The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Adult ADHD, Diagnosis and Assessment with Maddy Alexander-Grout

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

Starting point is 00:00:32 the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up today, what is ADHD and how does it present in adults? We are talking with

Starting point is 00:01:08 Maddy, who has recently been diagnosed with ADHD, and we're discussing her experiences of growing up, seeing that play out for herself, and also when she had her realisation moments and what taking medication has been like, how that has changed her and how she is super pleased now that she knows what she knows and how that has become her superpower. This is so relevant for us, whether we are neurodivergent ourselves, whether we are living or working or supporting clients who are neurodivergent. I hope you'll find this so useful. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. Now, you will have to have been living in a cave to not have seen the recent surge in press attention and social media attention for issues around neurodiversity.

Starting point is 00:02:14 And I am here for it. I think it's incredibly empowering and really, really useful and helps people to understand things about themselves both now and maybe in the past and how to plan and better prepare for things in future too. Today's episode we are looking at ADHD and it is a brilliant listen and one that I hope you will find is time well spent. I will catch you on the other side. I just want to welcome along Maddy to the podcast today. Hi Maddy. Hey Marianne, thanks for having me. Thank you for saying yes. So we are in several business networks together and we've kind of got to know each other that way and what really stood out was obviously your amazing content which we'll come on to talk about later but you have recently had an ADHD diagnosis haven't you? Can I ask you what does ADHD mean to you and for you? So it all kind of came about in a really weird way so I knew nothing about ADHD probably

Starting point is 00:03:19 three four years ago. All I thought was it was that, you know, that naughty little boy thing that people have when they're in primary school. And my son's teacher called me in and said, we think Ben's got ADHD. And I was like, but he's not naughty. And they said, you don't have to be naughty. So I went away and I did loads of research on it and fell into the TikTok rabbit hole. I mean, I spend a lot of time on TikTok anyway. But it was it was a very interesting rabbit hole. And I came back out the other side going, Oh, this is me. This is all of this is me. I've got all of all of these symptoms. And kind of forgot about Ben, bless him. Horrible mum. And I focused on getting my diagnosis. So I decided after going to the NHS that it was going to be a very, very, very long process.

Starting point is 00:04:08 So I got a private diagnosis initially. Then there was that Panorama documentary about the diagnoses that private people give out. And I just doubted myself so much. I thought, no, maybe it's maybe they've misdiagnosed me. Maybe I don't have it at all. So I went back to the NHS and I thought I will get back on the waiting list and I got referred referred through Psychiatry UK right to choose which sped up the process a lot so we're talking you know three year waiting list down to like nine months and I got my ADHD diagnosis and the lady who was my psychiatrist said I've never seen anybody present their symptoms more ADHD-ly than you and I was like I'll take that as a compliment and she said but also I think you're autistic and I was like no I'm not autistic no no no no no I'm not having any of that not a chance went away and did a bit of research on autism as well i was like maybe possibly i don't know not not really and then i got my adhd

Starting point is 00:05:10 medication and i started taking that and then all of a sudden oh hello autism there you are so it completely unmasked me um i did i did a a basically a cpPD accreditation as a neurodiversity in the workplace specialist. And I learned all about all the other neurodivergent conditions. And I've got all of them apart from Tourette's. There's there's a lot there to unpack. But for me, having my ADHD diagnosis was the thing that literally changed my life. I went from feeling like a completely broken, unfunctional horse to realizing my superpower. And now I just embrace my neurodiversity. And I'm just a crazy wild zebra that does things the way that she does them. And when you have that moment of realization,

Starting point is 00:06:00 that actually, you're not broken, you know, it's made such a difference in my story because you know I had I had my money story I was in forty thousand pounds worth of debt um I struggled throughout my whole life with money spending addiction um all sorts of problems and all of a sudden I was like oh that makes so much sense that like. I didn't just spend because I was really bad with money. I spent because my brain was craving the dopamine. So it was very interesting. And I also realized after my diagnosis that I'd spent six years in business trying to follow the gurus and the people who were all really successful. And I realized that the reason why I wasn't successful is because my brain doesn't work that way. And when I started doing things my way, I started to become successful. Weird. And

Starting point is 00:06:52 everything changed for me. So it's been absolutely life changing getting a diagnosis. Yeah, and I'm really pleased that it's given you such, I don't know, like, is it keyholder benefits or keyholder understanding? Or it's just been transformational, but's given you such I don't know like is it keyholder benefits or keyholder understanding or it's just been transformational but also given you permission to really lean into who you are and to see your special gifts and talents is exactly that absolutely um knowledge is power um and for anybody who is out there thinking or suspecting that they might have ADHD act like like you have it. If you think you've got it, the likelihood is that you probably do. And I started to embrace it from day one that I found all that information and thought, that's me. And that was the thing that changed. I didn't

Starting point is 00:07:37 wait for the diagnosis to start owning it. I just owned it from day one. And I think if you wait and you kind of hang around in that limbo area, you don't have the knowledge is power situation. So I just went from not knowing I had it to knowing I had it. Because when you know, you know, and then that just gave me all of the knowledge that I could put together. And also it helped me to learn from my mistakes and all of the things that I've messed up on over the years. it made me to it made me feel like I was actually more successful than I was I'm so pleased you've had that experience of you know coming home I guess really um but just before we hit record I said oh I think I probably do you know fit within the criteria of ADHD and you're like yeah I think

Starting point is 00:08:25 I think you probably do too what made you say that what was your spidey sense so one of the things that like especially if you do neurodiversity in the workplace like we don't diagnose people so but I think it it does take one to know one we gravitate towards people who have similar traits, similar values, similar brain function. And I just you can get a feel from somebody with how fast they talk, like what they talk about, like the sharing situation. We're kind of oversharers a little bit, like not in a bad way, because I always think that the more people know know about me the more they'll like get to know like and trust me and the more people will want to work with me so I'm like an open book my husband hates it he's like I can't believe you just said that somewhere publicly but but for me it's just like what you see is what you get and I think you'll quite like that as well which I really like um so for me it's it's very much

Starting point is 00:09:26 like I will never say to somebody you've got ADHD but I think you know when you meet somebody who suspects they've got ADHD you can kind of say well if you suspect it you know your own brain right so you're probably right yeah and I think in terms of being able to quickly attune and warm and feel comfortable with people it's an excellent skill in psychology as well and in business coaching that you do um and it means that you you know and i think we're being podcasters both of us are podcasters you have to be your genuine self otherwise it comes across in a really staged manner and that just doesn't it doesn't sit well no no I just I talk on podcasts like I would talk to somebody if I was sat in a room with them like nobody needs that forced that forced staged thing

Starting point is 00:10:21 um I think it does also come from years of being an influencer as well. I just, I rock up on TikTok. I talk there every day. I share my innermost thoughts and feelings, but that's what people like. And that's the thing that helps me to get business. Yeah, definitely. And I think I'm thinking back to when I was working in CAMHS, which for anyone who's not familiar with that term, it stands for Children's and Adolescent Mental Health Services.

Starting point is 00:10:54 And we were having to kind of go into school and do observations. And quite often would be I'd be saying to the school that the child often didn't know I was coming. They didn't know they'd been referred. This was like the first stage of assessment. And they'd be saying, the teacher would be saying, well, there's no problem with them. You know, quite often if it was a girl, of course, there's no problem with them. They're fine. And I'm like, well, let's just take a moment to actually take a look at them together. Let's look at the behaviours that are required to sit still when sitting still is expected. You know,

Starting point is 00:11:25 I'm saying, actually, because what I'm seeing here is, you know, pen fiddling and elastic band tranging and, you know, dropping things on the floor all the time. And actually, if you look there, they're sitting in quite a constrained way. So at the moment, I've got my legs wrapped around each other. And, you know, often in school settings settings it's the children that you're constantly having to say stop rocking on your chair that actually might well end up fitting quite nicely with an adhd diagnosis and they're like why do i have to keep telling you and it's like actually it's because these are the behaviors that we're seeing from a child or a young person or an adult when sitting still is expected and they want to be

Starting point is 00:12:05 deferent to that they want to show that they're being respectful they want to maybe be able to engage with the learning what are they having to do to themselves or with themselves or for themselves to allow that to happen and once you can kind of get people's heads around that so my husband doesn't think that I fidget and yet I'm in constant motion I feel even when we're sitting still watching tv constantly moving my arms and my legs like because I want to sit still but those are my compensatory behaviors yeah absolutely it's weird that you say about like twisting legs around and stuff like and that's just been a penny drop moment for me that as a child when I was stood still rather than having my feet like this I used to do that I used to do that um and that's really weird because everyone used to be like why are

Starting point is 00:12:55 you standing like that but I just I felt uncomfortable in my legs and I it felt better that they went that way so really interesting that you said that yeah there's some sensory overlap there as well so probably not not everyone with ADHD has weird leg positioning but for me it just you know I like blankets as well like I like lots of blankets on my bed at night and in summer I sleep terribly because I like the the layers and actually that's name that just keeps me stiller I am exactly the same so I can't sleep unless I've got something on top of me that sounds really wrong um but it has to be like I need the comfort of something being wrapped around me and that's never good when you're perimenopausal I just oh it's awful but yeah I think the there was a lot that happened

Starting point is 00:13:47 in my childhood that was completely and utterly overlooked um which would have been very much signs and signals I couldn't stay friends with people for very long um and when I did I hyper focused on them to the point where I smothered them and then they didn't want to be my friend anymore because they were like my one person um I lost my I had my best friend for eight years and I lost her because she basically just thought I was too much and my jealousy of her being friends with other people was just a bit a bit weird um I had problems in school where I would just talk to fill space and like people just didn't really like that um my my behavior wasn't amazing and in kind of primary school and like early years um I picked

Starting point is 00:14:36 up things like bad habits like swearing and stuff from other kids but I couldn't couldn't keep it in so I would say things out loud which would get me in trouble and my mum took me to the doctors and I got diagnosed with an artificial colouring allergy which is very very typical for 80s girls who had ADHD. And I remember seeing you talking about that on socials recently and I think I even probably commented at the time that you know Joe Wicks has got himself in hot water recently for saying about kind of processed food but actually I think a lot of what he's saying really resonates for me so I grew up in a household where we ate lots of lentils and everything was homemade we were not vegetarian but the meat we had had to last a week like it was kind of a frugal household where everything was was homemade and that's you

Starting point is 00:15:26 know that's just what was the normal for me and when I was probably in my late primary school years I went to a McDonald's party and um the mother of the child said to me well what do you want Marianne what do you want to eat and I actually I was the kid that said I don't know what do they do because I'd never been to McDonald's before. And now as a parent of two young children, I couldn't, I can't really imagine that, you know, especially because it's even more prevalent now. But I'm, I'm 42, as we record this. So I was born in 81. And McDonald's was still pretty big business, even in the 80s and the early 90s. But what I noticed as I began to become more independent is that I was obviously buying things myself with my pocket money, or when I started to work, I'd be using my wages. And I actually thought that McDonald's made me what I called at the time

Starting point is 00:16:18 hyper, whereas in actual fact, I think it was that I was so unused to artificial processed foods that my body sort of went into overdrive. Like it was like a stimulant to me. And so I think really, whilst Joe Wicks might not have said it exactly like that, I think that what he's saying is, is we've got to be able to give ourselves, not our children, but our children to the best chance of thriving by really trying to make sure that their that their nourishment is optimal. So that then whatever is unique for them, whatever their best potential is, they've then got the chance to reach their full potential. This isn't elitism. This isn't like only bright, only brainy kids are great. But, you know, if we're giving optimum nourishment to everybody in our family regardless of age that gives them the level platform to be able to reach their optimal performance yes and and i i agree i think where where joe wicks kind of messed up was was saying that people are being misdiagnosed with ADHD when really it's artificial colouring

Starting point is 00:17:27 sugar whatever and having that from kind of the other way around where I was misdiagnosed with an artificial colouring allergy even though I had had no exposure to any of those kind of foods like my pet we we lived in the middle of nowhere we lived in like next door to a farm in a in a village in the middle of Hampshire there was not a McDonald's for miles um we never had anything like that we like I didn't have sweets we didn't go into town it was like everything was home cooked and fresh and we lived in a village so it was all like farm shop food and none of it was processed so when when I got that diagnosis my mum was like but she doesn't have any of those things and they were like well that's what it is so don't have any of

Starting point is 00:18:09 those um and that led to me having eating problems as a teenager because I was exposed then all of a sudden to chocolate and sweets and things that I'd never had before and I would save up my lunch money and I would go and spend it on sweets or chocolate after school because it gave me that dopamine and it gave me that high. So having that misdiagnosis as a child had such a knock-on effect on the way that I ate as a teen, but then also into my adult years. You know, I am such a sugar addict, you know I really wish I wasn't um and it's you know that's that's one of the things which has contributed to me being overweight and and I think that's that's a hard hard thing to think about um so when I when I heard that I thought

Starting point is 00:18:58 you know what Joe heart of the nation you know we we loved him during the pandemic but he has made a mistake in talking about something that he doesn't really understand yes 100% I do agree with the fact that you know processed foods are not great for our kids and they can cause hyperactivity but I think it was the misdiagnosis thing that was the thing that kind of hit the nerve for me. Thank you for talking back to that it's you know it's important that everybody has a voice on this so how about your son then because obviously a lot of our listeners will be looking at perhaps they might even be working in children's and young people's services how was this showing up for him what was being observed by his teachers and those around him?

Starting point is 00:19:42 So it was the the classic hyperactivity swinging on the chair but the fact that he was doing handstands when he should have been doing maths um like just not being able to sit still at all now he has he's like the Duracell bunny he literally just doesn't stop at all which for anybody who knows me is probably not that surprising because I'm exactly the same um but he is so so driven by a motor it is unreal how how much it shows up um he still hasn't had a formal diagnosis because it's at the time when his teacher told me about it he was six and they don't like doing it before seven so they've put put all of the steps and the processes in place to make his life at school so much better.

Starting point is 00:20:29 Like he's allowed to doodle when other people aren't. He can go for walks when he wants to. They give him like little break times so he can go and sit on his own. And they are really, really good for him. They also put him into the Hamish and Milo programme, which is all about anxiety. And they they are brilliant with him. Really, really good. I do need to get a wriggle on and actually get his diagnosis properly done, though, because secondary school, I think, will be a completely different kettle of fish. And he's now nine. So I think we do have to do it sooner rather than later. My daughter, on the other hand, she is also really early on showing ADHD signs, but more autistic.

Starting point is 00:21:13 She is so good at maths. She's really good at spelling. She is like her artwork is probably as good as like a 10 or 11 year olds and she's five um I'm just like but she was building lego blocks like proper not even jukelo but lego she was building at 18 months um maybe not the best thing to give a child that young but she was just all over it she was just you know she knew it didn't go up her nose she knew she didn't eat it she knew she had to build with it and it was crazy the sort of thing she was building at 18 months old. I think second time around, though, it's just different, isn't it? You've got the older toys in the house already and the children, the young children don't want these boring baby toys.

Starting point is 00:21:53 They want those exciting, you know, all singing, all dancing, grown up kid toys. So, yeah, I think we definitely introduced Lego a lot sooner with my youngest. Yeah. So thank you for kind of illuminating us about the processes for both of your children. I would say as a mummy, so I've got a 10 year old, he's going to be 11 in August. So he's, he's in year six currently, it would be ideal if you can to try and get it sorted out before your son's SATs, which will be, you know, the summer term of his year six, just because um and obviously speaking as a qualified psychologist as well we really want to be getting him used to whatever's going on for him so that

Starting point is 00:22:33 you've got a really solid transition plan between primary and secondary and it also might also influence your choice of secondary for him as well you might want to pick somewhere that's got resource spaces or just a you know something that's going to help him to do his very best because if you're kind of on the cusp of a couple of different catchment areas it's just about making sure that you're making the best choice for all of you really. It does make total sense and I think even down to things like school uniform like I worry about the fact that like his primary school, they wear Airtex T-shirts and joggers. And he's going to have to go to wearing shirt and tie and things which are going to be from a sensory perspective, really difficult for him. I think that's a big worry. And his school at the moment are really, really kind of lax about things like his school jump is itchy he doesn't wear

Starting point is 00:23:26 his school jumper he wears a hoodie but they're fine with that but secondary school they're not going to be fine with that and it's that transition where I think he's like yeah I want to go to secondary school I want to go with my friends and it's all fine and I'm like I don't want you to go I'm too scared like just uh it's it's it's hard being a parent sometimes but also it's really hard it's hard being a parent with ADHD when also, it's really hard. It's hard being a parent with ADHD when you've got neurodivergent kids. Because I think, being completely honest, if I'd have known what I knew now about my neurodivergent conditions, and the fact that I've got every single one of them, barterettes, I think, you know, parenting might not have been

Starting point is 00:24:03 something on the cards for me if I'd have been diagnosed earlier. So I think you know parenting might not have been something on the cards for me if I'd have been diagnosed earlier so I think from certain aspects I think being diagnosed earlier is is great but also I wouldn't want to change the fact that I've got kids they might be really difficult at times and I do struggle with parenting I love my kids with all of my heart but parenting and doing parenting things organizing picking up from school all of my heart, but parenting and doing parenting things, organising, picking up from school, all of those kind of things, struggle for me massively. Thank you for being so honest and so raw.

Starting point is 00:24:34 You know, I think that's really, really liberating for people who are tuning in to listen to this as well. You know, parenting is really tricky and it's, you know, I think the thing I find trickiest is I really want to do this right now um I really really want to finish this I really really want to finish this now I don't really want to stop what I'm doing to come and you know do whatever it is that you want to do that's what I struggle with so I like it's important for me to have time for my children but I want to have time for my children when I will have time for my children and parenting doesn't always work like that so you know it's I want to have my my

Starting point is 00:25:14 children to have the experience of mummy enjoying spending time with them and being with them but also because I work from home solely now today as we record is my three-year self-employment anniversary um so I'm now always in um because I do work from home and so when they're here sometimes mummy is still working but they just see it as me always working um and that's my story yeah when I was when I was in the NHS when mummy was working for three of those days she was out of the house and so they would just accepted that I was I was at work but when I'm here they see me as being here and it's it's it's blending that isn't it so it's tricky it's not an easy it's not an easy battle no it's it's always a hard balance and you know my my kids are very like they don't like going to after school club for example so

Starting point is 00:26:04 I kind of basically made a deal with them I was like right if you guys don't like going to after school club for example so I kind of basically made a deal with them I was like right if you guys don't want to go to after school club then I'll come and pick you up from school but when I come home I have to still carry on working because I need to do a full day's work and they are nine times out of ten very respectful of that but my daughter is a nightmare so I make sure that it's never a podcast recording it's never something that matters if I get interrupted and I always have to warn the people I've got calls with after I get back from the school run really sorry but my daughter probably will come in at this at some point and ask for biscuits because she just she can't stay away

Starting point is 00:26:40 yeah I hear you and yeah the work that I tend to do, we've got the same setup. So we have a zero childcare spend, which I know is a really nice position because I'm here. So I do it all. But yeah, after school, mummy will bring you a snack, but then you're welcome to sit on the sofa next to me as I work and do what I need to do. You know, I don't see clients at those times. So I don't see clients at those times so I don't see clients with with kids in the room or on the sofa but you know the bits like you know doing my zero um accounting stuff that takes time doesn't it and you know reconciling your invoices and checking your emails and I write quite a lot of stuff for the media and I know you do too so

Starting point is 00:27:22 you know that takes time and that tends to be the sort of things I'll be doing when the children are home yeah I mean I'm exactly the same um I had to do a an article yesterday um actually something slightly different to what I normally talk about as well which was quite nice so um so I don't don't talk about it that much on podcasts but I had postpartum psychosis when Ben was little um he was about eight weeks old he was born with um a compressed neck muscle so he cried non-stop for 10 weeks um he slept in 20 minute bursts and I was just so overwhelmed so sleep deprived and I started having hallucinations and I just went a bit crazy for a while and it was it was a very very scary situation but like that I got asked to do a um to do an article about that yesterday because it's mental health awareness month and I was writing

Starting point is 00:28:18 that and he and he like just distractions for me like especially weirdly since I've started taking my ADHD medication I can't get distracted because like I'm used to having a million trains of thought going around at all at all times and now I'm like taking my ADHD medication I've got one train of thought and if people come in from any from external I'm like it makes me really stressed and really like really uptight so like I've had to explain to my kids that mummy's brain's changing because she's, because she's got new medication and you know, the tablets I'm taking, you know, sometimes it might make me a bit snappy. And like, but they, they now know they're like, mummy, you're being snappy.

Starting point is 00:28:58 Stop it. I get told off, which is good because you know, sometimes we need to. Yeah. And I think that's probably one of the things you know I think there's a number of things I want to say here like when we were talking earlier when you were talking about actually if I'd known what I'd known what I've had children and for me it's if I'd have known what I think I know would I have ended up as a psychologist or would I have thought that I was somehow broken and not worthy of that you know would I have allowed myself to do everything that I do yeah would I have thought that I was somehow broken and not worthy of that you know would I have allowed myself to do everything that I do yeah would I have felt that I was as credible

Starting point is 00:29:29 um would I so I you know I did really pretty well at school um I think I'd have done even better if I'd had some accountability so for me the wheels fell off a bit in A-levels um because I was just chilling out and having some naps in the room. There wasn't anyone going, come on, Marianne, get that work done. Get that work done. You need to do that. And, you know, for biology, I did biology A level. All I had to do for each module was read a book that was probably A4, but was quite thin.

Starting point is 00:29:58 That's all I had to do for each module. And I probably would have got an A. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. And I got a D. And I think that's a real shame because I definitely was capable of it, you know, and actually the bits that I really liked, like I really, I perhaps could even have a go now. I'm not going to, cause it'd be boring, but the nitrogen cycle involving lightning and soil and all of that, like I, I, I knew it all like,

Starting point is 00:30:20 you know, because I found it fascinating um but if I had been recognized and someone had said right Marianne I can see that you're struggling for this I want you to do one chapter at a time and then I want you to write me a brief summary about it that would have been the difference that made the difference for me absolutely so the wheels fell off for me at college as well and university because I didn't have like I knew that if I didn't do my work, what are they going to do about it? They're not going to give me a detention, are they? Whereas at school there was there were consequences for not doing your work. And when I like the refectory was like the place where I lived and I went to college every day, but I didn't actually go to my lectures half the time. I'd like bum around, like just socialising because it was way more fun and i realized that

Starting point is 00:31:05 actually i did the wrong subjects so i was really good at languages and i should have done languages but instead i did english because my mom kind of made she didn't make me do it but it was like you have to do one academic subject and i did art i loved art but i was so weird as an artist that they didn't get me they just didn't understand me at all so I'm like putting down all this like weird probably futuristic like now you're thinking like you know you look at like the Tracey Emin stuff that was the kind of things that I was doing but it wasn't art because it wasn't traditional art um and I did textiles but like that wasn't really for me either I did media studies because I wanted to be

Starting point is 00:31:45 a radio presenter that was all I ever wanted to do and then when I went to university I joined the radio station I hyper focused on the radio station so much that I became the station manager I forgot I even did a degree um and then about four years in they were like Maddy you don't go here anymore you have to leave so I was like okay so I completely flunked out of university um ended up just getting into ridiculous amounts of debt because I got into a dopamine spending cycle um where I basically just to make myself happy I spent money on whatever I could and that was a really really bad cycle and I'm wondering if if I'd have not gone to university not been pushed down that route I'd gone and done a business apprenticeship or a marketing

Starting point is 00:32:32 apprenticeship something that was on the table for me would it have been different it's weird but you know I don't regret any step of my life because it's given me all of the life lessons that I've got today every single thing that I did has kind of built up to this moment. And now for the first time in my life, I actually feel like I'm successful because I know how to manage my brain, which is something that I've never known how to do before. And I always assumed that I was failing. Now I know that I'm actually rocking it for how good my brain is not not how good it is that's not me saying that like people who have got neurodivergent conditions don't have good brains but they work differently so now I know that I work differently and I run my business in a

Starting point is 00:33:17 different way it it's so game-changing I'm so pleased you've had that experience and I feel like we now need to pause for a joint sing of like this is my moment by Martine McCutcheon like I feel that you know being 42 as well I feel just strong and capable and able and I've been doing personal training for the last two and a half years and I just really like where I'm at right now. You know, the balance of the different types of work that I do, it just really suits me. Having slightly older children, age seven and ten, I think suits me as well. You know, I just, yeah, I like where I'm at right now.

Starting point is 00:33:56 And that's a really powerful thing to be able to say. And actually, you know, I'm imagining much younger Maddy, who actually was quite confused and lonely at times, you know, to be able to give her that sense that you're going to feel like this in your 40s is so powerful. I would never in a million years, if you just said to me, and weirdly, I looked at my yearbook the other day. And it's like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I just put influential at what I do how weird is that so I was like okay so not only am I an influencer I teach people how to be the go-to expert in their niche um and I'm a you know

Starting point is 00:34:35 somebody who actually people like to listen to um but I would never in a million years if you'd have said to me that I'd be doing what I do now I always thought like working in an office job something like sales I mean sales like I have learned a lot about sales in the in the process and like the jobs I've done before but my my career was so bumpy before I decided to be self-employed I didn't fit in anywhere in the workplace um I had no friends I was bullied um I I was an oversharer I didn't fit well into an office environment I I needed to work on my own so that I could give my brain some space to actually work um but if but if you'd have said to me years ago Maddy you will be in the press every single week you'll be on national radio you'll have a book deal in the process like you know I would have

Starting point is 00:35:24 gone no way there's no way I'm gonna write a book not in the process like you know I would have gone no way there's no way I'm gonna write a book not a chance in hell but here I am writing a book so yeah I never would have thought it well I'm so pleased that you are in such a good place right now and that yeah I'm excited to see what comes next for you. Could you tell our audience a little bit about where they can find you and what you do? Yeah, absolutely. So I refer to myself as a multi-potentialite. Basically, I do all of the things. As a what now?

Starting point is 00:35:56 Multi-potentialite. So I have two different businesses, but the thing that holds them all together is me. So my personal brand. So I've spent the last the last eight years being self-employed, growing a personal brand as a money specialist. I'm a bit different to everybody else because I talk about neurodiversity and money and how that shows up for different people. That's my niche. So I've grown as an expert in my niche in the money industry. But now I teach other people to do it as well. So whatever their niche is, I help them to get visible, I help them to get in the press, I help them to grow their social media and their followings. I do one to one coaching for business mentorship. So I've had a very interesting business

Starting point is 00:36:41 career, I have bought businesses, I've sold sold businesses but I've also had quite a fair few failed ones and those are the ones that have taught me everything that I need to know about business because they're the things that you know you don't want to make as a business owner so I now spend 50% of my time working either one-to-one with people or in my membership I've got a membership that helps neurodivergent entrepreneurs to get visible um i do um tiktok training courses once a month they're always free so if anyone wants any information come follow me and get get started on those and then my my other side is that i run an app called mad about money which is a community for neurodivergence to help them with money business well-being lifestyle and anything that relates back to their living situation

Starting point is 00:37:30 mad about money makes a lot more sense to me the name now actually I just that that passed me by but it's that double entendre isn't it yeah it is it is um and I didn't want to call it like anything that I wanted a bit of a touch of me but I didn't want to call it like anything that i wanted a bit of a touch of me but i didn't want to be the brand because i've made that mistake in the past where i've run a business and the brand has been all consuming and it's all been me but it's now it's one of my products that i that i have um it's a free to download app so if anyone's struggling with with neurodiversity or um money problems that it's an open inclusive lovely place to hang out because there's no judgment ever um it's all full of neurodivergence and people who understand

Starting point is 00:38:11 each other which is nice um but yeah that's that's kind of where where i where i grow and i started my tiktok channel mad about money official um about a year and a half ago and I show up every day I give tips on money I give tips on business I give tips on TikTok and the good thing about that is normally you'd be like but all of those things are all like really different things but I pull them together with my personality to make a personal brand and it just seems to work so amazing I'm pretty rubbish at TikTok so I'll make sure I come on one of my training courses I will I will um and I guess what I don't want our audience to to think as a as a finishing note really is that if they are recognizing that they might have some neurodiversity that they're not employable because actually that's not at all

Starting point is 00:39:05 what we're saying and actually what my experience of moving from job to job is that some people will be your tribe and will adore you and worship you and others may not get you and that's okay to just move on and move on to the next and wait for your tribe yeah so let me let me let me go into a little bit more detail about that i know it was short on time, but with my situation, it was always I didn't have the right support in the workplace. So there is a free grant called Access to Work, which helps to support people who are neurodivergent in the workplace to help them to stay in the workplace. Also as well, I do neurodiversity in the workplace training for managers who have neurodivergent staff or people who suspect that they're neurodivergent because it's about utilising the correct skills for the correct roles and supporting people with neurodivergent conditions so that they can actually enjoy being in the workplace. Nowadays, like I mean we're

Starting point is 00:40:02 talking 10 years ago that I was employed um back then there was no knowledge of neurodiversity in any way shape or form so I wasn't accepted in the workplace nowadays completely different story yeah there's been such a flexibility you know curve hasn't that really and yeah everything is about inclusivity now and you know I think it's long overdue you know and if we'd's long overdue, you know. And if we'd been even having to try to have these conversations 10 years ago, probably nobody would have listened. It would have been, oh, it's a fad.

Starting point is 00:40:32 It's like, it's silly. Like, it's just, you know. Same as mental health. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for your time. I hope that the rest of your journey with your early days of med continues to go well. I love the way I think part of me would be like a bit worried about what if my brain wasn't like like this like how have you got around that before we finish it's really interesting how much it changed and

Starting point is 00:41:02 especially as it has unmasked the the autism side um and it's also I think made my dyspraxia worse as well like I mean I've got a nickname with my group of friends Spilly Maddy because it's like who how many seconds can I be at a party before I spill something or trip over or knock over a table um it's made me so much worse but also like I think one of the things that I struggle with is people and soaking up people's energies because I'm a bit of an empath um so I've had to really really learn how to be around people again which is strange for me because I'm quite a sociable person from an ADHD perspective um my focus is so much better. My organisation is so much better.

Starting point is 00:41:53 But I don't take my meds at the weekends because I still need some time for my brain to be creative because otherwise I feel like it's turned everything off. Like the first week of taking my meds, I was sat in the car and I turned the radio off and I couldn't hear anything. And it was the weirdest, weirdest thing in the world. I turned the radio off and I couldn't hear anything and it was the weirdest weirdest thing in the world it was like silence and I've never had that in my entire life I have always got an inner monologue I've always got constant talking my inner monologues disappeared which is a really really weird adjustment and it's been weighing up the pros and cons of whether or not I actually like that or whether I don't like that um so I've kind of agreed with my doctors I take it in the morning

Starting point is 00:42:31 so I can get my focus in I can do my work but then I don't take my second dose which a lot of people do um so that I can get my creativity and my brain can start working um it also it helps me a lot with anxiety as well so I will carry on taking them but I'm also being really really hyper aware that it is changing me a little bit and I've said to all of my friends if it changes me to the point where I'm not maddy anymore you need to let me know and I'll come off them because I'm maddy I I am unstoppable, unique, inspiring, fun, energetic, all of these things. And if any of those things go away, then I need to not be on them. Thank you for sharing. You know, what we know is that there is a high percentage of people with neurodiversity in caring professions. So I think this will be really interesting listening for so many,

Starting point is 00:43:25 so many people. So thank you for spending your time with us so warmly. Please do come and follow Maddy. We will make sure that the links are on screen and in the show notes as well. Thank you again, Maddy. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much to our guest, Maddy. What an incredibly honest, thought-provoking, inspiring, compassionate discussion that was. I would love to know what your thoughts on this are. Would you like to see more conversations from people that have been diagnosed or had certain experiences of certain conditions? Do let me know. And yeah, has this evoked anything for you, for your own thinking, for your own experiences or for those around you? If you found this helpful, please do rate and review us on the podcast platform you're listening to. Or if you're on YouTube, please do

Starting point is 00:44:18 like and subscribe, drop me a comment. And one of the most helpful things you can do for the podcast, which will take you just one moment, is if you are listening on Spotify, if you are listening on Apple Podcasts, it's just to follow the show. It helps us immeasurably Trent everywhere. And you can also nip on in to the Aspiring Psychologist community free Facebook group. Come and discuss this episode there. Let me know what you think. And don't forget, we've got the Aspiring Psychologist membership, which you can access from just £30 a month, and it will help you to supercharge your chances of shooting for your psychology dreams. And we've also got the Clinical Psychologist Collective and the Aspiring Psychologist Collective, which get wonderful reviews too. If you would like your voice at the start and the end of any of these podcasts then do let me know and we can

Starting point is 00:45:26 help sort out an audio testimonial and that would be so appreciated thank you for being part of my world thank you for trusting me to help you in your journey in mental health and stay kind to yourselves and i will see you for our next episode which will be available from 10 a.m. on Saturdays on YouTube and from 6 a.m. as an MP3 on Mondays. Take care. Be kind. If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guide. With this podcast at your side, you'll be on your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent. My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological wellbeing practitioner. I read the Clinical

Starting point is 00:46:29 Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself so if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay but trust me you will not put the book down once you start.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Adult ADHD, Diagnosis and Assessment with Maddy Alexander-Grout

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