The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - How to become an Occupational Psychologist - Organisational Psychology

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

Starting point is 00:00:32 the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up in today's episode, we are looking at the field of occupational psychology.

Starting point is 00:01:07 I am joined by a guest who is just coming to the very end of the process in qualifying in this fascinating career that bridges the gap between the workplace and human behavior. Whether you are listening because you are looking for a career change or maybe looking to dive in at an earlier stage of your career, then you are in the right place. We look at the key aspects of this career, how to get started, how to get qualified and so much more. Hope you find it so useful. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. One of the joys of creating this podcast is that I'm able to illuminate different facets of professional psychology careers. And I wanted to revisit in more detail something that we spoke about

Starting point is 00:02:06 with Dr. Mari Kovinen when we were looking at a variety of issues, including growing up in Finland and looking at dating in psychology and occupational psychology. But I wanted to dedicate a whole episode to occupational psychology, which is what we are doing today. It's going to be really useful for you whatever stage of career you are at and whether you are interested in occupational psychology or not I think there's something to be gained by listening to it or watching it. That said if you are watching on YouTube please do subscribe, like, share the content, drop me a comment below. In the episode we do talk about whether there is funding available for student finance and my guest wasn't quite sure

Starting point is 00:02:51 of the answer. I've had a little bit of a google and it looks like the best thing to do is to contact the student finance department in the country that you are living in. So I'm in England, for me it would be Student Finance England because it seems to be done on a case by case basis, depending on what stage of career you are at, and whether you've had previous funding. I would love to know what you think of this episode. I hope you find it so useful. I will catch up with you on the other side. I just want to welcome along our guests for today. Hi, Jo. Hi, Marianne. Thanks for inviting me. Oh thank you so much for saying yes. So we got chatting on LinkedIn and I was like would you fancy coming on and doing a podcast episode and thankfully you said yes. I did and that's one of my, I like saying yes to lots of things, that's

Starting point is 00:03:38 one of my potential pitfalls but yes I was really excited about this so thank you oh thank you for squeezing me in at a time when actually you're quite busy anyway because you've just been telling me that you're kind of coming to the end stages of getting everything sorted so that you can call yourself an occupational psychologist which is very exciting yeah yes so in fact I've just spent this morning finishing off my amends to send my thesis, submit my thesis for to the examiners so I can get that rubber stamped. And then that kind of closes that journey, which has been an amazing journey. I'm really obviously looking forward to sharing some of it with you today. Oh, congratulations in advance. And tell us a little bit about how did you come to doing this particular field in

Starting point is 00:04:27 psychology? Yeah I mean I know everyone's got an interesting story so I'm a little bit biased in saying that mine's super interesting but I guess it's interesting in that there was quite a significant career transition so I spent the first almost 20 years of my career in sales and marketing and a very traditional career in terms of, you know, looking for promotions. It was that traditional kind of vertical linear type career in sales and marketing and got to a point where I was marketing director and sales responsibility across Europe, big team, everything I'd always wanted. But something, you know, it wasn't evidently, it wasn't really. So I got there and then went, oh, actually, this isn't really what I want to do anymore. Also, at the time, from a contextual perspective, I had a small child. I was trying to be this great mom, trying to be this great boss, trying to be superwoman in all domains. And, you know, that then kind of started having some consequences for my well-being.

Starting point is 00:05:35 And I recognized that and decided to take charge and do something different. So I exited my corporate career I said after almost 20 years and started off my own consultancy and actually at that in those first couple of years it was a marketing consultancy I just took you know this is what I do this is what I'm good at and and brought it into consulting um then I started finding a lot of the work I was doing was using some of my kind of leadership skills that I'd kind of developed over my corporate career doing leadership work doing management change projects helping organizations going through change and I started kind of realizing

Starting point is 00:06:19 this is this is quite different but this is what really like. And that's when I started exploring opportunities to actually, you know, build my credentials through education. So that's when I started looking at courses that would enable me to be better at that, be more informed, use evidence-based practice as opposed to just going out on the whim. And that's when I came across the the master's in occupational psychology at Birkbeck. Amazing so you decided to take the plunge? I took the plunge went back to studying after 22 years my my undergraduate degree was in social science I majored in economics and sociology so I don't have a psychology degree.

Starting point is 00:07:10 Well, I kind of do now. But so I didn't know that was more of a social science. So I enrolled on the organizational psychology master's program at Birkbeck. I did it full time in a year because I'm so desperate to learn it all really quickly. In hindsight, that might not have been the best best idea but um that's that's the route I took um and then I got to near the end and I was just in a bit of a I love this journey I love this I love it I I just find this so fascinating I don't want it to stop um and obviously because I'd chosen full-time it was it was coming to an end and I wasn't really ready for it to end and so I recall talking to our professor of our department at the time saying how do I carry on this and it was just

Starting point is 00:07:52 very fortuitous at the time Birkbeck were bringing the professional doctorate in occupational psychology to fruition and I was advised that might be a nice route, you know, because I kind of wanted to work in practice as a practitioner, independent practitioner. So I applied for that and managed to actually coerce one of my friends who was also on the MSc to do it so we could do it together and we both got accepted so we handed in our master's dissertations and a week later we were enrolled on the professional doctorate that was back in 2019. Gosh that's amazing like amazing excellent timing but you're clearly the right candidates for those roles as well. Tell us a little bit about the professional doctorate so is it how big are the cohorts do you get paid to train you know do you have to pay tuition fees yes so you do have to pay um and it's something in the region of about five ish thousand pound

Starting point is 00:08:58 a year so there is there's obviously a cost there um you are working while you're doing it because actually the part one so if you are um if you don't um if you don't already have the bps chartership if you're going in it from scratch as i was the part one is you are working and you are then doing reflective learning logs based on the piece of work and obviously if you're fortunate enough you will be getting paid for that work um because i'm an independent practitioner i was i did a little mixture some projects i was getting paid for other projects i had to do pro bono simply because i had to write i had to do the piece of work and it was during covid so you had to kind of make some

Starting point is 00:09:41 decisions um around okay i'll have to do some stuff and not get paid for it in order to get the qualification. So there was a little bit of a mix. You kind of cover you cover the five main areas. So selection and assessment, engagement and motivation, leadership, change and then learning and development. Those were the those were the five topic areas and so you do a meaty piece of work within that domain and then you write up a sort of 5 000 word reflective log on the using the consultancy cycle as the kind of framework evidence-based practice to demonstrate um you know that you have delivered work to the standard of of um you know doctoral student amazing thank you so there's those five key areas but the one thing that i felt like i

Starting point is 00:10:34 knew about occupational psychology wasn't there so oh really yeah or maybe i'm just not fitting it in so i think the only teaching i've ever had on it was when we were doing a module or looking at sick building syndrome, which is like when a whole workforce became ill because of the way the, you know, the building was kind of set up and it just wasn't making people feel good and wasn't kind of ergonomic or wasn't autonomous for human functioning. So I kind of thought that was kind of partly the role of occupational psychology but yeah I know well in fact I'm there is actually a sixth area which is well-being so um there is a well-being area so some some um of my peers did their focus on well-being initiatives so that that's that's my mistake

Starting point is 00:11:24 I should have I should have said that you said well-being is a that that's that's my mistake I should have I should have said that you said well-being is a is quite a um in fact I did my master's on that so I should have I should have known that no worries at all um so do you have like a favorite area do you have like a a dream piece of work that you like to do in occupational psychology so my area of interest is motivation at work and my doctoral research my thesis was in proactive behavior at work which is around self-initiated change oriented future focus about challenging the status quo so it's that kind of behavior that um drives change and that's um I identify as having a proactive personality so it was an area I was particularly interested in as a lot of doctoral students do this thing that they kind of

Starting point is 00:12:18 can relate to and want to understand a bit more about themselves it's a bit of a sort of journey of discovery um and that's my area that I um found really fascinating I teach um on the um employee relations and motivation module at Birkbeck now so I teach on the master's program now um so it's kind of gone full circle and I I'm an accredited coach so I particularly like doing work where I'm coaching clients who feel a bit stuck. They're procrastinating, can't see a way forward. That's kind of my when someone comes to me with that as a coaching dilemma, I'm like, yes, this is what this is. I love doing so all things related to motivation. I find very motivating. And so that's my sort of thing I'm super interested in

Starting point is 00:13:07 but I'm also really interested in leadership and you know the impact of leaders having experienced some great leadership having experienced some not so great leadership and having been in a leadership role and wanting to be a really good leader so that's also something that I've I'm fascinated by and it links with motivation to a certain degree yeah I guess nothing like working in business and seeing things done well or seeing things done really badly to inspire you to be the difference that makes the difference. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And so now you are pretty much almost qualified, because 99% kind of just waiting for the rubber stamping. Are you going to be working just in a self-employed capacity, kind of looking for contracts?

Starting point is 00:13:59 Do people sometimes employ occupational psychologists in an employed capacity? How does it work yeah so I'll share kind of my personal experience and then but mine is quite different to others so um so I am as said independent practitioner so I've got my own consultancy and I have what's called a portfolio career so within that I have my independent consultancy work so I do some coaching I do leadership development I pick up nice little strategic projects I've done sort of stuff around change engagement culture stuff so they're they're kind of tend to be kind of bespoke it's you know it's a short project or it can be longer so that's's my kind of consultancy stuff. Coaching, as I said, I work directly with clients, coaching clients.

Starting point is 00:14:49 I also do quite a lot of teaching coaching basics to leaders to enable organizations to have kind of leaders as coach type programs. So I do quite a lot in terms of very simplified coaching. And then I have some jobs where it's more kind of paid for roles. So I'm a non-exec director for Southern Co-op. So that's a regional cooperative. And I sit on that board. But I'm also the board ambassador for D&I. I chair the remuneration committee.

Starting point is 00:15:25 So some of the strengths from what I do overlays there and then as I mentioned I teach at Birkbeck on the master's program oh a little bit of variety is definitely the spice of life isn't it yes yes it is so yeah and you mentioned that you you really like change and for many of our listeners um or watchers um they might be thinking about the kind of stages of change model which is that is that prochaska and declemente have i imagined that i don't know i think there's quite a few i mean kubler ross is one that's cited often which is the one that's associated to the grief model i mean there's it's there's questionable evidence around it but I know it's one that okay often gets used in a work context to talk about change there's that's from a kind of

Starting point is 00:16:12 people experiencing change and navigating change but then there's a whole ton of change frameworks in terms of the the most optimal model of implementing a change at work. And funnily enough, one of my projects on my part one was looking at all the different change models and actually coming, trying to get the best out of and come up with something that was the most helpful. So there's lots of different theories of change. So there's stuff that's a little bit more in-depth than the, what is it, contemplation, pre-contemplation, action, you know, maintenance, all of that. And I think the most effective kind of frameworks are those that actually recognise, going back to the context and the importance of participation and the importance of kind of getting buy-in and involvement, those kind of communication. Because one thing I've kind of learned over the years is that when change is done badly, normally at the root cause is the communication is poor.

Starting point is 00:17:21 And so the communication is kind of at the heart of everything yeah I think it's really interesting when you look at kind of the way that staff teams function so you know we'll have all worked in some that work really well and others that just they just don't um is that kind of something that occupational psychologists could get in there and sort out to help help teams to thrive yeah absolutely and again depending on the pathway you sort of choose to go down because I said it's it is quite interesting I've got friends who 100% work in selection and assessment that's what they do they do psychometrics they you know it's about recruitment selection assessment finding the best people for roles and that in itself is is very specialized and then you've got i've got other peers who work

Starting point is 00:18:10 fundamentally you know in change whether that's change management helping through change navigating change all the change type stuff i've got other colleagues who do stuff that's more around well-being well-being initiatives well-being interventions um so there's it kind of depends which kind of pathway you decide to go down um i've kind of because i kind of like as as you probably realize have my fingers in lots of pies i kind of like you know i'm more interested in someone comes and says what the challenge is and i kind of go am i the right person have i have i got some knowledge in this do i understand it kind I get to the bottom of it and then I'll be like yeah that sounds like something I could get involved in so um so yes but there are sort of

Starting point is 00:18:56 definitely I don't know if I've answered that very well have I kind of felt like I've digressed a bit no absolutely fine so it sounds it sounds kind of I don't know like it reminds me a little bit of forensic where you kind of have to hold yourself accountable get everything done and keep hoping to move through the process at the right time um is there like a a pathway that you kind of start on the doctor and then three years later you are spat out if you've kind of met all the thresholds or is it a little bit more piecemeal than that? I think the interesting thing with specifically with this with the professional doctorate at Birkbeck you know the most people on it have had quite a bit of work experience so we're already you know in work um or have you

Starting point is 00:19:46 know like me was on a you know second career um so it's and because of the nature of the part one that you are doing work-related projects you have to have access to the those work um as i said some some of my peers were employed some you know within kind of think what i'm just citing some of the individuals but you know someone who they worked for in selection assessment that's pretty much what they did someone else who is mainly doing well-being initiatives in nhs um so it kind of it it depends on on on. But that idea that, yeah, it's more linked to their context in which you which you're operating, whether you're or an independent practitioner or whether you're employed. And then because it's quite a long journey, I've got obviously peers as well who've who've moved companies. They're doing different things because you're kind of doing it alongside working it's it kind of yes everyone's path is going to be different essentially.

Starting point is 00:20:52 I see thank you and obviously if the circumstances for the person are right and they've not had too much funding before can they apply for kind of student loan things to kind of help with their fees and things no I was in a position to be able to sell fund and because I was working for the duration I was obviously earning whilst doing so it is classed as a part-time so I was doing this and pretty much working at times full time as well. So and how old is your youngest child now? How many years has it taken from when you first thought, I'm not sure this is working? Yeah, well, she's just turned 13, actually. So she's a teenager.

Starting point is 00:21:37 She was about, yeah, she was she was four when I left my corporate role and so for the last five and a half years I've been you know a student and working at the same time so yes I'm now a mum of a teenager which is a bit scary amazing I'm I'm sort of hovering at the preteen I've got a ten and a half year old it's a whole different ball game but oh my gosh that sense of you almost on this precipice of like oh I think I'm going I think I'm going I think I'm going yep I'm gonna jump off I'm quitting this corporate life and I'm gonna do something different which is exhilarating but also terrifying yeah although I do remember at the time I mean as I kind of alluded to I was absolutely going down a pathway to burnout that's where I was headed um I was overworking I was

Starting point is 00:22:36 working as said big role uh European responsibility large team and um working in three different different time zones so um and with a propensity to say yes to too much uh now that i know that uh that was a pathway i was heading down so actually when i you know got off the conveyor belt it was such a relief because i think i knew where i was headed um had I not so um it was yeah it was a much needed I remember at the time having this kind of feeling just yeah my weight lifted and been able to kind of suddenly be creative because I'd come out of this kind of hamster wheel of busyness which was not serving me well yeah I think it's amazing what difference it can make to us physically and in terms of our mental load as well when we make a decision and we take action

Starting point is 00:23:34 and it seems like we're doing like a purposeful purposeful goal then I remember when I was trying to decide whether or not to stop working for the NHS and the mental load was so heavy. Anytime I had a spare couple of minutes, I'd be trying to weigh it up. Like, should I stay? Should I go? Like literally every time I went to boil the kettle, that's what I found myself thinking about. And it's just really hard and once I'd made that decision I did just feel so liberated and free and excited not because the NHS is a bad place to work for but for me I'd made my decision and you know they're really empowering yeah yeah absolutely so it sounds like taking control is one of your key tips for reducing burnouts in the psychology

Starting point is 00:24:28 sphere but it might not be your only one have you got any other kind of ideas for how how that can be prevented yes I've and I I was appreciated you mentioning that this might be a question because I really did reflect on this because I think it was that you know this this almost as they're going heading down that pathway um that was I think one of the reasons you know this I this interest in organizational psychology knowing that this is you know work intensification is a real thing and knowing that actually I can make a difference to workplaces by bringing some of my experience and then newly acquired knowledge to help kind of educate and help people kind of think differently about how they approach work. As I said, I am I am naturally someone who has a propensity to do too much, to say yes to too many things. If something sounds really exciting, I'm like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I could do that. And it's been a real, real kind of challenge and experience, you know,

Starting point is 00:25:33 learning experience to try and recognize that actually I need to be better at being more boundaried. And I think that's probably the biggest thing is that i i absolutely during my corporate career did not operate with boundaries um you know someone sends me an email in an evening and i'm sitting my phone's there so i might as well reply why not and so that idea of not having any kind of thought around well one what am i doing why am I replying to an email at 10 o'clock at night and two what what message is that sending out as a as that well I think that this is okay so I think that idea of being boundaried around um when we communicate and lots of people say oh that but that's the time that suits me it's like that's great but actually what message are you

Starting point is 00:26:23 sending out so I think that whole thing around being boundaried around when we should and shouldn't be working and communicating um the sort of digital switch off being more boundaried around going with my family this is not time to have my phone attached to my you know waiting for the next message so I think there's lots around that kind of, and it does actually help. I don't know if you find the same as being a parent. It does kind of help when you've got a dependence because you kind of say, actually, no, I want to be a really good mom. So I am going to switch this off at this time.

Starting point is 00:27:01 I think having my daughter has enabled me to be a bit more um a bit more boundaried that I wasn't before so I think there's definitely something around that um my top tip I've only just started implementing it but I felt I felt quite empowered when I did it recently so as I said when people come to me with opportunities I always think oh that sounds really exciting I think I'd really enjoy that yes and then kind of look at my diary and go oh my gosh why did I say that um so I've got a new thing which is I said can can I get back to you on that or let me think about that and I benefit from having a husband who's well-boundaried who I then have the kind of

Starting point is 00:27:44 come back to you on it. I'll say to him, he's like, of course, why are you saying yes to that? You've got tons of things on. So I have a kind of voice of reason shouting at me, but also just having that time to then go, right. I know this is really exciting. This sounds really great. But what else have you got going on? What is going to be the impact if you do that and then going back and then saying actually thank you so much for the offer but based on what else I've got on right now I can't I can't do it or saying or saying actually yeah I'm gonna do it but it comes with these caveats so that is quite new it's quite well I feel like I am one of the first people to have

Starting point is 00:28:24 experienced that because you did that to me you were like let me have a look let me have a look maybe research let me think about it and come back to you and you know I really I really appreciated that you know I want you to feel like you're choosing to do this and that you feel like it's a worthwhile thing to do but it's it's absolutely okay to ask for more information to ask for some time to think to kind of look at the diary to plan when you might be able to do that. And I think it's really common, especially in aspiring psychologists, you want to be keen, you want to get things done, you want to say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But then if it means that you are over full, you've got too much in your diary, you can't do

Starting point is 00:28:59 it all, you know, and that will be a path to burnout. learning to say no or you know if you don't necessarily want to say no to your supervisor to say could you help me look at my diary to think about the things that are most pressing in terms of priority so that we can make sure that everything gets done in a way that that meets your needs and mine yeah I think you know and generally I when I because I do a lot of work with leaders and I'm really picking up this kind of propensity to say yes, propensity to not question deadlines, to propensity to assume everything's urgent when it's not, propensity to assume everything's important when it's sometimes not. And this idea of kind of saying not yet or no, or can I think about it?

Starting point is 00:29:44 It is empowering. And I think initially people kind of think not yet or no or can I think about it it is empowering and I think initially people kind of think oh what what might others think of me if I say that and I think this is it's this kind of notion of fearing social judgment of you know what people are going to think are they going to think I'm not coping very well they're going to think I'm not very good at prioritizing honestly from my experience I find you get actually more kudos and respect when you are actually demonstrating I'm I'm I'm in control and I'm telling you what my capacity is so I think it is something that you know a lot of employees and leaders in organizations can can kind of learn from absolutely so important thanks for sharing that with us so you know people are listening to this podcast or watching it at all

Starting point is 00:30:32 stages of their life all stages of their career if they're like listening to this thinking oh that sounds like a bit of me um what's the best thing that they should do in terms of trying to move their career forward so I think first and foremost if it depends depends obviously on your kind of age and stage but if um if you've not already got a master's in organizational psychology that is really or occupational psychology that is really the the first step um i guess for those who have a psychology background that's that's an easier route in but you can get on an msc occupational organizational psychology without having an undergraduate degree in psychology so that's good news if there's aspiring psychologists who haven't got the undergrad because I didn't. It might mean it's a slightly steeper learning curve, but that's OK.

Starting point is 00:31:30 So the kind of the MSC is kind of the pathway in because that then gives you, you know, organizational psychologist kind of credentials. And then as to kind of how you want to take that you know i know lots of my students who have done their masters and are you know that's that's where they that's where they want to kind of end the education but are doing you know really thriving in various different jobs um as i said it's it's so interesting because you know you can have someone who's working for a management consultancy doing change stuff you've got someone over here is working for a recruitment in psychometrics and selection you've got someone over here who's working for a you know a consultancy who do well-being initiatives it's so varied I think that's the part and if you're interested in work

Starting point is 00:32:21 if you're interested in the world of work you can kind of find your passion and interest in many different kind of domains and they require very different skills. So I think that's why it's quite a broad, it's quite a broad kind of domain. Perfect. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your knowledge and expertise with us today. Where should people come and follow you? Is LinkedIn the best place to contact you or reach out or just be inspired by your wonderful work and posts? Oh, yes. Probably LinkedIn's a good place. I try to try to share content on there. I do a quick plug. I'm actually writing a book now. So but it's quite early doors but hopefully

Starting point is 00:33:06 this time next year my book will soon be published so my research interest in proactive behavior work has led to an opportunity to write in that area so a business I'm working on a business book that's around how leaders can create the right conditions for proactive behavior work to flourish. So that's what I'm going to be writing over the coming weeks and months. My LinkedIn posts are going to be sharing more around my own research in proactive behavior. So if you're interested in proactive behavior motivation, then I'll be feeding more insights over the coming weeks and months mainly on LinkedIn. So you are Jo Gray on LinkedIn, Doctor in Occupational Psychology it says there and I will look forward to learning more about you and your book and if you wanted to come back on and talk to us about that at any stage when the time is right please let us know but yeah I

Starting point is 00:34:02 was thinking when you were saying you know people decide when they get to MSc that they're just going to stop and I was thinking often we think we're done and we're not like I think whenever I finish a book I think I'm down I'm never doing that again if you finish some education I'm never doing that again and you're like I might just do this thing it's funny that you've already got a thing yes I know do you know what I was I was mindful that because lots of people said that when you come to the end of a like a PhD or doctorate you kind of you're almost like that oh and that's it I've reached it and I ran a few marathons in the past and I have had post-marathon blues we were a bit like what now so actually the book was a really nice little next thing so that I didn't have that big

Starting point is 00:34:46 dip of what next so I proactively set that up well I hope that it goes really well for you and I hope that your amendments get signed off with no problem and you enjoy your career as an occupational psychologist thank you thanks much. And thanks to everyone for listening. I really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you. Oh, you're so welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. What a lovely conversation it was with Jo. Please do go and follow her on LinkedIn. She is Jo Gray over there. There will be details in the show notes. Whilst you're at it, come and connect with me as well. I am Dr. Marianne Trent on all of my socials. And you can also come and join the

Starting point is 00:35:31 Aspiring Psychologist Community free Facebook group. And you can also, if you would like to, consider joining the Aspiring Psychologist membership so that I can help you with your next rung on your ladder thank you so much for being part of my world I will look forward to catching up with you for the next episode of the aspiring psychologist podcast which will be along to you very soon take care Then let this be your guide With this podcast at your side You'll be on your way to being qualified It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast With Dr. Marianne Trent my name is Jana and I'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner

Starting point is 00:36:32 I read the clinical psychologist collective book I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist it just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me of confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself so if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay. But trust me you will not put the book down once you start.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - How to become an Occupational Psychologist - Organisational Psychology

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