The Ariel Helwani Show - Tony Ferguson, Rafael Fiziev, Sonya Deville in studio, 'Tank' Davis madness, John Cena turns heel, full (controversial) weekend recap

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Ariel Helwani kicks off the program by reacting to the Gervonta 'Tank' Davis vs. Lamont Roach controversy,  John Cena's shocking heel turn, UFC Vegas 103 and more (06:11).Rafael Fiziev eases us into UFC 313 fight week by previewing his short-notice rematch against Justin Gaethje (41:01).Uncrowned's Keith Idec checks in with the latest on the Davis vs. Roach controversy and what's next for "Tank" (1:03:25)Daria Berenato — aka WWE's Sonya Deville — joins us in-studio to discuss her WWE departure, why a potential MMA return may be next, her terrifying experience with a stalker and more (1:37:34).MMA legend Tony Ferguson calls in to break news of his GFL bout against Dillon Danis and discuss his emotional UFC release, rejecting the KSI boxing match and more (2:44:48).

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Errrya Hawaii Show! Back in your life! On this Monday, March 3rd, 2000. And 25, hello again everyone. Hi Sher, hope you're doing well. Holy smokes my friends, we have a lot to discuss. We have so much to discuss. Yesterday I woke up on a frigid Sunday morning in New York City and I said,

you know what, I wish it was Monday. I woke up on a Sunday wishing it was Monday. How many of us can say that? And you know why I felt that way? Because Saturday was an absolute wacky day in the world of combat sports. And we touched them all. We touched them all, Joe.

We had wackiness in boxing. We had wackiness in MMA. We had wackiness in mixed martial arts. And you know, if I could think of just one word, if I could choose, select one word to describe the weekend, and in particular Saturday. Saturday in particular in the world of combat sports that word is controversy or as my friends in the UK like to say controversy. There was controversy from Northern Ireland to Brooklyn

to Toronto to Las Vegas. I'm not sure if I got that right. It should probably be like Northern Ireland, to Brooklyn, to Toronto, to Las Vegas. Controversy, controversy all over the map and we have so much to discuss. And I don't really have a lot of time for dilly dallying. I don't have a lot of time for weekend, small talk, chit chat, water cooler talk, cause we've got a stack show.

And like I said, we have so much to discuss. On a weekend where I was like, all right, there's some fun things to talk about. No, we've got some freaking juicy things to talk about. So let's get right into it. Back into the show, we're gonna be joined by now former WWE superstar, former women's tag team champion, Sonya Deville, AKA Daria Baronato.

She was just, I don't know, I don't know if release is the right word because her contract was coming to an end and they didn't resign her. In any event parted ways with WWE after 10 years in the company. A lot of people may not know this, former MMA fighter, two in one as an MMA fighter,

even did a little MMA media back in the day as well. She is now a free agent, if you will, in life, in work. Does she stay in the wrestling business? Does she go back to MMA? Does she get into acting? All those things and more. She's going to join us in studio to talk about all of that. Looking forward to having her on. Have never had the chance to interview her. Prior to that, we're going to be joined by El Kikoui himself, Tony Ferguson.

Yes. It's been a minute since we spoke to Tony Ferguson and we found out, uh, late last week that he is in fact going to be fighting Dylan Danis sometime later this year. Now, GFL has been announcing, I got some schmutz on my shirt here. Thanks for letting me know guys. I mean, Oh, got some schmutz on my shirt here, thanks for letting me know guys.

I mean, go leave. Get some schmutz on your shirt. Thanks. He, GFL has been announcing some fights, some matchups, things of that nature, but never a date or a location. What I'm hearing is second week of May, West coast, hopefully more to come, but that's what I'm hearing. Second week of May, West Coast, that would be like the second weekend or so. Perhaps Mother's

Day weekend, maybe, we'll see. Back end, remember they're looking at a Sunday Monday situation. That's what Darren Owen, the founder and commissioner of GFL, has told us time and again. So could it be like a May 11th, May 12th situation? And this would be coming after UFC 315 in Montreal, which is May 10th, perhaps. And perhaps that's where we see Tony Ferguson fight Dylan Dennis. You'll also recall that Dylan Dennis is supposed to fight KSI on March 29th. He's planning to do both. So all of a sudden, going from not being very active to extremely active there's a press conference for that fight tomorrow in England I

Was thinking for a second. I'm not sure if it's in Manchester or London the fight is happening in Manchester But I'm not sure if it's happening in Manchester London regardless. We'll see some stuff over there prior to that will be joined By Keith Ida of uncrowned calm and the ring will be joined by Keith Idick of Uncrowned.com and The Ring. He of course one of the very best voices in the the boxing media game and he was there on Saturday in Brooklyn for the Tank Davis Lamont Roach fight. We will get to more on that in a moment just put a pin. Part of that will be joined by Rafael Fazeev. We found out after I said goodbye on Wednesday that Fazeev is in fact going to fight Justin Gaethje this

weekend at UFC 313, headlined by Alex Praha versus Magomed Ankaleyev. Great. We also found out that Anthony Smith is gonna have his retirement fight in May officially. Great. We found out that Khalil Rowntree and Jamal Hill are going to be fighting on the April 26th Kansas City card. Great. We found out that Gian Silva is going to be fighting Bryce Mitchell in April in Miami. Great. So a lot happened. We'll talk to Rafael. We have not seen since September of 2023. We'll talk to him at about 1 40pm Eastern. And so let us get into some things here, my friends, because like I said, controversy all over the map.

So we'll start as the day went on. It started in Northern Ireland, Patty Donovan versus Lewis Crocker. That ended in controversy. Now I'm screwing myself up with the controversy stuff. Then we moved on to the UFC in Las Vegas. That ended in controversy. Then we moved on to elimination chamber. And I won't say that like maybe I'm stretching controversy, but it was shocking, shocking kind of falls in the controversy bucket. And then we moved on to tank Davis versus Lamont Roach, which was certainly the most controversial of them all.

Let me ask the guys here, because I've been debating this one all day all weekend, what was the biggest story of the weekend? What's the top story? You go to the newsstand, you know, around the block, Pizzi, what are the guys saying? What are they saying? What did I miss in comments? What's the top story?

I think you're crazy. How was Donovan and Crocker and the stoppage? You know what? I should not have asked you first. That's the problem. I should have not asked you. You think this is home cooking? You think this is home cooking me, Sayan? 1000% 1000% This is wild. We were talking about Donovan Crocker earlier today and uh, GC was like, what's this old fight? What's going on? What are we talking about here? So'm not sure it is an incredible an incredible weekend best for the weekend I'm not arguing that I'm just saying what do you say what do you see scene of turning heel I think I think that would be what everyone would be

talking about Rick scene of turning heel scene of turning heel okay the numbers that that was doing on social on YouTube on everything was insanity I thought you guys were gonna give me some sort of like Oscars for cock the shit. I was thinking Cody Brunger's first round knockout of Julian Marquez was an incredible comeback, but I thought you would refute that. Or Pinto, no? That's Pizzi's boy, shout out to Pizzi's boy.

Okay, here's where I'll start, and we'll kind of go around the world here, guys. Yeah. Tank Davis Lamont Roach, I think we need to start with that one. Yeah. What transpired in that fight was, was astounding because you have to remember Tank Davis was a 16 to one favorite going into this fight.

Lamont Roach, while a WBA champion was moving up from 130 pounds and no one thought he had a chance. And, and the general demeanor of Tank Davis going into this fight was like, hey man, I'm kind of done with this. I got three fights left. I'm going to be done by the end of 2025. I don't really like this sport anymore.

Kids, don't do this. Go into soccer. This ain't for you. And it just was sort of like, he was apathetic. Before the fight, he talked about, oh, you know, I'll call someone out and this, that, and the other. Like it all kind of felt like an afterthought. And then the fight he talked about, oh, you know, I'll call someone out and this and the other, like it all kind of felt like an afterthought. And then the fight happens and truth be told, like the fight wasn't the best fight

of all time. It was, it was fine. It wasn't your vintage tank Davis fight. Uh, there wasn't, you know, there wasn't a knockout. There wasn't a knockdown scored by him. Uh, it was, it was just, it was just sort of fine. If that was your first time watching Tank, you're probably like, okay, yeah, sort of, I get it. But it kind of speaks to his demeanor going into the fight.

It just felt a little bit underwhelming. And then we get to the ninth round, and then it's complete madness. Because in the ninth round, you probably have heard by now, the fight is moving along, it's moving along. And it is important to note that Lamont Roach lands a jab or two. And you know, where we want to start the clock is up to, you know, debate, but he certainly lands a punch and then seconds later, seconds after that punch lands, that jab lands, all of a sudden Tank Davis takes a knee. He quickly takes a knee and there it is right there. Ninth round, 2.17, he is taking a knee and he's looking to his corner and he also, ever so briefly, it appears as though he's almost

trying to call time. Let me tell you, in case you don't know, in boxing, you take a knee, that's considered a knockdown. You cannot call time. And you know what you also can't do? You also can't go to your corner mid round and ask them to wipe your face, ask them to do anything. You can't get a, you know, a swig of water. You can't do this.

You cannot do that. But that all happened. And so the referee for this fight is a legendary referee. Steve Willis, you have probably seen him in GIFs, you know, he's got that kind of like big-eyed look. You've definitely seen him, he's a veteran of the fight game. I'm not exactly sure what happened. I'm not suggesting he was in on it. I'm not but like there was certainly a fumbling in this particular case because he very briefly starts to count when the knee hits the canvas. Then when Tank goes to the corner and gets his face wiped off he's like what's going on we can't show it because it's PBC but by now you've probably seen it all over social media. Then he stops counting and the fight resumes.

That should have been a 10-8 round for Lamont Roach. Or if you scored that a 10-9, then it's a 9-9. Point being, the fight ends in a majority draw if you look at the score cards there they are you got a 114 114 you got another 114 114 and in the middle you got a 115 113 had they scored that round or scored the knockdown I should say all of a sudden that 114 1144 is 114-113 for Lamont Roach. All of a sudden that second one, Steve Weisfeld, one of the best judges in the sport, is another.

114-113, and all of a sudden that middle one is a 113-114. But all of a sudden now you're going to a, from a majority draw to a split decision win for Lamont Roach. He was robbed. The knee hitting the canvas should be a knockdown. The face getting wiped should be a DQ.

They didn't use replay apparently and we're going to talk to Keith Idick about all this, but there is replay in New York and a fight that was kind of viewed as an afterthought would now be a gigantic rematch and one of the biggest upsets of the past oh I don't know 10-15 years 16 to 1 is gigantic a very bizarre thing now afterwards Tank Davis says that he had grease in his eyes and you know what's crazy about this this is almost exactly a year to the day, a year to the day, where Amanda Serrano couldn't fight in Puerto Rico. I remember I was there because she said that the product that they put in her hair went into her eye and she couldn't see. Now all this happened before she couldn't even make the walk. Tank made the walk and apparently there's an account out there of someone who claims to be the person who worked on his hair

who said that since she did his hair he worked out, he weighed in, he lost weight, blah blah blah blah blah blah and nothing happened of the sort. Now all of a sudden in the ninth round he's saying that his eye is on fire and he can't see. I don't know if it bothered him, he didn't say if it bothered him afterwards, but it seemed to have bothered him right in that moment. And then he gets his face wiped down and whatnot. The knee hitting the canvas is so important. I remember watching Floyd Mayweather versus Shane Mosley and and we had never seen Floyd's knee hit the canvas and it seemed like ever so slightly it was it was about to hit and

why was that important? Because it would have been ruled a knockdown. It would have been the first time in his career that someone would have scored a knockdown based off of a punch. It didn't happen because he like he missed it by that much. These things are important. And so for this to just be kind of wiped off, I don't know what happens because let's be honest, appeals very rarely work in combat sports. Sometimes there's a little bit more, there's a little bit more success in boxing, but we all know we've been doing this for a long time, we've been watching for a long time. They are almost impossible to win. Lamont Roach has an incredible case here. Now today they've

been going back and forth on social media. In the immediate aftermath, Tank Davis said he was going to call someone out and now he doesn't know if he's going to call them out anymore. Well, he never actually called anyone out. He also said that this may have added a few more fights to his, you know, to his career that maybe he's not going to retire after all. All right, fine. When pressed, if that person he was calling out was Shakur Stevenson, he said no.

He said the person that he was going to call out was in attendance and in his locker room is it possible that he was referring to Jake Paul who was in attendance and in his locker room and who all of a sudden on Saturday was tweeting a whole bunch of stuff towards tank Davis is it possible I'm not sure can he possibly do that can he possibly take that fight when there's a A 60 pound weight difference between the two of them. I don't know But he's been going back and forth with lamont roach all day today and said essentially I'm pushing for the rematch

and then lamont weighed in And said fuck you mean pushing for a rematch. My contract already signed and said for the immediate rematch because you put that in there just in case you lost. Only reason we don't fight is because you scared. And then I think there's more. Is there not? Okay, that's it. Well, there is a bunch. You could see it on their thing. P.T. What do you make of this? That should be a knockdown, right? Absolutely. It's it. Well, there is a bunch. You can see it on their thing. P.T. What do you make of this? That should be a knockdown, right? Absolutely. It's crazy.

You know, you know, it's weird that the thing we cannot show here, the Willis interaction, the referee, I'm pretty sure he says to him afterwards, like when your knee hits the ground, it's supposed to be a knockdown. Yes. You're the you're the dude that's enforcing this. You know how how like it's got to be a knockdown. Yes. You're the dude that's enforcing this. It's got to be something to do with Gervonta's status. He's one of the big draws in the sport. He obviously means a lot to this promotion. But you're writing what you're saying about Davis and that he seemed completely stripped of aura. Everything that we usually expect from this guy. And, you know, you're on tender hooks watching this guy fight because he can finish a fight

at any given time. He just doesn't did not seem like that guy all week, as you said, did not seem like that guy in the ring. Absolutely bizarre moment. And I think the biggest issue for me is the referee seems to know that he should have counted that as a knockdown. Very poor for Roach and his team, I'm sure they're absolutely livid about it. And in addition to that, how does he let him go and get his face wiped off in the middle

of the round? Like imagine, imagine someone gets punched in the middle of a fight and then all of a sudden says like, Oh, I just need like a quick little like ice on there. Like real quick. Hold on, hold on. Greg Hardy and the inhaler. Do you remember retaking the inhaler? And he's like, yeah, it's fine.

And that was between rounds. This guy's walking over mid round after getting punched and the inhaler. Do you remember retaking the inhaler? And he's like, yeah, it's fine. And that was between rounds. This guy's walking over mid round after getting punched and taking a knee. Wild, absolutely wild. Now we don't know. Look, look, there, there might have been something in his eye. That's the thing, but still you can't do that. You know what I mean?

Like, do you remember there was once a fight, um, where Paulie Malinagi got his haircut in the middle of, uh, of, of a round. We've seen this before. He wasn't getting a haircut in the middle of the round. He did it in between rounds. You can't just do that in the middle of an exchange. And so... Taylor Cameron as well, Roach, he had to get our hair

sorted out. Remember the braids? Yep, yep, yep. You had to get that sorted between rounds. Absolute madness there. And so I think that they should run... Well, first of all, Lamont Roach needs to file an appeal with, with New York and the WBA because this was a WBA, um, title fight. I don't know what's going to come of that. Who the hell knows with these things. It seems like there's, there's no real rhyme or

reason, but I mean, if there ever was a case for an appeal, he's got it. He a hundred percent has it, he's got it. He a hundred percent has it. He's also unfortunately probably been robbed of millions of dollars. Cause if he wins that fight, the rematch is even bigger.

Now to his point, there's a rematch clause that Gervonta and his team put in, in case he would have lost. And now all of a sudden he can, he can exercise it. Now let's see what Gervonta does, but this has to be the way to go. Like with all due respect to Shakur Stevenson with all due respect to Keishon Davis or whomever he was going to call out anything other

than going this route feels like a massive massive disappointment and somewhat of a stain on on tanks legacy do you agree near Creek yeah this this is the right way to proceed from here. Um, agree with everything that's already been said. Cannot do that, should have been penalized. The perfect way to settle it is for them to run it back. And it seems like both parties are interested in that. I'm interested in that. Um, but you cannot help but feel regardless of the result of the second fight.

That Roach got hard done here, that this would have been life changing for him. And it's unfortunate that it played this way. It's the most obvious thing that Roach got hard done here. That this would have been life-changing for him and it's unfortunate that it played this way. It's the most obvious 10-8 like it's the most obvious fighter took a knee. We score that a knockdown that I've seen that and I can't recall another example of somebody not having a 10-8 scored when they took a knee but yeah. I can't the only takeaway for me is not Gervonta's performance, not whether he did

or did not have anything in his eye, Roach got hard done. Some seven hours prior guys in Northern Ireland, in Belfast, we had a domestic dust-up if you will. We had Limerick against Belfast in a all Irish affair on DazZone. Paddy Donovan, who is becoming a big star over in Ireland. He's got the looks, he's got the team, he's got Andy Lee's, he's got Cronkjim behind him going up against Luz Crocker.

He's from Limerick, Donovan is, coming over enemy territory, if you will, to Belfast in this great domestic dust-up, as they say. This one we can show you, because it's courtesy of our good friends over at DeZone. It was a great fight, back and forth they went. Now here's the second headbutt. There's the referee, Marcus McDonald,

McDonald, excuse me, he takes a point away for this second headbutt. Now Patty Donovan and his team will say, we were both leading with our heads, why'd you take it out on me? Here's him dropping Crocker, and now here's the controversy in question. Eighth round, Crocker's down, take a listen.

He drops Crocker, Donovan does, clearly after the bell. He thinks though, because it was so loud, perhaps he didn't hear it. He thinks initially that he has won the fight. Then it becomes clear to him that he has not won the fight. In fact, he has been DQ'd. Absolute mayhem in there. Controversy. And look at this.

He's distraught, he's heartbroken. We gotta go back to that sequence there because there's two things that you guys have to look out for. And there's Crocker getting his hand raised and Donovan's distraught. Can we go back to the sequence where he gets dropped? It's very clearly after the bell.

But my issue with it is, and the general consensus, and I thought Tony Bellew was great on the broadcast, the general consensus seemed to have been that the referee, Marcus McDonnell, was not in the proper position. These two guys are slugging it away. They are going toe to toe. Look how far he is away from the action. He needs to jump in there. And he's also clearly, Donovan's clearly trying to stop the fight at this stage

Like he needs to be on top of that action Yes, cuz he like Donovan is is throwing more punches in sequences here than he has for the whole fight He's already knocked this dude down how the referee is on top of that action There is it's beggars belief how he's not there The place is like a cauldron like I talked to to people who are there. The place is on fire at this stage. It's already been two points taken off Donovan. There's already fells to be looked out at. If this is the situation, if this is the context of the fight, we know that Crocker's in a bad situation. He needs to be on top of that. It's an absolute, he needs to be in that position to make sure they can stop at the end of the rounds. We

hear Andy Lee talking after it, at the end of the rounds. We hear Andy, Andy Lee talking after it, like the one of the most honest brokers in Irish boxing across the board. You're not going to find anyone in Ireland with anything bad to say about Andy Lee. He was very measured in the ring. I think you'll speak to that as well. Very measured at the press conference. He's obviously watched it again and he can't understand how you know the referee isn't in between these guys as soon as the bell rings in in what looks like a

Situation which could be a fight ending exchange for Donovan it I think it's very poor for him to be honest in the aftermath his team was saying things like you know It wasn't really being called down the middle. He takes away the points Both of them were fighting the same way. The elbow was questionable, all these things. And so the question is, did he deque him because it was like a sum of multiple fouls or did he deque him because the shot was no one is, no one

is denying that the shot wasn't after the, uh, the bill, but he wasn't in position and, and could Crocker have continued or did that, I mean, obviously his eye was messed up or did that shot just dock him out at this point? Is it a no contest? I don't know. The DQ felt a little harsh and I feel that way

if only because I felt the point deductions were a little bit harsh as well, because I felt like the two of them were engaged in this sort of close battle with their heads moving forward. Ultimately though, the atmosphere was absolutely electric in there. And now Crocker gets the win and moves on. Again, they need to run this one back because it was so controversial.

The rematch would be gigantic, way bigger than anything they could get, you know, without each other involved. And so they need to run that one back. But that's how Saturday started. That was complete mayhem. Then we go, we went from, Pizzi and I were talking about this, we went from that atmosphere to the apex. Going from that atmosphere at the SSE arena in Belfast to the apex. What is the best, what is the best comparison to this? I don't even know. I don't even know what it is, but I, I truly feel pizza. I truly feel like my soul is dying.

You go from that electric atmosphere, like you cannot even hear, and you can't hear the announcers, you hear Mike Costello there on the call. Like he was brilliant. You can't even hear the guy. You know what I mean? The passion, the, the, the, the, the energy, the atmosphere, all that stuff is amazing. It's what you live for. It's what you, it's what you would you like look

for in a big fight. It's what we're drawn to. It's intoxicating. And then you go to the apex and you can literally hear the corners where we're all the way back in 2020 here and you can hear the corners saying, yeah, yeah, keep it going, keep it going. You know, they, they do a nice little thing for

dominant cruise, uh, because he just retired and there's two people in back of him and a sea of empty seats behind him. And I tweeted, you know, I was saying that, you know, I thought that, you know, Dominic Cruz, it would have been great to have a package for him where, you know, they were announcing him going into the Hall of Fame. We've certainly seen a lot lesser people retire and then go right in.

There's no like four year waiting period. And then I got some people saying like, oh yeah, well, he deserved to have that moment outside of the apex. That's fine. But my reply was, you know who deserves better? It's these freaking fighters. It's it's it's Manel Cap who, who, you know, is, is quickly becoming one of the best flyweights in the world. Maybe the number one contender right now. he deserves to be fighting outside of the Apex. All these guys, every single one of them at this point deserve to be,

Jared Cannonier deserves to be fighting outside of the Apex. Marvin Vittori deserves to be fighting outside of the Apex. Every single person who has been fighting in the year 2025 and 2024 deserves to be outside of the Apex. I got into it like a little back and forth, not, not disrespectful. I love Alan Jobin, but his, his argument is the same argument that I continue to hear, which is these cards could not sell outside of the apex and that is inaccurate.

That is inaccurate. These cards are being made because they are apex cards, there is no, there's no incentive for the UFC to load these cards up because they already know that they're being put in the apex. These cards could easily be put in smaller venues like Virgin Hotel, Palms, Hard Rock, Fountain Blu, etc. And you don't need a lot more to add to it to put it in a bigger arena. The Seattle card wasn't gangbusters. You know, it had a nice main event, solid co-main, the rest wasn't anything to really write home about. And look what they did there. Look at the Edmonton card back in November as well. Don't give them

a pass on this. Now they're starting to say Mark Shapiro, the president, COO of TKO, starting to say we're going to move out. Great. They're not as profitable. Great. They're still pretty damn profitable. And if you're wondering why they realized during the pandemic, it's all bought and paid for. It's all in house. Everything's there. The lighting, the logistics, the transportation, the control room, the post show. All of it is great. It's been genius. But we have reached the point. It's Contender series, and it's tough in the apex. That's it. Fight nights, smaller venues, arenas, pay per tough in the apex. That's it. Fight nights, smaller venues, arenas, pay-per-views, arenas. That's it. Enough of this. What are we doing? 2025 we're still holding events in empty warehouses. These

fighters have earned the right to fight in front of people. You reach the top of the mountain. The major leagues of mixed martial arts and lesser shows, lesser promotions are holding events. Don't tell me that these cards can't at the mountain, the major leagues of mixed martial arts and lesser shows, lesser promotions are holding events. Don't tell me that these cards can't sell. First of all, the UFC is on fire. I bet you even this card, exactly this card, could sell 2,000, 3,000 people at the Virgin Hotel or the Fontainebleau. Don't give them a pass. They are being constructed this way because they are apex cards. You can put whatever you want. There is no incentive to put on a better card.

There is no pressure to sell a single ticket to these events so they could put on anything they want. Did you all forget that pre-pandemic they had the same number of shows, 43 shows, and each and every week was in a different venue, arena around the world. It's the same number of shows. I get it some of you are new fans. It's the same number of shows. They are not doing more shows now. Don't give them a pass. Oh by the way, second weekend in a row controversy in the main event. This time once again, wouldn't you know it, the gloves. Menel Cap with a great win. He's right there. Couldn't help but

laugh. Post show, they bring in Pantoja to do a little face to face with Cap. Remember the days when we were do that and we would be called instigators? Now they're doing it on the post show. Look at, look at the, the final sequence here with Manel. Does that not look like fingers to the eye? I would dare say that is fingers to the eye. Doesn't just look like it. That is actually fingers to the eye. Multiple times. Yes. Now the whole finishing sequence, fingers to the eyes. In real time I thought he was landing punches. You slow it down and you watch it. It is literally fingers straight to the eye. Now Asu Amabayev, who had won 17 in a row,

kind of calls time out as well, which you cannot do, but he's trying to tell the referee Mike Beltran, hey, I got poked in the eye multiple times. By the way, this is not the first time. Earlier in the fight, he successfully called time out and, and the referee gave it to him. And then they reviewed it and said, nah, it was actually a punch.

Then it turns out actually, it was not a punch. It was fingers to the eye. So just as just a sloppy kind of way of handling it. I think it was clear that Manel was better in that fight. I think Manel was on his way to winning, but just, that's not the way you want to see that fight finished. And you have to feel if, if you're Almabyev, like that's not it.

It's unfortunate second weekend in a row that this happens. Obviously we know what happened in the Cejudo song fight last weekend, two weekends ago in Seattle, this time around. Cap gets to win. Seems like he thinks he's next. happened in the Sohoto song fight last week and two weekends ago in Seattle, this time around. Cap gets the win. Seems like he thinks he's next. I'm hearing it's going to be Pentosia versus KKF, maybe as recently as June, but that's not in stone. And certainly Pentosia didn't allude to that. Although I saw there was a graphic that said 316 and that is the June pay-per-view June 7th, which a lot of people think is going to happen in New Jersey.

But there's there's now a bit of a queue forming at 125 pounds with with obviously the champ Pantoja and then KKF, Kai-Kar France and Manel. Manel has history with with Kai-Kar France. They've been going back and forth. Brandon Royval is out there as well. with Kai-Kai France, they've been going back and forth, Brandon Royval is out there as well. You hate that it ends this way because he's a great character and a great fighter, and as Rick said, was well on his way,

but unfortunately, those are eye pokes. And as I said last week, as long as there's going to be fingerless gloves, these are gonna happen. Now, could they do something to at least try to deter this from happening? We thought that they were doing that, they got rid of those gloves. There are still other gloves out there that curve the fingers and

ultimately the best way to deter it is taking points away and admonishing fighters who fight like this. There is no reason to fight like this. Close your fist, point the fingers to the sky, something like that, but doing that is just leading to eye pokes. Then we go to elimination chamber. And my friends, as the great Jim Lampley said, it happened. It happened. It actually happened for the past, oh, I don't know,

what, 15, 16, 17 years? Fans have been asking, is, 16, 17 years? Fans have been asking is, will, would John Cena turn heel? Would he actually turn heel? And there it was in Toronto at the Rogers Center, formerly known as the Sky Dome. John Cena, elimination chamber in his final year as an active wrestler, which I never really believed by the way because who actually like retires and sticks to it in pro wrestling, but here he is at 47 years young in his final year as an active wrestler, which I never really believed by the way, because who actually like retires and sticks to it in pro wrestling, but here he is at 47 years young,

elimination chamber, looking to punch his ticket to WrestleMania for one last go, going up against his old mate, CM Punk. Great scenes here, they've been going back and forth for well over a decade. He wins the match, he punches his ticket. That means he's going up against Cody Rhodes. Night two, WrestleMania.

Cody Rhodes appears. I don't know who the old guy is to his left, but shout out to him. Cody appears well dressed to the nines as per. They have a back and forth. And then who appears the final boss the Brahma bull rocky my via aka Dwayne aka the rock flanked by cactus Jack himself no not Mick Foley Travis freaking Scott now I'm watching this in bed truth be told

more Ronaldo on the PBC broadcast tips me off. He mentions John Cena and what he's about to do on the broadcast. So I go back to it. I thought the show was over and I'm lying in bed with my son. He was the only one at home. Siblings were out for sleepovers. So we let him sleep in our bed. And you know what his biggest reaction was? Travis Scott. He only cared about Travis Scott in this equation. He thought that that was the coolest part. The rock asks Sina, sorry, the rock asks Cody Rhodes. What's your answer? Are you coming?

Are you coming to the dark side? Are you going to let me own your soul? I want your soul. You know what Cody Rhodes said? PT, did you hear what he said? What did he say? Go fuck yourself. He said it.

He said, go fuck yourself. And then the rock was pissed. And then what happened? What happened? Sina and Cody Rhodes embrace. And then it all changed the look. And then rock does this weird thing where he slits his throat all weird with

like two fingers I don't know people are saying it's a callback I don't know what that was all about Sina hits him in the balls he beats him up he takes the Rolex and it's an unbelievable surreal scene involving John Cena finally turning heel we've never seen this out of him certainly not you know in the jorts era maybe pre jorts the final boss kicking the crap out of Cody Rhodes certainly not, you know, in the jorts era, maybe pre-jorts. The final boss kicking the crap out of Cody Rhodes with the belt, making him bleed and Travis freaking Scott himself really laying it on Cody Rhodes, potatoing him all over

the gaff. Look at this! Bang! Right to the face. Look at this from Travis Scott. Hey Travis, pull those punches. Oh, he's going to get it. Hey Travis, pull those punches. Oh, he's gonna get it. And then it's iconic scenes.

It's NWO 2025. Or as our good friend Mark Ramondi put it, NWO Hollywood. Cena, Rock, and T Scott. Incredible. Now, there's been a lot of talk afterwards. Now this is serious, this is actually from the heart.

Okay. Is this the greatest heel turn? Is this the greatest heel turn in wrestling history? Is this bigger than Hogan joining forces with Scott Hall and Kevin Nash in 1996, bash at the beach in July, and forming the NWO? Is this bigger than that? I don't think anybody here other than you

is qualified to speak on that part, but. I have a very strong take. This is what I will say. Yes. In my, like I'm not as versed, but because we know this is the end, that takes away from it for me. Because we know there's a limited time

that this will be happening, right? We know that this is the going away tour. That detracts from it for me, because it's like, okay, we're giving this to you on the way out. But when Hogan joins the NWO or any of these other big heel turns, who knows? That could be the next decade of the comp.

Like the Hogan NWO era was massive and huge and went for a while and you didn't know when that was gonna end. To me, that takes away from it. And so I can't definitively say that. Okay. Now here's the thing. Hogan was about 43 when that happened scene of 47. Now again, I don't really believe that he's actually

going to stop wrestling in 10 months, but let's just take it. Oh, so you don't think this is the real goodbye. Heels lie, heels lie. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. This whole thing has been a year in the making. This whole thing has been a year in the making. This whole thing has been a year in the making. Here's the final take on it.

The final take is this wasn't better and it wasn't bigger than Hogan. Hogan turning was seismic. Hogan turning was something we never thought we would see. In fact, no one was really even calling for it. Like the, the, the, the act was getting a little bit stale in WCW, but no one was calling for it

as we have been calling for Cena to do it in so long. I've said on this show, I have found the Cena act to be stale. The guy's almost 50 years old, he's still wearing the same jorts that he was wearing back in 2007, like the whole thing needed to evolve, the whole gimmick needed to evolve. And so we have been asking and longing for it.

Now I'm all in, now I can't wait. Now I can't wait to see what he says, how he acts, all that stuff and more. The Hogan thing changed an industry. The Hogan thing was a part of the Monday Night War. The Hogan thing helped propel WCW to start beating WWF at the time for 83 straight weeks in the ratings. It changed everything. It led to WWF changing its approach and the attitude era and Brett screwed Brett and all this stuff. Hogan thing will never never be matched and that by saying that sounds like it's taking something away from what happened on Saturday. It is not

because what happened on Saturday is the last of its kind. We will never see a heel turn like that in wrestling again because because right now in wrestling there's a gray area people come in and out of character. Everyone who's a star has already been a heel. Everyone who's a heel has already been a babyface. We will never have someone last this long as a babyface. It will never ever happen again. Mark my words. There will never be someone in wrestling who will be a babyface for 15, 16, 17 years

and have this type of impact. So this is the last of its kind. The difference is it doesn't change the industry like Hogan did. And I'm only bringing this up to just explain the two because I understand I was getting it actually I was debating this with Tim Simpson who's a gigantic Rustic fan he was saying that I was crazy for feeling this way But then my obvious question was were you around for Hogan and he wasn't he's he's a little bit younger than I

If you were around for the Hogan thing you realize that was seismic that changed the industry that changed what WWF did that changed what WCW did this doesn't change what AEW is doing and it is an amazing storyline and now all of a sudden what felt like a bit of a stale WrestleMania season run all of a sudden feels even better than last year and then all of a sudden you start thinking back to the little nuggets dropped back in Philadelphia last year and throughout the year and it all starts to make sense and it's incredible theater and it's cinema and WWE has never, at least in the last few years, I will say they have never felt so close to the mainstream. Drake is in freaking attendance.

Travis Scott, like I said, by kids are more excited about Travis Scott's involvement in this angle than anything else. They think he is the coolest and I'll be honest, like I'm wondering what's he got to do with it? Like he just kinda showed up, but that's gonna keep me watching and that's gonna bring in younger kids who adore him, who are in their teens. It's all brilliant. But if we're gonna have the debate, the Hogan one was bigger. The Hogan one was more shocking.

This was incredible, this was fun. There is no loser, but if I have to weigh in on one, the Hogan one was bigger. This is unique because it will never happen again. Mark my words, there will never be a baby face for over a decade turn heel in this type of shocking manner. Does that make sense? It will never happen because people are coming in and out all day long and

everyone's who's who's a heel has been a face and everyone who's a face has been a heel. Sina was the last. There was no one else. And for him to do it in his final year is pretty damn amazing. I freaking love it. It's pretty incredible. But to the point, like it's also a version of right. The Hogan is like the moment.

And this is like like when you first see the sixth sense that twist it's like holy shit years later now everybody's done a twist you kind of can can expect and have seen it coming as the original is always the the one yeah it's does it have the potential to change area because obviously you're saying you're looking back on the Hogan thing and we know Monday night wars that that played out over a long distance of time like is there any way that this could have that kind of change across Hogan thing and we know Monday Night Wars that played out over a long distance of time. Is there any way that this could have that kind of change across the whole industry?

Like you know the scene in comparison to Hogan because obviously when Hogan did that spray paint all that stuff it was playing out over years and months with the Monday Night Wars and stuff. Is there any way this one could have the same amount of change? No, because the change isn't there to be had. The change isn't there to be had. The change isn't there to be had. The, the, the, the, the industry isn't what it was back in the nineties.

It could be, it could be huge. It's going to be big box office. It's going to be fascinating theater, but and maybe that's, it's unfair for me to say, but the change just isn't there to be had. If this was happening in AEW and this helps propel them, then you could start to compare it. But WWE is so far ahead right now.

They're cooking with Crisco. They're cooking with Gaz. Anyway, we'll talk more about all of this throughout the show. We'll get Darius' thoughts on it. We'll talk to Keith Aydek on it. Well, not on the John Cena stuff, but on the Tank Davis stuff and the Patti Donovan stuff.

We have a lot to get to. Let's get to our first guest of the day. He finally returns to action, gents. He returns to action on Saturday. A week ago this time, he wasn't scheduled to compete at UFC 313. But now he is. And it's a rematch of a fight that I thought

he won back in 2023. Don't tell that to Justin Gaethje. He gets very mad when you bring that up. But I still believe it. Anyways, he's Rafael Faziv. And it's great to have him on UFC 313 Fight Week. He's kind enough to join us. Hello, my friend. How are you? Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. It's good, man. It's good to talk to you. It's been a long time.

I like I like the longer beard and the longer hair. Yeah, all of this time I'm growing my my hair. Where have you been? Home bro. Home, train. My baby girl born. This time I have a baby girl. I'm very happy. Baby girl and new hair. So happy. So the last time we saw you, Rafael, was back in September of 2023. And we remember, unfortunately, you injured your knee in that fight. What exactly was the injury and did you need surgery?

I'm tear my ACL the second time, the same place. And yeah, that's mad. I did surgery. I did rehab, everything. I did my best. I care about my knee all of this time. And what I came to do, all my best I do for this knee. Now it's ready.

When did the knee get to be 100%? When? I think it's some August time, August July, I'm ready for 100%. Okay, so August July, right now it's early March. That is like seven months ago, right? Yes, man, yes. Why did it take so long to get a fight and a short notice fight? I don't know, you know, I don't know. I'm not sure how many people say no to fight with me and I don't know why nobody called me to the fight. Only one guy called me to the fight, Goram Kutatiladze.

Nobody called me to the fight and no fight. So, so nice for them. All of this time I'm thinking about short notice and I try to be stay in shape and looking my way. Was the UFC trying to the best of your knowledge? Were they trying to book you in fights? They're saying for me a few times like, like, okay, you fight October and after like one and a half months before October, they're saying, okay, December, sure October and after like one and a half months before October they say okay December sure and after like one and a half months before December oh not December for sure for sure February 1st again against Gamert in Saudi Arabia I said okay okay nice and after then every time

change change change you know I don't know what happened with fighters or what. This business sometimes going like that. Yeah. Were you getting frustrated? Oh yeah, oh yeah. This is very, honestly, it's very surprised to me because I have a feeling for short notice and but not Justin, you know?

This is like, wow. Okay, so what happened? You found out that Dan Hooker got hurt and then what did you guys do? Well, when I hear that, I straight away saying like, I'm ready, let's go. I tell him to, I call him to my, my manager call me, he say like, hey, this, this, this situation,

I say, hey, let's go, I'm ready. I'm just, I'm just like, let's go. I'm ready. I'm just like, let's go. I want to tweet. Yeah. And ready. And again, waiting what they're saying to me. And after next day, they're saying, no, they don't want to fight you, no fight, blah, blah, blah. I say, okay. And I go the same time I go in to take some like one kilogram ice cream and I eat one kilogram ice cream And next morning the count is a pack your bag Serious that happened. Why'd they say no initially?

Um, I don't know. I don't know what I don't know who say no, who say who say no no no But after the next day they say yes. I know Do you think it was the UFC that didn't want it or Justin that didn't want it? I hear, I don't know, sure. I don't want to hurt anybody, but I hear his coach say like, no, no, no, we don't want, we don't want this fight, but Justin say yes for everybody, you know.

Okay. And just curious, initially, was it you guys who volunteered or was it the UFC that reached out to you guys first, initially to take this fight? Again, sorry? Sorry, was it your team that said, hey, UFC, we're willing or did they call you first

and say, hey, are you available? Who reached out first? No, we stayed first. We stayed first. Okay. And can I ask, like, how much did you weigh when you said that you would fight? Oh so I tried to be I tried to stay on I don't know in pounds but I tried to stay like 79, 79, 80 kg. Okay that's like 174, 79, 174, 175. Yeah I'm trying to stay on this weight. I look this way.

And yeah, now it's everything good. I cannot say like I'm cutting weight bad. It's so hard right now. I something that I'm not. It's almost like I have camp. Okay. And I'm sure the fact that you fought him before just, you know, two years ago, that helps as well.

So you've already game plan for him. You've already prepared for him. Yeah, that helps as well. So you've already game planned for him, you've already prepared for him. Yeah, yeah, of course. After this fight, I'm thinking a lot about this, how much mistake I did, how much stupid idea I did in this fight. And yeah, right now I'm doing different for sure. What kind of mistakes?

Mistakes is, I hear Irina and every time when I do something or Justin does something, I hear Irina and I'm like, oh, fuck this game plan. I want to go forward and I want people screaming more. Yeah. And so you can't listen to the crowd. You can't get too excited and forget about the game plan. Yeah. And in my corners, excited and forget about the game plan. Yeah.

And in my corners, I hear them all the time, like, hey, stop, go back, go back, just move, just move. No need to go forward. No need. He want you to go forward. No need the war. No need the crazy stuff. Go back, just move.

And I hear all of this time, but I don't know. How do you stop that from happening again? Because this is going to be another big crowd and I'm sure they're going to be very excited as well. So what happens if they start going crazy? Yeah, because if, if we look my career in the UFC, I have every time like I have a fight to two rounds win, last round so tired and lost. And last round lost. So next fight I always like, okay, I come back to cold rain, I want to fight smart and spend my energy good on the rounds.

And again, I did maybe two fights good. And again, I forget about that and I start to rush. I start to be crazy in the fight because I forget like I have to save energy. And so one fight good, one fight bad, two fights not bad. One fight bad, two fights not bad. So it's going like that, I think. So afterwards, I remember watching the fight

and I said that I thought you won the fight. And I think some people disagreed. I think Justin disagreed with me. Actually, he told me he disagreed with me. Do you think that I'm crazy or do you think there was a case for you to win the fight? No, I don't think you're crazy. Okay, thank you. I don't think you're crazy, but you know, I might be with Justin. Okay. But you know, I might agree with Justin. This last round, I take a lot of, I deserve to lost this because I'm too stupid

on last three minutes. Was this one, because you feel this way, I would imagine this was one that you really wanted, that you were like thinking about a lot, that you would love to have back. But perhaps given where he is at and your time off, you thought maybe you would be a few fights away, if ever, because who knows how many fights he has left, right? That you thought maybe you would have to win a couple fights to get back into a fight with

him. Yeah, yeah. So this is like a gift, right? Oh my God, this is a miracle, man. For me, it's like a miracle because like wow like every time I saw I have some interview before like and many people saying like oh you want to rematch all of that what you think about rematch and I say like no man listen now I'm far from Justin and this cannot happen because I have to win maybe two fights or like more if I if I want to rematch with him but before this maybe he retired or maybe he stopped I don't know and

Now it's boom like that for me. It's like wow And I say it's a gift. I believe your birthday is on Wednesday, right? Oh Yeah, 32. What a time. It's all coming together for you Yeah, it's my best time right now. I think from 30 until 34, it's like the best time for all of men, all of the male people. I think this is like we're on the peak right now, on the top, on the mentally, on the physically. This makes me a little sad, Rafael, because I'm 42. So now you're saying that I'm past my-

Bro, you look like 32, man. Thank you. Okay. I appreciate that. I think I look more older than you, man. I saw some great pictures of you, like one where you're on a swing or something. It seems like you have a really great life out there. Look at this. Look how relaxed you are over here.

Where is this? Oh, it's every Sunday, man. Every Sunday I take my bike and we take, we have some team, we're riding. We're riding outside the Phuket. We're going to long ride like from eight, seven a.m. until like seven p.m. non-stop we ride, we watch some beautiful places, national parks, so a lot of beautiful stuff in Thailand. This bike that we just showed, that's the bike you're on?

Yeah, Harley Davidson, contact me please. This is crazy, this is very dangerous. Yeah dangerous but bro fight is not fight it's not dangerous I think. Oh I know but you're you're a high-level athlete what if you know you get a scrape here you know? Yeah I know but I'm this is Thailand man I'm on the bike since 14 years old first time I sit on the bike 14 years old so I have good experience and I'm on the bike since 14 years old. First time I sit on the bike 14 years old. So I have good experience and I'm drive, I'm not drive fast, I'm drive very smart.

Okay, you learned how to ride a motorcycle when you were 14. What? You learned how to ride a motorcycle when you were 14? When I, yes, yes, yes, first time, yes, 14. Who taught you when you were 14? When I'm yes, yes. Yes first time yes for who taught you when you were 14 Bro, I was coming to Thailand to World Championship. My Thai World Championship. I'm 14 years old Wow, and I'm I'm almost like we have like ten people like everybody juniors like me and Nobody nobody cared about us. Like we go take bikes, everybody, like rent bikes

and we go drive and maybe like eight people that have damages, but I'm lucky I'm okay. Good for you. I'm happy to hear that. I just, you know, you're such a tremendous athlete and it's so good to have you back that, you know, I get worried, you know, I get worried about the safety and everything.

I'm good man, thanks. So, you're back and you know what's crazy? I was looking at your Instagram and your pinned post on Instagram is from this fight where your face is all bloody from two years ago. And so I'm wondering, what is the, you know the photo I'm talking about with your face cut up and all bloody and your mouth open,

what does that signify for you? What does this signify when you see this? What do you think when you see this? Oh, I love to, I like these pictures, man. I like these pictures. I like this face. This is my life. This is my life.

This is how I go in my life. Always forward, always with damages, always hard. And in the fights, it's always like my goal. I want to show and people like it. People watch the fights because they want to watch the blood, they want to see blood, they want to see the smash faces. I know people like it, so I like it too. This is only skin on my face. This is nothing so hard sure It's no big deal. Did you miss that feeling? Miss yeah, did you miss it because it's been so long since you fought Yeah, of course, of course so much. I miss this feeling to go into fight all of this like

situation fight week and I'm more missed the win. Yeah. Because last time I win like long time ago. Yeah yeah. And can I ask since it's been so long, what's your impressions on the state of the lightweight division right now? Obviously Islam is the champion but you know the guys who are underneath him, how do you

feel about the lightweight division? Lightweight division is a lightweight division. So first is like, it's a most, most dangerous division, my opinion, most dangerous division. And it's, it's, I think it's again stuck in the top five. I fought with Justin for the first time. Poirier fought, Sandeni, Armand fought, Oliveira. It started to work, started to mix. But after it started to get stuck, it's again staying. So right now it's, I think, start to shake again, mix. So Islam champion, he's a, you know, he's a real champion and he deserved that. He showed everybody who he are.

And so, this is one of the best division, the dangerous division and we have a good champion and we everybody want to beat him. Were you surprised that Armand didn't fight him? Oh, very surprised, man. Very surprised. I want to watch this fight and I waiting this fight honestly. And when it's happened because it's like, what, how one day, yeah, one day he got to

hip out. So yeah, it's surprised for me because I really want to watch this fight. Who do you think would have won? I'm surprised more when Maikano go and when he lost in the first round, bro, I, you know, this champion, he's strong. And I want to see somebody give him like good rounds,

good fights, but man, he's finished like, he finished him on my kind of top and I was so sad when I see that. I was so sad like, bro, I want to watch more, please. Like, oh. Do you think Armin would have had a chance to beat him? Yes, I think I have. Before I think it's more for Arman, I think Arman has more scales for Wing. But after a few fights of Islam, I see how he's, because he's striking before is like not, not too, too, too good, but last two, three fights, he, he improved it about his striking wrestling. Of course, everybody know. Yeah. Now, before this fight, I think in 50, 50, but still like a very interesting fight.

You said that you want to see someone bring the fight to Islam. There's the rumor that Ilya is going to fight him, move up to 155. Do you think that he has a good chance to beat him? I hope, man. I hope I have not beat him, not beat them, you know. I don't care about who beats him or how. I just want to see the good long fight you know from the champion like how he how he fight on the three four five rounds like he fights with the Dustin this one this like good example that's what I want to watch like more more time to watching champion you know on the cage

what do you think happens if if all goes well you on Saturday? What do you think you get from this fight? What would be the next move? Oh, he's a former BMF champion. He's a rising number three. I don't know, man. I don't know. I'm on good, very good place after if I get it. So right now, honestly, I don't know what they can say after. I think this week we're gonna, I'm gonna think, we're gonna sit with the team, we're gonna think what, who we're gonna call out after this fight, what funny stuff we can do in the cage after.

Yeah. You always have a good call out. I was wondering if maybe Dustin Poirier, his retirement fight, would you want that one? Dustin Poirier? Well, we'll think, we'll think about that. We'll think. You want it.

What's that? What's that? We want it. My coach say we want it. Okay, he likes it. Yeah, he likes it. Okay. I like it too, yeah, man.

I like it too, you know? All of these fights, I like, man. Justin, Dustin, look, this is stars of the stars in this game. Yes. And fight with these guys for me is like, you know, I wanna go and shake the hands of Justin to saying like bro you give me this chance again man oh I'm not deserved it and you give

me this chance yeah I know the situation you have a full camp you want to you want to fight you know you don't want to you don't want to pull out from this card. But still, for me, it's like I want to shake his hand and I think, bro, you give me this chance again, man. Wow. Thank you so much. I love it. I love the humility. Can I ask you two last things? Number one, was there any talk of this being a five round fight or always three rounds?

I think none. I don't hear anything about five rounds. We start to talk about three. Okay, and it's 155. Maybe it's something, but I don't know. It's 155, right? Lightweight? No catch weight? Yep.

Okay, and in your mind, as you envision the fight, dream about it, how do you think you win on Saturday? What are you thinking? Our brain, oh man, it's a cold brain. Cold brain, thinking, move, and stay far from him, and everything smart, you know. Everything smart, use my skills. Not going forward for the war.

Okay. Be relaxed. Because last time, I wanna go use my skills, not going forward for the war. Okay. Now. Be relaxed. Because last time, I wanna go to the war, but Justin wanna go, wanna do smart, you know? That's my mistake. So be measured, be relaxed, be calm, don't get too crazy.

Yeah. Okay. For some reason, I don't really believe you, if I'm being honest. I don't really believe that you're telling me the truth. Oh man, yeah. I don't believe myself too. Okay. All right.

All right. Well, that is a good preview of what's to come. Great to see you back. Thank you so much for the time. Good luck to you. And we look forward to the fight very much. Good luck and welcome back. It's so nice to have you back in the Lightweight division.

We missed you. You're welcome, Matt. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it too. All the best. There he is, the great Rafael Fazeve. Amazing preview of a fight that I think is going to be great and he says he's going to be measured,

he's going to be calm, he's going to be calculated, he's going to be relaxed. And I'm not so sure I believe him. I don't know if either guy is going to fight that way. Perhaps Justin coming off the Max Holloway fight. And I was kind of surprised honestly to hear people say that they weren't so into this. Like this wasn't a rematch we wanted.

First of all, it's a fight put together on 10 days notice like what what are you talking about a B you know there were options out there but is is the gamarod fight better than this is the Darius fight better than this like I don't I don't necessarily agree to be honest this is an amazing fight did you forget how good the the first fight was the first fight was amazing I thought was amazing? I thought I enjoyed it I think people had extremely high expectations going into that fight I don't know if they were met. I don't know if it was if they you know felt like the fight didn't exceed the expectations I thought it was a great fight. I thought it was an entertaining fight. Remember it was the

the Usman Edwards card, part three. And so to get this on 10 days notice, he hasn't fought since September of 2023. Let's see what kind of shape he's in. Let's see how he looks. Let's see if there's cage rust that affects him, all that stuff and more. I thought they smashed it.

It looked for a moment like we weren't even gonna get Justin Gaethje. Like he was just gonna be removed from the card. That's what it looked like for a moment like we weren't even going to get Justin Gagey. Like he was just going to be removed from the cart. That's what it looked like for a moment. And then if you look at the options, the realistic options, Armin wasn't taking this fight. It would make no sense. There's too much to lose right now. Olivera and such short.

Like, no, this was a great, this was a great turn of events. Nothing will top the hooker fight. We were so excited. There was no way that fight was going to be boring. No way that fight was going to be boring No way that fight was going to not live up to the hype. This is a great plan B if you ask me So I'm looking forward to it and looking forward to it even more after talking to Rafael

In about 30 minutes time we'll be joined by Tony Ferguson. Stay tuned for that. But let's go back to boxing what a crazy crazy day was like I said at the top of the show it started in in Belfast with the Patti Donovan Lewis Crocker controversy and it ended on Saturday late late evening at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn with the Tank Davis Lamont Roach controversy here to talk to us about it all. Making his A8 show debut is one of our own on crown.com's and the ring's Keith Idick, the great Keith Idick is here. Hello Keith, how are you? Ariel, I just want to know why it took five months to get me on this show. It's

a little, little hurtful. I'm sorry, you know I see I see you out there battling everyone on Twitter these days. I'm like you know what he's very busy. He doesn't have time for... Yeah, that's uh, I don't know what to say about that. I got to... I wish I didn't have a Twitter account, I guess is what I could say. I understand. How you doing, my friend? You good? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. It's great to have you on. We have so much to discuss. And yeah, what a Monday to have you on. I wanted to start with, and you've done a tremendous

job of recapping all this and weighing in on uncrowned on social media on the ring as well But uh, and there's the article which I urge everyone to check out. Uh, maybe after this interview so you can focus Overall if someone were to ask you like what the hell happened on saturday at barclays in brooklyn What the hell was that? What is the answer that you provide to them? That is definitely the appropriate question. that's for sure. In real time, I was like, man, I've seen a lot in my, you know, almost 30 years of covering the sport. That was something else. So really what happened was Steve Willis just did not do what he's supposed to do as a professional referee. And then the New York State Athletic Commission did not do what it was supposed to do as the

regulator of the event and the entity that is tasked with upholding the integrity of a sporting event. And then Lamont Roach was cost millions of dollars, unfortunately, and it's primarily the fault of the New York State Athletic Commission. Replay was there to be used, Ariel, and why was it not used? I've heard some excuses about a technical malfunction. Look, they're not going to get out of this by claiming there was some sort of technical malfunction that did not allow their replay official to see it, because there are dozens

of television monitors within walking distance of where the replay official sits. So in a situation like this where there's so much at stake, they could have seen the replay on some other monitor or on the gigantic overhead screen above the ring. Whatever you need to do, you do that because there was too much at stake for this to happen the way that it happened, because had the knockdown counted, as we all know, Lamont Roach would have won a decision and there's some discrepancy as to whether it would have been a split decision or a majority decision or a unanimous decision. And that all relates to what's discretionary to judges. Would you have scored that round for Javante Davis and then made it a 10-9 round for Roach

because of the knockdown, because it wasn't a traditional knockdown, obviously. I mean, let's just say for argument's sake, you thought Gervonta Davis clearly won that round and he took a knee that wasn't really from a punch, but it kind of was, whatever his excuse was with grease in his eyes, which has now been disputed by his hairstylist.

And what are we even talking about now? It's just ridiculous. But be that as it may, Lamont Roach would have won. Lamont Roach should have won. Lamont Roach fought the fight of his life, rose to the occasion. And in the defense of Gervonta Davis, Ariel, for all the people who said that this was a mismatch, and I understand what the odds were, he was a minus 1600 favorite to plus 900, it was, according to the handicapper, a mismatch. The one person who said all along, well, two people, Lamont Roach was one of them. The other person that said all along that this is not what people think was Gervonta

Davis. He knew that he was in a real fight here. He knew he was in there with another quote unquote dog, which is what they both said. But Gervonta Davis thought, Ariel, like he had done so many times in the past, that even if he were getting outboxed, even if he were giving away rounds, even if he were losing at some point in the last third of the fight, would detonate one of those upper cuts or hooks or Whatever and knock out Lamont roach. It didn't happen. He learned an invaluable lesson from it and Now we're left in this aftermath

Unfortunately with the New York State Athletic Commission Trying to explain the inexplicable Okay, so great job summing it all up there. I wanna go like piece by piece because the monitor, snafu if you will, adds a whole other layer of controversy to this. What do you think should have happened once Tank took the knee?

What do you say should have happened? Well that should have counted as a knockdown and Steve Willis started to count. And he said something odd to Gervonta Davis as to well that counted as a knockdown and Steve Willis started to count. Yeah. And he said something odd to Gervonta Davis as to, well, that looked like a knockdown. He's not a PR person. Just do your job. Yeah.

You know, Steve is, overall has been a solid referee. I don't have a problem with him, but he just didn't do his job there. I mean, that's just, that's, you know, and there should be some consequences to that. Like maybe he takes a little breather and, you know, because he's taking a lot of criticism But he just didn't do his job there. And there should be some consequences to that. Maybe he takes a little breather, because he's taking a lot of criticism here. And it's not easy for referees who generally are instructed not to speak to the media. So he's not going to be able to give his perspective unless he goes against protocol, which he probably wouldn't do, because it would cost him assignments.

So we're not really going to hear from him, but we should hear from Matt DeLaglio, the executive director of the New York State Athletic Commission. They have some explaining to do here. It's going to be uncomfortable. It's going to be something that could bring a lot of heat on the New York State Athletic Commission, but it's a big boy job and that's his responsibility. He's a public employee and if he thinks he's going to sit there and not answer the phone and not answer any questions about this, well then we can start calling the attorney general who he reports

to and then we'll see what happens there. And you know that brings up a great point and it was also brought up in the Patty Donovan-Lewis-Crocker fight. Tony Bellew kept saying this in the aftermath. It's and we talk about it all the time in the fight game MMA boxing it doesn't matter. It drives me nuts that in the aftermath of all these fights promoters answer questions, coaches answer questions, fighters answer questions, but it's the judges and referees, the officials who never have to answer questions and I've equated it to you know pool reporters in the NBA. Yeah the referees aren't always, but they do make some kind of statement available You do get some sort of explanation as to what they were thinking in

Controversial moments last two minutes, etc. This happens in all the other sports yet in the fight game It never happens. They just get to walk home and and everyone says oh, you know, they're not a lot to speak I think that's hogwash. It's bullshit Marks McDonald should have spoke after the Patty Donovan fight and Steve Will should have spoke after this fight as well I don't know if it's ever gonna change But I don't know why they get protected and everyone else doesn't like sometimes in these in these fights like Eddie Hearn did nothing wrong In that fight in Belfast, but he has to answer why can't the refs slash judges answer these questions? And Ariel even worse in boxing and mixed martial arts.

In baseball, if there's a blown call at home plate or a blown ball and strike call, you know what? Aaron Judge shows up the next day and his salary is still $40 million. Lamont Roach loses or settles for a draw because an official made a mistake. It impacts his livelihood like it impacts people in no other sport other than MMA. So there should be even more accountability because scoring boxing and scoring mixed martial arts to a degree are subjective sciences.

I mean, imagine it goes back to last week, Ariel. I know this is kind of getting off topic a little bit. What happened in the Carlos Adamas, Hamza Shiraz fight. If we had open scoring in this sport like we should, and I've heard arguments against it that don't make any sense to me, if we had open scoring, sure, it's gonna impact whether one guy fights more cautiously

or one guy fights more aggressively, but that's what should happen because you should know the score. There's no other sport in the world, again, other than mixed martial arts, where you don should know the score. There's no other sport in the world, again, other than mixed martial arts, where you don't know the score as you progress. Imagine if the, again, the Yankees played the Dodgers and they said, well, we're not going to keep track of the runs.

We'll just let you know in three hours what happened and we'll, and we'll kind of guess. It's ridiculous. It makes no sense. And the sport needs to start operating. I can only really speak to boxing because it's what I cover and I know you're much more well versed in MMA.

The powers that be in boxing need to start operating differently, or this sport will be relegated to, all right, it's a niche sport now, it could be worse if they don't get their act together collectively and start behaving differently. I always liked you.

I didn't realize you were an open scoring guy like myself. I'm a huge proponent for open scoring. I think it's absurd that in 2025, the fighters have no idea was so much at stake where they stand going into the final three minutes, five minutes of their massive life altering potentially fights. It's a crazy thing. And those who say, oh, it's not as fun, it ruins the entertainment.

You don't get that moment and new and still. What, like really? What are we doing here? Like, could you imagine if there's a basketball game and we just stop scoring and then all of a sudden we find out at the end that the Lakers won by one? It's absurd. Back to the fight.

Okay, that's the knee hitting the canvas, but then when Calvin Ford takes the towel and wipes his face, is that not a DQ? It's grounds for a disqualification, but again going back to what I was saying about the scoring, everything is discretionary in terms of what the referee can and cannot do. Could he have disqualified him? He could have and some people would argue he should have. In this case, look, he bungled the whole thing, so it's hard to defend Steve Willis. But let's just say, Gervonta Davis didn't take a knee. He turned his back on Lamont Roach, also against the rules, and went to Calvin Davis to wipe his eyes, also against the rules. But let's just say, for

argument's sake, he couldn't see. Now, he should ask the referee, but in real time, you know, things get crazy or whatever. And I'm not defending Javante Davis, but I would say that Steve Willis or any other referee would say this is a high profile fight. It's very competitive. Yeah, he shouldn't have done that. But if I DQ him, is that doing a disservice to both guys? Well, it wouldn't be doing a disservice to, in some ways it would be doing a disservice to Lamont Roach now that I think about it though, because he could have won the fight

on points at that point, because he was, in my opinion, fighting a little more effectively than Jervante Davis. But so, yeah, you could have declared him the winner, but then they would have fought again. The bottom line is they're fighting again anyway, because he's contractually committed to the rematch. So let's just say Lamont Roach were declared the winner by DQ. It would be a conspicuous win, so to speak. There would be an asterisk next to it and they would have to fight again anyway. So it's kind of they're going to fight again anyway. So I understand your point and it

is true that that is against the rules, but would that have been a satisfying conclusion to all this for anyone I don't I don't think it would has New York explained why the monitors weren't working or why they're no no no no no Any question that you have that starts with has the New York Commission explained the answer is going to be no crazy That is that is I mean, it's, it's lunacy really. Did you agree with the scorecards? You know, they're pretty close 115, 113, 114, 114. Overall did you think they got it somewhat right? If we're, if we're forgetting for a moment, what should have been a 10-8 round?

Yeah, I thought it was a very competitive fight. I mean, Lamont Roach certainly had his moments and the thing that I thought more than anything, his familiarity with Javante Davis was a huge factor in all this. And I think that's what Javante Davis knew and why he was giving so much respect to Lamont Roach going into the fight. But beyond his familiarity, once he got into the ring and throughout the promotion as well, he showed no fear whatsoever.

He showed no intimidation whatsoever that other people do when they fight Gervonta Davis. In some way, I'm not saying every person that's fought him because Ryan Garcia didn't show that and others didn't show that, but a lot of guys, they come into it a little wary of his power. You should be wary of his power because he's a devastating puncher, but maybe too wary and giving him too much respect. And Lamont Roach did not do that at all. He didn't do it from the time the bell rang until the first bell rang, until the final bell rang.

He didn't do that. And that's a big part of it from a mental standpoint. There was a point, I believe, Ariel, I don't remember which round it was, but Tank, I think he kind of grazed him with a left, he might've hit him cleanly with a left hand, but Lamont Roach fired back with a right hand that knocked Javante Davis off balance.

I wouldn't say he was hurt, but he definitely had to reset his feet. And that was the point, I think, when Tank threw the type of punch that he thought would knock Lamont Roach out, and it didn't. And when it didn't, he's like, ah, man, this is my MO.

This is what I usually do. I give away rounds, and then I unload one of these punches that people can't take and I knock them out and I do a backflip and everyone goes home happy. That didn't happen Saturday night and in some ways he didn't know how to react to it. What did you make of Tank's demeanor all throughout the build to this fight? Dating back to the first couple press conferences where he says, this is my final year, there's

an exchange with a little kid who says he wants to be a boxer and he's like, don't go into boxing, go into soccer. He seemed somewhat like apathetic towards it all there wasn't really that fire It seems like he doesn't love boxing as much as he once did He's in this public battle with turkey ala shake He's battling with everyone and even on on on Saturday in the aftermath like he just kind of he didn't seem too bothered about it all And and and yes to his credit. He did say okay, maybe this adds a few more flights Maybe I don't retire after all which I don't know how many people actually believe that he would retire at such a young age But it just seemed like he's somewhat disconnected like he doesn't have that love he's talking about therapy

But he doesn't want to do therapy because it takes his killer instinct away What did you make of him as someone who's covered him for so long? Yeah He's a very complicated figure arrow in the sense that I want to preface everything I say about Gervonta Davis in saying that I am mindful of the circumstances from which he fought his way out of. And he literally fought his way out of abject poverty. He was, you know, abandoned by his mother and father.

You know, it's a rough life. So the fact that he came up through Baltimore, which is one of the most dangerous cities in our country in the worst section of Baltimore, and that Calvin Ford helped save his life is a success story without question. That said, he's 30 years old, and he needs to start acting like he's 30 years old,

because he's had a lot of things that have happened to him outside of the ring that are just frankly not acceptable to most responsible adults. And he's shown some growth in some ways, but let's not forget three months ago, he was six out, five, six hours late to a press conference and didn't even consider apologizing once he got there, because he's the star of the show.

And in some ways he has been enabled by people around him to behave the way that he has behaved, which in some ways was kind of, the ninth round was kind of a microcosm of Gervonta Davis' life in some ways. 43 seconds into the ninth round, he just decided, you know what, I'm gonna take a timeout. There are no timeouts in boxing, as we all know,

but he decided I'm going to take a timeout because I said so and he got away with that too. So he gets away with a lot of things that you shouldn't get away with. You know you can go back to the I believe it was the eighth round of the Hector Luis Garcia fight. You know he started looking out into the crowd when there was a fight in the crowd and kind of got a timeout there too. I mean that was a weird occurrence. I'm not saying there wasn't something going on outside of the ring but you know that he felt it was distracting or whatever but your primary focus has to be what's happening inside the ring. But to answer your question you know I know it kind of went in a roundabout way here but he was sending mixed messages. He wants to retire, he wants to get therapy as you

said which is which is a sign of growth, that he wants to be a better father for his daughters. And that's important, I mean, because beyond, because all of this, Javante Davis superstar stuff is going to go away within the next few years, because he's gonna be too old to compete at the elite level. And then he's gonna have to figure out

what he's going to do with the rest of his life. Now, hopefully he'll have enough money saved or enough property purchased or whatever it might be to live a comfortable life because he earned it inside of the ring. Whatever people think of his level of competition or anything else, these people risk their lives for a living and they're not doing it as a favor to us. They're doing it to better their own lives and to make money, but they are risking their lives and they do whatever, whoever you're a fan of or not a fan of. In my opinion, every boxer and every MMA fighter deserves our respect because they are risking

their lives. You know, some people question the courage of fighters. I don't like people doing that because most people don't have the balls to do this for a living as we well know. Yep. But he's a very complicated person, because he says things that make you say, okay, well, yeah, the guy's starting to get it a little bit, but then there are situations where he's had multiple domestic violence incidents,

and he's had a situation where he left the scene of an accident, people were injured. A lot of the things that he's done outside of the ring are hard to defend. Not that he's done outside of the ring are hard to defend. Not that he's looking for any of us to defend them, but they're hard to defend. And then some of his behavior otherwise is hard to defend, like showing up five hours late. I mean, you have to behave.

You have a responsibility as a superstar, and he is without question a superstar, and one of the few that we have in this sport, especially on the American side, to behave in a certain way. And he frankly doesn't do that oftentimes. I mean, he was, I believe he was an hour and a half late to the weigh in the other day. You know, it's just, it's always something. So, and that's not to say that people aren't making their best efforts internally at PBC to try to get him to behave in the way that he should when he's on the public stage.

They can't control what he does when he goes home, for the most part, but they have tried to counsel him and try to get him to behave in a certain way. Sometimes it's work, sometimes it's not. It's very frustrating for them because they know that this is not the way to conduct business when you're trying to create a public perception of someone whether you know people think that's fair or not that's what they're doing and when you show up five hours late for a press conference and then do a lot of other things and also his level of competition aerial too I mean it's I think people go

overboard sometimes because they make it seem like he fought like Joe Lewis's Bum of the Month club and he hasn't done that exactly. But I do understand the people who want him to fight Shakur Stevenson and Devin Haney and you know, T.F. Fimo Lopez. I know Lopez and Haney are at higher weight classes. One other thing related to that, Ariel, is something that I always try to stress to people who might not know the difference because they don't get the opportunity to be around

these fighters like we do. Jervonte Davis is a tiny guy. I'm not tall. I'm barely 5'7". I'm significantly taller than him. He's a small person. For the people who say that Lamont Roach was a smaller guy coming up, if you saw Jervonte Davis and Lamont Roach standing next to each other, you'd say, oh, Lamont Roach is the

lightweight and Jervonte Davis and Lamont Roach standing next to each other, you'd say, oh, Lamont Roach is the lightweight and Jervonte Davis is the junior lightweight. He came in under 134 pounds where Lamont Roach came in at 135, and Lamont's probably about 2 inches taller than him and I'm sure weighed more than him inside the ring. So some of that stuff about bringing guys up in weight while it's technically true is a little overblown. And I think his resume gets picked apart to some degree Because there's a hatred for his success And let's be honest, man. I mean there's a lot of racism in our country, too

So i'm not saying every person that that doesn't like javante davis is a racist some of their Problems with him are justifiable but some people are racist too. And there is an element of that to it, and we'd be stupid or naive to believe otherwise. I know they've been going back and forth on Twitter today. Do you think they ultimately run it back right away? Yes, because I think that all the momentum is there for it to happen next. And what I hope that they do, and I've kind of spoken

to people internally about this a little bit since Saturday, this fight belongs in the DMV somewhere, either in Baltimore, in Washington, somewhere in between, and it would be a perfect opportunity once the weather clears up here and it's nicer in the northeast to mid-Atlantic region to put that fight in some sort of baseball stadium or another stadium outdoors because they'll price the tickets accordingly because it'll be such a big venue. They would do a huge crowd for that fight down there and now there's so much more momentum going into the second fight as opposed to the first fight, which some people thought

was a mismatch for whatever reason. This rematch will do huge business and who would have thought a week ago we'd be saying, let's make the Javante Davis Lamont Roach rematch in a stadium in the DMV somewhere in the summer. In the in the post-fight press conference he was sort of pressed as to who he was going to call out he kind of teased that he was gonna call someone out and and someone asked if it was Shakur and he said no and he said the guy was here and he was in my locker room but he never actually said the person's name do you know anything more about that I don't know who was in his locker

room but one thing I do know and I reported this for the ring I don't know if it's been posted on the website or not so let's make it an aerial Hawaii show exclusive for an intermediary let's say after the fight on Saturday after what happened with the Mont Roche probably within a's say, after the fight on Saturday, after what happened with Amont Roach probably within a half an hour after the fight was over, someone from Gervonta Davis' team approached a top-rank executive and asked about Vazily Lomachenko being available for his next fight. So that fight, which was supposed to happen November 2nd at MGM Grand Garden Arena, and

the deal was almost done, pretty much done except for the fact that Loma didn't sign off on it and then decided that he would want to maybe retire. That was still in the back of Javante Davis' mind even after what happened Saturday night in its immediate aftermath because they did ask about that fight again. He does want to fight Loma. I know a lot of people will say it's five, six years too late, but Loma is still unavailable until top rank is told otherwise. So that's not an option for him, even though he wants that fight. But he, in my opinion, no matter

what the contractual status might be, he needs to go clean this up. Maybe Lamont Roach wins the rematch because that was a very competitive fight, but that's the fight that should happen next. And I think that is the fight that will happen next. Do you think this is his last year in boxing? You believe him? No. No. Devante Davis? No. No, I, no, I think there's too much money to be made here. You know, let's just say for argument's sake, Ariel, he goes and wins the Lamont Roach rematch. You know, uh, I don't think Lomachenko is going to fight again. I think he's in a war-torn country. There's a lot of craziness going on over there.

He has to protect his family and his business interests and everything over there. So he just might not have it in him to fight anymore. So let's just remove Lomachenko from the equation. Doing that, if we say that he beats Lamont-Roach in the rematch, which is no foregone conclusion, obviously, based on what happened Saturday night, but let's say that he does There are real options there for him and you know She of course Stevenson will fight someone else in the interim And I think that's the fight to make if he beats Lamont Roach which I thought what would have been the fight to make now

Had he beaten Lamont Roach on Saturday night, and I think there will be Whatever was said to Turkey Alishik, and obviously and obviously I'm employed by you and I'm employed by Turkey Al-Sheikh. I mean there's no secret there obviously but if they want to make enough money available for Gervonta Davis and for Shakur Stevenson to make that fight they will and at a certain point they will offer enough money where you will not be able to turn it down They've done that with they just did it with Canelo So they just offered Canelo and so much money where even though he was gonna make roughly

$75,000,000 guaranteed to fight Jake Paul It was just too much money to turn down and that's the reality that we're all living in now and people should look in the short term at least you're gonna have to accept it that this is the way it is now and when they want something for the most part they're going to get it you could turn it down I suppose but who I mean I real seriously who turns down tens of millions of dollars I don't know anybody who does that no I mean certainly not you know people that hang with us athletes are a little bit different they walk away in their prime.

Well, listen, you might have tens of millions of dollars. Yeah, no, not there yet. I wish, I wish. Not quite there yet. By the way, just as a quick aside while we're talking about New York, this Times Square card, which we found out yesterday, is going to be called by the great Jim Lampley.

Coming back, what a story that is. Do you have any idea? I guess we're gonna find out tomorrow. There's a press conference here in New York at the Palladium in Times Square. Is this open to the public? Is this a ticket thing? I know Turkey himself tweeted like it's gonna be a VIP thing but I'm still kind of blown away as to how they're gonna pull this off. Yeah I'm looking for clarification on that myself and I don't know that that's entirely been settled

yet but yeah there was something where I was told and I don't don't hold me to this obviously I mean your listeners I mean and viewers don't hold me to this but I was told at some point you might have to be a ring magazine subscriber to to be involved in some sort of lottery or something like that but I'm not sure where that is right now so we can definitely you, you know, I can circle back to you and just, you know, let you, you can, you know, tomorrow, I can just tell you, you mentioned it on the show or however you want to do it.

But I don't know that yet. But we should have clarification on that soon because the tickets would either go on sale or they would have to explain to people how to get involved in some sort of lottery. Because remember, there are not going to be a lot of seats available. Although I heard Oscar De La Hoya say there were gonna be millions of people in Times Square, involved in some sort of lottery because remember there are not going to be a lot of seats available.

Although I heard Oscar De La Hoya say there were going to be millions of people in Times Square, I can assure you there will not be. So it's going to be a finite amount of people and then, you know, they'll just go from there. The other one, it just kind of came like, okay, we knew it was going to be, you know, Garcia and Romero. We knew it was going to be Haney and Ramirez. I didn't hear anything about Tifima Lopez against Arnold Barbosa. Where does this come from? We thought it was going to be Martin Bacoli, but then he loses.

The fact that a fight like that just gets made out of nowhere and now makes the three fight card even better is what really blew me away. Yeah, and it keeps it all restricted within the junior welterweight division, which is really important because obviously Ryan Garcia is going to fight Devin Haney if they both win and they're both favorites in their fights. But if they both win, they're going to fight each other. But then, you know, Tia Fimo and Arnold Barboza, which is a very competitive fight, should be very interesting.

You know, those guys have been circling each other for quite some time. So we're finally getting that fight. Again, it just goes back to what I was saying, Ara, when just when fights at times in the in the old world that we lived in them by the old world, I mean, like last year, the year before, you know, sometimes it's just not the money available to make the fights that you want to make. And now it's not really like that. It's sort of like fantasy boxing. It's like This is not a joke like turkey wakes up and says I would like to see so-and-so fight so-and-so and then he gets

Connected to so-and-so's manager or promoter or however they go about it and suddenly those fights are made. That's just just a way It's kind of like sometimes I wake up and I'm like this is really happening like every fight that we want to see for the most Part that we haven't seen for quite some time is now happening and that's been and that's not to say that No, we didn't get to see any of the fights we wanted but it was kind of like a treat almost when you saw Errol Spence finally fight Terrence Crawford or you know pick two guys now It's like every other month you're getting the fights you want to see and then of course people are still like Last week's complaint was it's too many fights. It's too many Listen, if your complaint is that you're getting too many fights for 26 too many competitive

intriguing fights for $26 Log off take a walk outside and and gather yourself Log off, take a walk outside, and gather yourself. The only one we're really not getting is AJ versus Tyson Fury, but that's a different topic for a different day. Could I ask you about what happened in Belfast? Did you see that Patti Donovan lose Crockett? You know, I haven't even, I just read about it.

I haven't had a chance because the weekend was such a whirlwind and everything. I'm going to go back and watch it, hopefully tonight, actually, but I read how crazy it was, but I don't have a real perspective on that. Just another another I would say botched job by a referee obviously there was a shot after the bell but I just I think the referee was way out of position and not fair to DQ Patty Donovan I'd love to see them run that one back. Okay before I let you go I do want to quickly get

your thoughts on on you bank Ben and what we saw last week It feels like the fight is infinitely bigger now after what happened over the last two years and then the press conferences With the you know with the with the eggs and whatnot and they're going to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium your level of interest You know, this is obviously a huge deal in the UK. It feels like you walk around here in the streets of New York No one really knows about it. But in in in the world of combat sports, especially last week, everyone was talking about it. This is a traditional 147 pounder going up to weight classes. I know his last two fights were at 154. Connor Ben, but what's your level of interest in this fight between the two, the two famous sons of the legendary fathers? Yeah, it's a grudge match of epic proportions here, right? I mean, you have a and like you

said, it's intriguing to me because it's really kind of a welterweight Even though he's fought at 154 pounds moving up to fight a guy who's fought at 168 And I think they're more Competitive than your typical, you know 154 pounder going up to fight a 68 pounder. Although they're fighting at 60, of course but so there that element to it is very interesting to me because 60, of course. So that element to it is very interesting to me because I would have favored Eubank to win more if what happened to him against Liam Smith didn't happen. So that adds some intrigue to it as well, I think.

They obviously hate each other. And boxing is so popular in the UK, so much more popular in the UK in general than it is here in the United States. It's an enormous event. There are no two ways about it. I'm not saying that because it's a Ring magazine event and they work for the Ring. It's huge business over there. Tottenham Hotspur Stadium is an enormous venue. They're going to sell it out.

The other thing in the UK, which I wish were still the case in the US here, Arwen, I know you do too coming from your journalism background as well, newspapers still matter in the US here, Arwen, I know you do too, coming from your journalism background as well. Newspapers still matter in the UK. People still read the tabloids and the more traditional broadsheet papers. It's kind of like how I wish we were still operating in the US in some ways, maybe of jealousy is the right word, but just envy or whatever about how it still goes there because it's the world from which I came for 20 plus years. To see it over there, it's cool.

You know, like I'm not gonna go to the fight because we have a four person UK team who's gonna handle it. So I'll be able to be able to watch that one from home, you know, have a few friends over and kind of enjoy it. I get some food and that kind of thing and watch the fight. So I'm looking forward to it in that sense. And you know, I know that was wild what happened when he smashed the egg on his face last week.

It's a great promotional ploy and a great psychological ploy by Chris Eubank Jr. who knows how to get under people's skin. He's not a Hall of Fame fighter like his father, but he knows how to get under people's skin. That's for damn sure. Oh, I can't wait for that. April 26, Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. What a time, Keith.

Press conference tomorrow, press conference on Thursday, New York for Canelo versus William skull It's a great time to be in the boxing business No rest for the weary my friend. I love it. Keep up the great work on crown.com Is it the ring.com or ring magazine.com? I think it's ring. Yeah, it's ring magazine.com now. There it is. There it is Pleasure as always to talk to you great to have you on the show for the first time. The first of many, sorry it took so long. That's all. No worries, I appreciate it. Go Knicks, let's go.

Yes sir, yes sir. Thank you so much. Keith Idick joining us. He is our boxing guy and he has been doing a tremendous job. He has been doing a tremendous job covering the sport for us but really covering it for the past, as he said, 30 years, I believe, with the Bergen record and BoxingScene.com.

So many different outlets, and these days for Uncrowned and The Ring. Let me just tell the boys here something. Okay. Who me? Yeah, that's right. Frank, how was your weekend? It was great. Thanks for asking. Yeah, everything good. Everything was amazing. Yes. Yes. This is great. This is all happening in real time. Okay, so slight update. Do you have to move, oh, Nottingham Forest Ipswich town has begun guys.

Anyone interested in that? Locked in. Yep. Thank you. You're the first Arnold Allen. Yes. Good stuff. Thank you GC, appreciate that.

Of course man. Tony Ferguson is supposed to be at 230, pushing him to the back end of the show for reasons that actually have nothing to do with Tony Ferguson if I'm being honest so you can't pin this on him. But that's okay because I'm very excited about our next guest. This is a big one my friends because actually it was about I think two or three years ago I ran into the artist formerly known as Sonya Deville of WWE, and she told me that she was a former MMA fighter,

and I was like, MMA fighter? I had no idea. I mean, obviously I knew her from the world of professional wrestling, and then did a little research, and all of a sudden I come to find out two in one is an MMA fighter, amateur fighter as well, had a great run in WWE and earlier, well not this month, last month now,

found out that she was going to part ways after 10 years. So wanted to talk about her great career, what happened, where she goes from here. She is kind enough to join us in studio, so let us say hello to Daria Baronato. There she is. Formerly known as Sonya DeVille. How are you?

I didn't know you were gonna remember our last meeting. Oh my gosh, yes absolutely. It stuck with me for, well I'll talk into the microphone. It stuck with me. I think it was either in St. Louis or in San Antonio, Royal Rumble. Royal Rumble, yep. You were with Liv, Jersey Girls.

My bestie. And you came, and talk into the microphone, don't be shy. Yes, there it is. Get close, get the mic. Yes, get close so we can hear you. and you told me that you were a former MMA fighter Yeah, I was like, I don't remember hearing that that's so funny They didn't make it part of your gimmick maybe in the early days early days in the very beginning It was very much who I was in the ring and then I

Evolved I started talking on the mic a lot more I kind of really dove into the evil manipulative character and kind of got rid of the MMA stuff. But yeah, that's where I started. So we'll put a pin in the MMA stuff and come back to it as we talk about the life story. Because a lot has happened to you and with you over the past month. It's almost been a month, I think February 7th.

Yeah, my contract ended the 20th. The 20th of February. Oh, wow. So what happened? So it was coming to an end and you February. Oh wow. So what happened? So it was coming to an end and you guys parted ways. So we were negotiating. We were in talks to sign a new contract.

I was completely under the impression that it was going well and we would sign something. And then, yeah, I was on a trip with my daughter, cheerleading competition, and I got a phone call from the powers that be and they were like, hey, we're gonna go our separate ways and I was like oh I was kind of surprised I'm not gonna lie and I was like is there a reason and they were like no creatively just hasn't worked out and we're gonna go our

separate ways what does it feel like to hear that um in years right yeah ten years so it was crazy I initially was shocked. I was like, what the hell? I did not expect that and not even an inkling. No, I mean I had like Feelings over the last like year or two I tore my ACL and then I came back from the injury and I felt rusty And so I wanted to get back to where I was prior to the injury But that was like just a matter of time in my mind It wasn't like a if it was like a. So I was just trying to get my footing again

and dive into this new character and storyline that they had for me. But not really, no. I mean, I had been there 10 years, I had great relations with everybody. And so I really saw us renewing the contract. And then after the shock wore off, I was kind of just like, okay,

this is the end of a chapter. It's the end of an error. It was a decade long, so grateful for it. I had so many good times, good memories there. I learned so much. And now it's like, it kind of felt like it was meant to be and it's time for like the next chapter of my life. As you were approaching the end of a contract,

was there any part of you that was like, maybe this is a good time to move on? Like, did you even think about life after WWE at all? So I did. I like never actually thought it was going to happen. I kind of thought I was a lifer and I was going to be there forever, but I did have talks with my wife multiple times because I do have other dreams. There's other things I want to pursue.

And I kind of felt like I was in a rut creatively there and you know, you don't always have full control. So it's like, I just think I'm one of those people that I do better in the driver's seat. And when I'm on my own, I can drive the car and I can kind of steer the ship and I feel better that way. How long have you felt that way for?

Maybe the last like year or two. Oh really? Yeah. It's tough to be in a rut for a year or two. Oh really? Yeah. It's tough to be in a rut for a year or two. Yeah, it just felt like we would get something started and then it would stop. It was very like start stop. And so, and I was never super frustrated.

I kinda just took it for what it was and I always was trying to reinvent and recreate, getting new wardrobe, getting new gear, working on my character, and trying to find a way to make something work. But sometimes, yeah, when you don't have full control, it's hard. And so when you get that call,

is there any sort of, not negotiation, but like, hey, let's consider this or that, or is it just like a two minute phone call? No, it was like a 30 second phone call. Is that it? And I'm not one to be, like, listen, they have their reasons, they wanted to part ways. it's not really in my mentality to be like but why please no like you know like I'm very I'm a big believer in like fate and

everything happening for a reason so I was like oh that's interesting but it must just truly be time for the next chapter of my life so so in normal life I'm not saying your life wasn't normal, but you know, a job, someone says like, we're gonna part ways usually, come to the office, you pick up your stuff, you say goodbye to people. Did you get a chance to say goodbye to the people that, obviously you could text them and call them,

but there's people that you see on the road, there's producers, there's writers, you never were kind of afforded the chance to say that to anyone, right? No, it was very, and like I didn't hear from anybody, obviously my friends reached out and everything, but I didn't hear from anybody from the office or anything like telling me what the next step was.

Like I didn't even know what to do. Like, RAW was coming up that Monday, and I was like, I don't go, right? Like, obviously my contract still had 10 days left on it when they told me that they weren't renewing it. So it was kind of like a weird situation. So I was like, do I go to work? I'm a workhorse and I never miss work.

So it felt really weird and no one called me. So me and my wife were kind of like, she's like, no, babe, I don't think you go. I don't think you go there anymore. And I was like, no. Is that the right call? Yeah. Okay, no one was expecting you then.

No, I mean, what am I gonna go do? I don't work there anymore. So yeah, it was weird. The one thing I will say, I've seen you've done a couple of podcasts since. You don't come across as bitter. You're not trying to burn the bridge. You've been in the business long enough. You know people come back, right? Right. All the time. And that's not even the reason why I haven't said anything negative. It's really just, I don't feel negatively about it, like genuinely from the bottom of my heart. Of course, there's like a little sadness, like gonna miss the memories, surprise, shock,

but like I'm not, I don't feel negative about it. I feel like it's just nothing is in our path by accident and you know nothing happens by accident. So it's like it must truly just be time for the next thing. You did a couple immediately afterwards, and you kept saying that you were still processing it. Yeah. Do you feel like you're still processing it, or do you feel like it's been processed? Yeah, maybe.

I feel like I have closure, though. You do. There's no real questions that I have, because it's like, I am happy. I'm in a good place. I think if I wasn't happy, then maybe I would have like that resentment or like, you know, why, why me?

But I'm happy and I'm excited for what me and my wife have planned and I'm like, oh, now I can do some of these things creatively that I've always wanted to do. What do you have planned? So me and my wife just launched our podcast. Yes, Unwrapped. Unwrapped, yes. It's on YouTube right now,

soon to be on all the other platforms. There it is. Oh yeah, there it is. So yeah, every Thursday we launch an episode and then we launch our Patreon, which is exclusive episodes just for our Patreon people. We launch every Tuesday on that. And so that's really exciting.

I also booked a film role that, ironically, I booked like three days before I was released. So I filmed that out in LA, that was super fun. And you know, not a lot of people know this, but like acting was my first dream. It was always acting and then MMA. And then wrestling kind of just came in my path and I fell in love with it.

But yeah, so I'm really looking forward to getting back in the acting scene. So you mentioned podcasts, acting, things of that nature. Not wrestling. So I don't know what I wanna do yet. And that's the truth. I have had conversations with people, but nothing decided yet.

Okay. Yeah. Are you interested or is it? Yeah, I mean, listen, I love wrestling, but I love fighting MMA just the same. Like they're in the same boat right now. So- You're gonna consider going to MMA? Well, so I had three amateur fights

before I got into WWE. And the only reason I stopped fighting MMA was because I got the opportunity for WWE and I was broke and bartending in LA and WWE offered me a salary to work out and train and so I was like, oh my God, yeah, I'd be stupid to say no. And it led me down this path that the last decade was.

Fell in love with it. But yeah, my first love was, I was fighting and acting out in LA. And so that door's not closed either. So you grow up in New Jersey. Yeah. You're a tough kid. Yeah.

You get into scraps. Yeah. You play soccer, you're body checking girls and stuff like that. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you come across, and I've heard you talk about this, which I appreciate and love as someone

who's been doing this for a long time, Chris Cyborg, Gina Carano. Yes. So the typical story is like I saw Rhonda Rousey in the UFC, but you were watching pre-women in UFC. And you say, this is for me. Yeah, I saw Gina Carano specifically.

I felt like I could just relate to her. We kind of looked alike, she had darker hair and she was just this incredibly strong woman that was kicking ass and looking beautiful. And I thought it was so cool. I Think I watched like you interviewed her back on day Yeah, I would watch your interviews with her and all her interviews and I was just like that's what I want to do That's me How old are you at this point? I was 15 teenager. Okay. Yeah, and that was before women were allowed to fight in the UFC

So it was like elite FC What were the other ones? Strike Force. Yeah, and I went to a Strike Force fight, it was supposed to be, do you remember when Gina was supposed to have her last fight? Yes. But then backed out and never had her last fight? The one in New Jersey.

No, it was in Dallas. Dallas, you're right, you're 100% right, yes. You went to that? So I went to that. June of 2011, I believe, yes. So I graduated high school June of 2011, I packed up my car, shipped it to Florida, and me and my mom flew to Dallas, Texas

to watch Gina fight, and then it got canceled. Daniel Cormier was on that car. Yes, Josh Barnett, Brett Rogers. Yup, it was a great car, but I was so excited to see Gina in person, and then it didn't happen. And yeah, so I moved out to South Florida on my own to train with American Top Team.

That's crazy. Yeah. You're 17, 18? 17. And your mom's okay with this? Well, my mom's like ride or die, very supportive. My dad was like, what are you doing? But I told my dad I was going to college.

So I went to a community college. You didn't tell him about the ATT part? No. Really? No, he knew I was training MMA down in Jersey, and then if I would have told him I wanted to move to Florida to train MMA He would have been like no way like, you know My daughter's getting punched in the face for a living like it's not happening his mentality on it was like

Like he's a businessman. He's a hard-working like blue-collar guy build a business from the ground up And so he's like, what are you gonna do getting punched in the face? Like he just didn't see the vision and I saw Gina and Chris cyborg and I was like no, that's the vision That's what I want to do I want to fight and I want to make movies and I want to do all these things like that's what I want to Do and so I did and I dropped out of college like two weeks in and Do you have any intention of going through with the no like the backup plan was like to do like federal law enforcement I was going for like psychology and criminal justice or something but

But no the the main plan was to get into Acting and to get into fighting. So how long were you in South Florida for I was there for a year Okay, and then I decided that if I really wanted to pursue acting while I pursued fighting, maybe New York was a better place Okay, so I moved right outside of the city, got my own place, bartending again, waitressing, and then I decided, actually LA might be the best place for these two worlds. So I saved up like three grand. I drove my car from Jersey to LA,

didn't have an apartment, I literally looked for rent signs, found one, went in, got the lowest price I could, moved in. You didn't get something before you left? Mm-mm. Why not? Because I was dumb and 19, and I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Spontaneous?

Is your mom asking you these questions, or is she just like, go for it? Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, she was like, she kind of just always trusted me. I was a very, I was, beyond my years, I was always a little adult as a kid. You know, I had a very, I was beyond my years. Like I was always like a little adult as a kid. You know, I was, I had a different mind. And so I was like, no, I got this.

Like, I'm gonna do it. I had confidence. So I think that gave her confidence in me. My dad was like, you're crazy. I'm not helping you do this because this is nuts, which I don't blame him. You know, I have step kids now and I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't know what I would say if they did that.

But I went out there. yeah, I got a job. I was working at Armani Exchange in the Beverly Center and bartending as well and training MMA in the morning and then taking auditions later in the day and started hosting a UFC podcast on After Buzz TV. Yes, yes, yes, in fact, do we have this? Oh no. There it is.

Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, stop. I know J-10, I remember J. In fact, do we have this? Oh no. There it is. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, stop. I know J-10. I remember J-10. You do? Yeah, Elite Days. That is so funny. Look at you, how old are you here? I'm a baby.

I'm 19 or 20. Actually, I was watching, this was after Shogun Dan Henderson 2, and I think 2013, the show. Stop. You guys are doing like a post show for it. Yeah, that's what we did. And your stuff is good.

Oh, thanks. I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I still don't. I had like a weird confidence in myself. I think it was more like ignorance is bliss kind of thing, but I believed in myself. Yeah, but I could never pronounce anybody's names. I had such a Jersey like accent back then.

And even when I watched myself talk back then, I'm like, oh my God, I had such a a thick accent and I had a lot of trouble pronouncing a lot of the names of the fighters. Yeah. By the way when you were at ATT, who were you working with? So a lot of people Steve Bruno was like my head coach he taught me everything I know about Muay Thai and then do you remember India Gomez? Yeah of course. Okay so she kind kind of took me under her wing as soon as I got there. I didn't know what I was doing, obviously.

And we would train, no lie, four or five hours a day on top of, then I would go to my Muay Thai class with Coach Steve, and then I would go to my Jiu Jitsu class after. So I lived at the gym. And then me and her would, we'd go get Cuban food, come back to the gym, shower, train again. I was obsessed, it was my life.

What a life. Yeah. And so you had three pro fights? Three amateur fights. The amateur fights. Yeah, two and one. Two and one. I think you won the first two and lost the last one.

Yeah, last one was a tight, close decision loss. Why'd you retire after? And here we have some footage. Oh my gosh. Look at this. Wow, the memory, oh yeah, that's my third fight. Yeah, that one was... Not as good?

It was fun, I had fun, but I, we both looked like we were in a car wreck after. Both my eyes were swollen shut, my nose was... I remember University of MMA, it was a great concept in California. It was. For amateur MMA. The live.

Yes, yes, yes. Downtown, it was really cool. So why didn't you stick with it? So it was only because WWE called. Oh really, you were planning on. Oh 100%, I had a title fight, an amateur title fight lined up. The same week that I had a fly to Orlando

for the Tough Enough tryout. Okay. To be on WWE Toughenowf. Is it accurate that this all came about through Maria Menounos? Yeah. That's wild. It's crazy.

So you're friends with her? So yeah. I know she officiated your wedding, but you're friends with her at the time? Yes. How are you friends with her? The UFC After Buzz show. She owned that network.

Oh really? So After Buzz is her and her husband Kevin created After Buzz, which is a bunch of after shows on different TV shows and sports. And so I met them there, we hit it off, and Maria, that U of MMA fight you just showed, she was there with her husband, with her dad. They loved MMA, her dad loved MMA. And it was like a bloody fight. And afterwards her husband came in the locker room and he's like, hey, like you're great

at this, but I see you doing something else. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then two months later, just how the world works, WWE called Maria to do Tough Enough. Maria's like, I don't wanna actually wrestle. She's a huge celebrity host. She's like, I don't wanna actually wrestle full time, but I have the perfect girl.

Wait, they wanted her to wrestle. They wanted her to be on Tough Enough, which is like a reality show to get into wrestling. She's like, no, but I have the perfect girl. And she called me. She's like, you might say no, but like hear me out. And I was like, oh, it's a competition show? Like that's right up my alley.

I was like, yeah, but I'm, you know, never in a million years did I think I was gonna get on the show. Never in a kajillion years did I think I was gonna get signed to WWE. I in a kajillion years did I think I was gonna get signed to WWE. I just thought like, oh, this opportunity to compete and be tough on a reality show. So I was like, sure, I'll do that.

So I actually had to pause my title fight for this organization, went and did the show, got on, was shocked. I was like, I don't know how that just happened. Did you know anything about wrestling? No, nothing. You didn't follow it, you didn't watch it? Nope, I mean I studied as soon as I got the opportunity.

No, I mean as a kid, teenager, you were just unaware of it or didn't like it? So my mom watched Total Divas, my mom always watched reality TV, so I watched a couple episodes of that with her and I thought it was only acrobatic and I was like, I don't do backflips, so I can't be in this world,

not realizing there's so much more to it right but I always thought it was very cool when I saw it on Total Divas and then when I got hired ironically it was when they were trying to legitimize the women's division Divas error was fading out and you know they were trying to really get more serious about the women's division being athletes and so I was the first MMA fighter they signed ever in the women's division. And so I brought something different and I was like, oh, I don't have to do back flips.

I can punch people, kick people in the face. Was it hard to retrain your brain to like pull the punches and pull the kicks and things like that or? Yes and no. Yeah, at first I was definitely like rocking people, but I had such a good coach, the performance center, Sara Mato, and she was just like, you can't kill people.

And so I would practice on the punching bag, pulling my punches and stuff, and I got the hang of it. Did you like it right away? Yeah, I loved it. And were you OK? Because an MMA fighter or someone who wants to be an MMA fighter would be like, I don't want to do the fake stuff.

That was my initial thought. I was like, I'm not doing this fake stuff. And then when I looked into it, and once I went to the tryout and saw how intense it was, I was like, I'm not doing this fake stuff. And then when I looked into it, and once I went to the tryout and saw how intense it was, I was like, oh, it's not fake at all. Sure, it's rehearsed and it's predetermined, but it's not fake. The physicality is very much real.

And so once I saw that, and listen, I always wanted to act, I always wanted to fight, and now here's this world that's performance-based fighting. It was like everything I wanted to do, in a different way. So yeah, like the, you know, they kind of put you through the wringer early on to see if you can hang. Yeah, that happened to you. Um, physically, it was easy. I was in fight shape. I, you know, I just got out of a camp. I had my third fight and went straight to the trial. So So physicality-wise, it was tough, but I was able to, you know, no problem. And then mentally, no, no one really messed with me like that.

I mean, it is... No one messed with the fighter. Yeah, I mean, there were girls that came in from different backgrounds, like modeling and stuff, where at that time when we were evolving, they kind of got more heat and more hate. It was like, oh, who's this model? You know, but I was coming in with the fight background.

Everyone kind of understood why I was there. And so, yeah. What about the mic work, like being a character as opposed to just worrying about wins and losses? Yeah, so I really wanted the mic early on, but no one saw me as that. Everyone saw me, I was the MMA fighter. That was my gimmick, that was my schick,

and that's how I was known. So no one thought I could talk on the mic. Here, I had been taking acting classes since I was the MMA fighter. That was my gimmick, that was my schick, and that's how I was known. So no one thought I could talk on the mic. Here, I had been taking acting classes since I was like 12, and that was the part that I really wanted to dig into. And the opportunity arose, or I made the opportunity during the pandemic. My best friend Mandy and I had gotten into a storyline

and I was like, can you please just give me a promo? Just give me the mic. And they did. storyline and I was like, can you please just give me a promo? Just give me the mic. And they did. And the promo was great and Vince was standing up in Gorilla after kind of clapping and he gave me his nod of approval. Like okay, and then from then on, it was like screw the MMA gimmick, let's just talk.

And so that's how my character kind of evolved. Well, by the way, what is that like when you finally get that? It was the best feeling ever. Honestly, it was such a long time in the making. I had already been in the company for like seven, eight years at that point, and I really just wanted to show my personality.

I was always just like the angry fighter, and I really wanted to have more depth in that. And so that storyline allowed me to do it, and having no fans, I don't know if it was less pressure on them, like, all right, give her the mic. No one's here anyway. And yeah, and I wrote that promo myself. And I was so proud.

And I knew it was gonna come out good, because a lot of it was derived from true feelings that I had at that time. And so it worked, and yeah, I was super excited. When you say write it yourself, is that not common? It is and it isn't these days, like it depends. The writers will always write you something, but if you feel passionately about something

and you're like, listen, I wanna add to it, I wanna edit it, you can, and give it back to them and they'll either be like, no, go the direction I told you to go or, yeah, go ahead, say that, you know? Like it's half and half, it just depends. But for that reason, I don't know why they trusted me that time and they were like, yeah, that sounds great, go say it.

I'm wondering, was the leash a little bit longer in the pandemic because you didn't have to worry so much about fan reaction and whatnot so you can maybe take risks and allow you guys to spread your wings a little bit more creatively? I think there's something to that, yeah, because there's no crowd regardless, so and you know, we're kind of plugging in the crowd noise, so it's kind of like whatever we want to happen can happen, but yeah, it was even after the pandemic, happen. But, um, yeah, it was even after the pandemic, things started changing and getting a little more lenient where like, creative energy was kind of dispersed both ways. It wasn't just like a one way street anymore. I thought you were phenomenal as GM. I thought you played that role

so perfectly. You dress the part like, thank you. It was so, it was so common to just see like an older guy as the GM, you know, dating back to the Bischoff era and whatnot, Paul Heyman, et cetera, and even now it's two guys, and they're great, but there was something so unique about your look and the fact that you were female and that you were young, you weren't past your prime or anything like that. Whose idea was that initially to put you in that spot?

This is the craziest story. So the incident had happened in my home, the attempted kidnapping, and they had told me to take time off. I didn't want to take time off. But I guess they were looking out for me and they were like, just sit home for a little bit. So that's why we switched the ending of me and Mandy's Summer Slam match. It was supposed to be hair versus hair.

And we all kind of decided like maybe that's like a traumatic move to happen right now because I don't know I can say anything I want now. I was supposed to be shaving my head. Oh my. And that was gonna lead to a big character turn and. Were you okay with that? I became okay with it.

I was not okay with it at first. But I was like, you know, they had promised me great things after it and they were like, it's going to lead to this badass character on the other end and we're going to really push it. And so I was nervous, but I was down. But once the incident happened in my home and I had to go to court and testify and we all kind of just decided like, this is probably not the greatest timing for this move. And so this is a crazy story I've never told actually. I walked

into the production meeting room the day or two days after the incident. They were like scrambling. They were gonna cancel me and Mandy's SummerSlam match because they thought maybe like we wouldn't be up for it. And I walk in the production meeting room. I didn't realize they were in the middle of the meeting. So there's like 30, 40 writers, producers, Vince, everybody in there. So I like cracked the door open and I'm like, Oh, I'm sorry. And Vince was like, no, he was like eating a sandwich. He's like, no, come here. And I went up to the front and I was like, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt,

but like, I just have to say something. And I didn't know I was going to be saying it in front of the entire production meeting room. I was hoping just to talk to like the head writer or Vince himself by himself. And so I ended up giving a speech to everybody and I was like, listen, I don't want what this guy did to dictate my career or my future. And it kind of pisses me off that that was the guy's intention.

So I'm wrestling at SummerSlam, one way or another. And Vince was like, okay, what do you want to do? And I was like, I don't know, it's gotta be better than hair, we have to make it equally as exciting as hair versus hair because I don't want the fans to be disinterested now because they're waiting for that. But I don't know, let me think on it.

He's like, okay. And then I left, and then me and Mandy brainstormed and we were like, why don't we do Loser Leaves Town? That's dramatic, right? One of us is gonna leave, we'll come back. So we planned this whole thing for me to lose and come back crazy. And it was like this whole plan.

Pitched it to Vince, everything was good. And then they call us in their office and they're like, actually, Mandy's losing, you're winning. And I was like, oh. And Mandy was kind of upset because she're like, actually, Mandy's losing. You're winning. And I was like, oh. And Mandy was kind of upset, because she was like, oh, I'm the baby face here, and you've kind of been kicking my ass the whole time, and I was like, yeah, I kind of saw her point,

and so we actually went and got the finished chain for me to lose. And that was, it was my decision, and I went in and I got it changed. And then, so then yeah I had time off after that. Okay storyline wise but also because of the incident whatever and then when I came back I Went in Vince's office. We were chatting and About like ideas what I could come back and do

And I was like, I don't know but I just got this custom suit made it's back at the hotel, but I can go get it maybe I can just be like like a boss like not Sasha Banks the boss but like you know something like that and he's like yeah go get it so I go get the suit I come back in his office in the suit and he's like that's it you're gonna wear it tonight you're gonna walk down the hallway and I'm gonna have people lined on both sides and you're just gonna just gonna look at. And that's all he told me. I didn't know that his plan was for me to be with Adam Pearce

or be GM or any of that. He just said walk down the hallway in the suit. I didn't even know, like, I didn't know anything else. So I walked down the hallway in the suit that night. That was it? That was it. And then what happened? And then as weeks went by, they were like, I think we're gonna start having you do some stuff with Adam Pearce and

you're gonna kind of be like an assistant to him. And I was like, okay, well, what's the end game? And I always hope the end game was like, obviously me and Adam Pearce aren't gonna have a WrestleMania match. But we would get into some sort of thing and maybe he could run Raw, I could run SmackDown or whatever. But it didn't kind of go that way. I was just kind of with Adam Pearce for a while

as he saw on Raw and SmackDown. Super fun and then yeah, eventually got out of the role and went into a story with Bianca. I thought you were so good and I always wondered if you wanted to do that, if you were okay with that because for a long time you weren't actively wrestling, right? Yeah, yeah, no, I missed wrestling,

but I liked that role. I just wanted the role to have a little more depth and personality. Like I wanted her to be a little more like puppeteering and like manipulative, and I was hoping the angle that I got into after the GM thing was something big and meaningful because I had so much heat. People hated me because I was abusing my power to an extent.

So I was really hoping the angle coming out of that role would propel me into that kind of top of the card. Why do you think it didn't? People have said they dropped the ball creatively. And I'm never one to blame creative because you are in control of your own destiny to an extent. But I don't know. I don't think they were ready to put me there yet.

What do you mean by that? I don't think they were ready to put me at the top of the card yet because there was such a good built-in story there. I had been nagging the stuff with Naomi and then with Bianca. It was so good, the heat was there, but then we didn't get the opportunity to have like

The big angle coming out of it and and so like when you're one thing that's obviously for the audience for myself that's fascinating about this world compared to MMA like You are in charge of your destiny, but you're really not right like there's the meritocracy only goes so far. And so when you think it should go X, Y, and Z, and it's clearly not going in that direction, how does that not become demoralizing? How does that not? You know, because I don't know if I'm just so diplomatic, but I'm like, it's a business at the end of the day.

They have hundreds of people to worry about. Like, not everyone can get that focus all the time. Like, it's kind of like an ebb and flow, and people's turns come at different times. It's all about timing. So I get it, like I get it. I get how things can slip through the cracks. I get how things can be not prioritized all the time.

I wish at some point I would have gotten that singles run, but at the same time, like I get how it didn't happen. How do you not become consumed by like the politics of it all? Because, oh, you see this person getting by, maybe you think you're more deserving or better, more talented. How do you not fall into that? Because as a fighter, you win fights,

you're going to fight for a belt. They can't deny you. Here, there's so much more that comes into play. So did you ever find yourself getting consumed by it? I'm like the worst politicker in the world. This is great. I'm the worst. So you're perfect for this world.

So it doesn't consume you. No, because I'm not good at it. I can't do it. You can tell if I'm lying. You know if I'm bullshitting you. Like I'm a straight shooter and I don't, I just don't have that in me. So when I would see it happening,

like sometimes I'd be like, man, I wish I could, I wish I could schmooze that person as well as I just watched that person. But I don't have it in me, I am who I am. If I don't like you, you can tell. If I like you, you can tell. And that's just what it is. And also, I'm not flirting with anybody.

They all know I'm gay. I have a wife. So not saying people do that, but in the world, people do that. So I just didn't have any of that. I didn't use any of that. I just was me and I was like, take it or leave it. That's another, at least to me,

very unique part of your story. You essentially come out via Tough Enough, right? Yeah, on the show, yeah. And yet you're a pioneer in this regard. In MMA, it ain't no thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Why is it, and maybe there's just, there's no one there who is, but.

I don't know. Like in MMA, we celebrate it, we talk about it, in wrestling that doesn't seem to be the case. I've never thought about that to be completely honest. I don't know. Because it's not like, I've talked about this before, I've received no hate or any kind of discrimination backstage or with my coworkers. Like I was just Daria.

You know what I mean? Like there was nothing to it. So I don't know why it's not as prevalent. You know, I feel like everyone has their own story. Maybe MMA is like a broad thing, right? There's different organizations and stuff like WWE specifically is what we're talking about like It's more tight-knit or all in the road together every single week MMA is a little different, right? You see each other, right?

When you cross paths in training or when you have a fight on the same card, right? When you do media together like you're not together all the time So maybe it's a little more personal in WWE and people like to keep their private life private. I don't know. In the early days of your, of your wrestling career, when they kind of made this part of your persona, your gimmick with the merch and whatnot and the colors, were you okay with that? Yeah, that was fully me embracing it. I was like in my rainbow flag error, and I was so proud and I was 20 years old, 21 years old.

And I was just excited because I had truly years old, 21 years old and I was just excited because I had truly not lived my truth for so many years. I was okay with my mom, my dad and my sisters knowing but if I was bartending and they'd be like, who do you live with? I'd be like, oh, this girl from Jersey. I was very coy about it still. I wasn't comfortable with who I was.

So once I came out in that way where it was very, like, coy about it still. I wasn't comfortable with who I was. So once I came out in that way, where it was kind of accidental, I got excited, and I was like, oh, yay! And people were sending me nice messages and saying, like, thank you for speaking your truth. And I didn't realize what was happening. I was, like, so naive to it. And I was like, oh, wait,

I'm doing something people are proud of. Wait, I should be proud of myself. And so I got excited, and I was all for it. Yeah, it was really great. How do you think, and here you are proud of. Wait, I should be proud of myself. And so I got excited and I was all for it. Yeah, it was really great. How do you think, and here you are from the early days. Yes. This is from 2019.

But wow. How do you think it would have happened? How do you think you would have come out to the world if it wasn't by accident? Right. It was like you just asked on the show if you were in a relationship. Right. Yeah. And like the prior questions,

I was watching other people's interviews before mine was like, what do you do for a living? Like, what's your favorite sport? And for you they asked that? And for me, yeah, they asked a couple other questions. Just by happenstance? To my knowledge, unless they knew something, but I don't know how they would know

because it wasn't public. I don't know how I would have eventually came out. I was in a relationship, so I would post my ex, but not kissing or anything. I feel like at some point I would have become comfortable enough to publicize it, and that's kind of how it would come out. But yeah, I really don't know. What's also somewhat, use the word ironic, unfortunate,

whatever it is, you finally win a title, tag title, and then unfortunately you tear your ACL. This is in 2023, right? Yeah. What was that like? So now here you are like, because now I felt like you were kind of going back to your roots.

They were playing up that you were tough, that you had like no more GM stuff, you're actively competing. You win the tag titles with Chelsea, Chelsea Green, and then shortly thereafter, right? Like a couple weeks later. Yeah, like two weeks later, I was so excited. I got my first title. I'd been waiting for that title for eight years, whatever it was. And yeah, I tore my ACL. I was, I was devastated, but I really think I'm good at compartmentalizing because it was like

too hard to bear. I was like, it's okay, we just got to get through this time period. And then I'm going to come back better than ever and I'm gonna have a great run and it's all gonna be fine. So. Was there any talk of maybe, you know, reviving that GM role, if you will, while you couldn't have completed it? Yeah, so I pitched it.

Okay. I did pitch it. And what happened? Hunter was kinda like, no. He kinda said like, it's not a role for active wrestlers. Like let it be a role for people that aren't actively on the card kind of thing. But I kind of wanted to go back there. It's just such a great, honestly it's easy heat.

You're in a position of power, you're not supposed to be in a position of power because you're a wrestler, but you are and you can use it to abuse the roster. So I loved it, I wanted to go back into it, because I think it was a hit when I was in it. So yeah, I wanted to see that again. So reaching the mountaintop, so to speak, and then getting pulled from active competition,

being on the road, how did you deal with that, being at home? With the ACL? Yeah. It was weird, I hadn't been home like that for my whole career, you know, active competition, being on the road, how did you deal with that, being at home? With the ACL? Yeah, yeah. It was weird, I hadn't been home like that for my whole career, you know, I'd been, whatever, seven, eight years,

I had been on the road 52 weeks a year, so it was a little bit of transition, but I happened to get married that year. So I was home with my wife and my stepkids, so it was kinda nice, you know, we got to enjoy, our honeymoon was like two weeks long, whereas if I was actively competing, I would've taken like a four-day honeymoon because I don't like to miss work And so it was kind of like, you know another thing where it's like

I think the universe had my back and was like, you know what? Enjoy this time because you're never gonna have it again You know, you only get one wedding. Hopefully. Yes. What a honeymoon. Hopefully Do you think that experience kind of helps you in in this moment now? Because imagine you were 52 weeks, 10 straight years, and this is really your first time. You got to experience what life was kind of like off the road. I think that's valid because yeah,

I did get a little taste of like, oh, I have a routine. I wake up the same time every morning. I have my coffee, I go work out, I go train. Yeah, it was really nice to have a routine. And that's something, to be honest, when you're on the road like you can be as disciplined as you want But it's very hard to have a routine right because some weeks are gone four days some weeks You're gone for two weeks at a time

So like there's no real consistency in scheduling whereas now I get to kind of do what I want when I want which is like a beautiful thing so it's like Yeah, my days look like working out, doing my auditions for television and film, and doing the podcast with my wife. When you got back, when you were cleared, when you were healthy, did you feel like you needed time to get in the mix?

Was it an easy transition, being away for so long? I was good, like, mentally. It was just more physically getting my knee and my body to do what it used to do. And I was training at the Performance Center and a lot of people don't know this, but I actually had a talk with Triple H and we were talking about how I was rusty in the ring

and I was like, sir, can I, I got you. Like say less, I'm gonna go to the Performance Center and I'm gonna train and they supported me in doing that. So I actually lived in Orlando for like two months. Oh wow. And was training at the performance center every single day and while I was injured I moved to Orlando for like

four months because my rehab and jersey wasn't coming along that well and so they were kinda like, do you wanna go to the PC instead? And I was like sure if that's what you need me to do. So I really was in Orlando for like six months over the last two years, trying to be the best that I could be, which is why I think I have so much peace right now,

because I'm like, well, then that was gonna, it was gonna happen how it was gonna happen. It's not for a lack of effort. It's not for a lack of, you know, work ethic or anything like that, or even talent. It's, that's just what they wanted to do right now and It's not in my hands by the way being you know a wrestler in the Triple H era as opposed to the Vince era What is what is the difference? What is it like? Oh?

There's like pros and cons at the same time. It's like as talent. You're not affected too much by it. Okay, um, he's had a creative I mean, it's a totally different vision. It is I Guess it didn't affect me. Okay much. I feel like um, I Had a good relationship with both of them I feel like Triple H has things planned further and advanced probably Whereas Vince was very much like, if something better came up that day, he would change it.

But I respect both, because I see the kind of genius in both. Because Triple H was an active wrestler in this era, did that change things? Do you think he connected more? Do you think that he had his finger on the pulse, knew what you guys were going through? Yeah, I mean maybe just naturally having the experience

as a wrestler, you know, something that Vince couldn't relate to in that regard to that extent. Yeah, he probably empathized with what our scheduling and stuff and what we were going through more. What about the Endeavor era as opposed to the old era, if you will, was there a big difference? I know we're just kind of getting into it now. Yeah, not really. I mean, not on my end.

Everything kind of felt same same. Because yeah, nothing really changed on our end. Are you aware, like, I know it's been pretty recent, but have you blocked all wrestling out of your mind? Do you want to take a break? Or basically what I'm trying to say is, did you know that John Cena turned heel on Saturday? Uh-huh, so I know that John Cena turned heel on Saturday?

Uh-huh, so I know, because I saw it on my ex timeline, yes. Can I just ask what's your reaction to that as someone who's been there for so long? Well, I love Cena. I'm a big Cena fan, and he's someone that's actually given me a lot of advice too.

So I am excited for, excited but really sad for his retirement tour. So I'm like, I can't even imagine a world in wrestling without John Cena popping his head in once in a while. But- Maybe it continues now. Maybe there isn't a retirement. Maybe he was lying this whole time about it.

Yeah, maybe. As heels do. Yeah. Are you surprised they did it? No, I'm not gonna be surprised by anything that happens on his last year here. I feel like it's gotta be big and it's gotta be surprises and it's gotta be, you know, a land-ish.

Did you like the way they did it from what you saw? I didn't, well, I just saw the clips. You didn't even watch it? No, I didn't watch. Even the clips did you watch? I just saw like highlights. I saw like a bunch of memes where they were putting like his angry face next to like his smiling face.

Is part of that because you need a break? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm compartmental. I'm a really good compartmentalizer, like I said before. Like I'm good at like, if that's painful, I'm just not gonna touch it right now, probably, to be honest. Would you say it is?

I just think my mind needs to be elsewhere right now. Like I have a wife, I have two step kids, and I need to take care of us, and I need to move on to the next thing. And there's so many amazing things that we have in the works, some I can talk about, some I can't. And I'm like, I just wanna be excited, I wanna be happy.

Sure. By the way, I agree with you. I'm pretty petty myself. I don't wanna revel in what the other place is doing if I'm not there. I'm talking about like for my own career. So I don't blame you for that. I was just curious.

I know you still have friends there, great friends, right? Of course, yeah. People that you will keep in touch with. Talk to live like every day, yeah. For the rest of your life. Yes. But you probably wanna just kinda move on mentally right now. Yeah, it's just like, I don't know what is good, what good is gonna come from me consuming

all that content right now. Sure. I don't need to be in that right now. If you were to sort of guess, and we won't hold you to it, do you think you continue in the world of pro wrestling? Do you think you pop up here or there or do you think you'll take a long? There's some people who say if it can't be with WWE I don't want to do it. Right. I think the chances of me continuing my wrestling career and the chances of me reigniting my MMA career are about the same right now. Right now, have any MMA promotions reached out

or have you talked to any? No, because I haven't even put that feeler out there. Okay, wow. So right now, and I didn't even plan to say that honestly, I just was thinking about MMA so much, actually on my drive here because I used to watch you and it was very reminiscent and you messaged me and I messaged you back and I was like,

oh my God, I've been watching you for years because of the MMA world and just really I'm in like the stage of my life right now where everything is gonna be based on like what I want and what I feel inside it's not for any other reason so yeah wherever my passion is strongest is where I'm gonna go. Do you think you have that you know that fire to get punched in the, like to do, you haven't done it in 10 years, right? Yeah.

Does that interest you? It does. How does your wife feel about it? Well, yeah, she's gonna hate it, but she also hated watching me wrestling get hurt. Okay. You know, my first real injury was in wrestling, not even MMA.

True, yeah. The irony, but yeah, she doesn't like watching me get hurt, but she's so supportive. So she's like, do what you wanna do, babe. And are you in this, you're in the Northeast? Yeah, Northeast. So you had trained here, or this is all very fresh, right? It's all very fresh.

All very fresh. There's no plans. Wow, what a story that would be, you coming all the way back? Yeah, I don't know. You can host AfterBuzz TV? Yeah. Is that even a thing still? It's not there anymore, but it's okay, I was gonna go with it. Yeah. But I'll come back here and visit you.

Yes, that would be incredible. Yeah. Wow. We'll see. You would go straight to pro at that point. Enough of this amateur stuff. I don't know. I don't know. There really isn't an amateur scene. There's not. Not really. There's a couple of promotions in Las Vegas. Yeah, I'm so out of the loop. I'd have to get back in. And I'd need like, you know, I'd need at least like a eight month year long camp. Did you do any training? While I was in WWE? Yeah.

No, cause I'm such a weirdo. And the way I compartmentalize now, I compartmentalize then. I was like a dead stop because to be honest, and I don't say this often, but I was heartbroken when I left MMA for wrestling. I was really messed up about it for probably a year to two years.

People would talk about MMA and I'd be like, what do you know about MMA? Because I was so in it. I was on the American top team. I was training. So why were you heartbroken because you felt like you didn't live out that dream? Well, I was just getting started.

I was fresh. I was 21 years old. I took three fights. It was going great. Even though the last one was a loss It was close like I felt good like I was I was I was on that journey and I was obsessed with it like it's all you do, you know fighters like it's all you do and Yeah, which is my life and I was excited to embark on the WWE journey but Very conflicted,

because I really, really loved fighting. Well, here's a chance. You're still very young. We'll see. Yeah, I'm 31. You mentioned the incident at your house, and for a casual fan, they might be thinking, what the hell are you talking about? Are you okay talking about this?

Yeah, that's fine. So I don't even know what year it was. 23, I think. Or culminated in 23. Was it? Yes, that's what. So I don't even know what year it was. 23, I think. Or culminated in 23. Was it? Yes, that's what I thought. 2023? It ended in 23, but maybe it happened in 20. It happened in like 2020.

Yes, okay. I think it kind of like all... Yes. He got prosecuted in 2023, I think is what you're talking about. So yeah, I was in my house in Tampa. My best friend Mandy was sleeping over ironically that night, thank God. And yeah, we went to bed late that night. I went into my bedroom, she went into the guest bedroom. All the lights were off, the house was dark. Thank God in my like stupor sleep, I set my ADT alarm from my phone and then rolled over, passed out.

2 a.m. rolls around, the alarm system goes off in the house. We start, I start freaking out. I get up, I run to the alarm panel because I couldn't find my phone in my bed because it was so dark, and it says living room door open. So I'm like, oh, maybe Mandy just went outside to call her boyfriend or something. So I run in Mandy's room, I'm like, Mandy, Mandy?

Hoping not to see her, but she was dead asleep in bed. So I'm like, holy shit, Mandy's in bed and the living room door is open like what's going on? So I'm like, Mandy, wake up, wake up, wake up. And then as she was coming to I ran towards the fire. I turned all the lights on and I have living room doors like one goes this way and one's like perpendicular this way and they all have curtains drawn on them. So I don't know which one's open now because the curtains cover the door.

They're sliding glass doors. So I run to the one I use all the time. I'm like, let me just make sure it's like closed and locked. And so I pull back the curtain, I'm locking the door, the door's shut and I look up and there was a man there. And I'm like, holy shit. And so I just start freaking out. I'm like, what do you want?

What do you want? And then I was expecting it like in my head in that moment I thought he was a burglar and I was like he's gonna run he hears the alarm He sees a human like he's gonna run and he moved towards me and I was like off That's when I knew like this is not a robbery. So I fucking ran. Sorry. I don't know No, no, yeah, I ran I grabbed Mandy. I'm like we got to go. We got to go and she's like what what's going on? I'm like, let's go She luckily had her car keys cuz she was blocking me in. We ran out my garage,

sped away. The cops came, found him still in my house, tackled him, arrested him. Sure enough, he was a fan from South Carolina that had driven all those hours to Tampa, staked out the house, army crawled through the wetlands behind my gated community to get in, and then camped out on my lanai for like five hours

watching us watch TV, watching us go to bed, then waiting. I mean, he planned the whole thing. You can read more about it online. But yeah, essentially it was the craziest thing ever. And that happened like three days before SummerSlam. And turns out he had been messaging me for years prior and he actually messaged me that night. I didn't see any of the message.

They were in like the request folder on Instagram, you know? And the message that night had said, I'm here baby on your pool deck or whatever he said. I'm coming in and I'm gonna kill that girl in there with you or whatever. So he had been telling, had I read my DMs, he had been telling me his play by play. Holy shit.

So just like a crazed soccer fan. Yeah. And they came and found him in your house, like when you called the cops he was just there. So ADT called the cops naturally, thank God. I'm like, boy ADT for the rest of my life. Shout out. Like, I don't know, five minutes maybe?

Like, they were there fast. So we pulled out, and the only reason, by the way, he already had the other living room door open. The only reason he didn't catch me when he, because he ran after me. I had indoor cameras that caught it, and the footage is online somewhere, but when I ran to go get Mandy after I saw him,

he ran in after me, but he had to cross through the curtains. So by the time he crossed through the curtains, he had like a blind spot for a minute. He thought I ran up the staircase, but I ran around the corner behind the staircase to get Mandy and leave. So when the cops came in, he was waiting at the bottom of the staircase,

looking up with a knife in one hand and pepper spray in the other hand, because he thought I was still up there. Oh my god. And what will like you know what his motives were? Well, his motives were weird his whole testimony apparently is on YouTube and I didn't know Until a fan tagged me in it and was like oh this guy's crazy and I was like his whole thing is public I guess that's how I watched some of it. Yes. Oh you did. Yes. Oh, okay It's well, yeah, I didn't know what you knew and it's very uncomfortable watching it. Very weird, right?

Yes, it's supremely creepy. Yes, but he continues to say, do you want to talk about, I'm sorry for being- No, you're fine. I mean, yeah, here goes it. Well, I just, he keeps saying like, if I wanted to hurt her, I could have hurt her. I was sitting there for five hours.

I just wanted to talk. I just wanted to have a conversation. But why does he have these things if he wanted to have a conversation? Well was sitting there for five hours. I just wanted to talk. I just wanted to have a conversation. But why does he have these things if he wanted to have a conversation? Well, none of that is true. Obviously, yeah. Obviously. If you read the messages he sent

for the years he was sending them, and the more recent messages got more and more aggressive, I mean, they're horrible. They're like things he's gonna do to my family members, things he's gonna do to me in front of my family members. Like his intention was very clear in the messages that he was going to kidnap, hold me hostage, make sure I didn't show up to Summer Slam, specifically,

which was so weird, and have his way with me. Was there any reason why you? Did you have an interaction with him? No, no, no. He was in love with me was his story. And he was mad that I was just into women, not into women and men. Oh God.

Because apparently he was into women and men, and I should be too, because I should at least give the other gender a shot. Right, right, right. That was, and I'm just reiterating his messages. Because this is crazy talk obviously, but that was his kind of point of view. I've heard, I've seen wrestlers talk about this,

the fans who show up at the airport, all that stuff. Is this just something you have to deal with? Because it feels like an awful existence to have to deal with people at 5 a.m., people trying to forge these relationships with you. What you went through is just on a whole other level of nightmare. But was this an isolated thing,

or are you constantly on a swivel? I mean, the fans at the airport, yeah, when kids come up to me, I'm all about it. It could be 5 a.m., I could have no makeup on, I look like shit, I'm like, come here, I'll take a picture with you. When it's the grown men that are having you sign 10 of the same photo, because they're gonna go sell them online, that's when I'm like, come on, I'll take a picture with you. When it's the grown men that are having you sign 10 of the same photo,

because they're gonna go sell them online, that's when I'm like, come on, bro. Don't follow me to the airport, don't track my flights. This is obviously a very different scenario when the person's stalking at your house. And I think a couple other of the women have dealt with something kind of similar, but I think this is the craziest.

Yeah, and how do you go back to, did you go back home that night? Oh, God. So I thought I was gonna be Mrs. Brave, and I was like, I'm sleeping in my, I just bought that house, and I was very proud of it. It was like my first house. And I was like, I'm going back to my house that night, I'm gonna sleep in it.

And I had all this adrenaline, and I thought I was gonna be fine. And then like nightfall hit, and I was complete and I'm like I'm not dramatic I'm not sensitive like I was like I'm gonna be it's fine like he's not there he's in jail. I was messed up. We drove back to the house my dad, God bless his heart, he flew right in from Jersey that he got there the next day so it's just me and Mandy. We drove back to the house. We couldn't even open the front door.

I mean, I was like traumatized. It was bad. Security came. WWE sent security. Oh my God, I'm gonna tell all these stories I've never told before. This is crazy. Sorry for putting-

No, it's okay. Cut me off if I'm too long winded. No, no, no. So essentially, WWE sent security to meet me there and help go in the house and get my stuff out, because I needed clothes and stuff to wrestle in. And then they got us a hotel in downtown Tampa. And I was so paranoid.

I thought that the hotel couldn't even be in my name, because what if this guy, the whole concern was he was going to get out on bail? They weren't going to grant a permanent restraining order and they weren't gonna grant, I forget what it's called, but like where you can't make bail at all. They didn't think, the people at Tampa Police Department who were communicating with me were like,

he's gonna get some kind of bail. I don't know if he's gonna be able to make it, but he's gonna get some kind of bail. So I was freaking out. I was like, he's gonna be loose tonight and he's gonna come right back after me. And like the cops had made it clear to me that in his interrogation,

he made it clear he's not done with me. Like when he gets free, he will come back after me. So I was like freaked out. So I put the hotel name under an alias. Me and Mandy are in the hotel room together. We're scared shitless. We dragged the dresser in front of the hotel room door. Okay?

I'm talking to Vince, cause summer slams coming up and obviously he's like checking in on me and he's like, are you okay? He's like, why don't you come to the venue? I wanna say hi to you, I wanna hug you. And I was like, okay. So we drove to the venue, we saw him,

Hunter was there, Stephanie was there. And he was like, what do you need from me? And I was like, I don't know. He's like, well, are you gonna be okay like staying back in your house? And I was like, no, I don't think I can go back there. I looked on my ADT cameras and there was reporters all over my front doorstep.

And I'm like, I can't do this. So I'm like, it's okay, I'll figure it out. And Vince is like, no, what do you wanna do? Do you need a place to stay? And I'm like, well, I don't know. My dad's coming, it's okay, I'll figure it out. And Vince is like, no, what do you wanna do? Do you need a place to stay? And I'm like, well, I don't know. My dad's coming down tomorrow. I'll try to figure something out. He's like, all right, well,

we'll get you a place to stay if you need a place to stay. Again, I don't know if I'm supposed to say anything. I guess I could say whatever I want. It's my story. But Vince rented a house for me to stay in in a different part of Florida for my mom came down and stayed with me Mandy stayed with me a little bit Mandy's mom came and stayed and

Hired 24-7. Well armed security Wow And I mean like these guys had guns on their hips for how long a month. Well a month and That's where I went after there and nobody knows that but I, luckily I got a call from Tampa Police Department a few days later or whatever and he was granted no bail, I don't know what it's called, whatever. He wasn't allowed to bail out so then I was safe but I didn't feel safe and the next,

however many months was a whirlwind. I mean I went and got my right to carry, I was finally moved myself into a high-rise apartment where I thought I'd feel most secure. But I was like- You never stayed in that house again. No. Wow. I rented it out and then ended up selling it

a couple years later. But yeah, I had like a little 380, like a little tiny handgun that I would sleep with, dresser in front of the door, like in the high- apartment, but like, just, you know, just paranoia and... Do you still feel that paranoia? No, thank God.

How did you get rid of it? I don't know, I just went through it. I just went through it, that's when I got my Rottweiler, and then I got her trained to attack. Then I got a black German Shepherd, got her trained to attack, and got every security system, anything you can have, my house has. So I think maybe I found comfort

in taking all those steps, but yeah. And he was sentenced to 15 years. 15 years, yeah. And so what happens after 15 years? I guess he's free. I don't know. Do you allow yourself to think of that? No.

Okay. Back to thinking in my little box, yeah. Sure, no, compartmentalize. Yeah, don't think of the time, but. Did you ever have a chance to hear from him, any sort of, hey, this guy is mentally ill, any sort of closure on it, or? No, so they originally sent him to a mental,

they deemed him unfit to stand trial because of mental illness, but it was kind of like, did he do that on purpose to get out of going to jail? Because then they sent him to a mental institution for a little while, and then they deemed him fit to stand trial, and we were gonna go to trial, and right before we went to trial, he accepted our deal. Oh, really? So we actually didn't have to go. Why didn were gonna go to trial and right before we went to trial, he accepted our deal.

So we actually didn't have to go. Why didn't you go to trial? Well, in hindsight, maybe that was something I would have done differently, just because he was so guilty, but the statistics, my attorney was telling me around how much time he would have gotten had we gone to trial, the deal was seemingly better. Okay, and did you ever come in contact? had we gone to trial, the deal was seemingly better. Okay.

Yeah. And did you ever come in contact? Like, did you ever? We were in the same room, like, the day after the incident when we both had to go and, like, say our sides of the story in front of the judge. What was that like? I was in fight or flight mode.

Like, I don't even remember how I felt. I was so adrenaline up and just in a different planet. Yeah, I don't even know. The good news is though, you don't have any sort of remnants of this in your life. No. That's great. Yeah, I'm grateful. I always say it's best case scenario because a lot of people have stalkers for years

and they leave stuff in their mailbox, they're sneaking around their house and if they're not caught, I mean caught on camera or physically caught by the police, there's not much you can do about it. And that would have been a much more horrifying experience knowing I was being stalked for years and not being able to prosecute the person.

So I feel like I'm lucky in the sense that like my person got caught. They actually followed through, tried to follow through, got caught and now they're in jail. So I feel grateful. By the way, what about Mandy? Did she have trauma from this? Yeah, we both kind of, yeah we went through it together.

I don't think she was as messed up as I was. Okay. It wasn't, you know, maybe because it wasn't her space. I can't speak for her, I don't know. But she, I don't think she was as messed up as I was. She also lived with her mom at the time. I lived alone at the time. So she was able to go back and stay, you know,

with her mom. I was kind of trying to find, like do I move back to Jersey? But I had everything set up in Florida, so I was trying to figure out what to do at the time. It all worked out, I ended up living alone for another year and then finding a roommate and then finding my wife. What a life. What a life, crazy story, I can't believe you took me

down that path. I'm sorry. No, it's good to be fair to me You did open the door ever so slightly. I was debating whether or not I feel comfortable. Yeah But just for the the sake of the audience I wanted them to understand what you have been through because it is very impressive how you've come Through all this and overcome it all and your story is remarkable Like most people I't say all of them

who get into wrestling kind of dream of it, and you kind of just sort of fell into it and had a 10 plus year career, extremely successful with highs and lows, like there's a lot to be proud of. Thank you. It's an incredible, and you're so young, you still, you can have five, six, seven more chapters

in this year. Yeah, I'm excited. And as you know, people come back all the time. I'm sure you're leaving that door open. You know, we always have the people, no, it sounds like you're, okay, maybe not. Maybe you're not coming back. It's not that I'm not leaving the door open, but it's like, it's okay that you guys didn't want me,

but like. Oh, now we're gonna stick it to them. No, it's not sticking it to them, it's just like, it's okay. If they call you in four or five years, hey, it's the Rumble. I don't even know who I'll be in four or five years, hey, it's the Rumble. I don't even know who I'll be in four or five years. Sure, sure.

So we'll see. Okay, fair enough. You'll be in UFC Champion. You never know. What weight class would we get? So I was 115 and 125. Okay, perfect. Yeah.

They didn't even have those when Ronda came in. I know. So you were really ahead of the game. Yeah, well yeah. Who's your favorite fighter of all time? Is it Gina? Gina. Did you ever meet her?

So we DM'd a few times. And I was dying because she answered and I was like, oh my gosh, like 12 year old, 15 year old Daria would have died. Like, but it was when, I don't even know what I DM'd her about, something. And I was like, if you ever wanna come to a WWE show. And she was so cool, she was so sweet.

Was it when she got canceled? Oh, no, I think it was before that. Yeah. Those were bad days. Yeah, it sucks. We still have her, she's right over there. See the Star Wars? Where?

Oh yeah. Yeah. Such a badass. But male fighters, I love the Diaz brothers. And entertaining. Do you watch it now? No, and I'm gonna get back into it, because I do miss it.

Yes, especially if you're hosting the show after Buzz. Yeah. This has been great. Good old days. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. Really appreciate it, congrats on an incredible run. Thank you.

I'm so happy you told me about the MMA chapter when we met that one time, because this was always in the back of my mind, but I was always wondering like, when's a good time to do it, and then I saw that you time, because this was always in the back of my mind, but I was always wondering like, when's a good time to do it, and then I saw that you were, you know. You picked when I got released to do it. But it's easier these days, if I'm being honest.

Yeah, fair. Because don't you have to go through like PR and all this stuff? Yeah. I like going, you know, solo. Direct to the source. It's better. So good luck with everything.

You've got the, you got an acting gig. I have a movie, yeah, coming out soon. Are you able to sit? No. No. Okay. It's cool though. Is there anything other than the podcast that you want to an acting gig? I have a movie, yeah, coming out soon. Are you able to sit? No. No. Okay. Is there anything other than the podcast that you want to tell people about? Yeah, check out the podcast Unwrap, the Patreon account.

We're gonna do exclusive episodes on there. One drops tomorrow. Oh wow. Kind of juicy, so stay tuned for that. Follow me on all my socials, Daria Ray-Baronato. And yeah, there's gonna be some TV and film projects coming soon, but I'm not allowed to talk about them, so.

Good luck. Hands are tied, thank you. Thanks, Ariel. I appreciate it. We will say bye. We'll come back. More to come on the program. Don't go anywhere for now.

My conversation with Alex Volkanovsky from last week, a great one, and I'll be back in a few minutes. Okay, back on the program. That's Alex Volkanovsky. Great chat last Wednesday. He returns to action. It's almost a month away. 314, almost a month away, 313 this weekend.

What about our good friend Daria over here? Daria Baranato, aka Sonia Deville. What a story, huh? What an unbelievable story. She has been through so much. Former MMA fighter, I bet a lot of you didn't know that. She could kick all your asses. And a great WWE star.

And very, very impressive to see someone who is that young have such a positive outlook on what's to come on the next chapter. So I give her a lot of credit. Lots to be excited about, lots to be thankful for, and appreciate her, her, her speaking about some of those trials and tribulations. Uh, what is going on here? Um, like not working.

Frank, how are you? I'm great. Thank you for asking. What a story, huh? It's, uh, everybody's job is to be a good friend. Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch- How was your weekend by the way? It was good. I enjoyed myself over the weekend. Oh, I just sent them another link here because the other one wasn't working. Did you do anything fun this weekend? Did you watch the fight? We filmed the fight feast.

Oh, that was nice. Is that coming out on Thursday's episode of the boys in the back? It is coming out on Thursday's episode of the boys in the back? It is coming out on Thursday's episode of boys in the back. And can we talk about what the cuisine is or is it? Yeah, Brazilian. Brazilian, Brazilian. Oh yeah, of course. You weren't going to do Russian.

No, not this time. Well, I just knew you guys were so... I mean, last time it was such a big Russian flag, tiny Canadian flag. It'll be flying again this weekend. Wasn't sure what the message was that we were... The properly sized Brazilian flag. Oh wow! What are the chances by the way that the only time it's a mini flag, it's kind of... I mean, are you kidding?

In our defense, I actually wish you could have been here when we opened it. We were all in here together. I was like, I, geez. Yeah. It's very disappointing. No, no, listen. You know, this coming of course after the hockey game where Canada beat the US, surely a coincidence. Surely not done. I told Connor he should just add water.

I think it was one of those where you have to add water for it to go. Yeah, that was a classic Frank joke. Hit well, hit well. What do you mean add water to let it grow? Yeah. Let it grow. Okay, so we're doing a Brazilian.

Have we done Brazilian yet? Yeah, we have, but this time we did the steakhouse, the only one you can eat. Ooh, was it, what's that famous one? Fogo? Yeah, yeah. Nah, it wasn't Fogo. Too much of a chain. I'm so happy you said that.

Yeah, we did a high end one here in New York City. Was it one where you do the flip? The green and the red? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Did they do that at Fogo? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I went to a Brazilian steakhouse in Rio de Janeiro, I think with Chris Weidman way back in the day,

UFC 153, and we did the red and the green. I think I lasted like two go arounds. I'm like, yeah, I think I'm good. It's a lot, man, it's a lot. The chicken, yeah, there's pork loin, there's everything. Eight different types of steak. There were a couple rare pieces that would have had your heart pound.

Yeah, thank you. Who went, who went? Me, Frankie, Rick, Rick was there. Wait, this is yesterday. Nah, Saturday. Saturday afternoon, wow. Yeah, with all the boys. Special guest this week.

Yeah, you left your invite unread. Just checking the text here. I didn't see anything. Oh, hey Ariel. No, it was an in-person invite. Oh, you left your invite unread. Just checking the text here. I didn't see anything. Oh, hey Ariel. No, it was an in-person invite. Oh, it was in-person. I can't be bothered. I didn't know if there was another thread.

My kid has a basketball tournament this weekend. That's true. That is actually not true. I told you about the basketball tournament today. You, wait, wait. I was asking for an update on the basketball tournament. I was like, how'd the basketball tournament go this weekend, man? Wow. And that's how we got into it.

Oh, yes, yes, yes. I was like, I know you couldn't make it to the Brazilian steakhouse because of the basketball tournament. Wow, this is well played. I must say this is well played. This guy right here, I'm telling him about a tough time that my son had at the basketball tournament, and now he's turning it against me. Unbelievable. We'll address this later, but we shall move along now to our next guest, our final guest, and I know for a lot of you the one that you have been waiting for. We saved the

best for last. He is El Kukui. He's a proper mixed martial arts legend and it appears as though we may be seeing him back in action in the next couple months or so. Let's not waste any time. Let us say hello to old friend Tony Ferguson. Tony, are you there? What's up, my guy? How you doing, Ariel? I'm doing great. It's great to hear from you. How was life? Oh, man, I gotta tell you one thing. I heard, check this out. Who said this before? Would you shake things up? The cream always rises to the top. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Can you? Yeah, I'm excited. I'm pumped up. I got a fight coming up May 11th in LA for GFL promotions. This is big. I think this is this is breaking news. This is breaking news. This is cool. This is awesome, man. I mean, bro. Okay, you're breaking up there a little bit.

I think perhaps it's cutting in and out, but we'll fight through it. So is this the Dylan Dannis fight that we found out about in just a couple days ago. What's that? Yeah so first I was offered a boxing match against KSI. Now see I was offered a boxing fight against KSI at first. And what happened? Can you hear me? Yeah I can hear you. Okay so I was offered a boxing match against KSI. We were in heavy negotiations which was awesome. I'm ready to take the fucking fight because I mean, in MMA, we don't get to wear shoes in wrestling. I wear shoes. I wear, I move completely different boxing than I do in any other sport. So you asked me about trains with me, uh, ready to fucking go. And then they had me wanting to go to a press conference the week after and I was ready down and I

started thinking, I was like, okay, let me talk to my team. So I started talking to my team, talk to my dad and my father, my dad in my corner now. And I got a couple of other people that are good advisors for me. And we, you know, we're like, hey, you know what? Let's finish up next martial arts. Let's get this get going and then we can worry about boxing later So wasn't like we said no, we haven't said yes But we started focusing on more towards MMA and then obviously case I went I guess found a different opponent because our by then There was the draft that was when this was shit was all going down and then when a draft happened and everything it was Like kind of like okay. Yeah, we're certain that this is where the direction where we want to go. We want to turn some heads

We want to make sure that everything is good and we're tired of fucking losing Like it's dub season all day from here on out, you know when I got when I left the UFC, you know everything Was I hate to say, you know, I wanted to fight another time But obviously, you know, I mean even maybe I guess kind of like okay, I have to say, I wanted to fight another time, but obviously, you know, I mean, even me, I guess kind of like, okay, I have to excuse myself guys, you know, but I don't want to leave on bad terms. And so talking to Dan, talking to Hunter actually, and then coming into terms with it, it was like, we all agreed that, you know, it was the best interest for me to move on.

Like, honestly, it was awesome. I want to go and I want to play different sports. I want to go and I want to experience new things, new trophies, new rings, new fucking championships. I want to keep adding to my resume. And we thought it was necessary to be able to do that for me to be able to start and grow not only as an athlete, but as a man. Now for a long time, Ery, you've been covering the sport and you know, this sport has been

built on the backs of very strong men and women all the way from the fighters, all the way up to the promoter. I have been knee deep in most of the fucking changes that have been made in this sport alongside some of my other classmates, I guess you could call us. You can't be afraid of change. Macho Man said, when you shake things up, the cream always rises to the top. And here we are with GFL. Wasn't too sure about how the transition was going to be but I have to tell you I packed up all my UFC stuff. I put it in bags

and it was the hardest fucking thing I had to do. It was like a couple days where it took time for me to be able to adjust and I put everything in big storage bags and I was ready to move on and and big storage bags. And I was ready to move on. And it's almost like when you, I wouldn't be ultimate fighter with the purpose of, was winning a fat check so I could help my family out, my grandma and everything. And then I ended up getting a contract.

So this whole entire process has never been a disappointment, but what it has been is a learning experience of how, one, I go about my business, two, about how I treat my close circle, and three, about how I want to plan for the future. And right now where we're at in this stage, it's so amazing that there is an opportunity for a lot of other people to be able to display their things and to be able to wear some new

clothes in a new jersey, a new name and a shirt. It's such a great feeling to have and such a relief to be able to move on. And no bad blood anywhere. I think this is a great sport. I mean, I think this is great. I think the direction that it's going one day we will see in the Olympics, but it's going to take us in this class that we have for the GFL for 2025, especially May 11th, come out there and make sure that everybody understands

that we're not fucking around. We're getting paid right. We have teams. This is exactly how I liked it in wrestling. It might be an individual sport, but you're still fighting for a team. You get a pin, you get six points. And this is what's close to that kind of scenario as in a professional, legitimate, collegiate type of atmosphere

where it wants to break into the new atmosphere and I've been talking a lot but I'm excited dude I want to be real with you I wanted to let you speak for as long as you wanted Tony because everything you're saying a lot I didn't say there's a lot I didn't say Ariel but I'm gonna be really was a really crazy emotional experience to take my stuff and to put it in the bag. But it felt like I was closing a different chapter in my life and writing a new book. I have fought for fucking I don't know how many years waiting for a championship and then getting it and then having it taken and then, you know, dangling in front of me

again. Like I'm fucking like what? Like what do you what do you think I am? Like I'm a human being. I'm not trying to bitch and moan. I'm a tough motherfucker now. I'm a human being. But at least if you do this to me, you're not going to feel bad for doing it to the next person. And then there's a lawsuit and there's other things, but that's not what I'm focused on. My focus is always to what?

Keep the sport moving. Didn't I always say that, Ariel? Yes. And I've always kept that to my word. And if I can demonstrate May 11th that a guy that had a 12-fight win streak has an eight and then come back and fucking steal the show and Fucking win every single fight and go out there and look like a completely different fighter That's beyond legendary

It's never been done and I love doing things that never been done Tony the last time we saw you in action and I really appreciate you talking about this. We haven't heard much from you in the form of interviews since the last time we saw you in action, which was back in August. And so if we could kind of start there, if you will, I know we've already started,

but you did take off one glove, which usually we see the two gloves. So bro, look, man, I wasn't ready to fucking retire, but I felt like I had to do something. Dude, I was so fucking sick. I had heat stroke. Like on that Thursday, I went to go. I went and ran every day in that in that area.

Right. And it was hot. And it was it was humid. It wasn't wet. The one day that I go, I didn't pay attention to my shit. Do I lost like fucking like eight, nine pounds? And I fucking felt like I was not like dead but I felt like the weirdest fucking shit. I didn't stop puking and everything. I didn't eat, I didn't rehydrate. And I thought I was nervous and it was just a lot of shit that was going on bro.

But I was really fucked up and I don't really like to say that but going into that I was puking like a motherfucker. And then you had the bullet, dude. What's his fucking name? The guy from Dagestan or the rest of our bullet. Yeah, dude. And he's looking at me. I started strong and then all of a sudden, like I started overheating. And it was like that whole entire trip was just it was just meant to be.

God was like, you know what, dude, we're trying. It's good. I see that you're fucking trying. Let's find a new avenue for you. Let's find a new direction. You're going to have to go through this one. You're going to have to make the trip and you're going to have to prove to me that this is what you want to do. And going through that, it was the most miserable fucking process, but I had my family with me.

And the week before that, we went out there, we had a miscarriage. I'm sorry. And so, like, well, you know, it happens. I'm not the only one. What we do is we don't do it. And what we do is we get back to the fucking board and we make sure we try. So my takedown defense is very strong right now. Ariel. What I was wondering was in that moment, did you think that maybe it was the last

time you were going to compete in MMA? Absolutely not. It might've been the last time I was going to compete for the UFC. When it goes into an athlete like me, I'm not, look, I've never really been cut from a team ever. After like say that I've always worked my ass off and I've always found a way even if I wasn't able to play. I had broken my arm one time my sophomore year and I switched schools.

I had to sit out for six months or I sit out for a whole fucking semester because of the step, the thing when you switch schools. And I sat out and I suited up every fucking game. I suited up every fucking practice. And I showed up even knowing that I wasn't gonna be able to play. I'm a fucking gamer. You will never find another fucking

professional athlete like me. You might, but we're a few and wholehearted, man. You know, I had a chance to talk to coach Teddy Atlas and you know, he said some pretty fucking cool things to me that I needed to fucking hear because When you have an athlete like me you have to have somebody or something just get your fucking attention I've had almost like a domino effect of certain people that have gotten my shit together for me because you know what? I got so tired of my own shit. I almost had to start fucking my own self up I start beating my own self up of taking these fights and and wanting to start something new. And you should never want to do that, Ariel.

You should love yourself enough to fucking to be able to go all the way through and not let anybody's words or actions, no matter what happens, deter you and to be able to want to feel pain like that. What do you mean? What do you mean when you say that it hurts yourself? Bro, I'm gonna be real. It was the most miserable experience after I won that belt and then they took it away from me and I went back and I fought that motherfucker on that fight card. I try to keep it lighthearted because I feel that this has made me such a stronger, better man,

no matter what kind of adversity I've been through. But I have got people, my fans, that are sending me memes about when Khabib and Connor were looking at me in the background scared shitless of when I was fighting, uh, Pettis all bloody up because they knew what I went through and what they had done. So the UFC too, it's going to take a lot more for me to be able to stop and want to stop competing like this. It's not like going on a dead bed and this and that. No motherfucker. That means that I want to be completely satisfied of me actually giving really good camps, a really good effort into something that I feel that I deserve, like a new fucking belt, a

title. Or you tell me I'm in the Hall of Fame or I did enough for this or I did enough for that or I don't need that. I want to keep going. People might need that as certification where it's like, okay, yeah, you're retired From the UFC, and then you're gonna go fight over here. Don't you get fucking retire? You change leagues Everybody wants a sad stop story and I'm not about that. I'm about fucking winning I'm about to go out there and get this fucking season dub season, bro

The team depending on me my family more fucking faith and everything. It's all lining up. The planet's just aligned up the other day. It's amazing how this stuff works. You know, any given Sunday, anything can fucking happen, Ariel. I love it. May 11th. In a way, I wonder if this is all a blessing because now, like you said, you change teams, athletes go through this, you change leagues, whatever,

and you don't have to worry about the UFC past, you don't have to worry about the streak. Now it's just fresh. You can start like your- It's amazing. Right? Did you feel that way? Did you feel like it's a fresh start?

Look it man, when you lose your baseball glove, it takes a second to adjust to a new one, cause you don't wanna say bye. But you know what you're gonna have to fucking play the game. Can you play without a glove? No? No. You better go fucking get a new one and you get one quick and you break that bitch in and you get comfortable playing in It we got a six sided cage that we're gonna be fighting in May 11th in LA

Not can't release too many details because there's a lot of fucking hype behind this but if I have to lead the way with knocking This dude out Finishing this guy or whatever the fuck I have to do to get my maximum of points from my team You bet your ass they can count on me to do that shit no matter who the fuck they put in front of me on May 11th. There was one question that I think a lot of the fans had because he is scheduled Dylan Danis's to box KSI in this fight that you were talking about on March 29th. Not my problem, hey look, not my problem. I was about to take that fucking fight too so every fucking man is a grown ass man.

You're going to have to own up to your decisions. You're going to figure it out. If he doesn't make it, I have a backup, right? But what is my, what do I say? Look, when I went into wrestling, when I started little, I started watching people go up to the wrestling charts, worrying and talking about who they're going to wrestle next. And I'm like, well, I don't know that. But you learn fear from other motherfuckers.

I'm not about that. I'm not worried about who I'm going to fight because I'm going to be the best. Whatever the fuck prime is, I'm not prime. Optimus Prime, Tony fucking Ferguson, I'm fucking me. I'm working on beyond legendary status of what I already fucking have. People are going to have to beat me on the fucking map for that. And I don't see that happening, dude. I do not see that happening any fucking time soon, especially this year or next year. I've lost enough

I'm done. I'm over it. I got a brand new fucking gfl hoodie I'm about to have my jersey with my name on it. Our mascots are about to be released You just wait till I get my fucking gloves, Ariel I sat one down because you know what I wanted the fans to see you know What a little bit of action from me because that bullshit fucking thing that they got out there was nothing. It was nothing.

They deserved better than that and they're gonna get it more on May 11th on GFL. So you motherfuckers better tune in. By the way, how do you feel about Dylan? He's a polarizing figure in the sport. How do you feel about him? I'm a polarizing fucking figure in this sport, bro. You're beloved. Tony, there's a difference. You're beloved in the sport. How do you feel about him? I'm not polarizing a fucking figure in this sport, bro. You're beloved. No, Tony, there's a difference.

You're beloved in the sport. You are someone that the fans feel very strongly about. A lot of the fans don't have that love for him, let's be honest. You have put blood, sweat and tears into the sport. People talk about you, they react, they feel a certain way. You can't say the same about him. With all due respect, Jiu Jitsu is one thing, not an MMA fighting. Let's keep it real. The reality is, look, if people change, look at John Cena, right? Supposedly he became the heel?

Yes, he did. Yes, yes. Look, I'm not about the show area. And when it became entertainment, and I had to realize that in order to look for financials, for my future, for my family, and I knew that it was entertainment and all this other shit when I order to look for financials to for my future for my family and I knew that was entertainment and all this other shit when I came into it. It was different. This is not entertainment for me. I'm not in it for entertainment. I have a picture in my head of new goals of crushing this season. You have no idea, bro. I went, I dropped from

2011 when I got my hair did by Bosley. I got it probably about six months ago I just got my hair line My boss had sponsored amazing fucking guys. Dr Deutsch and the whole entire staff in la are just beyond amazing you guys hit me up if you need to get a consultation It made me feel fucking absolutely comfortable and you're talking about something about confidence and not just hair and just anything You're talking about being around people that are confident That believe in you that fight for you that want to be a part of your team. You know, you had Dr. Eric Thomas, he had some, go where you're celebrated, not where

you're tolerated. And for a long time, I felt like I was just being tolerated and just doing that. Yeah, I don't mind being hated or loved or whatever. That's not my problem. My biggest issue is how my performance is. And for a long time, my performance has been piss poor shit. So I'm not worried about what people are gonna say or do. Maybe he's turned to leaf, maybe he's gonna figure his,

it's not my prerogative, bro. My point is to make sure that I boost my team as much as I possibly can, like I'm boosting my son's teams while I'm coaching with them. And his back, dude, the kid's doing like almost three sports right now, baseball, football, and basketball, and he's finishing up one and one. And I'm keeping them busy, why?

Because that's what you do. You don't sit around moping, scrolling, looking for other fucking people, try to compare yourself to anybody else. I'm not doing that, I'm over it. I've never have done that before, because I realized I was at the cream at the fucking top When things get shaken up aerial and that's what people like they like a fucking fighter and damn it

I'm a fucking legendary fighter. I'm working my ass out towards something else and What are they what is saw kung fu Panda go to spirit warrior, right? Yeah, man, that's it. That's it. They don't I'm a dragon warrior. I'm making my ways up, you know I got a different stuff every time I walk in that fucking cage Just out of curiosity. Why didn't the KSI boxing match happen? That was on me and it wasn't saying no it was about negotiations Okay, and they were coming up and it was really good, bro I'm gonna be real when it came to it and the company that whoever's working with them and their managerial side is really professional. And I'm really excited

and happy that everybody wants to one compete to see me perform and three see me happy. Like that's the biggest part. I was miserable for a long time and faking that shit, Ariel. Just put passing fucking fake smiles and doing this because it was just to show up it was hard because I am not faking it it's like you think that's the reality but damn it dude are you really happy and what else is suffering because of that and if you see that trickle effect then you got to go to the root and you got it either one feed it nutrients or two you got to take the fucking weed out and put something else better there Why do you think you were unhappy oh

Why do you think Ariel let me ask you? Well, you know obviously it's a personal question the the answer that in your opinion in your in your opinion Out of what you have seen in the media and why people like me. Mm-hmm What do you think and just in opinion, in 30 seconds or less. Well, okay, so there's a long answer, right? Everything that's happened to you since the incident at the Fox Studios is the long answer. And even before that, and listen, and Ariel, and even before that,

I had hurt my knee pulling rubber guard with Eddie Bravo a couple weeks before, and I went through camp with the intentions of fucking going through there, being hurt and fucking showing up. And it was only until a little smaller incident and the fucker ripped off the bone. I have X-rays and CT scans trying to fucking make sure that I could make it there until it was completely tore the fuck off. Ariel, you got to realize, man, I'm tough as fucking shit,

but I'm not fucking stupid. And so I guess then the short-term answer is just, you weren't happy with the way things were going in your athletic career. Well, look, there's a movie called Luck. Good luck goes to good luck, and bad luck always goes to bad luck. When bad shit happens,

it's not like look forward towards all the bad shit, but sometimes domino effect, right? Sometimes shit just kind of rolls in, trickles in, maybe triple trifecta, whatever you want to call it. God has worked with me in certain fucking ways that I cannot explain. I'm working on my cursing too. There's a lot of codes that I used to have as I was growing into this that I have lost because of the friction effect that I have had in this industry.

Not just bad has been good and that's what you have to have. You have to have the mixture of good and bad to be able to understand and have experience. This sport has made such an incredible journey for me to explain whatever I could possibly explain in my own words to people. If they want to listen, they can listen. They don't have to listen. They don't have to watch me fight. You guys don't have to watch this show, but you choose to. And the fact that you choose to makes me want to choose to go and keep competing

and do this the right way. And I'm very fortunate to be able to have a promoter and a promotion and teammates and classmates that were all so fucking Billy bad ass that we're going to turn this shit in. I mean, I don't see too many people like being called washed up. You know, you're going to get so washed up that you're going to fucking turn out sparkly clean and then everything is going to fucking just be not what everybody expected. I guarantee you, I feel what everybody else is feeling

when everybody wants to hate on this leak because they don't know. One to they're afraid. And three, it's exciting. When all three of these should be not something that's going to take you to the negative, when it should be boosting you up towards happiness, people don't see that people are getting mad. They're like, this is not what we asked for. This is not bitch. You're fucking lucky. You have a platform to be able to talk about. Be thankful. I stopped following people. I stopped doing this and stop allowing people

to be in communication with me. And I'm going to start cutting people off big time because I've allowed myself to become too spread thin with people rather than focusing my energy on where it needs to be, which is faith, family and friends. Ariel. How many times do you expect to fight this season? Like have they guaranteed you X amount? Look at the way I see it, the way I see it, right? A national tournament in college, in high school, it's five to win it you got three

regular season games and then you got to play off I'm pinning everybody like I wasn't the ultimate fighter I'm not going into this shit look at I wanted to be a four-time national champion I won national my first time at Grand Valley the second time I heard her 184 pounder I bumped up two weight classes Ariel and I took fourth that year I was weighing in at 175 and I was wrestling 184 pounder. I bumped up two weight classes Ariel and I took fourth that year. I was weighing in at 175 and I was wrestling 184 pounds. I wrestled John Jones lost by one point at the Cliff King National Duel and he remembers that Like I'm a gamer bro, but when it comes to my weight, I wrestled at 165 and we're competing at 165 This is where I belong

Not 155. I'm 41 years old and I'm faster as fuck I'm quicker my more conditioned a lot of these dudes Where I'm at is I'm not trying to keep up with them. This is a rat race, but I'm no rat I'm a turtle ninja turtle. Yes this time you guess which one is my fucking favorite I'm feeling a little wrath, bro Love it. I love it. We missed you Tony. We really did miss you guys It's it's great to hear you so excited and and positive It's it's really it's really something that I think a lot of fans will will feel very heartwarming

And because like I said, they feel so strongly about you and instead I'm sure you see people saying things like as you alluded to earlier But I'm sure you also see a lot of support and love right? I'm sure you see people saying things like, as you alluded to earlier, but I'm sure you also see a lot of support and love, right? I'm sure you have your- Oh, dude, I always do. I really never see negative. And I think and I hope, and I know, just not hope and thinking,

no, I know for a fact. Look, if people go through shit every fucking day, and if somebody can relate to somebody and find a new way, that's awesome. And I'm glad that people can relate to everything that I've been doing and if they can, they look and feel inspired to it to make their life better.

I'll do it, man. I have to say one thing. One day I would like to meet Sylvester Stallone. I wanna say thank you to that dude because I don't really say too many people that when I was younger who I watched, but he was one of the dudes that was on Rocky that had a really big effect on how I used to carry myself.

And you can relay that message, say thanks, Rock. Amazing. I'll just ask you a couple more and then we'll let you go. What about training for this fight? Where would that be done? Oh man. Well, so I'm in Southern California. So previously I had reached out to Faraz Zahabi

and I said to myself, I was like, well who was your target at 170 pounds? That was GSP. And I had met GSP and he's a fucking tremendous dude, man, absolutely just fucking awesome. He is awesome, so humble. And I reached out to Faraz and asked him, so I had the invite to go out there, I I had the I have the invite to go out there.

I still do. I have the invite for a couple of other places and what I'm doing right now is I'm building Ariel. I have some time. It's not like I have to rush. I don't have to make myself fight. I have a date. I have an opponent and I'm building very smart right now.

I've reached out to my coach from Def Clutch, Marty Morgan. Wow. I have my, I have my dad in my corner. My dad was my in my corner for all my sports all the way until after high school and college. And for the longest time, I haven't been there. He's just we've just all been really busy. And I've been I reached back out to him and he's helping me out.

And it's fucking awesome, dude. I'm in such a great fucking place right now, Ariel. It's going to be scary for this guy. And I don't wanna tell you too much what I have going on because I'm gonna be real. It's gonna be great. And I'm gonna hire a film crew to be able to show you guys the steps of what I go through in order to get this done

from wrapping my hands all the way to ice back to the preparations in the back. I think that you guys might wanna see this and I think this is the time I should document it. Yes What about David Goggins? Are you still in contact with her? I just talked to him the other day You know Sometimes we just send each other messages or we make a phone call to a quick couple minutes or whatever the fuck we got to Do to either talk to each other or straighten another kid out between us, you know It's like hey, this kid wants

to talk to you real quick and boom, boom, boom. Yeah, dude, coach chief, I got you. And likewise, I, it's, it's a different relationship. And I have to be able to say that when you surround yourself around like-minded people, you get things done. And chief is really cool for me. And that door is always open on this side. And likewise on that side.

That's, That's awesome. And ultimately, what drew you, I mean, GFL, the season, it seems like this is a perfect fit for you because you've always sort of talked about these things. But perhaps if GFL wasn't around, they're brand new, right? Where do you think you would have gone in this post UFC chapter of your life? Oh, I would have said, give me my fucking shoes.

I would have said, you guys want to see me really move? Look, I'm a wrestler at heart, but I've been wrestling for so long, I got so burnt out because everybody wanted to do it. When somebody wants to do something, I'm good. I get burnt out, I move on. I'm like, I'll come back later. You know, I bought Adam Machine.

I actually bought the 50 year old wrestling company. You can go to wrestlingadam.com. It's wrestling Adam. I bought it from Dan Gables His name is Rick catcher Granville He's a he was Dan Gable's roommate in college in Iowa and just an amazing dude And I bought this company and I make these takedown machines I make them custom and I have another couple people that help me my father my dad and a couple people But I don't have to sell these these are mine

These are I own to the military and to other people to teach people how to get Russell better. If you don't have a wrestling partner that doesn't know how to do their shit, you come and talk to me. You know, I'm dealing with business with you of them and a couple of other people. Big businesses. I've inherited this business because I bought it out of my whole hard earned money for my retirement.

My background is wrestling. But when I wrestled, I wore wrestling shoes. That's the difference. You move differently with shoes on. I grew up playing sports like baseball, wrestling and football with cleats where your feet get to dig into the ground. If I got shoes on there, you got a whole new fucking athlete. And these boxes are in trouble.

Like, that's it, man. I'm a different athlete when it comes to this box. I don't worry about takedowns or fucking submissions or nothing. All I gotta worry about is putting hands on you And I got a hit and not get hit. That's fucking go So so with your deal with GFL, can you still box is is this still a possibility? Like I can do anything I want I can go and try for fucking spring season baseball if I wanted to for the kakuis the 66 Is out there. Yeah fuckingland Empire. You know what I mean? I could go and do whatever the fuck I want. And that is the freedom that I've always wanted as an athlete. But as a college

student, you can't go and be a doctor unless you go what? Once you look at you graduate high school, you go to college, right? You get your degree, then you go to graduate school, right? And then after you have to what do what your residency? And then you can go and look at after all this debt and everything, right. That's how I feel. I have gotten my doctorate in so many fucking types of sports psychology. You talk about sports therapy for my knee. I can't wait to go back to school.

It's going to be easy for me to go and get these degrees. And I say degrees. Well, not just one. It's going to be easy because I had the experience before I didn't have the experience to do this. Now I have the experience between MMA sports and how I want to go in the direction of how I would like my kids to be able to brought up, which is school first, faith, family, friends in the school. You know, like there's, there's, there's pecking orders of things in the structure.

If you don't have structure and you don't know where everything is going, i.e. rankings, you know, it's like even Dana got mad with John Jones and Maka, like the right whatever rankings and everything, at least there is something like that. And with the sport that keeps growing, like I said, it's in the right direction. So we're lucky that we have people that have the balls to be able to step up to the plate and provide more job security for athletes like myself. Do you do you leave, you you leave with peace in your heart? Do you close the UFC chapter doing what you do?

No, dude. Absolutely not. Never, never, never. For me, it was about having to move on myself. Because how can you grow if you don't let go of a car? How can you grow, right? Like if your first car that you bought, do you still have it?

No, I do not. No, you don't. You gotta grow, right? Yeah. Right. And so you see grow, right? Like if your first car that you bought, do you still have it? No, I do not. No, you don't. You had to grow, right? Yeah. Right. And so you see it, right? You might see your car later on, but kind of like, damn, yeah, that's great memories and stuff. And that's what experience that you build off of. I was in the Ultimate Fighter. I learned so much in that house of my diet.

I didn't take care of myself. I know how to rest because I've played sports my whole life, but then you're talking about supplements. Pay Harveston was the one that helped me talk to me about supplements. You had Charlie Rader, he was always worried about his diet. So that dude was always eating spinach and you had Chuck who was always trying to help Charlie

with his diet. So it was a team effort, but you got to learn so much. It was like freshman year in college, man. And then you win and then you're like, okay, now it's like, okay, now I'm in, oh shit. Okay. Now this is like the UFC. Now you're learning it. And as you go on through the years in college, you kind of know the campus, you know, the teachers, you know, the professors, dude, I got my masters from fucking UFC. Now I'm in the residency. I'm in the residency at GFL now.

I get to use my experience, my negotiations that I learned over the years, how to handle myself, how to work entertainment, how to pull in people, right? Because you just don't want to see a lame ass go in there and fucking not say nothing. No, but you got to say the right things. You're talking about the team. This is my team. I've been waiting for a team for a long time. And now with this opportunity to be able to show you guys how a real athlete like myself, not like anybody else, like myself, goes about

these things in daily life. And I think that you guys are gonna be very happy and very interested in the way that everybody is going about the seriousness in this organization because I don't think anybody's taking it seriously. Thus forcing our class, right? Because how old are you, Ariel? I'm 42. You just turned 41, right? Yeah. And remember when we were freshmen, right? I was a freshman, you were a sophomore. So this class between 2002 and what? That was the graduating class in like maybe 1999. there that was a different class that was a different four years there was a different from sports talking about people experiencing things from Nintendo PlayStation fucking

memory cards discs VH all that shit we went through all that we understand change better than fucking anybody and if anybody's gonna be able to do it fucking bust up a Nintendo game card. We know how to do that shit, too. We get these games started and we know how to fucking do it because we live through it. And if we're going to do it, this is the generation to do it. So May 11th, Los Angeles, Dylan, Dennis. Victim number one.

New chapter. Clear minded. Clear minded chapter, clear minded. Clear minded, absolutely clear minded. I already have people coming through this week to get some great work in. I'm excited. It's looking good, Ariel. I love it. It's not often we get to speak to you. I just want to give you the platform. Is there anything else that we didn't touch on that you'd like to share? Anything you wanna to say to the people listening, people watching right now? I wish we could see the new hair. It sounds fantastic.

I know, it's a special thing. I know I kind of boasted a little bit on there, but I'm gonna be real. You guys just tune in. I have a couple of people that I've worked with that have proven and that can handle the content building of what I want to do so we're gonna release some cool stuff for you guys and I think it's about time and let's make this let's make this a great year man 2025 let's

make this a year of growth let's make this a year of building of building new relationships and and fucking having each other's back and I'm all for team and people have my bag. It's on my team I got their back on her 50% you can count on me. Amen. Thank you, Tony. Great to hear from you Appreciate you calling in congrats on this this new opportunity this new chapter and good luck on May 11th We shall be watching no doubt. Oh Yeah Yeah, snap into a slim Jim

Get it. Thank you, Tony. All the best to you. And hopefully talk to you again in the not too distant future. There he is, the great El Kukui, one of a kind. They don't make him like him. They don't make many like him. He is one of one.

He is a true OG of the game and he is returning to action on the 11th of May. I sort of alluded to that earlier, but that's the Danis fight. And I think they're going to front load that one. I think a lot of the big names, you know, the the Weidman Rockholds, the Faber-Boroughs, that's the plan, at least for now, on the west coast of the United States. So stay tuned for that. But especially in those first couple of answers, I felt like he was very clear minded, speaking from the heart, speaking about the previous chapter,

which seems to be a bit of a theme on today's program, and seems to be excited about what's to come. Now, obviously obviously the elephant in the room is Danis fighting KSI on the 29th of March in 26 days from now. If that all goes okay, and we know this, if this happens in California, that's a very, you know, that's a very good commission, in my opinion, the gold standard when it comes to athletic commissions. They will do their due diligence no doubt about it to make sure

that he is healthy enough to compete that's the one part that you're like don't love when two fights are announced you know we saw it in boxing recently it often you know just goes a little bit sideways but that's a big time one that's a big time one. That's a big time one on the 11th of May. And then of course, March 29th. And like I said, uh, there's a press conference tomorrow in England for that KSI fight. And, uh, I suspect there will be, there will be fireworks.

Guys, what'd you think of Tony? The best. Champshit only baby. The man. You love him, right Frank? My favorite. did he say champ shit only favorite no but he um he presented as champ in the room also by the way I didn't know that he was your favorite Frank I never heard yeah I was about to say that I did you guys, if you listen to me every now and then, you might learn something. Well, I look forward to that.

I wanted to hit on a couple things, gents, before we go. It's been a very busy day. Tomorrow on the program, by the way, we're gonna be joined by Valentina Shevchenko, the reigning defending UFC Women's Flyway Champion. Our good friend Mark Rumundi returns. Yes, and Falcons writer. Yeah, we're gonna dive deep into the Falcons plans.

Yeah, you know, what's going on? You know, is it Vic time? Is it Jamal Anderson time? What are we doing? You know what I mean? What's the draft situation looking like? I don't know, we're about to find out. We're gonna find out tomorrow, I can't wait.

In reality, what we're gonna talk to him about, he has a book coming out about the NWO called Say Hello to find out tomorrow. I can't wait in reality what we're gonna talk to him about He has a book coming out about the the NWO called Say hello to the bad guys it comes out in June But there's no one better than him to talk about everything that transpired this past weekend in Toronto plus a little MMA He has moved on from MMA, but the man the man still knows he still watches also Good friend of the program Oban Elliott will stop by to talk about his current situation. So stay tuned for that. Afterwards, by the way, I will be heading over to Times Square and we'll be doing a

special edition of the Ariel Inade program from Times Square following the press conference for the May 2nd event here in New York City, which we found out on Friday, is going to include Tiafuma Lopez versus Arnold Barbosa, which is just madness, in addition to Roly Romero versus Ryan Garcia and Jose Ramirez against Devin Haney. I mean, that is just an incredible three pack of fights being called by Jim Lampley in the middle of Times Square. Are you kidding me? What a time. And then Thursday, here in New York City, Canel Alvarez and William Scull are going to be here for another press conference.

So all of a sudden, New York City back to being the epicenter of the combat sports, maybe just the boxing world, at least for now. A couple of things. We talked about Manel Cap. We talked about his win. I did want to mention at one point in that broadcast, and I talked about you know

while watching the boxing from Belfast and then switching over to Apex and just feeling like there's just nothing there and then you switch over to Barclays Center or you switch over to Elimination Chamber and the crowd adds so much. It's why pandemic sports viewing was a little depressing. There was a moment there where I'm like, why does this feel different? Why am I enjoying this? It feels like just a little bit more and the conclusion that I came to was it was one of the rare times that the UFC was using a two-man booth. It wasn't a three-man booth. Yes, there they are, John Anik and the great Dominic Cruz. This is when they came back after the video for Dominic Cruz, which was really, John Anik and the great Dominic Cruz. This is when they came back after the video

for Dominic Cruz, which was really, really well done. I thought it was going to be announced that, you know, he was going into the Hall of Fame this year, but it's inevitable, it's the easiest of calls. But there was something about the two-man booth that really, I don't know, it floats. Sometimes I feel like there's a little bit of a tug and pull. There's a jockeying for airtime. There's a lot of talking.

And sometimes it just feels like it doesn't flow as well as a two-man booth. Traditionally, you know, your usual NFL game, your usual NBA game, unless it's like a big one on, you know, ABC finals, baseball as well. Sometimes in baseball you get a one-man booth. It's usually a two-man booth. Three-man booths aren't as common. In boxing they're a lot more common. In MMA these days, more common. Certainly in the UFC. But I like the two-man booth and I kind of want to see them use it a little bit more. I don't think you need that much and so Anik knows his role, Cruz knows his role, John Gooden, Fitzgerald, I mean the UFC has really an amazing cast of characters when it comes to

broadcasters and color commentators, analysts, they don't need to add a lot more although there are several in the pipeline who would do great. You know, I think of the Allen Joe bands, I think of the Anthony Smiths. Those are just a couple that come to mine, but I don't know. I just wanted to say, I like the two man booth. No one's asking my opinion on this, but, uh, it's something that I, that I would like to see more of.

Did you guys notice that as well? It just felt like it flowed just a little bit more. Anyone notice that? Yeah, let's crowd it. Yeah, let's crowd it. What's going on? That's pretty much what he said. Did you guys enjoy that? Retweet. You guys. Yeah, it was crowded. What's going on?

That's pretty much what I said. Did you guys enjoy that? Retweet. You guys didn't watch it. Let's be honest. I didn't watch it. I was double-screening it. I had Apex and Elimination Chamber on.

Yeah. You've come a long way. Long way. I did not have Elimination Chamber on, but of course I had U of C on. I was the only one that had Elimination Chamber on? Yeah, pretty much. I caught it on day. I mean, instantaneously.

The tables have really turned. Yeah, the times have changed. Everyone was watching it and reacting to it afterwards, but there was a lot going on. There was a lot going on. Okay, so two-man booth, we like. Dominic Cruz, the man. Times Square card.

By the way, that's going to be a crazy weekend in, in, uh, in boxing, May 2nd here in New York, then the May 3rd Canelo fight. And then there's some talk of Naoya in a way on the Sunday in, uh, in the States, potentially in Japan, uh, no, in the States. And oh, by the way, what about now we find out about this May 11th. So we're talking 315 on the 10th, May 11th, this May 11th, so we're talking 315 on the 10th, May 11th, this GFL card that Tony mentioned, and then a potential Monday card, May 12th. Watch party, guys? What are we doing? Wow. Should we just go live for a week? In a ways on the Monday, you said? No. The second GFL card. You remember, Darren Owen told us that it was a Sunday-Monday thing.

Okay. That's a big weekend. That is a big weekend. Watch weekend, 72's a big weekend. That is a big weekend. Watch weekend 72 hour live stream. Yeah. You said it. I'm in. All right. I'm really curious to see what this Times Square card

is gonna look like. Oh my God, yeah. And also what if it rains? God forbid. Throw up a card. I don't know. I feel like they're gonna have like a cover over where Yeah, for sure.

Where the rain itself. April showers may flowers. By the way, IDIC brought up a good thing. If they position it as you have to be a ring subscriber to get in, kind of brilliant. Right? Yeah, I'm down. I've been interested to subscribe.

Is there a physical magazine? Is that back? I believe so. Oh, I'm in for that. Love a good physical magazine. Yeah. Put a copy on every seat? Doesn't happen enough. Tom Aspinall put out a video updating us on his situation it's on his YouTube channel he's he's he's on the train and he essentially says you know it's not on me if you're wondering what's going on with the John Jones fight it's not on me

and he also says by the way it's not on the UFC. Now when you say what's going on with the John Jones fight, it's not on me. And he also says, by the way, it's not on the UFC. Now, when you say it's not on the UFC, obviously, this is what it is down to. A deal needs to be made. And from my understanding, they're not there as far as the economics of the deal. I believe, for all intents and purposes, Aspenol is there, but it's John. John is asking for a certain number and they're not quite there. Are they getting closer?

Yes. Do they actually get there? I don't know. That remains to be seen. No one really knows, right? Unless someone comes down or goes dramatically up. But he is right. He is right.

It is a fight that the UFC wants. It's a fight that they are actively trying to make. At some point though, do they, you know, do they call an audible? If they realize that they are never going to meet the number that he is throwing out there, do they call this audible? Now in his video he said, look, there's three people in the top 10 that I have not fought. John Jones, Jelton Almeyda, Cyril Gan. Those are the three. And I am obviously very happy to fight John Jones, and I'm happy to fight Almeyda, and I'm happy to fight Cyril Gan.

He says this, but he says the stipulation is, if I fight Almeyda and Gan, it has to be for the Undisputed title. And I don't think that that's a crazy stipulation. He has earned that right he won the interim title November of 23 and then he defended it in July of 24 it would be absurd to make him defend that title again now's the time to make that fight if the fight can't happen you have to move on now I'm not saying by the way to pull the plug on the fight you've got plenty of. You're pretty much booked up until June at this point and then you you've got you know you have the MSG show in um in November and there's big dates coming up.

Do they even try to come back to New York? Who knows? The point is there's plenty of time. I hate to say it but you almost have to give yourself all of 25, which is a shame because Aspinall is so good, so young, in his prime. His last fight was in July. We are approaching, approaching a year since his last fight. That fight lasted what, a minute and change against Curtis Blades, and the guy should be active.

The guy should be fighting. It's a a shame but the fight is too big one John Jones fight is equal to three or four fights so they are actively trying they're just not there yet they're just not there yet so let's see Alex Perra put out a bet to Magomed Ankhalayev and his manager Ali Abdelaziz. It's been a while since I had to say that name. Ali Abdelaziz and offered them $200,000. That's the bet, right? For charity. $200,000 go to charity if he loses, he pays the charity.

Is that it? Yes, the loser pays. Now we have a response. Oh, they've responded yes Magomed has responded supposedly so supposedly Magomed has responded yes better to say basically Muslims do not participate in gambling betting and things of that sort and he already donates to charity as part of his religious practice okay there's a way to do it they can do it offline

that's what he said basically. How's that being received? I don't know. I think it's fine. Like our people. I mean, he said let's circle back offline. Yeah, like. Let's set up a call. It seems respectful. All right. All right. Well, there you go. They're efforting. Yeah, they're efforting. Okay. All right. I didn't. I didn't know that. That was on the line, that's enough. The bet didn't do anything for me. Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Bo Nickel teased a May 3rd return. I believe that's the highly anticipated UFC Des Moines card, yes? Yeah. Yeah.

Which is getting better by the day. Shaving off out there in Des Moines. Cheeto on there. Bo Nickel in Des Moines. I was thinking Bo Nickel in Miami, but I guess not. I feel like he plays well to the Des Moines audience. I cannot wait for GC to be their front row with the boom boom hook jammer.

It's just. Kale Sanderson, Iowa guy. Yeah, that's right, Penn State. Yeah, I think he's gonna play well. They know what they're doing, building this Des Moines card. Who's he fighting? I saw some. I saw rumors of RDR.

Oh yeah, I should probably ask him. Yeah, shoot him a text. What's the guest common tickets, man? I've been looking at flights out to Des Moines. Yeah, what do they look like? Cheap, affordable. Wow, Forest Tide 1-1, huh? No updates, no breaking news?

I was locked in on Tony. Thank you. FA Cup round five? Yeah, shout out. I know they were down at one point, they came back. Came all the way back to tie it. Yeah. All right so we've cleared that up 313 around the corner. I think there was just only one item that I wanted to get to and this was an item we were talking about boxing obviously one of the big stories of the the past weekend.. Pete C, Ben and Chuck really did a great job

of digging their teeth into this, but you may have missed it. This was after our show on Wednesday. Everything seems to happen, by the way. Didn't I not call it that something would happen after our show on Wednesday? Have we, is it just a coincidence? It's probably just a coincidence, right?

It's not a real thing. No, no. I don't think it's a coincidence. They're helping. They know boys in the back is coming. It's great. And by the way, they think they're screwing, but I like it.

You guys have something completely fresh to talk about and then PT, et cetera. Anyway, Mark Shapiro, the president and COO of TKO, talked about what appears to be eventual entry into the world of boxing with TKO, which is of course the parent company of the UFC WWE. to be eventual entry into the world of boxing with TKO, which is of course the parent company of the UFC WWE, the bull riding and this on location sort of like event company.

He said something that was very interesting and then he said something that was super interesting. Also, in addition to this, he talked about moving some of the Apex cards to international dates. So that's good news if you're one of those people who is sick of the Apex cards. But here's what I wanted to play for you all. And I want you to focus especially on the back end of the statement. Here's Mark Shapiro talking about the potential. And by the way, worth noting noting this isn't a press conference

this is an investor call and so he speaks in a certain way because he's trying to tell the investors that like there's no risk involved that they're not the ones paying that this is all going to be funded by Saudi Arabia there's a certain way that you speak on an investor call there's a certain way that you speak to the media in any event this is courtesy of our good friend Jedi Goodman from last Wednesday take Take a listen. Make no mistake about it. Our core business is UFC and WWE. And we're focused on the integration

of IMG on location and PBR, both as standalone businesses, but also to help power and fuel our two battleships that are UFC and WWE. When it comes to other opportunities, we intend to be selective, disciplined, thoughtful, but we will consider other opportunities to create long term value for our shareholders as they present themselves, but they must be value accretive. When you look at boxing, it checks the boxes of all that. It's thoughtful, it's the right strategic place for us to be. We have experts in Nikon and Dana White among others that can drive that business. We can be selective in terms of how we participate and whatever we do we will not take risk and it will definitely be value-accretive. we will not take risk and it will definitely be value accretive. I would tell you that there's still strong interest in the sport

around the globe and particularly the U.S. And there's a desire to have it back in the forefront of the American sports ecosystem. It's just been broken for too long, it's been fragmented, it's been poorly managed and we think we can do a lot with it. What I would tell you in terms of our specific opportunities which we've spoken to, everybody knows we're in talks with the Saudis, but to give you a little more color, I will tell you that we are close on an agreement with the Saudis on the creation of a boxing league where we, TKO, would be the producer, the promoter, and responsible for all day to day operations

of the venture whereby we would receive a fee of 10 million plus. Again, we're not putting any money in, we're not putting any capital in, we're not on the hook for any capbacks. On top of that, you should know that as part of the partnership, we would be the promoter, producer, and event operator of four large scale kind of superfights,

as I call them, that would air really probably to this year and to in 2025. Those may or may not fall into the boxing league itself. They may just be one-offs but we would be paid a fee to act as the promoter, the producer, and the event operator. Okay so a lot of interesting things there. Number one, the reason he stresses they're not going to be paying anything, that it's all money coming from Saudi, is to tell the investors like, hey there's no risk here, right? It's just value add, if you will.

It's also interesting that in boxing, most of the promoters, unless it's the smaller shows, aren't paying for the production, aren't running the show. In MMA, the way it is, and that's been established by the UFC, the broadcasters work for the UFC, the production is paid by the UFC.

Now they cut a deal with ESPN or whomever, Fox back in the day, Spike, but then they run everything. In case you don't know, the NBA cuts a deal with ESPN, they don't run the production, they don't hire the broadcasters, ESPN does. MMA and pro wrestling are really the only kind of entities that do this and some like smaller boxing shows. This would be unique to boxing because they would be running it, they would be choosing the

broadcasters, they would be doing everything soup to nuts. And so all that is interesting, I think it's interesting that he calls it a league. When we think league we think like GFL, IFL, uh, that may just be him not being like a fight guy and confusing league for promotion, or it may be a sign of how this thing will be structured. My understanding is it will be very sort of like grassroots. They're not trying to, you know, compete necessarily off the bat with the likes of, you know,

Matchroom or Queensberry or Top Rank or PBC like the big dogs right now, build up guys, pay them a certain amount, and then eventually they become that. Now, I wouldn't be surprised whenever it comes time to finding a new broadcast home for the UFC here in the United States if this is a part of the equation. Meaning there is a scenario perhaps with top rank leaving ESPN and UFC still wanting to be in business with ESPN and vice versa where this potential quote-unquote league replaces top rank on ESPN. I don't think that's a very far-fetched idea. And so let's see, but the same way they were able to couple PowerSlap with UFC in Saudi Arabia and in Abu Dhabi and other places, they're very good at

doing this and you're seeing it now with you know the TKO group weekends and all this stuff. So stay tuned for that. But what's most interesting about all this is what he said at the very very end about these four super fights, these these these mega fights if you will, that to me is most interesting because that's when they're really going to get into the boxing business. He said potentially to this year and to next year, are these, are these one-off fights, could this, you know, could this mean a Canelo Alvarez versus Terrence Crawford like fight on the grandest of stages?

Who promotes better than UFC and WWE? Who puts on big mega combat sports shows Better than those guys. No one. No one does Who has a relationship with the the Netflix's of the world? They do the best of relationships at this juncture. And so that to me was where you were like, oh wow, they're really going all into this. It's one thing to have a small quote unquote league for $10 million investment and grassroots and all this stuff. But if you're getting into the mega super fight business for a year, now it's really happening. And I think that's the story to watch. And quite frankly, at least in the boxing world,

I felt like that was the one that everyone kind of missed. It was the very end of that. And him talking about the mega fights, the super fights, because he is right. Nick Khan, who is the president of WWE, has a long standing history in the world of boxing. Working with the likes of Freddie Roach, working with the likes of Manny Pacquiao, working with the likes of And so that would make all the sense in the world. Plus Dana's interest in the world of boxing.

He has not been shy about that as well. And so this is inevitable. This is coming. And we are going to approach a time where it will feel like we're going to be able to do something that's not just about boxing, but it's about the world. And so I think that's a great way to start. And I think that's a great way to start.

And I think that's a great way to start. And he has not been shy about that as well. And so this is inevitable. This is coming. And we are going to approach a time where it will feel like, at least in my opinion, like TKO is really controlling a major chunk of combat sports. They'll have the number one pro wrestling organization. They'll have the number one mixed martial arts organization. And they will quickly become a major player in the world of boxing if it plays out this way. Small organization, grassroots, build up the talent for major mega events that if we

are talking the scale of Canelo Crawford those are those are mammoth. Now where do they go from there? What's the next one after that? They have time to figure it out. Although if Canelo Crawford happens in September, the next one would probably happen in, I don't know, November, December, unless there's one before that. But that feels like a good one to start with, especially if you're focusing on big events in America. So it's fascinating times, friends, it's fascinating times and what a time to have a media outlet that covers all three of these at the same time. Who me? In the best of ways with the highest of quality attached to it.

I've always talked about that Venn diagram. Has that Venn diagram ever been bigger? That middle part? What's that middle part called? The intersection. Is that really it? I feel like it should be a cooler name. I mean it is a pretty cool name. Intersection? Where two of the circles. Is Venn a guy's name? Who's Venn? Yeah, Venn. Sir Venn. Is that true? The creator of the Venn diagram. Is that real? I mean it sounds believable. All right, well, there you go. The intersection, Frank, has never been bigger. No, legit, a guy named John Venn. Legit? Yeah, yeah, John Venn invented the Venn diagram.

V-E-N-N. Yeah. English logician? Logitician. Looks like he just studied logical thinking guess that was the thing back in the 1800s he was knighted though right no no no I thought he was sir John then my apologies by the way did we air on I should have mentioned this at the top of the show were we streaming live on on X today we

sure were oh I'm still our he's lockstep there. They're like the same guy. Who, who, who? Me and Rick literally just said, we sure were. How's that going? I didn't get to see it. I just looked down briefly here and I saw... People seem to be enjoying. Okay. You know, we're gonna have the kink. The kink. What happened? Was there one big kink? Nah, there's no kinks. Just the...

Orgon throw. Organ throw. All right working through. Okay. Yeah, you can watch us on X. Yeah, so now we're on X. We're on YouTube Any There was some talk of a spot. Yeah, I heard some talk about a Spotify video as well Frank Yeah, let Frank let Frank answer that Frank any uh... I'm still not clear if now is the time to talk about it. Ah, that was a good one, Frankie.

No, you're free rein. All you, Frank. Over to you. Um, actually there is some breaking news. Oh. NBA Player of the Week. Jalen Brunson? The Eastern Conference.

Jalen Brunson. Oh yeah. Which leads me to my next point. Really important thing.son? Eastern Conference. Jalen Brunson. Oh yeah. Which leads me to my next point. Really. Hello, On Air. How are you? By the way, are you in Florida right now or are you back? I can't disclose. Okay, go ahead. Just reminds me of an important saying I think everybody should be reminded of listening and hearing the control room as well. I just want you to focus on improving yourself and not proving yourself.

That's so good. So well said. That's so good. So bad, makes no sense. That's so good and it really spoke to me. I saw that, it's funny. I saw that earlier and I said it to the team and of course, we're all very hardworking,

but you know, and I'll be the first to admit as Frank was quick to remind me all very sensitive You know, and I said it to the team and everyone took it so personally Focus on improving yourself not proving yourself. I think is a great motto with the eye contact You were making with all of us individually as you repeated it four or five times. Was that out of the room for this? You were not here. You were not here I was trying I was trying to have a moment with the team before we you know I'm ready break and you were in order to be found.

I'm glad I missed it. Working up on some memes or something, I don't know. Makes no sense. Access to the show, access to the show. Pre-game, it's access to the show. Post-game, it's yeah, there's a lot of memes. This one spoke to me and of course it comes from. What is it, explain it.

What's, what's. If, if. The fact that he needs to explain it. If Myles Turner said this... Oh, 100%. You'd hate it. No, that's not true. It's trash.

It's nonsense. No, it's not. My problem is I have a constant chip on my shoulder. Constant. Now, some might say the chip on your shoulder is good. Yes, it is good. It's the engine, right? It's the engine, but golly, golly, it can be,

it can be exhausting. It can be exhausting. And, um, if you just focus on being a better human being, if you focus on being a healthier human being, a happier human being, and not constantly trying to prove others right or wrong, constantly trying to prove yourself, constantly trying to grit your teeth, grind, this and that.

It's a lot, it's a lot better. Yeah, it's nice. You'll be at home doing nothing and having no impact on the world is great. This doesn't speak to you at any level. This is the guy who doesn't get sick. Do we have impact on the world now? I mean, yes. I'm with Awana here.

Yeah. I mean, yes, I'm with a one here. Yeah In fact, I said I sent this This quote to my mother and her response was great. She said and since you are always trying to improve yourself You're proving yourself. Correct. Oh, they are they are they are part and parcel. They are Simultaneous paths. This makes no sense. What do we put this different? This is this is the self-improvement bucket you can put it there. All right, you need a lot of that So I should I would suggest you focus on that Wow What's going on?

Retreat you should have seen you. I don't think a retreat would help Jordan's got enough vacations plan Brothers got April May June both he's just like, oh, maybe the south of France in July. I'm gonna miss this. July is free. Should we go to the south of France? Well, he's giving us his summer calendar. Rick and Frank are having mad beef.

Let me just say Jordan. I'm sitting there like a child of a. What's happening? Jordan is so guilty that he's taking secret vacations now. He's not even telling anybody. What are you talking about? Secret vacations now. He's not even telling anybody Vacations why don't you improve yourself? You came in this morning you're seriously in Florida Jordan and then Rick put it in the I don't care bucket

Everybody in the front row where I was Thursday night. They knew front Front row? What about the back row? Frank had no idea. There's no chance. He flew out on Thursday night. I helped him with his luggage. My suitcase was in the control room. Guys, here I am trying to end the show on a high note. No, no, no. I want people to remember this when he takes his weekly vacations and then I give my... Oh, yeah. I forgot about this. Alright, let's do Super Child.

I give my eight weeks notice for a wedding that I have to go to and they're like, whoa, you had a wedding this weekend? Yeah. What wedding? They have done that. So the moral of the story is, one, go Knicks. Yeah. Two, I thought your mom was also gonna say

that's a very good point, go Knicks. You know, she's kind of a sort of casual Knicks fan. I thought you were gonna tee up Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart speaking about me and my son on their podcast. That was a great moment. Well, I didn't wanna embarrass you. They said they were familiar with our work.

Nah, you know, you gotta play it cool. I get it. I'm the most enthusiastic guy on the pod, you know? Listen, I get it, I get it, I get it. It was a great moment. They shouted out my son who was over the moon kind of take the shoes yeah you're good it's a Wow, well played Frank. Okay super chats. So the first ones from the couch, but we already answered it How much longer till John Jones gets stripped you took care of that?

Yeah, I'm gonna move on to the next one. I can I yeah. Yeah, maybe the music in between each one. Oh, okay Let's hear I don't like it. Oh This is super chats not super chat over no no okay What else writes between Jackman lens and Burke's who would win a Cody Cody Island style hot dog and bun Hot dog and pita bread eating content Wow I'm picking GC Yeah, my money's on GC. I actually don't know I don't know you would do I think I do well, but you're just so competitive like you're you're prime athlete Like I don't I don't think I could catch up But I would I would give it a good effort. Is it true. You're supposed to like dunk them in water Yeah, don't get in the water bucket of water. Yeah, I guess if it's over ten minutes competitive fire would come out put down

You know 14 to 17 do we do it? Do we just do it one day? I thought some of these fight feels so horrible though like I'm anticipating it. It feels like it would not be fun What else? Next is- That's when we know we're super late in the show and Hoani's like, let's just get out of here. Oh, I just wanna try to keep it moving. Andrew writes, boys, Oli Bar update.

First round, little sloppy, maybe nervous from the 26 people watching. Second round, but do you guys remember who Oli Bar is? Yes, yes, yes. But left, right, good night. Send Jared the Musk Hus into another planet, shout out to Oli Barr. Shout out to Oli. Does that mean he won?

Yeah, he won. Shout out to Oli Barr, baby. He slept a little. Ten more New Zealand dollars for us. Jason Wright. I can't. What else? There's a protocol.

Yeah, I mean. It sounds so impatient, though. Do you want the what else and the jingle in between each? Yeah, I thought that would be nice. What else? Jingle's a lot shyerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr the biggest heel faction of all time and changed the business. But Cena going out as a heel makes his final run so much more interesting. But time will tell on Cena's heel. Listen, first of all, that's a tremendous point from Jason. I actually failed to mention one thing that I wanted to mention. It's actually, in reality, unfair to compare the two.

We're comparing a story that is 30 years old to a story that is 48 hours old. And so maybe in the end, it ends up being bigger, right? I will just say, I was trying, and I should have clarified this, I'm comparing July of 96, that moment to this, and I am also doing that with the knowledge of what it did. And so what I'm here talking about seismic and it changes the industry, this and that it's unfair to what we just saw on Saturday.

I just don't know. You can compare the holy shits though. You could compare the, Oh my God, that's how I react. And for me, Hogan turning heel, the way in which he did it and then cutting that promo. And plus let's be honest, the the crowd in I believe off top my head remind you would know this I think it was Daytona I'm almost a hundred percent certain it was Daytona let me just it wasn't like five hundred thousand in the Silverdome the ocean

center in Daytona Beach fuck I'm so good so good it's not bad so humble anyway anyway they they were, remember, they were throwing, pelting them with garbage, with like drinks and stuff like that. There wasn't that. I think a lot of the people were stunned, but also that's not a thing in wrestling anymore. Like they weren't doing that.

Imagine Drake is out there like shooting a Coke, like a Coke drink at Freakin' John Cena and company, but they added to it. And also what was great about it was they had that moment with, um, mean gene Oakland coming in and doing the interview and then Hogan cuts that promo, which was so great. That's something that I feel like should happen more in pro wrestling. They started to do it a little bit these days. I noticed, but there should be more post fight or post match interviews. You interviews you know what I mean like in the ring some of the best stuff I

remember from my like attitude era watching was after they would do it then they'd cut a promo there was like more yeah but like bring bring out the reporter mmm I think it would be cool you think just take the mic yourself that takes you out of the you have to suspend disbelief more than if, like why is this person coming into the ring after some fracas just happened? No, like, like a post-match, like, you know, this guy just beat this guy. But then what's the guy doing? Why'd you do it? Why'd you do it? Is, is, is Cody slinking out of the ring while that's happening?

Hell yeah. How's that happening? He just beat his ass. So he's just rolling out and like, see ya? He just got his ass whooped by Travis Scott. I know, that's why he's still in there. 130 pounds soaking wet. Ha ha ha ha ha. By the way, the word on the street

is Travis has been training. Oh, wow. Yeah. I hope so. Bad Bunny versus Travis? It's been, it's tough when you see him through to basketball. How about our boy Action?

Get Action in there. Is he, is he bad at basketball? Yeah, oh yeah. Oh, Travis can't play? I don't know if he has the same tough when you see him through to basketball. How about our boy Action? Get Action in there. Is he bad at basketball? Oh, Travis can't play? I don't know if he has the same, like you see Bad Bunny, he's like kind of jacked, he's athletic. Does Travis have that same body? I don't know, we're gonna have to see. Did you see him like chillin'? Was he smoking a doobie back there? They kept saying it was an incense or...

An e-cig? No, it definitely wasn't an e-cig, it was an incense or... Wacky Tabacky? What is...Sage, it was sage that he was putting all over. Is that like his thing? Cause he lit it up like three or four times and was like, I don't know what the sage on everyone. They're saying he's the Dennis Rodman of the group.

Yeah, that's the comparison. And so initially rock came out with three and then he did the weird slip. And then it was two. That one has me intrigued. Is John Cena gonna lose the jorts? Are we gonna see him in a different outfit? He's gotta lose the jorts.

I feel like now you come out of Python. Awesome change. Oh yeah, I feel like you go like black. I'm intrigued. Is John Cena gonna lose the jorts? Are we gonna see him in a different outfit? He's gotta lose the jorts. He's gotta lose the jorts. I feel like now you come out of Python. Oh, the costume change? Oh yeah, I feel like you go like black. Yes, he's gotta lose the jorts. He's gotta say, F them kids. But what is a dark Cena you look like? Fill in the bald spot too?

Geez. Shave the head. Yeah. Go like hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grow a beard. Join the bald brands. What if he keeps the jorts

and he just becomes still called Steve Austin? He gets the goatee and the black shirt and the jorts. Nah, nah, nah, nah. He's got to grow a beard now. All bad guys have a beard in wrestling, that is. Oh, John Cena with a beard would be bizarre to see. Like switch it up, man. Like the Hogan one almost looked like it was like drawn on.

It does feel crazy that we're, I'm telling you, this will never happen again. Something of this magnitude will never happen again in wrestling in terms of a turn. Yes, I'm telling you this will never happen again. Something of this magnitude will never happen again in wrestling in terms of a turn. Yes, I'm telling you. No, you can't say that definitively. 1000%. There is no one that is going to be a face for this long.

Look how many times Roman goes back and forth. Look how many times Rock went back and forth. Stone Cold went back and forth. And by the way, when Stone Cold turned heel, remember when he turned heel? WrestleMania, I believe it was 17 and sided with Vince and like the corporation and all that. People said that was going to be Hogan-esque. It wasn't because we had already seen him as a

heel. Now early, early, early on, Cena was kind of like a quasi heel with the wrapping, but it was nothing like this. He was just kind of figuring himself out. But is Roman ever really a heel? Because he's getting cheers. He's still, he's still the fan favorite, you know? Like he's not like... No, no, now he's actually more face, but there was a, there was a point where he was, he was definitely heelish. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah, she must be She must be devastated. I'm still not sure if she actually doesn't like that or does like I can't tell there were videos on reddit of

Like kids crying when you know turn to you some of the reaction videos are great. And then afterwards they said we're gonna do a we're gonna do a Press conference and they said rock was gonna to be there and they said, oh Triple H and Sina and I was like no, no, no, no, no, press conferences are fine. Rock does a tremendous job of going in and out. Triple H is the Dana of the company so he does a great job of talking about the business. But don't have Sina speak for the first time at a press conference. No way.

That would be a huge mistake. They played it perfectly. This is what happened. Yeah, Big John. Look at that. It's almost like he's in a trance or something. Is he drunk? I like the way he slowly pulled the mic. Like a good drama there. That was fun. That was great. That was great, man. But we're not going to see him in those bright colors anymore, I guess you're saying. You're pretty... No more bright colors, no more George. None of this. None of this hunky-dory stuff. Enough already. We've done it. The guy's almost 50 I guess you're saying you're pretty no more right doors. No more George Hunky-dory stuff enough already. We've done it. The guy's almost 50 years old and he's still dressed like a like a like a 19 year old

It's time to move on adds to it. Like a 19 year old from 2003. Yes Yes, it would be like I still rocking my I used to rock like super baggy. Yeah Super baggy jeans. What were they? No, no, no super baggy, super baggy. Janko jeans? What were they? No, no, no, super baggy shorts. Like the shorts, like the amount of leg that you would see was like that. My grandmother actually texted me a picture of me from 2005 and my shorts are egregious. So I wish I could show this, but Rick can see it. It's like, look at those shorts.

Oh, yeah. Look at those shorts. I mean, nothing is showing. can see it. It's like, look at those shorts. Yeah, those are them. Those are them. Yeah, those are the pants. By the way, this is actually me in a Boy Scout uniform with a cut open hand. This is good time. Yeah.

Shout out. Six in that pic. I'm like 11, cut my hand open. Yeah, shout out to those shorts, man. Look at that. Look at that. With the pockets. Yeah, look at that.

Yeah, cargo shorts. By the way. Blink 18 that, look at that. With the pockets. Yeah, look at that, yeah, cargo shorts. By the way. Blink 182. Right as they get. Limp Bizkit. Legendary. Never left that era. My shorts still look like that.

Yeah, so John Cena still dresses like that 22 years later. Yeah, so it's time to update. Perhaps we'll get some answers today. And I think we've addressed it all. Is there anything else that I? What else? Oh, there's more. Jeez, okay.

Wow, that was... So, if you wanna follow... Sorry. If you wanna lead this. So, Slito asks, GC early line on pants escape ending an eye poke? I don't think that's next, by the way. Yeah, I think it's KKF next.

Yeah. We'll say even money. I'm okay with that. By the way, don't even have Manel fight anyone else. Yeah, just wait it next. Yeah. We'll say even money. I'm okay with that. By the way, don't even have Manel fight anyone else. Yeah, just wait it out. Yeah. Flyweight is two and disarray. Wait it out. Now we can't have him fight like freaking, you know, Royval and then Royval

wins and now all of a sudden like- Or he misses Wade and doesn't fight Royval. We're good, we're good, we're good. What else? Cameron Mitchell writes, with MMA seeming to be bigger than boxing along with greater PPV sales, how is it that boxers make so much more money? Oh, what a question. I mean, the whole business model is completely different.

The promoters take way less, the top stars take way more. You're basically comparing the UFC to a whole sport, boxing, and the breakdown is complete. Basically, it's completely flipped. Like the number that's been thrown out is 18%, 20%, something like that in MMA, in the UFC, that the fighters received, 80% or give or take,

a percent or two to the promoters. In boxing, it's flipped. So the event on Saturday in Brooklyn, Tank Davis, he's making that boatload. And why is that? Because when the Fritidas bought the business, they recognized that they were able to own the business and do it their way. There was no competition and they recognized what the shortcomings were of the sport of boxing. And so it was the greatest deal of all time, $2 million. And obviously it took some time not trying to deny that, not trying to diminish that, but two million deal.

You can own the sport. You don't have to deal with Aliyak. You don't have to deal with rankings. You don't have to deal with sanctioning bodies or anything like that. You decide who fights it's your belt. There are no promotional belts in boxing. Matchroom doesn't have their own belt.

Um, top rank doesn't have their own belt. They have to adhere to the commissions and all that stuff. There's the sanctioning bodies. Uh, it's just, it's an app. I've always said this, and this is why what we saw with TKO, why it works so well. Wrestling and, and, and MMA are a lot more important than the And this is why what we saw with TKO, why it works so well. Wrestling and MMA are a lot more closer to each other than MMA boxing. Everyone always wants to compare MMA to boxing or MMA to real sports. No, wrestling and MMA. WWE is UFC.

UFC is WWE the way it's structured, the way the contracts are. And that's why it's working so well now what else? Forest is going to penalty kicks. Oh my god! Forest is going to penalty kicks right now? Right now. On ESPN plus? Yep. Yeah of course. Why'd you ask that? Well I just wanted to make sure. Forest is going to penalty kicks right now. Where are we at? Where are we at? It's just about to start. It's just about to start? Should we stay on? That's your call. No, what?

I misread. Wow! Force going to penalty kicks? We have to give some Some some some Wow! Four squirt of penalty kicks? We have to give some resolution to this. You want the one man boot. I want the one man boot. If they're watching live, they can go ESPN+. If they're getting this on demand, they can quit Google search. Is this akin to someone getting chewed off on V? Hey man, you're in control here.

On the Oscars? Yeah. Great Oscars. Oh here's Chris Wood stepping up. Let's go. I can't believe they went to penalty kicks against Ipswich. Clearly the whole squad didn't play. We're not concerned about the FA Cup. By the way, we've got a big one this weekend, Man City. Here we go. Chris Wood lining up. Oh I can't play that right? Damn it. This is a big one for the big man. The pride of New Zealand lining up. Oh, I can't play that, right? Damn it. This is a big one for the big man. The pride of New Zealand stepping up.

Here he goes. Come on, Chris. Chrissy Chrissy Wood, Chrissy Wood, Chrissy Chrissy Wood. Na na na na na na na na na na. Deep breath from Chris Wood, the pride of New Zealand with the right foot. Charity scores. Back of the onion bag New Zealand. With the right foot, Chanty scores!

Back of the onion bag, yeah! Chrissy Chrissy Wood, you know that's the song for him, right? Chrissy Chrissy Wood, Chrissy Wood. Yeah, just put any name to that jingle. Na na na na na na, what a day. Whatever your name is, we'll put that. Yeah, that's right.

That jingle. That's right, that's right. That's a big time score by the veteran, the pride of New Zealand, the striker, the number nine for your Nottingham Forest. Hey, what a great day it has been, my friends. Thank you very much to Toni Ferguson, Rafael Fazeve, Daria Baronata, what a great story.

Thank you so much for her for coming in studio. We wish her the very best. Thank you to Keith Ida. Thanks to you, thanks to that back tomorrow. Say goodbye to the Sizzlebeez, I'm out of here.