The Ariel Helwani Show - WWE star Karrion Kross in studio, Renato Moicano, Michael Carter-Williams, On The Nose, more

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Ariel Helwani and the Boys in the Back kick off the show by answering your On the Nose questions (06:57).Renato ‘Money’ Moicano returns ahead of his fight against Beneil Dariush at UFC 317 to discuss Gilbert Burns’ loss, his short-notice title shot against Islam Makhachev, opening a gym in South Florida, his viral social media posts, Arman Tsarukyan’s tough spot, Paddy Pimblett, and Jon Jones possibly retiring. He finishes with some financial insights (1:01:38).NBA veteran Michael Carter-Williams previews his May 29 boxing debut alongside trainer Jeovanny Estela and discusses how he got into boxing, meeting his trainer, transitioning from basketball, his future in the sport, keeping a close eye on MISFITS, dealing with nerves, and more (1:32:48).WWE star Karrion Kross joins in-studio to talk about his recent meteoric run, leaning into honesty, his YouTube channel and documentary, his confusingly long layoff, Josh Barnett’s Bloodsport event, taking inspiration from ‘The Smashing Machine,’ his limited involvement in WrestleMania 41, his issues with Logan Paul, being released and other hardships, his relationship with his wife in and out of the business, his beginnings in combat sports, the release of his book, and many more stories from his life and career (1:56:25).Ariel is rejoined by the crew to round out the show and answer your hard-hitting Super Chats (3:22:56).

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Err-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r- 2000. And 25, hello again everyone. I sure hope you're doing well. I am doing okay. Feeling a little bit, a little bit like, I don't know if it's the Jackman flu or if it's the mysterious Frank cold. I don't know what it is, but there's, or it's just the allergies. Or maybe it's all that screaming and partying

because of our New York Knicks making it to the Eastern Conference Finals, Game One tonight at the Mecca, Pacers coming to town. Oh, I can't wait. I was all with my good friend Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessy. Yesterday we recorded an interview that aired today. That was a lot of fun.

From the studio right here, it's a great pleasure and honor to still have the relationship with Bill. I can learn a lot of fun. From the studio right here, it's a great pleasure and honor to still have the relationship with Bill. I can learn a lot from Bill, who built an empire, has had people come and go, but doesn't seem to hold grudges, at least not towards me. Obviously we did the Ringer Show for three years,

but I'm so, so happy that we still are buddies, that we still have a relationship, a working relationship that he still has me on the pod and that he invited me on to talk about my next beating his Celtics. So that was a lot of fun. I'm so very much looking forward to today's program for multiple reasons.

Number one, we have one of our favorite guests, Henat Moekano on. He of course is returning to action on June 28th in Las Vegas to fight Benildi Ryush. That fight was supposed to happen in January. He got the title shot instead. We haven't talked to him since the Monday after that fight. So a lot to get into there with Money Mo.

I call him Money Mo. Others call him Money Moikano. After handout to Moikano, we're going to be joined by Michael Carter Williams. Now you may be asking yourself, all right, why Michael Carter Williams? Michael Carter Williams, 2014 NBA Rookie of the Year, fellow Syracuse Orange man, had a great career in the NBA, played for the likes of the Philadelphia 76ers, Chicago Bulls, Milwaukee Bucks, Orlando Magic, that was his last stop. Huge MMA fan, huge combat sports fan.

His daughter, if you follow him on social media, very active in Jiu Jitsu. But the main reason why we're having him on, and yes I may sneak in a question or two about Nick Spacers. The main reason is next Thursday, May 29th, he'll be competing in his very first boxing match. A three-round heavyweight fight. The event that he's competing on, which is called Broad Street Brawl, will raise funds for Big Vision Community, a non-profit organization dedicated to supporting young adults in recovery from substance abuse. So, big Michael Carter Williams, former NBA point guard, scored over 4,000 points in his career, 11th pick overall in 2013, rookie of the year in 2014, is looking jacked, is looking swole. We actually have a picture of him of how he looks these days. He's looking good. I've seen some highlights of him hitting mitts. Look at that guy.

That's a problem right there. How tall is Michael Carter Williams? I'm going to guess he's 6'4". 6'6". 6'6". It's a big boy. I'm gonna guess he's six foot four? Six six. Six six. It's a big boy. So he'll join us to talk about making his boxing, amateur boxing debut next Thursday. And then after that interview, a gentleman who I've wanted to have on this show for

so very long, we've brought him up a few times over the last few months with X-Pac. Diamond Dallas Page brought him up. He's one of the most interesting pro wrestlers right now because every so often there's a guy who is able to capture the imagination of the community. The community rallies around him, they determine, they feel like he is being underused, underutilized, and they try to propel him to the top or at least as close to the top as possible. Right now that guy is carrying Cross, formerly known as Killer Cross. Now if you're one

of these fans out there, these listeners, viewers who we all love, who is not a big pro wrestling guy, I pride myself on winning you over. If you are a pro wrestling guy, you know exactly who he is, you know exactly why he's on, you know exactly why he's so interesting and hot right now. But if you're not, give him a chance.

This guy has a legit martial arts background, a legit fighting background. He could have easily gone down the path of MMA. Used to train at Vanderlei's Gym in Las Vegas, Syndicate MMA as well. His father competed in tough man contest, went toe to toe with Phil Barone. He's competed in legit shoot fights. He is a legit badass.

And he'll be joining us in studio, which I really appreciate. He flew in just for this interview. And there's something about these pro wrestlers, I hope you appreciate it, one-tenth as much as we do. Cardona flies in. Hendry flies in. Cross flies in. There are others to come who are doing the same. I appreciate that. We're not flying them in. They just understand that it's way better in person as opposed to on Zoom. So there's the lineup right over there.

Three fascinating guests from different corners of the combat world looking forward to it as always. Now, you know, on Wednesdays, we like to shoot. Yesterday was a great day. We covered a lot of ground. It's been another busy week. The interview with Dave Allen that we had on the Dzone show, Adda and myself, is up on our YouTube channel now. Please do yourself a favor. The guy is just one of the most interesting, self-deprecating, self-reflective, funny, fascinating, fun-to-root four guys that we've come across.

One of the most, I mean, just a lovely, lovely fellow who's enjoying some great success and had some pretty dark moments not that long ago. That interview is up right now. We're rolling right now. We're on fire. It's been a great stretch of shows and we continue that but of course on Wednesday, you know, we like to shoot We know you like to answer your questions You have sent us a whole host of them over at arielhawani.substack.com

And so without further ado time now for everyone's favorite segment of the week. It is time And obviously it's a big day around these parts. We've got On Air Jordan's beloved Tottenham Hotspur's going up against P.T.'s beloved Manchester United. I'm so, P.T., I have to say, if you're there, I'm so annoyed with Manchester United because I feel like we've needed Manchester United to win a game for us like multiple times over the last few weeks and again this coming weekend we need them to beat Aston Villa and you're going to let us down. I just want to let you know I'm annoyed. I just want to let you know. I know it's all about...

Another Paul Bearer for your funeral, my friend. Yeah. Manchester United 2004, 2005, starting 11. If it's any consolation, they've let all of the fans down for the vast majority of the year too. This is the only seven grace for the year. Uh, the worst Manchester United team ever, according to their very own manager, Ruben Armoury. Um, it's been a tough one. It's one of the worst seasons of football I've watched as a United fan for the last 30 odd years. But I don't know, I found it deeply intriguing as well because it was very dramatic. It was like watching a soap opera more than it was a football team. So if somehow we get away with one this weekend, sorry tonight and we can carry it into next season that'd be great. But as I said before, my dad is a sports fan fan long-suffering sports fan as is on air Jordan

And I love both of them then both of those guys very much So if it does happen that you know, you don't win this one of plenty of trophies of seeing plenty of you're not nervous I'm a chip with nothing What what will be will be? Yeah, that's a great way. That's a great approach I was I was seeing some of the Spurs fans singing, na na na na, walk away. 17th place, you don't give up. Spurs gonna win that cup. Well, you can't at this stage, you really can't go into the today going like

being worried about where we are in the league. Yeah. Two terrible teams. No doubt about it. One is going to suffer an awful time in the Champions League next year without a doubt. But we at least will have a summer of promise when we're signing players that will find out in around December no longer want to be at Manchester United, but we can dream. Let's get into the questions. Gentlemen, we've got a whole host of them.

Dominik is up first. Hello, Ariel and the boys in the back. This question is for everyone. I was wondering what your guises opinions are on fans booing UFC fighters. Normally the second clenching or grappling is initiated. I personally think it is most disrespectful and disgraceful thing to do to these fighters

that have been training nearly their entire lives, have worked tirelessly and have made many sacrifices to get where they are. And are the most highly skilled athletes in their sport? Okay, Dana you see all right. I get the point. I Guess it depends on when it happens Generally, I hate the booing not every fight can be rockum-sockum. I do understand people are paying a lot of money and You know they want entertainment if it happens

in the first minute of a fight yeah it's ludicrous if it happens in minute 13 of a really boring fight I think that's fair minute 13 of a really boring fight and totally the fighter that's kept getting taken down started getting some strikes off and it started to become exciting for a little bit and then the guy immediately took him back down and he ended up the fight having 13 minutes of control time of out of the 15 minutes that's where I can I can see the the fans point but I'm with you anytime in the first round if it happens no no can't first round there's sometimes where you know sometimes it's almost like a snowball effect where there's been a string of bad fights,

and now they're starting to lose their patience. And then you've got two dudes who are great fighters, and the first minute is just a bunch of circling or feeling out process, and they start receiving the booze. Then you're like, come on, guys. One fight has nothing to do with the other, but I get it, as the night goes on, patience is wearing thin, more alcohol in the system,

like all these things. And more often than not, we have heard from fighters who have said, I didn't hear it. I don't know if they're telling the truth or not, but they often say that they're so locked in that they're oblivious to it. So maybe we make it out to be a bigger deal than it is. I don't know. If you paid for a ticket, boo all you want. Don't care. Hmm. Tell that to Al I Quinta. Most of it. And it led to an incredible moment. Yeah. Exactly.

It led to one of the best moments. Such a great moment. If you paid, say, now there's a limit to that, right? Like boo is acceptable. Once you start crossing lines with some of the things you say, that's where it gets crazy. But like booing, eh, it's just part of sports, whatever. Start a chant, do whatever, that's fine.

Yeah. Most of the time when I'm watching with people that don't typically watch the sport, as soon as there's a take down, they're just like, why don't they just stand up? Like, you know, I don't know, man. I guess they just didn't think of that. They need to watch more Derek Lewis fights.

He'll just stand up. Or JDM fights. Or JDM. Just stand up, baby Alright, let's continue Hey Ariel and crew Ariel you're on a Translantic flight to a big UFC event, but the problem is there are only four remaining seats on the plane all middle seats Where are you sitting? He's not sitting anywhere me Well, first of all, they're all middle seats. So like Aren't they all the same? What's the difference between the seats?

Also, it sounds like he's just missing the event. Yeah, he's getting a PJ. A middle seat coach? We'll get him next time. Oh no. Something's come up. Oh, okay, okay. So sorry, he gave us some scenarios. Okay.

We jumped the gun. The first available seat is between Sean Strickland and Bryce Mitchell. Sounds like a joy. The second seat is between Dana White and Ali Abdulaziz. This is great. The last is between Guru and Jamal Hill. Golly. I'm curious your answer. I think I know. All right, all four of us have to take one of them.

Okay, so we're each picking a seat. I'll take any of those seats, honestly. Yeah, I'm happy enough. I think they'd all be a ride. I think Frosch might be the safest option for me right now. I'm doing the whole flight. I think Strickland and Mitchell is the safest. In terms of what? I don't know if I want to sit there listening to that on a flight.

I think you'd want the Bisping and Frotch smoke. Like you would entertain yourself with that. Yeah, I'll sit right in there. Also right in that bitch and we'll clear the air. As we're 30,000 feet in the air, you can be like, oh, you can see the curvature of the earth. You did go through, you did have a- Oh, I thought you were gonna say you could see Wembley where he fought in front of- All right.

But you did have a few months of, remember that high road hell whiny where you were just settling beefs left right and center? You were just walking lads down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was crazy. Yeah, no, that was a good time. I was leaning towards Dana and Ali, but-

That feels like the least entertaining out of all. No, most entertaining for us, though. If I would watch them sit in silence for seven hours. I was gonna say- Silence! Silence! There is no chance. You're probably not getting off a plane if you sit there, honestly. Dana and Ariel and Ali is silence?

I don't know about that. I'll go' bismi and frat'ch, just because people are like, you wouldn't say this to his face, so I'm like, all right, I'll sit right there. I don't know about that I'll go I'll go bismuth and frotch just because people are like you wouldn't say this to his face So like all right, I'll sit right there imagine you walk The carry on up. Oh, hey guys mind if I just What's happening? Oh, that's me right there. Oh, Rick. What are you doing? Bisming and frotch. Oh Frotch is off. Oh, yeah, you're taking that spot. Yeah, what was the, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I think you'll have a great time with Dana and Ali. Me, Dana and Ali? Off a couple smackers? I'm down.

And then, Pizzi with Strickland and Bryce Mitchell. I don't know if they're much... I think they'll enjoy you. Will I enjoy them? That's my concern. That's a great question. You can learn about American culture and history. Steve Buscemi asks, hey, my son is currently three and is in a

weird phase of watching movies and listening to songs in French. We are not a French-speaking family and have no background but he insists. It started with Spanish which his mother-in-law is fluent in but has now changed to French. My question is your children speak, and did they ever listen or watch things in French? Was that helpful in them learning? Here's the thing. We have tried to talk to our kids in French, but they don't really—they know some words

like bonjour, je m'appelle. They were doing the Duolingo thing for a minute there. Not that long ago, they were determined to learn how to speak French. They do understand Hebrew. They can't speak Hebrew and obviously English. Spanish is probably the one that they should learn around these parts, but no, we don't really speak to them in French. My first language when I was a kid was French. I think I've told this before when I went to pre-k, I didn't know how to speak English and they told me I had to go home and And learn and then I came back two three months later. My mom taught me the basics

So that was my mother tongue. But of course now I'm you know way more anglophone than I am francophone All to say if you have the opportunity to teach your your young one another language go for it French Spanish everything in between. Make it happen. Say my name, did you happen to catch Eric Nixxick slipping some money to Paul Felder on the broadcast? Joke or not, Felder looked super stressed and uncomfortable when it happened.

Probably not the best joke to pull, what did you think? I did see that, but I didn't inquire as to what it was. You guys saw that too, right? It was everywhere? Oh yeah, we saw it. I mean, it could have been a million different things. Could have bought him lunch earlier in the day. But yes, maybe not.

Any other sport though, any other sport would be an absolute fucking meltdown, I think. Yeah, maybe not the best time. Not a great look. Yeah. But to be honest, I didn't ask Eric about it. Islam's phlembotomist. Hello Ariel. I'll disclose my bias off the top. DP is my favorite fighter. Let me kick you a scenario.

Ilya gets the jump on Charles. Armin gets booked against Geci. Dustin takes the BMF belt off Max. Would he then be a top contender for the title? Meaning DP. At one time, Dustin had hinted at dos mas instead of uno mas. Could the stars be aligning for the diamond to get one last crack at undisputed gold before he rides off into the sunset? Curious of Eric's opinions, his takes are

not as bad as most think." That is kind of him. Yeah, that's really nice. I think that's true as well, to be fair. I think Rick is very good. Oh, I thought you meant the sequence of events here. Here's the thing, there's like four ifs here, right? Like if this guy beats that guy, if that guy beats this guy, a lot of things have to happen. Is there a scenario where it makes sense for him

because there's a new champion? Sure, but I really think he's at peace with one last one. Remember, he has said that his wife wants him to retire. I think he has reached the end That's my feeling after Ilya toporia changed his nickname back to the matador I was like oh no way he gets a title shot now legends only is off the table. Yeah, yeah And by the way that had nothing to do with it. Oh really you sure it was amazing that people were like trying to Of course Put those two together don't call it a comeback Ariel one to ten

How stressed are you about this series should be good? Especially after Brunson and Halburn facing off in WrestleMania or wrestling talking shit Halburn said you don't want to see me again. Let's see how stressed about I'm always stressed feel pretty good home court advantage Revenge on our minds. We should have been them last year. We weren't healthy. It happens. They beat us game seven. Halburn shows up with the shirt. They are healthier than they were last year. They didn't have match-or-end. We are healthier and probably more talented with the addition of bridges cat OG's there Mitch is there I Feel I feel Nixon six wouldn't be surprised if it's six and five Wow yeah, I didn't think you were gonna go full confidence

I love it something's happening here conceivably you have the two best players in the series now are Brunson and cat not the two best players. I mean I some might say fantastic pass a Halliburton who some might say Tyrese he's having a go get the fuck out of here if anybody is Pascal siakam is Halliburton is so like he's so hot or cold yeah that's not a no no I'm just saying like he could give you a 35-point game he give you a four-point game yeah Brunson's not giving you that 35 a night Brunson is the best player on the court would love a little more from cat Obviously, you know, he's been okay 19 points in the playoffs would love a little more would love him back to like 25 That's that's my guy. That's my guy. I'm just saying would love a little more bridges has been great

Oh gee, oh gee, I come to be fantastic Oh gee, if we can get McBride and Mitch playing like they did in game six, we're golden. Mitchell Robinson, I mean. He's been unbelievable. You know my crush on Mitchell Robinson. I love that guy. Yeah. I absolutely love that guy.

Pope went to Villanova. It's all learning over there. That's right. That's right. By the way, I feel like something's in the air air and sometimes I'm a sucker when it comes to these things But I feel like there's something in the air. I feel like the fact that we have home court is big Obviously, we're keeping an eye on the West. We see what OKC is doing We say time will tell but right and by the way, you see how things can happen people get hurt people who knows?

but the fact that we're in it, the fact that it's May 21st, and tonight is game one of the Eastern Conference Finals, and my New York Knicks are playing as one of the final four teams in the NBA is just an absolute gift. It's a dream. Haven't felt this in obviously 25 years.

So let's see. So to answer the question, bring it on, let's go. Can't wait. Jake Garcia. El Nariz. What the hell is going on with the Mac? With Dana saying he hasn't spoken with him in a long time, it really just feels like Connor is just not coming back to the UFC and is more interested in BKFC. Do you and the boys think Connor will eventually fight in the UFC or find a way out of his contract and take a fight in B BKFC. I mean, yeah, I saw Dana say he hasn't spoken to him I wouldn't be surprised if they're like, let's worry about this in 2026. He has already said he's not thinking about it

He's thinking about his you know, his political ambitions My answer to this and I get it asked all the time I was at my daughter's soccer game on Sunday and someone came up to me and this is what they asked My answer continues to be I think he fights time. I was at my daughter's soccer game on Sunday and someone came up to me and this is what they asked. My answer continues to be, I think he fights again, I just don't know where. I don't know if it ends up being, you know, there was some talk of this KSI fight. I don't know if they let him go to BKFC or he does a boxing influencer fight or I don't know. I think we see him compete in something. I just don't know what it is at this point.

And I'll be the first to say I didn't expect this I think PTC has been on top of it from the beginning. I didn't expect I thought by now he would have fought obviously after last year and and that fight not You know not coming to fruition. We were what three weeks away two weeks away from the fight happening We were, what, three weeks away, two weeks away from the fight happening. Then I started to have my doubts and there's been really no indication in 2025 of this being a thing.

A thing that they're working on, a thing that they want, a thing that he wants. So I think at some point we see him fight, but is it an exhibition? Is it a celebrity? Who the hell knows? I certainly don't know. I just right now I don't I don't I think it's a very safe bet to say not in 2026. I know sorry 2025. I know he as of right now isn't a part of their 2025 plans. I could tell you that. So let's see. Buffalo Bill, hello considering you are involvedch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch- my son, I would flip out on him. I mean, first of all, that coach for the Falcons, who his

son made the call, I mean, like, he's lucky he's not fired. So yeah, I think the way the NFL handled it, was it the NFL or the Falcons that fined him? Someone fined him. NFL, yeah. The whole thing's a freaking mess. And that kid, I mean, the problem, not only did he almost cost him his job, not only was he, you know, he was playing with someone's emotions with their life, this is a huge deal, the kid was so stupid, like who films, you don't prank call someone and film it, especially not on that scale.

Like, you have to be the dumbest kid alive to do that, him and his friends. And, yeah, it was just like, now, how do you trust your kid? Your kid went into your documents and took this kid's phone number and called him and then filmed it and put it out there. I mean, it's just like the disappointment, the shame. That's what I'd hit my kid with. I'm just so disappointed in you.

What age was the kid who did that? College. I think he goes to Ole Miss. Well, then he's a bellend. Yeah. I mean, it's one, you're a bellend if you, if you, if you prank call, if you prank call and film it, you're a bellend times two. Prank call, film and post? a Bellin times two prank call film and post

triple Bellin Bellin squared yeah no tripped yeah cubed cubed sorry Cosmo Kramer Ariel I watched your Jake Paul interview the other day I was bumped he didn't seem interested in Darren Till at all that'd be a bang of a fight can I be honest I kind of think so as well. I think there's a reason he's not interested in Dirk. I'm way more interested in that than the Tank Davis fight. Yeah. I'm more interested in that than the Tank. I'm not very shocking. That was shocking. One of them's a 215 pound gorilla and one of them is a 150 pound soaking wet 5 foot 4 guy. So I understand why you'd want Gervonta

over there. Where could you even get a commission that would put on the Tank Davis? No, he said exhibition. There's no way. You can't. Nah. But I actually think the till fight is a really interesting fight. 100%. Big guy. Now has a couple of... Build up would be unbelievable too. Build up would be great. He has a couple fights under his belt now. He's getting more comfortable in there. He's got the high black socks. I actually think that this would be...

You loved it. You would love it. You really hate the high black socks. It I actually think that this would be. You loved it, you would love the high black socks. You really hate the high black socks. It's just weird. Why didn't you ask him about it? They look like stockings. I forgot that he did it. You know, I would have asked him if. This would really eliminate the whole like,

you're only fighting old guys who are out of their prime. Like Darren Till is still firmly in the age where he's in his prime conceivably. Still has the MMA tie, but I would watch Darren Till versus Jake Paul way more than any of these other matchups that are going on. Who's watching the Tommy Fury fight? Oh, God, do we have to talk about him anymore?

Can we just put that to bed? That's a real thing. That's a real thing. No, it should be noted that I'm the original Tommy Fury hater, and I don't want to hear about him anymore, We're good. That fight that Tommy had was brutal man. Oh it was just a Friday afternoon in Hungary and there was no one there and then it was just- We just would rather watch the tv off. The look of cancelling pulling out of the Darren Tilphi was also inexcusable. I think they think the-

Who's gonna kick him GC? I think the Fury fight is bigger than it is because it's like the revenge story but I think most people would just say move on you know what I mean Jake has Suffered no ill effects from the quote-unquote lost at Tommy Fury like it doesn't matter Moved on you lose again, too. It's just like all right. Yeah, what's the point of going? He'll fight to me would be really interesting and I love the idea of Darren till Fighting for MMA's honor to defend MMA's honor, Darren Till. Press conference, come on. Press conference would be great.

Absolutely, I'm sure it would be great. Yeah, put Till on the dais with Jake and the Giza. Till's a genuine mad fucker. Like, he's a mad bastard. He will fuck and slap somebody. Jake can have fun at Tommy's expense at the press conference, making fun of Tommy for pulling out. They'd both be bashing Tommy.

It'd be incredible. I would love to see this. They might, yeah, that would be the worst if they just talked about Tommy if you're ever the whole thing. No, it'd be great. I'd love that. OK, so there's a few guys on the sub stack,

I've been meaning to mention this, is a few guys on the sub stack who every single week just copy and paste their same question every week. And I just want to let you know, the reason why I don't answer them or address them, sometimes it's due to time, but also the questions suck. So I just wanted to do like, once we're getting to like the sixth week in a row, maybe switch it up. But in this case, all right, I'm feeling nice.

I'm feeling charitable. I'm going to answer Doreen O'Glaes question, which he's been asking ever since the the Bo nickel fight Hey Ariel since you dodged this question last week and the week prior with peace and love I ask it again Just curious when a guy with five pro fights makes the main card of UFC 300 and gets the full promotional push Is that still not a big deal or is the UFC just doing charity work now? Yes. I'm talking about Bo I Think he's referring to the fact I don Bo. I think he's referring to the fact, I don't even know what he's referring to the fact. But what is the point that he's trying to make?

Is he trying to say that I said that I didn't feel like the UFC was like pushing him down our throats? Which they weren't. They weren't. Yeah, I think so. People also get really angry about Bo being on the main card and now like that gets brought up. Yes. brought up consistently in hindsight after losing the RDR. Who cares?

Honestly, who cares? This main card idea, like this is some sort of status symbol. They get paid the same and more people see them on the prelims. Who cares? But even if it is a status symbol, what is the conversation here? And I guess he's trying to say like it was, people were, I guess... But it even if it is a status symbol what what is the conversation here and and it is I guess he's trying to say like it was people were I guess people think it should have been Yuri versus rock They're offended. They're offended of both. Yes people are highly offended. Get over

Go, I mean this guy asked a question every week man every week every week the card was 13 months ago Yeah, and at the time now every week. The card was also 13 months ago. Yeah, and at the time, they were, I think they were appropriately pushing him. There was a lot of buzz around him, there still is. Look at the reaction to his loss. So that would suggest that there was interest in the guy. They put him on the main card, on a big card, where they were trying to, you know, showcase one of their up and coming stars. That's how this thing goes. I thought that card had a mix of it all everything but like the the the super duper main event it had you know it had stars like Pereira it had Max Holloway it had the Bo Nichols of the world it had the Yerris of the world it

had the Moikano's and the Bobby greens it like it had it had a nice mix of fun Jim Miller who gives a fuck if he fought at 10 PM or if he fought at 930 and who gives a fuck if Yuri fought at 930. The Yuri fight was great. What do you care? Why would you not do it if you're the UFC? What would your incentive be to bury bone nickel

somewhere lower? Because it's disrespectful. Why? Put them above Yuri. But what's the disrespect? What part is disrespectful? They had Davis and figurado and Cody Garbrand as the curtain jerker on that car Yeah, and and remember we talked about that there were fights that were worse than that one But it's because they wanted to say this card is so stacked

Cody Garbrand to former champions Are opening the card for card card order is the dumbest thing that people continue to talk about. And perhaps the fact that we're still talking about it 15 months later, maybe it was a brilliant idea. The fact that we're still talking about it. He was also a multi-time national champion, undefeated at the time. Ariel, this is from Roberto, the boys in the back said they don't have Charles Olvera in their top five lightweights of all time. How would all of you rank Charles if he beats Ilya? Love you all. How would I rank? If he beats Ilya, would you have him in your top five? Now a two-time champion. That doesn't

boost him that much in my mind because that's a featherweight. Tell us your top five. BJ? BJ is one obviously. Obviously. BJ won obviously? Yeah. For me he is. Obviously as well. Yeah. After doing it. BJ. Number one all time? Yeah. I disagree. On the resume? Really? BJ, Islam, Khabib. This is no particular order. Let's not talk about resume. Alright? Let's not talk about resume here. We're just talking about feeling. Yeah, feeling. Feeling? Just vibes. We're just dealing. We're just dealing. How yeah feeling feelings vibes we're just dealing vibes have this career didn't even take place at layman how we made me feel inside okay we can all sign in five the top three right that is the top three that's the top three unassailably I had I had Frankie as

number four on my rush more I had Frank number four that's a good one um you get me to five I mean Charles has a case for it, but I probably would lean like a Benson over Benson Charles Jim Miller. I mean numbers on Jim Miller Never was a champ Frankie's not a bad one. I was just Frankie Frankie has a rock solid case in my opinion Charles Oliver does have a very good resume RDA Eddie Connor Benson, I'm just reading the guys who won who won belts yeah I think I think Charles would have a very strong case you can put him in the top five Charles or Ben we actually also didn't do it outside the UFC like but his whole his whole career it's a great point to be

clear we didn't do a top five we did our Mount Rushmore yeah yeah so we just did so this guy doesn't like to be BJ Khabib, BJ, Islam, Frankie is perfect for a four. That's my Rushmore. Say that one more time, PT. Khabib, Islam, BJ, Frankie. Khabib, BJ, Islam, Frankie. Yeah. That's my Rushmore.

That's what Rick said. To change it up, I put Benson for it. Yeah, Benson. Rick was upset. Yeah, I mean. Crazy that Frankie, who's in your Mount Rushmore for lightweights, ended his career as a 35er. Yeah. But that's what makes him, he's second-hand unique.

His career was 45 and 35. The same way BJ gets the plaudits for being this guy who's fighting Machida at light heavyweight, we must acknowledge that Frankie Edgar was fighting 50-5ers when he was a 35er his entire career. Absolutely, and do you remember when he beat BJ, everyone was like, the rematch, ah! Well, well.

We'll get BJ again. He only beat BJ once, because the first time he actually definitively lost and that was the worst jerk job decision of in nearly MMA history other than Pearson and Sanchez. The second time he beat the breaks off him but the first one was one of the worst robberies of all time. We should never. Was it? I haven't watched that since it happened. Yeah it was bad. I was a BJ fan so So I obviously thought BJ won, but I never went back and scored the fire All right. Let's keep it rolling here. There's the best I would have as number one

The top three are the the the easiest where you would rank them is probably the hardest part. Shallow. Marielle. This is from Iran Dana keeps saying Regarding the Jones Aspinal fight relax It's going to happen But once Jones announces his retirement and UFC strips him in a couple months mark my words Dana keeps saying regarding the Jones-Aspenol fight, relax, it's going to happen. But once Jones announces his retirement and the UFC strips him in a couple months, mark my words, how do you think Dana will spin it?

He's known for changing the narrative and I remember how he spoke negatively about Francis after things fell through. Do you think he'll do the same with John even after months of calling him the greatest and number one power pound? I don't know how he's gonna spin it. But look, we're approaching that time and he's gonna say look we gave him his number

True. We offered him the fight. True. He didn't want to take it. And so you guys determine. You guys determine what this means for his legacy I saw a thing. I saw a thing from John where a fan wrote that this This is now ruined his legacy. Did you guys see this? Here it is. I don't agree with it, but yeah. Someone said, whoop, I'm trying to put this out here. A legacy completely ruined.

And then John wrote to him, John Jones, youngest champion in UFC history, most dominant, longest reigning, made millions, left the sport on his own terms. Interesting. Flipped that fight money into real business success, became a great fighter, inspired people all over the world. Yeah, what a terrible legacy.

And he's right. He's right. But again, this is almost like the living my best life comment from a few days ago. We're not talking about the same things here. We're not. And he actually admit that he's retiring there, obviously, in that. To a degree, yeah. But we're not talking about the same things. We're talking about how there

was one fight left and you strung everyone along and then didn't take the fight. If John Jones would have retired in New York in November, right, Madison Square Garden after beating Stipe, none of this would be a thing. But he'll explain it, he'll spin it in some way, shape, or form, and he is right. As I've said, this doesn't affect what he did in 2011, 2013, 2014. It can't, it shouldn't. But when the story is finally written, this will be the last chapter of his fight career. The last chapter of his fight career is he moved up to heavyweight, he fought Suril Gan. He waited a very long time to fight a much older Stipe Miocic. And then when there was a true legitimate

number one guy, interim champion, not just another guy, a guy that the whole world wanted to see fight him, he said, peace, I'm out of here. Now in an alternate universe, I would love to know if it was like a steep A-like fighter. Does he say the same? Is he saying goodbye because it's Tom? We'll never know the answer to that question. We'll never know. Basically just got another tweet from old Johnny Meat. Serious?

Yeah, nine minutes ago. What we got? He said, I don't know if I want to call it retired. I feel like I'll always have an ability to pop out and show them. I've had many breaks throughout my career. My identity outside of fighting is well intact. Okay.

I'm genuinely enjoying life. So just move on, man. I'm growing in different ways. It's great. This is in response to someone asking how I feel to be retired. So let's just move on. Book a fight this summer,

Tom Aspinall sucks what happened. Tom Aspinall versus who? Who's to fight? Let's just move it on, come on. Yeah, but it's gonna be, I think we have to, He lost the voice off. If that's the reaction to everyone, like that's what you're saying.

Nobody thinks that's gonna be a good fight. Like there are no good fights for Tom. That's a good fight. I just wanna see Tom fight. Tom fighting is the draw. So real, there's heat between them. I'm fine with it. We need to just get a fucking going the division. I just want to see a Tom Massable We've got a low support for fuck's sake. Yeah, let's just move on. We have to be clear though

John Jones is being pretty transparent here like he's trying his best not to ruin whatever plans UFC Yeah, because they don't like when people announce things about their own career But the truth is the UFC isn't announcing this because they don't have to. We've gone over this a million times. And also because they're probably holding out hope that they are going to be able to convince him to come back for this one last fight. The UFC is shielding John in a certain sense because they don't want to say it's over. John's pretty much saying it's over. He's saying it without saying it nearly a million times now.

The best life stuff. It feels Connor Chandler-esque at this point. Oh yeah, not as long, but yes, it does feel like that when it's very clear one thing isn't happening and everyone else is holding out hope. It also feels like to a T because like I was so hopeful of Connor Chandler eventually happening and then just at one point I just kind of gave up on it and I'm starting to give up on yeah The crazy thing about Connor Chandler though is they were booked. They had a poster. They had a promo They sold tickets like it at least got to that point. It is season of tough. That's no consolation This has just been one long like flirtation it's just well they won't nothing

Listen in John's defense he never said he was going to take the fight he actually made that very clear that you don't want to play from the jump like he never said yes then no I think I'd say like give me wild money and I'll do this in the post for the press conference in November to a degree yeah I think

it was something about the green fucking he said it I don't know verbatim tartel was verbatim, quote, word for word. But he said, he said... He basically said if the UFC makes it worth his while, he'll do it. Yeah. Pete, he's right. He was a lot more interested in the Pereira fight back then.

And I believe, truly, that he threw out a crazy number and the UFC matched it, and I don't think he was expecting that. Why milk the fucking heavyweight if you want to fight Alex Pereira. Do you know what I mean? He just wants those legacy fights. Don't be the fucking heavyweight champion then. Yeah well that's the thing. I don't think anyone would be calling for his future plans. I don't think anyone would be calling for it if he just wasn't the champion. Yes to your point Rick that is not his call. The UFC feels like it makes a lot more sense and it's a lot more lucrative to have John Jones as your heavyweight champion than John Jones as just a guy fighting random guys. So I understand, by the way, why they weren't quick to take the belt away from him. But at this point, like, come on, guys.

Yeah, we're past the point now. It's time. Let's move on. I honestly feel for Tom. Tom's too nice for this business because a lot of other people would have said like what the hell's Going on here. Give me a fight right now. Tom Tom's back is against the wall He's in a no-win scenario because if he gives up on this fight now, it's now it's gone You're right. You're your dream your Fighting John Jones would be massive for Tom Aspin all so to put that to the side and then go, okay I'm gonna fight Cyril Gahn that people are gonna expect me to walk through anyway,

that is not the thing that he's after. He wants that thing for his legacy. He wants the name John Jones on his resume. So by putting that to the side, he's killing a dream of his own, and I understand. It's a difficult spot for Tom. He's in a no-win scenario here. Guys, we have some breaking news.

Oh. Bim, bim, bim. John versus Tom, it's in a no-win scenario here. Guys, we have some breaking news. Oh. John versus Tom. It's happening, huh? You missed Franklin Lee's moment. Yeah. Nick's got it. Listen, listen. Nick's got it. To be fair to Nick, we haven't had to press that button a lot over the last few days. I just got word from a member of our team, the Sam Farber that the area Hawani show has been named a

Silver telly winner in the general sports category which covers online shows or segments about sports there were more than 13,000 entries this year That's a pretty big deal Telly award winners, baby silver telly yes. What does that mean? That means that we're big-time yesterday sports Emmys Look at this by the way this this this trophy big deal Yeah, do we get it over here? I want the telly Awards 46 annual. There's a gold telly though They're gonna make me pay close to miss over is probably like the digital Okay, no, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just kind of me

I want I want that it looks like an Emmy is like trying to take off flying yeah hell yeah we all gonna get our own I'll pay for a for a replica to have okay we got credits here social media Kel Dansby Studio Operations Kirsten McAndrew producer Jordan Kamsan encoding Ben Hefner, YouTube management Patrick Hennessy, social media Spencer Embry, host EP Hawhani, EP Jackman, producer Berks, TD Enriquez, Andy, audio engineer Frank Lenz, senior engineer Chris Costa, studio engineer Tyler Dempter they get that right

Studio engineer Chris Heinz content review strategy Nicole Gardner where the fuck is PC? It's a good point. Where's our boy? They're looking up John Jones go here. What happened? See Blanche Batman, I don't think they were accepted Is this racism? I think it's right. are we sure that I'm crying when cold is that the reason yeah yeah yeah what they know what the hell a lot of bullshit I am gonna have fucking murder HR I'm coming watch out Connor I love the way so much H yeah guys congratulations to us all thank you thank you thank you and thank you to all of you all right now no Thank yous from fucking me. I'll tell you that much. I'm

disgusted if I think Kyle fellas true or false if Ilya loses to Charles he goes back to 45 No, I think he's one more at least if Islam loses to JDM. He goes back to 55 true true Ilya fights right there if hums are loses to DDP, he goes back to 70. No. Hell no. He'll never go back to 70. If Pereira loses to Big Unc again, he moves to heavyweight. True. True.

Word just says, see you later. Thanks for the cheese. Last but not least, when Brady loses to GC on the bike, he retires from MMA. True. Gives up his number one contender spot. when Brady loses to GC on the bike he retires from MMA true gives up his number one contender spot I'll tell you this, he'll never get on the bike again is he even going to get on the bike in the first place?

I know, like everybody wants to keep talking about John Jones being a duck Brady changing conversation you see blah blah blah blah blah blah oh hey did you guys see the weather in Montreal was fantastic You see blah blah blah blah blah blah blah The weather in Montreal was fantastic yeah cool Sean How's Tom hospital feels knowing you're the champ? the same cloth man crazy, there's a guy named hut on the sub stack who has changed his Avatar to a Pacers logo and is like in every single question So he's asking me some question here about the Pacers beating the next I'm not even gonna read this

Nonsense, but I will answer is one question thoughts on Reggie Miller being on the call for the series. Thank you. Love the show I mean, it's a little cruel that we've got Mike Breen the ultimate professional working for ESPN But they're doing the Western Conference finals and here we have, you know Reggie on the call with Kevin Harlan. You know what I'll say? I'll say I love it. I was just about to say I love it. It heats up. This rivalry needs as much heat as it can possibly get.

It's fine. Throw Reggie Miller on. It's totally fine. Yeah, I heard that. Who was it? Did you see last year when they were saying, F you, Reggie, and then Josh Hart walks up to him. That's what I was going to say.

And says, I think they're saying F you. They do that moment they should like when the Knicks are cooking Josh Hart should come back over to Reggie What by the way 1000% tonight you will hear F you Reggie multiple times But that's great. I like it. Oh, yeah. No, listen, whatever We want it all we want all the smoke. It's crazy. This is the final series on TNT This is wow. I didn't even think. It's crazy that this is the final series on TNT. This is it. Oh wow, I didn't even think of that. Yeah. This is how it ends.

Which to me is fine. Nice, I like that. NBC can't come soon enough. He is going to NBC, so he's not going anywhere. And he really had a turn on TNT. Oh, I think they have kind of lost their mojo. Is Barclay going to? Halftime.

Where's he going? Yeah, they're all going. So the whole halftimeime crew is very confusing but they are licensing their show inside the NBA to ESPN weirdly enough. So that halftime crew is going to be licensed over and air on ESPN select games not every game like they they are now. But I love the movies that NBC is making. Roundball Rock. Mello, well yeah that's incredible, but Melo, Vince Carter. Yeah, no, the whole thing is great. They got the voice back. Mikey T, Ariel, did you see Pat McAfee versus Gunther during the past Backlash PLE?

Would you be interested in a similar style match and if so, who would you like to put on a match against? Like me in the match? You want me in there? Um, I don't know Who is it me versus uh, Bronson Reed Logan? I think I could give him some work big Bronson now Logan Paul Logan Paul versus how one Bronson Reed's not no, he's huge, but I feel like I could be like the one two three kid against him You know, no my dream. I'll feel like I could be like the one, two, three kid against him, you know?

No, my dream, I'll tell you what, before it's all said and done, I need to have some sort of run as a heel manager. That's my dream. I want to be that guy. I need to cross that off the bucket list. All my toys just fell. Some way, shape, or form, I need to figure that out. I feel like you have, this is just as a friend respectfully yeah yeah I feel like you have not been aggressive enough

with this our interaction yes with our interactions with with with the wrestlers we mean I can't pitch myself of course you can I can't listen put me in coach I want to I want to we all know it's not up to them now you got to get you got to get them to buy in and then they will push the agenda forward you have not been aggressive enough. This can happen. I feel like this is it can happen One promotion one indie promotion asked me but didn't feel like it was the right move at the time We're gonna go to the big time. Yeah Yeah, I don't I don't want to be on some you know like you know don't be respectful Yeah, you're respectful you're respectful. You never know man meanwhile. You're dying with this summer

You're drinking that a UBS summer 25. What is this? I'm a nursery. I'm a very funny. I that feels that feels quick Let's say like I feel like Joe Hendry such a nice guy. He needs the hill manager. Oh you become a I feel like Joe Hendry is such a nice guy. He needs the heel manager. Oh you become a seal man Oh, I want a whole I want to hold my own version of the Heenan family. I want the Hawani family We just get one. Let's focus on okay. Yeah, we're I want a whole crew. We're building the whole Adams family Maybe this is the problem. Maybe this is the problem I need a fucking by the way, what's sweet 16 coming out? When are we starting working on it?

By the way is I mean like I already have the I already have like the built-in heat that I'm a Jew Everyone hates us at this point. So like I already have that I can lean into that Alright, I walk around like my Twitter picture lean into that say we control this we control that we control Hollywood We control the media and now I've come here to control you to control you. I don't know how well. I don't know. I like it. He's got me. Triple H is actually that feels a little 80s. No, this is what we're going to do. I've been sent here by New York to control the business. Oh boy. Cole, Ariel, I saw yesterday Uncrowned is looking for a new writer. That's right. Are you and the team concerned about the use of AI in journalism slash article writings? Have you thought about this at all?

Probably more concerned about it in like schoolwork than my kids will figure out how to use this and do that. But as far as like the writing is concerned, I don't think, correct me if you guys feel otherwise, I don't think anyone who's doing this for a living is going to be like that lazy and have so little self-respect that they would resort to AI. You know what I mean? Like have some pride. I do, but I don't think people at this level.

Like someone's starting off, yeah. Like if someone's working for like a website that's just starting off and they're just trying to aggregate things, something like that, all right, fine, something like that. All right, fine, I get it. But. It's mad that websites are just operating like that now,

though, like there's some websites, quick reports, bang, out you go. So to say the industry is above this, I don't agree with you. The biggest media companies in the world are leaning into this. Whether it is just generate an AI article wholesale is, you know, mileage may vary, it depends on the outlet,

but they are certainly using it as a tool, they are certainly utilizing it, you know, to help generate the editorial content, so it's happening, but I agree with you that ultimately, like, the best writers cannot be replicated yet. I don't know what the future for AI holds, but like, you cannot be a Chuck, you cannot be a Ben,

you cannot be a Shekeen. No way. No way. You cannot be a Pizzi Carol. Shout out to a legend. Yeah, absolutely. I might be able to. Just as a computer right off the bat. We might get a bit closer if it's me we're talking about. I mean, look, there's a tier. There's a tier.

We might be able to access the Pizzi level. ESPN tried it with game recaps. They were using AI to do game recaps and they were missing key points of like What are they really? These sports illustrated have like AI right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's pretty bad Yeah, didn't we do something once aerial on the show where we put it? Yeah We did the rankings remember when Dana for said about the AI rankers and we put them in and they still had fucking

Illy litigate in the lightweight lightweight heavyweight situation that's, you know what I mean? There will be gaps, but I will say, Elaine used it for fucking everything. Like not work-related, but like different things, whatever. I have one friend who's saying like he just talks to it and I'm like that's probably the saddest thing I've ever heard, but that's what he said. Like you can ask it about anything and they'll tell you and he'll just be going back and forth with fucking chat gbt. It terrifies he says like you up and they just chat yeah into a computer yeah there was that New York Times article it tried to have the

writer leave the leave their husband or their wife I think it's crazy shit that is weird I wonder if it can be used to some degree by writers like without becoming plagiarism, but that's a slippery slope. Do you know what I mean? Like I wonder if, I don't know. You could use it for research purposes, right? If you need to look up XYZ thing.

Is that plagiarism? Not if you don't crib it word for word. The same way, like if I look up something in Wikipedia, if I look up the record of this person or whatever is it plagiarism? No, I mean I'm just using it as a reference point if you start using the exact language if you start actually taking the concepts and things like That but would it be like would it be? Untoward to go what are five things I could write about that would do well right now and they go here are five topics John Jones

Versus Tom Aspinall is it ever gonna happen and use one of those topics Are you are you cheating or are you just doing it's a lot of gray area, isn't it? go, here are five topics, John Jones versus Tom Aspinall. Is it ever going to happen? And you use one of those topics. Are you cheating, or are you just doing John? There's a lot of gray area, isn't it? There really is. Yeah. By the way, if you do want to throw your name into the hat, and we're looking for a boxing writer,

in particular, uncrownedcombat at yahoo.com is where you can send in your resume, writing sample. We're looking for someone. Hey by the way, we were talking about award winners like us. Shout out to the UFC. They won a couple of awards yesterday. Did you guys see this? Fellies? No, sports Emmys. Not as prestigious but almost as prestigious. For the sphere?

Yeah. Noche UFC won for outstanding graphic design, as well as outstanding studio or production design slash art direction. That's a pretty big deal for the UFC. Dana White in the lead up to all this had been saying if my team doesn't win Emmys for this, something's wrong. I feel like he was almost kind of like bullying. Trying to force the issue.

Was there any awards for PFL sees the throne poster? God, you love that poster love that. No, but Usyk, Usyk fury promo won an award. That was that was fantastic. Yeah, truly fantastic What if any Dana white IG lives will win some Emmys? What's up guys? Someone did ask me about Don Davis here if he'd come in studio I've asked Don Davis to come in studio a bunch not even in in studio, just on the show. And, well, that was, I mean, the last time, there's a hair on my thing and it keeps like blowing and I can't find it every time I'm trying to get it. He, give it a, well, you'll see it. If Frank was here, he'd be losing it. Frank would be very

upset. I've asked him to come on a bunch. He said no. Then we had our little thing and I haven't asked him since. Jordan from Perth. Salam alaikum, I'm on a bunch. He said no. Then we had our little thing and I haven't asked him since. Jordan from Perth. Salam alaikum, Ariel and the team. Have you heard anything about the possibility of JDM versus Islam being in Perth in September? No. It's not happening. No. He said no. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Thomas Johnson. What's up, Ariel? I'm writing this for the boys in the back. As a Pacers fan under the age of 25 I can with 100% certainty say Nick's Pacers is a rivalry I hate the New York Knicks and let me just say it's not just the basketball that makes it a rivalry it's the states themselves New

York and Indiana cannot be more different and that feeds into the rivalry I'm looking forward to the next installment of this historic rivalry one last thing it was is and always will be Nixon six. That's weird. Why would you write that? What is this? The case really well Saul bad guy Aron the boys love the content listen to the show every week non-fight question Can Georgia expert GC tells opinion on banana ball to a curious Californian? Yes. I was selected in their tickets lottery. Amazing. I've

been waiting for this. I mean this is the hot tag for me. What is it? What is it? What is it? Banana ball is the Savannah Bananas. Oh yeah. Which have now become like the Harlem Globetrotters of baseball, formerly known as the Savannah Sand Nats, which was a summer college ball team, meant to many Savannah Sand Nats games. Then they turned into the Savannah Bananas. They were still a normal college ball team in the summers. Went to a few games like that. They started getting really popular for their name, for the jerseys that they sold.

Then they started adding in these, like, they lost the official college ball, summer ball thing. They started adding in these weird tricks. They made it much more of entertainment. They saw sales skyrocket for their shows. People were coming in from out of town. Then they started touring around. If I had to sum it up, it is just Harlem Globetrotters baseball.

It is like, it's an event for kids. That is why we go for it. It's solely entertaining. So good. It looks so fun. They're selling out. They sold out Clemson, which is like $82,000. It's solely entertain. Oh good. It looks so fun. They're selling out They sold out in which is 82,000. They sold out stadium. Oh, yeah in Nashville That's like 60,000 and I don't even get it if you're sitting nosebleeds at Clemson Stadium and you're watching a baseball game It's like what are you even seeing? Are you seeing anything? There's just ants from there

But they're not even really like the baseball is not even the attraction anymore. It's like that. Yeah Oh, yes guys on still yeah catching pop flies while they're doing backflips so town some people hate them yeah oh yeah they have deals like where like every games on ESPN plus ESPN to perfect for the kids if you've ever been to Harlem Globetrotters that is what it when did that transition happen between what you're saying of like real baseball to my guess is like 2018 2019 I saw the owner on 60 minutes a couple weeks ago. 60 Minutes, I saw it too.

Also, he was on real sports. Look it up on YouTube, because I saw that same story. It's owner and his wife doing it on their own. And the guy's a showman, and he understood that like, you need to make this a little bit more fun, a little bit more entertaining. They put in some new rules. What's that one with the no bunting allowed? But then there's another crazy rule that like you can run.

Oh, when you're if you receive a fourth ball, you have to legit run to the first base, right? Something like that. Or they could throw you out. They have to like throw it around the horn. Something crazy like that, which I was like, like you know what that's actually not a bad idea so yeah Savannah bananas do the Savannah bananas like the Harlem Globetrotters always win or is no no no no but they're adding in more work teams yeah right that's right they're making their own little league but the game is not a work that's fun yeah the Globetrotters run like like a 1022 game win streak against the Generals or something. Yeah, and then they lost, right?

Yeah. Jason, Unc, we see the great pics of you and your sons at the Knicks games and heard of your unreal experiences, but more importantly, what is the pregame meal? We have a tradition now. Rick, I didn't tell you this. So we now park. There's a great coffee shop called Culture Espresso, which used to be next to the Bryant Park MMR studio. Well, they have one next to MSG. So we went to the Thunder game in January. We just happened to park right in front of it. I was like, guys, greatest chocolate chip cookie of all time. Anyone out there visiting New York, find a culture. I think there's like three or four in the city and get the

chocolate chip cookies. The coffee is great, everything else is great, but the chocolate chip cookies are unlike anything you've ever tried, honestly. Greatest chocolate chip cookies of all time. So we parked there, it closes at seven, got there at 6.50, vibes incredibly high, last chocolate chip cookie left, we all get it. I posted the video of my son predicting that the Knicks were going to win by 30 and there's chocolate chip cookie left. We all get it. I posted the video of my son predicting that the Knicks were going to win by 30 and there's chocolate on my nose. We're just like

scarfing down the chocolate. I was wondering, I heard you say that in the video. I was just like, what the fuck is he talking about? What chocolate? There was chocolate on my nose. And I was like, oh, thanks guys. So then we go there. Then we walk. Everyone's high fiving, wearing their jerseys. You know, it was such a great day and My kids love the there's like these spicy chicken tenders at MSG. They love that. I had some sort of like Korean barbecue bowl MSG concessions not bad. They've gotten a lot better. They used to be pretty bad And then we had to be in our seats. We had to be in our seats by like 640

No, was it a 7 o'? No, 8 o'clock tips. We had to be in our seats by 740, watch some of the warming up, OG's warming up, Josh Hart is warming up, Chris Stapps is warming up over there. We didn't want to talk to him. You know, we had to keep it. And then it was one long party. That was like a pig and shit moment on Friday for you. You're walking around, chocolate on your nose, high-fiving everyone like, let's go to the next game, baby. It was literally that. Also, I'm a little bit upset.

This is my first time ever hearing about culture espresso. You don't know about culture espresso? Unbelievable cookie. July, baby. No, all over it. I'm on their website right now. It's just a picture of cookies and it says, voted best chocolate chip cookie in all of New York City.

The greatest. We've 100% talked about it. We've talked about it 100%. Pizzi, me and you will be. You gotta go. We're going to Lugers, we're getting cookies. Are we really going to Lugers? Because I'm there with you. Yeah, let talked about it. We've talked about it 100%. P.T., me and you will be... You gotta go. We're going to Lugers, we're getting cookies. Oh, we're really going to Lugers because I'm there with you.

Yeah. Let's do it. If you guys go to the fight... P.T., let's just go on a culinary tour when you blow up, bro. Let's do a fight for you. Yeah. 80 points again is a mistake. Go to culture, go to culture. Go to culture. Trust me.

All right, culture will be the dessert. Lugers, we'll start at Dead Rabbit, we'll sing some pints, we'll go to Lugers, then we'll go to a culture for chocolate chip cookies. Hell yeah. This is gonna be great. This is gonna be great. Woo!

Sometime. That sounds like a great time in July. Come on! You can join. I'll be... Yeah, come on, are you coming? I was waiting for the invite. I was waiting for the invite. Coming? Are you coming?

No, I just wanted... Come on then. Let's go. Uh, P.T., you gotta go. Answer the question, are you coming? Yes, I'm coming, I'm coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead. God bless.

Uh, July 8th, my birthday, we'll all go out. We'll do it on that day. Woo! Before the fight. Uh, thank you very much, P.T. Thank you to everyone who sent me questions. Come on, United! Come on! Yeah, yeah, yeah'm coming. I'm coming. Yeah. Yeah. God bless. July 8th my birthday. We'll all go out. We'll do it on that day Whoo for the fight. Thank you very much PC. Thank you to everyone who said Yeah, we hope that they don't let us down once again But we've got a lot to get to carrying cross is joining us in studio in an hour. Stay tuned for that That's gonna be incredible Michael Carter Williams to talk about his boxing debut in 30 minutes

But first we shall be joined right off the bat here by oh one of our favorites and we found out last week that he is returning to action in June, June 28 to be exact to fight Benildir, the fight that was supposed to happen back in January. He had a title fight to take on 24 hours notice. He's the one and only money Moicano, Renato Moicano joining us right now to talk about it all. There he is. Hello my friend. How are you? What's up Ariel? Very good is. Hello, my friend. How are you? What's up, Ariel? Very good, how about you, my friend?

Hey, did you get a new camera or something? You're looking a lot crisper. Yeah, yeah, I got a new camera. Wow, look at you. I got a new camera. Business is booming. Yeah, it's doing well, but to be honest, to be honest, this camera I got,

I went to the fucking casino and I throw my money on the roulette. I made a lot of money. Oh yeah. I bought some equipments for roulette. I made a lot of money. Oh, yeah. I bought some equipment for the show. How much did you win? I win, I think, 3,000. Wow.

I start with like 400 and then at the end of the night I was with 3,000 and say, okay, I'm good. I'm going to buy some stuff for my streaming. So not 3,000 in one spin, right? No, no. You built it up, okay. No. Not 3,000 in one spin, right? You built it up, okay. No, I don't know if you ever heard about this strategy, they call marching gale.

When you lose, you just, let's say I want to play the black one, you know? So if it falls on the red, I just double the black, double the black, double the black, eventually gonna go red again, you know? So I do this strategy and sometimes that works, sometimes don't. Wow, wow, do you go often to the casino?

No, not really, not really. We have the Show Me The Money podcast with Maddie, and Maddie is a degenerate, he lives in the casino, and after UFC Miami, I was getting back to my home and he say, hey, come here to the casino, let's play and say, okay, let's go. I don't like to my home and say hey come here to the casino let's play and say okay let's go I don't like to play with my money you know my money is hard sure when people give me money I can play you do that show with Gilbert Burns as well right you bet Burns and Marybeth how was

Gilbert doing after Saturday that was a tough one that was a tough one I have talked to him a little bit you know know. He's doing well, but especially now his wife is almost due to... They're going to have the baby soon, like in one or two weeks. So he's staying very focused on that right now. We didn't talk too much. I just congratulated him and said, it's life, you know, it's life. I am a fighter too.

I know what it takes and I know how hard it is when you lose. But I'm here to support you. I just tell him that and then I respect him and let him be with his family now. Yeah, that young kid is really good. Morales? Very good. I was surprised. I was surprised. I was not expecting a finish like that in the first round,

especially when the odds were so, now it's easy because now we can say, yeah, the odds were right. But when I saw the odds and I say, man, there is no way Gilbert Burns is a searcher underdog on this fight, but this guy Morales, he's just too big, right? He was looking like a light heavyweight

on the welterweight, very tall. And unfortunately, he was just too much for Gilbert. By the way, by the way, is today your birthday? Yeah, today my birthday. What are you doing on the show on your birthday? Don't you have better things to do than talk to us? This is incredible. Yes, of course. But I mean, in the training camp your birthday? Don't you have better things to do than talk to us? This is incredible. Yes, of course.

But I mean, in the training camp, I was training, you know, and I don't care too much about dates, you know. I think time is relative, you know. I think that's all human engineers, so I don't care too much about work. Wow. Feliz cumpleaños? How do you say? Feliz aniversario. This is Spanish.

Okay, yes, yes. That's good too, my brother. I can understand. aniversario. This is Spanish. That's good too, my brother. I can understand. That's amazing. That's amazing. If you could kind of like will one wish into existence for this upcoming year for you, what would it be? Oh, man.

I wish I can get like a couple wings, you know, and fight for the belt eventually. Because I know I'm 36, like I'm not, like I'm starting to decline my prime, but I still have so much things to say, you know, so much things to show, and I have to keep working, keep fighting, and keep doing my thing, and I hope I can, I hope I have time to fight one more time for the belt.

But who knows? No, you will, you will, 100%. That one doesn't count. You took that one on short notice. That one doesn't count. That's not a real title shot. You know that, right? Yeah, I know that.

I know that. You're still on a winning streak, if you ask me. No, no, that's a, I don't believe in that. Yeah, that one doesn't count. By the way, you're opening a new gym next week. Yes. Congratulations. Where is it? Thank you so much. Coral Springs, you're opening a new gym next week. Yes. Congratulations. Where is it?

Thank you so much. Coral Springs, you know, Coral Springs, we start to do a, thank you for mentioning that on the show. Of course. If you are here from South Florida, we starting a new gym. We teaching like people like martial arts, discipline, all that stuff.

If you want to follow, by the way, this is my kid like training. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah, because when I thought about this gym, I thought, man, I want some place to bring my friends, to bring my family, to bring kids. And I love America Top Team, but America Top Team now is just for professional fighters.

It's just for people that fights in UFC, Bellator, you know? So you cannot bring family. And I think they are right because over there, it's not for fun, right? It's business. But I always, when I was in Brazil, I always used to bring my wife, kids, and everybody, my friends to the gym.

And then I thought, okay, I think I can build up a gym and set up a good environment for my family. But also some other people can take advantage of that. Some people can learn martial arts and build up a good relationship with the community, with the people from South Florida. So if you are from South Florida, please go over there. We are, the gym are open until May 31st.

May 31st is going to be the inauguration, but until now you can train for free. So take advantage on that. Wow, for free? You can just walk in right now? Yeah, walking. You just walk in and you train and you see if you enjoy. You see if you like the coaches and the people

and the environment. And if you do, next month we will like the coaches and the people and the environment. And if you do, next month we will charge you. Because this is a business. Yes, parabens, parabens, that's amazing. Thank you so much, my friend, thank you. By the way, my favorite part of the Fight Nights has to be your tweets.

Your tweets are unbelievable. Like last week, when someone said to you, please tweet in English, and you said you're not gonna tweet in English for this shit card, I mean, that was amazing. You consistently, this one right here, I'm not going to waste my English on an Apex card. You make me laugh. Yeah, I don't know how this gets like 13k. That's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. There was another one where you showed the one that killed me was that

one guy, Ryan Frederick, with his scorecard. You said, who the f*** is this guy on every card? Did they show his scorecard? You said who is this guy on every card? Did they show his scorecards? Yeah, that's unbelievable because, man, is this guy a guy named Korean? I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is too. He's not Korean Zombie, but I don't know. It's a couple names that if you're watching UFC Apex fight nights they show up I don't know Korean John Korean John Korean John that's the name not Koreanism Korean John and that is couple other other guys that they show every apex card I don't know why I think these guys they are paying a fee to so you have to can show them up

it's like a burner account they're in the they're in the the truck and they're just like we need some people talking about the third prelim fight on the Apex card. Yes, exactly. Unbelievable. Well, you're going back to Las Vegas, not at the Apex, thank God. You'll be on International Fight Week. Were you happy with the date, with the opponent? Were you happy with all of it? I'm happy. I'm happy with the date. I'm happy with the opponent. I think that's the fight to make, right?

We were supposed to fight on the card back on the beginning of the year. And fortunately for me, right? I got this chance to fight for the belt, I got good money. But looking at the rankings, there is not much fights available right now. So I think Dariush is a good opponent and I think it's going to be a fun fight. Kind of nice because you prepared for him already, right?

You did a whole camp for him. Yes, we did a whole camp for him so I know why he's good. He knows what I do, you know. There is no mystery on the fight. I just have to go over there and do my thing, you know? I have to be better than him. I'm a little bit younger than him. I used to call him old, but right now I'm 36,

so I cannot call him old anymore. You know? Now you're the same age. It's crazy. Now we are the same age. Yeah, when I was 35, I could call him older, but right now, 36, we are the same, too old, mother fuckers. By the way, after that fight in January the crazy circumstances, how long did it take for you to get over it?

We spoke to you on the Monday So I'm sure there was some time after did you did you lick your wounds for a little bit? Were you sad or did you get right back on the horse? No, I got I got right back on the horse because I know there is no much time left for me You saw so I have to take advantage of that. So for me, even though I lost, I got really big, especially in Brazil because I fought for the belt. And the way I talk, I talk like natural. I don't prepare speeches or anything like that,

but people just like to hear me talk. So I went to a lot of speeches in Brazil. I did a lot of stuff. My YouTube channel in Portuguese is doing pretty, pretty well. I'm doing very, very good. I got a lot of sponsors. So I'm doing all the business like I have the gene. I have a couple of the business that I'm doing. So I put my head on work and I'm doing this.

By the way, that's nice. I didn't talk about that. I didn't know I was coming to the show but Since a lot of people were asking me to to do YouTube videos in English I was just doing the Portuguese now I am doing the Portuguese one But I just did a vlog of a training camp Showing America Top Team showing my training. I did an interview with Mateus Ganra. So if you want to check it out this, go to my channel, Renato Money Moicano,

and check the latest video I just uploaded today. He's getting good views from now. So go over there and check because I did like a subtitle, but I speak a lot of English on this video too, so if you are an American, if you speak in English now, you can follow my journey until I beat the shit out of Dariush on June, on the end of June. I love it, I love it.

But why so long in between fights? Five months? I thought maybe you'd come back a little sooner. Yes, I want to come back a little sooner, but you know what? UFC, you know what's going on. UFC is having a lot of trouble with the top 10, with the top 15, right?

Because nobody was getting fights. You see Mateus Ganouf fight Ludovic Klein next weekend, not this one, the next one. He's number seven, fighting a guy outside the ranking. So this thing with Islam Makachev, you know, Topulia, Charles, all that stuff, I think they just figured it out last week, you know? They just figured it out and they released the contract,

they released to the public, but I think they didn't know what to do with that. I was asking for a fight before. I want to fight as much as possible. I was very disappointed that we didn't get Ilya versus Islam. One last fight and then he moves up. What did you think? What did you think about it all? Me too, me too. I think I would like to watch Islam and Topura and I think right now I think Ilya Topura would beat Islam Makachev. Wow. I think so, I think so, I think. You think he'd knock him out like he did in 145?

Man, we know it's very hard to knock Volkanovsky out. You know how good Volkanovsky showed up on his last performance against a very dangerous guy. Volkanovsky, he looked on his prime again. He did the five rounds. Man, Max Holley. Max Holley just went to the lightweight division in the beginning of the last year, knocked one of the most dangerous guys in the division, and then got

back to 45 and got knocked out by Topura, so that shows. Topura is, I think he's the real deal, and I think with his grappling and like the way he moves his head and his boxing, I think he would impose a lot of trouble to Islam Akashev. But now it's just speculation. We're not gonna see that fight anytime soon. So let's see what Charles and Topuri are gonna do. What do you think, Ariel, about this fight?

Do you like the matchup? Charles being the guy that fight for the belt? I wanted Islam, that's the one I really wanted. If it's not Islam, I think it's the fight that makes the most sense. I saw Justin Gaethje say he was disappointed, he was offended. I don't know if there's anyone else

that makes sense for Ilya to fight. I saw that you posted something where you said piss break, piss break, piss break, banger. So it seems like you're not so interested in it. No, no. That was not me, you know. I thought it was you. That was a Twitter account.

No, that was a Twitter account. Because it said piss break for your fight too. Yes. Yes. That was, I stole from somebody, from some account, I think it's Art of Violence or something like that. Art, I don't remember the name, but I think that's account, I think it's Art of Violence or something like that, I don't remember the name. But I think that's interesting, I'm going to post as it's mine, but it's not mine.

Okay, so what do you think? Do you think Ilya wins? Do you think he beats Charles? Yes, but I hope no. know. You know? Why? I don't know, man. Last weekend I did a podcast with Charles Oliveira and he's such a great guy, you know, such a humble dude that makes you cheer for him, you know? Yeah. Man, especially me from Brazil. One thing is American when people say, hey, this guy comes from the favelas, he was really poor, but they don't know, you know, they don't know. But you, but me, that born in Brazil and they know why he's being true and the guys be such a cool dude, like respectful and humble and he got everything from the scratch and now he was a former champion,

having the possibility to be a champion against a guy as Eli, I just hope, having the possibility to be a champion against a guy as Ilya, I just hope he wins, you know, that's like a dream. But you know, that's real life. Real life doesn't give a shit. So I don't know. I hope Charles wins. But I think Topuria should be the favorite. What about you? Yes, I agree with that as well. I'm very curious to see how he looks at 155. Ilya, I think he's going to have great success. I think it's a great matchup I just wish again I just wish we saw it

Ilia versus Islam because that to me is one of the very best matchups at the UFC could put on Regardless of weight class it was right there And I think Islam could have fought that fight and regardless of the outcome of that fight then move up to 170 and fight for The belt he has earned that even if he would have lost I would have been okay with him fighting for the belt at 170 after losing to Ilja. So I just wish it's in a month, do that fight, give us what we want. You were ready to fight on that date because you told us if Bilal retained, you were going to fight on that date. So it seemed like you were ready, you were preparing for it. Just give us that fight and then give us the JDM fight. Now who do you think wins? JDM or Islam?

Man, I will be looking like a… You're sitting on the fence? You know the JDM fight. Now who do you think wins? JDM or Islam? Man, I will be looking like a... You're sitting on the fence? A Makachev hater. Yeah, no. I will be like... I know this guy is hating Makachev just because Makachev beat him up. Oh. But it's not that. I just think... I just think this guy JDM, he's good at boxing. He's good. The way he was doing the sweep

and he working on his grappling, I think he's going to be a very tough matchup to Islam Akhachab especially because like you say, it's not easy to move up divisions, you know? You have to gain a lot of weight, you have to put a lot of muscle, you have to put a lot of strength, you have to put a lot of strength and training. And I just don't know.

I think it's not gonna be an easy fight for both. And if I had to put my money, I would put on JDM. For you though, it's good that Islam's gone, right? It's good if there's a new champion because that opens a path for you. I don't know, I don't know, I don't, and I don't even care, you know, Ariel. What I think is I have to win fights and I

have to make some noise. It's all about that. Now it's clear as the UFC is a business and they don't care about anybody. They care about making money and I don't think they are wrong. I think they are right. This is a very good business model. And if Moikano can go over there and make a statement, make good fights, and if the fans are behind me, I can go over there and fight for the belt again. So simple as that. I just have to win and I just have to talk what I have to talk. And if everything goes right, I fight for the belt, you know. What do you think of what's happened to Armand Tsurukian? You know, since January, he hasn't fought,

he's turned down fights allegedly, reportedly. Your friend Mateus saying that, he was quoted as saying he wasn't interested in it and it seems like he's in the dog house. It seems like they're unhappy with him. I think they are unhappy with him and I think, I don't think he has as many fans as people think. I would not say people think, but let's take Sean O'Malley.

You know, Sean O'Malley lost arguably all rounds for Merab Di Valtiviglia and he's fighting Di Valtiviglia next. Why? I think because he sells. Because UFC sees potential in him of selling tickets. I think it's the same in every division. So if they don't put Tsarukyan, that means that he doesn't sell that much. I think it's that.

People still think UFC is sport, but UFC is entertainment, you know. They want to sell tickets, they want people watching, they want people talking, and you just need to put fighters that the fans are behind, you know. So I think that's why they treat him like that. But I don't agree the way they are treating him. I think he should be fighting with Topuria. Because if you see this is a sport, I think he should be the number one contender. I think he should fight for the belt against Elias Topuria.

But I think Charles Oliveira got a lot more charisma than him. I think Charles got a lot more followers. I think people like Charles a lot better than he so that's why Charles is fighting for the belt. I think he's easy as that by the way. It's a great point they also fought each other at UFC 300 you were on that card as well and and Armin won the fight you also fought back in September Benoit Saint-Denis. He won a couple weeks ago, Montreal Do you think he's back? Did you like what you saw from him? No, I think I think he look Stiff on the on the on the standing like he was taking a lot of shots. The guy was not really good

you know the guy was like 19 in 8 or 7 or something like that was not a really Top contender was not I is not was not a guy that Deserves to be on the top or fight somebody on the top 15. We know, man, I would like to see the Joe Alvarez fight against him. That was the fight that I would like to watch.

What about Gamrond? Yeah, Gamrond too, you know? Gamrond too, I think. If you watch my video today on my YouTube channel, I say that about Gamrond. I was mad that BSD was, after the fight, was calling Gage and calling Ganrao because he rejected the fight. They offered him Ganrao and they said no. They offered him Gage, the Gage fight and he said no. So now you're going

to call them out and you didn't look that great on your performances. So I didn't like, you know, but again, he's very popular in France. I saw that firsthand when I went to Paris. I was seeing like billboards with him, you know, like all over the place. He's a huge star in France, especially in Paris. So UFC is going to treat him very well. You don't have many French guys on UFC. You don't have many French guys on UFC. You don't have many French guys that popular, you know, other than Cedric Gain, right?

And other than Manon Fiorot. So I think that that scarcity is going to make UFC treat him very well. But he didn't look that good. Fair enough. Fair enough. You know, I think you just said that the UFC is a business. I think that the man who will fight the winner of Ilya versus Charles is going to be your friend, Patti Pimblit. I think they're going to give him a title shot, especially if it's Ilya.

100%. 100%. I believe that's so. And fair enough, you know. He did well on his last fight against him. Were you impressed? Were you impressed with him? I was. I was, to be honest. But to be completely honest with you, I don't want to sound like a hater again, but I think he just exposed Chandler, right? I think Chandler got exposed bad. I think he's getting too old.

I don't think he belongs to the top 15 anymore, you know? If you see his record, his two winnings were against Tony Ferguson and Dan Huka. So I don't know, I think Michael Chandler maybe is done. But I was impressed with Pimlet. UFC loves him, like I said, the same thing that I say about Sugar Shane. He has a lot of fans, a lot of followers, a lot of people to watch him. So they're going to make his way easier. And there is nothing wrong with that. It's business. He's going to sell tickets. He's going to promote UFC on Europe, on London, or wherever. And it is what it is. This is

a private company and they should do like they are doing. In my opinion, they are doing great. That's why they are the biggest MMA show in the world. I always love your takes on the business, on the sport. The big story of the week is this John Jones, Tom Aspinall thing. What do we do with this? Is it time to move on?

What do we do here? I think honestly they should strip John Jones, you know, because it's just too much time. John Jones is doing the same thing that Conor McGregor did to Michael Chandler, you know, just trying to make the guy lose time. I don't think he's fighting anymore. Yesterday we saw the video, he's saying that he's done. So I think it's time for Tom Aspinall to fight somebody for the belt. What do you think? Does this ruin his legacy? I don't think so. I don't think so. I would like to watch Jones against Ingano at the time and against Tom Aspino you know but not

fighting then I don't think it will hurt his legacy but definitely if he had fought both of these guys he would cement his legacy as the greatest of all time, no doubt. But what I think is going to happen is I think UFC is going to push against him. But we never know because in the end of the day, there is this business deal with ESPN Plus, right? They are trying to move to the Netflix. I don't know. UFC will need to be very clever with that because they need stars and they don't know UFC will be to be you have say you have see we need to be very clever with that You know because they need stars and they don't have McGregor. They don't have a Honda house

They don't have the the same household names anymore. You know who is the the most popular fighter right now in UFC I don't I would say Alex Pereira and Alex Pereira is not even champion You know right so that's why I think they need John Jones They need need that big names, but I don't think John Jones is fighting anymore No, I think he gave them a number I think he didn't expect them to meet his number and then my understanding is they did and then he said Yeah, you know, I'm I'm good. I'm making a ton of money out. He's doing a reality show in Russia. He's in Thailand He's got all kinds of money out. He's doing a reality show in Russia. He's in Thailand. He's got all kinds of deals. He said life is good.

I think he said I could go out undefeated. Why do I need to fight this guy? I'll make that money elsewhere. My legacy is good. It's a shame because we wanted to see the fight and I feel for Tom Aspinall who's been sitting around waiting since July and fought for 60 seconds, but it's time to move on. Enough is enough, right? Yeah. I think it's time to move on. So right now we have to think who you're going to put against Tom Aspinall.

Probably Cyril Gagne. Cyril Gagne, yes. That's the problem, you know. There's not a lot of great options. There's not a lot of great options right now, exactly. So imagine if they put Ankalaev against Aspenal. I think that would be better, right? Nah, 205. You want him to go up to 205, Big Ang? Yeah, I think he should because he's not getting any fights.

I never see something crazy like that, Iri Prorasha saying he's not fighting, right? I think this is the most- They're going to do the prayer fight, but someone hacked his account. The Perera now, definitely they did the hacking. What do you think about that? Do you think somebody hacked his account? No, no, no, I don't think so. Yeah, that was that was the most benevolent hacker that I ever see, you know? He goes over there and instead of like scam people, we're gonna do all the right things for you? I don't think that's right. By the way, I just saw this. They sent it to me.

Bitcoin set a new all time high today, Wednesday, on your birthday, breaking its record from around the time of the inauguration in January. What is this? 109,565? What does that mean? That means the dollar is not worth much. Let me tell you something. Today, I bought 25K in Bitcoin on the all-time high.

25K and people say, hey, Mercado, you're crazy. You're giving liquidity to the market. That means I'm giving money so people can take out the money and I'm giving liquidity to the market. People say that. But trust me, in 10 years, today price is going to be cheap because there is no way to fight inflation. I know Donald Trump these all these things with the doge trying to control the prices,

trying to avoid stupid expanding. But this is not how democracy works. Democracy is very bad. People want free shit, and eventually in four years, in eight years, they're gonna change the rules, and people still want welfare. And this is a problem with modern state and modern money theory.

That means inflation will hit no matter what. So Bitcoin is still very cheap. We still very early and I don't care if I'm buying all time high because I'm not buying I'm saving money. Every time that I'm buying Bitcoin I'm saving money. By the way this is not financial advice you know and huge shoot out to my sponsor, Kraken. Nowadays I have a very good sponsor, Kraken. You have a financial sponsor now? No, it's not financial. They message me because I love to talk about Bitcoin

and people always ask me, what platform do you use? And I use Kraken. So I make money telling the truth, telling that I buy Bitcoin and I use Kraken. So it's a game-games situation. Wow, I love this. And this is an app, right? This is an app, yeah.

Over there. It's very good for Brazil too because now they can buy with PIX. So I'm doing PIX. It's like the Zelle. Back in the day we didn't have the Zelle, you know? That transferring money easy as that. So right now they have in Brazil. And a lot of people are, especially if you're in Brazil, man, if you are in America, it's

still good because you still have the dollar. The dollar is still the global currency. It is melting ice cube. You're losing money every fucking year, but you're losing less. If you're holding reais, you're fucked, bro. You're fucked because every year they increase the monetary supply of the money by 20% year over year. So you're losing your money every year.

So you have to save it. And to save, I recommend you to study Bitcoin. Wow, it's always such a pleasure to have you on Hinatao, really. I love when you give us some of these gems, these financial gems. I don't own any Bitcoin, I should probably do it. But in my thing, like I can't go to the store

and buy milk with Bitcoin, so it's really not. Yes. It feels like fantasy. But you cannot go to the store and buy milk with gold too right that's a good point yeah but hey I have you I could go to Kingdom Martial Arts and sign up with Bitcoin right exactly you can sign up with Bitcoin and like I say this is I don't recommend you to spend to spend your Bitcoin because what's the point

of holding Bitcoin if you're going to use to buy stuff? You have to use Bitcoin as a reserve, as gold. You don't go on the streets and you try to buy stuff with gold. So this is like a hedge. You have to put over there to preserve your hard-working money. So, and we have other, we have other, how do I say, layers, right? You have the lightning Bitcoin that you can send and transfer money very easily and with no fees at all,

very cheap fees, like one cent fees, you know, one satoshi fees. So we're gonna use the second layer, but I don't recommend you to spend your Bitcoin. Why would you spend Bitcoin that in 10 years that's going to worth a lot more, you know? And Adiel, to be honest, I think you should try to learn about that and should try to learn what people are doing with your money, and that's not fucking good. Thank you, Hainato.

You're the man. Happy birthday. Thank you so much.. You're the man. Happy birthday. Thank you so much. Much love. I always love when you come on. We appreciate you very much and we look forward to your return on June 28th in Las Vegas. Good luck to you, my friend.

Thank you so much, Ariel. Thank you so much, everybody that is watching. If you like to hear me talking, go to Renato Manny Moicano channel and watch my last video. Thank you so much. Os. Os.

My guy, there he is. Renato Moicano. What a guy, what a gent gent joining us on his 36th birthday you gotta love that I had no idea until they told me earlier and I really appreciate him dropping some financial knowledge some gems on us as well. Alright in about 30 minutes time we're going to be joined by Karrion Cross in studio formerly known as Killer Cross a highly anticipated chat with one of the hottest in the game right now. But I'm very excited about our next chat. I have actually

spoken to this gentleman before in the past, mainly about the NBA, a little bit about our beloved Syracuse Orange. We both went there. 2014 NBA Rookie of the Year. Longtime NBA veteran, played for the Sixers, the Bucks, the Bulls, the Hornets, the Magic. Had a great NBA career, but from time to time, I would see him at UFC events. Have talked to him about combat sports. Know he's a big combat sports fan. I know that his daughter is an active jiu-Jitsu practitioner doing great things in her own

right. And then all of a sudden I see a report that he's going to be stepping into the ring. He'll be competing on May 29th in an actual boxing match. And so I said, we have to have Michael Carter Williams, 6'6", fighting at heavyweight. Could this be the next great american heavyweight champion of the world so he is joining us right now alongside his trainer giovanni estrellas they are kind enough to join us to talk about this great event on the twenty ninth of may

hello guys how are you mcw giovanni thanks for joining us thank you well it's always a pleasure to be on okay so i'm excited about this and uh... i'm i'm really curious about how this all came about so just to get it right you are competing Michael On the 29th of May Broad Street brawl in a three round heavyweight fight The event is gonna raise funds for big vision community a nonprofit organization dedicated to supporting young adults in recovery from substance abuse Hopefully I got that right if I didn't please let me know It's happening right here in New York, which is incredible. 41 Broad Street. How did this all come about and why are you doing this?

It kind of came about, well, my friend Dan, Anya Bunham, he was the one who told me about it because he's competing as well. So he told me about it after I retired, gained a bunch of weight. It wasn't working out that much. So I started working out, just lifting, whatever, trying to stay in shape. But then it wasn't giving me that fix. So I was like, you know me, I love boxing, I love MMA, combat sports. So I started doing a little bit of boxing. And then, you know, once my friend told me about that he's competing, you know, I was like, you know, I want to compete too. And, you know, I kind of started taking it serious.

And, you know, each day I started liking it more and more. And then, you know, I met Jovan and, you know, he started training me and, you know, he boxes himself. So it's, it's been fun. It's been a good time. And just to follow up there, it's one thing to do it for fun. It's one thing to do it to stay in shape, but to actually compete is a whole other thing.

Like Thursdays and Fridays, I box as well. I have no grand plans of fighting anyone. I'm not built like that. So why go from just like trying to do it, spar, have fun, to actually competing against another human being? I think it's just to scratch that itch. You know, I've been competing my whole life and that's something that I want to do. I want to continue to compete. And I respect the sport. I'm a big fan.

I watch a lot. I got a lot of friends that fight. So for me, it's more of just, I want to scratch that itch. And then. And. Well, buddy. Was that one of your kids this is right come here buddy come here say hi let's say uh look at this uh what's

up say what's up right here look right here what's his name say what's up red red what's happening my man i'm showing show them why you put your hands up. Show them. Yeah, I like that. Coming soon to ring near you. By the way, am I pronouncing your name correctly? Is it Giovon or Giovanni? Giovanni. Giovanni.

And the last name is Estella. Estella. So how did you meet Michael? Estella. Okay, sorry. How did you meet Michael and how would you assess his journey as a boxer? I met Michael a couple years back officially, but he was training with one of our mutual friends and they were training him just for fun, like how you were saying.

And that same mutual friend a couple years later now hits me up saying that Michael needs a new head coach and that he has this fight upcoming. And he told me what times would work and stuff like that. I said, perfect. But if I'm going to train him and he's going to take this fight, we're going to take it full. We're going to take it like if he's debuted in professional and I want to give him the whole fighter camp, meaning training in the morning, training in the afternoon, strength

and conditioning on certain days, sparring with certain people. And yeah, if I train him, I want to win. So that's the main thing. But definitely he has that fight May 29th and I'm excited with how much he's came across in these last two months that I've been training him. When he brought this idea to you,

were you on board right away or did you want to see a few things out of him in order to say, okay, I'm going to train you for this fight on the 29th of May? So when I saw him, when I met him a couple years back, he was training with my friend and I knew that coach was a good trainer and stuff, but he wasn't training to fight. I don't know if he was even sparring at that time, but I had told my friend, let me see him in the gym like two months ago. Let me see how he's moving and stuff like that. And we'll see if we see him in the gym like two months ago.

Let me see how he's moving and stuff like that and we'll see if we're ready for a fight in two months. And from first day that he showed up, I thought he was going to be out of shape. Yeah, that was like first week. Wow. He was going to be out of shape, that he was going to be tired. And now he stayed in shape. He came in with his six pack ready to go training hard and he definitely has a big heart.

So like even in the sparrings third, fourth, fifth around, he's pushing it, giving it all he got. So have you been sparring for this Michael Carter Williams? Like are you actually going out there and sparring other guys or are you just hitting mitts? No, no, I'm sparring heavy at least two times a week. Wow. Yeah. How many rounds? In there. We I'm sparring heavy at least two times a week. Wow. Oh yeah. So yeah. How many rounds in there?

Uh, we've been sparring like four or five rounds and we've been sparring three minute rounds to our fight is only two minute rounds. It's three, two minute rounds. We've been fighting, we've been sparring three minute rounds. Um, and we, I've spart a bunch of different people. I've spart him a bunch of times. I'm thankful I've got some heavyweight sparring partners. So I don't have to spar him anymore.

Cause he, he, he because he was whooping me for a while so I'm glad I got some more people on my level but yeah no I've been sparring a lot, it's been fun. I got a few black eyes here and there so you know I've definitely been wearing it well. And like the just like the experience of getting punched in the face is something that you kind of have to get used to right especially if you're used to doing another athletic competition that doesn't involve getting punched in the face like we've heard of wrestlers in the face is something that you kind of have to get used to, right? Especially if you're used to doing another athletic competition that doesn't involve getting punched in the face. Like we've heard of wrestlers in the past saying like, I just didn't like getting punched. When I say wrestlers, I mean, collegiate wrestlers, Olympic wrestlers, amateur wrestlers. Early on, as you're getting punched in the face and sparring, how are you taking to it? Did that

take some time for you to get used to or used to it off the bat? You know, honestly, I was kind of used to it off the bat. That's one of, I was kind of used to it off the bat. That's one of the things like going in and sparring where I was kind of proud of myself, where I like, I wasn't nervous, like I wasn't jittery. I try to go in there aggressive and that, you know, I took my licks a bunch of times. So yeah, I honestly, I was aggressive.

It didn't faze me as much. And you know, obviously getting hit, there was a few times where I was like, okay, that's what it feels like to, you know, get your bell rung a little bit too. That was one of the things that I was happy with when I first chose to put him to spar. Cause I was like, oh, I have a couple people around 200

to 230 pounds, but before I put them with Michael, that I've never seen on the spot, I want to put them with myself, see how Michael does with me, see how the punch is coming at him. If if he's gonna get scared and go back if he's gonna come forward And how he's gonna take a punch. So that's something that me myself with my experience. I was trying to test I was trying to get him tired trying to push him to that brink that if he's gonna push or he's gonna say timeout Shit like that. So definitely he he surprised me on that first sparring and it was, it was, it showed me

a base of what I'm starting with. And it's a completely different fighter from, from then to these two months that we've trained. And you know what you're talking about Giovanni, you're 14 and two, you're a super welterweight, you fought on MVP cards at the Caribe Royale, matchroom cards as well. So you've been around this fight game for a long time. Do you feel like he has that gene, that that thing that separates fighters from regular people? Does he have that toughness? I think I do and it's because of the athleticness that comes already from the NBA. Him, that dedication to get into such a high division

in the basketball, he just switches it on to that training and boxing and it works. Like he gives it 150%. We just got off of a training not even an hour ago and we're here doing the interview. Wow. I love that. The one of the things that I thought of Michael, when I thought of all this, when I was thinking about it, you've talked openly about mental health, about, you know, battling, you know, depression and all that stuff. There's nothing better than these workouts, right? When you're needing a boost,

when you're needing to feel better about yourself. Like I would imagine, I don't think you're dealing with that now, but I would imagine this puts you in a great state of mind on a consistent basis, right? No, for sure. And obviously, retiring, every player goes through something after they retire, right?

Like what's next for me? There's that transition period. And it's been a good outlet for me. Just going to the gym, working out, hitting myths, training for something, doing for something bigger than myself. It definitely inspires me and it definitely gives me an outlet.

And so are you doing this as a one-off? Is it a one and done next Thursday, you scratch the itch and you're done? Or is there a chance you love this, you're victorious and you decide to do it again? I think I want to, I wanna do it again. I don't know where it's gonna take me. I don't know where it's gonna lead me. I know that there's an avenue for people

who played professional sports, who enter the boxing ring. There's a lane there. But I don't know, I'm really taking it kind of one step at a time. It's something that I wanna get really good at. It's something that I wanna get better at, whether I compete again or I just keep practicing and sparring.

So I'm definitely not putting the gloves down after this fight. I definitely wanna keep going. How does your family and in particular, your wife feel about this? I asked her and she was like, it's not my favorite thing in the world, but I can tell that it's an outlet for you.

So she's all right, she's on board with it. They'll be at the fight, my kids will be there. Okay, I love this. And what is this event? Can you tell us more about it? It seems like it's for a great cause. How did you get associated with them? Um, yeah. So like I said, my friend of mine, he actually is doing the event as well. Okay. Told me about it. It's for, you know, drug and alcohol abuse. It's a charity event. And

it's something that I kind of want to see. I want to see the layout of how it is right. Like maybe, you know, I do my own charity, you know, boxing event and, you know, learn a lot from this and put on, you know, different types of shows myself. That's something that I've thought about too. I believe your opponent's name is Sam Khatib, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. Is that right? It's Khatib. I think they got it wrong in an article and people kind of ran with it. Okay.

But it's Kata. Okay. Is there any footage on this guy? Like Giovanni, are you able to find out anything or does it not really matter in a fight like this? I saw a couple of little reels on Instagram, stuff like that. Some footage of him sparring and stuff like that with other people in his gym. I actually met one of his sparring partners because I'm doing team combat league for the New York team for boxing. And while I'm showing people clips of Michael doing good and sparring and stuff, one of the heavyweights go, you said Michael Carter-Williams? I'm sure that's going to fight him. Oh, wow.

We're going to be going at it then. Definitely, I saw some footage. I like how the fight is gonna look. I think Michael has trained very hard and has sparred with both righty, lefty, people that go forward, people that go backwards. So I'm trying to give him the feeling of everything. All I want is to see how he does with each one, how he can adapt. So I think we're going to be very good for May 29th. We've seen athletes from the stick and ball sports come over to combat sports. We've seen NBA players, most recently Darren Williams on a Jake Paul card. Any relationship with him?

Did you ask him? He beat Frank Gore on that night. Did you ask him what it was like competing in boxing for the first time under the lights, so to speak? Um, I didn't talk to D Will. I haven't talked to him about it. I watched the fight. Um, you know, I, I, you could tell that, you know, he trained, um, you know, and he, you know, he looked pretty good, obviously, but the, towards the end, you know, he was, you know, they were both winded. Yeah. Obviously it's, it's tough. It's, it's, honestly, it surprised me. Like, obviously I know the shape that, that fighters have to be in,

but just doing it is like, you know, it's a lot different than, than basketball shape. And it does take a lot to get into good shape. So for me, it was like, I want to be in the best shape possible. And, you know, I want to take it serious. I want to go out and train, right. I don't want to look like I just, you know, put on the boxing gloves and went out there and, you know, just doing it because I liked it, right? Like I want to, you know, gradually get better. I want to, you know, do certain things. I want to be able to correct myself

and I want to be in shape. Head gear, what do you compete with? Head side gear. Okay. And how big are the gloves? 16 ounce. Okay. And are you like, is it is it possible you know this has become

a thing right it's a whole business influencer boxing all these misfit cards and and all this stuff like is that something in the back of your mind? Would you would you actually like to take this and create a whole second career here? Yeah I mean listen I've thought about it I watched it, I've looked at it, I've looked at the heavyweight champ. Wow. Yeah, I definitely have my, I definitely got my eye out on it for sure. Have you talked to them yet? I haven't. I haven't yet. I haven't yet. I wanted to get this under my belt first, you know, kind of see what happens and then, you know, I'll go from there.

Would you be in favor of this, Javani? I would. I would, especially as how the people see him do the 29th and see what he's made of. He will also get to see what he's made of in an actual fight as well. I always say the the myths are way different from sparring. The sparring is way different from a fight. So I would like to see how he does in this fight. The main thing I was trying to do from the beginning is get him comfortable with that smoke coming in with him in that fire in, in the sparring, and he's at that point that he's very comfortable. He knows what to do. He listens on a dime if I call a certain shot

or I call a combo. So the comfortability is there. The listening is there. He's very trainable, and that's the best thing to do when you're in a boxing or fighting sport. I believe, Michael, you're six foot six, right? Correct, yep. Is it hard, Giovanni six foot six, right? Correct, yeah. Is it hard, Giovanni, to find sparring partners who are around his size?

It wasn't too hard. It probably took me like a week, week and a half until I started asking because I did the first like three or four sparrings with him. The first two weeks I did the sparring with him and it was me trying to push him back, me trying to get him tired, me landing those uncomfortable body shots, those uncomfortable head shots to push him back and get him as tired as possible. And now he's at that point that after I did my four sparring with him, one of the guys

that was there, he was also a coach. He said, you know that I got two heavyweights if you ever want to move him. One's green, one's not so green. And we did a big sparring of four of us, including Michael. And Michael did great. Michael did great. He sparred four rounds in a row with four different people. And he did great.

And it really shocked me. It really shocked me with how he did with other people compared to someone with experience like myself. And ever since then, we've been sparring every two days and Thursdays with two or three heavyweights at a time. Like to give them a new person to get Michael more tired, get Michael's air better at the same time. Last time you played professionally was 23, 24 in Mexico City, right?

Ultimately, why did you decide to say, okay, I'm done? Honestly, my ankle couldn't go anymore. Like I was trying to fight through it. I was trying to rehab. I had back-to-back surgeries on my ankle. I had reconstructive surgery on my ankle. And it just wasn't, I couldn't get the same lift anymore. I felt like I lost the step. I felt like my mind was telling me to do things that my body couldn't do. So at that point, I was like, you know what? I think the road for me to get back to the NBA was too long. You know what, I think the road for me to get back to the NBA was too long.

And you know, I've been away for nine, 10 years. I was away for a very long time, away from my kids, my family. And I was like, you know what, the juice isn't worth the squeeze anymore for me. So at that point I was like, I wanna be more attentive to my kids. Like I wanna life outside of this.

And that's the ultimate reason why I stopped. Obviously not a lot of jumping in boxing, but a lot of movement, lateral movement. How does the ankle hold up when you're in the ring? It felt great, honestly, right? The pounding on my ankle isn't as much, right? It's lateral movements, it's small movements, it's not... Even when I run, I'm okay running. I think it was more for basketball is more the jumping.

It was, it was, it was my, it's my jumping leg too. It was my left leg. So, you know, get lift and then the cuts, the cuts, cutting back and forth. So that, that, that was just too much. And then, you know, the, the, the longevity of it, right? The, the longevity of the games and you know, how many games we play, how many minutes we play.

Like it was just a, it was just a long thing. What do you think you'll feel like on May 29th? You've played on the biggest stages, you've played NTAA, Syracuse, playoff games, all that stuff. Do you think you'll be super nervous? This is totally different obviously and it's mano-i-mano. What do you think you'll feel like in the locker room before as you're getting your hands wrapped, putting the gloves on, all that stuff? I think I'll be excited. Obviously nerves come with any sporting event that you're getting your hands wrapped, putting the gloves on, all that stuff? I think I'll be excited. You know, obviously nerves come with any sporting event that you're going to do, but I think overall I'll be excited. I think the sparring has really helped me, right?

It's almost like a glorified sparring session, right? And I watched a lot of, I've watched a lot of guys even before I've, you know, decided I was going to box. I've watched like a lot of mindset, like what is their thought process going in the, you know, going into the ring or going into the octagon or whatever So so yeah, I mean I'm gonna be I'm gonna be excited for it It's you know, it's gonna be I know I'm going against somebody my level. So I'm excited

So Giovanni, it's a NYC attitude in the team combat league What is team combat league for those that may not know and and I believe, is this the league that Francis Nganu, one of his coaches, Dewey Cooper is a part of? Yes, I'm pretty sure he is. Team combat league is kind of like a basketball game, but it's like 16 players on a team, 16 fighters, and there's 24 rounds of fighting. And let's say Michael was our heavyweight,

I would be the middleweight. I would do my round. If I win, my team team gets nine uh ten points the other team gets nine. If Michael wins and he drops somebody uh we get ten the other the losing team gets eight. So it goes like that for 24 rounds everybody's fighting one or two rounds since there's 16 people uh 16 people will fight once and then eight people will fight twice uh eight of those 16 people will fight once and then eight people will fight twice. Eight of those 16 people will have to fight twice in what's called the money round, which you go twice. I did my debut, I want to say three weeks ago for the team and I went 2-0 against a

22-1 fighter from Argentina. It was very fast paced. I was really surprised. I'm used to fighting eight, six to 10 rounds in pro boxing where you can take your time. You take those first two rounds to kind of study the boxer and see what that guy got. But first round, it was 10 seconds and this guy was trying to jump on top. Everybody's looking for a knockout. A lot of people are getting headbutts. A lot of people are getting knocked out because it's so fast paced. You're getting those eight rounds and condensing it into three minutes.

So, yeah, one thing my coaches were saying is don't worry about giving the knockout. If it comes, it comes and you take it. If not, when you're around. So I won my round super clearly boxing from the outside, switching left, the switch variety and doing whatever worked for me. So it's a very fast pace fighting style, the team combat league and it's 24 rounds of action. I love it. All right. Well, good luck to you with that. Michael, I'd be remiss if I don't ask you before I let you go. I'm a big Nix fan.

You're an NBA guy. Can you tell me, what do you, what do you think? Do we have a chance? What are you feeling right now? Okay. See up one. Oh, what are you feeling? Yeah, I mean, I've Yeah, I think the Knicks have a chance, obviously, Indiana is playing well. But next definitely have a chance, right? Like they're playing well, I think, I think Jalen is, you know, fourth quarter Jalen has been, you know, he's been unbelievable. And I think that's what's going to be the, you know, I think that's what's going to be the carryover for them, right? I think they're very evenly

matched. But I think in crunch time, I think the Knicks have a guy who can get a bucket at any point in time. So yeah, I think they make it to the finals. And I think at OKC, I think OKC Knicks. Okay, and then who, and then who? Just for me, can you just say, can you just say the Knicks? I'll just say, I'll say the Knicks. Okay, I don't know if I believe you, if I'm being honest.

They look really good. They look really good. I'm a little worried about them, but we have to get by Indy. So we'll worry about that later This has been great. This has been great. I'm so I'm so excited for you. It's it's an amazing thing that you're doing May 29th I know how long you've been into combat sports and by the way, it's great to see your your daughter's journey in In martial arts as well. She's doing amazing. Look at her here I remember you sent me a clip of her when she was a lot, maybe two or three years ago, and it seems like she's doing really well and sticking with it, which is the key.

I have a young daughter as well, and she plays soccer, and every week she tells me she wants to quit. It looks like your daughter is loving it. Yeah, no, she loves it. I mean, you should see her now. I mean, she's getting, I think I went last practice and she, she arm barred somebody, um, she gave somebody a Kimora and, um, you got to get her, get her a rear naked, like all like three, three in a row.

And I was like, you know, the, she started to really, really understand. And my little guy read he's into it too. He's been into it since he was two. He's about to be four now. So he, he, he's into it too. Like his main focus is always try to get to Mount. So he's, he's aggressive and it's fun to be four now. So he he's into it too. Like his main focus is always trying to get to mount So he's he's aggressive and it's fun to watch, you know, I I love that You know, they love it and they look forward to doing it. They go two times a week

So, I mean they're they're in it. Are you are you rolling as well or just boxing? No, I'm just boss I'm not going right now tough on the ankles, right that could be tough on the ankles These the ankles right that could be tough on the ankles These the ankles. Yeah I'll get back to it at some point. All right. Well May 29th That is the next assignment. Good luck to you. Good luck to both of you. Appreciate you guys coming on and Yeah, I'm looking for a second round knockout. That's what I'm feeling no pressure anything like that I know it's tough with the headgear 16 on club, but that's what I'm feeling. I'll put it out there All right. I appreciate it.

There it is. Thanks guys. Giovanni, Michael Carter Williams. Appreciate you guys very much. There they are, May 29th, right here in New York City. He is crossing over from the hardwood to the squared circle. Yeah, that's right.

The hardwood to the squared circle. Love to see it. Guy's got nothing to prove. Had a great NBA career, great college career as well. Huge combat fan. Putting on the gloves. Making that walk. Testing himself. How could you not respect that? Love it. All right. Great stuff there. Great stuff from Money Moicano. My friends, in a matter of seconds, we're going to be joined by an individual that, like I said

at the top of the show, we've been talking about him on this program, tweeting about him, talking to others about him, others bringing him up. He has become one of the most interesting characters in pro wrestling today. And a lot of the work that he's been doing has been different in the sense that it's on his YouTube channel, it's on social media. He is really using all facets of media, not just the airtime that he is given on Monday Night Raw, on Netflix. He's taking matters into his own hands and as a result of this, like I said, what he's been doing, especially in the last two or so months, has been absolute theater. He shook the wrestling world moments after WrestleMania with his promo on the post show with the likes of Sam Roberts and Megan Morant and he really opened up a lot of eyes with that. But if you've been paying attention for the last few months, you will have noticed that Karrion Kross is doing some special things.

Once known as Killer Kross, he's now Karrion Kross in WWE. Let us say hello to the man himself who's revolutionizing the game, who's killing it. Ah, yes, there he is. The one and only Karrion Kross. Hello, my friend. How are you? How are you? It's great to see you.

Thank you for coming. Can we hug? Yeah, let's bring it in. Hello. Chuck, how are you today, guys? How's it going? Hey, what's up, man? Is that Dipperstein? What is he doing here? You work with this jabroni.

What's the deal with him? Yeah. What is he? He just did a run in on my show from Cheap Heat. Or is he trying to sign you? I mean, you tell me. He's loving this. Do you even work with this guy or is he just?

This is the first time I met him. I got to tell you, I kind of like him. Okay. I don't know who he is. I just know him from a podcast with Rosenberg. Well. He claims to represent people, but I was not expecting this. You kind of threw me for a loop here, but you're

known to throw some curve balls. That's what I do. Question for you. Yes. Okay. Have you ever hit a guy with a steel chair before? Uh, no. I bet you I could talk you into doing that.

To him? I mean, are you ready to take a steel chair shot? It'd be good for viewership. Yeah. I would love to do that. Maybe, I was just talking earlier before you came in. My dream is to be a heel manager. One day before I die, I need to have a family,

like the Heenan family. I need to have my own stable. This is my bucket list, so. I love it. The steel chair could come into play. Thank you for being here. This is my bucket list. So I love it. The steel chair could come into play. You got to do it. Thank you for being here. This is incredible. Thank you for coming in. I have to say the wrestlers impressed me so much.

You guys get it. Most people just be like, I'll do it on Zoom. You're like, no, if we're doing something, we're doing it in person. Connect. I appreciate that so much. And I appreciate everything that you've been doing as of late. Holy smokes. Thank you. What is life like? Last couple of months, just Thank you. What is life like? Last couple months, just start there. What is life like for you?

Crazy. You know, if I'm being real with you, which I think I should continue to be, because that seems to be resonating with people. You know, they give me AOP and they give me Paul Elring and I don't know them. I know Paul, I grew up watching him on TV. You know, I get to know these guys, really like

them and it's just the nature of our business. One minute you hear, the next you're not. You know that was a bit of a tough hit, frustrating. You know nothing you can do about it. You got to get present. You know you grieve the situation, you got to move forward and I just felt like there was a lot of touch and go with certain things going on. We go to you know on the way from there we go to WrestleMania in Las Vegas a lot of emotions everything happened the way it did things are crazy but like in a strange way I wouldn't change any of it because as a result of everything that's happened I would say over the last five years it's put me in a place now to have a relationship with the audience that you wouldn't be able to write or

fabricate you wouldn't be able to create this like what's happening right now is absolutely nuts you know so there's a few times especially over the last few years where it feels like the the audience the community gets behind someone, gets behind their cause, their story, and really does everything in their power to propel them to the top. We saw it with Daniel Bryan, saw it with Kofi Kingston. We've seen it with others as well, right? I feel like we're seeing it now with you. Do you feel that same thing?

They are now rallying behind you in many ways. We'll get to the merch in a moment, but it just feels like, and you acknowledged this on Twitter. I think it's actually your pin tweet where you're acknowledging this, that there's something happening. I think we have it, we'll show it here in a second for those that don't know what I'm talking about, that the community is for some reason

rallying around you and pushing you. Here it is, I'd be lying if I said I haven't felt a major shift in the way a lot of fans feel towards me over the last year, more so so recently just putting it out there that I see you and I appreciate you and I know they appreciate that why do you think it's happening all of a sudden it's I almost don't even want to say I kind of want them to speak on my behalf because sometimes it comes off condescending when you try to frame what's happening when it's about you but

I mean just speaking plainly to you, um, over the last, I don't know, 365 days backwards from today, the interactions that I'm having with people, the things that the audience doesn't see on TV, they're really different than the way they used to be. I always used to hear when I was, you know, meeting fans wherever I was, gym, airport, restaurant, you name it.

They were always talking about NXT, what I did in NXT. They wish we could go back to that, you know? And it's a difficult conversation to have with people. You know, you're not totally, your hands aren't totally on the wheel, you know? Um, but now the conversations have changed to, I love what you're currently doing. And we want to see more and more and more. And I just feel like something's happened where I'm understanding in a more comprehensive way what they want from me and what the company is looking for me and finding a common ground

between those two. That's what I feel like is happening and they want more and I want to give them more. What do you think they want from you? They being the people. I think they want to see me massacre people. I think they want to see what I used to do in the current format right now and I think they want more authenticity. I think there's like, authenticity. I think there's like, there's a starvation for authenticity that the audience wants right now. I know it's specifically from me, but I feel like it's, it's in general.

There's, there's something there, you know, people can feel like the difference between theatrics, which obviously are still appreciated. And then there's a difference between somebody being real. And that I think has always drawn people in like you think about the people who came off that felt really authentic, like some that jump out to me. Jerry Lawler, Andy Kaufman, Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts, Brian Pillman for a period. These, you know, weren't people that are, you know, household names

currently, but I remember them. These, you know, weren't people that are, you know, household names currently, but I remember them and, you know, here we are talking about them today. I'm not comparing myself to them, but I mean, whatever anyone's preconceived notion was about what they were watching in the program, when those guys came on, it was real. You know what I mean? It was there, that there was something, that intangible thing that you can't teach that they just had Correct me if I'm wrong though. You've always kind of had that vibe right, so why do you think it's it's clicking now I

Decided to be honest Was there a turning point when you said I need to start being honest. I need to start being more real more authentic Yeah, I think it probably happened when I When Miz and I were working together, I think it probably happened when Miz and I were working together. I think something clicked there, you know. I couldn't tell you specifically what it was but it just hit me. I don't even know what it specifically was. Something just

occurred to me. I kind of want to drop the act a little bit and start leaning into what I'm feeling like is being called for me. You know, you mentioned some of those names, I was perusing your YouTube channel, which is great by the way. And I want to speak to you about, uh, your documentary that you dropped not that long ago,

but there was one comment under the documentary that I thought really summed up your magic right now. And, and, and you mentioned the names and this person, so shout out to him mentioned the names we have the comment here I wanted to read to you crosses like a present-day Jake Roberts you don't know if he's your friend your enemy angry or happy healer face he's methodical aggressive cerebral is he being underutilized maybe that's the

part of the work I don't know but I love it keep it up all of it I thought that was phenomenal shout out to that guy Mike B 1618 and they say don't know, but I love it. Keep it up, all of it. I thought that was phenomenal. Shout out to that guy, MikeB1618. And they say don't read the comments, but the comments are all positive on your videos. It's like amazing. You're like the one YouTube presence that people are all supposed, it's a beautiful thing,

but I feel like that kind of hit it, right? I mean, yeah. I mean, again, I don't know. I'm a weird guy. Like I have a hard time taking compliments. I've always been that way. I feel like it keeps me accountable for my own work and just stay in the course, but I do appreciate it.

I saw the comment and that stuff, that's an indication to me that we're going in the right direction. So that's the course I wanna stay. You mentioned AOP, you mentioned Ellering. When you found out, February I think it was, that they were parting ways, did you think that that was going to be,

not a sign of things to come for you, but like leave you kind of hanging in the wind. You've got your own thing with your wife Scarlett, and some might say you're almost better, just the two of you, no knock on them, but it just has worked, and it has always worked, and people want it. But were you worried about what that was

going to mean for you? Not necessarily because I kind of have a process when something upsets me or I'm angry. I don't avoid it. I get into it. I grieve it and then I move on. I try to stay as present as possible. I don't think it's like a good thing to brood in a place that's not producing like what you

want for your life. So I just said to myself, what I say to myself, literally every week is I want to this week, no matter what I'm given, no matter what's going on, I'm going to try really, really hard to make a connection with the audience because they know they want to be connected. It was a strange thing for, for a time, uh, even

in this stretch, I wasn't on TV for a little bit. I think it may have been off the top of my head three or five months. I don't remember. I don't spend time thinking about that, but it was on live events. And there was no story going on on TV. And when we were coming out, we're doing what we call cold matches, you know? And when we were walking out, you know, I'm established as a bad guy, I just personally think I'm misunderstood. The crowd was cheering for us when we were walking out and I looked at my wife and I went, huh. Like there's been this underlying thing that again the television audience doesn't see where people have wanted to cheer for us, you know? And I think that's because

they're sick and disturbed like us. They want to, you know what I mean? They want to do it. And we've been giving them reasons not to, and I think we should stop doing that. I think I saw you say that, um, you were on main event in London, you had the, uh, the Chris Bay charity match and that was like not that long ago, right?

A couple of months ago or so that was their first matches of, of 2025. So why was it three, four months without a match to start the year? Were you injured? No, there was, there was, this is right before we got rolling with AOP and did final testament. Um, it's a story for another time.

I don't think there's enough time to tell the story. We've got all the time in the world. We're live. You want to get us in trouble? You want to get us? No, I don't want to get anyone in trouble. Let's get nuts! This is a shoot, brother. We can do whatever we want. If you want to tell it all good, if not... There was just a weird period where I think they were trying to figure out what the best way forward was. Okay.

That's the best way I can put it. Fair enough. It's the best way I could put it. But I mean, we've always been ready to go, man. Like, and we're hungry. Like the biggest misconception anyone can take from what I said, uh, on WrestleMania was that I'm disgruntled. I'm not, I'm just really, really, really hungry, man.

I'm really hungry. All of this is coming from a place of passion. And you know, it's for me, it's all about the grand scheme of things. Like people are paying to come watch the greatest show in the world. I want to be a reason on the show where they felt like they got every single cent, you know, worth of that. I want to be more than just an Easter egg. I want to be more than just a guy in the back ruining people's lives.

And I will admit I do enjoy ruining people's lives. There's definitely something wrong with me, but, um, only the internet can judge me. Mm-hmm. And I'm working my way up to WrestleMania. Um, when you found out that you weren't a part of the WrestleMania plans. Mm- plans, two day event in your adopted hometown of Las Vegas, big deal.

You had a solid match in, in Philly last year. So one would think you, you, you take a next step. What was your reaction? It's confused, very confused. But again, it's, it's not the type of thing that I think myself or anyone can like stew in. It's like, what, what do we have today on Monday? Maybe it's your cup of tea. Maybe it's not.

You have to try to make the best of that and, and try to hit a home run every, every week. I'm trying to hit a home run with whatever they give me, whether it's five seconds, whether it's a background shot, something, it was an opportunity to make somebody laugh when they're watching or hit a home run. Every every week I'm trying to hit a home run with whatever they give me. Whether it's five seconds, whether it's a background shot, something it was an opportunity to make somebody laugh when they're watching or make somebody really really angry. That's that's kind of like I just circle back

to that. I have to because I've seen people go nuts in this business. They'll drive themselves insane trying to theorize what's going on. You know all you can do is check in what do you need from me? What are you looking for in the show? And just try to give them that you know. all you can do is check in, what do you need from me? What are you looking for in the show? And just try to give them that, you know? So part of the brilliance is you don't just, you know, sit in the corner and cry about the fact that you're not on WrestleMania. You take matters into your own hands and you put

together this documentary and it's absolutely riveting. It's, it's some of the best stuff that any wrestler has done on their own, you know, not part of the machine, so to speak, because it really gave us insight into your mind. Here you are on the streets of Las Vegas, you're talking about your career,

you're talking about the state of your career. That idea, to do that, was that as a result of you not getting on Mania, or did you say, like I was always gonna do this, it just kind of, the subject kind of turned when things played out the way they did? I was always gonna do it. That was my plan. Wow.

That was my plan, like, right when I got hired by WWE in 2020. I said one day, this show will be in Las Vegas, and hopefully one day they hold a mania there. Because when I was still in Vegas living there, Vegas was still expanding, you know? I didn't know if the economy, you know, on a measurable metric could support a WrestleMania. Clearly it could. Yeah.

Um, but that was something I always wanted to do and kind of things just kind of serendipitously happened in a weird way. Like, I feel like I get messages from the universe to pay attention to, like, if I hear the same thing over and over and over from different people that don't know each other, I feel like I should be paying attention to that.

Um, Davin Tong hit me up and said that he wanted to produce something and I was like holy cow this is I was already gonna be doing that and I told him I go dude I don't know what this is gonna be by the end of it. I have absolutely no idea but we're going to create something for people to watch and I don't know how it's gonna make them feel but it's gonna be real and it's going to be authentic. And, um, I wanted it to walk a particular line that's not telling them how to feel or what to think. I just want to show them something that they can get lost in and enjoy.

And, um, the reception that it's had, I'm just happy with it. I'm happy people enjoyed watching it and they're getting something out of it. And, um, yeah, like that too, doing that kind of, that was more or less inspired by Smashing Machine which now you know Mark has his movie I got to reconnect with him at WrestleMania when we fought Bobby the Prophets and Brie I met him when I

was a kid and not that we were close friends but I reintroduced myself as an adult and I can't even tell you how many times I've watched smash machine like that. Yeah. The best. Um, and I, I just told him recently, like as a fan of his growing up, um, his bravery for putting his whole life out there, you know, all of the

good, the bad, the ugly that inspired me. And I went into a headspace where the things that I was going to do and say I wanted to inspire, like people in the same way he did. And it's not the same. I'm not saying my life is the same as his at all, but like to be so vulnerable, I think that's what brings people together, oddly enough.

It's not power plays. Power plays actually divide people, you know? Like Superman, you know? People can't connect with Superman until they see that he's in love and he has a weakness and you know, doesn't have a family, you know, he's a missing father figure, all that stuff. I think there's something there to all of that

and I didn't want to manufacture it. I just wanted it to be real and I was going to take it on the chin however people were going to feel about it. You're perfect for blood support. I'm a big fan of blood support. I love the fact that WWE guys are able to appear on it and, uh, and I hope that people don't view it as like the place where the guys

who aren't on mania are able to, to compete because there are only certain guys that can org and gals that, you know, Shayna Baszler was perfect. Uh, Natty Nighthart, like, and you are just perfect for it. And that was a part of the doc as well. So again, you took advantage of mania, being in Vegas, of doing other things.

If you're not gonna be on the big show, well, you're gonna make an impact in other ways. What was that experience like? And I'm getting to the martial arts background because you're perfect for this. But just to work that type of show, what Josh Barnett is doing I think is super fascinating right up my alley.

What did you think of it? I got the heads up from Regal. I can't remember how far out it was, but I was just over the moon, over the moon about it. My career changed with the first two that I did. The first one was with Harry Smith. The second one was with Nick Gage. I can't explain it, man.

Like all of these doors just started opening. It was a different fan base, the air of legitimacy that's around that. Josh kind of said it best, like you'll be exposed with what you're good at or what you're bad at. When you go there, it's a real dice roll. It's not just the type of thing you walk into and do if you don't have a background on that type

of stuff. Um, and the crowd keeps you accountable. It's, it's a really special event. And I just thought like that's perfect. Cause I had the documentary idea lined up before that happened and I was like, we're filming that for sure. Oh yeah.

Oh, the, the, the footage is tremendous. We were just showing some of it. So where are you night one? Night one, I am at the hotel and I am watching, uh, CM Punk, Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins absolutely kill it. Why aren't you there? Why aren't you at the stadium?

I was like in a state of avoidance, to be honest with you. It, it kind of killed me, you know, anytime I've ever, you know, I want to be there as often as I possibly can in any capacity, but man, sometimes when you see that full house and you're not a part of the show for all of us, it's not just me, I'm not

an isolated situation. It's really soul killing. Cause you want to be out there so badly in front of that crowd. And you know, with the lineup on the card, it's going to be a show. People are never going to forget who are there live and they're creating moments out there.

Maybe even, you know, for some people, it's a first time moment live. That's why a lot of us got into this, you know, it wasn't all about the high spots. It's about telling the stories and creating those moments and not being able to do that. I was just thought to myself, like it might be mentally better for me to watch it from here and,

and just study and appreciate it from a hotel. In Vegas too. Mm hmm. Where are you night two? So at the beginning of the day I'm at WB World signing autographs, meeting fans, doing the meet and greet stuff. I think either that day or the day before I did media locally for Fox which was cool. I always wanted to do local media for for Fox for like wrestling so that was kind of a just a cool you know thing to do. I get a text we need you at the building now. I just said. What time of day is this? Pre-show? This is like noon okay 1 p.m. and I was like oh boy I was like there's a lineup

of people here I can't get up and leave. So I just as politely and as respectfully as I could, I just sent back a text like, let me get through all these people. They were all waiting here in line for a very long time. I'm not, I can't please understand. They were cool with it, knocked out the line, went to work. Okay, and what did they need you for? What you saw in the AJ Logan match. OK.

And how did you feel about that? Honestly, I felt very grateful. I felt grateful to have any part of the show whatsoever at all. You can want the world. You can want it all, and you can go for it. But it's important not to lose the gratitude of even having the smallest part of something so big, you know? So, yeah.

There was some talking, there's always rumors and stuff that maybe you'd be Randy Orton's opponent. Did that ever get to you? Was that ever a thing? Was that ever on your radar? It was only ever something that was tracking online, like no one at any point ever said

you're in the running. Okay. Like that. And Randy's one of the greatest of all time. And I, as, as badly as I would want to be in the ring with him and I still do, I would never be so, I don't know, condescending as to go to them and be like, how about me?

Like they know who's available. Right. You know what I mean? And it's a special event and maybe they felt like it was random and whatever, but. Does it grab that brass ring mentality? Like felt like it was random and whatever, but. Does it grab that brass ring mentality? Like, Hey. For me, there always is.

Yeah. But I feel like there's also, there's a line of delusion, you know, and. But you're not delusional if you raise your hand for that spot. You're right. I think I'm being hard on myself. Yes.

Yeah. No, you're right. And a lot of people told me that, but I, I'm telling you the truth. I didn't. Okay. Maybe I should have. Do you the truth. I didn't. Okay. Maybe I should have. Do you ever second guess yourself in those moments?

No. You're not that guy. Nope. When you found out it was Joe who's doing great things, Joe Henry, TNA star, the internet is very much behind them. The fans are behind them. Um, did you think they made the right call?

Yes. Why? Well, for one, I'm very proud of Joe. Him and I aren't close, but I've known him for a very long time. And I know the grind that that guy's been through that people have not seen. He, in the form that he's in right now, has always been there. He's been ready to go in the capacity that he's in and people have stared a

hole right through the guy, like he doesn't even exist. And that's brutal. Like as a human being, when that's happening, for what they wanted on the show and the right opponent and for everything that that show needed, I think it was the right call. Selfishly, of course, I would have wanted to wrestle Randy. But if you see the look on people's faces

and you hear their reactions, they had a good time. And I'm not going to argue with that. I would have loved to have wrestled Randy at WrestleMania. But it is what it is. And I'm not going to, I'm not going to argue with that. I would have loved to have wrestled Randy at WrestleMania, but you know, it is what it is at the end of the day. It's their show that you want to be a part of, not the other way around. So you try your absolute best to demonstrate that you can be the guy for that.

And you just gotta, you just gotta find a way to cope and deal with the decisions that you know, you may find to be undesirable or the ones that you don't agree with. And you got to get your head in the game for the next round, you know, the next Monday, whatever that is. That's the way I've always looked at it. The amazing thing about night two, WrestleMania

41, that Sunday in Vegas, I think I'll remember at least in a, in a really positive way, two things, Joe Hendry's appearance, his official singles debut, if you will, he was on Royal Rumble and all that. And then your promo. Everyone had their say on should Rock been there, should Travis Scott do this, that, should Cena have won, all that.

But as far as the high points, if you will, on Monday, i felt like everyone was in a positive way talking about your promo and joe hendry your promo wasn't a part of wrestlemania it was part of the post show right with sam roberts and and megan you just said that at the beginning of all this that you feel like there's some sort of like misconception regarding it when i'm watching it and i've watched it like 10 times, it's pipe bomb-esque. It's CM Punk, and that's the highest of praise. It was riveting. It was incredible.

Because as you were saying, it felt like it was coming from the heart. You were referring to people by their real name. You were talking about Joe. You were talking about Logan. It felt to me like a guy who was frustrated with his spot and was lashing out. You dropped an F-b bomb, which is supremely

rare on any kind of WWE programming. Why do you feel like people have misconstrued what you were trying to say or where you're at? I don't think it's, I don't think it's a broad group of people that have a mis, you know, misconstrued it. It's a very small group of people that feel like,

you know, it falls under complaining. It's not complaining. It's using your voice and speaking up and saying, Hey, I'm here. I'm here. I want to be here. I want to give you the best of what I have, you know? Um, in general, I, I mean, I, I got a standing ovation when I, I won't drop names. I got a standing ovation when I saw everybody the following day.. I got a standing ovation when I saw everybody

the following day. Wow. Which felt awesome. And I had no idea that that was going to resonate the way it did with people. Um, a few people even came to me in tears, uh, saying, thank you for saying what you said. Uh, I, I was just being honest.

I had an open criteria that day and, um, I told them, I said, um, people are going to watch this. I have something to say and I have a feeling people are going to want to hear this. So I said it. You, you said you got a lot of love. Did you get any heat? Sort of, sort of. Yeah. Not everybody was thrilled about that.

Did you hear from Logan? No. Because I feel like if there was one person that you were kind of critiquing, it was him that he doesn't deserve the spot. I'll say this. I don't have a problem with Logan Paul. I think he's an amazing athlete and I think he's doing really good work.

And a lot of people will be pissed that I'm saying that, but it's true. I think he's an amazing athlete and I think he's doing really good work and a lot of people will be pissed that I'm saying that, but it's true. I don't want to BS around that. What I have a problem with is this idea within the system to reward the mainstream archetype like Logan with certain types of liberties, um, and privileges that could be delegated to the people that have pretty much dedicated their entire lives and are here full time. I struggle with that and I'm not the only one. I think it just needs to be said, like I have no

problem as a professional wrestler with anyone coming in and being on our show and doing anything just as long as I get to hit them with a steel chair as they walk in. If I can hit them with a steel chair as they walk in if I can hit them with the chair then they can come in and do whatever they want after that you know it's fine but in all seriousness like I we the collective the talent the wrestlers the performers we can go viral too I don't want there to be this idea, this dependency that other people from other lanes are the only ones that can do that.

We can too. And that's why I say like, it didn't come from really a disgruntled place. It came from a place of passion. I want to show people what they want to see. I know what they want to see. And I proved that. That was the whole point. You know, that's where, that's where that comes from.

And those are my thoughts on them. Like, you know, I'm that that was the whole point. You know, that's where, that's where that comes from and those are my thoughts on them. Like, you know, I really hope to God, Jay winds up cheating in that match with him because if that guy winds up winning the world title, I don't know what the hell's going to happen. He needs to do everything he possibly can and go

back to OG bloodline Jay. I'll tell you that right now. What's he like, you know, I had a Baron Corbin on the show and he was somewhat critical of his his demeanor backstage. What's your read on what he's like backstage? You know, I know there's there's there's a way to conduct yourself, right? Guys like The Undertaker have talked about the respect for the business, respect to others, shake everyone's hand, look everyone in the eye. What's your experience like with him? I have nothing negative to say in regards to that about him. He's always been very cool to me.

But, you know, most people are pretty cool to me. So, and I've seen them not be cool to other people. They don't want your smoke. Maybe, maybe. People give off a certain energy. I'm like very much like a respect first type person. Um, you know, Vegas truly to me, like is home, but I did grow up in New York and I think it's a culture thing.

Like you don't know who anybody is on the street and you grow up on those streets. So you'd be cool with everybody because if you're not going to be cool, then that means that you want a problem. And I, I don't know, I've never really been able to shake that. I'm still that way.

I want to be cool with everybody. If you give me a reason not to be, it's not going to be cool. I'm not going to be cool. I'm not going to be cool, then that means that you want a problem. And I, I don't know, I've never really been able to shake that. I'm still that way. I want to be cool with everybody. If you give me a reason not to be, it's not going to be good for you. So. What I love so much about that promo, it

wasn't on the broadcast. So you almost had to find it. Like, you know, everyone was reacting to what happened on the broadcast, but then slowly but surely they're like, Whoa, did you guys see on the post show, this thing happened there that like, you weren't sure what was going on or were we supposed to see it all?

And there's the moment where you stand up and, um, your wife says to you something to the effect of like, not here or not now. And you say like, they leaked my contract info online. Who are you talking about when you're saying that? Whoever did it, like that put me over the edge. Cause that was also happening. I think that happened online, like right around that, you know, shortly after AOP and

Ellering were gone, it was just like kind of one thing after another. So it was like very, I'm still pretty pissed about that. You feel like it was what, like a breach of trust? I don't know who did it. It's impossible to say. I, I have, I'm still pretty pissed about that. You feel like it was what, like a breach of trust? I don't know who did it. It's impossible to say.

I have, I have no idea, you know, but I was kind of out of my mind at that moment. Really? It's kind of hard to put myself. Why did it bother you so much? It's just privacy. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like I just, who the hell is supposed to know about that? You know what I mean? Like stuff gets leaked all the time. So. But then since then, here's the avalanche. And now all of a sudden people are coming up to you and saying like, where can I get your shirt? Where can I get your merch? It's only online. I don't want it online. I want to buy it at the arena. I want to support you. And finally they, they put the shirt out. Here it is.

Yep. String them up, knock them down. And as of right now, based on the tweets that I've seen, it's number one. I don't have the metrics on me right now, but I know it's doing pretty good. That's crazy. And that's why, dude, I'll go back and say like,

I wouldn't change any of it. All of these things I just told you, all my gripes and grievances and whatnot, and like where I'm coming from, I wouldn't change any of it because what's happening right now is completely organic. I wouldn't change any of it. And it's just now is completely organic. I wouldn't change any of it. And it's just a weird thing and I always go back

to this and maybe it's like growing up doing martial arts and stuff, like you can't grow without suffering. It's like a really ugly double edged sword in life. You have to go through things to know and figure out who you are and where you stand and who you're going to develop into. And there's no point in going into all of it you know now but I'm glad that I

went through it because coming through to this side the connection that I have with the audience right now is insane and I know it's just gonna get bigger and I know it's gonna get better like I just I feel it and even with the shirt like I'm involved with the graphics designs and all that with the shirts, what that shirt was originally supposed to represent. Now it represents something even bigger, which is, which is insane. Like that's that, that is the shirt from the promo now for people. And it represents something entirely different, you know, when they wear it,

when they're people telling me like, when they wear that, they're like embodying, you know, what was said, that authenticity. That's like, that's like my Superman S now. Yeah. With the strings, you know, you wouldn't have been able to construct that that's happening. It's taking on a life of its own.

So. Are the powers that be in your opinion, paying attention to all of this? Do you feel like this is, this is translating into the success that you want, which is big matches, big opportunities, air time, all that and more? All I can say is I hope so. I don't think you cannot ignore the crowd, whether it's online or it's live audience.

I have a feeling that some people thought maybe it was going to go away, it was going to die down, it was a momentary thing, but it's not. It's getting louder. I heard It was going to die down. It was a momentary thing, but it's not, it's getting louder, you know, and it's. I heard the pop main event pop. That's a baby face pop. Yup. You're a good guy now, whether you like it or not. What about the irony of me turning people?

Right. Now the crowd is turning me. What about that? I, it's so crazy when it happens. It is crazy. I've never turned to anybody in my life, by the way, I'm an absolute saint, absolute saint. It's all of their own volitions, all a giant

series of coincidences. I just wanted to put that out there as a public statement. What are you thinking in your mind? Like when you hear this last pop that you got on main event and, and, and they're treating you like a baby face star, they're a guy. Ah, man, I, all I can tell you is it feels good. It feels, I feel like, I feel like people are finally seeing me.

I know that they've been seeing me all this time, but I feel like they're seeing me when I hear that I know that something is there. And it's, it's becoming undeniable, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, felt really good. And every night when I go out there, I have no idea what's going to be coming at me. I have a guess and this is what I guess would happen, but it feels really good.

This is what every wrestler dreams of, right? To have this connection with the audience, right? Yup. Whether it's like vociferously boo you because they're supposed to boo you or connect with you in a way where like, they feel like you represent them and now they want to prop boo you or connect with you in a way where like they feel like you represent them and now they want to propel you to the top like they view

your success is their success. That's what I sort of feel like is happening here. And it seems like the impression that I'm getting is they want you to win money in the bank and they want that to be the thing that gets you into the main event slot and like to finally see you. We've seen this with other guys. Biggie wins the money in the bank, he then becomes champion, happened to live Morgan recently and on and on it goes. Are you feeling the same way? Yes. Yes, okay. It's wild.

Yeah. It's absolutely nuts, you know. So many people try to throw things out there to like sell an idea to the audience or kind of like in a very coy way bait them. I haven't been doing any of that. This is all coming to me. And I, it's awesome to be to be chosen, you know what I mean, by them. Yeah. I mean what else can I say? It's nuts. Will you get a chance to compete for that briefcase? I really hope so and I'm ready. It's right over there by the way. Do you see it? Don't tell me that.

It's not the real one though, unfortunately, but it would be nice. We can, we can manifest this. We can put this into existence. Oh boy. That's the way absolutely nothing happens. Yes. That's the big, that's the big rib.

Oh, look at this shot. By the way, it looks good on you. You know, green and gold. Yeah. What do you think? That's what they're calling for. Yeah. I see it.

I see it every day. Yes. Imagine that. What a pop that would be. All the years, the trials, the tribulations, the NXT, the debut that didn't go the way you wanted the release, working your way back into, like, there's a lot there and people have gone

on this ride and it hasn't been over like 15, 20 years. A lot of it has happened in the last five years. Yeah. Um, and, and I think part of the reason is, tell me if you feel otherwise, I think people feel like you have been wronged for, for one reason or another and they want to see you get your due.

I won't deny that, which is crazy. It's crazy because it's, I can feel any particular way about anything going on in my life and not talk about it. And then it's as if it doesn't exist to people, right? That's like all of us. The fact that people are feeling that way and saying that and talking about it without me having to say it, that's what I mean

when I say like, I feel like I'm being seen. Like, I don't know if the right word is like feeling validated in the way I'm feeling, you know, sometimes you think, sometimes you think you're crazy, you know, you're thinking of all the stuff, you're looking at what's going on, you're just like, I'm really trying man to make this click. And there are things that are not there that I'm trying to insert and I'm not able to. And then are things that are not there that I'm trying to insert.

And I'm not able to. And then this thing comes in from the audience and just wipes all of it off, like off the table. Like it's now their thing. And they pick you, they choose you, they want to run with you. It's so hard to put into words. It's, but it's happening.

How do you keep this faith? I saw in the documentary, there's a line in there which is great about, you know, stop looking at other people's lawns, the grass isn't greener, worry about your own grass, water your own grass, fertilize your own grass. It's a great mentality. I mean, a lot of the things that you say about loyalty,

about the way you live your life really resonates with me, but how do you keep this faith when you see other people who you know for one reason or another aren't as talented as you or maybe didn't put in the time or whatever getting opportunities and you're not. How have you not been broken at this point? Because I would understand if you would have been like, to hell with all of this, let me go do something else, let me just not have to worry about this. How have you been able to withstand all of it? I had a really good relationship with my grandfather, Robert, uh, who's no longer, uh,

here with us, uh, served in the army, um, in the house, he ran a really tight ship and that was just his way of thinking with everything. And it was kind of embedded into my family. And it's not just a wrestling ideology or philosophy, it's just kind of the way I approach things in life. And look, here's the, the scary reality. You can live that way.

It might not produce the result you want, but at the end of the day, you have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and you have to be able to tell yourself, did I exhaust all options? Like, did I max everything out to try to yourself in the mirror and you have to be able to tell yourself, did I exhaust all options? Like, did I max everything out to try to produce this thing that I really want to happen? Did I do that?

And I feel comfortable knowing at the end of every day, if it didn't produce the outcome, I literally tried everything and I'm going to stay that course. And I've always stayed that course my entire life. As long as that loyalty is reciprocated, I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying and I'm fighting all the way through. And it's not even just about what I want.

Now more than ever I'm feeling support from not just friends and family and peers, but it's people from all over the world. I get analytics and metrics from those videos and socials and stuff. There's people, I can see it. I can see it. There's people all over the world in every country that are supporting all of this. And it's like, I don't want to let those people down either. You can call whatever you

want about what we do a work. That seems to be, man, I never thought I'd be frustrated about this, but that seems to be more of a prevalent thing that's happening now where people are coming out and talking about what's a work and this and that. Like I never been bothered if somebody said what I did was fake because they don't know what I do. If they're actually going to tell me what I do is fake, they don't understand the dynamics

of what it is that I'm doing, go tell somebody who's had a broken neck that what they're doing is fake and it's a work. Oh, it's just a work. This is the only business in the world that's not just a business if you really think about it. People have died doing this. And so like, if people are going to show up in whatever way they can, whether it's online or

live, and they're going to support me to go in the direction that I'm going in, it's, it's even more than just about what I want. I don't want to let these people down. And that's just how I structure it all. So let's go back to the beginning. Excuse me. Um, you grew up in Rockland County.

Mm hmm. Uh, you spent like 17 or so years in Toronto. Yep. Why did you leave New York to go to Toronto and how old were you when you left? Uh, 12th. And then I was up in, up in Toronto, just my family and what they do for a living.

Basically took them up there. Which was what? Uh, my mother was in publishing at the time. And so publishing. Yeah. It was like books. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, like Harper Collins and oh god I'm gonna forget all this now it's been so long. All of like the type of paperback publishing's now gone sort of digital and electronic so the publishing's really changed but we wound up moving up there for you know a variety of different reasons that being pretty much the main one. And what about Ted Concepcion?

My father. What a legend. This guy went up against Phil Barone. Is this accurate? Dude. Your dad was a fighter. Yeah. Tough man.

Yeah. My father, uh, yeah, my father competed in a tough man a little bit. Um, this is the first time I think I've publicly said this, although a lot of people know it, but my father, uh, trained Laura Serrano and China. China was almost about the box. China. I met her when I was a kid. Yeah. Come on. I swear to God.

I trained her in what? Pro wrestling or boxing? Okay. Wow. There was a time where she wanted to box. This is pre WWE. Yeah. This is, I was a kid. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Um, uh, out in Vegas actually. Um, but yeah, she, I think she got a huge offer from new Japan and to go fight Chono or something. So she dipped off the boxing and then went to, to go, uh, to go back to wrestling.

Okay. It's too lucrative. And that was her first passion. She loved that. But yeah, my father. Did he box professionally? I think he, honestly, I think he won a silver medal in the Pan Am games of either 89 or 91 in boxing and maybe won a gold for Puerto Rico.

Okay. I should really get the timeline and the dates, right? I don't remember. It's not something we regularly talk about, but he was always involved with the amateur wrestling and boxing. Um, at the time he would train, uh, with Chuck Liddell and Frank Meir. He's very close at Rico Rodriguez. Um, I think he's the godfather of one of Rico's kids. So this is in Vegas now. would train with Chuck Liddell and Frank Meir. He's very close to Rico Rodriguez. Yeah.

Um, I think he's the godfather of one of Rico's kids. Wow. Um, so this is in Vegas now. This is when you guys now move from Toronto to Vegas. How old are you when he's doing all of this? Uh, I was probably between 12 and throughout my early twenties. And are you hanging out with them too? Are you training with them?

I was around them all the time and I was around Phil and my father and Phil used to spar but they never fought pro. That's a story Phil used to tell to break my father's balls. Okay, okay. Yeah, Phil's thing would he would tell a story that never happened just to see how people would react and for the people who knew that he was lying he would just wink them and smile and leave the room. Okay, okay. So you'll never really know what the hell unless you like knew Phil that was like his sense of humor he do shit like that all the time so so your training are you starting to think at this point you want to do this for a living martial arts mixed martial arts it's starting to grow

starting to be more popular always wanted to wrestle I was a skinny bone rack and when you say wrestled you mean pro wrestling? Pro wrestling, yeah. Okay, yeah. You were a big fan growing up. Oh yeah. Who were some of your guys? Pfft. I mean all the guys I mentioned earlier for sure. People always answer this like it's a, like a big political play. Like they're trying to get an endorsement.

Like they'll name drop a specific guy and hopefully they get the endorsement and then they do all those moves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not like that. Like I really actually did like so many people. Like I liked all those guys. I was Oh yeah. I'm not like that. Like I really actually did like so many people. Like I, I liked all those guys. I was a huge diesel fan when I was a kid, got the shirt and the glove. I was in the audience at MSG. Or ha ha.

I love it. Love it. All that stuff. And when I grew up and I started to understand the mechanics of amateur wrestling and judo and jujitsu guys like Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar were huge. You know, Taz was another one.

Oh my God. Like, because I could see there was a difference in the ring work versus some of the other stuff that's more like Western pro wrestling. Yeah. But the technicians were always my favorite. And so you start to compete in martial arts

and then decide like, Hey, I could go train in Vegas. I believe you trained at Vandalise syllabus gym. I did. Syndicate. Like these are, these are the stops that get you to the big show.

Yeah. And how long were you there for? Uh, about two or three years. Wow. Yeah. So who are you sparring with any guys who ended up in the UFC? Yeah.

Um, at Vanderlei's when we had him, uh, junior dos Santos, who was a pleasure to spar with, cause he could kill everybody in the room at that time. Holy crap. Even still now. Yeah. You know, he would wind up, he would, he would take

like sometimes in a round, he would take like a minute to two minutes to set up his upper cut and sometimes I didn't see it coming because master level, right? Yeah. And when he'd throw it, he'd throw it like halfway and we just had a laugh. It was like, oh, almost got flashed. Like you see, you know, a train coming that year. The doom got hit with that uppercut yeah yeah that was terrifying back then who else was there for Bricio Ver Doom over its syndicate Khalil Rowntree was there Wow he was just John Wood yes okay I went to he would have like the pro classes

that go in in the morning all the guys that wanted to fight pro they'd go in and we move around with them So did you have any fights? No. Why not? Honestly before I moved to Las Vegas when I was in Toronto I took these courses to become a family mediator. It was like a professional. With your mom? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So when we started. Why would you do that? She thought because I was a good listener and a good speaker and I was good at communicating that that it would be like a good job to help people. And plus, at the time I was bouncing and I think she knew I was taking bare knuckle fights,

but it was something we weren't talking about. So you were taking fights? Yeah, but they mean I have to be super clear with this. The bare knuckle fights were not pro fights and like these guys sucked. And thank God. Underground things? Kind of, yeah. I was on the native reserve.

Okay. And thank God they sucked because I was not, yeah. It was on the native reserve. Okay. And thank God they suck because I was not as good as I thought I was. Yeah. And like I even told Sarah, like, it's a miracle that something really, really, really bad didn't happen because I saw people get smoked. Wow.

Like all the time. And a lot of the fights ended when guys like broke their teeth. Like a thing that we started doing was like, we should start just trying to break their teeth because then when they see them spit their teeth out, they quit and we could get paid faster. That's a whole other, like it was insane.

But she, I think was trying to politely steer me away from that. And when I took those classes, you know, you're reading case studies about people and you're learning how to communicate. And then you're learning how to mediate between two people that have some sort of issue in the family, whatever it be, maybe trauma or substance abuse or something.

And I started reading those and I was like, read something about this guy, read something about this woman. I was like, man, I have some of these tendencies and I just knew that I had to work on them. And once I started to work through unidentified traumas that I didn't even realize that I had, I didn't want to fight anymore. Like I think not everyone's motivated like that, but just speaking honestly, and I feel like I can do that because I'm over it and through it. At that time of my life, I was engaging in violence

at that level because I think I was trying to work out of something and, and engaging in violence was not working me out of it. It was sort of like a bandaid. And so I just, I decided to ignore that and still go to Vegas anyways. And like, I, I enjoyed some days training like around pros, but I knew like the first month, I

was like, this is not what I want to do for a living. And then I was just stubborn. And I was like, maybe I'm in a bad mood. And then when it lasted six or seven or eight months, I was like, I don't think I could be in a bad mood that long. This is not really what I want to do. And there was that pro wrestling school down the street, Fsw. And I was like, I've always wanted to do

this. And I, I'm, I feel like I'm filled out now and being big is not the biggest thing but when you're not in the business some people are constantly telling you that you're not big enough to be in the business it gets in your head as a young man right so then I went and I fell in love with it so Roy Nelson too was that syndicate he was wonderful to spar with yes he would teach me really good setups for overhands he had a really nasty right overhand probably probably still does. Legend.

Yeah. I mean, he's knocked a lot of people out. Could I ask what were you trying to sort of battle? What was the trauma that you were dealing with? When I was a kid, my parents split. Okay. And so when something like that happens to a kid, there's all different types of like things

that, you know, happen to somebody where they don't necessarily know how to identify like real lanes of, uh, certainty, you know, I feel like that's like a big, that's a big trigger for people in general, people who feel the need to have a certain level of certainty that can't find it. That winds up manifesting in different

directions, um, for manifesting in different directions, um, for behavioral patterns and, and, and personality, you know, issues and stuff like that. And once I was able to kind of work through that, like I chilled out like immensely. Were you an angry kid as a result? And how old were you when they, when they split? I think I was maybe five or six.

Oh, wow. So you were young. Five or six, maybe seven. So when it, when it actually happens, are you even aware of what's going on? Okay. So it only hits you later. When you grow up, it hits you in levels. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. The things that you saw and you heard as a kid, they hit you differently as you grow up. I mean, that becomes something else and everybody has to find a way to address those, you know, or else they, you know, they, it's like living with a monster. You know what I mean?

It's like you, you need to learn to know what that is. A lot of people put that thing in the back seat and then when ship pops off in life, that climbs up to the front and it almost feels good to give it the wheel. Wow. So, worked through it though. And I just, I just started asking myself honestly what like forget everybody else and everything going on. What did I want to do? Like what I want to do? I

have you know I was working the nightclubs in Las Vegas and good job right? So good. Yeah. So good. Lots of contacts, lots of networking, fun if you don't have any bad habits and I didn't. So I had a good time. Like when you say bad habits, there's gambling and drinking and drugs. And then I weren't into any of that. We're just, you just see people's lives completely spiral out. Right.

Doing all that type of stuff. And it's like, why even dabble on that? If you see what the end of the road looks like. Sure. That was my, my take on it, not judging, but. So at some point you realize, all right, you love pro wrestling. This is the spot for you.

You're going to go down this path. Do you notice right away the difference? Like you, do you realize right away? Yeah. Do it right away. As soon as I got into the ring, started walking around and you feel the canvas is very different from, you know what I mean?

Like any other ring you've been in and you start bumping, you start learning psychology. Then you start going to the local shows. You're like, oh my God, like I can't believe I waited this long. Wow. I can't believe it. What year is this? That was 2014, I think. Okay, so you've been at this for 11 or so years, which puts into perspective, you know, that's a long-ass time to be fighting and scratching and up, down, you know what I mean? That's, that's a journey right there. Um, what's the big break? Where do you, how do you go from like the guy

who's training at, at a school in Las Vegas to now getting gigs? Like how does, how does one actually take that leap? Two things happened at the same time. Um, blood sport versus Harry Smith. Josh booking me for that. You're Killer Cross at this point. Yep.

Who gave you that? I still am. I guess you are. The audience gave it to me. I was wrestling as Kevin Cross for a long time. And then people just started chanting, Cross is going to kill you, every time I came out.

And then people started chanting Killer Cross. And for a while I was like, I was asking people I worked with, I was like, you think I should go with that? And they were like, they're never going to put that name on TV. And I was like, I was asking people I worked with, I was like, you think I should go with that? And they were like, they're never going to put that name on TV. And I was like, yeah, but I'm not on TV and it's following me everywhere.

Yeah. And so eventually I just leaned into it. The crowd gave it to me. Really? It was funny. That was like, I had, that wasn't the first time I had the nickname killer. Like when I was a teenager, when I was in the

boxing gym, they started calling me killer. And then when, when the owner's wife came around, he didn't ever really like want to alarm her. So they changed it to HK like hunter killer. So it was HK, but, um, yeah, that's kind of like how that happened. And, um, when I wrestled Harry on blood sport,

uh, uh, gentlemen by the name of Canyon Seaman love him to death. He used to be like, um, the talent guy for WWE. He came down and talked to me. I had a correspondence with him for years. He said, I think now is the time and Regal was there too. I think I got his blessing that day as well. And then shortly after that, I wrestled Moxley and John told me backstage. I've never told that any, I've never told everybody everything

he said because it was a private conversation, but I don't think he minds to this day that he told me he was like, you know, you can wrestle and go wherever you want, but I really think, I really think you'd be, you know, a really good fit for WWE, but do whatever you want, go wherever you want. And he encouraged me to call Hunter and I did. That's so crazy. It is crazy.

What an assist from him. I know. You hardly knew him. Hardly know him. He had just left the company, right? Yep. So he could left the company, right? Yep. So he could have been like, tell these guys,

why would I serve a young stud to them? Yep. Did you ever ask him later why he hardly knew you? I never asked him why I've just always said, thank you. I probably thank John like 50 times to the point where he's sick of it. You know, him and Renee.

Do you call up, do you call up Paul, Triple H? Do you call him up and just say, Hey, uh, I got your number. Like how do you even make that? I sent them a text just letting them know how I got his number and who I was. And I was like, John, this is awkward in, in so many different areas. The way he sees, he was like, no, no, just, just call him. And you go across call him. And I was like, what do you mean I'm killer cross? What are you talking about? He's like, just call him. You're a call him. And I was like, what do you mean I'm Killer Cross? What are you talking about?

He's like, just call him, you're Killer Cross, they should want you. It's just like the way he says, the way he is. So I sent him a text, I let him know who I was or where I got his number from, and I was like, John, I gotta tell him I got your number. He's like, yeah, tell him, yeah, tell him. Wow.

The way he is. And then we scheduled a phone call, I think, I don't know, maybe by the end of the week. Did he know who you were? Yeah. He was aware of what you were doing? Yep. And does he say right away like, come on down?

Pretty much. Wow. That's long and short of it, yeah. And at the time is he running NXT? Yes. Okay. So you're one of his guys? Yep. He circled me back to Canyon who I was already on his radar. So just those things back to back and I had

their correspondence with Canyon for years. So, you know, like the vetting process essentially had already taken place. So NXT, I mean, you're killing it. You're a two time champion, all that stuff. I remember exactly where I was. Um, it's the pandemic. It's, it's, it's 2021.

Maybe that's like one of the first shows where the crowds are allowed back into the arena and whatnot. I was watching with my boys who at the time were huge wrestling fans and you debut against Jeff Hardy, I think it was right. And, um, I'm like, oh, they didn't really watch NXT. I mean, I was watching and following everything.

I'm like, this guy is incredible. He's a killer. He's got such, and then I remember why, you know, I don't read everything. I don't and following everything. I'm like, this guy is incredible. He's a killer. He's got such, and then I remember why, you know, I don't read everything. I don't listen to everything. I just kind of like to be a fan for the most part. And I'm like, wait a second. I know his wife is with him.

Where's his wife and why, why does it look a little bit different? And then you lose your debut. And I'm like, well, this seems weird. All of that. Yeah. When, when you took that all in the aftermath of all of that, you don't have your wife with you.

You don't look the same. The music's not the same. You lose your debut, which is super weird. You were just a champ. You were killing it. You were pegged as one of the guys. Yep. How do you handle that?

It was rough. Um, I've probably played it down in other interviews that I've done, but since we're so far away from it and I told you, I process things. And then I just, I just tell you the truth. When I was going in there and that was happening, I don't want to say who I called because again, it's a private conversation, but I called somebody and I said, this all feels really wrong. This all feels messed up and it feels like they're trying to kill my relationship and connection and my equity that I've built up

with the audience. That's what it feels like to me. Tell me that I'm wrong. Person said, I can't. Wow. I said, okay. I said, I'm a consummate professional. I'm gonna do whatever it is that you guys are telling me to do. That's the deal.

That's what you sign up for. I said, what do you want me to do? And that person said, do business and let's figure it out on the other side. So I did business and you know, very strange day. Um, why wasn't your wife with you at the beginning? So someone who's no longer with the company had asked her to get in the ring, uh, and move around on like a dark match when we were still, uh, in lockdowns, you know, when we were doing shows where nobody was there.

She got out of the ring relatively quickly and wound up getting injured. Um, and so she was in post recovery of that. But I was also told, uh, one minute that we were going to be together. And then I was told the next that we weren't. And then I was also told that she was going to be brought up to main roster and not to worry about it just to get on TV and she'll join after but I was entirely opposed in the beginning to going out there without her because I don't know just out of like human loyalty like we're you know we have an act together

you know I don't want her to feel a particular way about you know me going up but we talked about it and she understood. She was just like, this is for us, it's for our household. I'll catch up when I get the green light to come back. We were just under an assumption that we were going to be grouped back together and then we were told we weren't. That time was all very weird. But I will say, those people I was dealing with at the time, just to reiterate it, they're

not with the company anymore. There was a sentiment that they were trying to kill kill off NXT. You think you represented that? I think to them, I did for sure. Okay. And that's just me saying, I think that's the way I feel. Right. It's, you know, there's a level of, you know,

I can't tell you for sure. I could just tell you how I felt and I could tell you how everybody else felt. You know, it was a very, very weird time. Very weird. And at the time, like, uh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't tell you for sure. I could just tell you how I felt and I could tell you how everybody else felt you know, it was a very very weird time very weird and at the time like You know like Hunter had his health issue. Yeah I don't want to call him for literally anything other than just to say are you okay?

Everyone was like you need to call honor. You need to talk to me He's gonna fix this I was like you think he's thinking about high spots right now and gives a shit about any of this? Right. The guy almost died. I'm not calling him about any of this. I will figure it out. And if I don't, I'll live. And that's, you know, like that's how I dealt with it. I don't want to lean different animal, you know It was just something I had to explore and and do my best to come out of it in one piece on the other side Was there any point in that first run where you were happy where you felt like? Okay, I belong I have a spot here. They get me this is gonna turn around. Was there any point in that stretch? I know it wasn't very long, right? It was what less than a year? Yeah, by the time you made it to the main roster and and by the time you parted ways no there

That never happened. I kind of knew what road I was on it was very evident and the people I was even working with the performing of were like They knew it was pretty evident too, but they just I don't know we were kind of all in shock Yeah, we're all in shock because like there's been people in the company for a long time who? Have seen things like that happen happen but not quite to that level. No because you were on fire right? I mean you don't need me to tell you like you you you were you came across like a killer you were booked like a killer you were you had it all the look the shaved head I mean everything. I think as an

aside I think your your your wife is someone who needs more love underutilized, like just for that role doesn't exist anymore. Right. It used to exist in the nineties and eighties, the, the female manager valet, whatever, whatever you want to call that person, sensational Sherry, uh, Sable, Sunny, there's, there's a ton of them.

And, uh, she's pretty much correct me if I'm wrong, the only one. Pretty much. Yeah. At least in WWE. Yep. I know there are, there are some in other me if I'm wrong, the only one. Pretty much. Yeah. At least in WWE. Yep. I know there are, there are some in other organizations and I feel like she needs a

little bit more attention, dare I say underutilized as well. I, uh, I couldn't disagree with what you're saying. No, I know. I know you. I couldn't disagree. She studies all those people, by the way

that you mentioned, she was a big Sherry fan. I can see that. I can see that. She's tried to, without completely cosplaying as Sher that. She's tried to without completely cosplaying as Sherry, she's tried to give nods to Sherry over time. So just in outfits and such when she goes when she goes really really big with stuff there was one time she did something with face paint where she did tik-tok across her head in NXT for a show she was watching a lot of Sherry at that time. Oh yes and of course

I'd be remiss if I don't mention Miss Elizabeth. Oh yeah. Who's maybe the go- completely different character, but there was an era where we had so many more of those. Um, so where were you when you got the call that they were parting ways? Uh, I was in the car. I was dropping, uh, my wife off at the

airport to fly home and I was actually in New York. I was visiting, uh, someone in my family who was like very ill. Okay. So. What a time. Blindsided or did you see it coming? Well I always saw it coming to be honest with you.

I felt it coming. I felt like it, I'm just telling you, I felt like it was, there was a deliberate course to drive me and steer me in that direction to just kind of like, what it felt like was they wanted to just completely ice out all equity that I had in the audience and especially to working as a bad guy you're telling the people not to like you and then you know they already kind of don't like you and then you get

released and you know you haven't really done anything and there's nothing really going on it really devalues you in theory. But what wound up happening was the, the audience is very smart in today's day and age. They can read show format when they're watching the show and they knew what was going on. And I didn't, I didn't know if they really knew,

but I found out when I went back to the Indies, everybody showed up in droves and told us we know exactly what happened to you without me even having to say a word. Wow. It didn't work out the way it felt like, you know, things were meant to work out. Were you relieved when you got the call? Big time. Yeah.

I just, and the reason for that is, man, like, I really just want to put out my best work. Yeah. I really, really do. And not every segment that's going to be delegated to a performer is going to have the ceiling on it as high so you can give out, you know, you can do your best work. Sometimes, you know, the ceiling is somewhat low because as a show format, it needs to peak in other areas near the end. Like imagine you're watching Seinfeld.

You Seinfeld fan? My favorite show. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So imagine all of the best jokes are up front in the show and then it peaks off on the end. People forget it's a show, right? So, but like, the place where my best work is going to come out is probably on the back end of the show and if you're not on the back end and all people see

you doing is bunting the ball for so long, they think that you're not able to do more than that. Right. And that man for all of us hurts the most. It hurts worse than the bumps. When people forget what you can do or have never seen what you can do and think that you can't. And then you wonder the people that you're working around, if they think that way too.

You know, it's, that's, I think the hardest thing for a professional wrestler is to manage, is to like, you know, I have home runs in me, right? Can I swing at the ball today? No. You know, we're going to need you to, you know, bunt it and walk to first. Yeah. But you, you're on the team and that's what you signed up for. So you, you got to do it. As an aside, I never expected Karen cross to be a Seinfeld fan. I thought you'd be, I thought you'd mention like some sort of like dark, you know,

sci-fi black mirror. Yeah. You didn't strike me as a type, but I love it. New York guy makes sense. Um, so that relief that probably translates into a great time when you go back to the Indies, right?

The shackles are off. You're back to yourself. You can do what you want. You could go long if you want. Right. Like, I mean, like you had it all. Yep. Yep.

No times, main event, you can be out there as long as you want, listen to the crowd, life is good. Yes. So why go back? I love WWE. I never, dude, I never, with all of that, that happened, I never looked at the company as this systemically evil thing. There was an issue with one or two people that

they took up with me. At least it felt that way that had nothing to do with me in my opinion. If you can read between the lines. I, I, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't at least ask who these people were. You could tell me to go F myself, but. Well, my grandmother and somebody else who

worked for asked me to stop saying the F words. Okay. Well, that's why I said F and not, yes, you did say the F word on WWE television. Yeah. That's when they, that was it. Okay. That was the last straw.

Yes. If you're going to go out like that, I mean, that's a good time to do it. Yeah. Fair enough. But it's, I had such an amazing experience with the company overall. Like there was like a 0.5% of the time that

was really damning. The rest of it was incredible. It was incredible. And I also trust Triple H. I trust him. Did he call you? Yes. Yeah, he did.

Uh, I think he called me on my birthday. Wow. Just to say happy birthday. And he said, we should talk soon. Wow. Yeah. You know what that means, right? I knew exactly what it meant and I was scared

out of my mind. Why? Because I had established, um, sort of like a, Yeah. You know what that means, right? I knew exactly what it meant and I was scared out of my mind. Why? Because I had established, um, sort of like a, not necessarily like a new identity, but like I had, I had my whole year booked out and I kind of like was in a different groove of trying to exist in professional wrestling without the assistance of anything else.

It's very different when you're in the machine and out of the machine. And, um, I knew I could trust him. I felt like he knew he could trust me. And that's not something that I ever want to mess with. That's really imperative. Like in wrestling in general, you're giving people trust on a weekly basis.

Um, if trust is not there, whether it's in the ring or out of the ring, things don't If trust is not there, whether it's in the ring or out of the ring, things don't happen. So just based on him, you know, basically having the sales of the ship, I was like, we're going back. You were, you were talking, I think at the time about doing a film where you also

talking to Cody Rhodes about maybe going to AEW, right? You told all of them unavailable. The communication, uh, just organically fell off with Cody and I at the time. And in the process of communicating with him when he was there, uh, Hunter had called me and I was like, we're turning right.

We're going, you know, next lane, boom. So. When he called you, was it you and your wife? Yeah. I put it on speaker. Yep. No, meaning like you wouldn't have gone if she wasn't going with you, right? Hmm.

I would have been a conversation her and I would have had to have had, but the idea was for us to always go back. Okay. Um, if she wanted to be a mother and she had to, no choice, but to not go and she told me to go to WWI would for sure. Okay. But I wanted her to have the experience of being able to go up to main roster and say, I wasn't just an NXT superstar. I was a WWE superstar. I wanted her to have that, you know? And, you know, just speaking truthfully, like

know, and you know, just speaking truthfully, like that was rough at the time when I, when I was on raw, even when things were horrible and she wasn't there, she was sitting at home and she had a green light to come back. That was really hard for her, you know, like, and it, it made me really, really angry to see how upset she was. And I felt that there was nothing I could do

about it when I was told one thing and something else happened. So when Hunter called us back to come back, I was like, we're going to right all the wrongs and we're going to, how we're going to do this. We're going to do it. And we couldn't be happier that we did, man. How do you deal with that from like a

marriage standpoint? Cause you're both in the same industry, right? It's not like, Oh, you know, my wife works in jewelry business. So we're not vying for the same thing. I know you guys aren't vying for one spot, but like you're in the same world. Sometimes works good for me, works good for her,

works bad for her, good for me, bad for me, good for her. But like you're now in the spot she wants to be. And you come home, you want to tell her about the day. You want to tell her about this interaction, but she's bummed. Right? Yeah. It was tough. Like that's exactlymed, right? Yeah, it was tough. Like, that's exactly what happened. Yeah, I can't imagine. It felt like terrible. It felt terrible. Like, you know, every week we were just kind of telling ourselves, well, I'm sure they'll

bring you up next week. Why wouldn't they? You know what I mean? And then they don't, and then they don't, and then they don't, and then you get the call and you're released. Like it was, thank God her and I have a great relationship and we understand our lanes of communication and knowing when to take care of each other and like that could fold anybody, you know, that type of stress, but it didn't with us, it actually brought us closer, you know. Wow.

It's just like, you know, it's, the longer you stay in a relationship with somebody, I always find you, you really figure out what kind of glues it all together. You know, some relations last, relationships they last and then some don't. And her and I have grieved together. We found success together.

We've traveled all over the world together. We've been apart for certain periods of time. And the only thing that changes is like her and I get closer. And so that was a no brainer to marry her. We weren't even married at that time. We were just dating. Right, right, right.

I mean, I can't, what a business to be involved with, you know, your wife, because you hear about the road stories and all this stuff and like, I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. I guess it's a, it's a blessing, right? It is for sure. Like it's.

Flying. I gotta tell you. Road trips. It's easy. It's easy doing this with her because we just both understand what it is that we kind of need from each other and what we don't need. Traveling is always fun.

Um, we go all over the world together to these countries that they're flying us to to perform and get to see the whole world together. You know, like I grew up on a dead end street, dude. And like there is, I've said this before, but like, there's a, there's a lot of people that never got off that street. Right. I tried. So when I'm in Switzerland now or Brussels, I'm looking at these buildings of these

countries that have decades upon decades of history. And I'm like, no, a doomsday, say it, or suplex and a choke out here. Who would have thought, you know, I would just look at it. I go, I can't believe this. We have those moments together and they're priceless. Like learning about the world together. It's maybe one of the best parts of the job is to like actually see the world and engage with

different cultures and stuff like that. That's the stuff that people don't see, but it's incredible. And right now, I mean, what a time for pro wrestling, right? Um, I think, you know, with WWE on Netflix, there's other organizations doing great things. I think that breeds success for all, you know,

rising tide, like in MMA, there's one dominant league, there's, there's no one else. And, and, and honestly, for, for the, for the boys, if you will, MMA there's one dominant league there's there's no one else and and and honestly for the for the boys if you will like there's not a lot of options you guys have options which I think only leads to good things for everyone involved that I would say in all your years of being a part of pro wrestling like right now has to be the hottest time right? I think so it feels that way. Yeah and and you're enjoying this in the midst of all of it you're not sitting in the corner in catering being like, I wonder if, you know what I mean? And your situation is so great because if this was 1987,

it wouldn't be able to work out this way. You couldn't put out a YouTube documentary. You couldn't engage with people the way in which you do on Twitter, right? You're using all of that. Are you, do you have the green light? You can do whatever you want? Kind of.

Yes. Within reason. This is amazing. Within reason. It's the dream. It is the dream. Yes. A lot of, like Drew has done a great job with this over the past year and a half or so using social media to his advantage.

I love when guys and gals use all the other things as opposed to just relying on those 10, 15 minutes you get on TV. It's a lot of fun to follow along because you bring us into your world. When again, when I was a kid in 87, I love that guy, Brett Hart, but I didn't really know anything other than what I saw on TV about him. Right. So you're taking us in and there's, I know

there's a psychology to that. It's, it's, it's a lot of fun. It is man. It's, it's the best job in the world, dude. Even like, I get some people that come up to me and tell me like, Oh, I can't like, I get some people that come up to me and tell me like, Oh, I can't believe you're putting up with that.

Like if you only knew the other side of it, you know, it's like, that's just the tendency we all have when we talk to each other and talk about things. We don't always share our W's with each other because some people, you feel like they might get weird when you talk about how great things are.

Like there's been so many amazing things that have come out of working with this company and being with this company over the years, things that are just so unexpected, like just epiphanies and revelations about people and cultures. And I mean, I'm, I'm on my second book right now. And. Yes, your book is coming out, right? Yeah.

August, I think. Yep. The, I'm writing a chapter right now. There it is. Yep. That's surreal to see. I can't believe it. I'm writing a chapter right now about like how I discovered how the world is not really as divided as they tell us. And like being a kid who grew up in the working class, all you have is what's on television and what it tells you how things are. And the way you're, you have these preconceived notions of things that you're told and then you,

you get out and you see the world and people are far more connected than, than they realize. And like that, I think has been the greatest shining light that I've actually found from this job and I would have never expected that. I just wanted to play fight my underwear. You know what I mean? That's all have never expected that. I just wanted to play fight my underwear. You know what I mean? That's all I want to do.

I just wanted to hit people with steel chairs and scream into a microphone, you know, and stare down the barrel of a hard camera and have fun. There are so many different things that have, that I figured out and found out about myself and like how I feel about the world. I'm going to send you a copy.

Oh, I'd love that. When the, when the, when the book is finished privately, I want you to let me know what you think. Oh, I would love that. If you don't mind. Yeah, absolutely. I would love that.

And what about seeing all these legends give you props, right? Sean Waltman was on the show giving you props, Kevin Nash giving you props, Diamond Dallas Page giving you props. I'm missing a bunch off the top of my head. That's gotta feel great. It's nuts.

Uh, I see, I see one pop up like every other couple of weeks or another month. And I grew up watching these guys. Yeah. It's mind blowing. Like it's also a really cool feeling too. Cause they, you know, I grew up watching them. They were, they were like entertaining me and

to know that I'm actually now entertaining them. It's crazy. You know what I mean? Like these people just existed behind like this little glass screen. I couldn't get to them. Now they're out there and they see me. I have moments like that all the time. Everybody like has their own way of like how they're going to deal with, you know, uh, meeting legends and meeting the people who grew

up watching some people like to play it down and no sell it hard how are you I don't give a shit I go up and tell them everything I mean there I may never see them again right I mean like I keep it I keep it 100 with those people like I just I tell them where I watch them you know when I watch them if I saw them live and the matches I remember and everything, it's awesome. It's really, really cool. And they appreciate that. I think so.

1000%. Yeah. Um, to be remembered. Absolutely. And I appreciate it. Uh, I see you playing with your hair. I would be remiss if I don't ask you about the hair, because I was watching, I kind of forgot

if I'm being honest, uh, you were in Kane Velasquez's first match. Yes. Back in AAA. Yep. Man, Kane was so damn good. El Toro with that mask flipping around all over the place. Um, and you've, you've got the fade. The is your, here you are with, uh, with Cammy

like, yo, Kane was so freaking good. They, I don't, so I don't think they caught the shot and it was a little chaotic at the time, but we had a slap off at the time. So when the match started, you'd probably see it from really far away and they didn't catch it. I slapped Kane at the time. So when the match started, you probably see it from really far away and they didn't catch it.

I slapped Cain in the face, uh, when the match started knowing that he was going to slap me back. Yeah. And I was like, imagine he knocks me out at the beginning of the match. Yeah, it's his first time. He doesn't know how to pull his punches and

then slaps. Thank God he didn't, but holy cow, did Cain whack my head off. Somehow I'm still. I thought he was going to be, and things have happened and obviously it's so unfortunate, but I rewatched that match today and I was like, wow, the stuff that he was doing on his first day on a big show, right? Yes.

Yeah. Unbelievable. We were training together in Vegas, um, before he went and did AAA, we were training in FSW together. We would do sort of like matches in the school. Disco was there, um, with the students were just kind of showing him how to put his shoot

stuff into the match and then mix that with the Luchador stuff too. But he knew his audience when, when he was in Mexico, he was doing all the Lucha stuff, which he loved. He loved that. You didn't have to tell him to learn anything. He was going out on his own and learning it.

And he was doing it really, really well. Like there's some people that have like different ways that they learn, you know, visually, audibly, or practically, I think like he. Learns all of that. Like, like, I don't think he has a specific lane. He, he learns things and retains it and executes it perfectly.

The, the, the rate that he learns, it's not a surprise to see that he he killed everybody in UFC. He's one of those guys. Any chance we bring back the fade, the buzz cut? Yeah. If there was a story that, if that's something people wanted me to do and there was a story where it actually made sense instead of just sort of randomly showing up,

then I would absolutely do it. I, I actually almost, uh, shaved my head in December. I was going to donate my hair to a charity that was going to turn it into wig, like a wig for kids that are suffering from hair loss for whatever it is that they were doing. And I think at the time they wanted to, you know, they wanted to time it creatively so we

could kind of kill two birds at one stone, but that didn't come around. I don't know if I wind up still doing that, if they, if they need it and we can time it with the story, I will. But, um, I made like a, I made a good donation in the, in the absence of donating my hair. So I work with them on the side.

So maybe, uh, uh, an appearance back on AAA. Now I would love that. Conan has been telling me for a while he wants to get me back down there in some sort of capacity. They have a big show coming up. Oh you want to do a tag team on that? No no I was just. What do you mean? Come on. I would love I'd love to be your manager but you have a manager already I don't know but you know a tag team I'll do it. I'll be your Andy Kaufman sort of. Please I'll be Tony Clifton. Okay. Yes, exactly. OK, fine.

Let's round third here. And this has been incredible. Thank you so much. And again, thank you for coming in. If you could lay out the rest of the year for us, what's the dream? What's the hope? Oh, this is where it doesn't happen.

OK, you don't want to put it out there. Are you superstitious? Ah, more strategic. OK, all right. Fair enough. Fair enough. That's smart it out there. This is superstitious. Uh, more strategic. Okay. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. That's smart. It's better to be that way. You know, this is what I will say. I hope that I am given the flexibility to lean into what the crowd wants from me. That's what I would like to see more than anything, more than titles,

more than winning more than anything. I want to have the ability to lean into where the audience wants me to go. Cause at the end of the day, it's about giving them what they want. That's what it's about. So however that manifests, um, in whatever way they could utilize me in order to do that, that's what I want to happen. I want to stop going out there and feeling like I have to give them something that they don't want. I want to give them what they want.

I don't think there's anything radically crazy about what I just said. No. At all. And I think that that's what they want too. And I think you're doing that and I think they want more of it. I look forward to seeing more of it. Oh yeah. Great stuff. Thank you so much.

Really appreciate it. For having me. Continued success. Um, and keep it up, man. It's a lot of fun to watch both, you know, on the show and everything you're doing off of the YouTube channel is great. Thank you.

Really great stuff. So, uh, thank you so much. He is Karrion Kross. He is the man. Check him out and check out the YouTube channel as well. We put it up earlier. It's, uh, it's great. And check out the book. You could pre-order it now on Amazon, right? Yes. There it is We'll take a quick break. We'll say goodbye to him. I'll be back to answer our super chats. Do not go anywhere

Ariel Hawani in Las Vegas being joined by Rowdy Rhonda Rousey who faces Julia bud at strike force challengengers on November 18th and Ronda it's good to see you in person for the first time. Something I've always wanted to ask you before we get into all the fight talk, the Rowdy, your nickname, does that come from Rowdy Roddy Piper? Yeah it does actually. He was one of my favorite wrestlers back a while ago. He still is but he's a good friend of Gene LaBelle who's one of corners, and I actually got to ask him personally if it'd be okay to borrow his name. So he said he's cool with it, so I wear it proudly. So you actually came up with your own nickname? Well we kept trying to come up with nicknames for forever, and Rowdy was always the first one everyone came up

with, and we tried thinking of like other ones, like, but what else goes... Nothing, Rowdy and Rousey just go together, it was just natural so we stick stuck with it and in a weird way it sort of fits your personality right are you saying I'm rowdy well I mean you've sort of shaken up the women's MMA scene in a sense that's sort of rowdy in a sense no yeah okay I'll be with you on that one now maybe for your next fight you come out in the kill bagpipes all that are are you going to leave the Irish gimmick to him? I'm actually not the least bit Irish. I'm like half Venezuelan and like a quarter English and a quarter Polish.

I think that would kind of piss off some Irish about this, you know, pretending to be. Do you know his son? His son is also an MMA fighter. Not personally, no, but I knew of that. Okay. Alright, enough on Rowdy Piper. Let's talk about this fight. You are climbing the ladder

rather quickly in Strikeforce and it's kind of one of the good things about being in the Strikeforce Women's Division because I think the division is still developing and you're able to climb the ladder if you sort of, you know, make some noise. You're fighting Julia Budd, she's a tough fighter, sort of at the same, you know, experience level as you. Where do you think that you have the edge over her? Well, I actually completely disagree with you you I don't think she has anywhere near the same experience level as me I mean she's seven and one Muay Thai two and one boxing and two and one and MMA so she's competed 13 times in her life

whereas competed thousands of times in my life I mean when I was a kid I was competing in three divisions a weekend you know just doing match after match after match so I feel like my experience is a big advantage that I have over her. I guess I was more referring to MMA experience, but you make a good point. Of course, your judo background and whatnot. Are you even impressed with her? Are you impressed with what she's done in MMA? I'm impressed with everybody. I take everybody completely seriously. I think it's stupid for you not to take a match serious, regardless of the person it is. You could always, you know, trip on the tape and, you know, fall on your face.

So you never know I'm I'm giving this my full attention at the time have you watched your last fight and Are you certain that the right call was made that that the ref should have stopped the fight even though she didn't technically tap Well, she was screaming and I could actually feel her arm popping out and when she dislocates that one's arm It's actually in the most sensitive area of your body So if you're implying that I'm imagining sensations in that area, then we have another argument on our hands. Well, I wasn't implying that. I was just wondering if you thought,

because there seems to be this weird thing going on now where referees are saying that if you scream, that sort of constitute a tap. I thought she was yelling tap tap as loud as she could. And other people told me they heard that too, and she said she was just yelling out. But they tell you right before you walk in, if anything verbal during the

submission is count as a verbal submission that count as tapping because i could i thought she couldn't tap because she was falling forward and using her arm to catch herself so uh... i think if she could have tapped she would strike force is an interesting spot now because maybe if we would have talked uh... a week ago we would have said there's a good chance you'd have to look for a job elsewhere come February

But it sounds like things are going very well Dana white talked about how he's now sort of taking control It appears as though strike force has a future on showtime and that means women's MMA probably has a future as well Are you hearing anything about next year and and and what the landscape will be like in strike force and especially for the women? No, I'm amazed on those sports that people are constantly saying a million things and gossiping and I'm just gonna keep doing my job and fighting as well as I can and putting on a good show and if I keep bringing them spectators and money then I'm sure they'll keep us around. It seems as though strike force really likes you. They're pushing you very hard.

You get that sense? I hope so. I like them. Right. But they've sort of been hot and cold with women but they're putting a lot of videos out about you, you know, they're bringing you to do media. They don't do that with a lot of other women. Why do you think that is?

Well, I'm doing the best I can to be as marketable as possible, and I think they kind of agree with me in that sense. So we're trying to work together and bring Women's MMA to the limelight and, you know, make it look just as exciting and interesting as a men. What are you doing, you know doing specifically to be marketable? Well, I'm training as hard as possible and I want to have a very exciting style, not just to win matches but to win them impressively. I took the time to do my nails and hair and makeup today.

You have to do everything that you can to make it interesting. Speaking of which, you've been putting out some YouTube videos lately and your titles, and I'm not clicking on them for this reason, but your titles are very deceiving. Are you aware of this? You know what, I don't think of it as first, but then I read them later, I'm like, oh yeah, but I just kind of think if I, you know, if an unedited sex video comes out later, then people just won't believe the title and they won't click on it, so then I'll get away with it. So is that something that you're trying to hide? No, I'm just saying it's a possibility I'm prepared for. Classic interview there with

Rhonda Rousey November of 2011, golly, 14 years ago and that was a classic chat or a soon-to-be classic chat with Karrion Kross. I enjoyed that, hope you guys did as well. What a fascinating individual, Cerebral, the best way to describe him. Very thoughtful and what a story as well. And I hope that you guys, maybe if you were unfamiliar with his work, with his story now, are interested in him as well. Check out the YouTube channel. Check out the book that's coming out. Check out that documentary that he put out. Really, really smart. Really, really good. Very fun. And that promo that he cut after WrestleMania was tremendous as well so a lot of fun stuff there was looking forward to that he delivered and he came in studio which is incredible

alright some super chats before we call it a day is on air joining a rhythm do you want me to yeah I liked it yesterday alright Is On Air joining in the rhythm? Do you want me to? Yeah, I liked it yesterday. Alright. So we have Josh Jones here. Hi Josh. With the heavyweight division being as shallow as it is and at a standstill, why isn't the

UFC bringing in new potential contenders for our obvious next superstar, Tom Espinall? Well, I don't think it's that easy. Like, look at the other organizations. Look at PFL. Look at, Tom Aspinall. So it's not like there's any great contender. They got to build him up. You know, there's the Almeidas of the world. People thought that he would be, you know, a potential superstar. Despin, people thought maybe would be a potential superstar. But I just think that there's a shortage of talent right now. A shortage of like, can't miss prospects. Look at PFL slash Bellator's heavyweight division. Not great. You know there's a couple guys obviously Nemkov is

up there in the heavyweight division but there there aren't a ton there aren't a ton so let's see but this kind of goes sick. I mean look at the welterweight division. Welterweight division was pretty boring a couple years ago now it's the hottest division in the in the sport or at least in the UFC what else Joey says Chad Ocho cinco said on Theo Vaughn yesterday he's trying to have an MMA fight against James Harrison what are we setting the line at weird go sends go all right not in the playoffs anymore but I appreciate it Ocho cinco against James Harrison is there a beef there I guess that's that's Bengals versus Steelers. Yeah. Do you remember Johnny Morton, the Kansas City

Chief wide receiver? He had a an MMA fight against a comedian on a the K-1 show at the LA Coliseum which featured the debut of Brock Lesnar and got viciously knocked out. Viciously knocked out. I'm not saying the same thing will happen here because they'd both be debutantes. But interesting that they're talking MMA and not boxing. You would think, you know, you would think... Maybe it evens the field for Chad since, you know, James Harrison is one of the scariest for Chad since you know James Harrison take down the scariest guys yeah also I feel like he's much bigger than Chad right linebacker it's like double the size right anyway sure why

not what are we setting the line at okay that's the question Harrison minus 325. How's that? I feel like bigger right? Minus 500? Yeah I mean he's gigantic. Yeah. And he was always in insane shape when he was playing. Yeah he was. Is there is there an actual beef there or is it just Steelers, Bengals? I was gonna say Bengals, Steelers. But there's no like story? there is I don't know it's no it's no Ryan Clark RG 3 I'm not gonna lie I'm spicy I've only seen the surface of that one I don't know you're better off I saw Ryan Clark's tweets I saw RG 3's tweets it's crazy I don't know what actually happened to you right like you open the app and all of a sudden it's just like what's funny is like it does get fed to you but I only got a little nibble I didn't dive deeper into

it you didn't care enough to dive deep no I saw Ryan Clark's tweet is like it does get fed to you, but I only got a little nibble I didn't dive deeper into it. You didn't care enough to dive deep No, I saw Ryan Clark's tweet about like I stand ten toes down or whatever. Yeah, I know what I said I was like had like 20k likes I was like, yeah, we just I had a meal. I didn't just nibble I've been Just enjoy Like Caitlin Clark and like can we just enjoy sports? Oh, that's the basis of this? Yes. Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese. Angel Reese, yes. Why can't we just, like, have fun and enjoy sports? I thought WNBA might be banning booing?

I mean, I don't know what that even means. Sounds like the first on-the-nose question we got at the beginning of the show could come into play there. No joke, I was at home for, like, an hour on Saturday. We were going to a bar mitzvah, and no one was home. And you know what I do? No joke, I was at home for like an hour on Saturday, we were going to a bar mitzvah and no one was home. And you know what I do? No joke, no joke. I go on the Yahoo Sports app, I go on the Yahoo Sports app, and at the top of the app, you guys use the Yahoo Sports app,

it's tremendous. My kids actually ask me every morning to play the daily draw, which is the I play daily draw every day, baby. I do have a bone to pick with the daily draw. Rick, one daily draw which is like daily draw every day baby I do have a bone to pick with the daily drug one day yes yes you did win you did win I like it a lot it's a lot of fun my kids love it very very very rarely is a Knicks game the featured game oh tonight it is tonight it is and I know it's it's it's not oh did you get all Pacers it's all Pac Pacers. Every single one. So we opted out. We're like, we're not, we're not doing anything that is pro Pacers. So we opted out. Anyway, point is, I got some nice ones.

Top of the, top of the app, you can like scroll through one of the biggest sporting events of the day. It's very, very smart. Very. So I scroll through and I see, oh, Indiana Fever against Chicago Sky. I'm gonna watch this like I said I am going to watch the beginning of this game I am into it I enjoy watching Caitlin Clark I think she's incredible and and so the point is like WMBA has something here don't screw it up there's something great I don't know about this screwing it up the booing thing what is that Oh And also to everyone else stop screwing it up. Stop ruining it Stop making it out to be something bigger than it is just leave she the way she handles all these situations

The interviews the questions thrown her way People trying to dig is there some subliminal meaning to this that is there an ulterior motive this that she handles it like a pro It's very impressive, but just you know Can we just enjoy the games? Well? Why does it have to be so? intense with drama You like it sports media. Yeah, that's what's making but this is a lot That's like every it's like game one off the bat It's like we didn't miss a beat from last year

And now we've got Ryan Clark and RG 3 hating on each other, talking about each other's families and when they were working together, like what are we even talking about here? What's going on? Two former NFL players giving their take on women's basketball. Yeah, well guess what? Kevin Durant said, enough of the football players giving their take on basketball.

He did say that, he did say that. That's what I'm saying. I love what I see, I love it, oh right, okay. By the way, who had a response to that? Somebody had a response. Well no, he was writing to Emmanuel Ocho. That, right. Okay. By the way, who had a response to that? Somebody had a response. Well, no, he was writing to a manual. Ah, Joe. That's right I love what I see. I love what I see tweets and then it's just like Durant did there He actually cracked right there. It is and it was just like random tweets. He's responding to it

He's like, okay Tell me someone's like the best thing to ever happen to the Knicks was when you know, they didn't sign Durant and caries Okay, let's talk about this for a second. The best thing that ever happened was Durant's burner getting exposed because now he just does it on main. I love it. I fucking love it. Thank you, Kevin Durant.

It's the best. Yeah, it is actually great. I like when he just claps at people. Who cares? I don't care that he's a millionaire athlete. In fact, I love it. Do more. I agree.

I agree. What else? Jake says, what do you think is an appropriate age for a kid to start watching MMA? I was 10 when I first watched with Brock coming in, so I've been curious. You know, I don't really subscribe to like, hey, it should be at this age. Like I put it on, my kids have watched it. I don't think it should be like NC 17 or anything like that. I just think you have to, I mean, my parents never said to me don't think it should be like NC 17 or anything like that. I just think you have to, I mean, my parents have said to me, don't watch boxing or don't watch wrestling.

And I was definitely watching that sub 10. I think you just have to know your kid and what they're into. And like, are they gonna try to emulate this? Are they gonna try to do it on their friends? Are they gonna try to do it in the backyard? Well, maybe they need to be a little bit more mature. But if your kid is smart, mature, into it, 10 years old, then God bless. I'm

not sure about this. Is there an age restriction to attend events? Can you bring a 10-year-old? I guess not, because some of the kids, like the sons and daughters of the fighters get to attend. Not as far as I know. Yeah. And I don't imagine there would, like like to your point, it's kind of a parental thing. You make that call as opposed to like a legal situation. Right. So yeah, I say you got to know who you're dealing with, but I don't think there should be some sort of like

hard fast rule. You need to be 13 to watch MMA. What else? Lastly, Matt says, played versus bananas in 2020 in college summer ball. Transition post COVID. Liking it to Eddie Hall Spectacles of MMA. Purest or not interested, but if you accept it for what it is, it can be fun. Well, guess what? It seems like a lot of people are interested because they're selling out football stadiums. It's an unbelievable thing. And you know what I like about it? The games aren't works. So in addition, obviously there's some like, you know, some hijinks here and there, but it's a great product and surely baseball can afford to get younger, you know what I mean? And attract younger fans in any way shape or form. And then when you actually see, like

watch the 60 minutes or the real sports story on the founder, you really kind of want to root for these guys. It must be fun to play against them. Like, it must be, because you're kind of just there for the show too, like you're involved in the show, but you're not. Yeah, I'm sure.

I want to say their opponents do showy shit every once in a while. Oh, they do. Maybe now, yeah. Oh yeah, actually that would make sense. But the games are definitely not works, right? I don't know, I can't, I don't know. It's hard to say.

I do, yeah. If they lose, it has to be, right? I went to a Savannah Bananas game when it was just normal baseball, like 2017. That's a great name, great jersey, great uniform. Great jersey. Good merch, yeah. I mean, like, the jerseys were just

straight up bananas for a while. Brilliant. Were they an affiliate of a major league team? No, it was like the Coastal Pro League or something like that. It was just like college summer ball. It's also great because in that 60-minute story, they talk to a lot of guys who sort of hit their ceiling, right? College guys, and now here they are getting this opportunity to be studs on a team that's playing in front of 80,000 people and playing on ESPN as well. By the way there's another one here that I see you didn't ask. I was gonna say what's the MMA equivalent of this? Is it fight circus? What is a... Oh, fight circus? No, I'd say like Ryzen. No! No, it's just Ryzen.

I really think it's just Harlem Globetrotters doing Savannah sand that's where they were a Mets affiliate when they were there. Okay, and that is that sand? Gnats yeah, that's a real bad in South Georgia. There's there's another one here. Will you please make up with Colby? You don't want to ask that one. You felt it was too well I did clear that originally with executive producer New York Rick and then he told me actually let's skip this one Yeah, I came back in the room and said the vibes are good right now. There's nothing there's nothing to say There's no negative vibe. There's no negative vibe. I Would just say there's no issue there. I'm actually I've never been

Clear as to why he doesn't like me anymore I know he didn't like that it was somewhat critical of the discourse following the tire and Woodley fight and in but you know In the build-up to the oosemen it was really that one night DC and I were talking about it But like really I mean on a scale of one to ten of how critical I was I think I was like a two I I actually think I backed him quite well. I've told the story about pitching ESPN to do a feature on him. On Memorial Day weekend, he went to go see some of the troops here in New York City, did a whole feature with him. And yeah, some people didn't like that he would show up wearing the MAGA hat. I told them he's

allowed to wear whatever he wants, at least on my show. They wanted his interviews to be pre-taped. I didn't want them to be pre-taped. So yeah, that one's a weird one, but you know, it happens. Fighters, they can be interesting folks. It tends to all come around. Maybe it won't with him, I don't know. But it's not like I think I've tried to prove over and over again.

Like I don't think there's anyone, you guys tell me if I'm if I'm mistaken here, where I've said like I will never try to make peace with this person. I feel like life is a lot better when you're not at odds with people. When you don't have quote-unquote beefs, when you don't have issues, when you don't have any type of friction. I think life is better that way. So I don't want any of that. I don't want it with him.

I don't want it with any of the people we've talked about in the past. Now am I actively trying to make up with everyone? No, you kind of just go through life and see how it all figures itself out. But I would certainly extend my hand if someone wanted to. That was the last one, right? That was the last one. I did get an ESPN notification talking about Indiana today. I don't know if you saw this.

Something about a rivalry, like clearly a rivalry. I don't care what these guys in the back have to say. Nixon five. I actually got this same one for yesterday afternoon for Thunder versus Timber Wolf. No, that's not true. Yeah, Hugh was a good list. It was a solid list.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I thought you were just teaming me up for an update on United Spurs. Oh, okay, so we do have an update there. Yeah, please. The other huge rivalry. Onenothing Tottenham in the 77th minute. Holy shit did Brendan score? So if I was the one doing the scorebook I'd say Brendan Johnson got the goal but Luke Shaw own goal for Man U. Oh wow. Hit Brendan's foot bounced around off of Shaw's chest. So they're 13 minutes away from winning this sorry

sorry plays and pasta coglou always wins a trophy in his second year that's amazing did you see his press conference yesterday where he said I ain't no clown mate you see that he's the best yeah he's great place going to champion go to Champions League that's unbelievable when's the last time they were in Champions League was the last year two When's the last time they were in Champions League? Was it last year? Two years ago maybe? They were in a final in Champions League like six years ago.

Oh that's right, that's right. Other news for you. Did you see some Buffalo Bills news? Buffalo Bills, no. Hard Knocks. Yeah, you know what, someone texted me that in the middle. Don't love it. No No Josh Allen gets more shine The country gets to love him even more than you already do look look at what hard knocks did to the Giants

With the Barkley thing well that was because one executive said something really stupid. No I don't know what do we what do we need this for I'm actually surprised that the bills did this I Don't want anyone looking at our stuff. I don't want any Intel we get enough Where is this airing Amazon HBO Max Max HBO HBO Max, whatever they call it HBO go no HBO now. Come on. Don't disrespect wasn't there one on Amazon, too Yeah, I don't I feel like it's bad juju has any team won the Super Bowl that's been a part of Hard Knocks That same season I don't think so yeah, I know it used to be exclusively for dumpster teams yeah, I mean you were fun. We had to fall into a guideline of like

You you didn't make the playoffs the year prior yada yada yada is that is that a Matt Serra picture to your right or Randy Couture this right here yeah I can't tell this picture right here yes who is that this is the world champion of the world Jack Delamatta lana oh wow it looks like he's he looks like he has an old belt that's the new one yeah well okay now I can see it sort of why you laughing thank you so random Matt I don't know I don't yeah I got my Mac Sarah pick it finally came in are you guys gonna buy

bitch coin yeah but I don't know when to buy it all-time high you said buy now 50k now all-time high that's what he said like the wrong time to buy that's what he said he said in ten years gonna be even higher what's the number to call carrying across about beach coin you were oh yeah why was he watching Moikano I'm gonna pay for my membership that is very aware of Moikano but Kingdom MMA he's he pays attention to the stock market we were talking about things. Oh, love it. What a guy, what an interesting guy. What a mensch.

One, 416, 415? 415, supBITB. 415, supBITB, leave the boys a message. They'll play maybe the best 10 or so. Yeah, we play it by ear, but we'll play the team. Someone needs to cross out Frank's head there, he ain't on tomorrow. No, we're not changing the graphic just play when it's a cross out Frank's head there. He ain't on tomorrow No, we're not check out graphic just for that. Come on. Hope he's enjoying Seattle

Yeah, so we miss him. We miss him. Yeah, but Nick I mean he's some are saying Frank's, you know, the the next is out So we're saying that Nick's Lou Gehrig if you get the reference through blood So should do we break do we break the fourth wall and say that? When we left a little the little Easter. Yeah, Frank. I think I the fourth wall and say that when we left the little Easter egg, Frank. I think I said it yesterday, did I not? He dropped it, yeah, grits. We'll throw another one his way.

It's a bitch coin, how about that? Frank, if you're listening, text us bitch coin. I promise I won't tell him this. Now he's, don't tell him, Nick. Skipping just to the end of every show, just for the little message. We should have dropped something in the front. What is the current price of when you send it? Thank you. Yeah, and let us know that too What are we talking about tomorrow?

We're gonna do a little bit of if John Jones is done and the legacy is complete and he's talking to fans about the legacy Is over what is the legacy of John Jones? What is what is the John Jones experience been like in his MMA career? And what's potentially next or what's in the rear view for the GOAT, in my opinion? All right, Santos joining the program? Myron Santos is coming. Love it. Love that you guys are spotlighting

some of the up and comers, if you will. And what's the top five? Summer activities. Summer activities, Summer activities Memorial Day weekend kicks off the summer schedule. Nailed it. Thought maybe you guys would go with like things to bring to Memorial Day barbecue. Nah we've already kind of raisins no raisins. Raisin oh you're talking about in the potato salad. Yeah. We'll do that July 4th. This is your hot take? What are you? I know because I just know it

always like it always comes down to the raisins every Memorial Day Barbecue chat is always about the raisins and I don't honestly I'm very indifferent Best movies surrounding Memorial Day we thought about that are there Memorial Day is a huge named three Independence Day. Isn't that July 4th Top Gun? Top Guns Memorial Day. Yeah, Maverick. Hey, you didn't know? The whole reason they were at the... Tape by Ryan's a great one. At the flight school was for Memorial Day. Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible. New one. You know about that? Best summer blockbusters. That'll be one. That's a fun one. That'll be one. Save that one for July. Quiet weekend in July. Yeah. Alright, and then the crack on Friday.

PT, what you guys gonna be talking about? Yeah, PT, are you here? No, but it is worth noting since we're talking about Memorial Day, no show on Monday. So you guys won't be seeing any of us on Monday, but we'll be back on Tuesday for a brand new episode as we inch closer to the highly anticipated Aaron Blanchfield

versus Macy Barber fight night at the Apex but much more to come Thursday boys in the back Friday the crack and then Tuesday all right time to go you're gonna get that Karen cross merch GC? Yep, shirt on the way. Yeah, www.shop.com That's a good question from Gecko Da. Pizzi, who's the greatest Irish athlete of all time? What do you say Pizzi? Oh how about this one? One gorilla

versus a hundred Darren Tills or one gorilla versus a hundred Jared Cannoneers? Because Cannoneers to kill a gorilla, Tills just a gorilla. What are we choosing in that scenario though? I'm not sure. I don't know. Then he says Nixon won. LFG. I don't know. Nixon won. That'd be impressive. Which member of the boys in the back slays the hardest? That would be that man right there. Quite literally. Oh, this is a good one from Burley.

Just want to say hello to you and the boys in the back in Pizzi. Video on Spotify in 2026, working on it. Frank is actually at the offices now, trying to do that. That is why he is gone. He's at Spotify headquarters. He's at Spotify HQ. I love it.

Who had the worst exit in the playoffs? The Jets or the Maple Leafs? Definitely the Maple Leafs. Maple Leafs lost 6-1, game 7 at home. Maple Leafs. Maple Leafs lost 6-1, game 7 at home. Yeah. Anyway, it's been a great day. Thank you so much to everyone who stopped by.

Thank you very much to Hennata Moicano, Michael Carter Williams. Thank you very much to Karrion Kross. Thanks to all of you. Thanks to all of them. Back on Thursday, September 7th. Peace out.