it's not a personal thing I just found it funny at the time and it sort of says it's just

it's just what the sport is ultimately and it was a good example of it What have you made of the banter, so to speak, between Eddie and Dana White? I have to say. At the start, I felt like Eddie was trying to call it on with Dana, just from a profile point in view. I don't think Dana was saying much, and Eddie was trying to reel him in, which he does well.

But I think ever since Dana called Eddie out for a fight, and then Eddie took it, I found it difficult to. I've been, I found that one a difficult thing to watch because I think ultimately as child this is it is if you call out a fight and then it gets called on with you you've got to take it and I find

it I find it entertaining but I think yeah Dana will find boxing is such a different game it's such a hands-on game it's such a 24-7 game and so yeah it's definitely entertaining but I had to side with

Eddie on that one. Another fighter who you parted ways with recently was Caroline Dubois. I was curious what happened there and if you have any regret over that? Not really. I think I love Caroline. She's a great person and someone that I started with very young, you know, signed her before her debut and took her to a world title. And so, you know, we had to make a decision, you know, with where we were going in terms of

Lauren and Fran and Caroline and it wasn't we probably couldn't give everyone what they wanted And so that was difficult but equally You know she it's not just her you know there's people around her and and as I say that sky When sky finished and they will all come out and true course but There was a lot of fighters and there was a lot of shenanigans going on with fighters that were contracted to us and and as I say maybe some Sky employees targeted them whilst they're in contract and things like that and again that was a result of one of those and in the end you have to cut your losses and decide what your priorities are going to be and

and that was that and so Lauren Price and Fran Hennessy for me are two females that are absolute crossover stars and we had to make our make we had to prioritize and I wish Caroline nothing but the best I think she is yeah she's she's a great person and and as I say I've known from very young, so I'm very proud to see the woman that she's become. You mentioned Lauren Price. Lauren Price, Clarissa Shields. Is that a real thing? It is.

There's a few bits and bobs going back and forth around a two-fight deal and whether there's going to be a rematch and where it's going to be and things like that. The initial fight, the terms have been loosely agreed and now we're into the details. for me, the biggest fight that we can possibly make in women's boxing. So for me, the first, you know, I've promoted Clarissa quite a few times now, and probably the only fighter, probably the first fighter that I genuinely believe can beat Clarissa Shields and she really is the greatest of all time. So fingers crossed in the next couple of weeks, that goes over there.

Would the first one be in the UK? No. Okay. The first one will be in the US. Detroit? Yep. And it's a two-fight deal. Who's the one pushing for that?

Is that you guys? Being completely candid, we want the opportunity to make that fight in the UK as part of the deal. I think Lauren Price, if you ever come over to a show in the UK and you see how fanatical her fans are

in Cardiff. I mean, she's been selling out that arena early stage in her career. Phenomenal viewing figures on the BBC last time out. Olympic gold medalist over here. For me, the potential to emulate what Katie Taylor has done in Ireland. Obviously, Katie hasn't been fortunate yet to fight in Ireland. I think

she might soon. And so it's a huge opportunity for Lauren. We think she's a huge star over here and we want to make sure that she has some major stadium shows in Cardiff. And so that's probably the sticking point just candidly right now is making sure

that we can get something over the line that allows her to fulfill her dream of fighting at the stadium in Cardiff. Can you clarify where things stand with Chris Eubank Jr.? You say he's still contractually tied. He says he's a free agent. Where do things currently stand? Look, I was on source book with Simon today.

And I said, look, he has got a contract with us. But I have a great relationship with Chris. And I know what Chris, I know him well. And he's always acted independently. And part of the reason that he signed with us was his ability to act independently and for us to support him on that. We do have a contract with him. We expect to be promoting his next show.

And to be honest, until he's back, fit, and ready to go, I don't think people are too interested. And I just want to make sure that, you know, next time he gets in the ring, it's at the right way. He's fully fit and focused. And I feel he's still got a lot to give. And fingers crossed, that will be this year. If it was up to you, who would you like to see him in there against?

we have a fight in mind and we have a fight that we are in negotiations with and I think it's a perfect fight for Chris. Who would that be? Come on. Again, I'm going to let Chris. You're going to say this on Talksport tomorrow and then we're going to get out scoop. And I love those guys. No hard feelings. But here we are.

No, no. I think, look, next week I'll be with him and, yeah, the news will come soon. But the main thing is it'll be fighting at 168 and it'll be. feel fit and I feel healthy and he's dealt with his health issues and yeah I believe it will be this year but but he will fight again because his dad is saying that he'd like for him not to fight again you think he will fight again look and his dad's got every reason to say that he said he never wanted to the con of then fight to happen the first one the second one um do i ever want him to fight in the state that he fought his last fighting even as a friend even nothing to do with him

Absolutely not. Do I want him to fight if he feels fit, ready, able, and a natural weight for him? Absolutely. And I believe that's what he's focused on. He managed to have the time now to have the treatment that he deserved, that he didn't manage to get in between the first fight and the second fight with Conner Ben.

And now fighting at his natural way, I think he's feeling good and he's feeling confident about where he's going to be. But we'll make sure he's 100%. And what about this Martin Bacoli? He's saying you're trying to ruin his career. Where do things stand with him? Ruining his career when we've literally changed his life,

made him a multi, multi-millionaire. Is an interesting one. But again, there's people around him. And it's a funny time because, you know, I think there's promoters. And I've seen it a lot, you know, there's new people in the business being extremely aggressive and in my honest opinion motivating fighters to break their contracts um you know financially and so that's a difficult one to

deal with because you're not used to that you know you used to people respecting their contracts you used to people respecting the investment you've made you used to people um honoring that and so yeah particularly with the hard work that we've put in and the and the opportunities that been turned down recently, that has been very disappointing, but nothing surprises me anymore in this sport, particularly in the really fragmented sort of aggressive environment that we're currently in, given probably Zuffer's entry into it. And so, yeah, we'll see what happens there, but personally, nothing against Martin. And yeah, fingers crossed, we're seeing back in the ring very soon. Is there ever any part of you that's like, you know what, this is too much? I don't like this.

This is too much fighting, arguing, the back and forths, all this stuff. Does it ever get overwhelming? I know you're the youngest of the bunch, but do you ever have days where you're like, I hate this? Listen, at the start, 100%. You come into a sport and there's probably not many businesses like it. And so when I'm really honest with myself, was I surprised at the start? And was I too emotionally involved, too emotionally invested, too dictated, too dictated,

by what was going on 100%. But I think as you mature and you develop in the sport and obviously you become more comfortable and you've sort of got over, you've had your first major fights and realistically made your first money and things like that.

You can sort of see it for what it is and it's a game and it's a pantomime a lot of the time. I think people see it and see the back and forth and sometimes if you're not in that environment and you're not used to it, it can seem a bit much,

but it's a pantomime. There's a lot of sharks, there's a lot of snakes, there's a lot of scumbags. I mean, I'd say 90% of the sport. And that's probably why, look, I know that coming in,

we, you know, we are a disruptor and we don't bend down and we're not, we're not necessarily here to be all pali, pali and friendly with everyone.

And to be honest, that's the way we like it. So it comes with the territory. And we're in a sport full of sharks, and that's what it is. Why should fans in the UK watch on Saturday? Give us the hard sell. And when are we going to get these shows back in the United States? You had the deal with Peacock, but to the best by knowledge, we can't get them in the United States, right?

We are currently on Triller. So Saturday night will be on Triller. Okay, okay. But in July, we have an announcement around where our shows will be brought. in the US. I will definitely give you the first. Let us know, yes. But this show is massive because, look, Adam is he, Steve Claggart, two coming off the back of two knockout wins, took to Yafema Lopez the fight before that, the complete distance, probably the most experienced and decorated fighter Adam has fought for today. And they're coming in extremely confident. If Adam can

stop him, it's a huge statement because no one stops Steve Claggart. This is the fight before the fight. This is the fight that gets him his world title shot for me one of the brightest stars in world boxing at 23 in an unbelievable division with huge huge fights in the horizon and I think to be honest

I think a lot of US audiences after his performance against Kurt Skowby really started to take note of Adam Azim and yeah it'll be a special night for him on Saturday night in front of a huge audience a huge spectacle a huge shot window so yeah hopefully be a

finding night in the young man's career. Best of luck to you, Ben. All the best. Looking forward to that one. Looking forward to that announcement. We want more of those shows here in the United States. Always great to catch up with you. Appreciate the time. Brother, thank you. There he is. Ben Shalom, the founder of boxer. Adam Zim is going to join us on the show tomorrow.

I know a lot of fans are excited about him. And certainly in the UK, he's got a great following. So check that out on Saturday. Also on Saturday, I'll be in El Paso, Texas. I've never been to El Paso. Frank, have you ever been to El Paso, I have. You have? Yeah.

I'd like some recommendations. What do they got there? Text Max? It's been a hot minute. But yes, they have Tex-Mex. You should definitely take advantage of that. Well, if anyone out there has a good wreck or two, I've never been to El Paso. I sort of don't like going to places where I have to.

I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to like flights where there's, you know, a layover. I don't like that. What do you call that? An indirect. But it's a quick jaunt, and it's a pretty good card. Holly Holmes on the card. She'll join us tomorrow as well. going up against Stephanie Hahn, Amanda Serrano on the card as well.

So I'm looking forward to that, another show on ESPN. But Frankie, A.L. We have a lot to get to, and we've got only 45 minutes left because I've got a big, well, I got a big thing. Should I talk about what I have after? No. Okay, don't talk about that. It's your criminal record. Okay, perfect.

All right. We're going to go through. I have so much to get to. So buckle up. I told Pizzi, stay home. We have no use for you. We'll talk to you tomorrow on the next. knows. Here's Tom Aspinall reacting in real time. He's watching this in real time to his buddy,

the great Rico Verhoeven, getting screwed by the referee. Take a look. Oh, it's the end of the round, is it? Oh, why he stopped it? No fucking way. For a world title fight, he stopped it with about five or six on-answered shots. What? That's mad when you think about it, because Usa and Fury had a similar, not even, it was even worse than that. Hey, what the f***ing hell's that? What a robbery. What a fix, that is, that is outrageous.

Hey, two weeks ago, or whatever it was, we were at Fabio Wardley and Daniel Du Bois, ringside. Mate, that happened probably ten times. Sent Fabio Wardley out there, big swollen eye on one side, nose squash, big swelling on his forehead, been dropped five times in the fight. send him out again for another round. Stopped at about three rounds too late. Rico gets stumbled to his knee. They let him up with 10 seconds left.

He lands a few unanswered shots. They don't even let him make it to end the round. It's a fucking robbery. What the fuck is that? Fibing, boxing don't want anyone else to win. Simple as that. They want the boxers with the amateur style coming in, winning their Olympic medal

and then switching over and being unbeaten pros. That's what they want. They don't like other combat sports. I don't know if that is in fact true, but that was the most interesting part of the clip, in my opinion, what he said on the back end. They don't want anyone else to win. And I don't know if that's something ingrained by the promoters, by the matchmakers, or just by the officials in attendance. He can't possibly be doing this to Alexander Usik. His reaction was fascinating to watch.

Obviously, it's his friend, but I feel like a lot of us had that reaction. Alexander Usik took to Twitter and reacted to it all as well. Here's what he had to say. They say it was tense watching my fight with Rico. Guys, I just didn't want you to be bored. Come on. He had another tweet where he asked the public to let him know what they thought of the fight and it went predictably pretty bad.

Franz Sangano shares the sentiment of one Tom Aspinall. He said this afterwards, outsiders will never win. Trust me, I know. But Rico was the winner tonight, period. head is. Yeah, I think that that's what Francis probably said and that's what a lot of us said. Here's Jake Paul reacting to what transpired.

I mean, that's the most insane shit I've ever seen. Rico winning every round and the moment the refs sees to end it, then he ends it? Are you kidding? I'm the biggest Ussick fan, but bro, you lost that shit. Shout out to Rico for beating his ass every round and getting damn.

He was tweeting up a storm. Eddie Hearn was pretty dismissive of RICO's chances, but afterwards it seemed as though he made a, Rico, that is, made a fan out of Eddie. Here's what he had to say. My thoughts just firstly confirming I'm not a refurb judge, because I'm sure a lot of people came at him. I thought RICO Verhoeven was incredible last night.

I gave him hardly any chance in this fight, his concentration, belief IQ, unbelievable for basically a debutante. Debutton in boxing. It always annoys me when they say debut. Debutton in boxing. This guy is not a debutante. in fighting, and they tend to, like when you say debutante, you're talking about a debutante, in my opinion.

This guy has been under the lights. He's fought in one-night tournaments. Come on now. Shout out to Peter Fury for the game plan. Ussick struggled with the rhythm, but stayed with it and somehow found a way when the greatest upset in boxing history was looming. I had RICO up a couple rounds going into the 11th. Usik did what champions do, but for me, the stoppage was early.

The bell had basically gone, and RICO was defending and knew exactly what. where he was. I do think Usik would have gotten a clear stoppage in the 12th or edged out a decision, but us and how could he have edged out? Maybe with the 10-8, I don't know, I'm bad at math. Rico deserved a chance to let it all unfold. That was fascinating. Well-done, man. Two really great guys, and the work ethic, mindset, and desire is inspiring. So there you have it. Jason Statham, getting all the love for making this fight, and here's what he had to say about the fight. Rico, you did it, brother. An absolute bombshell. How good does Jason Statham? How good does Jason them feel in the aftermath of all of this. He's like, yeah, man, you all laughed at me, and look at this

fight. A bombshell performance robbed of the chance to finish a diabolical. What a great word. Stoppage at the bell before the final round itself. Respect to Ussic, as he is, without a doubt, one of the greatest fighters of all time. But last night was your night, brother. You killed it and know it saw it coming. A massive thank you to his excellency, Turkey Al-Shake for putting on this major spectacle at the pyramids of Egypt. Without you, these fights don't happen. So how about that? Yes. shout out. We told you about Glory saying Justice for Rico, which I thought was very nice

on their part. And the scene was really great. There's no doubt about that. They had all kinds of photo shoots. They had Terrence Crawford out there. Canello was out there. Look at these guys here. Shiraz,

AJ, Usick, Canello, Mbili, Crawford, Rico. You all see them, though. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. And the setup, in case you missed it, was phenomenal. Look at this setup.

It looked great. It looked amazing. Yeah, it's pretty damn cool. That's a once-in-a-lifetime event. I'd love to know what it costs. Puts the White House to shame. No, I'm just kidding. White House is coming together, my friends.

White House is coming together. There's all kinds of pictures floating around. They're starting to do the bill. There it is. Dan-na-na-nan-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-na-na-d-da-na-d-da-na-d-d-d-na-d-d-d-dana-dana-d-d-d-ddd. Oh, look at this. Wow. This is what?

What is this? What are we looking at? I believe that's the ellipse, the rendering of what may be the fan fest will be? It's called the ellipse because it's shaped like an ellipse. Isn't an ellipse like the dot-dot? No. Oh, yes. That's an ellipses.

Ah. This is an oval shape. Yeah, it looks cool. Dana White getting all kinds of love for this event. He was on the cover of Time magazine. Now, is this the digital cover or is this the actual physical magazine? It's a good question. I'd like to pick one up at Newsstands.

How Dana White took the UFC from the fringes to the White House. What's up with his mouth in this picture? Who gives it shit. Yeah, you're right. Speaking of Newsstands, did you guys happen to pick up the New York Post this morning? I did. I'm going to need that back after the show. Yeah.

Did you happen to get two by new shots? That was the last one left. Fold it up. Well, he folded it first. That's going to put this right here. That's fucking illegal. There's nothing like a newspaper, right? There's nothing like a newspaper, right?

It's something else. Dana also in Rolling Stone. Is Dana getting more attention for this than any fighter on the card? Did you just read Ben Folks' tweet? Oh, really? No, I didn't. I didn't see his... Ben Folks said...

Well, it's on X. It's not on Blue Sky for anyone looking for Ben Folks as a post. He said that it seems that Dana's getting more promotion and hype than Ilya to Poria. Alex Pereira. Yeah. Wait, when did he tweet that? Maybe an hour ago. Oh, okay.

Look at this. Oh, it says 250 on there. It's the 250 bill, but it's in black and white. Stop. Listen, if I was Felicia Spencer and Amanda Nunes, I'd be pretty pissed about this right now. Like, I headlined UFC 250, all right? Stop calling this 250. Yeah, let's have Felicia Spencer trying to call Dana White.

Give me a fucking break. That she is. Hello, Dana. This is Felicia. I headline UFC. Who? At the apex. Shut the fuck up and watch the fights.

Way back in 2020. I'm not sure if you remember me. Guys, we spoke about the Knicks. We do have to get this out of the way. I mean, I was not a believer. I'll be the first to admit in the Danhausen curse, uncurse. But this MF right here, he's done it. I'm a very spiritual.

person, and I believe he has done something. He has uncursed the Nix. That has been documented. He cursed the calves. He's got his own Nix uncursed co-lab. This guy doesn't miss. He's unbelievable. He uncursed Tottenham as well. We're giving him credit for that one. Here's Nathan Fraser saying that he had to pay a lot of human money just to make this happen. Congratulations. And yesterday, I told him thank you and please keep going and he sent me this. It's unbelievable. How did this happen? Rick, do you fault Danhausen in any way, shape, or form?

No, not at all. I would never dare, like, question Danhausen because I do not want to be cursed. I believe in that stuff. I tried to explain it to my kids. They're like, what do you mean? I'm like, no, no, no. For wrestling, you tried to explain? I tried to explain this guy and how he may be responsible for the greatest moment in our lives.

I'm sure that went well with that. He better be on that damn float if they went, I tell you that much. He better be on that float. Now, Jalen Brunson was asked about this, and he's a big wrestling guy, and he sort of no-sold it, as they say in the business?

Here's what he had to say. Jalen, you guys are playing great team basketball right now on a nine-game win streak, but I'm a little bit curious. You are a bit of a wrestling fan. There is someone else that's kind of trying to take some credit for this at the moment.

I am curious about your thoughts about this entire Dan Howleson situation. I honestly don't know too much about it, I've been off of social media. So I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that. Cap or no cap there? As my toys fall in the middle of that.

Pre cap. Mega cap. He's such a WWE fan. There's no way. He knows about it. Even if he's not on social media, so one of his friends. Him and Dan hasn't are texting about it,

guaranteed. You think so? Oh, yeah. Man. He 100% knows. Do you believe it when these guys say they're off social media? No. I don't believe it either.

I believe they're not posted. That's not. Did he have to no sell it? Yes, it's cooler that he no-sold it. You're looking up if he's posted anything? Hasn't he been posting all throughout? I don't know if he has to be. You know who is posting?

Maybe it's like you don't want to acknowledge the thing because then it curses the curse, you know? It's very superstitious. Posted on May 12th. I mean, it's possible that he has someone posted for him. Dennis Schrooter was on social media all series. What was up with that? Just kept posting the scene of school.

01, 02. The series scorer is great. What was up with that? He's got a good. Cavs are they've had a great bunch. Did you see his record

in conference finals? Dennis Schrooter? I'm sure it's shit. Yeah, I mean he played for the Hawks. No, he's like not won a game. Yeah, he's played for some bad teams.

He's Dennis Schrooter. Shout out to Dennis Schroeder, man. Hawks Legend. Yeah, Hawks Legend. Oh and 4 with the Hawks in the conference finals. We did tell you about the PFL van. Patrick Habirora, superstar. He's going to be joining us tomorrow.

Could we talk about the Joe Schilling fight? What the hell happened in this Joe Schilling fight? So Joe Schilling is fighting. He's back in MMA. We spoke about this. We sort of stumbled upon this. And here he is fighting. And there's a headbut.

And there's Mike Beltran. He's pissed off. I mean, it was a headbut. And then they restart the fight. And he's like, nah, man, F you. Why am I doing this? I'm out. He just said he's out.

No, man, I'm out. So I guess he didn't like the fact that they restarted, that Beltran restarted it in the same spot. He wanted them... No, not in the same spot. He gave him an overhug... I had to see the clip again. He gave him an overhook or an underhook

or some kind of advancement in the position that he's just like, this was not where this was. So I understand his frustration. Can't they look at replay for that? just to get a right? I mean, they look at it for other things. I'm sure they can, but I think Joe was just done with this fight at that point.

I never seen that before, to be honest. He's like, no, man. The dude just headbutted me and then it's like we're doing this whole shit. Aren't they only like 37 seconds then? He was done with the shenanigans. Yeah, this is over. I don't blame him. Shout out Joe. I mean, it is kind of crazy to do that, no?

What, to just walk out? Yes. But I guess... No more business to be done. All right. There was all kinds of chaos at the PFL event. They had a whole melee at the Wayans. Poor Dan Hardy got in the mix.

Look at Dan in the mix here. Dude's ripped right here. Sort of looks like Garmin. We appreciate the sound effects. Look this right here. Oh, a kick. Oh! Dan checks.

The glasses. All okay. Splits. Oh! But that actually sounded like the drop, Frank. There's so many sounds like. sound effects happening right now. Oh.

Oh! It sounds the same. Oh, here it is from here. What is he wearing? Meta-glasses? Yeah. It doesn't quite tell the story same way.

Yeah, what happened there? Here we go. Now we get into it. Oh, this is nuts. Well, there you have it. Insanity in Belgium. Look at that shot right there. Beautiful form.

Look at the dude who's got his head-taxed him over there. Yeah. Shout to the social media guy, unfazed in the back over there. Yeah, almost like too unbothered for being honest. Let me just zoom in here real quick to get a good shot. It actually does look like he's actively hitting a zoom in. Yeah.

Let me get that angle. The lighting isn't too great. Guys, Connor McGregor is coming back on July 11th, and he has done an interview for, I guess, his new, what is it, his new energy drink, Mac Energy? Before we get to that, he did post this on social media. Thank you for all the love, support, and encouragement over the last few days, people. I'm feeling very energized, entering intense training camp because of it.

I'm very grateful for the team I have around me, my coaches and training partners. We are all fully tuned in for the challenge at hand, and it is a glorious time in our gym. So I've seen an incredible snapshot of sparring, long-term. training partner. I'm better than ever. I relish the opportunity to once again show my mastery in martial arts to the world. Lord Jesus in your name, please to inspire the next generation to come. Amen. And so he did an interview. He did an interview with the guy who took out Osama bin Laden, right? Who says he did, yeah. Yeah, what's his name of this guy? He gave him the glove. You guys know what I'm talking about, right? He says did.

Why? Is there a conspiracy about that? You know, it's, it's, these are not. things where it's just like, yeah, there was the guy, you know, doesn't, doesn't, anyway, he didn't interview with him, and he gave him the glove. You saw that? I saw it. I had no idea. This was SEAL Team 6 guy. This is the dude.

The guy that took out Osama. Yes, and he said, he says, I have two gloves, left hand, right hand, I'm keeping the right, you're getting the left. Anyway, here's what Connor McGregor had to say to this gentleman about, you know, yes, yes, about coming. Coming back, the Holloway fight, etc. The big fight is going. Let's cheers to Duffalo.

The Macca's back, baby. Let's go. It's like a musical. A music, music to my ears, it is. Rob, you know, I'm out so long. Five years. My buddy's fresh. My mind is sharp.

I'm ready to come back. I've got a great opponent. I've got a great deal of the UFC. I'm very, very happy. They honored me finally. Oh, yeah. And say, so July 11th. And the opponent is a man that I have beaten before in Max Holloway.

So he is an established fighter, an accomplished fighter, an accomplished fighter, former UFC world champion, multiple time. So this is a quality opponent. Indeed. And our last bout was martial arts mastery by yours truly. So I plan on doing it again. I plan on showing my growth and my improvements in there. So I'm very, very excited for it.

Preparation is going very well. We're living, breathing, and sleeping in the gym. Literally, I live in the gym. I have a base here, and I have a base in my coach John's gym. And I go between them both. So training's going very, very well. He's wearing the glove in the interview over there, just for the record. This is after he was gifted the glove.

Most interesting to me is he says, you know, they finally showed me the respect that I deserve. So it seems like he's happy. As I've said, two fights left. And this is a big one. Got to look good in this one, get the last one, and then see where everything lies. Now, here's Max Holloway saying. I think he said he's known about this for quite some time. I mean, we've been talking about it quite some time.

Max wasn't the issue, obviously. They had to, you know, they had to get Connor, signed sealed and delivered, figure out the paper viewpoints and all that. Here's Max commenting on the fight. First stream since the announcement. You guys know how hard it is? How hard it is to keep that fight under wraps

for how long we did? We knew that fight for a minute, bro. Glad it's coming through, you know? Well, we see, though. We see how it goes July 11th. You think his mic skills is gonna do this be the same? Of course his mics. Why wouldn't his mic skills?

Mike skills be the same. Why wouldn't it be, boys? Oh yeah, I'm excited. Brother, I get to eat during all of, all of camps. I get to eat what I want to eat, boys. Imagine I miss waited 170? Holy shit. The fuck what I doing.

What the hell am I doing, you know? Oh. Every fight is a hard fight, bro. Connor's still dangerous, bro. You'd be dumb as hell to think he's not. Now, as you may recall, last weekend, two weekends ago, Dana White announced the news of Conner's return, not with a promo, not with an interview, not with any cool graphic. It was on an IG live. And it was at the exact same time that Francis Ngano was walking out. Well, the great Fred Beck of Fred Loves Fighting asked Dana White at the apex. He was there for the brand risks show about the timing. And here's what Dana White had to say. What's the timing for that announcement, a coincidence with anything going on? Not a coincidence. I had a fucking fight here that night.

Anybody who thinks that I gave a shit what was going on anywhere else is out of their fucking minds. Just had a check, Dan. It's out of a check. Awesome. He announced it as soon as we got it done, and we were in the middle of our event. Yeah. Give a fuck what those guys are doing. You kidding me? We haven't seen that kind of fire from him, and usually that would suggest that someone is a little bit defensive. Maybe he doesn't like the insinuation, and that's totally fine. I would counter and say, when's the last time he's made an announcement of that stature via IG live in the middle of one of their events? They're literally on TV. A network that is paying

them a billion dollars is literally having an event, and they didn't announce it there. He announced it on IG Live. Now, as I've said in the past, they have a deal with meta. I can guarantee you that deal isn't as big as the Paramount deal. And so if I'm Paramount, I'm like, if in fact this did happen right then and there, why don't you just go and tell one of the broadcasters to do it, you know, coming out of a commercial break or before a fight? To be clear, I don't believe him for a second. You're telling me that it just so happened to be just as Francis Ngano was walking out and it just so happened to be while there was another show going on. You're telling me, if there wasn't an MVP show on Netflix and Francis and Gunna wasn't fighting,

you're announcing it in that moment on IG Live during one of your cards? There's just no way. Like, is anyone dumb enough to believe that? Do you guys believe that in the back? Nope, not even a little bit. I don't even know. Doesn't make any sense. Why not just, like, why pretend like that's not a thing?

I've long wondered why Dana White blatantly lies on some of these things that just don't require it. Just be like, yeah, I wanted to F with them. Yeah, I was fucking with them. I guess that's the acknowledgement that he doesn't want to make, even though the real acknowledgment. But it does the opposite. It's like the cover up is worse than the crime. You know, like, why? Why go to these links to lie about it? Just be like, yeah, what'd you think of that? You know? If Eddie Hearn was standing there, what do you think his reaction would be if asked that question? You'd be like, I was messing with him. It's bans. It's good fun. Don't you love it? It's just weird. I don't even understand what the motivation is. because it's so transparent. Yeah, bizarre. Truly bizarre. I said I was a little fired up

at the beginning of the show. I want to make something clear about the brand risk thing. I have no beef because I'm sure it's going to get clipped off and all this stuff. I have no beef with Aidan whatsoever. I think what he's built for himself

is incredible. It's nothing short of amazing. I've said this a million times about the streamers. My cup of tea? No, not necessarily. Hate on them? No.

Do your thing. That's where kids are gravitating towards there's clearly money to be made, there's clearly like a game plan there, there's clearly a blueprint, I should say. It all works. And the fact that he's doing this, like, God bless, good for him. I've seen videos of him talking about like,

hey, there was once a time where, you know, I had nothing or no one's watching me and I guarantee you, like it takes a lot of work to make it to that point, to get to that point, to get people to watch you, to get people to care about you. So no hate whatsoever. It was more about the,

And people put on these crazy influencer shows like, God, get paid, whatever. It was more the hypocrisy of a week prior hearing Mark Shapiro say that the MVP card on Netflix set the sport back. And now the UFC is essentially backing this brand of fighting. Like what's more detrimental to the sport of MMA? Ronda Rousey submitting Gina Carrano via Arm Bar in 17 seconds like she did while in the UFC or that. Dana White's there. Hunter Campbell's there, and they're, like, laughing about this. It's happening at the apex, and it's their sport that's on display.

And so it was the hypocrisy of it happening seven days later. Here's Hunter Campbell doing an interview, a rare interview afterwards, saying why he likes brand risk and why he doesn't like the other forms of influencer fighting. As we're with Hunter Campbell, Hunter, you lent the UFC Apex to Aiden and Brer's, how is the whole experience? It was incredible. I'm proud of Bob Bennery, man. I was bugging him about showing up. I can't believe he actually made the walk.

it takes, listen man, it's not as easy to make that walk as people think it is. The fact that he did it and fought a pro athlete, like, I'm stunned. So I'm proud of Bob. Are you a fan of this whole world of the crossover influencer boxing, athlete boxing? I said this last time when we did the other stream with Aden. I like when it's authentic. Like, this isn't trying to pretend it's something that it's not, right? So it's not people who are influencers who are trying to pretend they're pro athletes or pro fighters or whatever.

It's exactly what it is and it's a great experience. and it's fun, man. The energy in here was incredible. So fun. I like the little people fight, man. The little people fight. Those are real guys. Real guys.

That was a real fight. A lot of judo in there. Incredible. I'm telling you, I had a great time. It was fun. Jeremy Smith is six and a arm barrisk. He's going to come back. You got to keep him back, man.

Thank you. Did you guys watch? No, I saw the clips. Oh, yeah, I saw the highlights. What did you think of it, G. It is what it is. I mean, we talked about it on Thursday going into the weekend. Like, it's a circus.

It's a, it's a circus. clown show. You have Ray J up there and going against super hot fire. Like, what do you think you're getting into? It is what it is. Also, like, Ray J getting knocked out and then, like, talking to Aden, and being like, yo, we took a big L the night. What the fuck was that? It's a people saying it might have been fixed. Sure. He insinuated that there was an agreement. Agreement, yeah. He got knocked out bad. But I want to make something very, very clear. I'm not, like, I couldn't care less about Brandon was. God bless there's a million crazy shows out there. But it's this. But it's This, it's very clearly like veiled shots at other people.

And you're, even though they may not be paying or backing it or anything like that, you are attaching yourself to it. You are endorsing. You're endorsing. You're endorsing it. You're endorsing it. You're endorsing it. Yeah.

You're endorsing it while saying like this. I like this because it's authentic. Like what are you talking about? And then a week prior, the, the president of your company is saying, of TKO, the parent company is saying, that set the sport back. Come on. The one I don't believe is that one, though. I don't believe that they believe it set the sport back.

I believe more that they are willing to do business and happy to do business with brand risk. I don't believe what Hunter said either. I think they... Of course. What did he say? It was authentic, that he loves it, that it's genuine. Oh, that like he's like into it. Yeah, maybe not.

Here's the thing. We've heard these guys say, we don't do this type of thing. We don't do freak shows. And again, I know it wasn't a UFC show, but they're endorsing it. So clearly you have an interest in it. Clearly, you're not against it. because you let it come to your show, to your headquarters,

and you, we're on the broadcast. When do we see Dana and Hunter do that sort of thing? I think they think it's great. It's good to be with the young kids. Oh, Aden's cool. They think it's good for the brand, so to speak. Bob Menry's back, man.

What is, what is? Who is Bob Menry? He's the voiceover sports guy. He does the, like, goofy sports. Who's in Roadhouse? This, this grand risk? The one with Connor? Yeah.

He was? Yeah. Who was? He was like a side character He's not like a full send guy He was I think it won't point He was in the middle split

That's when Dana White got into the drama And that's why he doesn't like him This feels like the early days of misfits That's what this feels like And I thought we left this all behind This is worse man Sure but it's like the porn stars Fight like this is what misfits used to do

But like no one was even in shape Like at least most of those guys on the Miffiths card Like they come ripped But you know that they're on juice and stuff No To me this was more like Barstool puts on Rough and Rout. That's exactly what it was.

And again, I have no issues with it. People seem to like their characters. Yeah, but Ruff and Routy is rindos. These guys endorsing it while shitting on others is the ultimate hypocrite move. Is it not? It is. It is. I just don't think they're genuine.

It says it's a coincidence that they release the news of their biggest fighter returning when Francis Inganu is making his walk out. You're right. You're right. You're right. Strickland was there, too. Okay, so what do you?

Okay, so I'd like to hear you guys first. Strickland's there. He's on the broadcast. Yeah. And then at some point, I don't know if he left when it was over. He's on there for a good amount of time. He's saying all kinds of things, right? And then he does the thing where he's talking into the phone and says, I'm embarrassed. I'm ashamed. That's the lowest of the low. I shouldn't have done that. Da-da-da-da-da-da. What do you make of that, Rick, when you see that? There's something genuine in there, right? There is something of him that was probably embarrassed to be there.

and he had somehow gotten convinced maybe Nina or somebody else or even, you know, the UFC or somebody else associated with it had convinced him to kind of do it. And then he was doing it and at some point was kind of like, what am I doing? But it's just like I don't know that this is any more embarrassing than anything else. Like it's just, quite frankly, I feel like he feels at home there. I don't know if I'm like, Sean Strickland feels out of place at a brand risk event. I'm being honest. It feels very much kind of where I'd find him. I just don't understand what he thought he was getting into.

Yeah. Do you think it was going to be like the highest level of fighting? Well, he said like, I like you, Aidan Ross. He was there for quite some time. He says, I like you, Aden Ross, but that was the most embarrassing thing I've ever done, and I feel like less of a man because of it. You think that's true.

That's the most embarrassing thing he's ever done. That's my point. Yeah, no, I know, but like that in its own right, to me, it feels like a microcosm of what I said a couple weeks ago. Do something outlandish. There's consequences, whatever, maybe some blowback. You see the blowback or not. And then you quickly say, ah, you know, nah, that wasn't me. I wasn't really into that. I'd like to apologize. And then try to, you know, absolve yourself from any sort of. And then so people then come out and be like, man, good for you, man. well done that that shows growth that shows like maturity no you knew exactly what that was going into it

you knew exactly what it was during it and then you try to like wash your hands of it and then you you're sort of playing both sides people love you when you're on it they laugh they chuckle hey man he's so much fun he he he makes these crazy statements and then you try to wash your hands of it in the aftermath doesn't work that way you can't really do that if to me it felt like deja vu of two weeks ago and of course me saying this is going to get all his fans so but hurt like oh my God, how dare you? But like, man, I saw you're on it. All right, yeah, this seems like the type of thing that Sean Strickland would do. It seems like it, by the way, Armin was there, Marab was there, Rampage was there. That's no indictment on him per se. But then he's the only one in

the aftermath who's like, nah, that was not for me. I want nothing to do with that. How many more times are we going to hear him say that he wants nothing to do with the streamers and all this stuff and then continue to do stuff with the streamers? Or how about the fact that he says, I want nothing to do with the White House card and then immediately after winning says I want to go to the White House card. Do you understand what I'm saying? He's playing you on both sides every time. And so

you just pick and choose what you're going to back, what you're going to be okay with, and what you're not going to be okay with, and then you'll ignore the other part. And he knows this, and it's working perfectly. Every single step, he'll say one thing and then he'll say the opposite thing. And it works perfectly. I guess it's no

different than Dana and them. You guys know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. There's a huge contradiction. Yeah, there's a classic contradiction, for sure. Rampage saw Dana.

It was a very awkward catch-up. I equated it to, you know, two people who used to be in a relationship being like, yeah, cool, good to see you doing some good stuff, but very much not fans of each other. Here's the interaction. How you doing?

How you doing? Everything good? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love it, man. I get to be a big head. You always have the personality for that shit. Yeah.

Yeah, man. I love it. It's great. It's great. Chamsa Chimaev called out Sean Strickland. So I guess they're back to hating each other now? I don't know. I'm waiting.

Tell me when you're ready, Sean Strickland. Next time somebody has to be dead. Are people going to fall for this again? Do you remember when Frank Mears said that to Brock Lesson? listener. Anyway, here's Nasr Dene Imov, weighing in, no happy endings, nowhere left to run. What does he mean by that, the happy endings? Anyone know? Who's to check? Yeah, who is to check? Never heard that phrase before, so I'm not sure. What about Benoit Saint-Denie? He was celebrated at a French soccer game. Did you guys see this? Ben-Wa-Saint-D-N-Ey out there. Yeah, look at him.

About to fight Patty Pimbleat, Loving Life, BSD. like one of them soccer players, right? Yeah, look at that. Right in the center of the pitch. Tremendous. There is a fight this weekend, by the way. It's Song Yudong against Davidson Figurado, and it's going down to Macau. They did have a face-off. Here they are. Sort of flying under the radar, this one. Important fight at 135. There's a young fighter named Xi Ming, who is fighting on a road to UFC event, and she had probably the greatest fight announcement of all Take a look. Hello!

Got a fight announcement. I will be fight at the end of this month in Macau. Super excited. This time I have a questionable honor of breaking the world record for the most road to UFC fights. Oh, awkward. I don't know what's going on with UFC, but it's like groundhog day or over again. Anyway, I heard my opponent is from India, so I'm just imagining Dengar versus Chinese Kung Fu movies.

It's gonna be funny. You know, Army and Haversus Jackie Chan. Let's go. That was incredible. She's my new favorite fighter. That was amazing. I like what she said. She had the awkward, what did she say?

She had the awkward distinction or something like that from being on the most road to UFC cards. You all see them, though. Yeah, hell yeah. Want to give a big shout out to Themba Garimbo, who, announced his retirement from the sport, had a lengthy statement on social media. He's officially retired from MMA. I did reach out to him and ask him about that, and he just said he felt like it was time. He'd like to do some other things.

He posted a big thank you to everyone involved, especially the UFC, and also to Dwayne the Rock Johnson, who certainly did a lot for him and helped put him on the map. So here he is with DJ. There's the statement. There's no way I can read all of that just because I don't have my glasses. on. But trust me, it is worth seeing, and he's one of the good guys, and we do wish him the best, proudly representing his home country of Zimbabwe. Mentioned Darren Till, influencer boxing.

He's back also this weekend. So we've got all kinds of fun this weekend. Check out the abs on old Darren Till. Keep my fucking name out your mouth. Nah, Darren, we've never seen anything like this. We don't care. Yeah. No commentary needed. That was incredible.

Okay, let's go to some super chats, Frank. I'm going to get to the other stuff tomorrow. We do have a hard out today due to personal reasons. So I want to get the super chats in, and maybe I'll squeeze in a couple of news and notes on the back end. Here's Sammy J6Z3S who says, Ariel, your reasons for not acknowledging my super chat, giving you praise when Frank read it out.

When you guys were in L.A., it's never about the money, but I did pay 100 S.S.E.K. Wait a second. Let me interject on this one. Sammy's our guy. Yeah, Sammy is our guy. and I thought we read and responded appropriately. You kind of made a bit out of it because he was just basically saying ignore all the haters,

keep doing what you guys are doing. Damn, damn, damn. So Sammy, we thought we acknowledged it. We kind of made a joke, but not at the expense of your thing. We apologize. Hell yeah, we love Sammy. I am sorry. Sammy's the man.

We love Sam. Yeah, we love Sammy. I'm really sorry. Peace and love, peace and love. I'd love to, I don't know. Could we give him a hug or something? Here we go. Here's a big hug.

J-Waw-2387. Nix could probably beat the Mets in baseball right now. I don't know anything about that. Let's just focus on the next four. Here's Hanashi M.MA who says, Ricky, boys in the hood. I know the reference, but why on today's program? For me?

Oh. I don't know. Well, we still love you and we were waiting for you. Was that in question? I didn't know that was up for... No, but we're waiting for you. Come on. Have some fun with us.

Not a fan. Two more weeks. Not my team. Buck Dutter, 96. Why do you always say pot of bends to the Brazilians? What the F is a pot of bends? Is this short for Benjamin? So like a pot of money?

Have I ever said pot of bends before? I don't recall ever said. He's saying paraben. Pot of bends. He's saying parabins. It's an R. No, he's saying potter bends. As you say to all the Brazilians,

Pot of Benz. thinks you're saying Pada Benz What is Buck Potter? Pottabins, pataboons. Buck Nutter 96. Pottabins means congratulations. Buck Dutter.

Dutter. Dutter. Dutter. Duck butter. What else, Frankie? What else? Did any of y'all see the clip of UFC champ Sean Strickland say,

oh, the N-word on commentary during that influencer event at the apex repercussions? No, he didn't mean it, man. It just kind of slipped out. He just, he echoed what a fighter said in the ring. What does that mean?

He echoed. the guy said it and he literally repeated what he said verbatim he was like laughing at what he was saying the guy said it he repeated what he heard verbatim okay does that make it okay i think frank man shut the fuck it doesn't make it okay he's it's it's but also that is i guess that is the environment that's what you expect right brand risk is supposed to be this kind of thing to be clear i'm not offended by any of this other people may be offended by any of it i just think the thing of like i'm gonna do it i'm gonna go out there, I'm gonna get all crazy, and then two seconds later be like, nah, I didn't really mean

that is... But he unequivocally shouldn't have said it. There's no reason to say it. Absolutely. I didn't see it. I saw people tweeting about it, but didn't care enough to click on it. What will it take for an MMA fighter to beat a boxer? Everything is against them. RICO is the people's champ. Yeah, and he's a

kickboxing the best base. Izzy, Alex, Dumbay, whom else? Who else? Mr. Rico. Looks like Lesner. This is from Jake from the Windy City. You know what?

Jake from the Windy City. Talk about both sides. I've seen Jake on other channels talking smack guys. You know I always give Jake props? What did he say? Was very surprised to see Jake. Mr. Benedict Arnold himself.

Looks like Lester pulled a mark and now out of nowhere a month after Mania made that whole leaving gloves in the ring pointless. Yeah, that was whack. He's back. And they're doing the Oba rematch this weekend and then probably again in the summer.

Ariel single-handedly brought AEW to the 514 in July. Yeah, guys, AWAC coming to Montreal in July. Oh, big. You going to go? I didn't get time. We need to talk about your experience tomorrow. Tomorrow might be supersized. I just want to let you know because we didn't do Monday

and we have so much that we missed on. But we'll get to your experience tomorrow. How far away from a title shot is Mansell? Oh, brand risk over MVP is tremendous. What else, Frankie? What else? Uncrown needs to rent the apex for a fun show. What do you think they charge us for that?

I don't think they let us in. No. I mean, me and Connor, yeah, we're good. But I don't know if you're getting in there. And finally, this is tremendous. From Raging Crosan 3-947 from New York Rick to New York Nick. We are the New York Knicks. No.

We are the New York Knicks. Say, go, New York, go, New York. Go, New York. But Steph can't do it, huh? Just you. I'm surprised you're not cheering for the. for the Knicks to win. By the way, that's certified

hater right there. Your team's out. You got a root for us. It's a city we live in. It's fun. Bro. It's whack. Anyway, plenty more

Knicks talk to come. For now, though, we are done. Tomorrow on the program, guys, Patrick Habirora, Holly Home, Adam Azeem, and Colby Covington

in what I do believe is his first interview since leaving the UFC. He's going to be on that May 30th card this weekend, RAF show. I believe RAF 9, Gable Steveson making his debut, he's going up against Chris Wybman. There's an Armin-Saurukian match on there as well.

There's a lot. There's a lot happening this weekend, guys. There's the UFC, there's the boxer card, there's the MVP card, there's this card that I just mentioned, the RAF card. There's a lot happening, my friends. There's a lot happening. And so we will get to more news and notes tomorrow.

Not the best timing to have a shorter show. And yes, in our world, a three and a half hour show is a shorter show. But it is imperative that I be off at 4.30. It's actually 429 and 51 seconds. What do I do about that, by the way? It's tough. Yeah, that is tough. And so them's the brakes.

That's how it goes, guys. That's how it goes in the business. this. But I'll get to everything tomorrow and we'll have more time. And also on the noses tomorrow. So go to Ariahawani.substack.com to leave your questions and comments regarding on the nose. Thank you very much to Hamza Shiraz. Thank you very much to Rico Verhoeven. Thank you very much to Peter Fury. Thank you very much to Ben Shalom. Thank you very much, James Dolan, greatest owner in sports. Thank you very much, Leon Rose. Thank you, Jalen Brunson, Mikhail Bridges, Mike Brown, O. O. G. Ninovi, Carl Anthony Towns, Josh Hart.

Thanks to you, thanks to them back tomorrow, same time, this is a piece of everybody.