The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Consultancy, Values and Health Challenges with Dr Liz Gregory

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Show Notes for The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast Episode: Consultancy, Values and Health Challenges with Dr Liz Gregory Thank you for listening to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. One of my favourite parts of being a psychologist is learning from my colleagues, many of them whom have had decades of experience. It can be wonderful learning and growing alongside more established staff members and hearing about them and their careers and how the profession has changed over time. In this episode we speak with Dr Liz Gregory a consultant clinical psychologist who has recently retired. We also speak about her experiences of being diagnosed with and recovering from cancer. I’d of course love any feedback you might have, and I’d love to know what your offers are and to be connected with you on socials so I can help you to celebrate your wins! The Highlights:(00:00): Summary(01:02): Intro(01:50): Hi to Dr Liz and her recent retirement and a cancer diagnosis(03:07): Ringing the bell and ethical considerations(04:43): Putting yourself first during a health battle(05:40): Receiving treatment rather than giving it(06:33): The grueling impacts of treatment (07:25): Getting into psychology(10:09): A first assistant post(10:56): What the course was like and reducing perfectionism(12:33): The benefits of a cohort and your placement day structure(13:21): Liz’s role since qualifying (16:15): What does being a newly qualified feel like?(17:57): The full circle of colleagues journeys through the psychology profession(19:35): The most important value in psychology(21:28): The core values when working with children and families (24:24): Stepping up to consultancy(26:05): The privilege of cultivating colleague relationships(26:53): Transitioning to new relationships with previous colleagues (27:53): A career break in Canada with volunteering(29:52): Roots in empathy (31:57): Dr Liz’s advice for aspiring psychologists (33:46): What’s next for Liz?(37:13): The development of services and upskilling and empowering others(40:06): Summary and closeLinks:To Follow Dr Liz on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DizzyDoodler 💝To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0  To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97  To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/supervision Grab your copy of the new book: The Aspiring Psychologist Collective: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97  Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her,...

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Right, let's get on with today's episode. Hi, welcome along to today's episode where I am talking to Dr. Liz Gregory, who is a consultant clinical psychologist who has just retired. We are discussing all things psychology, how the career has changed over time, what her clinical passions have been. We also cover her top tips for aspiring psychologists, as well as thinking about navigating work whilst struggling with a physical health diagnosis and all that that entails. Hope you find it so useful. Then let this be your guide With this podcast at your side You'll be on your way to being qualified

It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast With Dr. Marianne Trent Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. I love what we can learn about the psychology profession and about ourselves from people at different stages of the journey. It's my absolute pleasure to chat with our guest for today's episode, Dr. Liz Gregory. I hope you'll find it useful and I look forward to catching up with you on the other side. If you enjoy this episode, please do subscribe if you're watching on YouTube, like and comment. And if you are listening on podcast, for example, Spotify or Apple, please do rate and review.

Hi, just want to welcome our guest for today, Dr. Liz Gregory. Hi, Liz. Hi, really nice to be here. Thank you for the invitation. Oh, thank you for saying yes. So you caught my eye on Twitter because you were celebrating your retirement from being a consultant clinical psychologist weren't you? That's right yeah I retired last week after 32 years in the NHS and 27 years in One Health Board and 21 years as Joint Head of Child and Family Psychology Services there in Gwent. Amazing well done to you and I'm sure that so many people both clients and staff alike have benefited so richly from that real real dedication to your work so thank you on their behalf I'm sure they've also

said thank you to you in in your retirement cards and things as well yeah it was a it was a really lovely event and it was a particularly poignant event because I've spent the last seven months actually being treated for breast cancer so to return and retire and to have all of that acknowledgement having to really put some distance between myself and work in order just to get on with the job in hand which was obviously putting my health first made it particularly yeah poignant I would say and very different to how I'd anticipated it. Yeah, absolutely. I hope that you are in better health now. Yeah, absolutely. I've come to the end of my treatment and I've rung the bell, which is the

the kind of punctuation of treatment in cancer services it's always a tricky one because I think once you've had cancer you never actually fully believe that you're over it and I've got my first milestone scan in August so I'm obviously you know anticipating that but as far as the treatment has gone it's gone as well as it could so I'm keeping everything crossed. Amazing I'm so pleased for you and even when I hear you and others say you know I've rung the bell gosh it really gets my feels you know it's massive isn't it it's so significant. It is it's a really tricky one and I you know I was a bit ambivalent about it if I'm honest for lots and lots of reasons I think firstly because

as I say you never quite feel it's over, I never quite know how it feels for the other people in the waiting area who may, you know, be a long way from that or may actually not be able to do that. So that's always a bit difficult. But it also felt like an important thing to do for my family who've been supporting me. And just to, you know you know as I say it's a punctuation and it marks a change of phase is how I see it rather than a woohoo it's all over I you know I don't quite see it like that. Yeah so it might be that it feels more of a rite of passage for your family but I love that you're so mindful of what others around you you know might make of that well once a psychologist yeah but I have worked really hard actually at trying to put myself first through this journey and you know obviously

finishing work in order to concentrate on treatment was was big for me because I've not had a period of sickness as far as I can remember at all so it was quite a big step but a really really important one. Yeah and I guess there's still knowing that we're allowed to be mindful and really pleased that our own health has has you know had a great outcome whilst also being moved by the distress of others you know it's that mutual exclusivity isn't it you know you're allowed to have one and the other absolutely absolutely and cancer has been a real challenge for that one I think so tell me a little bit if you can about your experience of being treated by the NHS rather than working within it yeah I mean it's it's been phenomenal I have to say and I think um you know I have had a bit of

private treatment along the way as well because my husband happens to have private care but it is it's quite interchangeable when it comes to cancer and I think um you know every interaction I've had with every member of staff has been just incredible. And that's not always the case. I know that. I'm fully aware of that. But I can genuinely say that from my personal experience. And I guess I'm very grateful for that at a time when I needed it most. And just the competence and the kindness and I think the reassurance that you're in this system and we know what we're doing and

you're going to go through this this this and this and um you know it's it's just been terribly straightforward it's been grueling I'm not going to underestimate that at all and I've had some really um tricky experiences so when I had my first chemotherapy I had a neutropenic sepsis response so had to be admitted very urgently but again all part of what they see all part of what they can anticipate and all part of what they're geared up to address so it really has been pretty spectacular I have to say. I'm delighted that you found that to be the case. I really am. And that you've, you know, got good stuff to say. And you know, you've had a good experience and a great outcome. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Can we think a little bit about your career and how that's

been for you? So when did you, when did you start deciding that you might want to be a clinical psychologist it's a very long time ago I have to say so I did my undergraduate degree and that was a four-year degree in psychology in Cardiff and I chose psychology I would say because I didn't know what else to do and I was okay at the sciences and I was okay at the arts so it was it kind of felt like a good combination type degree and I kind of went into it and chose a degree with a year in industry or a year a placement opportunity really to help me think about what on earth I was going to do and I did my year in industry in HR and it really served a great purpose because it was, you know, a fantastic experience. But I knew it wasn't for me. But I was also I think I was the first in my family to go to university.

Didn't see myself as particularly academic at all. And so really wrote myself off the clinical path, which even then was, you know, pretty tough in terms of competitiveness and who puts themselves through that. So I felt that wasn't for me, but I honestly didn't know what else I was going to do. Other than it wasn't going to be HR. No disrespect to that at all, but it just wasn't a good fit for me. And so I worked for a housing association for adults with learning disabilities. And I think that really introduced me into the world of obviously vulnerable groups, but also empowerment and positive choice and change. And that was very much at the time when the hospitals were closing down and adults were going out into the community. And I just absolutely loved it. And then I applied for a job as a data input clerk at

a hospital at the time. And it was doing research into interventions for people with learning disabilities and I think I wouldn't dare apply for an assistant psychology post at that time because again I didn't see myself as as being able and capable of doing that and pursuing that but the I didn't get the job but the person on the interview panel said there is another job. And I think you'd be really great for that. So, you know, just, I needed that confidence building incentive, I think, to take that step. And so I got a job as a psychology assistant, absolutely loved it. I mean, I, you know, I shudder now at the level of responsibility assistance were given in those days. And, and particularly in learning disability services, because I think that recruitment was know I shudder now at the level of responsibility assistants were given in those days and and particularly in learning disability services because I think that recruitment was really

really tough and so they would fill a gap for a qualified person with an assistant and kind of you'd be off on your own in a team and and so-called doing the job but I learned a huge amount in that job and had you know know, great fun and great support. And it gave me the confidence to apply for clinical training. So I applied. And I remember I also, you know, assumed I wouldn't get on. And I had a car that I was going to sell and travel, you know, do the kind of year round traveling around the world.

So I felt I put myself into that position where I had a great alternative. know I wasn't going to be too disappointed and I got on and that was that was the story and it was the Plymouth course that I did my clinical training in. Amazing and that all went relatively smoothly I hope. Yeah yes I mean it is you know it's a challenging course of course it is but I would say I genuinely enjoyed it. It was a very well organized course. It was one of those courses at the time and I'm not sure if they still happen in this way where you get allocated your placement health board or trust as it was at the time. And then you go and do blocks of teaching down in Plymouth. So there was a, you know, real variety.

And I suppose a bit of an escape in a different world that you could kind of have a bit of respite from one and go into the other and a bit of respite from that and go into the other. And I think that worked really well for me and suited me. And it was the first course to get the doctorate so I think there was a lot of academic pressure but I think there was a rigor to that that that I really benefited from so I remember we had to do on top of a placement case studies and research we had to do a lot of essays so one big essay per placement but also 10 short essays per placement and I think that gave me a real skill in extracting important information and putting it down and not worrying too much about it which I think has really really served me well because you know

you can pour over for hours on end if you've got one essay but if you've got 10 um you've got to crack on and I think that that was really really um good training actually amazing so reducing some of that perfectionism just done let's get it passed let's go it's gonna be another one in a minute anyway absolutely yeah and also that you know giving you some real confidence in core competencies and core concepts and core research papers that, you know, that just reading them, you know, obviously you get some insight into that. But when you've actually got to pull out that information and extract it, it was good. We moaned about it all the time. Don't get me wrong. You know, but in hindsight, when when I look back that that was a good training for me particularly yeah and I think that's where a cohort can really come in isn't it you mentioned that you kind of found the compartmentalizing quite useful and I know I did

too and our our teaching was that it was on a Monday and a Friday with placement days being Tuesday Wednesday Thursday so it felt like a really nice cushion either side to kind of do the how was your weekend, all of that jazz, and then go into placement and then come out the other side and go, well, how was it? How's your weekend? And so for me, that compartmentalising, but in a really cushioned, safe way felt really nice. Yeah, that sounds great, actually. Yeah.

So did you continue in what is what they now call intellectual disabilities but some people do say learning disabilities or did you move into a different clinical specialty once you qualified yeah my my first role was um for children um with um intellectual disabilities learning disabilities, and particularly an intensive support service for children whose behaviours were challenging to services. And yeah, that was very intensive. And I did that for a year. And then I moved to the health board where I've spent the rest of my career. So what have you been doing in health board what's your role been? Yeah well I started as a what we call a borough psychologist so there were five boroughs in our region and each region

had one psychologist so we were very sparse and it was one of those you know again I think recruitment and resources were a huge factor in this but um you could start as a neuropsychologist at a very junior level but it was actually a very senior role so I guess that preceptorship and um being supported in the job and developing in the job was something that was absolutely part and parcel of of um you know, what the careers were at that time. And I absolutely loved it. It was a great service. It had fantastic values. And I loved the community that, you know, was my borough. And it was a big sense of responsibility as well in that, you know, whatever came through the door, you were the psychologist who was going to be dealing with it. So that felt huge at the time.

But I think a really good experience of kind of learning that that's OK. We've got the skills. We can apply them to whatever the dilemmas are. And kind of taking a breath and not feeling you've got to fix everything. But the skills you bring are about curiosity and understanding and taking time and being alongside and so it was a fantastic training um in in i suppose that aspect of the job as well as the huge variety um of of issues that families might present with at any one time yeah i think that's going to be really useful advice for anybody listening to this as well because the nature of this beast that we work in is that

you're going to have many placements or many roles and you've got to be able to sort of just run with it and I know when I first qualified I thought I was going to be sort of getting kid gloves and they would be quite leisurely start but no they'd be waiting for me for months so they were keen for me to run with it and they said you are in the nicest possible way they were really nice about it but you're qualified we trust you to do this you know to go out there and do the job absolutely yeah and I think that's such an important aspect of our training that we we need the confidence to be reassured. We've been doing this for a very, very long time. And what we're bringing is those skills,

not a magic wand, not the answer, and not the years of experience on the job that other people in the team have. And so trusting that it is about that difference that we bring, and that that's valued and valuable is a really important part of the job, I think. I think so. But I found that really empowering, actually, that they weren't saying, well, you're not quite finished yet. You know, they were saying, you know, go out there, do it, smash it. And if there's any problems, just bring them back here and we'll talk about it in supervision. Exactly. absolutely. So you must have seen your fair share of aspiring psychologists, assistant psychologists, trainee psychologists, newly

qualified psychologists across your career. How's that been for you watching the profession change over time? Yeah, it's been fabulous. I think it's been one of the most exciting parts of the job is that um you know seeing the journey that people are on and we've often had people who've come as placement students then come back as assistants then come back as qualified staff so I just love that full circle and also that message to us as a service that we were getting it right enough that they wanted to come back and that um you know that we supported them on that journey so I've really really enjoyed that um I think the changes it's it's really tough because when you're in it you don't kind of notice the the stepwise changes and I think one of the things that we've been

passionate about uh in our service is that the core values remain. So the things that I was saying 20 years ago that are important for children and families are still important for children and families. But, you know, I hope that we're a very broad church in our service and that psychology is a very broad church and that we're continuously learning and that curiosity and not thinking we've got the answer, but that we keep learning and we keep open, being open to new ideas, new ways of working, new ways of thinking. It's just part and parcel of, I think, what we've tried to promote in our service. And I think it's, I think it's absolutely vital. Yeah, and I feel passionately about that. And I feel really proud of our profession for that, that there's not an end point.

And not to feel bad about what you didn't know before, that that's all part of the process. And our job is to bring the knowledge base that we have now to the difficulties that people are experiencing and see how that fits but to never think this is the answer and you need to do this in order to solve your problem so it you know it fits quite well with the evolving nature of the profession I think. I definitely shudder when I think about my first experience of offering therapy in a youth prison because I was rubbish rubbish but I was still doing the best I could with the skills and resources I had at that time and it was still

useful for the clients that were getting that it's just I know I'd do a much better job well of course and wouldn't we all and you know and I think in child psychology and as a parent you know that's the that's exactly the feeling it's like if I knew then what I know now but I didn't and I did everything with the absolute best intention and also you know I talk about the the values that endure the most powerful value I think is the power of the relationship and if you're working hard at creating relationships it doesn't matter where you are on your career trajectory that's going to be the most powerful ingredient in any therapeutic change. Yeah and I'm a parent as well I've got two young boys they are they're going to want me to say what they almost are so

almost 10 and almost 7 and for me one of the most important things I can do is to repair any ruptures that crop up between myself when I haven't quite lived to my values of how I want to parent, but also encouraging them to repair ruptures rather than just gloss over them, because I think that's really, really important, and we can absolutely learn to do that with clients as well, can't we, to repair any ruptures in our relationship? yeah and you know and obviously our our relationships with professions with teams with with other services it's exactly the same as that that we're on a journey together and we're open to learning and we and if if we've got it wrong then then it's absolutely our job to let people know that, but that we're open to doing differently next time. Can I hear a bit more about the core values, the things that you think are really incredibly important when working with children, young people and families?

Yeah, I mean, I think our job as psychologists is to really promote that relational, developmental, contextual understanding of children's distress. And, you know, to kind of see that as our role, regardless of the presenting problem, those things are absolutely critical to our understanding. And obviously, from a rights-based approach, children's rights, the importance of hearing their voice, empowerment, but also, I think, the importance of their context, the family, the system around them and the vehicles for change that they have in their wider system is absolutely pivotal to our work and really kind of more significant often than children who are often in a very disempowering role and can't affect the changes that will make the difference to them. And also, most importantly, I think that every child is unique. So if you've, you know, if you've seen this before, then, you know, it's not going to be helpful to go into a situation thinking, you know, and you understand.

You've got to be curious and open to understanding it from their perspective and that it's impacting them very differently to how it might have impacted somebody else and that's not to dismiss the importance of you know knowing about an area understanding it having been through that journey before but I think that all has to be in the background and you've the foreground has to be and that this is a unique child with a unique family with a unique set of circumstances and your job is to really listen and understand that and fit what you've got to offer with with the strengths of that situation for them yeah I think a really powerful question can be well how is that for you because then you're getting their unique stance aren't you absolutely absolutely lovely so thinking about career of course, you got on to being a consultant clinical psychologist. How does that work? What does that involve?

Gosh, well, again, that was a long time ago. And I think it's fair to say that, as I say, my first job was quite brief. I was there for a year and then I joined a service that really aligned with my values and I absolutely loved the work. And the manager at the time was retiring. And so it was that dilemma of I love where I work. And there's the potential that somebody new is going to come in and change where I work or I could put my hat in the ring. And that felt like a big step for me. I was, I think I was, you know, I can't remember, I was about 33 at the time, and I was pregnant with my first child, you know, it was the most rubbish time for thinking that I might go into that leadership role. But a colleague of mine was having exactly the same dilemma and was in a similar stage of life.

In fact, she had three under the age of five. So the last thing she wanted was to be a head of child psychology. And so we had one of those tentative conversations about, well, what could we do? Could we do it together? And we came up with a plan of going um putting ourselves forward as a job share and i've been job sharing with rachel for 21 years um so i think it was it was a really gentle step uh into what is a huge can be a huge leap and to

to be able to do that together with somebody and to um you know when you're feeling absolutely overwhelmed and like you're out of the depth for them to say no it's fine we're going to break it down and this is the next thing that we're going to do and for you to do exactly that for them I think really helped us in the early days um and I think that the job sharing thing was so important also in giving us confidence, courage, bravery you know when when things were getting tougher because the health service has been through all sorts of journeys along that along the way so yeah I think I think I was fortunate that that timing coincided with someone who I felt I could do the job with and that really helped what can be quite a big transition I don't know if that answers your

question it does it does and thinking about you know what a privilege and pleasure to have cultivated that depth of relationship with your colleague over these 20 years as well absolutely it's it's it's brilliant and you know there's huge sadnesses that that's come to an end but it's the sort of relationship where we're just delighted we can actually have some fun together now and not you know we've all we've had a lot of fun along the way but we can only have fun that's the only nature of our relationship now so that you've graduated exactly a different level of your relationship exactly so. So that's brilliant. But I think, in fact, it was really interesting at my retirement due, our heads of service for psychology also job share.

And apparently we were the inspiration for their relationship to pursue that particular way of working. And I think it's just such a useful model for all sorts of reasons, particularly if you have children and you prefer to work part time. It means that when you're not in work, somebody else is. And I think that allows work to be more in its place, which is a huge privilege, actually, in a job like ours, which can feel all-consuming at times. Sounds like you're trailblazers and permission givers, but also, you know, everyone else, yeah, can do, they can function without you, the world can go on. Absolutely, yeah, and I think that's right, and I was very fortunate, actually, in that I had a

career break during that time, and was supported to have a career break, both by my organisation, but also by my job share partner who stepped up into the role. You know, she was at a stage in her life where that felt possible. So it just gives that little bit of flexibility. And I went to Canada for two and a half years back in 2014 and I think you know for me that gave me a completely different experience and meant I came back into the role fresher with new ideas and with new energy so I think it really served a useful function at all sorts of levels. So were you working when you were in Canada or was that a career break? It was a career break my husband's work took us out there and I did look into working but you have to have a

particular you have to re-qualify to work in different areas of Canada and they all have different criteria and I think even my work visa meant I couldn't work in health and education because there's no gaps um that needed to be filled there in in Canada so I took it as permission not to work um but I and I kept ourselves very busy with you know making the most of that opportunity and I had young school-aged children which obviously took a bit of sorting out as well but I did volunteer and I volunteered for Roots of Empathy which is a Canadian program it's now worldwide but it's started in Canada and it brings a baby and a parent into the classroom and helps children learn about their own emotional worlds by learning about the emotional world of the baby.

And it's an evidence-based intervention that reduces bullying and increases pro-social play. So I didn't quite switch off from my world, but I, you know, it was a hugely rewarding volunteer role to do and absolutely aligned to my values and it's something that I've been passionate about bringing over here to the UK and it's now in the region where I worked and it you know it's just a great program on all sorts of levels but again it really fits with what I think is important for children to experience. I haven't heard of Roots of Empathy that sounds fascinating. Yeah it's it's brilliant it's got a really good website and really great support from a whole range of areas particularly psychological and social you know neurodevelopmental

aspects. It's sort of building on the why love matters type approach by Sue Gerhart. Is that the right vein that I'm in? Yes. And also, you know, just the power of relationships exactly. And why, you know, how important it is to understand your own emotional world in order to understand the emotional world of others is absolutely central to it. But it's great fun as well. And obviously, the teacher has a great experience because they're able to stand back a bit. And the instructor takes that particular aspect of the class and the parent and the baby have a fantastic experience because you literally as a mum or dad walk into a classroom and 30 children just delight in your baby and the baby delights in the children and one of the most powerful things about it which really struck

me and I'd read about it when I'd done my research on it but to see it happen in the classroom was extraordinary that the baby somehow homes in on the most vulnerable children and I think and delights in them and I think you know probably that's the unconditional regard that the baby has for anybody who shows them delight and for that child who maybe is used to being seen in a particular way or being in trouble or, you know, whatever it happens to be, to have a baby just respond and receive them and delight in them is really powerful too. It's, it's, it's really, it's a great program. Absolutely sounds yeah it sounds incredible it sounds incredible thank you for letting me know about that I'm gonna I'm gonna have a little bit of a research

on that one um could you offer any advice or guidance for aspiring psychologists you think might be useful yeah I mean I think I I think if you're absolutely passionate about it, don't give up because I've seen so many psychologists take a bit of time unforgiving if it doesn't work out. So I think that's one bit of advice. I suppose the main thing I would say, and I think this is a really hard one to really trust and believe, is to be yourself, that actually, you know, that's the thing that comes across most strongly is your your passion, your internal drive about why you want to do this particular job, your your your values, you know, and not to feel that you have to be the expert at all. But as I was saying earlier, that openness and that curiosity and that continuous learning is really, really important, particularly at that trainee stage, I think. But, you know, I genuinely think it's really important throughout the whole career trajectory. Lovely. That's brilliant, helpful advice. Thank you. What's next for you,

Liz? What comes next at this, Yeah, the opposite end of the clinical psychology career. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think one of the, there's lots of reasons why I chose to take the opportunity to finish now. But I think one of the main ones is that I've still got some gas left in the tank. I didn't want, you know, I didn't want to end tired or, you know, at the end of my energy levels for the job and thought now was a good time to press pause. I think the cancer diagnosis has obviously brought lots of things into sharp relief and the need to have the summer off and not do very much and just catch up with myself really and what the last year has meant because I've literally just finished you know I had my last consultation with the oncologist last week so I'm very very

new to the end of the journey and I think ironically the end of the journey is the hardest bit because you're out on your own. I think it's terribly reassuring to have anybody prepared to take a look at a lump or a bump or listen to your worry when you're in the medical environment. But it's really tough when you're out the other end of it. And, you know, I'm going to be doing some, I've signed up for a moving forward course, for example, which, you know, helps you with that stage. And, you know, I'm going to be doing some, I've signed up for a moving forward course, for example, which, you know, helps you with that stage. And, you know, obviously, as a psychologist, I know lots of the stuff. But I think to go there as me, having been through cancer and hear it afresh and to look for those little nuggets that I'm sure will be there is's going to be really helpful but also really interesting to be on the other end of that and then I'm just going to see what is the moving forward course

for cancer patients or for people that are retiring it seems like no oh gosh it could be couldn't it I'm sure there'll be lots and lots of um yeah uh bits that will resonate for both of those stages you know it's a life stage and in fact I had my surgery um the day before my youngest child left home to go to university so I've had a lot of you know big life milestones exactly huge milestones so I think I need that time just to catch up with myself and see, you know, what was that all about? And where am I now? So I'm looking forward to that. So the moving forward specifically for health is that?

It's specifically, sorry, I've not been clear. It's specifically for people who've had a primary breast cancer. So it's kind of designed specifically around that. Although I'm sure, as I I say the general themes will very much resonate yeah and I think you know there's different parallels with the work we do as psychologists as well because of course there's long waiting lists for for mental health as well and then when they're when they're better they're no longer sort of meet our access criteria and so they graduate out of our service then they're like oh but now what I trusted you I like this relationship and it's how we go forwards totally yeah I mean one of the just thinking about um

our service and how it's developed over the years one of the things I feel most proud about is that we've really challenged that idea of um you need to meet a threshold and then you have your treatment and then you're out model of working with children and families who are experiencing mental health difficulties because it just doesn't fit. It's just, you know, it doesn't fit with their development, which means they're changing all of the time. It doesn't fit with when you need that help at a particular point in time. So we've developed a lot of services and uh you know based on the principle of no wrong door and that's really about empowering all professionals in children's lives to feel more confident and competent to be able to manage things having quick and easy access to expertise so helplines groups, all of those sorts of things, as well as obviously when those things don't work, specific interventions that are evidence based.

But also one of our kind of key hopes is that we've developed services that really empower all professionals to feel confident and competent in this area and it's not a separate thing but actually teachers in school, youth workers, the police, anybody who comes into children and young people feels that they've got a bit of an understanding and demystifying what mental health is so yeah I feel really proud of that aspect of it, that we've really moved away from, you know, waiting times being the thing that determines whether or not you get help or not, and meeting a particular criteria in a particular way at a particular point in time, which is the least helpful thing for children and families, I think. It's the power of upskilling as we go along and

the consultancy model isn't it and spreading a little bit of what we know you know far and wide so that it kind of becomes self-perpetuating really. Yeah absolutely and it's not just about knowledge it's about availability as well so I think that you know we know this as psychologists don't we that we can get trained in something and feel confident and competent on that day. And then something will throw us and we'll feel like we've lost that. So I think it's that continuous opportunity to have drop in supervision, consultation, feel that there's somebody at the end of the phone. Just that support that I think we're really privileged in our profession to prioritize but other professions just don't have that and so we're very keen to build that level of support and supervision and advice and consultation

into every aspect of of children's lives really amazing thank you so much for spending your time one of your first weeks of retired life with us helping guide us through your career and what's been really important and offering your best advice and wishing you the very best with this next stage of your career and may your health continue to be vibrant. Thank you. That's really kind. And it's been an absolute privilege. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for our guests for today. It was an absolute pleasure speaking with Liz. And I find myself thinking I'd have loved to have been Liz's trainee or Liz's assistant. I feel like I would have really been nurtured really well and guided through the process so I hope that you whoever you're working with have got a good relationship with your supervisors and I hope you found Lizzie's advice

and guidance and wise words really useful I'd love to know what you think to this episode do come along to join me on my socials I'm Dr Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. You can also catch up with me in the Aspiring Psychologist community free Facebook group. I will look forward to delivering the next episode of the podcast, which is available from Monday 6am. Until then, thanks for being part of my world. Take care and be kind to yourself. With this podcast that you'll see, you'll be on your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent. My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book.

I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay. But trust me, you will not put the book down once you start.