The Ariel Helwani Show - Robert Whittaker, AJ McKee, Bruce 'Shu Shu' Carrington in studio, Ateba Gautier, reaction to Renato Moicano rejecting UFC settlement money

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

Ariel Helwani and the Boys in the Back are back and start by reacting to Daniel Dubois' controversial fight-day gathering (08:46).Robert Whittaker joins before his headliner in Abu Dhabi against the streaking Reinier de Ridder to discuss his dream retirement fight, having his sixth kid, Dricus du Plessis vs. Khamzat Chimaev, Australia’s UFC takeover, sparring Tim Tszyu and Jai Opetaia, and more (16:20).Bruce "Shu Shu" Carrington stops by in-studio to preview his match against Mateus Heita for the vacant WBC interim featherweight title. He tells Ariel about his start in boxing, being mentored by Mike Tyson, Top Rank’s next move, his desire to fight Inoue, Jake Paul, and more (45:04).Ateba Gautier, UFC middleweight contender coming off of a bonus-winning knockout at UFC 318, joins to discuss his unreal punching power, comparisons to fellow Cameroonian Francis Ngannou, looking up to Lerone Murphy, street fights before MMA, and more (1:33:47).AJ McKee returns following his win at PFL Africa and shares his thoughts on fighting at featherweight, rebounding after a loss, his Zulu-inspired outfit, PFL’s lacking American product, retiring at 35, changing his mindset, and more (1:58:00).Ariel closes the show with a tribute to the late, great Ozzy Osbourne and his reaction to the back-and-forth between Renato Moicano and Brendan Schaub over Moicano rejecting the UFC's settlement money (2:31:23).

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Err-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r- And 25. Hello. I sure hope you're doing well. It was great to be here on a lovely summer Tuesday in New York City following a very, very, very, very entertaining, if I do say so myself, post pay-per-view Monday, what a show it was, what a show it was, an extra long show, it was an old school show when Rick and I used to do the MMA after hour who was around back then if you were around during the MMA

after hour years give yourself a thumbs up in the chat give yourself a W a W in the chat Frank certainly wasn't there we were doing that when Frank was in his father's nutsack right Frank that's right yeah Yeah. Those were the days, 2016, 2017. I mean, we would go to like 730 back then. How about if you type in MMA After Hours on Google, the AI overview. The MMA After Hours is a popular podcast focused on mixed martial arts hosted by

Ariel Hawhani and Eric Jackman. Yeah. You can watch a video about the MMA After Hours podcast with guests like Rick Spicks. Yes, Rick Spicks was in there. By the way did they say MMA after hours or after hour? It calls it MMA after hours at one point and then it calls it the MMA after hour. It's a twofer. What about Crust First? If you

put in like Crust First. Crust First got a shout out on the watch party on Saturday. Yeah but like if you put it in there does it. Oh here we go. Does it come up? Crust First MMA show. Because Crust First got a shout out on the watch party on Saturday. Yeah, but like if you put it in there, does it? Oh, here we go. Does it come up? Crust First MMA show? Because Crust First was essentially the evolution of the MMA After Hour. That's like your cold pizza? Well, it was like, basically the thought was

he would come on post show and instead of calling it the MMA After Hour, we would say, everyone loves us so much, it's like the people who like to eat their pizza, Crust First. Oh, okay. It's the people who like to eat their pizza crust first. It's the end, but people consume it at the beginning. Nothing for crust first. This was not an official franchise.

A little too generic. We didn't really brand it. Those were the days, by the way, where Rick wasn't even an employee. Rick was just showing up, hoping, hoping that he would get the nod. Not quite, I was working on it. That was when the, I'm not gonna get paid for this,

and then Rick goes, you get paid? Yeah, yeah. And he actually meant it. I'll never forget, first show at ESPN, June, I think it might've been like 26, might've been 24th, my mom's birthday, somewhere in that vicinity, because we started I think on the 14th, 2018,

first show, I'm looking around, I'm like, I just, you know, I just need Rick here. Rick's now gone, I just need Rick here. And Rick's now gone. Rick walked out with me. Rick was like Renee Zellweger in Jerry Maguire, you know? I dropped my pencil. Someone needs to make a collage

of all the comparisons Rick gets made to. Rick was, you know, because I just watched it. I just watched it. What'd you say, Frank, in my ear? Shake your left shoulder, your ear piece is on your shoulder. No, I did that on purpose, bro. Get the dirt off my shoulder.

Okay, thank you. Anyway, Rick was like Rene Zellweger when he takes the goldfish, you know? And he shows up and everyone's like, why is this dude here? Dude with the man bun, why is he here? What's he gonna do? We work for ESPN, We know everything about producing. We don't need his help. So I'm like, Rick, just sit in there, okay?

Your presence will be felt. Just sit in there. I'll never forget. We do the show. It was a banger of a show. It was like a 13-guest show. DC was on. Max was on. Ortega was on. Stipe was on. That was the pay-per-view coming up at International Fight Week. And we had them all. It was a great way to start. Problem was, I had all the guests on the first show, I had no one for the second show,

but that was another issue I had to deal with. And I'll never forget Glenn Jacobs, our boss, coming in saying, show was incredible, closes the door behind me, and he goes, how did we figure out how to get Rick here full time? I'm like, yeah, it worked. It was one of the great, just like, it'll figure itself out.

It was one of those moments where you're like, it actually worked, the plan actually worked. I was very excited about that. That was a great day. It was good times. And then I didn't work on the show once I got there full time. Well, six months.

Yeah, first six months. And then you ditched us, high and dry, which is a sign of things to come. Listen, you had on air Jordan, he took the mantle, he became the favorite son and I slid off. Yeah, you did your thing. I forgot about Man Bun Rick. Oh, Man Bun Rick was a vibe.

I miss him. He was at Vox with the Man Bun for a bit. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Shaved the sides, kept it long on top. And then I think once you went to Bristol, it was like, all right. And then I did it one more time. No, he had it momentarily at Vox,

like the second. The return? Yeah, the return. Once I went to Bristol, I did shave it. But then there was one time after that that I grew fully long hair, no shave sides. Like I had long, long hair. When I first met Ricky at a man book.

Oh, post pandemic, post pandemic. Yes, yes. I grew it in the pandemic. Because you lamented the fact that you shaved it. So this was your shot at redemption. It was great. You know what's the best part about all this? We were lamenting, what are we gonna talk about

in the first 15 minutes? You were lamenting. Yeah. I actually, when you said- Who the fuck is we? When you said Frank, what'd you just say in my ear? I thought he accidentally went to your ear because back here he was like,

oh, what are we gonna talk about in the first 15 minutes? Frank, you were mocking me? Yes. There's no such thing as mockery. We had a great show yesterday, guys. We have another great show planned for today. Dustin was phenomenal. Eric Bischoff in studio, AJ France in studio as well.

Who else did we have? Paulo Costa, he was great. Costello Van Stenis, the one and only PFL champion. By the way, this has been confirmed to me. There's only one PFL champion right now. There's only one reigning defending PFL champion and his name is Costello Van Stenis, the Spaniard. Technically Ust-Bandar Magomedov is not a PFL champion. The next time you fight, I'm told it will be for a PFL belt. But as of right now there's one PFL champion. Figure that one out for yourself. Anyway,

today on the program, another great day, a four-pack of guests. We've got back into the show, AJ McKee got back on track with a big win in South Africa this past weekend. Atiba Gautier, the pride of Cameroon, now training at a Manchester, England that is, not New Hampshire. I'm a big fan of this guy and I'm very excited to have him on the program for the first time. Amazingly, he's just 23 and he's, he's smashing through the competition in the UFC thus far. I had a great win this past Saturday in New Orleans.

I wonder if he liked the French over there because he speaks French. I wonder if he liked it or if it was a little too, you know, chaotic for him. In any event, prior to that, we'll be joined by one of the great up and coming boxers in the game, Bruce Shushu Carrington, who is the pride of Brownsville, Brooklyn, who you may have heard, some guy named Mike Tyson, he is from Brownsville as well, among others. A lot of great fighters have come from Brownsville. He's undefeated. He's fighting for the WBC interim featherweight title on Saturday at the theater next door to MSG in what will be the final, final top-rank card on ESPN, which is notable for a couple reasons.

Number one, their run ends on ESPN. I and I think a lot of people would have thought by now we would have found out where they're off to. As of right now, we do not know when the next Top Rank event is happening and we do not know where it's going to be airing. And I find that fascinating. What is going on here? What's going on with Top Rank? One of the legacy brands in combat sports, they don't have a home post-Saturday? What's happening? Now, we're not going to get these answers from Bruce, but I'm excited to talk to him. Last time I spoke to him was in November.

He fought on the Mike Tyson, Jake Paul card. And in about seven minutes time, we're going to be joined by the Reaper, AKA Bobby Knuckles, live from Abu Dhabi, where he headlines the UFC event on ABC, I believe the ninth one, and he's going up against the pride of the Netherlands, René Derrida, coming off his big win over the one and only Bo

Nikkel this past May. So a pretty quick turnaround for RDR. There's your four pack. And of course, on Tuesdays we like to play two. On Tuesdays we play two with Adéola Depot. We'll have the Ariel and Adé program live on the Dazon YouTube channel, live on the Dazon YouTube channel, live on the Dazon app. I hear Mr. Turkey El-Sheikh is a big fan of the program.

And so perhaps he'll be watching today as we speak to Ellie Scotney. And we also speak to the great champion turned trainer of champions, Andy Lee, the pride of Ireland. Speaking of the sweet science, everyone is going crazy over this footage that has emerged of one young Daniel Dubois before his fight against Alexander Usyk on Saturday at Wembley. This is from a comedian slash rapper named Charles Okocha

who said that he was at a house party of sorts for Daniel, put together by his father, by his family, before the fight, before the Wembley show. And this has gotten a lot of people very upset, a lot of people wondering what the hell was going on. Now, Dana Dubois' head trainer, Don Charles, was on TalkSport with the likes of Spencer Jordan and he explained that they did a similar thing, a similar gathering before the AJ fight but it was at Wembley. The vibes are a little bit different when you're at the stadium, when you're at the arena as opposed to a home.

And so he was saying, look it worked that time, now people have a problem with it because we did it again. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But this is a horrible look. The optics aren't good. He's surrounded by all these people. He should be essentially by himself. He should be focused. He shouldn't have to go around taking selfies, shaking people's hands, being bothered before the biggest

fight of his life. He's about to fight the greatest heavyweight of our generation for undisput biggest fight of his life. He's about to fight the greatest heavyweight of our generation for undisputed gold in his country's national stadium, live in front of the world. What is he doing with the likes of Charles O'Cotcha in his house taking selfie videos?

It's absurd. What do you guys think of this? Yeah, you have to just wonder, look, ultimately, do I think that this impacted the fight in a significant way? Probably not. Like, I would pick Usyk to win that fight, no matter the circumstances.

Even if you tell me this ahead of time, I'm going to pick Usyk to win that fight regardless. But you do have to wonder, is this the best version of him because of how many different directions he's potentially being pulled here, right? Like, the details around this and hearing that, you know, it seems like his father was involved in the planning of this.

It makes me wonder. 70 people they said, right? Yeah. It may, well, that's what I heard, um, Simon Jordan on TalkSport saying about, about what he had heard, um, about the party. It does just make me wonder, like, is this the most focused you could be?

Is this the best version of yourself? Ultimately, as I said, I don't look at this and go, Dubov was gonna win, but he blew it because he had this party. I do just wonder, is this what we want to be having our champion doing ahead of the biggest fight of his life,

the opportunity to be undisputed champion of the world? And you also wonder, was it his idea at all? Did he want to do this? Did he care to do this? You hear about the fact that maybe he didn't know everybody who was in attendance. It seems like there's a lot of like murky details around this that only he could really speak to and just based on the the silence around the pullout of the last fight I wonder if we'll ever even get those answers. I don't know. I don't know. Is it much to do about nothing?

Are we going crazy over a 60 second clip? It's something. I don't know, I don't know. I think the result has a lot to do with it as well. If he wins people aren't talking about it as much, that's his pre-fight thing, but the fact that he got knocked out in the way that he did. But it was a 60 second clip.

Like what do we, like how long was he actually there for? I think how did I saw on Twitter was talking about how they couldn't believe how late he arrived to the arena. Yeah. One second is too long in my opinion. Now I'm not saying that from the perspective of like Shane Mondaniel, I'm saying that from the perspective of like whoever conceived of this, whatever, whoever's idea this was, one second is too long. He should not have been there. Also the juxtaposition, so what Oleksandr Usyk is doing pre-fight.

Sure. Sitting in the locker room. Yeah. Sets up the Ukrainian flag. He's got the Eeyore from his daughter. He's reading the Bible. It's true. He's calm, he's by himself.

He's getting focused, he's getting locked in. How could they have thought this was a good idea? That's the thing. Whose idea was it and how could they have thought this was a good idea? It's the thing. Whose idea was it and how could they have thought this was a good idea? It's one thing if everybody else is having a party and it's like, we're celebrating Daniel, great. Fantastic, I love that idea, that sounds amazing.

You should all be very proud of what Daniel's been able to accomplish to this point and what he was potentially going to accomplish on that night. But he cannot be there, it just makes no sense. Also the one for the AJ fight, they said it was at Wembley, correct? Yeah. That's also another thing.

You're in the locker room, everyone's like getting you pumped up, you're hyped and ready to go. And then it's like, all right, everybody out, it's time to lock in. Yeah. Whereas like here you're at someone's house. It's just like, man, you gotta be locked in.

You gotta be focused for this thing. I feel bad for Daniel because it doesn't seem like something he would want to do. Even that one clip, which again, is just a short snippet of the day or the event or whatever the hell you wanna call it, the party, the gathering, the get together. It looks like he's a deer in headlights.

It looks like he's enjoying it, but like what exactly, I don't know. He definitely did not plan this. Like it wasn't like it was his idea to throw this. But it is also wild how many people are like, oh, let me get a picture, let me get a video, let me post it on social media. You know, I see deer in headlights.

It looks like he's having a pretty good time in that clip right there, you know? Is that as long as the clip is? Is there more to it or does it end right there? That's it, huh? The clip I grabbed from it shows this Charles, he's filming himself like outside by cars. There's no Daniel there So it's it's hard to tell when Daniel arrives and when he leaves like you said

So if there was a party and he showed up for two three minutes, is it that big of a deal? Yes Yeah, you should not be there. Why what if the gesture is only? Token right if it's not for him to be there and actually like be there, then don't have him come at all. After he wins a world title, he can come. He can come back after he's undisputed champion, he can come back to it. He was losing either way.

I thought he would lose either way, but there's no reason for him to be there ahead of time. And now we see, you know, I saw Tyson Fury say, hey, to the people out there who said Daniel quit, I don't know who said Daniel quit. I don't know if it's anyone of note, or if he's just looking at a few comments on social media. Daniel Dubois didn't quit. He got outclassed, outboxed by the best boxer, heavyweight boxer, and maybe the best boxer of our generation.

I mean, in my opinion, Alexander Usyk is pound for pound number one. This idea that the heavyweight champion can't be number one in the pound for pound rankings is absurd to me. And then when you consider the fact that he was undisputed at cruiserweight and now undisputed at the weight class and now undisputed twice at heavyweight and the, in my opinion, the, the second test of fury fight should have been for undisputed as well. But all right.

He righted that wrong by beating Daniel who got the IBF title. He's, he's insane. Two wins over fury, two wins over AJ, two wins over Dubois. He's incredible. He's absolutely incredible. So that was going to happen. And it seems like in real life, it's going to be a big, big, big, AJ, two wins over Dubois. He's incredible. He's absolutely incredible. So that was going to happen.

And it seems like in rematches he's even better. So, you know, people, people might want to lose their minds over this. And we'll talk more about it with Ade, no doubt. Cause I know it's a gigantic story across the pond. But I feel bad for Daniel because this doesn't seem like it would have been his idea. And there are people pulling him in, uh, in different directions. And those people may be his own family, which is even, which is even weirder, uh, big show this weekend back in Abu Dhabi for the UFC. This has become somewhat of a tradition.

They'll do the October pay-per-view in Abu Dhabi and then they'll do a big fight night show, uh, mid summer, if you will. Last year was the first week of August. This year, it's the last week of July. It's on ABC once again, and the main event is a huge one in the middleweight division. It's the streaking RDR, the pride of the Netherlands, René Derrida, going up against the former champion and one of the toughest human beings on the planet, the one and only Robert Whitaker, who is kind enough to join us from all the way over in the UAE. Hello, Robert. How are you?

Good. Thank you, mate. How are you? I'm doing great. It's great to talk to you, especially closer in time zone where I feel like you don't have to wake up so early to speak to us. Now you just have to maybe stay up a little later, although you're probably training around these hours because this is when the fight is going to be. Right. Yeah, trying to, but it's hard. It's like, like it's hard to rewire yourself. Right. I've got kids as soon as they wake up, I wake up and my body's being wired like that now, so it's more of a, I get up, do my things, try to have a nap and then

get up and do more things. Did you bring your family with you to Abu Dhabi? I didn't. I didn't. I wanted to put this on, but logistically, we just couldn't work it out in time. Okay. You're back there. You have fought there multiple times before. Do you like these trips? Do you enjoy fighting there? I do. I do. That's kind of what I think. That's why the UFC have given me so many opportunities over here is because they know my reflection towards the area.

I like, I do enjoy it. I like coming over here. I have, I'm a creature of habit. So I have everything set up the way I like it. I have good friends and good connections here. We have gyms we train at and everything just works so smoothly when I fight over here. The last time of course you were there was the Hamzad fight and obviously we know how that ended.

Any of those memories come back to you? Any familiar things that, I don't know, maybe brought you back to that place, to that place that you don't want to remember? Oh, I'm pretty sure I'm staying in the exact same room as I did for that fight. Literally the same room? Like the same number? I don't know if. Literally the same room, like the same number? I don't know if it's the same number, but it's the same hotel at the very least. There are a lot of similarities, but honestly, with the amount of time

that I've done this for, five weeks kind of blur together. How are the teeth? Any like ill effects from that? No, no, perfect, mate. Kind of, yeah, better kind of it better than before. Better than before. They look fantastic. By the way, how long did it take to get back to 100% fully healed? You don't think about it in training. You don't think about it in your daily

life. Um, probably a couple months, a couple months. It took a while. So I just got him taken out the teeth. So I got implants put in and then it took it took them a little while to set and settle and et cetera, et cetera. So now that's all done. I've had plenty of time. It's yeah, like I said, better than ever.

Were you surprised when you were offered RDR if only because he had just fought in May? This is a pretty quick turnaround and they announced the fight very shortly after his win over Bo Nicol. Not particularly, because like, you understand how the UFC works, good wins put you in good places. So, UFC usually operate like this, you have a good win against somebody,

they like putting you up again straight away. And they knew I was looking for a fight and they knew the timeline that I wanted. They knew I was happy fighting over in the Middle East. So yeah, when he had a good win, didn't take too much injury. He just, just, they offered it to me and I jumped to the bit. Did you like the idea when it was offered to initially? Yeah, I did because I saw him impressive win over Bo and I saw that him with the hype that he has now as well as me looking for a fight, I understand that winning opens doors.

And he's a good fighter. He's had titles in other promotions. He's had hard fights. He's been around the ring a few times. It's going to be a hard fight and these are the fights that I go looking for. These are the fights that make me better, that mold me into the fighter and the athlete and the person that I want to be.

Just curious, what did you think about the fight going into the Bo Nicol fight? Like, did you think, okay, Bo's an incredible wrestler, he'll have his way with him? And then what did you think in the aftermath? Because I think a lot of people may have thought that going in, Bo was a big favorite. And then in the aftermath thought,

yeah, why didn't we see this? Why did we write off RDR considering his history and won multiple weight champion and all this stuff? You know what? You hit the nail on the head with that one. Because that's exactly how I kind of felt. Like I favored Bo going into the fight. I thought like, okay, let's see the prospect,

keep doing his thing. But then, you know, completely, I guess underestimating Dorita. And then for him to do what he did in the aftermath, in hindsight, well, like I saw that happening. You know what I mean? It's weird because he's 34, you're 34, just he's a UFC rookie essentially.

It's amazing because we view him as I think like this young upstart, he's the same age as you. You know what I mean? And he's had a whole career prior to all of this, but I think a lot of people are starting to be introduced to him and find out about him for the first time because of that win. Were you aware of him?

Were you someone who watched him? Do you even watch the other promotions? Not particularly, but I was aware of him because I have teammates that fight in other promotions and just, you know, the wavelengths, you see things on the feed. But, you know, obviously once the fight was announced, I've done my research and anyone that has done

any sort of research understands that he's been around the ring, he's had a huge tenure, he's got experience, he's a veteran himself, he's got a very particular game of fighting that if you let him do what he wants, he makes it a very long night for you. So, yeah, with all that, I've just thrown myself at the camp diligently in the last 12 to 14 weeks

and I look forward to it. Look forward to getting out there. What does he want to do? Basically you say, let him do what he wants. Your, your, your read on him. What does he want to do out there? He wants pressure, uses reach and then land a takedown. That's what he's going to do.

Um, I think he's going to be pretty insistent on getting takedowns on me. Um, I think pressure and takedowns is where he wants to take the fight, personally. I'm gonna do my best to not let him do that. And this is a five round fight, right? Yep. He hasn't been in one of those in the UFC, but obviously has a history as a champion.

How do you feel like he does in those later rounds? Yeah, he does well. Honestly, he's a good fighter. I guess him fighting Bo was more about how good is Bo, in hindsight, like we were speaking. Him fighting Bo was more about how good is Bo rather than how good he is. Because he's shown the world a lot of times,

how good he is because he's he's he's shown the world a lot of times how good he is. So yeah, I'm I'm looking to get in there, get my hands on him, you know, and make a short make short work of him. But I've been training for 25 minutes slugfest before he beat Bo. He wasn't really in your orbit. And so as you were thinking of your return, probably in these summer months here in the Western hemisphere, who was on your mind? Who were you thinking of? Who did you think would make sense for you to get back on track with? Honestly, like, you know, I was

trying to get the fight with Sean Shicklin and that fight never eventuated. Just because like, I don't think UFC knew when he was getting back to training or what was going on with him. I had spoken to UFC and I spoke to you as well. The UFC, the middleweight division was just tied up in a lot of different directions. A lot of fights being made, a lot of different timelines, but I wasn't fitting in the timeframe that I wanted the fighting wasn't fitting in, like the timeframe that I wanted to fight in wasn't fitting with anybody. So I'm glad that this fight came about and that I get to get in there on Saturday and get back to work. I saw you do an interview with Fox Sports Australia back home and you talked about like your four fight plan. So it seems like you feel like four fights gets you back into that title picture. Are you viewing this as your last push to a title reign?

There's no one who's gonna sit here and say, you can't do it. We've seen some great stories, some people go through multiple chapters in their career. Are you looking at this particular chapter as the last big push or do you not think that way? I do, I do. And I guess because realistically,

I only wanna fight for another couple of years. You know, there's other things I want to do still. And I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. So I understand it is my last big push, the last sprint, last hundred meters of the race. Like, let's get in there, get a few more fights in. I can see the path to the gold and I can, you know, the dream is that fairy tale ending. So yeah, everything, everything goes into this. Does the dream end with you winning the belt? Like is that how you're thinking?

Get me the title fight. I win the belt and then I walk away. That's that's how it goes. That's that's sail up into the sunset. As the champ. As the champ. When you saw the scene this past weekend in New Orleans with Dustin,

because you're kind of talking about a similar thing. Obviously it didn't quite work out with the W, but like he got the sendoff, he got the moment. Very few fighters get that in their home state and be celebrated like that. Did you think to yourself, I would like something like that? I definitely, I've seen it,

I've seen it not only with him, but with some of the other legends in the game that have left. And, you know, I do believe the saying that you gotta, you either retire from the sport or the sport retires you. And I don't be that guy. I've been fighting for a long time. I've got a good head on my shoulders. I understand that I don't wanna be,

I understand that I don't want to fight forever. So, yeah, like I said, few more fights, couple more years, let's rip in. Okay, so like 36, 37, you're done? Yeah, yeah, yes. Wow. I would like to. I would like to be. Yes.

I would stop having kids. Yeah, how many do you have now? I got five going on six in November. This is crazy, I saw this. I've lost count, I'm trying to keep track. You have five going on six, man. Holy smokes. And what's the breakdown?

So I'll end up having three boys, three girls. Wow, did you guys plan on having this many? No. What was the original plan? There was anyone. No one really gets, sometimes they say, oh, we didn't plan on having three and we ended up with three or four. You very rarely see people break the four threshold, let alone six.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because four is when it gets crazy. Yes. Right. And you either, yeah, you either embrace it and you just keep going down or you give up. So six, can you even find a car that's big enough for the eight of you at this point?

Yeah, six is good because you can still fit them in a van. Okay, but that's it. Okay, there's eight seaters, you can fit them in an eight seater car, it's good. Seven is when I'll have to get like a mini bus and I don't want that life. I don't want a hi-ace. Okay, so are you definitively done?

Mate, I was definitively done at two. You know there's ways to prevent this sort of thing. You know this, right? Oh yes, so they tell me. Yes, geez Louise, your poor wife, six kids, I can't imagine. How is she doing? Is she doing okay? Yeah, Stella, it's a lot of work.

And especially when I leave for two weeks for the last bit of the fight, as hard as it is for me, it's much worse for her. So yeah, I sleep, you know, the five weeks and the cut and everything else is a little easier thinking about that. Is this part of the calculus as well as far as you saying two more years, like you just want to be more present as your kids get older? That's the primary focus. It's like the only reason I fight right now is for them. You know, I want to show them, like I want to lead by example. I want to show the kids,

show my kids what I can achieve, what you can achieve, what hard work and grit and determination does and where it gets you. And every fight I provide for them a little more and push them further in anything that they want to do. So I understand that that's the time now, but I want to be a little bit more present. Fighting is a very selfish sport. It's there's a lot of sacrifice involved with fighting and, um, I look forward to not just focusing on myself for a bit. Have your kids ever been to any of your fights? They haven't.

And that's, I wanted to bring Jack this time, but next fight for shirts for certain Jack and my my eldest That is is going to come to my fight. How he's on this as he wants to be a UFC fighter. Anyways, uh-oh How old is he? He's 10 just 1010 and he wants to be a UFC fighter. Is he training? Yeah, they all do wrestling and jujitsu at my gym Gracie ju Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Smith and Grant. I love it. I love it. And so would you be in favor of this? Do you want him to go down this path?

Honestly, just the introduction into the lifestyle of martial arts is my primary focus. It's like, I've already won because martial arts is my way of life and it serves me very well. I think everyone can benefit from it. So for them to be a part of that world, regardless of which direction they want to do, I'm going to support.

Okay. And even if they, like if they want to get into the fight game and all that stuff, you won't try to, like you've had a pretty good career, I would say, to be a, to put it mildly, you wouldn't try to curtail them from going down this path. Some fighters would say I want, I want my kids to have nothing to do with all this. Yeah, I'm not necessarily, I can't control them. I'm gonna guide them to the best of my abilities. And if that's the route that they choose, then who better to lead to guide them, right?

Hell yeah, a legend. You know, you've been in the game long enough. You know that sometimes when someone's hot, they try to build that person's name off of the back of a legend, of a veteran. Do you feel like that is what is happening here, especially when it's someone who's ranked 12th as he is and you're ranked fifth and you've been a champion

and he hasn't, at least in the promotion. Do you think this is a fight that they are using to try to build his name off of yours? Do you think this is a fight that they are using to try to build his name off of yours? Not necessarily. It's, yeah, not necessarily. I've stopped a lot of people who have tried before. And anybody who's ranked under me

is going to be trying to take my spot. And I'm trying to take anybody's spot who's above me. It's just the nature of the beast. Did you watch the event this past weekend? I watched some of it. I watched some of it. I was already here in Dubai, so it's been hard. Yeah, it's late or early Sunday over there.

Did you happen to see Paulo Costa's fight? And if so, what do you think of his performance? I did. And honestly, I thought he was outstanding. I thought like, Kosta's, um, he's very hot and cold. Yeah. But watching him fight on the weekend, I was like, he's back. You know, like that's, that's kind of the Kosta we, we expect to see. Yeah. It was a very measured, I thought a very calculated, a very sort of poised performance

out of him, just the type of performance that he needed to get back on Track afterwards, you know, he's very fired up about this hums that fight Who knows how that's gonna play out as far as him getting it But could I ask since you know DDP and and hums that who do you think wins that fight on August 16th? Honestly, it's Chum I is going to get him to the ground. If he doesn't finish him there, I don't think he wins. That's just how I feel. I think if you can't get Drikis out in the first, which Chamayev can do, his first round finishes is his theme, right? But if

he doesn't get him out of there, I think Drikus looks good. Looks very promising. He's a guy that if you don't get rid of, he kind of wins. Who do you think has the best chance of beating Drikus at this point? Hmm. How to say, how to say, you know, I think honestly, I think Drikus is the sort of guy that will lose to himself. What do you mean by that?

Well, the way he fights, I think it's obviously with every fight, it's very heavy mindset, but driven. Especially for his, he's tough as nails and he never quits. And he beats a lot of people on the backs of him not going anywhere. You know what I mean? You see a lot of his wins that way.

I think the day that he can't push, the day that he can't find that, is the day that he might lose. You know, because he's got a head of steel, he's a tough guy, he's strong, he's physically fit, he puts in the work, you know Yeah When you talked about that dream of winning the belt and riding off into the sunset Is he the champion that you're beating because you have the history with him or does that not matter who has the belt? No, I'd like to I'd like to fight him again. Yeah

That would be yeah the icing on the cake. Of all the ones that you would like to have back, is that the one at the top of the list? Yeah, yeah it is. You know because the Chamei fight is a very different fight camp and it's not super fun, right? But yeah, that's the one. Because you think you're better than him. I Think honestly, I do think I'm better than him, you know, but Well, I think I'm better than everybody Even when I lose right? It's it's mainly that in the first pairing. I let myself down in that fight

in what way and Want to correct that I just didn't I didn't have the headspace the the right headspace to go in and beat him You know was part of that because he was sort of hot and cold Like we weren't quite sure who he was as a fighter unorthodox and you didn't give him 100% the the respect that he maybe deserved? Potentially, potentially like it's yeah it may have been that it may have been like yeah it may have been bad habits that crept into the into the camps before it's you know who knows until 2020. But I do know that I left that fight, letting myself down. And I want to correct that more than any of my other losses.

Have you ever felt that way about any other loss? No. Wow. That's the fight that, yeah, I didn't like feeling like that. Do you think that will bother you in like 20, 30 years if you don't get a chance to right that wrong? Well, I grew from it.

I learned a lot from it. It's not like it happened and it keeps happening and I didn't do anything about it. I went straight back to the drawing board, I went straight back to the gym, and I started working on the things that I didn't like. But I would like, nah, long story short, no. Okay, okay, fair enough, fair enough.

I'll sleep well. By the way, since the last time we spoke, at the time there were no Australian champions in the UFC, now all of a sudden there are two. Volk gets his belt back in April, JDM in May. When you saw that, did it give you any extra motivation, any extra inspiration? Definitely. It was inspiring, you know, to see Volk get back up, to see Jack get it done,

see two belts back in the country. It's, yeah, I was like, time to get back to work, like get me a fight. Everyone knew, you know, Voke was already a champion. We knew how great he was. Did you expect this out of Jack? Uh, like, yeah, I thought I did. I did. I thought Jack had, Jack had the skill set to beat Muhammad, but he also had the X factor to be factor to become the next champion. And he showed that in that fight. Like his takedown defense, his reactions,

his refusal for any position was just top notch. I would imagine you're backing him against Islam. Can you explain why? I wouldn't even ask you who do you think is gonna win. That's your mate, you're gonna back him. But why does he beat Islam in your opinion? Mm. This is a tricky one, mate, because-

Oh, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're not backing him. Am I wrong? No, I'm definitely backing him. I'm biased as heck. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I can see the fight playing out very much like it did with Valk. Okay. But Jack's bigger. He's a little bigger. He's got a different frame.

He's a hard dude to try and hold down. And I think his Jiu-Jitsu is very underrated. He has good Jiu-Jitsu, which means it won't be free. The takedowns won't be free. Being on top of him won't be free. Not to mention Jack has really good hands and if he can keep it into that mid-range, into that distance that he likes, make it awkward. He's very good at not only punching straight lines but punching up. So he is hooks his uppercut. He mixes it really well. He works the body, which makes it harder to shoot on.

You know, there's a, I think there's enough angles there to give his trouble. Have you trained with Jack? I haven't. Okay. That would be an interesting pairing. We spoke last week to Costa Zoo. Excuse me, Tim Zoo, Costa's son, who told us that he trained with you as well. And I've seen you train with Jaiopataya at least that one time, right?

I don't know if you've done it more than once. A few times, but it was years ago. Years ago. How come not recently? Well, I trained once in recent days with him before the last fight, but he's a bit of a jet set. He's all over the place. Zooming out, fighting here, fighting there.

He was injured for a bit as well. It's more about timing because he doesn't live in the same state as I either. When you spar these guys, these boxers, these pure traditional boxers as opposed to an MMA fighter, is there a big difference when you're just doing boxing, but it's a guy who just spar these guys, these boxers, these pure traditional boxers as opposed to an MMA fighter. Is there a big difference when you're just doing boxing but it's a guy who just does boxing as opposed to an MMA fighter who's sparring? Is there a huge difference in the way they attack you and the way they fight you? No, definitely. It's a different sport. It's a different sport. It's uh, yeah. It's as simple as that. It's a different sport.

Even though the MMA fighter is, you guys are just boxing, it's just, it's completely different when you're going against an MMA fighter and a pure boxer? Well, yeah, it's just like, there's like, it's, you know, it's equivalent to like, no, they're just different sports. Like there's just, MMA athletes have to worry about so many more limbs, you know.

And as well as like the threat of the punches, I feel isn't quite the same, you know. Cause the small gloves changes the dynamic of the fight. And then the opportunity of leg attacks, of takedowns, it changes the spacing of everything. The square ring in itself changes how cutting off corners and cutting off at different angles works. It's honestly, it is a very different sport. Do you enjoy it?

Every time I go to spar these good guys, these killers, it reminds me of that. Do you enjoy it? No, I definitely enjoy it. Yeah, I definitely enjoy it. Yeah, I definitely enjoy it. But after sparring, like Tim and Jai, I don't enjoy it that much. Yeah, I bet. I bet. And Jai is unbelievable.

One of the best boxers in the world. And I hope he's going to get a chance to fight for undisputed gold. Before I let you go, I wanted to know if you knew this. You went on Saturday. That would put you ahead of Anderson Silva and Derek Brunson for third most wins in the UFC middleweight division with 15, and only one away from Michael Bisping and Brad Tavares, who have 16, did you know that?

I did not. Brad Tavares and Michael Bisping, number one at 16. Do you care about these things? Do you wanna have the most wins in the middleweight division? I mean, clearly you didn't know the stats, so probably not on your mind, but would that be something that would motivate you? Yeah, well now it does.

Yeah. You just got like, now that I've done- No one's ever told you this. No, I'm gonna call the wife and tell her maybe you throw another couple of years on it. Yeah, get to 20. Yeah, just gotta crack the code. So what do you think?

How does it end on Saturday? What are you feeling? What are you envisioning? I'm gonna try and get my mitts on him. Okay. That's it, I'm coming in hard and it's gonna be hot. He's not gonna be comfortable staying with me. He's gonna shoot.

I love it. Well, I can't wait for it. Always a treat getting a chance to watch you fight here in America That fight is happening in the afternoon on ABC Tremendous main event in the middleweight division always a pleasure Rob. Thank you so much for the time Can't wait to see you in action. Like I said and wishing you the best of luck come Saturday Thank you very much for having me. It's always great. Yes There he is the Reaper Bobby knuckles the one and only Robert Whitaker, who I would imagine when he does decide to walk away,

will get a similar send-off to the one Dustin Poirier had on Saturday. Revered, respected, beloved, that is Robert Whitaker. Who really says a bad word about him? He had the issue, the feud with Izzy, but now look at the love that both Rob and Izzy have for each other. And it was so great to see them back together again. So, amazing stuff and really looking forward to that fight. And to be honest, the whole card is pretty good.

It starts at 12 p.m. Eastern. The prelims are on ESPN. The main card broadcast here in America is on ABC. The co-may, the chief support, is a fascinating one at 135 pounds. Piotr Jan returning against Marcus McGee as he attempts to get into that title picture at 135 pounds. And the Bantamweight division looking to get another crack at, well, either Murab Dwali Shvili or Corey Sanhagan, depending on who wins that fight. And we suspect that fight is going to happen

later this year. Uh, Shara Magomedov, Shara Bullitt looking to get back on track following the loss to Michael Venom-Page, uh, back in February in Saudi Arabia, going up against Quebec zone,-André Barriot. That's a fun fight at 185 pounds. You got names like Nikita Krilov on there, of course, Bryce Mitchell in Abu Dhabi going up against Said Nurmagomedov, Muslim Salikhov on the card as well, Damone Blackashir against Davey Grant should be a fun one at 135 Amanda Hibas against Tabitha Richie.

Martin Buday the man against Marcus Buccecha what a fun fight that is in the heavyweight division. Buccecha all of a sudden in the UFC making his UFC debut. Nice little addition, a Jiu-Jitsu legend in his own right. In a couple of seconds, we'll be joined by another fighter who will be fighting this Saturday. That's July 26th. He is an unbelievable talent, 28 years young, the pride of Brownsville, Brooklyn, 15 and 0, one of the faces of top rank at this point. He's competing on this final top-rank card on ESPN. It's at the theater next door to Madison Square Garden. He's competed all over the United States Prudential Center,

AT&T Stadium, undercard of Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson, made his pro debut on the Fury Wilder 3 undercard at T-Mobile. Golden Gloves champion who wanted to compete at the ESPN, he's competing on the fury Wilder three undercard at T-Mobile, uh, golden gloves champion who wanted to compete in the 2020 Olympic games, but unfortunately due to COVID, uh, those dreams were dashed. Uh, he is fighting Mateusz the beast Hite, who is a 14 and O prospect in his own right in the co-main event of the Zander Zayas headline card that's at the theater this Saturday at Madison Square Garden. A lot of people are very

excited about Bruce Carrington. They call him Shu Shu. He is the pride of Brooklyn getting a chance to fight in New York City once again and we're very excited to have him here on the program. Let us say hello to the man they call Shu Shu, Bruce Carrington in the house. Hello Bruce, how are you? It's good to see you again yes thank you so much for coming in I really appreciate it I know you got a lot of having you yes it's great you remember I saw you in November yes sir yes sir that was a crazy time man yeah no it was Yeah, just put it down a little

Cool gosh, I'm trying to break this pressure It's very strong. All right, cool. This is great. You're getting a chance to fight back home I know you're doing some stuff in Brooklyn today, right? Yes. Yes. What are you doing? I'm going to visit my home gym that I grew up in it since I was in the amateurs I New York City cops and kids boxing club Wow, it's in East Flatbush in Brooklyn, New York great company great foundation is it actually started with the Cops, they basically like, you know wanted to give the kids from the hood and probably stricken areas a safe haven to be able to go to like gym and not just only box but just to get out of the streets and you know they also do like a lot of tutoring just to you know

basically just bring down like the crime rate and stuff like that in the hood and to be honest if I wasn't a part of that that Whole foundation now and just that whole experience coming up as a kid I feel like I Don't know where I would be in my professional career because I was able to be you know Introduce a lot of different people and a different way of life. It's a free gym. Because it's a free gym, it made me think about all of the kids that probably have so

much talent in the hood, but just because they didn't have the finances, they wouldn't be able to do the things they want in their life You know I'm saying like how many? Michael Jordans could it be in this world? How many? So many what this could it be in this world? They had the money to pay their coach or they had the money to pay the gym and this gym is free So now is this you know, the possibilities of that is like endless. How did you get there? Um, Well, I were a kid and how old were you when I think I started I think I want to say like 12 13 years old

Did you box before that? Yeah. Yeah, I was boxing at the age of seven. I was at Star City boxing club before then and then uh Right after that. I just decided to change coaches and went to stand now as a chairman Gary Stark Marcus Brown's coach And I was training with him and then that was a police athletic league club that basically this was the same same type of company foundation but they just changed the name to cops and kids. Who introduced you to boxing? My dad. Your dad? Yeah my dad he was a like you know big boxing fan growing up I mean I was like I'm from Brownsville Brooklyn New York you know we got Mike Tyson's, Judah, Riddick ready, but all these guys that we see on TV

watching boxing before I even picked up the gloves. And so I was very familiar with it. But he introduced me to it because I used to get into like fights in school. But bullies- At that age? Yeah, yeah. But bullies just try to bully me. And like, these like twice my size or two years my senior,

and I was like, handling myself though, I would beat up the bullies that started bullying me, and my dad was kind of surprised, he didn't know that I had that in me because I was such a nice kid. He brought me to the gym, about a month in, I'm already like just catching on quickly, quickly, and my first sparring session,

I beat up this kid so bad, I like, he never came back to the gym. So, but what made me stay in the gym, one was the incentive of seeing like these people that I saw in a gym on TV, like Luis Colazo, Paulie Mononargie, Curtis Stevens, but it was the fact, it was a thrill that I got from being able to hit and also even getting hit and actually getting four back and

that thrill of fighting without feeling bad about it it gave me a certain level of freedom that I in a thrill that I still can't compare to in even like my day-to-day experiences today so it was like yeah like I knew at that age I made a mature decision to box for the rest of my life. Did your dad box? No, I'm the only boxer. You was just a fan. I'm the only boxer in the family.

No, your siblings, no one? No, I'm not. I'm the only boxer in the family. So you think if you don't find that, if your dad doesn't put you in the gym and say, hey, like you got something here, what do you think becomes of you? Well, I can't say that I would have just, you know,

just been in the hood and I like that, to be honest. My parents did a good job of just keeping me out the streets, period, because my mom was like real strict on me in school. So I definitely would have felt like I probably would have gotten into acting or content creating or something of that sort as time went on, for sure. I would have done something to get myself

in a better predicament, for sure. The would have done something to get myself in a better predicament for sure. The people around you, were they getting into trouble? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. I would say a couple of my brothers and then even some friends for sure that I grew up with in Brownsville. There's a lot of friends that I have now that's either dead or in jail. I'm sorry. Yeah, nah, it's all good, but you know what's funny? Because it's something that's very common coming up from where I come from, you know what I'm saying?

So it's just like, it just is what it is. But you take those life experiences and then you make it your own and learn from it and just go a different route. I read something like you were seven or something the first time you saw someone get killed. I was five. Five? Yeah, I was five. You saw this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone got stabbed. More personal. Yeah. It was crazy. I was in Brownsville. I was walking out of I think I was actually coming from somewhere with my grandma and my uncle and I was walking into the back parking lot of my building and

I just see this Hispanic guy running and the black dude come chasing behind him and just stabs him like four or five times in the back I'm just like I'm watching it and it was like oh my gosh And then his back is bleeding and then he falls to the ground and then the cops are like not too far away, they're like across the street but they're not knowing what's going on. So he runs over to the cops and trying to explain himself like, ah, I've been stabbed, I've been stabbed. Blood just like streaming down his back and he just falls flat on his face. Boom, just passes out. What? Yeah, my grandma and my uncle just rushed me upstairs.

It was wild watching it. But you know what's crazy? That situation was traumatic, right? But then I realized just growing up in Brownsville, you're hearing these gunshots, you're seeing the shootouts, you're seeing more people get stabbed, fistfights, brutal, bleeding, coke heads, getting all meth, you know, all of that stuff. You've seen all of that. And I just realized, oh, this is just what it is. Okay, well, I gotta adjust to it.

I didn't think about it like, oh my God, I'm such in a depressing area and not like that. And this is crazy. No, I was like, okay, well, I gotta adjust to this and just build tough skin. How old were you when you got out of Brownsville? I wanna say I was 21. Oh, wow.

I'm 122. Yeah, me and my family and I, we initially moved to Westbury, Long Island. OK. We went out there for about two, three years. And then I moved back to Brooklyn. I went to Bed-Stuy for about a year. And then now I'm living in Vegas.

Yeah. And when you first got out, when you went to Long Island, was that a shock? Was that a little bit better than the situation? I can't say it was a shock because of boxing and amateur tournaments, I traveled the world. You know what I'm saying? So I already knew that I was going to, you know, I already knew what the world was like outside of Brownsville.

You know what I'm saying? So it wasn't like Brownsville was just my world, but I will say the mentality of, you know, I already knew what the world was like outside of Brownsville, you know what I'm saying? So it wasn't like Brownsville was just my world, but I will say the mentality of how I lived day in and day out and how much I was able to concentrate on my work was definitely different because just in New York City period is busy. It's very fast paced, there's a lot of interaction, especially in Brownsville there's so many people living on one block. There's a lot of interaction and then a bunch of people knowing who I am, I'm kind of like a local neighborhood celebrity, the attention is there. Then when I went out to Westbury, everything is more spaced out. You have to

drive everywhere instead of walking everywhere, less interaction, it's more peaceful, it's more calm. So your mind is clearer and I was able to like, really focus on my work even more. And that kind of took me to the next level. Then I realized, yeah, I need to be able to, wherever I live, I need to be able to, you know, be in a space to where it's like, calm. You know, something to where it's like,

not always hustling and bustling, very busy. I kind of need to concentrate and use all my energy into my work. So that's why I ended up moving to Vegas. When did you decide, okay, I'm going to busy, because I need to concentrate and use all of my energy into my work. So that's why I ended up moving to Vegas. When did you decide, okay, I'm gonna go for this? Like, I'm good enough to make a career out of this. Oh, man, I knew since I was a kid. Oh really?

Yeah, I knew since I was a kid. I had that confidence. Like, if you see interviews of when I was eight, nine years old on BoxingScene.com, they're all on YouTube. They're interviewing you when you're eight nine Yes, yeah, I think it's more so because my personality like I just had to I don't know where the heck it came from That's but my personality was just like so confident and I just looked back on it now I'm like, bro. I don't know how the heck I was I was like that

But yeah, I was on pop on popular demand like by popular demand They were like asking me to come back on and like back again because Lou DiBella, he had these Broadway boxing events out here in New York and I used to go to all of those fights, man. It was one time my dad had Drew and Mike Tyson tattoo on my face and everybody was interacting with me, got to interview that day as well too and it went crazy,

it went super viral back then. So that was kind of like the start of everything but I've been new. I think what it was also the people that had around me, I saw Saddam Ali striving to be an Olympian, make the Olympic team. I saw Daniel Jacobs make his do-it-sting in the amateurs. I saw Marcus Brown striving to be in the Olympics, him make the Olympics. I'm like, you know, I'm around these people.

I gotta make it. I gotta make it. So I already had that confidence. You met Mike before you fought on this card, right? Oh yes, yes he did. Yeah, he actually came to my house. He came to your house? Yeah, yeah.

I was crazy. Oh no, okay, so I, okay. So I've met Mike a few times before this, like me fighting on this event happened, but I would say it was like, I was probably like six, seven years old where I really didn't know or care who Mike Tyson really was, the icon of Mike Tyson, didn't understand the weight that he carried. Then as I got older, it was like, I started to understand who he was and I wanted to meet

him and I kept missing him. Let's say he would come and visit Brownsville. I'm away in a tournament. Or let's say he would come and visit my school because he actually attended the same school that I went to in high school. I got sick. Or he came to my gym.

I just happened not to be there. So I'm like, bro, what the heck is happening? Like, why am I not being able to see this guy? And then, just years just went on and I think we ended up shooting for his part shooting his podcast And we set that up But that podcast episode never came up because I think there was some problems with the editorial staff or whatever I don't know what happened and then some years ago another few years ago I'm just like man like I really, I really just want to just have

like a sit down with Tyson, just be chilling and whatever. I fight February 16th last year. And I get the knockout of a Bernard Torres, first time fighting on TV, everything was crazy. And I was like, you know what? I want to do something or say something that is going to carry me over outside of this knockout. You know what I I'm saying and I just decided to do the Tyson rendition I'm the best ever I messed it up a little bit you know I'm saying yeah I messed it up a

little bit in the beginning but you know I think that's what made it even more popular so it happened for a reason so good Tyson called my team it was like yeah oh man you know you guys are crazy I can't believe you did that and he was like listen I, man, yo, you guys are crazy. I can't believe you did that. And he was like, listen, I want you on my card when I fight Jake Paul. And it was no way we could say no to that. How are you going to say no to that? And that was like really the start of like

me actually building my own relationship with Tyson, like a real like relationship. And I would say weeks before, I would say a month and a half before he fought Jake Paul, he came over to my house and it was funny because I had no idea he lived so close to me in Vegas. And he was like, hey man, what's your gate code? And I'm throwing out the trash. I'm like, he called me random. I'm like, oh, my gate code is this, that, and the third. And he said, all right, I'm pulling up. I throw the trash,'m like he called me random I'm like oh my gatecode is this that in the third and he said I'm pulling up I throw the trash run

back in house babe Tyson's in the parking lot oh my god what she's just fixing little things in a house and running around a crib real quick it was so funny but we were just chillin. Is that surreal man? Yo it's so surreal it was so wild even when he came he came out of his car he was rolling this New nice Rolls Royce come to the park like dark It's dark at night and you can see it like kind of glowing there And then as he come out the car this this is woman that's throwing up the trash herself And she sees me in Tyson talking, but she's like

She's kind of scared to say hello. It was so funny. It was such a funny interaction. Does he come with a huge entourage? No, not at all. It's just one of his other friends also named Mike. And that was it. It was just them two. And it was just a real chill.

How long was he there for? About like an hour and a half. Wow. And you just talked about life. Just talking about life. Nothing boxing. Oh, nothing. Nothing boxing.

Listen, he was talking about life. We was watching this show that Fat Joe has on Stars. Okay. And yeah, so we were just talking about how he was just growing up and the things that he's been through, what it is for me to look out for when I get, you know, to a certain level of stardom. Yeah. It was a lot of things that I really wanted to know. I know I can't say everything about what it is with Mike Tyson and boxing,

but there's not much that I wanna learn in terms of boxing for Mike Tyson, because I'm a super fan of his. I just wanted to know the life, like certain things we've been through, like we've had comparisons and certain things we've experienced in Brownsville. Some of my dad's friends are his friends.

Oh wow. It's very crazy how such a small world it is, but it was such a surreal experience. Have you kept in touch? 100%. Really? 100%. You're texting with Mike Tyson? Damn.

I got Tyson. What a life, man. You're a star, I'm texting with Mike Tyson. I got Tyson literally on my freaking phone. It's so wild. I can FaceTime him whenever I want. That is crazy. It's so wild like I could face time whenever I want It's like crazy. It's so wild to me man. It's I freaking love it. I freaking love it like I'm about to the fact that I can like literally Just type in his name. Yeah on my phone That's crazy. You know, I'm saying like I could just yeah name here. That's crazy, man

What a freaking life. Is that surreal? Man, I feel like it's one of those like heaven sent, one of those surreal like divine moments that I feel like just had to happen. And I'm glad that it didn't happen back then because I probably wouldn't have appreciated the moments as much when it happened. Like I'm so happy to appreciate the moment as much as I do now you know I just feel like you know there's God's plan everything happens for a reason.

And so does he check in with you like before these fights does he does he say like I'm going to be watching or anything like that. No, he doesn't do he doesn't do all that But it's just like, you know, like I was just like reach out to him Just see if if he's good or just a random little checkups or whatever, you know, nothing like boxing Yeah, it's more so just How they come I'll reach out to him and you know, he shows love and no little things like that You know I'm saying but nothing too crazy. Did you enjoy the experience of being on that card? Yeah It was like probably with the best Experience that I've had why such was such a spectacle. You know, like I've never been a part of such a spectacle, but you know, you expect something like that when you have a main event like Jake Paul, Mike Tyson.

Were you okay with it? Some people didn't like it. Some people didn't feel good about it. Some people thought it shouldn't have happened. You know, some people may feel that way, but the fact that Tyson was able to get in there and do what he did after, you know, all of his, you know, his health issues and whatnot, it just continues to show why that man is like one of a kind, like in terms of like, he's just an anomaly for the things he goes through and still fight through it. Like that's just a testament of the person he is. And I feel like, you know, I'm just happy to just be able to see him fight again. Like for me to be able to see Mike Tyson fight in person, he quit boxing before he retired from boxing before I even started. You know what I'm saying? So it was just like, for me to be, I have that experience. I'm like, I can say that I saw Mike Tyson fight in person and you know, he went the full, you know duration of the fight

And I was even able to get to see him spar And however, he actually texted me how he like he wanted my advice on oh wow how he didn't spawn I was like you want my advice Crazy real but the whole experience man was you weren't on the Netflix portion of the card But there were still a ton of people watching the prelims and there was so much attention. Did you feel any sort of like trickle down effect from all of that? Just being involved in the promotion?

Yeah, definitely slightly. For sure. I would say like there was a little jump in popularity for that. Just the simple fact that I was able to reach a different type of demographic of fans because so many of those people, those fans, don't really watch boxing on a regular basis. So for me, it was like, that's my goal. I want to be able to reach different type of people,

not just through boxing as well either. I want to be able to continue to even act or do skits or commercials and whatnot. So I just really want to become like a superstar. And I think that was just one of those steps to be able to do so. Well, I see you doing commentary for top rank. How are you enjoying that?

I mean, you're perfect for it. You have such a great personality, smile and demeanor. Thank you. You enjoy it? Oh, no, I love it. Is that your idea by the way, or was that them coming for you? I planted the seed. I planted the seed for sure.

But I think also because the way they hit me talk. So there's like, Oh, I think you'll be good for commentating. They'll ask me, what do you think about this fight? What do you think about this fight? And when I give my, you know, analysis, I have like a thorough breakdown because like, I'm a real like student of the game. Like I really like to do like film study and whatnot. So they were like, yo, like, I think you should be good for commentating.

But I was always like, kind of like putting it in there. I knew what I was doing, to be honest. But yeah, I love it. It's one of those things that I genuinely, I don't really like to do certain things with a passion. Like, it's not a lot of things. There's boxing, there's like, I have the commentating, maybe skits here and there I'll put in. But yeah, the commentating, maybe like skits here and there, I'll put it in.

But yeah, the commentating for sure is like one of those things to where I really love to do. And I'm just gonna continue to grow in that and get my rounds in and you know, shoot maybe even down the line, you know, I'll be on the main like, you know, the team when it comes to top rank in the commentating team.

Well what a fascinating time, cause this is the last show on ESPN. Yeah, yeah. And we don't know where top rank is going. Yeah. Do you know where top rank in the commentating team. Well what a fascinating time because this is the last show on ESPN. Yeah, yeah. And we don't know where top rank is going. Yeah. Do you know where top rank is going? I don't. I don't know what top rank is going but I'm actually very like you know confident and to know that wherever we're going we're going to be good regardless because top rank has been

super relevant since back in Muhammad Ali days. You know I feel like you you know, the fact, that was one of the main reasons why I signed with them. They were able to stand through the test of time, even through, you know, worldly, you know, events like through the pandemic, they were throwing the most fights in the bubble. They were, you know, making so many big fights as well,

like with Lomachenko and Teofimo Lopez, for example. They built certain fighters to have certain names, to have big names like Edgar Berlango built his name in the bubble. Jared Anderson built his name in the bubble. Sanders Zayas, so many different people I could just name. The fact that they were able to do that during the pandemic, I was like, yeah, like, there's no brainer.

I'm gonna, I gotta sign with them. I have to because that's what I want. I love the longevity and the activity of everything that they do. So in terms of like the, I mean, obviously, you don't work for the company. So you can't speak to what's happening in the office. But because this is I think a lot of people thought we would know where they were going post this show and the fact that we don't seems troubling. Do you get that sense at all and the fact that we don't seems troubling. Do you get that sense at all from the people that work for Top Rank or? No, no I don't actually. You know when I asked them, I've obviously asked them like,

oh do you have an idea of where we're going, where we're going? The way they answer is very calming. It's not something that I was like, I don't know. I mean to be honest, I don't think it would be smart for them to do that anyway. Sure, sure, sure, sure But I genuinely feel like they have something up their sleeve to where they know

that they're gonna be okay. So for you to be co-main event, final ESPN show, it's a big freakin' deal, right? 100%. What an honor. Yeah, yeah, I feel like, top freak, they knew to send off the show with the Shoo Shoo Show. You know what I'm saying? I write in Sheer York City.

Yes. I really feel like this is the best time for me to be able to send it off in the right way. I feel like my style is already entertaining. I don't have to try to be entertaining, but I feel like this fight here specifically is something for me to make a statement because I've got to continue to show why I'm ready to fight for a world title. You know, I'm fighting for the WBC interim title and I think that once I win this, I'll become mandatory for the WBC. And for the past, I would say, year or year and a half, I've been kind of just, you know, really screaming and yelling, I want a title shot. I want a title shot. It's about that time.

I feel like you have a chip on your shoulder a little bit because I feel like you don't feel like the top dogs want to fight you. They're giving you the opportunity. Is that accurate? It seems that way. I don't want to say that these, because I have respect for all fighters, you know.

I don't say that guys are ducking in like that. I will say that I think their teams are being very strategic on not fighting me because they see that I'm a risk. And that's very telling on how they believe in their fighter. You know what I'm saying? Because if they really believed in their fighter and felt like their fighter was the best, they wouldn't have their fighter,

they wouldn't have any problem with their fighter fighting anyone. You know what I'm saying? So the fact that they're having trouble with, they're having trouble with fighting little old me, kinda says a little something to me. I feel like at this point right now, that's why I'm really pushing the envelope

and making the right moves. Like, you know, I'm not just fighting another fight, I'm fighting for the WBC interim. I'm putting myself in position to become a mandatory to force your hand to either fight me or vacate. You know what I'm saying? It's one or the other. You have to do something and either one of those you're not going to like. So how close were you to making the Nick Ball fight seem to be the one that you were campaigning? I know Stephen Fulton is the champion, but he's moving up, right? Yeah.

And so, I mean, maybe if you you win this fight they'll just make you the undisputed champ? I don't think that that's gonna happen. I think that Ray Vargas he's the champion in recess. Okay. And I think that he's supposed to have a fight with Carlos Castro. So if that fight materializes and that happens I'll fight the winner in that. Okay, for undisputed? Like for the WBC belt, yeah, I don't mean undisputed. This is why some people get turned off from boxing, by the way, because champion in recess with the Inter champ

and then the actual champ is moving up to super featherweight. It makes it confusing, right? This is some of the things that people are trying to eliminate, like the UFC guys are getting into boxing, they're saying they don't want to deal with any of this stuff. They want to make their own belt. How do you feel about that?

To be honest, I don't know. I don't know how to feel about it, to be honest. We got to see how it's going to shape up the world of boxing. It might be for the better, it might be for the worse. I genuinely don't know, but I just hope for the best. And I just really want to be, my thing is, I just want to be able to fight the best and just be able to you know Get the respect that you know that I've been that I feel like I deserve because I work my butt off

You know, I feel like at this point right now. I'm at a certain I'm in a certain Level to where I just I don't want to fight, you know, some people anymore. I want to fight champions. Yeah I'm just I'm very hungry, I'm very ambitious about it. I see myself being the first undisputed featherweight world champion in the four belt era. I don't think there's ever been. I've done my history, so yeah. I don't think there's ever been a champion,

an undisputed champion, so I don't want to be the first. Okay, how do we get to Inouye? Well, you got to ask Inouye how he got to get to me and that's just moving up to 126. Yeah, do you think he wants to? I don't think he wants to. I don't think he wants to. You've been banging this drum for a bit now. Yes, it's like 2023 at this point. Back when he wasn't getting knocked down, when no one was calling him out,

I was there calling him out. But yeah, I was. I feel like within the way, I don't think he wants to fight at 126 right now, especially after his last fight, I was there at his last fight. He got dropped, obviously. Were you surprised by that? No, I wasn't surprised. You weren't surprised. No, no, no.

It's a gigantic favorite. Yeah, no, I mean, it's boxing. Anybody can get caught, anybody can get clipped. I feel like, especially with his style, sometimes he gets overexcited, you know, and he just runs into shots. That's what happened with Luis Neri as well, too. He got clipped against Nonito Donnera, but he didn't get dropped, but he still got clipped. I feel like now he's feeling, I think he's hitting a ceiling or we're starting to start and she chinks in the armor when it comes to Inouye.

And his post press conference that he had after his last fight, I was in attendance and he said that if he can continue to make 122 as comfortably as he's making it, he's going to stay there. That shows me that there's no real interest of going up. You know what I'm saying? Opposed to back when he was coming to New York, attending my fight, and then leaving right after, kind of like making a no, or teasing, like he's kind of coming up to fight the way

he's not doing anymore. Why do you think he was doing that? Do you think he was actually trying to, you know, get a scouting report on you? 100%, 100%. And then so why didn't he pounce on it? I mean, I think he was just planting a seed. You know what I'm saying? I think it's all about pounce on it? I mean, I think he was just planting a seed.

You know what I'm saying? I think it's all about just marinating it. You know what I'm saying? Obviously, he's undisputed champion in that division. So it's like, undisputed, you kind of already are done and took over that division. You expect to move up. So I feel like he was just kind of flirting with it

and planting a seed just in case. I don't know if he's gonna bite on it though. So what happened with Nick Ball? Yeah, so my team reached out to his team. Huge offer, right? You said two million, three and a half? Yeah, yeah, at first they were like, oh, they would need a number like two million to even look our way.

We didn't have it on tape at the moment, so we put it to rest for some months. We come back later and we're like, all right, we have that number that you want. And then this team just makes another excuse. So now it's like, okay, money thing in business, I get like 100% to make the fight. I'm with it. Like that's, I totally understand it. Now we have that and you're making another excuse. It's something not right, bro. Something like you, you that and you're making another excuse. Something not right, bro. Something like you, you're, you're, something's not confident or like you don't believe in yourself or you don't believe in, you know, you're, you're a

fighter. I don't know what like, what's that's about. So that lets me know like it's more than just the money that lets me know that like, cause it's, if you're just a fighter, well, his team, I mean, let me put on this team. If you believe in your fighter and you know that your fighter is the best, you have no problem with him fighting the number one and number two ranked guy for your belt. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm deserving of to fight for a belt. You don't have to be ranked number one, number two.

You could be ranked number 13 and fight for a belt. You know what I'm saying? And like I'm deserving for it. Why would I not shoot a belt. You know what I'm saying? And like, I'm deserving for it. Why would I not shoot for you? You know what I'm saying? But they're just making these little obstacles, these little hoops and downs for me right now. But I feel like everything's gonna happen at the right time

and I'm not gonna rush it. It is what it is. We're gonna get a title and then make, have more of an incentive to fight him and then be the first unified champion in division you you wanted that for this date Yes, I did. Yes. I did. I really did. I wanted to be I wanted it to be Even back in March March 29th. I just want to fight for a title But uh, yeah, you know it didn't happen

But hopefully it could happen at the end of this year or the beginning of next year So speaking of you can be ranked whatever and fight for the belt. What about Manny Pacquiao? Time away gets ranked everyone loses their mind And then he freaking turns back the clock and you were training at the same gym just for a little bit He'd showed up a couple times right a couple times in my gym. Yeah. Yeah, what about did you watch that? None. Yeah, I watched his fight. Yes. I watched it on Saturday. Oh, 100% man. He looked great, man. You know, you know, I was kind of worried about him at first going into this fight because obviously his age and then his last outing, he didn't really, you know, really look his best. He didn't really look

that good. But what I was told was that he didn't train that much for that specific fight so I was like okay but then you know the way he trained for this fight I heard that I have some friends that went out there in the Philippines with them and they were right alongside him training they were like though like Manny looks really good his legs look strong he's looking you know he turned like he's turning back the clock so I was like oh that's dope and me watching him fight I was like, Oh, that's dope. And me watching him fight, it was like me being a teenager again, watching Pacquiao fight and just being in awe because you could just see the veteran experience of still being able to like roll off certain shots, pace

yourself, land certain things, switching the speed of your attacks. His foot movement is still very awkward and something that is still like a Rubik's cube to kind of your attacks, his foot movement is still very awkward and it's something that is still like a Rubik's Cube to kind of figure out, you know, it's, it was beautiful to see Pacquiao there in the ring and I'm to me on you know what's funny, I'm happy that the fight ended in a draw so we can see this fight happen again. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Like if Barrios said he's down with it, he would do it.

It's going to be huge. I would love to see that fight happen again. Two straight draws for Barrios. On the same card that you fought on, which is weird. Yeah, that is true. Retains the belt twice. But yeah, I was worried, 46 champion, he's like 15 years or so younger than him.

They ranked him. I was like, oh my gosh, this is not gonna end well. And the way in which he looked in his last fight, as you said, I was blown away. I actually kind of thought he won. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people that, listen, I thought he won too. I'm not gonna lie.

Seven-five. Granted, I feel like because it was that close, people can make an argument, but I'm not mad with a draw just so we can have another fight. Did you see Usyk earlier in the day? No, I didn't. He's unbelievable, this guy.

I think he's number one pound for pound. I know some people don't think the heavyweight champion can be, but he was undisputed at Cruiserweight. No, no, he he's number one pound for pound. Yeah. Yeah I know some people don't think the heavyweight champion can be but he was undisputed at cruiserweight. No, no He's definitely number one pound for pound, right? Yeah, I will say Terrence some will say in a way I feel like it happens fight by fight. Yeah, it happens fight by fight So it's like once Terrence and Canelo fights, it'll change sure but right now as we're speaking of today. Yes It was it is yes. That was the drop right? That was the the the knock guy, that was the drop, right? That was the knockdown right there. Like the way in which he moves.

Yeah, that was crazy. Here's where he stops him for a heavyweight. Yeah, yeah, I saw the replay of it. I didn't watch the whole fight. I saw the replay and I feel like at his age as well too, it's like he's not showing no sense of slowing down. Yeah. Ah, man, what is he gonna do next? Man, Jake Paul's gonna fight him. He's gonna showing no sense of slowing down. Yeah. Ah man, what is he going to do next?

Man, Jake Paul is going to fight him. He's going to beat him. Nah, heck no. That's not happening at all. You saw them face off. No, I didn't see them face off. They faced off afterwards. Oh yeah, man, Jake Paul does not want to do that, bro.

No. He said in MMA, he said he wants to do it in MMA. Jake Paul still don't want to do that. Still. You think he should beat him in MMA? Jake Paul, does Jake Paul even do MMA? Not really, not really. So I don't see him doing much in the cage either.

How do you feel about this Jake Paul thing? To be honest, at first I didn't know what to think of it. Because this is like, okay dude, you're just this content creator, you think you can just become a boxer and make all this money, and get all of is notoriety and not putting as much work as actual boxers do and in the beginning We took an offense to that, you know I'm saying but We starting to see like how he's actually like taking this serious like he does train his butt off and you know He is taking these fights. He's going around fighting, you know, head gear, smaller gloves.

He's taking the right approach, right? And on top of that, he's bringing a whole different demographic of people getting into boxing, making the sport lucrative and making it a lot of fun to watch, you know, because he's opened up doors for other contiguities to have their own events. And then to be honest, it's a lot of fun just watching the people that don't know how to fight fight because they just be wailing away. It's very entertaining. I'm not even going to lie. He wants to fight AJ.

Hey, by all means do it like, who, you know, it'll be a big event. Against AJ? Yeah. I think he gets smoked. You think so? Yeah. AJ is too big. AJ, Tank Davis.

Man, I feel like the Tank Davis one is a little like, Tank is like really small, but even then though, Tank just too experienced. You think Tank beats him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Despite like, this is like a 60 pound. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because like, once you're a boxer for like on that level, it's just like you can break down a lot of bigger

dudes that's like far lower than you. Jake Paul, he is good for his experience though. I will say, Jake Paul is interestingly getting better fight by fight. It's crazy to watch. But yeah, when it comes to an actual boxer that's on that level, nah, nah, I can't say that you match up with that. Do you think Terrence beats Canelo? Yeah, in my opinion, I think that Terrence beats Canelo.

I feel like more and more people are starting to say this. I feel like originally everyone was like, Canelo's too big. And now I feel like there's been some momentum where people are like, no, I think Terrence, seeing them side by side, he doesn't seem that much bigger. See, the size, see, that never bothers me because Canelo on fight night, for some reason, he just seems like he's so much bigger than a guy because of stature. It's not more so his height is his back. Like you always like his back is very like just wide and like Cobra like shape. You know what I'm saying?

I feel when it comes to Canelo is just his natural physicality that's just very imposing. For me, that size is still always gonna be a problem for me because I think when Terrence Crawford his last fight when he fought Madrimoff, he mentioned, I thought the problem for the fight, and I'm gonna stand on this because I do believe that this is what it is even no matter what bud says That the fight was as competitive as it was because of this style But bud said in a in an interview and during the fight that it was the power that was kind of an issue that made Him kind of like, you know low, you know hesitant on certain things if the power is an issue Canelo stronger than Majumov. You know what I'm saying?

So what are you going to do with that? And then there were certain shots that Majumov got in with the straight right hand and dipped right hand straight after Terrence throws his jab that Canelo does very well. Canelo has actually dropped Austin Trout with that same shot. What are you going to do with that? So that is still a problem for me when it comes to you know for Crawford. But I do feel like overall Crawford is the best fighter, the better well-rounded fighter. He has a better footwork, he has the speed, he's a switch hitter, he's more versatile, he has what it takes to win

you know. So and I do feel like the mentality as well too, that dog mentality, if Canelo hits him, he's gonna wanna get his back, but still be smart about it. I think that that's one of the main things that make me feel that Crawford is gonna be able to take the victory. I saw you at the Times Square event.

I saw you take a picture with Conor Ben. Last week we had Conor and Shakur Stevenson in the studio. They had a fun little stage. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, how was that? It was sick, man. It was sick.

At first I wasn't sure what was gonna happen. I wasn't sure if they were gonna throw hands. But they were funny together in a weird way. What do you think about that? That would obviously be a big jump up for Shakur. But it seems like he's game. And now it seems like the Connor Ben, U-Bank rematch has gone up in smoke.

I kinda wanna see it. That's funny. Like, you know, I still wanna see Connor Ben and Uubank rematch has gone up in smoke. I kind of want to see it. That's funny. Like, you know, I still want to see Conor Ben and Eubank first of all, because that first one was crazy. It was incredible. It was incredible. But yeah, I mean, why not?

Why not? You know, I feel like, you know, as a, okay, I'm just going to put it out there for people that don't know. As a boxer when you're growing, right? And if you have like a certain level of skill, you realize that you can hang with a lot of bigger guys because skills kind of transcends through weight classes.

That's why you see guys like many Pacquiao go up, Inouye go up, Mayweather go up, Oscar De La Hoya. You see these guys because their skills kind of like, you know, put them through like, obviously sometimes you're able to grow into certain weight classes but you're able to hang with a lot of guys because skills pays the bills. I feel like with your core skill set he can hang with a lot of guys man. He can live with it.

I mean he's been known to spar Jared Anderson before you know I'm saying so and Jared is a heavyweight. So it like, yeah, I could see him mixing Dimmel and Daven with a lot of different guys as well too, and kind of taking a chance to fight in those hardweight classes. That would be crazy. I've seen you do some underwater training. Yeah.

What's up with that? Is it tough? Oh yeah, 100%, it's tough. How long are you under for? Here's some of the footage right here. Yeah, man, it's actually, it Yeah, man. It's actually super fun. It's actually something that we've put into our training camp starting this for this fight. It's my first 12 round fight, and I wanted to be able to make sure that like we do

everything in our power to know that we will be able to last all 12 rounds and have that stamina and cardio and breathing techniques, whatever it is to be able to last at 12, we're gonna do it. So yeah, no, these exercises, these last for about like an hour and a half per class. Wow. And you just don't want something. How long are you actually under without, like how long can you go?

How much is that? As long as I want to. Like they allow you to push yourself. If you can only stand at 30 seconds, stand at 30 seconds, you can stand for three minutes, you can do the full three minutes. You can push yourself as much. You can do three minutes?

No, not yet. I can do about two though. Damn. I can do about two minutes underwater for sure. When you started, where were you at? When I started, I would say I was probably like 45 seconds. Okay. And, but see it is also, it's not just about holding your breath,

while you're holding your breath and you're working while you're under there, it's like that activity, like you want to breathe, cause usually, let's say if I'm doing Squat presses with show with dumbbells under underwater if I'm doing on land. I'm trying to Breathe and press yeah, you can press. I'm underwater. I'm like, I can't breathe and press I got a whole my breath and that's taking more more oxygen out of my muscles You got to stay calm. You got to know how to be calm in the chaos. Find that little serenity in the eye of the storm type of thing. You know what I'm saying? And so I've

learned how to do that. And that brings you to a certain type of mentality too. It's like, yo, just you take that into the ring and you can always be calm even if you're tired or kind of fatigued. It really changed my life. Honestly, I'm not even much of a swimmer. I just started learning how to just do freestyle swimming probably a few months ago. So me being in a deep water, 13 feet, that was kind of scary for me. I'm not going to lie to you. I was not confident at all, but they made me very confident and they took my game to

another level Shushu has martial arts Like that's a martial arts Thing I wish I had the coolest story. I don't there's not it's just a baby name You know like in the hood like everybody got their their Juju and their new news and yes, so where did Shushu come come from it's just a baby name like oh your name is Bruce Yeah, I know it didn't sniff my name at all. I guess I guess like my dad. He just started calling me shoe shoe I don't know where he got it from

It just something that just Just again just a baby name and so there's no story behind it. No, I wish there was Well, I will say that the Egyptian meaning is the one who rises above all. Oh, wow. So I felt like I... Is that a coincidence? Like, you didn't call it... Yeah. Okay. No, it's just a coincidence. Wow. You know what I'm saying? And I really like, you know, feel like with my mentality and the things I've gone through in life is very fitting. But yeah, the word, the name Shushu, I'm glad that I have it because a lot, not a lot of people have it. It's something that's catchy when people hear it. They remember it.

When you type my name up, Shoo Shoo, SHU, SHU. I'm the only thing that pops up. It's like I'm super synonymous with it. So it was like, oh, it's perfect. I knew I was going to have that name as my ring name going into the. More people probably call you Shoo Shoo than Bruce. Yeah. Yeah. At this point and now like they don't call me Bruce Carrington. They call me Shoo Shoo Carrington.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It just flows. Yeah. Yeah. It does. It point and now like they don't ever call me Bruce Carrington, they call me Shushu Carrington. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just flows. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. It does. You always have your brother on your trunks. You always have his name there, right? Forever Ike. Yes, yes.

So that's, you talk about, unfortunately he was murdered, right? Yeah, yeah. How old were you when he passed away? I was 17. 17. And so when you talk about rising above things, that would be at the top of the list.

100%, 100%. I feel like that changed my life so much because, when you have just a lot of death around you coming up in Brownsville, you kind of get desensitized from death, from how serious it is, like the weight of it, right? But once I lost my brother, the way I lost him as well, it was like,

dude, like I can't believe that massacres happens in this world. And what do these, like the pain of the families that how long it lasts, like not even just the whole family, the household, like it's so crazy because I have experienced times of, okay, let's say if I'm, I used to sleep in the same bed as my brother. You used to sleep in the same bed? Yeah, we used to sleep in the same bed. We had a queen size bed, no king size bed inside our room.

And that little space just being able to wake up and turn over and see him, like he's empty, he's not there. We used to have this little hallway to walk to the kitchen from our room. And sometimes if he's going the opposite direction, we have to squeeze by each other. That space is not taken up anymore. Holidays, birthdays, not the same. It's like, man, like how am I going to be able to live through life like this is so unfamiliar, you know, and then on top of that, my little brother, Blake,

he was seven at the time and my, my older brother that passed, he was like kind of like a second father figure to him. Taking him everywhere really loved Blake, like every time I'll be yelling at Blake and being, they almost hit him. Because if he does something to me, Mike would yell at me like, Oh, don't hit him and go crazy. Very defensive. That, I felt like that role fell on me. And it was just like,

I don't know if I was ready for that. I'm just like, ah man. But you know, I feel like, you know, everything happened for a reason and I was, you know, I ended up being ready for it. Cause my little brother Blake, I love him to death and he looks up to me so much and I have him like next to me like every step of the way as much as I can and but yeah my brother was my best friend man. It was super tough because the when he around the time he died was around the time I felt

like very misunderstood as a teenager. You know a lot of teenagers go through that time, you know, just like figuring out life and going through the certain things that they need answers to. And my brother had the answers for a lot of things that I was going through because he had a very similar personality to me. And when I didn't have him, I'm just like,

who do I talk to? I started going to my dad after a while, but it was just kind of like, I didn't want to open up to my dad. I wanted to open up to my dad after a while, but it was just kind of like, I didn't want to open up to my dad. I wanted to open up to my brother. He was just, we used to share clothes bro. You know what I'm saying?

Like that's how tight we were. He's had my team carats and hoodies and hats and shirts everywhere he went. Talking to his friends about me and just bragging all the time. So much to the point to after he passed, I still get DMs to this day. Yo, I never met you before, but your brother used to always talk about you. He used to have your hat. He used to walk in your boxing shoes to just hang out with us. Like, I didn't even know he was doing that.

Like, that's crazy. Give me chills. Yeah, he was real chill. What do you think he would say about all this? I think that the success you've had, man, I think that he would be happy for me for sure. He would be still the loudest and proudest supporter that I have today. Man, well I hope he's watching on Saturday and I'd like to think that he is. Keep it up man.

It's great to see you. You have a smile that would light up a room. Thank you. It reminds me of what people would say about Magic Johnson when you first came on the scene. Oh, that's great. Thank you. With that big smile, which is lovely to see and I really hope that they continue to get behind you top-ranked Because right now as you know, there's sort of like this open space for who's the face of American boxing? Who's like the next big guy and I would put you in that thing that conversation

So I appreciate doing your thing. Good luck on Saturday looking forward to it. And and thank you for coming in There's the poster right there. Interim WBC featherweight title. Mateusz Highta getting a big opportunity for him too, but you're going to defend your turf. So I'm looking forward to that. Right in Shoe York City, baby. Yes. Good luck later today with the kids. It's great that you're doing that. Yes, thank you. And thank you for stopping by.

I appreciate you having me. There he is, the one and only Shoe Sh Shu Carrington. We'll take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Atiba Gautier coming up in a matter of seconds. Much more to come. Okay, that was my conversation with Dustin Poirier from Monday's program, Great Chat. You can watch it right now on the channel.

That was Bruce Shu Shu Carrington, another name that you need to start paying attention to, undefeated, gonna be fighting in the co-main event of the final top-rank card on ESPN. As of right now, we don't know where they will end up. I'm sure it'll be somewhere, and hopefully we'll find out in the next few days or weeks. Still to come, AJ McKee is gonna join us.

He was successful on Saturday in Cape Town, South Africa. He got back on track, and it was wild. He was fighting on the same day that Patricio Pippel was making his second appearance in the UFC. Pippel ultimately wins that fight. AJ's fighting in South Africa on the PFL roster. Of course, that was his third PFL appearance. Beat Clay Collard in his debut, a long time staple of the Bell tour scene, lost to Paul Hughes via split decision back in October, and then came back on Saturday to defeat Ahmed Magomedov. So we'll talk to him, but in a

matter of seconds we're going to be joined by someone that I'm very excited to talk to. He is a product of Cameroon, so another great fighter coming out of Cameroon. Of course the most successful and famous one would without a doubt be Le Predateur, Francis Nganou, but we need to start talking about Atiba Gautier, who is just 23 years young and is smashing people. He is smashing people in the UFC. He defeated Robert Valentine in just 70 seconds on Saturday, won a performance bonus. He defeated Jose Medina back in March in a little over three minutes and 30 seconds,

3.32 to be exact, got a performance bonus. Won on Dana White's Contenders Series also via TKO, didn't get a performance bonus because they don't hand those out, but Juan in the second round, all he does is smash fools. One loss very early in his career in his second pro fight, he lost via a split decision. Juan his debut via decision, every fight since,

which is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, every fight since has come via some form of stoppage. I mean, chiseled, absolutely chiseled. Looks like a heavyweight in a middleweight's body. At some point, probably will end up having to move up because he is that damn big and strong. But he is making waves and has linked up with the good folks over at Manchester. Top team with the likes of Karl Prince

doing a lot of big things over there. Was victorious once again on Saturday, his seventh win in a row his second straight in the UFC let us say hello to the silent assassin Atiba Gauthier who is kind enough to join us hello Atiba Yes, I speak French too. We can speak French in interviews. Okay, thank you very much. No, but my audience doesn't speak French. They don't understand. No problem. They can also speak English. Yeah, okay. I was just saying to everyone that my audience doesn't know French, but I would love to speak to them in French.

It's great to see you. It's great to have you on the show. Congratulations on all your success. What a time. Are you, how are you handling all of this? All this, uh, this great fortune and success that is coming your way. Two straight wins in the UFC now, two performance bonuses. It must be good being a Tiba Gautier. Ah, I think so, but I don't know like, you know, I don't know the guys. Like I don't know to focus on that. Like I finished the fight on Saturday and I start

straight away training again. You don't take a break. Uh, I don't, I don't think I need a break. I, for now I don't need a break. Like this, I just, I just have like a training, you know, like training and home. So, uh, I always have time like free time. So it's okay for me. No vacation.

No. That's always like, you know, training is my life. So like for me, I'm happy to do it, you know, I'm just happy to do. I'm happy to train. I enjoy it. That's the best part of my life. So I like to do it. For me, it's not the job. It's not like it's not something hard. I just want to do it. Yeah, I heard them ask you in the post-fight interview, I heard them say,

what are you gonna do with the performance bonus money? And you said sleep. Oh, no, I go to, so to be honest, like so much how you get the performance bonus, unless I'm gonna buy like an house for my mom, you know, and really try to work with my team and everyone behind us to bring more people from Cameroon, from my team in Cameroon, and more associations to bring them over here in the UK.

So they will improve like me. So they're more simple like me. Do you live in the UK full time? Now I'm living in UK full time now, but most of the time, like sometimes as well, I'm going back to Cameroon to see my family, my mom. How did you end up in the UK? Like why did you end up in Manchester of all places? Okay, like it happened the way like I was in Cameroon. I did like Africa.

I did like competition in some combat. Yes. My coach there met with my coach, my new, my coach here, like Carl in Abu Dhabi in one event, in one UFC fight night in one event. And they meet with one friend of, one friend of my coach who is now as like big brother of mine, Liban Suleiman.

And they meet and they make everything happen to bring, take me from Cameroon to England. Okay and so your introduction into combat sports was that via Sambo? Yeah my introduction review to combat sports was via Sambo, Sambo sport. Here's some footage of you I mean you're just as big and strong in that world as you are in the world of MMA. Who got you into Sambo, and is Sambo popular in Cameroon? Sambo is popular in Cameroon,

and the person who got me in combat sports, my coach, he's just right here in my corner. That's my coach. My first coach, and now he's like, you know, he's like one member of my family now, because he share with me the love like I have to I have to use my power to do like something good with not like you know not something bad but I have to use my power and on the good way so he bring me to Sambu like William

Machang is the best coach in Sambu Cameroon. He brought me, encouraged me in Sambo, shared the love of martial arts with me. That's how I start. I fell in love with combat sports, like love. I was talking to Daniel Cormier today about you and he told me that either you told him or someone on your team told them that like, you don't lift weights or at least when you were a kid,

you didn't lift weights at all. All these muscles, the way you look is all very natural. No weight lifting at all. Is that true? How is that possible? To be honest, like that's just a gift from God. What? Gift from God? Looking like that? You still not lift any weights? I lift weights sometimes, you know, I'm not the guy who will say like, ah, now I have like conditioning session or no, no, no. Sometimes to be honest, I don't like it. I don't like it. I hate weightlifting. I hate that.

Really? Yeah. So that's just what? That's just your jeans? That's just your family the way you look? Yes. What the hell, look? Yes. Yes. What the hell man? Yeah.

Just like. I wish I looked like that from my jeans. That I mean, jeez Louise, the strength. Where does that come from? Who in your family is like that? Most of us here, we are looking the same in my family, but my feelings from my mom side, because my grandma was like that.

She was tall. Yeah, my grandma was tall and big girls. And she used to be strong. When you punch people, man, when you punch people, it's like someone taking like a stick of wood, a two by four, like you feel the thud, you feel the power. It's incredible watching you fight. It really is impressive.

Thank you. Thank you so much. It's incredible watching you fight. It really is impressive. Thank you. Thank you so much. It looks painful. Yeah, it is. It is. You know, I don't hold back. So I feel like, I feel like when I hate someone, like he had a very bad time.

But you know, if he's like, if he's my opponent, I know for me, obviously it's just like, it's just love, you know, just love. We love each other. That's why we try to knock each other out. Just love. It's just like, yeah, just love. You think he loved you? You think Robert loved you?

He was trying to get under your skin, I felt like before the fight. You know, like for me, it's just like, that's why we are doing it, because just like, we love, we love this. So for me, it's just like, if someone we are doing it because just like we love we love this so for me it's just like if someone someone hit me it hit me to make me to make me strong just strong so it doesn't hit me because he hate me he love me he want to show me like you have to be stronger. By the way I've never

heard someone explain it that way I've never heard someone say love I mean I think it speaks to the kind of person that you are but I'm not sure if everyone loves each other who's hitting each other like that. Well, for me, there's no point, on my vision, on my vision, there's no point to do heme me and hating people like, I'm going to hurt you, I'm going to hurt you, okay, but I hurt you because I love you, because you love this sport,

and this sport, you are meant to hurt each other. So we love each other, that's why we are going to hurt each other. Just love, but after that, there's nothing else, like love. What bothers you? What makes you upset? What do you hate? Oh, okay, what I hate, I hate people like,

I hate seeing people have like, I hate people who lie, I hate people who fight for no reason, you know. I hate seeing people so far as well. I hate like, I hate a lot of, like, what I hate is like, what, like, just what normal people should hate as well. Like, normal thing, yeah. You know, I've talked to Francis a lot over the, by the way, do you know Francis? I know him like in video.

Have you ever met him? Did you catch that fly, by the way? Yes. You caught it. This thing you just did, you caught a fly. You're crazy. That's incredible. Obviously you know of Francis, but have you ever met him? Have you ever shaken his hand?

Never. Wow. We got to get you to meet him. Is he an inspiration for you? When I started MMA, he is not. He is not my main inspiration. He not my main inspiration for me. But when I got into the MMA world, I was like, wow, this guy is also Cameron. I said yes, now I said yes, he did something good and great.

But the first person I was with, I was like, I want to be on this level, I want to be like him, I want to be on this level I want to be like him I want to be on this promotion and the top I want to be like him was Laurent Murphy because like people know him as a fight only as a fighter but I know him also as a teammate and as a friend and it's like someone who like inspired me you know the way he's fighting even like not only in the fight, but at the gym, you know, the way he's acting was like, yeah, yeah, that's the way, that's the guys I have to follow. If I look up to be like him, I'm sure like I'm the guys, when I want to be like you, it's not like I want to be

on your level, obviously I'm the guys like, I want to be like you and more than you, you know, look just more. Well, I appreciate you saying that. Lerone Murphy, one of the best fighters in the UFC now, and I know a teammate of yours at Manchester top team. The reason I brought up Francis is because he has talked to us a lot about his humble beginnings,

about how he lived in Cameroon, what he tried to escape, all the things he had to do. Do you have a similar history or was your upbringing completely different? A bit different because you know, like Francis, you know, in Cameroon, you know, when you're big, in Cameroon, I'm not like the biggest guy in Cameroon, to be honest.

I'm like average guy, like normal. Yeah, I'm not like the biggest guy in Cameroon to be honest. I'm like average guy, like normal. I'm average. Even my physics, average physics in Cameroon is like normal. Many people like that in Cameroon and it's normal for us. And Francis is like, he's big guy. In Cameroon, like with big guys, obviously when someone is big as him, you don't want to mess with him. You don't want to play with him.

Obviously when someone is big like that, he's strong. In common for sure he's strong. He's not weak at all, but I wasn't the guy, I wasn't like the guy, the most bigger guys in my area. So I have to always show that I was strong. You know, those different. Yeah, you used to get into street fights as a kid, right? Nine, 10 years old, you're fighting guys.

Yeah, because I have to show that I was strong, but because my body doesn't look, you know, when I was kid, like my body wasn't look like, so like he's the most stronger guys here, but I have always to show, you know, I always have to show, show, like I'm strong. like I'm strong I am I'm strong I can do it no one can you know no one can mess with me and always you have to show and so those people that you were fighting with on the street did you love them as well or was that a different type of battle no

I was like different type of battle because this battle was like, I know like I have to gain respect. People have to respect me by force because if I don't force them to respect me, but I'm gonna have very bad time, very bad time. How many street fights do you think you got into as a kid? Oh, to be honest, like I can't count. I can't. Like over a hundred?

Over, for sure. Wow, you were fighting all the time. All the time. It was normal. For me it was already normal. Like I normalize the fact fighting in the street was normal. You know, and one moment my mom was like, I fell. And why I fell in love more with combat sport was like you can fight with people and there's no like no one will hate you after and you will not have to fight with them friend after and that's why I love more combat sport like yes that's the real love you can fight

only with one person and you are not waiting for more people. I said like yes I really love this sport. I fell in love like that's the love that's the love I'm always looking for. That was the real love. But in the street fight for hungry person you know, you are going to fight. You can fight every single day back to back. And it's not with one, not two, like sometimes you can fight five, five people, six people. And sometimes it's not like, it's not like only fighting with hands, you know. They are not coming because obviously

when they know already you are strong, you are going to be, you have to be ready for everything. Did you ever get in serious trouble? Did you ever get, you know, I don't know how it works, but like as a result of fighting, did you ever get in trouble with the law don't know how it works, but like as a result of fighting, did you ever get in trouble with the, with the law? With the law? No, no, because obviously I used to fight in like, you know, in our, our neighborhood.

So like they always in like a very hiding place, a weird place, you know, wherever like the police can get there. And what about seriously hurt? Sorry? Did you ever get hurt? Oh yes. Like what was the worst injury? The worst injury I've got in the street fight

was I was stopped, I get stopped by the one guy. I have like one mark, two marks in my shoulder. I get stabbed with a screwdriver. A screwdriver? Yeah. What the? So they don't fight fair? They're fighting with weapons? Yeah, yeah.

It was normal for me. When I realized it wasn't normal, it's when I get in UK. But before UK, for me it was normal. I normalized the fact you can fight with someone who got something like screwdriver, knife, something like that. For me, it was absolutely normal. No problem. Wow. Did people ever die in these fights? And dying? No, I never, I never, I never hear or they just beat you up. If they knock you out, they will leave you like, okay, it's okay. Okay you never die. And was it just like, hey, let's fight

for the sake of fighting, or was there an issue that needed to be settled? You know, the kind of issue I'm going to tell you is like, you're walking in the street, and then someone look at you, or you're looking at someone. Everyone just look like, you just say, why are you looking at me on this way?

You say that, sorry, there's no sorry. If he's mad, if he's not okay, just come and slap you or try to punch you. And you said, no way, you can't punch me. I won't let someone like me just stand and hit me for no reason. I said sorry already and then you start fighting. Most of the time was like the greatest reason in the world. When you got stabbed with the screwdriver, what happened?

I didn't even feel at the moment, I didn't even feel. Oh, you go to the hospital? No. What? But you had- No, for me it was not, for me it was okay. You know, for me, I get the hard, because my body have a lot of scars. For me, every scar, like one story,

I was like, yeah, I did this battle. I'm still alive. You know, for me it was like, I was like, I normalize like, I normalize the fact you can fight like on this way. And it's normal, was normal, but it wasn't. When was the last time you had a street fight? How long ago? Five years.

Okay, so in the UK this doesn't happen? No, no. For me UK is so safe. So cool. You know what happened to Lerone Murphy, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was scary stuff. Yeah, very scary. A miracle.

Shot in the face. Yeah. In the UK. Yeah. But for me, it's like, it can happen. Yeah, anywhere. Yeah, anywhere in the world. So, it's happened, but he's still alive.

He's a real warrior. He is a walking miracle. And what about your size? It's crazy to me you're just 23. Do you think eventually you're going to have to move up? Is it getting hard to make middleweight? To be honest, it's not hard to make middleweight now. It's hard. But if I keep growing up on the way I'm growing up, I will move. If it's become like too hard, I'm just going to move. But for now, I'm still okay. Like let's go to middleweight.

Yeah. Yeah. Look at where's this? Where is this? This is in Cameroon. That's Cameroon in the back of my house. I was kicking. I was kicking a papaya tree. I even broke that tree.

You kicked the papaya tree and you broke it? Yeah. This is how you train? Does your mom still live there? Ah, yeah, she still lives there. Now I've, I've, I've said before, like with the money I've got, like for the performance, like I'm going to buy a new house for her. You're going to be happy.

You know, since I was a kid, I always say, my mom, she's getting up at 5 p.m. back home at 9 p.m., 10 p.m. It's not easy for me to see her keep doing it. But now I make everything like, for her like to make her stop. Because she's old now, but she's not the most old woman in the world, but for me she's old and I love her.

I don't want her to keep doing it because like I don't want to lose my mom. And now she's getting healed, you know, like she had like diabet diabetes, like she's really get diabetes. So like, no, I don't want to see my mom on this way. That's why I'm fighting to make her life better, my life better, but I don't want to see my mom suffer anymore.

Yeah, no respect, respect. Do you have siblings? I have siblings. How many? Seven. Seven. And do they, so it's eight including you? No, all of us.

Oh seven. Okay. And do they live there? Yes, they are living there. Any fighters? No, they are very strong. But no, no, I'm the first one in my family who ever thought about like doing like fighting things, but they said no.

I heard you say someone asked you if you weren't a fighter, what would you be doing? And you said IT. Yes. Well, like what specifically in IT? Like a programation. Okay. You studied this? Yes, I did.

Okay. Do you think you'll still do that one day or no more? You're gonna just stick with the athletics. To be honest, even now, still like, studying when I have like, when I have time, I still studying. For me, it's like, I still have time to learn. I can learn everything.

Not only fighting, but I can learn everything. I still, I'm still learning. Mathematics, physics, when I have free time, learn everything. I'm still learning mathematics, physics, wanna have free time, still learning, IT, still learning. When do you think you'll come back? Meaning when do you think you'll fight again? To be honest, now I don't know, but I'm waiting. When they're gonna give me a fight, I'm gonna fight again.

You're ready. No problem. I'm ready to go again. That's why as soon as I finish the fight, just getting to to fight again. You're ready. No problem. I'm ready to go again. That's why as soon as I finish the fight, just getting to the gym again. And is there someone in particular you want to fight? Oh, no, I have no idea. For me, there's no way to choose. If they give me someone, if they give me someone,

I have to fight him. If I don't fight him now, I'm going to fight him later. If I don't fight him now, I'm going to fight him later. If I don't fight him later, I'm going to fight him again. So like, there's no point to say no. So like, let's fight. For me, that's why I say he just love. Why am I going to say no to someone who love me? I get, no, I get.

I love the way you break that down. By the way, did you speak French in New Orleans? There's a French community there. Yeah, I didn't speak French, but more because I'm always in the room. Even in New Orleans, I was always in the room. Oh, you don't even go outside for a walk or anything? You didn't have any beignets?

You didn't go to Café du Monde to have some beignets with the chocolat show. No. Come on, Atiba. You got to see the world, my friend. I'm like that. I'm not doing it on purpose. That's my personality. You're focused. It's not even like about being focused. That's how I am. You just like to watch anime? Yes.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha. Which is your favorite one? Pokemon? To be honest, no, I like anime like Bleach, but I like mainly the one character in Bleach. Bleach? Mainly one. Bleach.

I don't know this one. The anime, what they say, Bankai. I don't know this, Frank, you know what he's talking about? Yes. We have a guy, he's an expert in anime. What is he saying, Frank? What is he saying? What's Blache? You know, like this guy. You know this guy? Genpachi Zaragi.

You know this guy, Frank? He's awesome. He's the best guy. My best character. I like him. I see him. He's like, yeah. Oh, he's the best guy. Oh, yeah. My best character, I like him. I see him, he's like a samurai guy. Yeah, mad guy. You like this, you sit there and you watch this stuff. Yeah, because he love fighting.

For him, fight is just like, love, like good. He like fighting. But this is kids show, this is cartoons, no? Oh, why is not kids show? No, I like him. No matter what anyone will say, I like him. I love it. So all you want to do is eat, sleep, train, watch anime. Eat, sleep, train, watch anime, fighting, eat, sleep, and again, and again, and again.

Well, it's working my friend. It's a great life and it's a pleasure to watch you fight. I'm a big fan, I really enjoy watching you do your thing, so keep it up. and again and again. Well, it's working my friend. It's a great life and it's a pleasure to watch you fight. I'm a big fan. I really enjoy watching you do your thing. So keep it up. Thank you. Bon courage as they say. Merci beaucoup.

And thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it and I can't wait to see you fight again. Thank you so much. Okay, there he is. Atiba Gautier, the pride of Cameroon. The man known as the silent assassin. What a lovely fellow.

Love meeting these guys for the first time and loved seeing him do his thing. If you have not watched him fight, if you have not seen his fight on Saturday or the one before that from a few months ago, do yourself a favor. It won't take you very long to watch these fights. He is a freaking beast out there.

I mean, the way in which he punches, the power, the ferocity, it's unbelievable. He is going to be someone that we're going to be talking about for quite some time. Our next guest, our final punches, the power, the ferocity. It's unbelievable. He is gonna be someone that we're gonna be talking about for quite some time. Our next guest, our final guest of the day, is someone who we have been talking to and about for quite some time. He got back on track in Cape Town, South Africa

this past weekend, defeating Ahmed Magomedov. A big win for him. It's always great to talk to the one and only AJ McKee, and he is here to talk to us about what transpired this past weekend. Hello AJ, my man, how are you? Hey, I'm doing well. How about yourself? Congratulations on the win. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. Feel good about it?

Oh yeah, man. It's like a welcome in home party for 145. So anytime you get back to doing what you do best, kicking ass, taking names, it's always a blessing. Do you feel like you're back on track now? Yeah, I don't feel like I was ever really off track. Life throws curve balls at you sometimes and you just gotta roll with the punches. Yeah, a lot of wear and tear on the body, things add up over time. So it's just on the body things add up over time. So

it's just Doing the correct things and the right things to kind of heal, you know, I'm getting old So I've got to take care of the body now old. How are they? It's 30 years old man. You ain't already man I'm getting old Ariel. I've been wrestling since I was five. I've been you know in the MMA game Since I can remember so I've been at it over 10 years fighting professionally now and fighting in general probably 15, 15, 20 plus years. So you're back to 45. Yeah. Why?

And well, because I lost, you know, I feel that was my first loss. I had shoulder surgery right before the fight. I wasn't supposed to fight. My doctor told me not to But I use fight. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I had shoulder surgery I think it was three and a half months before the fight I had a torn labrum peck bicep and they shaved down my AC and rotator and so why did you fight? Cuz I gotta pay bills. Yeah

And I could throw a punch. You know what I mean? I wasn't, it wasn't like I wasn't able to perform at all. You know what I mean? So I hadn't fought and I think it was like eight, eight months or something. So I get the call, man. Regardless of my mental or physical health, I'm gonna go do what I love to do and that's fight.

Hint tight 2020, do you regret taking the fight? No, not at all. Not at all. I love to do and that's fight. Hind tight 2020, do you regret taking the fight? No, not at all. Not at all. I love fighting. Okay. It was just crazy. Cause I've never felt the way I felt in that fight. And I came back after the first round and I was like, dad,

like I'm done. Like I'm, I'm gassed. I have nothing left in the tank. And to feel that and know like, all right, I can still fight two more tough rounds and lose a split decision that was close. You know what I mean? Me at 100%, I just, I don't know, at 100%, it's that just reassures me of being the best,

you know, in my mindset, I've always felt I'm the best. I've always said I'm the best. And I'm going to just continue to prove to everyone that I'm the best. I've always said I'm the best. And I'm gonna just continue to prove to everyone that I'm the best. So yeah, 145, that's my stomping ground. 55 is I was fight away from the title. So like I said, I wanna be a 45 and 55 pound champ. So maybe I'll get to it one day, but for now we're focused on receiving another 145 pound

title and claiming the best in the world there again. So ultimately, why did you decide to make that move now? Well, one, I was having a problem keeping my weight up and I was eating just crazy stuff, 24 seven, blueberry banana pancakes, chicken parmesan's every day. And my weight wasn't really staying up. So coming right off the shoulder surgery, my weight was already low. Um, so yeah, after the fight, I was like, dude, just don't go splurge and, uh,

take your weight back down. You know what I mean? And at 145 pounds, like I said, I don't care who it is. You put a man in front of me, I'm going to take them out. So, um, coming off of a loss loss I kind of don't want another loss so it was just more of the reason you know fighting at 155 pounds is like vacation so it's more discipline more structure to make 145 pounds and yeah I figure it's just time to get back to being serious getting back to business I I'm meaner, hungrier, faster, bigger and stronger.

145 pounds. How was the cut this time? Honestly, it wasn't bad. It was really easy. Getting older, getting smarter. I'm doing things the right way. A lot of running. I think I cut weight, but maybe four times, three or four times and

leading up to it on weight. Yeah. Yeah, literally. Why so many times? Well, I mean, I'm a big 45 or that's not even that much. My weight cuts used to be, man, I'd have to cut six or seven times just to get down to 45. So, and I'm saying four cuts over the span of maybe two or three days.

Okay. No, so it's not in one day. I'm saying four cuts over the span of maybe two or three days. Okay. No, so it's not in one day. I'm cutting four times. I think I cut once a day and maybe twice on Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday. So cut wasn't that bad. It was honestly pretty easy. What was it like being in South Africa, being in Cape Town? This was a big event. What did it feel being in South Africa, being in Cape Town? This was a big event.

What did it feel like? It was amazing, man. A little bit cold. I like the cold, but when that weight gets low, I don't like the cold too much. Because it's winter there now, right? Yeah, it's winter there. But it's still beautiful, man.

Everything was so green. The sun would peek through on some days. I got to go run on the beach, kind of hang out, explore the town a little bit. It's a beautiful place. I can't wait to go back. I want to go back in summer. Everyone's telling me like, you got to come back there in the summer.

The people are amazing. The culture is amazing. The history is even more amazing. So being able to learn a few things while I was there as well is awesome. It's obviously something we've been talking about for a while. MMA in Africa, a big show coming to Africa. Did you feel, and they have a champion, they have Drikus from South Africa.

Did you feel like this was a budding MMA scene? Did you feel like they knew what they were talking about, what they were covering, what they were watching? Did they know who you guys were? What kind of reception, what kind of love did you feel? Definitely, definitely. It was amazing. It was as if they had been having shows there all along.

They're very big supporters of mixed martial arts. The fighting's just in the culture's background there, so for them to have an actual show to come there and actually present a full force entertainment aspect and show like PFL did for them and a platform. It was awesome. They loved it. They knew who all the fighters were. They were very supportive. The crowd was amazing. Only crowd I've ever seen kind of roar louder than that was in Hawaii when Ali Mulay fought. That whole crowd was there for her. But same thing in Hawaii, when Ali Malek fought, that whole crowd was there for her. But same thing in Africa, just the energy was so high-paced.

Everyone was supportive. They loved the fight game. And to have a full card of African fighters was just phenomenal. I saw your face off, I think it was just a couple days before the fight, and your outfit was incredible. Can I ask what the inspiration was behind it? Here it is, we're showing it now.

I mean, you looked phenomenal. I wondered if you were a little bit cold considering the weather. But- It was a little cold. It was a bit cold, but it's just, it's the native thing, you know, Zulu warriors. That's the South African way.

So myself have a family descend from from Africa as well Donna it's I love to kind of connect with the culture of wherever I'm at so why not Zulu warrior outfit all the way show them the warrior the African warrior same thing like when I fought in Japan I came out in the samurai I loved it, I loved it. Where'd you get that? Um, the green market. So like I said, we were getting, we were able to kind of explore the city and step out a bit. So there's a market. It's one of the oldest markets in, in, in the city. Um, and yeah, it's still, it's still up and working until this day. You, you can go there and they're

selling all kinds of things. But back in the day they used to sell all the food and stuff there and now it's more of like gadgets and gadgets and stuff and outfits and leathers. And it's dude, it's real fur, it's pretty sick. I got it sitting over there in the corner. It's an awesome outfit. I'm definitely gonna have to find a little mannequin

to dress it up on and put it in my little memorabilia area. And you know, what about that main event? What about that finish? Were you in the crowd? Were you watching that live? I was. I knew after the third round, I was like, dude, Johnny's gonna have to rest this fourth round

because this dude's not gonna quit and then come fifth round, man. He gave it all he had. He had nothing left in the tank. And he just, I knew he was going to sleep that warrior in him. He's, he's not going to tap. And that was all she wrote. But man, what a crazy finish literally within 10 seconds left.

So that was probably by far my favorite fart, my favorite fight. It was a definitely one hell of a main event for sure. I was talking to have picked a better one. Oh yeah. It was definitely one hell of a main event for sure. Couldn't have picked a better one. Oh yeah it was incredible. Dakota looked great as well and you did very dominant. I was talking to someone, I don't know if I've ever seen this and you've been around for a while and obviously you came from Bellator. When PFL goes international, when they do these shows, either this one in South Africa, or where they're in Europe, it feels big, it feels important, there's a huge crowd there.

And then when they do these shows in America, it feels completely different. And I've never seen a juxtaposition like that. Like you watch that show on Saturday and you're like, oh yeah, this is huge. You watch Paul Hughes and Belfast, and you're like, oh my God, this is huge. And then they do the shows here, and they, for lack of a better term, they feel a little bit ho hum.

I don't understand it. I don't get it. What is the difference? What can you tell? Do you notice the same thing or am I crazy here? A little bit, a little bit. I think it has to do possibly with the areas of where they're doing it, who's on the card in what area. Because like, for instance, they come to Long Beach, they put a show in Long Beach, oh, I'm going to sell the arena out, you know what I mean? Like you said, Belfast, Paul Hughes, he's going to sell the arena out. It just depends on the demographic of who's fighting on the card and what area they're in. I think specifically, speaking for myself in Southern California, this is the pinnacle

of mixed martial arts. So anything in California is always going to be a hit. But I think it's just a matter of where they're doing it. They're doing really big overseas stuff. They're touching a market and a demographic area that hasn't really been explored yet. And I think that's what's really cool because they're bringing views that normally people aren't tapping into. So I think it's really cool.

And it's awesome for me to be a part of big shows like that as well, you know, being able to be the first to do something in Saudi, now South Africa, and who knows where we'll do something next. Are you happy in the PFL now? Oh yeah, man, I couldn't be more happy. I get to fight every day, I get to hang out with my family,

I get to do what I love and just kick ass, take names, mercenary style. I've always said fight me as much as I can fight. I'm here for a good time, not a long time. I got I got another what five years left and I'll be done with mixed martial arts and on to my second half of life I don't want to be that guy that's fighting until I'm 40 years old and kind of hanging in there, you know, I Want to start something else follow some other passions in my life. And so so you're saying 35 you're done Yeah, I don't think I want to fight past 35. Okay, the reason I asked this we haven't talked in a minute But you know one of the stories of the year has been a lot of the Bellator guys being unhappy

With the transition and asking for their release a lot of them getting released You were at one point the face of Bellator in my opinion I mean that went over Patricia Pippel in my opinion is Bellator moment. Like if you want to ask someone about like what was the greatest moment in Bellator history it was that when your celebration what it all meant and so I was wondering how you felt about some of these guys in particular your longtime rival Pitbull leaving in the midst of his deal and getting this opportunity Pico getting this opportunity others as well and you're you're still with the, not the old guard

per se, but you stuck around. I think at the end of the day, everyone independently is their own business. So they have to, one, do what makes them happy, two, do what's best for them and their career. So yeah, I was excited to see a lot of those guys go and make that transition. If that's what they feel is best for them in their career, then awesome, you know, hats off to them. I'm always supportive of anyone that kind of is like a colleague that I've either fought with or fought by sides and I've known for many years. So I'm always supportive of them and their decisions and what they want to do in

their life. In regards to me, you know, I just, I kind of just sit back, watch everybody and focus on me, my family, and just building my portfolio of life, you know, and just continue to reach new levels. Like I've always said, I love the real estate game in the middle of opening up a gym. So my hands are full. You know what I mean? I'm constantly busy, constantly having stuff to do. But yeah, you know, if guys are unhappy, then they, you don't want to work in an unhappy place. So hats off to them going and exploring new things.

But for me, I've been happy. You know, I'm comfortable where I'm at. There's no ill feelings for me. And so I understand that this might be an awkward question because you work for the company and who wants to talk negatively about a company they work for or are associated with, but is there any part of you that says,

hey, I'd like to test the waters there too. I wanna see what I'm like against the best at 145 or 55 in the UFC. Are you blinded by any of that? Or if ultimately the question is, if you reach 35 and decide to retire without ever stepping foot in a UFC octagon, are you at peace with that? Um, yeah, you know, I've, I've always said it. I could care less what other people think at the end of the day. Um, I think my skillset has spoken for itself.

My record speaks for itself. I'm the baddest 145 pounder in the world, period. I don't care who it is, what it is. It is what it is. People may love to hate it, but that's their opinion. They they're they're entitled to have their own opinion. I'm entitled to have my own opinion. But at the end of the day, I just I work to be the best, you know,

and I think that's why I am the way that I am. I think that's why my record is the way that it is. I have one of the best records in the fight game. You know, there's not many people that have done what I've done and let alone accomplished things that I've accomplished. So at the end of the day, I could care less what people think, what people want to say, because at the end of the day, man, as soon as I'm done, there's another me they're just going to replace me with and continue to build up

and allow to fight, you know what I mean? So for me uh you know I just I just want to continue to take care of my family bless them with a lavish lifestyle and my family to come and that's that's genuinely what I work for you know obviously getting the bounty points of being able to claim the best in the world is awesome. But yeah, for me, it's a belt to belt. I like the titles. Those are something I can show my kids one day and be like, hey, look, this is what your dad did. This is what your grandfather did.

This is your lineage of greatness that has been acquired along the years and the decades. So yeah, for me, it doesn't really matter. I've become, became a world champ. I've kind of hit my milestones that I've wanted to secure. There's a few left. Like what? But I wanna be champ champ, man. I called that before Connor did it, so.

And when you say champ champ, at the same same time or just a champ at 45 and 55 um I don't know I wanted to do both but you know obviously bouncing back from both divisions at the moment kind of seeing what the weight cuts and and that works. I think the ideal and smart way to do it would be at separate times. So I can obviously bulk up and kind of put a little bit more muscle on. But I don't I don't care. I just want to be a two division champ. Forty five, fifty five, you know, possibly a 170. I think styles make fights and myself having such a unique style

My skill set Holds me at a level to where I'm able to do things like fight at 145 fight at 155 at the most elite level It's not like I went up to 155 and I fought one or two fights Like I've I was fighting some some pretty good guys at 155 pounds and you know I was fighting some pretty good guys at 155 pounds and you know, what, a fight away from the title, lost a split decision to a guy that went five fives with the champ, you know, so hats off to both of them, the champ and Mr. Hughes. How do you feel about all of that with Paul Hughes

and Ousmane, because now it seems like, to me it seemed like a no brainer, run that one back. That was such a great fight. No? Yeah, it was an awesome fight. It was an awesome fight. I think they definitely should run it back. Shit, I wanna run it back with Paul Hughes.

Okay. You know what I mean? But I don't know. I'm not. Is that what you want next? Rematch against Paul Hughes, winner fights Usman. I don't care if that's what they wanna do. I'm not big on. Well, you're so chill right now. Did you just like, uh, did you just smoke a fatty boom body or what?

What's happening over here? I haven't smoked weed in a couple of years. Yeah, you're so chill. No more. Nothing bothers you more. No, man. I'm getting older. Ariel, I'm telling you the fight game, the politics, you're not getting bothered by any

of it. I don't give a shit about none of it, man. Pay me. I'm going to show up. I'm going to do what I do and go home to my family, my dogs, my cars. At one point you were sort of fueled by all this now. Yeah. Yeah.

But that's, that's, that's the wrong thing to be motivated about because at the end of the day, what happens when things don't go your way? You know, you fixate on things that aren't within your control, whether, you know, why, for what? Just focus on the things that are in your control. You know, focus on the things that make you happy, the things that you wanna do, and push those to the fullest, you know what I mean?

Now, I could care less what people say, what people think. I'm gonna just try to do the best that I can do be the best that I can be and Pave the way for my little brother, you know students eight years old. He's He got to go to South Africa with me. He's getting to see a different lifestyle He gets to see the inside and out to the fight game and just like my dad told me he doesn't want me fighting I don't want my eight-year-old brother fighting but the end of the day it's in our blood. It's what we do. So I just got to kind of pave the way and get him ready to take over the throne

and do his thing next. What was the turning point where you kind of stopped worrying about that stuff and now, you know, are in the state that you're in now, the mindset that you have now, what was the turning point that allowed you to realize that this was the best way to live? I would say kind of after the pit bull fight,

after I lost the title, I kind of, you know, cause I always wanted to be undefeated. I wanted to be the Floyd of MMA. I wanted to be the next Khabib and just be an outstanding person inside and outside of the court, the cage. So with that, I just, I kind of let it go, you know, I used it as motivation to come

back stronger, bigger, better. And then from there I'm like, okay, well, what's next? Like you're trying to chase people down. That might not happen. So you got to just grow up, let it go. You know, it is what it is and onto the next, like do do what's going to make you happy. What's going to make you better? What's going to help you succeed? But at the end of the day, I'm grateful for that because it's what kind of massaged my mindset to get into that. Just not not really nonchalant,

but like, if it's not in your control, then what's the point of fixating on it? You know what I mean? Fixate on something that you can control that can benefit your lifestyle, and that's just kind of where I'm at now. I love it, man. What does your dad think about this? Oh, he's loving it.

Your dad had a chip on his shoulder the size of freaking Brazil when he was a fighter until the very end. And I know we're not always like our dad, but this is a completely different vibe. Yeah, I'm quiet, man. I'm quiet. I'm calm. I'm cool.

I'm just very to myself. You know, I sit at home and I play video games all day and I go to the car shop and work on my cars. That's a great life to me. I got my dogs, I got my sister, my brothers. They're all up front. I can go be bothered with them when I want, and then, okay, you guys are annoying me. I go back to the back, play video games for eight hours.

All right, I'm bored with this. Let's go work on some cars. It's a great life to me. I get to do what I want. By the way, this is our new studio here. I don't know if you could see with the way we're positioned, but I have a little like a body shop section here. Can you see it?

We got, we got, you see, we got Kimbo here. We got Kimbo here. I see Kimbo. We got the mercenary right here, right next to him. Hey. We got you right there. You see that? That's what's up. Yeah. That's what's up, yeah

Right there So I know junior is with you. You see that. Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay I just wanted to make sure I couldn't hear you because I didn't have the headphones in but you are you are represented In that corner. So this is great. I love this mindset when when do you want to return? You want to get another one in this year? Definitely, you know, that's what I've always said. Fight activity, I'm not hurt, throw me back in there. Let's get back in there ASAP.

So I'm gonna take a couple of weeks off, chill, go get tatted a little bit more, try to get my sleeves done and continue to train, man. Train, do better, be better. But I'm pretty sure we were sitting down talking with PFO and we'll get back in there probably before the end of the year, so just gotta get things worked out and when it happens, it happens.

But for the moment, I'm gonna enjoy a little vacation, go race some cars, shoot some guns, and be American. I love it. Well, enjoy that. Congrats on the win, man. Great to have you back on. Great to see you back. Play some cars, shoot some guns, and be American. I love it. Well enjoy that. Congrats on the win, man. Great to have you back on. Great to see you back.

I said back on track, you said you never left. I'll take your word for it. But great to see you get your hand raised and looking forward to the next one. Thank you, AJ. Thank you, appreciate it, Ariel. Have a good one. There he is, the great AJ McKee,

back at 145, doing big things. And yeah, maybe he'll get that fight against Paul Hughes, but that would have to be at 155. Looks like he's happy at 145. So for now, why not stay around and see how far he can go once again in the featherweight division. He was once the Bellator featherweight champion.

Seems so chill, seems so happy. God bless, we should all be, between him and Atiba, life is good. Now we do have some unfortunate breaking news to report. This came through at around 2 15 Eastern. I used to say breaking news and then it was automatic. Well, but you just said the news broke at 2 15. Yeah, but it's breaking news for us and maybe someone's... said the news broke at 2 15. Yeah but it's breaking news for us and maybe someone's I saw this coming through the wire here the great Ozzy Osbourne has passed away he was 76 years old just made his long-awaited return back home

to Brum Birmingham he had that huge show at Aston Villa just a couple of weeks ago and it was billed as his final, his final big concert and two weeks later he passes. This is incredible. Ozzy Osbourne, the wailing black Sabbath singer turned solo act who took the quote crazy train from a bleak childhood in working class Birmingham, England to heavy metal stardom has died. He was 76. This according to NBC News, his family announced the rock legends passing in a statement. It is with more sadness than mere words can convey that we have to report that our beloved

Ozzy Osbourne has passed away this morning. He was with his family surrounded by love. We ask everyone to respect our family privacy at this morning. He was with his family, surrounded by love. We ask everyone to respect our family privacy at this time." Words of Osborne's demise came more than two weeks after the ailing frontman reunited with his original Black Sabbath bandmates Tony Iommi, Frank you might know better than I, Geezer Butler, and Bill Ward for a triumphant final show on July 5th. That was just 17 days ago. I was witnessed by some 45,000 fans packing Birmingham's Villa Park Soccer Stadium

and by another 5.8 million metalheads around the world who watched it online. Quote, you have no idea how I feel, Osborne said, sitting on a leather throne because he can no longer stand his mascara smeared by tears. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Frank, were you a big Black Sabbath slash Ozzy Osborn fan? Big Black Sabbath fan, still am.

The legacy lives on. Oh yeah. I'm going off the drain on a crazy train. Do do do do do do do do do. You know how I first was introduced to Black Sabbath and Ozzy Osbourne? And before you say the MTV show, incorrect. But the MTV show was great.

Was it not? You were gonna say the MTV show, weren't you? I watched a few episodes. I wasn't really into it. Come on, it was so good. It was huge back, what was that? Did the real metalheads not like it if if something is popular Frank automatically doesn't watch by the fact that I said I'm a huge black Sabbath fan and they were you know, I know but you were that guy that was like I got in early

I was at one of their first shows in the basement to be honest You're just coming along I didn't find it amusing seeing Someone that I had a lot of respect for that was kind of like being made fun of for his drug-induced like mumbling and all that. I don't know. Did you feel like he was being made fun of? Yeah, absolutely. I mean it seemed like they were, that was during that period where everyone, not everyone, he had one. I kind of feel like that was like one of the first Newlyweds Family reality show Rev Run, did anyone watch that one?

No, those were spin-offs What was it called? What was the name of the show? Living with the Osbournes? Living with the Osbournes Eric, I don't think your mic is on Sorry, sorry, I got it Thanks, the Osbournes The Osbournes, wasn't that kind of the first one?

Hogan had one, Hogan knows best If it was not the first one, it was one of the first ones Rev Run, spin-off man, that was a big one. He finished the end of each episode in the bathtub, typing on his Blackberry. Sharon, Jack, what was the daughter's name? Who cares? Kelly, come on, Frank, who cares?

Anyway, there was a second baseman for the Montreal Expos named Mike Lansing. And when the, I don't know if every team had this, but the Expos, every player had his own at bat song. Like, did the Braves have this back in the day? What are you talking about? Walk-up song? Yeah.

Yeah, everyone has that. I thought it was like an Expos thing. What the fuck? Even I knew that. That is like the most baseball thing ever. When was the last time you went to a baseball game? No, but it was like, yeah, but I'm not going, yeah. But I'm not going consistently.

Like, I would go consistently and add, and like I knew Moises' song, I knew Vlad E's song. Yeah, of course, of course. Who are you about to say, someone on the expo's at Crazy Train? Yes, Mike Lansing, our second baseman. More famously, Chipper Jones. Oh my God, 100% he took that from Mike Lansing.

Laser Lansing, Chipper stole that. I saw Chipper recently, he was coaching the Futures game. Did you see him? No, shout out to Larry though. I'm telling you, he's gonna be more associated than it's been known lately. Anyway, it was great. I'm just saying that's how I was introduced,

because I was like, this song, this is a banger right here. And I was like, oh, it's a guy named Ozzy Osbourne. What a legend. If you search crazy train one of those Your guide does not come up. Okay. Here's the thing. I'm not Of course Chipper Jones a Hall of Famer. Yeah speaking of all I'm just saying how I was introduced to the song This is my own personal experience

You stole it you you started Spursion look the craziest part all this that we're gonna have some people still think and then make it more famous You didn't know that walk-up songs were a thing in baseball. I thought it was an expose thing. That's Well, of course. Casting dispersion. Look, the craziest part of all this that we're gonna have to come back to at some point. Some people still think and then make it more famous. You didn't know that walk-up songs were a thing in baseball. I thought it was an Exposed thing. That's, oh boy. You've been Exposed.

Going off the rails on a crazy. Some guy in Montreal's just like, what if we played music when the guys walked up? The guy's like. We were innovators. Is it a... As a fucking genius. To true that Ozzy was a fucking genius, yeah the Ozzy was that was that was the

Connor Henry Sahouda of course what does he say oh my god he said what was that Frank Ozzy was in the WWE Hall of Fame oh yeah oh yeah Captain Louie had a run with him legend anyway. Anyway. Rest in peace. Rest in peace. Yeah. I was sad to see that, but, uh, so happy that he got that final show just 17 days ago. That's incredible.

Um, I thought Frank would have a lot more to offer and I mean, this is like right up your alley. This is the time of mourning. No, it's just- I don't know why we're making a bit out of this. Not, it's not a bit. I thought you would be able to say, yes, he

was unbelievable, uh, in 1983 when he had that show at Wembley Stadium. I thought you would give us like, I'm not a big metalhead. You are. Maybe when the tears stop, I can do what you're asking. And you're accusing us of making this into a bit. I'm legitimately, like I put this in the slack to tee you up so that you can get mentally prepared for it.

Did I break the news to you? No, actually, I'm too busy eating the head off of a bat right now. That's how I learned about Ozzie. The bat. Doc Smith in the chat wants to know if you also think that the Expos are the only team that sells hot dogs at games. So hot dogs wasn't a big thing. We would have beaver tails, Cue de Castor, which was like flat fried bread, crust, a little crust, so it was almost like, it was almost like the Karate Combat Pit.

It was flat and there's like a little wall and then you'd either put Nutella, Nutella and banana. Oh yeah. Apple cinnamon. That was a big pit. I had one when I was in Montreal. You did? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A beaver tail. Oh wow, okay, here I am explaining it to you, and you've had it I was waiting for the karate combat pit comparison Having known it I was wondering if you were gonna make that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know poutine yeah, yeah They saw this at expose course yes, that's all I just want to say something to bring some order to all this From the article a brief history of the baseball walk-up song by Paulo Camacho for Medium. He wrote this on his Medium. Where is it?

The walk-up song began in an unexpected place on the fingertips of an Oregon player. Nancy Faust, a club organist that played for the Chicago White Sox starting in 1970, started the tradition by playing each player's home state song when they walked up to the plate. So not the Montreal Expos, unfortunately. started the tradition by playing each player's home state song when they walked out to the plate. So, not the Montreal Expos, unfortunately.

Okay, well, Expos came in, I believe it was, 69? 68. 69, check that. You're going to try to go toe-to-toe with me for Expos history. April 1969 was their first game at Shea Stadium. Right or wrong? Right or wrong? Right or wrong? Right or wrong? Founded May 27, 1968.

That's founded. That's when they announced that they were gonna be a team. When was their first game? Oh, these are two different questions. Nah, stop it. You're going against the guy who was born and raised at Gary Park. Jerry, for fuck's sake.

First game was, I think it was like April 14th. Is that possible? And they won, I do believe 10 to nine. And then like a week into their history, I believe Bill Stoneman threw a no hitter. The Expos, April 8th, 1969 against the New York Mets. The Expos won the game. Yes, Chase Stadium, 11 to 10.

11 to 10. First time a Canadian team played in Major League Baseball Jean Drapeau the mayor of Montreal threw out the first pitch at Chase Stadium from the stands Didn't even bring him out on the field and let's go full circle here. Tripper Jones named his kid Shay because wow That's true Because he had so much success against the Mets and the Mets actually took it a step further

and they tore down Shea Stadium and built City Field because they were so embarrassed about how badly Chipper Jones dominated them. Wow, that is a step further. Shout out to Larry, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, legend. Anyway, most importantly, shout out to the great Ozzy Osborne.

Did wanna bring up a couple things before we go hard out 343. I'm seeing a lot of people, by the way, could we call it like we see it here? Has Brendan- I want you to call it exactly how you see it. Has Brendan Shaw been kinda cooking lately? I mean, I feel like he's had a few bangers lately.

He's definitely had some bangers. I wanna say the last banger he had, he was wearing the war hat as well. Oh wow, I don't know about that. Also, is it blonde Brendan now? Blonde Brendan is a thing, and perhaps that's been the difference. I saw him cooking with regards to the state of MMA media.

A lot of people wanted me to weigh in on that. I was like, no, this is his time. Let him say his piece. And then... How about the shout outs for Pizzi Chuck? Pizzi Chuck, multiple shout outs for Pizzi and your son multiple shout outs for pizza and Chuck loved it Brendan Brendan's on one and I saw him respond to him not to Moicano But I wanted to listen to the hand out to Moicano clip because I'll be honest. I

Didn't hear so he not to Moicano. I believe on his show said he didn't take the the the settlement money the antitrust Sett settlement money is this true that's correct do we have the clip I remember my first fight in USC was 8-8 was 8-8 to fight and then what they say is hey you know that 8-8 that was wrong with you because he take they take advantage of you is the same thing you know you have a girl and then somebody talked to the guy that guy abused you and then and that so that's what I'm girl and then somebody talk to the guy, hey, the guy abuse you and this and that. So that's what I'm saying.

And then they did the lawsuit and the fucking lawyer was calling me like every week. And he was saying, hey, you have to sign that, you have to sign that. And even a girl went to the gym to America top, she say, you have to sign that. I'm looking like to everybody that has the fair share. If you did not sign, they're going

to split your money on the other fighters. They're not going to get the money back. Of the 700 fighters, only three or four did not accept, but they don't say the names. Three or one of only a handful. Yes. I'm saying that because, man, if you like what USA was created, like free market,

you have to, it's the same thing that I was saying about Ben Askren, you know, you have to do your part of the deal, you know, you have to, you cannot take advantage of people. But the problem is the mindset of people now is now UFC is fucking rich, they can do that, you know. It's not like that, bro, you have to honor your part. Okay, so a few things on that.

And shout out to the Show Me the Money podcast. Henato and the boys do a great job. We have to consider the source. And what I mean by that is, Henato Moekano is a brilliant human being. I don't use that word lightly. I think he is a brilliant human being. He is very smart when it comes to economics and business.

We have exemplified that on the show. Whether you agree with his stance or not, he is very clearly a learned man, a smart man, an intelligent man, I think a brilliant human being. And so you have to consider the source. If this was just sort of any kind of Johnny-come-lately fighter who's weighing in,

who maybe doesn't have the interest in economics as clearly Moicano does, all right, then we say like this guy's just trying to curry favor, this guy's just trying to hope that the UFC recognizes this and be a bootlicker. But he has his reasons and so ultimately, ultimately we have to respect those reasons, those feelings. He didn't want to take the money, do I think he should have? Absolutely. Do I think the UFC will punish any fighter who is active, who took the money?

No, I don't. But he has his reasons, and so I say we respect that. Now on social media, Brendan posted this clip, and I actually agree with Brendan in the sense that, yeah, any fighter out there should take the money. I don't feel super strong about it. Like do whatever you want. It's your life.

It's your bank account. It's your family. It's your stance. God bless. If you feel strongly about it, then I respect it. Brendan posted UFC fighters turning down the antitrust lawsuit. Money is absolutely mind blowing to me to say the least. And then he posted the clip.

Moicano responded to that saying it has nothing to do with the UFC. I don't expect the UFC to treat me well because of this. The UFC is a company. A company doesn't quote-unquote like you. They want to profit. This is about principles. I knew about the deal. I signed the contract. A contract is nothing more than your word. I'm not going back on my word just to gain a financial benefit. I don't expect anyone to understand that. And so again, he has his reasons. Ultimately, I don't think taking the money represents going back on your word

or spitting in their face or not honoring your deal. It has just been deemed that you were owed a little bit more. And so, yeah, initially when I heard about this, I was like, man, I'm surprised Hinata, who is so well versed in this world, in the world of economics and does a great job of educating himself would feel this way. But if this is the way he feels, then so be it. Ultimately, it seems like the vast majority of the fighters

who were subjected to the money didn't feel this way because at least as he said, I have not verified this, but he says around three to four to five fighters didn't accept the money. That doesn't surprise me as well. It's free money. You're owed that money. The UFC has said, we're not going to penalize you for taking this money.

We agree to the money. We agree to the money. Here's Cowboy Cerrone saying, yeah, I'll take his share. Don't worry. I'll take everyone's if they don't want it. And by the way, Cowboy is a company man. I mean, he was a part of the MN AAA for six minutes and then went back on it once he got a phone call. He is a company man and there's nothing wrong with being a company man, but look, he feels that way.

What did Mayhem say? I didn't see what Mayhem said. Thanks for the extra couple bucks, Hinato. Is this the thing? Are a lot of people saying this? I mean, yeah, I guess it got dispersed. How much of it got dispersed, who knows? But at first glance I was surprised, but you know, that's ultimately how he feels. God bless. It doesn't surprise me from the perspective that this is not an economic thing for Henatam Waikano. This is a contractual thing, right? A my word is bond thing. He is saying you can't retroactively, his position is essentially I signed a contract knowing the terms of the contract like anybody who signs a contract if then retroactively

years from now you want to say that contract was a faulty contract I'm going to stick to what the contract term set at the time we fulfilled it and I move on so I get it's a principal thing more than a very noble thing but the court has said and by the way the UFC said yes we agree that you're going to pay this yes take this and he's saying I signed it at the time and I sign it now he's he's essentially signing it again yeah he's saying I you you told me this were the terms and now you're telling me these are the new terms I'm actually signing for the old terms again I'm saying I do not want these new terms and I I, like you, disagree

with that stance. I feel like it's ludicrous, it's outrageous, but he is thinking from the perspective of larger principles. That is why he's saying the founding principles of America and understanding the free market. So I don't know, maybe it works against him in this scenario, but monetarily, it feels like this conversation doesn't even involve the money for him, you know? Yeah. Again, a little bit surprising, but he's standing on business, as they say,

so more power to him. I do wanna address one more thing. Last week, we had this whole back and forth with Turkey, I'll shake. I'm not going to get into that all over again. It has come and gone and it's not something that I'm hoping to do here. But on Thursday, I did see someone who works for the ring, who works for Turkey.

I think his name is Rick Reno. Long been in the boxing business for a long time. I believe he was a part of the boxing scene business. It all kind of first started on Wednesday night where the ring did an interview where it was Turkey, and then part of the boxing scene business. It all kind of first started on Wednesday night, where the ring did an interview where it was Turkey sitting next to Rick, sitting next to Mike Coppinger. And they were talking about me. And all of a sudden, I think they've convinced themselves

that I'm the enemy here, that I'm a bad guy, or anything like that. And then on Thursday, here's the ring, one of the most prestigious publications in all of boxing has been around for over a hundred years. I mean, it has its own belt. It's the undisputed, all this stuff.

Here's the Ring posting videos about me where Rick Reno is in a hotel room talking about what he doesn't like about me, what he doesn't respect about me. I've never met this guy. I've never had a conversation with this guy. I just found out about him because all of a sudden. I've never met this guy, I've never had a conversation with this guy. I just found out about him because all of a sudden he's showing up at the events standing there, dressed in this outfit that they're trying to play this gimmick that he's, you know, some big wig wearing fancy clothes. And he's

talking about what he doesn't like about me and he was responding to some of the things that I said because I say that Uncrowned is the only unbiased combat sports outlet left that touches MMA, boxing, pro wrestling. We don't have any financial ties to any promoters. We're not in bed with anyone. And he says, I got receipts. I have receipts on Ariel.

I have receipts on him. And then he proceeds to talk for a couple of minutes about how he knows that there was an article posted on Uncrowned that was an editorial piece about the zone, and I had it taken down. I had it taken down, and that just proves that Ariel is biased. There's my receipts. And people were sending this to me and I was like, that's it? That's the receipt? That's like the big thing,

the ring posted this video about me? So let me take it one step further because he didn't have the balls to do so. Number one, that article was written by Keith Idek who worked for Uncrowned, who we hired him. I said he was one of my first picks. I was so excited to work with him. I had a tremendous amount of respect for him,

still have a lot of respect for him. Don't love how all this has kind of come out, but if we're going to talk about it, let's just tell the truth about the whole thing. Shortly after joining us, Keith gets an offer to work for the Ring as well. I said, great, I hope you could work for both of us. Not too long after all of that, Keith gets another offer to work full-time for the Ring. I didn't stop him.

I didn't try to convince him otherwise. I didn't try to stop him from making more money or anything like that. We tried to figure it out, but ultimately he had to do what's best for him and his family and it was very nice and cordial and respectful and we said good luck, wish you all the best. So it wasn't stopping anyone for you know reaching at their dreams or for bettering their life or anything like that. In around November or so, Keith did write an article on the site where he was very critical of Dazon. Now we had just started our show with Dazon, the Ariel and Adé show, and upon reading

it, I felt like there was a slant. I felt like he had an axe to grind. And yeah, it was a little awkward that an article like this is posted on the site while we just start this business relationship with a network, not a promoter, with a network that is in business with multiple promotions. So if you even want to go a step further and say like, oh, you're biased because you're in business with a network that's in business with one promoter, then okay, I can understand. You can't be biased towards his own because they're a business with essentially everyone,

not named Top Ring. So then you're biased towards every promotion. It doesn't exist. The ultimate reason, and he said in all his years, in all his years of being in the business, he never had a story taken down. He said the same to me. Guess what?

In all my years of being in this business, I never took down a story as well. My own or never pushed to have someone else's. And the ultimate reason why we took it down was because it's not a good article. It was not a good article. There was a bias, there was a slant, and I didn't want that on the site. That was it. We have not taken anything down since or before that. So this guy is trying to say that the reason we took it down is, you know, they're biased and they're first of all you guys are in business with Dizone Much more lucrative business that we're in I just do a show for them

Which you know Turkey told the world on on Wednesday is not doing well and they're considering canceling it trying my best If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It was a fun thing that we're doing on the side from everything here We're enjoying it. But if it doesn't work out and they doesn't work out, it was a fun thing that we're doing on the side from everything here, we're enjoying it, but if it doesn't work out and they want to tell me something, then God bless. But this guy wants to come on and say, oh, he's biased because he took down this article. The reason I took down the article was it was shit. It was a bad article and it was biased and it had a slant and I didn't think there was good reporting being exemplified in this article.

And yeah, it was a little bit awkward that an article like this would be posted on the site when we get into business with a network and we're a one month old outfit. You guys posting that type of stuff, that type of commentary about your business partners on the ring? I highly doubt it. And they like to say how Ariel says it's not about the money. It's not about the money. I never said it's not about the money. I just said, I don't want your money. Of course it's about the money. We're all trying to better our lives.

We're all trying to advance. I never said it's not about the money. I've never tried to stop anyone from earning. Everyone who works for Uncrowned could work for other people. No one's on an exclusive deal, including Frankie. Frankie could work. Frankie has another job, for goodness sakes. Oh man.

Right, Frankie? Oh man, we're exposing that? Go out there, live your dreams. I've not stopped anyone. They're coming to our people and saying, we need you exclusive. They're trying to take our, so they're trying to spin this whole thing into this fight with me. I didn't ask for this fight. I don't want this fight.

I see them sitting there talking about me. They can't even say my name. Turkey's sitting there with Kopinger and Reno not since not since 1998 when when Pat Patterson and Gerald Briscoe were on TV as Vince McMahon, Stooges have we seen Stooges like these guys like so tell me about this reporter guy like say it brother say my name what are you so afraid of going around telling people you don't like me they don't respect me what are you so worried about what are you so threatened by?

These guys are posting videos on their official account about me. What did I do? What did I do to disrespect you guys? Other than talk about what you're doing in the most positive light. Yeah, of course you're posting pictures about Shakur Stevenson. Of course I'm going to ask him about it. Yeah, of course you're getting into this like bidding war with Canelo and MVP. Of course I'm going to ask them about it. That's news. That's like, that's sports talk fodder, of course. But there's no malice.

There's no negativity surrounding it. All of it has been positive. All of it has been when they announced the Zufa deal, I was very positive. Go back and watch it. But someone has convinced them that I'm the enemy, that I'm the bad guy. Or maybe someone has convinced them that it's good for business to be in this sort of battle with me.

I didn't pick this fight, I didn't want this fight, I don't want this battle, I want nothing to do with it. So this idea is like we can continue, I'm not trying to continue anything, but when people are gonna come online and make up lies about me or my website or the people that work for me or the people that work for me or the people that work with me

or who have worked for me or who have worked on the website, yeah, I'm gonna defend myself. Yeah, I'm gonna stick up for myself because this is nonsense. That story was nonsense. Come out and say it, tell the truth. Say who the writer was, say exactly what happened.

Come out and say it. Show the article, post it. Post it on the ring right now who the writer was. Say exactly what happened. Come out and say it. Show the article. Post it. Post it on the ring right now. I dare you. Post that same article on the ring. It still stands. It's a hit piece on Dazon. Post that article on the ring right now and see how Dazon feels about it. And we'll take it one step further. See how the public feels about it. You tell me if that's a good article. If that's a balanced, appropriate article and you can hide behind it being an opinion piece all you want. He had an axe to grind. And I love Keith and I would welcome him back with open arms, but we didn't have to get into

the mud here. Like this is silliness. So you guys can, you could try to keep throwing shots at us, you could try to keep taking our people, you could try to keep hurting us, whatever it is. You could talk about, you know, our business relationship with the zone. You could try to end it, which I'm sure is in the process. You could try to do all that stuff. We'll still be here, still doing this show, doing our other shows, independent, unbiased,

not beholden to anyone, not having to ask anyone for anything, the only ones not asking for handouts, asking for favors, asking for gifts, asking for salaries, asking for whatever it is, we'll still be doing our thing here, keeping it real, keeping it honest, keeping it a buck, keeping it 100. As the kids like to say, standing on business. As Moikano was doing in that clip. And I'm not even sure how we got from Moikano to this, but I had to get that off my chest because I was watching this. I didn't even respond to it on Thursday because I was like, this is ridiculous. This is ludicrous. I didn't ask for any of this and I don't even know why they're concerning themselves with all that. On the official account, I mean the state of these guys, on the account talking about me and our website

on a massive undisputed heavyweight title fight week, what is going on? What has become of this entity? I think the stuff that Turkey has done has been incredible. He has given us incredible fights. Show me footage. Show me any type of example of me knocking it. Show me. Show me me knocking it. Show me saying it was bad for the sport, bad for business. Show me anything. In fact, I told Shaheen, I said we should do an uncrowned top 25 biggest power players in

combat sports. One you could get out of the way off the bat, it's him. He's the most powerful guy, the most influential guy in what he's done in combat sports since bursting onto the scene in 2023 has been nothing short of revolutionary. Getting all these promoters to work together, show me. And then all of a sudden I'm blindsided by all of this. It's craziness. So I don't know if it's like a work,

I don't know if it's some gimmick stuff, but like I said, I want nothing to do with it But these two guys tweedle d and tweedle dumb over here, you know, like taking shots at us. Ain't no way Ain't no fucking way Empowered now because they're you know, they're they're the stooges to turkey empowered. Fuck that Go pick a fight with someone else. Not here. Not here, my friends. All right. I think we're out of time.

We got a Dzone show to do at five o'clock, hard out 354. Damn right we do. Yeah. Ellie Scotney is going to join us. Andy Lee is going to join us five o'clock Eastern on the Dzone YouTube channel. Catch it while you can baby. Eastern on the Dazon YouTube channel. Catch it while you can baby or on the Dazon app. Looking forward to it. Myself and Adé, we got a lot to talk about. Daniel Dubois, Oleksandr Usyk, Manny Pacquiao, Bam Rodriguez, Clarissa Shields returning this weekend.

Huge fight for her. Lani Daniels. Is she gonna fight Jadej Green? Is she gonna fight Leila Ali? She came out with a thing on TMZ saying she has a $15 million offer to fight Leila Ali. That would be insane. Tomorrow on the program my friends. Oh my gosh, tomorrow is gonna be insane. Tomorrow on the program my friends. Oh my gosh tomorrow is gonna be insane. Darren Till, Luke Rockhold, virtual face-to-face on the show. Tony Ferguson also gonna be joining us. They're having a press conference for

Misfits 22. Till Rockhold, Tony Ferguson, after the press conference, they're gonna be joining us. Did you believe this? That's awesome. Till Rockhold fighting August 30th, Ferguson fighting Saltpuff. So they're gonna join us tomorrow live on the program. I wonder if we'll get like DC and Jones.

Remember that one? Hey blank, are you still there? All timer. One of the best. Great show today. Thank you to Shu Shu Carrington. Thank you to Robert Whitaker. Thank you to Atiba Gautier.

Thank you to AJ McGee. Thanks to you. Thanks to them. Back to RCA. Peace out.