The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - The Killer Psychologist - Childhood Trauma Unveiled with Dr Dana Anderson

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

Starting point is 00:00:32 the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up in today's episode, you are in for a treat as I talk with Dr. Dana Anderson, forensic psychologist in the USA and host of The Killer Psychologist. It is a fascinating listen

Starting point is 00:01:13 as we navigate complex trauma and what it is like to grow up in the States where there are guns everywhere. We look at how she rose above her personal circumstances and how she used determination, commitment and empathy to have a different outcome for her and her own children. It is a fascinating lesson and I absolutely adored it. I hope you find it really useful. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. I had wanted to chat with today's guest for a little while and I am so pleased that we are able to bring you this episode. It is just incredible. It

Starting point is 00:01:58 was an absolute pleasure to speak with Dr. Dana. And we just had a really wonderful connected talk where everything was slowed down, thoughtful, kind of curious. And I just absolutely loved what we did. So I hope you find it really useful. And I would love your feedback. I will catch you on the other side. Hi, just want to welcome along Dr. Dana Anderson. Hi, thank you for joining us. Hi, I'm so excited to be here. I had a wonderful time meeting you last time and I was I'm so excited to connect with other psychologists because sometimes it feels a little lonely. It does, it can do. And we first met on LinkedIn, didn't we? Because you'd sent me a connection request and we're slipping into each other's voice notes. And then I was like,

Starting point is 00:02:49 should we just get together and have a chat on camera? That would be really fun. Yes, yes, I love it. A lot can be lost through social media. And I like to leave voice messages just so connotation isn't lost in text to just say, Hi, I'm happy to meet you, or let's get together or something like that. So it seems more personable. I definitely agree. And when we met for like a pre podcast chat, and that was a few weeks ago now, wasn't it? And we just had had so much fun didn't we yeah maybe it's like the bonding of psychologists we I know what you've been through like you know we've been through the school with the program like we have some understanding and we're both uh entrepreneurs now we've started our

Starting point is 00:03:42 own business and I want to learn from others that have not only gotten their psychology degree but now you're an entrepreneur you're a CEO you are making it all on your own and that is something that we're not taught in school how to run a business absolutely and and it's it's I find it really empowering and almost moves me to tears a little bit to to hear you call me a business owner and an entrepreneur and a CEO and actually to begin with when I first started so I started my company in 2019 I was almost a little bit embarrassed of my little business. And it was, but actually, along my journey, you know, we're currently speaking in, where are we, April, let's look at my calendar, April 2024, I would have failed the MMSE on that one, wouldn't I? April 2024. And I feel so proud. You know, that's been my my development my growth I'm so proud to be a psychologist but also to be a businesswoman you should be proud because there was a day in time when women weren't psychologists. They weren't accepted.

Starting point is 00:05:06 They weren't allowed. The first woman that got her PhD, they wouldn't recognize her as being a psychologist. And I always think of that. Right? How would you like to be her? I think she'd be proud of us now, right? So her cohort would have been able to call themselves psychologists, but she wouldn't.

Starting point is 00:05:29 Or she was an individual PhD, so she wasn't able to get that title. All of the men that got, I mean, historically, it was white men, you know, particularly from privileged backgrounds. And they got PhDs and they were psychologists. And the first woman who said, I could do this too. She went through the whole doctoral program and they said, good but you're still not a psychologist. And she's like, rude. And so, so much has changed through the years. And I was raised in a very sexist upbringing. And my dad didn't want me to get an education and went through great lengths to prevent me from getting an education. And even like mocked and made fun of me, even when I was pursuing my master's degree. And he said it was just a waste of my time.

Starting point is 00:06:35 Who did I think I was? What was I doing? And I thought, what am I doing? But then I thought, how could I go wrong to seek information? How could that be bad? What if I learned something I hadn't known? What if he's wrong? What if we're all wrong? How about I just know more, and then I'll decide. And then I remember, he definitely didn't want me to pursue psychology. None of my family did. They were very religious

Starting point is 00:07:06 and I got ostracized. They thought psychology was like the opposite of seeking God. So, so they, I was ostracized. So when I got my, when I got accepted into a doctorate program, I didn't tell anyone. It wasn't really for anyone. It was just for myself. I didn't need anyone to say, oh, cool, you got accepted. It was like, I'm just doing this. So I drove and commuted and I went to school and I didn't really, I was like, I'll just figure this out on my own uh it was met with such opposition but I think if you pursue something do it for the right reasons like it's it was for my own knowledge my thirst for knowledge and perhaps people in my family were just not educated on psychology and it it really impacted me yeah and it sounds like

Starting point is 00:08:14 you've who knows we all need therapy but it sounds like you've done a remarkable job of not holding that against them they just didn't know they didn't know. They weren't in the state to be able to know how incredibly important that would be and how empowering that would be. But they clearly raised a young woman who knew her mind and was determined and focused and is going to, you know, she's got tenacity. She's going to show up for herself and she's going to do what she wants to do kind of regardless of what you think because she knows this is a good thing yeah it's funny my mom always said it's funny she said uh that I was always standing up on the inside I said what you said like when I would tell you something to do you would do it But you were standing up on the inside. So I like always had this, I want to say attitude, but like, I would be, I'm always sort of questioning authority and questioning everything. I think that can be a good thing. I'm not to be an independent

Starting point is 00:09:26 thinker and to question things. If you are going to be an entrepreneur and branch out on your own, you're maybe not a rule follower. You're not the nine to five working in a prison, a state hospital or something. You're not just a yes, sir person. There's problems in the system. And I saw that and I said, well, I have some solutions. I have some good ideas. There's also a lot of unethical things going on, and I'm not just going to comply. I said no. And that's one of the number one things you're going to see in, I'm going to say forensic psychology, but I think anyone that's worked in corrections, criminal justice, those types of settings, you're going to be exposed to things that are not right. That's a fact. And you need to question, not just be compliant or complicit.

Starting point is 00:10:20 And so I call it whistleblowing here. I don't know if you have an equivalent term there or whether that's just the same across the USA and the UK. But it's it's knowing that actually we've got policies for it. We've got whistleblowing policies, knowing that if you see something that's not right, that's a danger to somebody or, you know, just unethical or not OK, that you actually protected as part of the whistleblowing policy to kind of bring that up. The difficult thing is, is that though you are in theory protected, it doesn't always obviously go down terrifically well in teams and organisation settings. But I think what you're nicely describing is that we mustn't acquiesce to the temperature of the water if the water is boiling hot, if it's toxic we mustn't you know this is why you know students on placement and trainees and assistants and new people entering services can be really enlightening because and when you join a new service for the first time because you are asking questions you are considering you know why do we do this do we

Starting point is 00:11:23 need to do this this doesn't seem quite right this is different than what I've learned. And so we can update practice. But actually, sometimes services are, they don't feel nice to work in. They don't feel like it's respectful to people. It doesn't feel, you know, people being shouted at. And what we know, actually, certainly in prison environments, is that that's just going to antagonize people. That's maybe not the best way we could run our services. And, you know, that's just one example. But standing up for what you see and speaking out as such And I'm in California. And, and I was a whistleblower. And you do have to stand up for what is right, even when no one else is. definitely going to be challenged in these larger corporations and settings where over time they've adapted certain behaviors that they believe are acceptable. And as a psychologist, I feel like an x-ray, you can see everything, right? That you couldn't see before. Or like I wear contacts. So when I put on contacts I could see so much clearer 2020 right I feel like as a psychologist when I go I see things that people

Starting point is 00:12:51 can't see do you feel that way do you feel like I see them clearly and sharply sometimes and I can't not see them they do but I don't always tell them that I can so I don't know if you I don't even have this in me yes yes people often say oh are you are you analyzing me or can you read my mind and and you always say no of course not but it does give you a just a I've got a real you know you need to be able to read people quickly and kind of get a feel for them because of the nature of assessments. You can't possibly spend years with somebody. You need to be able to get the information quickly and make judgments against kind of reasonable doubt and kind of, I'm not amazing at small talk. I like, I like big talk. I don't know about you, but I like to ask the big questions of people when I meet them, even if you're in, even if you're in a queue, you know, a restaurant or something like

Starting point is 00:14:00 that's, that's what I like best oh I love that I love asking questions and a lot of people don't ask enough questions they just assume they make assumptions right which leads to you know not accurate So really, as a forensic psychologist, asking questions is so powerful. And you can ask the most uncomfortable questions, right? And you may be surprised on what they tell you or what you hear, but ask those questions. And as a forensic interviewer, you will be meeting with people who have murdered, raped, you know, all these things. So just you ask the questions

Starting point is 00:14:52 and that's how you can get a lot of really good information. So you're right. Even in all my relationships, my most deepest meaningful relationships or close friends or siblings like have those deep conversations like yeah don't why make why make it superficial let's just get right into it if yeah you know if i go to personal training if i go to have a massage or a facial we are we are having a proper chat like and you know they're like oh you know i feel like you know

Starting point is 00:15:24 i've got more from this than i've given like oh you know I feel like you know I've got more from this than I've given you or you know I feel like this has been really really enlightening for me it's made me think about this in different ways it's almost like a single a single session intervention I don't know if that's a thing in the states but you know you might only see somebody once it's trying to make that time together as purposeful as possible. You know, singular interventions, that's something I would do. And one and done, basically, throughout my career, right for suicidal, homicidal interventions, like seeing people in the emergency room for, for psychiatric holds, all those things. it's we get one chance one opportunity like eminem says like you gotta make the most of that hour together right because that's it we may not

Starting point is 00:16:14 ever see each other again and i have this much time to get get that information absolutely you'll like this story dana so i've got um i've-year-old and a younger one as well. But the other day, he was like, oh, mummy. He doesn't call me mummy anymore, not in public. Mum, there's this really new, cool singer. you probably haven't heard of him and I was like are you kidding me are you kidding me I was there in the 90s I was singing him with my friends and he was like what really and I think it's come about because Fortnite have been playing Eminem on some of their songs so a whole new generation of fans have appeared and it's just it's just things that come around again isn't it like it's really really bizarre that's funny I have a 14 year old and I have a 23 year old and uh it's funny because sometimes they'll say mother like I go, why don't call me mother? They're like, oh, they just sort of think it's funny now. And I'm like, why do you call me that? And they go, I feel like we have just a much more

Starting point is 00:17:31 professional relationship. It's kind of a joke, because growing up, I actually had to call my mom, mother, and my father, father. And I actually had to salute him and say, yes, sir, father, sir. And we had to line up. And it was really strict. Push-ups, sit-ups every morning. There was eight children children and so we were all um i think they were really trying to over organize us yeah and you know with that amount of children some element of organization you know i'm thinking of um sound of music you know lining them up you know each having their own note but is you know is that level of organization and what sounds like control, and we look at mammalian organization systems of hierarchy and dominance and subservience, and we know that goes on. But actually, for me, for a UK psychologist and human, that sounds extreme. Is that extreme in the US? Yeah, I would consider my upbringing,

Starting point is 00:18:47 that's very extreme. And that's not how I would raise my children. It's not like they had parental training. They weren't psychologists, right? To be honest, I felt like I spent a lot of time parenting my parents. So growing up, this will probably make sense of why I decided to become a forensic psychologist. But growing up, my parents, there was a lot of domestic violence. And my mom and dad were both homicidal. And so my mom would have a gun pointed at my dad, or my dad would be strangling my mom out. So I was a child and I observed this and I couldn't understand. And I watched it and I still couldn't understand. It didn't really make any sense why anyone would even be that mad about anything, right? I was really dumbfounded. But I thought if I could understand, then I could help. But I really can't help and intervene on any level if I have no clue what to do. And I remember I was five. I was going to school.

Starting point is 00:20:05 My mom put me in first grade when I was five, which is a little bit young. But I remember my mom standing on the porch with a gun and she was pointed at my dad. My dad was trying to drive us to school. And I remember this scene happening. And I never told anyone my entire school years ever. Not once. Why would I? Again, it goes back to why you should ask difficult questions, right? No one asked me a question, right? Besides, everything good? Are you okay? Right? No one specifically said, have you ever seen your mum point a gun at your dad

Starting point is 00:20:45 right and you're not necessarily going to form those words that's what we that's what we learn isn't it if you if you ask superficial questions you'll get superficial answers you know you almost have to ask exactly the right question at the right time yeah how would i know that wasn't happening everywhere everywhere like how i must have been scary though why it must have felt did it feel scary I mean how used to because because guns are very uncommon in the UK and when they are around they're supposed to be kept in locked cabinets and on all of that jazz and you have licenses for them I know it's very different in the states but I mean it sounds like you've always grown up seeing guns.

Starting point is 00:21:25 And, you know, it wouldn't have been outlandish if you did mention that at home there was a gun, because probably lots of parents had guns at home. Right. We lived in the country, very rural, on 20 acres. We had farm animals, a garden. We're really remote. There was lots of guns and we had target practice as part of my childhood training. We, my dad trained us in weapons and we, we shot guns as a kid. I think my, I think I turned 12 and I got a 30-06, a giant rifle that was bigger than me, which I never had any interest in hunting. But anyways, people have different lived experiences. My childhood was interesting, but I observed these things and I wasn't so much understanding was important for survival. But I decided if either one of them died, like, I would be fine. Psychologically, like, and I played it out

Starting point is 00:22:36 all the time in my head, and I would take care of the kids. But I thought it would not be good. And I would do everything I could to intervene. And then so I did. Eventually, you know, I started learning things to help them not do these things. So this sounds silly, but I started doing my mom's hair and makeup, like giving her one-on-one time, like laying out her clothes. She was depressed or like helping her for a special. She had a lot of trauma. Both my parents were victims of other types of abuse from their childhood. So, and then I just really sought to understand them. Little did I know that's kind of what psychologists do. I didn't, and I would take my siblings,

Starting point is 00:23:27 and we'd lock ourselves in a room and I would read to them and I would just say, you don't, this is not right, but you can choose a different life. We're not choosing violence, like we're gonna. And so I would talk to them about how you can, we're going to grow up and we're not going to do this. And we're never going to do this. And this is wrong. I feel like you're Matilda, born into the Wormwood family. But you're so different to them. And you're a force for good.

Starting point is 00:24:00 And I don't think you quite realize how special you are, actually, that you, you know, this violence and this control and abuse was inflicted emotional, possibly physically at times as well, was inflicted on you. And you were just like, yeah, this isn't this isn't right. This is not for me, you know. And actually everything we learn about trauma and violence and how it perpetuates, you're like, no, this doesn't compute. I'm not going to become violent because that's my formative experiences. And yeah, I just don't think you realize how incredible that is. And I don't know if the Matilda reference translated, I don't know if you've watched that film or if you're familiar with the book, but that's just what you conjure up for me.

Starting point is 00:24:42 Yeah, I think, you know, as we study psychology, we always look at people who grew up in violence, and then that makes sense why they became a killer, or they did these horrible things. But also, let's look at the people who never became violent and grew up and did wonderful, I do great things. Later, my siblings became suicidal or homicidal to my parents, as you can understand, like as a natural response to violence or confusion, like how to make it stop. And so I spent a lot of time intervening and talking them out of that. And then when my siblings sometimes were suicidal, I remember being first confronted with it and thinking, I really don't have the skill set for this. Like, I don't feel suicidal or homicidal. I don't want to hurt anyone. I want to help everyone like love and like feel safe. So then I remember one of my siblings, you know, we went out to breakfast IHOP and she told me like she had an attempt.

Starting point is 00:25:47 And then I thought, I'm really better get, I think I need to get schooled on this. Like, I don't, I'll do the best I can here, but I'm not, I don't, I don't know what to say or do exactly. I was like, if I had the skill set, well, that could be really powerful. It actually could be life saving. And I think I do think my being born into that family changed the dynamics of something horrible that could have occurred. And I spent a lot of time talking to my parents and like trying to rationalize with them and to understand them. And right, so eventually I become a psychologist. And now I understand on a much deeper level, how even complex PTSD can manifest. And while it can look like psychosis or other things that we don't understand, like understanding the correct diagnosis or the right intervention is key. And I used my words and with, you know, holding my hand out or speaking assertively like hundreds of hundreds of times, but where it stopped.

Starting point is 00:27:13 And so I learned a lot through my experience. And then it was, it gave me a skill set to be really comfortable working with violent offenders who were dangerous and threatening and homicidal or suicidal. And I was like, oh, I can get paid to do this. I've been doing it for free for like 25 years. I would like a paycheck, please. For my adolescence yeah I would like I should have been getting paid top dollar so absolutely I do find so it can be a gift to take something you've been through and use it um as you I can say I have experience, right?

Starting point is 00:28:06 You do, you do. And it feels like you almost could have gone on to be a hostage negotiator or forensic psychologist, like could have gone either way. No, totally. that are so fragile, right? Just a moment away, right? From something tragic happening. What to say and do in that moment. Like that's like those moments that can change everything. Absolutely. Can I ask the birth order in your family where did you come in the eight so i know people that that's a whole the psychology of birth order right

Starting point is 00:28:55 uh people can have that's a whole study in itself but i'm in the middle. I just, I did have a sibling that died. Um, so that would make nine. So I'm sorry to hear that. So, so I'm in the middle. So I actually was the baby. I was the youngest for at least, um, six years. Then there was a sibling that died after me. And then there was a gap, I think seven years between the next sibling. So I was the youngest of the top four and the oldest of the next crew. Uh, so I was, I had, I was the youngest and then the middle, but also the oldest. So eventually when the, when the oldest three moved out, I was the oldest of the younger siblings. So I changed their diapers, took them to school, helped them with homework, did all the things.

Starting point is 00:30:00 And I started working the day I turned 13. I was a nanny for four kids plus there was three kids at home so I was like quite busy and uh I it was it just felt like a lot of responsibility yeah and it you know it's reminding me of something you said earlier that you were like you'd rationalized almost that you could cope if your parents died. It's almost like a dissociation forward slash like a defense, like a fracturing that you kind of you're just existing. You know, you're using their resources to to exploit so that you can survive. You know, they're feeding you, they're clothing you.

Starting point is 00:30:43 But actually, you're raising yourself, they're clothing you, but actually you're raising yourself and you're not relying upon anybody. You're doing this yourself. Correct. So food, like clothing, shelter, we're covered. We got food from the government, had these brown bags. They'd give you a big chunk of cheese, and a can of pork. And it was cornmeal, cornmeal, and we would make cornmeal mush,

Starting point is 00:31:15 make it into breakfast cereal. Anyway, so and yeah, I mean, we had basic things. But so then I just thought, well, you could I could work and I could cover all my basic needs. Right. And so, you know. Okay, so this is funny. I think Okay. So like I'm desperate, right? They had this thing called the homespun fair. It's like people made jams or jellies or aprons or, so I made pin cushions as in like people that sew, my mom sewed our clothes. I didn't sew. I wasn't interested. I made pin cushions as a child. I took an old can of tuna, like wash it out. You have a can, you have a circle and I put stuffing in it, like put cloth over it as for a pin cushion. And then I made a circle cardboard under it. So it was like a hat. So I hot glued lace, dolled it up. I sold them like $7. So without knowing it, right? That's, I sold them at the fair. And I remember making my first sell. And I was like, really proud, right? You sold two pin cushions. And how silly you said, like you felt so silly starting out like you and I felt silly, but I was like, I don't know what else to do. I

Starting point is 00:32:53 don't have a lot of resources, right? But I'm industrious enough to be like, I've got cloth, cardboard, an old tuna can, like some old stuffing from an old pillow. But sometimes we just do what we got to do. Absolutely. And you pull that out the bag, as we say. And I think that's probably the difference, really. I probably felt silly, because I actually didn't really at this time need the money. I was still working three days a week in the NHS, which is our health service here. And I started my business because my husband had said,

Starting point is 00:33:33 well, what are you going to do when our youngest starts preschool? Because you don't work, you know, there's two mornings a week when you usually would have him. And I was thinking, I don't know, go for a facial, you know, have a nap, you know, catch up on the chaos of the last three years. know go for a facial you know have a nap you know catch up on the chaos of the last three years um and he was like you could start a business and I was like I suppose I could so that's that's how my business was born but I initially was so scared of spending any money lest I not have any money to um to pay my taxes with um because in the uk if you're employed your taxes are taken off at

Starting point is 00:34:07 source you don't need to do any of that um whereas when you're self-employed you're responsible for reporting that and working out your expenses and all of that jazz um so i just saved other than my costs i needed to run my business like room hire and indemnity and all of that I just saved the rest of it um so I think it's probably that's the difference that's probably what made me feel a bit silly it wasn't life or death for me at that time it was just a bit of self-actualization and something to do with my time and then it was only over over the development of that and then actually during covid that I really began to take myself seriously and then I I then it's almost three years to the day that I've become fully self-employed and it's probably something about that that I now need

Starting point is 00:34:57 the money I'm earning so I'm striving for it more and you know it's it's the little girl who's selling pin cushions you you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk to you to see if you want to buy any of my pin cushions, because actually, I need to pay my mortgage. I love it. I, I, I feel the same way about starting my business, the financial aspect and taxes was the most challenging because that's not my specialty is not finances. And so it's been two years for me doing my own business. And there's a lot I've learned. And I'm continuing to learn things are getting better. To be more

Starting point is 00:35:51 organized, right? Because you're, because I'm also right, the CEO, so I have to do all these other things. I'm working on negotiating contracts with agencies, governmental and county agencies, and I am getting those. And there's a lot of things you have to do to get in that position. And I don't know, I feel like it's been a lot of hats for me. But eventually my goal is to step back just a bit so that I can oversee the business and hire people and interns to do the work and I can oversee it. And right now I'm doing so many reports and a bit more than I would like to be doing. And I'm setting it up. I'm taking my first three interns next month.

Starting point is 00:36:56 And I'll be training them. And they'll start doing some evaluations. And my goal is to truly move over to be more of a CEO and do more consulting work, less report writing. I'm doing some fun things now that I didn't think originally. When you start out to do your own business, you're not really sure how it's going to go, right? You're hoping for the best, but it's an adventure. There's unknowns. But this year, I've had people reach out to me for cold cases, like I'm working some wild cases, crossing over to civil law lawsuits. And I'm, you know, doing my podcast killer psychologist podcast, where we're doing some cold case exploration, and getting some

Starting point is 00:37:59 fascinating stories. And it's fun, it gets in touch with my creative side or storytelling, that Nancy Drew side of me. Okay, good. You know what Nancy Drew is, right? So just that, like your love for my curiosity. I need mystery. I like to investigate. And so there's some television shows that I'll be on this year, or some other ones in the works, where I get to explain things, right, from the perspective of some of these offenders. vendors and that is interesting to me because i want to challenge how people think about things like to get into the minds of some of these people i like to explain that and help people understand it and not everything you know is common knowledge and i also want to prevent people from becoming these right horrific individuals I'm explaining it. I like to explain it to parents and children. And I work with adolescents in juvenile hall who've committed crimes,

Starting point is 00:39:14 including murder. And so I meet with them. And I think I have four right now with reports I need to write. But I can make recommendations right to the court about where, who, where they go, what their treatment is, where they transfer to. And so that's the part I like intervention because I do have people follow up. I have one case right now, a tragic case, a boy that was being abused in a number of ways,

Starting point is 00:39:53 using drugs, having psychosis, got in trouble in a psychotic state, got violent with someone. So I did a mental health diversion evaluation. So I assessed that he needs mental health treatment. Instead of going to potentially prison, he was turning 18. And I've, over the last eight months, I've kept in touch because I've written, I'll be writing my third report to the court with a status update. And he's just doing wonderful. Has a job.

Starting point is 00:40:32 No psychosis. Doing so well. And so he's so grateful. His life has changed. Like his tourney's happy. There's so many great stories to share like that where you get to see it. And you're like, yeah, I have a purpose in life. Good things can happen. And they can happen because of you.

Starting point is 00:41:04 Yeah. Oh, well, you almost moved me to tears there. That's lovely. Like, you know, you're able to achieve those results for people and with people. It's incredible. Well done you. Tell us a little bit more about your podcast. How, How is that all going? And give us a flavor of what that's like. Killer Psychologist podcast is, well, you know, I'm killing it. But so it's not about just killers or killer psychology, but like, let's highlight the killer skill set of these investigators and these people that work on these cases, not the actual killers themselves, but like people that when I, that are interested in getting into this career field,

Starting point is 00:41:57 you, maybe you want to be a private investigator or a law enforcement officer or forensic psychologist, like, listen to us, we have these experts on there, they're sharing how they saw this case, how they worked through it, like, highlight their skill set, what they're doing, donate to their nonprofit, like, we're helping find people, we're digging up bodies, or like, we're bringing justice, let's stop focusing on these criminals, and highlighting them and giving them all this attention. Like, what about the skill set of a forensic psychologist? Don't you think that's interesting? I do. I do. I do. And the people that want to become a forensic psychologist,

Starting point is 00:42:41 just kind of open up your mind. It's not how you see it on TV. Like this is, I'm real. And this is what I do. And so I think it's helpful for a lot of people that maybe want to get in this career field, but they're not, they're confused on how to become a forensic psychologist. So they want to know what I do. You know, is she going to crime scenes? So not really, but I could. But the reality is, who's going to pay you to do that? And so the reality is, after crimes have been committed, then I do their psych eval. And I'm ordered by the court. But I'm also retained by attorneys and individuals in the community. So I think killer psychologist is good for just anybody that's curious about true crime or want to be a forensic psychologist or even any career within forensic psychology, because we have some killer PIs on the show

Starting point is 00:43:39 and my co-host, who's a forensic psychologist. He's also a retired law enforcement officer. He's also an attorney. So there's a lot of like this critical thinking. So I really want people to think through things. So we have an episode that's out. It's like, oh, what day is it? Wednesday. So, and it's about OJ Simpson

Starting point is 00:44:02 and the potential of an accomplice with him. There was a man with him, and I'm sure OJ Simpson. He just died. So is this just exceptionally well-timed, or had you already planned this before? Funny thing is, we already wanted to do the story because a private investigator just done a whole investigator report on that, that homicide. And he was involved with this. There's like a whole backstory.

Starting point is 00:44:38 You can listen to the podcast. But there was another person with him that night. And it also involves the mob. And it gets complicated. The justice system isn't always just just OJ got away with murder, just in case anyone hasn't figured that out. But and he also in civil court was ordered to pay. And as of yesterday, the attorney for OJ's estate said he's going to make sure that family never gets a penny. And this is even after OJ's dead. So the system isn't just he got away with murder in criminal court and he didn't pay any money in civil court.

Starting point is 00:45:16 But the story is interesting when we give you the whole. Well, the guys I'm working with have the whole discovery file, and audio recordings, crime scene evidence, the whole investigation. So we're giving out this information, we want people to think about it. Why? How did this happen? And it's interesting, if anything, right. But I also want to encourage critical thinking. So people may have preconceived theories about this case. But what if you didn't know this? What if I told you there was two murder weapons? What if I mean, more? Now, are you wondering, well, how did that happen? Like, how does this make sense? And I will go back to ethics for anyone wanting to get into this field. Yeah, there's people that can pay the media not to share certain information, law enforcement officers taking bribes, there's blackmail, there's a collusion, there's a lot of different things. Episode of Sopran sopranos isn't it

Starting point is 00:46:25 like it's all going on right and so that so that murder trial is well sadly it taught me that was happening right when i was graduating from high school um it taught me one thing. First of all, I thought, oh, like your ex-husband can murder you and get away with it. And huh, I don't really feel good about that. I hope someone, if someone killed me, someone would avenge my death or justice would prevail even after I was gone. So that also inspired me to be... It's part of being human, really. You have to believe that. Otherwise, how can you live? It feels like a lawless state. Why would any of us follow any of the rules if there's no consequences? That is the very nature of our human society. that's what stops us from going out and committing all

Starting point is 00:47:26 these horrendous crimes is because we believe in the consequences of that and so if there aren't any it really does turn everything on its head well and there aren't any consequences for these people they've gotten away with a lot of things over time and even now. And that's not right. So I feel like I have a good sense of justice and I encounter a lot of horrific cases where people are still killing or committing violent sexual acts. And there's things we can do to stop it. So law enforcement doesn't always have the resources. So you're seeing more private investigators who are basically independent can help, right?

Starting point is 00:48:25 Track down criminals, get confessions, like do a thorough analysis. Sometimes they're just handing it to law enforcement. We're doing right now in a few cases I'm working on. That's what's happening. We want law enforcement to reopen some of these cases. And what my podcast can do is help bring awareness to some of these murders who've people gotten away with murder. It's like, let's reopen this case. Like, here's all the information. And I just had a PI message me last night. It's a cold case in Florida.

Starting point is 00:49:07 This man, young man, murdered his girlfriend and is on the run, but we're zooming in on him, right? And, like, they can get away with it for so many years until, right, somebody starts looking in a little deeper, even after the case is closed or he wasn't even charged. But you start getting this information. So it's important. This is how we don't you want to feel safe in society? Don't you want to know?

Starting point is 00:49:41 How can we live if people just can get away with murder? How can we raise our children if we believe that the world is unsafe and unjust? And it isn't safe, but I'm going to do my part to help people feel safe. So like going back to my childhood, like feeling safe is just a basic need. Like if you can't feel safe, I mean, like you can't really flourish or exist well in the world, you know. So one of the things that I love to do as a forensic psychologist or that I have done, teaching people to communicate their wants and needs assertively without using violence. So violence prevention, and it's something I see that violence is still every day, there's horrific violence happening. And it's Martin Luther King said that violence is the language of the unspoken. And I always that

Starting point is 00:50:39 always resonates with me because they are communicating something. And as forensic psychologists, we decipher what that message is. And so I've met with so many people who tell me what their message was. And I get it. But I understand message received. But how could we have communicated this without, right, these mass killing sprees and things so i think i just feel like i have a sense of responsibility to like educate and provide information or but you don't keep calm way you are so calm you calm me as well i feel like i'm just gonna hang out more with Dana and just slow everything down and it's really really nice um I just yeah I find you very easy to be with and

Starting point is 00:51:33 yeah I just really enjoy really enjoy time with you I feel like we're a little bit less naughty when we're on record than we are when we're off but yeah it's just it's just i've really enjoyed our chat where can people listen to your podcast where's the best place for them to do that or to watch that i don't i don't know if you're a visual podcast as well well you know i'm kind of a visual person so i'm putting the podcast on youtube that way you can see us if you want, my giant talking head, but you can comment and interact with us and like have meaningful conversations, get connected. So Killer Psychologist on YouTube, KillerPsychologistPodcast.com. My company is PsychologyDoctor.com. My company is psychologydoctor.com. That's psychologydr.com.

Starting point is 00:52:30 And so it's a forensic psychology consulting firm. And I work with a lot of courts and I do court appointed psych evals. And I think the podcast was created just to have a creative outlet to write just to be social and also have fun so we're actually just really having fun on the podcast so if because I want people to have fun so right the other PIs the other psychologists we get together and chat we're actually laughing in between before and after, we're calling each other after we're talking. We love each other. It's not, it's just, we need that human connection. And we're people too. We want to have fun. Like we're not it's not all serious and uptight. Like we do this. And we're so smart and clever. We're like robots. No, we're just, we just want to, we're just sharing for educational purposes. And I think that if

Starting point is 00:53:31 people want to tune in and listen and like be a part of that community, we're really receptive and open to people connecting and commenting on YouTube. And I have a love for helping educate the next generation of people that are interested in going to this career field. So a lot of the content's really helpful. What does a forensic psychologist do? Well, I'll tell you what we do. Just tune in. And there's a lot of good information. And lastly, I would say I'll do episodes specifically based on what people want. So careers in forensic psychology, careers in criminal justice, like different career options for people to get information about. Because I really want the future generation to be interested in this see its value instead of going and pursuing only fans or being a stripper or selling your body there's so many different things that people are doing because they want to make

Starting point is 00:54:37 money but it's valuing themselves or like i still believe that education is very is so important and valuable it's it's not just achieving the degree or the certificate or hanging that plaque on your wall it's how it's changed my thinking right made me a better a better person and one that can be of use and of value well I think you sound like an incredibly useful, valuable person. And we obviously share the same passion for upskilling the next generation as well. It's really important to me. I know you are on Instagram as well, aren't you? You are Dr. Dana underscore Anderson. So people should come and follow you there as well. It has been the biggest pleasure speaking with you. I've absolutely loved it. Wishing you well with whatever comes next for you and do stay in touch with me

Starting point is 00:55:32 because I just really like you. Girl crush time. Oh, you're so sweet and kind. And thank you for just being a good human and a good soul and, and, and being, bringing good to the world. Yeah, thank you. Well, ditto. Thank you again.

Starting point is 00:55:52 Honestly, I absolutely loved that. Thank you to our guest, Dr. Dana. Please do go and subscribe and follow, like her content on YouTube. She's Dr. Dana Anderson. And you can also follow her on Instagram and on LinkedIn too. I loved speaking with her. What did you think? Come and let me know. Come and discuss with me in my free Facebook group, The Aspiring Psychologist Community with Dr. Marianne Trent. And that is also the home of our new live series called Marianne's Motivation and Mindset. Come and join the conversation. Let me know who you are. Let me

Starting point is 00:56:33 know what you need from me. And if you love what I do, if you love the podcast, if you love the books, the Clinical Psychologist Collective, the Aspiring Psychologist Collective, I think you'll also really like the Aspiring Psychologist membership. Thank you so much for trusting me to be part of your world and to help you on this fantastic journey of psychology. I would love your thoughts and, you know, I just love having you be part of my world. Thank you so much. Take care and be kind. If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guide. With this podcast at your side, you'll be on your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent. My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories

Starting point is 00:57:46 and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay but trust me you will not put the book down once you start.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - The Killer Psychologist - Childhood Trauma Unveiled with Dr Dana Anderson

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