The Ariel Helwani Show - Sleeping on Dricus du Plessis in Khamzat Chimaev fight? PFL woes continue, more | The Craic

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

On this week’s show, Petesy Carroll is joined by The Craic alum Chuck Mindenhall and Ben Fowlkes.After a brief tangent discussing Petesy’s dream journal, the fellas dive into the biggest storylines surrounding Khamzat Chimaev vs. Dricus du Plessis — most notably, whether Du Plessis is being slept on yet again as an underdog (8:29).From there, the conversation shifts to the PFL, which is back in the headlines — and not in a good way. The crew unpacks the organization parting ways with one of its biggest stars, Patchy Mix, and what that might signal for the promotion’s future (29:02).That leads into a broader discussion on UFC matchmaking, sparked by the aftermath of the Ilia Topuria vs. Islam Makhachev superfight that never materialized. The guys examine what it says about how marquee fights are being made today (42:24).Staying on the topic of missed opportunities, they then turn to another major bout stuck in limbo: Tom Aspinall vs. Jon Jones. The trio break down the potential reasons behind the holdup and what it could take to finally make the fight happen (55:44).To wrap things up, the chaps preview this weekend’s matchup between Gilbert Burns and Michael Morales — and discuss whether Morales could be the next elite contender to emerge at welterweight (1:07:29).Join us on the bike: avironactive.com/uncrowned

Welcome back to The Crack, everyone. I am Pizzi Carroll. Crackheads, how have you been? It's another beautiful Friday. We have a lot to talk about today. I mean, as you can see on our beautiful thumbnail, we are going to be talking about Hamzat Shamiyaf today and the fact that he is once again favorite, probably not a surprise to a lot of people against DDP when they will eventually fight, of course. We have news to talk about regarding the PFL patchy mix. It's another tricky news story for the PFL. Let's be honest. We know that the boys in the back attacked the Ilya V Islam situation yesterday, but we will have a little reprieve to that, of course, today. And of course, there's a bit of a fight this weekend.

It is, of course, moralist in that main event. Chuck Mendenhall has talked to him. Chuck Mendenhall is on the show, I might add, as has Ben Foulkes, the Uncrowned Dream team. So we have a lot to unpack today. I've had a bit of an ordeal today and I'll get into that as well. show, I might add, as has been folks to Uncrowned Dream Team. So we have a lot to unpack today. I've had a bit of an ordeal today and I'll get into that as well. I kind of going to use the lads to be like my therapist of sorts because it's been a wild day in Dublin for Peter Carroll.

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And you can get back into fitness for the new year with introductory pricing. Plus head over to AveronActive.com forward slash uncrowned and get an extra $50. That's right. $50 off. Go to AVIRONActive.com slash uncrowned to end boring workouts. There it is. The wonderful people over at Averon, but a wonderful group of people, speaking of wonderful people, let's bring in the lads, Ben folks, Chuck

man, and all my beautiful friends. They were, Oh, like a warm hug. Just seeing those beautiful faces. How are you doing? Let it out. What's wrong with you? It's always something with this guy. It's always something.

He was talking right before you got on, Ben, I don't know how much you heard of this. Let it out. What's wrong with you? It's always something with this guy. It's always something. He was talking right before you got on, but I don't know how much you heard of this. He was, he was reciting a dream that he'd had. He was reading a journal. And I almost want you, I almost want you to read it. Oh my God. It was, we start the show with one of my dreams. It's, this is, it's worth it. Trust me.

Let's hear it. This is written, um, last year, March, 2024. You're going to the archives of your dream journal. Set up the context now. Why did you have this dream? Well, it was, I don't want to get too much into the context, but during this period, I was having very, um, very, very, I don't know how to say it, like visceral dreams. Like they felt really alive. And there was a reason for that, which I won't get into, but, very, I don't know how to say it, like visceral dreams. Like they felt really alive and there was a reason for that, which I won't get into.

But this is what this dream was. I'm just making sure this is actually safe to say. All right. Sorry. I live in a really fancy house in the dream. Tiger Woods is the first person I see every morning when I get into my car. It's a BMW Jeep to go to work. every morning when I get into my car, it's a BMW Jeep to go to work.

I go to Saudi Arabia to cover the Mike Tyson v Bruce Springsteen fight. For some reason I'm watching it on a bus with Chuck. Mark Goddard is commentating for some reason. I go out for a smoke and somehow get caught rolling a joint. I got stuck outside with three Saudi police and I missed the entire fight. The next, the next entry is Ireland are at war with England again. Wow. Let off a load of tear gas and get shot 26 times.

They let me die. By the time I get to hospital, they take my top off and I look in the mirror and I've got holes all over my body and welcome to the crack everyone. I am Pizzi Carroll. And those are my dreams from March 2024. That's good stuff, man. What do you think, Ben? You look poach. I'm frankly, I'm very concerned for you. And especially, I don't know how you're going to be like, I'm going to start this

show by reading my dream journal from a year ago when I was having really strange dreams and there was a reason for it. And I won't get into that. You better get into it. You better explain. There are clues within the dream I think. There's some stuff. You know one thing that was really strange is back at a period of time when I was covering a whole lot of UFC events on the road and was on the road at least you know twice, twice a month covering events, but also was doing a whole lot of just jujitsu in my own life for fun recreationally down at the gym. And so a recurring dream I would have, the closest I've ever come to having a recurring dream is that I would be covering a UFC event and they would come to me like Dave Scholler or somebody would come to me. That's how long ago this dream was.

He would come to me and be like, Hey, can you do us a favor? One of the guys is out. And it was always be somebody. The only person I really remember is they were like, could you step in and fight Cole Miller for us? Like, so it was somebody where, at least in my dream mind, it was believable where I was like, Cole Miller, he's not, you know, it's not like they're asking me to fight, fight John Jones or anything or Habib like, Cole Miller.

I feel like maybe I could take him. He's a jujitsu guy. I'm a jujitsu guy. You know, it's not like they're asking me to fright, fight John Jones or anything, or Habib, like Cole Miller. I feel like maybe I could take him. He's a jujitsu guy. I'm a jujitsu guy. And they're like, he's willing to give you, he spot you the weight and everything. We've got some shorts backstage and in the dream, it makes sense. I go back there. I start warming up.

I'm like, all right, you know, let's do our best out here. I'm helping out. And then right before I would walk out, I would be like, wait a minute, this is insane, I'm going to get killed. That is funny, man. Cole Miller, no disrespect. Cole Miller. If you're watching, I assume I know Cole Miller watches the crack every week. No disrespect.

That was just the most believable person. My dream brain could come up with. Maybe we could do like a live stream of UV Cole Miller in just the no geek kind of match, just to bring this some closure to the whole conversation. I'm the reoccurring dream. Um, listen today, right. We're going to get to MMA chat now in a second, but I feel like I need to explain here today, today I'm in Dublin city center.

I'm on the way home with friend driving the car. We come to a massive junction in Dublin. And next of all, this warning flashes on the screen on my car, malfunction, temperature exceeding something or other. Right. So I'm freaking the fuck out immediately. I'm trying to go through the junction, but the car won't go beyond 10 kilometers an hour. There's a lot of cars trying to get around me, beeping me, all this stuff. I ring my dad and like, dad, there's a warning.

It's saying like, there's a temperature malfunction on my car. And he was like, Oh Jesus, Oh God, I'm going to ring Darren. Who was our mechanic? He's like, Oh God, this is a good, this is good. And I was like, what do you mean? Could this blow up? And he's like, yeah, I think so. I think so. Let me call Dara. And I'm just in the car then nowhere to park. There was no parking spots. This is like a main road in Dublin. And I'm just like, right, I just got to keep going. So I'm like 10 kilometers just tipping along in Dublin.

Get to a place eventually ring my mechanic. He's like, okay, this is terrible. Your car is completely overheated. The heat, the fans are gone in the engine. I was like, what should I do? And he's like, just try and tip home slowly. And I'm like, what? So all the way home, my temperature gauge is going, whoa, just out of just out of nowhere Just not because it's actually a heat wave here at the moment Terrifying I got the car where it needs to go. Thank God, but am quite an ordeal boys And I can't tell you this the levels of stress. I've felt today. This is like a warm hug I'm having here because I'm in hotter than that car man. Oh Good car. This is good. I like when you're a little off.

Off center. You know what I mean? The car is also don't really give a shit, but I mean, stress. I feel like just try to drive home slowly is the advice I could have given you. If you wanted to call me, I could have been like, just see if you can make it. He's like, don't go up hill and the whole way home. I'm like this. Yeah.

You drink some seven up, right? That's what you do. Like, yeah, it are like this. Yeah. You drink some seven up, right? That's what you do. Like, yeah, it's basic stuff. Yeah. Well, listen, we better talk about some MMA. That's where we're here. Um, Hamzat Shamoif, lads, DDP. Um, as you can see in the thumbnail, the question we're asking our beautiful

crackheads today is, are we sleeping on DDP? Uh, of course, Hamzat Shamoif, an absolute savage ever since he popped up in the UFC in 2020. I think he's been in the favor in every single fight he's had. And it's been three years since he fought in the US and of course, DDP has been on an absolute tear since then. I think he's won many fights that a lot of people did not expect him to. He's coming into this fight and with a lot of hype behind him this time. He keeps making people cry at press conferences. I don't think that's going to happen with hands off from leon off.

What a lot just just to open this one up. Chuck it's not a surprise that this guy is the favorite boy i mean is it a bit of disrespect to ddp at this stage given how much he has shown us and during his UFC tenure. during his UFC tenure. Especially after the last fight, like I remember we had this discussion. We were like, you know what, man, I'm not, I'm not sleeping on this guy anymore. Like he's legit, uh, shutting down Strickland. It's funny because that's, you were talking about Homsot being a, a favorite. I think, um, if you look at Duplessis, like, except for that last fight, he's been an underdog for, for Izzy fight for the Whitaker fight, um, and the first

Strickland fight, so he's kind of been on the opposite side of this. So maybe if you're talking about like, you know, a sports book sense and kind of what the, you know, what the, as a weathervane for like what the public sees or whatever, maybe it does make some sense this way, but what is the line on this? Because I think it was the last I saw it, it was something like two to one, uh, favorite for Homsot, which seems to me a little high, you know? Yeah, that's what I'm saying as well. Yeah.

Maybe we're falling, maybe we're falling for, and I mean, we can get into this a little bit, but maybe we're falling for that last fight that, uh, that Hamsot had with Whitaker and we're like, okay, the beast or this monstrosity that came in, like that was, uh, that started is back and that's what we're doing. Right. I don't, I, but otherwise I feel like that line's a little disrespectful. What say you folks? My first thought when I saw that line was we're doing it again.

We're doing it to this guy again. We do it every time where DDP will win a fight, look awkward the whole time, but also unquestionably win, we'll come out of it and we'll be like, well, imagine that he won. He's going to lose the next one though. And then he'd go out there in the next one. He'll go out there, win, look awkward, still get it done. And we'll be like, well, one another, he's going to lose the next one though. We've been doing it.

It's true. Basically ever since this guy came in the UFC, we will not learn our lesson. And I get it because I look at this stylistically and I go, all right, if there's a guy who could do some different stuff to DDP, who could get in there and just sort of like maybe physically overpower and bully him a little bit, get him into some different zones of the fight. Maybe it's Hamsa. But then I catch myself and I'm like, damn, I'm doing it again.

Do we just, we refuse to believe in this guy every single time he goes out there. Like on paper, if you just showed somebody this and you're like, here's the UFC middleweight champ, everybody kind of thinks he sucks. And they would look at it on the look at his record and be like, how he's beating everybody he's winning all these fights. He's beating all these like past middleweight champions. How do people keep doubting this guy? And we'd be like, if you saw him fight, you know, maybe you'd understand.

And it's wild. I don't like, I kind of think a similar thing to what I thought when Humsup fought Robert Whitaker was if it goes more than one round, Humsup might be in trouble and it didn't. And so he wasn't, but I kind of am inclined to think the same thing here with this matchup, I feel one way or another, by the time we get two, two and a half minutes into the first round, we're going to know some things. We're going to know some things about how this is going to go. Yeah.

It's a really, really exciting fight. Um, it's just, I think, right. The reason why I want to talk about the fact that it's, it's been a long time since he's been in the U S obviously three years, and I think it was the Gilbert borns fight, um, in Vegas. And I think there's some significance to this only because I've been to Abu Dhabi when Habib fought there. And obviously we know that these governments, they're paying the UFC to come there.

Right? Like they want Habib. They wanted Habib in Abu Dhabi. They want Islam in Abu Dhabi. Saudis want Hamza, a massive figure in the, for, for Muslim people, a massive, massive deal, understandably. But what I found out when I was covering 242 was it was the first time that it didn't feel like the UFC were in control. It felt like Habib was.

And I can remember there was a situation after the Wayans where he was going to do another press conference. And I was with Casey Lloyd and Esther Lehmann for MMA fighting at the time. And suddenly Habib was like, no, I'm not doing it. And then like the UFC were just like, oh, he's not doing it. And so then all the media kind of like, hang on a second. Like we came here to cover a Habib fight. We need to have the Habib moment. Next of all, they've changed the location of, of the press comments, cause

Habib wanted in a certain place. He wanted to do it at a certain time. He got up for 10 minutes. He said, I'm only doing 10 minutes, got up to do it. And that's what happened. Um, but basically the place was in the palm of his hand the whole week. It felt like the whole thing was geared around him. I haven't been to Saudi Arabia for a fight, but I know for a fact that Hamzat has been one of the big guys on all of these cards that he's had away from the US.

He's one of the massive draws. He's a superstar. He is getting the royal treatment out there and you know, he's a huge deal. Of course he has. But I wonder what that means when he comes back to the US Chuck and technically like he is not the king here. DDP is. I know he's a South African guy, but he is the king of the UFC's middleweight division. He is fighting for his title. Do you think that like is a different kind of situation for the guy to be in?

Does that change the dynamic in the lead up to a fight week when you're like, yes, you're in the main event. Everybody's excited to see you. There's been a massive countdown for this guy to fight for a title, but you're not quite the guy with the crown right now. I mean, and there's weird evidence of this of, you know, the, when Hamza was here wasn't with the whole Nate Diaz thing, right? With the Nate Diaz and then he had to go up and wait and he fought Holland. And it was like a whole ordeal.

Um, the, it could have some strength, like he's used to a certain thing. And honestly, this is one of the big criticisms as to why he couldn't get a title shot to begin with is because we were like, well, is he going to be eligible to fight in the United States? Because if he's a champion, if they're going to give him that shot, you can't just hold everything in the middle East. He's going to have to come over, um, at some point and fight on U S soil. They've solved that.

Now, what does that look like? I don't know. And there's always a little bit of a roulette feel to this when they book Homs out and anything, right? Because you're like, weird things have happened. He's had illnesses and there've been things that have kind of gone on where you're like, you got to make sure he's going to make it there. So I feel like we can't just take it for granted, you know, that he's going to be there. But you just hope he is. But I think that the big thing is

that he's able to come to the United States. For the longest time, we would speculate and say like, well, he's got a visa problem. He can't get over to the United States. At least we've solved that problem. And you know, it's kind of open for him to do this. What that means, I don't know. You're mentioning like Habib. Um, I also remember, and they did plenty of, uh, publicity when Habib was fighting Conor McGregor. Obviously, man, it got so dark through that whole period.

But in terms of one-on-one interviews, I remember we were trying to set that up and they were like only, they, they shut everybody down very similar to what you're talking about. There was supposed to be a couple of those set up. They shut everybody down except for your boy Ariel, Hoani and me. We were the only two guys who got them that time, but it was like a, but it was a very weird kind of tense situation. I don't think it's quite like that.

Like, I feel like they're, they're different, but I know what you're saying. There's a different kind of treatment that happens and you're like, what does that mean for Homs out over here? I guess we wait and see. What do you think Ben? You know, it is interesting and a view to what this sport is like when we talk about, oh, this guy hasn't fought in the U S for a while. Why not?

He had some visa problems. We don't know, right? Like we still open the air, like apparently, you know, that's, we're kind of on that way. Right. It's better than share a bullet where we're like, well, the dude is clearly. Yeah. Um, well, I mean, is it better? Cause especially like with, with Humza it's like, yeah, we think it's mostly owing to

his close personal relationship with a dictator who likes to sometimes threaten genocide. Uh, you know, that's weird. I should be laughing, I'm sorry. It's weird and it's also, it's weird how it's not that weird to us. We're like, yeah, that makes sense. MMA, it's a wild and diverse world of all kinds of people in this kind of world. And then, you know, lo and behold, we get his visa problems fixed when a friend of the UFC CEOs becomes president of the United States and suddenly it's not an issue anymore. We can have Hamsa come over here and fight.

It did seem though that that was going to be a big thing that stood in the way of the UFC seriously considering him as a champion because you can't have a champion that can only get in a few places to fight. You know, like Robert Whitaker's joke about him where he was like, Hamzat is always tweeting at me, like, I'll see you soon. And I'm going where? You can't get in a fight anywhere. Uh, and so if you have that cleared up, that does remove like one of the hurdles.

But Chuck Reyes is a good point that I, the UFC must be thinking it. I know they think like, Hey, this is a good fight to book. It's, it's, it would be a really impressive next step for DDP to take. I mean, imagine if DDP had a year where he was just like, yeah, basically beat everybody there is to beat at middleweight, beat Hamsa, beat Sean Strickland, beat Israel Adesanya. Like at that point, we might have to step back and be like, Oh crap, is DDP the best middleweight champion since Anderson Silva?

We're not psychologically ready for that yet. That's not ready to have that conversation, but that's kind of where he'd be as well, right? Like if he is doing this kind of stuff. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy to think that that could realistically happen because Hamzat has been looming in our minds for a while as like a scary figure whose day is coming at middleweight.

But at the same time, you know, the UFC, when they booked this fight, they're like, this is the one that makes sense. This is a logical next step. We need to have a backup option though. If we are depending on Homs to come in there and actually show up and deliver. Cause you don't know what's going to happen with that guy. Yeah. It does feel like that.

It feels like it's very like, well, we'll, we'll see if it all goes down as they think it will, but for the sake of that division, and also just for fans, because we keep getting these big fights kind of dangled in front of us and we don't get it. I actually feel like this is right up there. It's not quite the Ilya Islam type thing. But like, we've been trying so hard and, you know, for the longest time speculating and, you know, just kind of thrusting Shumayev into the Tata fight.

We've been saying this forever. It feels like he's been on this move for the last, what, four or five years, right? Like it just feels like it's been coming. So we're finally here. It would suck to not get it, right? It would just, it would be like one of those things like, man, we cannot get any of the things we want this year, even though they're right there in front of you. So, you know, we'll, we'll pray to what was the, what was Ben always had like the Zion or whatever, uh, gods.

The MMA gods. Yes. The strong, strong up there upon mountain Zion. Yes. And ready to hit you in the teeth with a thunderbolt. They hear you talking about how you're going to be a three division champion or whatever, uh, before you've ever won one belt. That's, I hate that. I can't.

When you show those rankings, poor Nassar Dean Imovov. No, no, no. Somehow every, every division's got a guy like that, you know, that we just kind of like, I pushed that dude aside, you know, he's in the ball situation, the Leon situation, it's the, the, the, yeah. Armand, Tsarukyan, right? Like it's all, there's a bunch of dudes like, the Leon situation. It's the, the, the, yeah. Armand, Sarukian, right? Like it's all, there's a bunch of dudes like that. That just so like, nah,

brilliant thought. I enjoyed fantastic. Um, there's also a situation you can't look past when you look at Hamzats record. Um, look, Ousmane's a big welterweight, no doubt about it. Uh, Kevin Holland, um, Yeah, he's not very big. Gilbert Burns was a lightweight moved up to, to welterweight. Robert Whitaker wasn't getting on very well at welterweight moved up to middleweight was considered a small middleweight. Guess what?

Drick is two plus E is not small in any way, shape or fucking form. He is a monster. He's like, I think I've compared him to fighting a wardrobe. You know what I mean? He's just coming at you. Like it's impossible. You can't even get your eyes on him. He's like, I think I've compared him to fighting a wardrobe. You know what I mean? He's just coming at you. Like it's impossible. You can't even get your arms around the guy. He's so big.

I think that's a serious issue when you're, you're a grappler. When you're a guy like shooting double legs, um, obviously he is excellent. He comes out as unbelievable wrestler. He is, uh, he is so aggressive. His explosion into his shots is, is, you know, you blink and you miss it. What he did against Whittaker is perfect evidence of that. But, but he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he is so aggressive. His explosion into his shots is, is, you know, you blink and you miss it. What he did against Whittaker is perfect evidence of that. But Chuck, man, the size of DDP is going to be an issue here. It has to be right.

And I'm crazy thinking that he hasn't fought anyone on that. That same scale in terms of size. No, you're right. 100%. And I think he said, like, he walks around something like two 30. He's huge. He's, I mean, he's a big like 230, 225. He's huge. He's, I mean, he's a big dude, but you know, what's really crazy about him is like, I, I can

remember when Strickland, both times we were like, is he going to mix in some wrestling? You know, is he going to mix in some wrestling? He's going to try to wrestle. And he didn't, I don't think he ever really shot in, you know, and I know that Izzy did once, but it was more like in a desperation

moment. Um, nobody's really doing that. I think Brunson might've been one of the dudes who, uh, who, who took down, uh, DDP for like just a minute or something. Like, do you remember that? Like I only kind of remember a little bit of the, how that went down, but not a lot of guys are doing it where you know, in this fight, that's going to happen. I guess that's one of the, the big, you know, mysteries of this fight.

What happens when somebody is just trying to sell out to take you down? And what do you look like when you're on your back? Are you able to, you know, are you, are you a different version of yourself? We haven't seen enough of that, right? That's the one big mystery in this fight. So I don't think it's going to be easy to get him down. Like you're mentioning, man, he's a barge of a man. Like he's going to, he's going to be hard to take down. But if he does get that done, if, if Shamsa, if a Hamsa is able to get him to the ground,

I feel like we're, we're now, you know, gathering information that we haven't had before. What'd you recommend? Yeah. I think that also though, the question is what do you do once you get them to the ground? Because Hamsa does have good submissions, but I also feel like from what we've seen from him in some of these past fights, if he gets you to the ground, if you get back up, he's not necessarily the same kind of Habib fighter that can just keep doing it to you all night long. Who can just keep dragging you back down, making it tough for you to get up. He kind of needs to finish you early on,

I think, because I think that that's going to get a lot tougher to do against DDP. We've seen Hamsa fade late in those fights. At this point, DDP has a lot of experience in five round fights. And I don't know, I just don't see Hamsa being able to keep rinsing and repeating that strategy for five full rounds. I think that he probably needs to jump on DDP early, do the thing where he did against Robert Whitaker, where you just get the guy locked into a spin cycle where he keeps falling a little bit further and further behind. And then you pull off a submission because I think if you, if you hear the

words round three and this one, I think it starts to tilt toward DDP, regardless of what's happened up until that point. With that said, that's the one good thing about Usman and Burns, right? Like the, the fights where guys were able to kind of put some tape together, because beforehand you're getting like a, you know, a couple of minutes of a first round or in the merchan thing, it's like, you get 17 seconds of a fight. You're not seeing a lot of what he's able to do, but I do think that that's what you cling to.

If you're DDP, you probably try not to put yourself, although he is such a downhill kind of guy. Sometimes it's like, I always compare them to like a toddler going downhill. Like it just looks like he's out of control when he's winging the punches. But I mean, as long as he kind of avoids that early and doesn't get himself caught. I mean, you're right, Ben. I feel like there's, that's the other part of this. It's like, you know, if anybody could be broken, if there's a guy who can do the

breaking, it's going to be DDP. Based on this, lads, I just want to ask you for your prediction now. And I'm sure we'll be talking closer to the fire. I just want to compare how we feel now, many months out to basically the week of the fight, given everything you said, Ben, I have a feeling I know which way you're going here, but who would you pick the wind this way? At this point, I feel like I need to break my personal cycle of thinking that DDP is always going to lose the next one.

Honestly, I think that there's a good chance that we have kind of built up Hamsad as a boogeyman in our minds. And that this could be the kind of fight where if you can't get them out of there in the first round, we find out that we, we got excited about the possibilities without necessarily seeing enough to really go on. Cause that's one thing you can't really say about DDP at this point is that we haven't seen enough of the guy. We've seen it. We've seen all kinds of facets of his game and we've had a good long look at

the guy, we still come away sort of unimpressed just because it doesn't look like we expect a champion fighter to look. It doesn't look as like clean and effortless. It doesn't look graceful. Let's just admit that even when it's cumbersome, it's very cumbersome. It's awkward, it's difficult to deal with, but it's also effective. And people have struggled with it. And I also think that if DDP is able to make this a DDP fight,

Humsad is lost because he has really succeeded in kind of just making it a wild, just very high paced and quick kind of affair every time he gets in there. And if he's not able to do that against DDP, I think he loses. And so I lean toward DDP here. Yeah, I'm doing the same thing. It's crazy because it feels like he's going into a buzzsaw. And obviously you can see the odds are reflecting that people are kind of looking at this, but there are levels when you get to this type of thing. And like you look at the, you know, the resume is who these guys fought.

And you kind of just, they're, they're, they're one alike opponent is Whitaker. Um, but I don't know what you can actually get from that because what Ben said earlier, if Whitaker survives, if that doesn't happen in the first round, I don't know what you can actually get from that because what Ben said earlier, if Whitaker survives, if that doesn't happen in the first round, I don't know how that fight looks, it's just a, it's hard to really know. I just think that if he's able to get through whatever that, that onslaught is at the beginning, if he's able to get through that, I just see a scenario where the tides turn and we're starting to be like, oh, here we go.

He does, he can't do it. He can't keep up with them, you know? So we'll see. It's a fascinating fight, man. And, uh, but I, I agree. I think it's, if it's early, you know, it's Shumayev. If it's late, it's DDP. So who are you going with you?

Come on, get off the dime. I'm leaning DDP. I think that he'll get, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think he's, he is so massive and so is Shumayev. Let's face it, man. He's also walking around as a big guy. I just think that for him to manhandle the way he has some of the other guys, I'm not sure he's going to be able to do that.

You know, I just, I'm not sure he's going to be able to do this exact same thing. He's to, to, uh, these smaller guys that he was doing it to. That's a, that's a full house for DDP. How worried is DDP? That's suddenly everyone like he's, imagine he's watching this show and he's like, hang on a second, they all all they're suddenly fucking yeah all three for all the same reasons and this is the sheer size of that wardrobe and you know I just say that would worry him honestly because I think he's kind of used as a

chip on his shoulder right like it becomes like a driving force like I'm gonna show these motherfuckers and they're like no we think you're gonna win go champ he's like yeah but if there's one thing I've learned about Like it becomes like a driving force. Like I'm going to show these motherfuckers. And they're like, no, we think you're going to win. Go champ. He's like, well, what the fuck. But if there's one thing I've learned about fighters after about 20 years of doing this is that they can always find the chip on their shoulder. They can go in there as like a four to one favorite.

And they're like, I know you, nobody's giving me a chance. Everybody's against me. And you're just like, what do you mean? Like the promoter made this fight for you to win and they can still talk themselves into it. A lot of guys, they just need that. That seems to be part of the fighter mentality. And some guys will even tell you, especially once their careers are done.

I looked for reasons to feel that way. I just sort of manufactured that feeling. It's important to them. The reality of the situation does not stop them from doing it. You're talking about these fighters as if they're deluding themselves. I've never known a fighter to do that. So this sounds, this sounds very honest brokers, honest brokers, if anything, only the best ones and they delude themselves with the best of them.

They, they, they really know how to do it. And you have to really stick around to this sport. Yeah, I agree. Um, there was positive news for the UFC Patchy Mix has signed after a long kind of impasse, we'll call it, with PFL. I see it as another bad news story for PFL. There it is there on our Jordan just took it up for his professional fighters league. And patchy mix have mutually agreed to not extend his contract. We both decided this is the best course of action for PFL on him.

Patchy is a fantastic for it and we wish him well. PFL is excited to crown our next 100 hundred to four pound champion in the PFL World Tournament. Now, I said UFC signed him. That is what we assume will happen. I shouldn't say that that is there. I don't even know if that's across the line. It's what we all think will happen. That's what it would not shock anyone in this whole community to hear that news.

He is a great fighter. Pachi mix. He is one of the jewels in their crown. Don Davis had tweeted, I think it was last year about how great he was and he's with the best 135 pounder in the world. He is now off their books and I Really like what PFL are doing in Europe and I've talked about it many times over here the Dune Bay fight in Paris I thought it was absolutely tremendous Well, what a moment to be there to see that unbelievable 20,000 people in that arena for a card that a lot of people who watch MMA every weekend probably wouldn't recognize a lot of the names that were on that card that night. It was it was tremendous.

I saw it again in Belfast last weekend. Seven, eight thousand people in the SSE to see Paul Hughes of this amazing moment. The problem is that nobody could see it in America. And that's really what that was meant to be about, showing the world what Paul Hughes means to the people in Belfast as hometown. They did not get to see that live. They obviously saw it in social media afterwards. But it is a very worrying time for PFL, I think.

Like every time I get excited about it, something else happens. Like even like I am using the PIA, the Paul Hughes fight as an example. Huge moment for him. A moment that kind of justifies him making this move, not going for the UFC, accepting their entry level contract, going with the PFL. This made sense. If you were there, you would have saw it and said, well, look, look at him moving these people.

And then you find out nobody could see it. And you're like, well, that's, that's really, really bad. That is not good for the fighter. That is not good for the PFL. I'm getting very, very worried lads. Um, can anyone ease my mind here or do you with me in this growing sense of foreboding when it comes to apparently the co-leader Ben? I mean, point to me a positive sign. Point to me things that seem to be like

headed in the right direction. Because you're already anybody who is really trying to compete with the UFC, not just be another MMA organization that exists. I think there's still space for those as long as you keep your expectations and your expenses realistic. But if you're trying to be out here and be like, Hey, we're just as big as the UFC. We're just as good as them. Give us equal attention. All the, the signs for the PFL are troubling. They seem to be in an outfit in decline.

And especially when you see all these fighters who at this point, it's more surprising when you see people who spoke up saying, give me a fight or let me go. And they opted for give them a fight. Like when you see Sergio Pettis and Rafael Anstotz book to fight each other, it does kind of feel like everybody else was like ringing the bell to get off the bus and the doors open for them and they kept these guys and you got to be like, well, okay, these guys probably assumed we were getting off the bus too. And wait, did we have to let everybody else go?

So just to free up the money to pay these guys, uh, their contracted rates to go in there and fight. Like it's surprising when they actually managed to keep somebody at this point. Plus when it, like you said with the Paul Hughes thing, it does. Feel at this point, like when there are opportunities, they're finding some way to botch it. Like when you had, you know, Dakota DeChevo, like when there are opportunities, they're finding some way to botch it. Like when you had, you know, Dakota DeCheva, like here's somebody, exactly what you needed, a homegrown talent kind of comes up through the PFL.

People know her, they're excited about her. And then the next thing they hear is she's mad at you and she's demanding to know why you haven't gotten her fight. You have the Paul Hughes thing where it's like, okay, you got something here. You got Hughes versus Usman. You can work with that. You know, that'll be a good return match. But then it's like, when you get Hughes, his big moment in front of like a crowd

where he feels like a genuine star, those of us in the U S are going, wait a minute. We can't watch this. I guess let us know how it turns out. You know, like those kinds of opportunities when you've already got so much stacked against you trying to compete with the USC, you can't afford those and they just seem to keep happening. And so no, there's very little that I see that's a reason for optimism. No, I'm not going to be able to give you any. Um, you're already in Don Davis's bad books, mate.

You better watch what you say. But what you know, we know when it was really glaring is like, so we do the rankings, we do our rankings and I have to, you know, do these little blurbs for each, each person who appears in there. And then every to, you know, do these little blurbs for each, each person who appears in there. And then every time, and it's not a lot of PFL people, but there are a couple. And, uh, Larissa Pacheco is one of those type of people. And you're like, I honestly don't know.

Like she could have fallen off the face of the earth at this point. Th this is a person who went in there and really did damage to cyborg. I know she did not get the nod, but that was a big moment. I thought for her even as big because it was more viewed. I think it was more considered than when she beat Kayla Harrison yet. Where is she? I mean, these people, they just kind of disappear. It's like a vortex with these people.

And like they, they just, uh, you know, when you get Dakota, like this whole time with Dakota, I'm like, we named her the breakout fighter of the year. I still think that she's probably the most coveted fighter on their roster. If the UFC could just pluck one, I'm sure that would be her and be like, bring her over because that's big business. And you thought maybe they had something working behind the scenes that we just haven't heard about. But then when she finally comes public and she's like, I haven't, I haven't talked to them. I mean, my agent has, you're just like, oh my God, nothing is happening over there. And then you start to truly feel the frustration.

If she's not getting, if she's not in communication and she's not got things happening for her, what are just the, you know, the, the people are rung below her, the ones who are kind of making up the organization, although all the names that are fighting regularly that we've learned and known over the years from PFL Bellator, what are they doing? What are they thinking? And it just seems like the dissension is growing more than anything else. And, uh, I mean, we've, we've been in the, all of us have covered this long enough to know when these signs are showing up, that it usually means it's

very bad, you know, so I feel like that's where they're at, but it makes it worse that they kind of dissolved Bellator. They like, why did they take Bellator? You know, like the aerial asked, asked that question. I think it was on Wednesday and it's like, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. Like, why did they even bother? Like all these guys are just leaving.

Um, there's a lot of like clock. We've missed, missed a lot of fights from these guys. They could have been competing in this time. And I mean, because they, when they did it, remember they were like, we're talking We've missed, missed a lot of fights from these guys that could have been competing in this time. And I mean, because they, when they did it, remember they were like, we're talking about things is great for the, this is great for MMA. If they're able to work though, only if it works, we're like potentially, and you know, they're bringing in, you know, they're signing Jake Paul.

Like they were doing things like that. You were just like, okay, they're, they're trying to, um, hit, hit things that the UFC wouldn't touch, but still have magnitude, uh, you know, it's still kind of translate to people. I was, I had to look this up. I was like, when's the last time Jake Paul even mentioned, I think it was July of last year that he even mentioned the PFL on any kind of social media or anything, I mean, just like three, right?

Like that was the start of 2023 when this first, yeah, when they first were doing it, I mean, the optimism and also the promises of what was to come. Yeah. It just, uh, I think that that's what makes it that much worse. It's just, uh, you had it planned for something. I think fighters looked at it that way. You know, they were, they thought something else.

Yeah. It's like, it's going to be absolutely detrimental to this whole industry, to this sport, if, if, you know, and I don't think I'm not the first person that's talking about this, this is something that's been talked about for a very long time. Like it seems like this, this organization is hemorrhaging cash and they're trying to figure out how to cut expenses and things like that. And if they go away, like Ariel's talking about, maybe they find a space between being a feeder league and the UFC.

Like they're like, I think he was calling LFA plus or like for, if you're a European cage warriors plus, but if this goes away, the amount of displaced fighters, like it's so funny that like the UFC had just been in court for so long about this monopsony idea and like, you know, this has gone away. Oh, like, you know, it's all signed off. Don't worry about it guys. But it's being further underlined with the fact that these, these promotions cannot find success.

I'm not trying to say it's the UFC's fault, but like this, this is not going well and if they go away, it's going to have absolutely devastating implications on the industry then. Yeah. And the question that I had when they bought Bellator and especially once we started to see how it would go, is what did you buy? Like what was, what did you get for that purchase? And if it's just to remove the other would-be competitor to the UFC, I don't know if that's

good enough. Because that, now that we've got some time from it, we thought at first what you're buying is the roster, right? You're giving yourself more people. Cause one of the questions that we had was when PFL made some of these signings, like, especially when you sign like Francis and Ghanu and stuff where you're like, that's a big signing, that's something you could do a lot with. It's going to cost you a lot of money upfront, but you could really go

somewhere with that. You could create an event that we really want to see, but you got to have somebody for them to fight. And they were even saying $2 million. Remember it was like worked into the situation, the contract like we're going to give $2 million to whoever he fights. Well, yeah. And that was Francis doing that.

That was Francis, which again, the next time Dana White tries to tell you that Francis Ngannou is a bad person, he's the only fighter I've ever heard of do that in MMA is try to make their clause so that there's a minimum and a very good minimum for his opponent in his contracts. And also look at some of the other people that USC does not think are bad people and still wants to do business with. So that, that contrast tells you everything. But it's like, we've seen this before with other organizations who are trying

to kind of really kick in the door and become a big competitor to the USC. It's one thing to sign a big free agent, but you have to have people for that person to fight. And when the UFC carries such a big roster all the time and doesn't really let too many people hit free agency at all these days, then it creates a really difficult situation. You're really, you have a lot working against you. That's why you can't afford to fumble in any of these opportunities when you do have them. Just on, just because you brought it up there and the two of me and Francis and Ghanu, all this stuff.

Do either of you guys expect Francis and Ghanu to ever fight in the PFL again? Me too. Me too, man. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Yeah.

It just doesn't seem like it's also maybe this is, um, it's, it's glaring in a lot of ways, but it is also, you know, like you had another league that just tried and in fact, what are we at May? I mean, they were supposed to have their event, like right now, the GFL, right? Like all these other people, you realize sometimes, man, fighters. I know, but you, you realize what these fighters put up with if they're not in the UFC, man, look at all of this, like, look what they have to go through just to get fights, to get paid. And this has been an ongoing story, man.

And I think that that's what, that's what sucks is actually, you know, when you think about like the, the absorbing of Bellator, buying Bellator, at least Bellator, you know, they might have complaints. They might have a lot of complaints, but they were legit around for a long time. They had, you know, TV deals, they were paying their fighters. They had a belt system, they had their way of doing things. It was still a professional outfit. It's just, it has devolved so bad in what was supposed to be a combined co-leader,

right? Like a big super league that they're, they're making outside the UFC. And it has just not been that. And in fact, it just, you feel for the fighters, man. Like this is, we do this all the time, but like, I feel if I'm not a fighter in the UFC, you know, if I, and I'm dealing with this, I, you could see why people are just like, this is not worth it. Like, why, what am I giving my life away for, for this? You know, and that's the point that I heard brought up when I was working on

some of those stories about the frustration going on with the PFL back when they first absorbed some of those Bellator guys. And there are a lot of people speaking out and being like, why can't we get a fight and why can't we even get anybody on the phone to tell us why we're not getting fights? And one of the things that I heard from a few people, managers and coaches and stuff, they'd say, you know, people talk about UFC and the fighter pay, and that is a real issue, especially when you look at the, the split between how much money is coming in and how much actually makes it to the fighters.

Those are all real issues. But one thing you can say about the UFC is they give you what they say they're going to give you. And that's true, honestly, like there are plenty of things you can criticize the UFC for as well, but you don't hear this kind of criticism. They tell you, you know, we're going to give you this many fights. Uh, they give them to you. They, they at least give you the opportunity to have those fights.

So they also will hold you under contract for as long as they possibly can at times. the opportunity to have those fights. So they also will hold you under contract for as long as they possibly can at times. But the, the people will tell you like, you can count on them to make good on these contracts and to let you know what's going on. And when you see that comparison and other organizations where that's not happening, you just go like, all right, yeah, that is a tough way to try to make a living as a fighter when your, your athletic window is so small. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of fights that we wanted to see made, Ilya Topuri is not fighting Islam Makashev boys. We saw the fight last week. Jack Delamadelina, fantastic win over Bilal Mohammed. Ilya now fighting Charles Oliveira. Islam is going to go up and fight JDM at some point. I guess, I know the lads talked about this and great deal.

Yes. They talked about, um, Islam's legacy as lightweight champion. Is he one of the greats? But the thing that I kind of keep coming back to here is like this, the fan base accepted this so quickly. You know, it was just like the, there's another thing the UFC deserve credit for. They've trained the fan base so well that they tell them when to get annoyed at things and that's not a lot, but right now that happened, right?

We had this amazing fight. We talked about it. We were laughing last week about how much we talked about it. It was the thumbnail for every single episode of this podcast. Let's say since its inception, um, Ilija v Islam, it is not happening. And I just can't believe how quickly everyone just moved on and was like, yay, Islam VJDM, what a fight. Oh, great.

We get an Ilia V. Charles. This is amazing. And I'm like, what, what the fu- what happened there, Chuck? I mean, how is this happening? I mean, God bless the boys in the back. I was listening on that a little bit, but they were talking themselves into this too. I could, you know, I think Rick is 100% genuine in fairness to him.

I believe that they are, but I mean, I'm not, I'm like you, I thought this exact thing. I'm like, so we just are going to accept this and roll on, huh? Like that's it. And I mean, I guess it's inevitable. That's what's happening, but this is clearly a consolation. This is not what we wanted. Um, and the problem with it is we've been, same thing with same before. We've been around the game long enough to know if you don't strike something

like this one, the iron is hot and while it's right there, it often won't come around and at least not in the same circumstances, you know, like if it happens, it happens too late. Um, this was a, this was a brilliant setup. And I wanted to see it because if you imagine the walkouts, I remember when I was at Ben, were you, maybe you were there too when a Cormier fought John Jones the first time and it was like, you know, you're, you're watching this fight and these guys are walking on, like, this is incredible, man, because you, you couldn't imagine either one of them losing at this point in time.

It was like, they were both so good coming from different weight classes. They were, the partition was up between them. Now they're fighting. That was one of those magical moments, man. It was when they're making those walk coming from different weight classes. They were, the partition was up between them. Now they're fighting. That was one of those magical moments, man. It was when they're making those walkers. If you imagine that with Ilya Toporya, a guy coming up, the one who's going to

introduce doubt into Islam's reign, right? And it doesn't happen. And it's like, it just sucks. I'm, and maybe I'm one of these guys. I think part of this is Charles Olivera. And I mean, he's a great fighter dudes, 35 years old. He's fought everybody. He was a champion, but he's not going to, it's weird at this point in his career.

Right. Because if, if, um, if Ilya beats him. And I think a lot of us think he will, you're just going to, like, we, we, we, we're, we're always concerned, like, what are people going to say afterwards? What are they just going to say that Charles is, you know, on the decline? They're going to say, of course, they're going to say, of course. So you're like, so you're like, what are you getting? What are you getting at this?

Where you get true, like greatness or information on, on where they really stand would have been the fight that we were trying to get. Um, I do think that the other fight is very intriguing and I will fully come around to that, you know, with, with Della, Maddalena and Islam, because they, you know, but I think that that fight could have waited is all I know that Ariel has been on about this quite a bit too. Um, I just feel like it's an opportunity

missed, man, that's all. Uh, and I don't know if they'll ever get that back. That's the problem. I, if one of the guys slips at this one or even looks human, you know how this works, man. It just, it slips off of that, whatever that must see aspect is, and it becomes a big fight,

but maybe not the same thing. Yeah. That's the same thing I thought is that you had an opportunity to make something that felt really huge and special because you had a guy who was looking like already, we were ready to annoy him as the best featherweight maybe that we had seen since Jose Aldo, maybe one of the, on his way to being one of the best ever. And he announces, Hey, I'm leaving the division and I'm going to go up and challenge myself against a guy many people think is the pound for pound best

fighter in the world and definitely the best lightweight in the world. A fight that I think a lot of us would have said, Ilya Tupori is going to lose. Which was something he had gotten to a point at featherweight where he couldn't find any of those fights anymore. If anybody had been matched up with with whether it was rematches against Holloway or Volkanovsky or Diego Lopez, he would have been a huge favorite in all of those fights. Uh, going up and fighting Makachev was one where I think a lot of people would

have been like, you're about to bite off more than you can chew, but you know, do you got to respect the ambition, the willingness to go do it to at the height of his powers to say, you know what, I'm leaving one belt willingness to go do it, to at the height of his powers to say, you know what, I'm leaving one belt behind to go into an entirely new division and face the toughest guy there. And to miss out on that opportunity when it was right there, because it's like, if you want to see Islam, Mahatchev go to welterweight, you can always do that later. You can always do that after he fights Ilya Toporya, whether he wins or loses honestly, you can have him go up to welterweight. And now what's going to happen is that Islam is going to go to welterweight just as Ilia

is coming to lightweight. So at lightweight, you got to fight that you're going to call it a championship fight, but it doesn't really feel like it because there's no existing champion in it. And then you're going to have Islam go up to fight a brand new champion who is still kind of being introduced to a lot of the mainstream fans. They still aren't going to be totally sure what to make of Jack Delamont Elena, especially because I don't know how many people actually tuned in and watched JDM beat Bilal because you know you heard a lot of people be dissatisfied with the quality of that pay-per-view overall. And so Islam going up to fight

JDM, if he wins and becomes welterweight champion, you already know what people are going to say. They're going to be like, he kind of did a Randy Couture. He waited until there was a champion who seemed more vulnerable than some of the past champions. Then he went up there. He picked a spot. He fought, he got the title.

Big deal. We, you're still going to want, especially if Elliot Deporia comes out of that, beats Charles Olivera, which when I saw he's a four to one favorite over Charles Olivera, I was like, hold up. Chuckie Olives is still Chuckie Olives, you guys. Holy shit, that's crazy. Really? Yeah. Fuck. And, you know, if Ilya wins that fight, becomes lightweight champion.

If Islam beats JDM, becomes welterweight champion. We're just going to be in the same situation again, being like, make them fight. Dude, you nailed a lot of good points there. The one thing that, you know, it's really, this is an Ilya perspective, but people want to take Islam's perspective. I'm like, okay, you can start to make sense of it and your acceptance can be easier. This was an Ilya move. And I think that because there's a boldness, it wasn't like he was coming up

because like, Hey, I can cherry pick that title because I know I can beat that guy. He was, it was the boldness to come up and say, I'm going to challenge the dude who thinks he's invincible. That's what sucks because you have a guy who was coming, he was going to come up and present this, it is not GSP going to like to fight Bisping. This was BJ Penn going up at UFC 94 to fight GSP. And if you remember that fight was like one of those things you're like, dude, this is because they had history too.

They'd already fought. That was just one of those things you're like, dude, this is because they had history too. They'd already fought. That was just one of those things you're like, this is a crazy, like there was so much admiration for BJ Penn at that moment, just to be like, I'm going to go do this, man, I'm going to, you know, and I felt like that's where it was at. So if you're looking at the context of this, it's the, from the Iliya perspective, and I think that that shouldn't, like people should remember that he went up to do this, you know, that's what his aim was to do. It just didn't shake out.

That's the big disappointment. Yeah, I think, go ahead. It's just like, you know, the, the idea that this can happen again, but they'll never be in this situation again. Like that's what people don't understand. Like whatever happens beyond this point, we will never be in this situation again. Like even, even if Islam goes up and he beats Jack Della Maddalena, he's moving back down, people like, oh, he's, he's a welterweight now.

You know, he's a wealth. It's a, he's going to be destroyed by this way curve. Like it's just, it's a perfect moment. It's an open goal and it doesn't happen. And I think that's worrying. Like the reason we got into MMA is because they made these fights. Like you're talking about BJ Penn and GSB. And I think that's worrying. Like the reason we got into MMA is because they made these fights. Like you're talking about BJ Penn and GSB.

I know Ariel worked on that countdown show, you know, when they were in Hawaii and stuff. And running the rock when he was out there running the rock. It's a great, great time. The ocean is crazy. Like, this is the shit that built the sport. Like this is what it's fucking about, man. And it just goes and everyone's like, well, Islam JDM. And I love JDM.

I thought his interview with Ari was great. Uh, I love his character. He is anti show pony. He is the opposite of what has come to be the norm in MOA where it's like, look at me, look at me. He couldn't give a fuck if you're looking at it or not. I'm just going to do JDM. I love that shit, but it was right there, dude.

And I cut you off Ben. So please pick up wherever I've left off. But I just, I can't get over how quickly we're moving on from this. Yeah. Especially for me, because the, when they're kind of going back and forth at each other, you know, the tweeting at each other or somebody is tweeting on Islam Mahachif's account, uh, what are you saying? Yeah.

What is this? There are some tweets issuing from account purporting to belong to Islam Mahatma. And he and Ilya are kind of going back and forth at each other. And I think if you're a regular fan, you're watching this, you're seeing these guys both, you know, kind of talk shit to each other and you're going, these guys should fight. Why don't they fight? Like they seem to have an issue with each other. They should fight each other. Like that's what this whole sport is built around. So why don't they fight? Like they seem to have an issue with each other. Uh, they should fight each other.

Like that's what this whole sport is built around. So why don't they just do that? And I also think it's not a great look for Islam because. Ilia is the guy coming up after you and you're being like, uh, you don't deserve it. I'm going to go up, I'm going to go up a weight class and do the thing that I am saying you don't deserve to do in my weight class. And he's, and especially the way he phrased it there and that tweet where he's just like, the difference between you and me.

And it's like, all right, I'll tell you one difference between you guys. Ilya actually has a win at lightweight in the UFC early in his UFC career. He fought at lightweight and won. Islam does not have that at welterweight. So if anything, he has more of a claim to be able to go up to that weight class. Cause he actually fought there in the UFC already. And so, especially, I saw Ilya's comments, I think, to like Eurosport or something where he's like, I have never seen such hypocrisy. I was like, you know what? He kind of has a point. One of Islam's responses where he was just like, you're just

a guy with a cool haircut. And I was like, is that a burn or not? Because I mean, if you're Ilya, you're probably like, Oh, man, I guess I'm glad you recognize the cool haircut. Uh, but it just makes it seem that like the guy standing in the way of this fight happening, the guy avoiding this fight or, you know, in order to do something else is Islam. So that, and, and for what, because I feel like if you tell me Islam is doing it because he wants the credit of being

a two division champion, he feels like people weren't giving him enough credit for beating Alexander Volkonovsky because he was coming up from featherweight. And you know what? I'd say some of that is probably true because once he did beat him, you know, and then the second time he beat him on very short notice. So there were things you could say if you wanted to take credit away from him. And if he says, I want the credit, I don't want to fight another featherweight. I'm going to be the guy who goes up this time and get that, that attaboy.

But first of all, you're not going to give you the full credit because you're fighting the guy who's the brand new champ who hasn't really established himself as a champ in people's minds just yet. And also instead of chasing credit from a fan base that is known for its ability to withhold and dole it out kind of just like on a whim, why not chase money? Because money isn't real. And like this is prize fighting. You're not going to convince me that you're selling more pay-per-views with Islam versus

JDM than you would with Islam versus Ilya. There's just no way that is the bigger fight. It does way more in terms of viewership. And if you're the champion points on the pay-per-view, it's a much bigger fight. I don't understand walking away from that. Cause like you said, P.C., I think a lot of times people think, oh, we can do it later.

Yeah. Look at the history of this sport. There's plenty of those fights where we were like, uh, don't worry. We're going to build to this one. Well, we're not going to have Miracle Crow Cop come in and fight Randy Couture right away. We're going to build to it by having them beat up Gabriel Gonzaga first. Well, look what happened.

They used to go with the mantra too. Like this was Dana White when he'd do his scrums, like you have to clean out your division. You know, this was always this thing. So like the GSP Andy Silva thing, it was never going to happen because there was always a guy coming up for one of their belts, you know, this was always this thing. So like the GSP, Andy Silva thing, it was never going to happen because there was always a guy coming up for one of their belts, you know, and it was like, well, he's got to beat that guy before we even discussed this. And it ends up never happening.

Um, same thing with like, like Cruz and Aldo, right? Other than injuries, it's just, you won't get it, um, unless you, you just leap. And this was actually tailor made, um, to happen. It wasn't like this was, uh, something where we're like, all right, let's push both things aside. We're just going to like, we're just going to have the super fight in the middle of it all. The guy had already vacated his title.

Yeah. And was moving up. It's like, it was already there. So that it's just, it's, it's going to sting. I agree with you, man. I don't really love moving on, especially when you're talking about like, I see people now like, well, you know, Aspen also just fight a zero gone at this point. And I'm like, if this happens, I'm like, of course you got to do something at

some point, but it's, it's, it's, it's so non-complete, right? Like every time these things happen, you know, it just goes, it's like a, it's like a detour every single time. Yeah. Ben wrote about this during the week in the Jones situation. We've seen the videos of him playing with the man's hair and whatnot on the back of a moped. And off he goes. And it's, you know, we're fucking, we're nearly, when did it start? November. We were meant to set this all up and we're still here.

And I feel like, you know, Jones, he did another video, which Ben talks about in his video where he's on the moped this time. And he's kind of, you know, Jones, he did another video, which Ben talks about in this video where he's on the moped this time. And he's kind of, you know, nearly surprised. There's people calling me a duck in the chat. Like what, what the fuck is going on here? That's not how it works, man. That's exactly how it works. That's exactly how it works.

If you're avoiding the fight and you're out here and you're being like, how can I be ducking? I'm having a great time. Very easily. Those things could be reconciled very easily. Ducking doesn't just have to be that you're sitting around in a room, uh, avoiding the fight just cause you're off having a good time and time. And here's the thing.

It's like, if this is what John Jones wants to do is out there, live his best life, riding around on, on a motorcycle while talking to people on Instagram live, which just given John Jones's history with motor vehicles, don't introduce driver distractions into it. Cause it's, it's a bad idea, but if that's what he wants to do, live his best life, do all that stuff, not concerned with Tom Aspinal, doesn't feel the, the need to fight Tom Aspinal, that's totally fine, but give up the belt. Why are you walking around out here with the belt?

Also that post that he made a few weeks ago where he showed his wall of victory in his home on his Instagram. I don't know if you guys saw that. Where he, he, he had guys from like Albuquerque fine arts come to his house, put up this wall of victory with the fight posters of every single UFC event he'd fought at. And there was one last space on the wall. And he's like, I haven't had the steep a fight framed and mounted yet.

And then I'm going to put that one in that last space. Like, don't worry. There's one last space. And I'm like looking at the wall and I'm in, I don't see any more spaces, man. It doesn't seem like this guy intends to do this Tom Aspinall fight at all. It doesn't seem like he's putting it off to like a later date or like he's using it as a negotiating strategy. Once that steep a poster goes on that wall of victory, it's done.

There's no more space on the wall. It's very like laid out, very symmetrical right now. It looks very symmetrical. Yeah. It looks great. Like the guys, uh, you know, Javier and Lyric from Albuquerque fine arts, it came down there and, and put that, that those posters up, they did a great job. It does good work.

But it reminds me of Lance Armstrong. Have you ever seen Lance Armstrong when he was, the case was going on, he had sat down on that chair with all the Tour de France's behind him. That's where, that's what it hit me. I mean, it looks like that guy is locking the trophy case and throwing away the key. Like he just doesn't intend to do the fight. And again, if that's what it, like, I don't buy the thing of like that you have a responsibility necessarily, like the same George St.

Pierre was saying where he was like, Hey, they're going to come and tell you to, yet you owe it to these other guys to pass the torch. You don't owe them anybody, anything. It's a selfish sport. Be selfish. I agree with that, but do the thing where if you are not going to do the fight, then tell people you're not going to do the fight, give up the belt, get out of the way, let everybody move on. Cause that's the thing.

It's like, if you don't want to fight Tom Aspinal, fine. Just say it, man. Just say you don't want to do that fight for whatever reason. Uh, but don't just like hang around and see how long you can keep possession of the UFC heavyweight title before they are forced to do something about it. A long time ago, I used to think that John Jones was doing this stuff on purpose where he would, like, he didn't understand like how tone deaf sometimes he could be or that, you know, he was just being awkward.

And now like you see this stuff and I'm not like, you see him post this and he's like, guys, you know, I'm living my best life. You think I'm ducking anybody? Come on. And you're like the logic disconnect of what's happening in this. I'm like, I just think it's John Jones. Like he's been, he's been a frustration to a structured fight game, at least a structured UFC for a long time.

You know, like it's always John just kind of living in his own world. It's just very different, but I'm with you, man. There's just a point in time. And I guess if you followed him long enough, a lot of, I feel like a lot of people are like, Oh, you know, let John be, let him be, but they're not people who followed his whole career. Like if you followed them from the word go back, what UFC 87 all the way to here, um, you would have seen patterns over the course of this that are just so like,

it makes it, it makes you so frustrated with John Jones. Every time he's kind of doing this now. Is he like, what's going on behind the scenes? That's really the question because every time Dana goes public, he's like, guys, relax, we're working on it. We got this, you know, but that is not the indications that anybody else is getting unless John is actually playing a masterful game through this whole process, but, um, it's it, what is it now?

Six months, Beatsy? It's like, it's something like that. Yeah. Like, you might've seen this earlier in the week. There was an interview put out and Tom says in the interview, we're going to hit here by the end of the day. What's going to happen here and people ran with it. I reached out to people within the hospital

account and they're like, oh yeah, we recorded that six weeks ago. Like, so this is like, this is like the third time they've been told, like end of the day, end of the week, end of the week. Like, do you know, like we think, right? There is a possibility at the very least we have to acknowledge that there is a possibility that Tom Aspinal could be an all time great heavyweight. That is a possibility, whether it happens or not, I don't know, but there is a possibility that he Aspinal could be an all-time great heavyweight. That is a possibility. Whether it happens or not, I don't know.

But there is a possibility that he is an all-time great heavyweight. And right now he is in a place where he can't do anything. Because if he takes another fight, he's allowing Jones to just continue. It just lets this keep going. And the only thing he can do is really take the Jones fight. We've seen what Jones is doing. He's elongating the process. Dana Woy has said he will make this for you happen. And that's why I think it's different to Ilya and Islam. He never made that promise.

Ilya made that promise and the USC did not have to back it up. Whereas Dana has said on three or four separate occasions, I have to make this. And he's a very prideful man and he wants to make that happen. My question is to you, Chuck, when does this become the UFC's blame again? Because right now we're all in the camp and go and read Ben's column. It's brilliant. It outlines all the issues I think we all have with John Jones. But at some point this becomes the UFC's issue again, because what are you going to do?

You can't just keep, Oh, well, I guess we're waiting for John. John isn't doing shit, man. Like that, that is obvious at this point. He is not doing shit. There's a stubborn nature to Dana White. And I mean, to what extent this still exists? I don't know. I know he's always had the stubborn streak, but when he generally speaking, when he's like, Hey, we're going to get this done.

He's digging in, in a way, you know, like, and, uh, you kind of, you, you know, that you're, they're going to actually put forth that effort. Now at some point, this is the way that where it gets complicated. Cause if they do not get this done, who's the egg is on Dana's face, right? That's what's crazy about it. So like he has put himself out there. Not let's not forget that while, uh, you know, while Aspinall was having this ridiculous year where he became the guy he is.

Um, and so much was going on the UFC where the marketing could have swung and like really put him into a better position. Dana was, you know, going to every post fight press conference and basically saying like, John Jones, you guys are crazy. He's the number one fighter. He was the pound for pound best. He's the goat consensus, blah, blah, blah. He was going on about this through everything.

It was like it overclocked everything to the point where all the memes are coming out about Dana and John and all this. It, this has been brewing for a long time. So if he, if they can't get this done, it would be a glaring failure for the UFC. It would be glaring because this campaign has been ongoing since, you know, as they justified the full year we waited for Miocic and Jones to play out. I mean, it went on and on and on. It's going to be a very bad look if the UFC can't get this done. Yeah.

I also think that because you had two mega fights that you could have made this year. Ilya and Islam has won, Jones and Aspenol is the other one, and Jones and Aspenol is the bigger one. That's the biggest fight that you could reasonably make in the UFC right now. And you can't have Aspinall defend the interim title again. It gets too ridiculous to have an interim title that the guy has to keep putting up for grabs as if it's the real heavyweight title. Plus it's like, you know, the guy's good years, his prime as a fighter are draining away as he's

waiting for this big fight to happen. And especially when you consider that you waited all that time for Jones versus Stipe, which was the fight that Jones insisted on. Like that was him being stubborn and saying like, no, Stipe is the one that I want. That's the guy I'm going to fight. And it was because he wanted to add that name to his resume, even though the name had survived longer than the man, as far as just like viability in terms of MMA. Like he, he basically pulls a, a, you know, 40 something steep out of a semi

retirement, having not fought in several years, having not won a fight in like over four years, gets him in there. He looks everybody his age when he gets in there and you beat that guy. John Jones looked great beating him, but at the same time, he seemed to just want the name, even though we could all see the best steep eight years were behind us. It was 2018, 2019. He couldn't get out of Madison Square Garden quick enough. Remember how quick he was like, I'm out of here, man.

This sucks. I'm done. Yeah. And you got the sense that he only just came back just to make the money for this one. And it was very much like John Jones wants it to look a certain way. He wants his career to look a certain way on paper after it's done. But now you're six months later and you haven't even, you're not even seriously talking, it seems, about a Tom Aspinall fight. You're out there in Thailand

coaching against Nate Diaz in a Russian reality show. Like that is not the guy that doesn't look like a guy who is seriously dialed in and focused on defending his heavyweight title sometime soon. And so it just, if you can't get that fight done, you missed the chance to do Jones versus Nganu, which would have been the big one. Now you're going to miss the chance to do Jones versus Aspinall. It, especially at a time when you look over across the aisle at boxing and they are making some of those fights, they are making the big fights that fans want to see.

And granted they have an ocean of Saudi oil money to help them. And so that makes it a lot easier, but it's like, it's things have flipped in the combat sports. It used to be, this was the argument that the UFC would make as we make the fights the fans want to see boxing never does. Now boxing is making those fights and the UFC is not quite able to make them. And that's not where you want to be, especially when as Ariel likes to say, and I agree with him, feels like MMA is in a bit of a recession right now. And now Dan is bouncing over to boxing too.

Like he's saying, Hey, it's better over there. We can make the fights we want over there. I mean, I'd say it's bouncing over to boxing too. Like he's saying, Hey, it's better over there. We can make the fights we want over there. I mean, I'd say it's very tough. Um, being an hospital right now, like you're a backup fighter, you know, you're not going to fucking fight them. Do you even train that week? Do you train that? Do you train sick those six weeks?

Like you're preparing for a fight. You know, like this idea that this guy is so great and he's kind of just like an afterthought to everything. When I think most people consider the un-crowned champion of the heavyweight division, it's a really shit situation to be in. Like, especially after this guy was sideline with his knee, he talked about his, his, his at the darkest moments there. He's like, maybe I won't fight again. This must feel like some type of weird purgatory where you're just like, oh, well, I actually don't know if I'm going to fight again now. Like how long is, is, is, is Tom Asimov going to be 40 someday going, yeah, they said it's going to happen at the end

of the day. They're going to come back and get the, uh, the contract signed. Um, you know, we better move on. It's another one of those things that we will be talking about. And you're getting worked up pizza. You're getting worked up. You better move along. I'm getting fired up, man. I'm getting fucking fired up. Um, Michael Morales is 17 and O and he might be part of this new elite group. As welterweight, he is fighting Gilbert Melendez, who has had one of the most unfortunate runs of any fighter I've ever seen.

When you look at who this guy has fought, he has lost his three fights, but Blatt's let me just, let me just flesh this out here. His last three fights, the first one, May, 2023, Bilal Muhammad, pretty good fighter. March, 2024, Jack Delamadelaina, September, 2024, Sean Brady. Now he is getting Michael Morales who is 17 and O and he spoke to Chuck Mendenhall earlier this week and in something that you will never hear come out of my mouth. He said, we're remodeling my grandparents' house. I'm going to have to get a new house. I'm going to have to get a new house. I'm going to have to get a new house. Now he is getting Michael Morales who is 17 and oh, and he spoke to Chuck Mendenhall earlier this week and in something that you will never hear come out of my mouth, he said, we're remodeling my grandparents' house in Ecuador where everybody's going to live eventually.

My whole family is going to move in there. My grandparents, my mom, my brothers, we're all going to live there. Even my kids are going to live there. So with the money, we've been able to get some significant changes here. Chuck Mendenhall, a man who loves his family too. Michael Morales. Is he the next big thing at Welterweight? I'm building a compound out in Waco, Texas, boys. You should come visit.

It's going to be brilliant. Um, I felt like I introduced Morales to a lot of people, including Ben Foulkes. I sent the piece and he was like, he was acting like who the, who the fuck is And I look at 17 and O and I was just like, wait a minute. Like I've heard of it. It sticks in the memory a little bit, but you're just like, how do you get to be the 17 and 0 as a welts weight in the UFC? And I feel like I wouldn't know him if he walked in this room right now.

And then you pointed out, you were like, well, his last three fights have been all UFC apex fights and I went, there it is. Yeah, exactly. That explains it. And this one's at the apex. Yeah. Which makes no sense. Which is better.

Cause it's like, if you're going to get people to watch one apex fight, it's probably going to be the main event. But this is what you're seeing in action. Like what the UFC has done sometimes where it's like, you stick somebody on a bunch of apex fights and they could be awesome. It could be just tearing through people. But the apex fights, you, you signal to us with those that like, they don't really matter that much.

They don't matter as much as the pay-per-views or the fight night car, uh, in front of a live crowd. And we get that message. And so a lot of people like tune out. And then the next thing you know, you have a guy who's on a tear and nobody knows him. This one's a little bit like, you know, these, these apex cards, you're 100% right. They're, they're kind of like the, ah, if you want to skip a week and this is the

one, right? Like kind of giving you that reprieve. But this is one of those ones I'm like, you should pay attention. That's why I wanted to talk to him is because he's, you know, he belongs in that space. We've watched, uh, you know, Carlos Proches and, uh, Ian Gary, we've seen these guys who are highly visible, um, for whatever reason, but they've been in big spots, but you have this other guy who's sitting and I'm not sure if the UFC, UFC rankings,

I think it's just below number 10, but he's fighting Gilbert Burns with a chance to kind of leapfrog in there. And he's been just on a tear, including his last fight against Neil Magny, which, you know, again, this guy's kind of a gatekeeper, but the way he took him out, which, you know, he's, he's on the fence. it's, it's, it's at a stalemate. He turns around, boom, hits him with an elbow and just jumps on him and like wails on him. And he's like, whoa, that was out of nowhere. He should be on your radar. And that, that class being as stacked as it is, you know, just that top 10 being,

I think it's historically stacked. I think that you could look at that division, where they are right now, all the guys that make up that division and be like, this has to be one of the best top tens we've ever seen. You know, where it's just any, any iteration of this is good. And this guy hasn't even cracked in there yet at 25 years old, undefeated 17 and O and ton of

charisma too, he doesn't speak English. He speaks Spanish, but like he's, he's, he's not a guy who's worried about the translation, he's going to still be very colorful and the translation is going to come back to you. It's going to be, he's going to be saying something to you. Um, I think he's got a ton of upside, man. And I think this could be a big moment for him. It's just a shame.

I think that if people don't tune in, cause it's an apex card that they'll miss it. But I think that this is a dude to really be watching right now. Uh, Paul Craig is in the call main event. He is fighting Rodolfo Bellotto. He's on the three fights skid. He has a toll to Sangamalata, our good friend over at the sun in the UK, that this is the last fight in his contract. So big crossroads moment for Paul Craig, a legend of the Scottish scene.

It is on Saturday night, ladies and gentlemen, Ben, you must be buzzing for this misfits card of, of checked out the the old Yahoo sports thing and apparently you're doing the live blog, I heard that you can't wait for Darren Stewart v Darren Taylor. Is that correct? I, to be honest with you, I'm, I've kind of gotten myself to a point where I'm more excited to see what this, uh, heavyweight survivor tag team match is like. Just because I was watching it, checking out their socials. Uh, they, the way they decided who was going to start in the ring with this heavyweight tag team thing is with a game of rock paper scissors.

Wow. So right away you have my attention. I am interested. Uh, so yeah, I'm looking, that thing is starting. I think it started here just a few minutes ago. So I'm looking forward to pulling that one up and spending an afternoon watching that and just seeing, uh, what the heck happens. I'd like that.

I, I am looking forward to Freddie first love. I heard he's on this card. First of all, he it's Freddie free love. And he goes by tempo arts, right? Yes. Is a, it's definitely a downgrade. I don't, if your name was, if your real name was Freddie free love, free with that, just go with that as your name.

I was so close. I was so close on that one. It's show before we go Denver nuggets, man. I mean, your back baby. Yoke it's going to be tough. That's all I got. It's going to be tough, but, uh, but Hey, they've got a lot of metal. Even if they lose at this point, I mean, forcing a game seven and the circumstances

that they're in, it's been a lot of fun. Very nerve wracking, but fun. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I stayed up. Um, as I know you were the first to tweet. He's texting me. It's like, I was 11 30 my time. So it's like 4 30 AM. His time. He's texting me. It's like, I was 11 30 my time. So it's like 4 30 AM his time.

He's texting me after the nuggets went. That was crazy. Well done, Chuck. Someday Ben, I will embrace Hucky in this similar way. As I told you, it's just too much. All he wants from you right now is for you to hate the Las Vegas team. I noticed that Ben has a very big disdain. Yeah, they're out.

Which makes me feel conflicted because I really do enjoy hating them. The Vegas Golden Knights, they're out, which makes me feel conflicted because I really do enjoy hating the nights of the Vegas golden nights. They're bad people. Um, Kevin Aulie is a big fan of the night. He is. They're, they're, they're awful. I'm glad that they're out of the playoffs, but I'm also sad because I really did enjoy hating them, but, uh, now I'm all in for the Edmonton Oilers. Same here.

I hate the Dallas stars, but anyway, well, that's a different discussion. I take them out. That's all I want. I just need to move to America. It's a, it's meant to be great over there. Um, can't wait to one day. Explore. Moving on.

Wait a few years, wait a couple of years before you. Well, listen, crackheads, we love you. Uh, Oh, Oh, Jesus Christ. Sorry. I shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain. Super chats. Go ahead. Is Ariel paying you enough, Petey? Get a car. Get a new car. That's not really how I operate.

He's paying me lots. I just spend it all on fancy shoes. Nice. Track suits. Yeah. Valour tracksuits and shit like that. I like I'm a firm believer in like wait till the car completely fucking dies before you get a new one. My last car was a Ford Focus. I wrote it off on the freeway after going up the mountains

to take a picture of a fuck the Mayweathers piece of graffiti. I remember I sent it to you, Chuck. Went to take it. I was on the way home. I was going probably about 120 kilometers in my focus. Next of all, I look in the window and there's my wheel beside me. And I'm like, whoa, this isn't good. The car spins, spins.

There's a little flippy. I kind of know, sorry, it's spinning. And I'm looking at the traffic coming towards me. So I'm spinning around. I'm looking at the traffic coming towards me. I'm like, oh, I'm going to fucking die. This is shit, you know? And then I just didn't die.

Got out of the car and start laughing like the Joker. I remember someone stopping like this car is coming and someone pulls in like, Holy shit, are you all right? And I was like, yeah, I don't know how, but I'm absolutely fine. So yeah, waited for a while, got a car, but if I really wants to buy me a new car, sure. Like, I mean, we're good friends. I love him.

Like if he loved me, I think he'd buy me a car. Then you see how American PC really is. He's a product of the great depression. Even as an Irishman, it's crazy. He won't buy anything new. Where's everything out. Got canned goods from like the eighties in his cupboard. Is looking certainly true.

Fucking hell. Jordan, what else we got, baby? In the name of Peezy, the Ben and Holy Chuck. In the name of... Prayers. Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah.

I know prayers. Hail Mary. Yeah. Our Father, another classic of the genre. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's up the genre. Um, yeah. Yeah. That's up there.

That's a hit. I think last time we get DDP at dog odds, he soaps Hamza. Ooh, imagine he's fucking subs. Um, I think that's the least likely if I'm being completely honest, Ben. Yeah. And I'm, if you, if you believe in that, I bet you can get pretty, pretty good odds on DDP via submission over Homs. That's a jump on it right away.

I mean, if you break some, if you break some down the stretch and, uh, Shumai just wants out of there, maybe that's what it happens. He just taps the strikes or taps the pure exhaustion. I am done. Fuck this. Just fuck this shit, man. We got anything else there Jordan? Or is that all of them?

Oh, Pete. Whoa. Pizzi. Oh shit.. Whoa. Peezy. Oh shit. 50 books. Brad Freeman. Maybe I can buy a new car. Hang on. Peezy.

Love you, bro. I could listen to you for an hour. Well, that's all you're getting buddy. So I'm in joking. I'm joking. What do you say? I didn't read the rest of it. Let me read the rest of it, Jordan.

Why are you trying to take me away from my people? Keep up the great work fellas. So that was for all of you. You don't the rest of it, Jordan. Why are you trying to take me away from my people? Keep up the great work, fellas. So that was correct for all of you. You don't know how much I rely on these fucking geniuses. I just come in here with a big fat shiny face and I go, hey, Ben, what you think? Hey, Chuck, what do you think about this?

Then I read my dreams and then we all have a fucking lovely day. Look at Ben. He can't wait to watch Misfits. He's going PC, fucking end this, man. That's fucking the heavy weights. I gotta get over there. Jones, Jones, Jones.

We'll be back on Friday. Chuck is, Chuck is going to be away on Friday. Unfortunately. Yeah. I haven't asked Ben yet, but hopefully he'll still be here. We're good. We'll get to that during the week. Um, we love you very much crack heads.

Uh, enjoy Misfits as much as Ben will, uh, enjoy Michael Morales at the electrifying apex and we will see you next week. Ari Lawani Show Monday. The Crack will be on Friday as always. We love you very much. Big Kisses. Mwah!