The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Dating as a psychologist, Finnish Culture, Occupational Psychology with Dr Mari Kovanen - DCounPsych

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

For those of you who are applying to the EdPsy or DclinPsy, I wish you the very best in your applications. In the meantime, we have a new episode out focusing on relationships, dating and connecting with Finnish culture with Dr Mari Kovenan. Dr Mari Kovenan has wandered through different paths of psychology including occupational psychology, and specialises in Trauma, and has a podcast too! Join us as we discuss the importance of self-compassion, the parallels in dating, parenting and relationships, and why Dr Kovenan likes to be registered with both the HCPC and BPS. The Highlights:(00:00): Summary (01:37): Compassionate Q&A’s to support you this application season!(03:12): Welcoming Dr Mari Kovanen(04:58): What exactly is occupational psychology? (07:41): Being registered with both HCPC and BPS(10:32): Networking – why is it important?(12:27): Protecting yourself from trauma (15:40): The importance of looking after yourself(19:30): On being Finnish (21:28): Generational Trauma amongst Finnish people(25:40): Being a psychologist working with both trauma and relationship coaching(28:17): Self-love in relationships & parenting (30:25): Compassion in parenting (33:47): How to Love Successfully (37:53): Connect with Dr Kovanen (39:02): Summary & closeLinks:📚 To connect with Mari on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/drmarikovanen & Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drmarikovanen/?hl=en 🎙️ To listen to Mari’s podcast “How to Love Successfully” on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFieALdDRYBDalwQJERg4TQ/about and her website: https://drmarikovanencoaching.com/podcast/ 🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97 💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested✍️ Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/supervision📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent💬 To join my free Facebook group and discuss your thoughts on this episode and more: https://www.facebook.com/groups/aspiringpsychologistcommunityLike, Comment,...

Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up in today's episode, I am joined by Dr. Mari Covenant, who is a counselling

psychologist. We are discussing her route to becoming qualified, as well as her background being Finnish. We also talk about the unique quandary of trying to date when you are a psychologist and a mental health professional hope you find this so useful if you're looking to become a psychologist then let this be your guide with this podcast that's your side to be on your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast.

I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I am a qualified clinical psychologist. Now in order to become a clinical psychologist, I had to go through the rigmarole and sometimes what felt like the personal exquisite torture of going through the clearinghouse system to apply by filling in a form. If this is your reality right now, or if you're filling in forensic psychology forms or educational psychology forms, and you would welcome some additional support, please check out my replay Q&A sessions, which are called compassionate Q&As because they're so nurturing and gentle and helpful, which you can find by going to my YouTube channel, Dr. Marianne Trent.

If you'd like a little bit more looking for the next level, looking for the next way to work with me, then do please consider coming on board to the Aspiring Psychologist membership, where the members say really great things about how helpful our work is and what we offer in helping them with their goals. I love that some of the connections we will make along the way are useful for us as part of our process, but also for the things we learn along the way too. It's my absolute pleasure to meet somebody today for the podcast who I've known about socially on social media for the last few years, but today is the first time we have met. I'm so excited to introduce you to her, hope that you'll get a lot of useful information from it. Here's another

one where you might learn a lot about culture, specifically Finnish culture, but also about a different psychology discipline. In fact, two different psychology disciplines that don't get so much airtime in this podcast. I hope you'll find it really interesting and you might also learn some tips for how to date successfully too. Hope you find it useful. I hope you'll find it really interesting and you might also learn some tips for how to date successfully too. Hope you find it useful. I look forward to catching you on the other side. Hi, just want to welcome our guest for today, Dr. Mari Covenan. Hi, Mari. Hi, lovely to be here and thank you, Marianne, for inviting me. Oh, well, thank you for saying yes. So we have been in each other's world for quite a few years now.

This is the first time we've ever spoken to face to face, which is exciting. So we are both part of a psychology network and you are, I'm right in in saying a qualified counselling psychologist yes lovely and also from our chats in setting up this podcast I understand you've done some occupational psychology as well yes that was in my past yeah is that something that still informs your practice now um well I suppose when therapy clients come to me often um they are obviously work related situations so it's quite a good background to know and talk to people about the situations but it's um i realized when i worked i did selection recruitment and it didn't hit those spots that I really wanted. I wanted much deeper connection and being able to help people really on a much deeper level.

So, yeah, I moved on from that. But I guess, you know, whatever you ever learn, you will never forget. So in some ways, I love that. I've never I've never heard that phrase before I really like that but um it isn't actually something we've spoken about in the podcast so far for those that are listening that might not know what it involves could you briefly guide us through what occupational psychology is okay so um it is really everything to do with human and work. So it is really starts from something even basics like, you know, thinking about usability of things.

You know how I don't know. I've got this microphone in front of me. And how usable is it for for me me for example how it works so you know it's it covers so many things and then going into work well-being organizational changes and you know leading that kind of changes and so it covers so many from the individual level really to bigger kind of more social sort of organizational um things and um yes and so I I did um I did selection I did career counseling coaching this was a bit so originally I'm from Finland and then we spoke a little bit before this that I started my training here and then I moved to Finland and I moved to work in a job centre in Finland. And all the job centres in Finland got psychologists in them who are helping people with their careers and career changes or finding your first career. And so on. This was even set up like after the war because they wanted really, I guess, make best use of the workforce. And yeah, now I was doing selection, but also helping people with their careers and thinking about careers and all of that kind of stuff so there are so many

different really areas to occupational psychology and if anyone is really interested in you know whether it's work well-being or all of these kind of things it's it's a really good option thank you and i just love learning about things and learning about people and I did not know that about Finland that they've got psychologists in their job offices that sounds like such well it makes sense doesn't it but it sounds like such a great idea yeah absolutely brilliant but so you're a counselling psychologist um a chartered one as well, which for those who are listening means that you are registered with the British Psychological Society. But of course, what we know about counselling psychologists is that it's a protected title. So you'll also need to be

registered with the HCPC too. Yes, yes, absolutely. Lovely. Thank you very much for that. Whilst we're discussing the HCPC, I don't know if you find this as well, but when they take their subs out from me, I think it's a few times a year, they seem to just take it, but they do not send me an invoice. They do not send me a receipt. And I'm like, how am I going to square that with my accountant? Like like where do I go with that yeah no it's it's like a bit of a secret society in some ways and you hear maybe a couple emails come once in a blue moon but there's not much communication with them and I think that's why I've stayed with the BPS is because um I guess I felt well well I'll tell you what when I was in Finland for that about five year period or so, the Finnish equivalent, that society, the psychological society became really like a place, you know, it's almost like a family.

I lived in a small place and I was invited to go to their meetings and then I became part active part of them and also when I was then trying to get my qualifications kind of transferred over and what have you and I was even in you know contact with their president and all of that and he was helping me so it became such a community and I felt like you know this is like exactly what you need in your life professionally not obviously the BPS is not quite the same you know much bigger organization and and so on but I felt that I needed to belong somewhere because otherwise you know especially now working in private practice not part of a bigger organization And the HCPC is just somewhere there really far, you know, in the background. And it feels like there's no connection to that at all.

And that's why I really, you know, to be honest, I wanted to stay with the BPS because I thought that, well, at least there's someone who will recognize that my qualifications and or you know if something happened hopefully i could turn to them for advice yeah i agree hcpc take the money and if there's any problems with our professional registration or someone complains about anything we're doing or or some of our colleagues are doing then they're there for that regard um but there's not much going on other than that and so it's yeah I think it's especially when you're in private practice it's about feeling like you're part of a club or something you know there's other people that get you and that's what I really like about our qualified group as well um but also I know that people listening to this will really value that support from from their peers as aspiring psychologists as well.

It's about finding your tribe, isn't it? And feeling not so vulnerable in any of the positions we're in. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's really important. And that's why the psychology network, the online network has been so important because over the years I mean you've probably been there more or less from the beginning of a certain website Facebook group being being there and it's just you wanted to know that there's someone who you can go to and ask I mean yes you've got your supervisors but it's not the same you don't get the same instant you know response whereas if you post a question whatever it is you'll get you're likely to get some sort of answer within minutes almost and um and different perspectives as well because of course in the supervisory role it's you know it's just one person potentially um and there might be different views from and different knowledge obviously that

different people share so yeah it's really important yeah and i think we were just talking because we've got um similar professional um clinical interests in kind of trauma and stuff and we were just thinking together about the i guess the impact of precarious trauma, weren't we, on us as individuals, on us as parents, on us as partners, on us as friends. And, you know, we're recording this at the time where there's been some horrendous atrocities in Israel over the weekend and it's really a very moving time for so many people either because of their friends and family connections or just because of the things they've been witnessing and we were talking about yeah how we kind of draw limits around our incredibly empathic hearts really so that we don't burn out what how do you do that for yourself

well i i think this has become even more and more important i think um over you know in my career like i was mentioned earlier on that i've entered a phase in life where i have small kids i had them quite late but also i'm in perimenopause which I know now that hormonal changes will impact also I mean I have been a highly sensitive person in the past but on top of that is the hormonal changes I think just more kind of feel things so I've had to draw limits to the amount of information I consume. Whereas maybe before I would watch the news a lot, but I've had to really limit it and knowing where to go

and really limiting the number of clients you can see. Because when you're talking about trauma, you just can't be doing it to, I don't know how many you know like six six clients a day or something like that I mean I think at the minute my ideal number probably would be like two clients a day or something like that you know because if I see four clients even in the day I notice in the evening that I'm super tired and then it's a lot more difficult to be with the family even and they kind of whatever the kids you know squabbles and so on yeah it's in the limits are really important but also looking after myself in other ways in in really lifestyle it has to sort of

support everything and it's much more important that in in my early 30s I would have ever imagined. And I suppose it's years of really doing just mostly trauma work. It's tough going. So I really need to have those boundaries and look after myself and it's not always a therapist often are not the the people who remember to look after themselves first so it needs to be like you need to be kind of drumming into your own head that you know I need to look after me first so that then I can do this work and be of service to other people absolutely I. I think it's really tricky, isn't it? Because you and I are obviously a sort of established stage of our career

and we're both working independently. And so we kind of can design our days around ourselves and to make sure we're not going to burn out, you know, either in terms of empathy or in terms of our mental health. But for many of our listeners, you know know they are in really high-paced you know understaffed over subscribed services where they are having to do many many sessions a day and possibly not all massively traumatic but I still you know remember when I was in the NHS I was having to see um or forward slash choosing to see in terms of my job five clients a day um you know what is

it seven a half hour day including a lunch break that's it is a lot and I know people listening to this will be feeling really strung out you know and really overstretched it's such a tricky job that we do and I think we don't always or it's not appreciated what a difficult you're taking someone else you are living someone else's pain for that time and your nervous system you're helping them to regulate so you're not just there as a kind of like almost like detached person at least you know I feel that my clients probably get a lot more focus time from me for much longer time than anyone else in my life. Because there's always other distractions and what have you. But when I'm with a client, I'm super focused.

And I also do have a bit of an ADHD brain. So I need to be focused. And that's why, like, and I can be in that space because it is nothing else apart from me and the client. But it's, yeah, it can be really, it can become draining. And yeah, it's really important to look after oneself. You're so right. You know, the idea that I would even spend 50 minutes of focused attention on one of my children or my husband you know they would

be like what's going on it's hard I do try to build in five minutes at the end of the day to have focused time with each one of my two children but it is hard when you are at the end of a busy day and perhaps our window of tolerance is more squeezed and you're just like ready to race to the finish line so you could just sit and not be needed by anyone it's it's a tricky balance absolutely absolutely yeah exactly I do the same the bedtime is in some ways my favorite time as long as everyone's quiet and in bed and then we can have a you know I read to my younger one and then my older one I usually go and and he wants me to be with him whilst he reads so I read my own book next to him but it's like we have together but there's something about the kind of bodily you know regulation and we are um being instead of just doing together um and obviously trying

to catch up moments and and kind of few minutes of sort of one-to-one attention throughout the or during the day maybe in the morning or in the evening but um yeah otherwise it's you know with with the client it's that time they are with you. It's so focused. Thank you. I love that idea. So we've got children that are a similar age and we have recently switched to sort of doing stories with the younger one and then giving the older one a slightly later bedtime, but still quiet time in his room.

But I love the idea of actually just snuggling down and reading together in sort of companionable silence I might well see if I can introduce that so we do try and have sort of protected time where we'll chat about the favorite part and least favorite parts of our days but I love I love reading actually so I yeah I do usually just do that before I go to sleep but yeah I like that idea so thank you that will that will percolate through my brain and hopefully trickle through to my practice as well with my children practice you know it feels like practice some other time doesn't it yeah yeah yeah absolutely no it's yeah it's it's I mean he initiated and he's been asking for it and then we're going through different phases but I think

there is something about just that one-on-one time because they don't get that much time whilst they're in school and and so on so it's the evening and I suppose preparation for the the separation when you're asleep and and so on and just kind of being there together but being together doesn't always mean that you're communicating through um you know, with your words. It can mean just existing and being and your body is touching even. Thank you. And as you spoke, I was wondering about Finnish culture, really. I really don't know anything at all apart from Finland.

Apart from I went to university with someone who was Finnish and had a very very marvellous feather coat because he told me it was very very cold in Finland but other than that I think I don't know anything would you be able to guide us through just a little tiny potted history about what it means to you to be Finnish? Okay well I guess the first thing that comes to my mind is the nature, the connecting with nature in a completely different way. If you live in a country now and, you know, that might be your life kind of thing. But it's basically the country of thousands of lakes, like so many. And the nature is literally on your doorstep. And whilst British people talk a lot about the weather and so on,

but I think in Finland you pay even more attention to the changes in the nature. And so obviously four seasons, you get proper, proper winters. The spring and the summer, it varies, can be a little bit like here sometimes it's hot sometimes it's not so you know varies and autumn obviously um and then I guess one thing that is about the the sun that in uh in the winter there's less sun and then in the summer there's so much sun that the you know that just um yeah you you go to bed or or even at well say two o'clock in the morning it's like at daytime so um it's you know the nature is amazing in terms of the culture I think the culture has been reflected a lot on this and coming away is easier to reflect when you are in

the culture. The Second World War definitely and the kind of war times and we were at one point, we were part of Russia and then we were part of Sweden and then Russia tried to take over, you know, and there was, you know, all of that sort of you know many many many we've been independent now for 100 and whatever you know um over 100 years um that so all of that i think there is a lot of trauma that our for example my generation my my parents and obviously grandparents went through the, you know, my hometown was the, what do you call it, headquarters for the army. So during the Second World War. So there's a lot of stories that I heard as a kid about, you know, all sorts of things going on. So I think there was a lot of that. And that has in the culture has definitely left scars and now it's nice to see

that the younger generation you know because it obviously takes a few generations to kind of come out hopefully you know the ones who are in their 20s and at least we've had you know au pairs and young women and what have you and and I think they seem to have a different energy probably when you're 20 anyway you've got different energy to to when you're 40s but uh so there's been a lot of that historical kind of trauma and um and i think kind of what's about i mean a lot of this sort of you know studies or or this kind of happiness measurements and so on they've rated Finland really high but a Finnish person would never say I'm so happy because I think it comes from this sort of contentment in your life on the of you know we have a very large middle middle class so we don't

have very many people who are right on the top and you know it's not as hierarchical that way. And the sort of, you know, the state looks after people well. People obviously complaining always because, you know, nothing's perfect. But so there is that. So there is quite a wealthy society, small society, because there's only 5.5 million, 5.4 million. So, you know, less than in London. and you can imagine when you've got so few people it's a lot easier to manage um schooling is good or you know like health care all of that kind of stuff and but it's I think generally what used to be that the nature of people is that you have to be quite humble don't put yourself up too much so you know all of the marketing that I've done in my private practice I've had to do a lot of work you know in terms of showing up and

putting yourself forward and what does that mean and because you're not really supposed to yeah I think the nature then you know being close to nature is really important. Thank you so much for illuminating us a little bit on Finnish culture, because, you know, it's not something that many of us probably know that much about. So, yeah, thank you for sharing those insights with us. It sounds like a wonderful place to grow up, actually. But yeah, like you said, so much smaller than the UK. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I must not forget is that Santa lives in Lapland which is obviously part of Lapland you know Lapland covers four countries but a big part of it is in Finland so I have to do a bit of advertising for them yeah amazing so yeah we're just now conjuring up exactly how cold and snowy

that becomes at times okay thank you and now you've got quite a unique niche haven't you um that you're working in and um I first considered reaching out to you for the podcast because of a hilarious meme that I'd put together one day thinking about how when we're dating as psychologists um you know you start to think about um Maslow's hierarchy of needs and you know it was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek post but it really did get me thinking about you and your work and how we go about choosing a good enough forward slash brilliant partner for ourselves could you tell us a bit about your niche Marie? Yeah so I've talked about my trauma work so actually I have two businesses which I've separated and why I've separated them is because I have those clients

who very much come with the trauma history and they want to work on that whether it's child denomination or neglect you know mother wound is the key word for a lot of the clients that I work with in terms of therapy but then I wanted to really start you know doing something as a little bit more you know lighter more fun and what do I love I mean I you know I love talking about relationships and even those you know over the years with therapy clients many who were in that place or whether it was that they were recovering from toxic relationships or they were wanting to meet someone or what have you. And I realized that actually, you know, there's a niche there in itself, dating, when you come out of that and when you're more focused on coaching so when we think about how to go about finding someone who is compatible but everything starts from within like in anything else it starts from within knowing oneself knowing who you truly are what you want in life in relationships and also knowing

your history of course your attachment adaptation and understanding what it is that you need in a relationship and how to communicate that even when you are dating so it's not as simple as um you know like most people I used to do this too is that you you know you go out there and you start meeting people and then you hope for the best, fingers crossed. And most of the time, nothing kind of comes out of it. And depending on your relationship history in terms of your early relationships and what you learned about yourself and about relationships, and even your later relationships as an adult, you might be drawn to certain dynamics if you're not aware what the pull is.

And even if you're aware, you might still end up in the in the place where you're replicating the same dynamic you had in your early relationships. So everything starts from you. But then also you need to work through perhaps those things that are holding you back, whether in terms of confidence and going and meeting people. You need to work through also if you have those pulls towards certain type of people. So you need to kind of the internal dialogue. You need to be aware of it. And you need to nurture the parts of you that maybe didn't get nurtured in your earlier relationships or in your kind of childhood relationships and so self-love is a massive piece of this work and and only when you're dated from a place of that you're filling your own cup and you are kind of your focus is on you rather than

someone else you know um completing you because often what happens is that many people they meet someone and i mean this is what i learned as when i worked as uh you know with couples or or in helping individuals with their relationships that's often there is that hope and wish and kind of you know you're demanding the other to complete you you know that but in fact you are separate entities and you need to learn to really nurture yourself and only when you're sort of when you can look after your own needs first then you can go into a relationship with someone else then you can yes co-regulate each other, but it's not dependent. Your happiness is not dependent on the other or how they are.

So it's when you are dating from a place of I have enough, then you are also likely to attract someone who thinks in the same way. I really agree. And so many of the clients I work with who might be single are almost looking for a partner to fix themselves and then to start their lives. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, we've really got to work on you enjoying your life, finding joy in your life, thinking that you are worthwhile and that you're a good person to spend time with rather than thinking that somebody else is going to do that for you because then and I think it's something that is really important as a parent as well raising children that you know they need to feel like they are worthy not just that they you know need to be grateful because you know so and so has paid them attention yeah um you know because it's such a minefield isn't it absolutely yeah as a parent I think you know doing this trauma work and and and hearing so many

stories of people when they really didn't get enough you know they are no perfect parents but when they really didn't get enough and then there's always the the feeling like I'm not enough and I need someone to complete me. And then so being as a parent, it feels that there's quite a lot of pressure in some ways. But, you know, at the same time, I've said to many clients who become parents, it's like self-compassion is your biggest tool as a parent. Because there are no perfect parents and we all make mistakes. But what's important is that you're kind to yourself and you acknowledge your mistakes and you repair the relationship and that way also your child

learns about repairing the relationship in the future such important words you know and still now even with my husband I've been married 11 years um together 14 and I've been a parent for 10 years you know I'm still always thinking gosh I didn't I didn't do that brilliantly I'm gonna need to repair this rupture because that's important to me and it it paves the way and I think in terms of my relationship with my husband I also sometimes need to remind myself that he's not a mind reader it's not acceptable to you know for him to imagine or hope that he will be one and I can't really just be disappointed ethically if I haven't communicated my own needs that's been one of my learning points over the last 13 14 years I think yeah I think many times girls especially have grown up not really expressing their needs.

And and then there's always been this this kind of this fantasy of the partner who knows exactly what I'm thinking. And so many even male clients come and say, my wife, you know, says that I should know what she's thinking. So, well, I tried to I tried to study humans and I still can't I can't you know I don't know what anyone what's going on in anyone's mind that we need to learn to express and uh and for many people it is difficult but even going into dating situations is many times it's difficult to express oneself there and communicate what is it that I want in the relationship instead of just hoping that hopefully the other person wants the same and without these important conversations we don't know is it going in the right direction

or is it not going in the right direction and uh yeah absolutely it's it's so important and for women especially to communicate what we want and what we need because it's not clear and and i think men's men men's thinking the way they think is very much more straightforward in some ways so if it's not on the radar it's not on the radar so that's why it needs to be and you know many times men have said and I think my husband as well that you know you need to be you need to be clear I don't know unless you're clear then I can do whatever but um if it's not clear it's really tricky to navigate really important stuff and I know you've got a podcast as well that that talks through some of these I know you've got a podcast as well that

that talks through some of these issues could you tell us a bit about that yeah so it's called how to love successfully and it's focused on dating specifically well dating and kind of well-being you know it's it's not just about relationships I mean so when I started to focus on trauma, I came across a lot of somatic therapies and did some training and so on. So all of this body based stuff really spoke to me. And I want to bring a little bit of that to the podcast, too, because we are these physical beings. We we you know, I used to be certain just living in my head completely disconnected from my body and and I find that this is the case with a lot of people on the whole so really understanding not only our thoughts but really what goes on in the body and

kind of making the connections whether you are dating in the relationships just living your life really you need to know what's going on in your body because of course your emotions live in your body so yeah so I invite guests and we talk about relationships from different angles but I also do individual or like solo episodes and talk about different dating dating kind of related topics and and so on where can people listen to the podcast if they'd like to take a listen so the easiest way perhaps is to find via my website so it's drmarie coveningcoaching.com forward slash podcast and then also i have a youtube channel which is called how to love successfully so you can find there too if you want to listen and watch on on youtube i'll give you all the links so you can put them in the show notes

yes i will indeed so before we finish could you offer our listeners, you know, your top tip for perhaps reducing burnout on the way to a career as being a psychologist would be marvellous. Oh, my goodness. This is a thing for all of us in different stages of our lives and and yes I do remember how it was then you know aspiring to be a psychologist and and maybe sometimes you know there was that sort of questioning whether will it ever happen and I guess it's sometimes it's about honoring well a lot of times it's about honoring our feelings and not trying to deny that but just mindfully observe and being with and noticing that and really having in life other things too. So I can understand that they work and if you are, as an assistant psychologist and whatever you're doing right now life is probably

very busy and like you were mentioning earlier on that you know work in the nhs and all of that kind of stuff but really focusing on having fun things outside there is life beyond the the work life and life is you know i notice it myself now being middle-aged that it goes so fast and if you just focus on career like I did for many years I feel so it's about kind of grabbing those small moments and trying to be in the moment but also you know acknowledging if you're having a difficult time and it's difficult to trust whether you'll get to this career that you want to do there's always a way there's always I mean I think that's what I've learned in life is that whatever even if it's not the path that I initially thought there's maybe a round trip that can help me to get where I need

to go so that's what I would say really. love that. I've not heard that before either. So it might not be the path, but it might be like, you know, a looping road that helps you learn something that's useful for your actual journey. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's made my day. I will use that with clients in the future. So, yeah, we've got your website and that will be in the show notes and we've got your YouTube channel that will be in the show notes. You're also on LinkedIn and on Instagram. So I know we discussed beforehand that you're Dr. Mari Covenant on LinkedIn and you are Dr. Mari Covenant Coaching on Instagram.

That's right. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you so much for your time and helping us learn about so many important topics. You know know occupational psychology a bit about counselling psychology a bit about Finnish culture of course yourself and your very interesting niche as a dating coach. Oh thank you so much it's been such a fun conversation and it's all it's been so lovely also to speak with you really now in person, because, you know, it's almost like you watch someone's videos for a long time.

It's almost like you get to know them, but you don't really know them and you haven't exchanged, you know, or had had a conversation. But, yeah, it's been really lovely to connect with you today and share something to your audience. Thank you so much. it's been such a pleasure and please let me know if i can help with anything in future oh thank you so much it's been really lovely oh what an absolute pleasure to speak to dr marie covenan i hope you found our conversation nourishing and wholesome and that it's given you lots of interesting points to reflect upon. Please do come and let me know what you think to the episode, which you can do by coming along to the Aspiring Psychologist Community free Facebook group. My next live compassionate Q&A date is on Tuesday the 7th of November at 6pm and that will be running across all of my socials

so that's where you can catch the live one but don't forget those replay ones are available on my YouTube channel too the easiest way to do that is to go to Dr Marianne Trent click on the live tab and then you should be able to see them there but you can also look at the playlist which you can access by clicking any of the links in my social media bios and of course do consider the aspiring psychologist collective book and the clinical psychologist collective book thank you so much for being part of my world please do let me know what you think to this episode. And yeah, thank you so much for being part of my world. I will look forward to coming along with the next episode of the podcast from 6am on Monday. Take care, be kind to yourselves, and I'll see you very soon. With this podcast I feel sad, you'll be on your way to being qualified.

It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. With Dr. Marianne Trent. My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological wellbeing practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself so if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will will be okay but trust me you will not put the book down once you start