The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Sikhism, Values, & Imposter Syndrome in Psychology with Dr Gurpreet Kaur

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Show Notes for The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast Episode 96: On being a Sikh, Imposter Syndrome, and therapeutic relationships with Dr Gurpreet KaurThank you for listening to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. We are almost midway through application season – I hope this is going okay for you. In this episode of the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, we welcome Dr Gurpreet Kaur, a Sikh clinical psychologist and an EMDR practitioner. Join us as we take a delve into discussions around imposter syndrome, reflect on spirituality and learn more about Sikhi. Gurpreet also talks about the importance of connection and therapeutic relationships and the experience of working with South Asian communities. Plus, Dr Kaur gives us a top tip to reduce burnout – helpful to all, and discusses resilience. Join us as we learn, grow and reflect on our personal experiences and our work. We hope you find it so useful.I’d love any feedback you might have, and I’d love to know what your offers are and to be connected with you on socials so I can help you to celebrate your wins!The Highlights:(00:00): Summary (01:08): A reminder on support for DclinPsy application season(02:16): Introducing Dr Gurpreet Kaur(03:40): The importance in fact-checking psychology related content in the media(06:26): Gurpreet’s road to Clinical Psychology to EMDR(09:06): trauma in minority backgrounds (10:09): What exactly is Imposter Syndrome? (13:21): Sowing seeds of change in schooling and working life to support wellbeing (15:20): The power to change the view of people(17:43): Give yourself the permission to learn from yourself, others and everything (19:18): On being a Sikh and pursuing psychology – lessons and reflections (21:17): Why are cultural diversity and therapeutic relationships important?(23:55): The need for “Sangat” and spirituality in Sikh communities (26:28): Ultimately, spiritualty is unique to an individual(27:47): Generational mismatch, disconnection, and Veechar (30:29): Marianne’s little tip in making connection(32:56): Making sense of experiences & the hard transition to get therapy (35:19): building resilience – learning and growing (39:06): If you’re hitting a wall, take a step back, reassess and take a different step (41:40): Connect with your identity, your internal self and your values! (44:00): Connect with Dr Kaur (46:27): Support for application season and close Links:👉To connect with Dr Gurpreet Kaur: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drkaurtherapy/ https://www.instagram.com/drkaurtherapy/ https://www.tiktok.com/@drkaurtherapy?lang=en🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97 💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to:

Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up on today's episode, I talk to Dr. Gurpri Kaur, who is a qualified clinical psychologist and EMDR practitioner. We are talking about so many different things, including

who should be and could be being on social media as a psychologist, but also talking about her faith as a sick and what that means to her how she sees the world and we just generally have conversations about culture faith respect dignity it's such a great episode and i hope you'll find it so useful if you're looking to become a psychologist then let this be your guide. With this podcast at your side, you'll be on your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr Marianne Trent and I'm a

qualified clinical psychologist. As you listen to this episode, we are in the middle of clinical application season for the clearing house and also for the educational psychology program too if you would welcome some additional help guidance and support please do check out the free compassionate q a sessions that i run across my socials but there are also replays available that you can listen to or watch on Dr. Marianne Trent on my YouTube channel. Whilst you're there, please do like and subscribe, check a comment in. And if you really like an episode, please do consider sharing it to your network too. So one of the things that we will absolutely need to learn about in any psychology profession and in working with people generally is about faith and culture and how that might show up for them what

barriers and what opportunities that might create for them and I had got chatting with my guest for today on social media and we'd started to have conversations along those lines. I hope you'll find this really interesting, regardless of your own background and your own culture, because there is so much to learn from speaking with others and learning about the way they see the world. I will look forward to catching up with you on the other side of this episode. Hi, I just want to welcome along my guest for today, Dr. Gurpreet Kaur. Gurpreet is a clinical psychologist and an EMDR practitioner. Hi, Gurpreet. Hi, Marianne. Thank you for having me. Thank you very much for being here. We first

became aware of each other sort of on TikTok and LinkedIn, I think. But I feel like, like yeah you've been on TikTok since I joined TikTok so you've been like an omnipresent face um and that said people should come and follow you because you're doing really well on there much much better than me um but yeah I really like you know the videos that you create and and what you do on this it's lovely to be able to spend some time with you kind of face to face in person thank you so much and likewise I really enjoy watching your content as well and I really think it's important what you're doing trying to talk to people who are at that space where it's probably a little bit scary and predictable and I think it's really important to talk to you through some of the issues that are probably coming up for them thank you so much it's so kind of you to say

and just before we went on air we were thinking about actually a change you've heard about on YouTube that means actually it's going to be hopefully easier to find content from qualified professionals because I'm not sure about you but one of my bugbears is when people perhaps have just done a psychology degree or even read a psychology book and then call themselves a psychologist and then sometimes putting out quite dangerous information online no absolutely and i think that's the reason we're out here aren't we trying to get the information across to people but no i think there are changes on youtube where they're having people who are actually accredited qualified practitioners out there and they're somehow labeling them as that as well so i think it's a new update that we can all look out for and hopefully they're somehow labeling them as that as well so i think it's a

new update that we can all look out for and hopefully they'll do that across most platforms as well because i think that's really really important yeah that would be incredible i think sometimes a tricky thing is especially in journalism as well is that if somebody's got the bare face cheek to call themselves a psychologist then sometimes the qualifications are assumed and even even with a degree and even with a master's sometimes people will think well of course that's enough of course they're qualified but what we know is actually it's only a professional qualification that gets you qualified it's so broad isn't it psychology is such a broad term then the amount of categories

that come underneath that and then how to you know qualify yourself in one of those areas it's it's enormous so no actually you really take that with a pinch of salt when somebody calls themselves a psychologist gets your radar wagging doesn't it like it does that's why i was happy you were on um the was it was it was it was it BBC Five, Channel Five? Doing your work. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Get more qualified psychologists out there. Thank you so much.

And to anybody who's like, I don't know what you mean. I can currently be seen. So we're recording as episode two is about to go out on Channel Five in Inheritance Wars, Who Gets the Money? So if you're watching watching or listening to this on replay you should be able to probably watch episode one two three maybe even four by the time it comes up but I think I might be in each episode so thank you so much for your kindness and support so we weren't on here to talk about media we weren't on here to talk about um social media followings and you know proper people being qualified um across these platforms but what we really wanted to think a

little bit about was you and your career and your faith and how that has been you know interwoven with psychology how that's important for you and and some of that stuff really so could you tell us a little bit about your psychology history and career to date please? It's a really broad question I think where to start um I started you know with the psychology route I suppose at A level because that was my first insight into psychology and what it was went on to study it at degree level and then I went on to do a master's as well and I wasn't really sure about what route I wanted to go down or what I wanted to do as a psychologist until really into my degree where this idea of clinical psychology opened up to me. We're talking about

the late 1990s now so this is a very long time ago and I didn't really know much about clinical psychology and what it was but it sounded very. So I started to find out a little bit more about it, went down the assistant route and, you know, very luckily I was able to get into a good course. And that's how kind of the process developed for me. But it wasn't a particularly easy one. I certainly wasn't one of those psychologists who just applied and got on the first time or did one assistance post and that was my experience I think it was quite a slog and when I think about it I do think that some of maybe my factors related to my background so parents were working class I didn't have anyone that had gone to university around me I didn't really know what this whole arena of clinical psychology was there was certainly nothing like this that existed at that time so

it was hard to connect with people and find out about it so it was really a process of just learning and figuring it out along the way and I ended up kind of getting into clinical psychology that way amazing and what's your current specialism where do you work what do you do so I worked in the NHS from 2001 that was pre my qualification um really as assistant psychologist and then all the way through up until around I'd say 2018 where I started to sidestep into private practice and that's really just because mother of three kids you know trying to balance it all the constraints of the NHS as well and feeling a little bit like I couldn't thrive there so I started to sidestep into private practice in Surrey where I'm based and I actually work online so I can see people from wherever and I think

throughout my career I've I always felt that some of the models in the way we were taught particularly during training were were great and I think they've all got their you know positive aspects to them but some were quite limiting um and I find that I found that personally there was a lot more that needed to be spoken about with certain clients than was than we were being courage encouraged to do maybe on the course so I found my interest really in trauma and I felt that that perspective enabled me to get a real good sense of a person's struggles and create a great formulation about what they were experiencing and why they were struggling and so that's the area that I've started to well

more recently I've really started to specialize and focus in that so that's why I went on to study the EMDR became a practitioner in that and quite interestingly how I'm seeing trauma show up for people especially from minority backgrounds is as imposter syndrome and so that's they're the kind of two areas that I'm very, very interested in. So the early experiences people have, how it impacts them growing up, and then the impact of that as an adult, in that sense of that imposter feeling that they have. So quite diverse background, but I'm very specialist now. Okay. And I always try to save people a Google in case they don't know what something is.

Could you tell us a bit more about what imposter syndrome is and how it might show up for people? So imposter syndrome is a term that was developed in 1978. It was actually by psychologists who found that there was a group of women who despite their high achievements, despite how good they were at everything, they just felt like they were not good enough. They felt like their success was not their own to own. And they felt like their strengths were just, you know, they kind of put themselves down a little bit. And so that's how it is today. It's people who are perfectionists. It's people who fear failure. It's people who have that constant need to feel like they have to do do better despite putting a lot of work into it and maybe sometimes overwork with that as well but it's inherently that sense of not being good enough and I think that shows up for a lot of people and unfortunately I think a lot of the

systems that people work in and the organizations actually encourage that sense of overwork overperform be a perfectionist because that's what we want and that will get you the rewards. So it's a system, systemic issue, I think, as well as a personal one, unfortunately. Yeah, I don't know what your experience of parenting children in modern schools is, but it very much for me seems that they're trying to give more attention to everybody regardless of ability levels and trying to make sure that everybody is not always the same children that get you know certificates and awards and praise and it's not you know it's not just the children that are struggling that are getting the attention so even during so I think we've got our youngest children in the same school year, but the SATs happened last year and they were giving everybody extra tuition in our school year so that everybody could do better rather than just, you know, just specific children. I think there's obviously a COVID fallout here in terms of our children and what they've been through for their early education.

But for me, it feels, because I was a governor for two years as well, a parent governor, it feels like they're really trying to do what they can to make everybody feel worthwhile. worthwhile and you know what we go through working with people with trauma is that you know sometimes school might be a safe place and they try to really it's probably school dependent but really holistically we meet the needs of a child and so I do hope that that in time things may you know even our emotional literacy and our ability to talk about our feelings may be better than for my age group I think and certainly the way we raise our boys you know I think schools are being much more mindful and certainly with all the gender stuff that's going on currently very much more mindful about things not just being for boys and not just being for girls and that boys don't need to be tough and not cry and brave and yeah I think it's very interesting having even you know I'm 42 even reflecting on the way that I was schooled and what my experience of watching

others be schooled was to now what's your take on all of that Capri? Oh it's all very different now and I do think there is much more emphasis on the child's well-being. You're seeing a lot more focus on that. My concern is that I think it's great in that it's sowing seeds, sowing seeds that maybe our generation didn't have in our school experience. I do get concerned, actually, if it's not mirrored at home or if children don't experience that sense of safety or that kind of language around being able to express themselves or emotional vulnerability it's still going to create a disparity isn't it between what someone's hearing at school and what someone's experiencing at home so unfortunately I just think it's more of a systemic issue I think

the schools are doing what they can do which is great but again it's only a very small part essentially I know when we're at school we feel like it's forever but it really is such a small part of a person's lifetime isn't it and then if then they fall into a career that actually demands very very high standards of them for them to be just okay or on par with other people I think that's where the damage can happen because it can really fuel some of those earlier negative core beliefs if they've been picked up along the way in yeah in situations that may be a bit more adverse and so yeah no I think schools are doing what they can I just think there's a lot more that can be done and I do think that there's more opportunity for people to learn with for example us you know therapists on social media there's a lot more information out there in terms

of mental health mental well-being mindset work all of this stuff and I think companies are getting a lot more into this as well so they're recruiting a lot more people to come and talk but I think it's that part where people are giving themselves the permission to think that actually this applies to me. Let me sit and figure out my beliefs. Let me think about actually what are any barriers that I have? What are my blocks? What are my pain points that I need to probably do some work on? So it's kind of a mixed bag, isn't it? Yeah, I think what you're describing so nicely is the work that you and Dr. Claire Plumley and of course, Dr. Julie Smith have done is, is de-shaming, you know, what people are going through and knowing that actually, it's not my fault, the way I'm feeling and you know,

the things that can be done and I don't deserve to suffer, I don't need to suffer. And to have some confidence that that can change that's really powerful that's absolutely it there's a really nice hashtag that's you make sense on uh instagram I can't remember the therapist that had that but I thought that that's it because we're told so often we're made to feel so often that there's something wrong with us that because we don't fit in it's because us, or because we can't perform in the same way, it's because of us. And I think that's it. If you can understand your life story, your life circumstances, the situation that you were born in, the cards you've been dealt with, then it just gives you so much more grounding in who you are and acceptance, hopefully,

to move forward from that point, rather than some version of yourself that you think should exist based on some external definition of what a person like you should be like I think it's just a marrying up of all those things really isn't it it is and I honestly I just I just feel like we've got the best job in the world like I just I love how I've been able to learn and grow and develop and I remember when I was in my probably mid-20s and I was in a job working for local council and I just thought oh this is it I'm like I'm not going to make any more friends I'm not going to have any more friends I'm not gonna have any more like big opportunities oh this is it oh and then soon after that I then got a paid assistant post and had a big expansion of friends and then you know regular supervision and being able to grow and learn and shape and develop and all of the

supervisors I've had along my journey have really helped have a look at myself and my impact on my clients and you know I don't know about you but every supervision session I have I learn something more about myself or ways to help clients and it's like it's so invigorating it's not stagnating at all it's an amazing career and actually I think that that whole personal professional development bit that we've we're told from day one is so crucial it's so very very important and giving yourself the permission to actually be able to learn this stuff for you you know not just learn for your clients or not just learn because your supervisor suggested that this is important for you to learn and pass all the course requirements I think just to be able to benefit from that ourselves and to take that on board I think

that's a really crucial part and actually that part I feel really sits well with myself as a Sikh as a person who comes from Sikhi which is a religion that it's a way of life that is fairly young compared to some of the other major religions, in that the word Sikh actually means learner. And so to be able to give myself that permission with my job and what I do, to be able to actually just learn and soak up all of this information for myself, to keep learning and to keep understanding what are the new models what are the new theories I love it it's it's it's a bit strange sometimes I don't know if you feel this but it's quite surreal to be able to have that

permission to be able to do that with my job it's it's a it's a privilege it really is it is and I'm glad you brought up your religion there because I was wondering how that has impacted on you and the way that you see the world and your clients. And I wonder if I've made a horrendous faux pas all of my life because you've just pronounced it sick and I've always called it Sikh and Sikhism. Have I been doing that wrong all the time? I don't think it's the right or wrong. I'm not here to tell anybody you know i'm just so glad that you're aware of it because it's actually one of the fifth biggest religions i like if you like but it's fair there's not much known about it i think so you can we say sick because that's the way we pronounce it that's just our our way of verbalizing it seek is fine but if you would like to go forward saying sick you know that's great it comes from gorsik because our religion is based on the idea that

we had some gurus you know showing us the way like we had 10 gurus and so if we are following this way in this faith then we become a sick of them so we become a gursik um but no don't think that you've made some big error or anything like that it's it's a learning process and again all we can do is just keep learning isn't it about each other's cultures religions perspectives and I think it's just nice to be able to bring this in so casually actually into this conversation because there have been parts I suppose of my career where I've not been so comfortable to actually bring in who I am um so it's just nice to be at a point where this is a fluid thing that can now come into conversations. Yeah. And, you know, what I love about our profession as well is that we get a chance to work with people from, you know, either as colleagues or clients or both from such a variety of backgrounds.

I remember when I just started in a heart of Birmingham service when I was just qualified and I was given a load of little books that are given to children about different religions and the first one I picked up was Rastafarianism and actually until then until the age of what was I 30 29 30 or something like I think I might have been 30 I hadn't realized Rastafarianism was actually a religion I just thought it was like a sort of Bob Marley way of being I didn't you know I didn't realize that that was actually a religion a way of life and you know I think it's incredible isn't it like what we can learn and how we can understand the way that others might see the world. Yeah absolutely that's a crucial part of what we do and I think as an

effective clinical psychologist I think that's the bit that makes the difference so I think there's there's a tendency when we're very early on in our career very early on in our training to just try to do what we're told in terms of you know meet those assessment requirements think about the intervention think about the model theory and all of that but I think it's so important to really sit with a person's culture whatever that is and however that shows up for them, rather than our definition of what that should be for them. And I think that's very, very powerful. And that's the bit that can really create that relationship and that therapeutic bond that can be very, very healing for a person. I can't remember the name of the paper or actually much about it, but I remember quite early on in our training, we were told that the most important part of a successful therapeutic intervention is actually based on the relationship between you and the therapist rather than the model, rather than the theory or anything else that you do.

And I thought that's really powerful. Why is that not emphasised more? I wonder if that's Rogers. Was it Carl Rogers and his kind of relationship-y type stuff? He's certainly spoken about that, but it might not have been the one that you're thinking of. I think it was a specific paper and they did like a diagram. I should try and find what that was.

But it was quite a large percentage of it was actually based on the therapeutic relationship, which is process-based, isn't it? And I think that can be emphasised by actually sitting with and trying to understand who is this person in front of me what's their relationship to their world their environment their culture their spirituality their race everything that actually people probably don't ask them much about that probably they may not sit with much that maybe they're they're walking around just with, you know, their, I suppose, assumed versions of what they think it is, rather than sitting with it and actually thinking about it separately from a different perspective. So I think that's really, really powerful.

So, you know, I think that anyone who is sick who's listening to this will feel excited that we're having this conversation, but probably the majority of people listening will be thinking, well, what is sick who's listening to this will feel excited that we're having this conversation but probably the majority of people listening will be thinking well what is sickism and how might my clients who are sick um be viewing the world or what you know what what cultural constraints and you know opportunities for them to flourish have they got and whilst we can't pigeonhole people sometimes it's useful to even you know even things like for judoism um you know you might not want to make plans with them on a friday evening because they might have plans you know what might we be able to learn or think about how to be inclusive and understand someone who's who's sick so i think it's a tough question to answer in a way because

there are i don't think there are set things that might necessarily like you could refer to in that way to say i'll connect with this or connect that but actually one example that's coming to mind is I had a trainee on my course ask me because he was feeling quite a block with an elderly sick gentleman he was working with who had depression and we spoke about something that's quite important in our faith which is which is community and actually connect finding a way to connect with his sangath again at his local gudora and which is the place of worship and actually such a simple intervention for that elderly Sikh man to hear this young white British you know professional to suggest

actually have you got any sangath can you connect with your sangath it was quite transforming for him apparently that was that in itself was such a small thing, but it had a powerful impact on him, because it somehow reminded him of actually a key tenet, which is actually we do need Sangha around us, we do need Sangha who are inspiring, we do need people who can uplift us, and we do need to feel that sense of connection as human beings, so I think that's really really important spirituality is obviously a very very important part of Sikhi and that's going to look different to everybody not coming in with any assumptions I think about what that looks like for people is going to be an important aspect but it can look like actually you know some kind of meditation some kind of prayer

some kind of singing through what we call gitan or listening to keep them which is religious songs and i think that's that can be quite an important discussion to have with people because i think with any faith or with any practice there can be some quite heavy connotations about what they should be doing and what they should be practicing or how they should be doing that and that in itself can become quite burdensome for people so I think trying to allow a person to connect with any aspect in a way that feels more meaningful to them is the discussion that probably needs to be had with that person rather than what they should be doing it really comes back to that CBT approach doesn't it try to take away any of the heaviness, to try to neutralise the thoughts and try to

really reconnect your values to what your understanding of your practice is. So I think that's essentially really, really an important part of it. Thank you. And do all six cover their hair? That might sound like a really basic question, but I've certainly got friends who don't um and but you but you you do could you guide us through a little bit along that those lines please but absolutely not you'll get people who who cut their hair who shave their kind of beards because traditional Sikh men keep their beards and we keep our hair that's really an important part of Sikhi um but again it depends on that person's connection to their religion so I think that's an important thing to talk about.

Just because somebody looks a certain way, we cannot make any inference about what their level of connection to their religion is or their faith or their way of life. So it always comes back to that one to one discussion with that person in terms of what meaning it has to them. Absolutely. It's how does that matter to you? How does that show up for you and thinking about the messages that you've been given from your own family and I know when I was working in heart of Birmingham there was lots of conflict actually with young people who had been raised who'd been born in Birmingham but their their parents were first you know they they were born elsewhere in different countries and there was lots of conflict between kind of the east meets west of of the usually

young women wanting to grow up being western but not wanting to alienate and upset their family and it's really really tricky road to to try and travel I think that's I think that's going to be a conflict for anybody really isn't it coming from a different culture where their parents may be our first generation and they're born second generation here and it's thinking about how to maneuver that I think a lot of the blocks that I see actually when I'm thinking about some of the South Asian clients I see because I think it is a really broad category of people who probably struggle with this there always seems to be some block in communication in terms of actually what maybe the expectations are and the why and then connecting to the value is this important for you

and if it isn't why is it important for you So there seems to be a very big mismatch between parents, the generation that came here, what they understand about what's important versus children here. And sometimes that's because actually the values may be not being lived. You know, if children don't see the adults actually living out their values, there will be a sense of a disconnect that could be it could be due to numerous reasons couldn't it but I think parents coming here it was just such a stressful time you know to come here and you know manual workers just working as many hours as they can to to give us that security um and I think that again that can cause some sense of kind of disconnection as well can't it there's that sense of it's it's not neglect but it's almost like an intentional neglect there isn't there and so a child is going to go looking elsewhere probably and they're going to go towards their friends they're going to go towards their

school they're going to go towards kind of other sources that are more interesting for them and so that disconnect can unfortunately start happening and i think think the repair for that or the way to try to overcome that is what we're trying to do as parents nowadays, I suppose, in our generation is talk, talk, talk, explain, converse, have conversations, contemplate, which, again, is a very important part of Sikhi is this idea of vijar, where you're able to have discussions around all these concepts around all our experiences around the difficulties and sometimes unfortunately I think that is the bit that causes the block when that doesn't happen and then you just you're kind of clashing heads yeah I absolutely agree um and I really want to make sure that that we're getting all of these terms right and so what I'm

going to do is once we've got the transcript for this show is I'm going to send the little pieces with with words that are not native to me to you to make sure that we're spelling them right um and perhaps we'll on socials that week we'll get like a little a little thing going with what what it means and what it is and how you might hear that and represent you know recognize that when it thank you that's really powerful even that in itself that's a really respectful thing for you to do so I appreciate that thank you I just I'm always keen to learn and you know whenever I've worked with people whose first language is not English and we've had to have an interpreter I've tried to get them to

teach me how to say hello and how to say goodbye and I've written that in my diary and then when I see them I have I have used the hello and goodbye I wish it stayed in my head after we stopped work because I would know loads of different um different languages for hello and goodbye but it doesn't like look at what's on this child's name it's just it's just gone but it matters doesn't it in that moment when you're trying to forge relationships and you're trying to make somebody feel really, really safe to share, you know, really harrowing times in their lives. It really is important. It's a form of connection. It's a form of being seen, isn't it? It's a sense that actually this person in front of me has enough respect to see a version of me that is important to me and I think that's that's the bit that I

think can help really make a therapist um you know develop that bond with somebody that they're seeing to actually show that person that I see all of you and even though this part might be a tiny tiny part I recognize that this is really really important for you this goes for supervisors this goes for everybody really working with another person. It's just an effective form of communication, I think. It's basic respect. It's basic respect as well. It's making me just so fondly reflect on some of the clients I have worked with across the years West stuff, sometimes what I'm able to give them as a as a Western woman is to be compassionate, to be seen, to be heard in a way that's really, really de-shaming. or in different situations abroad to then come here and kind of get my western perspective on

that to help them be more compassionate and realize it's not their fault it's really really powerful I'm not suggesting that west is best at all but sometimes I think it's more expected or or just kind of brushed under the carpet in in certain cultures and not even even nationally here in the UK as well but sometimes having someone just draw attention to that wasn't okay that happened to you that must have been really really challenging can be so liberating for people I think that's huge that's a really important part of that therapeutic space isn't it and I think that in itself can cause a block for people coming because there can be I suppose there has to be some way when you're not in that therapeutic

space there has to be some way to make sense of what you've experienced and so you know in a lot of South Asian cultures I don't know if you've seen it on social media there are so many memes there are so many reels on how you know the discipline was quite severe but somehow they've made it into a comical experience um and sharing that with friends like I used to get hit with this or I used to get hit with that and I think that that that is a way of making sense of the difficulties and the harsh discipline that a lot of people um experience growing up it's not just South Asian culture you know this is quite prevalent i think for a lot of people when they're growing up so then to think about actually do i need therapy for that because yeah i know i'm a bit snappy i know i've got a bit of an anger issue

here i know that i i you know i'm short-tempered or whatever but do i need therapy for that no i'm okay because everyone else had this as well and that's a shared experience that i've got so that makes sense and i think so that way i think it causes a bit of a problem that actually people kind of latch on to the meaning that they make of their adversity and that prevents them from then going into this space that can feel quite alien like what would that feel like for someone initially to sit with someone who's saying gosh that's harsh how are you how do you feel and then to open up what that could potentially feel like that I think that's a really really hard transition to make so even to get to therapy is such a hard very hard transition for a lot of people yeah I agree and even today this morning I

was having a chat with someone and you know I'm not the sort of clinician that's gonna chat to you on the phone and then book you in my diary I was like you need to have a go away have a think think about whether you feel this is going to be a good fit for you and there's no timeline on this you know entering therapy is such an important decision and I hope it will be life-changing for you so I really want to make sure that you're comfortable with this decision and that you feel that now is the right time. Because sometimes clients just want to put a toe in the water, make contact and then run away for a good six months, you know, because it's just not quite now. It's just not they're not quite ready. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. I agree completely. I mean, it's making me think about an experience I did a call out on my social media because I do intensive work and I thought I had like three

slots I wondered if you know anybody would want to do and had so many inquiries had so many people interested but then to actually book that in to kind of sign up to that there was a real real drop-off because of that commitment you know it's so hard to actually kind of go and do the work so a part of that is actually building yourself up prior to getting on with the process not just jumping into that process and actually thinking about obviously the people listening to this and the journey that they're on that in itself is building them up isn't it for to get ready to go on to the clinical psychology doctorate all of that learning all of that preparing listening to podcasts like this

listening to to more people talk about their own experiences I think that builds up some sense of I don't really particularly like the word resilience but there is an element of that there because I do think it's a tough process to go through and I think you have to kind of really be very strong and firm in who you are and the why like why are you doing it before you even start that doctorate because that brings with it a whole different kettle of fish doesn't it it does and you know the I think resilience was a word that came up time and time again in the aspiring psychologist collective um and for me it's almost can be a little bit damaging because sometimes there can be a tendency to use resilience resilience just a bit like a sponge to soak up really loads of

rubbish treatment from people and I guess that's not what I mean and I know that's not what you mean either it's about just keeping the goal in mind. And because it took me three times to get on the clinical doctorate. And it's not just clinical psychologists or aspiring ones who listen to this. It kind of tries to be inclusive, but probably most people are looking at clinical. But for me, if I quit after my second attempt, then I wouldn't now be a clinical psychologist so there's something around that tenacity and resilience and determinism that has got me to where I am and of course maybe there's something about me that but of course my own privilege that's allowed me to be supported

well enough just about well enough in some cases to get me there to feel safe enough to have food on the table and you know so there's absolutely conversations to be had around that as well but you do you know for the most part need to be able to keep going and keep going in a way where you don't know when there will be the finish line you imagine or hope for so hard it's bringing it back to me it's a long process as well it's almost like a year isn't it I think the whole churn of it but it is a very hard process and but that's what I think what I mean every time you go through it I think you you keep coming back to the why like why am I doing this what's the point

can I do this can I keep going on and that in itself is a learning process because you keep growing with it, you know, I think it's, I've known people who have tried, I think I met an assistant once who was on her eighth go, you know, she just wasn't stopping and she got on, you eventually, I think the system ends up working for you some way or another as long as you keep learning with it that's the most important part isn't it to just keep learning and growing with it rather than internalizing it trying to think it's something about you making it about actually how you're a failure and all of those negative thoughts try and step away from that I think that's so massively important and just remind yourself this is a big system and you know eventually you just

need to find your way to work it yeah absolutely and certainly the advice I would give is don't use your form from last year because you know you know I love the way you said churn it does feel like a churn like oh here we go again um in the space of a year you should have changed like so much since you last wrote that form um and so don't look at it like look at last year's until you know you're maybe a few weeks away from submitting in case you've missed a golden nugget that you did put in last year but for me I would say always start again because you're you know you're living a different life and even if you're in the same role you should be thinking differently about

the work you're doing in the space of a year absolutely keep learning keep growing keep talking to people about their experiences keep asking questions that's the process it's just you are like a sponge because you just want to absorb everything to keep checking whether it's what you want to do to keep learning about the different areas of psychology that exist and the different ways of working and if you feel like you're hitting that wall then that's the point isn't it to step back and kind of reassess and maybe take a different step or a different action forward but keep learning so so important we don't stop learning and it's kind of coming back to the earlier point that we said that's the benefit of cpd cpd that's the benefit of talking to people with networking liaising you just learn

so much about how we can help people differently i think that's the great opportunity of this work it really is we've got our placards but this is what i want for people so whoever whoever they are, whoever, whatever discipline they want to go in, even if it doesn't end up being a professionally qualified psychology discipline, I want them to love what they're doing and where they're at and to know that that's possible. That's key. That's key. I think people coming into this profession have core values, don't they, of compassion, of kindness and wanting to connect with people and that's always got to feel good I think that's always got to be a guiding force for them so I agree I think it's just about keep doing what feels good keep doing what feels right it's not

always going to be a great easy experience as you all know but I think as long as you can keep checking in with whether it's in line with your values with where you're at that's the most important thing I love that and I feel like honestly I could talk to you all day um but time is slightly limited because of the podcast could you give us maybe your top tip for reducing burnout um for aspiring psychologists if that's okay oh gosh top tip I for me it always comes down to what I just said there with your values and being really connected to your current sense of identity and who you are and where you're at and I think a lot of people overstep that so we're so busy in our lives we're so busy with the doing and the trying to reach the place that we think we should be at, that we don't often pause enough with where we're at and reflect enough on that process and how that feels for us.

So doing a lot more of that, really sitting with and really, really thinking about like, where am I feeling internally? What are my values? And what is happening around me to connect me to those values? Or what is pulling me away from those values and what can I do to help myself feel more balanced with that I think that's so so crucial so a lot of just the sitting with the reflecting and just kind of encompassing all of that within compassion because regardless of where you're at there are going to be challenges and if you can start to develop that compassionate voice within yourself I think that's going to be challenges and if you can start to develop that compassionate voice within yourself I think that's going to be one of the most important and most powerful tools

you will take forward and I remember you saying actually Marianne I listened to one of your earlier podcasts I'd be interested to know if this statistic has changed but you said the self-compassion one was the one that was downloaded the least and I find that so interesting because that's the problem we tend to overstep the stuff that's going to help us so really really do think about actually what are you doing to tool yourself up in a very kind way that connects you to your values really important um the yeah the compassion I think was one of the least three downloaded episodes so what I will do is I will seamlessly look at the um look at the stats and then when I do the outro for this I will give people the answer to that little riddle

but yeah thank you thank you for highlighting it's so important isn't it and it's for me it was the difference that made the difference and I wish I'd picked up literature on self-compassion whilst I was an aspiring psychologist um because I didn't discover it until I wasion whilst I was an aspiring psychologist because I didn't discover it until I was qualified until I was a mother of two until my dad had died in 2008 I think it was and so you know just think about what a gentle journey I could have had on myself had I had self-compassion in my world that's perfect because it's a journey either way isn't it so is it going to be a brutal harsh one or is it one is it going to be one that actually can be quite compassionate with yourself about and actually just nurture yourself through because you will

be growing and learning either way so I suppose it's that choice point that Ross Harris talks about and it's just deciding which way am I going to tackle this and how am I going to get myself through this because you will get through it one way or another you will thank you so much for your kind words and your thoughtfulness and your time today in helping us learn more about about you and the way you see the world and your culture and your religion as well oh thank you so much Marion you're really easy to talk to and I love what you're doing here so absolutely if anyone has any questions just touch base reach out but no thank you for inviting me along oh and we haven't done the where can people connect with you so we should definitely do that where can people hang out and and meet you and get to know more about you and your work i'm so sorry about that no no that's fine i'm on social media um at dr core therapy

so if you can you can access me uh instagram tiktok linkedin facebook at doctor core therapy lovely and for anyone who is not watching that on youtube that is k-a-u-r so doctor is d-r and then k-a-u-r therapy and that's that's you across all of your platforms is it oh yeah that's it love it a bit of consistency thank you again for your time and let me know if I can help with anything in future but it's a pleasure to speak to you in person too thank you thank you welcome back along what an incredible conversation and what a pleasure it was to speak to Dr Gurpreet Kaur I hope you found it a really interesting list and in answer to the question about the compassion episode it is episode number four so it was way back there in the early days it has since increased its popularity it is now up there with um in the top three pages of downloads um but there are 10 pages so it's still only on page three so

they absolutely could do with a little bit more airtime, I think, for sure. But yes, not doing as badly as it was. So maybe me saying it was one of the least downloaded episodes has helped people. Please do remember that the Clinical Psychologist Collective and the Aspiring Psychologist Collective book are really, really useful companions for you. Whatever stage of your career you're at there are links in my descriptions for both of those if you've got any ideas for future podcast episodes please do let me know and if you'd welcome some more advice support guidance do consider the aspiring psychologist membership which you can join from just 30 pounds a month and there's loads of great stuff in there about completing your form about reflecting about cbt about formulation and so many other useful

bits thank you so much for listening if you are watching on youtube like i said please do subscribe please do drop me a comment i will look forward to catching up with you for the next episode of the aspiring psychologist podcast which will be available to you from monday 6 a.m thank you so much for being part of my world and be kind to yourselves take care if you're looking to become a psychologist Thank you. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent. My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological wellbeing practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become

a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me of confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay but trust me you will not put the book down once you start.