The Ariel Helwani Show - UFC Fighter revolt? Ilia Topuria speaks, White House update, more | The Craic

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

The Craic is back! Petesy Carroll, Chuck Mindenhall, and Ben Fowlkes return as usual. First up, they take a deep dive into Zuffa Boxing’s recent $15million signing of Conor Benn and what it means for TKO’s first move into boxing (0:14). That eye-catching payday didn’t go unnoticed in the UFC. The trio explore the growing rumblings of discontent among fighters (44:51). Then, breaking news lands mid-show, as the lads react live to the announcement that Oleksandr Usyk is set to defend his WBC heavyweight title against Rico Verhoeven (53:00). From there, they get into Ilia Topuria and Jake Paul’s war of words (59:41), before discussing fighters speaking out about not wanting to compete at the UFC’s proposed White House event (1:03:20). There’s UFC action this weekend as well, with Petesy and the lads previewing Brandon Moreno vs. late-notice replacement Lone’er Kavanagh (1:12:54). They wrap things up by answering your Super Chats (1:19:06).

Welcome back to the crack, ladies and gentlemen, and my word did a lot happen after we went off air last week. Me and Chuck were here going, I wonder when we're going to see a big move from these Zoufa boxing guys. And yeah, within a few hours, one of the biggest stories of the year breaks. Connor Ben signs a one-fight, $15 million deal with Zufo Boxing. Shortly thereafter, Eddie Hearn is doing his thing. He's in front of all the media. he tells IFL TV that he's devastated by what happened. Of course, you'll remember Eddie Hearn really went to battle for Connor Ben after those failed drug tests, about three years of him just appearing in front of the media

and being eviscerated. One of his top guys, I put him at number three behind Joshua and Kaye Taylor. Connor Ben was there and off the success of those two U-Bank fights, a very big deal. Earlier this week, obviously this being a big thing for Zufo boxing, the Connor Ben signing, earlier in the week we hear that Frank Warren's Queensbury have a $1 billion lawsuit regarding a breach of contract to Sela and Zoufa, TKO, should I say.

Yesterday, Netflix Sports have announced that Connor Ben will headline the co-main event of April 11's ring card, that's a Toys and Fury card when he faces Regis Pro Gray. Adding to the confusion, because we don't see any Zoufa boxing emblems on this poster, it seems very much a ring event, but according to Mark Shapiro of TKO, that is the event we're speaking of.

We have learned also from Mark Shapiro's call that Turkey Alashik will be footing the bill for this $15 million purse for Connor Ben. A lot is happening. I'm trying to give you the broad brushstrokes of everything that's happened. The pro great news is the newest piece of it and there is a lot of confusion. A lot of people thought with Connor Ben in New York, week talking to Ryan Garcia, Shakur Stevenson. This was the kind of fight people were expecting for 15 million. Regis Pro Gray, not really in that same echelon right now. It's a very, very confusing situation. And we do have a reaction from Mr. Eddie Hearn, former promoter of

Connor Ben. He was speaking to Fight Hub TV about this situation. And he has kind of said, like, you know, I am very confused by it. I do. we might have that clip if Andy has it there for us before I bring in my fantastic colleagues. Not the type of fight that I would have put Connor in because I was looking for the big fights and I want him to become a world champion and we had two fights there for him or three fights that would have given him the opportunity to be world champion. But he wasn't really interested in those because he just wanted the most amount of money and I get that. But you know, I don't, you can't knock someone for that.

The Regis fight is an interesting one. But nice, nice running. You know, I mean, look, with respect to Regis, he's, see from the Jojo Diaz fight, is coming to the back end of his group, but he's still a good fighter. But Conner will be much too young and fresh for him. So, yeah, I guess it's a treading water fight for what's next. Yeah, it just doesn't make sense to a lot of people I was looking online. Like, hey, you know, that big of a purse for someone like a progress,

you would expect maybe, you know, if it was like a Ryan or some other, like, like type of fighter that had like a bigger name but like it perplex a lot of people as to yeah all very strange i think i'm on the i'm on the same situation as you it doesn't really make sense but we'll have we'll have to see um it doesn't make sense to a lot of ufc fighters either um you know they've been very vocal about it but we'll have to see what the real truth is and um you know i didn't expect to see him on an undercod but you know if he's getting his money good luck to him well i'm glad that eddie brought up the the discontent among ufc fighters because that is something that we will be talking about today

we've heard from a number of people since this announcement and before this announcement about pay really knowing that connor ben is suddenly getting this 15 million dollars of course now we know cello will be fronting the bill for that but look there's a lot to unpack i'm sure i've missed something i'm sure ben and chuck will tell us we're all back together ben's back from his trip around the North Sea. And it's so beautiful for him to join us here today. Chuck, I mean, it's great to have him back, isn't it? It's great to have Ben folks here. This kid's a Globetrotter at this point. I feel like, and he never says anything. It's just like you catch him when he's already there. Like, I'm in Copenhagen right now, so I'll get back to you guys

when I can, you know? Yeah. I mean, thank you so much, Ben. I mean, it's lovely for you to be back in America. I mean, huge stories going down. You're nowhere to be seen. Glad to see you this week. Okay, first of all, when you say nowhere to be seen, you mean dropping everything in the middle of the afternoon in Copenhagen to go back to my hotel and write a column. So that's because that's what happened. When they, they dropped this, this Gina Carrano, Ronda Rousey news, I was sitting there fresh out of a museum visit and joining a Carlsberg like you do when you're in Copenhagen, get this notification and go, well, all right, guess I got to go back to the hotel room,

type up a column real quick and then get back to my vacationing life. The reason I don't say anything beforehand is if you tell people beforehand, they might tell you Wait, no, don't go. We got some stuff we need you to do. If you just go, it's too late. I'm already gone. It could be anything as well. When Ben's like, he's not available, like, I wonder what it is.

This could be, oh, he's in a different country again, you know, lovely stuff, probably going to, you know, beautiful ballet, drinking beautiful points of Uncle Arthur. Exactly what he's doing. I saw an opera. I saw an opera and let me, I mean, spoiler alert. When did you get so fancy? This is, this is in the last, I want to say, two years,

he became very fancy. Right? This is like, right? You married into thoughts. They're getting cultured. If anybody is wondering, hey, does the opera Rigoletto end with a nice, happy ending for Rigoletto? Nope. No. I was sorry, guys. It is my own displeasure to report to you that Rigoletto ends up being the unwitting author of his own destruction. Who knew? That plot twist. Who knew? Plot twist. I was the guy sitting there in the audience when they played one of the catchy tunes and I was like,

I've heard this song somewhere. Oh yeah, it was on an episode of Gilligan's Island. No joke. I'm looking around a bunch of people in Texas and I'm like, you guys remember the Gilligan's Island episode, right? I'm sure the people of Copenhagen were absolutely stunned by this drop of knowledge and one of the lights of Ben. But listen, we have a lot to fucking talk about here, boys.

Shit went down. It is one week since shit went down. And it feels like a million things have happened since then. can you try chuck if i ask like how big is this story this uh zufa boxing showing up stealing one of matron's biggest guys i mean there's been a lot of back and forth i mean dana has called eddie herne the b word the p u sss y word wow they're just going to spell the word i don't know why you need to i don't want to be so disgusting all the time i mean He said it, though,

I mean, how big is the story if you can contextualize for the people? I mean, it's a big, it's a big story if you are, you know, looking at the broader landscape, especially, you know, and I think it's crazy because obviously Zupa boxing is with the deep-pocketed, you know, uncle out there in Saudi Arabia is a little bit different of a setup than when the Fertita's, you know, brought up the UFC. And even when post-Fertita with the UFC, the structure was already in place. But when you have a company under the same umbrella of TK. AO and the other arm of it is so extraordinary.

It's going to be a big deal. And it's always one of those eye-openeres in a sense that like if people don't pay it. I think with Sean O'Malley was basically saying, like, I don't even know who this guy is. I don't know who Connor Ben is, which is funny in itself, right? But to get that kind of money, you know what I mean? Like 15, like you bring back like, if you think back to Lorenza Furtita when they were doing tough and they were like, we were five times over our investment price. like $10 million invested into like this.

If it didn't succeed for tough one, we might not, we might have quit, you know, we might have got out of it. That was, I know that was a long time ago, but imagine that now $15 million for one guy for one fight on an undercard.

Like we're mentioning, I mean, it's headlining that co-main event, which is good, but like it's still, it's still just one fight. That's going to glare, right?

Like, that's going to glare at everybody down the roster on TKO. Some people, like some people care more than others. We've seen similar things If people were going to be pissed off They might have been more pissed off When you know

The UFC basically with Turkey Came in and offered John Jones that amount Like whatever the amount was like what was the amount It was something like 30 million or what was it 30 million yeah I mean when they When they come in and offer a guy like that Obviously now you're talking about your league right Like you're talking about your where you guys are at

There wasn't much of an outcry And I think it's just because it's just a one fight deal We don't see anything like this Zouffer related ever So I think it's going to resonate for a while We'll see if anything comes to that. Ben, what is it? Is this a statement from Zufa more than anything, given who Connor Ben was?

I explained what he means to Matrum. I explained how Eddie went to bat for him. Is this 15 million? Is this about making a gesture like this, like pointing out Matrum and going, look what we just did to you more than it is about putting on a fight with Regis Pro Gray? Yeah, I think it is. Because you think about, ask yourself, what is Zufa boxing really getting? out of this for the money because it is interesting to contrast Dana White's statements when he's

talking to the MMA media and he's going, look at me, I'm out here beating up babies. He said at one point, I'm literally beating up babies and you're like, well, come on, literally. It's not what that means. Literally. I appreciate every time he says it. He's really doing a sort of like jumping up and down, look at me, how great I am for being able to do this in your face, Eddie Hearn, kind of thing. And then when you turn around and you hear from actual TKO executives when they're talking to shareholders and when you can't just say stuff, when it has legal ramifications, what you say to them, you can't just spout off and say whatever you feel like. Then they're going, well, hold on. It's not our money to begin with. And it's not like, my first question when I heard Zufa boxing science Connor Ben, I was like, is he going to fight at a Zufa boxing show in the apex?

You're not going to pay somebody $15 million for one of those kinds of shows. Like, what are you getting out of that? And instead, it's like, okay, we are kind of getting a piece of this show and we're doing it with somebody else's money. Don't worry, you guys. We're not out here with our own money at stake on this one. So really not that big a deal. It kind of seems then like a different thing. But it does seem like what you've actually done has been, do you want to say we're taken over?

We were coming in here. We're putting everybody on notice. we're the big dog in the yard now. And that's kind of what this does. My first thought was it's a great time to be a boxer with some kind of a name value that people might want to fight over because all they're doing is they're getting into just this ego-driven pissing match right now. And that could majorly benefit you.

If you're a boxer who is out there and has the opportunity to sign with somebody else, just because nobody wants to lose any more fighters, important fighters from their rosters. They want to pick somebody up from somebody else's roster. Now's a really good time to capitalize on that stuff. But you also look at it and you see like what are they getting in return out of this. It's not as if beyond the headlines of Zufa boxing signs Connor Ben, Zufa does not really seem to be benefiting that much from this. It's not like people are going, well, I've got to watch the next Zufa boxing show because Connor Ben's going to be on it. Like, not really. It's not really what you've done here. Yeah, it seems seismic in the sense of

Zufa making a splash, right? Like a flex. If it's Eddie Hearn, whatever you want to, like, you know, if it's directly to Eddie, if it's just to the boxing world, you say, we're going to front load something here. And you get a little bit of a sense of that. We're going to do, we're going to show the rest of the boxing world that we mean business, first of all, because remember, there was like, there was pretty much an echoed laughter after the first couple of events.

I mean, everybody was going around talking about Zufa and kind of making fun. And boom, boom, they kind of, they jump in the space like this. you've got Yusik kind of teasing out stuff and now you just don't know, right? Like it feels like anything is possible from this standpoint. I think in some ways it was a signal to the rest of the boxing world like, hey, we're going to come in and we're going to mean business. Now, but I still think it's a front loaded type of thing. I think they might do some of this stuff early, but obviously we know, and this is probably one of the reasons why Dana White is trusted to kind of handle this, that eventually he will whittle it into the thing that he wants it to be. And that's not going to look like this.

but in the initial and the in the short term, um, it is. And I mean, dude, if all the, of all the people are like, wow,

this is a crate. Why, why would they, you know, it's, it's more like, the, the thing that's come out of is like,

most people are like, why would they book Regis pro gray into this file? There's supposed to be a super fight when they're saying like a super fight. We're going to two, two, two of those a year. Um, that fell short a little bit. You know what I mean?

Like that came up short. What does a super fight mean here? Exactly. For this, does it mean we are super excited about it or we're paying him a super lot of money. Because it doesn't, in any other sense, like it doesn't, does not equal a super fight. Yeah.

I think when, when he was signed, because I'd been kind of speaking about what will these events look like, you know, I know there was the apex events and they were talking about having these other big banner events three or four a year. I was thinking like, yeah, okay, Jay Appetoya, Connor Ben, you can put together a really good card with those guys. I just did not expect it to be on this ring card. and we you mentioned we both mentioned Mark Shapiro's

comments on that quarterly financial meeting we have a bit of that here just to show what Ben is speaking about them kind of underlining like this isn't going to affect our bottom line here is Mark Shapiro CEO of TKO Holdings Now let me be clear we signed him for just one fight

that's all we're talking about here now of course we hope eventually he'll fight in our soup of boxing series exclusively on Paramount Plus. But for now, this is just one fight, no different than what we did with Canelo and Crawford, no different than other superfights we're currently planning with Sella.

I would add that the reported purse, which I believe was around $15 million, but the reported purse, I'm not confirming or denying, that Connor will be paid for this super fight in 2026, is not TKL going out of pocket. Sella, led by our great partner, Sarkiola Sheikh, is covering the purse. Once again, no different than exactly what he did with the Canelo Crawford fight. Here's the thing.

Is this make, like, the whole Dana versus Eddie thing a bit of the wrong prison to be looking at this through? Because it doesn't sound like Dana's really had a lot to do with this at all. You know, this is... What do you mean, Pizzi? he's been part of promoting three of the biggest boxing cards of all time, right? Like that's kind of what he wants out of it because he wants to be able to say he did it. Like he did with Connor McGregor fighting Floyd Mayweather where it was like, man, you begrudgingly agreed to let your fighter go make a whole bunch of money only if he gave you a piece of it for just saying yes. And then you showed up to a couple of press conferences and yelled.

That's all you did. It was great. Okay, hang on. The yelling was epic. okay it is stood the test of time some of his best yelling i haven't heard him that excited about anything and quite some time since then so and then the same thing with like the where you can claim to have these ties to these other fights and that seems like what he's getting out of it is it's just kind of like i i want to be able to put my name on it i want to say i was part of it all that

kind of stuff it does seem though like if you're when you're actually looking at it you're kind I go on, oh, okay, so this is more of turkey L. Shake, just kind of turning the boxing world upside down, sewing, like, a certain brand of chaos in it, making it so everybody has to scramble and look out for what he's going to do next. Yeah. One thing is like, with, you know, with Eddie Hearn, I don't know, man, I was just, I was, Ben, you went off somewhere else. I had a thought that was at the beginning of what you're saying, but go ahead, go ahead, sorry. No, it was just, all I was saying was about Regis Pro Gray here. Like, just in terms of this fight. Oh, yeah. Okay.

It's, it's, Connor Ben's last way in, I think it was like 160 pounds. And I know he was blown up for that fight against Eubank. Pro Gray, I think, did most of his work out like 140. This fight is happening on 150 pounds. Obviously, a lot of people feel as though Pro Gray is on the back end here. Like, he had the fight with Joseph Diaz, didn't look great. he was knocked down a number of times against Jack Catterall, knocked down against Devin Haney.

This feels like, this feels like it's just not the fight. As you guys mentioned earlier, Chuck, this is not the kind of fight we were expecting here. Like, are you, like, you're a boxing fan? Ben, you're a boxing fan. Chuck, are you excited for this fight? This would be, that's kind of,

I'm sorry, that's what I was trying to get at was Eddie Hearn was basically saying, like, I wanted to give him a little bit of the, you know, the championship vibes. I was going to put him into big fights. We had these big fights out there. He ends up with, the Regis program, but dude, if you think about it, what a lotto ticket this guy won?

Like, just kind of going out, like, not only is he getting the biggest purse by millions that he'll ever, you know, get, maybe, maybe not ever, but like, that he's gotten to this point. But then he gets a 37-year-old. Imagine if Eddie Hearn was the reverse, right? Eddie Hearn was saying, I'm going to go into MMA. We're going to do some things. And the first thing he does is we snap up Michael Morales and we're going to, like, give him, you know, some stupid amount of money and we're going to put him in a fight.

You'd be like, whoa, this is big, that you're taking one of the, you know, one of the kind a charismatic younger guys and you're putting them into a situation. They said he's going to fight D-Rod. You know what I mean? 39-year-old D-Rod. It would be like, you'd be like, okay, that was a little anticlimatic considering, right? So the guy who benefits the most, and you're like, how could you possibly say no if you're going to get $15 million for one fight and you're going up against Regis Progray, who you should

beat, I think he's minus 1,100. Like, he's a huge favorite. You know what I mean? dude this is it's like of all of the fighters this year i mean we're pretty early we'll see how it all plays up but talk about a gift that was given to you man connor coner ben got that gift and don't forget to mention he is headlining the co-main event right yeah a series of words that just sort of work in opposition to each other similar to when the ufc tried to make it a thing of the the prelim main event feature prelim that that kind of thing where it's just like

You're trying to find a way to say, this is the big banana of those smaller bananas. It doesn't really mean anything. It is very interesting, though, like to have these two guys, synonymous with British promoters, Toys and Fury with Queensbury, of course. We mentioned the lawsuit for breach of contract that they seem to be initiating. And then you have Connor Ben of Matron, both of these guys on this card in Tottenham, in London. And it's a ring card. know it it does feel again to what we're speaking earlier to speaking to earlier like this feels like zupa ring seller planting their flag and being like we're pissing in your backyard here lads like

we have we have your two best go we have two of the best guys in the UK and we're doing an event without you guys is this again part of the the posturing process chuk there's some i mean there there's anything you know what i wish i could understand better just in general um what the bigger picture is for Zufo Box. And I think part of what, when we look at what they're doing at this point, you're like, you're in the apex. These cards seem to kind of die on the vine. They had a pretty good third event in terms of finally getting some knockouts. But like in general, it's been a very curious product.

And then so they go and do this. And I guess what I'm trying to say is like they want to do two or two to four big events. And they said, come judge us at the end of the year. I'm really interested when it comes down to it. When we, when we do our show at the end of the year, what we're saying. about it because at this point do you guys clearly see other than maybe some of the posturing we're mentioning or we're speculating like things that they're doing maybe puffing their chest out or flexing or things like this so far i don't see the big picture of what they're trying to do

it seems like at least some of it right is this phase is meant to sort of destabilize the boxing world it's meant to throw everybody else out of their their usual rhythms no it's just it's just sort of meant to like undercut the usual order of things and that combined with what you're pushing for in terms of the Ali Act seems like we're trying to remake boxing to fit the business model that we would like and probably a business model a lot closer to what they have with the UFC, which you've heard boxing promoters, you know, Eddie Hearn, among them just being like, hey, if you could do that kind of business model, then that's really great for you as the people who own and run the business because you're getting to keep.

almost all the money and you know you're you're also making it really difficult for people to compete with you and it seems like right now when he is talking about like okay look at us at the end of this first year this year seems like what we're trying to do is just completely shake up the world undercut these other promoters and create kind of a new world order because i think one of the things you heard people say with zufa boxing coming in right away was we went hey look we've seen how these guys treat top UFC talent. They're not going to get Canello Alvarez with the kind of deals that they've been offering in the UFC. You would be asking those guys to take just a laughable pay cut.

So you're not going to get those guys. And that's true. But I also think they're kind of looking at it and going, if you can get a foothold in now and if you can undercut other promoters now, you can look forward to a period, you know, four or five years from now, given the turn rate of athletes through combat sports, where you're getting younger up-and-coming talent who have never known that the other world. They've never had a chance to make that Canello kind of money. And they're looking around and just being like,

this is the way this sport works. I guess that's just it. And if you can sort of create that, then, you know, a lot of those guys won't know what they're missing. the same way it worked with when the UFC brought in their own sort of sponsorship deal and got rid of fighters being able to sell their own sponsorships. You had guys in the immediate of that transition who were like, hey, wait a minute, I was getting $50,000 to wear a hat three months ago. And now you're offering me $2,500 from Reebok. This is a bad deal.

And they went, all right, we'll just kind of ride that out. And then they get guys now where, you know, you mentioned somebody like Michael Morales. He never knew the world where you got $50,000 to wear the hat. So he thinks, all right, hey, you're giving me $5 grand or whatever it is to wear venom stuff. Like, I got to wear something. I guess, you know, five grand is five grand. I'll take it.

I think that's kind of what they're hoping to do long term with boxing. Just kind of kill off the guys who have the expectation of a big payday, let them get old and retire. I agree. That's the one thing that you know will happen. When I say that Dana will kind of whittle it into the way that they do business, that's generally what they'll do, right? I do think it's going to be a long road until we get to that whittling process. Like, I feel like this is all I've been doing all week is just watching every single

interview about this, like every single take from different sides or, you know, whatever we're getting from the Zufa Sela side as well. Obviously, we had that ring post after the announcement of Frank Warren's legal situation, which really, you know, really underlines the idea of the ring just. becoming a propaganda arm for the Saudis at the moment. Like, I mean, I felt as though Turkey wrote this tweet himself basically saying, like, oh, they're only saying this because they're having ticket sale issues. It actually got community noted on X because the tickets hadn't gone on sale yet when they said this.

But I do feel like before this whittling begins, it's going to be huge. Like, as you guys said, like, this is completely destabilized the boxing industry. If that, like, I feel like that, that was Dana White's plan from the get-go. and he's done it with Connor Ben again a weird guy to pick but certainly a shot across the bell at Matron but I do think it's going to get bigger and we had had the likes of

Usick, the pound for pound best in the world many would believe we had him kind of saying he has big news coming we've had Dan Raphael kind of saying there is big news coming I mean every bit of big news that's being days right now Ben I'm thinking it was so when are you going to announce

you're something with Uber boxing am I crazy yeah I mean we also though would need to get to a point where you're looking around and going, when is there going to be a show? Like we heard mentioned by Marchapura there where you're on Paramount Plus, it is a Zufa Boxing

show. That is it. And it has all these guys who are assigned to Zufa Boxing, who are big, big names. It doesn't seem like we're really that close to that yet. Because it's one thing for Zufo boxing to be able to say, we have signed this guy and then to turn around on an earnings call afterwards and go with somebody else's money and so therefore we're not really taking a risk and he's going to fight on somebody else's fight card

and not at like our broadcast home because then that it feels like you're you just want to put your brand on the thing for the purposes of looking at other promoters and being like ha ha ha look we're getting them and really the people really benefiting from that are the fighters who could be like all right you guys are going to war with your pocketbooks

I'm listening. You know, that's, that's who really stands to benefit the most here. It will be fascinating after a $15 million payday, what happens with Connor Ben? You know what I mean? It's a free agent. It's a free agent. I mean, it's like, then like, we'll see if it's, if it's to disrupt and to kind of do what we're talking about. That's when it'll start to show up, right?

I mean, in those ways. I have no idea because we're not used to this kind of thing, what that will mean for the boxing landscape, what that'll mean for Connor Ben. does he translate into a bigger star off of this? I mean, who knows? And this actually is one of those, we were talking about this before the Ryan Garcia fight, like under Zufa boxing.

Now, if this is really where it's supposed to get the promotional muscle, right, from Dana White and company, does he translate? Because maybe that's what you see that they do, right? Like maybe they're going to show that, hey, we can make Connor Ben, who was a pretty big star and everybody, you know, I feel like a lot of people, even the MMA world, were paying attention to the Eubank series, you know,

but like, And they make him a transcendent feeling figure, you know. And that can be a lure, you know, for boxers to come over too if they're going to be promoted the right way. That's a good point. It's a good point. One thing, and we're going to move on from this, we're going to talk about the idea of this storing discontent among UFC fighters, which we've seen some evidence of in the last week or so. But another thing I can't stop thinking about is, right, so Frank, Frank Warren, Queensbury, we're working with Turkey. they now have this

reports of this lawsuit, one billion dollar lawsuit. We know Eddie was working with Turkey. Obviously, this has not been a good situation for them, given that Connor Ben is being paid by Turkey to fight on this ring card. I saw an interview with Ben Shalom, who was the boxer promoter on talk sport during the week. And as the industry, the old guard you would say, which he kind of belongs to, even though he's a younger man,

he is a guy he had kind of put around the likes of Warren and Heron, even though he has a lot less experience. Like, he is part of that movement. And he's kind of saying, like, I still think Turkey's the most trustworthy guy out of all of these. My question to you, guys, is, like, when do people kind of start going, okay, I've learned my lesson.

Okay, I think Turkey might not be out for my best interests. Like, we already were talking about the idea that two massive alphas in Dana and Turkey kind of coming together on this, like their heads could butt at some stage. We see the history of what's, happened with Queensberry, what's happened with Matrium, is it inevitable that this leads to some kind of rift down the line with Dana and Turkey? And at what point will people be like, I don't really know if this is a good idea for us to go into business with this guy who keeps on basically

using people's weapons against them inevitably. You know what I mean? Like it comes to a stage where Frank is saying the breach of contract in that case is them allowing them in to show them how everything works essentially, him thinking that he was going to be part of this Zoufa situation and then not being, like, but they're using the framework of his business against him. Again, with Eddie, they're using one of his big signs as they're taking him away. At some point do people go, like, maybe this isn't the best idea or is it just all about money? I mean, first of all, I love the idea of suing for a cruel $1 billion. It kind of, it makes you sound a little bit.

He started with a million and somebody said, you might want to go up. Dr. Evil in the office there. It just comes across so much different. Like if you were like, I'm suing for $985 million, that sounds like, all right, somebody crunched some numbers. They did some math. And even if you're suing for like $1.2 billion, it's like, oh, well, that's a big number of it.

But being like, I'm going to sue you for a billion dollars. Sounds like something an angry seventh grader says to you, you know. There's something about it I love. But it is, I mean, it's entirely possible, isn't it, that. The idea of a guy who shows up and he's like, hey, money doesn't really mean anything to me. It definitely doesn't mean the same thing to me that it means to you guys. So here, would you like a whole pile of it? I'm just going to give it to you.

And I think maybe a lot of those guys said like, all right, we don't know how long this guy's going to actually be able to do that, but we will gladly take this pile of money now. And then he wants to work with us. And maybe they looked at him as just like, here's an outsider. He doesn't know any of this about this business. he's willing to light some money on fire in order to find out. Ha, ha, ha, ha, I'm going to be laughing all the way to the bank on it. And then you realize like, oh, wait, he was using that money to kind of get in the door.

And then once he saw what he needed to see, he decided like, all right, what do I need you for anymore? I'm going to go do it on my own. And, you know, as far as when might those guys get the hint that that's going on, I think a lot of them are still going to continue losing all sense and vision once they see all the zero. on the check. I think that that's just, that's why it works is because you can sort of buy your way in and just be like, hey, look, all this money right now is real, whereas the, the possibility that I might turn around and just cut you out of the business going forward is hypothetical. It's air. You know, the money now is really what's going to make people go blind and, you know, kind of forget that this is a possibility, I think. I mean, it would be

easier just knowing for having worked like, you know, around Dan, white knowing what he does to see him ending the relationship before Turkey does. You know, just given that, like, who he is and what he's like, what they've done. In the short term, like, I would fully expect him to be on board because like we said, you're now navigating. You're trying to get into that, you know, that space and you're trying to take it over. But the, but in the big picture, I feel like at some point, they probably will butt heads on some level.

This is, otherwise, Dana, like, imagine back in the. the day when affliction had like Donald Trump coming on board and that sort of thing. Donald Trump's going against the UFC of the, but the UFC would have never been in business with Donald Trump. They wouldn't have been like, come on in, man, like help us take over and let's do this stuff. At some point you wonder, I know now they are, like, let's forget about the White House card for a minute. But like in terms of money, like I don't know if, I don't know how that relationship will shake out as it goes down, you know, goes down.

I think right now, though, like you mentioned vision. And I know Dana White has said this too. The difference is that there is a bit of a vision between these other, these old heads that have been in boxing versus Dana White who's like, we're trying to revolutionize the sport. We're trying to clean it up. We're going to bring it. We're going to do this. All the revival act. We're going to bend it to our will and we're going to do this.

That's a vision, right? It's tyrannical in its own way. It's a big bully tactic. But it's like, it's one of those things that's like, we have a big picture vision that we want to do. Whereas the other guys are just like, we just want to keep doing business the way I've been doing it, you know? And that's a big difference. I mean, so from Turkey's perspective, he, he's. He may be more attracted to that in that sense, right?

Like of saying, like, I want to have something that will eventually take over the sport rather than just kind of, you know what I mean? Like just to dip my toe here, here and here. Yeah. Chuck, it's funny because we were doing the show last week and all this stuff happens afterwards. And Ben mentions at the top of the show, Rousie and Gina obviously having this fight on Netflix. Is this something? Like, you know, you wrote a great column about this earlier in the weekend.

like Rhonda basically a declaration of war her signing for MVP. And the quote she's said, like she's basically said, this is what it is. Like it's MVP versus UFC. Yeah, that was her words. Yeah.

We were talking on the show last week and like, we were kind of saying, is there a possibility we see Dana fighting on two fronts, not only in the boxing world and in the, but also in the MMA world? Is that a possibility as far as you're concerned? Or is MMA just too sewn up for, it to have this kind of massive ramifications with a single signing.

I think so if you want to talk about just like more of a paradigm shift if anything else. The thing we've been used to is other leagues coming in and saying like, hey, we're going to try something. Maybe they try a tournament format, whatever it is. They go head to head with UFC and they lose eventually. Some people like affliction back the day, they wanted to kind of flex and spend a bunch of money. That was unsustainable.

The big difference here is that you got like MVP, which is just. heavily connected and deep pocketed and has Netflix. And so this becomes like, it's not even a competition. Do I think they'll form a league or some kind and like really get into MMA? Probably not. But that's might not even be what it's about anymore. It might just be to be, let's put together four major shows that are going to be bigger than anything the UFC can do.

I mean, that could literally be it. And that could be a winning formula for them in the short term because it's just not the same business model that it was. we were dealing with a pay-per-view industry and the UFC kind of running it the way that they did. We were used to paying since UFC won. If you would go back that far,

like it's everybody was used to paying it. Now it's just a part of a streaming service and they've got right now, and I know Paramount just made this, Paramount's trying to gather them all up like a vortex, but in terms of Netflix itself, that's a major, major thing, right? And so I don't even think they care about having a league,

but if they can bring over and do like a couple of big shows and be like, wow, we just, We just did bigger numbers than you did in six months combined or something like that. I think that that would be the victory. Yeah, I mean, when you look at what MVP and Netflix have been trying to do so far with boxing events, they're not trying to hit any singles. You know, they're not trying to like, hey, let's establish a running sports brand that is weekly content that you can count on showing up every once in a while.

They're only showing up and doing an event when they think they can, do something big. And that's not, Netflix kind of came out and said that. We're interested in tent poll events. That's what they want out of sports, or at least that's what they want out of getting into the combat sports business at all. And so, yeah, I don't think, for a couple reasons, I don't think you see an MMA organization the way we're used to thinking of it come up out of this for it. Because for one thing, where do you get the fighters? Who do you get that where you could put on regular events in MMA? Because it's, your choices are either people, People who are so early on into their careers, nobody has ever heard of them.

Even the contender series hasn't had a chance to get its hooks in them yet. Or people who have already gone through the entire life cycle of a fighter in MMA and ended their careers and are now free agents like on after being in the UFC, something like that, like where you're just using money to entice guys out of retirement and come back and fight for you. And neither one of those makes a solid ongoing MMA promotion that could put on, you know, 20 to 30 events a year. You're just not going to be able to do it. That's a losing effort. And it doesn't seem at all like what either MVP or Netflix wants to do. And so it seems like they're going to look around and see when there's an opportunity to sign a couple big fighters and be able to put on a big event because that's kind of the events they want.

They don't necessarily, like I think they learned a lot of lessons in the past year or so from boxing where they go, look, we put on a Jake Paul, Mike Tyson fight. Was it a serious fight that was important to the sport of boxing? absolutely not. Did a whole bunch of people watch and feel like for one night, for a couple hours, one night, the entire world was having the same conversation about one thing.

Like, yeah, they achieved that. And they did it again with the Jake Paul, Anthony Joshua one. You could argue that when they tried to do more serious boxing fights is when they lost a little bit of that. They know that. Yeah, I think they do know that. And so they go, look,

if we can get Ronda Rousey and Gina Carrano, is it a super relevant fight? for MMA in 2026? No, no, they're both. They were the most transformative figures for women's MMA. And with Ron Roussey, you could argue in MMA in general from two different eras. Both of those eras are now over. But people still know their names. You can still put them on a fight card together where people go, I've heard of at least one of those people. I will tune in, watch those people fight. If you put together a halfway decent undercard, too, that can only help. And it feels like a big time like capital e event that's all they want to do and when they see an opportunity to do

something like this like you know i wouldn't be surprised if we end up getting via netflix and mvp john jones versus francis and ganu and it's but it's 10 years from now you know it's something like that like the same way we're getting here where it's just like that's so very m mhm a where it's like we end up getting these fights but years after they would have really meant something thing. That's kind of what you're getting with Ronda Rousey and Gina Carrano, probably not going to even be a very competitive fight. I think Ronda Rousey just walks right through Gina Corona as she wants to. But it does achieve the thing. All of them don't matter about competitive balance, right? Like it's just like you said,

capital E. That's what they're doing. They can make money at this and they're actually putting the pressure on the UFC to respond. I almost wonder if the UFC wouldn't have already announced the White House card like in the form that they were looking at it, you know what I mean, if this news didn't come out because there's a possibility that they were putting together like, oh shit, now we got to kind of do something a little more here. You know what I mean?

It's at least a possibility. I'm just speculating, but that's kind of the, I think that that's kind of the idea is that you make these events count. They're profitable. Usually, like, the other places that have tried it, you know, even a lead ex,

you go back down the line and they just couldn't figure out a way to make it profitable. They couldn't sustain. They couldn't compete with the, see, this changes, this makes the UFC have to rethink things. That's, I mean, that's a different sort of setup in the end. So if they get into MMA and they do it in any kind of real way, like, meaning trying to do a few big events in a year, that's what they're going to do.

You know what I mean? They're going to do it in a way that finally, honestly, it probably makes the UFC say like, okay, what do we do next? Yeah, I mean, you mentioned I've heard this thrown around too, that the idea that Netflix and MVP, getting into this would make the UFC feel like, okay, the White House card has to be really, really big. If they didn't already feel that way, though, they're crazy. Yeah. Because you have hyped this thing so much.

People have spent so much time talking about it. All right. We're going to take a bath on this away. We're still months away from it. You've hyped it so much. And you've also made it so that every time Dana White is on something now, Every time he's talking to anybody, he's answering questions about the White House car without saying anything. All he's doing, all he's been doing for months is telling you what's not going to be on there.

Because people keep suggesting things. What about this guy and this guy? And he'll be like, nope, not doing that. This is the most disappointing thing. Yeah. And it's like, and here we are. I was answering this in my mailbag and maybe Chuck, you can tell me if you remember another period like this. I can't recall a period in the kind of the modern era of the UFC in the ever since the days where we started doing, you know,

30, 40 events a year. I cannot recall another time where we've made it two full months into the new year and you're looking around and going, what do we have on the calendar? I know. What titles are going to go up for grabs when? Like if you're looking at right where we are now, and if you don't count the BMF title, which kind of don't. It's for fun and it's a fun gimmick, but it's not a UFC title.

If you look around now, you go, here we are, two full months into the year, there's nothing. There's absolutely nothing on the books. And it has to be because you're saving a lot of stuff. You're trying to make a big splash with that White House event. The problem is that's going to have an effect both before and after because you're going to, it means weeks and months beforehand where you're not going to have as many titles available to you. And it's going to mean weeks and months afterwards. So if you're doing all that, if you're making all those sacrifices, that White House card has to be amazing.

No, you're right, man. It is, and it's, it's fascinating as we talk about this because you realize if they're not, if they're just withholding and they're trying to figure out, okay, let's see. If we plug this one, this one, this one, or whatever it is, these title fights, and it's going to be on the White House. Obviously, that affects, we've talked about this a lot, the preceding months and the subsequent months. It's like, it's going to focus all on one single event, and then you've got to figure out a business that can continue to be hot beyond that, you know, and before that. So right now, like the beforehand, like you're mentioning, is just such a, it's such a barren place. And so,

like, to answer your initial question, no, I can't remember. There, there, there, usually hyping up something like if we're in January usually they've got a memorial day something and they're like hey this is going to be a crazy thing here they're already dodding all of this out right now this is i've never seen it at this withheld like we just don't know what direction they're going um the fascinating thing though is just how they navigate the card like in general like how are they how are they going to do that and still have like i saw it to pour you're basically talking and he's like he would not say whether he's going to be on the white house and i'm sure we're going to talk about this but he said he said

he'll be back in the summer. If you were going to hold him, you would have some answer there, right? You'd be like, okay, he's going to come on after the White House card. So there's at least an encore beyond it. Like, you would know something. But right now, we don't know nothing, man.

I don't remember any time like this. Yeah, well, listen, lads. I sent an email. We had all the sections aren't out very well. The Poir-house segment is later. Oh, sorry about that. Yeah, the point. He needs to go strictly by the book.

Do you know how many different segues I formulated during those? We're 45 minutes in. Get in here. And talk about the sowing discontent among UFC fighters. Roll the Sean O'Malley clip, please, Andy, for God's sake. That, it's, for me, it's so hard to believe just because, like, I did see it, I heard it. I've been told Tim told me, do you see that? I'm like, that doesn't mean it's true.

I don't know. It could very well be true. I can't imagine it being true. Zufa boxing. It's like they're paying out. I don't even know who Connor Ben is. I don't know. He's like supposedly a pretty big name in boxing.

I've never fucking heard. I never heard of him. Yeah, they really paid this Ben. Is Ben Johns? Connor. Connor Ben. Connor. Connor Ben.

Connor Ben. They really, Ben Jones used to be a use factor. You see better. They really paid him $15 million. It's like, I wouldn't blame you for going to box. Yeah. It's crazy how you just put in so much work in the UFC,

put it so much work in the UFC, build this name, create this character, be this per star. you know, and it's like, I'm not making fucking $15 million a fight. Yeah. But it's also a business. If they think that's a good business move

and that guy's going to bring in money, it's like, I get it. I don't think anything personal in business, business is business. Then folks writes, if you're familiar with the stages of grief, you'll note that O'Malley went from denial to anger to acceptance with a Homer Simpson-like speed.

He started out wondering how in the world a boxer who he's never held a major world title could get a one-fight deal worth more than the entire payroll of several UFC events combined, then ended up concluding that things just be like that sometimes. So what are you going to do? Ben, I mean, let's be honest.

It's not just Omali. We heard Sean Strickland going off last week. I even heard you name drop a little bit of info on the co-main event podcast about potentially Alex Pereira not being too happy about this. We've also heard from a number of different fighters just being like, what the hell, guys? We have seen this before. are you feeling that something could be a brewing among these UFC fighters? Or like Sean O'Malley, will they quickly get back to, eh, you know, this is what they're going to do.

First of all, thanks for listening to the co-manevent podcast. We do love to hear from our co-maniacs all over the world. Yeah, I mean, it is sort of a predictable response from UFC fighters. You knew that they were kind of going to go this way. First of all, I love this. I love everything about that Sean O'Malley clip. It's great. Because for one thing, to be having this conversation about fighter pay and sitting in a chair that could only be described as a throne, it's hilarious.

But he does go so quickly. He's in denial first, right? Can't believe that could possibly be true. I never even heard of this guy. They're going to pay him $15 million for one fight. And then he's angry about it. Like, I've been in the UFC all this time, built myself into his character, built myself into something, you know, like a star. I've never made $15 million for $1.5.

And then, hey, you know, it's business. What are you going to do? there's the acceptance by the end, you know, and he does it all in like 20 seconds. It's credible. And I do think, you know, when Michael Venom Page was on the boys in the back earlier this week and they're asking him, you know, do you think this is a rallying point for UFC fighters? Do you think it gives them something to unite over and say like, hey, clearly these guys have the money. They can pay people better. We don't deserve, like, we're the main TKO product here for, and we've been the best. backbone of it. And now they're just going to decide, hey, we want to get into boxing. We're throwing around huge sums of money that no USC fighters, even sniffing.

And I thought it was very honest of him where he was like, I don't know if it gives us a way to do something about it. It gives us something to complain about. And that is, I think, how this usually goes. And that's how, like people were saying, do you think the UFC is worried that once this news leaks of how much they paid him that they're going to have a fighter revolt on their hands? I think they feel like we know the rhythms of these kinds of stories. Fighters are going to get mad. They're going to grumble about it. A few of them who are not as concerned about reprisals are going to speak out in the media about it.

It'll be a story for a few weeks. And then they'll realize that they don't really want to take the next step to do anything about it because, you know, all the obstacles that are in their way and also like how much of your career are you willing to sacrifice now for benefits that will. most likely be seen by fighters of the future. It's always this conversation. They get mad, they grumble about it, and then they go back to work, and they go back to accepting whatever the UFC wants to give them. And I think that the UFC has felt like, all right, we've been through this before, a number of different times, but the fighters are so psychologically beaten down and they feel like there is no other way. We can get pissed off about it, but this is the only way the world works. And they'll accept it eventually. Just the way you saw Sean O'Malley work his

way around to acceptance very quickly. I think that's a good. I think that's a good way. I think that's exactly what the UFC thing's going to happen because the fighters are going like yeah this sucks yeah this does tell you the money is there i mean but i think they already knew that i mean i mentioned this chuck in the mailbag you remember when we did that that fighter survey for the athletic where we surveyed close to 200 fighters and we asked them what's the involved in that okay just just for the record yes yes you were thank you thank you the most yes i spend go ahead we yeah we you know the thing you heard 70% of them were saying the biggest issue we face right now is that the pay is so low. We go out of pocket for so much of our training and everything. We take so much financial risk and the pay

is low. They already knew that's an issue. It's where do they how do they get from knowing we're being screwed to doing something about it? That's where they don't know what to do for the next step. I just want to insert that like you know that Alonzo morning meme where he's like sitting there and he's shaking his head. Then he's like, and then he kind of comes. Yeah, yes, yes, yeah. It's literally like that every single time. Do you guys remember when, I think it was the Dublin card, when Connor McGregor, I think for Tita gave him like a Rolex,

he gave him like a, like some $50,000 Rolex gifted it to Connor McGregor. I can remember even then fighters would kind of grumble. And then that kind of like, you know, special treatment kind of went on for a while with Connor. And you felt like this was all unprecedented because we're seeing like people, hey, man, if you can do that for him, you could do that for more of us. if he can get these and this and this. And that's all it was. In the end, it was just nothing but bitching.

And guys would be talking about it for years. I mean, they talked about it for a long time. I anticipate it being just like that, like what Ben just laid out. If you talk to fighters and you guys both have behind the, nobody's, I, it's rare that you come across a guy that's like, I'm perfectly content with what I'm getting. But it's just their browbeat. They're in a league where they just, they fit the structure of where they're at. And they make their peace with that. I remember talking to Joe Lozahn.

I always mentioned this. And I was like, why do you like, because he was, he had like, I don't know how many UFC fights. And he was still fighting sometimes for like 48 and 46 and 36. He was still doing like, it was very low for like a veteran. And he was like, well, I tell him I want matchups where it's guys that I can get performance bonuses, you know. He wasn't worried about a title. He was just worrying about collecting, you know, $50,000 at the end. So he was kind of looking that as like the full purse.

He's like, if I want to move up and pay, then I'm going to be. facing the monsters of the division constantly, and I'm not going to be able to do that. And I mean, this is how UFC fighters think. It's a whole different ball game than what big time. Not that Joe Lozond was a big time in May champion or something like that, but even the champions, they're just used to a certain pay, whereas boxing champions, especially ones who have that kind of draw,

have a completely distorted view of it compared to the UFC. And, I mean, they're pointing it out. They're pointing it out. So we're going to hear that grumbling for a while now. I think the $7.7 billion price tag, though, with paramount. I mean, if you just see that alone and you're looking and you're like, I got to have to fly my corner out and I've got to do all this stuff. I mean, that would piss me off.

If I was fighting, I'd be like, well, I'm making 12 and 12 for this fight. I'm paying for like four people to fly in from Brazil. It should be maddening to these fighters. That's, you remember we're talking about the Ussick news, what it could possibly be. Did it break? It has just broke. Okay. So Usoc.

is taking on RICO Verhoeven at the pyramids of Giza. What? Is this a madlibs? Are you doing a madlips right now? Oh my Lord. Here we go. Here's Turkey.

Legends collide where legends were built on May 23rd under the shadows of the ancient giants. Alexander Hussick takes on Rico Verhoeven at the iconic pyramids of Giza. This is like another dimension. We just got one in school. It's glory.

and Giza. What is happening. Oh, my Lord. This is. Glory and Giza, that one writes itself, you know. I know. It is a, it's a, it has ring logos here. I'm looking for Zufa.

Sela, WBC. Um, it does not seem to be in the Zufa, but we said that about Conor Ben as well. Um, a beautiful poster here with, with Ussick and Rico Verhoove and appearing like hieroglyphs. Um, well. That's wild, man. We're in a different, we're just talking about net. kind of throwing these things up and then you get something like this. What a, what a wild thing.

They had talked about last year, right, doing a fight at Alcatraz, and they were mentioning all these different strange backdrops that they wanted to do. And I guess they're fulfilling with the pyramids of Giza. I guess they're fulfilling some of that. It's the zone as well. I figured Netflix. Yeah. It has a DeZone logo there.

That is an absolutely insane bookin lots. Oh, yeah, man. Good for Rico. Yeah, that's a big get, man And yes, it is for the WBC World Heavyweight Championship as well I mean, what a debut for Young Verhoofen Crazy man

Think Rico just, just kick him once I know, I was gonna say Just to see, just for the hell of it Some memory, bam, like Yeah, you know, you get, you take a shot, You get wobbled, you kind of forget where you are And the reflexes kick in, the next thing you know Your front kick in a boxer in his chest, that could be fun

Yeah. The, man, doing it, what ideas are they turning down when they're going, they're sitting around being like, all right, so we've narrowed it down to a few options. It's either pyramids of Giza, you know, Roman Coliseum or the moon. You know, like, how much does it cost to get to the moon? Will you look that up? All right, we're doing Giza. We don't Giza. That's wild bit.

But, but dude, given like now what you saw what Rico's into, like, I mean, completely smart for him not to go to the UFC. Why would he again? I always didn't think that was an option. I really never thought that was a real thing. If boxing was an option for him and a name like that is an option for him, I just didn't see how UFC could compete on that level. Obviously, we're hearing this Connor Ben stuff, but we know sell it as paying for that now. is it is quite a like to your point joke this feels like a Netflix event it feels like two worlds colliding it feels like a spectacle more than a title fight like I'm like crazy like I'm a huge regal fan

but I'm not giving him a hope in hell against Usik in a boxing match I'm not either ultimately I mean I'm processing this on the fly but but I would like his chances better than I would have in Ganu going against Fury and like he put on a good fight right like i little longer in the tooth maybe we'll kind of looking at the uh you know looking at the horizon ready to kind of get out you never know but i i agree with you if he's if he looks anything like the usic we've been watching for some like the last bunch of years um it shouldn't be competitive but again these types of things and this is the event with the capital e thing that you've been with stym out like it doesn't really matter about

the competitive the imagination is now the thing that we're trying to work with right Right? Like, it's all about like, let's do something crazy and draw a bunch of people to look at it. Yeah. That's exactly what it is. And, you know, it kind of works. I just, I know I'm not saying anything that nobody has mentioned before, but eventually the oil's going to run out. I say that as just sort of a global fact of what it means to have finite resources. There were only so many dinosaurs. I don't know what you're talking. Hustle fuels, baby. There's only so much of it in the ground. You know, we're not making more of it at a quick enough rate. So eventually that oil's going to run out and with it, the oil money.

And somebody's going to be sitting around in the year 2022 or 2230 or something like that going like, you know, there used to be so much money from this stuff called oil. They were just being like, screw it, let's put on a boxing match at the pyramids. and didn't they have to worry about it. They were going to make that money back at all. They were just glad to do it, just glad to throw their names at them. It's crazy. And I know there must be boxing promoters.

We mentioned Eddie Heard earlier, and I think it was him who was talking about, like, working with Turkey Al-Shake is a little bit different. And not everybody is going to be up for it because he's like, you know, you've got to be willing to wake up at 5 o'clock in the morning and you've already got to be willing to like where you're saying, all right, let's see if we can iron this out. and then we can announce it, and then you realize he's already announced it. Like stuff like that can happen. And so I'm sure there's like a lot of these other like boxing promoters are looking around. They, they also open up their phones,

see, oh, okay, you're doing Ussick and Verhoven at the pyramids of Giza? All right, man, fine. I'm just double checking to make sure that it's not the Luxor in Vegas that they're,

make sure it's not the, the pyramid that's the Bass Pro shop in Memphis. Because that's a big one. one too. That's a big one too. Oh well. I mean, back to the running order of the show, boys. And yeah, see, look, you need to not hold so tightly onto your outline for how, because this is a great example of why. You got to be, you got to get into a little bit of a flow state here. That's B.T. Oh, boys. Oh, my God. It's like, we got White House news. We know the full card, but hold on. I still want to get through my whole list of topics. Yep, no, says here on Piz's outline that he wrote in Microsoft Word.

That's right. That we are supposed to be talking about UFC fight night, Mexico City, so. Oh, yeah, that's also coming up. Lads, Jake Paul, he contacted it, Ilya.

Again, right, but here's the thing, right? We talk about this fighters and money and whatnot. Do you not think it gets annoying that everyone else kind of just says them, ha ha, you don't make as much money as us over and over. Like, this is happening quite a bit. And here's Jake

doing that exact number to it um um oh bro to be honest 15 million dollars listen listen that should bother you it doesn't bother me when no it doesn't bother me you know why because I make more than that no you don't bro how many fights did you have last year how many fights did I have one yeah okay so then you should have been on the Forbes sport ago top paid athletes list then by what you're saying not yet not yet not yet not yet not yet there are a lot of great athletes and I always I always like try to combat about about like with the great athletes like who gives a fuck all right you brought up the money you

brought up the money you mentioned about like you bought you dad and whatever he's saying you have to do that. Yeah, he's our boss, of course. He created the place where we have the platform and the chance to fight. Aidan Ross, he didn't want any part of that conversation, man. I mean, he started, but like, you can tell he's friends with everybody and he's like, oh my God, this is awkward. This is awkward. What college juniors first off-campus apartment are we doing that interview? It's Miami, man. I've been to that apartment. I bought weed at that apartment before and sat there with the curtain that's barely hanging on.

We got a bed by the line. Yeah, we got a like a neon sign in the background. And I got to hear about the guy's pet iguana before I can be like, all right, so I came. Watch it meets us cricket or whatever. Oscar Losef is telling us it's not even a real studio, guys. He's just garnished with that information. We have faked it to look like where you bought weed in Miami that time. Okay.

Well, mission accomplished, I guess. Toddry on purpose and crushing it. I do. It is like, it's a weird thing for Jake Paul just call up and like, you know, he's not wrong necessarily and what he's saying. And you could tell if you were wrong, I would tell him. He would be able to be like, no, no, no, I made way more money than that. And he's out there being like, you get paid like an NFL rookie.

I know. That was the line. Yeah. And like that's. And you're just like, oh, man, that's got to sting a little bit because, because, because, he's right. When he mentions things like, you know, I told Patty, I'll fly you out on a private jet. I'll give you a million dollars to kind of spar me.

I'm like, if there's really this discrepancy and like, and I know that he's saying like the UFC won't allow it. But like, dude, if I'm, you know, if we're talking about pay and you can make a million dollars to go spar Jake Paul, I would be doing that in a heartbeat. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But, um, I think you should. I think I would do it in the heartbeat. Make a great story. Hell yeah.

At least I would have something from that, you know, besides the million dollars in the free plane ride. Yeah. It's, as we said earlier, Ilya was kind of like, oh, yeah, I'd love to fight Armine, Justin Gagee, all this stuff. And as again, as you pointed out earlier, we still don't know what's happening with the White House. What we do know about the White House, lads, it's going to cost a shitload of money. That is one thing that even Mark Shapiro on this quarterly call admitted to the people listening to him, where I guess who are involved in this company too, let's have a listen to Mark Shapiro telling on everyone that we're going to be in the old red when it comes to the White House.

By the time we get done all is said and done with the event and the, what we pay the fighters and the fan fest we're going to have, that could move north. It's definitely not moving south. It could move north. Bottom line is it's still a moving target. We are working to determine on a parallel track a package of inventory in and around. the weekend of events that we can monetize primarily with corporate partners, B-to-B players, which will offset half of the spend. Even if that 60 goes up or rides up on us, we believe we can

offset half of the spend. Today we see it as 60 offsetting 30. Now I would mention we have several current and prospective partners that are pursuing multi-year partnerships with TKO assets that likely will be inclusive of the White House event. We have a lot of current and prospective partners that would like to be involved in our inquiring about inventory as part of their greater partnership deals they either already have

or are negotiating with us for the future. But I want to be clear about something. We will not profit from the White House event independently. We will not be making money on America's two-reaching. 250th anniversary. This is an investment for the long term. This is about earned media. This is about sampling, new fans, casual viewers, a spectacle and a stage that will ultimately expand our audience, our viewership, and our success on Paramount Plus. Well, there we have a voice. Puck News put out a report saying the event will cost 60 million.

They also said that the date was going to be changed to June 26th, but Dana was not too fucking happy about this. And guess what he blamed us? Media is so full of shit. White House fight, date is the same. Sunday, June 14th. I'd say you're very relieved to hear that, guys. It's still going to be June 14th.

I do think it's interesting, you know, you heard Mark Shapiro just be like, hey, we are not profiting off of the celebration of America's 250th birthday. Why are we doing it June 14th, though? Why are we doing it on a Sunday? You know, not usually when we do it. We're not doing a birthday celebration for America so much as we're doing a birthday celebration for Donald Trump. That's what this is. That's what this is going to be.

And we all know that. When you show up to this thing and you're watching it, there's going to be a Trump cam. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get a belt at some point. Something like that's going to be a Trump event, not an America event, you know. But the stuff he said about like, hey, we're not looking to turn a profit on this event. We're looking, we're seeing this event as an investment in the future. I do think there's something to that.

I think there's something to that on a couple different levels. Honestly, I think what you're actually doing is your part of it is continuing to cozy up to a presidential administration that will turn around and give you stuff that you need or stuff that you want. It's the same way where, you know, you can have a fighter where he has some visa issues and he can get on the phone to the big guy directly. And they can be like, don't worry about it. We're going to let you go wherever you need to go. And like they go, all right, that's part of what you're getting out of your relationship with Donald Trump. But it is true that you should see this as an opportunity to get new viewers because even I know you guys have probably experienced this too. But as soon as they started talking seriously about this White House event, I heard from a whole bunch of people who just know that I'm.

I cover this and they are in no way fight fans. And they were hitting me up to just be like, is this true? Are they really going to do a UFC event at the White House? I'm sure you're getting tons of that level of interest from a lot of people who are not fans. And so they, the curiosity factor is going to be so high. There's going to be a whole bunch of people who show up and be like, all right, let's see what this even looks like.

Let me, I got to, I got to, I got to know. I got to find out. And some of those people, if you do it right, you ought to be able to convert to fans. And Paramount Plus, I'm sure is hoping that you can convert them to subscribers. But it also depends on when they get there out of curiosity, you've got to show them something that makes them go. All right. I didn't know that the UFC were putting on these kind of events. When's the next one?

When can I watch it? Like, you've got to make sure you're really delivering there. Because if you turn up and all it is is like a pro-Trump event and the fights don't really deliver. And especially if you do try to put on nothing but title fights essentially, That creates a little bit of a logistical problem because, you know, what if you get four straight five round boring decisions, you know, that could turn people off. Which usually happens when they try to stack it up like that. Yeah, that can always happen. And so, like, there's this part of that that's going to be out of your control, but you do need to put on a really great event in order for you to maximize that opportunity because you're kind of only going to get it once.

I think that this is we were talking about this a couple weeks ago, the ultimate heel, you said that somebody had pointed out what they should do. Or maybe, were we talking about this? They were saying like they should be a radical left. Like this is their personas to show up in the radical left. And they're like, this is, you know, what an event to rule that? Pull up in a Prius. Yeah, exactly. This would be the moment if you were trying to get that guy across.

Yeah, well, one guy, maybe the only fighter that we've heard on the UFC roster saying that he will not, in fact, be interested in competing at the White House event. Might be Brandon Moreno, who was very confused at the, at the first. this week's media event when asked, are you hoping to get a quick turnaround to compete at the White House? I think we have the footage of this. I'll read it out to you guys. There's been a whole lot of talk about the USC White House event. This is the interviewer.

In this case, there might be enough time, depending on how things go this Saturday. Moreno's asked. Would you also raise your hand possibly be on the White House card? Moreno is taking this in and he is looking at this man. Like he's completely insane. Brother, I want you to tell me why I would want to be there, he says. well it's very special isn't it says the reporter for what says morano for the company for you

ask him for the company uh i am not interested thank you very much is what morano says there and i mean i not interested is putting it lightly right like that guy's face was like are you seriously fucking asking me about this boy house card i mean i don't think i've seen that kind of reaction from any ufc fighter about this yeah it's kind of surprising that you don't hear more of that honestly because the UFC when you look at it like the UFC roster is way more diverse and international than most pro sports rosters are like be a fighters come from all over the world and you are putting on this event that is very much like America centric but also Trump administration centric and the Trump administration has spent a lot of time alienating a lot of other

countries I mean trust me I was just in Denmark they we we forgot and moved on very quickly from a threat to invade Greenland. They have not. They're still mad about it. And there's, yes, see, exactly. Exactly. You can try to explain to the Danes like, oh, hey, don't worry. He's just saying stuff, man.

He'll move on to something else in 30 minutes. But they're going, why would you ever say that to it? Like, they're holding on to that. And I'm sure there's a bunch of other, like, fighters from countries where they feel the same. And, you know, weirdly, the only other fighter I can think of who had a similar type position about, I don't want to fight at the white. White House. I mean, there's been a couple people, but Sean Strickland, surprisingly, was one of the guys who came out. And he was like, why do I want to go and fight in front of the Epstein list at this thing? Because I'm telling you right now, you want to do one of those prediction market things where we can bet on absolutely everything in our culture now? Bet on somebody set the over and under of how many people are named in the Epstein files that will be at this UFC White House car.

It's like they do with Sean Strickland. Cut his mic. Peezy. Cut his mic right now. He's crazy. He's been in the same for too long. Set it at 12 over or under. You know? And so, and somebody else made a similar point where they were like, I like to fight in these huge crowds of MMA fans where they heard UFC is coming to Calgary or something.

UFC is coming to St. Louis and they went, they bought tickets. They showed up for the first prelim. They're hardcore fans. They love this sport. And they're very excited about it and they know something about it. And that's probably not the crowd you're getting for this one, Just from what we've heard, like, you're not getting a whole bunch of, like, hardcore fans. You're getting, you know, a bunch of elites who want to see and be seen.

And, and that's going to be a different crowd. And so I can understand it's been a couple fighters who said something along those lines where it gives off, here you are fighting for the pleasure of the emperor kind of vibe and not, I am fighting for the hardcore community of this sport vibe. So I can understand why there'd be some fighters who just be like, that, that is not as exciting to me. America's turning 250 years old been, all right? Yeah. That's what they're celebrating.

The next month it is. How about a bit of patriotism? It's your country's birthday, mate, okay? That's crazy. Brandon Moreno, he is in the main event against Lonair Capna, a big step up for the UK charge in the main event of this Mexico City car this weekend. You spoke to Marilyn Vera, Chuck, and you kind of framed it like this dude's fighting for his career.

Is that the feeling you get from speaking to Chita? Well, that's how he framed it to me, you know? I was a little bit surprised. We've seen guys, he's a popular fighter. You know, he's on a co-main event in a big venue, and this is where he started his career and all that. So I know he's lost a few in a row. There have been against very good guys.

I did not anticipate him thinking that basically his job could be on the line. It didn't really occur to me when I went into the interview, but it could be that he's just viewing it this way, and he, you know, he wants his back against the wall. Kind of felt like he was embracing this moment to, you know, get it all right. And so he was training up at Big Bear, trying to get used to the elevation and all that stuff. And he seemed pretty brass tax, man. So, I mean, it'd be fun to see, like, what he does.

But I think in his mind, he does feel like, hey, this could be for my job. I think that would be a little extreme for a guy like that who has, you know, they let, how long was Alvi around? I mean, like, there's guys like that. They let fight through seven loss. I can't imagine that they would really cut Cheeto unless he. And even then, like, he's not knocked out enough. Like even if he got knocked out, I don't think that this would really be his last fight. Too beloved, right?

Yeah, he's too below. Too much of a guy. Yeah. It's a good card. But lads, I believe there's also congratulations in order. ASPE award event coverage for 2025 uncrowned. I believe now, am I correct in saying that this is about the Hulk Hogan event? This is the event that speak of here.

And you guys were absolutely killing it that week. Not really my wheelhouse, I will admit, but I mean, I read everything. thing you guys did that week. A huge, huge feather in the cap of one crown. And another nod to the great work of Shaheen Al Shadi. Come on up here and get your flowers, lots. Congratulations. Let me just.

Thank you. Thank you, Pizzi. You know, you want to talk about me being off places and having to, I wrote a Hulk Hogan column for this thing and I was in New York City. That was the time when I was in New York City in the summertime. And I thought, I thought, I thought, oh, he's so strong. Here we go. Yes.

I knew. I knew you were going to bring that up. You can't believe the mass. He can carry that kind of mass in his frame. It's incredible. And gave us so. Yeah. I, you know what?

It's a thing now where I kind of am starting to feel a little bit of a sense of responsibility when I go on these trips because I remember I went to New York in the summertime. And then it was this news that Hulk Hogan had died. And, you know, that was, of course, relevant for us. I had to sit down in a coffee shop in New York City, just right where I was and write a column for it. and then I went to Paris last spring and George Foreman died. That's right. Yeah. And, uh, and wrote something on that.

I know. Then I, I went, uh, you know, to Denmark and, uh, Robert Duval died and Jesse Jackson died. And I was just sort of like, I, I need to really start taking this more seriously. Be prepared for disaster. Geez. Don't hold it. When Ben travels fucking. And come here, did you get much shit in Scandinavia or do people honestly, aren't you?

Oh, well, you're American. Are you here to invade us? No, they're way too nice to do any of that. But I did hang out with my good friend, Chris Rini, who is an American artist who now lives outside of Copenhagen. And he was talking about some of his experiences with the Danes where they are kind of like, hey, what the hell, man? What the hell's going on? And he's having to be our American representative. He's doing a good job.

He's the guy you want out there as an American. representative, but he has been hearing it. Yeah, it's a great place. It looked like a great time. Honestly, it's a fucking fantastic. They just do shit better to Scandinavians. I don't know what it is. They have some stuff figured out for sure.

They really do you fly over Greenland at all? Did you get a chance to work at? I think maybe we did. Are you a government plant? You and ready. Are you guys both government plants? That's what I would say. You know, I'm just saying.

Here's the thing, Chad and I were talking about this White House event and about, you know, the titles you could conceivably put up for grabs. And one of the questions we came around to is, do you want to bring Hamza Tchamayev to the White House to defend the UFC middleweight title when you are going to have a whole bunch of these people who don't normally watch the sport? Maybe they're tuning in. They're learning about these people for the first time. Do you want to have the guy who is the preferred fighter of the Chechen warlord? And oh, by the way, he looks like a James Bond henchman. Yeah.

And Chad was a matter. He's like, can you imagine? This is a Tom Grisham novel waiting to happen that somebody turns their back on Hamzaa Tchamaya while he's warming up. And then he's gone. And the next thing you know, somebody rounds a corner. And he's in an office in the White House with a flashlight between his teeth, rifling through files. You know, like, it just seems like somebody you'd bring there. And he'd be like, okay, is this guy actually a secretly a spy?

I mean, I've got some personal news as well. got a bit of delivery area this week. And look at the time, Ben, I can remember you're thinking, oh, oh, no, it's okay. Spend it at the rule out, we'll make. Watch this show. Let's just get this out here, okay? Oh, my God. I'm wearing history.

That's right. What does that say? Zufa Boxing one. That's only half the show. I might take down half my set showing the world when I'm about to show you, but it's worth it. Because here we go. Got the headphones come off. So abuse me all you want.

He's going to do it. He's going to do it. isn't he? I thought he was just talking. There it is. I was there. Can't miss that. He was not in fact there is the thing. You weren't there. What are you talking about? How would I

got this t-shirt? You were there. How would I got this t-shirt? I've also got sent me a lovely package. I mean, it's Danvo Bronco stuff there. I mean, trying to convert him. You know what I mean? Amoe records, Frank, shout out. You probably wish you had this shit. I have it. You don't. That is the main thrust of this.

Whole thing. Lads, before we go, we better ask if there are any super chats. There are indeed. Yeah. How are we looking, Andy?

Should the PFL try and trade for Armand? Dakota for Armin? Well, we're still doing, it's been a while since we even talked about a trade. The last one was hilarious, though, because it was like, it was, why would they make the trade?

This one's actually, that one's getting a lot of, a lot of traction online, man. He is getting, in a huge amount of attraction. Dana doesn't seem to be too fond of them. I think they want to code her from being completely honest. She is in an ironclad contract.

Is it the crazy? Can you imagine Armin's face when they told him he'd been traded to the PFL? Dan wants to see it. Bring your playbook. You know, it's like. Shows up to the UFCPI, enters his code and the door won't open. Not going to sugarcoat it. He has to think you've been traded.

Hardest part of the job for us, Armand. I mean, I don't think it's the craziest idea, but don't think it's on the menu just yet. Anything else, there, any? Can't believe Ben's for the opera without warning. Yeah, you guys were all just lining up to see Rigoletto, weren't you? It's been around since 1852. Andy, is that the real on Air Jordan, by the way? He could actually go.

Like, that is his kind of thing. You ruined that for him, Ben. I didn't tell you how Rigoletto ends up becoming the author of his own destruction. There's still a lot. I'll tell you one thing that's funny. I didn't realize they do this. And I'm kind of grateful they did. You show up to the opera.

It's an Italian. It's just constant singing in Italian. It's not like a musical where there's some talking and then we sing. It's only singing, you guys. It's in Italian. I do not speak Italian. They've got a screen. Yeah, they got a screen above the stage that has the subtitles of what's going on in the song.

but it's also, it was in Danish and English. And there were times where just reading the translation made me go, did they first translate this into Danish and then from Danish into English? Because there are times where it's just like a little, it's weirdly blunt or something or, you know, it's like Rigoletto sees a sack on the stage and says, oh, look, a sack. You know, like stuff like that.

I mean, something's different in Ireland. I tell you that one. Yeah. But, um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's only one sack out here. You know that joke. And I that was it.

That is everything. Well, lads, what a day it's been. Are you from Kevin? I'm not from Kevin. All right. All right, dude. You know what they are. This guy.

This guy, Pee-Ce, I'm telling you, Chuck, he'd peel an orange in his pocket. If there was work in the bed, he'd sleep on the floor. Oh, fucking hit me with all the lines, boys. Well, what an adventure this has been? I mean, from breaking news to me trying to get through my exhaustive list of topics. I mean, another crazy day. Please keep coming up with that list. We do all enjoy it.

Just don't expect us to stick to it. No, I won't. I don't worry I've got like some type of anxiety issue when we go anywhere off. I'm like, oh, God. Oh, God. I got to steer this ship back. Well, listen, we did it. Lads, who knows what could happen after the show.

Dana White's got some announcements. I mean, any ideas? The word in the street. The word on the street. Ah. I want to look to tell you off. It's like the Apollo. They're coming out with the like umbrella to grab them.

Exactly. Well, listen, we love you so much. We'll be back next week. Stay tuned for Dana's IG News. Perhaps we'll react to that next week. But we love his very much. Have a wonderful weekend. Mwah.