The Ariel Helwani Show - UFC 316 weigh-in reaction, Kayla Harrison makes 135, Jon Jones' tweet storm, more | The Craic

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

The Craic is back! Petesy Carroll is joined by Craic regulars Chuck Mindenhall and Ben Fowlkes.The boys open the show by breaking down the UFC 316 weigh-in results and analyzing which fighters looked sharp on the scales (5:14).One fighter who had no trouble making weight was Kayla Harrison, who challenges Juliana Peña for the bantamweight title. The guys explore each fighter’s path to victory and debate whether the betting line is disrespecting the reigning champion, Peña (10:14).Despite two title fights on the card, the buzz around UFC 316 isn’t quite where it should be. The trio discuss the underwhelming ticket sales and whether the UFC is currently in a slump with fans (20:47).Shifting gears to the main event, the guys dive into the biggest storylines ahead of Sean O’Malley’s second title challenge against Merab Dvalishvili (23:42).Is Patchy Mix the best fighter to make the jump from Bellator to the UFC? Petesy and the lads break down the challenge ahead for the newcomer, as he takes on Mario Bautista in a bid to enter the top of the bantamweight sweepstakes (35:15).Jon Jones is back in the headlines! The crew react to his latest tweet storm, and weigh in on the increasingly unlikely unification bout with Tom Aspinall (49:03).To close out the show, Petesy and the guys pay tribute to the late MMA media legend Jordan Breen (56:10).

It is UFC 316 Fight Week and the title fights are official ladies and gentlemen. All parties weighed in successfully this morning, of course, in the beautiful state of New Jersey. I was there last year, would you believe? A mind blowing situation where I saw actually the situation from Jersey Shore sprinting towards the octagon to film a little image of Donald Trump walking towards the cage as an Irish man. It was an incredible piece of pop culture. The witness and person sitting to my right that day was the great New York Rick, who was responsible for our fantastic introduction to last week's show. But I'm happy to say that on air Jordan is back and he is not the only person

that's back today because Chuck Mendenhall is here as well. And my God, we've missed him. And as usual, Ben Foulkes is here. The man who has helped me steer this ship through to troublesome waters over the last few weeks. Lads, how are you both looking fantastic as always. First of all, Chuck, how are you, my love? Look at this. What is this hat today?

Tell me. I don't know that. I think you've asked about this hat before, Pete. This is a Denver Bears. I me. I don't know that. I think you've asked about this hat before pizza. This is a Denver bears. I remember. Yeah. There we go. See, it's a Denver bears minor league baseball hat. I put it on for you guys. I know you're big baseball fans. Do you know, it's the only American sport that I can't get interested in. And I believe like, you see, I've played video games to get myself interested in things before. And I believe the baseball game, the show or whatever it's called,

the show really high on that one. Yeah. It's meant to be. It's hard. Yeah. Nah, well then fuck that. How happy are you that Dallas fired its coach? Come on, man.

This is a big day for us. I know you hate the stars. You hate the stars as much as I do talking hockey now. Well, I hate any, uh, hockey team south of the Mason-Dixon line, except for, you know, Southern California teams. They're okay. They're cool. And my book, everybody else, they shouldn't have hockey teams.

That's my, my situation. Uh, I kind of felt bad for that coach getting fired because I was like, okay, he keeps taking them deep into the playoffs. They got knocked out by the Oilers who happened to have the best player on the face of the earth in Connor McDavid and on one of the best players in Leon Dreisaitl. And it's like, what do you want the coach to do at a certain point? I mean, he could beat them, Ben. You gotta beat them.

I mean, I don't know if the problem there was that we didn't coach hard enough or well enough. I think it was that you ran up against some generational talents at hockey and they were just better than you were. But maybe that's why I'm not the GM of a hockey team. I understand sometimes you got to do something to throw a bone to the fans to be like, don't worry, I have given you at least some semblance of a reason to think it'll be better next year.

Well, let's be honest with you. I did not know that the Dallas stars in fact, but I'm, I'm glad that it's all been sorted out now, Ben, uh, out of fear of asking another question you've already answered my memory, absolutely terrible. Are you, are you from Dallas because you're an eclectic man who's lived all over America, as far as I'm concerned, where the hell are you from? No, I don't mess with Texas. Uh, the, the, the official lore,

I was born in Memphis, Tennessee. Most of my family is from the South, from Tennessee and Mississippi. I grew up mostly in Southern California, which is why the LA Kings, they're cool. They can have a hockey team. The Ducks, fine, I guess they can have a hockey team too. Uh, went to college in San Diego, go Aztec San Diego state.

Uh, but I've been in Montana for so long. I feel like a Montanan. They will never accept me as a Montanan. My children can be Montanans. They'll never accept me. What are you talking about? You're like the purest Montanan I've seen. I know he's out there every weekend in the, in the river.

Like we. Not how it works over here. Let me tell you, if you're watching himself in spring water, yeah, you're like a proper mountain man, you know, every time anyone says like Montana on a podcast, I'm like, it's the same with like, you say Colorado, I always text. But I text you about everything.

Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's like, uh, yeah, when they say the line, that's the title of the movie. That's how I feel when I hear that stuff. And lads, as much as I'd love to talk about hockey, as much as I love to talk about American geography, because you know, I love it.

You know, I love that beautiful, beautiful country of yours. We've got a message from a new partner. And if you wouldn't mind, I'm about to hit you with a new ad. This time it is for daily draw. Ladies and gentlemen, Daily Draw, the free to play game from Yahoo Sports will feature UFC 316 on Saturday and gives you the opportunity to win prizes by finishing in the top three. New York, Rick has done this before, by the way, play Daily Draw on the Yahoo

Sports app. It's fun and it's free. Ladies and gentlemen, get over there on the Yahoo Sports app. I play it all the time I swear by it and if I don't play it it ruins my day So there you go guys the daily draw UFC 316 is the topic of conversation over the daily draw offices It's also the topic of conversation on the crack this Friday crack heads and lads Here's the thing. We saw the weigh-ins earlier. Um, I believe the beautiful honor Jordan was showing it to us earlier.

Kayla Harrison, in my opinion, probably looked as fresh as I have ever seen her on the scales, by the way, Ben, you're not in your head. And you're going to say fresh. I mean, she looked fine. Like she didn't like, here's what's weird to me. We have a skewed metric in this sport for what counts as looking good on the scales. Because I mentioned when I first saw this video of her on the scales this morning, I was like, her face looks skeletal. That is not what her face looks like normally.

And that is not, she's not the only person to experience that, but nobody looks like that after, um, you know, relatively small weight cut. That is the stuff that you see after a huge weight cut. That's what Conor McGregor used to look like at 145. Yeah. It's what like Uriah Faber looked like going down to 135. Like that, that face where your eyes are sunken, you know, your cheeks are hollowed out. And especially when you compare it with the rest of her body, like her physique,

her upper body physique, very, very muscular. And so it's like, you can tell looking at that, that that's, that's not the face that belongs with that frame. That is a weight cut face. If you've ever seen it. Now I mentioned something where I was like, yikes, man, like that, that looks like a hard weight cut. And people were saying to me like, Hey, she

walked on and walked off. She didn't stand there shaking, you know, like. They didn't have to carry her off in a stretcher. Like we've seen before, like she didn't stand there doing that little like grimace while your whole body is trembling and you're cold and you're behind the, you know, the little sheet of shame kind of thing.

Like she, she didn't do any of that. And we count that as good. We're like, Hey, you could, the little sheet of shame kind of thing. Like she, she didn't do any of that. And we count that as good. We're like, Hey, you could walk on and off on your own power. You didn't seem like you were about to die. So must be fine. And I'm not saying like that. I think it won't be fine, but it's like when we were looking at a fight like this, where she comes in as such a huge favor and you're going, what is Juliana

Pena's best chance to beat her? And honestly, the best chance is that the weight cut takes too much out of Kayla Harrison, especially in a five round fight. Like that is the best weapon Giuliana Pena has going for her is the weight. Yeah. I think maybe I'm speaking for the fan base here.

Maybe I'm the voice of the fan base going, look, she ain't shaking guys. That's the best I feel she has a chance here. I mean, I think a lot of it is just that we've, she's held under such different scrutiny with this, cause I keep waiting, honestly, like you keep waiting for the moment she won't make this weight or it's going to go catastrophic for her in some way, but apparently, you know, this is a, she's, she's such a pro at it.

You don't even really hear her complaining. You just see her show up in this form and you're like, Oh my God, that must've been hell, you don't hear people talking about it. Um, but each time she does it, I think the real Marvel is that Ben, like she shows up and she's there regardless of how she looks, she's there. She's walking on her own. Um, and she's going to be there for the fight.

I don't know how long she can continue this. We keep talking about, you know, Amanda Nunes probably being like the dangling carrot beyond this fight. And you think that's one extension longer where she's going to have to turn away the the Fettuccines and things like that for a little while longer. You know what I mean? And keep this and keep this kind of a skeletal frame like this, this or whatever her routine is to get down to that. But man, it can't be, it can't be good. It can't be good to keep doing that to yourself, you know what I mean?

Like you just look at her and you're like, that's just, it's not, it's, it's just below like human living at that point. You know what I mean? Like there's something really weird going on with that. I'm, I think it's remarkable that she makes it, but I don't know how many times I want to see her do that. Yeah.

Which you're right. She never complains about it. You never hear her saying she acts like it's fine. This is just part of the business. And, but you look at it and you're like, that is a harder cut for you than it is for a lot of other people who 135 is a more natural division for them. Like she had to get down to 135 because that's what the UFC has on offer. That's, that's kind of it at this point. And so you got to get there and it's, you see somebody going into their mid thirties, losing that way and

making that cut does not get easier as you get older. I can tell you as a gentleman of a certain age, losing weight when you want to doesn't get easier the older you get. And so you do wonder what that's taken out of her and how much longer she will be able to do it. And the thing is you keep waiting to see the effects on fight Night. And I don't know if we have yet, you know, like that she's a real pro in that sense. And so I'm not saying anything that I think that like, you know, she is screwing herself up. I, I still think she could go in there a little bit diminished and beat Giuliana Pena,

but that is the, what it seems to me is that there's a threat to Kayla Harrison being a dominant, long running UFC women's band to win the title. Julianna Pena, but that is the, what it seems to me is that there's a threat to Kayla Harrison being a dominant, long running UFC women's bantamweight champ. It's the weight more than it is anybody that you see in the field right now. It's obviously a massive, massive favor here guys. I believe the stat was that she was the most favored challenger to ever contest the UFC title for you in and lead up to this one. That obviously makes you feel a certain way, you know, like when you're looking at this

fight like those guys as media and you're like, holy shit, that is a lot of pressure, right? For everyone to be like, you're going to win this fight. Chuck, does that, do you think she's comfortable with this situation? She's obviously an Olympian. She's done great things in her career. We know she's lost to Larissa Pacheco before, but is that a really weird situation to be going into your first title fight in the UFC and like everybody in the world expects you to win this fight? No, I think that she's used to this, man, to be honest, like she's such a competitor. You know, we're talking about her cutting down and what she must go through to get

there, if that doesn't speak to kind of her hunger to be who she is and to do these things, like, I don't know what else could be a testament to why she was, you know, Olympic gold medalist and why she's been able to do so much in her career. I think she's used to it, man. And there's a part of it that's more rather than respectful towards Kayla. That's a little disrespectful towards Juliana because it's, it's weird because it's almost like they're saying that she's an interloper or just a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little that's a little disrespectful towards Juliana because it's weird because it's almost like they're saying that she's an interloper or just a placeholder in the spot until somebody like Kayla comes along and just, you know, takes this belt away, right? Like that she's not really supposed to be there. And that's a little bit of a fun setup for me, only given that we saw what happened in that first

Amanda Nunes fight. Like, and I, you know, you look at something like that and you're like, I know that she's capable, she wasn't supposed to get that, remember she kind of just. Yeah. Barked her way into that fight and then she was able to perform. I think she's one of those people who, um, you

know, has it, can put that chip on her shoulder and use it to good advantage. And you could see the scenario, like when you're talking about the path, the victory, you're like, the scenario is exactly what Ben was pointing out. Somehow Kayla's in a little bit of a diminished form. The fight reaches a little bit further towards the championship rounds. And suddenly it's Juliana Pena who's coming on strong while Kayla's, you know

what I mean? Like you can see the scenario. So I feel like it's almost more disrespectful that line. What is the line by the way, right now? Do you have those numbers? I will get, I know it started off. His story was minus 700 or something. And actually, something like that, but that strikes me as slightly more disrespectful toward Juliana than anything else.

Yeah. I'm looking at minus 700 and as high as minus 800 on some sites, but yeah. And I think that like you're right, like saying that it's disrespectful to Juliana. I think it's kind of meant to be. I think that it's because people don't really view her as a real champ at this point. Yeah. They view her as, you know, you had a cup of coffee with the belt when you surprised Amanda Nunes, then you had the rematch and she restored order to the world.

What we thought was going to happen, happened. Uh, and then, you know, you want a close one. Once Amanda Nunes was out of the picture and we were trying to decide, okay, who might be the second best women's bantamweight for now, but we all kind of eye on somebody like Kayla Harrison is like, okay, when she gets here, you know, when, when mama comes home, you're going to be in trouble. And like that was kind of the mood. And I think that that's what you're seeing reflected in the betting line is people were like, okay, we didn't think that you were a great athlete.

We didn't think that you were a great champion or anything. We kind of see you as a caretaker champion at this point until you prove us wrong. But I will say one thing about Giuliano Pena, like she is not, I think, an athlete on the level of Kayla Harrison doesn't have, uh, as many of the, the, the assets and the depositives in her favor, but she got that dog in her. Juliana Pena, that's one thing that we never had to question about Juliana Pena. She got that dog in her. If there's no one who believes in her, she believes in her.

And that if you get into a messy fight that drags on late, if Kayla Harrison starts to fade, that's when Juliana Pena can do something because she's, she's scrappy, she's not going to give up. She's not going to go away easily. You're going to have to take it from her. Uh, and so I wouldn't count her out completely just because of that. And honestly, man, just thinking back, remember on the first Amanda fight, those jabs that kind of set up the sequence that started to happen.

It still seems surreal to think about that. But since we have seen something like that, it's, you know, you can kind of imagine a scenario where, you know, something similar could happen for her. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is like those jabs in that fight, she really disrupted Amanda Nunes' rhythm and disrupted like Amanda Nunes' getting going. And that's the kind of thing that you'd have to do against Kayla Harrison if

you're Juliana Pena, cause that's like the big problem I see for her in this fight is do you get to be the one who decides where and at what pace this fight happens? Cause that's really hard to do against Kayla Harrison. She has that ability where she is not only like aggressive, but she can get you where and at what pace this fight happens. Cause that's really hard to do against Kayla Harrison. She has that ability where she is not only like aggressive, but she can get you where she wants you and she can really take control and you see so often in her fights, her opponents just end up playing catch up and they're not in control of any of it at all and that'll wear you out.

And it's also just hard to win rounds that way. And so it's like, she has to find a way to stop that from happening. She found a way in that first Amanda Nunes site just by disrupting her rhythm. If she could find a way to do that against Kayla Harrison, then her chances get a lot better. And that's, that's kind of the way the rest of it, Pacheco beat Kayla Harrison as well, right? Like it was very similar in that way.

She just wouldn't let her get her game going. Like she, I think she probably lost the first round, but then Pacheco kind of came back into it, start just disrupting everything she was trying to do. So we have seen it happen to her before. And that said, like you're talking about Juliana in terms of like the dog and her. I think this underdog situation helps so much in that regard. Like the chip has become a bowler.

Like she's dragging it. She's bringing it to the press conference. She's like, look at this shit. All of you. I got a quite significant tongue lashing from the Venezuelan Vixen. She said, because I picked Kayla Harrison, that I want to be, sorry, yes.

I want to be pegged by Kayla Harrison. What? She said, yeah. So you personally, she said this is you personally. Yeah, I mean, personally. That's obviously the last- That's a fact, by the way, Ben. I do have an email.

I mean, all I would say to that is, by the way, Ben. I do have an email that confirms all that. All I would say to that is lucky guess, Julianna Pena. I mean, she doesn't know. That is wild to me that she's... She's been reading your dream diary. Wow. I mean, okay. This maybe gets to one of the other things about Julianna Pena is, she's kind of set herself up as like an anti-hero, but there's such a fine line when it comes to MMA fans because we like a bad guy.

We like a bad girl. You know, we'll like it a little bit if you play that role, but it's a matter of tone somehow that you never know how it's going to come off. And if it comes off wrong, next thing you know, people are calling you cringe. And if it comes off cool, then they love it. And like, it seems like the take of MMA fans has been more cringe than elsewhere. It's also interesting to me. Whenever I see fighters paying attention to who we pick, you know, like when

they're really paying attention to them, they're going into their fights and they're looking around and be like, what are people saying? I personally, if I were in their corner, I would be like, don't do that. Don't pay any attention to this. Don't, don't care what these guys don't care what the media and the fans think about it. Like we're just got to go in there and do what you want. But fighters also love to fire themselves up that way with some of that stuff.

They love that feeling like everybody's against them. You know who, you know, who used to pay attention is your boy Ben Rothwell. I remember, I picked against him once or twice and I know he pointed it out to me. And I was like, Oh geez, I didn't know you're paying attention to that. You know, he'll definitely pay attention to it. He'll I love Ben Rothwell. It's just cause I'm we've known each other so long since back in the IFL days. I'm like, we've known each other like 20 years at this point.

It's crazy. But if I go too long without talking to him, he'll text me and be like, what the hell, are you mad at me or something? One of those dudes. Yeah. Oh yeah. I love it though. Every time I get on the phone with this guy, I can't have a short conversation

with him because he's just so much fun to talk to, but he's one of those, especially some of those fighters like that. And I think he's kind of like that. He won't mention it before the fight that he noticed that you picked against him. But when, after the fight happens, especially if he wins, he's going to remind you, he's going to remind you that you picked against him and you were wrong. Well, so lads, I mean, before we move on to the main event, in fact, the only question remains like, do you think Juliana Pena wins or do you want to get

pegged by Kayla Harrison? Pegged? No, I'm just kidding. I think, uh, you know, you mentioned that Pacheco fight. I think that's the third one, right? The third fight, the one she lost. I think that's the only fight that Harrison has been dragged all the way through to five rounds, I believe.

So that could be one of those types of situations. I hate to ride the fence, but you're almost like, I think the further the fight goes along, if Julie Anakin kind of hold her own early, she could have a true advantage going down the stretch, just given the weight cut and everything else. But I still, I think Kayla Harrison, like just the Testament, like we mentioned, of her just going through this to be in this spot,

I don't think she's going to drop, you know, uh, drop it at the moment. She finally gets to this chance to realize, uh, you know, getting a UFC belt and all that stuff. I feel like she's kind of destined to win this thing. Ben? Yeah. Um, I don't want to be pegged by anybody, just

so we're clear, I mean, that's not no disrespect, but if that's your thing, I'm not into it. You know, you mentioned that, that Larissa Pacheco one, the if that's your thing. Answer the question. I'm not into it. You know, you mentioned that, that Larissa Pacheco one, the thing that I find interesting about that one, especially is I believe that was like her fifth fight in just over a year. It was like, you know, I think from like October of the previous year to that November, when she lost

that fight, she had five fights, which that was, that's a lot, you know, that's just a lot. And it was because PFL was leaning so hard on her. It was, you could see the difference in like Google searches where when they had Kayla Harrison fighting on a card, it went way up when you had anybody else fighting on a PFL card, it went way down. And so they really needed her to keep showing up and fighting for them. And I think that that kind of took a toll.

It just wears you down to fight that often. Uh, you know, not trying to take it away from Lourissa Pacheco. She went, she, she won that fight. So good for her. But here, I think if Kayla Harrison shows up and the weight cut hasn't taken too much out of her, there's just, it's harder for me to talk myself into seeing how Giuliana Pena does. And I agree, she, she got that dog.

If she gets into late rounds, she has a better chance, but it's still not a great chance. We were talking just before we went live here about, you know, just the general lack of buzz around this, this card and kind of how surprising that is, you know, given that it wasn't so long ago to her, like maybe O'Malley is the star that the UFC will hitch their wagon through for the foreseeable future. When he first became champion, when he beat Aljo that time. I think a lot of us were thinking that way.

Like this guy is a superstar potential. The press conference yesterday was a strange one. Like it just felt, you know, we talked about this kind of going through the motion situation with the UFC before, but it was 30 minutes all in all from like them extended introductions. They do when everybody walks out one by one and they're introducing you, they are to the face-offs where they actually take a break for a few minutes and then begin facing them up the tables and everything was 30 minutes and first thing, but I think the actual time of the podium, like talking was like 14 or something, like just a tiny amount of time there.

And obviously at the start as well, it's like tickets still available, which is interesting. And then you go on to ticket master and there is a lot of tickets as honor Jordan shown us there, all those little blue circles there, lads are tickets that are available. You can get ones in the nose blues for $320 or you can get ones right beside the cage there for $2,700. I wonder why they can't sell that. That's crazy.

Practically giving it away. Wow. But I mean, this isn't in one of the big media markets, right? Like you're in Newark, you're right there. You've got a lot of people nearby. This is where the UFC used to go when like to get as close to New York as it could go. It's where John Jones beat Shogun Hua to take the title. You know, so usually it's been a pretty good draw for them.

And I don't know how much of it is that this car is not exactly lighting a fire under people just because they feel like, um, a Rob and Sean O'Malley. We feel like we just saw it. We feel like we know kind of how it's going to go. Uh, and how much of it is that maybe the ticket prices themselves need to come back down to earth a little bit. Yeah, it's, um, it's kind of weird, man. It's, uh, I was, I watched it and even, even the crowd, like, you know,

Juliana has given lions, man, Juliana and Kayla are going for Easter's head out there as they have been for the whole thing and the crowd just doesn't seem like they're getting into it. And O'Malley particularly seems to be like in a microcosm. They gotta be pissed about that. Like you've got a guy who traditionally like stirs up his own interests, you know, he's on, you know, all the things he does, all the bombast and everything else. And he's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not doing any of that. Not even dying my hair.

I know, I'm not gonna dye the hair. I'm not doing any of that. Not even dyeing my hair. I know. I'm not going to dye the hair. I'm not doing anything this. It's like now you choose to step back. I know. You have seen this be like, okay, so now we're not going to be doing all the video games stuff and the social media stuff when we have a title fight for you to sell.

And that's when you decide to become a monk, you know? Yeah, they can't love that. I'm sure. But what do you read in there with outlets? Like, obviously you hear Sean talking and he's like, you know, can't love that. I'm sure. But what do you read now with outlets? Like, like, obviously you hear Sean talking. He's like, you know, I'm much better. I had this labor injury the last time, but he's not given that aura.

I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm a child myself and I need to see sparkly colors and things like this to make me go, wow, who's this guy? But he's not really given me that like aura that like, you know, I'm going in here to set the record straight. Not that he's necessarily ever been that guy that's been like, wow, look, listen to what Sean just said. That's crazy.

You know, he's never been one for wildly overconfident statements, but I'm not, I'm not getting what I think he wants me to get from this. I'm not going, wow, Murab's going to have a lot in his hands this time, but O'Malley, am I crazy Ben? No, I mean, I feel like this is him kind of being like the serious version, right? Like I'm not messing around here. I got my nose to the grindstone. I'm coming out here.

I'm focused and I'm not doing all the other stuff. And there is a point to be made that people are going, but it was the other stuff that we really liked. You know what I mean? We thought he was a good fighter. Like he had the, he has an exciting style when he gets to do it. Marab just didn't let him do it. Uh, I think that he had some positives in that first fight that he could build on

here, especially, you know, saying a, I had an injury that kept me from training specifically the kind of wrestling that I needed in order to go down out there and stop Marab from doing his best stuff. I think sure, like I can believe that. That's not a crazy, I mean, it's not as crazy as saying the lights of the sphere threw me off. You know, it's, that is believable, but it's also when you're dealing with Marab, he's

just so good at what he does. He's just so relentless. There's no chance at all that you're going to get him tired, that he's going to be diminished in the fifth round, as opposed to the, how he starts in the first round, like all that stuff is really tough for anybody to overcome. Especially if that is not your strength to be in with. So it's like, I think that especially late in that fight, you saw him, he started to find some success with those body shots. Marab's even said like, Hey, if he had landed those, started landing those

earlier or landed a couple more of them, I might've had some problems with it. So I think that there is some good stuff he could do. I think he would probably need some help from Marab. He would need Marab to decide to stand a little more, um, which maybe Marab will do. Maybe Marab is starting to feel more comfortable as champion. He's like, Hey, I want to go out there and prove I don't need to take everybody down.

Uh, if that happens, then sure. Like you, you get a good chance, but I think that he just staying up and getting up against Marab himself, if Marab convinced himself and says, all I'm going to do is take this guy down and wear him out, I think you're going to have a long night. It could also be that you're just like, you know, this is a guy who experienced the trauma

of being in front of Marab for 25 minutes and he really knows what that means. You know what I mean? Like he, he's done it. And I would think he's a big picture kind of guy that, you know, you might even look at yourself as a little silly because he was kind of treating, you know, the first time through the, the Marab would be this nuisance he was going to deal with.

And you know, he was pretty sure he was going to be able to handle it, all that stuff. Maybe he starts to identify his own delusions within that. Maybe that's what that fight actually did for him. But the bottom line is I kind of like Pete said I'm a little bit opposite. I'm intrigued I guess by you know this serious version is like is he is he going to do anything different? Can he make it different? Did he take it you know too lightly? I don't know. I don't really know. I mean but if he was just going in with the exact same stuff who knows. I don't know if I'd feel different but I'm intrigued by O'Malley's kind of change, the

severe change to see about it. And to me, that's like, man, I think he got humbled a little bit in that first fight and he's kind of admitting it. You know what I mean? I think he's admitting it. And that's, that's kind of a, you don't see that too often in guys that stature who kind of a, one

of the rare fighters who's really kind of transcended more into the pop culture realm, you know what I mean? Where there's plenty of people just all over, all over culture that are Sean O'Malley fans. I feel like he's reeled it in. It'd be interesting to see what that means for him, man, because his vitality is as a fighter, maybe he's taking it that seriously for this fight. Yeah. And look, look out there.

I think we're all fans of O'Malley. I think he's a great fighter, great fighter to watch. Um, he is a guy that I feel a lot of people tune in for in a, in an age where we're kind of looking around and saying who could be a star. I think O'Malley certainly is one. Um, but I will say all of this stuff, and I'm not trying to say that it's not a thing, it is certainly, um, a change in someone's life to stop all the things he stopped. We've talked about them before.

So he's social media and the pain. Are you saying Jane, the pain, Jane, the pain and smoking weed, obviously. All huge. All the things famous for. But then, yeah. You read Ben's article with Morab and you're like, this is real fucking hardship. Like this guy, like, like I hate to compare.

Okay. But like this guy's life is, is insane. Like the things he had to overcome in his life, just from a sports point of view, but then also from a life point of view, they are far more tangible and universally acknowledged, I would say, than like the difference of giving up gaming or something like this. Like Ben, you, you did a great piece on, tell us, tell us what, what have you learned from Arab from doing this piece?

Yeah. I mean, I agreed that hearing about a guy where he was just like, Hey, I know what I want to be. I want to be a UFC fighter and a UFC champion. And he came here from Georgia with that in mind, but he was like, it was a dream that I didn't even know how to begin chasing because he came to the U S not really speaking much English and he was like, we couldn't even really see the UFC in Georgia.

You have to find clips on YouTube where you could, but it wasn't, it wasn't like a thing where I could be like, here's how someone would go about it. It just had to show up in the U S look around for a gym to train, work in construction during the day. The thing that I found really interesting, cause it's like, you look at his career, he had a couple of amateur fights and then when he went pro, he lost his first fight, won the second one, lost the third. And so then you're sitting there, you're one and two.

And he said at that point, he was starting to think, maybe I'm just not good enough. Maybe I'm never, maybe this dream is never going to happen and I should just be a guy who works construction and lives kind of a quiet life as an immigrant in the U S. And he said, he stopped fighting for a little while and was just thinking like, all right, maybe this isn't for me. And then after just a little time off, he started to realize like, I really miss it. And he's saying the difference between going back to it because you had like some end goal where you were like, I'm here and I want to get to there because

there is where you get money and attention and all the other stuff and coming back to it as a guy who just felt like, all right, I saw what my life was like without this in it and it felt diminished, it felt like something. I love this thing. And so he said, when he came back, he was like, I don't care if I lose. I don what my life was like without this in it. And it felt diminished. It felt like something I love this thing. And so he said, when he came back, he was like, I don't care if I lose. I don't care if I win. Like, I don't care about like career ambition anymore. I want to do it just to do it because like, this is an essential part of my

identity and it's something that I love. And I think that that makes a big difference, you know, especially that early in somebody's career and talking to Ray Longo, where he was just saying, like they watched Marab kind of come up through the ranks and they realized like, okay, this guy has so many of the pieces that he's going to be a special fighter once he figures out how to put it all together. And it was just some growing pains of figuring it out.

But one thing Ray Longo said is he was like, Marab never loses the same way twice, like Marab learns a lot from every single loss that he's had and he'll fix those problems and he'll get back and he'll be better for it. And especially when you, cause sometimes you see guys, success can kind of erode a fighter at a certain point where you get to where you were trying to get. You're winning all these fights and a lot of people, they're not growing that much as a fighter when they're winning all the time. It forces you to grow more when you lose. And it's one of the things I heard from Rashad Evans when I was writing

the story a few weeks ago, where he was like, I started to realize that my losses were baked into my wins because when I want to fight, I wasn't thinking about the mistakes I made. I wasn't getting better. I was just thinking, I must be perfect. I won again. And Murab is one of those guys where you talk to the people around him and they're just like, he's constantly in the gym and he's not constantly in the gym because

of career ambition or because he's, he's trying to necessarily get somewhere. He's in the gym because that's where he wants to be, because that's just like the life that he wants to live. And those kinds of guys tend to last longer at the top once they get there in my experience. Yeah. It's interesting. Uh, that sometimes you get, you get like almost, I don't, GSP, I always point out

GSP was one of those guys who had early losses and, uh, something about that. Registered for him where it put him in a position where he obsessed over the game to the point where he would not let it happen again. In other words, he was so guarded against ever being complacent through his victories, all the ones that like subsequent that he could never slip that far for fear of getting there. I remember Rod Smith, who was a Denver Broncos receiver, like multiple pro bowler. He was one of those guys who was on the practice squad for a long, like for at least a season

or two, they bring him up. He ends up being a pro bowler and all that for all these years. But his mindset was always that he was going to go back to the, to the practice squad, like that they would just tell him at any point in time that he was just going to go back and I sometimes wonder if Murab, cause I did a piece also on Murab the last time through. That's right. And he just kind of like, he, he has that feeling, you know, of just a guy who.

He doesn't want to go back. You know what I mean? Like he doesn't want to go back. You know what I mean? Like he doesn't want to remember those things. He doesn't want to go back and he, uh, you watch him train. I saw him over at a syndicate with, uh, with those guys over there. And he was just, you watch him train, man. And it's just, it's so full, like so full ahead, like everything is so focused, so much energy and you, you realize that that's who he is.

Like he's just, he's that driven and, uh, that's, that's something you've built. You know what I mean? I don't know how you like, I asked him like, where'd you get it? And he's like, I don't know. I just, it's just comes to you at some point, you know, like, but it's, it's certainly like an

interesting study for a guy like him, especially that maybe sometimes those early losses are the best thing that could happen for your career. Cause what does he want? Like 12 in a row now, something like that. It's a, it's a crazy run for that guy. This innate pessimism he has, yeah. Being his driving force, it's almost like the car is going to be pulled out from

underneath me and I noticed, I know we spoke to John Wood about him before and he's kind of going like, this guy is incredible. Like he's so much better than he even knows. And I saw in Ben's article as well with Longo. Longo was kind of having to explain to him, no, you're better than what your record says, Murab. You know, like Murab's looking at like X and O's guys, like just purely black and white.

Well, I'm wanting to. I must be this good. But these guys are like, no, you're fucking incredible. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I can't see how that wouldn't help you. Like that is the opposite of a McGregor effect, right? Where McGregor became this guy where he is the Midas touch. Everything I touch turns to gold. I can't put my foot wrong. Whereas Morab's mentality is like, this is all going to be taken away from me immediately. Like the set like a boy blink, they're going to wrap that belt around someone

else's waist. And I think that's obviously way more conducive to a successful title round. Well, certainly the numbers would suggest so. Um, we also have the debut of patchy mix and Chuck, you spoke to a patchy and the conversation that we're having here is like, is this guy the best guy to come over from Bellator? And you've, you've mentioned a few in the article, Alvarez, I believe is there. Volkov is there.

Um, hit me with some more there. Chandler. Yeah, of course. I mean, you mentioned the newer guys, like, uh, Pitbull who just came over Pico. Like I was, you just, uh, you can just go through the timeline. I mean, this, any of the guys, I mean, I asked him this because I was, you just, you can just go through the, the timeline. I mean, just any of the guys, I mean, I asked him this, cause I was like, it was interesting. We addressed it when we were doing a little round table.

I was like, is he the best guy? Cause some guys come over, they're a little bit long in the tooth. They've already been through a lot of wars, you know, uh, other guys, maybe they just were never there. Like, you know, Michael Van Pesche, who knows? Like it's just, you're just not sure if he was

ever going to be, you know, Michael van Pes, who knows like it's just you're just not sure if he was ever gonna be you know a champion or something like that, but this is a guy who Has kind of proven that he's I think world-class over the course of time. He's won seven in a row He's a I think two-time champion over there with Bellator like so he's kind of put himself in a position plus He's only 31 years old So he may be other than maybe Alvarez. I think that's the closest you get from a bell tour specific standpoint. He mentioned Justin Gaethje is possibly being the one that he would liken himself to because

I think Gaethje at the time was like 17 and 0 when he came over. But he thinks he is. I mean, this is something he thought about a lot. Like he when I asked him about it, he was like, he was coming up with, you know, he's, he's the one telling you all the facts and all this. I think that was a, in terms of the transcription, it was like a 500 word answer, like, like four paragraph type thing, because he thought a lot about this. And I think it really matters to him to be that guy, you know, the guy that, that

was the big fish outside the UFC, um, who comes in and just kind of does the exact same thing in the UFC. So in his mind that he is that guy for sure. He seemed very confident. It was with a thing that came across when I was reading your story. Cause he like, you know, a lot of those guys, they, they think of themselves that way, but they're not going to come out and say it. And he was sitting there being like, look, I'm going to wreck this dude.

I've wrecked everybody who else has done what I've done. You know, he was just really laying it out there and not trying to lower expectations for his debut at all. And, you know, I said, you've rolled with Marab obviously. And he goes, no, Marab has rolled with me. Like he was, he corrected me and he was like, Hey, I'm the, I'm the high degree black belt, you know, all this stuff. Like that's the kind of guy he is.

It's kind of fun though. Right? Like you add this dude who has this kind of confidence into an already pretty stacked situation over there and, uh, you put them against Batista, which should be a great, like, I think that that will tell us a lot right away. You know what I mean?

And for people who are UFC centric, uh, you'll finally get to see what patch mix looks like, you know, in a fight. And I think that this could be a good moment for him. Like he could, who knows where he could end up. I don't, I'm not even sure where Batista is ranked in the U.S. 10th. Okay. But I mean, this is so weird because you come over with a pedigree as a, as a

reigning champion in a situation like this, one victory could launch you all the way to the top if they're trying to just kind of use that, right? Like champion versus champion type thing. Who knows? I think the backstory of Marab, if Marab were to win, you know, who knows how this goes, but it could be a lot of fun going down the stretch here. Yeah. It's actually interesting listening to Marab speak about him as well.

Like he is respectful, but he's also like, this isn't like me and Aljo, by the way. I just want to make it clear. It's not, not like that at all. Um, and as the story goes, Pat, you walks up to him and says, like, basically I'm coming and best of luck to you, mate. I think that is a fucking savage storyline. Do it. Yeah.

It's an incredible storyline. These two working together in syndicate. Well, not really working together, but you know what I mean? Um, what I, what I want to, like, I feel like the band to my division is in like one of the best places ever been in terms of like all of the contenders who are learning up there, so many, so many great, great fighters. Is there a way, Ben, that this guy just leapfrogs everyone and comes in like Corey Santay can be very interested in this answer, of course, but, um, is that

a possibility if he is very impressive against Mario Bautista here? Yeah, I think so. Because right now the situation is we're looking at Marabago and he feels like he is settling in what could be a long title reign and if he beats Sean O'Malley again, the Sean O'Malley rematch feels like the UFC looked around and went, well, we still feel like there's some juice to squeeze out of Sean O'Malley. He's still popular. We don't really have any better ideas.

We, you know, we put Marabba up against Umar and he passed that test. So there's nobody else that really jumps out as a compelling, fresh matchup. Sean O'Malley is at least popular. So let's do that one again. I think that they're seeing that, you know, the interest was not super high, especially because Sean O'Malley hasn't fought since then, so there's not enough reason to give people to think that this one's going to be different. And if you come out of that one and you're looking around and you're going,

you know, Peter Yon's kind of high up on the ranks, but we've also seen it. Uh, Corey Sandhagen is at least one of the guys who couldn't stand there and say, Hey, I've won some fights, I have an exciting style and none of these guys have beat me up yet. So that's a good argument to make, but patchy mix has the thing where people, I think a lot of the fan base has probably heard about him or they're hearing about him this week. They don't know that much about him.

He's doing a good job of talking himself up and is not shying away from that at all. If he comes in here and does everything that he says, if he looks great, submits Mario Batista makes it look like a real one-sided fight, he can really stand there and make an argument being like, I was the champion before you signed me. You just didn't know it yet. And now here I am. Like stop messing around and give me the shot. Like that is entirely possible to me because otherwise Marab versus Corey

Sandhagen feels like a completely reasonable fight to make, but it also seems like the kind of fight that the UFC would make when they go, well, we can't think of anything better. So we might as well do this. So true. It's as sad as that is for Sandhagen. That is absolutely true. I feel like that would be one of those ones that you're like, ah, is that all we have?

Um, if that's all we have, we'll do it, you know, unfortunately. It's a really fun fucking fight as well between Pachi and Murab because if you haven't seen Pachi mix fight, he is an unbelievable submission fighter, just really, really intricate guy. A guy who will sell out on a submission just because he's so confident that he can hit it. He's all action. He never stops. He has a fantastic engine. I don't know if he has Murab's engine, but his grappling ability,

it would be very interesting to see that go against Marab's style, which is just absolutely draining, punishing on whoever he fights. Um, with that said, we've talked about, um, what we think about the dynamic between the two lads, um, Ben, who are you picking to win the Bantamwe title fight? Uh, the, the title fight, uh, between Moorabbin. Sorry, Sean, I'm talking about, I'm talking about, I'm talking about the, uh, yeah, sorry, let's go Apache mix for us and we'll move on to the title fight after that.

I forgot to go ask you guys when we were talking with those dudes. I'm picking Apache mix. I mean, I think we've seen some people struggle sometimes in their UFC debut. It's just different. It hits the nerves different than any other fight that they've been in. But if there's somebody who can come in and deliver and do exactly what he says, I think it's patchy mix. Oh, look, this was the graphic right here.

Oh shit. Yeah. My God, this is me. I always struggle to actually get my face close enough to the screen. Well, I don't feel great knowing that meeting that mysterious Frank is the only other person who picked the Sente Luque. I don't. It's it's not good right now.

Go for it. Go for it. Yeah, yeah. I don't like that either. It's. Yeah, it's true. Did every, did every single one of the lads pick a. Okay. I did. Yes, I did. Did, did Burks and New York Ricks pick Pena?

Yeah. Yeah. You're not talking anymore. This is. All right. Yeah. Totally. Total objectivity there.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. You know what I mean? Jesus Christ. Fair play. I think Frank, I'm fully expecting Frank to overtake me in these fucking things. I'm, I'm 14 and 10, the, like the Steinbeck quote about how America doesn't have any poor people. It only has temporary people. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it I'm, I'm 14 and 10, the, like the Steinbeck quote about how America doesn't have any poor people.

It only has temporarily disgraced future millionaires. That's how I feel about myself in these pics. Like I'm, I might be down there now, but I don't belong there. I know I'm going to get out sooner or later. It's just, yeah, this week is going to be my week. I'm sure of it. How far are we behind? Like, GC is what?

Like 17 and something, is he? I think he's 19 and 10. Jordan, I need you to be a constant voice on our show. If you're going to do this, like I'm... Oh, fuck. He's flying dude. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

17 is a sabbath, baby. All of us are 14 and 10. It's hilarious. But Jesus Christ, 17 is a baby. You're the only one that can challenge. Oh, okay. There you go. Yeah. The chasing pack as they call it, I believe Chuck and Drake. That's brilliant. And then hopefully one of us, you know, we'll, we'll emerge from this

Russ at the bottom of the pigs league. And how do you eat an elephant pizza? One bite at a time. So one thing you can do, like seriously, that's just start picking them right. Did the believe the graphics show that we're all in Marab here. Is that correct? Yeah, I know I am. Yeah.

So is, is the, the talk of nobody took O'Malley, huh? No, obviously haven't heard of all the things that he's given up guys. But, uh, Ben is, is there, D do you buy this sugar to featherweight after this? Like, do you think that's the only viable option for him at this point? I don't know. I think that that could be a tough division for him. Just because when you see fighters who have excelled because they're, they're

either big for the weight class or they're tall and rangy, which I think has really helped him, and then sometimes they go up a division and you lose that advantage and then can they adjust their style for that? Like that's, that always becomes a question. So I don't know. I would see that that's often the way fighters choose to go with it because they kind of get that clean slate. But that's also why we sometimes referred to the weight class move as

the fighter's false friend, because sometimes you go up and you realize there's a reason you were in the weight class you were, uh, but I don't, he's an interesting enough guy. People care about him enough that whatever he does, regardless of how this fight turns out, I think that there will be some interest in it. Like, it's not like he would have to change weight classes in order to stay, you know, a person that people care about. Cause right now, one of the best things he has going for him is that there's

not a whole lot of stars in the UFC. There's just not that many people to choose from. If you want somebody with personality who fans already care about. Pizzi, let me ask you, if O'Malley wins this fight, then what happens? Are they going to do the trilogy? What happens here? Oh, no way. They're not letting Marab get close to that Delta with. If you can squeeze somebody out of O'Malley.

I think I'd be really into it though. If that happened, I think I'd be frothing at the mouth for a trilogy, to be honest. Um, you know, I didn't know you were going to go that way. Um, I had actually already fantasy match made him a featherweight in my head. I thought that's where we were going to go there. But, uh, man, if O'Malley fucking beats him, I think it lights a fire under the whole division again, and he would be, he should be very worried about Patchy Mix. I mean, if he, if he is, if he gets the title back and they're not giving Morav the, the

next like a major immediate rematch, Patchy Mix is an absolute disaster of a fight for him. I'd say he is so good. He is such a good grappler, but to, uh, to go where I was going to go, Chuck, if he went to featherweight, I think a fantastic fight for him at that weight class is Yaya Rodriguez. I think you do Rodriguez Vio Mali. And that is a fucking banger. Come on, Ben. That would be a fight.

That would be a fight. Come on, get excited. I can see him rolling his eyes there. Ben, that's a fucking great show for me, mate. That was fucking, that was class. We're, we're really looking far ahead into the future, uh, when both guys sort of have stuff in front of them. I think like if Sean O'Malley were to win back the Bantamweight title on

Saturday, uh, and I'm not counting out a guy from Helena, Montana, uh, one of the 406's own, he could, he could go out there and find Merab's, uh, Merab's chin. But I think that if he were to win that fight, they do Sean O'Malley and Corey Sandhagen next, just because style wise, that's interesting. I think that you feel like you could promote that fight. You could sell that fight. Uh, and then they worry about what we do next, you know, like give Patchy Mick some time maybe to get over with

the fan base a little bit, but I think if I'm Corey Sandhagen, I'm root for Sean O'Malley this weekend, cause I think that that that's one you could sell. I mean, given how quiet we're talking about this and the tickets that are available, all this UFC is rooting interest has to be with O'Malley. Right? Like if O'Malley wins, obviously the business reopens up, uh, in terms of everything you can do in that division that that that would have to be the case. Right.

Like they would UFC's ideal champion in that division is O'Malley. Yeah. O'Malley, Jan as well over five rounds is another banger. What am I talking about? They have so many good fights they can put on. I need to shut my ass. Um, lads in a segment that has become, you know, so popular on every AMMA show in the world, uh, we've got more news from the John Jones, Tom, Tom Asimov

saga, you, uh, you've been waiting for it crack heads and here it is yet again, as it has been since November. Here is the latest update from John Jones. Um, a lot of tweets today, guys. On Air Jordan, I rang him. I was on the way back from town today and he was like, there is over 100 tweets. How many do you want for the show?

And I was like, it doesn't matter. We know what we're going to be talking about here. Here we go. Him replying to someone that says Asimov is the current heavyweight champ, by the way, and Johnny Meath says, that's awesome. You guys could use one. It is funny if it wasn't so sad, but here we are again. And I know for a fact that Tom Asimov, you've obviously seen him talking this week. He thinks this is over.

He just thinks this is an ultimate troll at this point. He's like, let's fucking go. Let's do something. This guy is taking his is getting way too much pleasure out of not fighting me. Um, Benny is still excited by the adventure that is Tom Asimov, the John Jones, the fight that will likely never happen. No, it seems like it's going to be the one that got away at least for now. I mean, I could absolutely see a scenario right where, uh, John Jones disappears for a while, the sport moves on, he doesn't like it and he comes back and we get this fight, you know, a year or two years

too late, like after everybody was excited about it, that's entirely possible. But for right now, like some of the stuff that he's been saying in these tweets recently, where he's just like, look, I told the UFC that I haven't even really been training, uh, and that I got no intention to fight, but he said something at one point where he was like, I think the UFC thought it was in their best been training, uh, and that I got no intention to fight, but he said something at one point where he was like, I think the UFC thought it was in their best interest to keep me as heavyweight champion, even though I told him I wasn't really going to be out here being the heavyweight champion.

Um, and he made it seem he was like, I've been cashing in on that, uh, I guess by signing deals to go coach, uh, Russian reality shows in Thailand, but he sounds like he is not even thinking about this at all. And he, the more people are pressuring him about it, the more the mask is coming off, sound like maybe he was just trying to play it cool for a while, because that's what the UFC decided to do. And now he's just like, the more people come at him, the more he's just like, look, I'm not doing it.

I don't care what you think. I mean, the UFC just looks stupid in this process. Doesn't it? It's just like, you have a guy in Dana White who spent, I keep pointing this out. Like he spent all of 2024 on an endless kind of John Jones crusade, like to, to protect the fight with Miočić to kind of set it up saying he was the pound for pound King, you're crazy if you don't see him as the goat all the stuff everything that was was said about it and just defended for all that time for a fight that just kind of was you know

nobody really wanted to see and we they stood by him and they've insisted that this fight is going to happen with Tom Aspinall because the system that you put in place by assigning, you know, an interim title to that mix brings them together and you can't get it done. And now you're getting your guy like you can't get it done with, you know, spilling this out to the world or ladling it out to the world. It's just this whole look for the UFC is very unique. I don't recall too many times with the UFC looks this bad in a scenario. And I don't, I don't really understand why. If, if any of this is true, like why you would, why you wouldn't strip him at this point, like this doesn't, it no longer even makes sense to me why you would not

be moving on, uh, and doing this, or at least putting the ultimatum out there. Maybe they're doing that, but like this, this whole situation is just John Jones and fury. Like the people who's defend John Jones at this point are also very curious people. Like has there ever been a harder champion to really love than John Jones? Look at all the different things that have happened through his career.

Uh, the different things he's been in trouble for and everything else. And yet now he's putting them through like a game like this, where you're like, nah, I'm not gonna, I can't be bothered. You know, it's just, to me, to me this is just uh this is a whole different scenario than we've seen um and frustrating your your fan base is unique to me like just the like let's just hold everybody in a frustrated state of mind for the next five months or whatever

it is that doesn't make any sense to me So something's got to give at this point, but to answer your kind of original question, I didn't think I'd get to this point, man, because I wanted to see this fight very badly. Just like I wanted to see John Jones versus Nganu, but I'm starting to lose interest. If he doesn't want to do it, why, you know what I mean?

Like, why do, why do I want to see it? Um, at some point you kind of just want to see people, you know, you want to see Tom Aspinall fight again, you Um, at some point you kind of just want to see people, you know, you want to see Tom Aspinall fight again, you know, at some point you just want to see him continue his career. Yeah. I think how Annie made one of the best points as to why the UFC could be allowing this to happen is because they don't need it to happen right now.

You know, they, they, they're looking towards the backend of the year, November, December, and when they suddenly can't get it to happen, then it will probably become a problem then. Um, but it's so frustrating for Tom Aspland. He must be wondering like, Jesus, they stripped Islam. They stripped Ilya. You know, like when they were like, Oh, I don't want to do this. Immediately stripped them and he's sitting there going, Oh, I'm going to be defending my interim title again. What the fuck is going on here? Like at this point, the gun fight seems great.

Let's just fucking go, you know, let's just get the ball rolling. Um, and I agree with Ben's point as well. We joked about this, by the way. We joked about this. We said, we were like, who's, who would you rather, if it's, uh, would you rather Jones in Aspen or Jones and in Ghana? I'm like, we're going to get, we're going to get, uh, Aspen all and gone. That's what I said.

Remember we were like, we're doing this whole thing and we joked because it was like, that's probably what actually is going to get, we're going to get a hospital and gone. That's what I remember. We were like, we're doing this whole thing. And we joked because it was like, that's probably what actually is going to happen. Yeah. At that time. Well, here we are thinking, well, what a great fight. This is the one. Here's another John Bones. So I know we've been, we've been garnished with several of his hits from this, this morning's.

Like Jordan took all of them. Yeah. Short and fair play to you, man. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. This is a reply to would Gan be Tom? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. I see things like this happen all the time. Fight allows me to come up their whole identity.

They're so focused on being the man. Meanwhile, the competition is lurking. The big mouth gets bit in the ass. Tom Asimov being portrayed as this wanker. Like that's just like, fuck you, John. You fucking. As if it's not the fight that just makes the most sense. The interim champ against the actual champ, but there's no other fight to make.

It's not like Tom Aspynall has just like unfairly set his sights on John Jones. It is the fight. It's the obvious fight. Yeah. It's fucking, I'm so sick of it. But like, we have to talk about it, right? I guess. What was it? When did Jones it was in November, right? So we were like, when should we start panicking about this fight? We're like, we'll give it to March. I panicked in February. I was immediately. As soon as Dana said, do you know what Islam is the

pound for pound? I was like, something's gone. That's true. Something, something has gone awfully wrong and we don't know what it is. But, uh, lads, before we go at the MMA media lost one of its pioneers this week. Um, Jordan Breen, as we learned from a Mike Bond tweet, uh, has passed away a guy who was, you know, absolutely a pioneer, a guy who made so many people fall in love with this sport. He had the press row broadcast, he had the all violence awards, he had an encyclopedic mind. He knew it seemed every inch of MMA. Anywhere you are from, he knew something about that scene. It was incredible. I was telling Ariel earlier this week, I think I was on his show in 2013 and he corrected me on one of Norman Park's early fights.

Like I was like, Oh, and then he beat this guy. He's like, no, I think you'll find it was actually this is what happened there. Pizzi, an incredible guy. A guy who's clearly a legend of MMA and turned so many people onto this sport. Chuck, you wrote a great article for your own side about him. Tell me, I've already spoke to Ariel on his show about this, but tell me, what are your memories of Jordan Breen? I mean, you kind of nailed it. I, he, I, I said this a little bit in the piece, but I really genuinely, uh, I believe this because it was one of those things like he used to have a thing called press row, like he would bring on guys. And I remember going on it a couple of times and

I felt like no matter what I came with, it wasn't enough, you know what I mean? Like, and it's not like he meant to be intimidating that way, but he just had that store of knowledge in his mind. Like he, I, I pointed out the Hatsu Hayoki, um, the thing that he did was like, I called him the iron horse or something.

He's like, it's actually the iron broom. Then he starts going on about like, like you're talking about with Norman Park. Like he, he just has these details that he could flip to instantaneously in his mind, like a file and just, uh, and tell you all about it and, and, and analytically he could do this, you know, just kind of break down a fight on the fly. Like he could just think of the styles and he could just do this stuff. To me, that was at the time, especially because, uh, this was in the earlier days, you know, when you're just kind of when that's starting to boom the the sports starting to boom it felt like man this guy

Knows this shit if you're going to go talk to Jordan Breen you better you better bring your a game and I Thought that that was great because and you know just in a personal in a professional sense You kind of wanted to be able to hang with Jordan Breen. That was really the thing, you know, like he was to me, he was one of the original voices when I started to really cover the sport. He was already out there, you know, he was already doing it. I know Ben was already doing it too. Like you start coming in. I was mostly like right around 2008 is when I really full time into MMA. But the guy there were certain people out there who were already the voices and you were just trying to, uh, figure out how to catch up to them.

You know, at that point. And he was definitely one of those guys, man. Um, I, the one thing that I remember, like, I think that the greatest thing he did was he never forgot that he was following a sport based in absurdity. You know what I mean? Like he never forgot that he never let that go based in absurdity. You know what I mean? Like he never forgot that he never let that go too far from his, his kind of purview, the way he looked at the whole sport. And I thought that that was a good way to do it.

And like we're sitting here talking about the John Jones thing. If you can't have a sense of humor about what's happening in the sport, you won't last, you'll get out of it. It, if at some point you'll be like this, this is a stupid sport or you'll get mad at it, you'll leave. To really love it, you have to love it's all, all the lunacy, all the chaos, all the absurdity. And I thought that he did a very good job at that. I remember one time he was talking about the guys who fake chewing gum on the scale. And he had like the whole list, like he knew the guys who did this or they go up there and fake like they're chewing gum. He's like, why did they do this? He, this is the kind of thing he liked to talk about.

So I think that, uh, on those levels, kind of the spirit of how you should look at the game, he was kind of paramount to that. You know what I mean? Like, I think he was a guy who really showed us how to do that. Ben, you tell me, um, did you encounter, um, Jordan in those early days on the scene days before me and Chuck would have gotten involved here and tell me what your experience with Jordan was like. Yeah. I mean, I really kind of got involved, uh, full time writing around like 2006, 2007.

And I, but I had the, the same experience as Chuck, as I remember going on press row for the first time and I went on a few times, but I remember that first time being like, I'm in over my head, you know, like this, this guy just has that, that depth of knowledge and that passion for it. And especially in those early days, where there wasn't big media outlets covering the sport. And so it was, it was sites like Sharedog were like the most important sites that allowed a fan base to kind of grow around the sport because that was how you could find out what was going on. You know, that I remember when California had that first MMA event, uh, was a strike force event where Frank Shamrock fought Caesar Gracie and they

sold thousands of tickets. And it was one of the first times where it felt like, okay, this sport is actually getting somewhere. And I remember I got to share dog immediately to find out what happened in that fight and he was a big part of that. And that sort of passion came through and there was a certain like advocacy element to the media then that made sense then. Cause it was people needed to stand up and push for this sport and say like,

we believe in this, this is not just a sideshow. Like we're into it. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. We got a bit of lag there on Ben. Sorry to the people watching, but we still got the points across. A guy very, very important in pushing through MMA.

And look, I think the way he spoke as well, I know a lot of people have been highlighting this as well. Like he was incredibly poetic way of speaking about MMA. And I think that really brought some classes of coverage. Like I was talking to someone, a newer MMA media member just yesterday about it. And I was like, you know, he really made it seem like, you know, because especially at the start of the sport, it was all this kind of human cock fighting stuff and whatnot. Um, you know, there's the John McCain line, right?

When he was trying to get it out loud lot, like when Jordan talked about it, and as much as he did talk about how ridiculous it could be at times, like he'd really make you think like, this is art, you know, this is mixed martial arts. Like he, he make you feel like something magic could happen in there. Um, you know, it's, it's a, it's a terrible loss to the community. He was an amazing, amazing journalist and amazing kind of record keeper. Um, his analytical mind is encyclopedic mind. Um, I think he made us all a bit better as we're all highlighting here.

Like when you were going on that show, like you were forced to be good. I can remember when I was on it, same as you guys are saying a lot later than you guys, 2013, I had to wait for that crazy Irish man to start getting some wins before I picked up some, uh, some big spots. But I was in like a Boston hotel and he was like ringing me to be on the show. And I was shitting myself, man. I was like talking to the other Irish guys like, I was like, I don't know if I should do this, man. This could be the end of me. He gets me on here. He asked me five questions. This could be the end of my fucking career before it started. But thankfully he was absolutely great with me.

And look, I'm sure a lot of people I know, Mike, was very close. So I know a lot of the guys that you mentioned at Share Dog, they're very close, obviously, as well. TJ DeSantis, all those guys. So a very tough time for them, I'm sure. It is UFC 316 tomorrow, guys. You're going to have the boys on the live uh, the live show as far as I know. And Chuck Ariel and I will be on the post show. Um, a big, big night in New Jersey, of course I've been there.

Fantastic places. I said already, um, I am shocked that the tickets aren't selling. Um, when I was there, maybe it was something to do with me being there last time, not a, not a, not a seat in the house there, Chuck. Everybody there. I think you're overselling Newark. No, I was in Harrison. What a beautiful place. There was a tops diner, I believe it was down the road.

Um, I ate a lot of food there and I read a New York post and I was like, wow, this truly is America. I did feel very American that day. Uh, they had a weed dispensary right around the corner too. Of course I did not go near that, but I just noticed it there. And I was like, well, that's a handy thing to have. If you were that way inclined guys, this has been an, look, we got the band back together. I'm delighted that they're all here. I love these boys very, very much.

And we love you crack heads, but not as much as you love the UFC. And the UFC is on tomorrow night and I know I'm rambling now. So I'm gonna end the show, but thank you so much for tuning in as always. From Ben folks, from Chuck Bendenhall, from PZ Carol, from on air Jordan, Oscar Loseff, from the Young Crown team.

Have a beautiful weekend. We look, oh wait, hang on. Do we have super chats before you do this? Cause I did this last time. Jordan. It's not working. We have, we've won. Let's go. Sorry, lads. You saw your other way there.

You limped into the show last time. You're limping out this time. What's going on? This one is for the man in the house. Love you, Chuck. There you go. That from Cosmo Kramer. That's a nice thing to say. That only costs your mom two bucks to send Chuck. That's nice. Completely gone. Fuck's sake. I'll just go fuck myself up. That's fine. All right. Let's, um,, I won't do another long one. I'm very bad at saying goodbye.

That's how much I love you, Krakens. Have a wonderful weekend. See you soon. We love yous. Mwah!