The Ariel Helwani Show - UFC 322 preview, Ronda Rousey vs. Holly Holm 10-year anniversary, more | The Craic

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Petesy Carroll, Chuck Mindenhall, and Ben Fowlkes reunite for your weekly dose of The Craic.After reacting to the UFC 322 weigh-in results (4:14), the lads preview the stacked MSG card top to bottom (8:11).Shifting gears to boxing, the crew break down this weekend’s Chris Eubank Jr. vs. Conor Benn rematch and question if the hype is lacking (47:05).Up next, Jake Paul is back in the headlines, this time with Anthony Joshua floated as a potential opponent. Petesy, Chuck, and Ben assess Paul’s chances in that matchup (51:13).Today also marks the 10-year anniversary of Holly Holm’s historic knockout of Ronda Rousey, so the guys reflect on what it means a decade later (1:00:02).To close out the show, the trio give their UFC 322 picks (1:09:22), and answer your Super Chats (1:13:19).

Crackheads. It's Friday. It's a big week. U.S.C. 32222. It's one we've been waiting on for a long, long time. I'm P.C. Carroll. I'm broadcasting from Ireland. You might know that country. You know the one that handed Portugal. It's asked two. Neil yesterday. Cristiano getting sent off 30 minutes before the crying gesture. We have a chance to qualify for the World Cup, but that's not what we're going to talk about today. On Sunday, I'm going to be locked into that game of Hungary, but today it's all about UFC 3-2 with some interludes towards the Ben U-Bank rematch. And maybe you look back at Rousey home. 10-year anniversary. Chuck Mendenhall wrote about it this week. But my God, isn't it nice to just be very excited about a fight card. I'm absolutely buzzing. This welterweight situation that's happening, Islam

Makashev moving up to try and make himself the 10th double champion, I believe, well, he said as much. In the UFC history, Jack Delamadena are people sleeping on the Australian. And then we have all these contenders. Michael Morales, 18 and 0, undefeated against Sean Brady, a man who many people feel already deserves to be fighting for the belt. And that's not all. Leon Edwards, Carlos Pratchez. It's all going down. I'm so excited to talk about all these wonderful things. So let's bring in Chuck Mendenhall and Ben, folks, the lovely duo to get things started here. Here, look at these lovely men. My God, I love them so much. Oh, just, just, just the ease that comes over my body when I see these two men. Chuck Mendenal, how are you getting on, sir?

I'm well, man. I did see the, uh, the thing you're talking about with the Rinaldo doing the little, or whatever that was going on over there. That looked fun. It's, you know, it's the classic Irish football moment. Yesterday, before that match, we're all like, well, who's going to be our new manager? We can't keep this guy. Then they go out and they beat Portugal and we're like, suddenly this is the greatest manager of all. You'll die for this, man.

This is the greatest sporting moment in our country's history. Ben, I know you were watching it. You love soccer. You know, I actually do. I've come to enjoy it quite a bit. I really enjoy when you get into this World Cup qualifier kind of era where some people care a whole lot and other people take it for granted. I think that that's one of the most fun dichotomies in sports. And I say that while my beloved Montana Grizzlies head into

just such an occasion this weekend, they're out in Portland playing the Portland State Vikings who have won exactly one football game this season. And now they play the undefeated first place in the Big Sky Conference Montana Grizzlies. And you're just going to find out whether they still think they have any pride left to play for. That's one of the best things in sports. You get to see these people whose spirits rightfully should have been crushed by now. And they have to rally and see if they can get a moral victory against an absolute behemoth. Personally, I say no. I say they did the Sacramento State get in touch with you, Ben, and just kind of issue any apologies or anything like that? It was implied. I felt it was implied that, you know, they're having

a little bit of fun. Dr. Luke Woods is having a little bit of fun. He called him the Montana of pandas, then the pandas rolled in there and just stomped the Sacramento State Hornets and, of course, some Grizz fans sent some Panda Express to his office on Monday morning because we don't let shit go. We do not let shit go over here, the Grizz Nation. Hey, can I just say, you know, what you did there, Ben, is you took the soccer conversation and you just flipped it immediately, right? I don't do this a lot. Could we just have five minutes where we're just talking about, great, the Irish football team are? Because on Sunday, if they lose, I'm going to flip again. I'm going to be like, fuck these guys, I can't believe.

They got my hopes up again. Alas. Let you get your fill of that with Ariel. Isn't he like the Nottingham Hill team or whatever? He's a toxic sports. Nottingham Hill. This man said, Nottingham Hill. You're thinking of the Julia Roberts film right now.

That was a good film, by the way. That was looking brilliant. Lads, there was some Wayans this morning. Thankfully, our championship bouts are all in place. and we have some video. It's our favorite part of the week. Let's look up men and pants. There's Islam Makershev.

He's got a little black eye there, very emaciated looking for a man who's moving up for whatever if you asked me. And here is JDM. He's got the hoop of shame out. You can see him taking off his undies there if you're looking down towards the feet area. He's getting them out one by one.

It's a difficult process. We've all been there. Very difficult after a few beers as well, you'll find. Here he comes, JDM. Looking good. Looking pretty good. Looking good. Valentina, you know, looks drawn out there.

I mean, she's been doing it and we'll talk about this later for 23 years, nearly Ben, so we can definitely talk about that later on Anjang. That's what you should look like if you're moving up away class. That is a very healthy fighter. Happy, looks happy, uh, flexing the biceps and there's actually some flex to it. We're not seeing the flesh tremble just at the, you're not seeing a heartbeat and it gets rib cage. whatever happened

back in the day they did have that like a hoop that they'd kind of bring up for people who needed to get all the way down

so they've like made improvements in that area right that was like a state of the art kind of device they were using there well it's way better

that it's a vast improvement on the old let's hold a like a beach towel up in front of them system because that one had a lot of problems first of all

Daniel Cormier learned how to help him stay upright I will say that he learned how to use it to take a couple pounds off real quick but also So we've seen people just drop that towel.

I have seen the genitalia of MMA fighters I did not want to see just because somebody couldn't hold the corner of the towel up. And this takes away a lot of the guesswork. Didn't they used to have it sponsored, though? There used to be like a sponsor logo on this thing. Did we find out that maybe no sponsor actually wants to be the, hey, we bring, this is, our name is on the thing that you bring out when somebody has to get shamefully naked on the scales? I think they did, actually. I actually have a bit of a story about this so obviously when I was working for

MMA fighting I was doing fights in Europe and I'd be putting up things on the MMA fighting socials before the Americans woke up and were able to actually be like hey Peter you shouldn't be posting that and so it's quite a busy affair if you've ever done it like you're taking video you're then uploading the video you're putting in the way

in results into the computer I was in Liverpool and you'll remember that Darren Till famously had a rough time him making ways against Stephen Wonderboy Thompson. I was at a very low, the stage is here where they're making waves. I'm down here. I'm taking my phone out and I'm like...

I think I see where we're going. I don't like it. And, uh, I posted for shit like that, Pizzi. I posted this and I went back to doing the way in. So again, I'm down here, down here. I think it was, I think it was Casey who ended up ringing me and being like, hey man,

take the tweet down. You can see his dick. I was like, oh, was he In England or was he in California? Because that's a long time for it to be. He's in California. He woke up and saw a foyerter's genitalia just there on the screen. So thankfully after that, they start sending a camera around with me because I shouldn't be trusted with technology and everybody learned their lesson. Poor Casey.

He's probably just woke up. He's sipping his coffee. He's looking at this and he's going, I should probably send pizza a note about this one. Spits his coffee out a little bit. The panic I had for the rest of the day, I was like, today's actually a harassment. these people like what type of charges are coming my way over this um let's talk about these fights lads um what i'm seeing is islam makashep genuinely surprised by the loving uh reception he's getting in new york city you surprised with this chuk um he seems to be very surprised i'm a little

surprised but it's only because i just don't like when we talk about islam i don't really get the same cult vibes I used to off of Habib, you know, because he had all those moments, he had a lot of weird moments and his humor started to really pop at some point in time when he started talking Cage side to like Dana White and things like that. So Habib was, if you're comparing him to Habib, Habib always had something going on that way. Whereas Islam, I don't know, maybe you, maybe I'm, I just haven't seen it a lot, but it doesn't really have that kind of charisma. And his fighting style, I don't, it's not like people, I mean, he has a lot of finishes, but it's not like he's been a fan favorite in that way. Like, it's not like people are like dying. You

must see TV type thing. So for him to get that kind of pop, it was a little surprising. But then again, I didn't, I guess I wasn't really anticipating it being a JDM crowd, right? I didn't think that it would be like that. So I wasn't sure how the reception would be. But it certainly felt like we were in Dagestan for just a minute there, didn't it? It did. It did. It's, it's, it's a, I agree with you in terms of the difference between him and Habib Habib had a lot of catchphrases, a lot of big media moments

On the flip side, Ben, I do like how it's, it seems to be needling JDM and just the right way. Like he's not getting to, he's not being like, hey, what the fuck guys? He's just, you can see him sitting there boiling over a little bit and they had a lovely face up yesterday where there was that kind of thing where

one doesn't want to look away. Oh, we've got to hear Andy, the legendary Andy. Look at the profile. Look at the profile on JDM. him like an old frying pan, you know? That's the last motherfucker you want to be. That tells you that that is a man who has never learned an easy lesson in his life, you know?

It only gets worse when you see him straight on. It's like that nose. Well, both of these guys' faces right now, you can tell, you know, these guys, they've been preparing to do a specific kind of job. And it shows on the mugs. You know, I, especially, I guess I'm not that surprise that people are into Islam-Makshed, because I think he is kind of an easy guy to like. He does benefit. I think he inherited a little bit of that Habib allure just because

people associate the two of them. MMA fans got really used to. We like there to be a dominant Dagestanii somewhere in the game. We get a little weird, I think, if there's too many of them at one time, you know, like people don't seem to love that. You can overdose. Yeah. But when there's one, when there's one guy, and especially I think that they respect the going up and wait, trying to become a champion in another division, all that kind of stuff. And honestly, if you talk to Islam, he's kind of a funny guy. He's a surprisingly funny guy, which not easy to do in another language. But I've talked to him before and I was just like, okay, this guy does have a little

more charisma and personality than you expect. So I guess I'm not that surprised to see people loving on him a little bit. JDM, though, there's no reason to boo JDM. That guy, there's nothing to dislike about that guy, really. He seems like such a nice guy. he really kind of cashed in a lottery ticket there when he got this unexpected title shot. I also think that there's a lot you could appreciate about a guy who started off his pro career with two straight losses and then was just like, all right, you know what?

I'm not losing another fight and just blazes a path all the way into the UFC and inside of three years is the UFC welto-weight champion. That's impressive. I think that's kind of the stuff that people usually connect with about this sport. Maybe it's just that he hasn't been up there at the top long enough yet for people to really connect with him and maybe it's that some MMA fans are just so programmed to always see it as a binary that if

I'm in favor of this guy, I must be absolutely against the other guy he's fighting. It doesn't really need to be like that I think, but I also think that maybe a little bit of that fan sentiment where everybody seems to be very pro-Islam and anti or, you know, even

mildly indifferent to JDM is kind of underscoring, like, it makes you think that it's a more one-sided matchup than I think it is. I think some people going to be surprised by J.D.M. in this fight. Where are you getting that from, Ben? Is this what you've seen in the Bilal Muhammad fight? Because obviously, there is a big jump-up, right, for JDM in terms of that fight. Like, obviously, Gilbert Burns. But then in Bilal, a lot of people are like, this is short notice he's going to struggle against Balal's wrestling. We did not

see a lot of Balal's wrestling that night. What are you seeing from that fight that makes you feel like he has a really good chance against Islam? I think the stuff that he does well is stuff that could give Islam problems. Like, he, he has a very, like, sneaky striking attack where, especially against a guy like Islam who is sort of, I don't want to say reckless, but he will go out there and throw it with you a little bit, even when he shouldn't. And he kind of has that in him, and it's tough to get out of people where if you land a good punch on him, he wants to get one back on you.

And JDM, I think when he can draw out strikes from you on purpose, where he knows, here it comes he's he's tough man he's going to land some shots back to you i think you saw that in that ball fight sometimes and i also think that that jump from 155 to 170 is no joke you know it's you're talking about 15 pounds there but also a lot of power and sometimes we see a guy where his style is so wrestling based and everything is built off of that and when you go up and wait and you can't bully those people around quite as easily sometimes then you end up having to strike more than you wanted, having to stand up there and try to set up your takedowns by landing punches. And I think that, I think by the end of the first round, you'll know kind of what the

story is going to be. If JDM can fend off a takedown or two, if he can get his striking game working. The big thing for him is going to be, can you go out there and still do your stuff without being so worried about Islam stuff that it shuts you down? Because we've also seen that, right, where somebody is a very good striker, they don't want to start throwing too many strikes. They don't want to start stringing punches together in combinations because they're always worried about that level change. They're always worried that the takedown is coming. And then you end up just not doing enough, which both leads you losing rounds, but also makes it easy for the other guy because he just gets to be entirely offensive. You can't do that, but you also need to have a plan for dealing with those takedowns.

I think JDM's going to come in here with some kind of plan. I think he's going to surprise some people and be a little bit better at dealing with the grappling game from Islam. But I also think there's going to be some moments here. in this fight where Islam is going to stand there and trade with him. And that's when JDM, I think, is maybe going to surprise him a little bit with the power difference at 170. You know, I saw you posted Ben. There's a little bit of an X factor, right? When you look at like the Craig Jones, you know, that situation where maybe we're squinting a little bit, but that first fight with Volcanowski was very interesting, where it was heading.

Certainly on the championship rounds got very, very interesting. And some of the things that were going on. And you're like, well, JDM being a bigger. guy who actually has pretty good chops in this area too, that could really play into this as a factor as well. And I do think you're right. If it's, you can imagine a scenario. And I mean, against Bolo Muhammad, I think you're right, he didn't use the wrestling as much as everybody anticipated. But the times he did, he was shut down. I mean, he had a couple moments of, a couple moments of success against J.D.M. But for the most part, most of the takedown attempts

half-hearted or not were kind of thwarted. And it was kept in his wheelhouse. He was kept where he wanted it. And you can kind of see that he's very expert at kind of dictating you into his space versus the opposite. So I think that if he's able to do any of that, he's certainly going to have some moments in this fight. I can't believe, to be honest with you guys, man, I just looked at the odds today. And on the main card, which is full of like very competitive fights, that's the biggest discrepancy in terms of a line. I think it was something like minus 300 for Islam in this fight. So that's a pretty big underdog for the guy holding the actual belt that's being come for here that that's that's a telling thing too so that chip on

his shoulder that we were talking about i think it i think he's happy happily bringing that to the cage with him the narrative in these situations can sometimes benefit the underdog because of how we're seeing the crowd beforehand how jeered up they are suddenly like if he's having success like ben said if he starts stuffing early takedowns and we're hitting round three and jdm hasn't been down yet suddenly it becomes a very different affair and this is the kind of fight that will make him if he out with a win over Islam Makashchev, a guy who effectively, he's moving up on every contender

is almost discounting the fact that JDM is in this fight. Like you hear Ian, Gary, Sean Brady, all these guys talking about this and they're like, well, Islam's here now. You know, it's a different era. Not to mention Islam was kind of waiting, remember on the sideline?

Like, hey, wait, let me see who wins this fight. Oh, J-Derm? Yeah, I'm coming. I'm coming up there. You know what I mean? I know it was like because he knows Belal, but like, it does affect you when a guy's like, if you win,

I'm coming for you, you know? Yes. Yeah. So I think he could be made from this, but just seeing that way in this morning, like, you're kind of, every time someone moves up, and I'm sure we'll talk about it with Zhang later on, moving up to fight Valentina, but when someone moves up, you just kind of say, they're going to have better cardio, you know, because they, they didn't have to cut as much weight. Like, if you were to ask me, Ben, who's had the rougher session there last night trying to

make that weight? It looks like Islam. Well, he has said that making 155 has gotten tougher and tougher on him. So, you know, this maybe you're, maybe you're, maybe you all. also go in thinking the weight cut is going to be a little easier because it ought to be you got an you're spotted an extra 15 pounds and then it doesn't always end up going the way you think it's going to go. I also, you know, I don't want to take too much from just what we see in 15 seconds of a guy standing on a scale because, man, I have been in some UFC weigh-ins and watch some guys

get up on the scale where I go, I don't, we need to make sure somebody goes back to the hotel room with him to make sure that he doesn't just lay down and die. Like he looks terrible right now. And I've definitely come away from some way-ins and change my mind. I've been like, okay, I know who's winning this fight because somebody looked absolutely awful up there. But then by Saturday night, they're a different person. They're completely rehydrated and reborn, and it doesn't seem to bother them all. So you never know exactly how that part is going to play out. What I'm really interested in seeing is how the difference in punching power at Wiltaway.

Because we've seen a lot of guys where they go up and both their power doesn't come with them quite to the extent that they expect. Like, they, they're landing the punches that used to rock people at their weight class and people are shrugging it off at the higher weight class. And then on the other end up eating a shot and going, well, okay, that was a little heavier than what I was expecting. And I think that, too, when you look at that Ballal fight, I mean, I know we all looked back on it afterwards and we're like, Bilal should have wrestled more.

He did try to wrestle a little bit. You have to remember, these guys aren't robots. They're not video game characters in there. If you go in there and you get punched in your nose, you know, you're, you're, you're bleeding, you get your bell rung a little bit, it's going to make you kind of worse at the other stuff. It's going to diminish you a little bit. And so I think if JDM can find some of those moments and get to Islam early and fend off some of those early takedowns, then I think that he has a really good shot in his fight. You also know when you're going up against a guy like Islam,

though, you tell yourself in camp, probably going to get taken down at some point. Your plan has to be, what do you do to get back up without exposing yourself? and without getting into that Dagestani rent cycle that those guys like to get you in where they're just they're just they're pulling a little bit ahead and that's the thing that will just it'll exhaust you grappling wise when you're when you're falling behind somebody you're just always playing catch up you're always dancing to their tune

but also you're falling a little bit behind you're falling a little bit behind he's just kind of pulling ahead of you in the grappling game that's when you do something stupid trying to make up that ground trying to all at once get back up or all at once get a position back that's when you give him an opening and that's when Islam is really great at seizing the smallest opening and submitting people. J.D.M has to not do that, but he also, you can't stay there and work your guard against a guy like Islam. You're just slowly losing. Do you think one of you guys still look at Islam sort of in the shadow of Habib? And if so, this fight now that he's going up, like, say he goes right through and wins this title. And you have all these dudes stacking up to like, you know, fight for the title behind him. Is this the big moment for him for Islam to basically be like, hey, I'm my own, I'm my own man,

I'm my own champion, and I'm doing my own piece of history here. Yeah, 100% I think. Yeah. And I think maybe that's part of why he wanted to do it, whether he is entirely conscious and willing to admit that or not. But like, don't you think like some part of him went, all right, I don't want to be Habib's little brother kind of for forever. What did Habib never do is leave the weight class and go after another title.

I do that. And then everybody's talking about Islam just as one of the great. without having to mention the Habib connection? I don't know, man. I'm kind of in... I think I'll always be in the Habib walked so Islam could run kind of situation. Like, I just, I don't...

I think he benefited so much from Habib. And we even mentioned at the top of the show. And I'm not for a second saying Islam isn't fantastic. I think he's brilliant that he, you know, among the best fighters in the world. And this will probably put him back pound for pound number one. if you didn't have them there already, I just don't think I can ever separate the two.

I don't know if that's disregarding anything about Islam, but I don't think you can ever speak about Islam without speaking about Habib, I guess is my point, Chuck. Yeah, well, I mean, I think they'll forever be tight at the hip and I don't think they want to be different than that, but just in the case of like their own legacy, you know, because I feel like at some point, you know, you can look at the body of work that Habib had

and you can make a judgment based on what he's able to do, which was very impressive, right, 29 and 0? And barely, like, I think he lost, like, one round in his whole career. I mean, that's so dominant that it's almost unparalleled. But then you get a guy who's moving up a weight class and say he's able to be there for a while. It just feels like you'd be doing an injustice not to kind of look at Islam as his own man at some point. Yeah, it could look like an absolute hater. Like, come, like Sunday, if Islam goes in there and strangles J.D.M.

in 10 seconds. I was like, yeah, no, it was wrong. I was completely wrong once again. You know, that's one of the things that when you talk about Habib going 29 and, and like hard to do a lot better than that, right? And it always has made me chuckle to think of Islam talking about how those guys used to rib him a little bit. And the thing that they would rib him for is like, L.

Well, you have lost one fight. You know, like you're not even undefeated, you loser. you know what it was that's a real thing though man like when umar lost like that was one of the first things I wanted to ask him was sort of like well how do you kind of you know walk back into that gym

without a bag in your head you know it's like yeah and those stand out now for the losing for the losing aspect and if you ever seen those guys with each other and the way they talk to each other and stuff yeah they don't have like well he's hurting right now we should take it easy

on him kind of mindset you know they think well The way I will help my friend is by mercilessly needling him about this thing until he grows stronger. Yeah. We've better talk about some of the other fights in this guy. There's a huge fight for the flyaway title. Ben wrote a brilliant article about Valentina Shavashenko. That blew me away.

He set me up for it in the article. He says, you're not going to believe this. And I'm like, come on. You said that to me as well. And then I'm like, oh, fuck. I was not expecting this. Ben, laid us out for us here. I think a lot of people don't understand the legacy and the gravity of what Valentina is doing in this immense career.

Yeah. Well, I mean, just when you look at the longevity and the consistent success, because she started fighting as a teenager in 2003. She started, she turned, she had her pro-MMA debut that year and also was fighting as a kickboxer that year. And when you look at the other women who started around that time or even a couple of years, after that time, they're all retired. There's pretty much nobody who's still around from that era. Like, she spanned several different eras of women's MMA and not only is just like still

around, which would be an accomplishment in itself to be here, you know, 22 years later, still in this sport, still doing it. But she's still the best 125 pounder in the world and has been for a long time. That's crazy. We don't see people, you know, we've seen people who start very young in this sport, and usually they also burn out pretty young. If you start as a teenager, usually by the time you're 30 or so into your early 30s, it's starting to wind down for you. And that just hasn't been the case. Even in the last few years, I would say, last maybe five fights, we've seen it look like Valentina is slowing down a little bit.

But she makes up for it with just the well-rounded game, the experience, the kind of veteran savvy that she has, where even when she is not physically overwhelming people anymore, she's still finding ways to win these fights. And that, I think, is so impressive to just be able to do it at that level for that long because it's like she started fighting, fought for 10 years, and then the UFC had its first women's fight. 10 years is an entire career. 10 years is a good career in MMA.

There's lots of people who have great careers who don't make it 10 years in this sport before something or other drives them out of it. She did 10 full years before the UFC, even said, all right, I guess maybe there's something to, and it wasn't even her division, the one that she's currently been holding down. It was a different division. And then they finally get around to like adding more divisions and everything. And she had an entire career, the UFC opened up, and then she has this entire career where she moves on up to the title, captures the title, holds the title down, becomes the most dominant force in the history of

that division in women's MMA and is still there, still there now. That's incredible. I mean, you just, you look at some of the names who started well after her, had great MMA careers and have now been retired for years. Like Ronda Rousey started, I think our first amateur fight was 2010. So seven years after Valentina Shavchanko's debut, Ronda Rousey is now like a ghost who shows up every once in a while to haunt the halls of MMA. Meanwhile, Valentina Shepchenko still here, still doing it at the very highest level. And it's kind of, it's wild because a lot of time.

if somebody's still in the game who's been in it a long time we look at them as compromised people a little bit like man they're chinny they've been around a long time I don't know they're just hanging around I've never really had that thought with her like yes she had that fight with Santos

I think it was wasn't that the one that was like very close it was like a coin flip in the end and I was like this is probably her downfall and then of course the Grasso series where you see her actually lose but then she comes back stronger and stronger and then the fight I thought for sure that she would lose against Furrow

she shows up in the most fierce form. I mean, like you said, Ben, like with this veteran savvy, like never gets, never gets out of it, you know, takes control of the fight at some point. And then it's just her fight at the end. You're just like, okay, wait a minute. She's still doing this. And here we go again. I think a lot of people, you know, the sexy pick here is going to be for Whaley to go in

there and win this thing. But, dude, at this point, Shevchenko has kind of proven again and again and again that she's going to show up that complacency that kind of you're mentioning that would come with 20 years or even 10 years. years has never showed up for her and I feel like there's something I don't know if it's just that maybe she has she's been kind of a nomadic presence in MMA like she does travel and goes to different camps I think she does different things to kind of to keep her mind sharp on it and to stay hungry with it but whatever she's doing man she should be studied because she's the she is

the example right of like somebody who can do this and still be thriving at what is she like 37 38 now 37 yeah well I mean it shouldn't be happening but it's a crazy it's a crazy thing in that Your article points it out If you haven't checked it out Like go read that And then you get the full context of that And you're like my God This is like a miracle of the fight game right here

I think it's something you see from Older fighters who manage to stay relevant Later on And a good example of this Is somebody like Alistar Overeem Where we watched him come up As a really young beanpole Kind of fighter over there in pride

Then he became the monster Uberim Had some help It seemed Horsemate Are you implying? I'm talking about horse meat, man. He ate that horse meat. Of course, of course.

Protein values are insane on horse meat. You don't even know, man. He got to a point where he was just physically such a force in the heavyweight division that that was kind of all he needed. He was just blazing through people. And then he got a little older. He lost some of that. He was no longer just like such a overwhelming physical power. But by that point, he had gotten so much smarter as a fighter.

It added so many little tricks, so many little ways he had that he could pull out a win, even when it wasn't looking good for him. You know, he didn't maintain that consistent of a success as Valentina Shepchenko has. She's kind of on another level. But it's the similar kind of thing where you can see it, if you're going to stick around in this game, at some point, the speed is going to start to go, the reflexes are going to start to go. And if that was what you were relying on, if that's all you had and you didn't add new tools and you're not capable of adapting and becoming a different version of yourself later in the career, you're not going to last. How many fighters have we seen where it's just like they hit a point and then they dropped off a cliff. Chuck Liddell, I think is kind of the perfect example where it was just like he was getting by on these few things. He didn't really grow past that point. And then when those things started to

desert him even a little bit, that was it. Then he could do nothing but lose, it seemed. And so you need to have that ability if you're going to stick around as long as somebody like Valentina Shibchenko has and to be as successful as she has. And that's what I think makes for a really interesting fight here is because Zhang Wiley comes in incredibly well-rounded fighter herself and like very dynamic, very just the speed, the explosiveness that she has. If you end up in a fast-paced fight with Zhang, I think Valentina's in trouble. I think she needs to slow this fight way down. She needs to use her size, use that power and really grind one out here. I don't think you want to be in a quick firefight against somebody when your skills are starting to desert you in that area a little

more than hers are. Did we anoint, uh, like Amanda Nunes, the goat of women's MMA too soon? Well, this is the question you asked me in the, the roundtable chook. And both of you guys have tied me in nuts on this fight. Because first of all, I was with the sexy pick. I was with shying. And then I, you know, I get the round table question sent by yours, truly the man in the hat. And I'm like, who's like, are these two women fighting? for goat status. Then I read Ben's article with this tremendous story about Valentina and how long she's been around and how she's seemingly like

you know when you're looking at your car and the fuel gauge is down to red and you're like, oh, I'm going to need to get some fuel soon, but Valentina just fucking keeps going. You know, no need to top this baby up. She's going to keep going. I'm all over the place, but I do believe that you're correcting this. I do believe that there is an argument for the goat. Is Nunes's situation in Jeopardy Chook? I was one of those people who, I think it was really the, the Chris, going up to 145 beating Chris Cyborg. To me, I was like, okay, because for the longest time, we were trying to put, you know, Rao C, maybe, or anybody in that space, you try to put them against a cyborg and it never really happened.

Well, we saw somebody go up and actually beat Cyborg, and I was like, okay, as far as I'm concerned, she's the goat. But if you take the bigger body of work, if you really look at it, it's a closer, I think it's a closer examination than just kind of like pointing to. one thing like this. Shevchenko lost twice against Nunes. One of them was a split decision, but she was the one kind of coming up in wait and challenging. And to me, that's like, okay, that would be in some people's minds maybe the, well, this is determined who's better.

But I don't know if that's quite as easy as that when you look at their whole careers. You know, going back, Amanda Nunes had plenty of loss. It was not plenty. She did have a few, though, early in her career, Alexis Davis and people like that way back in the day and then when she lost against Pena she was able to avenge it well it was sort of the same thing with Shevchenko with Grasso right like she gets beat

And she shows up in a better form she should have won the rematch And instead it goes to a third fight And she wins going away And now she's backed it up again against Fioro Which I thought was like going to be the downfall for her So I think that the It seems I guess the gap that I thought existed Between Nunes and the rest

When you really look at it It's way narrower especially Like right here, because now she's about to take on somebody else in her era, who right now, I think, is the women's pound for pound goat on our rankings, right? Like, and Zhang Wali, if she's able to beat her and retain the title, she belongs in that conversation. If she's not the goat, she belongs in that conversation now. I mean, the thing that I think really made the biggest impression with us with Amanda Nunes was that she went up and beat Cyborg. Cyborg, who was a terrifying force. People, and by people, I mean,

Jermaine Durandami, would rather abdicate the title. She's people. Then even defend it against Cyborg. She would rather say, you know what, take the title back. I enjoyed my 15 minutes as champion. I don't. Someone who knocked out of mine before, by the way,

in a fight. Didn't want any part of Cyborg was such a terrifying force in MMA. Everybody wanted to avoid Cyborg as much as they could. And there was plenty of ways for Amanda Nunes to avoid her. She did not need to do that fight. She went up instead of being the one who is accepting the challenge from a lighter fighter coming up and wait to meet her. She went up there and beat Cyborg at her own game, went out there, stood toe to toe with her, knocked her out. That's where she got to be the goat.

And we never seen anything like that before. Now, I still think Valentina, the longevity, the success over so many years to just being so, dominant at the weight class for so many years, like, she deserves certainly to be in that conversation. But I do think it's a little different to be beating a great champion who's coming up and wait to meet you where you are than it is to be the one going up. I mean, honestly, I think if Jen wins, I think she's on a way to having a claim to being one of the greats of women's internet because this is a big deal. She's cleaned out her division at this point So much that people were just like, could you please go up?

Because we just, we don't have anything else for you to do here right now. You know, like let the division rebuild itself in your absence. And maybe later you could come back down and we'll have somebody who feels like a credible challenger. We just talked about that, that McKenzie Dern fight as being not that compelling of a title fight because we all know who the best 115 pounder in the world is. And if she can go up there and beat somebody who's been such a dominant champion at a higher weight class. I think that that is way more impressive than Shevchenko winning this fight and just

just sort of maintaining her position. I will say, too, that Amanda Noon is if she feels slighted by anything we're saying she's, if she goes, it does the same thing again to Kayla Harrison. Yeah. Then we all got to shut up. We just got to shut up. I know we got to shut our faces. Yeah. Is that, I mean, it is though a mark of how great Amanda New is was that we never agree on anything at this sport when it comes to goat conversations. And everybody kind of agreed on that one. Everybody says, yeah, there's, there's no argument to be made on that. Amanda Nunes is it. And so it's a credit to both Jang and Shepchenko that they could even get us to reopen the conversation at this point. Don't tell any of this to Pizzi. He still thinks that

meet Bohmali is number one. Anyway, Pete's, what were you saying? She should be in the conversation, is all I'm saying. That's a brilliant fight. Two great fights. We've talked about them, but that's the most interesting thing for me about this card is this welterweight shit that has going down and there's so many guys that could put themselves in the spot and we're not forgetting about Ian Gary and Bilal Mohammed that's happening next week in Doha that's up for grabs too

recency bias is alive in this sport that could definitely happen but we've got Brady Morales Edwards Pratches all these guys and who is Usman talking about well it's none of those guys let's hear from the former Lightway King or Lightway King whatever way we want to look

at it. Shatley I think we will know one of the contender and why I say Osman because he's the biggest name in Walter Reed who most defend the belt is the big name and he's

in good position right now he beat Berkeley who is one of the contender also good luck to you well lads is it just me or is this one of the most irritating things that could have happened in the lead up to this card because I was furious

I saw I'm talking about this last week and I was like surely not. Surely he's on the wind-up. This is the classic Maca-Cheff humor that we've heard so much about. But no, he's doubled down now. Chuck, tell me. Come on. Well, dude, you've got a setup at Madison Square Garden on one of the biggest pay-per-views of the year where you have basically a welterweight Grand Prix setup. With the kind of historic fight, right, like at the top of this, and you have two big fights right under it where the winners could qualify at this point

for a title shot. Then you have another one next week. Is it next week? The one that's a guitar with uh so then you've got that fight so you have three fights within a week that could produce a title challenger so and ozman is nowhere in that picture so it's kind of introducing a foreign agent to this that doesn't belong into this picture um i think it's i mean i i think it just shows that he's kind of tone deaf on the division he's also not the biggest name in the division right now right like carmaro ozman i don't really feel like if people are paying attention even casuals i'm pretty sure that you're not the same you're they're not talking about Kamara Usman at this point.

Ben, are they in fact talking about? No. No one is. I don't know what. Except for us. Yeah. I just,

hey, he's entitled to his opinion. That's what I would say. Everybody else gets to have an opinion. So he obviously does too. But no, you're not going to shoehorn him back into this conversation at this point. We are,

we are simply not having it. Don't you think Kamarer Usman's like, wow, me? hell yeah you know but the problem is Usman I have something coming out out about this on Uncrown like if you look into this Usman laid this all out like last month

he was like this is what I'm doing and then you look at who is their manager and you then see Dana White appearing on the Suhudo and Usman podcast saying you're the greatest well to wait of all time never mind GSP and I know Chuck you were you were on that Kool-Lade for a bit too you thought he

was in a place to do that but I'm just I was going to sip the Kool-Lay I never got a round it. Yeah, that's right. You were just put the ice cubes in and the little umbrella and you're like, I might go there. Just a quick one, lads. At the end of all of this, this well-to-way cluster that we're talking about, this championship contender situation, who do you think will be the next person to fight for the title? We'll go with Chuck first on this one. Out of this little cluster, of course, Edwards, Pratches, all these lads. I think if Ian Gary goes and does work next week he probably gets the shot that's my man it's one of those weird things like you could

make the case this is one of those rare situation where you could make the case like if brady goes in there beats morales or well he just went through the guy there was nobody else to face he's already earned a shot now he just went through like a you know this blazing 26 year old phenom he should deserve the shot right and if carlos protest gets another knockout you're like well why aren't we putting him in there because the dude destroys everybody you know um but i think Ian Gary, just given, if you look at just kind of the favors, I guess he's done in the OSCE, and never saying no, including against Shavcott, who we just pushed aside. And that's something else too. You look at Shepcott and you're like, we're talking about a guy who was

supposed to have a title shot in December of last year. And he's, whenever he comes back, he may be fifth or sixth in line because it's so deep in that division right now. That's a, that's a nutty thing just in itself. But I think once the air clears, if Ian Gary wins and he does so emphatically that he he ends up being the guy man man where are we going with this yeah i mean i think that if all things were equal that you know if everybody if you thought about what's the situation of everybody here in the picture got a win ian gary would be the guy the ufc would be most likely to pick just because it seems like he commands a little bit more fan attention he could bring that big fight feeling with him but you also have to remember the way these

things tend to go in the ufc is not a simple matter of who's how you're not a simple matter of who's highest ranked or who deserves to be the next guy up for the title. It's a combination of factors. A lot of time it comes down to who is available on the date that we have circled on the calendar. And there's a lot of things that could happen here. There's a lot of different ways you could come out of this fight. This two weekends of fights where somebody has a great win but needs to be on the shelf

a little bit. They get banged up. They get an injury. They can't turn right around and fight when the UFC might want there to be in the next title fight. And so we just go to the next guy on the list. or maybe they just want more time. Like we've seen that so many times in this sport where the myriad factors are in play

here. It's not just a matter of who looked the best, who had the best singular performance or finish. It's always a combination of like, what do, what do the fans say? Are people excited about them? And are they available? Are they willing to pick up the phone and say yes? You know who end up being available? Come on Rousman.

I mean, you look at how, look at how JDM. got there was being available and saying yes. True. And like, so you're just going to talk around this band. You're not going to make a pick. This is what it's about. You need to give us a fucking name. Okay. This all is. Oh, if you'll recall. Tell me. You're going to start talking about Montana State football here in a second. How dare you Montana State? The Bobcats? Get the fuck out of here. Sorry about that. We'll edit that out, Ben. I'm sorry about that. Fix it in post, Pizzi. I think I do, I mean, the Sean Brady Morales fight, I think is super interesting.

And that's a really tough one to call. I'm picking Brady, but I think that that's a tough one. That one could be really exciting. But I also could see those guys beaten the absolute hell out of each other. And so whoever comes out of that needs a little bit of a break. I do think that if everybody were healthy and you could pick from somebody, the UFC would probably most likely pick Ian Gary. Just because, like, he gets our attention. Whether we like it or not, he can get people talking about Ian Gary.

The fact that Morales is fighting in this, like, a number, what is the number eight, something? like that against the number two, Madison Square Guard. If he goes in there and does work, if he blows away like he's been doing, if he does that, I mean, that's another conversation, isn't it? Because now you've got a 26-year-old dude that looks like a phenom that you could plug into that situation, and you would have a very good title fight, too. I think he's going to have a big night, but listen, a lot of people who have big weeks and a certain member of Islam Makashv's team, his name is Magamad Zaynikov.

But because of his nickname, and thank you to Oscar Losef, our wonderful, Jews for explaining this to old Petey Carol here beforehand. Because his nickname is Chanko, the way the Dagestani Lilt goes, Islam was describing this man's name and people thought he was saying John Pork. John Pork, an internet meme, a human, it looks, appears to be a human, but there's John Porch. He's got a birth defect, what? Is Adamant? He's still a real person, but we've had, this Zynekov.

guy, or John Pork, as the people I call him, has become a cult hero. And I believe we have an image of him walking among his people yesterday at the way. And there he is. I mean, well, I mean, go. I mean, when you go back and four, oh, come on now. This feels unfair to do this to the man. Ben, you have some insights on John Pork, don't you? Well, I was just saying, I think that, especially in MMA, you have to think of the

entire MMA community as essentially a big middle school, a big violent middle school. And anybody who's gone to middle school will tell you, the worst thing you can do if people are starting to give you a nickname that you don't like is tell people to stop calling you that. Then it's over. It's absolutely over at that point. They are never going to stop calling you. That's your nickname then. And, you know, I have a daughter who's in middle school who's in seventh grade.

and hearing her tales from middle school reminds me how easy it is to get a nickname and how difficult it is to get rid of a nickname. There is a kid that she goes to school with who everybody calls cake pop. You know why? Because one day after school he walked with his friends to the nearby Starbucks inside a grocery store and in addition to whatever silly drinks they were getting, he ordered a cake pop. delicious little cake pop sits there looking all like bright

and pastel color and everything he was like I'd like a cake pop his friends trying to be tough guy seventh grade boys are like cake pop you're gonna eat a cake pop they told somebody else at school by the end of the week he was cake pop that man's gonna be cake pop

until they graduate he's gonna come back from the he's gonna come back for like a 40 year reunion and people are gonna be like hey it's cake pop there's no getting away from it and the fact that he does not like the nickname only increases people's desire to continue calling in that. Plus, it's fun to say to just call another human being cake pop.

The same is kind of true for John Pork. You're not getting rid of it, man. You're not getting rid of it. Can we see John Pork one more time? I just want to... Which one? Exactly. There is.

Oh, wait a minute. Where's the funnel? No, wait a minute. This is when he was in Ireland at the Cliffs of Moor. It's beautiful. We're going to go and hit our forest out of the day. We'll be back to discuss some boxing news. some Rousey V home 10 year anniversary,

and we're going to be giving you the picks. We're closing in. It's nearly the year end. We have two more pay-per-views, and we have some picks to make. See you shortly. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you enjoyed our UFC 322 preview.

We'll be talking about that again at the back of the show, but there is a lot happening this weekend. It is the rematch between Chris Eubank Jr. and Connor Ben, and Ariel O'Anne is telling me there's not all that much interest over there. Chuck, are you feeling the love for this rematch? No, not really. You know, I always try to qualify this a little bit because, you know, generally speaking, when you have a big pay-per-view like this, your attention then sways into this, you know, the world of MMMA and it kind of stays there. So sometimes a boxing event will be placed at the same time and it gets a little shut out.

But generally speaking, I mean, I've heard plenty about the Jake Paul, you know, the Anthony Joshua thing. So it's not like there can't be some, you know, some things that bust in and command your attention. I don't feel like I've really heard much about this fight outside of a couple of the boxing people that I follow and kind of seeing what's going on with that. But honestly, the first, like the fight that happened, what was it in April? I had conversations about it with people.

It was like beforehand, I haven't had any of those going into this one, which is surprising considering that it's a big rematch. There was 70,000 people at that one and like the way it went down where people saw it two ways. You would think there would be a lot more eyes on this thing. You know why? You know why there's not more eyes on it?

What's it? You got to hit somebody with an egg to get attention. That is true, though. That is true. You go up there and you slap somebody with an egg, we go, okay, let's keep an eye on this one. Something big is going to happen. The egg thing was so big. I remember that the betting segment that Chad Dundas and I do on our Friday co-main event podcast, he bet on the fight without realizing it was still like two months away.

He just got so wrapped up in the egg discourse. He was like, yeah, he was like, yeah, I got five. bucks down on this side and I was like you realize that's not this weekend right like he had to wait to find out whether he won the bed or not I don't think he did but yeah like you need that kind of stuff to help you get attention help you stand out in the crowded combat sports landscape there's a lot going on lately you know we got all the the Jake Paul drama and you honestly especially this is a good UFC 32 card and there have there have not been a ton of great UFC cards that's on paper where the entire lineup looks good.

Like this one passes the the test where I am hearing from casuals. I'm hearing from friends of mine who haven't really watched the UFC in a while. And, you know, we're just texting earlier today about weekend plans. And one of them looked at the fight card and was like, oh, shit, I didn't realize this is happening. Can I come over? Can I come over and what? Like, that's the test. It's like when people who know that you get, you can expense your pay-per-view costs want to come over.

Yeah. When the moochers start showing back up out of the woodwork. When they want to come over here. bring a six pack of domestic beer and be like, we're good, you know, we're going to sit on the couch? Like, that's when you know it's a good fight card. That hasn't happened in a while. It's happened this weekend.

And if you're trying to promote a boxing thing and nobody has even hit anybody with an egg, it's a little tough. Pizzi, what about over there, though? Is it moving? It is. Yeah. It's, it's not the first fight, but it is being driven mostly by Talk Sport and Chris Eubank,

senior showing up on there and spinning a few yarns with the controversial host, Simon Jordan, who always gives them back and forth. I'm sure you've seen him popping up before. But look at it. You ain't here. He's such a showman, the dad. And I can understand the frustration this one must have with like every time I'm in this big moment, here comes dad.

Literally stepping in front to like. I know. He's the greatest. It's the crowd you out of the camera. Ben, Ben, if you think, I saw you saying something about poetry being dead. It's not dead with that man. Like he can recite all kinds of poems for you. He is some brain for...

He's crazy good at that, man. It's insane. You spoke about Joshua there earlier, Chuck. You referenced this thing. And it's really heating up. I know you guys have said like the U-Bank Ben thing hasn't picked up over here, but basically they weighed in today and all the conversation where Heron is about Joshua. Has he signed this thing?

And the way Huron is acting, and I was talking to Ariel about this this morning, we were kind of sending clips back and forth, The way Heron is being so defensive makes me feel like something's going to happen here. And I know a lot of people are like, I gave you the pull my pants down. Jake Paul referenced last week. I will not do it again.

It's fine. But I think a lot of people I think it's going to happen again. Like he's going to talk all this shit. That's what I'm wondering. It's not going to happen. But I'm seeing Heron being so defensive about something Garrett A. Davy said on Ariel's show about it being a travesty and things like that.

And I'm like, he would not get this animated about this if it wasn't at least a possibility. Are you buying it? Ben, folks. Do you think Joshua could potentially fight Jake Paul on this mega Netflix card that people are talking about? It's one of those, I doubt that you will, but I'm intrigued that you may kind of things for me. Because it is like on paper and in theory exactly the kind of thing that I think a lot of us have been waiting to see happen with the whole Jake Paul experiment. He's been so good at just picking the right targets for himself, keeping himself relatively safe. He's also

learn some hard lessons about like, hey, when you go up against real boxers, people, A, don't care as much as you think that they're going to. And B, that's when you're going to mess around and lose some fights. And yet a lot of us, a lot of people, I think, especially came out of that Mike Tyson one, being angry on Mike Tyson's behalf, on the sport of boxing's behalf and being like, I want to see this guy humbled. I want to see someone get one back for, for Mike and for the sport of boxing itself. And so Joshua fits that bill in every possible way. It's the kind of fight where you look at it and you go, I'm concerned that Jake Paul might spend a long, long time in the hospital if he were to fight, Anthony Joshua. And that's what you might need if you're Jake

Paul and you're trying to get people interested anymore because it's been kind of diminishing returns in a lot of these fights. And it was going to be diminishing returns in that Tank Davis fight for sure. People did not ever really get interested in that one. It just seemed silly and not the fun kind of silly. This is the kind of thing where people would go, all right, I'm willing to have my pants down in the public square or whatever it is, Pici says about it. I'm willing to take that wrist. I'm doing it

anyway. I'm willing to go for it again just because I think there's such a good chance that they fight in early December, Jake Paul drinks Christmas dinner through a straw, and I want to see it. And like, and I want to see it. That'll get people in the door. That should be used on the promo. That is amazing.

What a juxtaposition of perception that would be too, because then all of a sudden you'd have Joshua when knocking out like Francis and Ghanu and uh and Jake Paul they would almost be like the swinging perception of oh yeah he's not he's just beating these guys who are just kind of like moonlighting in the ring the one the other like common sentiment i heard being floated when this fight was first being mentioned it reminded me of your column chuck about the paranoia setting in around uh fight betting on if UFC fights are being coming under the scrutiny so many people looked at this matchup and i was one of them and they kind of went are we reaching a gentleman

agreement here because you're looking at it and you're going, Jake Paul's not dumb. Jake Paul, he's a silly little guy, but he's not a fool. And this would seem to be foolish behavior to go in there with Anthony Joshua unless you kind of had an agreement like, hey, you can make millions and just carry me a little bit. Let's give them a show. People will be able to see that that's happening, but I think people, a lot of people, just because of how we feel about sports gambling, the just pervasive reach of sports gambling, how we feel about what's going on

and some combat sports now it would be on people's minds they would look at that fight and they'd be like you're going to need to prove to us that this fight isn't fixed in some way or if you took Floyd and Mayweather I mean if you put that Floyd

and Mayweather and McGregor and put it you just extract the exact same fight and put it into our times right now that would look a lot different wouldn't it just the fact that he was being carried for the first few rounds yeah I mean in boxing it happens but it's like he won the first rounds what are we talking about

I'm right. You're right, though, I think, Chuck, I think if you, the current climate right now, if you had that Mayweather-McGregor fight right now, people will be watching it and be like, well, Mayweather clearly took over four and a half rounds on this one. All his entourage must have had that parlay down there. There must be picking the round that they're going to end it in, you know, just because we all have that on our minds because it feels like we're seeing it. We're not seeing the response be quite as, like, vehement as, Dana White likes to claim that it would be. And so when you see something like a matchup like this, it feels like if you, if Anthony Joshua doesn't come right out there trying to knock his head literally off his shoulders, then people are going to be like, all right, we, the only reason we agreed to do this fight was because we reached an agreement that we won't really try to hurt each other in there. Now, I haven't said that, that plus 800 that they put on Jay Paul, not bad, tempting, right? Values O with them.

I do think like the while I do agree with you about the gambling thing I think it would just destroy Joshua if he came in and we were like

this guy is especially with the fury fight which you know everyone's hoping will bookend this great generation of UK heavy weights

like that's still at play and if he went in and he did some bullshit like that with Jake Paul you've destroyed yourself like boxing people

in the UK don't fucking forgive like they are it is it is a like the way they kind of would look on that would would completely destroy joshua and the public eye so that's the one bit of doubt that i have about that situation occurring if it did i think it would be

the death of everything i think it'd be the end of jake paul and the netflix getting involved with that kind of shit like with tyson it's more forgivable because like he's 60 you know what i mean like he is as ben always says he is literally showing you his ass he did have he did have his pants down you know uh what else can you ask for but uh speaking about big reactions in the UK, absolutely shocked today to hear, and I think the ring broke the story, Joseph Parker, testing positive for cocaine, tested

on the day of the fight. Jeez. And this is when he failed. Like, it just, like, Joshua obviously trains in Ireland, and he trains with Andy Lee, who was considered one of the most noble sportsmen in the country. It's just, it's just bizarre someone like

Parker, who would be, like, for the MMA fans, he would be, he'd be akin to, like, an aspirin, a real every man, a real, you know, open book and gives everyone a lot of his time, feels like a salt at the air kind of guy. I'm really, really surprised by this and I doubt it's the last we're going to hear about it. Are you shocked to hear this show? I am shocked to hear it. I mean, and it's not like cocaine only associates with bad guys, you know, but it's like he doesn't really fit the profile of that. I was thinking about that man. Like when John Jones, he was trained with John Jones out in Albuquerque, I think it was for the steep. Wait a second. So he was fighting. He was John Jones Oh no I want to be done No but I mean in all honesty

It is it is a little shocking Because he has like he seems like He's one of those clean cut guys Completely like everything I've ever seen Or heard about I've never talked to him in person But like just everything I've seen about him That's like whoa that is a complete You know that's a complete misguidance

Of whatever you think about him right I like how Chuck started off his comments by basically being like, well, we all like a little bit of cocaine every night. Yeah, from time to time, I mean, the bugger sugar's not going to hear. We're not bad guys. You wake up with a hangover, you got to get to weigh them so you know, what are you going to do? Bloss a few rails? I mean, I do think with his pinky nails were always very long.

I knew that, though. With cocaine, the thing is that it's not like marijuana that stays in your system for so long after you've used it. And so with something like this, people are going to be like, wait, so when? when was the last time that you were doing some cocaine? Like that's the part that's going to like set off alarms for people where they're just kind of going to be like, that starts to seem like a problem. Like, and not just a, you know,

we had a wild weekend in Vegas one time kind of thing. Yeah, it's weird. I'm sure I have a feeling some tainted supplements will be brought before. Who's putting cocaine in the tainted supplements, though? But this is the thing, right? with the tainted supplement thing I'm like Adesico came

I'm just saying on this level right like that doesn't even watch because Parker like is is at the top of the game like he's he's fighting Fabio Wardley in this fight and he would have nearly been guaranteed

a fight against Ousick had he won and then you're kind of kind of telling me like on the day of the fight if it was this if this is the way that's going to go on the day of fight he had a supplement he never had before in his life and was like oh must have been in this you know like it just I'm looking

forward to seeing how it shakes out, feels a bit weird, but Lord knows, who do we truly know in this world, guys? That's the exact sort of thing, though, that waits to happen for Friday, just for your show, Pizzi. That's exactly. It is. It absolutely is. They're like, listen, Ariel's not going to be able to handle this one.

Throw it at the Irish man. He'll catch it. But it is the 10-year anniversary of Rousey v. Home this week, and Chuck, believe it or not, he's wrote another brilliant article about this. And the smoyle of my face Chuck, as you reminded me of that great Mike Goldberg line

if you can give it to me again here and you compared it to the band playing on the Titanic as it goes down which is absolutely... It takes a lot of energy to be a rock star. Oh my God. That's exactly it. Oh my fucking God. I watch

the fight again today, Chuck. I mean, it's still hits, like it's still, you watch the build up and they have like, you know, rousey throwing the hands. Yeah. You know, she thinks she can bucks. Let's see it goes against me.

And then, like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, with the, with the drone going around her. It's all very dramatic. And then we're into Melbourne with those, uh, the garden set chairs that everyone seems to be sitting in those little white plastic chairs. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, thousands of. Crazy event.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the, you know, the, you know, you think about that and I, I, I was the, what I, the, what I, I, I was, the, what I, intro was basically like there's no equivalent that you can come up with anymore, right? Because she meant so much to so many people at that point in time. In fact, when you go back and watch it, you can even see the people walking out with her just like, the goddess is here, you know, like part the sea. We're going to, you know, it was, it was just such a different

kind of significance for a fighter who had such a pervasive, like, presence in pop culture and, you know, beyond, beyond the octagon. So, like, if, and the thing that you can't convey is, all of us were trying to like lift this thing more into a positive more positive light where everybody would look at our sport you know and be like oh it's completely legitimate look who's you know she was kind of the one you know along with a couple of other thing but she was hugely part of that because she was on i pointed this out you know good morning america announcing the fight and uh you know she's just she's on ring magazine like the people are talking about her in ways that you're just like she's transcended into pop culture so when you

look at that and you put it aside a little bit and you watch that fight again like you did, what glares at you? She's out there, like, just coming, winging weird punches. Like, it looks so sloppy. And you see her getting pieced up from the very beginning. And when you watch it now, you're almost like, man, how did we, what were we thinking? Like, she's just getting so pieced up that Mike Goldberg becomes completely, like he's watching something completely different. Right. So I'm like, this is, nothing will illustrate more than going back and watch that fight where she was at in her career because Mike Goldberg is like, oh, yeah, she is. you know, Ronda Rousey, even as she's bleeding.

And Joe, Joe Rogan is sobered up from about the mid-round. He's like, she is getting beat right here. Like, he's worried, like, oh, this is all going away. And then with like 20 seconds left, I think she just ate like an elbow or something. Like something, there was a big shot. And he goes, it takes a lot of energy to be a rock star. And he's like, dude, what are you watching? Like, you know, he's like, this is like, it has nothing to do with being a rock star.

She's getting lit up. She's losing this fight. And it was like, you know, it, to me, that illustrated. exactly the sobering moment that it was, you know, because of the next round halfway through, boom, that head kick, she's down. And it was like one of the most seismic happenings in MMA at that point. Yeah. Well, do you remember, too, she was on a talk show, one of the late night talk shows before this fight. And, you know, which is when not a common occurrence for USC fighters then, not a common occurrence now. And she was saying, you know, they were basically, I don't know if it was like Jimmy Fallon or Colbert or one of them. And they were basically just like, so who are you fighting? What is this? What's, what's, what's, going on here? And she was just like, oh, you know, it's Holly Holmes. She's a kickboxer. She's going to look to stuff my takedowns and kick me in the head, but it's not going to happen like that. And then people put that clip right next to it happening exactly like that. And I think that was also one of the moments where when Ronda Rossi is mad now, when she's talking about how, you know,

her disdain for MMA fans and how she feels they turned on her and everything, I think a lot of it stems from this particular fight because she had really built up this dominance in everybody's eyes and she had really enjoyed that. She did a lot of shit talking on people. She tried to even do it with Holly Holm, who was just as nice a person as there is in MMA. And she tried to kind of work in a person where she was just like fake preacher's daughter, fake nice, you know, she did all that stuff before the fight. And so then when you finally lose one, there's going to be some people dancing on the grave a little bit. And I think that she's, she she never fully got over that she came back kind of uh when she wasn't totally ready and

fought a man and nunas and got beat even worse there and i think that the legacy of those things and the way fans reacted to her i think that she never she never stopped feeling hurt by that and it started here with this fight yeah it's it's a spectacular scene at the end um and just to illustrate how not that person um like is in this fake person rousey's trying to portray home to be. Rousey is at six and seven. She's on the ground. The fight has been stopped. And Holmes walking around are trying to embrace her, I feel like. She's trying

to be like, I'm, you know, are you okay or whatever? And Rousie isn't even aware that she's there. And Tard Verdean puts a seatbelt grip around Rhonda, but not, like, he's obviously not trying to choke her. He's just trying to embrace her in some way. And she's she immediately fights the arm. Like, she's

still going, like, is this still fucking happening? And it's just one of those moments. It's, it's forever trapped in time. It's, even the wayans, remember, like just the whole, yeah, it was just such, it was. Esserlin, by the way. Yeah, she deserves like a photo, that specific photo is so great, man. The one you put up, but also the head kick photo of. Oh, yeah.

It's like you can see her turn to a corpse on contact. Like, you just see this. Just unbelievable. She deserves some kind of award just for, like, I know she did tremendous stuff, but that event in particular, over in Australia, we felt also. Were either you guys there? No. No.

You didn't go to that one? No. No, her work is just incredible, but I don't know. It's got to be one of the all-time moments in the sport. Well, in terms of just like pay-per-view vise and viewership numbers hit, hit a level that kind of proved that this was the, you know, that you should have been doing women's MMA maybe before you were, because that was always Dana White's thing, right? It was just like, didn't believe in it, took Roder Rousey to get them to believe in it, to get them to give women's MMA a chance. And then, you know, it's not that long later your turnaround. and you're looking at doing, you know, over a million pay-per-view buys

or something like that. And you're going, like, they absolutely can be stars. You did a huge, huge event here and kind of hit a high watermark in a lot of ways. It's crazy to think, like, if Ronda does, you're mentioning earlier, you know, like that, you know, Habib walked so, you know, like, so that it's like that Rhonda, if she doesn't break through, who knows if we're watching, you know, this fight this weekend at Madison Square Garden. You know, it's just you don't really know who would have. have been that Trojan horse in the end for the UFC.

I feel like they would have come around at some point because there was so much talent, but I don't know if it could have been bigger. And that, you know, you try to give her that credit because I don't think that there was anybody who would have been able to carry it as far as she did, you know, so quickly and draw that kind of audience like she did. I'm not sure anybody else could have done it to that effect. No. And in fairness to the UFC, even when Andy pulled up the poster there, Valerie Littorno and

Joani and Jacek underneath this fight, as in to push that out as well. And honestly, like, Rousey losing and women's MMA continuing from strength to strength, like still being, as we can see this weekend, as you're saying, it kind of proved that it's more than one person.

Even though we needed that Trojan horse, it is more than just Ronda Rousie. Yeah. Well, that's one thing that I always think that, uh, MMA has plenty of problems. The UFC has plenty of problems. There's plenty of negative stuff you can say. One thing you can say, though, about this sport that you can't say about many others is that the men's version and the women's version

exist side by side, more or less equally. You know, it's not like the women's version is a separate thing that's put off somewhere else and has a different fan base or anything. They're right there. The fans perceive them as being the same thing. They get just excited about these women's title fights as they do about the men's title fights. They're all treated equally badly by their promoters. And they're all, they're equally badly.

They are all financially exploited. just the same way and you can't say that in many other sports well you don't want to get them too rich Ben if you get them too rich then they change you know what I mean Yeah of course

So we don't want to do you know everything What do you think this guy is Between a hundred thousand dollar blackjack hands being like Money ruins people man I tell you But this is what it is Ben They don't understand he's trying to get rid of the money Because it's ruined him he's like please come on take this Take this million blackjack dealer

One more break we're going to be back with our pay-per-view picks. Things are hoting up. People are making strategic decisions. This guy definitely is, as Ben told me about six months ago, a flash into my head this week. How do I catch Drake Riggs? We'll be back to talk about that and do some super chats. We'll see you then. Welcome back, my lovely people. As you know, the staff over here at Uncrown, we do a little picky picks and us three guys, well, we aren't on the top of the table, I'll tell you that much. We are fighting, fighting hard to catch that man, Drake Riggs up top there. As you can see,

Chuck has gone with Islam Microshev in the main event, as has Petey Carroll. One man stands alone with Jack Delam Adelaide. Explain yourself, folks. Look at where I am. I can't make any moves. I can't improve if I just make the same picks everybody else does at this point. I only have one goal right now, and it's to not be last. I if I can achieve that then I will I will be happy I'll at least be somewhat satisfied with it so I can't just sit here and

follow the crowd I got to take some chances got to take some big swings how do you like that analysis for his pick he's like I just don't want to finish last yeah that's why I love it oh there you go Ben has infiltrated my mind with this picking you know like because I'm doing the same thing

this week and all of us have Zhang Wili and Drake Riggs at the top there which is worrying has Valentina. That is where I am. You know, what does he know? What does he know? He is fucking tearing it up.

He knows too much. Is he involved in the gambling ring? That's what I'm starting to wonder. Look into that. Most experts say yes. These three certainly do. Chuck, me and you have gone with Morales. And I will say, this is slightly because I knew GC would go Sean Brady because they're boys.

I was like, he's going there. I need to, I need to get out of him. That one feels bad. I don't like that pick, but. We're going to know very quickly, I feel. it's that kind of fight very quickly we're going to be like oh fuck we're either very right or very wrong in that one yeah and uh can we just flash that up one more time and you see see what the discrepancies exist between ourselves um i'm the only one on leon hmm i wonder yeah

yeah i think leon man i think leon people are sleeping on mr edwards and i know his performance the last two fight were not good but i don't know man he's got that little chip in his shoulders Yeah, but you never know with him. He could always show up and look super good again, or he could also show up and look like he'd rather be anywhere else. It's true, Pizzi. Think about that for a minute. I was in Manchester for the Bilal fight.

I know what that looks like. I'm very aware. At least it happened at six in the morning or whatever. Oh, my God. And then what is our force fight tonight? On the main card? I have it here somewhere. Here we go.

Oh, yes, BSD. We're all on Ben-Lostandini. Apart from again, Riggs. You know what, though? It's concerning. It is concerning. Because I think the last time we were all on him, it didn't go so well. That was the pourier.

We were like, oh, it's a lock. This is a lock. That's what's going on in Riggs's mind. I can feel it. Oh. He says, he's playing at a higher level right now. That's all it is. I'm stressed out, man.

I get fucking stressed out on fighting out about these picks. I like suddenly, I'm like, oh, I don't care. And then suddenly shit goes wrong. And I'm like, what the fuck was I think of one recently? What was it? Like maybe three or four pay-per-fues ago where I went 0-1-5. I think a couple of us did. And I was like, wow, you couldn't be worse.

0 and 5. I think I've left myself open to be on the bottom of the table here, Ben. So like if I do end up there, I did that for you. Okay. I'll make sure you keep that in mind. Thanks. I want to fucking, there better be a podium graphic for my bold moves here in the last two events. I want to be on it.

Riggs, G.C. I'd love to just one of them, just knock one of them off the podium. You know what I mean? That would be fucking magic. That would be my favorite thing. I love them both, but, you know, fuck them at the same time. Super chats. Do we have any?

Yeah. There they are. Peeling back that axe. Whatever. Honor Jordan, who is... Don't know if I used the right analogy. He's in the Bahamas still. Lord knows, he showed up in the office there

about three weeks ago. He was like, lads, Bahamas is booked. I don't know what to tell you. Him and Ariel, like, they had a fist fight outside to see if they'd be allowed go or not. Homeless guy got involved. Sorry, what was the question, Andy? I don't think there was a question there.

Would be a shame if there weren't any superchats. Thank you, on air, Jordan. Enjoy your cocktail, sir. You have earned them. Do we have, oh, oh, shenanigans. 20 quid. Look at that. This is a long one.

I can't really read this much. Might be the last one, so we can retire here now. Petey, I know you've answered this question before, but I apologize. I didn't write it down. I'm visiting Dublin and Galway next week with my wife. We enjoy a good meal and even more a good Guinness or cocktail. Rex. go away just go and get lost in galway it's fantastic it's a brilliant city dublin um

cocktails a nice a nice place to go it's one of the oldest steakhouses in dublin it's called fx buckley it's on pembrook street i bring my dad for like birthdays elaine bring me and my birthday to do wonderful cocktails you're on bagot street there but just off baggett street bagget street is full of great places to go for points of guinness there's a place called o'dunah who as you're talking about a three minute walk from fx booklies on pen brook street go in there get yourself a point to Guinness they have tribe music most days of the week just up from that as toners you're to be so at stevens green there the world is your oyster once you hit that neck of the wood about the black forage i heard that place is really nice haven't been haven't

been and was invited once didn't go you know i agree i went to galway when i visited ireland a couple summers ago and had a great time there um there's even went to a good italian restaurant of all things uh that was in galway uh which actually i remember where Well, because it was where I was there with my now wife, who then at the time, I was like, so what's up? Are you my girlfriend or something now? Where it's like, yeah, I guess so. So, you know, you can go to the spot where it happened.

I'm sure they've got a plaque up by now. Also, I mean, especially if you were renting a car and driving around Ireland, which is the way to do it, I think, you should absolutely make a detour and go hit up cork. One of the best parts of our trip was hanging out, party. and cork and really fun town. Great place. Do you ever go over to Dunlary? Yeah, Dunlary is just down the road. Yeah, there's some puffin.

You know puffing, those birds are, you can see some of those over there. So bring your binoculars and you can see some, you can see some puffing. Train goes right into it and look, Ben's right. Cork beautiful, Kerry's beautiful. If you can get a car and go around the wild dandic way, you can see where Star Wars did the recent movies

where Luke Skywalker lived on the Skelligs there. It's one of the most dramatic landscapes you'll ever see. it's a beautiful place don't don't stick to the cities get out and explore a bit it's uh it's it's it's much more than the points and whatnot but they're very good as well i'm gonna light you yeah anything else there handy beelzebub satan in other words shout out to all the super chance on the world's greatest combat sports podcast woo this is the people's m mb you know what have you felt it by the way you know initially people are going like oh what's going on with this Friday show.

Yeah. It's turning a bit now. You know, it's turned. I think he's kind of like us. I think you fucking like what we're doing here. And you're very welcome. Anything else, Andy? Jose Valencia.

Can't Star Friday without the crack. I'd like to do crack every day. Great work, guys. Thank you. You shouldn't do crack every day. I'm just going to say it right now. No. Not every day.

Some people are just built you for it. You know what I mean? Some people are just fucking built for it. That's Charlie Sheen. Yeah, oh man, that documentary was crazy. It was nice. The L. Soylent. That's a great, Nick.

That's a great name. 499. If Islam loses the JDM and goes back down to fight Ilya, does it take any shine away from Ilya if he were to win that fight? I don't think, I think it would be just as big for Ilya. I think that it would be a little bit of like if Islam went back down and if he beat I got the title back, people would kind of have a vibe of like, yeah, you stay home now. You wandered too far away. You got punished for it.

Now you should stay back home at lightweight where you belong. But I still think it would be huge for Ilya. I mean, because it's just people would understand what to make of it, right? If Islam went up there, lost against a bigger fighter and a bigger weight class, people would just kind of go like, yeah, well, hey, that's why they had these weight classes, man. Still a huge fight for Ilya, though. It wouldn't even be Ilya, though. It would be Paddy Pimbled. That's who he'd be facing.

You know, it would be even bigger, though, is if Islam won the title, stayed at well, way and ilia came up to get him that's a monster fight right there yeah it would look like ilio would be fighting a monster too because he's incredibly sure yeah that's right and fuck i think islam's gonna struggle if he struggled before at 155 after post creatine's Islam it's gonna really struggle getting back down there i feel that is that is all andy oh look at this call the ten dollars love the show enjoyed the shamrock piece just enjoyed ben didn't get into it like I would. I said I fucking, I absolutely adored the shamrock piece. Will legend's experience effects of head trauma recently? Sorry, I'm reading that wrong.

Will. Have you had to consider this when interviewing about Ford's past? How do you know the truth? You know, I think, I understand what he's saying here is basically that, I mean, for one thing, I think one of the things that we are on the cusp of realizing is that we don't actually really know what a 60-year-old MMA fighter looks like. we haven't seen it really yet. You know, we, I think we told ourselves a pleasant fiction for a long time that this sport is safer than boxing because it seemed like it should be, right? Like the, there's no knockdowns that allow you to recover enough to get up and, and keep taking a beating. The grappling gives you something else, another aspect to the sport.

We told ourselves, like, we're not going to see the same level of head trauma and the, the long-term effects of it that some of these other sports have seen. And I think we're going to realize it's all head trauma, man. not like there's a minimal amount of head trauma in this. It's fight sport. They are going to deal with some of this stuff. It's not going to be a thing that MMA doesn't have to face. It just isn't a thing we've had to face yet because the sport hasn't been around long enough for it. But we're going to see some of that. We're going to see we got a whole generation of like the first generation guys where MMA was really a sport enough for people to dedicate their

lives to it to be doing it several times a year. Those guys are now getting into their 50s and headed towards 60. And I think that we're going to see not only that it's going to head stuff, but I think it's going to be just a lot of orthopedic stuff. I mean, how many MMA fighters do we know, a lot of whom we're not even that old who are already on a replaced knee or replaced hip, things like that. Like, I think that we are going to get some reminders that this is a hurting game and people are going to pay a physical price for being in it. Yeah, yeah.

It's also why I think people that goes give out about the payment somewhere. Yes, exactly why. Big time. Somebody else is making a billion dollars a year off. of this stuff, they ought to be setting a little bit aside for retirement, pension, ongoing health care, things like that. Absolutely. Is that them all, Andy? Unique, you've sent those $10. Andy, like,

is this some type of allegiance you have with Ariel Wani show and BOTB that you're only appearing in our headphones? This is absolutely ridiculous. Do you know what I mean? I can't believe this. Go ahead. Jeffrey Smith woke up at 5 a.m. Hell yeah. What a fucking legend. I'm sorry, that's all we got.

Lads, I love you. Guess what? Crackheads. We've got so much shit over the weekend. The lads are going to do a watch along during the fights and then me and Chuck and I really want to be here for the post-fight show.

Well, Ben's entertaining his guests on his expense pay-per-view. You know, I'd love to be getting lit up. I'd love to be getting lit up at 6 o'clock in the morning watching these fights. Some of us have to work, Ben, okay? Listen, I'm still going to sit down after it's all over and hammer out a column. So don't you worry about me?

I'm a professional, God damn it. Jesus Christ, I didn't even think of that. Well, pretty impressive. Listen, we fucking love all of you. You better love us. Come and join us on the Post-Foid show and on the Watch Along tomorrow from Chuck, Ben, me, Andy, Oscar. Not on Air Jordan, because he's in the Bahamas. We will see you next week.

Ma! Thank you.