The Ariel Helwani Show - Sean Brady, plus Diamond Dallas Page, Danny Garcia, and Jeff Pearlman all in studio

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Ariel Helwani kicks off the show by recapping his experience at the Colombia vs. Canada soccer game, before Petesy Carroll joins to react to Ian Machado Garry’s comments from Tuesday’s show. The Boys in the Back jump in to discuss the appeal of Contender Series and its potential next landing spot (02:09).Sean Brady is back to talk about accepting his fight against Michael Morales, not wanting to wait around for another opponent, No. 1 contender fights no longer being guaranteed by the UFC, feeling like the promotion wants Carlos Prates to emerge from the welterweight pack, and more (38:08).Youngster Steven Spice joins to discuss “Supercar Saints,” the film chronicling his journey with a brain disorder and the celebrities he met along the way, including Daniel Cormier and John Cena. He also expresses his love of pro wrestling and asks Ariel for journalism advice (1:00:59).Boxer Danny Garcia joins Ariel in-studio to preview his fight against Daniel Gonzalez, his 10th time headlining Barclays Center in Brooklyn. After suggesting it might be the final fight of his illustrious career, he give his thoughts on Zuffa Boxing’s entry into the sport, championship belts, potential amendments to the Ali Act, the top fights of his career, boxing’s best promoters, and more (1:19:31).Journalist Jeff Pearlman is in-studio to preview his new Tupac biography, “Only God Can Judge Me,” telling never-before-told stories about the rapper’s complicated life and legacy. He touches on his other media endeavors, including his New York Times best-selling books and podcast (1:53:55).Wrestling legend Diamond Dallas Page is back on the show, this time in studio, to promote his “Change or Die” docuseries, where he helps people, including boxer Butterbean, make healthy lifestyle changes. He looks back at wrestling storylines from years past, including an angle involving Undertaker’s wife, and reminisces about career moments involving Vince McMahon, The Rock, Hulk Hogan, and others (2:55:27).

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Eri-A-R-I-V-I-D-Y show. Back in your life on this Wednesday, October 15, 2000. And 25, hello again, everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. It is great to be here on a. lovely, lovely Wednesday in New York City. It's been a great week so far. It's been a great string of shows. Great lineup of guests. Yesterday was a very special day for me having my family here. Not the first time, but it always feels a little bit different, a little more special.

When the kids are back there, when they're watching, they're off from school, a couple of cameos. It just really warms my heart. And they've reached an age where they kind of appreciate it. They want to come. I don't know if they want to come to see their dad's work or just to get raising canes. Probably a little bit of both. Yeah, yeah. But they enjoy it nonetheless. They enjoy coming to the big city. They enjoy coming to the office.

And that makes me feel very good. So yesterday was a great day. The chats were great. Polly was great. Everyone was great. And then after the show, after the show, as I told you yesterday, I actually went to Colombia. versus Canada in Harrison, New Jersey, Sports Illustrated Stadium, formerly known as Red Bull Arena,

which I always thought was a weird name because why would an open-air stadium be called an arena? And I also think it's a little bit weird that Sports Illustrated bought the naming rights to set arena because Sports Illustrated isn't what it once was, but maybe they're using it as a brand in any event. We left like two hours early, and we almost missed kickoff because we start to get there

and there is an insane traffic jam. I mean, if anyone's ever been to Sports Illustrated Stadium, Red Bull Arena for a Red Bulls game, or, you know, they'll have, you know, the odd concert or something like that there. You'll know it's a pretty nice venue. It's a pretty nice-sized stadium.

They built it kind of in the middle of nowhere in Harrison, but they've now done a great job of building things around it. Apartments, restaurants, they've cleaned it up. There's train station, all that and more. But there's just not a lot of parts. and I've been there a few times, but never for a big game. And so I thought that, you know, this place would be 50% full. Why is Columbia playing Canada on a random Tuesday night in October? Well, I could have been more wrong. And as I was charting and tracking the tickets on all the

different apps, they weren't going down. In fact, it felt like they were going up and they were very expensive. I didn't quite understand it. I thought it was a Canadian home game. I couldn't have been more wrong. I feel like I just came back from a trip to Columbia. I feel like I was in Medellian. I feel like I was I was literally at a Colombian national soccer team home game. This is the national anthem. Do you see how many yellow shirts there are? Do you see how loud it is? Can you feel it? Can you hear it?

I was in Columbia last night. I swear there were no Canadian fans just take a listen let's listen let's listen together I'm filming this those are my kids in a state of shock

where are we anyone in other words? Anyone in other words? beautiful do you know the words Andy no I know the Venezuelan one no I know and that's not because I think that you are from Columbia no they're all the same no that's not true I know the words to France's national anthem I'm not French

I know the words that God save the king God save our great I know the words so you lived you lived closer so that's all that's all that's all similar colored flags everyone relax everyone relax anyway if you're wondering what it sounded like when the canadian national anthem played uh here it is and by the way you'll notice a familiar voice Similar enthusiasm, what's like that? Yeah.

Ah, chills. Man, 8.30 p.m.? Yeah. Okay. That's a late kick. God, guys, the game was supposed to start at 8. It's just like they casually decided to start it at 8.30. There was no...

So we parked 30 minutes away from the arena and sprinted a mile and a half. A mile and a half to try to make it in time for the anthem. And then we get there at 7.57. and we're like sweating, huffing, and puffing, and we're like, okay, what's happening here? What's going on? Why are we starting 30 minutes late? I got to say, though, I was blown away by the patriotism, by the enthusiasm, by the crowd. They were treating this like it was a true World Cup qualifier.

In fact, it was just a friendly. But what I realized was Columbia is playing these games around the Northeast, around America, because I think they can just charge more, and there's a huge fan base here, and they can make a lot of money here, and it makes sense. They've already qualified. They're going to City Field next month to play Nigeria. All the ads were in Spanish. They were all, like it was like a Colombian cell phone, Colombian betting company.

The PA announcer was speaking in Spanish the whole time. Even Canada was spelt with the little accent-a-guet thing on the back of the A. That was an important question. Yes, yes. When they called for goals, did they say it in Spanish or in English? Well, in the end, it ended zero-zero, unfortunately. Nill, nil. But I tweeted it.

Jonathan David scored in what should have been a goal and they called it an offside. I will say the refs were a little com si comsat, a few favorable calls. But we had tremendous seats. I mean, I think I gave a video. No, I don't think I gave a video.

I mean, the intensity. Here we are, and this is how nice the people were. I forgot my flag, so I just held up my sweatshirt, my hoodie as my flag, as you could see, repping the red and white. We took a couple of pictures like that,

and then the fans, in front of us who were like looking at us said no no no no no you have to take it like this and they put those those hats on my kids heads and they loved it those were not our hats everyone was so kind everyone was so nice they were into it there were a couple times where they almost scored and everyone it was deafening it was such a privilege to be there i had such a good time if you are in the northeast area and columbia's playing go watch go watch if you have no rooting interest, go watch. Got to see Luis Diaz, got to see Jaimez Rodriguez, got to see, of course, my boys, Jonathan David, and Lorea was great, Alastair Johnson didn't play, got to see my boy

Tejohn Buchanan of Syracuse. Anyway, it was a great time. It made me so excited for the World Cup, made me think that it's going to be an absolute mess of a situation as far as parking and driving and all that when the World Cup comes to the U.S. and Canada and Mexico next summer. But I had grand old time. So shout out to the Colombian fans. Shout out to Colombia. Good luck to you guys. I actually took it as a victory. I thought nil-nil against Colombia, considering we lost to Australia on Friday was a nice little result for us. Composed, poise, relaxed out there, aggressive. I thought it was a really nice game. So that's what I did last night. And that's why I'm feeling good about life, despite the fact that my other sports teams are all faltering at the moment.

We are very excited about game three. We're excited about game three. today in Seattle. We're very excited about that, and we're very excited about today's show. In about 22 minutes time, we're going to be joined by Sean Brady, who is fighting Michael Morales. We got Ian Machado Gary's side of the story, more on him in a second, yesterday. We're learning more about the whole welterweight title picture. We know JDM versus Islam on November 15th. Let's hear from Sean and why this fight is happening and not the Gary fight or some other fight. So we'll talk to him about that at about 1.35. At about 2 o'clock, a young man named Stephen Spice, who you may not be familiar with, but you will no doubt fall in love with, is going to join us to talk about

his life, his journey, and you'll understand why he's on the show when he comes on. Just trust me on this one, his name is Stephen Spice, and he's an inspiration. At about 220, the legendary former two-division boxing champion, Danny Garcia, Danny Swift, is this close to calling it a career. He came out of retirement in 2022, had another fight in 2024, but he's saying this is his swan song, and this Saturday in Brooklyn at the Barclays Center

will have his final fight there. No one has headlined more events as far as boxing is concerned at Barclays. This will be his 10th. His first one was in 2012. He's going up against a guy named Danny Gonzalez of Queens. This fight will air on Millions.com pay-per-view. He has one, maybe two fights left.

We're seeing Drawn Boots Ennis do his thing coming out of Philly. He was a guy who represented Philly on the biggest of stages. He had a great interview in 2022 with Jim Gray after his first comeback, if you will. And he talked about mental health and everything that he was dealing with. I'm looking forward to having Danny Garcia in studio to talk about this fight in his career coming up at about 220. Hopefully it goes better than the Pauli Malinaji chat. at 3 o'clock, my friends, perhaps my favorite writer in all of sports will be stopping by. His name is Jeff Perlman.

He has written 10 books and soon to be 11. Well, technically he wrote the 11th. It's right here. But this book comes out next week, October 21st, to be exact. It's called Only God Can Judge Me, the Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. It's his first non-sports book. But let me tell you, if you're a fan of Jeff Perlman's, you should read this. If you're a fan of Tupac Shakur's, you should read this. If you are a fan of

good writing and journalism and research, you need to read this. I was blown away by the research, by the journalism, the investigative journalism. It's an unbelievable read. It really is. And he's doing great things. He's huge on YouTube. He's got a great YouTube channel. He's got a great podcast. He's got great stuff on TikTok as well. He's written books on the USFL, on Bo Jackson, on Brett Farrv, on the Kobe Shack, Phil Jackson Lakers, on the Showtime Lakers. I mean, he's really a prolific, prolific writer. He's, I believe, seven times on the New York Times bestseller list. We'll have to confirm that with him.

One great story right off the bat starts the book, and I want him to tell it, if he wants to tell it, about the song Brenda's Got a Baby. I highly recommend it, and I know it's a bit of a different chat for this show, but I hold him in the highest of regards, and I hope you will understand why if you're unfamiliar with him. just a great, great writer, great journalist formerly of Sports Illustrated. The story that kind of put him on the map was the John Rocker story back in 1999, the Seven Train, the Mets, all that stuff.

And I had him on the Ariel Hawani show when we were just relaunching the podcast back in 22 on Air Jordan was helping me out with that as well, TST, and it was a great chat. I'm really looking forward to having him in studio. And then we'll round out the day, my friends, with the master of the diamond cutter. not the thing that Sergio Pettis was doing after the win a couple weeks ago, the actual diamond cutter, diamond dallas page, the prolific, the inimitable, the one and only, DDP, bang, down, down, down, great storyteller, the master of DDP yoga, he's got a new show out on 2B called Change or Die.

He's doing incredible things. He's one of the most inspirational human beings I've ever come across, motivational as well, helping everyone out under the sun. He's got a lot of exciting things to talk about it. So DDP will join us in studio as well. That's three in studio guests today, plus arguably the number one contender in the welterweight division, something for everyone, I like to say truly on this program. And I'm always proud of that, always loving to expose people to new characters, go deeper with some old faces, and obviously talk about the news of the day. I mentioned Ian Gary. I was curious, Pizzi, I didn't ask you this. So I apologize.

apologize if I'm putting you on the spot. Did you watch Ian's interview on the show yesterday? I did, did. Of course I did. I'm always curious to get your take on Ian because you've known him for so long and I found that there was an intensity, especially at the end to him. He's very much pushing this. I'm going to finish this guy, you know, angle, which I kind of feel like is just putting unnecessary pressure on himself because Balal, as we've talked about, like he doesn't get finished easily. Last time he got finished was 2016. He's a hard guy to put out, especially in three rounds. Just curious as to what you took away, what you thought of. the interview and how Ian came across. I think I completely understand why he's looking at this fight and thinking he can do some serious work here. I think he's looking at the version of Balala fought JDM and thinking if he comes and fights me like that, I think it's an easy night's work for me. And I think he's right about that.

I genuinely think that Gary is a very confusing striker. I think people don't realize how confusing he is until they get in there with him. Like Pratch is a great example. Look at him since that fight. Look at him in there and that fight. Look at Michael Venom Page, a guy who spent his life strike, and he's in there with Ian, and it's a lot more complicated. And look, he is dynamic against MVP. We saw him shooting takedowns and things like that.

I think he means everything he says, but at the same time, I agree with you. I think in some ways he's a guy that, you know, has a contentious relationship with a lot of the fan base. And I think he provides them with a stick to beat him with sometimes in the lead up to a fight when he's saying, it's a finisher. You know, I've got to get a finish here. If I finish this guy, I get a title. I actually agree with that. I think if he does finish Bilal, I think that's going to be hard

for any of this other welterweight closer to top. And again, understand if J.D., if he comes out like he did against Jadian, would be so confident about that. But at the same time, he's going to give him the UFC and out and he's given the fan base to stick to beat him

with if he doesn't end up doing that in November. I think it's going to be one of those cases where it's like, all right, who looked the best, right? I don't even think, look, you finish Balala, you're probably in pole position. but there's so many fights happening in that one week stretch seven days as we talked about

protest and Leon Sean Brady and Morales Gary and blah it's not good enough to win it's really not like I thought it was I thought it was a shoe in Brady versus Gary that's the fight number one contender it's right there but we still don't know what's up with Shavkat

I'm still trying to figure that out but the point is those guys kind of all have to have that mentality Like, anyone who wins via decision is out. You have to do something spectacular. Now, if they all win a decision, that's a different story. But I think he's right to have that mentality. He is putting a lot of pressure.

It is not easy to do that. But I think one person has to get a finish in spectacular fashion in order to separate themselves from the pack because if not, you're not getting that title shot. And I don't think, I heard Sean Brady say it on his podcast and we'll talk to him about it. Like, the rankings don't mean anything. They really don't.

because if they did, it would be Brady versus Gary or Shafkat who's coming back. Like if Michael Morales gets an incredible knockout, if Prachas knocks out, Leon, those guys might get the next title shot. Absolutely. And look, this is a perfect microcosm of what you're explaining here.

Pratchez could end up in that situation and he's been beaten by Ian Gary. Ian Gary has been beaten by Shavkat, yet if he goes in and does something against Balal, he will leap ahead too. The currency in this sport is spectacular. and if you are going in there and you're putting an exclamation mark

on your performance it will push you to the top of the queue I think Ian is the hardest task there in terms of finishing below I think when I look at like Brady couldn't agree more

Morales I think Brady can have a wonder like if he his strength is where Morales's weaknesses is also Morales hits like a juggernaut we've seen Sean Brady get knocked out

I think either of those guys could win in spectacular fashion. I think against Balal, it's very difficult. We saw the shots that Balal took against JDM. They were substantial, substantial shots, and he kept coming forward. I think the biggest path of victory of Balal, he probably believes

lies in his wrestling. Ian's wrestling looked very good, to be fair to him. You know, he hasn't, he has never looked completely uncomfortable as far as in a grappling contest. I'm very intrigued to see if that happens, but I do feel like Balal needs to have an intensity to these three rounds. I

keep going back and forth thinking about who the three rounds suits more. Ian also talked about yesterday being a bit lighter. He's not, he's a very tall and rangy welterweight, but he isn't the heaviest of welterweight. I wonder that also can work both ways, right?

Like you're thinking about Ian's style, he's a slick striker, he strikes from the outside. Having a bit less weight and being even more slick than he was before will probably help that style of fight. yet a power double against a guy who's a bit loiter and Balal is an absolute unit and I can see that working in his favor too

it's very very interesting and he set himself up here in terms of if it isn't a finish it will feel yeah give me this it will feel underwhelming I agree I agree I can't wait I can't wait for that stretch

that MSG card is phenomenal that Qatar Komein is amazing we talked about those those two events in early November, November, I think it's first and eighth, those are a little tough, but then the back end of November is fantastic. This weekend, we have PFL Africa 3, we've got Octagon 78, we've got the return of Phil DeFries. I wish it was a way for Phil DeFries to get more love. He's headlining KSW 111. I wish he could get more love, but I

understand it's over in Poland. And then you've got a nice little card back in the True North strong and free, Canada, in Vancouver, to be exact, one of the most beautiful cities in all of North America, RDR, Renada Ritter against Brendan Allen. You heard it from Claire herself yesterday. She's backing RDR. Kevin Holland against Mike Malotte, Marlon Vera against Amon Zahabi, Mano Furo against Jasmine, Jazzdivisius. So I love the fact that there's three Canadians in the top four fights. Cody Gibson on there, Kyle Nelson, Matt Fravolta, Charles Jordan. There's some good, you know, there's some good Canadian talent. It's a

solid card and they had a nice little, very Canadian-like face-off a couple of days ago. RDR saying he hates the face-offs and he thinks that they are a little bit awkward. Here they are in the great outdoors. Do we have this? Yeah, look at these guys.

Look at this. This is as Canadian as it gets. A beautiful a beautiful day. You got the the Rockies behind them. It was supposed to... going for double denim. Yeah, yeah. That's, by the way, that's kind of a Canadian tuxedo.

You need the denim on top and bottom, but yeah. It was supposed to be RDR versus Fluffy. We talked about the fact that the fact that Fluffy isn't involved. It feels like it's RDR's, you know, it's RDR's chance to take that next step. Obviously, we have Nasurdin. We think it's going to be Nasurdin against Hamza. They haven't really quite said that. But RDR could do something spectacular here and put himself in incredible

spot and really, you know, wins here and a very strong case for one of the breakout stars of 2025 because I don't think a lot of people thought this was going to happen. I think a lot of people thought that Bo Nicol would beat him and he would just kind of be a guy on the roster. So look at him now. Speaking of guys on the roster, and this is not a knock as far as a transition is concerned, but they did wrap up contender series yesterday, this season of Contender Series, and it's been going on amazingly for almost 10 years now, as far as... It's crazy. Yeah, it is insane.

It feels like it was like three years, right? It really does. How about the fact that they've given out in the history of Contender Series 292 contracts as a result of that show? This particular season had the most KOs and most subs on it, and they gave out 46 contracts. Now, when Dana White reads off these stats, he doesn't. does kind of read them off as like, oh, we broke records. But ultimately, they decide. Like, they can decide whether or not they give six contracts, one contract, three contracts. I'm not hating, but they're the ones who are ultimately breaking their own record here. Bottom line, you got

to give the fighters credit. There's been some great performances, great finishes, great knockouts, great subs. And it's good to have these guys on because they're willing to fight on short notice. They're willing to, you know, fight relatively cheap. And you're able to build up stars. entry-level contracts. Entry-level contracts. It's a nice little number. Now, my friend Sandu, Shumatkar Sandu, had this post on his social media. Season 1, Pizzi, 2017. I remember it was going on around the May Mac Press Tour. That's when it first launched. They gave out 16 contracts. 2018, season 2, 23 contracts. Season 3, 2019, 30 contracts. 20-20, season 4, 37. season 5, 21, 39 contracts. 2022, season 6, 43. 2023, season 7, 46. 2024, season 8, 42, and this past one, season 9, 46.

So it's grown from 17, excuse me, 16 in 2017, to 46 in 2025. Does that say anything? Or, like, Brendan Allen wins that fight, the exact same fight in 2025. Does he get a contract? it feels like the it feels like the the standard has shifted for whatever reason

I don't know why but you're trying to say Brandon Locknain should have got a contract what did I say I said Brandon Allen excuse me Brendan and Locknain no no of course

I'm just saying is that not even a thing because I feel like that ended up being a good thing for Brendan Locknane he you know he got big big stuff from a PFL

big contract big money it's all worked out for him of course I know he wanted to be in the UFC but it kind of ended up being part of his identity which isn't the worst thing to have a gimmick like that. It just seems like the standard has changed a little bit

since it first started. Yeah, and look, they have way more events that they have to fill up as well. And, you know, we talk about the tier system with events and there's a lot of apex cards that, you know, aren't as intriguing as your paper views as your location fight nights. They're just, you know, they don't have the same caliber there and they populate a lot of these guys in those cards.

I think it's perfect for fueling the UFC machine. And that's exactly why I think everybody loves it so much. And they've told people that there is a different emphasis when you're fighting on Contender Series. We're looking for killers. Dana-Woy famously told Brennan Locknow in that first season. And that's what they go in there to do. It is like, you know, even last night's show as an example, just full of spellbinding KOs, like really spectacular stuff. But I do, I do have concerns in terms of what it's done to the regional promotions. I know that's a bit of a deep dive, but a lot of these fighters are getting rushed into these situations and straight into the UFC and they can get aid up and spat out a lot quicker.

I think they've changed the focus of regional promotions, particularly ones with management arms who want to get their guys into the UFC, want to keep the machine moving rather than what we used to have the champion like McGregor, like Ian Gary, Patty Pimblet, guys who are built up regionally and we're basically superstars before they were walking in the door of the UFC. I think that's happening a lot less because they're fed into this machine a lot quicker. And just a note on Dana White's

press conference last night, he said like they're going to start doing these internationally. I think that's a bigger conflict again for the looks of your cage warriors, for the other promotions, LFAs, whatever it is on Octagon. Yeah. I mean, if they're taking these shows on the road,

I wonder if that's cutting into their pie a bit, you know? But I'd imagine they'll start in Abu Dhabi and things like that, I doubt we're going to have them popping up in London for absolutely no reason. Maybe one will coincide with the London shows while they're over there. But I think it's all great for the UFC. It all feeds the UFC's business model very, very well, just everyone else. I think they might have slight concerns about that, although I do see the regional promotions shifting their focus, as I mentioned earlier, in terms of the management arms and things like that. It wasn't an official announcement, but

Dana White was asked by I do believe Oscar Willis of the Mac Life, hey, what's up with Contender Series? That was the last sort of piece left as far as all the rights deals, the big story of 2025. And again, there's no press release, there's no official announcement, but he all but said, yeah, all but likely we're going to Paramount as well. And so I never believe, you know, some people I was talking to said, like, you know what, maybe ESPN keeps it because it's just good content. There's a fan base. It stars before. But I never believed that ESPN wasn't going to be in the UFC business why would they keep this? It doesn't make any sense

and if Paramount is all in on the UFC business why wouldn't you want the fights that get the fighters into the UFC and so in case you were wondering and in case you missed it and in case you're a big fan of the product of the brand it sounds like as far as

America is concerned Dana White Contender Series is going to be on Paramount beginning in 2026. There's still if you're keeping tabs on the TKO right steel pie. There's still some things that they can sell off. There's AAA as far as Lucha Libre is concerned. They own that. There's the WWE library. But we're starting to cross them all out and they're going to be, you know, they're going to be pretty well put. There's a lot of

big stories to follow in 2026 as we talked about yesterday regarding rights deals. And for those that may not be interested in this, like this really dictates the health of a promotion, how much they can pay fighters and how many events they can put on. You're looking at top rank right now. They're in a state of purgatory, nothing can happen. They can't put on fights because they don't have a broadcast deal here in America. PFL's deal is up in 2026 at the end of 26. Matchrooms deal is up at the end of 2026 with DeZone as well. I would say those are the two biggest ones. There's some other ones that are probably going to pop up as well, but those are the ones that I'm really looking forward to seeing how they play out. Who watches Contender Series here

religiously? I feel like GC's a big Contender Series guy. Is that accurate? I would not say religiously of the, what, 10 episodes that they did this fall? I probably watched... Start to finish? Start to finish? I only watched, like, three of them. But watch some, probably, like, seven of the 10. And then, like, you're seeing clips from all of them.

I think the guy was Juan Diaz last night to do with the spinning back elbow that, like, echoed throughout the entire arena. So, like, I at least keep up on the results and everything like that. Religious isn't overstatement. Can I ask, I did see that there was a different play-by-play guy this time, and I didn't recognize him. Did you notice? No. I didn't tune in live last night. I only saw the highlights.

Okay, okay, okay. I was just curious if, you know, I was at the soccer game. I was curious if you didn't double screen it? You didn't pull it up on the phone? You know what? One AirPod in, opposite side of the kids. Should be told? I think Joshua.

Should be told? Awful reception in there. I mean, of all the good things I said, I just, there were so many people. I was going to say, it happens when there's the. I'd say you were furious about that, were you? No, I was good. You were in the bathroom, and the bathroom's still a stream. As we're talking about the consumption of Dana White's Contender Series,

is it not the perfect social media product? Is it not the perfect 2025 social media product? Like, truth be told, I don't know how much value you get out of being the broadcast partner for it because, like, you know, there will be an audience that tunes in live. Diehards love it. Diehard's love it. But my point is, like, there's not a lot of backstory. There's not a lot of stakes.

You don't really have to tune in. You get the clip on social media. feel like you consumed it and you can just kind of like consume it that way like I have not watched a single second of it live but I've seen all the big highlights and knockouts from the actually I went back and watched that like fight of the year contender from last week but that was the only time I interacted with the actual broadcast version of it otherwise you can consume it fully on social media they produce this thing it spreads everywhere and then in two weeks you're going to see half those fighters on a card somewhere because that's what the the prelims have

become is like an extension of Dana White's contender series It's a perfect 2025 and beyond product. Well, even watching it live, it's pretty quick pace. Like, you're getting five or six fights in in, like, 90 minutes to two hours. Like, it doesn't take up a ton of your time. It also is nice for fans. Like, it's midweek. It happens on Tuesday evening.

And to your point about, like, how many knockouts and how many finishes there were, I don't know if it's because of the matchmaking. Like, they're kind of given some of these guys squash matches to sort of put on a highlight reel and get signed, or if it's because you say no stakes. Like, the UFC contract is the stake. and it's your moment to put on a moment. I don't know if it's because of the matchmaking or if it's because these guys know

that they have to put on a performance or they won't get signed, because it feels like it's a yearly tradition of the first week is kind of shitty and it goes to a lot of decisions. And then the next, the following weeks, there's so many finishes, but either way, people love to consume it.

PT talked about how it could hurt the regional promotions, and I agree. I talked about how it's kind of the last thing left that they can sell off. I actually messed up. There is still the ultimate fighter, which he was not asked about. But the truth is,

nothing killed the ultimate fighter quicker than contender series, and for good reason. It became obsolete once the contender series, I've long said, I think the contender series is a brilliant thing. It's one of the best, the contender series in Apex,

peanut butter and jelly. They were two of the most brilliant things that the UFC came up with over the past eight or so years. Apex was built, and Dana said yesterday that they're very close to finishing their renovations, which I'm curious to see how it looks different, what it's all about.

Apex was perfect for Contender Series. Contender Series perfect for Apex. You don't need the Ultimate Fighter. You really don't. And it feels like they even pushed the Contender Series guys more than the tough alum once they get to the, you know, once they get to the big show, so to speak. And so I don't know if they're just, look, Contender Series, great, it's going to Paramount. That makes all the sense of the world. Do they just throw, you know, tough on there?

Because for some reason, Dana White just doesn't want to let it die, I guess. I thought it was going to die in the ESPN era. You'll recall the first like two, three years of the ESPN era, tough didn't exist. It was pretty much dead. And then all of a sudden, it just reemerged. I don't think that there is any value in it whatsoever. Maybe overseas, by the way. You want to do it in China?

It makes sense. You want to do it in South America? makes sense. But here in America would chill and no, I don't I don't see it. You're doing a bedside vigil

for the ultimate fighter for the last decade, you know? And I'd be curious to see how many contracts have come out of those seasons because usually I can remember I was watching it

when there's a couple of hours like Patty McCurry was in it recently on Ranchaban and I was kind of looking into how many of these lads are getting signed and usually it's just

the winners and maybe a couple of other guys. They used to be the ultimate fight night where everybody would get a go and you had a good chance of putting yourself in the mix if you got a good result there.

It's just, it's dwarfed in comparison to the opportunity that's presented by Contender Series in 2025. Maybe the route, you remember John Jones and Nate Diaz were on that show in Russia?

Well, I think it was in Thailand, but it was Russian TV, right? Oh my doubt. Yeah, something like that. They're just getting fights in the kitchen the whole time. It's just like fucking, everyone was battering each other

in different destinations around a house. I would just love to know how much they pay John Jones and Nate Diaz to appear. You know what I mean? A lot of them. Like, those dudes aren't going to Thailand. You're going to go into his kitchen. You're going to get in a fight, mate. You're going to get one of these lads. You won't know what he's saying.

He's just going to fucking attack you. So how much money do you want for that? I'd imagine a lot more. Oh my gosh. I can't imagine. Actually, I think that all transpired at the same time that John was like, yeah, I'm in. Nah, I'm not in. And I think it was like.

He was living his best life. Yeah. Don't you know this? Yeah, that's what it was. I'm out here in Thailand, living my best life. I saw him on the scooter. He was him, like, grappling in the pool with, like, random Russian dudes. By the way, it seemed like he actually was living his best life.

But that was the one where he was on the, he was on the, like, the, the moped. And he's like, you guys are talking about. He did, like, the Elon Musk, like, run off the diving board. Yes, yes. He should have a yearly trip there, man. He looked, he did. You know, he looked very happy. I know he looked healthy.

You know, I do wonder if he's not on that show and he's not getting paid to live in Thailand and probably film like an hour a day does he take the Tom fight because it did seem he got back life kind of hit him and he's like you know what maybe I should have taken that 30 million to fight Tom Aspen

wasn't 30 million I can't imagine now I can't imagine they came with a 30 million for the kitchen scrap you know what do you mean in Thailand reality shot

what did you just say 30 million for the kitchen scrap Has PT ever sounded more Irish than he did 20 seconds ago what was that you sounded like Brian Peters by the way 30 million for the kitchen

What was that how you usually sound? Do you have a fake accent on this show? Who was that guy? I don't even know what I said. I have no idea what you said, how you said it, who that guy was. What is that? Was that Gaelic? Oh, that was great.

I'm going to go back and watch you. I don't know what the fuck I said. Sometimes when I have him count the five, he does it in Gailin if it throws me all. How do you say? 30 million for the kitchen scrap. That's not what I said. That's exactly what you said. By the way, 30 million Thai bot is about a million U.S., so maybe they offered

Oh, wait, is that what you said? You just said, you just said, there. I have to, you know what I mean. Is that how you speak to your parents and stuff? When we're talking about 30 million. No, just like that accent, whatever that was. I don't know what the fuck. I just said some words.

It was just the wrong way, I think. I don't know. It was so, it was so authentic. Beautiful. It was authentically Irish. I'm actually American. I work on this. This is all, you sound exactly like Katie Taylor's manager, Brian Peters, who sometimes

I'm like, what, come again? I didn't quite catch that. He's the first time. What a compliment. Thank you. No, he's a legend. He's an absolute legend. So there you have it.

Contender series coming to Paramount in 2026. Dana was also asked about whether or not he is starting to look at the first Paramount card. You know, everyone's focused on this White House card. What about how they're going to come out of the gates? I think they're going to come out of the gates in a very big. way. Now the question is, is the first show on Paramount? Is it going to be historically, as you guys may recall, it's like they'll usually take a couple of weeks off, Christmas time, and then

New Year's time, and then they'll come back with a fight night, you know, like a Calvin Cater fight night, usually it always feels like, and then they'll come with a pay-per-view. Do they come out of the gates right away 2026 with a PLE with a numbered event because they want everyone to sign up, they want to come out, you know, making some big splash, or do they come out, you know, with the same type of format that they've had before? I think they'll be back in California, and I think it's going to be Ilya, honestly. The question is, because February, they're going to Sydney, or they're going to somewhere in Australia, and I don't think they're going to keep him to March. I think that would be a little bit crazy. So, to me, the best way to kick

this off is Ilya versus Patty. That's the, uh, that's the one that makes the most sense in the world. We have time to figure that all out. It's in about three months from now, but we've been talking about exactly one month from now and the seven-day stretch that is one of the most important in welterweight history because you've got a massive welterweight title fight

at the top of the MSG bill. You've got Islamachah moving up from 155 to fight for the 170-pound title against the newly crowned champion, Jack Delamadelaide. You've got a fascinating fight between Carlos Prochese, who got back on track with the spinning back elbow, going up against the former champion Leon Edwards. You've got the following week, Ian Machado Gary

against former champion Balam-Mohamed. And then on November 15th, you also have a fascinating fight that kind of came out of nowhere between Michael Morales, who's on a hot start to his UFC career against the guy that we thought was going to be fighting in a number one contender fight.

The pride of Philadelphia, you, your friend in mine, the great Sean Brady. And Sean is here to talk to us about that fight. And I can assure you and promise you that he is in fact here, had a little mishap with his phone with his technology, so the camera, I'm told, isn't working. But he is actually here. Sean, are you there? Yeah, what's up, brother?

I'm here. Thank you for having me, man. It's great to talk to you, as always. Thank you for joining us, Sean. And I appreciate you very much. And I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this. I know you talked about it on your podcast. I urge everyone to check out.

what is it the body bag show right Brady bags excuse me body bags is Joe Piper it's not just Joe my bad my bad Brady bags um and we had body bags was in the gym today helping me spar for the fight so body bags

is back okay good to know very quick turnaround um yeah yeah we had Ian on yesterday but I want to get your side of the story as well because I thought feda complete it was it made all the sense in the world you versus Ian number one contender fight you have Islam versus JDM and it's all kind of timing out how do we end up

with Sean Brady versus Mike Morales instead on the MSG card. So I didn't listen to what Ian. What's Ian's story? Give me the quick rundown, if you can, of what he said happened between me and him. Ian said that he was asked to fight you, that he was down. He said that he wanted it to be a number one contender fight. That was the only ask. That, if my memory serves me correct, and guys check me if I'm saying anything wrong back

there if he said that like that kind of was hanging in the air like he didn't get a response he was thinking maybe you guys would headline Vancouver maybe you would headline one of these events happening in the next month or so and then all of a sudden he saw it was RDR versus Anthony Hernandez I guess not and then all of a sudden he said he got belal and he said you know what that's the former champion I'll take it it's it's the fight that I wanted because he was the last guy to hold the belt and he wasn't quite sure. sure why they moved on other than it seemed like they weren't willing to guarantee that this would be you versus him would be for the number one contender spot i mean that all like to ean's

credit that all sounds pretty pretty accurate but the only thing that's kind of not accurate is as far as i know and you you guys talked about it yesterday in your show the ufc isn't guaranteeing they're not saying any fight is a number one contender fight anymore like that's not it's not a thing that they're doing. Like, supposedly me and Leon were a number one contender fight back when we fought. I talked to Hunter Campbell personally, and he told me, like, not publicly, he was like, you and Ian are going to be a number one contender. So, no, like, I don't think they're publicly saying anything because they want to see how these fights all shake out, you know what I'm saying? They're not going to say one guy's the number one contender if he wins, and he has, like, a lackluster performance.

So, yeah, I don't think Blal and Ian are a number one contender. I don't think me and Michael are a number one contender. I don't think Pottes and Leon are either. I just think it's whoever performs the best, and then whoever's going to be available when they need you, I think that's going to be, I think that's going to be how it goes. And that kind of brings me all back to where how I got with Michael Morales because, yeah, like, so since, since Leon, they were, I've only been offered two fights. besides Morales. It was Ian in Chicago. I said yes. And then it was Ian for

this weekend in Vancouver and I said yes. And yeah, that was kind of like the plan and then eventually like we didn't really hear anything. So Hunter Campbell called me personally and he was the one who offered me Morales

and he kind of just like gave me the whole landscape and he kind of said he was going a different way with Ian and yeah, it's kind of how we ended up where we were ending up. They pretty much told me Morales was the only guy available if I wanted to fight this year. So, yeah, I'm going to fight. And that's kind of how we are where we're at. Like, Ian would have been the fight I would have won it just because we were going back and forth. But in my mind, at the end of the day, Morales is 18 and 0. I might as well get,

I'm going to have to fight him eventually. I'm going to have to fight all these guys eventually. So I'll get him out of the way now. And then I'll go from there. And that's kind of been my mindset like i want to fight two more times this year after i fought leon so i definitely wasn't sitting around and waiting until next year to fight for what uh a different matchup all these guys are great ian's great ball's great jack's great marales is great all these guys is great fighters in their own different way and if i'm as good as i say i am i should be able to beat all these guys so why not take out morales right now and then deal with somebody else after that yin said that you know he was down to fight you, but he wanted that guarantee. And it seemed like if he couldn't get that guarantee,

you know, he was, he was inclined to take this ball fight. Just curious, you said you were down to fight. Ian, you said you agreed to it in Chicago, Vancouver. Did you ask for any sort of guarantee or did you just say yes, let me know? No, no. If I beat Leon Edwards the way, I beat him in his backyard and I don't get a title shot, nothing's guaranteed. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not, and I'm not living in a world now where like a lot of people are like, oh, like, why are you fighting and not take waiting for the bell like i don't get paid or i don't get the status i'm trying to get to by waiting around and not fighting you know what i'm saying like fighting is going to solve everything in this i keep winning fights i'm going to become undeniable and eventually

they're going to have to give me the title shot and um i'm just not i feel like guys are getting so like even oosman saying he's waiting for a title shot like i'm not waiting for anything nothing nothing has ever gone good for anybody in the ufc who's kind of just sat around and wait it. So yeah, I'm not doing that. I got the chance to fight an hour and 15 minutes away from my house. I don't have to take a flight anywhere. It's at MSG. It's amazing. It's an amazing opportunity and I'm going to go out there and do what I do. Fighters fight and I'm going to go fight in a month from now. So you're saying all the right things in my opinion, but I'm just curious, are you or were you disappointed when it didn't quite work out the way you thought

it was going to work out post-Leon fight? Yeah, yeah, no. And that's kind of, um, my career's kind of going that way, you know, like, it's, uh, some things are supposed to happen the way I think they're going on it and then they don't happen. Like, if I go back and, um, I look at my career, like I thought I was 100% like fighting Bala, I was going to beat Balaal and then I was going to become a champion after that. Turns out I wasn't ready in that moment. So everything that's kind of happened in my career has gotten me to where I'm at right now. And I just have another opportunity to go out there and shock the world and show everything. And show everything. everybody that I'm the best world to rate in the world and that's what I'm going to do but yes of course

like I want to fight Ian and I want to fight all these other guys and like I even said that to Hunter I was like talking about the rankings and he said he was like the rankings really don't matter he was like he was like they like at the end of the day the UFC is going to put whoever they want in there for the belt so I'm not really too concerned with the rankings I just beat the number one guy. So I go out here, I beat another, I beat an 18-0 kid, young, hungry, up-and-comer, and then, like I said, undeniable is the word in my mind, and I'll become undeniable after that. Because these three fights, and then four, of course, if you consider the title fight a part of this tournament, which it technically is, I'm viewing it as an eight-man tournament,

because they're all happening within seven days of each other, do you agree with the sentiment that I talked about at the beginning of the show, which is I don't think a win is enough. And that sucks because I know how hard it is to get a win in the UFC against top-tier talent. I think it's going to be coming down to who wins most spectacularly, a finish, a knockout, a submission, something spectacular, something definitive.

I don't think a win is just enough. A decision win gets you to where you want to be. Do you agree with that? Yeah, 100%. I think that's the kind of, I think that's the case right now with middleweight as well. like you have Brendan Allen and RDR this weekend one of those guys could RDR could definitely get a title shot if he has an amazing performance but if he

kind of has a lackluster one he won't get it and then you have um em of all like you have like the kind of the same situation at 185 you do at 70 so yeah I don't think Leon's getting the title shot if he beats protest um I don't think ball is getting a title shot if he beats Ian so like I do but I think like me and morale is obviously both of us are young up-and-comers same thing i think i think if he beats the wall depending on how he does it like he could get the title shot so yeah it's really going to be who does it the best in the best way and then who's not injured who's ready like when's whoever wins out of it like there's just so many things like who's going to win how to jack

and islam like there's just there's so many um there's so many question marks and then you got usman out there saying he's getting the next title shot so yeah it's uh it's a it's a crazy, crazy time in the division, but I'm just happy that fights are finally getting booked and there's just going to be some movement because for a while there, like, it just, right after my fight, I went to Canada, I watched the title fight. I thought, like, all right, like, this is going to be, like, I'm going to be fighting soon and then just nothing. So I'm just happy that I have a fight booked and that we can get the show on the road.

The odd man out, the forgotten man, of course, is shove cut. Do you think there's any chance that he kind of just waltzes back in there? Upon returning? No, no. There's absolutely no way. He's been out for too long. And that's a fight I was asking. I asked for that fight here at MSG,

and I was just told that he wasn't going to be ready yet. And then I think he came out recently and said January or February is when he was returning. So maybe they do him in Camaro or something like that. But yeah, there's going to be too much happening in the next two months that he's just going to walk out from his injury and get a title shot. I just can't see it happening. I like that idea, him versus Kamaro, whenever he returns. You see that? The U.S. you should hire me?

I like that. Yeah, honestly, I wasn't thinking of that, but it actually makes a lot of sense. Work his way back in there. It's been too long. Exactly. Perhaps a tough question, I recognize. Who do you think the UFC wants to emerge from this pack? Probably protest.

You think so? I know there, I think protest, like, he has a very fan-friendly, style the spinning elbows the moitai the smoking the cigarettes you know what i'm saying so like and i can and i'm a realist and i can sit back and say like yeah like they'd rather him than um it's because at the end of the day it's becoming the entertainment business right and um it's not who's the best fighter who can dominate and we've seen this like even with like takedowns like you can't just take people down anymore uh you have to be doing damage and doing all these different things you're also getting stood up so it's just becoming more of a an entertainment business and

I'm sure they would like for him to come out on top of all this. But I think Leon's going to, I think it's a, I think it's going to be a fun stylistic fight. I'm looking forward to watching it. And I'm kind of favoring Leon in that fight. So Leon could have come to, I don't think Leon's going to go 0 for three. He's a great fighter. I can't see him losing three in a row. So I think he's going to play spoiler to that fight.

Wow. By the way, the complete opposite take of Ian. Ian was definitive in his stance that Leon is shot and that he's about to get smoke, like smoked, he said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I know that I think they had like some kind of beef or something like that. So, but yeah, no, I don't think, I don't think Leon is,

I don't think that's what happened. I don't think Leon's that kind of guy. I think he's going to let himself go only three. How do you think they feel about Michael Morales? I'm sure they feel good about him. He's young, he's 18 and 0. he's got a whole country of Ecuador behind him so I'm sure that's a good market like they would like to tap into but um you know like we know how it goes like there's all these guys who are young up-and-comers and then they fight somebody and they take their first loss and nothing bad like not saying it's a bad thing but same thing with me I was five and no and then um I the one fight like I was like I'm going to go in here and I'm going to smoke the law and that was the fight I lost you know so uh Yeah, like the universe has a way of setting everything right.

And, yeah, I'm sure that they, I'm sure they want him to do good, but unfortunately for them and him, he's got to fight me. He's looked very good. I'm just wondering from your perspective, you've obviously watched him. I'm sure you've kept your eye on him. Perhaps you didn't think he'd be on the radar this soon, but the Gilbert Burns win from back in May, the Magny win, Jake Matthews, Griffin, etc. What do you make of him?

What do you see when you see him fight? What do you think of his fighting style? Big, strong, athletic. I don't think he's been tested the way he should have been yet. But I thought Gilbert was going to, in that only round that we've seen, we've seen a lot of good things from Gilbert. I think Gilbert, if he could have kept doing what he was doing, and obviously he got caught, I think Gilbert could have gave him a run for his money.

But, yeah, I mean, he looked great. undefeated. I think he's 5-0 or 6-0 in the UFC, one on the Contender Series, and he's got a lot of finishes. So, yeah, he's definitely a hard puzzle to solve. But like I said, in the beginning, he's going to be around. And we're all going to be around. So we're all going to be fighting each other. So for me, it's like, why not, why not just do it now? You know, I don't get paid to sit on the sidelines. I don't get, I don't get more, like, any more status as, can like being the number one contender by just sitting on the sidelines so yeah and uh i got a new deal out of this out of this fight oh wow yeah yeah so me and like me and hunter had a great

conversation i got a new deal and yeah so it's all positives for me um i get the fight i get to fight i get to i get to i got an opponent that's making me train harder than i've ever trained it's only a three-round fight so I don't have to do the extra rounds that I've been getting ready for for the five-round fight so there's less wear and tear so yeah it's exciting I'm very I'm very happy

and would I like to fight Bilal why I want to fight Bilal so bad I want to get that one back do I want to fight Ian yes do I want to fight Camaro yes but this is what was presented to me and I've said yes the three fights this year and this is the one that well four fights this year

this is the one that I'm going to get. Respect. You just said that you think Leon actually beats Carlos. I wanted to ask you about the other fights in that stretch. I've heard you say you think JDM beats Islam. Is that accurate? And if so, why? I just, I just think that JDM has a very hard style to deal with for somebody like Islam.

And I say that being a grappler, because he'll even be a, he'll be a very tough fight for me. He hits hard on the feet. He has amazing movement. His defense is really good. his take-down defense has gotten a lot better since the Gilbert fight. He is very hard. He's easier to take down than he is to hold down. He scrambles very well in the ground.

So I just think that it's going to be a very tough fight for Islam. But Islam could, I say all that just to say, Islam could go out there and just do what he does. He looks big. He looks strong. I've seen some videos of him recently. So it's finally, and it took almost the entire year, but it's finally a good point

for the welterweights again. We got a lot of good stuff going to happen in the next five, six weeks. And what about Ian versus Bilal the following week in guitar? Who are you leaning towards? That's a good one too. I think Bilal knows how to win

and I think Bilal is planning on going out there and implementing the same game plan he probably did against Leon, maybe hit him with some Canelo hands, you know? But no, I like Belaw. And I think Bilal is a very good fighter. I think he's a very smart fighter. And as much as me and Ian have had our back and forwards,

Ian's a good fighter. And he doesn't lose. He's totally lost to Shavcott. And that was a very lackluster back and forth fight. He looked good against protest besides that last round. So, yeah, I kind of, I'm hoping Ian wins just so I could see him sooner than later. I think if he loses, then that fight won't happen as soon as I would like it to happen. But yeah, I've been offered to fight Ian two times this year.

And I've seen, like, people, he must have put out a video and people were saying, I was ducking Ian. I'm like, I've been trying to fight this dude all year long. And I'm not, and this is where me and Ian are different people. I have proof in my phone of text messages that I've been offered these fights. So, like, there's no, I have no reason to lie on my end. I would never lie and say I wasn't all for these fights. And people miscommunicate what I was saying. I've never said Ian was scared to fight me.

I'm just saying it was on his end why these fights got drug out and then eventually the UFC moved on. So I've never said once that he was scared of me. I don't think Ian's scared of anyone. So I hope Ian wins just so I could fight him sooner. But Belaw might do what Belaw does and go out there and get a win. I mean, he lost the toe-to-to-toe with Jack and didn't get dropped. So if he didn't get dropped by Jack, he's not getting dropped by Ian.

By the way, who gets the bigger pop on November 15th, the Ecuadorian, or the noted Philadelphia sports fan fighting at the Mecca, Madison Square Garden, and the greatest sports town in the world? Who gets the home? Brother, brother, we are about an hour and 15-minute drop from Philly. Philly's showing up. I've been just close to home since my C. FFC days.

So, and until they come back to Wells Fargo Center where Boots just smoked somebody else, this is the closest it's going to get. So, yeah, it's, uh, Philly's going to be in the house for sure. Well, I was happy to see Boots get the win, you know, with, with the Eagles looking so bad and, uh, obviously the Phillies getting bounced. It was nice of, of the Philadelphia sports bat. Bad Thursday night, right? Why, Phillies and Eagles?

It was a horrible Thursday. We need a boots. Yeah. Boots is making, boots is making it. He made up for everybody. He's making it look too easy. And by the way, congrats. I believe your nephew just won a big grappling tournament.

I think Naga. Yeah, a Naga. Yeah, he's killing it. How old is he? He's going to be 11. Wow. I'm telling you right now, like, his jih Tzu is going to be on a different level. This kid is, he's like, first tournament he ever did.

He took second place. Next couple ones he did, he took first, first. So, like, this past, like, two weekends ago, he got a double gold. so yeah he's uh he's a little killer so i'm super i'm super proud of him i'm how he's actually said i've asked him if he wants to fight and uh he doesn't want to fight he's i don't think he's got he hasn't got punched or he does not train in the mama yet so we'll let him keep doing jihitsu and it's cool now because there's so many avenues in jiu jitsu that you can make money and kind of make a living at and by the time he's old enough there will be even more so uh yeah

i'm super proud of him how's fatherhood it's the best i'm actually I'm watching her. She just woke up. I can hear her. I'm watching her on the, uh, the nanocam right now. So no, it's, it's great. She's, uh, eight months now. She's, um, she's super healthy. She's so fun. It's, it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. And that's like another thing, like, that just makes fighting easy is just knowing that, uh, there's so much more to life than what I'm doing with my, my, my career means a lot to me. But, um, I have way bigger things going on in my life. And, uh, fighting only makes, them easier. So I'm going to do everything I can in my power to set me, her mother, and her up for life. And that's going to make me a very dangerous man in a month from now. Well done, Sean. I'll let you get back to your daughter. Keep doing your thing, man. Looking forward to this fight very much. What a freaking fight. What a stretch for the welterweight division. You're, of course, a big part of that. So thank you, as always, for coming on. Thank you, brother. Good luck next month. What about an in-person interview

White Weeks. Oh, we're in. We thought you didn't like us. We were, you know, I didn't want to push it anymore. I'm going to be there now. I have no shoes. Wow. G.C., you hear that?

You hear that? He wants back in. We're waiting, bro. I'm going to be there in Fight Week. I think I'm coming up, I'll be up there Tuesday or Wednesday. Oh, my dear. Are we doing the bike race?

Are we doing that? No. Wow. He'll take fights against killers like Michael Morales, but won't get on the bike against me, man. That's something. That's something. wait. I'll be cut. I'll help you cut weight. I will come in the studio and I'll do an in-person

interview if we can make it happen. Deal. That would be great. That would be amazing. Thank you. All right. Good to talk to you, Sean. Thank you soon. Thank you so much. There he is. The great Sean Brady. What do you think? You think he wants back in? Nah. He's scared, bro. He's scared. By the way, if he's cutting weight, going on the bike for a minute would help the weight cut, no? We'll add something to the contract. We both have to be in sauna suits. Oh. Do you have to have? one of those? I actually do, yeah. They're actually fun. Yeah, you sweat a lot. You take it off and it's like, I love that feeling. It feels great when you take it off. Yeah. All right, well,

something to look forward to. That fight, by the way, that card is exactly a month away, a month from today. And it's unbelievable. It's an unbelievable card. As I said yesterday, the main card at MSG and even some of those prelim fights as well, really, really, really good stuff. All right, speaking of good stuff, there's a new documentary out right now on Amazon Prime. It features some familiar faces, some familiar names, the likes of Daniel Cormier, the likes of John Sina. It's a very, very heartwarming and motivational and inspirational story in large part about a young man named Stephen Spice. Stephen Spice, who is the face and the voice of Stephen's wrestling journey, the YouTube channel, also the Instagram page as well. He's had

a ton of big names on his channel from the world of wrestling from the world of combat sports he is the star of this documentary called Supercar Saints and like I said he's got a phenomenal story and he's kind enough to join us

on this Wednesday afternoon Steven are you there what's up bud how are you it's nice to meet you it's really great to have you on here congratulations on all the great things happening in your life

congratulations on the movie have you seen the movie Yes, I have actually And it was Very, very good I think the final product was a lot better than I expected it would be And I actually loved it

Like a lot I love that I love that it exceeded your expectations For those that are unfamiliar With the movie and your story Do you mind sharing it with us? Well, my story began in 2017, I think

And I was five years old and I had this pain in my shoulder and we didn't know what was causing you and it was forcing me to wake up out of sleep scratching my shoulder saying, oh, it hurts, it hurts. And my mom took me to 15 doctors and they all said she was crazy.

And then we went to sick kids' hospital and they said, well, there's nothing wrong with their shoulder. And my mom's like, oh God, here we go again. And like, it's his brain actually. And she's like, what do you mean his brain? He has QR-a-mo for me. and it's pushing his brain into a spine. They said I'm the one in a million child because by the time they found it,

I should have been dead, had a massive stroke, or had a, or had a, or been paralyzed from the neck down. Wow. Yeah. And then since then I've had throat reconstruction surgery, nose reconstruction surgery, a couple dental surgeries, two brain surgeries, and a few other vitus surgeries. And how are you doing now?

I'm doing great, considering I've been this amazing, this amazing project on Prime. And yes, I do fight some pain a lot every day. But I always look at the other side of things. And that's what I always come up to. Yes, I do have pain, but look what's got me. I've met Daniel Cormier. I've met my dream meet of all time, John Cesar. And I'm on this podcast with you.

So I'd say, yes, I have pain, but I say I'm doing pretty good. Yeah. I mean, what a great picture that is. By the way, how old are you? I'm 14 right now. 14. You're so well-spoken. You're so mature.

It's really impressive. And, of course, I know you've been through so much. And so what is Supercar Saints, this documentary that's available out right now on Amazon Prime? What's that all about? It's basically about it was about cars in the Toronto car industry. But when I got into it, it's about more so about how people could change and how life's not all about money and money can't buy happiness.

Like swash and pro, I'm not going to spoil it, but it's all about them changing and how they change their ways and they think that money's everything until the end of the movie. Yeah, and you're great in it, as is D.C., John Jones, excuse me, not John Jones, John Sina, who is not a fan of Daniel Cormey. I see behind you all your wrestling figurines.

I like figurines, too. I don't know if you saw my little studio here. Do you see all the stuff I have here? I've got to... I actually wanted to tell you something. Please. If I was ever in your studio, you might want to leash me

because I would go crazy with all those figures, that hornswaggle. Yeah, I observe. I observe that horsewinkle. I see the tali in the background. Yeah. I see all the, I see the Romanades plushy. I'm observing. Yeah, man, you got a good eye. You see them all. I love this one from my friend Matt Cardona, the Dusty Roads, old school. Oh, my dusty roads. Look at that, Cody's dad. Tell me about yours. How many do you have back there? Because I see a lot of great ones. Yeah, that's just a little bit. I have actually like 100 Cinas. I have. a lot of Roman reigns and these are just like stuff I display

I have prime bottles back there I actually have someone that I actually just before this interview I was watching the whole interview that you did with him Darby Allen up there Oh yeah the man Yeah it's somewhere up there

He's the casket figure He comes with like a body bag and stuff Oh wow And yeah I actually saw him Pour the water on his head Yes He's such a character And I actually met him

When he came to a forbidden door he gave me his chain the metal chain that he wore every single match and he's such a character that guy is awesome and yeah

but I have a lot of figures like a lot of figures it's not even funny I have some really rare ones like I have a macho man figure that's like the slim gym one wow it's like really rare

and I actually have a lot of the one of the Dusty Road stuff you saw like you showed me I have, like, I have a Cody Rhodes one of those. I can't remember what they're exactly called, but like all rubber and stuff. But, yeah. I love it. I love the toys.

I love your fandom. And I love the fact that there are some people who are just, I'm a WWE guy, and I'm an AEW guy. And you just seem to be a wrestling fan. You seem to love it all. Yes, I love everything. As a matter of fact, I legit have a WrestleMania monopoly right in front of. me and um so that would go to where i love all my wrestling all together um what's your favorite thing in wrestling right now like what's your favorite storyline your favorite person what's the

thing that's captivating your imagination you know what i think it has to be jonathan's final run he's like very entertaining in my opinion just the whole thing where he turned heel for a little bit and then co-year-roads changed him and then it's it's like so interesting and now that he's fighting everybody has a face my dad's like oh he's not turning face again he's retiring at the heel it's over and I'm like John Cena's gonna retire as a heel

yeah okay no chance and so I think it's very entertaining and I love having nights where he's wrestling on paper view and stuff like I take time and I watch it with the family and then we have this whole like bet stuff where we go oh I think

John's he's gonna win oh I think AJ South is gonna win and we say, oh, who is the winner of WrestleMania Night 1? Who was the winner of WrestleMania Night 2? Like that kind of stuff. Okay, so the big question is, who will be John Cena's final opponent? Who would you vote for? Because no one knows, right?

We know what's happening in December, Saturday night's main event, but we don't know who the final guy will be. See, no one's believed me, but I've been calling this since, like, way, like, said, like, I don't even know. It was like a couple months ago I called this. Um, I think it's going to be an edge. I knew you were going to say that. I knew you were going to, as a Toronto guy, I knew that you were going to say that.

But if you look at it, if you look at John Cena did the spirit just like Edge would. Yeah. Edge, I was at all out and Edge did the five knuckle chuckle. He did the attitude adjustment. I'm like, yeah, that's over. He's, he's going to. He's going. Because if you think about it, John Cena and Edge is like peak of fuse.

It's like the feud of all feuds. they feuded for like they was like one of the greatest feuds i've ever seen and yes i know i was like before my time but i i do research you're not the only one that was research no i know you have to appreciate the history and i agree with you by the way that would be the uh the best guy possible he's kind of run through them all and so for him obviously he's at a w now but there's some sort of talk of maybe him coming over so that would be incredible tell me about stephen's wrestling journey what is what is the youtube channel about what are you doing all over there and why should people subscribe?

Um, well, this is subscribed because I see this beautiful face every day. Just like, you know? And then, um, but they should subscribe because it's, I started from like the bottom in 2020. And I started it because I couldn't do nothing. I, because of my brain condition, I, in COVID, then the COVID-19 predict to pandemic, I couldn't do my most favorite thing of doing. I used to go outside every single day from like 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. I get the PMs and AMs mixed up, whatever.

But I used to go out all day, but as soon as COVID struck, the doctor said, if you get, if you get sick, we don't know what could be the side effects. So I'm like, I need to do something. I started interviewing me now. It's become my passion. I've interviewed the likes of Edge. I've interviewed the likes of Darby Allen and Sting.

And I personally think they're really good interviews. I get told a lot that I interview only a way a kid can because I not only ask questions about wrestling itself I'm like this is one question that I'll go oh no no this is the best question in my entire interview

it's like so hard you need to prepare yourself I build it all the way up and then I ask them what's your favorite color so I like the way I do it I like my interviews and they're really fun to do and since 2020, since I started from the bottom, it's become my dream. That's it.

I have two dreams, and that is one of them. I want to become a journalist. Okay. Well, I was just about to ask you that. What is your dream? So you want to be a wrestling journalist? Is that the dream? Actually, I would like to be like Chris Van Belit, and I would love to be all-around

journalist. And I would love to be as like, I would love my journalist to be my manager of, but as a side job. Another passion of mine is acting. Love acting. But, yeah, journalism is probably my most, like, I want to be a journalist. I love it. I love it. I want it to be a journalist as well. And guess what? I became one. You got such a big platform. Why not you? Why not you? You could do it as well. And by the way, you're well on your way. I wasn't doing anything remotely close to what you were doing at your age. And you started four years ago, which is incredible. So you are truly an inspiration.

I love the fact that you got to hang out with D.C. DC is one of my closest friends, and we used to do a show together as well, and he's one of the nicest human beings that I've ever met. I saw him bring you, you know, to his gym, you got to meet the team, you got to meet his son. I never even got that invitation. I've never had the pleasure of hanging with D.C. in Gilroy over there at the wrestling academy. So I'm lucky, excuse me, you're lucky, and I'm envious of you. I'm a little jealous that you got to do that. I'm not trying to rub it in.

No, rub it in. Wow. Wow. But DC was amazing. And may I say now they're on the topic of DC, my dad has always thought that if he didn't get poked in the eye, he would have won that fight. Wow. Okay. Your dad knows the stuff.

He knows balls, they say. Yeah. Yeah. Respect to your dad as well. see i'm i'm like the wwea a guy he's like all ufc he loves ufc he was so jealous about dc that i legit told him um i have a friend when i was with dc i called my dad and like i have a friend that wants to had to you and he's like oh my god there's no way and he freaked out i love it that's amazing uh the the documentary is amazing it's called supercar saints uh it's in consideration

for Best Documentary, the Academy Awards, which is an incredible honor in its own right. How about that? You and John Cena just chilling like buddies. Why should people watch it? Why should they go on Amazon Prime after our show later today and learn more about your story?

Well, I'm going to say it again because it's beautiful faces of course. But the real, all seriousness, I have to say it's all in all a great movie. Yes, I'm not in it the full way. But there's great characters along the way that shows a real moment of changing and how someone so dushy and so, like, very bad person can go into someone that's, like, a really good person. And it's a very heartwarming story.

And I've had people come up to me that I've watched a movie and said your movie was amazing. And it was very heartwarming. And everybody that's come up to me that's watched I've only had like a handful of people that haven't cried during their movie. movie and if you don't want to cry still watch it because it's good my kids loved it as well so it's for everyone and by the way for those wondering you're not the douchey guy you're you're you're talking about someone else in the movie okay just for the record just for the record you're talking about i'm the person you want to love you want to you want to love this face you want to love me yeah well uh congratulations on the film it's great i love that it's getting um it's getting

love and respect as well and recognition. Congrats on everything that you've done so far, and I can't wait to continue to follow your journey and see you become the most prominent journalist in the world, in the wrestling world, in the combat world, in whatever world you want to cover in the next few years, because you're well on your way, my friend. I wish you nothing but the best. Thank you. And can I ask you a question, even though it's not my podcast?

No, no, go ahead. What advice you have for me to go up and do things? that you're doing right now. Well, first off, props to you for even asking a question because a lot of people don't do that. And I'm so amazed and blown away by your maturity and your poised. So well done.

My advice to you is, look, when I started, I didn't know a single person in this world, in the world of combat sports, in the world of wrestling, in the world of boxing, in the world of MMA, et cetera. But I really, really wanted it. And so I would write to people, I would write to them on MySpace.

You probably have never heard or seen MySpace. it was Facebook before Facebook, and I would send like 30 messages a day. And if I got back one reply, I was over the moon, because then that one reply led to another reply and another reply in one interview led to two interviews and three interviews. And I started to meet people and build my catalog of people that I know, my Rolodex, as they say, which is basically all the numbers in my phone. And I just wouldn't say, I wouldn't take no for an answer. I wouldn't give up. And so every day I was consistent. I was professional. I was hardworking. I was grateful. I was thankful for people's time. And I just didn't stop believing. And I still feel, by the way,

I'm 43. I'm a little bit older than you. I still feel like I haven't made it. I still have that same mentality. I still feel like I need to work hard and be grateful and reach out to people and hustle and all that stuff. And so if you have that in you and you have way more of that in you than I do, I know this just from talking to you for 15 minutes and watching you. You have all of those qualities and then some. Keep doing your thing. Keep working hard. Keep dreaming as big as possible. You are going to make a big. I have no doubt about it. You only get one shot at all of this, right? We only get one shot on this earth. So you might as well shoot for the moon, shoot for the stars. You're doing that. You inspire me. I want to be like you. And so I would just say keep doing exactly what you're doing.

You're going to get to exactly where you want to be. And can I say just two more things? I know. I know I've take your time. No problem, no problem. But I have to say, number one, you want to slide me a few numbers for my interviews, you know, you know, getting my connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shoot your shot. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I have to share a few models for you. Number one, don't give up. Yeah. That's for everybody. Just don't give up. Number two, be yourself because no one else can be you. If you're not yourself, the world's missing something. you're giving me this incredible advice. I need to start listening to you.

I don't believe you're 14, man. I believe you're, I'm 43. You're probably 55 with this wisdom and knowledge. You're an unbelievable kid. You really are, and you're doing everything right. And I hope that you have only good days, that the health hurdles that you've had to overcome are going to be behind you and that you can just focus on your dream, focus on being a kid.

And I have no doubt that in 20 or so years I'll be able to say to people, I knew this guy when he was just 14. He was on my show. Now he's the biggest journalist in the world. I can't wait to tell people that. So well done, Stephen. All the best, too, and I urge everyone to check out the doc, Supercar Saints, and your YouTube channel, your Instagram, and just look up Steven Spice. You'll be inspired.

Well done. Great to meet you. Great to meet you, too. You're making me blush. Thank you. Thank you, Stephen. All the best. Great to meet you.

There he is. Stephen Spice. What a kid. Amazing. I feel inspired. just talking to him. And I'm pretty sure that he's a 45-year-old and a 14-year-old's body. So, so mature, so wise. Beautiful stuff. Check out the documentary, Supercar Saints. Check out his YouTube channel. And thank you to James Hergot, the director of the film, for setting

that up. I appreciate him very much. Let me take this off here. Let me get a little drinky drink. Tasty. I feel bad that we have three in studio guests. It is a little toasty in here. I don't know if you guys want to tell the staff that it is toasty. I don't have my headphones on yep. So yes, in

consideration of how they're feeling, I do think, even I'm doing. Do you want to dump some water on top of you? Yeah, that would be good. Hey guys, Danny Garcia is back this Saturday, 37 years old, former WBA, WBC, and Ring World Champion, unified world champion as well.

He's held belts in the light welterweight and welterweight division. He is a legend of the game. He came back in 2022 after a two-year layoff, then again in 24. And he's headlining Barclay Center for the 10th and final time this Saturday.

And it could very well be his very last fight. Let's talk to the Pride of Philadelphia Danny Swift Garcia, who is here to join us on this Wednesday afternoon. Hello, Danny. How are you, my man? Great to meet you. Great to meet you. Thank you for coming in. Please have a seat.

So here we go. The final dance, the last dance at the Barclay Center. Well, this is a nice place, man. Thanks for having me. Oh, yeah. You like it? Yeah, I like it a lot. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. I like all the memorabilia stuff. Yes. Cool, for sure. I do like the combat. We've got some boxing stuff here, MMA, pro wrestling, bare knuckle, all that crazy stuff. How are you? I feel great.

I feel great. Ready to go. Barclay Center 10 times. This is my 10 fight at the Barclay Center, October 18th. This Saturday, it's going to be another legendary night. It's my farewell fight to Brooklyn. Maybe, maybe my farewell fight to boxing. Okay, so that's interesting.

It's your last fight. You're saying it's your last fight in Brooklyn, but you're kind of stopping short at saying it's your last fight, period. Yeah, I say it's the 85% chance. It could be my last fight. When do you decide if it's going to be or not going to be? After the fight. Okay.

How I feel. Do you want it to be your last fight? 85%. Yeah. Okay, what's the 15%? Just because I'm a fighter. Yeah. Just because I'm a fighter.

I know. sometimes you might just go in there look good I'm gonna do it again yeah but and then it's the 85% is like you said I've been at this level for 13 years I've been fighting at the Barclays sentence 2012

championship fights every year every year and you know I have three beautiful children now so I feel like I want to transition to be a father I want to be there for my kids I don't want to miss them grow up and I think that's the most important thing for me right now and this fight is under your

promotional banner, right? Yes, sir. Swift promotions, which is a big deal. Is this something that you always wanted to transition to? Yes, sir. This was the plan. For sure. So I said, look, if I'm going to do it again, I'm going to do it under my own banner. I'm going to do it under my own promotion at the Barclay Center. And one day, it just started from one phone calls to another, and we're here. Wow. With the whole thing together. So when you say, if I wanted to do it again, because in 2020, you kind of paused on your career, right? Did you officially retire? Well, at 2020, that's after I fought two times in 2020. And then that's when I went through, like, mental health.

I went through mental health after that. Like, before the Spence fight, I was going through a lot of mental health. So after that fight, I didn't know if I was ever going to come back to boxing, just because, I don't know, just like my mind wasn't there. Just anxiety, depression, those type of things. Then one day, I remember I was in L.A. and I was with my friend. And I told my friend, I said, look, I used to dream about, you know, fighting on this stage. I used to dream about making a lot of money.

I used to dream about being a champion. And now that I'm here, I don't want to do it no more. So it kind of dawned on me that day. And then I just, that day I just made a phone call. And I said I wanted to fight. And Alhameh made it happen against Benavitas at the Barclay Center. And then I was feeling good. I won that fight at 154.

I was feeling great. And then, you know, I sat down for like 28 months. You know, just the politics of boxing, try to come back, win a middleweight title against Laura, fell short. And then I said, look, if I'm going to do this again, I'm going to do it under my own promotion. And that's why that's really the motivation. I'll never forget that post-fight interview with Jim Gray at the Barclays after you beat Benavitas, because that's when you talked about the mental health struggles. And it resonated with me.

I've talked about it as well on my show. I'm very interested in the topic because it hits near and dear to my heart. talked about talking to a therapist and struggling myself, and for you to be that open and vulnerable in that moment in a fight after you won, I think helped a lot of people and you, you know, you connected with a lot of people in that moment. Do you regret doing that? Is there any part of you? Because you were very vulnerable and I think you didn't want to really go in and he was asking you more questions as a good journalist would do. Right. No, I didn't regret it. He asked me why I didn't fight in two years. And I basically told him, look, I just wasn't feeling

good. I wasn't feeling mentally or mentally or physically good. And then just one thing led to another. And then next you know, I'm crying on TV. It's like one of my most memorable moments on TV. It's like me crying. It's crazy. Are you okay with that? Are you comfortable with that? Yeah, I was cool. I mean, it's... I feel like that's part of your legacy now. Yeah, at first I thought it was going to make like a meme out of it or something like a Michael Jordan meme. you know he's crying but no it touched many people it touched many people like celebrities family members friends other fighters I'm talking about people you think whenever have anxiety and depression DM me on Instagram telling me thank you like you really you

helped me is that something you dealt with your whole life yeah I think so I think so I think I just didn't know was that right I I didn't know it was anxiety and depression. Like, what did you feel? Is it like before your fights or when you were a kid? The first time when I was a kid, I had got like a boss. I was a young kid. I think I was like seven or eight years old.

I got like a ball spot in the back of my head. And I thought it was a ringworm. But I think it was alopecia, but I didn't know because I was a kid. I never went to the hospital. And that's when my father was like behind bars. So that's like life was tough for me at that point. like my dad he was behind bars um like we a house got four clothes and me and my brother didn't go to school for like two years and stuff like that so i was worried a lot as a kid i was always worried

and i didn't know and then when my father finally came back he thought i had a ringworm so he gave me like um what's that shampoo called i forgot the name of it like uh head and shoulders Yeah, yeah. If I could, and then eventually, like, I guess it went away because I was starting to be happy again. Wow. Yeah. So, fast forward, 2016, I get a ball spot again in the back of my hair. Wow.

Big, like, quarter, like that big, like 2016. So I went to a dermatologist. This time I went to a doctor, you know, life is different. I got some money. I went to a dermatologist. And the first question she asked me, she said. Are you going through stress? Did you lose your job?

And this time, I'm WBC WLWA champion of the world. I'm a two-division world champion. Life is good. You know, Alheim is taking care of me. I'm making a lot of money. And she said, yeah, you have alopecia. It comes from your body. It's going through a large amount of stress.

And it attacks your immune system. And you attack your scout, like your hair. And that's when I finally realized, like, damn, maybe I am stressing. And then 2020, I kept getting it. I got like another, 2018, I got a ball spot right here, 2019. And then 2020, that's when I was like, you know what? I got to take a break from boxing or maybe retire because it's putting, I don't know,

I can't control how I feel. And once I, once I took that break, I really learned how to, like, deal with it and just be grateful for everything. And that's why I fought Benavitas. That's why I fought Laura. And that's why I'm here today. Talking about the word grateful, when you were at your height, when you're WBC world champion are you enjoying the ride are you grateful are you are you aware of how

great life is or when you look back now do you regret not appreciating like letting the stress consume you I thought I always thought that was like a focus feeling like the anxiety and the pressure I thought I was like so locked in I thought I was focused like I'm just 100% focused but it wasn't it was like my mind just couldn't like stop thinking about certain things and it would just make me feel like that but uh Yeah, I was happy to be a champion. I was happy to be a champion. But I've been carrying a lot of pressure on me since I was a kid, you know, just trying

to get my family a better life. And I think all that pressure finally got caught up to me. Like, I finally cracked a little bit. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, just being a human being. Like, your family sometimes, when you that person in your family could change your family's life, people look at you like a superhero.

And I think that's what happened. I think I just, I finally, like, I can. cracked, I cracked, I got a little weak, you know, I got a little weak-minded. I want to say weak-minded, but. Oh, no, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, but it finally got to me. By the way, you mentioned when you were a kid, you didn't go to school for two years. Yeah. What did you do? How did you pass the time? Man, how old are you at this point? I was in second grade. So I feel second and third grade. What age were you when your dad went to jail? Well, I remember I was the second grade so what's that like seven years old okay that's when you went yeah yeah if i'm not

mistaken i might get the age yeah but i think i was like from seven from like seven to nine or seven to ten around okay for two years yeah yeah um but yeah so what i used to do was it's crazy it's funny you asked me that question i used to just like just stay home because my house of foreclose when when he's supposed to be in there so i just stay home like the ladies from like dhs will come knocking on the door looking for me and my brother and we just my dad used to always tell me no who I don't care if it's the president of the United States and he's knocking on the door do not answer that door wow wow that's how I was raised so I just never answered the door but then when my my dad finally came home I went to truancy court I was in the system for like three or four

they monitored me for like three or four years but that's when I started boxing I started going to school my dad got a job so I was I was I was was back on track but I was in the truancy system for like what's that truancy truancy is like when you miss a lot of school I mean we miss a lot of um when you miss a lot of days of school okay um it's called like a truancy court okay they could take you away from your family and put you in a way like in a uh like a kid's jail or really yeah yeah and they did that to you well I went to court yeah they told me to kiss my mom goodbye but he was like you look like a good kid I'm gonna give you a chance no way the judge said that yeah

Wow. Where was your mom when you were, you know? My mom was young. Okay. My mom was young. So, you know, my dad's like the, what's that, like the trunk of the family. Yeah, the rock. Yeah, exactly. So everyone got kind of lost when he was gone, so everything just crumbled. Angel, he's your coach. Yeah, Angel.

Will he be there on Saturday? Yeah, yeah, he's actually out there. Okay, respect to Angel. Yeah. And how old was your brother? My brother was, he's two years older to me, so. And it was just you two? Yeah Alone in the house

Someone's knock you Are you freaking out? Eventually we We moved in with my aunt Like six months later Wow She took us in Did any of your friends

I mean you're so young at that time But did your friends from school Say like hey Like come back Or is it just kind of No not really No Survival to finish

Right That's it Did you end up going back to school? Yeah I went back to school I finished high school You graduated Yeah Okay wow what a story

Yeah And when your dad came back Was it Did it feel like like life was getting back together for you? Did it feel like you were back on track? Definitely. It felt like, like I said, I started going to school again, started boxing. My dad had a job and life was back, back to normal. When you're, I have young kids too. I have a 13-year-old, an 11-year-old and an 8-year-old. So I know kids aren't very expressive, but you know you're out

there having to grow up fast. Do you know if your brother is feeling the same way as you, like feeling some of that anxiety, stress, worry. Are you talking about those things, or is it really just you're trying to survive? At that point or now? Well, maybe now looking back. Yeah, looking back, no, I know he got traumas from that for sure. Yeah. He don't talk about it. Okay. You don't talk about it. You guys don't talk about it. Well, I talk about it. You talk about it. You know, but together. Not really. It's a sensitive subject. Yeah. I just felt like we passed that. Yeah. I forgive everything. You know, I forgive everybody who made mistakes when I was young. Sure. So now I was like, I'm growing.

that's twenty-something years ago and that's that's in philly right yeah which part of philly uh north philadelphia okay i went to uh i spent the day in kensington oh yeah my gym's down the street from there my gym is like a quarter mile from there okay there's there's a fighter name eddie alvarez do you know eddie philly legend of course like you yeah absolutely he took me around kensington and it was it was an experience yeah you're talking about like where all the zombies are at like all the drug addicts and stuff we talk yeah he was literally pointing them out yeah you're showed me the needles on the ground and stuff like that. Yeah, well, that's, it's crazy because that's Kensington and Allegheny.

So, like, I used to be, I used to go shopping around there when I was a kid for, like, sneakers. Like, they said they have sneakers stores around there and stuff. But that wasn't always like that. Okay. What happened was, like, all the homeless people, they used to live underneath the bridges, like in Philly, like underneath their bridges. But when they genderified the neighborhoods, they kicked them all out. Okay. made them move so they all moved underneath the L and that's how that became met so that wasn't

always like that like kenton allegheny was actually a nice place back in the day was stores and you can go shopping you know like um sneaker stores the clothing stores everything and then when they gendered the neighborhood and they pushed all the homeless people over there and then it just kind of turned into that like fentanyl and stuff right i guess i don't know what happened but it just made a bad turn when did you start to think hey i could i could do something with this boxing like this could be my way out i'm actually really really good yeah uh it's a good question i played basketball i played football i played every sport and um when i put the gloves on it just felt natural it's like i was hitting the bag i just felt good like i was a like a fighter i actually got my first fight

two weeks into the gym they took me to um i was hitting the bag i remember a trainer in the gym when i first started his name was um uh mike maloy and jimmy lowry and they came out to me to say hey are you a boxer i said i just started he said you look like you know how to fight you want to fight so they put me to this fight it's like a smoker show in philly it was called the racker club this one people were smoking like cigars and everything yeah how old are you i was 75 pounds so i was young you were seven years old i think jeez louise louis Yeah, 75 pounds, and I went. I remember I threw everything.

I just threw everything. My nose was bleeding, but I just kept throwing. Did you win? Yeah, I won, but I forgot everything I ever learned in the shift. Why I didn't barely learn anything. But I won, and it was, and then it was just history from them. So do you think that moment you were like, okay, I like this, I'm going to keep doing it? Yeah, and then I started to hear something about the Olympics.

Yeah. Like when I was young, everybody was talking about the Olympics, Olympics, Olympics. I'm like, I'm going to try to go to the Olympics. I went a gold medal or something. my year was 2008 I didn't I was the alternate I thought I was going to be the Olympian

but you know politics and what happened I lost in the finals in the Olympic trials and you think it was politics I think so because the first round

like the score was ridiculous it was like 10 to 1 and something like damn he didn't even hit me 10 times so I'm like I lost before I got in the ring I think they was just hitting that button that day so

yeah I've heard your dad say once you got the alternate you're like yeah we're not alternates for anyone right then you just you just dipped right yeah i was already talking to um shelly finkel and um eric gomez from golden boy i already knew that no matter what i did that in that tournament if i won i was going to the olympics but i already knew that i was going to sob a golden boy okay after that do you in retrospect do you wish you stuck with it just to see like someone you know who knows what happens or are you happy? I feel like that whole year

that passed by I got eight fights by the time he turned pro I think I was already like in the top ten of some you know so I think it's the best decision I ever did was not wait and turn pro

what's your like when if someone's maybe I know it's the end of the career but you know we talked to all different kinds of combat fans like I want to see a quintessential Danny Garcia fight the peak of his career

the Danny Garcia fight is it That's a good question because I had a lot of ups and downs, but I still had a lot of great performances. Like Morales, that was great, 2012. Then I beat Guerrero for the belt. I felt like I did real good. I looked good. And then even after like the Thurman fight, I knocked out like Brandon Rios.

So I still had great moments in my career. And then even after the two-year layoff, after Spend. I came back and out with Box Benevita, who only had one loss against Terrence Crawford, you know, the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world right now. So I feel like I have a lot of great performances. I don't want to... There's not one that sticks out.

Probably Matisse. Okay, yeah. Yeah, Matisse. That's probably like my favorite because I was the underdog. Nobody thought I was going to win. And that just like, that defines Danny Garcia. That defines my career. where, like someone who's not supposed to be here, still here.

Yeah. 13 years later, promoting his own show. It's amazing. Yeah. How are you, so whether or not this is the last one or the second to last one, we're approaching the end, right? Yeah, for sure. How are you coming to terms with that?

How do you think it's going to be when the music stops? I feel happy. I feel happy. You know, I made, I got a great team. I made some good investments. I don't have to worry about money. Like I said, I got a beautiful family. I know my dad's going to miss it.

He loves boxing. This is, it changes his life. So, um, but I think I'm going to feel good. I'm going to feel good because I'm still going to be a promoter and I'm still going to be around boxing. What is your goal as far as the promotion is concerned? Obviously, we've seen guys crossover, Oscar, a great example. We've seen others as well.

How, you know, and, you know, some guys have their promotion here. They're happy to be here. Kind of like the promotion that gets guys to the next level. Some want to be the top dog. They want to be number one. What is your goal? No, I don't want to be no local promoter. I want to be, well, you got to start local.

Sure. You got to learn the ropes. That's how I even did this show. That's how I did this show because I did all the little ones first. Yeah. I did it for like, I did like six, seven little shows. I learned the little wrinkles, learned the game. Very tough business.

But I want to be one of the best promoters and I want to sign the best fighters and make champions. I feel like if you could be a world champion and then make world champions, that's that's different that's like like what oscar's done that's that's different you think oscar has done a good job with golden boy i mean i can't say nothing bad about oscar um they moved me good they had me at five-star hotels um had some of the biggest fights Morales Khan Matisse

I think they did I think they did agree with you out with me who do you think is the best promoter in boxing right now and promoter? Yeah that's a tough question I don't know I feel like they're all on the same level right now right now I feel like they're all on the same level

really I do I think Eddie Hearns a notch above just with his passion the way he speaks he loves his fighters yeah he loves his fighters for sure he's into it yeah like i don't know did you watch boots this past weekend of course he gets on the microphone afterwards and some would like that some don't but i think boots kind of likes it because it takes a bit of the shine away from him where he has this gift of gab you don't see a lot of people cutting promos like that in the ring immediately after a fight yeah because he understands eddie understands like social media yeah understands like the after shock yeah yeah yeah so he he understands how to gain he's he's he's in tuned

you know so he knows what to say and uh how to promote his fighter and that's good that's great you need that absolutely you need it you need somebody pushing you and um threading the needle for you so you're going to be that guy for these fighters now once you're done absolutely absolutely i want to be that guy for sure can i ask a big story so obviously we cover mMA as well is dana White getting into boxing. Yeah. Actually, just had a very spirited chat with Pauli Malinaji about this yesterday. He's not a fan of it.

He's very upset about it. Do you have any thoughts on Dana White and Zufa boxing starting up next year? I feel like it's too soon to tell. You got to give him a shot first. You can't say it's not going to work yet or it's going to work. You just got to give it time. You just don't know. Yeah.

You know, that's my honest opinion. There's talks, actually, they're having a hearing right now about the Ali Act, about making changes to it and all that. Has that benefited you? Would you feel some sort of way about it going away or being radically changed where it's more like MMA and the fighters don't have access to finances and things like that? No, they got to keep the Ali Act because you can't double dip. That's what the Ali Act protects.

You can't be a manager and a promoter. you can't yeah i feel like if anything the fighter should be on the table you know he should know what's in that budget he should know yeah what's in the budget because i mean if they tell you if they tell the promoter a million he come back and tell you 500 000 yeah that doesn't exist in mama you know that right there's there's no ali actor or a version of it in mama so the fighters don't have that type of it's basically take it to leave it you know and I feel like no boxing shouldn't be like that

if there's 20,000 in the pot they should know it's 20,000 you know I feel like it's I mean you're you're risking your life this is you're risking your life so I feel like a fighter should be compensated for what he's worth obviously and he should know what it is

also in MMA you have managers acting as promoters there's no rules against that can you can you tell me why you think that shouldn't happen why why is that a bad thing to double dip as you say because like I said are say I'm the promoter I know your purse could be a million

and I come back and tell you 500,000 right there I took 500,000 for you without you even knowing now I'm your manager and I'm going to come take 20% or 30% out of that 500K problem

huge problem that's what the Ali Act protects double-dipping. So I just took money from the top and then I took another 20% of what you're making. That's highway robbery, that's stealing. That should be a crime.

You should be thrown in jail for that. That's called corporate extortion. So yeah, let's see what happens here. No, they can't get rid of the Ali yet. You can't. They just try to make it where it's like do what I say type thing. can't do that

boxing's not like that what about the belts they want to have their own belt the Zufa boxing belt they're not going to have WBC title fights WBA they don't want to recognize those and then there are others like we had Eddie on what was it last week where he's like no like

there is no fighter in my stable that wants to be the matchroom champion they all want to be WBC champion I mean you got understand Ali held WBA yeah Ali held the WBC Mike Tyson had the IBF Duran Like legendary fighters Held these belts

For many I don't know how much years Them belts been around Yeah some some I'm not a fan of If anything I'm not a fan of new belts Right Right

Is it already enough Yeah So you know the Ring magazine The WBC WBA WBL IBF Those are the four main ones

Yeah Even in the IBO. The IBO, that's still a good belt that's been around. You know, put some, it'll be good on your resume. But we can't tamper with boxing. Boxing has been around for so many years. It's like somebody buying the NFL and saying, we're not going to have the Lombardi Trophy no more.

Yeah. We're going to name it the Danny Garcia trophy. People are like, we ain't trying to hear that. You know what I mean? So it was like, leave boxing alone, man. Just spin around for, I mean, I'm a fan of change to make it, you know, I understand what he's trying to do, add more structure to it, but I feel like you can't take any power away from the fighters on the

business side. I understand it does cause conflict. Like sometimes fighters think they're worth more, sometimes, you know, sometimes fighters are hard to deal with. So I do get his side where it's like, okay, this is what you're taking, this is the contract, it is what it is. some fighters make it to where like they're bigger than life and that was like you got to take that and there's a crazy upside you know so you're starting to get into that side of the game too

as the promoter yeah yeah so i understand i understand what he's trying to do that's why i mean um i understand but i just don't think i just feel like me as a fighter i think fighters should always have should know what's what's going on in his career or you need a lawyer or a good manager who's been in the game for a long time because sometimes you can have a manager but he can't do nothing for you how do you feel about the current state of boxing especially with you know turkey al-shake and Saudi Arabia and these big fights being made and there's a lot of money yeah there's a lot of money being paid to a lot of big fighters do you like the way we are at right now the way

the spore is at do you like the way it's going yeah I like it I mean my first fighters are getting paid i love it yeah i love it it's just uh i feel like boxing doesn't have a home like it used to be like hb on showtime that was home yeah you know now it was boxing is just everywhere and i think that's probably the uh that's probably like the scariest part about it yeah because there's basically the zone they have a bunch of promoters top rank doesn't even have a TV deal right now. Right. Which is kind of scary. Yeah. Zufa boxing is going to go to Paramount and that's pretty much it.

I got Prime, Prime, BBC, but I don't know what's going on. You know, they just canceled this, this fight coming up, Thurman and Fendora. You got hurt, right? You got hurt. It hasn't been as consistent as I thought it was going to be, at least my opinion. Showtime leaving after HBO was a big blow. I know you needed on Showtime. I think that heard a lot of people.

Yeah. That heard a lot of people. What about you? I would think they will want it because it's like, it's diversity right you need sports i don't know what happened but uh that was sad HBO was really sad too in showtime but showtime even more for me because i was a part of that of course i was a part of that run uh your fight is going to air on millions dot co yes sir this is a streaming platform yes sir and there's a and direct tv and direct tv and direct tv if you have

direct tv you can watch it on direct tv or millions dot co okay and what is millions dot co for those that may not know is a new streaming platform i'm actually part owner of it you invest invested in it. Yes, yeah, yeah. So this is my show from top to bottom. So Millions.com is the sporting app. All types of sports, football, shows, highlights, everything. So, yeah, it's going to be streaming on Minions.com, my fight. Okay. And I'm sure you're seeing, like, Pacquiao came back. Yeah. He almost beat Barrios. Yeah, for sure. I thought he won. I thought he won. I thought he won. He looked like he wanted it more. This has to inspire you, right? And you're nowhere near.

his age. Yeah, I know. I mean, man, sometimes I sit back and I, like, what motivates him? Like, what motivates Manny Pack, y'all? Yeah. I need that type of motivation. You have it? I do. Yeah, but he's, what, 46? I know, yeah. 46, 47? It's like, it's a crazy thing. Whatever pushes, whatever motivates him, he has a different type of drive. And that's why he's great. That's why I mean, he's great. But at this point, it doesn't sound like you're going after belt or anything like that. You just kind of want to go out your way, right? Exactly, yeah. With a W? Yeah, I just want to go with my hand raised in the sky and just be happy. Well, I wish you nothing but the best. Thank you. Good luck to you. What a great pleasure to have you in here. Really enjoyed the chat. Again, it's October 18th at Barclays

10th time for you there. Your first fight was in 2012. Record setting. By the way, why aren't there enough? Like, it feels like there were so many boxing events at Barclays and now it feels like they're few and far between. Why is that? That's a good question. We need to ask them. Yeah, maybe something over there, right? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, because it used to be like always, right? Yeah, Brooklyn is big. Yes.

The Barclay Center, that's a great place. The last one was probably Ryan Garcia against, no. It was Tank and LaMont Rouge. Oh, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then prior to that was. And that broke the record, 19,000. And then prior to that was Devin Haney and Ryan Garcia. So, like, they're averaging like one a year now.

Yeah, and before that was me. And before that was you. 22. So it's really one a year. Yeah, yeah. By the way, what do you think of tank fighting Jake Paul? Hey, listen. get that money man okay you don't hate it nah get that money you win into 11 his game yeah

yeah yeah so a certain level you got you gotta do it's best for your family yeah he can always come back and fight somebody of course but do you think he had to fight roach first not really because i don't think going inside that fight nobody wanted to see the roach sure sure sure sure but the only the only reason why they want to see is because who's this guy who game a tough fight sure sure sure sure you know I think that's why but uh in my opinion he did the right decision okay you gotta get the money that's what feeds your family a lot of people don't like that but it's the truth right the windows only that's how you got to look at it if you weren't his shoes what would you do oh no no I don't begrudge him no I'm just saying I

get it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I get it I get it it it could all end tomorrow that's how I always look at it because somebody asked me that before they said what you know I was asking why this why that? Why is he doing this? He said, Danny, let me ask you a question. If you weren't his shoes, how would you feel? And I said, you know what? I'll be happy. Yeah. And every since then, that's how I look at it. Yeah. Well, I love the happiness that's radiating often right now. Good luck. October 18, Barclay Center. Go check it out. Great card.

Danny Garcia, perhaps for the final time, 85%, but definitely the final time in Brooklyn. Yes, sir. Maybe the last one's in Philly. I don't know. Maybe. There's the card. And you'll be. you'll be honoring some of Brooklyn's finest. Big Baby, Saddam Ali, Danny Jacobs, great stuff. Swift Promotions, farewell to Brooklyn this Saturday at the Barclays Center in the BK.

Thank you so much, my man. Thank you very much. We're going to take a quick break. Say goodbye to Danny. Be back with Jeff Perlman to talk about his new book on Tupac Shakur. Do not go anywhere. Okay. Back on the program, that was our conversation with the great Marab,

De Wally Shfeely, when we broke the news to him. We broke it to him. that he was going to be fighting on December 6th. Fourth title defense, if he wins, that will be a record for successful title defense in 2025 and perhaps will seal the deal for him to be the male fighter of the year in MMA. We shall see what's going on outside. It looks like it's a little cloudy out there.

A little cloudy. Yeah. Great chat with Danny Garcia. Great stuff with Stephen Spice. Great stuff with Sean Brady. He's still to come, the master of the diamond cutter, Mr. Diamond Dow's page. But first, I told you about this book earlier. Only God can judge me, the many lives of Tupac Shakur.

And it's written by a man who I do believe is the best book author. And I would have said sports author, but right now, as you can see, he is transitioning into a whole new world with this book. He has written 10 books to date. This will be the 11th. It comes out on October 21st, so six days from now. You can pre-order it right now. And as I said, massive fan of his. I've talked to him once before, has written books on Barry Bonds, the USFL, Roger Clemens, Bo Jackson, the 1986 New York Mets, entitled The Bad Guys Won, the great Walter Payton, Brett Fav. The Showtime Lakers, and then the Cobian Shack and Phil Jackson Lakers. The Showtime Lakers book ended up becoming an HBO series called Winning Time, which I enjoyed very much. And like I said, the amount of research that went into this, the journalism that went into this, the stuff that he unearthed about the one and only Tupac Shakur, an icon, really breathtaking and mesmerizing. It starts right off the bat.

He's phenomenal on his podcast called Two Writers Slinging Yang. He's tremendous on his YouTube channel, which I'm a big. fan of the Pressbox Chronicles. He's great on TikTok as well. He's prolific. He's a former Sports Illustrated writer and a man who's had his byline printed, posted all over the world, a real success story and an inspiration to the likes of me, doing it his own way and doing it as well as anyone, if not better. He's the one and only Jeff Perlman. He is here in studio right here and now. Yes, there he is. The man, yes, there we are. Hello, Jeff. Hey. It's so great to see you. Yeah. Welcome. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. You're all nice and tan. Ah, man, I'm California.

Man, you don't look like a typical writer who's like hold up in a, uh, in a coffee shop or something. You look fantastic. I appreciate that. I just want to say the weirdest thing. Can you, uh, yeah, bring the mic to you. Yeah, I get comfortable here. Hello, hello. So I just walk past Danny Danny Garcia. Danny Garcia, yeah. And I don't have much exposure to boxes. I haven't covered box in a long time. Okay. And he walks by and I think, I could kick this guy's Like I could beat this guy I'm smaller than me but I don't think I could

No no no He's a small guy He's probably right now Maybe 160 pounds But um I'm at like 190 I could probably I know but it would not be a fair fight

It's great to see you here It's gonna show real Because I've seen you all over the place I know TikTok superstar I wouldn't say that But I appreciate you're prolific on there That's true

I'm a huge fan of the YouTube channel I know we're not here to talk about the YouTube channel But press box chronicles I'll put that thing on You know what I'll do There it is Go subscribe

I'll download a few of them and save them for a flight, they're usually 20, 25 minutes. Yeah. You watch the, I love the Kobe one with the Nets, the recent one on Tupac, the Moneyball one. You do a great job with that.

The production quality is great because if I could say about two writers slinging yang, you do a great job with that as well. Sometimes it sounds like you're recording it off this, you know, straight on the phone. This is high production quality. Two writers, singing yang is just a passion project mine for other journalists.

But this, I got approached to do, and I didn't think anyone would watch it. I swear to God, I was like, some 50-something year old sports rider just talk, but it's done really well. So you never know. I actually think there's a connection to the fight world as far as the people who approach you. Was it a guy named Markell Martin? Well, it was 3.0 labs. Yes. He's a part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's a long-time MMA manager for the likes of, did you not know this?

No. Wow. Francis Inganu? You don't know this. Used to work at the UFC? Okay, well, so you have a connection to the fight world. That's what I was thinking, of course. Yes, that perhaps you didn't know. We are here, though, to talk. about this great book. It is called Only God Can Judge Me, The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur, which I'm very excited about, which I've had the opportunity to read, and I've seen you do a bunch of media on it. And I actually wanted to ask you about that, because I saw you today on TikTok saying, like, you saw the book at Barnes & Noble, and that's a surreal thing. You're kind of at the sort of beginning of the promotional tour. Very early.

Does it, is it exhausting? Like, do you like this part of it, or do you just want this part to be over and go with? Oh, no. I love it. Okay. Because it's a celebration of your work. It is tiring. It's physically tiring. And every now and then you get people who haven't cracked open the book at all and you know just have a list. You could probably tell off the bat. Oh, it's very easy. Yeah. And that's totally fine. No one has an obligation to read your book, obviously. And it's great they have you on. But I love like the interviews. Like I know your work, right? So I know what kind of interviews you do and what kind of research you do. And I get excited for that stuff. You know, but if it's someone who just didn't read the book, it's totally fine,

but it's a different experience. I'm wondering about the anxiety in this moment because like, The book is out in six days, the pre-ordering and all that. You kind of have to now turn into a salesman. Very much so. Right? A lot. Do you like that? Do you hate that?

Do you dread that? I don't like asking for favors. Yeah. You know, I mean, I asked you for a favor. I said, can I send you a copy of the book? So that's it. I do not enjoy asking for favors, but you kind of have to. And one thing I've learned through my years of right,

then my 11th book, right? You're never going to have a better publicist than you. You're never going to have someone who has better connections than you because you work in me. I, like you, work in media, and I know all these people are now in hip hop. So they give you a publicist. Harper Collins is a great publicist named Megan Wilson,

which has been awesome. But ultimately, ultimately, it's up to me to sell the book. That's how I see it. What's more stressful? This part, the selling or the actual, like you're hunkering down, you're doing it, like the actual book writer. Oh, the book, right?

The book, okay. Torture. Because you use that word, and I've heard, I've, like, thought a little bit about writing a book. Like, it's kind of here. I joke that it's going to be called Highway to Halwani one day. And you use the word torturous makes me want nothing to do with it. Yeah.

So why do you do it and now for the 11th time in your life? Why put yourself through this? All right. So a friend of mine named Jonathan Iig wrote a really great book about Martin Luther King, King of biography. And it wound up winning the Pulitzer. It's a great, great book. And we were having dinner somewhat recently when I was working on this.

And I was complaining. I was like, Jesus Christ, this is hard and blah, blah. And he goes, listen. He's like, you are getting paid to get a PhD in Tupac Shakur. Like, stop whining about it. You are actually getting a PhD. And I really, it's important for me to think of it that way because the high is this immersive experience

where you're learning everything and you're traveling all over and you're retracing the steps of this person you've long admired and been fascinated by. But the torture is just like, the self-loathing, the thinking it's going to suck, the thinking people are going to hate it, the thinking, why can't I feel this fact I really need?

Why can't I find out what kind of soda he liked? Why is it just soda? I want to know if it's Pepsi or Coke or Sprite. Like little things like that. like that, torture me more than you could possibly know. Like little details that you have to find and sometimes can't kill me. And I give you so much props. So the, the journalism, the research that goes into your books, and in particular this one, I think 700 interviews, right? I think I hit 652. 650. Okay. We'll round up to 700. Yeah, we're going to 700. And honestly, off the bat, I know you were on

all the smoke yesterday and you told this story with the actual kid involved, which just blew me away, seeing him sitting there. Off the bat, I read the first chapter. I'm a kid of the 90s as well. I adore Tupac. I used to, before my basketball games, I would listen to hit him up

to get me hyped up. Like, that was my song. Did it work? Did it work? Absolutely. I mean, it was like the greatest hype song of all time, the greatest disc track as well.

And my wife, same age, same grade. I told her you have to read this first. Like I used to make her mixtapes of, you know, Machiavelli and all this. You know what I mean? Changes. You have to read this. I was blown away.

And I hate to ask, ask you to giveaways. Okay, but can you just tell us? Because when I told Eric in the back, my producer, he was blown away, Brenda's got a baby. Okay. Very famous song. You know the song, obviously. Of course, yes.

So that was Ray Tupac's first big song. He did, he had a verse on same song by Digital Underground, but this was his first album, first single, Brenda's got a baby. And it's about, Tupac is filming juice. It's 1991. He was filming juice in New York. You've seen juice? Of course.

Okay. Omar Epps. He gets a daily news delivered to him every day. handed to him by a PA. And one day there's this article, cries in the night. It's a long article, and he's reading it.

And it's about a 12-year-old girl who is raped by a cousin in the noble Jurelli housing unit in Brooklyn. No one knows she's pregnant. She delivers a baby on the bathroom floor. She takes a baby, puts a baby in an odd job plastic bag,

opens a shoe, the trash chute, throws a baby down the chute. It's the day that the incinerator groves off in the basement. But a guy who works downstairs in the basement, hears it, here's a baby crying. Picks up the baby, takes a baby to the hospital. There's an article about this.

Tupac is filming juice. He reads this article. He literally says to Omar Epps, I got to go back in my trailer. He sits down. This is how he wrote very quick. Brenda's got a baby, but Brenda's barely got a brain.

A damn shame. The girl can hardly spell her name. This kind of fictional or not fictional account based on the story he reads. So I love that song, and I think the song is really important in the Tupac catalog. So I have a very good friend

from my hometown of him. of Mayo Pack, New York named Michelle Sully, who's an awesome, awesome genealogist, the best I've ever worked with. And I said, do you think we could try to find this baby? She's like, well, it's hard, but five days later, she says, I think this is his number. And she gives me a phone number.

And I text this guy, and I'm like, hey, basically my name's Jeff Perron, because you can't call because nobody answers our phones anymore. Hey, my name's Jeff Perum, and this is kind of weird, but I'm a writer, I'm working on a Tupac book, by any chance is this you? And I sent the article over text. He writes back, he basically says, holy crap,

give me a call tomorrow fast forward i go to los vegas in a couple of days he lives in los Vegas uh his name is devan hodge he's great and he is the baby who's thrown down the trash heap and basically his story is he was adopted after this happened his parents moved to los Vegas he was brought up in los Vegas his parents both died his adopted parents recently he does a dna sir an ancestry search it comes back with all these ties to brooklyn and the noble jew ali housing unit he reaches out to him they're like holy Like crap, we've been wondering what happened to you for years, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Are you a Tupac fan?

And he's like, yeah, I love Tupac. He goes, we think the song Brenda's got a baby's based on you. He flies to Brooklyn. He meets with all the relatives. It's like this Antoine Fisher reunion where they have, you know, hey, baby and the food and the love and everything. And it's this moment for him. But he has never found his mom. I go back to my genealogist, Michelle Sully.

I'm like, do you think we could find the mom? He's like, that might be hard. She finds a number. And she calls this number. And she's like, is this Jeanette? And the woman's like, who is this? She's like, I'm Michelle. And basically, I'm working with this writer, Jeff Perlman, about Tupac.

Did you have a baby when you were 12? And she starts screaming. Do you know where my baby is? Do you know where my baby is? She's crying. Holy cow, do you please tell me you know where my baby is? I've been looking for my baby for decades. Do you know where my baby is?

And Michelle says, yeah, I do actually. And she said, the woman says, I live in Newark, New Jersey, but I'm away from home because I'm going to see the red hot silly peppers. And Michelle says, well, where are they playing? Las Vegas. That night, they meet for the first time. Wow. And that's the opener. It gives me chills. Oh, me too. It's an unbelievable story. Were you there when they met? No, sadly, I wasn't. Did you want to be there? Of course. I just wasn't. But it wouldn't have been, it wouldn't have been right for me to be there. Right. Like this was a very personal moment involving a lot of trauma and a lot of stuff that had

nothing to do with me. And sometimes you're just, I'm writing a book, but this is real life. I love that you start the book with that. By the way, as an aside, this incredible genealogist, Michelle. You went to high school with her. You spoke to her like five times you said. Yeah. And now she's like finding you Brenda's baby. She's like my BFF.

How does that happen by the way? How are you in school with someone? Facebook. Yeah. And we were a big class, 330 people. And she was here and I was here and we didn't talk very much. And then we just reconnected over Facebook. And for one of my past books, I was looking for a genealogist.

And I think I wrote something on Facebook maybe and she responded. And she's probably now my closest friend from Aopack. Wow. So that type of research and journalism, I don't think is seen as exemplified in many of these books. And I think that's what always separates you. Like you always want to, you don't want to just tell the story. You don't want it to just be a biography. You want us to learn things about these people.

Historically, you do sports books. This is your first non-sports book, right? Yeah. Why make that transition? A couple of reasons. I was always inspired by, this is going to sound weird. I was always inspired by Garth Brooks years ago, did a rock album. Okay, there was it called like the Chris Gaines's greatest hits and it flopped and everyone made fun of Garthburgs for trying this. And I was always like, I swear to God, I was always like, I really admire the fact that this guy tried something totally different. It's always been in my head like, I want to try something different and I've always been fascinated by Tupac. And it's like one of those things where you're waiting for the book that you want to read to come along and suddenly you're like, maybe I should just write it. Like, why can't I do it? Why can't I try it? I know there, look, I'm not a, I'm not black and that does make a difference with Tupac. There was no doubt about.

He is an important figure, not just in cultural history, but there are many black men and women in America who feel attached to him in very profound and important ways. I can, I don't have that. It just couldn't be. I'm a sports writer, I'm not a hip-hop writer, I'm not a music writer. Those are deficiencies. What do I know how to do?

I know how to research, and I know how to dig, and I know how to drive to different places and see different people, and I know how to throw myself into it, so I tried to make up for my deficiencies with just kind of doggedness. Why are you always fascinated by him? I love his music. There's something shocked you from Digital Underground said years ago.

He said paraphrasing. He said, a lot of rappers rap from the tongue and some rap from the throat. And Tupac raps from the stomach. And he like, kind of like DMX and Tupac. It's too authentic. And there's something so raw and so real and so harsh about Tupac. And you add in like this metamorphosis from art school kid to death row to dying young and this wild, just ups and downs of his life.

And I just never felt like it was chronicled in a really detailed way. And also, I think there are a lot of very lazy takes on Tupac. I think there are a lot of revisionist history. Oh, I was best friends with Puck. Oh, me and Puck. And the truth of matter is, his sister told me this. He was a very lonely person. He was a very isolated person.

A lot of people are asking him for stuff, as happens with famous people. Can you get me this? Can you get me that? He's in prison. People are asking him for stuff. I just thought there was something there that I wasn't. seeing. When I think of Tupac, the Tupac before I read this book, I think of Thug Life. I mean, I knew about Baltimore and I knew about Jada Pinkett. Like, I knew his story. He's a very smart

guy. But, you know, you think of Thug Life and the boxers showing and hit him up and all that stuff. Would it be fair to walk away from this saying that he wasn't actually that guy? Like, he was a bit of a gangster wannabe. He was a bit of a poser in that regard. Is that too harsh? I think it's too harsh. Okay. Because that is insinuated at times, no? Sure. I put it, this is how I think of it, for real. He was living in Marin City in his, this is when his mom was at the height of her crack addiction. He was living with some friends. He was dirt, dirt, poor, but he was really getting into hip-hop.

And he was building a name for himself in Marin City. This is where he changed his rap name from MC New York, which he went by. One of his guys, Ryan D. is like, he goes, literally, Tupac is a dope-ass name. Why aren't you going with that? He's like, all right, I'll go with Tupac. because I'm going to see New York. Anyway, he's trying to build himself. And one day he gets in a rap battle with his 13-year-old kid named TAC, T-A-C,

and Tupac gets his ass kicked. They rap a battle in front of people. Tupac just gets destroyed. Tupac comes back to the apartment, and he's devastated. Just devastated. And he vanishes for five days. And no one knew where he went. His roommates, no idea.

Where's Tupac? Well, he spent these days at the time in Marin City, there was a guy that the crack kingpin of Marin City. was this guy named Bobby Burton. And Tupac asked Bobby Burton, can I follow you around for five days? Can I just hang with you for five days? And for five days, Tupac followed him around,

took notes, what is it to be a crackdown? What is it to be a gangbanger? What is it to be this? What is it to be that? And after five days he returns, and he writes a song called Days of a Criminal, which is this badass song of Tupac, or at least Tupac song.

I feel like what he became was a chronicler of maybe not stuff he entirely lived, but stuff he wanted to explain. to people. So was he a gangmanger? No, he was never in a gang. He was, you know, death row was mob pyru affiliated and he would give them shoutouts, but was he a member? No. As I T said, you're not 25 joining a gang. That's ridiculous. Was he a drug dealer, a failed drug dealer who probably tried three times and sucked. One guy who so one guy gave him a chance to sell drugs for him and he said, he told me he's like, I would have just been better off paying two pucks

of money because the guy was ridiculously bad. But he wanted to tell the stories of the experience around him and that's what he was storyteller that guy like how do you find that guy name of a name of a name his name was Marku Reynolds and he was a basically a hip hop artist slash guy in marine city and what happens is you'll interview one guy and who would like you know he need to talk to talk to that guy and my best one I went so tubac in Marin City crack was this overtaking where's Marin City where in northern California not far from San Francisco and Oakland and that's where he he was raised in these projects called the jungle in Marin City, public housing. And I found one of the main crack dealers there was this guy named Brian Tynes from back in the day. And a lot of people

are like, talk to Brian, you'll understand Marin City. I reached out to this guy. He's like, come on up. And I'm sitting with Brian Tines, no longer a crack dealer in the front seat of his car in Marin City interviewing him about being a crack dealer, about young Tupac, about poverty, about addiction, all this stuff. And I always say the same thing to someone like this when I'm interviewing. I'm a guy from a different world. I'm like, I recognize I'm a sports writer. I'm a white guy. I'm from rural New York. I recognize all of that. But you will never have anyone who's more interested to hear what you have to say than me. Never. I'm fascinated by your life. And I think people really like that. You know, I think you could be any color from anywhere. If you tell people

they are generally fascinated and you mean it, it goes a long way. If you're starting a book on X sports subject, you probably have a bit of a leg up because you know someone you live in that world, you know this guy, who knows that guy. This is a completely different world for you, right? So when you're starting off, are you starting at literally ground zero, no context whatsoever, and how daunting is that? Oh, it's really daunting. First thing I do is I go to eBay and I buy every book that's been written about Tupac,

any magazines, old magazines I could find. And the next thing I do, that's really key, is I get all the old yearbooks. Wow. There's, I couldn't live without high school and younger yearbooks. Why is that? because they literally give you a listing of every single. So the Baltimore School for the Arts Yearbook, there's a listing of everyone he went to high school with.

So I just go name by name, by name, by name. How do you even find those? How do you buy those? Oh, there's a website, classmates.com that has a bunch of yearbooks. You can call it the school and try to get your book. I'm good friends with a guy from the Washington Postman named Dave Schein and a great sports writer. And Dave lives near Baltimore.

And I said, could you, I was like a crazy favor. Would you mind going to Dunbar one day and just seeing if they have the year from the year. He was there because Tupac was there. Tupac and Sam Cassell sat next to each other in science class. Wow. And he went to Dunbar and he took a picture of all the pages of the yearbook and just texted it to me. So then I start calling all the people from Dunbar. And if you reach out to 500 people, maybe only 50 respond, but 50 classmates from Dunbar High School is pretty freaking good. So that's what you do. And that is, it is accurate. That is way more daunting than doing a book on Barry Bond or Walter Payton, right? Sports is my language. Yeah. Sports is no different.

And I always say my, I tell my, I joke, like, my three best languages are English sports Spanish in that order, you know, like sports are my language. I can have a sports talk with anyone anywhere. I love hip hop, but I've never written about hip hop, and I'm certainly not, I wasn't brought up in the, you know, again, I'm a white guy from rural America. I wasn't brought up surrounded by hip hop. So I walked, this was a different path to walk. Did you feel at first that people were like, nah, I don't want to talk to this?

Winning time helped a lot. Oh, okay. A lot. Yeah. gave me a lot of cred. Yeah. So I would bring that up very quickly. And then the Brenda story happened pretty early on.

So I would tell that story. I'd be like, I'll say to someone, I'll be like, blah, blah, I'm working on this book. And they'll be like, well, I don't know. I'll be like, I'll tell you what. I have the craziest Tupac story you're ever going to hear. How about I just tell it to you? And people like that. People like that you put in the time and found stuff like that.

Sure. Was there anyone that you were, for lack of a word, dying to speak to and just couldn't get, they wouldn't speak to you about it. I didn't get Dr. Dre or Snoop Dog. I'm not saying they're vital, but I didn't get them. Shug Nights in prison. I didn't get Shug? Could you get him if you?

Shug? Yeah. All right. So they have a, you can't, he's in prison near where I live. He's in San Diego. And I've gone to prisons before and just showing up in the visitation room. There are some prisons you can do that. San Diego, you have to have a pre-approved visit from the person.

They have a text messing system with this prison that you can sign up for. So I was texting Shug. Come on. Yeah. And every now and they hear right back, like, I, I found his report card from UNLV, and he got a D in music, which I thought was funny, like music appreciation, and I sent him an image of that, and he wrote back, ha-ha, and I thought that was good.

And I kept saying, I'd really love to come see you. I'd really love to come see you, and he never, he never did. Did he just not reply to that, or did he string you along? Like, or did you just say no? He would just, he never said no, but he would be like, oh, like, it would just be like random letters or like, never, he never talked. And that's not, like, you couldn't get anything out of him. via text, right?

Like, you wouldn't go off that. I try, you try, like, baiting is the wrong word. We try sending the report card and hoping he says, oh, that was a great class. Shignite, by the way, I just want to say, UNLV, defensive lineman, three games with the 1987 replacement Los Angeles Rams.

Wow. And do you know this because of USFL or just because you know everything about all your subject? I just have no lie. Yeah, that's right. And what about Dr. Jay and Snoop? Is it possible?

I knew it would be hard. Yeah. Dr. Dre had a very sort of his relationship with Tupac was not great and Snoop he's just hard to get. Is that common knowledge that. Yeah, I think so. He left. It was very acrimonious when he left death row. And the other thing interesting, the most famous Tupac song is probably California Love. Yeah. If you talk about everyone knowing it and that's a Dr. J. Tupac song, but it was really a Dr. J. Solo song and Shug Knight insisted that Tupac be on the track. And Dr. J. was never particularly thrilled by that. He was upset. He was his song. It's a great song. He didn't write it.

He produced it. The writer of that song was a guy, James Anderson, who he met at a stoplight, weirdly. Can you tell us that? Yeah, there's this guy, James Flex Anderson. I just, I saw that he wrote the song, so I reached out to him. He's from Maryland.

He'd recently gotten out of the armed services. He moves to California to become a songwriter. He's having no luck, no, to be a rapper. He's having no luck whatsoever. I swear to God, one day he's in his car with a friend, and it's a convertible, and he pulls up, oh, no, his car wasn't a convertible. Dr. J is in a convertible.

next room at a light his friend rolls down the window he's like yo dray this is my my boy jflex he's a songwriter can we get you some of his stuff and they literally had a demo tape they always kept demo tapes they flip it to him they don't know if anything's going to happen dr jay calls him invites him to the july fourth party at his house wow and jflex winds up writing california love and a bunch of other songs for dr jay wow chubach wrote his own lyrics dr jr it's not in dr jay yeah yeah why did chug want him in that song just because he was trying to push his guy Tupac? Yeah.

No, he didn't want him in the cell. Oh, Shug did. Shug did, yes. Dre didn't want him. Shug was all about Tupac. Okay. Tupac was everything Shugnight wanted out of death row. He wanted, you know, wanted gangster.

He wanted hard-nose. He wanted this thug-life ethos that Tupac had. And Tupac was his guy. In fact, Drey and Snoop both were kind of found exasperating the levels of Shugnight that he went to get Tupac sort of up and going. Okay. I mean, Chubach literally gets out of Clinton, flies to Kennedy, flies to L.A., goes to Morty's Steakhouse to eat, goes to Cam Am Studio, naps on the couch, wakes up,

first night records seven songs, including Ambitions as a Rida, and I Amad at you on that first day. Wow. He could just write and spit it. And he would, they had two studios, and he used to piss off the other artists. He would bounce back and forth. He'd have a producer here, producer, he'd work on the song here.

song here, go back and forth. Wow. He's crazy. He was a genius, musically a genius, writing a genius. Was he a good person? Who's to say? I mean, don't you find, being serious about this, wouldn't you say in the course of your career as you've grown, that becomes a more complicated question?

Sure. Like when we were younger journalists, right? Yeah. You'd spend five days, you'd spend three hours with whoever, right? And the guy was great, right? And he'd be like, oh, he's a great guy. But then you realize, like, you're only getting three hours and he's going to be nice to you because you're media.

Tupac had some amazing kindness. He did not walk past people who in need without giving. He was so devoted to his mom who didn't always share that same devotion to her son. At the same time, Iana Jackson said he raped her. He went to prison for that. There was another rape case that was, just being honest, was never reported before this book. So he had, he was not, he was a mixed, he was mixed.

Yeah, because I obviously I know that you've done stories on people that in the process of write, not stories, books, process of Brett Farf comes to mind that you say like, that dude was not good. I don't like that guy, right? And maybe even regretted working on a little bit, right? Yeah, I don't regret this book though. Okay, that's, that's what I was getting at. Because this is, you're putting a spotlight on someone's life. Obviously, he's an icon and you don't just write stories or write books on people that you like. That's not journalism, right? Of course. Actually, you know, it's funny, I'd love to get your take on this. And I don't want to forget something you just said. But there's a guy named Andrew Tate. Do you know this guy? He's very controversial, very polarizing. You know, he's been accused of stuff. And someone asked me like, hey, why do you talk about him?

You're platforming him, right? And my response to that was, and they said, would you have him on the show? And my response to that was, like, journalism isn't just talking to people that you agree with or like. That's not what this is. And I think that that's where journalism has gone. on. It's like, okay, you go to this channel because you know that they are talking about things that you like and agree with. But that's not why we get into this, right? I thought 60 Minutes had Marjorie Taylor Green on, I think it was last year. And even before this segment came out,

they were getting killed for having Marjorie Taylor Green on. I was like, she's a major figure in politics in America. Like, of course, that's a good segment. I didn't see how they did it, but like, I agree with you 100%. Like, we're not, we're not just here to kiss ass. We're not just here to promote the people we like. We're here to talk about people who are interesting, you know? Yes. Period. period that second accusation yeah I'll tell you what when was that yeah so all right so Tupac went to prison for the Ianna Jackson situation and that happened in New York at the St. Regis four months earlier so basically I was researching this book and I'm going through

these papers and I found a police report of a rape accusation against Tupac that had never been reported. And originally, I just found a redacted version with the name's all covered up. Then I found an unredacted version. And basically, this woman accused Tupac. She said they were at a club in L.A. She was there with her friend's 21st birthday. Her friends kind of ditch her, and she's there by herself. And she had danced with Tupac earlier than night. She had a boyfriend who played football at USC, but she's there with her friends. She's stranded at this club. Tupac and some of his friends say, hey, what's wrong? And she's like, my friends left me. And this is before Uber, before herself. phone. They're like, do you need a ride home? And she's like, okay. And basically, they give her a ride

home, but they're like, first we're going to stop. We got to stop and pick something up at the house, Tupac's house where I lived. She's like, okay, I'll stay in the car. He's like, no, come in, come in, come in. He goes in and according to her, he rapes her, you know, on the bed and everything won't go to details, but he rapes her. And then he had his friend say he would drive her home and basically he also forced her into sex. Okay, I find this police report. I have the name for the person. I reach out to the person who had happened to.

And she is now 52, doesn't live in the state anymore, is a mom and kids. She has no reason to talk to me. And she originally says, yeah, I don't want to relive it. That was a very horrible time of my life. Then later on, I said, do you want to see, I'd recently found the undreaded out. Do you want to see the police report?

And she's like, you know what? I would like to see it. And I showed it to her. And she called me. angry. And she's like, I forgot how awful that was. And I will talk to you about this as long as you don't use my name. Wow. She basically tells this story about how Tupac, you know, come on in, and he has a gun on his, on his night table, and she's scared. And he like starts, you know, making out with her. And then he's like doing these things you shouldn't do to a person, you know,

et cetera. She, she, she, the, uh, the other guy drops her off, forces her to also engage in a sexual act. Basically drops her off, uh, back at USC where her boyfriend lives. And she immediately files a, goes to the police, files a report. And the police never followed through. And they make this clear in the report because they said she had a chance to run away at one point and didn't. So they didn't pursue the case. And that's what pissed her off when I showed her the police report. She goes, I was 21 years old.

I was terrified. I was drunk. It wasn't that I, like, I was not in a state to just logically think, oh. And so she, when I asked her about the Iiana Jackson case, she goes, I 100% believe her. just pretty much the same thing happened to me. And like, the interesting thing about working a book like this is Tupac fans will not like hearing that story. And it's kind of like you said, like you're a journalist,

and you have a decision to make in your career. Are you going to tell a true story, a full, all-encompassing story, or you're just trying to please fans? And that was just a reality. Have you heard from anyone close to, I mean, obviously his mom's no longer with his, he has siblings. He has a sister. Sister.

Yeah, she hasn't seen the book yet. She did talk to me for the buck. She did, yes. I went down to New Orleans to see her. Okay, and how was she? So, no, no, no. I actually, I have so much respect for her. Okay.

It's probably the hardest interview I've ever done. Really? She's very, she's been battered by life too. Like these people, the Shakur family had a very, very traumatic upbringing. She actually told me, she finally went to therapy later in life. And the first thing she told the therapist about were the rats running through her at their house when she was in Baltimore. Like they had rats running along the floorboards, eating their food, all the stuff. And at one point I asked her a question.

And this was like, every now and then you interview someone and you have a moment that kind of changes the way you think about life. I said to her, what was it like when you moved from Baltimore to Marin City? And she goes to me, that's your white privilege talking. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, we didn't move. I didn't move. I was relocated. There's a difference between being moving and relocating.

And I was like, whoa. You know, like, whoa. and it really like it was good for me like it's good for me to learn about this and the way people feel about things and she's just like her whole life was traumatized she was raped she was abandoned she was raised by a crack addict who wasn't there for her her brother kind of her brother loved her but her brother was so focused on being a a music star that she was left alone to fend for herself and just a traumatic traumatic she's kind of my hero she's more than chubach in a way as his sister just a survivor of trauma wow what do you think he would say about the book I would hope he'd say, well, you got it right.

You know, I think he'd say, well, you know, it's accurate. It might be hard for him to read a little bit, you know. I don't know. I've been interested. Like, people ask me, what do I think Tupac would be doing now, right? I've talked about this a lot with people. Like, what would Tupac be doing now? And the one thing I do believe strongly, I don't know what he'd be doing.

I think the ice raids in L.A. would really, really profoundly piss him off. I think he'd have a problem with cops just driving around, grabbing brown people off streets. And I think that would be a real, real. thing for him. I could see him being a leader out there where I live. Do you think that he's still alive?

No. Okay. Oh, I can tell you, right. Okay. Because you kind of, not to spoil it, but the end is. No, no, no, he's not all. Wink, win.

Okay. You saw, I was in Lumberton, North Carolina. And his mom, a Fennie used to live there. And she had a house on a couple of acres, and it's abandoned. And the guy who's a caretaker said, do you want to go see the house? Wow.

Go inside the house. Inside a Fennie, Schorre's house. I'm like, yeah, that'd be. amazing. Yeah, I don't think he realized how meaningful that was to me. And you're walking around the house. And there are her boxes of stuff. She died in 2016. So there are these boxes of like VHS tapes and like books that were Fenni Shikors is frozen in time. Wow. Then he said, do you want to go see Tupac's grave? And I'm like, what do you mean? Because everyone knows his ashes were thrown out off of Malibu. He's like, ah, she buried his ashes here, some of his ashes here.

I was like, wait, what do you mean? And he's like, we're just following. me. And there is in the front yard of an abandoned house that no one has lived in in a decade, there is a tombstone of Tubakshikor. Which is crazy. What was it like when you saw that? Because you had no idea, right? No idea. I was in Lumberton. I drove to Lumberton because I wanted to use the library to look up old clips about her. And the stupid newspaper machine was broken in the library, so I couldn't even do it. And I was like, well, this is a wasted trip. And then I sat down with some family members including the caretaker for the property

and when standing above his grave in the middle of working on this book. Yeah. I can imagine what that feels like. Very emotional and very sort of, you know, it's like when you visit a graveyard and you kind of physically think about the person's remains below you, there's something very, something about it, you know?

You know, it's weird? All these videos now of him... I don't like it. I see why they're entertaining, but I think about his sister. Oh. And I think like, like, it's a, I feel like his sister is haunted by her brother's legacy, by being the living embodiment. I was at a street naming for Tupac in Oakland,

and she was there. This is before I ever talked to, I just watched her. And she's just like this walking bundle of like, kind of, she has like a shield around her just through all these years of trauma and also people seeing her as this almost holy figure because there was Tupac's sister.

In this process, do you ever think, man, if I had an interview with him, what would I ask? Like, if you had three questions with him, four, I know it's a tough thing to think of on the spot, but did you daydream? Like when you're just kind of sitting, right? Because a lot of your books, the people are alive to a degree. I know Walter Payton, I think you interviewed him once, right? I did. But in SI. So it's harder, I would imagine, if the subject isn't there to participate.

Did you think of what you would say to Tupac, if you could, or what you could ask him? So the thing that haunts me writing about Tupac is his death. And I would actually, I guess, in a weird way, one. Like, everything that happened with his death in Vegas at the MGM Grand ran counter to everything his mom stood for. Everything his mom stood for. In what way? So she was, you know, his mom of Fennie, Panther 21 trial, Black Panther should be taught in history books. Fenni Shigour should be deemed a historic figure in this country.

And we don't even touch her just as far as like. what she did for the Black Panthers, how she stood up for herself, representing herself in a trial where she could have gone for jail, the Cointel Pro, everything. She's amazing, and she was his hero. And now it's the Mike Tyson-Brus Seldon fight.

And Tupac loved Tyson. Tubac wrote the entrance song for Tyson for that fight and the Frank Bruno fight. Fight ends quick. I think Bruce Soutin probably took a dive. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous how bad it was. I mean, come on.

Anyway, fight ends. Tobac is all jazzed up. He's in the lobby of the end. Jam Jam Grand. And he's standing next to a guy, Ma Pairoo guy, Baby Lane. And they see Orlando Anderson in the lobby, not that far away, wearing a Dan Marino, super baggy Dan Marino of Miami Dolphins Jersey. And Baby Lane goes to Tupac and says, that's him. And Tupac says who? He goes, that guy, that's the MFer who took my medallion. Because somewhat recently in a mall, there was his brawl between a bunch of Compton Crips and a bunch of mobs.

And someone took his chain, ripped his chain off. And Tubach says, who? He's that guy right there. Tubac walks up, says, you from the South? Yeah, punches him. All the death row guys jump in, right? Why do you say, are you from the South? Southside, Southside, crap.

Oh, got it. Now you just speak the whole language. You know what? I learned a lot. I know not to wear red when I do this. Actually, not even joking. I learned a lot. So, so everyone's like, oh, the mystery of his

out the mystery of his death. I interviewed a really good friend of Orlando Anderson, the guy who they beat up. He's his closest friend from childhood. And he goes, there is no way Orlando Anderson could come back to Compton having his ass kicked by a rapper. Like he couldn't do it. Like reputation wise. Imagine coming back to Compton. You can get beat up by a gangbanger. You got beat up by a rapper, not even a big rapper? Like the reputation alone. So later on that night, they go, it's Orlando Anderson, it's Keefee Dee, it's two other guys. They're driving around, looking, just driving around Vegas. They go to Shugg's Club, 662, I think it was 662, and he's not there, and they're just driving around looking. Tupac is dangling out the window of Shug's car, hollering at women,

even though his fiance's back at the hotel. Orlando Anderson is like, yo, that's Pock right there. And they pull up to him, and he shoots him. And everyone's like, oh, it was, you know, the mystery of it all. Was it diddy? Was it biggie? I just don't buy it. And most people I talk to from death row, don't buy it either. Like, it would be an incredible arranged thing to have Orlando Anderson standing in the MGM gram, Tupac, you're seeing him walking up to him, punching him, and then finding Tupac later driving around.

Like, whoever coordinated that would have to be the greatest mastermind of all time. My point is, Tupac walking, Tupac didn't have to walk up to him. Tupac didn't have to put. You're literally surrounded by gangbangers? You think Lionel Ritchie or Holland Oates are going up and punching him? You know, it's like utterly, he's the talent of death row.

why are you doing that? And I just think a fennie like it's anti-everything Black Panther hitting another black man acting this way to a guy

you don't even know what he did like it's so anti what his mom stood for and it was so unnecessary and so stupid and that's like a universal everyone I talked to was like his death

is a dumbest thing ever he should be alive today like he should be alive today he'd be he was a Jim Belushi told me he's like that guy was two movies away from an Academy Award.

I talked to a guy Dupree Kelly, who was in Lords of the Underground, and he's now a city councilman in Newark, New Jersey, and he's like, he would have been a great political leader. Like, he's the guy who inspired me to run for office. He should be here today.

And that was a stupid, stupid stuff. And I interviewed a guy from Death Row named Mob James, and his former gangbanger, and he said to me, he's like, he's like, it just pisses me off. He's like, Shug sold him this bag of good.

about how you're supposed to act and what it means to be street. And he's like, that wasn't Tupac. That's not who he was. He was a storyteller and like a gifted actor and he just bought that crap and because of it, he's dead.

And just sucks. So that's how I feel. Was he paranoid at that point? Oh. Was he starting? Profoundly so. Yeah. Profound.

He was raised by mother who always, understandably so, thought she was being watched. You know, she came up with being spied on by NYPD, by FBI, the whole Cointel Pro. She would put peanut butter on the walls so no fingerprints could be tracked. She would walk different ways home so no one was following her. And Tupac certainly was that way. He wasn't wearing, he oftentimes wore a bulletproof

vest. He was not wearing one in Vegas. He left in L.A. Why? He did not like wearing a bulletproof vest. And he also said it's hot as hell in Las Vegas. Right. And so why do you think people have run with this theory that he's not actually dead? Is it just what we do for celebrities or is it because he never had the funeral, right? No, but he, well, Well, they had a memorial service in Malibu where his loved ones. A couple of reasons. Number one, his last album, Machiavelli, a lot of people think there are a lot of symbols and relations to Machiavelli and Machiavelli allegedly faked his own death, which isn't

even really true. Number two, one of his last videos was I Am Mad at You, which literally shows him going to heaven and after being killed in a drive-by. So there's this like, well, was he just telling us? And number three, like, we basically have 90 years to live if we're lucky. and there's a lot of downtime between birth and death and I think people need

to be entertained by something you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it just is. I don't know. You know what kind of bummed me out because I loved hit him up so much and I would sing

and I kind of felt like Biggie was hurt by it. Like obviously he was hurt by it but like my takeaway was Biggie wanted to squash the beef. 100%. Biggie first tried visiting him in the hospital,

couldn't get in. They just wouldn't let him. Well, that was because Chewbach was in bad condition so they were let him in. Not in Vegas. I'm talking about New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then he tries visiting him in Clinton, which is not fun to get to.

And Tupac's manager, Wattani, he went through Wittani. And Wattani says to Tupac, yo, Biggie wants to come see you. I think you should let him do it. And Tupac's like, F that guy, no way. And in prison, he was talking Biggie, not stop. Like the different inmates I interviewed from Clinton are like, oh, that guy was hyper-obsessed with getting revenge against Biggie, and he just convinced himself. And I, there's a 0% chance to get anything to do with Quad Studios.

He's 0% chance. It's ridiculous. Quite soon as is when he got shot. Yeah. And then he even thought that who shot you was that, but he came out before. Correct. So he was just super paranoid? People would say stuff from like, you would say, but that came out before.

Yeah, well, he should know. He shouldn't have released it. Like he recorded it before, I think maybe released it after. He's like, you should know. Or like, it'd be like, it's just, Biggie, it doesn't make sense. And he'd be like, yeah, but if someone was coming to L.A. to do harm to Biggie, I would know about it. And I'm sure he knew about it.

So even if it was like justified, he would, like, build up this thing, why, it wasn't. See, I thought the thing you were going to say about hit him up. Yeah, yeah. One of my favorite discoveries, it's a sample of a Dennis Edwards song. Yeah. And it was written by a woman named Frannie Gold. And Franie Gold is a Jewish woman from Chicago, who is this a songwriter, and she writes a song for Dennis Edwards. And she gets approached one day by her music company. And they're like, so the artist Tupac Shakur wants to sample your song. And she says, oh, that's great. Tupac Chouroor is a famous rapper, right? She's no one knows nothing. And they're like, yeah, you may want to read the lyrics first. So she's giving them the

the lyrics to hit him up. And she's like, I don't think I can have this. And someone says, do you know who Shug Knight is? And she's like, I don't know that name. They're like, so he's ahead of death row records. If you don't want someone showing up at your house, you may just want to release the music. And she does. And she's like a delight. She actually likes the song now. Oh my gosh. But yeah. Yeah, yeah. I saw your face light up. That is a tremendous story. And I hear it from time to time. I'm like, oh, that's hit him up. But it's a completely different song. Again, the research is amazing. And I think it's going to be a smashing success. I'm wondering if this has now inspired you to leave sports writing.

Are you now going to do other non-sports things? Are you going to conquer those worlds as well as well? My son Emmett was pushing for a Kanye book. I got to say there's something Wright Thompson said that I agree with. He's like writing about crazy people isn't that fun because like sometimes people are just insane and getting into the insanity sometimes it's like walking in the woods without an exit. And I don't know if a Kanye book is it too soon. It could be too soon also. But the thing is, athletes have a very finite career, right? You could theoretically be famous for the next 30 years. So I don't know.

You have your next one. I'm doing a book nobody's going to buy. No, for real. I love the confidence. I always hear, I'm very confident. No one will buy this book. I'm doing a memoir about my early journalism career in Nashville because I was just a chronic script.

This is something I always wanted to do. This is right at my alley. There you go. Yes. I'll probably send you one free to get on your show. It's going to count. I've told great stories about this, about like having to face the,

the quarterback and their fans, oh yeah, yeah, this is great. Yeah, but nobody's going to care. And so why do it if you think no one's going to care? Because it's like a bucket list thing for me. Okay. I just always wanted to write it. And also you never know. Maybe it catches a buzz.

Did you feel at some point you wanted to do something personal? Definitely. Okay. Yeah. Is it tiring writing about other people all the time? It's tiring because it's a physically and mentally tiring endeavor. Okay. And you probably feel this way too.

I always think this a lot. Like, doing stuff you love. Like, I thought this during the Laker book a lot, the Shaq Kobe book. Like Kobe Bryant, say what you want about him. When no one was around, he was shooting jumpers nonstop. He was doing push-ups. He was running.

And that's not fun. But that's how you wind up having the joy of playing Portland in the playoffs, right? Writing a book is not actually fun. Some of it's fun, but it's gruelingly hard, but it's rewarding. So it's like, it's not like, I'm being serious. People think like, oh, it's a best job.

It's a great job. But it's painful at the same time. But I love, I kind of love the pain, you know? Like I still kind of love the pain. Even the rejection and the digging, the calling,

all that stuff. So like, it beats me down. It truly beats me down. And it flares up all kinds of insecurities and whatever. But I also really love it. So I just keep doing it.

Did you say you had another one after the Nashville? All right. So I signed a three book deal. Okay. And I'm, it's a put, thank you.

It's supposed to be, but I don't know if I'm going to do this. The third in my Laker trilogy, which is the second one ended with Kobe and Shaq breaking up, the Kobe run without Shaq. Yeah. I don't know if enough people will care, so I might switch topics. Okay. So it's TBD right now. You probably need a break, right?

Like, you need to detox. Well, I've been working on the memoir, which is fun. Okay. That's just fun. You're doing this. Like, when did you finish this? Finish, like, going through edits and all that stuff. Yeah, like you're done.

Five months ago. Okay. You don't take like a mental. break. I just don't, I can't. You don't take, like even a month, two months? You don't go on vacation? I mean, I have gone on vacation. You're like, you don't, like, just shut off. Your poor wife, she's giving out kidneys for God's time.

Yeah, I know. Good call. She'll like that you said that. Oh my God. My wife is a kidney donor. Could you tell us the story? It's an unbelievable story. It's better than Brendan's got a baby story. My wife, Catherine, social worker, great, great, great person. Seems like a true mensch. Oh, she's the best. Like salt of the earth.

She's the best. She, um, she was in a Starbucks. six years ago. And she saw a flyer that a woman put up named Monica for her husband, Eli, who's looking, needs a kidney transplant. And my wife came home and she's like, how weird would it be if I donated my kidney to a stranger? And I swear to God, I thought, like, if anyone would do it, it's you. Like, she's just that kind of person, you know? And also, I think, like, why is your cousin's life any more valuable than the stranger's life? Like, we agree on that. You know what I mean? Like, a life is a life. So she applied, she put in her information, they reached out to her, and she turned out to be a match. And I kid you not,

six years later, I would say, we didn't know them. Monica and Eli, Valdez, who lived near us, have become maybe our closest friends in California. We do Christmas Eve at their house every year. Wow. They come now, our house for all the Jewish holidays, all the Jewish holidays. We always say he has a Jewish kidney, so he's official. Yeah, yeah. And it's awesome. I just got shows telling that story. It's the best. There she is. Yeah, yeah. Wow, wow, look at the work. here. Shout out. Yeah, yeah. She'll be someone conflicted that you showed that picture. I'm sorry. No, it's all good. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm blown away by that story because people talk about shirt off of your back. Kidney out of your body is next level. For someone you don't know.

She's just, I'm being serious. Like, she's just the best. She's just a great person. And why? Why? Why did she feel compelled? I think she sees people need and wants to help them. She's a lifetime. She, when I met her, when I met her, she was, she ran a youth homeless shelter at Covenant house here in New York City. And she was just like, she just lived for these kids. Like she just wanted these kids to be helped and to have advantages in life and to live happy lives.

Like that's who she's been from the day I knew her. Social worker. You don't get glory from being a social worker. No. I mean, but that's next level. Very much so. Selflessness.

I mean, it's just on, I mean, blows me away when I hear this. You need a kidney. Give me a call. Okay. You got one too? Or because she can't give? I have colitis.

I actually tried, but you can't. Okay, okay. How are you doing with that? It's fine. It sucks. Okay. I'm sorry. It's okay.

It's not the worst thing in the word. Can I ask, do you miss the day-to-day beat? Like, do you miss the grind of that? Or, you know, like, Newspapers, Sports Illustrated. Do you miss that? Do you like that job more than this? Or because, you know, that job doesn't really exist as much anymore? You know, there's a Sports Illustrated stadium.

I was at it last night. Did you know this? Yeah. Where the Red Bulls play. Yeah. They changed the name. I know. And I feel like it goes against, like, everything Sports Illustrated was.

Like, it's now naming rights. What is this? I want to say to stop. Mr. S.I in my mind. I love S.I. I wasn't even there that long. It was there six years. I know, but I just kind of associate you. And Steve Conella, who's the editor of S.I, is one of the best journalists and people I know. So he's great. But media is media now. Yeah. And like, print is, you know, and the one thing about S.I, I think everyone would agree with. It never adapted to the digital age well. That started when I was there. It just never made the

adjustment that it should have, could have, but didn't. And it's definitely struggled and now here he sit. And do I miss it? What I'm I miss is, um, I'm very social. And book writing, especially when you're in the writing, is the least social endeavor ever. And you're basically by yourself in your own head, in a coffee shop, hoping the barista says hi to you. You know, I liked going, all right, I'm going to be with the Mets today and I'll see all the writers and we'll go out to dinner and then I'll go to Kansas City. I'll see the writers there. I miss that sense of community. You know, I have it with other authors, but it's not the same. Yeah, I'm not loving all this Mariners talk on your feed.

We're Blue Jays guys around here, okay? My neighbor growing up was, I respect that. My neighbor growing up, well, one of my good friends is Sean Green, the former. Oh, yes. Sean's, comes to my class. Didn't play on Yom Kippur. Correct. Yes.

And then my neighbor growing up was former Seattle lefty Dave Fleming, who won 17 games in a season for the Mariners back in the day. Okay. So, you know, what can tell you? No, no. And Expo's fan at heart, but. Who's your favorite Expo? My favorite, this is going to, if you know this guy, I would be impressed, Lenny Webster.

I remember Lenny Webster? You remember Lenny Webster? course. Jeff Fasaro's personal catcher. He would only play every five days. I did a story on Jeff Ficero once. Yeah, that's funny. I was an Ellis Valentine guy. Okay. Oh, that's, yeah. Oh, so you have to number 17. It's a greatest name of all time. The Expos or Ellis Valentine? Oh, yeah. There were a lot of great. Al Oliver, Warren Cromarty. Yeah. Ellis Valentine is great. There was one expose book written by Jonah Carey. Oh, yeah. Yeah. How was the book? It was actually pretty good. Yeah. And there's a documentary coming out. I saw that. Yeah. I saw it. Oh, no, no, no.

it's good, but I think people are going to be disappointed. It's very French. It's made by Netflix Canada. So for me, like, I understand French, so I was ignoring, but it's just very Quebec. And so I don't know if it's going to take off in America, if you get what I'm saying. The trailer is very English, but then the actual doc is very French. It's more of a French doc. Is there an Ellis Valentine's siding in the movie? No, because it's more about the The end. The Loria, Samson, like what happened to the team type of stuff. You might say no do you not so funny story i saw geoffrey loria on opening day 2000 and uh the word at the time was new york art dealer is going to save our team because the team was struggling the strike they had to

sell all the place and this guy's going to come and he makes a big trade he signs graham lloyd to a big deal he acquires hadekhi arabu remember all that stuff and and we're like holy crap some guy is actually acquiring players from new york and not selling them off i went up to him and i hugged him and i said thank you for saving our team come to find out they wanted to move the team they wanted to go to Virginia they have the deal with the Marlins I got into a pretty like heated

debate with David Sampson on the Lebitard show in 2020 in the pandemic and it was like he did I've actually grown to really like David you know he does media too now he's actually going through a tough time with his daughter unfortunately but I enjoy his insights and I never thought

to him like I despise these guys so he was not liked in baseball David Samson. He was despised in Montreal. Like he was despised because he had no business being there.

He would be the first one to tell you. Like he, he had no business. It was his stepfather who ran the team who bought the- Do you think,

do you think a majorly baseball team could do well in Montreal now if it's a good stadium. Absolutely. I do too. Absolutely. You've been to that stadium.

It was in the middle of nowhere. There's only three nice months out of the year in Montreal in the summer. No one wants to sit in an enclosed dome in the middle of nowhere. They want to be downtown Montreal

and they had that a lot of land. Like they had it right next to the bell center, downtown, people want to go there and they want to go out. The answer to who killed the expos, sorry for going on this tangent,

like the local business community, no one stepped up to save the team. Like they all wanted to point fingers after the fact, but the truth is none of the rich people in Montreal wanted to buy the team. They had their chance. Who's the greatest expo of all time?

Carter? Tim Rains? It's hard not to say Vladdy, in my opinion. Interesting. And that's why I like the Blue Jays because of his son, because I feel like this alone connection.

He's amazing. but it has to be Vladi, Dawson, Reins, or Carter. Pedro is up there, but it was so short. So position players, I would say those four, Pedro would be the... Rusty Stobb is a little before your time, but it was... The Grand Orange, the Mets, got traded to the Mets and then came back. I think of him as a MET. Yeah.

Astros first, got picked up in the... This is my world. Got picked up in the expansion draft. Yeah. Everyone falls in love with the orange hair, Grand Orange, and then he becomes a legend, then he gets traded to the Mets and comes back. What about Mack Jones? The mayor of Jonesville, do you remember that? They played in a ballpark from 69 to 77 after the Olympics called Jerry Park, and it was just a municipal park. Seriously? There was a pool in the outfield. They didn't have

enough seats. They were still putting in seats on opening day. And there was a right fielder named Mac Jones, and so the whole right field park in back of the wall was called Jonesville, and he was the mayor of Jonesville. Because it was like in a little, you know, municipal park. Then the Olympics come in 76, which my uncle competed in weirdly enough in Montreal, in judo. Oh, did he win? He did not win.

He lost his one and only match. The last Jewish Olympian to represent Lebanon ever. Anyway, and then they move into that crappy stadium after the Olympics, a stadium that was not built for baseball. It was like a track around it and all this stuff. Do you think because he was your uncle? Why are you interviewing me now? This is an important question. Okay. And you're Jewish. Yeah, yeah. Do you think you could train for the Olympics, represent Lebanon? No. First of all, I don't think I could enter Lebanon right now. Second, second, different people from different countries. If you show your, you know, Israeli baseball team was all American players. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

No one, yeah. I don't know. And I didn't. But I've always thought that like, It's in my DNA. That's why I got it to combat sports because my uncle was a judica. That's very cool. Can I ask, before we let you go, this has been a great time. By the way, do you know Diamond Dallas Page?

Yeah. The legend. Of course. He's standing by. He's going to be here right after you. How about going from Jeff Perlman to DDP? Man, the master of the diamond cutter? I feel like on the opening act, though.

I'm like, you should write a wrestling book? You know what I've thought about that? You have? I was toying with the idea of an 80s wrestling book. What? I don't know that's been, I don't know that's been, I put on social media. Should I go an 80s wrestling book?

Does it sell? Well, what, what 80? Like, what are we talking about? Talk about, like, Hogan's the obvious one. I'm talking about, like, you know, junkyard dog and Snooka and all these guys and just the kind of wild weirdness, but I don't know if it sells.

It absolutely does it? Yes, absolutely. It just, I think we have to refine, because books have been the big broad, it just can't know. So I don't know. People have written the, I know.

There's a, there's a book that came out a couple years gone, Vince, that was pretty good. There's been wrestling books, but I feel like you could write a tremendous wrestling book. It's a fascinating world. Lee Montville said something, great writer. Yes. I quote him a lot.

He wrote a Babe Ruth book. And I think I had him on my podcast and I said, there have been a million Babe Ruth books. Why would you write it? And he goes, there's never been my Babe Ruth book. So maybe there's never been my wrestling book.

Yes. Maybe it's the junkyard dog story. Everyone's been clamoring for that for years. I have been. I think his name was Sylvester Ritter. Do you know how he... Deceased? Yeah, car accident.

And his prime, too. Prime of life for wrestling. prime of wrestling he was your favorite 80s wrestler that man right there do you know him wait is that um wait what's his name brett the hitman oh yeah brett the hitman heart that's my guy i was a junker dog yeah i also liked uh obviously snooka i mean he's had some course not the greatest guy in the world i guess yeah yeah yeah i loved uh when mr t entered the ring that era was great it's great 1984 the rock and wrestling maybe that's the angle i mean i would love to write a mr t book but nobody would buy it.

You say that. Nobody's buying them, Mr. Teabuck. What about Kaufman and Lawler? That era was great. I wasn't really into it. Yeah, I know. That's a fascinating story. I mean, there was the movie, Man on the Moon.

I mean, I would love to write a book. The episode of my YouTube show that got the most fused, by far, was the 84 San Diego Padres? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. By far. Yeah, yeah. If I thought an 84 San Diego Padres book could sell,

that's the one. Yeah, that was a great one. In a second. What do it would take every marketing skill I have to make that book sell? By the way, why are you off? Twitter. Because I hated it. Yeah. It just made me miserable. But like in times like this, it would be good to promote, no? TikTok I've been blowing up. Yeah, you have. So I kind of

replaced. You acknowledge. Are you doing that on your own or are you sending the videos to someone else? Oh, it's just me. It's all you. It's just me talking. Incredible. My son is like, your kids must love it. You know why I got on TikTok. No. Quick story. Okay. There's a writer. A year and a half ago, I went on Twitter and I gave advice to some, a bunch of writers had just been laid off. And I gave some advice about like social media. If I were a writer and I was looking for a job, blah, blah, blah. So I don't even know what I said. This guy who's the editor of the defector.

Yeah. And he wrote a column bashing me, right? Basically like the basic premise is don't listen to this old man giving advice about social media, right? And it kind of stung, right? I'm not mad at it anymore, I just think it's a funny story, but I was definitely mad at the time. And I said to my son, I'm going on TikTok.

I'm going to try TikTok, and see what I can do on TikTok. Because he even, he mentioned, certainly don't take this guy's advice on TikTok, something like that. He's like, I'm going on TikTok. My son says, my son Emmett, no filters and no politics. I was like, no filters is fine. No filters and not much politics. And TikTok has changed my life.

Wow. Changed my life. It got me the YouTube show. It's got me meetings with different people about adaptations of different books I've written. Just opportunity after opportunity after opportunity. And it's just really a great storytelling media. Even for someone who's 53 years old,

it's just a great storytelling media. I love it. Yeah, so they're in. TikTok. So to hell with Twitter. Yeah. Amen. If you can ask Tupac one question. If he's sitting in front of you, what's the one thing that you would love to ask him? I mean, there are some mysteries that I don't know. I would love to love to know. I'll tell you what I love. This is weird. He really disliked. He was very dissatisfied with his first two albums. And I would love to know, I would love to sit and musically ask him,

like, if you could do it all again and piece it all together again, what would your output be? But I guess I'd also ask him honestly about his regret with Shugnight. Is it a regret? Was it the right move? Was it the wrong move?

How do you feel about that? What happened? Blah, blah, blah. It's a million end of life questions that kind of plagued me. You can't be in someone's mind. That's the biggest philobography. No matter what he was.

The moment he was shot, he might have been thinking about the Simpsons. You know what I have no idea. I just don't know. Yeah, a million questions. Man, what an honor this was. Come on. I enjoyed this so much.

It's called Only God Can Judge Me. There it is. The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. I've got the book right here. I highly recommend it. You can pre-order it right now. It's out October 21st. It's your 11th book.

Will be your eighth New York Time bestseller? I mean, I hope so. But you've had seven, yeah? This will be eight. I hope. Is it true? Appearing on the show, I get a free Stevie Johnson Bill's Bobbohead. No, but actually, Stevie just sent this to me.

How about that? What? Yes. He saw me repping the bills. That's my favorite team. He's like, I want you to have something. And I was like, holy, this might be the best one I've ever gotten. Look at it.

That's really good. The famous, why so serious moment? I have a Chris Mullin, St. John's one that I stole from gym room set years ago. That's not bad. But the head falls off. It's a problem. Yeah, they do get beat up. This one's another fun one.

Oh, butter beans. Where's butter bean these days? He's actually doing great. He lost a ton of weight. Actually, this is an incredible segue. DDP got him back. He couldn't walk. And then DDP has a Diamond Dallas page.

He has a yoga business. And he lived with him. And he got him back. to walking. So it all tied together right here. As long as he doesn't make a comeback. He's talking about that. He wanted to fight Jake Paul. Yeah, that's the thing. Jeff, you're the man. Thank you so much. Congratulations.

Go check out the book. Go check out the book. Go check out the YouTube channel. Press Box Chronicles. Go check out the podcast. Two writers singing yang. I've been on it. And go check out the TikTok as well. Or just send me money. Or just, yeah. And then of course, buy the book. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, you're the man. Thank you so much. Jeff Perlman.

Go check out the book. back in a moment with the great Diamond Dallas page. Okay, that was Darby Allen on Monday. What a great week for in-studio guests. Jeff Perlman was phenomenal again. Here's the book. Hope you enjoyed that half as much as I did. As I said to him when we say goodbye, I don't often get to have, you know, media types that I really look up to on the show. So I really enjoyed asking questions about the process, about the research, about the journalism, all that stuff and more. So thank you for allowing me to, as they say, nerd out. And now we shall do even more of that because we have an absolute legend in our presence, a Hall of Famer, WCW legend, WCW legend, and a man who has had a second and third act unlike anyone in the wrestling business.

He has changed people's lives. They say he is one of the most selfless people on the planet because all he has done since leaving the wrestling business is change people. people's lives with his DDP yoga, with all his businesses, and he now has a new show out on 2B. It's called Change or Die in which he is doing his damnedest to change the lives of the likes of Butterbean Buff Bagwell and people that you've never heard of. He is a tour to force. He is one of a kind. He is inimitable. He is often imitated, but never ever duplicated. He is the one and only the master of the diamond cutter is he there yes diamond Dallas page wow my man where are we going this way let's go let's hug it out oh this is nice how are you my friend unstopping oh my gosh

what a response thank you so much for coming in this is a huge honor this is surreal for me to see you in the flesh like this you know mainly just doing the zooms everywhere yes yes when i get here you know get to come to manhattan I'm going to do the rounds, and for sure, you're the first person I thought about you. I appreciate that so much. Let me put the microphone a little bit closer to. Yeah, there we go.

You have such a great voice. How are you? I'm great. I came off the heart. Yes, a bit of a scare. I had APF. No, it really wasn't because I had it before. And for me, you know, because anytime you go under, you know,

there's a chance you're not coming out. So I literally make my piece of God every time. Hey, if you want me to come back, I'm here. But if not, man, what a great run. know, what a full life I've lived, mainly because of my wife, I want to make sure I come back. Yes. What was it?

What was the issue? It was, well, your heart, if you're training too hard and you're over 50, and this was the whole message of the video that I made originally was if you're training really hard and you're over 50 and you're not using a heart monitor, you're really kind of stupid. Because I have friends of mine who have had strokes and then all of a sudden left side of their body, they never get back 100%. Maybe they get back 60% or 70%, but they don't get back 100. And for me, you know, when your heart is racing, for me, it was racing between 140 and

150. And I never even noticed it until I did this hammock where I hung on myself upside down, like Spider-Man, getting the blood to come to your head. And when I spun up, I was like, whoa. And I had a really hard workout that day, you know, and I pushed myself and I wasn't wearing my heart monitor. You'll never see me training with that one again because this is the first time this had ever happened to me. It stayed between 140 and 150. And I called my doc, who's a great guy back in Atlanta.

I'm in Panama City Beach at Pages Retreat at the time, you know. And I call him up and I'm like, Doc, thanks for answers. It's like 11.30 at night, right? I said, here's the situation. He said, go to the hospital. Go there. They'll bring your heart rate down, and then we'll see. And I didn't have A-PIP right away.

My wife knows whatever the name of it was, but your heart rate's staying in that, you know, accelerated spot. And then the next morning, I had A-FIP, which means your heart rate is doing this. And they can control it with meds, which I don't want to be on. when in control with meds it's like you take it for rest of your life like no no go in and what they did

is they go up through your groin with the cameras and the electrodes up into your heart and then they zap you now when you first saw me come out when I was doing it they did the paddles

on the front and back and my heart rate came right back now you don't really need to have it done then? But if you're almost 70, which I am, and you train the way I train, you probably should go, you know, get the cardio fibulation. It was called, now it skips my mind. What's going to? Cardio oblation. That's what it is. And they used to do it where they scorched you. Now it's more electrodes. It's safer. And it went great. So I had to

wait for two weeks, which is always the hardest thing, when you can't do anything for two weeks. And so now in my fourth week, I'm back, and I'm back on track, so I feel great. Okay, and you look great. Thank God. Thank God. And you've got this new show out, change or die on 2B. I watched it. You watched the whole thing? I did, yes. Wow. I saw this man right here front and center. He sent this to me, which was great. There's the, there's the promo right there. And it's a nice mix of famous people like Butterbean and Marcus Buff Bagwell and then just regular Joe Schmo's if you will where does the idea come from because to me it was like this is this is DDP you love to help people and the way you care like it doesn't

it never feels like you are acting it never feels like you're doing it in front of the cameras just because it always it always feels genuine and authentic how did the whole thing come about that's what we do every day and I'm working with Alex or Jake or Marcus or Scotty Riggs. There's those guys in my life, you know? Like, it was Rick Bassman who was like, you've got to help Butterbeam for years. And I don't got to help anybody. They need to come to me because I don't want to talk you in it.

In the beginning, it was hard for me to talk people in to doing my program. Oh, then Chris Jericho's back was completely blown out. They said his career was over. he i sent him the video of the disabled veteran he called me back five minutes later he said you tell me what to do and i'll do it i'm like seriously he's like yeah okay here's where you start here's where you go five weeks later he called me back he said i'm 85% free of pain back pain which gets everybody at some point especially in our game yeah and this is right this is the time he's 41 years old what is he now like 53 or something yeah friggin so

he says to me he says i'm addicted to do this is is everyone feel like that i said people that get rid of pain now a lot of people will stop pain's all gone you know then all of a sudden they reach for a pencil and the pains oh my god when you do what we did for a living fall down you know hard with some guy crashing down on top of you the first time macho man landed on me i was just laying there with my eyes closed. And then I felt like the explosion out the left side of my rib cage. I thought my guts were all over the place. I was like, oh, my God. But he was 44 that. You were his crash pad. And if you were in an angle with him, you were lucky enough to be there, you wanted it. You know what I'm saying? But in our business, falling down, it's like,

it's part of what we do and then figure out how to get back up again. So all of those people I've been working a little time. The beautiful thing about Chris, Chris told everybody. He told everybody from Dustin Rose to AJ Stiles to Matt Cardona. I mean, everybody. And that doesn't happen when you're a professional athlete. When you're a professional athlete the way Chris is in, Chris is an All-Star everywhere. Music, podcast, the stuff he does with the dark side of wrestling.

I mean, there's nothing that he's not in. He is a workaholic, but he still makes time for his family and his kids. No, because at one point, he wouldn't let me do anything for him. I said, I'm getting you tickets for your whole family to come, first class, come to Mexico, and let me at least thank you for giving me legitimacy, the disabled veteran, then Chris Jericho. And then when Jake and Scott, you really can't, you know, you can't say what I'm doing isn't working. Plus, it's 20 years later. I'm still doing it, and I can still do most of the stuff that I could do 10 years of.

ago. So for me, you know, helping all those guys, that's a part of it. Helping regular people is much bigger part of it. So how does that happen? How do you go from being the guy who helps his famous friends to now helping regular people? Well, it's always been like that. You know, I did it to help me. And you have to understand something. I'm the guy who introduced you to this. Kimberly. Kimberly, who? Your wife, your ex-wife. My first wife, my first ex-wife. But she's amazing. She's the CEO of her company now. She's the CEO.

Yes, she is. Yes, she is. That's unbelievable. You still have a great relationship. We've always had a great relationship, not a good, a great relationship. Anyone that was going to be in my life had to know. I mean, I love her husband, man. Aaron, good, good buddy of mine, really close.

I consider them both family. Like, we were together for 13 years. And then, you know, a little ups and downs when you're first splitting apart. But she was growing one way. I was growing another way. But she's the one. Like, I didn't start wrestling.

I was 35, as most people know. You know, it took really, if you count my three years of managing, it took eight years to become an overnight success. Yeah. But when the end of 96 rolled around and I had that idea for, oh, wait a minute, no one's turned down. the NWO and these two guys are like I'm not here without them and vice versa because I created

Scott Hall's whole his whole thing that would eventually come the diamond stud which would be roll right into Razor Ramon and Kevin man they when we were tag teaming together at I'm talking about I'm a year not even a year wrestling happy year and me and keb are tagging together and he's got a couple years in but he's not working that much and the money kept going to down and down and down, and Kev, during his Hall of Fame speech, he said, you know, I probably owe my beach house to Dallas because he was there. The guy said, Kev, don't let them beat you down, bro. You're going to be a huge star.

You'll be one of the biggest stars in the business. And I always saw that, really, for both of those guys. So when I would help them, then they came back. Now they're biggest stars on the planet. and I came up with that idea and I told Kev first, you know, you guys ask me, you know, want me to do something for you, you don't want me involved in your stuff, if it was real life and I had an attitude because I wasn't picked number three or four or five, not pick me, want to pick me number eight?

Like, if I just had an attitude of, how about no? And I walked away, you'd look at Scott, look at you, you'd go, Dally, he'll get over. over it. So that was the real life thing that happened. And then he said, go tell Bischoff. I said, I didn't tell Bischoff anything. I said, I go tell Scott. And he's like, bro, do you think he don't remember? He couldn't get WWF or W, because they were WWF back then or WCW to call him back. He called me. I was super tight with Dusty, and I said, because he had already been there twice, and Dusty said, you know, we're going to give him some more time off because he's, they've already seen him. I said, what if I could change his look? Because what do you

mean? I said, what if you don't recognize him? And Dusty would let's like laugh at me and go, all right if you really think so and then when he saw scott hall no one recognized him when he came in as a diamond stud and didn't say a word and he was 2.95 and just shredded and he had that ridiculously handsome face and the walrus mustache was gone the black hair was in when i put that all out there to scott he was like oh man i don't know i go pro no one's got black hair in the business except for honky talk think about it wow Today, how many guys got long black hair? They're all the top guys, basically, not all of them, but a lot of them do. But no one back then was doing that.

So he came up, he drove up from Orlando, and I saw his hair. I was like, dude, that ain't going to work. We got to get that, like, Elvis, blue, black. And he had that mustache gone, and Scott had a five o'clock shadow at two. You know, probably if not the most handsome, one of the most handsome men ever involved in our business. And we went there and I put him a bunch of my clothes that he would never wear with Cavalachie pants, a big long, long rider, it was a lamb, black lamb skin coat I had that came down below his knees. He had those and flip flops and hadn't come up with a toothpick yet.

But at that point, man, when he walked into it, he was something completely different. So he's like, his wife was pregnant. You don't think he wants to pay you back. Right. I said, he's taking a diamond cutter. I got to go ask him. I got to him. Scott's like, I love it.

Go tell Bishop. I go, yeah, I want to tell one of my, who's become one of my closest friends at that time. But Bish was not the, he was not the, what is it called, nepotism. It was not, you know, we were so tight. I had to, he said, when he had inducted me at a whole baby, he said, I had to work twice as hard. I had to work five times as hard just to get that attention, to get, give me the little break here, just a little one. This was a huge one. And it was about to change my life.

And I said, we'll like Kev tell him. What was really cool about WCW back then, We'd go from 8 to 11 or 11.05 or 15, whatever the after was. But at that moment, the next show to come on was the rerun. So we all go back to the bar, you know, catching that midnight snack and having a couple. And we talked about the business and that match. And all, man, that really worked. Oh, that didn't work that good.

We'll do that again. But it was a great way to bond with everybody, too. And Kurt Henning, when I went into the AWA as a manager, Kurt Henning said to me, you will make more relationships out at this bar than you ever will in any match, in any locker room, on the road and at the bar. And that's the way it is. Not anymore, but that's the way it was back in our day. It's a different day now.

A lot of straight-edge guys, which is the only reason why you see them doing all that craziness that they can do. These ridiculous superhuman moves that they can do and take the impact. Like you can't fake gravity. These guys are really beating up their bodies. And there's so many of them. Can't name one.

You name like 15 of them with what they were able to do. But so many of them are straight edge. And if they're not completely straight edge, they're only drinking once in a while. It wasn't like back in our day where you were judged by your manhood on how much you could drink back that. So the bottom line is,

Those guys, Kevin put it out there, and it took 10 weeks. If Scott, by the way, says no to that, do you think you never become who you became? Never. Wow. No, because that lit, like, that lit a buyer. And he wanted to do it. He goes, I love, Keb wanted to do it, too. I'm like, we're lucky if we even get Bish off.

Yeah, yeah. You know, because Bish was very protected. That was his thing. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like when WCW came into WWE and let's squash them. Yeah, yeah. No, let's build them so strong that they look unbeatable. And for a long time, they were unbeatable, man.

I mean, and if you go back and really look, I am the first one to touch them. Because everything was, they were just positioned. Right. But they wanted to do it. They've been savage. you know that was that that that I never saw coming he saw what was happening he wanted to pull me up wow and that was very very very powerful and it changed my life forever but without scott and kev doing it much doesn't maybe he says it later but not like that not with him being a part of the

NWO and really, you know, Hogan, Motch, you know, like, Mott's friggin had to create his own thing. Yeah. And it was, we've got the feud of the year that year and Pro Wrestling Illustrated. And number two, or tied, I'll say, was Brett Hart and Stone Cold Steve Austin. That's crazy, man. And all of that is why I've been able to take DDP yoga. and turn it into becoming a household name.

And change or die is going to even take that to a different level. The crazy part about change or die is all it is is what we do, my business partner, Steve You, my entire crew. Like you get to see them. You get to see it's no built by what you're doing, DDP. Like, no, it isn't just me. I have a whole team that are unbelievable. Well, Steve Yu, who's my business partner, who is the director of The Resurrection of Jake the Snake.

And I just saw it to me what I would know there yesterday that they have, you know, it's on Amazon Prime, but they have it too. So, you know, they'll put like shows that are like that. Yeah, yeah. So they've got that on there as well. So people who haven't seen, after they've seen Change or Die, if they haven't seen Resurrection, they're going right to resurrection. But it grabs you. and it was, we stopped basically our whole business. We kept going, but everything went to that,

and it all happened the same place that it happened for Jake. I reached out to friends of mine that are real performers in our world and as far as DDP yoga. And I said, hey, guys, I'm looking for a name for my house. and my friend Christina Ann, she wrote me 20 names, and on the bottom was the accountability crib. I said, that's this. So it does live up to its name or once again.

And putting this crew together, Marcus Bagwell, it's hard for me to call him Buff because Buff is much better today, but Buff was a real asshole for a lot of times. Like back in the 90s? freaking you know and he's an addict yeah yeah you know look at him today I can't say I proud of him enough yeah yeah yeah because every time I see him doing something now I'm like wow dude that's so good oh man the first stop was because Marcus is very when you're an addict you are all about lying cheating stealing whatever it takes

to get that high I learned that from Jake being with Jake on and off for so many years and then when it came right down to helping Jake get there. So Marcus, I mean, he could be such an asshole at times. I wouldn't call him Buff anymore. He just became Mark or Marcus and that's all I would call him. And for years, years he would be come in. I know you help Jake out. Will you please help me now? I moved Jake into my regular house. And there was no woman in my life at the time, not at the time. Scott, too, came in. They both lived with me.

I lived with a man in 30 years by that time. Stop living with guys. I was like 23 years old, you know? But it was really important to have them there and every day. Because just like resurrection, same thing as when it comes to change or die. these guys over here we could have named that you know resurrection to take the stake we could have called it change or die

because thank God we got 10 years out of Scott but it was COVID and not COVID that is you know the thing whatever the hell that shit is they made up it was the seclusion and the fear that went with it and to lose Scott we wouldn't have lost Scott if it wasn't for COVID

I really believe that but it could have been called change or die because both of those guys do you remember and it was really towards the later 80s but all through the 90s on the internet it was called the Deadpool

oh yeah of course right yeah we actually just had Raven on last week talking about that how he would be offended if he wasn't high like it was like a badge of honor right that's crazy stuff Steve, but Jake and Scott Rowe is one. They were, oh, because they were so far past.

Like, Rave, yeah, he hit some really hard, frigging times. Have you seen him recently? Yes, yes, I have. I love this show. Have you seen the, the new documentary? Yes. Yes, we saw it, and he told me he's battling early onset Parkinson's, which is unfortunate. But he seems to be in a great place.

Yeah, he really is. He seems to be at peace. He's, he, we both, we both have changed so much. From when you're at, especially at the bottom, because me and Scotty were on the bottom together, I got him the job. It's not me. We were in 1994, we did Hulk's first tour,

and I was on that tour. I was the curtain jerker, me and Duggan. And I'm watching TV, but there's nothing, hardly in English at all, but there's MTV, but it's the European version. And I don't even really, really know hardly any of these bands. Oh, all of a sudden I see Aerosmith.

I'll see Bruce Springsteen, but I don't really know these bands. So I got home, and Kimberly was in the back seat. My buddy, Tony Polly Grosci was driving, and he's a big promoter. He knew all of them. He probably, he was the biggest promoter in New Jersey. And he said,

so who's representing that community? I went, wow. No one. He goes, who do you think could and before I say anything Kimberly goes

Scotty could I went oh wow because he needed to find something away from yeah boy you know that guy you're never going to not see him there and I called them up

I told me the idea and then he worked on it and he worked it and he worked it and there was moments where that would come out and I go, oh, yeah, click. And I just hang up on them, you know? Me and Ness used to go mute.

Like, mute. Oh, because he would talk so much. Yeah. The smartest guy in the room, he said. But when it came to this point, it was, he was going from this raven character to he came up with that name, which I thought was amazing. And then when, I would say, there's my side, there's your side, and then what really happened, Again, how I remember, this is my recollection.

And Scotty, he got to a point where I was like, wow, like, I think you've got it. So I pick up the phone, I call Paul Heyman. He may remember that different, but I called him. Wow. I called them. And I said, Paulie, I said, Scotty's got something. It's really different. I think it totally fits everything you're doing up there.

I said, I would love that. You know, I'd love you to do something with him. and uh but but no i really going to want him to come back here at some point here meaning wcW see they were creating no new talent and i hadn't been created there's no goldberg there's nobody i'm the one who could help disco do his thing so many guys raven was would be at the top of us because i love scottie and as much as we would battle banter back and forth. I love the guy.

And I think he's one of the most, what is it called? We're not here. He's, what's a call where you, people don't talk about him enough. They were how good he was. Underrated.

Underrated. Underrated. Underappreciated. All of that. Like, Scotty was so good. I mean, man, his psychology and calling a match, man, I loved, it killed me that I couldn't.

put him all over the very best of nitro but i'd also pulled benoit into that because what do you say i couldn't put him i couldn't because they put when they did the very best of nitro yeah they want to know what i thought it was oh they they would ask you oh here's what here's there i said send me your scripts i know what i'm doing and i said uh okay cool i read it like week goes by Finally, they call me, okay, did you pee? Did you get, do you get the script and everything? I said, yeah. He said, what do you think?

I said, I don't think you want me to do this. He goes, no, no, no, you're the guy. You're the face of WCW. You're the guy. I go, were you watching show back in 96 and 97, 98? Were you watching back then? Oh, yeah, I sat right next to Captain Dunn. I told him everything was happening.

I said, then you're well aware that for a long time we were fucking beating the shit out of you. You know all about that, right? Yeah, of course I do. I go, I'm not going to say shit. That's not true because, oh, I'm getting to get back on TV with, you know, the people who frigging didn't want us there to begin with. Like when I went to Stone Colds and I've been on a two dozen podcasts with him, but

when he finally did one at his ranch and the WWA built him a beautiful set and everything out there, and I flew out to see him, he asked me, he said, did you realize how much heat you guys had coming in when you came in? I was like, no, I never would have came. I never would have been there. So I didn't realize. And they were trying to bury you with the stocker gimmick. I don't look at it as me personally. Is it because you hugged Vince? I think that could be part of it. Is that true? But it's yes. You hugged Vince? That is a true, and people would, if I said that, I'm so glad you said that, because people thought it, like, oh, God, I think because he hugged Vince, he didn't start doing it.

No, he did. I would love to ask him, because I have no. You never asked him? No, I never, I've never gotten a real conversation past the beginning with Vince. I don't really know Vince, but when I got there, we were there, it took so long to get there because of traffic and everything for me and Kim. Oh, literally it took so long. Yeah, it took so long to get there.

Yeah, it was like three hours late we were, two hours or something like that. When I walk in, Vince, of course, sticks out of his head. I go, I'm not shaking your hand, bro. I've waited my whole life to meet you. I'm hugging you. This is the first interaction. First thing. Wow.

Yes. And how many hugs did he do after that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, right of it happened. After a while, I really found it was funny. Did you know what your plan was before the hug, before the first interaction, or was he pitching you in that moment? No, they told me they wanted me to stalk takes wife.

and you're married at the time yes and Vince is there Shane's there and he Kimberly's there and how'd she feel about it well if I was in WCW yeah

if they told me that bullshit angle I'd go fuck you seriously I'm gonna be stalking somebody else's wife if I would have thought that that was actually

you know I didn't realize alright because I was so there's no real life there was no reason for me think that they were going to, you know, not even give me an opportunity. Yeah, I just did take a podcast about six months, five to six months ago. And it's something, what a great, I mean, he was so amazing and we had such a great talk.

And I'd spent some time with him on his new show, LFG, because they brought me in about finishes. And then we got to the part where we're going to talk about WW, right? And I have no idea where he's going to go with it, but I'm going to just go on the ride, because he put me over so huge going into that and then he said you know I can't

I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember exactly how he said it but I've been not accused but I've had some fans who were really pissed off of me because they think I was trying to ruin your career and we've had such an amazing moment up until then and I could see Mark

Callow like just going don't they realize it's not I'm not the booker he this is not me This is not me. And I just reached across his arm, and I put my head off, I'd say, take, we're good, bro. Let me tell you what good thing.

Well, let me tell you what positive thing came out of that. And this is how I'd look at it all the way around. Would I love to have how to reel run would take later? Would I love that? What I'd love that had to reel round with people's champ versus people's champ? Absolutely. But the thing that it taught me was you can't be afraid to walk away from the table

when you have something that you know they want what I should have done when he said that I should have just done my inner voice which would have laughed out loud and said Vince

are you looking at my wife seriously and of all people I'm going to go after Taker's wife like no it was this horrible idea was it his idea wasn't

mine no i know austin told me later he goes they picture by him too really yeah he told me that that's i remember it anyway what was your ideal scenario like what were people's champ versus people's chap bro that was the money yeah the only time i'd met rock before you know i'd never met him until uh it was right about 98ish and i'd gone up because big show was up there and he had the belt. And he was actually in Toronto doing a Saturday night show. We had to pay-per-view the next night. I don't remember which pay-per-view it was, or maybe it was a night show we were on the next night. And I see, you know, I get with, bringing Paul. And we're going to go out. He's got to go out and get his bags. Rock was the last deal. And he was doing the second main event

because he's the champ, but ain't nobody following the rock back then. And he said, hey, you want to meet the Rock? I should love to. And doing a huge locker room. It's so big in there. Rock, are you still in here? Yeah, I'm in a shower. And he says, great, I got some huge Mark who's dying to meet you.

Bottom light is, when he came out, we talked, he was such a gentleman. You hadn't signed yet. I had, no, I just signed a multimillion-dollar three-year deal with WW. Okay, with WCW. Yes. Yeah. There's no WWF at that, for WWE at that time for me. And they were okay with you being back there?

That was interesting. Classy, Freddie Blassie brought my tape from the AWA, my reel. I got to meet him who I loved growing up as a kid. And I got a meeting because of my buddy Lee Marshall. And Freddie and I became friends. Freddie brought my tape in for Pat to see And Pat goes, oh, got a great look He can talk

Look at him, he's like 6'880 He must be like 100 a giant as a manager Then when Hogan and Warrior We're getting ready down in Tampa By that time I'm working Florida Championship Wrestling And the AWA still Pat is there to help them lay it out what's going to be the big spots

that they're going to have to do. And next thing you know, being Pat, we're talking. He goes, you know, Diamond, I really enjoyed your reel. He said, but again, you were way too tall

to be a manager in this business. So we had that actual time together, just talking about the business. And then that day, that they were wrestling that night, I think it, Connecticut, Air Canada. Center.

Yeah. And he was sitting behind me the whole time. Oh, wow. And I didn't know it. And when I got up to get in a bag, I'm like, Pat, he goes, Diamond. He said, I've never seen anyone do what you have done. To come from where you came from without knowing anybody, no family relations, to get to where you got to,

and then to actually really become a really good worker. He said, I'm blown away. I just want you to know that. I was like, wow, man. I was like, Bing, you know, and, you know, to me, big time moments. Of course. And I said, you know, Big Show is the champ. And I kind of got him ready for Hogan.

I got him ready for Hogan because I was down the power plan all the time because they weren't doing anything with me. So I'd work with Paul getting ready for Hogue. And I said, yeah, we rode together, we frigging, you know, we room together, everything. Because Paul got all the shit free, and I didn't get anything, you know, nothing paid for, for years. And I said, do you think I'd come by and see him? He was, sure, come on by. When I walked in that door, they rushed to me so fast up to that Sky Booth that Beth shows wife, who's told us we aren't.

and her whole family she's Canadian so she was up there okay so that's how that whole thing happened um

and uh did they try to bring you in for the original invasion did anyone even reach out to you well I think the original was when we did come in

well no because there was that first wave of guys you came later I don't know did you guys on truth I don't remember okay yeah not the best memory

yeah but it was really when I was getting back to what I said to take There's a really cool thing that I got out of that. You can't be afraid to walk away from the table when you know you have something. I knew DDP yoga was something eight years where it made nothing. All I kept doing was investing money into it. So much so to the fact that when Kimberly and I got split up, she didn't do 50-50 with me.

She took what I offered her. Now, she could have fought me for it, but I said, in this scenario, you know what I'm trying to do. And I used to say to her, how many times it's Moses have to part the Red Sea for you not to believe in me? You know, I mean, thinking about it, and most people don't know this. But I started wrestling through, I've wrestled for like seven or eight months, I think it was. Me and Kev were tag team partners. I tore my rotator cuff and Bill Watts let me go. Like there's that whole year

Like no one saw me But I never stopped working And at some point she's like You need to get a real job Like maybe go back into the bar business Because we're barely getting by And I said to her You need not let that door

Hit you on the ass on the way out If you don't believe in me And she's Okay She was 23 at the time as well, not 33, you know what I mean? And I was 13 years older than her. So she's like, wow, he really does believe in himself.

And there's no, really, there's no rhyme or reason why I did. I just saw it. I tell people all the time, the people say, I believe it when I see it. Unfortunately, those people never see shit. But the people say, I believe it because I see it. There's not one superstar from Ray Mysterio to John Cena that Cody wrote, I don't care who it is. You've seen on top?

Who didn't see it when no one else saw it? And that's the power that everyone has. And that power is what I tried to bring to change or die. It's why, I mean, the reviews, have you seen what some people are saying about it and everything? I haven't seen reviews. No, I just watch. There's just people talking about it online. Because they had, they, let me read you one.

Okay. From my mentor. This is my mentor, Scotty Sloan. And Scott, he's always been there for me to ask business questions. He used to be top guy at frigging palm olive, Colgate, whatever is called. I can't remember her name, but those big companies. And now he's a consultant. He travels all over the world.

This is what he says. This is October 4th. sitting down big cup of coffee i've downloaded to be going to watch the first episode have a bowl of fruit and off to the gym now october sixth okay i surrender i'm adopting taylor taylor's a big boy yes what a sweetheart and man you right now there's a video up on my on all my social media right now. Me, not walking around the block, walking around the house.

With him? Yes. There he is right there. We just showed him. So I said to him, what episode you're on? He says six. I said, okay. I said, keep me posted the next day.

Okay, I've finished the journey. First point, I need therapy. What a roller coaster ride, a 12 on a 10 scale. Now, you remember, this is a guy who was a mentor of mine. Right. And I really look up to. And he says, I haven't had much room in my life for heroes. But you, sir, have carved out an everlasting space.

Like... What a compliment. It's, to me, that's a compliment like in 1997. I get a call. I pick up the phone, congratulations. I go, Jake? Yeah. Congratulations.

Congratulations for what? Reinventing the DDT. That's a moment, bro. That's a moment to me like, I would never have dreamed would happen. But that, like, Diamond Cutter was the hottest move on the planet. Yeah.

And I love that the RKO took as a place as I couldn't and did it better on so many different levels with some of the height that he put into it. So I got a lot of respect. There's a guy who should be on everybody's bringing Mount Rushmore because that cat. And you've got to add the run in all the time he had and everything. Randy Orton is a hell of a hell of a hand. By the way, speaking of Jake, true or false, a scripted film on your relationship is in the works right now. Yeah, there actually is.

Are you allowed to talk about this? I could tell you my source. It's a good friend of mine named Rory. Yeah. Rory Karp, who's a brilliant, brilliant, producer, director, who's done a whole bunch of 30 for 30s, did a series on CM Punk, just an absolute genius when it comes to this.

But this is a sort of scripted thing about your relationship with Jake, correct? Well, it's really about, and we've had a couple of guys come on, and they've tried to write what it, what, but they did his version, the writing was great, I mean, really great, but it didn't capture what they wanted it to be, meaning the resurrection.

And that came out, I mean, it's been going on for years. I don't really talk about it because it's positive bullshit. It's positive, but it's bullshit. Why? Why? Well, it's just life. You know, it's like, and how hard it is to get something made, bro? No, I know. It's so, people don't realize how hard it is. The fact that Rudy ever got that made and about, I've been with Rudy.

I've had him, you know, do DDP yoga with me because he saw Arthur's video and wanted to bring in, like, I want to do what that guy's doing. Like, Rudy is an awesome cat. But the fact that he ever got that made with two plays and got. Angela Pizzo, one of the greatest writers on the planet to write it, you know, like, it was a miracle that that really happened. But again, he saw it and he believed it because he saw it. And everyone has this ability. You know, a lot of people don't believe they do. So you don't.

You know, so it's so, to me, for a lot of people, it isn't. And, well, it's always the glass is half full or half empty, right? Well, for most people, there is no glass. Like, you don't even, you don't even see the glass. And hope. We're not in the fitness business. EDP yoga is so much more than that. And that's what you see.

Did you see that in change or die? Yeah, of course. And I did, when no one will ever. called a reality show to me because it was real everything was happening i it got conflict will always become when you take five completely different people you don't have to write it in if anything it pisses me off because i'm trying to get you to do what happens in our ddp yoga community we have it's not mine i have ddp yoga of course has a site on Facebook on a presence of almost a million people and there's the members and the members

started with my buddy I always screw his name up Chris Gabriano he started the Facebook page to help each other stay DDP yoga one word to stay accountable basically accountability but you're on all over the world and there's five of you and you're helping keep each out they're accountable. Another 78,000 of them. And you would never, it's a safe zone. People come there looking for hope. And all it takes is putting the work in and keep moving forward.

Don't stop. I got to read this to you. This is off of that page. And every Friday I do, Fabulous Friday. And I go there and I go looking for what people write. Because before you know it, it's going to be skipped off because there's only so many things, right? This guy's name is Brandon.

Okay. He says one year ago, after two years of having DDPY but never using it, I decided the rubber has to meet the road. otherwise the car won't reach its intended destination this is brilliant right here the hardest workout is and always will be pressing play once you accept it's going to be difficult it's amazing how easy it becomes i have three herniated discs and multiple back surgery This is the reason I found Diamond Dallas Page and DDP Yoga. Not a wrestling fan. Wow. Wow.

I read comments here a lot of people who doubt themselves or worry about useless things and making excuses like I did two years prior. Here's some advice that may help. For those who will start Monday, they need to prepare. Preparation is a sensor. is essential, but after a certain time, all is left to do is act. Any more preparation is at best a waste of time, or at worst, a comfortable lie we're indulging in to protect ourselves from the possibility of failure.

For those who, I don't know how to do this, I'm not good at this. This is the greatest line, and I'll use this in speaking and reading just like. this for a thousand people at a corporate gig right embarrassment is the cost of entry wow when I've got all those people out there I'll go so tell me anyone out there and now hands are already going up they've already had to say did something unbelievably well the first time they ever did it they all came down I go you know why y'all came down because embarrassment is all always the cost of entry.

If you aren't willing to look like a foolish beginner, you will never become a graceful master. Wow. I hope this helps others. I know I get inspired by other posts, and maybe this helps someone too. I know you can't give someone the desire to change, but maybe this lights a spark.

Thank you, DDPY, DDP, and Paige for saving this father of two beautiful little girls' life. Wow. And extending it a few years. So that's emotional, obviously. Why does it make you so emotional? Listen to that. Because there's a guy who believed, if I get this, I know this can help me. If I get this DDP yoga, I know it could help me.

And then you go into that making excuses. But he still signs up for it. And he knows it's going to roll over. And I haven't quit yet because I haven't let it lapse. I haven't quit yet. And then one moment, he says at some point the rubber has to meet the road or else we won't get to our intended destination he got sick i mean i soon as i see that i have robert or pat find this guy's number i need to talk to him because i got to tell him

wow dude like you hit me emotionally with that like if fans really new and anyone who does my program who's been a part of the YRG all the way to DDP yoga, the DDPY, it's all the same thing. The ones who put the work in get my attention. So go back to change or die on Tubey. It costs nothing for Tubey. I was so hoping this company had taken us and pushed us out there. I was so happy when it was to be because it didn't cost anything.

Yeah. And people are sharing it and telling others, like Scott, frigging, you know, writing that to me. I mean, I've had the most beautiful things written to me, The Rock. Well, Sylvester Sloan, I'm not going to read this one because I want you to read it. Okay. This is what. I wanted to know if LeBron James has hit you up yet. I put it out there.

Has he? Not yet. Not yet? Come on, LeBron. He's got sciatica. Uh-oh. The thing went up. He's got sciatica and you put it out there and it exploded.

I think people want to see you in LeBron. I would. I had a picture of LeBron doing a diamond cutter going down to court at one point. That's right. And he's a huge wrestling fan from back in the day. So read Sylvester Stallone wrote. Congratulations to Butterbean. Stop there.

Stop there. So Butterbean, he had seen that video was going viral. but a little over a year ago. Okay. So go ahead. So, great thing. A real warrior, and I am stunned, all caps by Diamond Dallas Page and his extraordinary healing abilities.

Right beneath that is The Rock, who says, incredible work, my brother, respect to all of you, left you a voice note. Unbelievable voice note. He, you know, I think, I got to play this first part of it. Okay. This, wow, because this is, this is who, to rock really is. I won't get into what he does after that said stuff, but because he was just so gracious. I got to search it for how, okay, I think it was rock. The first part of this, oh,

all right, how do I get to? All right. They keep changing everything. And once they change it, I get completely lost. I am going to be 70. I'm not 17. You're doing just fine. And you look fantastic. I hope I look like you at 69. Okay, let's see here. The Rock. Diamond DallasPage.com. Gosh, damn it. How to, you know where it gets to... Change your dye? Do you want me to help you out? Yeah, I want to, this has got to be, uh, my, um, you know, messages people leave you. Sure, the direct messages. Right. On Instagram. Right. It's at the bottom. You see, it's like the little arrow. You want me to, you trust me?

Okay, so you're searching here. Are we on Instagram here? Yeah, we are. No? Where are we? One second. Instagram's at the top, right? Yeah, yeah.

One second. Let me just get out of here. Okay. Here we go. You know why? It's saying no network connection for some of you. Oh, because you're on airplane mode. Oh, that's why.

Put yourself on airplane mode. I could have taken it. Yeah, that's why nothing was, coming up like what is happening here okay then i thought the rock blocked you i was like oh no this is very awkward right now you can't find him he's such a classic cat he'd never do that uh plus i've always watching his stuff man i love it did you did you see the smashing machine i haven't seen it yet it's very good i heard i heard he like as he recommended yeah yeah yeah i'm just going to play this one that he found it yeah i found it okay so i'll put up to here

yeah just put it uh full full blast audio you diamond uh what's up my brother it's rock here i wanted to check in with you i got a few things for you all good um number one dude i just saw the post for all the work you're doing with butterbean i just watched two minutes of it i just wanted to pause it and just fucking hit you up man and just tell you what great work you've been doing and you and your your your colleague who run your business or who help you run your business all you guys are doing just such tremendous work

and I love all the work you've done with the boys over the years and I love the work you're doing with Butterbean Dude and also keep up the great fucking work but what if we can I love that quote from your colleague Steve

that's the life that's the world we live in but what if what if we can man I love that I'm going to leave his second message here. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. That's unbelievable. Very sincere guy, very genuine, but that's got to feel like a million freaking bucks.

It was awesome because he took what we live, and he does, of course, he lives it too. What if? But what if we can't? When I saw Butterbean walk in hunched over, like, you can't stand up straight. Yeah. He wouldn't hunched over and just play it. I mean, he tried, but it's between his hips and his back. And he had to lose the weight before we can get the hip surgery done and all that.

When he walked in, though, and I'm watching one person after another, you know, walk in, they're like really bad, like really bad. And I'm like, God, Steve, I go, wow, man, I go, how are we going to help him? And he said, but what if we can? And that's what Rock was that. That's why I played off. of course because he is the why why why why why are you so like why do you do this why do you devote so much time to other people and i don't say this you know because i know there's people out there who will say like oh diamonds you know he's dddd me i hear that i hear that because

everyone everyone thinks there's another angle everyone thinks that you know oh he's working so i don't see any of that in you it's all genuine you you've asked me a million times come and you've asked nothing from me and i know you do it to so many other people well-known people not well-known people, but why? Aren't you ever tired? Aren't you ever saying, like, leave me alone? Let me just go sit on a beach with my wife and you know, just kind of chill out. I just build the most beautiful

four-story pages retreat so people can come to me. And I've already had Johnny Morrison down there. Darby comes down all the time. They can now can come

to the beach and I've got three rooms that are on the Gulf of America. That cracks me up every time I think about it. But three rooms that are on the Gulf, private porches, I put heated floors in the bathroom and towel rack and boday. There are all the rooms. But it's the most beautiful place that my family was just down there with me.

Everybody, my brother Colin and my sister-in-law, Patty, but, you know, everyone else is there. This is your home. This is where you live. It's where we live in Atlanta and our main residence is now Florida. Okay. Because I just, I mean, we live on the beach. You know, it's just full, two full kitchen so we can be all by ourselves and there can be a whole boatload of people downstairs, which I will do when I do retreats. Okay.

And I'll have someone running all that for me. and we will be there for the to inspire people to believe again that's you know i talk about change or die i just wanted those people to start to believe and one of one of the girl the girl cecy she's right here she's from i want to say queens of brooklyn i'm not sure which one but uh what an unbelievable transformation she's gone over and it's been like three years since we actually shot that and where she is today and she's looked so beautiful and man she just has so much energy and like she got it like she got it because it's not a workout show it's not a you know um you know change change your diet but well smart you know what real food is like we'd only cook real

food and that's why i helped scott and jake when they were so bad if you change change the food and put real food in their mouths. Well, they're not liban, so they can't even eat the shit. But by eating real food, you start to take away inflammation and your joints. And that's what really is you getting older. You suffer from getting, you know, beat up. And then you put garbage in your mouth. How's it expected to heal?

And that's why to tell Marcus, like all the way through it, He was so, so, he was still an addict till the end. And then we sent him to rehab. And then he came back. And then he lived at the accountability crib for friggin, over a year. And we're not filming anything or anything that. I just gave him a place like I did with Jake. And I had that to give at that time.

and here's the cool thing he was getting people lined up for his the vice show again dark side of the ring his dark side of the rank and he called Scotty Riggs

of course going to call Scottie Scottie Riggs looks fantastic yeah but if you would have seen where Scotty Riggs was then he was not fantastic he looked horrible yeah I saw you posted a before and after Orne Anderson said the greatest transformation in bodybuilding history, as far as nothing to a body, like in six months.

Yeah. But the teeth that were, you know, because every time he was, you know, he'd save up to get his teeth done, something go wrong with his mom and he was taking care of his mom. So he'd spend it on mom. So he didn't have the teeth. They were nubbed down to it. And Scott, he's not an addict at all. Like you'd think, well, he must be a meth addict or something. No. It was when you can't take care of your teeth, they're going to get worse.

So I told them. I said, if you can do a transformation the way I know you can, never thinking he'd do what he did because it was just off the charts. I said, if you can do that, I think I can talk that company that we work with to giving you their teeth. and they did and those guys sent me a a letter with a box that opened up that showed them helping a disabled veteran who was helping homeless veterans and um they they they came through for scotty and that's why all of a sudden looks like a damn model he looks fantastic by the way um i'm sorry about Hulk when you when you saw that news how did it hit you this is a friend a contemporary how did you react hard i was a tough one man that was a really tough one tell me tell me you ever thought

that jake the snake rober's right without live motch yeah piper and Hulk the i know why Hulk isn't here because he pushed himself too hard I mean, you had to see them all over, all over the place with the, you know, with his beer, All-American beer, and they're opening up a All-American, Hulk Hogan's All-American restaurant and bar. That too, yeah. And the wrestling thing he was doing with Eric. I mean, Hulk never stopped. And I, I consider myself in much better shape than he was.

And I wouldn't have taken on the schedule that he did. and yeah I hit hard because Hulk was a huge huge force you know that helped me like if he didn't see it like he literally that remember the tour I told you that

that first tour when I was the curtain jerker I were in Berlin and I walked through the curtain and he grabbed me and he pulled me over he said how are you doing it like how am I doing what

Hulk is he goes I don't see you on TV that often but when I do you know, I'll see you come up with something I've never seen you do before and you get the people involved. He goes, but then I don't see you. He goes, this is what they're doing with you, right? They're putting you on the road so you can learn your craft.

As a whole, I've been on the road in four months. He's like, what? I said, the only reason I'm on this tour because my real name was Paige Joseph Faulkenberg and the crowds love their Germans and I got smoking hot wife that walks me to the ring. I said, or I wouldn't be on this tour. He said, well, how are you doing it then?

I said, well, I guess, I guess it's working. I go down to power plant. He goes, what's that? This is the predecessor. This is the predecessor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To the performance center. Yeah, yeah. That's where I would work out with Triple H back when he was terrorizing. Yeah. And he said, he said, how are you doing? I said, I've been, I've been. working with the young guys and what I've figured out and this works for absolutely everything the more you teach someone something the better you get the better you get the more people notice you and Hulk said what and he didn't get it he said whatever you're doing you need to keep doing it because it's not this year or next year or the year after he goes but somewhere

down the line, I honestly feel that you have the ability to draw huge money with me and he walked away. And all I could think about was, oh my God, did Hulk Hogan just say he watched my matches? So now it's time to get on the bus and I'm walking up the stairs. I hear Diamond. He always called me Diamond. I always called him Hulk. Never called him Terry because to me that's who that guy was. Pulled me in. Bishop's sitting in there. He goes, you know,

everybody knows you boys. You guys are boys. He said, I think, if you start getting them to do something with him, because Eric was not the Grand Pou Bar yet.

He was of the collective. Right, right. And he told, I think somewhere down, line he could draw some huge money with me and now I'm thinking to myself a lot of people think it's all about who you know or who knows you but I don't think that that's what it's about I think it's about who's willing to say they know you who's willing to put their name on a line for you that's what he just did for me and he's the biggest name in the business at the time

and remember I told you I could see it Jake was the first. Dusty, as a talent, he loved me, he was a big brother to me, he was a mentor to me, sometimes he was a dad to me. It took me getting let go and coming back a year later and him being down that power plant because I kept going even though I wasn't working with a company and Jody Hamilton kept letting me go. So if I wasn't doing something with Jake on the road, I was down the power plant. And I had a meeting with Dusty coming, I'm coming back now. Right? I'm kind of come back to WCW. I got this whole idea, fishbowl angle. I'll reach in the fishbowl and pull out, oh, another jobber, you know, another

enhancement guy. But then I know I could get those wins, get a little bit of momentum. And after Dream, here's what I got. He goes, you know, D. I know you are within yourself as a top performer in our business. And I got to be honest with you, Dee. I've never seen it. Wow. Until yesterday. Wow.

So now Dusty goes, I don't know how you got here. I don't know how. He goes, but whatever you're doing, keep doing it. So now it's Jake, Dusty, and then Hulk. Well, Eric brought me up and told him what Hulk said. They didn't see it. And Bishop said, let's do this. Let me give you your release.

Go up to New York. Get over. Come back and I'll be able to pay you the money that you think you deserve. I took a couple deep breaths. I said, you know, this company's never made one guy. not one top talent I said I'm going to stay here

and I'm going to keep going and keep going and keep going until at some point I stick my fist right up the booking committee's butt and when I move my fingers their mouths move and bro

that's an exaggeration but you did it I did it And then all of a sudden, I mean, I love Kevin Sullivan. I love Rick Flair. I love all those guys. But there's times we butted heads, you know.

And I get it. Why would they think I could ever handle it? What think? Look at him. He's a joke. He doesn't know who he is. When Page Joseph Falkenberg stopped trying to be Diamond Dalles Page. And Diamond Dall's Page started taking on the characteristics of Page Joseph Falkenberg.

That's when my career went through the roof. And it happened because of the relationships I built with Eric, with Kevin, with Scott, with Motch. Now, Hulk. You know, if you go back and look, the second pay-per-view of all time for that company is me and Malone against Rodman and Hulk. And I guess he was right. When did you get into the backstage fight with Scott's Diner? This is big pop-a-pump, like, in his prime, right? Oh, my God.

He was scary. Back then, he was scary. It's so funny because me and Scott did say a really good friend. You're friends, yeah. We got, you know, I've been to his kids' games and stuff. I love his, you've got a kind of beautiful family. And we, it's so funny, I told him, I said, All I'll say is Scotty is I've been to Japan and I've tussled with Godzilla and I never want to go back.

He disrespected Kimberly, right? No, it wasn't. It was more than anything. It was, you know, it's just like everything, things you're trying to get over at certain time or not. And, you know, people get, you know, they get too caught up in their own gimmicks. Okay. And so to me... You had to let him know.

Yeah, well, again, I'm on a great spot. I don't go back, and there's a lot of things over the time when I went through. I could have stayed like wound up about or pissed off about or whatever. Again, from Vince McMahon put me in that position. Yeah. I don't hate them. I, if anything, I freaking really appreciate it because in the bigger picture, I can't tell you how many deals I almost went in on

and then didn't do it. Because of the lesson you learned there. Yes. And correct me if I'm wrong, you took a pay cut, right? Dude, I left $487,000 on the table. From your previous deal? The WC.W. Yeah, they said you're only coming in for X amount

and you took it because you wanted to get in. Well, it wouldn't let, they weren't going to let you in unless you took 50%. Crazy. Yeah. And you had to wait. Yeah. And it was just the play. Yeah.

But I had also a lawsuit with that on gimmicks, like that they, that they never were paying us for. And so I had to let go with that, and they gave me 70% of my money. Okay. So I've left $487,000 on that table, man. It was, it was a lesson. Well, you're doing just fine. A lesson, I won't make the mistake. Yeah, I'm doing fine now.

Change your die on Tubey. go check it out right now there it is DDP yoga changing, changing world man changing lives I saw you with Paul Walter Hauser

Yes What a guy Dude his last match He's Do you see that last match I mean He's a lunatic Why does he do this

I don't understand But he loves it Yeah He was living with me Yeah yeah yeah When he frigging went down to Anthony gogo And was hitting the ropes

And taking a little You know A little bump here and there And oh God my ribs, my ribs. Now he's jumping off ladders through tables. He's unbelievable. You know, you've got to put him, you have to look at him as a hardcore wrestler, man. Oh my gosh. He's really, like, stepped it up, and it made me and him really tight. He's always good, good people. He's so genuine, and he loves our business. Yeah.

And so I did Buff's podcast the other day. He's unbelievable. By the way, I want to thank you. I have this right here by my side. You're by my side right here. This is one of my favorite pieces in the studio because this is like old school that's old school that that's porcelain there too beautiful yeah they only made x amount of those so thank you so much for that you're welcome thank you for coming in that was fun you're you're you're an absolute i mean what what could we say about you you're your your your salt of the earth you're a mensch as we said you know what a menches a gentleman you're a true gentleman and the way you help people the way you you you devote your time and in your life and your patience it's really admirable uh this world needs

more people like you. Unfortunately, we don't have. And that's probably what makes you so special because you're one of one. You're such a unique soul. You're such a genuine, loving person. I appreciate you so much. So keep up all the great work. And I urge everyone out there to check out the show on 2B right now. It's free to download. It's free to watch. I watched it and enjoyed it immensely. And I know you will as well. So Diamond Dallas Page is a man. Check out DDP yoga as well. He's going to help LeBron James get back to the courts soon. That's the plan. We'll take a quick break. We'll say goodbye to the great DDP, the master of the diamond cutter in our studio, Living Legend. I'll be back right after this.

Okay, what a day on the program. That was Hornswoggle. I failed to mention when DDP was here that he, DDP, wants to offer our listeners the opportunity to do DDP yoga for 30 days for free on his app. all you have to do is go to ddp yoga now.com slash offer slash ariel ddp yoga now.com slash offer slash arreel um i forgot to say i was supposed to say it when he was there there it is ddp yoga now dot com slash offer slash ariel to try his yoga program for 30 days for free take advantage go right now sign up take advantage it is for free for 30 days

and that's another MENCH thing. I might go at Christmas. Yeah. I might actually pull up. It's 18 minutes from my parents' house. Wow. That is crazy. Yeah, the DDP Yoga Performance Center.

He'll have you for sure. Shout out. All right, it's been a long day. I'm tired. Super chats? I'm going to run through these real quick, Frank. You do it, man. What an interview would do.

Jeff, this is from Buzi Alpaca, might buy my first book in years. Also really cool show with all the guests from different backgrounds. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I hope that you enjoy the chats. I love the long-form chats.

I love the in-studio chats. Those are my favorite. And I'm glad to see that that you appreciate that. I'm glad to see that you enjoy that. This is from Hanashi M.M.A. We eat sleep and breathe. DWCS. I watch it on the low while at work while customers are annoying me.

LOL, the worst is looking away and missing the COO. I feel you, my friend. Also, Jason Hagholm lets us know that John Schiffen has been doing the DWCS play-by-play the past two seasons as a trial run. He does the Chicago White Sox play-by-play. That's the guy that I was thinking of. So wish him the best. Hopefully he gets the full-time gig. there was a vote for the amendment to the Ali Act, and according to Shaheen, I guess it passed six to nothing in favor. I think I'm right about that. People who spoke in favor of it. Nick Con, John McCarthy, Chris Lieben, Daniel Eichner, Jeff Davidson, UFC doctor, Tom Loughler, who's a promoter who has, you know, the boxing deal with fight pass, Forrest Griffin against Cajun Johnson, Rob Macy, Tarek, Safferdeen, Sarah McMahon, Brock Jardine,

Hugo Viana, Carlos Newton, Matt Brown, Matt Brown, excuse me, Pat Barry, Ray Elby, who is Chris Cyborg's husband and Todd Duffy. So some notable names. Here's a tweet from Chris Cyborg. If the Muhammad Aliak was applied to Memea, I would be undisputed world champion at 100. 145 pounds, or I would have earned my rematch with Amanda Nunes. Promoters owning championship belts and being able to leverage them to force fighters into long-term contracts below market value is not in the fighter's best interest.

So now that it passed, does that mean that it's gone? What does that actually mean? Does anyone know? I have to, I have to, uh, who me? Yeah, I have to, uh, dig deep on this. One second, one second, one second, one second, one second. Did we write about it yet on, I don't think we wrote about it yet on Crown? Article is not up yet, but we do have audio from Matt Brown.

Let's hear, how long is the audio? Let's hear what Matt Brown had to say. I've fought the UFC for 15 years. I had a good time They're actually Made a little bit of money But You know

The fact is like I don't know Like if there's anything I can say Because it feels like This is some sort of joke Like you guys are Just supporting

This no matter what I don't know if y'all bought and sold bought and paid for Whatever Like John McCarthy What the hell Like nobody

This is my point It's like Nobody's ever been On our side Since the beginning Like so I fought For 15 years No one ever

fought for me. My manager didn't fight for me. You know, I go talk, try and negotiate. No one ever worked for me. And I thought that was what athletic commissions were for, but I don't feel none of you all working for fighters. If you see all the fighters coming on to this little meeting you're having here, that's like, it's got to be a joke, right? Because we all come on and oppose it, but you're actually, I don't think you're going to listen to a thing we say. My God, like, it's really frustrating. Like, we just want someone on our side. MMAFA is the only people that's ever been on our side.

We're not even asking for anything crazy. Well, all we want is the basic protections that the Oliac provides. Like, we need an MMA. Financial transparency, you know. How about, like, no conflicts of interest, like, the promoter controlling the rankings and the title, which is, like, ridiculous to you, like, how would you, that's an absolute. So ridiculous. You guys would support that.

The sponsorships, like, we haven't had sponsors forever since Reebok. The drug testing, I mean, what kind of, what kind of fucking joke is this? Like, what Brock Lesnar do to Mark Hunt? Like, they knew exactly what happened or what Connor's trying to do right now. Like, if you want to protect fighter safety,

allowing promoters to determine who and when you fight Okay, so that is impassioned stuff from Matt Brown. A press release was issued afterwards saying the California Athletic Commission voted unanimously 6-0 at a public hearing today to support the Muhammad Ali American Boxing Revival Act, the bipartisan legislation introduced by U.S. Representative Brian Jack and U.S. Representative Sharise Davids, and endorsed by the Association of Boxing Commissions and, endorsed by the Association of Boxing commissions and Lonnie Ali wife of the late boxing legend and co-founder of the Muhammad Ali Center provides professional boxers with more career opportunities, better pay, and

greater safety protections. HR 4624, that's the name of the bill, I do believe, is currently awaiting a hearing in the U.S. House of Representatives. This is a statement from Zufa Boxing's Nick Kahn. On behalf of Zufa Boxing, we want to thank the California Athletic Commission for their thoughtful consideration of all voices presented in today's hearing and for their unanimous support for the Muhammad Ali American Boxing Revival Act. This bill does not eliminate or change any of the existing provisions of the original Ali Act. What we are proposing is an alternative system in which

fighters will have more choice and opportunities, better pay greater health and safety protections and more events in which to compete. Also, as the Commission is fully aware, the Muhammad Ali American boxing revival act is supported by Lonnie Ali, wife of the greatest Muhammad Ali. We know Lonnie personally and can share with you what she said to us. Quote, this is a great opportunity for boxers and this is what Muhammad would have wanted, end quote.

So there you go. The story continues, but this would appear to be a very positive step in favor of this act, this bill getting past we'll talk more about this as it develops

I'm sure more will come out in the coming days and weeks boys in the back tomorrow on the program pound for pound okay I think you'll like this one as a historian best years in MMA history but we're not doing calendar years we're doing a 12 month period

so it doesn't have to fall within one calendar year it can be middle of one year into the middle of a next year Because we all know what the best year. There's some, oh, look. Is it, is it 100, do you 100% know? Yes, of course, sweet 16, we all know. No, no, no, no, no.

For an individual fighter. Oh, got it, got it, got it, got it. And this is coming off of Marat. He's the one that inspired it, yeah. Best 12-month runs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, sorry, yeah, I didn't think. No, you're right.

I didn't specify. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Individual fighters, 12-month period, who had the best ones? or what's our top ones, you know? 415 SUP BITB is the place to be. That is it. That's the number, baby. As far as voicemails are concerned, crack on Friday,

and then right back here on Monday. Road trip coming up, but we'll tell you about that later. You came my music, Frank. What a day. Anyone want to read my signed copy of Only God. judge me it's signed man nobody wants to handle that oh I'm just gonna purchase one to support Jeff get him on that best sellers list real quick I just realized you read yeah you take the jacket off okay wow well we're great minds you know

jacket off look it's upside down so that just proves yeah there we go that just proves I always take the jacket off because I want it to be pristine yes yeah so and I put it very quickly this morning and And it's, I don't know if you can even tell, but it's, you can? It's upside down. Yeah. By the way, by the way, he told a great story about the, about the cemetery or where, like, his place of resting. There's actually a picture, right?

I don't know if you can see it. This is not the best way. But there it is, right there. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of wild. Tupac Amaru Shakur, June 16th, 1971, September. 13th, 1996. Amazing.

Yeah, it's really an incredible book, and I hope you at least took away from the chat that the amount of research that went into it is astounding. So, well done. Did the Blue Jays game start yet? I don't know. But they better win today. What? I can tell you right now. Oh, no, 808. Yeah, 8.8. Let's go, guys. First pitch.

What a day. Thank you, Sean Brady. Thank you, Stephen Spock. Thank you, Jeff Pearlman, thank you Danny Garcia, thank you Diamond Dallas Page. Bang! Back tomorrow's time, but this is a piece of my hair.