The Ariel Helwani Show - The Uncrowned Beat | Shakur Stevenson released by Zuffa Boxing, fallout from Daniel Dubois KOing Fabio Wardley, more

Episode Date: October 24, 2026

On this episode of The Uncrowned Beat, Ariel Helwani is joined by Dan Canobbio, Naji Grampus, and Alan Dawson to discuss boxing hot topics including: Shakur Stevenson securing his release from Zuffa Boxing (01:39), continued attacks in Sauda Arabia and how it will impact Canelo's upcoming bout (24:32), fallout from Daniel Dubois' massive win over Fabio Wardley (33:32), Sebastian Fundora potentially facing Jaron 'Boots' Ennis (35:52), and more.

Hello and welcome to a brand new edition of the uncrowned beat on this fourth week of October, 2000 and 26. Hi again, everyone. I'm Mario Hawani inside our New York City studio. Today on the program, we focus on the sweet science, the world of boxing, as I've said time and again, the most interesting combat sport to cover in 2026, sometimes for all the wrong reasons. Today we'll have a bit of the good, a bit of the bad and some in between. We've got a phenomenal panel for all of you.

We've got the returning Dan Kenobio of Inside Boxing fame, also CompuBox fame. He's one half of my favorite boxing podcast. He's here with us once again today. Hello, Dan. How are you? Hello, everybody. Let's talk. And Arrow, you always say, like, the boxing world is buzzing.

It's the most interesting thing. I'm like, is it really? And then something like yesterday happens. We'll get to. And I'm excited to be here today. That is a great tease, Dan. Thank you very much for that. We say hello for the very first time to one of our own.

He does a tremendous job of covering combat sports for Uncrown.com. He is England's own Alan Dawson. Hello, Alan. How are you? Hey, Ariel. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me on. Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. Also a pleasure to say hello once again to New York's finest. Mr. Najee Granpas of Cigar Talk does a tremendous job of covering the sport on his YouTube channel and social media as well. Najee, great to see you again.

Ariel, great to see you. It's a great day in New York City. You see the hat. I do. I do. I do. and I have my very own right over there. If you, let's give them the full screen. The full shot right there.

Let's go full. Ah, there it is. Yes, okay, okay. Now we can go back to the four box, guys. We're all repping the orange and blue. All right, jents, as Dan alluded to, yesterday, a fascinating and somewhat shocking day in the world of boxing. Back in July, July 9th, to be exact,

we found out that Shakur Stevenson was signing with Zufa Boxing. He was teaming up with Dana White and Nick Conn and TKO, and this seemed a little. little bit out of left field. He always kind of felt like, hmm, the kind of guy who wouldn't be interested in what Zufa was doing. But, you know, they were making the big push and they were promising big things. July, August, September, where's the fight for Shakur Stevenson? Over the last few weeks, we were hearing a lot of talk, especially on social media between Shakur and Devin Haney. And it seemed like they were focusing on a November 28th date in Atlanta, Georgia

to get this fight, but they were going to do it on the zone. It was very complicated. And then yesterday, out of nowhere, we get a video from Shakur Stevenson, Dan, telling us that he has been released. He asked for his release from Zufa, and he's going on his way. He put out this tweet, video below it, about an eight or so minute video, but didn't get into all the details as far as, like, what truly, truly happened. Now, there have been some reports online, which to me feel like they're all coming from Zufa, to be honest, about him asking for too much money, all that and then some. First, let me get your initial reaction to all of this, Dan. Are you shocked? that three months after signing, Shakur Stevenson is no longer a member of Zufa boxing.

Yes, I'm a, I'm shocked. When I came across Twitter, I was having an espresso, I'm having my breakfast, and I thought it was AI. I thought it was like some type of, we're getting punked here. Because you just don't see this in boxing too often. You don't see this in combat sports, especially not on the UFC side, but their ironclad contracts. But boxing is a sport of litigation. It's a sport where you get signed into a contract that those are like almost not as bad as UFC contracts, but they're pretty long.

And I've known a lot of fighters that have got into squabbles with their promoter over fights, over money, over contracts. And it goes on for months. It goes on for years. Andre Ward, Mikey Garcia, even my podcast partner, Chris Algeri, was on the shelf because of promotional issues. So you don't really see a time in the sport where you see it's so amicable. You see it just, they just part ways.

And it got me thinking about, okay, why? is this happening. And you know, there's three sides to every story. There's my side. There's your side. And there's the truth. We heard from Shakur's side, even though he didn't give a lot of details. We're yet to hear from Zufa's side. There's stuff trickling out. Do we believe it? Do we not believe it? I'm sure Dana White's going to get asked about this. And he's got to be very diplomatic about how he handles this because this is a star, star fighter, signed to their upstart promotion. He came in saying, we're going to change the game. I can make any fight. I can cut through all the BS and boxing, then they signed the bigger, one of the biggest names in the

sport and he doesn't get a single fight? I don't know how this is anything other than a failure for Zoufa. I don't want to hear that, oh, they saved money. Chacore wasn't going to give them any return on their investment. You're an upstart promotion. You have the biggest star of the sport. He doesn't fight a single time. Not only that is your whole MO as a company is we're going to overpay. We're going to spend money. We give $15 million to Connor, Ben. We over. We over pay for a lot of our stars, and now you have a guy that it's actually fans want to tune in, good or bad. So it was very shocking to answer your question, and there's a lot to to dive into when it comes to why this happened, how it happened, and all that.

Alan, you wrote on X yesterday, Zufa's debut year is in shambles. Explain why you feel that way. It just made me think there's a meme in British politics of this old lady on a street when another general election had been called. And she's like, oh, no, not another one. And I can just picture the UFC of Zufa PRs looking at the latest and another line of bad news and thinking, oh, no, not another one. You know, we go from overspending on Connor Ben,

only to get knocked out by Ryan Garcia. Failing to sell Johnny Fisher in East London is akin to struggling to sell a bagel in New York. I mean, what are we doing here? They have the entire upper bowl curtained out. You know, Dana White losing a war of words with Eddie Hearn. and then signing arguably, you know, the most skillful fighter on the planet, only to release him a few months later.

Per secure, you know, Shakur failed to kind of deliver the fights he wanted. There was a great fight that would have been a good technical one with Devin Haney. I actually think the Mani Pachial, and I know people won't agree, I think that would have been a really good fight because in boxing we have this succession. You know, Oscar de La Jolla did it with Mani Pachial and also to Floyd Mayweather. Floyd Mayweather did it with Canello, even though Floyd Wynwell. You know, Canello refused to do it with David Benavides. You know, Pacquiao, I think, is still willing to fight.

He fought Mario Barrios. I think he should have won that fight. Pacquiao and Shakur Stevenson, I think, would have been okay. You know, Shakur isn't too big of a fighter. You know, Pacquiao's pretty well-established at World to Eight, Super World to Eight. I actually think that would have been a pretty good match to get Shakur from being such a well-respected, technically brilliant fighter in boxing to suddenly being a mainstream in. interesting fighter. So there were options that Zufa could have done and they would have,

you know, each of those would have been, you know, particularly strong fights for, you know, one of two reasons with Devin Haney. That would have been an excellent technical chess match. But to lose him, I think, is a cataclysmic message to not just other promoters, but particularly top level fighters, whether you can actually get the big fights that those big fighters would have wanted. Naji, Dan alluded to Connor Ben, as did Alan. And that, and that, number, that $15 million number that has been attached to Connor Ben when he initially signed with Zufa, fought Regis Progrey, and then eventually Ryan Garcia for the belt in September, seems to have now been the benchmark for everyone. In both the UFC and in boxing, like, we want

that number or more. And yesterday, in the aftermath of all this, some reports came out probably most notably from Sean Zattel saying that, you know, Shakur wanted 15 million to fight Jose Valenzuela and Zufa wanted to pay him $7 million. into headline in Newark, and they just couldn't, you know, they couldn't fall on the right number. And the term that I continue to see is the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. I failed to understand how three months could change all of that. But what do you think? Like who, based on what we know right now, who are you blaming for this divorce? Well, I think that, you know, to me, it's, it was shocking. Obviously, on cigar talk, I tried to get the biggest interview.

So when I saw this, I reached out to Chaucourt Davidson like, dude, what is going on? Can you come on the show and talk about it? He said that he wasn't going to do interviews, but one of the questions I asked him is what actually happened. So I was confused just like everybody else, but one of the things that he told me that, you know, I feel I can discuss here was that there was a breach of contract. He mentioned that there was a breach of contract and whatever happened, I don't know the specifics of what that is, but whatever the breach of contract was, it allowed him to get out of his deal. I know looking at his formal statement that he put on YouTube, he mentioned that he wants to be his own promoter. He said that, you know, I'm starting my own promotion company and I'm open to partnering with anyone else, which to me seems like there's sort of a power dynamic there, right? Like when you take a step in business to become your own promoter, that means you're looking to control your own destiny.

You're looking to be the one negotiating these fights. You're looking to be more a part of the business than you would be just signed. to somewhere else. So I'm not too sure, you know, who's right if there's a money play here, if it had to do with money or whatever the case was. But I do note that he did mention specifically that there was a breach of contract and he wasn't happy about it. And so I know, look, Dan, I follow you on social media as well. You have been known to go back and forth with Shakur. Sometimes he can be viewed as, you know, a bit of a troublemaker, a malcontent, tough to deal with and whatnot. I'm failing to understand how he's the bad guy in all this,

but I think that's what's being painted. I'll ask you that. question. Do you blame him for this? Are his expectations two eyes? He's one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world, in my opinion, I think we all agree, probably top four, top five at worst. Why shouldn't he be making what Connor Ben is making and then some? I did reach out to Shakur, too, in the DMs and he said,

fight me. Stay away for me. Leave me alone. No, I didn't. I don't know who exactly is the blame. I think it's too fresh. I think we have to figure out, we have to dissect it a little bit. I really want to hear what Dana has to say. Yes. I'm very, very curious about how he, quote, quote, spins this, how he just reacts because you can't go all in and just trash Chaucor Stevenson, because that is not going to attract future marquee names. And then if he tells the truth, then we're going to, I mean, he very rarely does that as well.

Like a lot of promoters don't do that. So I think he's in an interesting spot here, too. Going back to what Naji said, there was a breach of contract, something that I've seen from in UFC contracts and Arrow, you can probably attend. to this too is like if they give a certain amount like give a certain amount of time to make a fight and if you don't come up with a fight for for chakur then you can get out of a contract uh that could be the case here i just think it's so fresh like there's like i said there's three sides to it we've only heard one side i want to hear dana's side uh then we're going to have to react from there but it is hard to put the blame on chikor for this because even when he signed with zufa the first thing there's

quote cards being, you know, posted after the fact that I'm signing with Zufu because they could make the biggest fights. They could make the best fights. Right. Well, we all knew deep down inside it was because they have the deepest pockets and they gave him the most or told him he'd get the most money. I don't think there was any type of signing bonus. I don't think they paid him anything up front.

It was going to be based on a certain amount of fights. So if you're going to fight Manny Pachia, we can give you this much. If you're going to fight a Rayao Venezuela, you're going to get this much like a Devin Haney or Ryan Garcia and so forth. and was probably a little bit higher than what DeZone was willing to give him. So I think we got to see. I know that's not really the greatest answer, but it's so fresh. And this is so it's so entangled. This is like a web. We got to figure out what is the truth if we ever figure it out. Yeah. Well, listen, I'm sorry, I did just want to make this point. I spoke to Rio Venezuela on my

live stream yesterday. He's the one that it was alleged that, you know, there was a $7 million, dollars potentially to fight him. And when I asked him about, you know, was there anything on the table or any contracts or anything? And he said no. He said that there weren't, you know, any contracts or, you know, any talks that advanced further than something that, you know, was potential. So I do question, you know, and again, respect to Sean to tell. I love him and his work. But I do question where the information came from and if those numbers are actually accurate. Because according to Ryo, there weren't any, you know, substantive talks that actually took place between, you know, a fight with Shakur Stevenson and himself. Okay, that's really interesting. Great reporting on both fronts there, reaching out to Shakur and Ryo.

Ryo did tweet at 205 Eastern yesterday, so right in the aftermath, he'd rather leave all that money on the table than get in the ring with me. So is he lying to us or is he lying to you, Naji, because he is insinuating that there was a deal on the table by this tweet? Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, is it? We have it up, check it out, Cigar Talk, live stream. But listen, I think what he was saying is, you know, I'm sure there were some kind of talks or whatever the case was, right? That only makes sense that the two guys that Zufa has at 135 would try to fight each other. But Shakur has made it clear from the beginning.

As soon as we saw this deal, Shakur went on social media and said, you know, you lost it Gary Russell. I don't think you're that good. I'm not fighting you. So I just questioned how real any talks were as far as money was concerned. if Shakur already made it clear that, you know, he wasn't going to fight him. And Ryo said that the talks never really advanced far enough. So I just don't know how, you know, how much money conversations could have actually took place with the information that we have.

Alan, there's some guys. So guys, we saw that there's money. There's money. Right. Ariel, there's like Venezuela in that tweet didn't put out a specific figure. But he knows there's a lot of money in the pot because that's what Zufa is. And it comes from the top. It comes from Sela.

It comes from Saudi Arabia. It comes from Turkey. and it's trickling down. I think that's a big thing here, too, is they're pulling back. They're not spending as much money on the boxing operation, and it trickled down to Shakur.

So that's when I say it's like a tangled web. Sure. That's a big part of it. And the web is even more tangled when you consider the whole TKO operation. Alan, you cover MMA as well. And in these times right now, you've got the UFC middleweight champion,

Sean Strickland, who is openly tweeting, hey, I want to be released from my contract because I don't like the fact that Conorbed is making $15 million. Connor McGregor is making 30. I just beat the boogeyman, Hamza Chimayev, and I'm making peanuts comparatively.

And the UFC laughs it off and says, no, you just signed a deal in May. They're well within the rights to say that. But if you're Sean Strickland today, or even Johnny Bones-Jones, who, you know, Jake Paul was tweeting about yesterday, like, why aren't you calling the brass being like, why does this guy get to leave whenever he wants?

And I'm stuck here. It feels like they're playing a very dangerous game, TKO, that is, where they're treating the box. a hell of a lot differently than the UFC fighters, the UFC fighters who made this whole thing into what it is today aren't getting the same liberties as the boxers. We remember back in the day when all this started, Eddie Hearn saying there's going to be a mutiny. This is all going to blow up in their face. And we'll get to more of Eddie in a moment.

But do you think that if you're a UFC fighter, in particular, a champion who's upset with their contract, you're calling the UFC up today and saying like, yo, what's going on over there? Why can't I get these same rights? How do they handle that, Alan? Yeah, I mean, there's two things going on. one with the strictness of the contracts that the UFC fighters are, you know, having to operate under. And then, two, the disparity of the finances that the Zufa Boxers are apparently enjoying. I don't think this is a problem of, you know, TKO's own creation, ultimately. And I don't know how they could have done it any differently unless they were able to get the Mahmadali Revival Act passed a hell of a lot sooner.

I think they probably thought they would have had that passed sooner. and then they wouldn't have to kind of operate like, you know, another fifth wheel in the boxing promotion space, just doing the same as everyone else who comes in, just like Eddie Hearn did when he apparently had a one billion dollar war chest to try and infiltrate America. Just like Turkey Alashik originally had a couple of years ago, you know, just with this kind of limitless checkbook, Zufa came in with, you know, a bit of money and, you know, now it looks like the money's drying up and there's questions being asked by, you know, the MMA fighters. A mess. Also, by the way,

the WWE fighters, or excuse me, wrestlers can say the same thing. Their contracts are quite restrictive as well. We've talked about this in the past, Dan, Dana continues to say, judge me at the end of the year. Golly, December 31st is rapidly approaching. They cannot be ending the year, in my opinion, in a worst way. Like, if they would have had, you know, the Haney Shakur fight in Atlanta, November 28, that's Thanksgiving weekend.

All right, that's a pretty good way. But as Eddie Hearn continues to remind us, they haven't done a show in America, Zufa boxing, that is, since July, that Eddie. Edgar Berlanga, Richard and Hitchens show that was at the theater, not even MSG, the Infosist Theater right next door. They had the Johnny Fisher show that Alan alluded to. They've got another one coming up with CBS. Maybe one more.

I'm pretty sure that's the only one left on the books. Obviously, there's Fury Joshua. Who knows how much true involvement they have in all of this. How are you going to grade Zufaboxing at the end of the year based on what's transpiring here, Dan? Looks a lot like my high school transcript, my college transcript. all over the place. There were some good days. There were some good subjects. There were some bad subject.

Like you said, they started off pretty strong. As much as I didn't really like understand those apex types of shows, they were solid matchmaking and they were consistent. They came out of the gate. What was it, January, February, March, where boxing was in a slow period. They had the Paramount. They still have the Paramount deal. They had a strong broadcast partner. Pretty good, pretty good fights. And then, you know, you started, you had a Ryan Garcia, Connor Ben, fight in there. You dabble with some ring shows that have a Zufa affiliation as well, but it's not ending strong.

It's ending their, they're struggling to get to the finish line. This was a huge blow. But all the other flips, I don't play devil's advocate here, too. Like, I don't know how savvy, like, their PR team is or how savvy they are at the top. Like, are they going on Twitter, which I realize it's not real life. And in fact, it's a hellscape. But are they looking at how the fans kind of are looking at Shakur Stevenson or how they perceive Shakor Stevenson, because I'm on Twitter all day long, boxing Twitter.

and the narrative that's being painted by fans right now is that Shakur got fired and he deserved to get fired because he doesn't deserve that type of deal he doesn't fight elite fighters which I mean he's coming off of as a Peta and Tiofimo back to back I think that's pretty damn good

in today's standards but the narrative is like Shakur got fired he wore out his welcome Dana is right Dana gives you a list of names and if you don't fight those guys there's the door because Dana's a badass that side like this UFC

and Zufa, I should say, do they, did they see that? Did they think they would win this, this PR battle? Because I don't see how it could, it's anything other than pretty embarrassing. Like you sign, I've never heard of this. You sign the biggest fighter. It doesn't get a single fight, you just let him dip. And you're a brand new promotion. It's not like Top Ring where Bob Aram, you know, get out of here, he's seen it all,

or one of the other traditional boxing promotions. You're the new kid on the block. Like, you have to hold on to Shakur and build this kid up even more than he ready is. So I'm looking at it from a lot of different ways. It goes with my main theme of this is so new and this is such a new thing for me to try to understand as a boxing media member and some that's been in it for a long time because I had never seen a fighter just get released like that. We've never seen the money being thrown. Never seen the lines being crossed with broadcasts and who's fighting under which banner or network. So it's very tangled once again.

Najee, can I ask you how do you think this plays out? At the end of the day, where do we see Shakur fight with who, with which promotion? banner against two. It's shocking to me, in addition to all of this, his last fight was in January. It's almost the end of October. And that was one of his best performances, if not the best, considering the guy he fought Tafima Lopez at what weight 140, the stage, MSG. How do you think this plays out for Shakur?

Listen, I think Shakur is just ready to get back in the ring. When I watched the statement, that seemed like one of the focal points. He mentioned in the video, he's like, I've been training for eight weeks strong and I'm ready and, you know, the things that were promised to me haven't come to fruition. So it seems like he just wants to get back in the ring. And I know that he mentioned publicly right after signing the Zufa deal that DeZone had come and offered him, they matched the offer. Who knows what the numbers look like, but they matched the offer, but they came too late.

So that's why he signed with Zupa first. So maybe that DeZone deal is still on the table. But one thing we do know that this is not a great look for Zufa boxing. Like in the words of Jay Z and Kanye West, welcome to the jungle. I think that now Dana has come over here in boxing and sees that this is a totally different landscape than what you have done at the UFC just between the business, but also the way fighters' mentalities are and what it takes to actually get these fights done. I think that Dana White is seeing it firsthand that it might not be as easy as maybe it looks

or even the great amount of resources that they have just between the war chest. of money and paramount, you know, it's not that easy. We also just saw recently on Brian Custer's podcast. I saw that he had David Benavides who mentioned that he was looking to sign a three-fight deal with his own promotion in conjunction with PBC. So that's another big star who, it seems like, may not be going to Zupa. So, you know, the pickings are getting slim as far as the top guys. And I think right now, especially with the, you know, judges at the end of the year,

Dana has to now pull something out of the hat to finish. off the year strong because that was a black eye and I'm sure Eddie Hern is somewhere smoking a cigar. No one intended. Oh, he is. You didn't see the video? I saw him do a little dance move, yeah. Yeah. He also had the selfie with Joshua.

Yeah. He was creating. Anthony, can you just do something for me to smile? I'm going to put the cigar and Joshua's like, oh, yeah. No, that was a. He was recreating the turkey Dana FaceTime picture. Come on, Dan. Get with the time. He was he was hitting them below the belt.

One other thing, though, before we move, there it is. That's AI? That's AI, because if you say about it. Well, I don't know if we have the original. That was the pick. That was the Dana White Turkey pick, Dan. But, like, that could easily be made without a guy. He could just FaceTime Joshua and just say, hey, did you hear?

For sure, but they're actually wearing the exact same thing with the exact same background. It looks like the same cigar. You're online way more than me. You're chronically online way more than me. Listen, I pay attention to these details, Dan, as a, you know, a well-versed journalist. What did you have to say? I want to go back for it real quick. You just asked Najee who you think Chachor's going to fight.

I'm going to go back even further. Alan, there's no way you want to see Shakur fight Pachia. You were kidding, right? I would say there's no way I want to see it. But I can see the logic in if you want to help turn Shakur into, you know, well-known name in boxing to a well-known name in mainstream media. You do that by piggybacking off the name of somebody who's already well-known in mainstream boxing, which would be- I was disgusted by that.

Why were you so disgusted, Dan? Because to the age, I understand Alan's thinking. I totally agree. It's like a WVE thing from your world. You put the guy over. But like when Canelo fought Floyd and we see it other times, like Floyd was still like in his late 30s and he actually won the fight so it didn't exactly work.

Packia is 48. He's 49 years old. Like there are other, and on top of it, there are other worthy opponents for Shakur to fight. Like Tank Davis, you know, throw money at him. Devin Haney, it's right there. So I found the Pacquiao stuff to be kind of crazy. and according to some of Sean Sotel's reporting was, or what Zufa apparently was telling him,

is that Choucaor was dead set or like really wanted that Pachial fight, which is, I think, even more embarrassing. I agree with you, by the way, if it was on the Netflix Fury H.A. card is like, I understand it from a Netflix perspective. It's sort of in the same vicinity. That's what they want. As, you know, Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson.

But yes, of course. I'd much rather see him fight Devin Haney or anyone who, you know, relatively close to his age. By the way, guys, there's a couple good shows this weekend on DeZone. Oshaki Foster versus Emmanuel Navarate is a great fight. Dalton Smith back in action once again against Alberto Pollo. But next weekend, October 31st, is the return of Canel Alvarez against Christian and Billy. Alan, can I ask you, we are sitting here on October 20th taping this. That's 11 days away. This fight happening in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. They're putting out

daily alerts the United States government about how dangerous it is, how Americans should not go to that region. The airport is closed after several bombs hitting via the Houthis out of Iran. It seems like a very, very, very unsafe place to be. And some members of the boxing community, like literally in the, I'm not talking about the media, the Robert Garcia's of the world saying, like, this is crazy. He has a fight on the undercard. Why are we going over? And they're still digging their heels in. They did postpone a tennis event that was supposed to happen this weekend, but they have yet to do that one. That's October 31st. By the way, there's a WVE event on November 7th.

There's a UFC event in Qatar on November 21st. There's another UFC event in Saudi Arabia on December 5th. What do you make of this first shoe, so to speak, the Canelo fight, one of the biggest stars in the history of the sport, still being scheduled to fight in that corner of the world? Yeah, baffling in one word. It kind of reminds me of COVID when UFC brought. the sport, all sport back really, early stages. That I was on Fight Island every single time. It was actually really safe.

But this just doesn't feel safe. You've got the, there's a spokesperson for the Hooties. I can't remember their name, but they literally said they would be targeting, you know, the airport and, you know, specific other places. There was other officials from the embassy and for the United States government saying to avoid crowds. The venue for the Canelo fight is supposed to hold up to 30,000 people,

I don't want to say that that would be a target, but you just need to look at what the spokesperson for the Houthis are saying, from what the official line from, you know, government sources are saying, they're saying to avoid that, that yet Canello and the Christian and Billy event is still ongoing. The other thing I think is baffling is that Turkey-Lalashik seemed to be speaking on Canello's behalf about how he has no fear or he fears nothing and that the fight would be and the event would be going ahead, but we're yet to hear publicly from Canelo, whether he actually believes that or not. I would like to hear from Canelo, whether that is true. I'm sure I saw a report earlier today, if not yesterday, that the Riyadh airport will remain

closed until the 26th. So I don't know how they're going to ferry Canello over there, you know, before, you know, five days that you're supposed to fight, and all the teams, you know, the coaches, everyone else involved in the fighters, the production crew. how is this event supposed to go ahead? Yeah, it's very uneasy. I was actually thinking of that and actually like, imagine you're working this event for DeZone.

Imagine you're a TD, a technical director, a stage manager, production assistant, and they're telling you, yeah. Like, Canello, as Robert Garcia said, he's going to get nice treatment. He'll probably fly private. He'll get to do his own thing, tons of security.

But to make all these people leave their families and go work this fight at this time seems very reckless to be as mild as possible. Listen, Ariel, I hope that all his own employees have PTO. They, the better take off. This is serious, man. Like, people are literally dying, like, in current events, you know, here.

And I get it, right? Like, everyone wants to make money, whether that be, you know, the people running the event or the fighters. But again, like you said, they're a staff. There are a bunch of people that are now putting their lives at risk, potentially, you know, to try to make this event go forward. And quite frankly, I feel like it's irresponsible. I definitely feel like this should be moved, regardless of if Conello still wants to fight. I think the safety of the fighters come first, right?

I think that's one of the things that we preach here in boxing. You know, we talk about PDs and these things about protecting the fighters, but, you know, you're walking into a literal danger zone. I think protecting the fighters has to come first on all accounts, and, you know, something should be done. Let's talk about protecting fighters, Dan. Let's talk about Dana Dubois and Fabio Wardley, a great win for Daniel Dubois. on Saturday in London. But a lot of the talk was,

what the hell happened to Fabia Wardley after that battle in which he lost and was stopped about five months ago and maybe more importantly, what's happened to Ben Davison, his head trainer that everyone is piling on right now, everyone calling him a fraud, saying he throws in the towel too soon,

he doesn't prepare his guys. It happens quite often in combat sports in particular. A coach goes on a string of losses and everyone just starts piling on. Is it fair? The hate, the criticism that Ben is receiving, the criticism that Fabio is receiving to a certain degree,

but it feels like Ben is getting more hate, especially coming off the most of Talma loss to Philip Hergovich just a couple of weeks ago. He's getting more heat than his guy, Fabio, for losing in the second round to Daniel. How do you feel about this? It's boxing. Boxing fans are cruel.

Boxing is a fickle sport. When you're high, you're high. And Ben Davidson literally came out of nowhere. I think he was like a soccer, he had a soccer background. Next to you know he's training Tyson Fury for his comeback. Good looking guy, confident guy. The Twitter trolls don't like that.

They don't like confident, good looking guys. I can attest to that. I'm just kidding. But they just are piling on. It's heavyweight boxing. Like, they're going to be losses. And yes, he's getting very good at throwing the towel. That last one was like a perfect dismount,

and it landed right inside of the ring. But you got to do that. Like, to me, that's not something we need to pile on Ben Davidson about. He's like he's throwing in the towel too much. Like, to me, he's trying to save his fighters. I believe he should have threw in the towel way earlier in the first Fabio Wardley, Daniel DuBaw fight, because we saw the ramifications. That Fabio Wardley that stepped into the ring on Saturday night, he was a shell of himself. And this is a guy that has like 20, 20, less than 25 fights and not much of an amateur background to begin with.

It just shows that the nature of boxing, the highs are high and the lows are pretty low. Anthony Joshua still wants to work with Ben Davison, so we'll see what happens there. but he's coming off of a, it comes with a territory. Like, you're with these high profile heavyweights. And right now, British boxing, British heavyweight boxing is, it's the tops. And he's aligned with a lot of these guys. And someone's got to win these fights. And someone's got to lose these fights.

And it's usually pretty destructive in the heavyweight division. So I can, I understand why he's getting the criticism, like I just said before. But I don't think it's warranted this time because he's actually was looking out for his guy in this. I agree. But, but Dan, someone, I know someone has to win. and someone has to lose, but you can't just lose, lose, lose, lose. There has to be wins, big wins, sprinkled in between the losses for people to feel like you're doing a good job.

I mean, listen, Fabio Ward, I think the first fight, he did a good job. You know, I thought he did a good job despite taking an L in the first fight. The second fight was what it was. But what we saw with Moses Atama, that, come on, man, that wasn't just a loss. The guy won every round and his gas tank was on D and the car shut off. So I just think that he does now have to take the criticism that comes behind this because there's so many high profile losses back to back. It's just not a great look. Is he getting criticized for throwing the towel?

Is he getting criticized for his training tech? Maybe everything. I think I would. Yeah. I would criticize him for the, I think he particularly might deserve criticism for the Moses Itama loss just because Atama even was saying that his preparations, he wasn't even sparring. for, I think it was even 10 rounds. He wasn't sparring. He wasn't doing 12 round prep.

So how he could keep up with someone like Hergovich, who's got a very well-established chin and punch resistance, he was going to be in deep waters. If he was going to get a knockout, it was only going to come very late. And it was him that ended up getting finished. So the preparation for that fight in particular, you know, had something else to be desired.

That could have been a lot better. But with, you know, what we saw against Daniel DeBron in the first fight, really reminded me of Sebastian Fandori and Tim Zoo in their first fight. Sebastian Fondor, they both had a war. Tim Zoo's forehead looked like he'd been hit by an axe. And Fondora had, Fondora won, and he had about 13 months off. And then he returned, and he kept on winning.

Tim Zoo came back for me too early. He ended up losing to Backram, I think it was, had to rebuild back in Australia, and that rebuilding process is still going on now. I don't think Fabio Wardley should have been in the ring five and a half months after taking that beating to Daniel DeBarre in the first fight. That was the mistake. I don't think it was to do with the coaching or pulling his fighter out.

That's more to do with management and the promoter. Fabio Wardy should have been told you need a year off. By the way, it actually kind of reminds me a little bit of Fabio Wardley, Frazier Clark. They have the war come back and then Wardley completely annihilates Frazier Clark. And everyone said maybe it was a little too soon, like decapitated him. That jaw afterwards was scary. What do you make of Daniel Dubois at this point, Najee, because it seemed like early in his career,

once he fought Joe Joyce in the pandemic, November of 2020, everyone was writing him off. He has no heart. He quit. And, you know, like, that seemed to be something that he just couldn't shed. He couldn't shed that label of being a quitter. And then, of course, he builds himself up.

He stumbles again. But it seems, as of late, he's really found something, even against Usek, ah, you quit, you quit, which I thought was unfair as well. But as of late, there's like a demon inside of him, and he's looked amazing in his last. few fights. Obviously, the AJ win was tremendous. This one was tremendous. Hergevich. He has the win over him as well. I feel like, and I'm going to steal a line from you and Chris, Dan, on your pod, of all the

current boxing heavyweight champions, guys who hold belts, he's the best one right now. What do you think about, Amnaji, as he looks for his options post this win on Saturday? Listen, Dynamite, Daniel Dubois, that guy, he looks scary. We got to be honest. He has a lot of power, and he's not afraid to go in there and show it. You mentioned even in the Joshua fight, we've seen Daniel Dubois hurt and still come back to win fights. You know, so I think that's a testament to his heart. You know, I thought that was unfair criticism.

I don't know how many people have, you know, had their orbital bone broken and still have to perform. You know, it's easy to kind of say these things on the sideline, but I wouldn't necessarily call him a quitter from some of the other performances that I've seen. So I definitely feel like he is one of the players heavyweight, but there is one guy, the German shepherd, I like to call him. Agit Cabiel. Here we go. Here we go. You know what was coming, Dan. This guy, Aged Cabiel, doesn't get enough

credit and enough respect. He whoop Jali Zhang. He woke Machmedoff when he was scary. He whoop Frank Sanchez, the guy that, you know, a lot of people have ducked Frank Sanchez. I think Cabiel, to me, is the guy that is that premier heavyweight. And also, let's be clear, Alexander Usik dropped that WBC belt when Cabiel became that mandatory. I'm just saying, don't crucify me. I'm just letting you know what happened. But I think that's the big fight. Daniel Dubois versus Agiqqael.

That's the one I want to see. All right. Well, let's see if it happens. There's a few pieces all over the place in the world of boxing. Before we go, guys, or in the world of the heavyweight division, I should specify. Before we go, let's talk quickly about the super welterweight division, Sebastian Fondora with a thrilling finish. We can debate all day long, whether it was before the bell,

the belt, but in the end, he was going to win that fight, and I want to see him fight Boots Ennis. We all wanted to see Boots v. Virgil Ortiz at the very beginning of the year. Right now, that fight has no momentum. We understand Boots and Josh Kelly probably first quarter of 2027. I think Boots gets by Kelly, and then hopefully it's undisputed Boots versus Sebastian Fondora. Do you agree first things first, Dan, with the sentiment that I just laid out, and if so, who do you like in that fight? Oh, yeah. Fondora hat, he has no choice. Fondora is, I feel like he has stretched out as long as he possibly could holding that belt. He's given up belts. This year alone, he fought Keith Thurman and now Ermal Hajibaj, who proved to be a very tough guy,

but there are levels. I mean, Hajbaj was an MMA fighter with very little boxing background. He still had success early in that fight, but Fondor took over. And I believe that a lot of those eye-catching shots that Hadjibaj landed early on in the fight, I think if Boots lands those, It could be a very early night for Fondora. But the thing, I think it's actually, like, boxing's all about what have you done for me lately, right? It's the last we saw of boots. He's dismantling Xander's eyes, the last we see of Fondora, kind of struggling a little bit with Hadrabiage, and he gets the knockout win in the end.

But I actually think it's a pretty closer fight than many are expecting. Like, I don't think it's some walkthrough for boots, strictly because of the mentions of Sebastian Fondora. 6-6-6, 67, with that long reach, likes to find on the inside. can fight on the outside too. I ultimately think Boots will win, but this isn't like a walk-through situation for Duranes. Oh, man. What a fight, though.

You guys share my excitement. Like, would you still go with Boots versus Ortiz over this one, Alan, or do you like this potential fight, Fondora versus Boots as a potentially big fight in 2027? It kind of reminds me of the buildup to Terrence Crawford and Errol Spence, where people really wanted them to fight. but I remember speaking to, especially Derek James, the coach of Errol Spence, he said there was never any point in them fighting when it would determine, you know, who was the number one, you had the number one and the number two, you know,

in the World's Weight Division at the time and for years, it didn't make sense having that fight when there was still another belt out there. So you're saying who's the number one, but then you have to go and clean up the division afterwards. So I like the layout of Boots and Kelly. and then the winner, which I believe would be boots, fighting Fondora, and you've got all of the Super World to Eight titles on the line. You've got an extraordinary style clash.

Fandora, I just see, I've had the pleasure of seeing him ringside in so many, like, amazing fights. Erickson Lubin was the fight of the year in, for me, I think it was 2022. It was definitely a fight of the year contender. He had those back and forth classics with, or modern day classics with Tim Zoo. He's just an exciting guy who can fight on the inside as well as he can on the outside, despite his bean pole six-foot-six-scarcro kind of frame.

I think he would give Boots considerable problems. I think Fondora is a much-revolved fighter, even from the knockout loss he suffered only two or three years ago. We saw vulnerabilities in Boots when he stepped up at world level against Zandazias, and that was the first time he was kind of operating there, having kind of eviscerated everyone in his path at the kind of slight level below that previously. And now he's going up against Fundora, you know, potentially going up against Fondora, who has been operating at that level for years.

I really like Fandora in that fight. I would love to see it. I think, you know, Fandora deserves that shot. I don't know who he fights in that interim period. Maybe he even goes for Zias. I think he needs a big name. I don't want to see him fight another guy like we saw on Saturday. I want to see someone who's got name value and who would help propel this kind of, you know, final four, as it might be, into, you know, ultimately who is the number one in the division, Fondora or Boots?

Naji, I saw you make a face there where, I just got to ask Naji because, because you made a face there when he picked Fondora. Do you agree or disagree? Listen, Alan, I love you, man. I see you on Twitter. Lots of love. Man, ain't no way. Ain't no way, Alan. Listen, and I, listen, I like Sebastian Fondora.

I'm a Fondora fan. I actually thought, I actually felt like he had a shot until what we just saw. Listen, I forget how to pronounce his name. Hodribed, excuse me, if I'm mispronouncing his name, but the gentleman that he just fought, he showed that Fondora's outside range is a facade. Once you clock him, he's going to go back to what he loves, and that's the fight inside. He gave up that range from the second round as soon as he got caught with a big shot, and he just fought the guy inside.

And I'm letting you know right now, if you fight boots inside, you will get killed. It will be an execution. And I also want to say, Ariel, I need three rounds with Thomas Taylor because I picked Fondora by decision. I was like, I was livid. Like this guy owes me a thousand bucks, man. So Thomas Taylor, if you're watching this, you owe me some money, man. Yeah, it was late. Dan, final word to you.

Oh, I was just saying, we brought up Virgil Ortiz. Like, didn't, there was a story that came out that he's moving to the middleweight. I know. Yeah, but I still want to see that. I mean, I feel like we were teased that fight forever, but yes. No, I get it. It does seem like the ship has sailed. Yeah, we were 14.

I did ask. Yeah. What was that, Alan? I did ask Fondora about the Virgil fight, and he said, if he's at Midaway, I've got no interest, he wants to stay at Super Walterway and just, I get the impression he'll probably be there for years and years. You can't. He even told me a few years ago, he would go down to Walterweight to fight Spence and Crawlowe. Can you imagine a six-foot-six scarecrow fighting at, uh, he's got an absurd frame. But he's, he's ridiculous even at 154.

Um, but yeah, he's not even thinking of virtual, I don't think. He is a must-see TV attraction. Anytime Sebastian Fondora, the towering inferno fights, I have to watch just, just for the visual of him fighting these guys at 154 pounds. Uh, you gents are must-cTV. Tremendous job, guys. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the beat. Enjoyed the discussion so very much.

We could have stocked for another hour, but alas, we are out of time, everyone. And so I thank you. So very much, once again, for tuning in. Thanks to our good friends at Amazon Fire TV for the partnership. We're loving doing the beat exclusively on this here platform. Much more to come. But for now, like I said, time to say goodbye. Enjoy the fights this weekend.

We'll talk to you next week.