The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Becoming a Clinical Psychologist: My Story - Dr Marianne Trent

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi, my name is Beth and I'm a psychological wellbeing practitioner from Newcastle. I just wanted to say the biggest thank you to the contributors of the clinical psychologist collective book. I've enjoyed reading this so much and loved having an insight into the range of backgrounds and experiences people have prior to applying for the doctorate. And it's been really interesting seeing the potential barriers to the application as well and how I can try and work around this. I really started to doubt myself and whether I was good enough to apply for the clinical psychology doctorate but this has really given me the confidence boost that I needed to give it a shot so the biggest thank you ever.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Ever wondered what it really takes to become a clinical psychologist? In this episode I share my personal journey, the highs, the heartbreak and the hope as I read aloud my chapter from the book The Clinical Psychologist Collective for the very first time. Hope you find it super useful. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I'm Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist. But let me tell you, it's been quite the journey to get me to be the clinical psychologist that you do indeed see before you. And I know, you know, I've turned my professional hand to supporting aspiring psychologists because I loved being one, but also because I recognized just how challenging it can indeed be and is to pursue a career as a qualified and regulated

Starting point is 00:01:34 HCPC psychologist. So I specify there because I know that not all people listening to this podcast are actually wanting to be clinical psychologists and I know that some people are already qualified psychologists and so we've got such a broad listenership but I thought the one thing I haven't yet done is to read aloud from this book and I've never done an audiobook of the clinical psychologist collective and I know that's not always ideal but for me because it's all written by lots of different voices, for me, it would need to be that person's voice to be authentic.

Starting point is 00:02:12 And so, you know, because some of the stories have been written under a pseudonym, I've never done that. It's not something that I've managed to find a way to do and also, you know, remote sound quality and microphones and all of that jazz. But I wanted to let you hear my story. I wrote this story in 2021 and I don't know if I've actually read it since. So it's kind of going to be a nice trip down memory lane. And yeah, I might well talk along the way with kind of stories and anecdotes that resonate with me, or it might end up just being a read through. I don't really know. But whatever happens, I hope you find it useful. If you are watching on YouTube, please do subscribe, please do drop

Starting point is 00:02:57 a comment. If you're listening on Spotify, you can drop Q&As there. You can also rate the show. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, you, you are very special because you get to rate and review the show. So please do because it helps demonstrate that this podcast is really worth listening to and gets it pushed out to a wider audience. And wherever you're listening or watching, the kindest thing you can do for any podcaster or content creator is to subscribe or follow their show. So with no further ado, let's pick up my copy of The Clinical Psychologist Collective, which usually lives behind me on this desk, but today is in my hands. And before we get into my story, I'd like to read you the very powerful dedication.

Starting point is 00:03:41 This book is dedicated to the memory of Dr Stephen Wright, a wonderful clinical psychologist who I'm sad I never got to meet. We often spoke via Facebook and his wit and professionalism were so admired by me and others within our network. He was passionate about supporting children, young people and their families with their mental health needs. At the time of his unexpected death from vaccine-induced thrombosis with thrombocytopenia, brackets V-I-T-T, in January 2021, he was days away from starting a new role with Great Ormond Street Hospital and he also worked in private practice in his business, Oakes Child and Adolescent Psychology.

Starting point is 00:04:26 He is survived by his wife Charlotte and their two young sons, Isaac and Elijah. Charlotte and Stephen met a few years before he started training, and they had their first child in 2013, shortly before starting on the course in 2014. He qualified in 2017. He is also much missed by his parents Anne and Richard and his sister Sarah, brother-in-law Sam and his nephew

Starting point is 00:04:52 Finlay. Dr. Stephen Christopher Wright 1988 to 2021. Chapter 26, Marianne's story, owning our story. I honestly think I have the best job in the world, and sometimes I have to pinch myself to reflect upon the fact that I get paid for doing stuff, which makes me really happy. When I was studying my undergrad course at Glamorgan University,

Starting point is 00:05:22 I actually found the module on clinical psychology pretty boring. It seemed to only be about data and neuropsych testing, and with only theory and textbooks to look at, it all felt a bit dry. I love learning from experience and learning about people and hearing them speak. For me, it just didn't appeal. I don't even really recall having heard of the job title clinical psychologist until the week before my undergrad finals. We all traipsed into the lecture theatre for a chat on different career options post-graduation. One of the lecturers mentioned what a clinical psychologist did and how it was super hard to get into training.

Starting point is 00:06:06 She said we probably shouldn't bother and should do something else instead. Well, that was enough for me. From that point forwards, that's the career I wanted. The thing is, I know that I'm not alone in that either. I'm in a psychologist Facebook group of over 3,000 people and in a recent post surveying why people got into the profession, a staggeringly high number of us said that part of our motivation for becoming a clinical psychologist was because we had been told just how difficult it was. Seriously, what does that say about our dogged determination, our desire to prove ourselves,

Starting point is 00:06:48 maybe even our masochism, perfectionism and ego? Well, there's a doctoral thesis topic for you if you ever needed one. I think it's interesting that at the time I see there were 3,000 people in that Facebook group, and I've just had a little look now and it's six and a half thousand and it's a group for psychologists in private practice and it seems that since 2021, there's been quite the explosion of people

Starting point is 00:07:15 either starting their private practice or suddenly surveying their options. Let's get back to 2021, Marianne. Speaking of ego, I gained my first AP post, that means assistant psychologist by the way, at St. Andrews Healthcare, and they had the coolest name badges. They were gold enamel, and they said my name and job title,

Starting point is 00:07:40 Marianne Duran, assistant psychologist. Honestly, wearing that little beauty for the first time and checking myself out in the mirrored walls on one of the wards in the cool new Assistant Psychologist clothes I had bought to compliment the gold badge remains one of my proudest psychology moments to date. I wish I still had that badge.

Starting point is 00:08:02 I wonder where it is. I think they made me give it back when I left. Maybe I should make myself a gold badge now. Probably wouldn't look nearly as snazzy teamed with my working from home pyjama bottoms though. The thing is, I think I'm probably much less of an arse now I'm qualified than I was when I was an assistant. One of my pet hates is when people refer to themselves as psychologists when actually they've only done an undergrad. I wish psychologist was a proper protected title so that everyone knew they were in safe hands.

Starting point is 00:08:36 Confession time. I wonder whether it irks me so much because actually that used to be me. I loved chatting to people and telling them that I was a psychologist when actually I was an assistant psychologist. These days I'm proud to be a psychologist but I don't tend to tell anyone who will listen that I am one. I think there's something to be said about the imposter curve. The less we know the more naive we are to this. And as we get more experienced, we become more aware of everything we don't know, and we are more likely to stay within our limits.

Starting point is 00:09:13 So, in 2007, whilst I was completing my form, it's fair to say that I wasn't having the best time of life. My friend Kara refers to this stage in life as that where I mainly ate carrots and hummus. At the start of August I decided to separate from a long-term partner which had not been easy. A few weeks later whilst on my way to my first ever boot camp class, and then there's a little footnote, I never did make it to the bootcamp class and never been to one since either. It wasn't meant to be, I guess. Although, as an aside, I have now been

Starting point is 00:09:52 to several bootcamp-style classes. So this is the growth that can occur for you in four years. So let's go back to before the little footnote so that this makes sense. A few weeks later, whilst on my way to my first ever boot camp class, a chap in a jugular crashed into me in my beautiful Yaris. My car was written off. I got whiplash in my neck and back and almost immediately after I started studying for my masters with Newman University College. They're now just called Newman University. This was all

Starting point is 00:10:25 whilst working full-time and being in pain whilst striving for my first ever NHS assistant post. I was applying for jobs all over the country. I recall at one stage crying on the stairs at home the day before an assistant interview in Nottingham. I was in pain. It was in the days before I owned a sat nav and I wasn't even sure it was a job I wanted anyway, but I really wanted it for the form. My mum, clearly a bit shocked, actually did pull it out the bag and say, if it's too much, then just cancel the interview. Don't go. So that's what I did and instead spent my day off doing a bit of R&R, and likely for

Starting point is 00:11:06 me at the time probably listening to a bit of R&B. So other than listening to Chris Brown and Neo, it's fair to say that it wasn't an easy time in my life, but it did give me a lot of time to focus on my form. I recall laying half slouched on my parents' sofa with my laptop propped on my knee and stomach for what seemed like any spare minute of the day in September, October and November. And then there's another little footnote. Genuinely, this is the way I'm sitting right now except now I own the sofa. I was a woman on a mission with my form. This was my third time applying but the first I thought I might

Starting point is 00:11:45 stand a chance. It was the year that I just did me. I didn't show it to anyone. I wanted to make sure it sounded like me. So many, many times over, for each revision I made, I read the form aloud to myself. I'm sure I was quite annoying to my mum, who was watching Coronation Street or whatever on the other sofa. And another footnote, editorial comment. I'm shocked and even a little bit disappointed that I've gotten this far into your story and you've reigned yourself in with the swearing. None of your famous one-liners that I've grown to love either. Readers will just have to listen to your lives to experience the best of Marianne. Never a dull moment with you. Being your editorial assistant makes me so happy. Interestingly, I never swear on the podcast because then I'd have to mark myself as X-rated,

Starting point is 00:12:35 and that limits my reach. So you guys might know that I actually do enjoy a little bit of a swear word every now and then. My rule was that if I felt embarrassed saying it aloud or if it wasn't the way I'd actually speak in person, I did rein in my urge to swear. Then it wasn't going in. And then another footnote, for projects like this one I still write in that style now too. If it's the way I'd speak, I'll start sentences with and and all sorts and I'm sure I'm a nightmare for my editorial assistant Chrissie. As a result, when it was eventually time to stand in the post office queue and dispatch it, I was absolutely thrilled with my form.

Starting point is 00:13:14 Whilst far from ideal, this time in my life did turn out to be a useful reflecting point though. Seven months later, after the the accident a fair bit of Osteopathy and Pilates and lots of partying with my assistant and non psychology friends later my back and my heart were in much finer shape. It was in my personal suitability interview for the course that I was asked to reflect on a difficult time in my life and that was it. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable. They need to see and to know that you can be human and that if required you are able to use appropriate help seeking too. When we deny the story it defines us. When we own the story we can write

Starting point is 00:13:59 a brave new ending. That's a little quote by Brené Brown. I was in the fortunate position that I was offered two places for doctoral training. I do often think now that if I had picked the other course that my life would be entirely different. Genuinely, some of my consideration for which course to choose at the time weighed up the fact that at interview one course had profited a selection of my favourite herbal teas for my delectation whilst the other had made me cry. Which did I pick? Simple. I'm a martyr. I picked the crying. Just kidding. I of course picked the course which felt like it was a bit of me from the moment I arrived. But had the course where I'd sobbed in my car as soon as I got back to the end of the day been my only offer then I would have accepted it and likely been on Cloud9 to do

Starting point is 00:14:51 so. The year I successfully applied was the year where the Bristol course was cancelled. I had done my Bristol selection test from home, been invited to do another test in Bristol and then been invited to interview. Then, due to a misunderstanding with the way a new university were planning on running the course as solely academic with no placements, without warning, the plug was pulled.

Starting point is 00:15:16 This was because a taught-only method was not gonna churn out the type of clinical psychologists we needed to be, ones who were effective and practiced at being with clinical patients and clients. In turn, hearts were broken for people whose only interviews that year were on the Bristol course. I really fancied Bristol and had the course gone ahead and I'd been successful at interview,

Starting point is 00:15:41 I might well have ended up there as it was close to a number of my close friends from my undergrad days which would have just been lovely. As it turned out my herbal tea course was Coventry Amaric and I'm delighted to say that I absolutely loved training. I felt like I went into it with my eyes open. Sometimes it would be hard, I would need to juggle my social life, academic life and placement commitments and then at times it would be hard, I would need to juggle my social life, academic life and placement commitments, and then at times it would be pressured and stressful. Sometimes it was, but largely I found that by using my study days pretty much exclusively for study, that until my thesis

Starting point is 00:16:15 rolled around, hand on heart, I didn't do any work in the evenings or weekends. I think that what was useful for me personally and professionally was that our course gave out pass or fail marks for academic work. There were no percentages, there was no direct way to compare scores across the cohort and so, as a result of this, my perfectionistic tendencies could be chucked out the window entirely. I aimed to pass and for all but one assignment in the three years, this is exactly what I did and that was good enough for me. It did get a bit grim in my viva, but that all turned out marvellously in the end too and happily I still managed to graduate with

Starting point is 00:16:57 my cohort. Standing in Coventry Cathedral with my coat of many colours and my funny squashy hat was genuinely a wonderfully proud moment, almost as good as that gold badge. I love reflecting that my dad was there watching because fit and healthy at the time, sadly just over five years later he died. I had been in the very fortunate position that he and my mum had always supported my career. Although it's fair to say, I don't think they understood what it was. My mum really wanted me and my brother to go to higher education so that we would have different chances in life. My dad was a boiler man and I could not have been more proud of him but two days before he died, I was holding his hand and he said to me, I wish I'd tried harder at school. The idea that my kind, sweet, palliatively unwell,

Starting point is 00:17:49 71 year old father was having regrets of this kind was so sad making for me. But on the other hand it's probably a life well lived if that's as big as your end of life regrets get. And then as a little footnote, there's more of this story in the grief collective – stories of life, loss, learning to heal. So do check this out if you'd like more. My top tips. And there's another little footnote. Dr Robbo, if you ever read this, I can imagine

Starting point is 00:18:17 you finding this VIZ inspired title very amusing. Have loads of fun. Honestly. Please do. It helps us to weather the storm. I have just the fondest memories of my assistant years. Many of my assistant friends are still some of my closest friends now. And two, even ended up in my cohort too. Masters Study In 2007, I started a distance learning part-time masters course with Newman whilst I was also working full-time as an assistant across three busy inpatient wards for St Andrews. If it's a possibility for

Starting point is 00:19:05 you I would say that distance learning part-time masters are an excellent way to build academic experience because it allows you to work full-time at the same time. If you have kids it would be more of a struggle too of course. Although as I am learning with my book writing projects when required I can work when my kids are sleeping. At the time when doing my masters we had to travel in for exams and one Saturday of teaching per module but I think in-person teaching was later reduced to be more inclusive for distance students. Due to the appeal of the flexible nature of the course there was a lady on my cohort from Ireland so do check it out if you'd like to add some more strings to your academic bow. I found it invaluable because it taught us how to plan research and how

Starting point is 00:19:51 to pick it apart and discuss it analytically. These were strategies I then used for assistant training and qualified interviews too. This might be a really great aside to tell you about the aspiring psychologist membership as well because research is a real strength of what we do and a lot of the skills that you can get from being on a masters you can also get for a fraction of the cost on the Aspiring Psychologist membership. So please do head along to my website www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk where you can learn more about the Aspiring Psychologist membership which you can join from just £30 a month with no minimum term.

Starting point is 00:20:30 People often ask when is the right time for me to join? I would say it's probably post undergraduate degree when you're perhaps looking for your first assistant psychologist post or PWP post or support worker role and even if you're already working in those roles as well. If you're starting to apply for doctoral training courses, maybe even if you have interviews. Basically, I'd say it's anytime post-grad because we can absolutely meet you where you are and people will get different things from the content based on what stage of their learning journey they are at. So yeah if you think it might be for you why not check out the website. If you've got any questions reach out to me as well. Okay back to the story.

Starting point is 00:21:18 CV gap plugging the creative way number one. I was desperate to get my foot in the door and get my first AP post. I took 10 days of annual leave from my social rehabilitation work with physically disabled adults and sorted out an honorary post one day a week spread over four months and it was enough. It gave me a clean psych as a reference and opened the door for the first time to being behind the clinic room door and discussing psychological terms, concepts, and theories with a real life clinical psychologist.

Starting point is 00:21:52 I was hooked. Whilst it meant less annual leave that year, I think this was, for me at least, an excellent way of gaining experience without necessarily having to lose any money. So do bear that in mind. The unit loved having me too because assistant psychologists are such a fantastic resource and they'd never had one before. I seem to recall after I left

Starting point is 00:22:15 they did go on to then employ one too. So it paves the way and shows just how useful and essential assistants are. I finished this post in the summer, and by October, I was starting my first paid assistant post. There is another video you can watch or listen to about the ethics of honorary assistant psychologist posts, so please do check that out if you get a chance. CV gap plugging, the creative way number two. By the time I was six years post undergrad,

Starting point is 00:22:44 I had experience working with physically disabled adults, working age adults, older adults and forensic clients. I'd also had a wicked time traveling around the world for eight months and temping in offices and doing home caring to fund it. Another little footnote, no time or space to discuss home caring here, but I loved that job. Such a privilege and actually laughed a lot with my clients, but also taught me a lot about dignity, respect and trust. Also gave me lots of opportunities to wonder at 3am in the morning whether I'd remembered to lock my clients door. I had zero experience with children and young people. I reached out to a local Brownie group and there followed two years

Starting point is 00:23:25 of the most incredible learning and fun experiences as honorary Wise Owl. It was so helpful to learn about the normal scope of children rather than just the clinical aspect I would later see. I could also totally fit one evening a week into my schedule too. Being able to speak about these children in my secure training unit interview for young people totally bagged me my first NHS assistant post too. So it worked. CV Gap Plugging The Creative Way 3 Reach out to your local NHS trust and ask if there are any research meetings or groups

Starting point is 00:24:00 or any key researchers you can be put in touch with. I learned a lot of useful stuff for my thesis by going along to research meetings whilst I was training. If you don't yet have research experience, you could also find some honorary stuff which will look great on your CV too. When I was an assistant, in exchange for being able to put honorary research assistant on my form, I helped to trainee out with some of her bits and pieces for data collection too. Create and count your publications. When I was striving for training, no one in my department was free to present their research at an upcoming international conference in Nottingham. So I volunteered and they were delighted I had. And so I did it. I put it on my form as it

Starting point is 00:24:44 counts as a publication. I also wrote a vaguely amusing post-conference report and submitted it to a journal. It was accepted and published and you've guessed it, it counted as a publication. I also offered to write up the research for a journal because the qualified staff were struggling to find the time and then ended up as third author for the project. Think about ways you can gain publication experience which might involve thinking outside the box and asking for opportunities. Can you get involved with a book or research? You do you. Be you. You're great. Reflect and make sure the form sounds like you and shows your unique skills, talents and interests.

Starting point is 00:25:26 Consider using section subheadings so that your form makes sense and flows well. In forms I have reviewed, I often find that answering questions in massive full sentences is a waste of space. Be concise but easy to understand. Don't use fancy words which mean nothing. Don't leave the relevant experience section blank. Fill the space on your form but make sure it's easy to read. I also prefer to read in a present tense. You've not lost the skills just because you're no longer doing that job.

Starting point is 00:25:55 These are some of the observations I made in a form I reviewed last year. This is page 6 in the application and I currently feel I know nothing about you or what interests you or what makes you unique. I feel this whole section falls a bit flat. Try not to just tick boxes for the sake of it. Be interested and interesting. It's often a good idea to get someone qualified to review your form. It's much better to get this feedback from someone before you submit your form. It's much better to get this feedback from someone before you submit your form, rather than it be thought by someone screening your form at your dream course. No one is coming to save you. Reach out to people, create opportunities for

Starting point is 00:26:37 yourself, chance it. If you don't ask, you're much less likely to get. You literally have nothing to lose and potentially everything to gain. Practice interviews. I absolutely cringed at the time and definitely didn't want to do it but in 2008 my NHS supervisor Charlotte did a mock interview for me ahead of my two clinical interviews. It was fantastically helpful and got my rabbit in the headlights moments out of the way in a supportive and risk-free situation. This is something I've done for a number of assistants too and they all universally cringe but all say it was helpful in retrospect. Speaking of cringing, Charlotte was also present for my first ever therapy session with a young person. Honestly, it was dreadful, so awkward. It was in a forensic unit and the young person was far cooler than me.

Starting point is 00:27:27 To both Charlotte and the young person, thanks and sorry. I'm now much better at therapy but couldn't have got there without either of you. Lastly, follow your dreams. The other day my eight-year-old son asked me a question. Mummy, when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? A doctor and a journalist, I replied. Oh, but that's not your job now. You don't read the news. Well, no, baby, but I was on it once.

Starting point is 00:27:56 And I love that I help people to feel better in person, but also through my writing. I really hope that this book, and maybe even my own story have been helpful for you. And then what's quite fun is there's emails and reflections that I gave to the authors who contributed stories. So I sent myself a future email. Email to Dr. Marianne Trent on the 31st of August 2022. Well, hello future Marianne.

Starting point is 00:28:28 Currently you are literally hours away from clicking publish on your second book, Baby. It has been quite the project and one which has been wonderful to be part of. It's also been one which has seen your team grow to include an editorial assistant too. Currently, however, you're wondering whether anyone will buy the new book, whether they'll find it helpful, and hoping that the contributors all like the way it looks when it's done.

Starting point is 00:28:53 So how has the last year been for you Marianne of 2022? Have you been able to achieve the goals you set yourself? Did the other book you've already made a start on get published? Did you manage to make time in your diary for the media stuff you so enjoy? How's the pandemic situation? Currently both of your team have COVID-19 and here's hoping that by the time you receive this email that things are feeling a bit less risky on a daily basis. This level of threat is hard to sustain and we weren't geared up for it as humans.

Starting point is 00:29:24 Currently your kids are both a week away from going back to school and you're already practicing the dance you will do on that first morning when you get home with empty hands. It's not been an easy 18 months for anyone and you're absolutely doing it well enough. Keep doing what you do, even on the days you feel like no one is watching or can't be bothered. People are watching and like what you do and you have the messages from some of them to prove it. Go forth and do great things or just get really good at sitting on the sofa playing homescapes and gardenscapes. So that brings me to the end of my chapter in the clinical psychologist collective.

Starting point is 00:30:03 What did you think? I would love to know your thoughts. Please, if you're watching on YouTube, please do drop me a like and a comment. Let me know whether it resonated with you, what it evoked, what it brought up for you. And if you haven't already read the clinical psychologist collective,

Starting point is 00:30:20 you can go along to Amazon by clicking the link in the description or the show notes and you can grab your own copy. People have said it's really really helpful for them in upping their game in reflective writing. If you have already read the book I would be so grateful if you would consider dropping me a review on Amazon or Goodreads. If you are an aspiring psychologist and would like some more free advice, please do come along to my website www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk where you can download your free psychology This is the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Dredd. Hello, my name is Veronica Kasova. I live in Edinburgh and I just graduated with a Masters in Psychology of Mental Health. Marian recommended me the Clinical Psychologist Collective when I was networking on LinkedIn and I must say I love it. It

Starting point is 00:31:46 is one of a kind. It's like a window into the lives of people on the path of becoming a psychologist. The stories are unique, honest and filled with a kind of intangible wisdom only personal storytelling can uncover. A common thread in the stories I valued most was to be compassionate not only with others but with myself too. Also not fixating on becoming a psychologist but enjoying life, growth and the final results will come as a byproduct. Marianne thank you for taking the time to collate all the stories. The book is a true gem and I think every aspiring psychologist should have a copy on their shelf. Thank you.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Becoming a Clinical Psychologist: My Story - Dr Marianne Trent

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