The Ariel Helwani Show - The MMA Beat: Conor McGregor coverage, future plans with UFC, Paddy’s return, Gable’s ceiling

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

Ariel Helwani is joined by Uncrowned's Shaheen Al-Shatti, Chuck Mindenhall, and NewYorkRic to discuss the media stories surrounding Conor McGregor's return at UFC 329, including how he's covered (03:45), why he's fighting Max Holloway (22:31), the weigh-ins being aired on CBS (29:38), and what potential viewership for the card might look like (51:44). Plus, the panels touches on what's at stake for Paddy Pimblett (52:48) and Gable Steveson (59:17).

And welcome to a brand new episode of The Beat. It is Tuesday, July 7, 2000, 26. Hello again, everyone. I'm Aria Hawani, Inside, our brand new look for our new show called The Beat. Yes, I've told you this in the past. We're going to do more of these. We're in the usual New York City studio. But look at this.

Look at this. Look at that logo right there. Look at that logo right here. Listen to that music. It's a new era for the beat. More of these episodes to come. And we felt like it was apropos to, I don't know, unveil this, rechristen it,

whatever the hell you want to call it on this particular week because it's a massive fight week. Of course, UFC 329. We're headed to Vegas today to go cover it. Boots on the ground. UFC 329, the return of Connor, five years in the making, the rematch against Max Holloway,

13 years in the making. So much to discuss. feels like a perfect time to bring back the beat. And so here we are on this Tuesday afternoon. If you know anything about the beat, you know it's not just me solo. You know I come with friends. And as always, it's a quartet of us talking about all things combat sports. And on this particular episode of the beat, it's MMA, of course, and a heavy focus on UFC 329.

And so our first panelist is the editor-in-chief of uncrown.com, the number one, unbiased home for all things. combat sports. He's been our fearless leader since we launched the site back in October of 2024. He is a long-suffering, but soon to be, just like me, a very happy Phoenix Suns fan. I feel it. I feel it in my bones. He is the pride of Phoenix, Arizona, the one and only Shaheen Al-Shadi. My guy. How are you, sir? Oh, man, what an intro coming. I didn't know. I'd expect that. Oh, look at these snazzy graphics, by the way. This is just sensational packaging all around. Also, I'm not sure that, I don't know if you heard about something called the Miles Bridges trade, but it's kind of dividing the entire state of Arizona. I don't know if the

vibes are that high over here in the desert, but the vibes are sensational ahead of what should be a very big week. And I'm excited we're doing this. This feels like home. Yes, it does feel like home. And I'm remaining positive for you because if it can happen for me, say hello to Larry. It can happen for you as well. A man who knows the thing or two about this, he was the one that first taught me that I can dare to dream. He is the mayor of the nutmeg state. He is the man in the hat. He's, I mean, an OG of this particular program and of the combat sports journalism world. He's the one and only Chuck Minnell who's here as well. Hello, Chuck. How are you? Yeah, man. Yeah, it was the groundbreakinger in 2023. So I'm happy that somebody can discuss this with me now.

And you're right. I told Sean this too. I told him. I said, you're next. And I got to laugh him. He's got to be next. He's got to be next. It will happen. It will happen. And of course, a fourth member of the team, he is a man who, you know, doesn't mince words. He's known for his takes. Some will call them hot, but he just considers them good takes, like his opinion. And he's never wrong, by the way. He is the executive producer of everything that we do here in New York City emanating from this very studio. He is the King of Queens. He is the one and only New York Creek. Couldn't have said it better myself. Hello again.

again. It's great to see you. It's great to see you. Thank you so much for joining us. That was an inside joke right there. Guys, we have a lot to discuss. We have a lot to discuss. It's UFC 329. We are a mere, what is it? Four days away from the return of Conne McGregor. And we don't need to go into the fact that a lot of people when we were first talking about this possibility, maybe six, seven, eight months ago said this would never happen. He's not fighting again. Wolf tickets, this down the other. It is happening. Barring a late-minute injury. something catastrophic, it is happening. And you know, I asked the fans on Twitter on Sunday, Shaheen, what their level of excitement was going into Saturday night. We can't do polls anymore

on Twitter, so I just had to ask them. And I got a full range, everything from a one to a 25 in terms of like what their rating was. And, you know, I've talked about, you know, the viewership, I've talked about the interest that I've seen, but you have a very unique perspective on all this because you're like, you're right there looking at numbers, looking at traffic, looking at the way in which people are reacting to the return of Connor McGregor. So could I ask you, and perhaps even maybe comparing it to his heyday, if you will, what is the interest level over on uncrown.com for this big return on Saturday night? Well, first, I'd like to turn this back to you just real quick. What was the pulse of the people? Because I'm very curious right now. It feels like this is a

a bit of a strange week. Like, we're used to strange weeks, right? We've had several already this week, or this year, but this feels strange. And so I'm curious, what was the pulse? It was the full range. Honestly, it was a lot of ones, a lot of tens, a lot of 15s. I think it depends really on where you're from, to be honest. Like, I think if you're from Ireland, I think you want this to be over.

I think if you're from the United States, someone came up to me over the weekend is like, I can't wait for this. I've been waiting so long. I can't believe he's coming back. I think it really kind of depends on your relationship with him, how you view him, and maybe even where you're from. Yeah, I think that's fair. Talking to Pizzi, it certainly is a divisive topic in Ireland, certainly. It's interesting, man. I mean, this is a person who we haven't seen him for five years in an actual competition, right? But it feels like he hasn't really gone away in a real sense. It feels like every, throughout this entire half decade, we have not, we have not lost a level of Connor McGregor in our lives.

He has still been pervasive, mostly for the wrong reasons, right? He's mostly his name is in headlines for awful reasons or just somewhat jarring reasons. And then, you know, but he's still sticking around the space. Even with his involvement of BKFC, like there is always a level of Connor McGregor involvement. So it's strange in that he's been gone for so long, but it doesn't feel like he has been gone in that sense. But I mean, I just got to say, you know, like just looking at, you ask about like traffic and interest and level of like search interest and things like that. The man's a star still, right? Like, he's the biggest star this sport has ever produced.

We all of us were there for whatever we want to consider the golden era of this, the prime of the Connor McGregor years, those magical events, the insanity in Las Vegas or MSG or New York, wherever this was. This doesn't feel like that by any means, but I think there is still a healthy level of interest in Connor McGregor. I think anytime he does something, people react to it, whether it's positive or negative. But I think coming into this week in particular, because it has been so long since we've seen him fight, there is significant, significant interest, at least from what we've seen on

the other side and whatever this is going to be. Because I think a lot of people also, too, just don't even remember or worked around for what this Connor McGregor experience was. So they've only heard the third-hand, second-hand stories from people like us, me, you, Chuck, Eric, telling people how great and how incredible it was back then. And maybe they also want to see if he can rekindle the magic and experience some of that for themselves, too. Chuck, do you agree with that sentiment? And perhaps maybe if you do or don't, I wonder, because I agree with it for the most part, but I wonder if once that press conference happens, once people start to see him in that element with the fans going crazy, it will change.

Like we may say this on Monday, Tuesday, but come Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, everything will change. What do you think? Yeah, I feel like that that's going to be the telltale sign. You know, as a journalist, and I've had a lot of this discussion, as you kind of approach something like this. It becomes even more polarizing because there are the people who, I mean, and this is,

everybody should take a front to what has happened with him on some level. I mean, you should, we should not like go right past Connor McGregor, the man back into Connor McGregor, the sensation in MMA if you're a journalist, right? Like, you should still be in the space of contextualizing

this person and a complicated story. I mean, we had to live there. I know that you were very young during the, you know, the Mike Tyson thing. I wasn't not an old person. yet either. But I'm saying that, like, you go back to that and you had to watch the delicate dance, and some of it was indelicate, but like the way that they had to approach Mike Tyson and the Jim Greys of the world, you know, the people who talk to him. And I do think that to do a service within our industry, you got to contextualize and put the full thing out there. That is going to be

a polarizing thing. To come on the heels of the White House card in which there was a sort of tightrope that you had to walk to keep the sporting from the spectacle of and the politics and all that to go into this one is of this is the weirdest one too i think i've ever experienced in in m mb and you know i believe i was there for that magic just like you guys and there was there were parts of me man that what was going on was so phenomenal it made the sport what it is in so many ways he was the exception to every rule he was the you know he's he created the precedent for what superstardom looked like and the sport and like to live through that and to see the escalation of how it went how it went down the mystic max stuff the you know the single punch on aldo winning two belts at msg i mean these things

they they made the sport what it is so you're not going to push that away there's going to be an element of that but i do think it's our duty right to kind of keep the man now in focus for where he's at in this time and that's going to be at odds with some of the i you know i know that peter stresses about this and you know you you go into a situation but that is the job, right? That is the job at this point. And so, Rick, let me ask you, how do you balance that? Because I see it, I see you guys talking about it on the crack. I see people writing to you and things like that. Yes, you know, he's had a, at times horrendous, horrific last five years. There have been a lot of things that he's been accused of that he's had to deal with, the civil court, you know, the case,

the trial, all that stuff and more. And yet he's still fighting in the, there are some people who just want that talk, right? They just want Saturday night to sit back and maybe be nostalgic about it, maybe sit back with their friends or maybe introduce their friends to what it all meant and what this thing. You know, like we talk all the time, Frank, G.C., on the team, they've never seen a Connor McGregor fight live because, you know, they weren't a part of the team. You know, they only joined in August of 2021 and the Porreux fight was in July of 2021.

They didn't experience it like we did. And so how do you balance that? How do you balance celebrating the return or talking about the history, talking about the impact, but also talking about all the other stuff that's happened. And I'm not trying to minimize it in any way, but it's just a lot of heavy, heavy stuff that has happened over the past five years. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think Chuck said it best, right? You have to marry those two things. You can talk about one part of the Connor McGregor experience, which is the fighting. And I'll touch on the nostalgia part because I think that's the most critical word here. But then you also touch on civilly liable for rape. You touch on all those other things

that are part of the Connor McGregor's story, all the controversies, all the horrible things that have been associated with his name, and the turning of the Irish people, which Pizzi has continued to kind of touch on, those things are all part of that story, right? It would be unfair for one side or the other to be the only thing you talk of, right? There are people who will condemn Connor McGregor and say, you shouldn't talk about anything he ever does, right, despite the fact that he's headlining a UFC event and they're putting this card on other than what has happened in civil court.

You should never talk about him again. And then there's the other side who will say, I'm just here for the vibes. I'm just here for the nostalgia. Injected to my veins, I don't care about the other stuff. And neither of those is probably the right solution for anybody, although maybe for the people that have proposed it. Nostalgia is the thing that I think is the most kind of like significant in my mind as we talk about all this this week because Connor McGregor's return is ultimately like a selfish

endeavor for fans. If you really look at the last years of Connor McGregor, there's really nothing to celebrate. is no part of this that you're looking at it and going like this was a joyful experience. It has only been bad. And so we are all as fans who are talking about a Conn McGregor return. If this was anybody else, we wouldn't care. If somebody was coming at a retirement for this long or hadn't fought for this long and is coming back, we'd give them no shot. We wouldn't care about the return. And we'd ultimately kind of turn the channel. It would be the stuff that people were saying about Rhonda Rousey and Gina Carrano, which is like, oh, these old geysers, nobody wants to watch

this, the kind of like hyperbole that they talked about with that. But because Connor McGregor once captured our imagination and because we want to go back to 2016, because we want to be in that place, because fans of this sport are craving what it felt like to exist in that 2016 that Connor McGregor was on top, they have hope or they believe or they want to see it and that is what Connor McGregor is presenting to them. But if we take it on its face, it has not been a joyful experience. And so I think we just have to be honest about what it has been and what it will be. But make no mistake, people are really willing to kind of sacrifice the reality for that nostalgic feeling because we all want to be back there.

I'll be 100% honest with you guys. And I'll ask you, Shaheen, about this as well. Anytime someone talks to me about the return, I don't get any of the stuff that Petey talks about. And I'm not saying it's not happening. I know it's happening. But let's be honest, his civil court case was not front page news here in America. I don't even know if a lot of these fans even know about it. And so it's just fascinating to hear.

We're connected to fans all over the world online, on Twitter, on YouTube. You see it all. But in the streets, when I'm going and walking around and people are like, yo, Connor's coming back in four days this past weekend on vacation. People are coming up to me. No one says, yeah, but I don't get any of that. I don't see the same type of stuff that like a Tank Davis might get here or even Tyson got or Kobe Bryant got back in the day.

And I find that to be fascinating. What about you? That's interesting because I feel like I have a different experience with it. I feel like several people within my life have asked me, you know, within the past week or two of, you know, Connor, like, knowing and hearing that Connor's coming back, like, how are you guys even going to do that? Like, I thought that guy should be in jail right now. Like, I've repeatedly, like, this has been, it's not an elephant in the room because

it looms so large over everything. Like, we can't get away from it, right? A couple years ago, this man was found civilly liable. for essentially the rape of Nikita Han. Like that is a very dark and gruesome thing. And there's a lot of, there's a lot that hasn't come, or that surrounded that time within his life the past five years. But also there's just, again, it struck me like when you had him in studio a couple

weeks ago. And I think maybe Pete see this mentioned this as well. But like you look at the comments of that interview or the comments on that interview. And it is just full of a wave of people essentially wanting to believe in Connor again. and it feels like that's like the overriding sentiment that you can get that you get from fans within the fight game and then like there's this it's this it's this onion that you kind of have to peel right because within the fight game it feels like no matter how anybody covers this fight this week people are going to be unhappy people are going to think you didn't focus enough on the

awful things that this man has done over the past half decade or people are going to think you focus too much on it didn't focus on the fight it feels like no matter what people are going to be left feeling as if this was not approached right at the end of the week. And yet you have this other side where everyone wants to believe in it because there are now two eras essentially of MMA fandom because we've talked about this in past where the cycle of MMA fandom is about three, four, or five years, right? And then it seems like a new generation of fans cycle in.

And in particular, the COVID era, right? That really changed a lot of what the fan base was. It feels like there's now either one or two generations of fans who have strictly consumed whatever Connor McGregor meant to the sport within Instagram. and TikTok reels and these YouTube highlights and things like that and not actually getting a real sense of it. Because even like you pointed out, you know, the 2021, the Dustin Poye fights, I wouldn't say that was like what the Connor McGregor experience was like back in the day, right? That was a off-brand wish Walmart version of whatever the actual Connor McGregor experience was. And even the last time we saw this guy, like if you remember back to that Dustin Poyer trilogy fight, that was an incredibly ugly week, man.

Like that was a really, really ugly week with where the trash talk and the lead up to that fight got with involving Dustin Pointe's wife. And then it ends the way it ends with this gruesome injury. And just like Connor just being really, again, ugly in the cage with everything that you say in before and afterwards. That wasn't a great look for our last memory of Connor McGregor in a lot of people's first real interaction with a Connor McGregor fight. And it's just everything since, man. it's just, it's a very, like Chuck said at the top, this is, to me, feels like one of the more bizarre weeks that we have experienced because there is just so many threads, threads to pull within this tapestry of whatever this has become, because it is, regardless of however

you want to consider him and frame him within a historical sense, like he is one of the more his important historical figures within the history of this sport, just because of his sheer popularity and the size of what his events meant and during, you know, and how they propelled to the sport during that era. Chuck, are you surprised he's coming back? Because there were a lot of people, let's be honest, who thought he would never come back. Are you surprised he's ultimately coming back?

No, not really. I always thought he would come back. It just didn't strike me as that he was really gone. I mean, he's been talking about it for a long time. I always assumed he's got, like, you know, he's got something in him that is not resolved within this. So I felt like he'd be there. But just kind of piggybacking off of this.

If he went, I mean, we've seen the sport, man. Like you think that, like, you know, you can talk about, I guess boxing would be the closest equivalent. But when you're talking about NBA, for instance, like, where Kobe kind of ended up, you know, like in terms of, I know that Denver would boo him, but there was a slow kind of reacceptance. And pretty soon you're just talking about Kobe the player again. And, you know, there's this thing. But in our sport, it is so different, man.

Like, we watch Sean Strickland and we have these discussions. Sometimes we show up on these shows and are like, man, this is just reprehensible stuff, what he's saying. And, you know, bull. blah, blah, blah. And, you know, he has, I know it's, he's not done anything quite to what Connor has done here, but like, you kind of, you reprimand his actions. And then he wins. And there's just a flood, a deluge, you know, of people who, supporters, forget about it. Like, I feel like that's our sport, isn't it? Like, that's kind of him amazed. So, like, once Connor goes

in there, let's say he wins this, I don't know, that's going to be the strangest part of this. is like to reintroduce him into a superstardom and how to kind of handle that side of it because that's coming. If he wins, this is going to be the greatest comeback that we've seen in this sport. And honestly,

man, you'd have to strain your imaginations to find it in the fight game in general. Like, you'd have to really think about who's come back from something like what he has after this much time and done it. So these narratives are,

you know, it's our job to kind of remember the whole situation, the man and stuff like that, but it's going to get very weird if you wins, don't you think? It's going to be interesting. And the question is I was actually thinking about it. First of all, number one, you're right. Given the injuries and then everything else, it's been a lot to come back from.

And I don't know how many people can rival that. I was wondering, I'll ask you this, Rick. I was wondering deep, deep down inside. I always like to try to pretend or get into their minds. Like, who does the UFC want to win? you know, because he has two fights left. And they didn't resign him to a longer deal when they restructured his deal. And I'm sure they probably wanted to.

I don't think both Connor and his team wanted to. And so is the best case scenario for them, he wins on Saturday and he loses in that second fight? Is the best case he wins and wins and they keep him around? Is the best case lose and lose? Is that why they called upon Max Holloway and not Michael Chandler? Deep, deep down inside, who do you think the brass wants to win on Saturday? I think a Connor McGregor win would be great, and then the next fight they don't want him to win. Okay.

Right. Max Holloway is not somebody that you can launch with the Connor McGregor fight in the way that Dustin Porre by beating Connor McGregor became a bit of a bigger star, but he never kind of hit, you know, orbit. It never hit that stratosphere because he was an established product. It was at a downtime for Connor McGregor. Connor McGregor coming back and losing to Max Holloway, most people will just go, yeah, of course he did. it's not going to propel Max in a way that I think will be worth the risk, right? Now, if this was Patty Pimblet or somebody who could really benefit from having Connor McGregor's name on their

resume in a way that Max, I don't think can, and especially because we don't know how many fights Max even has left at this point, I think that the calculus might be a little bit different, but you pointed out the most important thing. And that is, I don't think Connor McGregor has more than two fights left with the UFC. Sorry, let me say this. I don't think, think Connor McGregor has more than two fights left with the UFC before he hears offers, right? I think he will enter free agency. I think he will at least field the offers. Now, he very well may return to the UFC. The best place for him, the best offer may be from the UFC. But I do think he will explore those offers and I think there will be a lot of suitors for his services. I don't think that

they want him to be riding as high as possible when those negotiations are going on. And so I I think this is more like Max Holloway followed by Carlos Proches, right? And that name had a bit attached to him and rumored. I think you may be cooler heads prevail. You do the Max fight. And then the second fight, I think, is one where they're hoping his shine gets dulled a little bit. So they have more leverage and somebody else getting him, if they potentially do, doesn't have as valuable a product. Shaheen, why do you think they picked Max Holloway?

Because to me, like the Carlos Prochis one made sense because Carlos Prochis beats Max, excuse me, Connor. He's now a superstar, right? you would think. Max has already kind of been there, done that. He's a former featherweight champion, BMF champion. Like, there isn't that much juice you can squeeze out of Max. He kind of is who he is at this point. He's gotten the 300 knockout of the year, all that stuff and more.

And, you know, he's a guy who's very much still in his prime, way more active than Connor. I think he's fought eight times since Connor's last fight. To me, it was somewhat surprising, even though there's the history there and he's going to sell the fight and the back and forth has been fun. Why do you think they picked Max Holloway? See, I don't know if I agree with you. See, I don't if, I feel like there's a lot here for Max to gain. Like Max has already had his moments, right? Like he is already a legend.

He's a Hall of Famer. He's on the Mount Rushmore or Featherweight at least. He had the UFC 300 knockout, which is one of the greatest knockouts any of us have ever seen. I still feel like there's levels to this, though. And if Max Holloway comes in there and shows out against Connor McGregor, at least like the ghost of Connor McGregor, whatever is left of Connor McGregor, I feel like that elevates Max significant.

within the public consciousness. If I walked out on the street right now, and I asked 10 random people, I don't know that more than a couple of them would know of Max Holloway. Whereas if he wins, if he wins this weekend, I think that changes.

I think the calculus of the changes just a little bit. It won't be an Nate Dia's effect, certainly, because that was a completely different era of Connor McGregor. But I do think there's something to be gained here from that. And I think Eric hit on it too of just the UFC's approach to this, right?

Because, I mean, we just look at the historical precedent. and it goes back to what I said about Conner's ability to just get people to believe in him and the reaction again to the interview we had with him a couple weeks ago, you look at the historical precedence for people who have had that kind of injury and what happened afterwards, how their career managed, not even including people who have had a five-year layoff included in that, right? I mean, what's the list of people who have had very successful runs after that?

I don't know if it's very long, if anybody at all, right? Anderson Sova was never the same. Chris Wyden was never the same. Whoever else you want to throw in there, like Corey Hill, if you go back in the day, like that injury changes people fundamentally. Again, not even including a half decade long layoff. Whereas Max Holloway, like, sure, Max Holloway lost the BMF title. You know, he lost to Ilya to some degree, right? Like I would still Max Holloway to some degree, right?

I think people would expect Connor to lose. The odds show that, right? if Connor goes in there and loses, I don't think that it hits his stock as much. And then, you know, the UFC's like you said, still has that second fight. They can roll it out. And then, hey, man, if you roll out Connor's second fight, he loses that one too. And then all of a sudden he's a free agent, but he's lost all these fights in a row. Like, that doesn't hurt you if you're the UFC.

That puts you in a pretty decent negotiating spot. So it makes sense to me this match. Chuck, I guess the reason why I said that was, you know, I don't recall time, at least not in the last five or so years where I felt like Max's Q-rated. was so low coming off of that loss to Charles Olvera. He has been like a human highlight reel, and it felt like for the first time since maybe the third Volcanovsky fight, people are like, well, that was a bummer, that was a letdown,

and there wasn't this deep desire to see another Max fight so soon. But, oh, by the way, the current undisputed lightweight champion of the UFC is Justin Gaichi, and he was the one that Max splattered, you know, two years ago, so all of this can change relatively quickly. So what do you think? Like, do you think that there's another Mac, I guess I just don't really foresee another Max, like, long title reign here, but maybe I'm completely wrong. No, I think it would just go into some, like, OG status, because 170 pounds, you know, this is a guy who is a very thin, you know, tall, lanky, pike-like featherweight, you know, like who, you know, was doing, was doing his best work, obviously at featherweight, goes up. And I can't stress this enough when he was going up.

And, I mean, we had our concerns about Max Holloway, going up to 100. 55 pounds fighting Justin Gagey. We were like, is he sure he wants to do this? This did not seem like a good idea. And to see that kind of masterclass and to get that kind of knockout, this is what makes him who he is. It kind of revs up in the hysteria of like the fight week, right? And especially in the aftermath of a fight.

But if he's able to do something like that where, you know, he's engaged and like Conner just doesn't look washed, you know, maybe Connor looks somewhat competitive in this fight. But yet, you know, Max puts it on him in the deep wire like he says. he wins the fight. I could see this just kind of packing into what is already, you know, like a very kind of celebrated like active perseverance and just OG BMF, all that stuff. I feel like it just adds this something to it. I don't know what it means from ultimately in terms of, you know, does he just go back down to, I'm guessing he goes back down to lightweight. I don't know what that does for him in the pecking order, but it adds something to aura, doesn't it? I mean,

that would just be like this extra thing that Max was able to do. And there's very few guys that have already put that many kind of, you know, plot it's on their, you know, through their career. And this would be another big one for him. I still think it matters to see, you know, him get through a guy like Connor. And also avenging, you know, let's not forget, as a 21-year-old guy in Boston, they're dropping the lights,

you know, on Connor McGregor as he's walking out for that fight in Boston. And, you know, Max was just kind of a throwaway in the same way that Dustin Porier was when he faced him. So this means something to him. And I think that that will show if he's able to get it done on fight night. perhaps a sign of his star power. Do you disagree, Shaheen? I see you shaking your head.

I was just going to say exactly what Chuck and Chuck just brought up a great point. We saw this exact thing five years ago with Dustin, right? Like, Dustin comes into those two Connor McGregor fights in 2021. As sure, he was celebrated. He was a fan favorite. Like, he was already, his legacy already was pretty established. But he absolutely leveled up, right? Like he, just in terms of, you want to say, Q rating, like public consciousness,

this mainstream star. Like he comes into those fights having lost to Habib relatively recently. He was in these, you know, main events against Dan Hooker, tremendous fights. But like I don't know that they were big blockbusters, whereas he beats Connor twice. And in particular, like TKO, K.O style stopping him. Dustin Poit came out of 2021 as just a massive star. And for the rest of his career, it really followed him. He became, he really elevated to a different level of where his events are blockbuster.

His events are must see throughout the. rest of his career and it feels like that's there for Max. You guys are 100% right. I thought they would try to go with either like the Chandler type of fight where, you know, it's a guarantee that something crazy would happen and it probably would be a Connor knockout considering how Chandler looked against Hoofee or tried to build a new star off of him. Max felt like he was right here, but things could change so quickly and a sign of how big this fight is and a sign of how much star power, at least in this country Conner still has is the fact that on Monday CBS announced, Eric, that they are going to be airing the way-ins.

They're going to be airing a one-hour special beginning at 9 p.m. Eastern and 6. Actually, no, they're doing it 9 p.m. Eastern and 9 p.m. Pacific. So I think it's taped delayed, at least on television on the West Coast. But they haven't done this yet. And I know the deal is just seven months old, but they've rarely shown anything on CBS at this point. I still maintain they should have showed at least a preview show. I know you disagree for the White House card on CBS. So your reaction to them airing the ceremonial wands on Friday night on CBS. They said he was toast, but he's still the bread. Yeah.

I mean, what more needs to be said? He's Connor McGregor. And to the point that you made, right, you thought they should have done it for the White House. Connor McGregor is bigger than the White House to the sporting audience. That is like he is the alpha. He is the Omega in this context. There is no bigger name across combat sports than Connor McGregor. Like he is just the guy.

And so I think he is. commands that type of attention. If they didn't do something like this, it would feel a little bit like a near miss, right? Like, it would feel a little bit like, why aren't you trying to do as much as you can to maximize this opportunity that you had? Because to the point that we've kind of been dancing around

or at least kind of, you know, not saying explicitly is like, Connor McGregor may not be fighting for the UFC after two fights, right? And so if you have two, make them count, put the way ends on CBS. Hell, put some of the card on CBS. Do as much as you possibly can to get the value out of this, right? And then when you have it no longer, then you can worry about the consequences of that.

But I think you have to maximize this, and it's the smartest move you can make. Chuck, I asked Connor when he was in studio, does the sport need you back? And he actually was somewhat humble in all of this, which was a bit of it. I thought for sure he was going to say, yeah, of course, you know, I'm the man. He said, the sport doesn't need me back, but it sure is good to have me. back. Do you think the UFC needs Connor McGregor on top back again? The need, I think that

it can certainly use him. And I mean, I say this because, you know, recently we had Shemaya, Hamzaa Shemayev loses, right? You get Pereira who loses, now you get Diliatea Tuporia, and you've got an Islam Makajib. Now, we're, this is straight up when we're talking about nostalgia, sometimes these types of takes fit into a narrative from

2016 that we actually think in terms of star you know the guys come up it's never going to hurt to have stars but when you lose stars and I'm not saying that all those guys are washed that we just named but like when they lose right and there's the sheen of invincibility starts

to disappear and you don't really have that guy not that Connor can regain that but he can certainly still move the needle and when people talk you know if it's a national media and there are so many of these guys right who don't pay really close attention to MMA They know a couple of the names.

One of them is Connor McGregor. When he comes around, suddenly they can be, you know, they're familiar with him so suddenly they can feel a little bit more like they're in tune to what's happening. They're going to talk about him. That's the kind of pool he has. It's just like it's still that transcendent pull. And I think having him relevant, even if it's just for one fight, like let's say he wins this one and they set him up to be kicked out on the ice flow in the next one, you know,

it's going to be a wild, you know, nine months or whatever it is between fights. It's going to be a whole different thing that comes back into this. And there's only one guy really who has that kind of, whether it's polarizing or whatever it is. It's just nobody has that pool. So it's not a bad thing. I think that the UFC and you can look down a lot of their cards, you know, these days. And the star power is it's hard to come by. But if you get a Connor McGregor and it's just sitting out there on a, you know, he gets this victory said,

now you've got, whenever it is, he said April. whatever the thing ends up being, but it just sits out there. That becomes a big deal, doesn't it? I feel like the UFC doesn't have a lot of that right now. I just called Connor the Alpha and Omega. I fully believe that. I don't think the UFC needs him from the perspective that for their business, they've now proven time and time again that they will not pay for the biggest stars, right?

Ronda Rousey, they said, thanks, but no thanks. John Jones, yes, then negotiates and continue. Ultimately, it didn't end up happening. They just continue to show that, like, they are the brand and they are bigger than any individual fighter. Where I put a little asterisk, a little caveat is Connor McGregor's value to the UFC in a vacuum is not very big, but his value as a product for a competitor is massive. For a PFL, for a BKFC, right, as a potential option, for the boxing

world, for any of them to have Connor McGregor is much more damaging potentially to the UFC's kind of foothold than it is for them to have him themselves. Not that I think that like anybody's going to unseat the UFC. That's just not happening. I think the UFC is so for established. But I think the potential for somebody else to have a product like Connor McGregor and get even the tiniest bit of momentum is much more significant than them not having Connor McGregor. So it's this kind of delicate dance of like, do we keep them so nobody else gets them? I don't really know the answer. But I don't think they as a, in a vacuum

as a brand, need him as much as they did at one time. Shaheen? I just don't think that's right. I don't, I mean, first of all, does the UFC need Connor McGregor? The answer. There's just a simple no in the sense that you look at the first three months of 2026. How much money did the UFC make? They made $401.2 million in revenue in the first three months of this year alone. I think they're doing fine. They haven't had Connor McGregor for the past five years. Again, they've made incredible sums of money over the course of that time.

And they figured it out because as Dan always says, that's what they kind of do. They just figure it out, right? I think there's a world where the Connor McGregor right now of this week, I agree 100% with what you're saying, Eric. This version of Connor McGregor is much more damaging to the UFC to be outside of the UFC than to be in the UFC. But if we're playing out the next six, seven, ten months, whatever it is, and Connor McGregor comes in there, let's say he loses to Max, let's say he gets stopped. And then they throw him to the wolves in that last fight, like Chuck said, just check him off on the ice flow and say, hey, deal with it. Give him the old Nate Diaz versus Hamzaa Shamaif treatment.

If he loses that one too, and then all of a sudden he's Connor McGregor on this big losing streak, agent. Yeah, sure, he is still Connor McGregor. There will still be people who want to watch his fights. There were people who wanted to watch 60-year-old Mike Tyson box, Jake's Paul. Like, he will live that forever. He will always have people interested in watching it. But I think it is a greatly different type of product to be selling as an outside MMA organization if you're the person who picks up the pieces from that. Like if PFL somehow raises this outstanding sum of money to get in the Connor McGregor business next year, or MVP. or whoever.

I think we just saw it with the, with the Ronda Rousey fight. Like the fan base the UFC has is so loyal to the brand and not to the fighters. Dana White didn't even have to do any spin for the Ronda fight. If you ever, like all of Dana's talk before the Ronda fight was like, oh, you know, I wish them luck. We didn't want that fight.

I wish them luck. He could do the same thing for a counter fight and the fans would spin it the same way next year of like, ah, this guy's washed up. He's in his late 30s. He's got his leg broken. He's lost a bunch of fights in a row. This is the old man fighting league. etc. There will still be excitement in the same way that, you know, all these record amount of

people tuned in to watch Ronda. But ultimately, it's a one-off blip for a weekend and the UFC marches on and is suddenly in the White House the next week, you know? Like, I think that sure, Connor McGregor outside of the UFC is incredibly valuable, but I don't know that it actually damages the UFC because they've already gotten what they need out of them. I think, go ahead, go I just want to keep it brief. One hypothetical, one super hypothetical. Conor McGregor loses his next two fights is not competitive in them. Following that, he signs to fight Nate Diaz on Netflix.

Watched or not watched? Absolutely. To a massive degree. To a massive degree. I would think it would probably beat the rousy numbers. Yeah. And so that's the value. I don't think he,

wins or losses are irrelevant to him at that point, right? At that point, Netflix knows that they're not getting Connor McGregor the can't miss MMA fighter, right? I think we all kind of have prepared for that eventuality anyway, but I just feel like if you can pull that type of number, you mentioned Mike Tyson, he's one of those guys that's eternal. He's one of those guys that's eternal that can just pull it because of that nostalgia. As I just said at the very beginning of this, nobody even is focused in on the actual fighting

of the last years. It's only been kind of the controversies. He had some fights against Dustin. Those don't even get mentioned. Nobody even talks about that anymore. It's really just 2016, 2016, 2016, they're just going back there. Even the cowboy fight. The cowboy fight was, nobody talks about it.

And that was a pretty incredible fight. And no one mentions it ever. No. So I just think that value is eternal for him. I don't think it will be diminished much if he loses again. Maybe the answer. You always play on the concept of resolution, dude. I'm just saying, like the Diaz fight, the trilogy, right?

There's so much of this game is predicated on a resolution. So you always have that. I do think he's got to show some kind of competitiveness though. Like if he just looks completely washed or has that no moss moment on the bench or so, you know, you know, it's just something where it just I could see that damaging, but I still

think he would be, he'd come out of it like Rick's, I think he still comes out of it and he's able to do something. He's a natural circus sparker. He's going to be able to do that. But I think his bigger value is if he has at least a competitive fight here. You know, like he's going to, you've got to have that vitality on some level

because there is a sporting sense and a betting sense and all this stuff you want all of that in play and you don't want it to you know you don't want to you don't want to just look like you're just milking it at the end which it probably would at that point right yeah you know i think that if this was july of 2025 and they had yet to sign that deal with paramount i think you could say like they need him i think it's not a coincidence that they waited to have him fight for the first time in five or so years obviously he was supposed to fight two years ago but you know what i mean he was ready to come back before he talked about it on the show until after the deal was signed.

And so, yeah, you can make the case that now they don't necessarily need him because they have a seven-year deal or a six-and-a-half-year deal left. It's all bought and paid for. They don't have to sell pay-per-views anymore. Now, I bet you Paramount wants him. I bet you Paramount would say, yes, please, we want more Conne McGregor, because I think this will be watched by more people than the White House card. I think it's going to do massive numbers.

I think the fact that it's on CBS suggests they want him. And so it's maybe, you know, a split between how much the UFC needs and wants him and how much Paramount who bought all of this in advance needs and wants him as well. You know, Chuck, when we had Conorin Studio, there was this guy on YouTube who I actually really enjoy watching his YouTube channel. His name is Mixed Molly Whoppery. Are you familiar with this gentleman? I am not.

He does great breakdowns with a very sort of Boston-esque sound. Rick, do you know him? It's sensational. I'm not familiar. Okay. Shaheen, you know him. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

It's good stuff. He's great. It's a lot of tongue-in-cheek. A lot of tongue and cheek, but very smart analysis. So shout out to him. Whomever he may be, I don't know who he is. I don't think he ever says his name. He had an interesting take on the Conner that was sitting here

because he said this was a different guy and was raising the question whether he's changed. Not for the reason you may think, but if he's been humbled. Because there were certain things that he has said in this interview and others, but I think mostly in this interview where he was like, hey, are you happy with the deal?

We met in the middle. Hey, you know, the sport, you know, it doesn't need me, but it's good to be back. Connor of six, seven years ago is not saying these things. I am the sport. What do you mean? I am, I should be getting equity. Remember that? At Madison Square Garden.

Not we met in the middle. He was saying a lot of things that the old Connor would never say. Is there a chance that he has been humbled in your opinion? Is there a chance that he's a change guy? I think that he's a master. Like, we used to credit him, like getting out in front of narratives and, you know, creating things. and having big picture.

I feel like he still has that, right? Like, he still has an idea of how he's going to cross. I know that right when he was on your show and he's saying stuff, I know that Pizzi was like skeptical, you know, and I'm sure he's talked about this to you, but like I think the bigger issue that you want to believe sometimes that guys have been through something because if you're reading a book of literature, you're going through a life story.

There has to be like dramatic events in it. And obviously some of the stuff as we went off the top is not savory. You do not like what's going on. with Conner's life. This was literally maybe one of the few things that he could do that you're like, well, if there's salvation, he can still go in there and,

you know, and fight. And this is a sport that forgives. It has a second chance. It always kind of goes off of this. So you kind of wanted, like, I wondered how he would show up. I think I predicted slightly that maybe this would be the case. Like maybe he would come in and he would, you know, be humbler

and try to go about it a different way. It just remains to be seen. Now remember, when he's talking to you, too, he's like, he's talking about material things and, you know, being overblown and, you know, the meaning of life not boiling down to how much money you make and all this, that he's had the Forbes list and all that. But then he's, you know, I was probably three minutes later that he's like, yeah, I'm four times paid higher than the next nearest guy, you know. And I don't think that that goes away. It's prize fighting. He knows it. And he's a businessman.

That side of him still there. But I think it remains to, it has to play out. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes. So I think there's an effort being, you know, I think there's an effort there. All right. So speaking of it playing out, we haven't actually talked about the fight itself. Shaheen, how do you actually see this playing out? I mean, I think it's a lot of what we've hinted at, right?

It's a man who hasn't fought for a half a decade coming off. One of the more severe injuries you can have in this sport injury that the people in the past who have had this injury, suffered this injury, and then come back. They have never been the same. No one, we haven't really seen someone come back really successfully from this. And he's someone who's also hit in his late 30s, who hasn't, again, fought for a half a decade, but also just his peak is so far away from us. I don't think that there's some sort of second, Justin Gehci second chapter coming or Michael Bissping's second chapter coming. Like Max is at the peak of his game. Maybe not the absolute peak, but he's still one of the best damn fighters in the sport. And this just feels like a

really rough matchup to welcome yourself back to the cage bit with, you know? Like, Max Holloway is not a guy who's going to let you breathe. He's not a guy who's going to give you some time to warm back into it. Like, he's going to meet Connor head on and just give him everything he's gotten. Like, Chuck said at the top, like there's a element of revenge too, man. Like, Max's been hearing about this Connor fight for a decade, 13 years. Like, I'm sure very much so that he wants to get this one back and basically maybe do what Dustin did where Justin was able to parlay this into a big money trilogy fight. I'm sure Max is incredibly motivated for this coming off of the BMF title fight that was so

disappointing. So I have Max. I would be surprised. If Connor does win, not a lot of surprise me in this sport. Like Justin winning against the poor. It surprised me. I would be genuinely surprised if Connor comes in and looks like some vintage Connor and pulls this off against someone in Max who I hold in such high regard right now.

Rick, Max is moving up to 170. He did not look great. It was a bad matchup. not making excuses. Connor does have a win over him. I know that was 13 years ago. There's no chance of Connor pulling off the upset here? Oh, I think there's a real chance.

Oh. I think as the, I'm not favoring that outcome. I still think at the end of the day, Max has been competitive more recently with top-level fighters, and I have real concerns about Connor McGregor coming back after the layoff and the injury that he's had. But truth be told, if you're looking at welterweights, I would rather be the one in Connor McGregor who's probably cutting a little bit of weight and has that frame, then Max Holloway, who's probably going to glide onto the scale with like a relatively easy cut.

Connor McGregor looks every bit of what that 170 is going to be. Hell, I think he could probably be a 185 or if he had a few more inches of height. He is just, he's been on good vitamins and he's a massive man, and I feel like he's going to have some power that's going to carry. He's going to really be able to put some power behind it in a way that he couldn't when he was a 155 or coming up to 170 to fight Nate Diaz. I think he's going to put some proper power behind his punches. And I think Max Holloway is going to be in some very early danger.

Now, how long is that going to last? How long is the gas tank going to last? That I don't know. But I do think Max Holloway as somebody who plays a dicey game, right? The thing we have to remember about him, Max Holloway, right? When he's styling, it looks the best that's ever looked. It's incredible. When he's beating up on Calvin Cater to the point that you're like, holy shit, somebody

saved Calvin Cater. It looks fantastic. He's landed so many more significant strikes than anybody in, in history, it's ridiculous. But he's also absorbed more strikes than anybody in history. He gets hit. That is the reality of his game because he's in there for so long. He doesn't have knockout power. Justin Gaichi deciding to plant his feet and throw set aside. He doesn't really have huge knockout power. And he's playing a game where he's there to be hit. He looked great against Ilyat Toporia until Iliot Toporia, a man with more power, hit him. And so if Conner

McGregor can hit him, I have real concerns about Max Holloway's chin holding up to a 170-pound Connor McGregor. I don't think it's the most likely outcome, but I don't think this is some, like, look at the wash guy getting in there to get absolutely blanked by Max. I think this is a live dog. Wow, wow, wow, Chuck, what do you think? Wow. Not that

you can take a ton from 13 years ago, right, but if you remember that fight, do you remember the arsenal of kicks? Like, he was just coming in there, Connor McGregor was throwing all these different kicks. He was creating space and just kind of owning that space. I don't see how he does that coming off of this injury.

You know, even just the mental side of that is going to be very difficult. I just always think back to Chris Wydenman how holstered he seemed against Tavares. Or even, you know, Anderson, Soviet came back way too soon against Nick Diaz. Like those types of things, you take the legs out of the equation more. And I don't know what that would mean. And this is just, I'm talking just vintage McGregor. I don't know what that would mean if you come into a situation like this. Is he going to be able to kind of give him those looks?

But do you guys remember? And I pointed this out before, like, how did you? he ends up when he blows out his knee and he wrestles. Like he takes him to the ground and he grapples, he wrestles with him. That could be an element to this. I mean, this is, it's a weird thing. I know that he's coming back. He wants to put on a show

but dude, he's, if he needs the W, if he really wants the W and you're looking at that Charles Alivera fight, the way that that went down with Holloway and that element is there. I mean, could you see something like that? That might be something that he actually should think about in this fight is actually wrestling a little bit.

Wow. I think that's a nightmare for him, man. You remember, like, absolute Pete Connor. Like, even the very best version of Connor, what was like one of his biggest downfalls, right? Like, his cardio was always suspect to some degree. It's like you have eight good minutes of Connor McGregor and then you start to see a change in this guy. I don't know that that's going to be improved by, you know, a decade out of highly competitive

competition, the injuries, etc. Like, people, we always hear how difficult it is to wrestle. It's justin Gacy, Gachie specifically says he does not wrestle because it makes him tired in the cage. I think Connor goes in there and tries to wrestle. He's gassed by the end of round two. And I mean, what is Max best known for? He has all these volume records in the UFC outlasting dudes, just the snowball rolling down the hill very much Nate Dia style of just the punches and bunches. That feels like an absolute nightmare strategy for Max Holloway.

If you're someone in Connor who hasn't been in the cage in a long time. Enough or not. Be ready to cut this clip. Be ready to cut this clip because. But he's wrestling and we're talking about it. Now, if it doesn't happen, you just get rid of this. But be ready to cut it if we need it. Post Mayweather, the Connor McGregor we saw just isn't interested in like the bouncy, springy kicking.

He just wants to be a boxer. And he's a decent one. He's a pretty damn good boxer. Max Holloway is a fantastic boxer as well. I think it can be fun if they actually exchange. And I think Connor's power is going to be a bit of an equalizer, at least early. And that's why I think he's not out of it. But I, you know, I still think Max can get it.

have done. I'm trying to go all the way back. There's a website called UFC stats where you can see you know stats about fights. The second Porier fight, which everyone calls the first, but it's really the second. The one from January of 2021, 0 for 1 as far as takedowns, did not shoot in the third, which a lot of people consider the second. Also 0 for 1 in the first Nate Diaz fight, but I'm trying to find the last time he successfully landed a takedown. It's probably been a minute. And the last time he had a concerted effort was the Max-Holmway fight. I'm guessing Dennis Seaver.

That's my guess. Is it Dennis? Okay, so I'm at Dennis Seaver, and he was 0-for-oh in the Dennis Seaver fight. Max was the only fight where Connor really went there. That's the only fight. He had to. Yeah. But I'm just, I'm only saying it.

Diego Brandel. Diego Brando I certainly don't think he's going to try to out-wrestle and out-point him for five rounds. I'm pointing out that this may be an option for him at this fight at some point. No, you're right. He was four for five.

He had more successful takedown attempts in that one Max Holloway fight than all the other UFC fights combined. The only other one that he nailed one was the Diego Brando fight a year later when he came back after the ACL. So early wrestling, Connor McGregor, was a sight to behold.

I'm really curious to see what happens come Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, the walkout. You know, they've got some competition right now in terms of the sports world with the World Cup, taking everyone's attention away from everything, taking the sports world by storm. I can't wait to see the reaction. I can't wait to hear about the numbers.

I can't wait to see if they release the numbers. I thought it was very interesting that the UFC was so ready and willing for the first time seemingly ever to release their numbers on Paramount. Was that because they were trying to maybe make the president happy? Was it a response to the Netflix numbers from a month and a half or so ago? Very interesting if they're going to do it again.

They didn't do it for the Hamzad and Sean Strickland fight. And by all, you know, measures, that was a big deal as well. So I'm really curious to see how that all plays out. And then, of course, how the actual fight plays out. Let me ask you guys about Patty Pimble, because that to me, like, is being completely overshadowed because of Connor. didn't look great, loses the interim title fight. So much has changed.

Justin Gachi is champion now. Ili Jor is not. We thought it was going to be Justin losing to Patty and Patty fighting Ilya at the White House, maybe, all this and more. Shaheen, what do you think about Patty Pimblit as he heads into a fight against a

rejuvenated BSD, a guy who we kind of rode off a couple years ago and now all of a sudden is on quite a run at 155. Yeah, how bizarre must this be? for Patty where he's been connected to Connor for so long, just whether it's like comparisons or some like sort of potential future matchmaking. And now he finally ends up on a Connor card.

And it's like this Connor fight, which is already weird enough. And Patty himself like just comes off this halacious beating against Justin Gachie where he was one step away from, you know, fulfilling what most people thought he couldn't within the UFC, becoming that interim champion. And all of a sudden now he feels so far away from it. I mean, this is an interesting fight, man.

This is a really compelling co-main event. And this is a good, I think a spot for Patty to be able to propel himself back into a space where maybe he existed in January where it felt like coming into that gate sheet fight. He was the favorite. A lot of people for the first time maybe ever in his UFC career were actually starting to believe in him and feel like, oh, like, is this guy actually better than we actually ever intended and expected him to be? Whereas for BSD, like he is riding the second wave so hard, right?

I think it's four straight now since he had that little losing streak. and he's looked like an absolute monster. Like that is not a man I would want to face right now. Whereas with Patty, like you always have questions coming off of a beating like that, how someone responds in their first fight back after just such a impactful night on their career. I think it's a sensational fight.

Do you feel like he has it in him, Chuck, to bounce back? Because this to me, feel like if I was guiding Patty, I'm not taking this fight after that loss. This is not the fight that I'm coming back with. That's my mindset on it too. I mean, you hate to play the game where you look at a guy's conquest and you're like, oh, well, you know, you start to put

asterisk on them or you start to diminish them, but the paddy conquest before that fight, right? Like, you know, they were all long-in-tooth yet, Ferguson, you had King Green, what was the other one? It was Chandler, right? So he had these guys that you're supposed to, you're supposed to

win these fights. Like for a guy who's going to be worth of salt, like he was supposed to win these fights. He wins them. He goes against Gaichy, and I thought that this was the true litmus test because now you're going against a guy who is certainly more competitive in that sense than these those than that list I just named and I felt like he put his best foot forward and he was still incapable of winning that fight and it was almost the type of thing where you like I felt like if they met a bunch of times you might get the same result a bunch

of times just did not look like he had you know he didn't have like extra stuff in his toolbox to get that done so he he goes in a critical fight in that sense. like he's either he kind of like loses to another guy who is kind of perennially in that top space even if he's not quite a contender he's right up there and like so you lose this fight and it puts patty i think into a bad position that you know he had been defying the odds and kind of staying where he's at and now you're going to start to get back to that situation where he's not quite the guy right so i feel like this is a critical situation for him to go in there and honestly if he gets this one If he's able to beat a guy like this who's been just kind of like, you know, rolling through people these last four, really only a couple of bad fights.

He was doing fine in the Porre fight, at least in the first round before it all went south for him. You know, I think that if he, if he's able to go in there and win this, you could, you could say, okay, this is his best, this is his best victory to date. And you could get back onto this paddy train and it's, you know, and maybe that's like this could be the catalyst of something. but dude, I'm with you, man. This is the toughest draw, and I'm a little surprised that they took it, to be honest, man. It's just, I don't like his chances in this fight. Credit to them for taking it. What do you think, Rick?

I think he's fully capable of weathering the storm here. I don't know if he wins this fight, but I think Patty Pimbled is probably better than most of us want to give him credit for, and he's continued to be doubted. And for good reason, right? I don't think that it's for bad reason. The wins on his resume, as Chuck pointed out, there's holes in that. There's flaws in his best win is probably King Green.

And that's not saying much. Like that is not what you want to see if you're a top level fighter. But that fight with Justin Gachi made me think, in January, I thought to myself, okay, I kind of finally know where Patty Pimble's at. He's good enough to be against like a top guy and give a valiant effort, but he's not good enough to just get it done. But now my ceiling has completely raised when Justin Gachi becomes UFC champion. and the guy in Iliate Tepore that everybody thought was inevitable

and was going to be the king and Justin Gaci was, ah, you know, that was a consolation prize and now he's going to be fighting the real champion. When that guy ends up doing it, the ceiling raises back up for me on Patty Pimbley where I go, shit, if you can hang in with the champion of the, the lightweight champion of the UFC, Justin Gachie, maybe I judge too harshly. And so another, we'll have another opportunity to get data on Patty Pimblit, right? The Justin Gachie fight was one point. I really don't make much of the stuff that happened before.

this, but he showed a level of toughness that I think he can weather the early storm of BSD. Most people wilt under that type of pressure. He is just absolutely relentless and he's powerful and he's dangerous in the submissions. I don't think Patty Pimblit is just going to be somebody who gets rolled over. And so I'm interested to see if Patty can hit that second gear because Chuck, I think, said it properly, or it might have been Shaheen, where the toolbox was just empty at a certain point. He used everything. He threw the wrenches at Justin Gachie and there was nothing left in that toolbox. If he's been able to add in the time since, I don't think he's out of this fight. I think there's opportunities to be successful against BSD that

Paddy Pimbled has the skill set for. Let's see if he can implement that. So I want to know. And if he wins, Ilya versus Patty is a fight that would feed families forever. The UFC could book that in any part of Europe, I mean, ideally Spain, but any part of Europe and just absolutely sell out of soccer stadium. What about Patty versus Connor? Sure. Fuck yeah. Let's do it. You know, like there's a scenario, Connor wins, Patty wins, Patty wins, Connor loses. They both lose. I could see that being something that they want to do.

And maybe the reason why, Chuck, maybe we're thinking that this isn't going to match up because we're still not giving Justin the credit that he deserves. Maybe we're forgetting how good Patty looked up until Justin and we're like, what the hell happened there? Maybe Justin is just on a whole different level and it's still hard to process considering not that long ago he was getting knocked out but Max, but he deserves that credit.

Did you guys happen to hear that Rick thinks Gable Steve is the best heavyweight in the world right now, like pound for pound. That's not exactly what I said. He said... Something along those lines. He's beating everyone not named Tom Aspinall, yes? Yeah, I mean, the heavyweight division is just woeful, man. Cyril Gun too, even this new Surrell Gun.

Definitely Surrogon. Wow. I think he'd have more problems with Josh Hokit than Serul Gan, if I'm being honest. What a matchup, by the way. Wow. The wrestling of Serul Gan is not holding up to Gable Stephson. They could have booked that right now, And I'd take Gable Steven

Who do you have in Hokit, Stevenson? See, that's more interesting, but yes, Gable. Wow. I don't think anybody but Tom Aspinall is truly going to give this guy's problems as he ascends. Who wins that fight? Do you think he beats Aspinall?

Yeah, probably. No, probably not. Not right now. Give him a few years. Oh, I thought you said a few, like, I thought you were going to say, like, a few fights. Nah, no, he's got to get his ears wet. I'll be on it.

Okay, let me ask you a question about this fight. Did you guys expect them to be fighting somebody better? Point blank. No. Maybe not for the first one, but... Really? Well, you... He shouldn't fight anyone good for, like, another year.

I mean, the Derek Lewis-type fight could have been... Like, Josh Holman got that fight. You don't think... Very raw. He's still very wrong. No, man. I think you're really discounting, like... This guy's a superhuman athlete,

but, like, I think you're really discounting how much it takes to become a good MMA fighter. Like, what about a good MMA? I think you're discounting how many good MMA fighters there are on heavyweight. Oh, man. This is not Brock Lezder, and we are... are not in 2000 like no we are no we're really not actually are

Shahid I promise you're not the heavy weights of 2026 are absolute dog shit I promise I'm telling you that I so badly wish the UFC would have booked the gone fight so I could have put all of the money I would have I would have taken your bet for sure so is it possible that you guys are

sort of agreeing in that Shaheen is saying the 2008 heavyweight division is way better and And a guy like Brock was just a freak and he could go in there and make a name off of a Frank Mir. But in this case, Gable may not be Brock just yet. But also what Rick is saying is true. Like, the heavyweight division is not good in 2026.

Josh Hockett is because everybody sucks. Is Exhibit. Yeah. But Josh Hockett has been a fighter for a while. Gable Stephson has not been a fighter for even a year. But a sort of mid, you know, like he wasn't, you know, Neltaire wasn't keeping him around, you know. They didn't say like we've got something in this guy.

I just think he can I wonder if his last fight the spinning back kick took the kick but like still got hit if they said you know what let's just let's slow our role just a little bit take some time

I wish they would let's be smart there's no rush here there's no rush here if you think that Derek Lewis that fought at the White House was getting Gablesis you're out of your fucking mind that's not the problem though

that's not so I could probably be Eric Luzz you're legit insane if you thought that but that's not I guess nobody's taking Ellison then. If he goes in there and fights Derek Lewis, it beats Derek Lewis, you have a new problem where he is now in that level of that conversation. You can't go backwards.

You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. You have to give him good opposition. Sounds good. You are going to quickly expose the fact that he's still a newcomer to this game. Like, man, it's not, you don't want him to be in that conversation. I think you're, I think you're mistaking my confidence. I think that's exactly where they want him. I think he could beat all those guys.

Let me ask you, Shane. Let me ask you, Shane. Does he beat Sergei Spivak? No, not right now. Does he beat? Does he beat Walter Walker? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not confident about that.

Jayla Brown is in a top 50 NBA player. Does he beat Waldo Cortez-A Costa? Absolutely not. Wow, okay, all right. I think Waldo smokes him. A year from now, I think it's a different conversation. But this isn't Brock Lesder coming in here who's a 300-pound monster of a man. Like this is a very different conversation.

Gable Stevens is not like this superhumanly large guy. Like he is a average size. Yeah, he's a better, more competent striker. Does he meet? From what? You've seen that from what? His footage in Mexico. In Brock Lesnar?

Yeah, the footage that I saw, he looked better than Brock Lesnar. But Brock comes into a game where Randy Couture is the heavyweight champion. And Randy Couture was a light heavyweight and Brock was able to physically over the When Hokit's heavyweight champion, he's going to have a chance to. to do the same thing. Does he beat Mc Parkin? Does he beat McParkin? Yeah.

Okay, all right. So that's 14 in the U.S. That's what I'm saying. But you don't want, it is a waste of, it is a waste of Gable Steveson to put him in that conversation already. Because you've got to give him time

to get used to the UFC, get used to the C-Lays, get used to that level of competition. The best guy, this guy has fought so far. The best man he's fought so far is sub-bombin. Yeah, guess what? That guy will be talking about 12 at heavyweight in the UFC. I'm somewhere in between you guys, I think.

I don't know. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I feel like he can beat some of these guys. But I mean, you've got to see it. Let's see what he does. What is he? Like a minus 2,600 favorite or something like that, like in this fight?

I think he's a solid top eight UFC heavyweight right now. I may change my mind come Saturday and make him top five. But I think Josh Hokit's ascension has led me to believe that. Light heavyweight Josh Hokie. climbing the ranks. I mean, it's, it's comically easy. You're watching that fight against Curtis Blades and saying that was comically easy for Josh Hokit, because I'm going to say that that was probably not. As a light heavyweight? Yeah, that should have been harder. Curtis Blades, this is my point, right?

Kurt, you're citing these guys as like, these are the established top guys. Curtis Blades should have beaten Josh Hokit, but did not because heavyweight is not good. Why should he have? Why should he? These are the guys that you're saying are the, the reason Gable Steve said can't be in this Convo right now is because these guys are the old guard. They're the established. They're too good for him right now. But they're not. That's the point. They're just not that good. The heavyweights are not good in the UFC. I'm not saying there. I'm not out here defending the heavyweight division. You are. I'm just saying to compare Gable Stevenson who's been training for less than a year.

He's he's been doing a guy. Josh Hogan who's yeah, man, how many Olympians have we seen coming to MMA and fail miserably? Like it's not a guarantee. Obviously I think Gable Steven is going to be a champion. Like to act as if this is some foregone conclusion that the man who's done this is. Any other division, it would not be, right? Bo Nickel, that's not like an automatic, right? Because those divisions have talent. Heavyweight, don't got it. Just don't got it.

I think Cyril Ghan just showed Alex Pereira that he had a decent amount of talent. Gable Steven versus Alex Pereer. Who's winning up? I don't know. Probably Alex. I know. Oh, what a fight. Those takedowns are going to be.

You got to get the takedown. Oh, yeah. Gable Steven, champ, soon. Hey, man, I'm not like off the gable steveson bandwagon. Again, this guy's a future champion. This is great. I think this is a very fair debate. I think there is great points being raised by the two of you. A little bit higher level comp in the first match.

It would have been nice. The good news is we'll find out very soon if he is UFC caliber. Whatever that means in the year of 2026, we'll find that on Saturday if he's a UFC caliber heavyweight. This has been a blast. You guys were phenomenal. Love doing this show. We will continue to do it more and more often.

Have no fear. It's been a lot of fun. I remind you come Wednesday, usual time in Las Vegas, Hauwanis show Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. We're doing a live show on Friday evening with Demetrius Johnson watch party post show Saturday from Vegas. Hohani show Monday of next week. To recap it all, so much more to come. We're just getting started, my friends, but we do hope that you enjoyed this particular episode of The Beat. And so I say, for Shaheen, For New York, Rick, for Chuck. I'm Ariel. Thank you so very much for watching.

We will see you from out in Las Vegas. For now, though, we say good day and talk to you later.