The Ariel Helwani Show - The Craic: Jon Jones’ bizarre media-day, ‘A**hole’ Tom Aspinall, Tyson vs. Paul presser

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

Chuck Mindenhall returns to The Craic to discuss a bizarre UFC 309 media day from Jon Jones and to look forward to a blockbuster weekend of combat sports.Petesy and Chuck try to wrap their heads around Jones’s comments on Tom Aspinall, the size difference he cites while also calling for bouts with light-heavyweights Alex Pereira and Jamahal Hill and him being complicit in the fight week focus not being on Stipe Miocic (2:27).The lads also give their thoughts on Tyson vs. Paul and how Paul’s promotion of Amanda Serrano has some Irish pundits sweating (48:56).

Welcome back to The Crack, you beautiful crackheads. It is Pizzi Carol, as you know and you love. Last week, we had this big chat about Jon Jones and his interview with Kevin Aioli. And what did we say? Both, I mean, all three of me, Chuck, and Shaheen were like, this story is going to dominate Fight Week, and here we are again. Jon Jones' media day, very intriguing. We had, of course, Tom Aspinall setting some bait earlier in the week which

seemed to be a reaction to this uh interview with iola that jones did it's ufc 309 fight week baby it is jake paul and mike tyson fight week we have a lot to talk about and i will say thank you before we even start to do great on air jordan Jordan in the back. And we even have Mysterious Frank here, would you believe it? We've got all the stars aligned for the crack today. Shaheen Alshadi, who was fantastic on the show last week, is having a well-earned day off this week. But you will be thrilled to know that the man in the hat, the legendary feature writer of Uncrowned, one of our chief writers over there, Chuck Mendenhall, back in the house and we have a lot to unpack today. Chuck Mendenhall, how are you doing my friend?

You know, Pete, I actually peeled off a couple of Benjamins. That's why he has that day off. I wanted this spot to myself, you know, more, more canvas for me, more talking time, all that. So I'm happy to be back, man. I feel, I'm starting to feel like a regular. I think I'm your first regular. Am I not?

This is like the third time I've been on the show. This is it. I always hear Joe Rogan talking about becoming a paid regular at the Comedy Cellar. This is effectively what's happening to you. Except for the paid. Like, we just take that word out. Yeah. That's it.

Just a regular. All right, let's not get crazy here. You like that I'm marking the occasion for the Madison Square Garden card with my Knicks hat on? So is that what that's about? I thought you were trying to butter up the boss over here. I hear they're doing terribly. I'm not supporting no team that can't win.

You know what I mean? On Air Jordan's probably freaking out behind the scenes with us slagging his beautiful Knicks. But what can you do? Well, root for the Nuggets. That's what you do. That's your team. I mean, it's a safe bet. It's a safe bet.

But let's get into it, man, because last week we had a long conversation about Jones saying Aspinall didn't deserve the shot after the Stipe fight. We figured it would dominate fight week. Of course, immediately after the Ioli interview, Aspinall setting sail for the Big Apple. And he puts out a vlog calling this fight, I believe, the most disputed title. As we can see, the great on Air Jordan showing us here. This is the most disputed title you can possibly get, said Tom Aspinall in his video blog. We even saw him buying a duck toy for a canine friend of his

and him posting that on social media. And, of course, the duck thing has been everywhere this week. I guess my first question is, ahead of this, what should be a massive fight, right, Jon Jones and Steve Amiojic, it is, in fact, as we said, Tom Aspinall v. Jones is dominating the narrative are you surprised not surprised but it is a little counterintuitive like you know the ufc's uh kind of plan on this

was legacy versus legacy goat versus goat but they're really selling john jones is the baddest man on the planet right like they're trying to make us believe and you think about like just a casual observer in this particular thing this is more complicated than like a boxing type of event right because we're talking about the baddest man on the planet john jones this guy hasn't lost in 16 years you know um he's been on top this whole time yet what dominates is that he doesn't want to fight the guy the other guy who has the belt we're all Rhodes lead that to me is a very strange setup especially because I get the sense and sometimes you you feel a little weird when you say a guy's ducking somebody but I don't feel like there's any kind of like I don't feel like there's any controversy in saying that I think that that's what this looks like he doesn't

want to fight regardless if you want to call it ducking and you want to use that connotation or if you're just saying like he has no interest however you want to say it. But it's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous setup for a fight. And then you get poor Stipe Miocic, who's the other side of this equation, who's just kind of chopped liver over there. You know what I mean? In this whole situation, take the gloves. I know the boys in the back were talking about the whole glove situation that's been going on this week. Which one's the bigger circus atmosphere at this point?

Is it Mike Tyson's fight with Jake Paul, or is it this thing? I feel like they're kind of running neck and neck right now yeah i mean it is insane all of the things that are happening and i think it's the really the exclamation point of all this stuff has been john jones's media day yesterday and i hadn't watched the whole thing right um i was running around all day yesterday. And I was kind of seeing these tidbits coming through from this. And honestly, I was seeing different bits of it. And in my head, I was going back and forth with Ariel Helwani's theory in the back of my mind.

And we'll be talking about Ariel later in his press conference appearance last night. But as I was reading some of the stuff and we'll go through it all don't worry we will meticulously go through some of the the quotables from this situation but i found myself wondering like is he is this a troll because some of the stuff was so ridiculous and as i said we'll get into it but before we get into it are you in the same situation where when this stuff was coming through you're like okay he's definitely pulling our leg now and then as i watched the whole thing, I was like, I don't think he is now, actually.

Has he ever had this kind of sense of humor or this kind of elevated sense of how to promote? Like, this to me seems like a – it's a stretch to say this. This is like – we're almost like this Andy Kaufman territory where, like, oh, he's got this scheme he wants to play. I would love it. It would be this crazy wrinkle to a guy who I think has been very predictable since he's been a young kid, really. I mean, we've seen his hypocrisies. We've went through all this stuff, like all of his many things that he's gone through.

But the one thing he hasn't been is a guy who sees the game on a bigger level like that. It's usually what he's telling you is usually his version of the truth. And he's, it's usually a very stubborn truth that he's dealing with. And I feel like that's where he's at. I'd be shocked if he's trolling it or if he, let's say that he's not trolling it this whole way, but he keeps saying, hearing guys like us say, well, it could be a troll job. And then he's like, you know what? That's a good idea. I'm going to pretend that it was, you know, I mean, who knows, but whatever the case is, if he goes that route, I would love it, man. I would love it. The only thing you want to see, right? Like this is, it's like, there's a partition between the guy that we think is his biggest threat and him.

And he has a guy that he has to get through for that to even happen. All we want to see is his attitudes, like him saying like, yeah, bring it on. Right. That's all we want to see. We want to see him say that to Tom Aspinall. It's very anticlimactic. It's his attitude, like him saying, yeah, bring it on. That's all we want to see. We want to see him say that to Tom Aspinall. It's very anticlimactic. It's very frustrating when a champion is trying to dictate terms, if that's what's really happening. If he's trying to dictate terms for something the UFC set up in its structure, sold events as title fights for Aspinall,

and put the situation together that we're at now, only to have the guys saying, like, nah, I'm not interested. I mean, it's just, it's a very strange look. I feel like the UFC is, if anybody should be upset, it should be the UFC with John Jones. This could be a negotiation thing. Who knows? Who knows what's going on?

But I think half the drama was going to come down to what is said on the microphone afterward, right? John Jones, presumably he wins. What is said afterwards? then i guess we'll get all of our uh all of our answers but that's a roundabout way of saying if this is a troll job i would think this is a masterful sort of situation i just have never seen evidence that john jones operates that way yeah i agree with you and look we may as well get into some of the comments yesterday like we're not going to go through everything we'll go through the things particularly pertaining to

the aspen situation um the first time he's asked about it yesterday chuck um they kind of said what what do you what do you think is happening here like the way it was put to him was and the the the person asking the question is accurate that a lot of times in John's career, he's facing someone, he beats them. And then immediately it's like, well, what about this guy? And I do agree that has happened. I know it's happened for sure. But what he said to this when he was asked, why do you think this reoccurring theme keeps happening where guys are like, oh,'s see how he does about against this guy he said being so good at what i do it's almost never enough and that right on the face of it is quite an arrogant thing to say but when you consider who is saying it and i don't think

any of us are arguing that john jones one of the greatest fighters has ever lived like i think gsp or him that's most people's pick for that. And I think people would argue that Jones may be more very likely more spectacular than GSP, but of course he has a few asterisks there as well that he has to deal with. But is he right?

Is there an element to that? This guy is so good that we are constantly chasing down who will eventually topple him. Yeah, there's an element of truth to that. I mean, to stay on top regardless. And I wrote a piece this week basically where I talked to some people. And you're trying to just kind of identify the complex nature of his legacy

and him as a fighter. And it's a very weird thing, man. You get caught in the weeds a lot. And people generally don't want to celebrate him in the way that he wants to celebrate himself and that's like a it's a very strange dynamic usually if you have a guy who's basically like right the michael jordan of your sport or muhammad ali you know whatever you want to call if they're bragging or if they're saying it's it's true they can back it up and i and it's not like Jon Jones can't do that, but there have been, you know, it's a career that every time something good happens,

something bad happens. It's been a balancing act for him. It's mostly, most of the stuff that happens to him is outside of the cage, right? But we have seen the Dominic Reyes fight, for instance, where you're like, well, I mean, I would guess that half the public watching that fight thought Dominic Reyes won that fight.

That's kind of weird because now you're talking about somebody who actually kind of did beat him at one point. It didn't happen. It didn't go down that way. But you had a very close Tiago Santos. Yeah, was that Tiago Santos? Was that the fight? He had a very close fight there. It's just I think that his invincibility or this sheen of invincibility that he wants to kind of present might strike it might be more um vulnerable than we like where he's at right now might seem more vulnerable than he understands i

guess maybe he sees himself that way but i think most of us and i i would guess the odds makers would agree with this if he were to fight you know next month or whatever it is, Tom Aspinall, I'm thinking he must... Right, don't you think he'd be the underdog? Maybe a slight underdog, but he would probably be the underdog in that fight. And I think that that's where there's a little bit of a divide, right? Like with the perception of him into this fight and the perception he has of himself.

That just goes into the subtext of this whole event. Yeah. No, I agree completely with what you're saying um we mentioned the duck theme that is running throughout the week earlier and when john has asked specifically about the duck thing uh the great on air jordan is showing this uh now to all the great crackheads he said you can't duck a guy you are never scheduled to fight now i don't agree with that i i don't i i can't get my head around how anyone would agree with that because i feel at the point that you've scheduled to fight someone and you don't show up that's a lot more egregious than

just refusing to fight them in the first place are you with me on this like i don't think i don't think that is a necessary element to someone ducking someone for them to have a fight schedule with them this whole thing is so weird but i mean this is the clearest case of ducking i you know and it's it's crazy because you hate to say this like would you say that john jones is afraid i don't think he's afraid either i think he just looks at something's like you know what man it's in my power to protect what I think is whatever it is. So he sees it from a different point of view. But it's just this whole thing has gotten – it's just bizarre.

And that's why I'm like now half the drama for me is like, how does this play out if he wins? How does this play out? This becomes like – and I don't mind this. I don't mind there being some dissension. But I do think that Dana White, who else is going to talk sense into a guy like you know like this he's been hyping him all year why are we hyping him why are we diminishing the likes of say alex perera who's had a ridiculous year or uh even tom aspinall who i think they should be behind marketing at this point they should be marketing him because he has done incredible

things you know with the with all finishes and everything he's doing. It's crazy, right? It's kind of crazy that they've kind of given Jon Jones the shine through this whole process, and yet now he's not interested in fulfilling basically what he's doing. Is it charades? If you're going through and you're having an interim title, that's an appointment. having an interim title That's an appointment I'm sorry, that's an appointment That guy now has a promise ring

This is all leading to something, a unification That was only pushed off because of an injury And a stubbornness to have a legacy It's an absurd premise But that's what it is You can't say that it was all meaningless That everybody put themselves on hold Or whatever it is through this process You know what i mean like it's it's a very strange situation but

i just i love the fact i called the piece the uh the elephant in the garden because i love the fact that hovering over all of this is aspinall right i just think that that's the best part of this whole situation is that he's right there being an asshole. Yeah. Tom Assel is such an asshole. But I think that's the thing I can't really, I can't get my head around is that like, when you wear the belt,

like everybody knows what that means. Yeah. Like everyone has said this, like in the history of the fight game, you ask any guy who's just become a champion in their first fight when they're defending that belt,

and you say to them, well, what's different? Nearly every time they will say to you, I used to be the hunter and now I'm the hunter. Right. You know, people are coming after me. People want this thing that's around my waist, and they are effectively climbing a ladder to get to the top of the ladder which is the champion and we know aspinall's done that but then he says at another point i get that some people want to see me

challenged is that not what sport is like i mean the idea that some people might want to see you challenged like that's what sport is the whole thing it's it's it doesn't add up like and the piece i was talking about that i was working on this is one of the the key things you kind of contemplate because you take a guy and i you take muhammad albi because he's a um you know kind of a generational guy from a different era who still lives through today right like he's actually the definition when people talk about legacy they talk about a guy like him very complicated but it all goes into his legacy one of the big things that goes into his legacy is the risk that he took continuously he put himself in vulnerable positions um the rumble in the jungle is the greatest example of this i mean

everybody thought george form was going to kill him, you know, like that he was, uh, that's the closest equivalent you can find. I don't know, maybe the Daniel Cormier situation like that rivalry was the closest we came to somebody like saying like, that guy has a chance to beat Jon Jones. Like, I really believe this, you know, and I thought that that was, that's why it was so compelling. It was like one of the greatest fights the UFC had had, um had up to that point. But when you have guys coming up, it's not a tailored situation. You have guys that are just like Tom Aspinall, who's leaving a trail of death centrally behind him. And in my mind, way bigger competition than what Jon Jones was facing when he got his title shot. You got to fight him. I mean, it's just how it works. That's how the perception of the game works. That's how it's set up. The model works this way. You don't reinvent it just because you feel like now you're beyond reach.

You've now hit some kind of halcyon legacy status where you get to pick and choose. It doesn't work that way, man. It never has. No, absolutely. And look, we better get into one of the biggest headlines that was taken from this extremely entertaining uh 24 minutes or so or whatever it was with john him speaking so

eloquently i thought as well yeah like in a very calm way going through this what you just described as like his reimagined version of being a champion which i completely agree with because especially having made the choice to go from light heavyweight yeah to heavyweight which we all know operates in a mode in which you can have a large disparity between weights like we've seen this historically like brock lesnar was cutting weight to make 265 mark hunt shane carwin you name it there was a lot of these guys like they were at the very maximum you can be for a heavyweight um he kind of said like you know oh we finally have a guy that's 30 pounds heavier than me and and seven years younger than me and last night i was like hang on a second and i went back and i looked at the Shogun fight when he became the champion. And look, the size difference between him and Shogun.

And Shogun, never a man known for his aesthetic prowess. He was a brilliant fighter, a beautiful fighter to watch. But not a man you'd think that would put a lot of time in, in terms of being worried about how people would look. And Jones is just this hybrid athlete at the time. He is towering above the guy. It's a massive weight difference. And it's literally exactly a seven-year age gap. Now, I know that Jones is 23 and Shogun is 30.

It's a bit of a different stipulation. But I will say as well that when you look at the history of heavyweight champions, they are much older guys usually. Tom would be a very young heavyweight champion in comparison to the guys that we've seen over the years. But the more I even think about

this, has John not had a physical advantage over nearly every guy he's fought? Up until he went to heavyweight and he fought the Gan who again fantastic athlete but it just I can't make sense of this I'm trying to look at what he's saying

and trying to pick out like oh maybe he means this maybe he means that and when he said this 30 pounds heavier and 7 years younger thing I'm like it doesn't make sense it's a lot of you in his career you go back and you watch but I can it's just it's a lot of you in this career i wouldn't bet you know you go back and you watch any but i can remember being cage side for a lot of these you know the stephen bonner fight at the time and stephen bonner was uh

you know obviously the griffin fight like the one that put everything on the map they were two big dudes and you're like but griffin was a little bit bigger in terms of his height i remember when they fought you you know, when Jones fought Bonner, just how much bigger he was. And then I was in San Diego, too, when he fought Matt Yashanko, the janitor. The janitor. Yeah, he was like a big, thick dude, man, like Belarus, you know, like just a big guy who showed up probably 20 pounds bigger than the weight,

whatever he got to. And he was dwarfed in there, man. I mean, like just John Jones, just, you know, with that reach and just that long torso, you know what I mean? Like in his legs, I was just like, he was, he looked Herculean in that. And I remember thinking like, he's going to have this advantage as long as he stays. If you recall, when they, when they, the-up to ufc 165 the whole promo and everybody was making fun of this at the time was we finally found his match alex gustafson has this

you know he's like he's six foot whatever and they were like he's just he's taller actually than john jones and the reach is not that much different you know that sort of thing and honestly that fight played out very interesting like the very first one because maybe some of those things weren't to his advantage you know what i mean like uh he got knocked down in that fight he bled um taken down you know i mean things like that i was like this was this was a different thing but he has had a size advantage to your point over just about everybody just about everybody and you weren't you pointing this out like if he fights aspinall what is going to be the like what, what is the actual difference here?

Like, aren't they? Look at this. Jordan just pulls up the tail of the tail. Look at this. There we go. Now, this is why we have good producers. But, like, look at that. I mean, they're not really.

It's not that big. So, you know what I mean? It's like he acts like he would be, like, thrown in against a Colossus. It's like, well, dude, I mean, you guys are pretty pretty even here you're you're a bit of a unit yourself he weighed in this is it he weighed in against ghana 248 tom's last weigh-in was 251 yeah that's three pounds like that in the world of heavyweight that is as close as against we like i mean it's a plate of linguine you know and shrimp you know that's all that is it's just very very strange um yeah i mean i pointed out that and i had a lot of people come back to me like tom cuts from 280 i'm like i don't know

where you're getting this information from you know and john mentioned it will be interesting to see john on the scales uh tomorrow morning because he's saying he was eating a big breakfast to get to 235 obviously he was a lot heavier than that when he fought gan but at the same time i feel like we're losing track of what we're talking about when we're doing this like i've lost my mind thinking about these weights forgetting that like no you opted to go to this division where there is a massive disparity in weight and built himself for years you know what i'm saying like it was like one of the most gradual it was you know like gsp back in the day was like i cannot just move up a weight you know i need to build muscle you know remember this whole thing and you're like well do it you know like take the time to do it well john j Jon Jones did that. He took a lot of time building his body

up to this weight. It was shocking in a weird way when he fought Cyril Gaughan just to see how big he really was. To see him after three years to come in there and be as big as he was, he's a big dude, man.

He's a big dude. I bet you anything, if he ever does like steve is a big guy right he's not like the he's not like as huge as some of the um some of these guys but john's probably going to have a physical advantage on him like i think that when you when they go like when they stand next to each other you'll john will still look bigger than him you know what i mean like he'll he'll be bigger we have the taylor type air. Look at this on our Jordan. Reach a bit better than Aspinall, so it has to be said, Stipe. But it's about 6'4".

And look, I saw a picture of Stipe this week. He does actually look in shape. He looks in really good shape, to be fair to him. Are we sleeping on him? We said this last time, and here we go again. It's like you just keep talking around him as if he's not the real opponent in there. I could understand why Stipe would be upset about this,

but I also could understand why it actually plays into his hands. He doesn't like all this talk and stuff. He doesn't want to beef it up like that. He's a very directly sport athlete. You're talking about Stipe? Yes. This is great for him. There's no attention on him.

He's like, yeah, this is perfect. I get to fight in Madison Square Garden without having to promote anything. Everybody's just looking right by me. Yeah. We'll get onto the Pereira and Jamal Hill shouts from Jones now in a second. But I think one of the biggest tales in this media day was 14 minutes in, Jones says he wishes all of the great things for Tom. This is nothing personal.

This is so bizarre, right? He says this and you're like, yeah, fair play, right? This is, you know, let's draw a line in the sand here. Five minutes later, no, like five minutes later, he says he's an asshole. And he doesn't want to do business. Well, here's the quote, the great on air, Jordan. If I'm being completely honest, Tom has been such an asshole that I don't want to do business with him. Here's the quote of the great Honour Jordan. If I'm being completely honest, Tom is being such an asshole that I don't want to do business with him.

I can understand that, man. He lifts his pinky when he drinks his tea. What an asshole. I mean, look, I mean, I think I'm not going to debate whether he is an asshole or not. I definitely don't think he is. But does that what do you think that's coming from?

I think he went in to be like i'm not going to get personal here and even though tom like he's not being fed quotes from tom saying like he said he's gonna knock you out nothing like that people are just constantly asking him this because this has turned into the story of the week and he eventually goes i think he's an asshole um did you think this was a bit telling in terms of his state of mind? Well, I think it's actually, what it is, is a microcosm of Jon Jones in general, right? Like, he's done this this whole time. There was that

famous clip, right? Where they're having basically a civil conversation between him and Daniel Cormier, and as soon as they went to a conversation, they thought that the cameras were not hot. He turns into, like, you know, like the the conversation you're like what it was the first time we'd ever seen john jones like that and this was almost like

a microcosmic version of that right like you're you're looking at something that's um you know you're looking at something where you're he says one thing it's out the window and he says something else i mean this has kind of been par for the course for john jones even going back to the rashad relationship the whole betrayals and stuff like that one minute buddies next minute no man you know whatever it's just i feel like this is kind of who john jones is isn't it yeah it's um it's very strange i looked at again the perera and jamal things and look i i get it from the point of view and I agree with New York Rick when he said this I think Pereira is like before this week anyway when John Jones turned the Aspinall fight into this massive conversation that is has really been the talk of fight week

as we've said multiple times now I think he's added so much more like it's added so much more kind of want from the fan base now to see this because it's become this talking point but i do understand that perera is a massive fight it's a massive massive fight but when you're using the logic of oh he's too big for me when it comes to aspinal i'm not seeing that is exactly the same thing when it comes to perera the light heavyweight champion or jamal hill it's beggar's belief to me it's so hard to get my head around what the hell was going on here the same thing when it comes to Pereira, the Lloyd heavyweight champion, or Jamal Hill. It's beggar's belief to me. It's so hard to get my head around what the hell was going on there.

I've lost my mind. Look at me. Look at me, crackheads. I'm a shadow of myself. Yeah. An articulate shadow. I like that, though. You're very good. You know, it's... I don't know how big Pereira would get, like, in terms of, like, his physical stature, but I do know, like, you think about that fight,

like if that's the consolation we get out of this, presuming Jon Jones wins, that there's some monkey wrench thrown into this whole situation with Stipe, but presuming he wins, that would be an enormous fight. I just wonder though, how does it work?

Like, you know, I would love to see that, just like you'd love to see the, you know, on an intrigue level and just like the, you know, this guy who, you're talking about the guy who would still be the goat and the consensus against the hottest guy going you know this that's that's good that would be a great setup but what happens because you're sort of like okay where's tom aspital through this process are you stripping john jones is this even a uh a title fight at this point like i don't know how you could proceed i don't know how you could actually push off the guy who has the interim titles already defended i just don't

know how you can do that i would love to see the fight but if you had the druthers and if you're doing what's right you know what i mean like you got to go aspinall first you know even if it was aspinall pereira we'll do that one we've talked about that one too like maybe that's how they solve it but as long as jones has to be willing to actually take the fight at some point you know what i mean but i don't know how you can just push aspin all aside i don't think that you can yeah it's i agree with what you're saying the only way this makes sense to me and i think it would be so anticlimactic if if he vacated the title to fight perira and then the heavyweight division just carries on with Aspinall not given the opportunity to beat Jones,

I think at this point that would be so... It would be shit for the heavyweight division, right? You want to know who the best guy is. And this is something we'll get to further down the line. I don't like the fact that us like and this is something we'll get to further down the line i don't like the fact that us pointing out this situation which should be the way this is right like the interim champion is there you have the belt we need to unify these title that seems to be lost on a lot of people i feel like people think we're disrespecting john jones he said at one point, he said like, I'm my own biggest cheerleader.

I'm like, are you crazy? We think you're amazing. Like, as you said, he's a very controversial guy. Like he has given us plenty of reasons to be,

say all kinds of things about Jones. But at the end of the day, you ask anyone anything about this sport, like this guy is mind blown. He's an incredible talent. And the idea that it's crazy for us to see him want to see him challenged to me, I just can't get my head around it.

Um, is that sitting a bit weird with you as well? That he seems to think that we've turned our back on him, that we are casting aspersions on, on the great John Jones, which I absolutely don't feel. Isn't it a testament to somebody's greatness, established greatness that we're like,

we're demanding that he has to fight somebody who can challenge him? I feel like just inherent to this whole conversation, you're just like, well, this guy is so good for so long. You just want to see somebody against him that makes sense in terms of casting doubt over the situation, over the outcome. Somebody who looks like they're going to go in there and actually take it to Jon Jones. That's why you do it. It's a testament to his greatness that anybody's demanding this. You know what I mean? They want to see it.

They want to see that. Now, I don't know why this is so lost on him, but if he goes in, maybe just, I don't know what his mindset is. It's been so solid, ultimately, in the ring for so long. But if he doesn't think he can beat Aspinall, it's kind of crazy. His mindset should be like, I can beat anybody. You know what I mean? It's an insane thing to be like, I'm not sure I can beat that guy. And I don't want to risk it. I don't want to risk losing. It's just that it doesn't add up. So I'm like, in my mind,

you know, in my mind, that's what that we're basically saying saying you're great this whole time. We've been saying it. They use certain words for John Joe. At least I've heard some people using these words. But there is somewhat, not just, it's something that transcends ego that's like socio-something. That sometimes shows up in these situations where you're like, this just doesn't make sense, but it's like he's operating on a level that you're just like, I'm not sure that's the perception, or I'm not sure that's the truth, you know what I mean? And this is just another

one of those things. Look, we mentioned Stipe earlier, and I do feel bad that this has happened, but I also knew it was going to happen as soon as Jones put out the Ioli interview. I think it's exploded in a way that I didn't anticipate. You know, like, to be this forthright with, like, I have no interest in this guy.

Like, Tom is there. That's the, that's great. The backup, backup fighter, right? Like it's just so stupid. I asked him by the way,

and this, and this piece, I spoke to, um, you know, Brandon Gibson, who's been with Jones for over a decade. Yeah.

He's, he's been with him the whole way. Um, I asked him, I'm like, hypothetically, this, I talked to him like last Friday asked him, I'm like, hypothetically, I talked to him last Friday or whatever. I was like, hypothetically, something happens

to Stipe. What happens then? There's no way he takes this fight, right? There's no way. And he's like, well, listen, we were the guys who killed UFC 150. He kind of immediately brought that up because we didn't want to take a short notice fight with Chael Sonnen on short

notice, and he basically danced around a little bit and just said, I'll just say this, that John fights at his best when he's prepared. You know, he needs to be prepared for this. I mean, there's no way he's going to take this fight, you know what I mean? Like, that's why I was like,

it's like charades, right? Like, why is Aspinall there? I don't know if, like, it's like charades. Why is Aspinall there? I don't know if something happened to Jones. Would Miocic do it? He might. I don't know. I think he would. I think he might.

But I don't think there's any scenario where Jon Jones stays on that card. Do you know what? I think all of this stuff makes me think that he might. Like all of this noise now, right? Like everyone's saying, oh, you wouldn't possibly do it. I think he's crazy and competitive enough. Like if something went terribly wrong with Stipe, I think this fire that's being fueled a lot by himself,

like I think he might actually do it. And maybe I've just driven myself crazy. Yeah, you're just driving yourself crazy. I don't know what the odds on that would be, but it wouldn't be good. That's a long shot you're talking about right there. It is. It would be stunning, though.

I would have to say this would be the most compelling thing that Jon Jones has done in his whole career. If he did that, you know what I mean? And here we are Thursday, especially now, right? You're within two days of the fight. If that happened, I'd just be like, this is crazy. Wouldn't your interest just shoot through the roof? You'd be like, this is the craziest thing that's ever happened in his career, by far.

It would be insane. I do think Stipe would be okay, though. I am aware that when I bring up this next point, that we have now done two back-to-back shows on john's hospital i was tweeting about that earlier i was like man it's crazy that he shows up once every couple of years essentially like on average these days and and by the end of that fight week you're like oh man i need a cigarette that was a that was a long john jones fight week you know what i mean like you just talk so much about it, it gets exhausting.

Yeah, yeah. And we will definitely do that. He said at one point, how rude is it for us just to look past Stipe? And I was thinking, are you taking no responsibility for how we got here? He could have just said to Kevin Aioli, look, I'm focused on Steve Bamiotis. He's one of the best fighters

in the world. That's all it is. It's an approach. I need to give him a full attention. Change of wording. We don't have any of this conversation, right?

Yeah. We can have that conversation at the press conferences if I'm lucky enough to beat this legend. Of course, I'm aware of the situation with Aspinall.

He doesn't even have to say this much. I've gone way over the top. He could have just said, look, I've got Steve Bamiotis at Madison Square Garden. This is the biggest fight doesn't even have to say this much I've gone way over the top he could have just said look I've got Stipe at Madison Square Garden it's the biggest fight of my life this is the guy I've been chasing this is the guy that will legitimize me as a heavyweight champion and move on like I think he has to take some responsibility for Stipe not being the focus of our attention yeah I mean I really get the sense that they I really get the

sense they hadn't put a lot of forethought into this. Like, I think that they were sort of isolated. They went back to Greg Jackson's old gym. The first one he had on a coma, um, which, and basically had like an exclusive sealed off camp,

um, with Joseph Parker, I think was like, you know, the boxer, uh, they had like Gable Stevenson. They had a bunch of people.

They're taking it seriously. They're taking it as seriously as you can take a fight. I think he's going to be fully prepared once he steps in there. But yeah, man, I don't even know what we were talking about. I just got lost in that whole thing. We're in the steep. I was saying, shouldn't he take responsibility for it? And I think he sealed off.

I don't think that they had formulated any kind of like attack on this because which is odd right like you think that you're you for sure are going to be talking especially he's a he's a backup fighter he's weighing in all this stuff you think for sure you're going to encounter questions at every turn it just doesn't seem like they were prepared for it and you're right this could have all been solved all you had to do on the initial whatever the initial times he's speaking on it just say you know what i'm not going to talk about aspen all right now because i have a guy in front of me we'll we'll look at everything afterwards and see where we're at but that's not my concern right now he says that he's answered everybody's questions he doesn't really need to go beyond that he's he's he's brought this on himself with the way he's treated

it and been dismissive he makes you he forces you then to focus on the aspinal aspect more so than you would have you know um kind of like almost preemptively seeing like how he's about to get jilted not you know what i mean like all this stuff like you so you go through these types of conversations um but yeah he's fully complicit in in why we're looking past or why we're not focusing i guess as much attention on steve bay in your great article the elephant in the garden what a what a title again you're very good at this kind of stuff not usually not usually those somehow that one just uh came to me i don't know that was great um jones like the main kind of takeaway is like he doesn't think this affects his legacy like if he

beats aspen and in your article you make a point of saying like this has gotten to the stage now where it absolutely where it absolutely will if it doesn't happen um can you explain why like why is it like say if i feel like i'm hearing a lot online where people are like, oh, if he takes prayer, that's a huge fight. And it is, there's no doubt about that. But why is it, you know,

and we've talked about the interim title, we've talked about how we expect these things to be unified, but specifically for Jones, legacy. And this guy has one of the greatest careers of all time, which we've also said.

Why would this, avoiding Tom at this stage, affect his overall legacy? Because I think that legacy is a, that's what kind of what the, you know, the subtext of this piece was, was legacy is a complicated thing to talk about because a person's legacy a lot of times doesn't just confine itself to wins and losses. So much else comes into it. And I think one of those is risk aversion. One of those major factors is, you know, not being in the spirit of your day, essentially, like you're not taking the best challenges. We've seen in boxing at

nauseam where guys, they have an asterisk at the end of their career, but he didn't fight this guy or this guy, he just didn't fight him. I think that that's one of those things when you look back, you kind of crunch through the guys where he's at, you probably would do that, especially because it's become such a glaring issue. He's made it a glaring issue with this whole Aspinall thing. A guy wearing a belt coming after you and you're saying, no, thanks. I mean, that becomes part of his legacy. I was also trying to point out in this piece, even if you fought this, let's say he fought Aspinall, let's say he beats Miocic and fights

Aspinall and he loses. There's no shame in it it doesn't affect you that risk of like that means you took that chance it goes into your legacy just like with Muhammad Ali got crushed and remember a couple of very ill-advised fights in the 1980-81 time hard to watch and I'm like obviously you never want this to happen to anybody but that's not what people chose to remember about him so people do certainly it becomes part of the whole but there's just such a there's so much about him that you have to like consider and what you end up was he was a transcendent human being in the end you know like he just everything about him was like uh you know there was greatness all around him i think john jones is he's made his legacy more centric to the cage, obviously, because all this stuff on the outside of it has been more troublesome. But that's the one area we're missing, is the management of doubt, like the managements of risk and things like that. That's the one area. And I just think

that that really, especially given how big this event is, we'll stick with him. It's happening toward the end of his career, too. He's still there. He looked great. It's not like you've seen him fall off. The reason people want to see is because he is that great still. He still strikes that image. He still strikes fear into people. You just want to see the fight. But if he doesn't want to do it and people are throwing the ducking around, look at Emilianenko, right? One of the things about him was he had this ridiculous decade-long win streak, but there's all kinds of asterisks to it you know all kinds of asterisks about that era unfortunately you can't just easily say he's the greatest heavyweight of all time you just can't because there's just too much red tape and i think

that that's one of those things that he doesn't need to have it he doesn't have to like i honestly think his legacy is set but i think that that's what's missing it just go into his legacy especially imagine if he wins he just had his george foreman moment then right like he just went in there and beat the guy who was tailor-made to beat him i mean to me that's like that's why i think that that's that's why it'll affect his legacy ultimately yeah is there any part of you that think he's doubting himself like because because of this you know does not want this fight when it's the the guy everybody in the world is like this is the next guy like is there any part to you that like is he at this later age doubting his own physicality because he's making such a point of the size and and the speed and things like that

like i'm not i i like I have no reason to believe, like, based on the Gann performance, that this guy is anywhere near gone. But the way he's talking, if you're just like, well, he's adamant he's not fighting this guy. He's adamant it's a size issue.

And it's also Tom being an asshole. Let's not forget that. But, I mean, it does make you think, like... Is he... Like, he's asking for fights with Jamal Hill. Let's not forget that. But I mean, it does make you think like... Is he... He's asking for votes with Jamal Hill. That's ridiculous. There's a big difference there. That's no disrespect to Jamal. Where Tom's at and where Jamal is

is different places right now. I don't think... I don't know. I just don't think you can be that competitor. I don't think you can be that competitor if you have something in you that doesn't believe you'll beat the man. I can't really believe that he would look at Tom Aspinall in the end. If you're just breaking it down, you have to fight him.

You know what I mean? I just can't imagine that he's truly... Maybe he doesn't want to have to go the lengths he would do to beat him. Maybe he doesn't want to have to go the lengths he would do to beat him. Maybe he doesn't want to have to have camps like that. Maybe he recognizes that that's a very tough matchup. But ultimately, as a competitor, I don't think you are Jon Jones if you had that in you. I don't believe that, man. I think that if it came down to it and they said,

you have to fight, and he was in his crosshairs, Jon Jones is going to look at him as prey. He's going to be ready to go in there and beat his ass and I think that that's what's fun about it he's always had that man I don't think he's afraid I don't think that he really has that self-doubt I think he's and if he does he knows how to fix it he always has like he knows how to get into that mindset he needs to be in um so I just i would never subscribe to that i think he almost looks at it more like well why have a risk why have a risk when i've got this beautiful garden of you know my you know i put i put that we did a little round table today i was basically making that he's like

he's got it's like topiary he's got like these bushes he's made they're all perfectly like squirrels or whatever and he doesn't want anything ruining his garden you know it's kind of like that he doesn't want somebody to like trample through his garden at this point we uh we talked about the ufc how they might feel about it a video went viral certainly in my neck of the woods today of tnt sports all set up to do the interview adam catterall's in there ready to go. He walks in. He looks at Catterall. He was a show on TNT Sports with Aspinall, it should be said.

And, you know, he's been... I think Bisping even had a picture of them all out for dinner together, which probably didn't help him if Jones is after seeing that. But at the end of the day, this is a broadcast partner, right?

Yeah. I think it's a broadcast partner. This is like walking out of an ESPN interview. You know, it's like... Nick Diaz i don't know like yeah do you think that'll piss them off like like compounding everything like the fact that dana white's been saying for the last year he's gonna fight him he's gonna fight him don't worry we're gonna get this steep bay we need to do the steep bay fight and then we're doing that Dana's word being put in the mud here by Jones and then he's refusing

to talk to TNT I think that that's again, you're touching on something that I'm like, this is also the strangest thing if you've paid attention to Dana White, the year he's had going around basically on a pulpit talking about Jon Jones as the GOAT

this whole year. And it's just so like to get to this spot and now have almost like an insubordinate, you know, like champion who's like, I'm not doing what you guys want me to do. No way. I'm not doing that. And then showing up with things like that. It's so crazy because you're like, well, all they've done this year is stick by you. You know, all they've done is trumpeted you as the best and uh it'd be interesting to see kind of that side

of it too what does dana how does dana handle this we've seen him go back and forth with john jones like when many loves him and then you'll hit a stretch where he's like you know he doesn't like jones because jones wants more money or whatever it is they go through these snags then they solve it and then he loves them he's the greatest fighter ever you know where's that heading i don't know man i think that that's where we're gonna find out like that's gonna be something crazy but yeah walking out on that was pretty funny i was we were just before we started taping we were kind of laughing about this seeing that video because it's almost like he hears their accent he's like oh jesus no no no no i'm out of here it's almost

like he sits down he's like no i know what this is about i'm out of here but i think frank was the one who's saying like he had to have known or maybe it's jordan somebody said he had to have known what he's getting into right there so i don't know the real truth but that was that was a pretty funny clip there i don't think like adam was gonna like no put him on hot coals either like i think he would have been very down the middle about it you you know, honestly. You're saying we're going to find out. Are we going to fucking find out? I don't know. I'm just saying things.

I think we're headed straight for Ngannou Jones territory again. Where it's like, it's his fault. No, it's his fault. That's another interesting angle. We've already seen this once. I've meant to bring that up a long time ago. We've already seen one fight slip through the UFC's fingers that will probably never happen. So it just feels like you're getting consolations with everything that's happening. this consolation prize, ah, it's not what we wanted, you know, gone. You wanted to see him go against Nganou, right? And now we didn't get that, and now you have the other guy that has basically buried that

whole thing. He's like, he's here, he's now, and he's going through it again. But you're right, I think we could be setting up for a situation that's going to play out just like that. We really could be. Yeah, it's, I don't know.

I still have Jones winning this fight. I don't, I can't see him losing it. And honestly, like, as much as, like, yeah,

we probably, like, I can't see Jones winning. Sorry, I can't see Miocic winning the fight. Like, I have it for Jones. And I'm, really now, and it's kind of like the whole story of the fight. I have it for Jones. And really now, and it's kind of like the whole story of the fight

and how we're all looking past it. This press conference is going to be very, very interesting afterwards. Oh, yeah. Really, really interesting. That part of it is cool. And you know what? For all we're talking about,

and I've seen other people point this out, this has a big fight feel. I will say that. Even though we're looking past Miocic and there's like so much going on, doesn't it feel like a big fight week? Maybe it's the combination with the Tyson thing kind of going on. You're seeing him back in the news. You got these heavyweights both nights.

But it strikes me as like one of those old events when you had to wait weeks to get your next event, you know, that sort of thing. All of them felt like events back in the day. It kind of has that feel, which is fun. It's not the deepest card, but the top three or four fights, especially the top two, are really good. You've got Bo

Nickel kind of showcasing. I'm like, if you put that all together, it's a good card, but I really feel like the event itself feels big i don't know if you share that but i that's how it feels to me no absolutely i agree with you 100 and i do agree that like it's not not the deepest of cards but this whole thing has added so much to it like i think we're going to be reminded of Aldo and Mendes back in the day. Remember when Conor's just standing outside the cage, staring

in? That's Aspinall's role for this one. But yeah, it's a really, really interesting character. I'm looking forward to it. But before we get to that, and you just mentioned it, we have the carnival, the crazy, crazy circus

that is Toys and V. paul and we saw the press conference last night and my boy helwani absolutely killed it i mean he nailed the pronunciation of iron immediately he did not say iron which was a great way to know like how do you like what was he saying when he was a kid was like iron mike tyson iron, or whatever the hell he was saying. He's like, come on. Iron! He nailed it. Honestly, I think if someone else wasn't there, if they had someone else in that spot, it could have

been derailed very, very quickly. It didn't seem like Mike Tyson wanted to be there. That's for sure. He's like, what, are you talking to me? Yeah, it's fine. This is good. This is weird. Tyson the whole time just like i i'm ready to fight i'm ready to fight we're like yeah okay um but here's the thing we've come a long way from the impregnable days and all that stuff you know the eating babies and all that i would have loved that last night i would have loved a bit of it but he was so uh i see people every time anything about tyson comes out in this fight people like

oh he's terrifying look how scary this guy is oh it's good jake paul he's gonna it's gonna be terrible i didn't get i didn't get that sense of toys yesterday i thought ariel was trying his best to get things out of one and toyson was just kind of like do you think he was playing the role of this like psychotic you've let me out of the cage kind of go or do you think he was just a bit sad like it felt like he was a bit overwhelmed and sad that's what it felt like to me and maybe it's just my own feelings maybe i'm like projecting but i'm like uh it had that feel. It just didn't feel, you know, it felt like he was just in a situation that he

needed to get through now, you know? And I'm like, ugh. That's not, I mean, obviously, like, especially with these Jake Paul fights, you want to see... I don't even know what you're looking for actually, because it's like, but you expect, I guess, a little bit of lunacy to go around the event. That certainly

failed on that level. It didn't reach that. I don't think Mike wants to play along. You know what I mean? So, who knows? I think when he makes the walk, and again, like most people, and I pointed this out in that roundtable we did, most people, if you've talked to them, it's the craziest phenomenon ever. It's like, I talked to casual fans. I get a lot of people, dude, you go into that fight. How in the hell is Mike Tyson a plus 200 fighter in this fight? He's going to kill him. Like they just, they believe 100% that they're talking about the Mike Tyson. I'm like, well, he's 58 years old, you know? And the last time he was in there, he had almost no interest. The big bride fight, um, like in 2003 or whatever it was. And he got knocked out. There's a lot of reasons

why he's a big under i mean he should be a bigger underdog you know but the dichotomy that that perception dichotomy of the people who watched him they're nostalgic about mike tyson who permanently placed him in a place of just like his aura his uh ferocity all that stuff is always the exact same and then the people who kind of watch it like we do, where you're like, this is not good, man. This is not good because you're selling that dichotomy. And I feel like that's what's bizarre about this fight. And I haven't changed my mind a little bit

about how it's going to look if he gets knocked out. I mean, it's going to seem like that Holyfield thing again, right? It's going to seem like, oh, why do we have to put him through that? You're just going to feel bad for Mike Tyson. It's just going to be one of those things. But, I don't know. It's just it is the circus before the circus, though. And I'd say that

Ariel did a pretty damn good job of keeping that interesting. He did a pretty damn good job. Yeah. One part of it, and look, it could all be performative, of course, on Jake Paul's part. But Ariel did a great thing where, you know, there's a bit of a lull and he goes around every fighter and he's like, who are you picking, Tyson or Paul, Tyson or Paul? I think it's eight out of 12 pick Tyson. And Paul jumps up like, what?

Like, can't believe it. I was like, you should be rubbing your hands together. People actually, you'll be shocked. But you went with Jake Paul. She was one of the four. Um, but he starts going up to guys.

Oh, how much are you going to bet me? How much are you going to bet me? How much are you going to bet me? And it's like, dude, this is great for you. Like,

I know I can't believe that this many people think that you want that. Yeah. Beat it. Yeah. is great for you like i know i can't believe that this many people think that you want that yeah yeah the thing for me is like tyson like if i look like that when i'm 58 i'll be delighted with myself the guy is he looks incredible but it's like a it's a movement thing for me when i look at him it's like a equilibrium thing nearly like a balance issue or something i mean it's like you know you know boxing boxing boxing the biggest thing that stands out to me when you watch boxing matches because i was at the boots in this fight um last week you watch how quick they are to just react you know their movements which is just so superior to mma even because mma you're you're looking for a lot of different a lot of different entry points and a lot of different techniques and stuff you got to be paying attention but in

boxing it's just such quick twitch you you know you're moving you're flickering and then you're trying to lay a like you know lay lay lay them out with like a big wind up and try to you know take them out if you imagine an exchange in this fight you can imagine him not getting out of the way very well maybe he does for a little bit but as this fight goes on I imagine him not getting out of the way very well. Maybe he does for a little bit, but as this fight goes on, I'm not sure he's going to be able to get out of the way. And that's one of those things you're like, that's what boxing is so, it's crazy, right? And I'm like, I'm not sure Mike Tyson at his age, and like you're saying, I'm just not sure he's going to be able to, unless he lands the shot himself, but I'm not sure he's going to be able to unless he lands the shot himself but i'm not sure he's going to be

able to get out of the way enough it's i could just see him getting hit with something hard and going down you know and just because he can't that's that's not ideal for netflix right like if they're getting into this this is their first kind of foray into the combats live combat sports tyson goes down badly which i anticipate will happen and we're kind of projecting our heads into 2025 and this UFC TV deal like could the backlash potentially be so bad that Netflix like I know obviously they're in they're um they're in collaboration with WWE now like they're the broadcast partners but do you think it could the reaction could be so bad that they're like, do you know what, maybe, like we all think that Netflix will be at the table for UFC, given that they're there with WWE, right?

So do you think like an outcome could play out that's so bad and the backlash is so severe that they are no longer interested in that? Or is that in fact the currency of today? Like it doesn't actually matter if it's that bad because bad is people talking. I think they would just strengthen their resolve. If this their resolve if this thing plays out i guess in the worst case scenario which is just it looks bad that this old man got beat up on tv like to whatever amount like whatever 350 million households or whatever 600 million um homes with shared codes or whatever it's like if that happens uh they would just have to strengthen

the resolve to do better i don't think they'd get out of it because happens, they would just have to strengthen the resolve to do better. I don't think they'd get out of it because I think they would see the potential of something like that. I think they would see the potential of the fight game in a way that executives see things. You know what I mean? Where they'd be like, well, this is a moneymaker. We just got to clean it up. We don't want to have circus things. We want to do – or maybe you want to get it closer to competition, things like that.

But I think it would be very interesting in that way. That's one of the great things about the subplots of this weekend, too, is Netflix, what do they see? What is the audience in the end? And how does it look? How does it play out? Is it one of those things that people liked, or do you feel gross afterwards? Like we have with Triller.

Remember Triller event? It just felt so gross in the end. You're like, oh, God, what did I watch? I think if it does happen though, I don't think no matter what happened, unless, and God forbid anybody dies or anything like that, but I'm like, as long as there's nothing truly tragic, I think that they would just strengthen the resolve to do it again. Maybe as a one-off, I could see them doing this one-offs, you know, like bring in big fights occasionally or something like that but i think that they would look for compelling that would be more competitive you know they would they would

they would uh just tweak it to fit what they want yeah yeah it's the whole like obviously katie's like this beacon of sporting brilliance here and it's so like the juxtaposition of her and serrano this amazing boxing match. By all accounts, by every purist would love to see this rematch being on this card. Do you think that was like choreographed to bring legitimacy to it? Like I heard someone argue this week that like Paul's whole involvement with Serrano was to be taken more seriously and to be commended by the boxing world. Because in fairness to him, he put her in great spots.

There's no doubt about that. He had a massively positive impact on her career. But did we forget to see what he was getting back in return, which is really embodied in this event with this rematch happening underneath him and Tyson. Yeah, because if you had put

straight circus like Triller did, I think back on that card and stuff like that. You never get a break. It's like the theater of the absurd and it just keeps escalating until the point you're like, I need to shower. I think in this one

though, you're building up to the lunatic end, but everything before it is strong. Everything before it is legitimate and strong. I feel like, yeah, it's like it also and when you're when you're affiliated to like the legitimacy of like that kind of event your event right your main event carries some of that legitimacy because it's paired up with it it's like the association i think that that's 100 strategic and i think it's very weird we've had this discussion since it's been made, right?

Like about how do you put like, you know, this, this awesome fight again, you know, with this thing that's like, could be, you know, this thing. But, um, I think that in the end, I'm like, it's going to be huge exposure. I'm not that you need Katie Taylor to be exposed or like Amanda Serrano serrano they've been you know but at the same time this would be the biggest amount of eyeballs on all of these including the uh is it the barrios fight the uh the middle one there i mean like any of these fight any of these fighters if you go down you're like it's going to put a lot of eyeballs on them and so that's good right like for legitimate fighters that's a good thing. Yeah.

There's a lot of worry over here, let me tell you, because it's a Jake Paul event and Serrano and Taylor. And they're like, if this is anywhere near close, this is going Serrano's way so they can set up the trilogy and make a shitload of cash off it. You know, everyone's starting to get into that mode now. Well, Katie's just going to have to make it definitive. Emphatic. We know she can. we know she can it's um yeah it's really really interesting just this like there's so

many mainstream irish guys gone over this event and you can actually see the smattering of them like these the the publications that were there was so vast and then you have a guy from like an irish newspaper being like katie and when you got hit in the fifth round in the first fight everyone's like this this doesn't seem right like it it sticks out like a sore thumb in that environment but they're still trying to write for like national publications right like amidst all this stuff they're going in there trying to like basically yeah you know wet the national appetite when it comes to this point without talking about the other one.

It's crazy. I don't know if we've ever seen anything quite like this. Where you have a fight of that magnitude that made history a couple years ago in so many ways, Madison Square Garden. To have that on the same night,

basically back-to-back, that juxtaposition will be very interesting and it'd be it'd be very interesting to see because if for some reason it works i bet you see more of this you know if for some reason this night works and it seems magical to people you could see people doing you could see this kind of thing put together more often right yeah this this is i saw this on talk story yesterday which is one of the major publications covering boxing in the UK. And, you know, they hate the fight. They obviously, they're all like,

this is terrible. Like, this is toys and I'm faulting. But like, this has got, they also are aware that this is going to be a joint success. Like, I feel like everyone has agreed that like, there's no way this can fail because the morbid fascination or whatever the hell it is,

everyone, they can say it's it's bullshit they're gonna end up watching it um they're afraid that like they kind of start saying well what happens if it's gonna go well and if paul wins like what's next right like are we getting are we putting lennox lewis in there but like is it opening up this whole new window where we're dragging these guys who are way beyond themselves like tyson look beyond this beyond his best boy day in the early to that like way beyond in the early 2000s when he was doing that uk tour against julian julia francis or whatever his name was at the time like it was already done then yeah i thought that tommy fury by the way like once that fight happened with Paul,

I was like, all right, maybe this puts an end to it. Because we've been talking about this. You thought that was saturation point. I did. You said saturation point. I did. And honestly, this just kind of leaps over it because it's a whole different thing.

You're talking about a guy, the Mike Tyson aspect of it is such an attraction, right? It's such an attraction that it kind of blew away all the weird, hey, Tyrone Woodley, or whatever. It's like, this isn't the same thing, but I still feel like there's a saturation point with Jake Paul. Like he was talking about, like, I want to be in the NFL next, you know. You're just like, I don't want to keep.

I want to be a tight end. I want to be a tight end. I'm like, I don't want to. Why are we being forced to listen to this, you know? So it still exists, somehow that he's figured out how to make make his attraction this time um stand out even amidst that you know yeah yeah well look we are about to finish up here guys i think we'll do a few picks before we go we'll be sure sure um let's start off with the massive massive event that's happening tomorrow night. And, of course, we will be doing a post-fight show with this.

I mean, New York Rick, GC, Mysterious Frank, On Air Jordan's going to be there. I'm going to be there, and Chuck Mendenhall's going to be there. And you know who else is going to be there? Who? You know, Ariel, he's going to jump on that. There's no way. Oh, my God. We can't promise that, right?

The people are going crazy. Dude, we've done post-fight shows with him before, and he'll be walking through lobbies and on sidewalks. Oh, my God. We can't promise that, right? The people are going crazy. We can't promise it. But, dude, we've done post-fight shows with him before, and he'll be walking through lobbies and on sidewalks. He'll call in. He's not going to miss it. It's amazing. If he's able to, he'll be there. Yeah.

So let's finish off with these picks. Let's start with Taylor Serrano. Be very careful here. What you said is my worry too I kind of see I do see it this way, if I have a close fight they're just going to like, ah it's Serrano's I think I'm leaning Serrano

well of course who are you leaning? I'll be thrown out of the country if I don't pick Katie Taylor she might show up in my dorm and beat the shit out of me if I don't pick her Taylor. She might show up at my door and beat the shit out of me if I don't pick her. I'm going Katie all day. So Tyson v. Paul.

I can only imagine where you're going to go with this one, Chuck. Oh, man. I want a method of victory on this one as well. Man, this is one of those heart versus head things, right? In your heart, you're like i just want tyson to have his moment you know like everybody's like you know us guys who are like oh it's gonna be so sad i watched you with my fingers for him to win would just be like this thrill ride it would be amazing but what i was saying before about him not being able to get

out of the way of the punches coming his way is kind of how i see it. I'm going to say second round. Second round KO for Paul. That's like the second worst situation it could be with the second round. Unless for some reason they want to carry it and try to make it. You never know on this kind of event. I think that could look really bad. If we suddenly are watching

this play and it feels like that could be very bad. I think Paul in the first four. I'm not looking forward to it. He's going to get a decision in the first four. I am going to be watching. I'm not going to bullshit anyone.

I think this is going to be a strange viewing experience. The good thing is we get to talk about it afterwards. I guess we can be a therapy for each other. Let's get on to the top two points at 309. Chandler v. Oliveira. You know, I'm going to go Oliveira.

I don't know if you've even got a chance to read some of the responses on the roundtable, but here's one thing to just keep in mind. I believe in this sort of thing. For whatever reason, Michael Chandler sucks. Not sucks at Madison Square Garden, but he doesn't win there. He's 0-3, and it goes back to that Brett Premis fight a few years ago.

It goes back to that. The drug fort one? What's that? Yeah. There's a part of me that's just like, that's just his house of horrors, and I appreciate that he's going into it without superstition and apprehension, but that hasn't treated him well.

You're going against a guy who's already beat you, and I think that Oliveira still has it in his heart to be a champion again. He wants that so bad. I'm going with Charlie, man. I think he finishes him, too. I'm with you on that one. Then, the fight

that we aren't talking enough about that we've disrespected all week Jon Jones is not very happy about it Jones v Stipe Stipe Miocic is not going to win that fight man I knew you were going to do it not going to win it man

you motherfucker I can see Not going to win it, man. You motherfucker. I could see this fight. I mean, it's kind of difficult. Like, what do you think? How do you think it is? Do you think he gets finished within the five? Because if it drags on, this could be weird. But I do think it happens in the first three rounds.

I think that somehow Jones would get out of there in the before the championship rounds i've got this thing in my head and i think jones will win the fight i'll get that out of the way early but a certain english heavyweight who may or may not be in new york said this to me a couple weeks ago he's like i think this fight's gonna look really bad and then i heard daniel cormier talking about it like he's like these are a lot more even than you think yeah they are and then it kind of it comes to mind that we saw so as as impressive as the gan fight was we saw so little of john there yeah and there's part of me thinking that maybe there's some substance to that and as you just said there

if it goes late what i don't know what we're looking at at that point you know yeah it's easy to imagine it what i just said which like it's just one way or another it's kind of in the first couple of rounds but i'm not sure what it looks like i honestly don't know what it looks like if it just like third fourth fifth or what does that fight look like i could see a 100 what you're talking about aspen i mean i could see this becoming an ugly fight. I didn't name any names. No, no. Just a certain... Whatever. You can strike that. Tom will say.

Let's use it. Guy's an asshole. Who cares what he says? Anyway, lads, we love yous very much. Fantastic day. A big weekend. Get your bodies ready. Your bodies must be prepared for what we're about to witness over the next two days. Big thank you to On Air Jordan.

Big thank you to Mysterious Frank. Big thank you to all the crackheads and a massive thank you to the great man in the hat, the greatest of all time, Chuck Mendenhall. We'll be back next Friday. The combat sports world will have changed drastically. But until then, check out the post-fight shows.

Check out the post-fight show tomorrow. Check out the post-fight show tomorrow. Check out the post-fight show on Saturday. We love yous very much.