The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - No Assistant Psychologist Role? How Job Crafting Can Shape Your Psychology Career

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Worried you're falling behind because you haven’t secured an assistant psychologist (AP) role yet? You’re not alone - but don’t panic. In this episode of The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, Clinical Psychologist Dr Marianne Trent explores how job crafting can help you shape a successful psychology career even without a formal AP title.Learn how to adapt your current or future roles to gain relevant clinical experience, boost your psychology CV, and prepare for training or assistant psychologist job applications. Whether you're in support work, education, admin, or healthcare, this episode will empower you to create opportunities, build confidence, and progress on your path to becoming a psychologist.⏱️ Highlights & Timestamps:00:00 – Introduction: Why we need to talk about job crafting02:18 – What is job crafting and why does it matter for aspiring psychologists?04:40 – You don’t need a psychology job title to build psychological experience07:15 – Real-world examples: from receptionist to AP-level skills09:52 – Spotting psychologically meaningful tasks around you12:34 – How to have empowering conversations with your manager or supervisor14:58 – Being ethical and staying within role boundaries while still growing17:21 – Community stories: creative ways others have job crafted20:07 – When job crafting isn’t enough — how to know when to move on22:45 – Reflecting your job crafting in applications and interviews26:12 – Fighting imposter syndrome when your experience looks different29:40 – Seeking support and community to help you stay the course31:58 – Final thoughts and where to go for further help34:12 – Outro: Your journey still counts, even if it doesn’t look typical#AspiringPsychologist #PsychologyCareers #JobCrafting #AssistantPsychologist #PsychologyExperienceLinks:🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97 💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested🖥️ Check out my brand new short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/short-courses✍️ Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/supervision📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent💬 To join my free Facebook group and discuss your thoughts on this episode and more:

Hi, my name is Beth and I'm a psychological wellbeing practitioner from Newcastle. I just wanted to say the biggest thank you to the contributors of the clinical psychologist collective book. I've enjoyed reading this so much and loved having an insight into the range of backgrounds and experiences people have prior to applying for the doctorate. And it's been really interesting seeing the potential barriers to the application as well and how I can try and work around this. I really started to doubt myself and whether I was good enough to apply for the clinical

psychology doctorate, but this has really given me the confidence boost that I needed to give it a shot, so the biggest thank you ever. What if the key to your psychology career isn't about ticking all the usual boxes, but rewriting the script entirely? In today's episode, I'm joined by Jack Lowe, who shares how he carved out a meaningful psychology path without ever landing an assistant psychologist role. From setbacks to speaking gigs, this one is for anyone wondering if there's still a way in for them, even if it doesn't look like the traditional route.

Hope you find it super useful. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent, a qualified clinical psychologist. Now I did take quite a traditional route, but I do feel like I've been able to be reflective and curious and make the most of roles that haven't seemed that relevant at the time and that is something that I am speaking with Jack about today who is an expert in this and we've got lots of interesting theory, concepts, kind of models, ways of working and this is a really lovely episode.

Hope you find it really useful. I'll catch you on the other side. Hi, I just want to welcome along our guest for today, Jack Lowe. Hi Jack, welcome along. Hi, it's great to be here today. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here and thank you for pitching the episode to me because actually I really love it when people come up with kind of diverse angles for talking about psychology and you know their passion and why it matters to them. So yeah tell us a bit about what people might get from today please Jack. Yeah I think from today is I really want to kind of try and frame my experience. I've only recently discovered I'm quite an unconventional, untraditional student.

My career has definitely followed that as well, working very entry-level roles to customer service. I've really had to get creative with how I can make the most out of these roles to make them psychologically informed to get to where I am now. I'm looking to work for a large mental health charity. I'm looking to work as a regional manager with that. I'm also now doing a masters, but it's not always been a straightforward start. There's been a lot of redos, some failings and having to really learn from that which we really want to try and promote today for you know students and other aspiring psychologists.

Amazing. So now we know what we're going to gonna get let's have a little bit of an overview about who we're gonna get it from so tell us a bit about yourself Jack. Yeah absolutely so obviously my name is Jack Lowe I'm born and based in Blackpool and I did I think some of my takeaways is that I've done university after like three false attempts I've had a failing I've had a drop that I've kind of done university after like three false attempts. I've had a failing, I've had a drop out, I've had a deferred, similar with sixth form as well. So my relationship with education has always been a little bit complex. And then I've kind of returned as an adult learner, same with building my career. So for the longest part, I started off in tele sales

and then kind of went into customer service It was all these kind of entry-level roles and I just got to a point where I thought I need to get a little bit more serious about developing my career But I also have bills to pay I need to do what I need to do now So what can I do to really make the most of that and now as I'm doing my masters, you know I've got a definition for that I've got a term for it that we talk about around job crafting so what we can do to make that role you know fulfilling for us and get us to our long-term goals so really get a bit creative with it.

Amazing tell us a bit more about job crafting then. So job crafting is the term it can be done across different ways there's a few little breakdowns from it whether it's cognitive crafting so the way we think about our role very similar for those that are looking more at maybe mental health or clinical psychology around that kind of CBT what are my thought patterns around this and I know there's been several studies around people assessing their kind of well-being their mood and job satisfaction my thought patterns around this. And I know there's been several studies around people assessing their kind of wellbeing, their mood and job satisfaction based on how they think about their role, whether they view it positively, whether they view it negatively or whether

they view it as being important. So whether you're someone that is just cleaning the floors or keeping this hospital safe and sanitary to benefit people. And having that kind of difference in thinking pattern has a massive effect. But then also the more practical kind of task crafting. So what kind of tasks do I do in my day to day? What is it in my job description? And what is it I actually want to do that I'm passionate about that fulfills me, that challenges me? And I definitely think that's something I've been doing without knowing the term over the last

couple of years to really bring psychology to a role, even though it's not a traditional psychology role like an AP. Definitely. And I think that's something that really resonates with me. Actually, one of my very early podcast episodes is about making the most of kind of non-psychology roles to still strengthen and advance your career. And I think that's probably because of its age, it's one of the most downloaded episodes as well. But because it does matter, you know, what we learn along the journey does matter. And I wonder whether the concept of job crafting

that perhaps you and I have been doing before knowing what it was called maybe helps us to maybe not burn out as well, because it feels like you've got your own little sort of mission, your own kind of purpose. But I guess once you feel like you've reached saturation point, you might then risk bore out and it's then that you've kind of you've reached the limit of what you can gain

from that and maybe that's an indication that it's time to move on. 100% and I think it would be down to the individual what their core job is and maybe how far they can push some of the boundaries. I know in some of my say more entry-level positions or in call centres, you are very restricted to what you can do. So you do have to be a little bit creative to market other additional duties. But even things, well there's sometimes a little bit of a sacrifice to get what you may need. So I know in the past I've done volunteering work as well, it's an addition to my hours to fulfill those needs that I wanted alongside that I've

also volunteered with the BPS and sat on their committee. So again, to build experience and interest and have a little play around with what do I actually enjoy doing? Do I enjoy writing content? Do I enjoy supporting people directly and have a little play around with it, rather than just focusing on the kind of end destination of a particular job role. Yeah absolutely and I know I've worked in call centre as well before and thinking about actually the skills that we've got perhaps as a result of doing our undergrad that actually might mean that we are an asset to the service as well that we can kind of get involved with thinking about data thinking about

some of the kind of people management and the way that people work really well together and kind of productivity and proactivity as kind of Dr Joe Gray was telling us about recently. And yeah, for me, I found I was getting permission to do a little bit less of the work I was paid for and a little bit more of kind of cultivating the relationship with my manager to do other jobs that support the functioning of the team but also then reduce the pressure for me having to answer the calls relentlessly all day. 100% I know in the last two call centres I worked in the way I did it was through mental health first aiders. So in one of the call centres I was customer service. We were taking calls from people, we were actually overseeing

their payroll. So we would get people angry if there was an issue with their wages, if the people on the centre of the timesheet and we were processing payment. You know, they've got a weekend, they've got bills, they've got family. We'd get them in, you know, really high emotional states. And all, all times that we'd have people going off work for sickness, struggling with their mental health, workplace bullying, whatever it may be. So that's where I kind of saw an opportunity and said, well, actually, I'd like to be a mental first aider. We had them in the company already, but they typically were kind of our HR accountants and not people customer facing. So I said, this is why it will be a benefit. We all struggle with these calls, it gives me a skill, it's

something I'm passionate in. It's a you know, a bit of a no brainer, it suits everyone. So that was what I did. And I really enjoyed that because it allowed me to use different skills that were still relevant. So if I wanted to continue that was what I did and I really enjoyed that because it allowed me to use different skills that were still relevant. So if I wanted to continue going into a P role or a PWP, it's that experience of talking to people, you know, in an emotional state in a crisis, trying to support them, sound post, you know, empathetic and active listening and utilizing those skills in quite an untraditional context. And the last contact centre I worked in, we didn't have any mental health first aiders in

the call centre. We had a bit of a divide because there was two buildings. So you had one building call centre, then you had the other building that was all the finance, L&D, HR. So we were a little bit left alone. And I thought, well, nobody wants to speak to the head of HR. Let me again, become a mental health first aider, do it as part of your network. And then there's someone on the ground. And I was really popular as a mental health first aider. And it saddens me to think these people may not have reached out to support across the road in the other building. And so anyone listening to that I would definitely encourage that if you are

wanting to work more with mental health, the more clinical or counselling psychology side, that's a good way you can get some experience in a non-traditional role, in your corporate role if you are still working in call centres or in hospitality or whatever it may be, that's a really good way you can try and gain some of those skills and experiences. Absolutely, and if you can get it done within your job role where you're already salaried or you're already earning money, then that's even more equitable for you and for others accessing the career as well because obviously voluntary and honorary work

there's a whole heap of ethical considerations, but if we can kind of build that in and then get the skills, even when we're doing kind of on paper unrelated work, we're able to actually evidence these key kind of clinical groups that we've worked with, even outside of clinical settings. So of course, if someone was looking to think about coming into clinical psychology, the four core groups we'll often look at are children, young people and families,

working age adults, older adults, and people with intellectual disabilities. So if you're able to kind of almost become like a core champion in the work you're doing already for one of those areas. So I know for example one of my friends who's not an aspiring psych but works in a medical surgery really enjoys and has previously worked with people with intellectual disabilities. And so actually is now almost a champion for doing things within her work role to really support people with intellectual disabilities. And that's a really nice example of kind of job crafting that whatever you're doing, is there a champion? Could you be it? To help service run better, which will help the clients accessing the service. It potentially helps upskill other people in the service as well,

but helps you to evidence that you've got real skills in this area and to potentially identify future training you might need to support that. Before you know it, you're building those blocks on your way. 100% and it's definitely something I've been lucky I just kind of grasped some of the opportunities off. It's in my current role I'm part of a well-being network so I've been running workshops, I've been applying psychological theory, I was doing the hero model for developing psychological capital, so how people can prevent burnout and clit themselves. But again, that's very untraditional. It's not necessarily part of my job role, but it's something a lot of organisations will have both in public and private sector, offer champion roles and mental health first aiders, things around wellbeing or diversity diversity and inclusion and especially in charities as well,

a lot of the co-production groups as well. So again, all hands on experience with people directly going for, you know, a common goal and achievement, there's an objective there and then you can also apply your theory to that as well. Fabulous. I don't think we've spoken about the hero model on the podcast before. Are you able to tell us a little bit more about that, Jack? Absolutely. So I really enjoy the hero model. I think partially because it's got a very nice catchy title. In my workshop, I phrased it quite cringy, but I'm all here for a little bit of cheese of be your own hero. And then I talked about the hero model. So it was a wonderful segment for me. It was done by, I think it was, Lufthansa

Tower, I think 2006. And it is all around psychological capital. So the resources we have as an individual to make sure we're kind of resilient, we've got positive wellbeing, and there's been loads of studies around it especially in the workplace on preventing burnout, job satisfaction, life satisfaction and the HERO stands for things that we can do to build hope, self-efficacy, resilience and optimism. So a lot of things that we can do and I bring it into the workplace of what we can do as an individual and what we can do, you know, systematically across the organisation working towards these kind of principles. So things we can do for hope, things around kind of goal setting. So having a goal in mind to keep

us hopeful and also that sense of achievement. Self-efficacy is rooted in how confident we are in our abilities. So I try and promote that as individuals around that training, you know, what is it to make you feel confident in what you do? That kind of bleeds quite nicely into that resilience. So whether we're looking at things in a kind of problem-focused orientation or solution-focused, and if we've got the correct kind of training with that, we might be able to make better judgments and we can

workshop scenarios. And then optimism, I tend to do that a bit more on the kind of CBT based of things. So let's challenge some of those negative thoughts that we have, whether it's a case of 10 people keep emailing me for help and I'm getting frustrated. Can we reframe that something that's a more helpful and healthy thought of, I'm the go-to person when people need support and those little four things can really contribute to a much more kind of positive day-to-day working, sense of self and that's the hero model in a bit

of a nutshell. I love it, thank you so much. I love this podcast as well, how incredible to be able to kind of talk people through this. And I guess as you were talking, I was thinking about the optimism and I was thinking about when we're kind of in an education system, we kind of get used to thinking about what our level of capability is. And sometimes we find ourselves in situations where actually we feel like we're falling short of where we would usually expect ourselves to be. And I know this is something we spoke about before we hit record, that that's something I experienced probably both in A levels and in my undergrad as well. And I wish I'd known that actually it's okay to ask for help and actually if

you feel like you're not living up to your full potential, where you typically see yourself or what you see yourself as being capable of, please do get yourself to the Centre for Academic Writing. Please do reach out to your tutor. Please do reach out and ask for more specific guidance about how you can meet the criteria that you are being judged against. What would you say about that Jack? 100% it's something I've realized. I wish I'd realized it sooner. I've done two undergrads with the Open University and I'm now doing my masters at Birkbeck. My approach at Birkbeck has been very different in terms of I am reaching out for help and

making the most out of opportunities, whether they do Q&A's around the assessments. My mind frame now is going to this is not going to hurt me, it is only going to possibly help. So, whereas before when I was a little bit younger or doing it with the Open University, I think it's okay I've got the brief. Whereas now I'm, as Joe Gray would say, I'm proactive in my approach, I'm the one instigating help because tutors and colleges typically won't reach out. It's up to me to speak up if I want that support.

And it's something I encourage as well in work because I work with a lot of people, all aspiring psychologists, people in first year students. I'll say anything you want to discuss, feel free to send me an email, I'm more than happy to help, signpost, recommend, podcast, you know, whatever it may be. I've got my years of knowledge and experience that I want to share and there are people, you know, in colleges, in schools, in universities, who are passionate about helping students. You just need to say, hi, I'm one of the students that need help and they'll always be happy to. Please keep saying that and please keep Please keep saying that and please keep deshaming that process because actually I needed to hear that more than once and I probably only heard that maybe once at the start of my degree when I was 18 and actually I was 18, 19 and 20. I was a young one so I didn't turn 21

until I'd almost finished already basically because I'm a June baby. And I never once, I would say, sat on the front row of a lecture. It did tend to be the mature students, those that were 21 and above, but those mature students accessed and interacted with their education in a different way. And I always would have been like, if I'd been able to apply myself in the way that they had, I would have done much better. And there's no, you know, I think I almost got away from my roots actually. Because when I was in year seven, year eight and nine, I loved learning. I loved it. I did all the homework. I did all the reading. I was very motivated by that. I think my downfall was boys, Jack.

Yeah. Preach into the reading. I was very motivated by that. I think my downfall was boys, Jack. Yeah. Preacher to the choir. Year 10, I was like, oh, there's some boys over there. And I just did less. But I wish I'd known. It's cool to learn. It's safe for you to be, I don't know, the bod, the clever one. And you can do both things. You can be snogging boys and still learning and still achieving and that's okay. And had I carried that through to my degree, it's like it's okay for you to have this really vibrant life but also for you to still work as hard as you can and to achieve and definitely to ask for help, you know. Yeah, it's safe for you to thrive and for you to be clever and achieve. Yeah, no, 100%, 100%.

That's definitely something I've learned as a mature student going back. I've had several kind of what traditionally would be seen as failings in terms of I've had to drop out of college. I think I actually did sixth form three times. Then university, I think I did two full starts. And then I kind of cracked it with the open university returning as a mature student. I did that twice and now into a master.

So there's definitely got to be a sense of, you know, you've got to put in the work and the effort. And that's something I've, it sounds cliche to say it, but I've definitely noticed when I've put in the effort and the time into my studies it's paid off and my grades have been great and I think oh I actually just need to buckle down and book that day off work and just do it but there's also a case of sometimes it's got to be the right time so I know I've definitely tried to do stuff with university and college where I wasn't in the right headspace, I didn't have the right support and I was doing it because I wanted to do it but it wasn't the right case for me

and stepping back and then returning to that I can see actually sometimes it's got everything's got to aligned when I've got the motivation and the capacity to actually learn and engage fully because I don't want to just do it you know with half effort especially when we think around things like student loans or if you're self-funding you know you don't want to waste that money that opportunity because there are you know regulations on how much funding you can and can't get do it and give it everything. That was going to be my next question actually that, that, you know, I want to thank you for normalizing that actually, sometimes it doesn't work the first time, sometimes it doesn't

work the second time. But actually, if you still feel unfulfilled, or if you feel like actually, there's a different angle to this, or that you are now more able to apply yourself, or to hold yourself accountable, or that your life factors are more stabilized, it's okay to go back, it doesn't matter what other people are saying. I'm sure when you said you were going to apply yourself or to hold yourself accountable or that your life factors are more stabilised, it's okay to go back. It doesn't matter what other people are saying. I'm sure when you said you were going to uni for the third time, there were people who probably had opinions about that. But it doesn't mean they're more important than your opinion and your ability

and your need to self-actualise. Can I ask when it comes to kind of, I did student finance, I know that sometimes you have a maximum number of kind of years of undergrad and post-grad finance you can draw on, you might know more about that than me. Could you talk us through that a little bit, Jack, if you can? Yeah, absolutely. So again, I will put this one down to luck. So I did my first undergrad with the Open University. I did language studies. I had two passions. I've had them since mid-teenage years. I've always been passionate about languages and cultures and psychology, so very people-focused. And so after a failed attempt

at university in France, I was going to do psychology in France to save both needs, but it was very poorly planned and I just arrived at the university with a suitcase. There was minimal support there. I was technically homeless. I was staying in some hotels and motels in the south of France and I thought, no, this isn't what I hope. I need to come home. So I went to Liverpool Hope. Again, it was a last minute decision and that wasn't the fit for me. I wasn't in the head space. I think I was struggling a little with my mental health,

my sexual orientation. So I just came home, worked for a couple of years. And I think about three, four years later, I was working, I was doing bar work and it was four in the morning, you know, washing bare-soaked bare mats and cloths and everything. I think I want something different. I need to get back into education. There was a delay with the student loan so I deferred it for a year and then I actually got funding because it was my

first tuition fee loan. So I was informed you can do it until you complete the degree. So with the Open University they have very flexible schedules. So whether I did it over three years or up to 12 it'll be funded because it's the one degree and that was the kind of allowing part. I got a third in the end of that which I wasn't happy with. I definitely think I could do better but again I think it was that case of maturity and just kind of going through the motions with the studying. So I wanted to kind of look into psychology again what I was really passionate about and at the time I think it's still the case you can get funding for a second undergrad if it's a STEM

subject. So because psychology is a science, it was applicable. So I was actually lucky to get funding for a second undergrad where I invested a lot more time and effort. And I went up from a third to a two one in my undergrad, which was an amazing achievement for me. It was definitely more of a reflection

of what I believed I was capable about. And it still fulfilled those needs. So I'm quite lucky in that respect. And but, yeah, so you're funded for whatever the degree is in completion. And there's also additional funding if you want to do a second one of STEM. So I'm lucky I did that order of languages and then of science. OK, amazing. And I understand that actually the Aspiring Psychologist podcast

might have been instrumental in giving you a final shove towards your identified masters, is that correct? 100%. I'm not embarrassed to admit it. It was two or three events, so I know I actually went to see you speak at the BPS Career Festival I think in 2023. I think you were the keynote speaker and I thought, well, need to work something psychological, you know, it's good to hear some of these kind of diverse working patterns. At the time, I think I was either in tele-sales or customer service, so again I was struggling to get into this space. I was doing my job crafting and my mental health first aid and at

that time I was thinking of going down the kind of trainee PWP route and I was going to be you know person facing and do support that way and then I listened to the podcast you did with Joe Gray who we were joking about actually on LinkedIn the other day because she was actually one of my tutors and doing my masters I didn't realize it was the same Joe Gray, but she was explained around organisational psychology and that sounded so fascinating to me for where I am in my career. I'll be honest, I quite like the corporate lifestyle. I like a nine to five, I like a home office, which I know in mental health work's not always the case. And so it was a case of what's the right fit for me

because I love helping people. And that's my kind of mission statement for who I am. I want to help people. And again, I had to get creative with how I was going to do that between what I want to do is my kind of innate mission, my calling between my, I also want a stable job, I also want a stable income, I want something after my

own well-being and then I heard about organizational psychology on this podcast and I thought yeah that's the sad fact, that's what I'm going to do and then I found the Masters with Birkbeck, it's one year to 18 months with the dissertation. I thought it fits my lifestyle. I could get funding for it as a Masters. So I just went for it and it's been great I must admit. So thank you for the podcast episode. Oh thank you. You know the idea that I'm my little baby that I came up with in my kitchen one day when I was cooking tea is actually helping shape people's career options both now but also in the future.

It's not lost on me, it's a real privilege. But also it kind of, you know, I don't earn money from this podcast. It cost me 500 pounds a month of my own money to put it together and that's without even taking a wage for it. I don't charge for my time. So the fact that people are building time into their weekly schedules to watch it, to listen to it and to actually take the learning points from it to change their lives, change their family's lives and potentially the lives of the people they will work with in future, you know, it's lovely. So I'm really pleased that it ripples because I've recommended the podcast to people. It's even shaped my perceptions, my experiences when I'm now supporting people. I can

think of at least five people in my role who I'm kind of unofficially supporting or coaching just whatever they need who are you know aspiring psychologists in one capacity or another and again that's helped shape you know my perspective to support others as well so it definitely ripples out. One of my favourite things is when people request access to the aspiring psychologist community which is my free Facebook group there's a little kind of Q&A there how did you hear about the When people request access to the Aspiring Psychologist community, which is my free Facebook group, there's a little kind of Q&A there, how did you hear about the group or how did you hear about the podcast? I love it when people say, actually, my university lecturer

told me about it. I'm like, oh, that is so nice. That must feel amazing. That is so nice. Because it's getting quite leggy now, really. It will be four years in December, I think I'm right in saying. That's not a new podcast. I am currently in preparation for planning the 200th episode and what that might look like. And that's been 200 weeks of my life Jack because because of the way I work I need to either be on or off. So with the podcast I am on every week, every week for you know what are we now 187, 188 something like that. Every week there's been a podcast episode and all of the backoffish

shenanigans that go with that each of the episodes has about 200 steps involved like and for me like that's just one of my regular go-to's I work with my accountability coach Ben to just make sure that I'm you know covering all these Anyone time I've got kind of maybe five six seven different episodes at various different stages of production. Like it's a military operation. But actually, the fact that it's making a difference and becoming, becoming like a regular, you know, a stalwart in psychology is amazing. So thank you to you, Jack. And thank you to, to my listeners and watchers as well. What a treat. I think that's a good assessment, something I know I did in my undergrad as I'm sure many people listening today will have that kind of panic over grades,

assignments, classification. I really had to do a bit of reflection and think what is it I want to do. Similar to what companies will have, I gave myself a little mission statement, which I kind of just alluded to, of I wanted to help people. In my head, or especially in year one or year two of my undergrad,

in my head that was simply, I want to help people, I've got to be a clinical psychologist, I've got to do steps A, B, and C. And that was at a very limited lens. And as I was panicking about grades I was trying to come up with a plan B and I thought well actually if I want to help people there are many different ways I can help people it doesn't have to be solely as a psychologist and then

that's when I've tried to diversify what I do so even my now, so my job title's regional support officer. So I work as a regional manager, supporting services and teams. So on paper, you know, it's not very psychological, it's not very supportive. And it's something I kind of bring to the role. So I do have staff members ringing me in times of crisis, or if they need emotional support, I've delivered interventions to the people we support as well. I've put things in place around training and inductions, again, to support people. So I'm still fulfilling my mission statement of wanting to help in a slightly untraditional way.

But even yourself, like you say, with the podcast, that's not a traditional duty one would expect of a clinical psychologist, but there are ways that you can help people in an untraditional sense, you know, your community, your listeners, people getting that support they need from a relevant source. It's accessible, it's not behind you know a paywall if you've got Spotify or you know AppMusic and any good podcast platform, they can access guidance from leading professionals, which again is a creative way in job crafting really.

Absolutely. And I will tell you off camera what the plans are for the 200 episode series, but it's very excited. So yeah, watch this space, listeners and viewers, and I will tell you more as soon as I can. Jack, is there anything we haven't covered that you think would be really useful for us to do before we finish together today? I think one of the things I would like to say to anyone listening and watching today

is don't be afraid to get creative with your experience and your journey. It's taken me many years to kind of end up where I am. And that was just making the most out of opportunities. And some of the kind of positions that I know a lot of students more cover for around the trainee PWPs, APs, DECLINs are very competitive. So not to get, you know, disheartened with that.

Make the most out of what you do have, whether it's, you know, aened with that make the most out of what you do have whether it's you know a psychology related role or not my role is not psychology related whatsoever on paper but it's my approach I approach things with evidence-based I approach things with theory and so I definitely want to encourage people with that engage in that kind of job crafting behaviors try and find something that fulfills your needs and the needs of your employer and there will be ways that you can kind of do the two you know together and really reflect on what it is you want to do, what you want to achieve and just going back on

the experiences as well. Think of the ways you can market them to employers when you are going for declines or the AP roles. I often find because I've conducted a lot of interviews in this current role, sometimes you need to be quite clear with how your marketing skills, similar to how we would write essays, you know, once you've made a point, relate it back to the question, relate it to how that's going to benefit your employer. If it's, you know, a time you overcome something, tell them, that means I can keep cool, calm and collected in a, you know, a situation. Let people really know what those skills are because they are all transferable.

As cliche as it sounds, sometimes you need to connect the dots for whoever you're interviewing rather than make your own interpretation. Yeah amazing and I think I would really encourage people to not think about a timeline you know so absolutely if you've done your psychology undergrad and you know you're like oh I'm 21 now I need to be an assistant psychologist by the time I'm 22 I would say that's probably unrealistic. That's probably putting more pressure on yourself than you need because actually people who

are often getting shortlisted for AP interviews have maybe done a few years of relevant experience roles. They may already have done a masters. And so so yeah, take that pressure off and don't assume just because you've got a psych undergrad that you can go on straight into an AP role because it's not impossible, but it's very uncommon, even when I was graduating. And yes, do still apply for the jobs because you might get lucky, but please know, speaking from someone who is quite seasoned in this now, you really will be a better assistant if that's the route you're wanting to go down for having done those relevant experience roles.

So by the time I was an AP, I had worked as a student support assistant at university. I had worked as a home carer. I had worked in a call centre as we've already covered today. I then went and worked for Milton Keynes Council for two and a half years in a rehab assistant role for physically disabled adults living in the community. I then did some honorary AP work using my annual leave for 10 days across a couple of months I did that. And then I got a paid AP role. So that is not straight out of university. I also went travelling around the world for six months and saved up to do that beforehand.

So yeah, really do take the timeline off this, I would say. Yeah, 100%. My timeline has not been cohesive to follow. And I was trying to map it out mentally for this journey. I thought, I forgot I did this small stint in the south of France back in 2013. What was I thinking? Definitely make just enjoy the journey, not the destination as cliché as it is and enjoy the experience and just think of it as experience gaining diverse experience That's something I like as an employee when I'm doing interviews with people for support roles is what can they bring to the team? What is suitable for us? What experience have they got working with people. And whether it's, you know, people with mental health issues, drug and alcohol and substance learning difficulties, it's still a supportive role helping people.

It's just might not be the way as a student, you've planned it as a perfect linear fashion, but it is all relevant. Just enjoy that process, Make those connections as well. You know, your own kind of career network as well. And slowly it does kind of get there to where you want. And get your reflective journal out, you know? Write about this stuff. Really think about shaping, growing,

looking at your vulnerabilities, looking at your strengths, really honestly start writing, you know do it either on your phone or an actual book or on your computer, start it, do it, keep it up. 100% in both the corporate world and now where I am working kind of third sector there is a lot around reflection. It's something we encourage with our practitioners and recovery workers, you know, to be aware of their own shortcomings, whether it's more professional weaknesses around systems and case notes,

or whether it's something in the therapeutic work they do. It's something you've got to be mindful of if you are thinking of working in mental health and counseling, even if you're thinking more of in mental health and counselling. Even if you're thinking more of a corporate world as well, so what I do in organisational psychology, again, we have to do a lot of reflection for our biases when it comes to recruitment, selection, job design.

So there is always reflection when you're working with people and the interpretation of people. So that's definitely a skill you can't develop enough. That's again come with age but I would definitely recommend it for anyone listening and watching today. Yeah amazing. Thank you so much for your time in speaking to us today Jack. Please do keep us updated on your career path as it unfolds as well and yeah thank you again for pitching this episode. path as it unfolds as well. And yeah, thank you again for pitching this episode. I think it's going to be such a useful shot in the arm to so many people, but also just, you know, letting people know it's okay that and that's something I'm proud of now that I have failed. I have failed several times and it's not going to plan but I've made the most out of

that and now I'm at the start of this really good kind of career trajectory. I'm towards the end of my masters now, I'm just doing my dissertation. The journey will never stop, there's always something you can learn, there's always ways you can develop. So don't worry if the grades are never quite what you expected or the jobs aren't quite what you expected. They all form this bigger puzzle that is you and that will definitely form your career later down the line as well. Amazing and I think I also did an episode on all the ways I failed in psychology or the seven ways I've failed in psychology or something like that.

So what I'll do is I'll try and remember to mark that as the next episode on YouTube. But if you enjoy this chat about failure and you want to be validated in your own failure, do take a look out for that episode. Thank you so much for your time, Jack, and enjoy the beautiful blackpool sunshine, won't you? Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you again for having me today. Thank you. Thank you so much for my guest today. Please do drop some support, some encouragement into the comments if you're watching this on YouTube. Please do like and share this episode and if you're not already subscribing to the channel please do so. Subscribing to channels and following podcast shows of any creator that you

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I bought the book The Clinical Psychologist Collective to help myself prepare for my first round of doctorate applications and I'm so glad I did. Seeing how others have reflected on their journeys has been so insightful and it's given me a lot to reflect about with my own journey and skills. It's also helped to put things into perspective and reminded me that if I don't get onto the doctorate this year, that's okay. I think the most unexpected pleasure of this book, however, was just how inspirational each and every person's journey was, and using these stories as my morning motivation each day has been

such a pleasure, I'm almost reluctant to come to the end.