The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Community interventions, human connection and being a black male in Psychology with Jonathan Padi

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

Starting point is 00:00:32 the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up in today's episode, I am joined by my guest, Jonathan Paddy, who is an assistant

Starting point is 00:01:07 psychologist living and working in London. We talk through so many great topics, including trauma, community psychology, and his experiences of wanting to see more black male psychologists in the profession and how he goes about supporting and encouraging people to come forward and be part of a really encouraging aspiring community hope you'll find today's episode so useful if you're looking to become a psychologist then let this be your guide. With this podcast at your side, you'll be on your way to being qualified.

Starting point is 00:01:55 It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. You might well be listening to this when it's released, which means we are in the middle of application season for educational psychology and for clinical psychology. And yeah, if you would like some more advice or support or guidance, please do check out the free Compassionate Q&A replays, which you can find on my YouTube channel, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do please bear in mind there's the Aspiring Psychologist Collective book and the Clinical Psychologist Collective book too, which get wonderful reviews and can be really normalizing and validating. And today's guest and I are talking all about that sense of being validated or being seen and feeling like you're part of something. And that's something that those books and my own Aspiring Psychologist membership does really well. But it's a really, really interesting conversation. I am joined by

Starting point is 00:03:21 Jonathan Paddy, who's an assistant psychologist, and I hope you'll find it really interesting. I'd love to know your thoughts on this episode. Please do connect with me on social media. I'm Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. And do come and hang out with me on the free Facebook group, the Aspiring Psychologist Community with Dr. Marianne Trent. If you find this content helpful, please do like, subscribe, share it on socials. That would be wonderful. And drop the odd comment in here and there too would be fabulous. Anyway, I will look forward to catching up with you on the other side of this episode and I hope you find it useful. Hi, my name is Jonathan Paddy and I'm a guest on

Starting point is 00:04:06 the podcast episode you're about to listen to. When Marianne and I recorded this episode we didn't realise that it was going to come out during Black History Month and so we haven't mentioned it in the podcast at all so I thought it was important to come on and just speak about it very quickly before we listen to the episode. So Black History Month is a month in which we actively try to centre the Black experience, something that I think is incredibly important. We've managed to do that serendipitously in this episode. I think it's really important to have these conversations about the experience of Black men, of Black people and other minoritised groups.

Starting point is 00:04:35 But these conversations need to be also had outside of these specified months. I think if we consider the lack of diversity within clinical psychology as a profession, so both in terms of the staff members and the clients that we see, it's really important to discuss how we can do the work to become a more equitable profession and I think that includes considering the power that we all hold and to use that to support people from minoritized communities anyway and thank you so much for having me on the podcast and I really hope that you enjoyed this episode. Hi just want to welcome along our guest for today, Jonathan Paddy. Hi, Jonathan. Hi, thanks for having me. Thank you for saying yes. And we got chatting on LinkedIn

Starting point is 00:05:12 and we'll come to what we got chatting about. But firstly, I think it's always really interesting for our audience to learn a little bit about you and your psychology passions and career um what first turned your head in the direction of psychology donathan yeah that's a good question um i mean i started at a level so it's just a choice that we had at a level and i thought this seems like it's about people i'm interested in people and so and so i went for that um and just found it really really interesting really and i took that on and did that university and i actually didn't didn't want to do clinical psychology at all and going into university had a few lectures on it and really didn't didn't want to do it and it turned out i just had been misinformed really so my lectures were really diagnostic based like um yeah we look at the

Starting point is 00:06:11 um dsm and yeah the diagnostic manual and kind of trying to diagnose people explicitly and i was like i kind of want to do a bit more than that really. And as I got to find out a bit more about psychology, clinical psychology specifically, I was like, oh, actually I do really like that. I am really interested. And then I think personally, I had, there's some things going on in my life, my friends' lives where their mental health

Starting point is 00:06:42 was really affected. And at the time we didn't really think about it as a mental health difficulty but just some tough times going on for that person and the more I had some psychological language and knowledge and reflecting on that I was I don't know just really interested in trying to support people in that situation especially who didn't have the language or weren't able to to name it and term it and term it that yeah great and yeah I think I don't know what they're teaching in universities but I certainly had a module on clinical psychology as part of my degree and it was so boring and it was taught I think by a clinical psychologist but it was so boring. And it was taught, I think, by a clinical psychologist, but it was so unengaging and one sided and flat.

Starting point is 00:07:29 And I definitely didn't look forward to those lectures. And I definitely wasn't thinking, I can't wait to be a clinical psychologist. It was only when I think it was the same lady was stood on stage in the final weeks of my third year and was telling us more about the actual job and then said oh it's so difficult to get onto I wouldn't recommend it it's really competitive I was then like I give that a go then um but yeah why aren't they being a bit more representative about what us clin psychs actually do and how amazing this is as a career and I guess that's part of why I do this podcast really is to shed a light on the different things that are going on in the world of clinical psychology because I honestly believe that we're in the best best job in the world and you know you're a little bit further ahead in your career but I love that you're you're looking ahead to where you want to be as well yeah yeah I mean it's interesting that you

Starting point is 00:08:30 say that and you had a lecturer say that it's competitive and you shouldn't go for it I think it seems like a lot of people have had that that spiel from a lecturer or someone senior to them at some point it is competitive I'm finding that very much so but I still think it's worth it's worth going for for sure I think it's important it's needed it really is it really is and we need such a range of different people um within this sphere you know so that we're offering representative services but also so we're we're being able to feed in our own rich experiences just before we met we were we're speaking about you've lived kind of all over the country really and had a very different

Starting point is 00:09:17 upbringing because of that um and i think you're now living in london um but you know absolutely we should be having you know people that haven't just had you know the same experience um you know it's really important stuff and and I know that's um that's partly what we're going to be talking about as well but before we go on to that if we could have a bit of a chat about what you're doing now so you're an assistant psychologist at the moment yeah yeah so I'm currently an assistant psychologist um I work in a high intensity user team so there's a few of them around the country but um I guess for those who maybe haven't heard of it um we essentially help people who present to A&E quite frequently or ring a London ambulance quite frequently as well, usually for some kind of unmet need, whether it's mental health, social, physical health, usually a combination of all three, and try and support them.

Starting point is 00:10:16 So our team is made up of psychiatric liaison nurses, some psychology, and a little bit of psychiatrist time as well but yeah that's what I do currently great I remember reading something it was a long time ago it might even have been in the early stages of my qualified life so probably about 12 years ago talking about the the spend and the cost that's indicated in people who do regularly call the emergency services when actually their needs are not emergency based and it was staggering it was staggering and it obviously it overstretches an already overstretched system can you tell us about you know in case people are why can't you just go to ambulance you know why can't you just go to hospital could you tell us a few a bit more information about why why that's not

Starting point is 00:11:10 the best place for somebody who's having you know an existential crisis or something they can't sort out I know it might sound um you know quite simple but I try to make this podcast standalone really so that people don't need to go off and google stuff so are you happy explaining a little bit more about that Jonathan? Yeah yeah I can I can have a go um so I think I guess to to say yeah to start off I think people should use A&E if they feel like they need to I think that's really important that's one of the things that we we say to a lot of our our clients and if you feel unwell and you feel like you need support from any go um in terms of addressing what you're saying about the the cost there is yes significant cost attached to people

Starting point is 00:11:56 frequently calling um emergency services that's that's definitely true and we see the numbers for that. I think you wanted me to touch on why maybe it's not ideal to be calling the London Anglican as often as some people do. I think it's really difficult to tell people not to do that. I find it quite difficult to do that because usually what we see is there's been an unmet need or people have falling through the crack somewhere so that they're just trying to seek support and show that they need they need help i think maybe a way that could help that is to maybe fund services or to um i guess provide more high intensity user teams across the country that could maybe intercept and help people and um catch those people earlier really

Starting point is 00:12:45 I think I find it quite hard to tell people not to not to do that at all and does that answer your question it does yeah you've done a really nice job then as I was listening to you I was thinking about a book that I'm reading at the moment it's called A Man Called Ove I don't know if you've read it it's um it's set in in Sweden and it's about a little man who lives by himself. And I don't think it's going to be much of a spoiler to say that in the first chapter, he's trying to end his own life because he's not having a very nice time. And as the chapters unfold, he becomes more and more immersed in the community and in his local connections. And what is really wonderful about it is that community psychology feel.

Starting point is 00:13:34 And actually, what I think we get quite often in services is quite often people are just lonely or they're not being able to find a purpose. They're not being able to find a purpose, they're not being able to find where they fit. And I think there's definitely how we, you know, include people in society so that they do feel that they've got a function and so that they feel, I don't know, like there's a point in them existing and that we're relying on other people, we're part of something. And, you know, I think when we feel disconnected from others, and even in especially living in cities, sometimes you don't even know your neighbor, you know, and you might be suffering similar struggles as a parent, or, you know, even somebody living independently, or as a widow, experiences of grief and trauma.

Starting point is 00:14:28 And we just don't get a chance to to know that. And so, yeah, I'm I'm really excited about any initiative to kind of think about community psychology and starting people to be able to have conversations. So just before we hit record, I was telling you that I'd been to an open evening for a secondary school yesterday. And I really liked what they were saying that actually they put on events that are not just for pupils, not just for prospective parents and pupils, they put on community events. That's something I really like about our primary school as well, because it is an opportunity to get together, to do something different, to start conversations, to start connections. And, you know, I'm all for that.

Starting point is 00:15:13 Yeah, that sounds really great. is that you're trying to sort out people's problems in a way that negates and bypasses emergency services, which are always going to have a higher cost per minute or a higher cost, I don't know quite how it's priced up, but a higher cost and more of a planned and responsive approach to what you're doing but it sounds like the work you're doing with your clients or your patients is very different from from person to person yeah yeah very much so i think there's a huge spectrum um of people that we see so there's people on one end who are coming to um amy quite frequently for things that we can help with. I don't want to say they're simple, but they're easy for us to solve because we can mobilise the system in a way to support them.

Starting point is 00:16:13 We do have people at the other end of the spectrum where it gets really, really difficult for us to help them. We're a very, very small team. There's not many of us. And we're one of the biggest um teams high intensity user teams in the in the country i think yeah so these people struggle with significant mental health difficulties and social difficulties so that might include um not having a fixed abode and so that might be really difficult for them as well as some physical health difficulties and so they could have a broken leg, for example, or an infection somewhere. So people have a combination of these things, which are relatively complex,

Starting point is 00:16:51 and you have to work really hard to mobilize another hepatology team or the, some other team, orthopedic teams, sometimes even A&E to try and help these people. And it can get really, really complicated. But I think we're doing some really good and interesting work things I've never really done before so yeah every day is it's very different. It sounds brilliant and I from knowing what I know about people and knowing what I know about trauma I'm guessing there's a lot of trauma running through a lot of the work that you do, even if it's not something that the client would necessarily describe as trauma.

Starting point is 00:17:30 I think when we hear stories and we we know about their upbringing, trauma recently and how difficult it is for people, how difficult these stories are and how difficult these lives are. To us, I guess, they're stories of people that we're trying to help and support, but these are people's experiences and people's lives and trying to pay attention to that and trying to help them as best we can through it I think yeah one thing I was just going to say is that I don't think people

Starting point is 00:18:09 not everyone likes using the word trauma and so it's trying to be really careful about how we bring that to the table yeah yeah that's an important consideration and when I worked in inner city Birmingham there was lots and lots of different cultures and lots and lots of different languages and lots and lots of different understandings of mental health and what that means, whether it's stigma, whether it's embraced. And I used to work with many different interpreting kind of interpreters for for supporting the clients to engage. Is that something you find that you are doing quite a lot in your role, Jonathan? So not as much, actually, which is surprising. We're in an area where there's a lot of people from Bangladesh.

Starting point is 00:18:57 So I would expect to be using interpreters a bit more. But so far in my role, I haven haven't as yet I'm not exactly sure yeah that that does surprise me um for it for especially for a London service it was certainly in Birmingham I would say sometimes as many as a third of my clients were probably um using interpreters I would say um do you think it's about well I guess your service is a bit different because it's people that are not you know necessarily engaging in other services but I don't know it's interesting isn't it why why are you getting mainly people that can speak English you know being referred to your service or repeatedly phoning for emergency services I think it's something about being able to

Starting point is 00:19:52 navigate the system so you need language to navigate the system somewhat and yeah I think that that's probably what's happening so if people aren't able to speak the language and don't have people around to support them and they can't get access to support and to help. So I think I just can say people in our team do sometimes see people with interpreters, but not very often. I think it's a really interesting thought to think about. And I might need to take that back to our service lead and think about how we can see if there's a gap gap see if we're missing people

Starting point is 00:20:25 because they're not able to engage in services or communicate their needs yeah really interesting point and I guess I was then thinking about whether there's potentially a role for an audit you know are you auditing who is presenting at emergency services and looking at their demographics to see where you can perhaps better engage it's always quite fun to think about where you can potentially get some research and dissemination stuff to put on your form is that something that that goes on quite routinely anyway Jonathan to help inform what you're doing? Yeah so at the moment there's quite a lot of conversations about audits and thinking about the kind of patients that we see.

Starting point is 00:21:07 So our criteria really is that we need someone to have attended A&E over 10 times in the last 12 months. So we do have a minimum criteria. But what we find is that the people that we end up seeing often attend a significant amount so I'd say significant being like 25 times a month something like that and so the system is encouraged to get in contact with us and refer this person so that we can try and help support them um yeah 25 times a month gosh that's that's almost once a day isn't it but I think you know as a commissioner you might see that as a bit of a nightmare as a client but I think what we see as professionals are gosh that's a lot of distress you know that's a lot of uncontainment that's a lot of feeling lost alone scared and really not sure what else to to do and when I worked in a

Starting point is 00:22:11 youth prison sometimes young people would harm themselves and there was different viewpoints around how that should be responded to because some people were like oh well if you're too nurturing then almost the nurturing and the kindness from the nurses that care for you then become part of the problem because it's part of the motivation it's like a secondary gain but sometimes it's a primary gain if I hurt myself then I can be cared for but you know we're not going to start delivering services that are not humane or not kind and of course what we want to think about health service employees is that they are compassionate that they are kind and it should feel like a safe place like a port in the storm but there might well be more appropriate

Starting point is 00:22:57 ports for storms and I guess that's what you're trying to do yeah it's really interesting that you you say that um yeah we do have some situations where people are coming to amy repeatedly or calling the london ambulance repeatedly and and yeah a second secondary gain of that is is is that they're receiving good care and support and some attention and people are people holding them in mind i think we're talking about loneliness just previously people holding their in mind I think which weren't loneliness just previously people holding their mind I think it's really important for people to have that and yeah I think it does it does contribute sometimes to the presentation and I do try and practice what I preach a little bit I do speak to strangers in the street. I developed a friendship with a lady who since moved away,

Starting point is 00:23:47 which is really sad, but she was 87 when we knew her best and she lived by herself and me and my children would go around and visit her. And she was just so delighted to have a phase of her life that she thought had passed her by, which was young children coming around to play. And it was really lovely. And I befriended another little chap. I won't say what his name is, but, you know, we often kind of familiar strangers

Starting point is 00:24:12 that walk similar routes at similar times of day. And, you know, I know his name and what I know about him, and I know what he gets up to. And I love that. I love that. But I know that lots of people don't like talking to strangers. They don't like forming connections. But I do try to do it where I can and try and make a difference where I can as well which is again a little bit off topic but it's related isn't it no it definitely

Starting point is 00:24:36 is related I'm thinking about I'm smiling sorry I'm thinking about London and that that isn't so frequent in in the city people often head down marching to wherever they're going. And although saying that, recently we've had a couple of new neighbours move in and they've been super friendly and come and said hi. I want to move into our house. And a couple of years ago, one of the neighbours brought some food over and I was super, super surprised and shocked. But it was a really nice thing to for her to have done which is just great I love that I saw just on I don't know if you're part of it but there there's a massive massive Facebook group called I think it's family tips lockdown support or

Starting point is 00:25:17 something so it obviously started in lockdown but now it's a massive group that gets really good engagement and one of the viral posts on there recently was one of my new neighbours has just bought around all this food for me. And she speaks this language. And I want to be able to culturally appropriately respond. How should I do that? And it was really, really interesting hearing people's descriptions of that. And, you know, well, if she speaks um you know urdu then she's probably a vegetarian and actually maybe she wouldn't even be happy with accepting food

Starting point is 00:25:52 from strangers so you might be better to give her a card and give her some flowers um you know and I just I just found it so interesting and you know people were like oh that's such a lovely thing to do why don't people do that more but I love that you know even two days like, oh, that's such a lovely thing to do. Why don't people do that more? But I love that, you know, even two days in a row, you've now told me that that happens as well. Yeah, yeah, it definitely does. I think what I was thinking about when you said that story is about how the diversity in that group is really helpful because you're able to then tap into different languages different cultures and you can better respond to to that act of kindness which is which is great we're partly meeting today to think about the importance of culture and the importance of identity and the importance of um connecting with people that you feel you've got similarities with so do you want to tell us a little bit about that and why that's so important to you Jonathan? Yeah yeah I can definitely do

Starting point is 00:26:50 that um so I'm someone who's been in psychology for a little while I think like five-ish years and I like you said before I've lived in a lot of different cities in psychology um and to be honest I haven't come across many many men to start with but many black men at all and i think i've met two two black clinical psychologists and that's been black man who are clinical psychologists and that's been um with me actively seeking those people out to get some advice about about things. And it's all kind of come to a head recently where I've applied for the course a couple of times and haven't been successful. And I was thinking about community and support. I think there have been a number

Starting point is 00:27:36 of things that I've kind of focused and get my head down in trying to achieve this thing. And I've kind of forgotten about the other parts outside the psychology. And so I thought, you know what, maybe I need a community and maybe other people are feeling similar to what I am. So with that in mind, I kind of went about seeking people in spaces, so using Facebook groups that you've spoken about, the place on LinkedIn, which is what I think you saw and then on Twitter as well so just reaching out on all the social media spaces and to try and

Starting point is 00:28:12 recruit some people and yeah we've managed to do that and start this group which has been really really great actually really great. Well to you and um i think there's absolutely a space for if you can't see it it's harder to feel like you can be it but if you can't see what you need it's it's absolutely great to create your own um and what sort of you know is it just conversations that you have do you organize events events? Are there big plans there? What's going on currently? And have you got a view for how that might develop in future? Yeah, so we've had potentially, I think, three or four meetings.

Starting point is 00:28:58 Three meetings, I think. We've got another meeting next week. So, yeah, I guess this is something that I had the idea about and I reached out to people, but I've currently got a co-facilitator on board who's been really helpful and we can work on things together. I'm hoping that we can get one more so between the three of us we can try and curate and develop this space. I think two of the important principles is that, okay, yeah, so we want to grow from each other really, you know, so having the space in the community so we can, yeah, better

Starting point is 00:29:29 support each other and grow from each other's experiences. I think that's really important. And the second thing I think is also a social space. So obviously the group ends up focusing on the Deakin because a lot of people in that space want to get on this course and progress within psychology. So not everyone there wants to do a declin, they want to do just progress within psychology, doing other things. So maybe the CAT course and things like that. The other part is, I think to make it sustainable, there needs to be a social element and a connection element. So we've been thinking about ways to keep that going. So we haven't yet met in person, we've had all three meetings have been on Zoom so far, but me and the other co-facilitators are trying to

Starting point is 00:30:17 organise a meet-up session. I think it's a little bit difficult because people are in different parts of the country, so there's a fair few of us in London. There's people in Liverpool and people in, I think, maybe Coventry as well. And so, yeah, where you are, there's people all over the country. And trying to bring those people together is a little bit difficult. There's about 15 of us right now. We're hoping to increase those numbers. Sometimes it can be useful to piggyback off another event so

Starting point is 00:30:47 if you know that perhaps you're going to go to a particular conference or that something's happening then maybe you could meet like the day before that so that you're kind of in the same area of the country anyway but there's always there's always room for planning something but yeah it puts it puts costs up doesn't it and um but I think there is something around that connection in person that can be really special. And sometimes I think via remote technology, meeting, making friends and feeling safe can be trickier. So being in person can be really useful for that.

Starting point is 00:31:17 Yeah, I think we've had to name that. So when we started the group, we thought about how we want this to be explicitly a safe space and non-judgmental space for people to come and be themselves or authentic selves and I think that's that's really important um so you're talking about events before I'm sorry I didn't really answer that how about events um there's another group which I guess kind of inspired me to create this this offshoot if you will and the snap band they're a group on LinkedIn, which I'm part of. They hold a lot of events for, I guess, people of the global majority, really.

Starting point is 00:31:54 So they have events for that cohort, that group. And so we've been signposting people from our group to those groups, to those events, sorry. And I think that's really, really useful for people, you know, because they've got a good thing going there. So we don't want to recreate the wheel too much. We're just sending people that way. And we're thinking of what we can create in the future. What was it you said? The Snap Band?

Starting point is 00:32:19 Snap Band is the name of the group. Snap Band. Could you spell it and guide us through what I'm guessing, I'm guessing that means black and Asian minorities, does it? But Snap Bam. So I think, I think it stands for supporting network for aspiring psychologists, black, Asian, minority, ethnic, I think. Something to that effect. Okay, so all of the letters are important.

Starting point is 00:32:48 They're SnapBam, right. SnapBam, yes. Okay, so if people want to learn more about SnapBam, that's, did you say Twitter and Facebook? Is that where they? Yeah, they've got a group on Twitter. They've got a group on LinkedIn as well. I think there's almost like 800, 900 people in that space. So that's

Starting point is 00:33:05 definitely a really, really useful space for resources. And I've gone to events in the past, and they're really good. They do really well and curate them to the people who attend. So I think it's a really good thing to do. And in our group, we'd hope to have events like that as well. But so far, we're focusing on just trying to build some connections and we hold a couple of reflective and spaces so that's what we've done in the group so far so a couple of times we someone will bring something and we'll talk about it for 10 minutes and then we'll all try and reflect on that bring our experiences and as well as having some sessions to try and develop some skills. So more recently, we introduced something where we'll provide a topic

Starting point is 00:33:50 to someone, a random topic, and they'll have to speak on it for two minutes, which is a lot harder than it sounds. So someone gives you a random topic and you just have to start speaking. And it's really difficult, but our hope is that it builds a bit of confidence with people that they're able to take something random hold it digest it sit the discomfort and then bring something out that maybe is coherent maybe it's not you know but it's something about developing skills and sometimes it's quite funny I love that and it's so interesting and it's so relevant to

Starting point is 00:34:21 ClinPsych so I spoke in a couple of episodes ago about a drop-in clinic that I used to run when I was on placement five of the course and that literally people would just turn up and I would know their name and that was it and then it's like go fix their problems in 20 minutes you know get them get them on a right path and I guess it's probably quite similar to what the work you do as well but um it was incredible and it was really a great way of learning you know and thinking on the spot and trying to be you know like you said trying to be coherent and trying to make sense but they're really really useful skills um to have and so yeah that sounds like an absolutely brilliant activity yeah yeah I think it's it's been good so far I think another thing that we we spoke about is trying to run some kind of clinics

Starting point is 00:35:11 like you say to support people who are trying to progress in their career so there's some people who are currently working as um healthcare support workers I've also done that role and they're hoping to get into a more psychologically minded role. And so we're thinking of holding clinics and spaces where we can support people as a group. Someone can come in, speak to you, provide support. I've done that with one of the people in our group so far. He's recently just got an AP job, which is great. I can't say I can't take credit for that because I

Starting point is 00:35:45 only spoke to him for 10 minutes 20 minutes but it's just really great to see that people progressing and doing well which is great love that so important and I held a very impromptu clinic in the back of an uber recently as I was on the way back from my Galway trip. So the lovely chap who was driving me, we were just chatting, and he said that originally he'd gone to uni and he'd done law. But for a variety of reasons that I unpicked during that journey, he hadn't progressed. And by the time we finished, while the homie dropped me at my house he had a plan to at least google in the gap that he had a master's to consider getting himself

Starting point is 00:36:34 back on the law path and I love that and like he was so fired up by the time we finished that sort of 20 minute journey the it's these micro interventions that can potentially have the difference to make a real difference and to inspire hope and possibility I think yeah no that's a really nice story it kind of makes me think of some of the stuff that we do sometimes in A&E and like single session work so you're not sure someone's turned up in A&E yes they keep attending but because we're a nine to five service, we don't always see people out of hours. And so if they are down there in Amy,

Starting point is 00:37:12 rush down and try and do a single session with them in the hope that that will start a process, you know, that we can get back involved with. So, yeah, that's kind of what I think you've got when you're saying that. It's all about potentially being the difference that makes the difference isn't it and meeting them where they're at when they've got the capacity to hear that and to work with those changes so I will likely never know the end of that story and that's a similar thing with with single session work isn't it that you don't get to know but very occasionally people will contact

Starting point is 00:37:42 you and go you know you probably don't remember me. But and, you know, you hear, oh, it made this massive change to me, you know, spending that time together. And so, oh, I just absolutely love it. So keep doing what you're doing personally and professionally. If you had any top tip for reducing burnout in aspiring psychologists, what might that be, Jonathan? That's a really, really good question. I think burnout is probably quite common within aspiring psychologists. I know that me, myself, I've definitely, definitely been through that. I think it's trying to quickly race through all these hoops and gaps that we feel are in front of us. So for example, when I work as a healthcare assistant on a ward, I also volunteered as an AP in a different city. And so I was doing the four days a week on this ward, driving to the city two days a week and then coming back and then going back to work.

Starting point is 00:38:44 And very, very very quickly within a couple of months was starting to burn out and I think at that time what I used was the community around me the people around me and to kind of focus on the things that brought me joy you know and so that included playing sports playing football and going out with my friends seeing my family that kind of thing, prioritising those things, even though yes I wanted to move forward in my career, I think prioritising those things is really useful. And again that's part of the reason why I think this BMAP space is really important because some aspiring psychologists can feel like they need to go to um i guess different places in the

Starting point is 00:39:26 in the country so maybe like from oscantorpe or into scotland let's say they're from london going all over the country and to do these ap jobs and their community can't always follow them so what i'm hoping is that this space can be a constant for people you know and they might know people in that city and people can feel more comfortable and wherever they are yeah I think being part of the community really in summary to answer your question could be really really useful oh what a lovely warming and totally on brand um answer that was um so thank you so much for your time in talking with us today and guiding us through a little bit about your story a little bit about what got you into psychology you know what you're

Starting point is 00:40:11 doing currently and also how you're trying to support encourage and change people's experience of feeling othered or feeling lonely or feeling isolated and wondering if this is even the right career for them. So you're doing such incredible work, Jonathan. Could you just remind us where the best place to contact you on socials is? And I'll make sure I put that in the show notes and we'll have it on screen as well. Thank you. So we're on LinkedIn. So BMAP are on LinkedIn. And I personally am on LinkedIn as Jonathan Paddy.

Starting point is 00:40:43 And we've got an email address which is bmap2023 at gmail.com and I think those places would be great to contact us we haven't yet got Twitter so we'll be working on that but yeah I just want to say it's not just me yes I thought of the idea but when I spoke to the people they'd also had the idea as well and I guess it was just about reaching out to people and now I've got people on board who are really helping to to support and bring this to life which is great good well I'm delighted to be able to get word out hopefully further and um is it is it okay for international applicants to contact you as well because we do have listeners internationally okay that's really

Starting point is 00:41:24 I didn't talk about that at all did I really so our group is for aspiring psychologists and we have we basically take anybody who has already done a psychology degree so if you've done a psychology degree or conversion degree that's fine if you identify as a as a man and you're as a black man then yes get involved I think and we also accepting of trainees so that's one thing we spoke about at the last meeting i think having aspiring psychologists and trainees in the same space feels like it could work and we're not quite sure how we could manage um qualified um members of staff just because of the power so we're trying to figure that out

Starting point is 00:42:00 um in terms of international if people are hoping to um get on any of the courses in the UK I think yeah yeah we're more than more than happy more than open because that's kind of where our expertise is we do I don't know anything about psychology in other countries no okay brilliant well it might be that as your own group members evolve and grow that you develop just naturally a qualified you know they almost you almost graduate to the qualified group um so i think that i think it will do it itself naturally with time but well done for giving yourself permission to do that um and you know making the difference that you want to see in psychology it's incredibly admirable and i hope that you want to see in psychology it's incredibly admirable and I hope that you yeah I hope that you help many many people and I hope that you get on training very soon too um sounds like you're doing

Starting point is 00:42:51 great stuff yeah thank you yeah no I hope so too I hope we can get people through the the process really it's it can be really tough so um yeah having this this here for people and I think it'll help support me but should also help support other people. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for having me. Really happy to be here. You're so welcome. Oh, what a wonderful chat that was. I feel really excited for the profession of clinical psychology and how people are just able to stand up and be the difference to make the difference. I think it's really encouraging. If you're doing something

Starting point is 00:43:35 exciting in the field of psychology or you'd like to pitch a different podcast episode to me, please do get in contact with me on my socials like i said i'm dr marianne trent everywhere and if you want to replay any of the compassionate q a sessions go to dr marianne trent on youtube click the live tab because that's where they hang out there and you should be able to see them all and there's of course details in the show notes but yeah I will look forward to catching up with you for our next episode of the podcast which will be available for you from Monday at 6am. Take care of yourselves and thank you so much for being part of my world. if you're looking to become a psychologist

Starting point is 00:44:32 then let this be your guide with this podcast that's your side to be on your way to being qualified it's the aspiring psychologist My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to

Starting point is 00:45:27 become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay but trust me you will not put the book down once you start

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Community interventions, human connection and being a black male in Psychology with Jonathan Padi

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