The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - The 7 reasons you can't be a psychologist

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

Starting point is 00:00:32 the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Ever been told you shouldn't be a psychologist? In this eye-opening episode,

Starting point is 00:01:07 we are debunking the seven most common misconceptions that might be holding you back or making you question your compatibility with a career in psychology. Get ready to challenge those doubts and discover the truth about what it really takes to thrive in this incredibly rewarding profession. Let's break down the barriers and redefine your perspective on becoming a psychologist. Stay tuned. Hope you find it useful. Welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. But would I be if I had received other messages about myself as part of my journey when I was an aspiring psychologist? Would I be if I had already

Starting point is 00:02:00 believed certain things about myself, my capabilities, my opportunities as I was growing up. Let's take a little bit of a look into seven reasons people might think they're incompatible with this fantastic career of psychology. Reason number one, you won't cope, not with your mental health or not with what you've been through or actually what I've recognised and seen in you lately since you've responded to this, that or the other crisis in your personal life. I just think this is horrendous. told to people by people who are supposed to be qualified, who are supposed to believe in capacity for change and growth, you know, potentially to be the people that are supposed to be helping support employees through episodes of crisis. This cropped up recently for me as part of a Facebook group that I'm in, and somebody's supervisor had actually told them this and I was horrified because for me as a supervisor I think my job is well how can I help support you through this difficult time

Starting point is 00:03:13 how can I be my optimal best to give you what you need to you know if not thrive through this period, survive through this period, so that you can go on to have growth and to come out the other side. And really, one of the main reasons I would say that I started this podcast was to provide listeners and the watchers on YouTube, subscribe and like if you are watching on YouTube with an alternative narrative. If you are in a team or supervised or know of psychologists who don't seem to want to fuel you, to help you, to, you know, sprinkle compassion around liberally, to make you believe that you can do this or to inspire you to want to do this you know you're not seeing that good practice that's making you go yes this is the reason I'm doing this now this is one of the reasons I put the podcast together to give you hope to give you

Starting point is 00:04:17 an alternative perspective so you know the idea that this is being told to people is really horrifying for me. And it made me think about the time that I was doing a master's, distance learning whilst working full time. I had had a car accident. I had back problems. I was seeing an osteopath and physiotherapist for due to the car accident. I'd broken up with a partner, a long-term partner at that time. Things were really tricky for me at that time, but at no point did anybody say, this isn't for you. You know, I guess because I held it together, I was doing still what I needed to do, but it was a hard time in my life. But that was

Starting point is 00:05:02 the cycle of applications that I got onto clinical training. And I do believe it made me a better clinician for navigating those experiences. And it also made me reflect upon one of my dear friends and colleagues, Dr. Cara Davey, who lost a child, who gave birth to a stillborn daughter. And it had been incredibly difficult, incredibly painful. And of course, continues to be as well, you know, it shapes us and our experience and what we think of the world and how we perceive risk and, you know, our hope and all of that. But, you know, had that happened to her in the earlier stage of her career, she might have felt that she wasn't, you know, cut out for psychology or she wouldn't cope with it. Or maybe somebody might even have told her that. Because, of course, some certain key events will feel like they decimate us personally and professionally because they're big, because they, you know, you will see this either in your own lives as you care about or in colleagues friends sometimes big massive things happen to

Starting point is 00:06:12 humans and we have to be able to navigate through that and you know you learn a lot through adversity is what I would say and it might well mean that you end up making that your clinical specialism, as Cara has done. So Cara does lots of work for people that have had loss pregnancies, loss of children and late miscarriages or stillbirths. And it's incredibly useful. And I know the people that work with her find it really useful that she's had similar experience. Whilst you don't need to get hit by a bus to know that it hurts, it sure does help for your empathy. But yeah, in terms of mental health, I think if your mental health is well managed and you are accessing the appropriate treatment and mental health support if needed.

Starting point is 00:07:06 There's no reason you can't be a psychologist. It might be that you use supervision and ongoing therapy, and you stay mindful, and you know, hopefully, by this stage in your life, what keeps you well, what helps you thrive. And so it's going to be, like any of us, it's going to be your responsibility to make sure that as much as possible, you're getting that balance that means that it's possible. And it also made me think about a story that someone had told me about when they were an assistant psychologist, and experienced two massive traumas in the same year, a loss of a fiancé and a loss of a father. That's a lot to go through. And that person was told by a supervisor, I don't think you're going

Starting point is 00:07:54 to be psychologically strong enough to be a psychologist. I think you ought to think about doing something different, which is just incredibly galling. How can you expect anybody to go through that sort of year and not be impacted upon it? But I know that that person is now a qualified psychologist and does a really, really good job. And so, you know, whatever stage of your career you are, as you're listening to this, just be kind, just be mindful, be supportive. You know, let's not be a hater. Let's know what we know about mental health, about, you know, difficult times, about being supportive. And let's think, you know, of course, you might have clinical concerns about somebody's ability to do a job. That is a different issue. You know, if you don't feel like they are doing things enough to be able to safeguard risk, and, you know, that is a separate

Starting point is 00:08:54 issue. But, you know, the reason to exclude somebody from the career of psychology is not just because they've had a mental health history. It isn't because they've experienced trauma in their own lives. You know, this is a case by case basis. And maybe someone needs a period of sick leave. And that's okay. That doesn't make them a failure, doesn't make them not cut out for the career of psychology, whichever discipline they go into. You know, let's think about supporting our colleagues. So that was reason one. Reason two is that somebody is either diagnosed or, you know, identifies with or even just has traits of, doesn't want to go through diagnosis. Issues of neurodiversity, that might be

Starting point is 00:09:38 autism spectrum condition, disorder, whatever you call it or refer to it as. It might be ADHD, it might be dyslexia, it might be dyspraxia, it might be a whole range of things. And for that, I would say, you know, let's not be too ableist here. You know, our clients that we work with are going to be very diverse and you know why shouldn't our mental health services be made up of people that are equally diverse and colourful that's what I believe you know variety is the spice of life and how can we learn more about shaping our services and making sure they really are fit for purpose if we are not talking the talk and walking the walk and listening to the voices of people who know what it is going to be that makes a difference and this might be a really nice opportunity to tell you about a very exciting book project that is coming with two of my colleagues,

Starting point is 00:10:45 one of whom you've met already, Nikita, who is currently a first year clinical psychology trainee, and Dr. Vicky Jarvis, who is a qualified clinical psychologist. And very excitingly, this book now has a title. It is becoming a thing and it's beautiful it is called an autistic anthology neuro narratives of mental health professionals and if you're listening to this and you think yes I would love to get involved there is still time so this book is for people that either identify as having autism or have a diagnosis of autism. That is what we are looking at. So if that describes you and you'd love to tell your story in a collective anthology, please do get in contact with me and we can do our best to get you in the book, which we should

Starting point is 00:11:37 hopefully be on track for publishing in the summer. We need to break that stigma, you know, that people with issues of neurodiversity cannot be working in mental health. So you don't have to be a psychologist to contribute to that book. But if you work in mental health, we would love to be able to feature you in that if you've got a story you would like to tell. So yeah, you know, somebody with ADHD, for somebody with dyslexia, for example, you might need some additional support, you might need some planning, some more proofreading. But these are options that are available within universities. And when you are employed, there are options for access to work and inclusion and all of that. So, you know, if you can have the dream, you can shoot your shot. Just because those issues might be around for you doesn't mean you can't

Starting point is 00:12:32 or you shouldn't be a psychologist. Reason number three, perhaps you're already a parent or you'd like to become a parent in the next couple of years. And for that, I would say, don't forget, we did interview Rose Dunstan, who at the time was a trainee clinical psychologist, and also a parent. Do check that episode out if you think you might find that useful. That was episode 25. You know, I am a parent and I had my children after I finished training, primarily probably because I hadn't met a partner that I wanted to have children with earlier. Otherwise, my own journey may have looked different. And all I can speak from really is my experience of parenting now, which is post qualification. And children do shift your priorities. They do make things a little more

Starting point is 00:13:29 complicated. They do mean that you need to plan more in advance. But, you know, the other day, I wrote six chapters of a book in two hours because that is the time I had available. If that had been write an assignment and I had two hours, I would probably have got the bulk of what I needed to do done in two hours. Whereas when I was training, if I'd had an assignment and I had a whole week to write it, it would have taken me a whole week. You know, I think what erringting does is it helps you identify the gaps where you've got to be able to get things done and it empowers you to get them done. Now, of course, that's if your child is well enough. It's if you've got childcare. But, you know, a training course and counselling

Starting point is 00:14:19 trainee doctorates, you are having to do placement hours, you're having to do university time, you are having to do often work on the side to be able to afford to live, you know, you're having to do assignments and the same with obviously clinical psychology and forensic psychology. What I would say is if you're a parent already, you do need to have enough hours in your day to be able to do all of the things that you need to do. So sometimes it's possible to to do your training over a longer period of time but you would usually still be doing it full-time you know so you can have maternity leave or paternity leave or parenting leave or adoption leave but at that point you are expected ordinarily as far as I'm aware to come back and do it full

Starting point is 00:15:05 time so you do need to have enough hours in the day to be able to do it and to be able to get it done and to pass what you need to do but it is possible to be a parent or even to become a parent whilst you are training to be a psychologist and speaking as a qualified psychologist, it most definitely is possible to be a parent when you are working as a qualified psychologist. So I have to confess the most I've ever worked as a parent is four days a week. For me, it did feel essentially like I was doing five days of work in four. But when I had my second child, I went down to three days a week and that definitely made me feel more part-time but of course that does come with a drop in salary which feels like a bit of a kicker but I once worked with a forensic psychologist who didn't at that time have any

Starting point is 00:15:58 children and still only worked four days and just had that one day a week for herself, which at the time I found it really hard to get my head around that she'd requested that and she didn't have anything else to do. I was like, what do you do? Like, what do you do with that day? She goes, whatever I like. And I couldn't get my head around why you wouldn't want more money and to work full time. I don't know why I didn't get it. I get it now. I get it now. So yes, that obviously has a financial implication if you do work less, but it can help you have a little bit more time for yourself. It can help you have a little bit more time for your children if obviously you do have children. And for me, it assuaged some of the guilt that other people were looking after my child or children

Starting point is 00:16:43 more than I was. You you know I really loved my mummy days um so I used to have Wednesday off which was really nice because a really nice break in the week it meant I had Saturday and Sunday went in for two days had a day with me and my little boy and there was only us at the time and my husband of course but he was at work um and then I went in for a Thursday and a Friday and it was marvellous and then when I went three days a week I had Wednesdays and Thursdays off and it just was so good so good I loved that I think back to that very fondly and it just meant that I was fully committed as a psychologist on the days I was there and then you know I loved being a parent and having the chance to do more of the school runs when they were a thing

Starting point is 00:17:26 or go to baby and child groups do all those things you know swimming lessons you know baby sensory gymnastics like just being a mummy and watching my children grow which was really really important to me so you definitely can be a psychologist and a parent I am living proof let's take a little break here to listen to a jingle about one of my books and I hope you enjoy it and I'll see you very soon If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guide. Filled with lessons and experience that will help you get qualified. So come and take a look. It's right here in this book.

Starting point is 00:18:20 It's the Clinical Psychologist Collective It's the Clinical Psychologist Collective Welcome back. In the first half of the episode, we were thinking about three common reasons why people might have been told or might believe they are not cut out for psychology. Let's plow on with reason number four is issues of physical health, or maybe even that you are a wheelchair user. Now, I think and hope we are very much moving to a more inclusive, less ableist perspective and viewpoint on this. And if you are a regular listener or watcher on YouTube, you might well recall that we very recently met Dr. Yvonne Waft, who is a wheelchair user.

Starting point is 00:19:20 We also met Gavin Clark in episode 111 and we have him coming up again in 119 and he is a wheelchair user. We also met Gavin Clark in episode 111. And we have him coming up again in 119. And he is a wheelchair user. And so hopefully, at least what we're doing with this podcast is we are opening your eyes and your vista for what psychologists look like, you know, they don't all walk on two legs. Some of them wheeling in badass wheelchairs. You know, that is what modern psychologists look like. And of course, they might well have more difficult journeys, different kind of different landscape to navigate in order to get to be working in psychology. So Yvonne spoke about kind of in the past that meetings had been on the wrong floor and there was no access for her, you know. But I hope in modern UK, certainly, that this is changing and that when these things are observed, because of course course if there's never been anyone

Starting point is 00:20:26 who's a wheelchair user in the team before the building is just not equipped for it that necessarily these questions haven't cropped up but once they are noticed and observed I hope that that action can be taken so that everybody can comfortably use and deliver services, regardless of whether they walk, whether they use a stick, whether they use a frame, or whether they use wheels. So that is our reason four. Reason five is linked to pay and esteem and respect. You know know maybe someone has told you you're not a proper doctor you know you're not really that important or is it really worth accruing all of that student debt just to sit around and hear people's problems you know I don't think you ought to do that perhaps you ought to focus on being a medical doctor perhaps you ought to focus on being a medical doctor. Perhaps you ought to focus on something where

Starting point is 00:21:25 you're going to be more lucrative like law or accountancy, you know, but you get to do what you want to do and what feels like it lights you up and excites you. And that's kind of regardless of what your family, what your friends, maybe what other people in your circle or even in your teams might think. You get to do, you get to strive for doing what you want to do. And sometimes, you know, having difficult conversations can be useful in terms of advocating for ourselves. And I know if you come from a family that's kind of very set in what its expectations of you are, that can be challenging. But it doesn't make you wrong for wanting to do what you want to do. And ultimately, it is your life. We're not living our lives for our parents, for our grandparents. You know, we are also growing up in different times than they were, and we were

Starting point is 00:22:25 allowed to make different choices. And maybe, I don't know, maybe this is a sexism thing as well. Maybe they think women shouldn't be working. That is still around in some cultures, in some families. That's still some people's experience. And that is not true either. Regardless of your gender, you can be a psychologist. And so I hope that is useful if that's a message you needed to hear. Reason number six is about career progression. You're not going to move up the ladder. There's not enough. You know, you'll be band seven, you'll be band eight.

Starting point is 00:23:01 You know, you'll struggle to get much beyond that. It's a bit boring. It's not diverse enough. You you know what can you possibly do you're just sitting in a chair all day how's that going to be enough for you to which I would say that's just not true you know I look at psychologists you know even my own career I see clients for therapy. I do this brilliant podcast. If you're watching on YouTube, like and subscribe. Share this episode. Tell your friends. If you're listening on Apple or Spotify, please do rate and review. radio, print journalism, online journalism. Like my career is so diverse and so broad. And I see, you know, educational psychologists doing similar things. I see counselling psychologists. So my friend and colleague, Dr. Tara Quinn-Girillo, who we recently co-authored the book Talking Heads, Your Guide to Finding a Qualified Therapist in the UK was published and she's doing brilliant things as well. You know, you are not limited. It is not

Starting point is 00:24:14 a little box that you will find yourself in. Even in the teams, if you end up employed, there is still diversity in that career. You can still look to carve out niches for yourself. And you can also move jobs as well. So I went from being a CAMHS clinician for four years to then moving to become primarily because I wanted to work closer to home and it was a pay rise to then working in an adult mental health service. And it was a very big change, a very big jump. But I guess I was looking at the needs of myself and my family at that time. And it was a very big change, a very big jump. But I guess I was looking at the needs of myself and my family at that time. And it's been transformational for me. So had I not had a family, I might well have continued in CAMHS. And who knows where I would be? I loved my role in CAMHS,

Starting point is 00:24:57 but I also love where I've ended up. So it is a broad career. It is a long time that we will be working in it that said please do check out episode 109 of the podcast which was myself and ian dempsey an independent financial advisor where we were looking at pensions let's make sure that you are going to yeah have enough money when you get to retirement it's a great episode and it's doing really good things on youtube specifically so go and check that out there is absolutely not limited growth i know of people working in band nine i know of qualified clinical psychologists who have gone on to work at directorate level in nhs trusts it's infinitely possible there is growth. If you have the drive, I would say psychology has got the opportunities for you. Last but not least, reason number seven,

Starting point is 00:25:54 it's a thankless job. You're never going to make a difference. Mental health is too big for little old you to make a big enough ripple. That I would say it doesn't matter even if you make small ripples, even if you just do one-to-one work with clients and that makes a difference, that's enough. How many times in our lives do we get bored of hearing if I hadn't done this work with you, I would have ended my own life? That is incredibly powerful and that matters. Recall some stats on cost of suicide to the economy because, of course, when a life ends, that means they're no longer earning, they're no longer working, they're no longer paying tax, they're no longer buying things from the corner shop, they're no longer going to

Starting point is 00:26:49 supermarkets, they're no longer going to gyms. You know, there's a massive financial impact and a loss to society for each and every person who ends their life by suicide. And that's not supposed to sound like a criticism. It's not. It's that this isn't just a loss to families and loved ones who care about this person. This is a societal loss, you know. It's a loss of hope. It's a loss of that person's life being different. It's a loss of them being able to do something really incredible for their community, for the world in their living years. So obviously, sometimes things go on after people have ended their own lives that go around them as part of people setting up trusts or charities. But how wonderful it would be if that person had been better supported to go on to do these

Starting point is 00:27:46 incredible things whilst they were living we do great things psychologists are great whichever profession whichever discipline it is that you want to go into it's just brilliant i've said it before i will say it again i have the best job in the world. I get to do so many brilliant things and it's honestly a privilege. It's a pleasure. You can go as big as you want to go. You can do what I do. You can write books. You can do media to impact on as many people as you like, or you can keep it as little as you like, but it all matters. And thank you for doing what you do. So we've taken a whistle-stop tour through seven reasons that you might have been told, or that you might believe, means that you cannot have a career in psychology. I'm really hoping

Starting point is 00:28:40 we have debunked those myths. And if you would like to connect with me, please do come and do so. There will be a QR code on screen if you're watching on YouTube. But basically, I am Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. Please do check out the videos on screen that are being suggested to you if you're watching on YouTube. Please do consider coming along to the Aspiring Psychology community, which is my free Facebook group. And if you need a little bit more support or guidance, please do consider the Aspiring Psychologist membership. People are getting great results and finding that they even get assistant psychologist roles because they are feeling so much more competent and confident in their abilities. I will look

Starting point is 00:29:21 forward to coming to you with our next episode of the Aspiring Psychologist podcast which will be around your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. With Dr. Marianne Trent. My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological wellbeing practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about

Starting point is 00:30:40 becoming a clinical psychologist I definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay but trust me you will not put the book down once you start.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - The 7 reasons you can't be a psychologist

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