The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Do You Have to Drive to Be a Psychologist? Hidden Discrimination in Mental Health Employment?

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Is a driving licence an essential requirement to become a psychologist, or is it a hidden barrier that excludes talented individuals from progressing in their careers? In this episode of The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, Dr Marianne Trent is joined by Jake, an aspiring psychologist, to unpack the real-world challenges of not being able to drive in a profession where mobility is often assumed. They explore the rising costs of driving, generational differences, privilege, and what the profession needs to consider to become more inclusive. This episode is especially relevant for aspiring psychologists, DClinPsy applicants, and anyone interested in widening access to psychology careers.🎙️ Timestamps:00:00 – Introduction01:01 – Meet Jake & Episode Background02:34 – Driving & Privilege: Generational Perspectives05:27 – How Marianne Passed Her Driving Test06:25 – Barriers to Driving Today08:01 – Entry-Level Psychology Salaries & the Impact of Driving10:47 – Reliable vs Flashy Cars: Reframing the Expectation13:36 – Financial Burdens of Driving for Young People16:13 – Comparing the Costs: Then vs Now17:18 – The Gap Between Motivation & Opportunity18:22 – The Licence Requirement: Discrimination in Disguise?20:13 – Jake’s Journey Through University & Setbacks23:48 – The Moment He Realised Driving Was a Barrier26:36 – Uber as a Solution & Placement Accessibility28:45 – Could NHS Offer Pool Cars?30:33 – The Need for Realistic Job Expectations34:18 – Thoughts on Kirstie Allsopp’s Infamous Comments36:43 – Pandemic’s Lasting Impact on Young Adults38:00 – Final Reflections & Call to Action#PsychologyCareers #AspiringPsychologist #DrivingInPsychology #DClinPsyLinks:🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97 💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested🖥️ Check out my brand new short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/short-courses✍️ Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/supervision📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent💬 To join my free Facebook group and discuss your thoughts on this episode and more: https://www.facebook.com/groups/aspiringpsychologistcommunityLike, Comment, Subscribe & get involved:If you...

Is being able to drive a car essential to becoming a psychologist, or is it just another hidden barrier? In this episode, we are unpacking a topic that's been frustrating and excluding many aspiring psychologists. Whether it's disability, cost of lessons, or the lasting impact of the pandemic, we are talking about the real life consequences of driving being perhaps an unofficial requirement for progressing in psychology careers. Hope you find it really useful. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist, and I speak to you as a psychologist who has

a driving licence and her own car. That is something I have had since I was an aspiring psychologist. I passed my driving test when I was age 19 in the summer of my first year undergraduate. It definitely had not come that easy to me and it was something that I spent a lot of money, a lot of time and three driving tests to perfect.

Today's podcast episode has come about as a result of me engaging with stuff on LinkedIn. I will tell you more about how this has unfolded as me and my guest Jake talk today but it's probably worth me saying if you have a suggestion for an episode for the podcast please do get in contact with me, pitch it to me or engage with me on socials and I might well suggest an episode to you too. Let's dive into our interview with Jake and I will see you on the other side. Just want to welcome our guest along today, Jake.

Hi Jake. Hi. How are you? I'm really well. Thank you for asking. I hope you are okay too. Thank you for reaching out to me to kind of discuss but to hold me accountable actually because I am quite opinionated about a number of different things and yeah sometimes I need to check my privilege

and so I think this is a really helpful episode that's kind of come off the back of our private DMs and I never meant to offend you, I never meant to offend anybody else, but I still believe there are real advantages to being able to drive, not just in psychology, but generally. Absolutely, I do appreciate that's a kind of privileged position and that that does mean that it takes a lot of different factors to bring to fruition. So does it feel okay for you to give us a little bit of context about why what I'd said on this LinkedIn post had kind of irked you? On the LinkedIn post, it kind of irked me

because what I see is a very traditional view from the older generation. I don't wanna put it as as older because you're not old. But you know what I mean. Waving a bit of privilege aside of how you raise working class, middle class, upper class. Driving wasn't really a barrier back then because like the post said, you just work at boots and you earn money and you can get a car at 17. Unfortunately, that's just not the case at the moment. You can do it if you've got nothing else to pay for or think about and you can do it if you want to put most your income in that. But the amount of people that I do know that have cars and driving

cars, it takes up a good portion of their income and they don't have to worry about entering the psychology sector itself. Like for me to afford a car I'd have to think about I need to get an un-psychology related job so I can have the pay of an assistant psychologist for now to be able to afford a car but I can't. So yeah it's more of a generational situation rather than what I think is traditional situation rather than what I think is a classist perspective, because you can talk to working class parents or whoever and they'll have the same view as like, why don't you just work harder or hard enough and you'll get it because it's so fantastic, it's a great opportunity and I feel like that's a lot of what happens with this generation is if we're not doing something, it's seen as lazy. Laziness is a very typical way, but I don't think it's quite laziness.

It's a lack of motivation or understanding of the benefits, which it's not. It's capability. We're unable to do it because there's no opportunity and capability unless you're very privileged to or in a previous generation. Yeah, I hear you. And I think the mention to boots that you made was that I'd said, actually, I did pay for my own lessons. But like you said, I was living at my parents house at the time I was doing my A levels. I didn't need to pay rent, for example.

I didn't need to buy my own food. I did latterly. They did charge me rent once I came back after uni. But I appreciate that that is a privileged position, that not everyone is in that position. And some households actually, when their 16-year-old goes out to work, even when they're in full-time education, they need some of that money to support the household finances. And I do appreciate that most of my money went on HMV and Pizza Hut, driving

lessons, and kind of getting covert pints from the pub, you know, because I was, I mean, I'm a June baby. So I'm a, I'm a, I'm a summer baby late, late turning 18. But yeah, that is a different position. So really, I had to ring fence my driving lessons. And the rest was, was for me to buy what we those times called going out trousers and going out tops, like, which is like a whole world away, because I am actually a huge amount older than you. I'm 43 Jake. And so this is a very different time that I was raised in. And I think that's important that we recognize that. Whereas yeah, if someone's having to contribute, that of course then does diminish their ability

to be able to pay. It took me a long time to drive Jake. so I had my first lesson on my 17th birthday which was June the 19th and it took me until I was 19, summer of 19, so it took me two years to pass and three attempts I passed on my third attempt and yeah I've spent a lot of money on driving but I do appreciate that I didn't have other overheads at that time. Yeah I think it's a difficult one as well because even you throughout your career and even just in driving lessons you had to work really hard to get that and manage your finances to be able to. Like overhead costs are not like you still had to work hard and it feels like it's the same climate now as it was then

probably to that generation but it's not and it feels like it's the same climate now as it was then probably to that generation. But it's not and it's rapidly changed in the last five years since COVID of what should be a minimum lifestyle or not. So for me, I'm lucky and fortunate enough I don't have to pay any rent. I know that's a privilege I have and I know it's something that gives me a greater chance than other people that will. I don't know, tomorrow I might have to because as much as financially I'm okay at home, I don't know the family situation at any point so I've got to think about that. But yeah, I recognise the privilege that I do have, especially like transitioning from, I say, a higher working

class background to a lower middle class in the time I've gone to uni and come back. But these barriers are here and affecting me and I feel like I'm the minimum of what could just about get by in a clinical psychologist career path these days. I can't even imagine how horrible seeing the driving license requirement on top of everything would be for someone else that has to pay rent or can't afford to volunteer twice a week, you know. It's all a different perspective and it's cost of living that's driving this unfortunately. Yeah my first kind of relevant experience role paid me 13,000 pounds a year. Obviously is not a big amount of money and yeah

that's basically what my salary was until I got on training. It kind of all my band four roles were paying around that but like you said I didn't have any other expenses to find. I think my first job where I actually needed to drive was when I was a home carer. I think that paid me £5.50 an hour. I loved that work and I actually learned so much about dignity, about respect, about forming lasting kind of relationships that allow me to do my job in a way that really honors the person receiving that care. And I would not have been able to do that job, which I see as a gateway job to then my relevant experience roles. Had I not had

my driving license, my children still find it hilarious that mommy was a home carer because they're like, Oh, you wet people's bums. Yeah, I did. And I'm proud to have done it. Like, I loved it. And I would, if I needed to, I'd go and do it again, because I learned so much. And it's, it was such a lovely way of having relationships with people. Because I wasn't just doing it for the money. Because I think often a lot of the roles that we do do,

you're not driven by money. If you're driven by solely money, you go off and do something in a corporate industry, not in kind of mental health. So yeah, like it's, I guess for me, there are benefits to being able to drive. So when I've been in community settings, even when I've been an assistant, when I was working as a rehab assistant in Milton Keynes, I was able to get out to the disadvantaged communities where I was working. You know, if I'd had to wait for kind of buses, I might have seen two clients in a day. Like, there are advantages. And at that point, actually, Milton Keynes Council used to pay me as an essential car user. So I would get an amount of money per month to keep my car on the road and to pay towards my insurance. And also, I would then get my mileage paid as well. So that,

you know, I think other places where they have essential car users probably do still give essential car user allowances. But I appreciate even having being able to have that car users probably do still give essential car user allowances. But I appreciate even having being able to have that car to begin with. And my cars were not shiny. They were not fancy. Even now I drive a car that is a 62 plate. So I'm not driven by shiny, really super modern cars. My first car was a Citroen AX, an e-reg Citroen AX. It was tiny, it was like a little box. I shared it with my brother. But again, like you said, if your family don't already have a car,

or if there isn't a sibling that's already got a car you can share, getting that first car that cost £900 at the time is a barrier. But then that said my mum recently sold her car and it was still in working condition, it was still really good. It was probably similar age to mine. She sold that for 700 pounds and that would have made an ideal first car. So kind of comparatively, and that was a way nicer car than my first car was, comparatively there are still options for first cars which are more affordable. My children watch a lot of YouTube. And they're like, well, I'd like my first car to be a Bugatti. And I'm like, yeah, that's, that's not

really that realistic. You know, so I guess it's thinking about what I staying within our means, it's really tricky. You know, I don't have a nicer car because, you know, I don't want to be spending 60, 70 grand or paying 500 pounds a month every month towards a car. Does that make sense? I like to kind of own what I have and for the moment, this is the best I can do and it's still reliable. I think there's a lot to be said for having a car that is reliable, and keeping with that

rather than buying something that you don't know the history of. But yeah, there are there are benefits to being able to drive and being able to get yourself to these work environments. I grew up in a rural location. If I'd only been able to get where I could walk, my options for progressing in psychology would have been that much more reduced. Yeah, going to the first thing you said is you're going into this career not for the money. I get paid weekly on a Friday and I woke up and saw this morning I got paid and it's like,

oh I've got paid for that, you know? It's a weird feeling because when you're working you're not thinking by looking at the clock and what am I getting paid this hour? Because that's how I was thinking when I was working as a sales assistant. I was like, okay another hour I get whatever the wage is. When I'm there working in the school, I'm just like, okay, I've just done the day, you know, and you're thinking about what you're getting out of it, what you're doing for them. It's a completely different experience. About the car stuff, which is obviously the most important part of this, I think the hardest part which is obviously the most important part of this. I think the hardest part to understand is the difference between the generations

is the fact of the prices adjusted to inflation and the cost of living climate at the moment. Because although you went for a car that's not flashy and just got the job done, there's no incentive in me that wants a flashy car, you know, and there's nothing in me that goes well I want a Bugatti, I want an Audi, I want a Mercedes. I just want a car to be able to drive, to be able to work or get about and have a bit of freedom. And a lot of what's going on is we don't have that freedom because what car was £900 now is worth more than that

unless it breaks down tomorrow the day after you buy it because the prices of the stuff inside the car itself is worth more than that and it's not just the car price it's the insurance it's the lessons and the tests, you know. Have you priced up insurance? How much is insurance for a young driver at the moment? So I've looked up the statistics on this because this is a thing that I do. I know it's so much money that I can't afford

and I would love to drive and I've always liked cars as a kid, but I don't want to look at it because it's depressing I just hear my friends talk about it I'm like yeah that's I've got no chance you know um but the statistics say since covid it's gone up 84% the price of insurance lessons after covid add up to two thousand pounds if you have 45 of them, which is what the website said the average was. I don't want to look into it more because it frightens me and it makes me a little bit unsure about my future. And the total cost of the first year of driving of 17 to 21 year olds is £7,600 a year compared to £1,285 which was in 1985. And this is the hardest part to comprehend.

We think of £1,285 as that's a comparison but adjusted to inflation that's £3,234. Even though adjusted to inflation it's worth more money, that's still 135% increase in price of the first year of a car. And that's aside from the other cost of living that's going on. Everything's more expensive to get food to go out. I personally can't afford to go out very often at all. It'd have to be once every two weekends and that's not going out drinking.

I can't do that for my health. That's going out for a meal. That's the difference in lifestyles. I hadn't considered insurance and actually, yes, privileged me. My dad paid my insurance. So bought us the car to share and paid for the insurance. And I do appreciate that is

that is not everyone's reality. What I would say is my insurance has always been about £400 like it still is now and it was then at that time when I first had to take it on myself that was like how much you know that's a huge amount of money. But it's roughly stayed the same. I don't know why. I don't know why, but it always has. Yeah, it is a lot of money. It's, you know, I guess, similar to the kind of rental argument, like, and the house deposit argument. It's a big chunk of money to be able to find as a deposit even. Even for renting you've got to be able to pay sometimes a couple of months upfront as your deposit. Like

how do you begin to be able to kind of accumulate that sort of reserve? Especially if you're for health reasons only able to work part-time. Yeah I'm literally baffled. I don't know myself what the answer is. I just work as hard as I can, do everything I can do with my time and see where I end up, you know. You're not the average applicant because when we were speaking just before we hit record,

you shared with me that you ended up with a first-class degree, which really began to make you think, oh, maybe this could be my career. Clearly I've got a passion and an aptitude for that. And now you, yeah, it feels like a barrier to be able to get these jobs and progress on to becoming a trainee because many courses do have an essential requirement that you take your driving licence with you to the course. And in order to even be seen for interview, you have to submit your driving license with you to the course and in order to even be seen for

interview you have to submit your driving license and some people have been turned away from doctorate interviews because they either forgot their license, their license was invalid or they didn't have a license. This changes lives. Yeah there's a lot of context to go through here even where I work now there's still pokes every to go through here, even where I work now. There's still pokes every so often of have you got your driving licence? Why don't you drive here? It's so difficult to get here. But at the end of the day, I don't need to. I'm the first person there every single day. I've never been delayed because I take the earlier bus.

And I've still had that judged against me, that I don't have a license, therefore reliability or whatever if it rubs off on motivation, which it does a lot on younger people, then it rubs off as a lack of motivation, but I know that's the furthest from the truth. So before I went to university, I've had no idea what to expect from it

because that's just not my background. My parents didn't go to university. My mum did when she was 40 to do a teaching degree, which is completely different. But we had no understanding of what to do. I have a twin sister who went to the University of Nottingham. I went to Nottingham Trent. We just, I just went there because I liked the city. I didn't know it was BPS accredited, so I was like, yeah, OK, I'll do this.

And I've always had a very big passion for psychology, and that's what I focused on my whole life. And I was like, if I do this, I'm going to get a job at it after. That wasn't the straightforward case. I went months unemployed, you know, which is really depressing to go through, especially when I've like had so many personal battles to go through, which are different to others. I've had multiple surgeries during the first year of my university life, which was combined with COVID as well. So

I wasn't even in the accommodation for more than let's say, two, three months when that was supposed to be a massive experience. And the quality of education was very poor because it was all virtual and I had to learn what I missed in first year and second and third year. It felt like. So I got through first year with a 2-1. Second year everything started opening up again in COVID but it's still online learning. I missed a lot of the real... I get more out of being somewhere than learning it virtually, which I think most people do. And I still had holes from the first year. made me very vulnerable to being ill all the time when everything got opened up again. And my mental health completely declined and deteriorated, which just got on top of everything. I had symptom flare ups and other health conditions. It was really, really, really a hard and low

moment. I think my health conditions aside, I think a lot of people went through that in first and second year and the same start to uni in 2020 because of the experience. And then in third year, between second and third year I worked as a research assistant at the uni, despite not doing as well as I wanted to and having to have extensions because of my illnesses in second year. I worked as a research assistant, which completely changed everything because I was actually physically there at the uni.

I felt part of it. And it really increased my motivation again and brought back my love for what I was doing. Even though it was there, it wasn't because I didn't feel part of anything. So third year, I started really well as well, doing well on my assignments, really enthusiastic, then all of a sudden I needed a major surgery for my knee because I was unable to walk around at all at that point. That then led me to think, oh I was only going to take like a

month or two to recover, I just have to catch up like I have all my life, which didn't happen. The exhaustion from it because of the intensity of the surgery was incredible that I had to have my year extended into the following year and virtually self-learn everything myself again, like first and second year. That was really mentally draining and exhausting, but yeah, I still got through and I got a first. So I was like, yes, all this stress and issues are relieved from my life. I'm going to have a job. I'm not going to be financially stressed. I'm going to be able to bring my experiences to help as for other people. Experiences that span far beyond just the university experiences. I don't want to downplay them at all because

obviously I'm not getting into them but they're much more intense than that. And be able to share it with other people and I was like I put all my applications that it's been a bit of a struggle and I've done well and surely that looked really good. I got a first like what more could they ask for? It turns out what more they ask for is due to sacrifice having any money and being unemployed for months. And I love volunteering, I do it, but you're required to as well. Otherwise you're stuck.

A lot of people are stuck and they have to look at other careers, no matter how passionate they are at psychology. So now I feel in a position where I can start applying to assistant psychologist jobs. I was really most faces. I was like, yes, I'm finally there. I can do it. I've got a good chance. Now my degree will mean something because I've got the experience to back up that I can do this stuff properly. And then when I opened it, nearly every single post said you're required a driving

license. I was like, where's this come from? You know, it came completely out of the blue. I understand the purpose of it if you need to drive to people's homes, and it's in multiple locations, but some some of it, it was just put on there as a luxury. It wasn't a necessity. And that luxury, I don't think that people making a post have the understanding of how discriminatory that is to really put there to people, say in my situations or other backgrounds, where they've had to take massive pay cuts and have done everything they can, have the motivation that

they have the love for psychology, but they can't access it. And I've been in group interviews still for other jobs, as other people where things can be measured that aren't just how much money you have. That's not really, you can't tell that from a job interview. So it can look like a lack of motivation, you know, but it's just very obsessive to have that motivation and drive and work as possible as hard as you possibly can, and then just put a barrier in front of it. I cannot think of how to fund a driving license or driving without having to cancel my volunteering and my work now and work five days a week somewhere else in somewhere I'm not interested in and I'm motivated to work. Corporate work isn't for me, I'd be depressed, I need to give back to people, I need to help people heal and that gives myself energy and

it's just it's not there you know so there really needs to be a rethink on the just being a bit more conscious of what that driving license requirement does. Yeah and I think conversations like this begin to start shaping that narrative so that it's an updated narrative rather than one that worked in the 80s and the 90s and the 2000s. We're now in actually a very different stage of existence. You know my lovely nephew, he is 22 and he doesn't yet drive. Like you said, the pandemic really had got in the way of that, but also it is more expensive. But because he was raised in a city, he's never really needed to do that. Both of his parents drive, grandparents drive and can kind of pick him up or take him places, or he just Ubers, you know, maybe this is the rise of Uber has meant that the

things that you can't get lifts for, you know, even as your friends begin to be able to drive, you know, they will give you lifts places as well. But I understand that there might be a change coming as well with whether when people first pass their test, whether they're allowed to have people five years either side of their age in the car. I don't know if you've heard of that, to increase safety and reduce road deaths is the kind of hope for that agenda. But he doesn't drive. I do wonder. He does like an Uber. I wonder if Uber has almost enabled people to miss out the middleman of driving themselves. But if that's something that you had to do, if you had to visit a client's home, you probably could get an Uber and it would be quicker than you getting yourself there and trying

to work out where to park. And actually in terms of money, sometimes you can get an Uber for like you know five pounds that's like 15, 10 minutes away or whatever. It doesn't necessarily need, now I think about it, to be just you driving your own car does it? And I guess what of course wouldn't want is all of the trainees turning up and none of them being able to drive. But if there were a couple that couldn't drive, then there are always placements where literally you get yourself to point A. And at the end of the day, you leave again from point A. And you're saying, actually,

I'd be fine to do that because I get buses. I can do that. And I'll be there early, actually, because I'm going to get the earlier bus to make sure that I'm not late because this work really matters to me. But when I was a trainee, I worked in a couple of different placements where I had kind of split posts. So I was at Coventry University and my employing base was in Warwick Hospital. And my placement, one half of the placement was in Leamington Spa, which I appreciate if you don't know these places,

it doesn't mean anything to you. And then the other one was in Stratford upon Avon, and I lived in Coventry, so there's like a big patch that I might have been going to and from. That would have been in affordable, especially at peak times to be getting an Uber, even if Uber's existed then. So you would really struggle to do that placement, Jake, without being able to drive. But were there other placements that were just based in one cam service,

for example? Yeah, there were. And could you have potentially been offered one of those? Yeah, there were and could you have potentially been offered one of those? Yes, possibly I guess the problem is because it is so embedded in the system that that Psychology staff can drive and will drive I guess the placements and the job opportunities have kind of that's come about But I guess maybe thinking about solutions Maybe pool cars are an idea so you wouldn't then have to own and ensure your own car. You would have to be able to drive. But if there was a pool car, which is where they're owned by the employer, and you book those out, and you take them, for example, to a client's house, or you take it to a business meeting, and then you bring it back and put it in the cage. That might be more inclusive as an opportunity, but you would still have to be able to drive.

Yeah, of course, that would be the perfect ideal world, but be great for me with the Uber stuff. You just took the thoughts out of my head. That's exactly what I was thinking. I live literally on the border of London and Surrey, so I use TFL and I can get nearly everywhere with it, but say a lot of things can be like an hour and a half journey, but if you look at a drive, it's 25, 30 minutes. And now I look at an Uber and it's about 20 pounds

for that journey. So if that means I can get there, then I can. And it's cheaper than owning a car. And it's not about cutting out the middle man of having to drive or not. It's of literally, can I afford this? Yes or no, I can't afford a car, but I can afford 20 pounds every so often. Or say if I was working on the wage of an assistant psychologist, I could afford it every day to be there because I'm bad because I want to do job, not because of the financial reasons like we said. Yeah.

Yeah, I think there are provisions for people are legally not allowed to drive. So people with that partially sighted, for example, or registered blind, of course, they wouldn't be expected to drive and they can still become psychologists, but there aren't yet, as we're aware, or provisions for people that are physically able to drive but don't. So maybe this is the conversation that needs to be had, that we can't group everybody into the same category anymore. And I know there was Kirsty Alsop from Love It or List It, and what other stuff does she do?

Stuff with Phil. She got in trouble for suggesting that people, young people basically, should just cancel their Netflix subscriptions and not pay for gym memberships or whatever in order to be able to get themselves on the property ladder. And that was very publicly discriminated about and still is the kind of the content of memes. And I don't wanna be like the psychology equivalent

for Kirsty Allsop and I like Kirsty Allsop, but you know, this is what she'd said, she said what she said. I still think driving is a useful skill like it's and as I said on that post it's allowed me to do so many wonderful things Jake you know it's allowed me to on my kind of gap six months go off and drive in New Zealand and drive on the largest sand island in the world Fraser Island and drive on the largest sand island in the world, Fraser Island in Australia. And again, even being able to backpack is privileged, I get that. But I saved the six months to be able to do that. But even being able to drive my children to health appointments,

I had two caesarean sections and I've also broken my arm. And those periods of not being able to drive, because I can usually drive, I found really, really hard. I did actually download and use Uber for the first time during that time when I broke my arm, which was a couple of years ago. Um, and yeah, I've seen, I use Ubers all the time now, whereas until, until I couldn't use my car, I didn't. So I do still use Ubers, but I use my car. You know, like the Joey Tribbiani episode on Friends when he's like, when he can't do what the Joey Tribbiani does, and then when he's allowed to, does he go back to his old ways? Yes, he does.

he does. But I like having Uber as, this should be sponsored by Uber this episode, but it's not. I like having that as an ability to be able to use as and when needed, but I do like and need be able to get my children to their swimming lessons and get myself to the gym and live independently and get my shopping. I find it all easier with a car. So I do work from home these days. But a great majority of the jobs I've had, even as a qualified clinical psychologist, in fact, my first job was working in two settings. One was about 15 miles from the other. So they both needed, that needed me to be able to drive. And then when I worked for the NHS, I worked in a peripatetic manner across four or five different sites on four days a week. So I needed to be able to drive for that as well. So yeah, I don't think there's an easy suggestion. But this is a start, this is a conversation about why can't we give people fixed workplaces, I guess, so that it makes it more accessible for those that don't drive, either because they can't or because they don't choose that for themselves.

Or give them time to be able to learn whilst they're there. A lot of it is such little training for people that haven't been given the opportunity to be trained or experience these things. And I'm also sure if I cancel my £30 gym membership, I'd be able to own a house, you know, the thing that balances my mental health, my physical health and my social life, given that I can't afford to do anything else. I'm sure I'm sure that's the answer, you know? That's why it didn't go down well. It didn't go down well. This isn't frivolous things that people are having. It is actually what makes life livable and enjoyable and copeable with. So yeah, I do agree with that. And those three pound lattes that give me a workspace in a coffee shop. I'm sure if I cancelled that out, it's just life changing. I don't know why I didn't think

about myself. I think it was lattes and avocados, I think she said about at the time. Yeah, it didn't go down well. But thank you so much for contacting me. Thank you so much for holding me accountable. I am not perfect, but I am willing to admit that. And I, every day should be a school day. We should be aware of our vulnerabilities. We should be aware of when we come off like an ass,

like, you know, because I want to make sure that I'm being as inclusive in what I say and what I do. So I'm always wanting to, in terms of my intersectionality, be more aware of my blind spots, but also aware of the fact that I am 43. And I'm having a different experience. I had a different experience of my youth than you are having of yours.

And maybe the two are not comparable in terms of expecting you to be able to drive? I would say it's not comparable to the youth of five years ago, which is even harder to comprehend. And I have a few more comments as well, really. I think there's a big issue with the cost of living and perspective on young people. Like the story you're saying with the guy from Thres who got the stuff taken away from him that would made him him. We haven't had the stuff given to us to make us us. So I think there's a bit of survivorship bias in

all of this. And we're trying so desperately to be able to have those things or know what these things are that we haven't had the opportunity. Absolutely. Like I think had I not been able to go out and do all of the things and really live my life in those formative years, it would have felt like I'd had my wings clipped. And so, you know, this, we thought the pandemic was going to be a few weeks or a few months. And actually, we've just had a five year anniversary, there's still COVID around now, like this is, this has a lasting impact on people. Yeah we tend to forget because it's basically a traumatic event across everyone but it's easier to forget that it didn't

happen or it wasn't so bad because everyone did. But we don't acknowledge how it affects life right now, economically or socially. It's completely changed everything. Yeah, I think, I think people are more aware of the impact it had on COVID babies. So the COVID babies are now in reception year. And there's more of a dialogue around the impact that COVID had on child rearing and child socialisation, actually. I think the impact it's had on people your age is needing more air and more conversation, and I hope that this forms part of that narrative. Yeah, and I hope it really opens up a few eyes on job posts

about why they might be missing things. It's not missing because of us. It's missing because it's not there. I can't... anything aside, I can't think of how I could have worked any harder in any given moment of time when I spend my whole life working hard because I'm that passionate. If I have any gaps anywhere, I can promise you it's not working hard because I'm that passionate. If I have any gaps anywhere I can promise you it's not anything to do with how motivated or capable I am and I think that's something to acknowledge especially when there's other applicants that might have not gone through the same things that they have it. It's likely because they've had the support to be able to do that. Yeah, your aptitude and your perservation shines out of you.

So I think you will get to be going to great places. You know, you're already on that journey, but it's what organizations can do to flexibly include and accommodate you that's gonna be really important. I feel like my children are always telling me that I need to say this. And so I feel like with perhaps one of my youngest guests to date, that it might be my time to say this.

They want me to point and say, what do you think if you're watching this on YouTube? Comment below. And they say, I never point. So I'm pointing, children. OK. I would love anyone watching or listening to this to, you know, to let us know in the comments, either as a question on Spotify, or as a

review or a comment on social media, or if you're watching on YouTube, in the actual comments. Has this resonated with you? You know, what do you think about what Jake and I have been talking about today? Thank you so much for your time, Jake. It's been a really, really interesting and thought provoking conversation. And I hope it's OK for you too. Thank you very much. It really is. And I will say, as having a twin, and obviously that means we have the same financial background, there's that privilege there financially that I haven't had to struggle overly in terms of safety and security.

So, for example, my sister's been able to save up and she's in Australia at the moment, albeit she's not driving. She's in Australia at the moment having a great time. It's just how life is in the psychology career path that she has the opportunity to do that and work in a coffee shop for a few months before to afford it. Well what I would say is if your sister can't drive Fraser Island is amazing so make sure she makes a friend who can drive and tell her to go to Fraser Island because it's so much fun. I will do. Thank you for your time Jake. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much to our guest for today, Jake. Wishing you the very best in your career, Jake. And I think we're going to be watching this space.

Like I said, if you've got ideas for future podcast episodes, please do feel free to come and pitch those to me either directly from my website www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk or come and follow me on social media where I am Dr. Marianne Trent Everywhere. If you love these energized conversations that really help you to be shaped and to grow and to be developed then I think you will really really enjoy the aspiring psychologist membership. It's your chance to get up close and personal with qualified psychologists to really help your development. You can join for just 30 pounds a month with no minimum term and when you join you can gain access to the

replay content for the last three years. It really is great we're doing brilliant things and we're getting people assistant psychologist interviews and jobs, research assistant posts and trainee interviews and places too. There's so much to celebrate please do come on board and if you decide you're going to join for a longer time period up front, six months for example or one year, year, you also get one to one time with me as well too. If you'd like to come and join the free Facebook group, you can do. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Community with Dr. Marianne Treads. And that is the exclusive home of Marianne's motivation and mindset sessions, which happen

each Friday morning. You can also check out my books, The Aspiring Psychologist Collective and The Clinical Psychologist Collective too. Thank you so much for being part of my world. The next episode will be along on YouTube from 10 a.m. on Saturdays and wherever you get your podcasts from 6 a.m. on Mondays. Take care.

If you're looking to become a psychologist Then let this be your guide With this podcast at your side To be on your way to being qualified It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast With Dr. Mary Antrim