The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - The Psychology of Fame, Addiction and Recovery with 90s Pop Star Kavana

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

What happens when fame arrives before you know who you are… and then disappears? In this episode of Psychology, Actually, I’m joined by 90s pop star Kavana (Anthony Kavanagh) to explore the psychology of fame, addiction, identity and recovery.We talk openly about the reality behind the spotlight - from chart success and public adoration to addiction, shame, and rebuilding a life when everything changes.Anthony shares his journey into sobriety, what recovery really looks like day-to-day, and how writing his memoir became part of that healing process.If you’ve ever wondered about the emotional cost of success, or what it takes to come back from rock bottom, this is a powerful and honest conversation.Check out Anthony Kavanagh's brilliant book, Pop Scars, a memoir on fame, addiction and the darker side of 90's pop: https://amzn.to/3O2R8fhThis episode is sponsored by WriteUpp the online practice management software I use in my own practice. To grab a 30 day free trial & 30% off for 60 months for up to 6 users use code Marianne30 here: https://writeupp.com/?refid=142336⏱️ Timestamps00:00 Fame vs reality – what we don’t see01:42 Writing a memoir during recovery03:23 Pain vs humour in storytelling05:23 Early life and first job08:13 Getting discovered and becoming Kavana10:38 First experiences of fame13:04 Identity, sexuality and performance15:45 Pressure of maintaining a persona20:54 When things started to shift24:39 Losing momentum and public attention26:14 Alcohol as coping29:01 Hollywood years and escape31:06 Addiction, denial and rock bottom33:41 Loss of control and blackouts37:17 Loose Women interview experience39:01 4 years sober – what recovery looks like41:00 Daily practices and staying well42:42 Being sober in social spaces44:30 Rebuilding identity without alcohol47:39 Life now, creativity and future plansLinks:📲 Connect with Anthony Kavanagh here: https://www.instagram.com/kavana_real/🫶 To join my podcast membership to get early access to episodes and / or exclusive weekly content head to: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support or to the Apple Podcasts App: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-aspiring-psychologist-podcast/id1605628278 or to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwjrIP_jatiqlAivJE2mgQ/join📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk/membership🖥️ Check out my short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk/online-coursesAsk Marianne your most pressing psychology career question and she will send you a FREE bespoke reply! Grab your free psychology success guide here and fill in the most pressing concern box: https://www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk (scroll to the bottom of the page)✍️ Get your FREE Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk/free-resources📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent💬 To join my free Facebook group and discuss your thoughts on this episode and more: https://www.facebook.com/groups/aspiringpsychologistcommunityLike, Comment, Subscribe & get involved:If you enjoy the podcast, please do subscribe and rate and review episodes.Hashtags: #aspiringpsychologist #dclinpsy #psychology #assistantpsychologist #psychologycareers #podcast #psychologypodcast #clinicalpsychologist #mentalhealth #traineeclinicalpsychologist #clinicalpsychology #drmariannetrent #mentalhealthprofessional #gettingqualified #mentalhealthprofessionals #traineepwp #mdt #qualifiedpsychologist #traineepsychologist #aspiringpsychologists #wellbeing

Hi, I'm Max and a worker's assistant psychologist in the Learning Disability Service in West Yorkshire. Like most people working in psychology, I'm slowly but surely working myself up to that seemingly impossible goal of getting onto the clinical doctorate. With that angle in mind, I thought I'd have a look at what's out there and see what books might be helpful for this. I came across Marianne's book, The Clinical Psychologist Collective, and decided that this would be a great buy for me to help me on my journey. I found Marianne's book really informative, most insightful. I especially liked how the story has reassured me that you don't need to be academically perfect to become a psychologist, and that as long as you have good interpersonal

skills, such as compassion and empathy, you will get there. I would highly recommend this book to all aspiring psychologists, nor so those who want to know a bit more about the world of clinical psychology and made me want to work in that field one day. In the late 90s, Kavanaugh was one of the biggest pop stars in the UK. But behind the charts and the spotlight, something very different was happening. Today, we're talking about the psychology of fame, addiction, and what it actually takes to rebuild your life when the spotlight fades. If you find it helpful, please like and subscribe for more.

Welcome along to Psychology Actually. I'm Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm joined here today by Anthony Kavana. Kavana. Hi. Thank you for having me. Finally we meet. We do. Thank you for being here.

So if people are tuning in and they're like, who is Kavana? Could you tell us a little bit about you and your background? Sure. Well, some people might remember me or know me as Kavanaugh the 90s pop teen, idol, singer. Heart throb. Heart throb. Yeah, heartthrob. and you know I had a string of hits in the late 90s

I Can Make You Feel Good was the big one that kind of launched me Smash its award poll winner best male artists may I say as well well done dressed as Superman that day and yeah and so that was my that's my background and then kind of disappeared for quite some time I moved to to the States came back and tried to resurrect my career in bits here and there. And now, well, it's all in the book.

But yeah, I'm kind of, I've written a book myself. And yeah, I'm really pleased with the reaction. So we've got pop scars. Pop scars. It's a little play on words. Yeah. A memoir on fame addiction, the Dark Side of 90s pop by Anthony Kavanaugh, because your actual name is not Kavanaugh, it's Anthony Kavana.

Yes, that name is given to me. And also I just want to say, with the subtitle of the book, it was kind of decided quite quick. And, you know, as a first time author, you're so kind of pleased to have a book deal. It doesn't happen overnight. You know, I mean, this was 10 years of me trying to write this. And then obviously it's about addiction. So they don't really go together trying to write a book when you're in the throes of addiction.

But, you know, it isn't really about the dark side of 90s pop. It's more about, I guess, the dark side of addiction with some 90s pop thrown in. but also survival and silver lining. And it's got a lot of humour as well. I had to write with the humour. Yeah. And we cross paths because I was asked to write a review of your book for the British Psychological Society's magazines.

Yeah, which was so cool when that came in. I was like, yes, I totally want to do this. And I must say as well, Marianne, I have been dining out on one of your quotes, which was, this deserves to be a Netflix series. Yeah. And by the way, I can't give too much away, but let's just say

there's stuff going on in that department. Okay, that's very exciting. But, yeah, I'd messaged you and I said, I'm reading your book and I'm writing it and you'd said, please let me know when it's live. So that's how we cross past. And you very kindly said you'd come on the podcast, so thank you.

But when I was kind of reading the book and seeing some of the reviews, it was, people were saying, well, it's hilarious. And actually, as a qualified psychologist, I read it and I just felt it's not really funny funny like it's it's painful it felt

it felt tricky like I'm a mother as well and you know we're not a million miles away I think you're a few years older than me I just really I'm really worried for you and everything you've been through I found it painful

even some of the things that happened that were more headliney you know some of the things that went wrong I didn't find it hilarious, hilarious. I was just worried for you, Anthony. Right. Well, thank you, Marian. I do appreciate that.

I think, you know, I wanted to write it in a, I could never have written this without the length of sobriety that I've got now, you know, recover and it took me a long time to get sober, you know, many failed attempts, many, you know, many

rock bottoms, which is kind of that term is used quite a lot, rock bottom, you know, but I had quite a few and you're not ready until you're ready. But I've always had humour in my life. There's no doubt about it. I'm from an Irish background family, northern on my mum's side. So you can imagine that mix. You know, we've always seen the kind of the humour and stuff. And this, I was adamant. I didn't want to write a pity memoir. And, you know, I, I don't want to say, I'm funny because you can't call yourself funny. But life is, life can be tragic and comedy as well at the

same time. So it wasn't forced how I wrote it. I didn't even know some things would land to be funner. So I guess different people have interpreted it different ways. So I appreciate that because it was painful at times. It's only by going back can I write it like that, you know, but I didn't want to, it was not a gut to get the violins out kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Let's think a little bit then because I know that you had your first ever job that was working at McDonald's. Yes. And then, were you fired from that?

What happened there? And then you're saying, near a pop star. That's quite the growth, isn't it? Quite the change. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've just come back from Manchester.

And, um, because, you know, my mum's there, um, which you might talk about a bit later. But, um, I just walk past that very at McDonald's. It's on Oxford, Oxford Road. And I thought,

blimey, like, you know, I remember, I remember working there. I just left school. I didn't have many qualifications. I was dreaming of being a pop singer, to be honest. You know, I wanted to get into music. I was musical.

I could play the piano and sing a little bit privately. I was never a big show-off singing. So I just got a job there to make ends meet. But yeah, I did get fired, which is a silver lining. As, you know, we look back and because if I wouldn't, I might now be area manager. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't have used my talents I was given. Yeah, they have what's called.

the clean food bin. So when the food goes lukewarm, it goes into a clean bin, right? It's still wrapped up. There's no dirt in there. And I helped myself to a filly of fish one day. And I got caught. And that was forbidden.

And I got fired. So that's how the book opens with that little. No, it doesn't open with that. It doesn't quite open there. No, there's a cliff hango as it opens later. Yeah.

But yeah, that was, that's more the northern kind of coronation street. style where I'm in the, yeah, I'm in McDonald's and I'm a, I get fired. Yeah. Well, it all worked out initially. Well, were you drinking already at that stage? Or did that come later? No, I wasn't.

I mean, I was drinking, but God, I mean, it's only like every teenage, you know, kid in, in, my friends were, you know, like we'd go, the night that I meet, the manager that that changes my life. We were on a bit of a pub crawl, you know, and that was the usual, you know, it's like you get to an age, I think, I think I was 16, well, I was 16,

and you'd just go for a couple of pints on a Saturday night. You know, you didn't really go to nightclubs. I think Friday nights, I had my friends round from school, and we drink cider in the bedroom, we'd play our tapes, you know, we play our pop music, and smoke a few sigs out the window,

that kind of thing. But no, I mean, in those early days, there was no issue at all with alcohol. The normal limits. You could kind of take it or leave it. And, you know, of course, it's progressive, as I now understand. But, no, there was no issue at all at that point. No. Yeah.

So they were all kind of building you up and kind of waiting for the perfect time to launch you. And then ultimately it happened. And what was that like for you? Well, it wasn't overnight as people could, you know, perceive it to be. I was, like I said, we went out one night, me and my friends, and we decided we were going to get into a nightclub. And we tried to, we couldn't get in. And the third one, we were finally allowed in. And it happened to be a gay nightclub.

I was in the closet. My best friend was kind of in the closet, although he said he was bisexual. It was the air of swayed and, you know, blur. So that was kind of quite cool. And my cousin, who wasn't gay. And we got into this nightclub and in the car. of this nightclub was this manager who was very well known and I went over to him. You know, you don't have any second guessing in when you're that age.

You know, you kind of walk through it. All right, was so ambitious, but I was very naive. Spoke to him, gave me his business card, went in the next, went in on the Monday to his office with a demo tape that I made and I, he signed me on the Friday. So within a week, I was, I'd lost the job at McDonald's, met him, and then I get assigned to the manager. And then it was 18 months, 18 months of learning how to write songs. He bought me a little studio, a tiny little mobile, you know, recording studio and in my bedroom. And I'd write songs every night. And then I'd go to singing lessons, which I write about,

this teacher that was brilliant who I went to see. And, you know, you do a bit of dance moves the career group, you know, he's very slowly. But of course, I wasn't in a boy band. So it was, it was figuring out how, how that would work just on my own, you know. And you just, I got impatient. I was like, when is it going to happen? When is it going to happen? But he knew what he was doing because all the labels, because he was such a, it had so much

success, the labels, so we got a bidding war and then we signed to Virgin Records. And that's when it, so 18 months later is when it really took off. And I'll always remember him saying, You know, enjoy this time of preparation because once it starts, your feet won't touch the ground. And he was right. Yeah. So I was 18 then when it starts. That's a lot of change.

And so we're talking about 1995, 1996 sort of time, are we? Yeah, 94 when I signed, 96 when the first single came out. So, yeah, 18 months, two years. Yeah. What a lot of change. And what is that like then? So I know now, obviously with social media, things are a little bit different. But then, you know, what was it like the first time you got recognized?

Wow. Do you know what? I remember. I was on the train to St. Ives to see my sister and brother-in-law because they lived there. And it wasn't that I was recognised, but they must have had the radio on the train. Or maybe I had my little Walkman, you know, you could get your radio on. And they played my first single on Radio One. That must have been amazing. Yeah, it wasn't, I can be, I think, it was a song called Crazy Chance. And I wanted to tell everyone in the carriage,

I was like, I want the radio, you know, so I remember that very first moment. But the recognised thing, it happens slowly, but surely, I mean, I was doing under 18's nightclubs. I write about that in the book and some of those, you know. I'm surprised I wasn't there, frankly. You may have been, did you have a high ponytail in the shell suit? Probably.

Probably. Probably. Probably. And, you know, that was, uh, so it was gradual. And then suddenly you do start being recognised. You know, I think my first TV appearance was live and kicking at like 8, 8 o'clock in the morning, singing live. And that's when it starts to it. That's when you go in the supermarket or Azda with your mum, like I always used to.

I'd come home and do the normal stuff. And then you see, oh, bloody out. But my mother was always telling people I was going to be famous. You know, she was well known in the area, Rita, my mum. And then, you know, I'd walk up the last. let Moston Lane where I lived. And there'd be a picture of me in the Butchers, which he'd have given like a signed picture or something.

You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was slow. But you just kind of slowly get used to it, you know? Yeah. There was no immediate thing. Yeah. And, you know, I was 14-ish when your big song came out. Right.

I can make you feel good. I think so. And I bought it. I bought the single. I was a big fan. Thank you. But what I didn't know and what I think you weren't allowed to talk about was that you were gay.

Yeah. And that must have been incredibly difficult to be having all this internal stuff going on for you. But having to, I guess, act. Were you encouraged to act straight in the media? No. No. There was no discussion about my sexuality. The manager knew I was gay.

I never said I was gay, but he knew. I never came out to anyone so I was I was hiding it from myself I'd had no you know no real experience I suppose with anyone my age of anything like that of the same sex but because my dream had come true

I sacrificed that this was all I'd ever dreamed of so that can go on the backburner I'll meet someone eventually I don't need to worry about that you know so I just and I'd got this new identity, you see. I'd become this name Kavanaugh. So I was no longer Anthony.

So I took the identity on. I see. It's a little bit like a mask, like a costume you try on. So when you're Kavanaugh, I do these sorts of things and say these sorts of things and go and sing on TV. Actually, when I'm Anthony, I'll be hanging out with my mum and my mates. And that's like a split. Yeah, absolutely. And I was actually quite happy to take on that identity because I was quite a shy kid.

and obviously, you know, there's a bit of bullying at school and stuff like that because I did look, people used to say is that a boy or a girl because I had the long hair. I was a bit, these long eyelashes is and I was a bit chubbier, a bit younger. So once I'd lost the way, I got my hair cut, I changed my name, or they changed my name. And so I became this new identity. So I kind of took cues from other pop singers, male, my age. and they were all a bit cheeky chippy, chippy. I suppose in the boy band, you'd have different identities, wouldn't you?

You'd have the more serious one, you'd have the laddie one, you'd have the more sensitive one. I was definitely the more sensitive one, but because I was on my own, I thought I better just become all of them rolled into one. So I was very much still myself, but I did put on a bit of an act, like the kind of buy next door kind of thing. That's such a lot of pressure there, isn't it? Because you are just one person.

How can we realistically expect you to be five? Yeah, right. But that's what I wanted, you know. And that's, I assumed I was going to be asked to audition for a boy band when I first started. But no, I was told, no, I think you should be on your own. It's like, well, I'll do anything. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

So it went really well. At one stage, I think in the book you said, you'd missed Madonna's call. I mean, that's a sign that things are going quite well, right? Yeah, that was, I had to get that in because, I mean, look. So what happened? Tell us a story. So we, I would, I'd go back to my mum and dads. I was very lucky that I was able to buy them a house quite early on.

I mean, so, you know, that's mad. We lived in a council house on a council estate. My parents had me quite older. They're in the 40s when they had me. and so you know it was a bit it wasn't really the place to I would get bullied and spotted and stuff like that and I was quite anyway so we got this little small house

I would go back there at the weekends if I wasn't working so if I wasn't doing like radio and road shows you weren't being Kavana basically if I wasn't being Kavanaugh I guess yeah I mean it sounds weird talking myself and the other is it third person third person but yeah if I wasn't being the pop singer I'm working or on tour or wherever I would go back to my mum and dad's house because that's where I lived.

I didn't buy myself a little flat. I bought a little family home for all of us because I was still quite young and naive. You know, I didn't really know about buying a male. But even part of that, it sounded like that was kind of the management was suggesting maybe where your mum and dad were living wasn't really what pop stars would be doing. So you moved somewhere different, which was problematic as well.

Yeah, I mean there was two houses. The first one, we did take them out of their area, but still more or less in the same area, but just on a more like a Brookside style, you know, like one of those show homes that you see, like... Bit of a development. Bit of a development, yeah. Funny enough, it's right near where my mum's care home is now.

So I walk past it, it's funny. So I'd go back there. My best friend Andrew would still come and see me, the one who went in the nightclub with Mith, who had known since I was a kid. And we'd just hang out like normal at the weekends. Like we used to on a Sunday. If I was off, it went straight back into being Antonin.

We must have been really grounding, actually. Oh, it was great, yeah. And we'd play our tapes, and we'd do silly things, and my dad would be downstairs watching his bull's eye, and my mum might be at, bingo, it was dead northern. And I remember this one night, the Nokia rang. You know, you used to be a bit heavier in them days, weren't there? Unknown number.

So I'm not answering that. So I'm, who's ringing me on an unknown number? We're a fan. You don't know who it is, you know? I didn't answer it and Andrew was always he started to see my popularity and all these new people in London

that were my friends and he's like oh you're always talking on the phone so I was very adamant not to answer anyway pick it up and it's her voice note yeah from Madonna she was with someone that had met at some party a director he told her about me

I don't know what it said but she left a message and she was basically inviting me to a party in London and I've heard all about you you and but you're not there and uh yeah so long sucker she said at the end and then she put the phone down oh now me and andrew used to play like a prayer non-stop in fact at one point i think i write in the book we had a shrine built to madonna right in my bedroom with with candles because it was all

imagine if you'd answered that but then would you have necessarily believed it had been her well it was definitely her because i found out it was and you couldn't mistake a voice um and i was in manchester she was in london it was 8 o'clock at night it wasn't it wasn't going to work at worked but my God have I like thought and I've been at parties where she's been in the room further like when she was with Guy Richard but I was too nervous to go over

but yeah maybe one day our paths will cross again you never know but that was wild yeah do you answer your unknown numbers now just in case no I still don't answer the phone at all terrifying I'm answering the phone I don't really like the phone I only text or I met WhatsApp

but no I don't but I did give everyone my pinn't code that night. You know you used to get... For your BBMs? Yeah. You know you could get it from a landline. You could go on a landline phone and get your pin code and listen to your voicemail. Oh, that rings a bell. Yeah. So everyone was listening into your voice note. Oh, I gave the pin code that night to everyone, yeah. I didn't record it. I wish I'd have a doctor phone. Yeah, I didn't have one. Before we continue, it's time for a quick behind the therapy room door moment brought to you by write-up. Who are the practice management system I use in my own clinical practice. One thing that often comes up

in trauma and addiction work is how important it is for people to feel safe enough to tell their story at their own pace. In therapy, the details of someone's experiences can emerge slowly over time, sometimes across many sessions. But for that work to happen, people actually need to be able to get to their sessions. And when someone is at a vulnerable stage in their recovery, small things like clear appointment reminders, easy communication and reliable scheduling can make a real difference in helping them stay connected to the work. Write-up is trusted by over 50,000 clinicians. If you'd like to try it yourself, you can access a free trial for up to five users using the link in the description.

And the code Marianne 30. Now, back to the show. So things were going really well. When was the first sign that maybe things were starting to not go quite so well for you? Well, you know, I was... I can only speak about my experience. You know, we've seen the, like the Louis Theroux documentary. and the boy bands and stuff like that.

Obviously, I did a show years ago called The Big Reunion, which was slightly different documentary style, edited in a certain way. I wasn't in the greatest place, you know, when we were filming that. But I remember the third single went top 10. Thank God, that was I Can Make You Feel Good. Second single went top 10. Sorry, fourth single went top 10.

Then it was like number 16, but I was still getting top of the post. You know. Because you were Kavanaugh, right? Yeah, and I was kept getting magazine covers, you know, like from Smashits were just brilliant. There was an editor that took over called Gav, his passed away now, unfortunately. It's such an amazing, amazing guy. And he just kept putting me on the cover.

Well, you sold magazines, I guess. And I bought them. Well, thank you. And just to see, you know, like this magazine that I bought every two weeks for years. Powerful start. Yeah. And then there was the Smash It's tours and then winning the awards. words, stuff like that. So that first round with that first album was great. Then I went over to Asia

and that blew up and that was like nothing I'd ever experienced before because they loved, you know, I guess teen idols from the UK and they loved soul music and my stuff was quite soulful. And anyway, then I left the manager. It just wasn't working out and, you know, I write about it better in the book. And um... But you lost your personal assistant at that time and it sounded like she was a real source of support. Yeah, she was fantastic, Ying. And that was really sad because obviously she was part of his management, you know.

But yeah, you just started to... It was the second album, basically. I went to Italy to record it. Um, they pumped a lot more money in it. As they did in those days, you know, had the Spice Girls producers on this one. So we lived there for three months in this beautiful villa. and wrote the album from scratch every day

had like a chef and an old Italian grandmother would look after us and with driver didn't realize if it was all going on my bill of course because you don't and that's fine it was an amazing experience my family flew out and then the big comeback single

for the second album it went in at number 13 which these days would be seen as brilliant and it was like oh, okay, it's not gone top ten. Now I'm getting like cooler press. I'm getting that covers of attitude. I'm getting, you know, the gay press.

And a little more mature. I'd been to L.A. and worked out with this fitness trainer who becomes my dear friend. And so I'm more adult and growing up and I'm writing my own stuff. But you're also spending loads of money. I'm starting to spend money. I've got advice from accountant that... Maybe it was mismanagement advice.

Yeah, you know. And I must never blame anyone. one for my past because that doesn't serve me or anyone else. But I could have made some better decisions or I took better advice, let's say. Hindsight is 2020 vision as they say. Yeah. And then the single after that, I think, went to number 26. It's like, oh my God, they're pumping money into it.

But they kept shoving me out to Asia, which was doing brilliant. I remember you told this story in the book that you came out of an event. And usually there'd been throngs of girls screaming your name. when you came out and there was nothing. And they asked you when so-and-so was coming out? Yep, yeah. That must have been quite the adjustment as well. Yeah, that was, I mean, you know, some of the bands talk about it,

how they would, you know, we'd all go on nights out sometimes and then go straight to GMTV, not GMTV, SMTV. Still half drunk, basically. Yeah, and undersliped. Other things, you know, you don't know. You know, I was hanging out with people that were older than me because I wasn't in a band, so I'd be hanging out with the, cool fashion people or the

still very lonely but but banging friends or you know meeting people at this cool place called the Met Bar coming back to my hotel I'm drinking they all go home at three o'clock in the morning and I've got to be up at six for you know all self-imposed and yeah so that I remember coming out of

this was the third sing sorry the third sing off the second album and you know I talk about performing it and nobody really knew it and oh god you And then going outside and there's, did always wait, the fans, you know. Mm-hmm. They were kind of like, oh, cap, cap, go over as I always used to. And when a step's coming out.

Right. You know, and I was like, oh, um, oh, right. Oh, okay, well, you go and ask them. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, of course. And so you start. A bit crestfallen, though. Hmm. They went waiting for me.

Yeah. They just wanted me to get the inside of knowledge on steps. Yeah. And it's those little things that start to chip away. And then you've got the rest of the day to yourself, because you're in London. There's nothing in the diary that day. So you're back in your hotel room. Of course, I didn't realise I had addiction issues at this point.

So you got the mini bar in the corner. Got the mini bar. You've got, but you've got the gym in the hotel. So you do a bit of that. But then you know, you've earned a drink there, right? You've heard a drink. And then it started to change effect on me the drink. It started to comfort me and give me, just be able to switch off.

from this kind of... Because it's kind of an anaesthetic, isn't it? It takes the edge off. Yep. And that's why it can very quickly become problematic if you've got more and more problems rising. Yep, absolutely. In the background, my father had cancer,

so there was all that going on. And, you know, the funds were going down. But I was still so young. Still spending like a millionaire, though. I was still spending a lot. And, you know, like, but not necessarily, I wasn't buying sports cars and, you know, going to like stripper clubs and, you know, being wild, I was just careless with it, you know.

But then, you know, if you think it's going to last forever, then you do make different decisions, don't you at that time? Yeah. And like I say, I take full responsibility. It's brought me to where I am, you know, I'm glad to have had these experiences. And that's when it started to change slightly. And but look at it. I'd made enough money to, I felt quite shameful that my career was over at 21. That's how I perceived it. Right. And that's when I moved to LA, like you do.

You know, I move like you do. I mean, I'm saying that. So try and break America. Well, yeah, I mean, I say like you do because it was so random and it was so, it was quite delusional. But yeah, I'd saw all this success in Asia. And it was all me, it was me and a lot of American artists in the charts.

And I just kept thinking, you know what? I'd already met this person, this fitness trainer who became my best pal. And so I went out there. Yeah. And that was a whole different, well, that's a whole few chapters in there, the Hollywood. The Hollywood years. The Hollywood years, which isn't as glamorous as it sounds as we know. But there was some life-changing beautiful moments, but also there was some darkness there

because I was free. I was 21 years old. nobody knew of anything of my past only the good stuff I showed them you get the O-1 visa you pay for it with a lawyer so the O-1 says he's had all this success you show the magazine covers you show the huge hits of the awards the SMASCHs awards

I don't know what Smashes Awards is it could be a you know a Brit to them from the trophy shop down the road or it could be something really esteemable I mean I guess it was in the pop world and that's when I moved out there Yeah, 21.

When was the red jogging bottoms era? Was that back in the UK? That was towards the end. Right. I've just seen them in my drop. Have you still got them? Oh, wow. The Adidas.

If people aren't sure about that, tell us what I mean by the red jogging bottoms. Well, there's three, well, I'd say there's, I actually wrote this and this sounds quite garny. I wrote it in three acts, act one, act two and act three. Act one is the pop years. Act two is me going to Hollywood trying to make it, not making it, coming back with my, you know, tail between my legs, no money, a tan and a transatlantic, weird transatlantic accent. So you looked hot. I looked good because I was still getting away with it, but there was this slow burning addiction that got hold of me, right?

And then at three. We were aware of that at that stage, do you think? I knew, yeah. I mean, I knew there was something about, I was in so. much denial, Marianne. I think you know that we weren't as informed as we are now

about addiction, especially mental health because I think addiction is a mental health issue. There's no doubt about that. I mean and I had a lot of pride and shame and I was still very ambitious and it hadn't turned on me to the point where the red jogging bottoms

and that's say in the Act 3 part of the book where Game Over I think there's a chapter called Game Over where I'm just at rock bottom. And so that's one of the final rock bottoms where I was in full addiction, dangerous, very dangerous addiction. You know, drugs were involved as well.

And, you know, in the rooms of recovery, you hear people's stories where they wear the same clothes for, you know, shower. And a friend of mine who was in recovery used to say, I knew when you was in trouble or when you was relapsing or when you was in the dark, you weren't getting better because you'd have the red jogging bottoms on really i hadn't washed or changed for a week or two

you know that's that was towards the end yeah and was anyone looking out for you at that time or were you kind of deaf to their to their voices either even if they were um people tried but as we know it's um addiction once you isolated on your own um and uh what are you going to do do, you know, you need your fix, you need your, for me it was alcohol and it started with alcohol and it finished with alcohol. I would never have touched drugs without alcohol. Alcohol did for me something very different than it does the normal drinker, which is something that I've finally,

but not finally, but something that I understood once I got into recovery and got a bit of time behind me. There's a whole thing about it being an allergy and stuff like that and the phenomenon of craving, stuff like that. For me, it just, it lit up my brain in a way. It didn't, it gave me energy. So it gave me confidence, it gave me energy. It didn't really calm me down. But also, I had this once.

So it lit you up, really? It lit me up. And the craving, what I couldn't get my head round is, I could be having a really good day, right? and the thought of a drink would not enter my head and I might have just got sober again and life is starting to get good again this is why I kept relapsing

and it's important for anyone listening to who might understand might relate to this and out of nowhere I would get this blind spot that would say have a drink now I know what's happened in the past as like a little voice in your head yeah well yeah I guess you want to call it that

against all evidence that's happened in the past because of my drinking that goes out the window. It's like I'm in a trance, or I was in a trance. And so it wasn't a craving for a drink. It was just a blinds. It would just go have a drink.

And I had no defence. So I'd pick up the first drink, thinking I'll just have one. And that's when the craving began. Right. Once it goes in my system. One's never enough, right? Once it goes in the system, exactly.

The craving began. And then it's some days it might just be... Like you've lit the blue touch paper, as they say. Yeah. And, you know, some days it would just be. a bottle. Some days it might end up being a three day, a bend up where I just can't stop. But you can be sure it would always end in some kind of, you know, episode of some, yeah, something not good. Yeah. And sort of during this journey, you say in the book that you're on

loose women. Yes. And I have to confess that I did put the book down at that stage and I googled that. Yeah. I mean, I think some people have said to say that. That's a hard watch actually. I was, I'd come back from America. And I remember going into a, I'd had all these new songs that I'd written with some great writers, very different sound. And I was really proud of them, you know,

because I did do some good stuff out there. Yeah. It wasn't all, you know, chaos. And I went for some label meetings and said them back and, you know. It felt really energizing. Yeah, I mean, you know. There's a lot of drive going on. Yeah.

I was like, you know, I'm back and, you know, I'd love to, and they said, well, you kind of need to do a reality TV show. Right. I've been away for 10 years. You know, you couldn't go in the, when I was 21 and left after the career finished the first time, you could, there was no jungle to go in. There was no big brother house. There was no. There was no, Instagram either to maintain your presence. No, you could.

And so I said, oh, right. And I was, I was kind of running out of money fast. I couldn't even pay my parents' mortgage. Right. What do I do? So I found this, I was asking people, there's only reality shows about asking agents, well, there's this one called Greece is the word. What's that?

And you look a bit Danny Zuccoe, right? Somebody said that at the time. Maybe more like John DeVolter now these days. But nothing wrong with that. We love John. So I was like, oh right, okay, I'll do that. So I lined up for this talent show. And the next thing you know, I'm on it every week with all these theatre kids.

And I'm auditioning for the part of Danny Zucco. national television every week and I kept getting put through every week. Long story short, I didn't win. The other guy won who deserved it much more. He's from stage school who was 19 years old. I was like 32 trying to get my career going. But the public did keep voting me and I was very grateful for that. You captured their hearts again. Yeah. And I got to sing on doing what I love again, you know. It was kind of like an X Factor style show really because we just sang every week. And my addiction.

she was in the background. Right. You know, I was still drinking and, you know, even on some of those, some of those shows, you know, some of those live shows, I'd have to have a couple of drinks in the toilet before I went on. Nobody knew. Mm-hmm. And I got put on loose women to talk about a record that was coming out off the back of that

and that my old label put out like a greatest hits or whatever you may call it. And I went out the night before. As we do, I think we call it self-sabotage. Just go out for one. Right. Well, this one turned into 100 and the rest, other stuff. And I just woke up in these couple of strangers' house through a very, very nice, actually.

And they said, oh, you're okay. I'd got the car to pit me up there for IDV. And I just was in hell, like the worst hangover. At that point, I discovered hair of the dog. and that was when that was the real change in my drinking once the hair of the dog

was introduced oh boy I could get away well I thought I got this cure oh my god I can function never have to have a hangover again

you know this is amazing until it wasn't yeah and I remember just I wasn't just hung over where you need a couple of paracetamol I was like

I was very unwell I had the DTs which I'd never had before which I now understand is your nervous system is shot your body's craving more because of the way my system is and I remember your body was dependent I was alcoholic you know

and I remember the driving there thinking how can I do this live interview like I'm literally shaking and I stopped off I said to the driver you need to stop I remember running into an S or whatever I said it was in the book and the only thing that I had something quick you know what's not going to smell vodka of course it smells me just alcoholic

pretend that it doesn't. And I just out of fear, glugged the whole thing. And next thing, you know, I'm on live television. And, yeah, it was, it was, it could have been ten times. It could have been a lot worse, but by the skin of my teeth, I got through it. But yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't. I think it was the artful interviewing style of the ladies on the panel that really helped move that along.

Well, thank God, yeah. I mean, I was a loose cannon in that studio. I mean, they, apparently at the time, my agent called me the next day. about it. I mean, they ended up in some bed sitting Paddington and woke up up thinking how they ended up back here. Like, what happened yesterday? I didn't remember. I started getting blackouts. Right. I thought blackouts

meant you fell to the floor and blacked out. Not that you functioned. But had no memory of it. And had no memory. Like your memory shut down. Yeah. And mine just happened to be on national television. You know. And he said, you know, you banned from a... You can never go on a show again. So I got a band. I mean, they lifted it a few years later when I went to my first rehab,

they said, oh, will you come on and talk about it? Okay. But I had nothing to talk about, you know. Right. I didn't want to just go on. So I think I saw on your Instagram yesterday that you're now four years clean? Four years, sober clean, yeah.

Which has gone by crazy fast the last couple of years. And I was one of those guys that couldn't get four hours, four minutes sometimes, you know. So you all. It's a real celebration, lots to be proud of. Yeah, and thank you. And it's not just about putting that down the source of medicine, because for me it was towards the end.

It's about living without it actually. And what tools do we put in place to get by? And so I'm just really grateful that, you know, like the last, I mean, just right, being able to write a book. I know that I was in no way intoxicated. It just literally came to me. It's just you, right? It's just me.

And I wasn't trying to impress. I didn't know who would read it. You know, I just, I really enjoyed. People say, oh, is it hard to write? It actually wasn't. There was moments where I wrote about my sister who passed away. But I never dealt with any of that stuff at the time. Buried it deep, right?

I buried it deep, you know, and I was drinking on it. And great excuse to drink. My sister's died. My father's died. You know, my mum's got Alzheimer's. But I almost have processed it now through writing. So it's been a great experience, actually. And the most important part about it to me is the feedback that I get from readers who thought it might be one thing, but I've seen that it's something else.

You can see that it's been, how it's been. And then like now how it's going and how actually that's possible. Yeah. Even for someone that is having to drink every day, every hour. Yeah. Absolutely. You know. And I am in no way. an oracle about recoverer. My recovery is not perfect. Okay. I haven't touched any drugs or

drink, but I still make mistakes. You all do. It's the thing about finding your adaptive coping strategies. Absolutely. But I know, like this morning, you know, about we swapped a couple of texts. I hadn't actually looked at them until I was about to leave because I have to do certain things every morning to keep you well. To keep my head in the right place. So for me, I pray to a God that I don't understand or that isn't a holy God. I ask for, you know, let me be useful today. Let me, you know, guide me if you want, you know, good, oddly direction, God, if that's what you want to call it. Because my thinking and my willpower got me nowhere.

It got me into some bad places. You're kind of drafting in another. Yeah, I just say you drive today. Like, my driving is not very good as we know. so can you drive and I have a really cool relationship with call it a higher power if you want It's about like accountability maybe as well Yeah yeah absolutely

But it's not always easy so I don't drink I haven't drunk now for about 18 months Wow okay I'd never really problematic Yeah just I thought I don't think I need this And I produced today Stu and I went to an event Was it late last year? Other people don't necessarily like you're not drinking Do they like people are bringing

Bringing drinks around on trays at events And trying to talk top me up with, you know, rosé or seco or whatever. And it's like, I don't drink. And I have something, I was trying to ask, can I have something non-alcoholic? And almost shunning me and like, oh, I don't know. You'll have to go to the bar. Yeah.

And it's that. With the elder flower, cardio, or sort of. I wouldn't have minded that. Yeah. Yeah. They were happy to walk around just topping you up. It isn't easy to be sober. We bought some kombucha here today.

Yeah. I love kombucha, actually. Yeah. It's not easy always to be the person that's not drinking. And especially if people around you have been problematic drinkers or are, they will want you to drink with them, won't they? Yeah. I mean, I lost a lot of friends once I properly got sober.

But I also will say, and that's nothing to do with them or me. It's just the way things are. You stop getting invited to things. And that's probably fair enough, because it was probably a nightmare towards some points in my drinking. but I remember that first year in relating to what you said Marion that first year of my proper sobriety where I thought I've got

you know rehab's a part of my story I've been twice but the last one I went to where I nearly died before I went in I came out and I was like this is it like I've got to take this seriously now so I went I started going to meetings you know there's all different types of meetings they call it 12 step recovery

you know there's meetings out there A-A-A-N-A whatever you want to call it So I would do that, but I would, I didn't go anywhere. I didn't go anywhere. I lived like a hermit actually. Not in a depressing way, but I, I would get invited to things or even family events and I'd have to put boundaries and say, do you know what? You can't trust yourself at that stage. Yeah, and I just can't be around it for a while. Maybe not because I was going to drink, but because how uncomfortable I felt. All my receptors were going, oh yeah, this reminds me of that. are even when I go back to Manchester at this point,

I'd go and see my mum and I'd pass all the pubs. I used to sometimes sitting on my own towards the end when I was depressed. Even in London, they're everywhere. Familiar strangers but also triggers. Yeah, yeah. So I really just had to, you know, and I say to people, reinvent yourself. Yeah, yeah.

Who is Anthony when he doesn't drink? Absolutely. Where does he go? What are his interest? Yeah. What does activate you? What do you look forward to? What do you like?

Yeah, yeah. And I had no idea because it was all squashing. Because you'd always done it with alcohol as well. So, yeah. I mean, the last few years, I couldn't even sometimes pick up the phone without having a drink. Right. I couldn't. I mean, yes, there was a lot of trauma involved.

There was deaths. There was all stuff going on in my family. There's a sign you needed support as well, though. Yeah, but I think when you find such a quick version of support in alcohol, which was around the corner. It worked every time, right? Oh, my God. It promised me so much for a while, you know, and it did. It soothed me instantly.

But it also eventually took everything away. Yeah. But, yeah, slow and steady, I was told. Slow and steady, and just for today, like, I'm just not going to have a drink today. Okay. Sometimes I'd be holding on by the skin, but I just thought I just can't. But I would go to meetings, you see. And I'm looking in London.

Of that community. Yeah, and by the way, like, I always thought AA meetings would be people sat around, moaning, complaining, you know, whatever. I've never been in a place where there's so much laughter. People don't really talk so much about the drinking. They talk about their life in general. I mean, there was a lady in a meeting the other day talking about a washing machine breaking down. But you were invested in that story, right?

Because you're part of something. I think that's the thing with A.A.M. Recovery groups is that because drinking can be very social, we can also be very antisocial, can it? But you come together quite often. So then when you're coming out the other side, replicating or creating a different community that you feel part of can be really part of the solution.

Absolutely. And, you know, we get access, you get access to the 12 steps, which sounds very cultish and very, but it's not. It's just a very simple design for living. And the only way to understand it is by trying, it is by going, I suppose. And I'm not perfect at it. It's just kind of, you know, you kind of, each one's in order for a reason from 1 to 12. And by the time you get to 12, that's more about. Your spiritual side, so serving, helping others. I know outside stuff is going to fix me. I realise that now. Listen, it was great to get number one pop bestsello and this came, you know, unbelievable. Great to get, oh my God, the dopamine in my brain was flooded. After nothing for years and suddenly people are giving me good reviews. Well, I loved it.

Thank you so much. But, you know, I have to be careful of that stuff because I won't get cocky, but I'll miss it when it goes. But it's not Kavanaugh that I liked. It's Anthony. Yes. Thank you. But that is, that is,

Anthony wrote this. Yeah, you know. But Anthony used to write his songs as well. Yeah. I got a dog to write myself. But this is the true version of me, you know,

but I had to go through all that to be able to write it, you know, and there's a reason it took so long for it to work. Doors kept closing it. We're not interested. And then suddenly when the time was right, they were, you know, yeah. So tell us about you now.

What have you got coming up? What's, what's in your life now? Right. Well, just for today, I'm here doing this lovely podcast with you in Stu. And I'm just trying to enjoy it. You know, I'm really trying to, I have to put my recovery first because if I don't, then before I know it, just my head goes. And what I mean by that is radio, it's a bad radio. It tells me things that aren't true. You know, it's based in fear a lot of the time. You know, I have a great relationship with my family, what's left of my family, mainly my aunties and my, you know,

my mom and my cousins and stuff. Obviously my mum is Alzheimer's. She's 89. She's in a care home. And she's featured a lot in the book. She is. Yeah. And I wanted to write that. In fact, the book finishes with me and her, doesn't it, the scene in the care home? And, you know, I get to be present. I'm not always comfortably present, but I get to be present. And I know I understand now that feelings are not going to kill me. I know that I have, and anyone listening has survived 100% of everything they've ever worried about. And I go to meetings, my creativity is back. I'm going back out to Asia, which is crazy because I've not been there for 25 years. Interestingly, as Kavanaugh, if you like, because I was so ashamed of that version of me for so long.

that I'm now realised that I can still be that just in a different way because people, some people do still listen to me and like that version. So I'm kind of seeing it. I still love that song. I still have a hero. I'm still dancing and singing. Thank you.

It's like an energizer. It's you and bop, I would say. Right. I'm happy. I'm happy with those two. I remember that at the same time he came out. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I try not to talk about.

too many things that I've got that I'm working on because I did that in the past and then I would kind of it wouldn't work the way I thought it was going to yeah I just kind of take you are where you are day I am and I but but I am I my ambition is back but in a healthy way and I I hate to say this but it's the only way I can describe it I feel somewhat validated again as as a as a human as a as an artist um as a as a as a writer as an author i mean you know they say when once you uh once you get sober or recovery or whatever you want to call it um you'll you'll get a life that you never imagined and that doesn't necessarily mean the life that you dreamed of but i could never imagine a being sober and i could never imagine being an author and that's kind of where i'm at

today but yeah I definitely want to do more and there's more stuff kind of possible adaptations from the book and amazing yeah so well I'm so pleased and I you know I could never have imagined that Kavanaugh Anthony would be so lovely and that when I messaged him he would reply absolutely we'd have such a great interview thank you yeah and review of the book here yeah so thank you for being lovely um I'm wishing you best with everything that comes next so at the moment as we record the hardback book is out but the paperback is coming out in the summer is that right yeah the paperback's out in the summer it'll be slightly differently packaged and a few little surprises and the audio is the thing that's really blown up which i read myself which i you know

god bless your ears because it's eight hours of me talking but um the audio is is is is available too and the hardback um amazon are you know some some book shops perfect so where can people follow you on Instagram. So my Instagram is K-A-V-A-N-A-U-N-A-R-E-A-L, Kavanaugh-U-A-L. Kavanaugh-U-A-L. Perfect. Thank you so much. Message me. I'm always, I always kind of look at my DMs and message me. You do. You're very kind. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for having me. It's been brilliant. Hello, my name is Veronica Kassova. I live in Edinburgh and I just graduated with a master's in

psychology of mental health. Marion recommended me the clinical psychologist collective when I was networking on LinkedIn and I not say I love it. It is one of a kind. It's like a window into the lives of people on the path of becoming a psychologist. The stories are unique, honest and filled with a kind of intangible wisdom only personal storytelling can uncover. A common thread in the stories I valued most was to be compassionate, not of only with others, but with myself too. Also, not fixating on becoming a psychologist,

but enjoying life, growth and the final results will come as a by-product. Marian, thank you for taking the time to collate all the stories. The book is a true gem, and I think every aspiring psychologist should have a copy on their shelf. Thank you.