The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - How to Become a CBT Therapist: Training, Qualifications & What to Expect

Starting point is 00:00:00 My name's Yana and I'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner. I read the clinical psychologist collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one. And this kind of filled me of confidence that, no, I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist, I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay.

Starting point is 00:00:49 But trust me, you will not put the book down once you start. So you want to become a CBT therapist but don't know where to start. From the training routes to the reality of the job, this episode gives you the lowdown on how to qualify, what to expect and what it's really like working as a CBT therapist in the UK. If you're exploring psychology career options or mapping your next steps, don't miss this. I'm chatting with Sahana, a qualified CBT therapist, and I'm Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist. If you enjoy the content, please do like and subscribe for more to help support you in your psychology and mental health journey.

Starting point is 00:01:37 Hi, welcome along to the aspiring psychologist podcast. I'm Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist, and I'm joined here by my guest today, Sahana, who is a qualified CBT therapist. Hi, hi, Sahana. Hello, hello, thank you for having me. Thank you for being here for our second episode, because we've already done one episode, which people can catch up about kind of CBT from a potential service user's angle, because there's someone who might want to kind of find out what CBT is and whether it be a good fit for them therapeutically. So please do watch that one if you haven't already.

Starting point is 00:02:09 And there'll be a link to that at the end of this episode. But today we're thinking about CBT as a career option, as a career move. Could you tell us a kind of a brief overview of how you came to be a CBT therapist please yeah so I finished my BSE in applied clinical psychology that was in 2018 then I went on to do my PwP work so I qualified as a PWP did that for a couple of years and by the two-year mark I started noticing this is around 2020 that there's a bit of a gap in knowledge rather so I was finding that you know I'm assessing for PTA but I'm going to CBT therapists and getting advice from them and had to assess them.

Starting point is 00:02:55 So just to bridge the gap, I felt like it was a natural progression to then go for the CBT training. Amazing. So what did that look like? Was it provided for you kind of via the NHS through your workplace? What was the what was the course called and how did it all happen? In terms of how I went about getting that role, I actually applied on the NHS website. So it would be posted as a trainee CBT role. I applied for it. To prepare for the interview, you need to have something called a KSA portfolio.

Starting point is 00:03:31 So that stands for knowledge, skills and abilities portfolio. It's a really big portfolio where it asks you about your knowledge as a practitioner. So if you're not part of the core professions, you need to sort of look a bit more about what do you do within your current field? It also looks at your skills, so things like. like basic principles, like collaboration, working together. So as we know, NHS is very multidisciplinary. Have you got experience of that, working together in teens?

Starting point is 00:04:00 And then obviously your attitudes as well. What are your motivations for applying? What have you got to bring to the table personally? And how does that translate professionally? And once that's submitted and they've had a look at it, then you get onto the training after you do some interviews. So it's quite a bit of a process, but it can be done if you kind of methodically put that work in. Okay, amazing.

Starting point is 00:04:28 Before I respond properly to what you just said, you gave me some really interesting information there that actually you did an undergraduate psychology degree that also gave you a qualification because that's really unusual. I wish I'd done that when I did my psych undergrad. So what's funny is this was a decade ago. So psychology was still kind of the culture was, at least in my experience, it's like you're not going to get a professional role in psychology. You're going to sort of end up doing something else that's different to psychology. But this, so I was very mindful about that. So this specific degree that I did, it actually attached the PWP training.

Starting point is 00:05:07 So I did my PW training on my dissertation in my third year. And I actually was a qualified PDVP ready to go off to the big world and work at low intensity. Amazing. Thank you. I didn't even know that was possible. So yeah, for anyone that's kind of thinking about their psychology career, if you haven't yet done your psych degree, there are options that can make you actually qualify to sit with clients and do work at the point that you graduate. So you said that it's a funded role. Does that mean they pay you or does that just mean that they pay your fees or is it a little bit of both? Both. So they would pay you for your training and they will also pay you salary. So you'd be working at band six. Some services do band five. So yeah, it's a year worth of training and 44 weeks of teaching. So a week would be up of two days of training and three days of placement. So it sounds like maybe you are employed by an NHS trust, but you're almost seconded to a university to do the learning aspects? Yeah. Yeah. So you would have a tutor to go through like the portfolio and the essays and things like that.

Starting point is 00:06:18 and teach you the materials. They'll also be, you know, in my experience, there would be sort of pioneers in like the models like Sokoskies and Clark and David Ville. They'll come in and do master classes, so that way you kind of really get to the grips of the models, see how they kind of work and how to kind of do an intervention with that specific disorder.

Starting point is 00:06:40 But then you'd be working at a service and you'd be getting paid. Yeah, and I learnt my CBT when I was a trainee clinical psychologist. And actually, I've chosen this necklace very carefully today because this was the necklace that my placement supervisor gave me at the end of placement one. And I really, really liked working with her. And neither she nor the guy that supervised my CBT cases are with us in this world anymore. And so I thought, let's pay homage to both of those by wearing that necklace. It makes for a bit emotional even to think about it. But, you know, this is our lives, isn't it? When you're learning these skills, this is your life, you are trainee, but it's still

Starting point is 00:07:22 your real life. You'll still form real meaningful connections with the people you work with. And I still remember Brett, when he was teaching me CBT on placement, he'd be like, okay, so we've got to think about what this tells the person about their beliefs of themselves, the world and others. And even now, even though that was 2008 that he first taught me that, I still, is. 2025 think about you know myself the world and others and so you know you can carry these people that have taught you these skills and remember them fondly even even as you progress in your career so total aside but yeah what you said about your supervisor really kind of connected with me yeah I think that's a whole

Starting point is 00:08:08 mark of a good supervisor though when they can kind of imprint and embed the philosophies that they're kind of taught they then pass on to you absolutely I think your supervisors are going to be the bedrock so you'll get two supervisors so one through the university and the other through your service and the structure would look quite different from each other so in my service supervision it was one to one and it felt more personal and really that safety net and the bond in terms of being able to work through my imposter syndrome which we'll get into a little bit more detail but it definitely is a very

Starting point is 00:08:47 time isn't it where you're feeling a bit rocky and you're needing that support so that there's the one-to-one service supervision but then there's also group supervision which again is is safe but it's quite different in the dynamic so there's three probably up to three people and you'd show recordings of your sessions so it can be quite exposing especially when you're learning to do a certain therapy and you're like still unsure about how you how would you be as a clinician you know there's people coming from different backgrounds. So I came from a PWP background. So the biggest shot for me in group supervision was why are people just not going fast enough? You know, usually you just cut to the chase. But I felt CBT was a bit more like you need to be more exploratory, socratic dialogue. That's a bit more

Starting point is 00:09:33 prominent. And that's something I struggled with, which group supervision kind of really pull that out of me throughout my year. And I was able to learn from my other colleagues as well, kind of how did they go about, oh, I really like that. I think I'm going to see how I get on with that and then show my colleagues and you know my supervisor how how it played out so it's showing recordings is definitely part of the process so just just a heads up about that yeah but also know that that that feels awful for all of us so I've been on screens now regularly since 2020 maybe 2019 actually I am well aware of the things I do on screen and I'm well aware of how I sound and how I look. I'm all right with all of them now.

Starting point is 00:10:18 Like I've seen it so much that like I'm just like, yeah, that's just how I am. So it is painful. None of us really love it unless you do it all day, every day like I do and you get used to it. You kind of, as we spoke about in the last episode, you habituate. Like there's no more, you know, I know what I sound like I know there's no more surprises coming. It is a really important part of of growth and of kind of 360 degree feedback. And, and even just honing in like, oh, I didn't know I did that. Or actually, when I think I've got a listening face, I look really bored. It's like, you know, if we're using audio recordings, obviously you don't necessarily get that. But if we're using audio and video, you get that feedback. But I think with the audio recordings,

Starting point is 00:10:58 it's also really useful to think about actually when I said that, I think I spoke too soon. Perhaps I should have given it a minute. Like, you know, we can learn so much. And it is uncomfortable, but it's so useful. And I hope that you're in a situation. whoever's watching this, that it feels safe to have that growth. Yeah. No, I definitely don't want to put anybody off of having recorded, albeit very uncomfortable. And this was at the height of my social anxiety. So during my training, it was like, oh my God, not only am I going to have to present to my client as a trainee, but also then I'm going to show these videos to a group. But what I found really helpful, and that year I truly, I

Starting point is 00:11:43 believe CBD kind of helped me was a lot of self-practice. So there's a part of the training where in the portfolio you can reflect on the techniques that you actually learn on the go and apply it to yourself. And it was such a rewarding experience. And like you said, putting yourself in situations like that, you're kind of almost practicing what you kind of put out there, really, you know, if you don't know what you're selling, then, you know, what you, do you know what I mean? So I think it really deepens your empathy, but also your experience as a clinician as well to do that. So there's definitely things in place to help manage that. And it's an understandable fact, I want to even say, that recorded sessions are daunting.

Starting point is 00:12:28 Nobody likes them. And they kind of know that and they set up the supervision space knowing that. So they will support you through that. Okay, amazing. So your training was a year. Are there are there assignments, are there exams, you know, do you have to pass certain, you know, key elements to get to the kind of qualification end point? Yes, so there are, we need to see, well, at the time, this is five years ago, by the way. So, but it's still similar to this structure. You see eight clients that you need to have a full course of treatment and you need to have a reflect. treatment record a portfolio in a nutshell one of them has to be PTSD and another for depression and on top of that you need to submit three tapes

Starting point is 00:13:19 which you need to pass using a marking system called CTSR and so definitely have a look at that if you're interested in pursuing CBT training because that's what they'll use to mark your tapes and then on top of that three essays which they all provide kind of of I think numerous questions, you should pick the question and then you do the essay, three different essays. Did I mention the case reports as well? There's case reports that you need to do on a specific client, obviously anonymised, reflecting on the process, the experience, but also the evidence supporting your choices, the clinical choices that you've made.

Starting point is 00:14:00 Amazing, thank you. And have you got a cohort around you? Are you all going this through this together so that hopefully you've got, I know, like what's that? groups or kind of even a person that you got on really well that you can kind of you know lean on for support definitely um so we there was a cohort of about um 20 of us 25 of us i'm going to say at the time during the pandemic it was remote but they did try to kind of foster that sense of camaraderie i guess by doing like lunch get-togethers but i personally grew really close with my trainee like my peers rather who were in the same services me so we had a group chat and we were leaning on each other and also my group supervision and the peers in that dynamic as well we leaned

Starting point is 00:14:48 on each other as well kind of giving each other feedback um honestly just supporting each other you know we know just how it feels so when we see that take we're like you did really well i really like that bit i'm going to take that from me and i'm going to try it this week and yeah or if something's like oh maybe you know i do that too i completely get it it's part of the experience, it's part of learning and growing. So there's definitely support all around you. You've got your tutors as well. So if you are concerned about submissions or not knowing what do I write, you know, the content, you can speak to your course tutor, reach out to them. I've done it before. When I wasn't too sure and they were so supportive, but obviously

Starting point is 00:15:26 you've got your service as well, supporting you through the same, no, you're a trainee. They're not going to expect you to be like a qualified CBT practitioner. It's okay. You can make mistakes. and it will be done in a safe space within a control, like supervision setting. So important. And how does this work? If someone's working full-time, whole-time equivalent, five days, how many days are training, how many days are on placement? You know, what does that look like? So there would be two days on lectures and just with the university, to teaching days. And then there'll be three days of placement. So that would be seeing about four,

Starting point is 00:16:06 clients, about three to four clients per day. It might sound like a lot, but you'll build up over time with that. So you won't start from the get COVID, four clients a day. You'll build yourself up to that point. Amazing. Okay, so when you qualify, when you come up the other side, you're a band seven. Yeah. Yeah, it's quite impressive. And I think it's well worth it for lots of reasons, but yeah, you qualify as a band seven. And what would a typical week look like if someone was working in a full-time capacity, for example. Is there an expectation of how many face-to-face hours they would typically be doing in a week? So once you qualify, you would be expected to do face-to-face days. It really depends on the service. So if I was to speak

Starting point is 00:16:53 from personal experience about since the pandemic, everything's changed, doesn't it? So half of my hours, or I would take up with face-to-face clients and the other half of my week I would take up with remote clients or group clients so group can be also face-to-face or remotely too so at the minute I'm doing I do four days so do two days in person two days remotely and how many kind of hours of intervention would you be doing across those four days typically so per day if you're working sort of normal hours throughout the weeks it would be four clients of four contacts per day. Great. So it's similar to when I was working in an NHS setting that I was kind of striving for 50% face-to-face or just over that. And I'm just thinking as we

Starting point is 00:17:45 speak about actually people who might choose to become CBT therapists. And certainly in services I've worked with, it was people who maybe already had training as kind of psychiatric nurses. And they kind of went on to then do something more kind of therapeutic rather than just using their nursing, but it underpinned, their nursing underpinned, kind of their knowledge really, really well. And I loved having them in our psychology team. And of course, people might be choosing to do this because they're maybe thinking about stages beyond that. But, you know, CBT therapist is, is a, is a career and a qualification in itself, and you might choose to stay there. And that's absolutely okay. But of course, you can begin to think about, well, maybe I might want to go on

Starting point is 00:18:28 and do doctorate in counselling psychology or doctorate in clinical psychology or forensic. Like there's options for career growth as well. Now of course if you're already working as a band seven going back to a band six training role or even self-funding in the case of counselling and then still coming out as a band seven is, you know, not without its limits. But people might want the more training and variety that's on offer from doing a doctorate course. And then of course it can then mean that you can build your career kind of seven and beyond with kind of a practitioner psychologist qualification. So absolutely. So the natural next step would be a senior CBT therapist. So that role involves not just doing one-to-one clinical work, but actually getting

Starting point is 00:19:14 involved with the service side of things. So advocating for CBT therapists' needs, I guess. So presenting within MDT, you know, if a clinical psychologist saying, oh, this might be appropriate for CBT therapists. So CBT therapist and that dynamic might be, well, not necessarily because of X, Y, Z reasons, but also looking up for like CPD opportunities. So there's definitely you can, there is a variety that you can do, you know, you can create treatment protocols within services as well. So you can get into that role. And you can move on as well. So I'm at a point where I'm thinking about expanding myself a little bit more. And yeah, it might be going down a band and looking at

Starting point is 00:19:57 the doctorate training, clinical psychology training. But again, they're all, I think what I find with the CBT training is that actually it just gives you a really good foundation. Most of all, confidence in yourself as a clinician. It's a really good base and you're like, okay, well, I know myself as a clinician. I'd like to sort of stretch myself a little bit more now. It makes the transition so much more seamless, I think, to get into the doctorate training. I find I'd considered clinical psychology when I was a PWP, but for me personally, I felt like the leap was too much. I didn't feel ready for it. And honestly, do I regret going down the CBT training route? Absolutely not. I am so happy I'd invested that time. Because I'd done that, I feel much more ready and I'm doing it on my terms.

Starting point is 00:20:48 Yeah. Oh, that's so powerful, isn't it? Because actually, yeah, like we need to feel ready, wherever we're at. we don't want to feel overwhelmed. So thank you. It's been a really lovely episode and I think let's spam the comments if people are watching on YouTube with with some love for Sahana. Like you've done a really lovely job in both episodes of really helping us get a feel for CBT, what it is, you know, what it involves and who it helps. So thank you so much for your time, Sahana and for seeing us on your day off as well. No, thank you so much for having me. Like I said, we don't, I don't really get to talk about these sorts of things. So it's just good.

Starting point is 00:21:25 to sort of, I've never really seen anything like this, you know, like listen to a video and what is CBT training. I had to do the groundwork of asking other CBT therapists. So it's so nice to know that there's something out there that people can sort of look at. Perfect. That's what the podcast does, isn't it? It saves you having to research all of this yourself and we ask all the questions, hopefully, that other guys would want to know. Thank you so much for your time, Sahana. And yeah, I'll see you very soon. Thank you. again to our guest Sahana. If you haven't yet caught the first episode we did on what CBT is,

Starting point is 00:22:03 please do. There will be a link in the show notes or in the YouTube description. I would love to know what you think to this episode. I would love your comments and I do always respond too. So please do drop a comment or a question on YouTube or on Spotify. You can do that too. And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, please do rate and review the show. It really does help others to know that we are worth tuning into. If you love reading stories and learning more about people's pathways and journeys to becoming qualified psychologists

Starting point is 00:22:35 or other mental health professions, please do check out both the aspiring psychologist collective book and the clinical psychologist collective book. They both get lovely reviews and they are such illuminating, warming, inspiring reads. If you've read them already and not yet dropped us an Amazon, good reads review, please do. If you'd like to grab your free psychology success guide, head

Starting point is 00:23:01 along to my website, www.uspiring hyphen psychologist.co.com.uk. If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guide. With this podcast, that's your side, you'll be on your way to being qualified. It's the aspiring psychologist podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent. I've enjoyed reading this so much and loved having an insight into the range of backgrounds and experiences. People have prior to applying for the doctorate and it's been really interesting seeing the potential barriers to the application as well and how I can try and work around this. I really started to doubt myself and whether I was good enough to apply for the clinical

Starting point is 00:24:10 psychology doctorate but this has really given me the confidence boost that I needed to give it a shot so the biggest thank you ever.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - How to Become a CBT Therapist: Training, Qualifications & What to Expect

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