The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - The psychology of professional football with Daniel jinadu

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

Starting point is 00:00:32 the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up in today's episode, we are breaking barriers with Daniel Gennardu, a professional footballer with a first class psychology degree. We are tackling the turf

Starting point is 00:01:12 and the mind as we look at the surprising similarities between a career in football and one in professional psychology. Whether you are in the world of psychology, you're a football fan or both, I think you'll find this a really useful listen. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent, a qualified clinical psychologist. So I started my psychology journey with psychology A-levels and a psychology degree. But of course, our interest before, during and after our psychology studies can take us in very different directions. I love hearing about where people are taking or

Starting point is 00:01:59 planning on taking their psychology degrees and how they use their psychological underpinnings and theories to make sense of the world that they find themselves in. I'm so excited to introduce you to our guest today who is himself a podcast host but I have to confess I was a terrible podcast host in today's episode because I forgot to ask him for all his details about where you can connect and where you can listen to his podcast. So I said that I would share the social links before and after our chat. Daniel Gennardou can be found on YouTube, which is where his podcast is, and the podcast Beyond Football is also available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. You can also follow Daniel on Instagram, on LinkedIn and TikTok,

Starting point is 00:02:44 where he is Daniel Gennadu. In case you're listening rather than watching, I'll spell that for you. Daniel is D-A-N-I-E-L. Gennadu is J-I-N-A-D-U. So I can only apologise to Daniel. I was a little bit distracted with my little boy who had very sore skin and had been sent home from school. So I can only only apologize but I will

Starting point is 00:03:05 look forward to catching up with you on the other side of this episode where I will share those links with you again. I hope you find this really useful. I just want to welcome Daniel to the podcast today. Hi Daniel. Hello, hello Dr Marianne. Thank you very much for having me oh thank you for saying yes so we first connected on LinkedIn and I was really interested in chatting to you because not only are you a first class psychology graduate well done to you on that but you are a professional football player and you really really care about the welfare of players past and present and you're really mindful about what it does to a person to kind of come out the end of a system like football and I think that's really commendable no thank you very much I feel like it's it's all down to to obviously being a player and seeing

Starting point is 00:03:58 the effects that not having an identity beyond football can have on your career and your your future life chances so that's why I'm so passionate about it yeah yeah it's really important and you know I think until voices are amplified it doesn't stop people it doesn't make people think it doesn't make people think about the person as well as the player and you know I know that there's certain parallels here between aspiring psychologists who want to get onto professional qualifications and obviously professional footballers, because there's only so many places at the elite level in both of these careers. And it's really, really hard. And sometimes it's just subtle nuances in it. It's like just, it's just not quite right, or it's just not quite the right time.

Starting point is 00:04:46 And there's not necessarily anything that's wrong with you as a person or a player. It's really, really tricky, isn't it? Yeah, it's very, it's very tricky. I feel like, yeah, there's a lot of similarities there. And it's the dark world that we live in, ultimately. There's a lot of similarities there and it's it's the dark world that we live in ultimately there's a lot of competition there's a lot of um survival of the fittest so you have to present yourself in the in the best way making sure that you're gaining gaining the edge between yourself and the other

Starting point is 00:05:20 other players or the other side aspiring sports psychologists or places because yeah even before I started studying psychology I was told of how competitive it is to get onto master's courses to get onto your stage two of your qualified training etc but for me as a footballer that competitive side of it it motivates me because I'm quite competitive so I like coming out on top and winning when the odds are stacked against me so I feel like it's just about the way you reframe it and use it as fuel. Absolutely and I think in both of the careers you are shoulder to shoulder with your competition but they're also your friends and your colleagues. And there's also so much to be gained by kind of building one another up as well as elbowing them out the way.

Starting point is 00:06:11 It's a really tricky playing field to navigate, isn't it? Yeah, I feel like you perfectly described the situation of a goalkeeper or the goalkeeper dynamic in terms of only one goalkeeper can play and get that spot, that spotlight. But oftentimes teams in the Premier League, they have two or three goalkeepers. So the goalkeepers who are not playing, they talk about the goalkeeper union.

Starting point is 00:06:40 The goalkeeper union is quite a tight-knit culture and environment between goalkeepers because they know it is quite a tight-knit culture and environment between goalkeepers because they know it's quite a lonely position but goalkeepers are able to empathize with other goalkeepers about the demands of the game the mental side of the game how tough it is so we're able to be close friends with with our competitor our fellow goalkeeper but at the same time we want that spot so it's an interesting dynamic to have in terms of competition and healthy sportsmanship. It really is and I think there's some I'm a mummy of a goalkeeper as well he's much younger than you he's at much end much earlier stage of his

Starting point is 00:07:19 career he's seven but even this morning on the walk to school he was talking about his game this weekend and he was saying there's only so much i can do mum because it's about the defense if if they're not helping me or if they don't listen to me when i say keepers ball like it's really hard and i'm i don't know what to say to him what what would you say to him yeah for me as a young goalkeeper, I struggled. I struggled. And he's asking the right questions. So he's very intelligent because ultimately there's not much you can do.

Starting point is 00:07:55 You can only control what you can control. But as a young goalkeeper, I never understood that because ultimately all young goalkeepers, we all want to keep a clean sheet we want to save everything we want to do our job for the team but ultimately that's not always always possible so that obviously had a big impact on me in terms of my ability to deal with those those situations and influenced me even going and studying psychology and going down that pathway and etc yeah yeah and I know

Starting point is 00:08:27 that when we first connected on LinkedIn you were without a team at that point and so really really tricky stuff how how did you navigate all of that how did you keep your focus up how did you go about finding a team and kind of keeping your fitness up to such a level that you could kind of drop back into a team it must have been really challenging yes it's a challenging experience for for anyone in terms of um release handling release and deselection and ultimately yeah how did I keep the faith? Ultimately, number one thing is I'm a believer, I'm a Christian, so I have a firm foundation in terms of my Christian belief and having hope.

Starting point is 00:09:12 We talk about faith being the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So that really helped me stay grounded and motivated to not take rejection as the final final message but as well I have a good a good support network around me good family that have helped me to to see who I truly am and what I can become so that helped me keep on pushing on even when times get tough and you're just thinking what's going to happen a lot lot of uncertainty, a lot of doubt. But also as well, I think that motivated me as well,

Starting point is 00:09:52 was that genuine belief from deep inside me that I have what it takes to play at the highest level because I put in the work and I feel like I have the skill and the talent. So those are the few different things that helped me through those periods. Yeah, really important stuff. And actually, again, as a parallel to psychology, you know, it's that persistence. It's that perseverance, isn't it? So you could at that point have hung your boots up and been like, this isn't for me anymore. But there's one sure thing that stops your career trajectory or stops you developing in the way that you wanted and that that is saying I'm not doing

Starting point is 00:10:30 it anymore and you know the same with psychology you know doctorate courses can be so tricky to get on that people like I'm not doing this anymore and so of course if you don't go for a second or a third or a fourth attempt that is going to be the end of your professional psychology career certainly at that point um so that is again an evidence of perseverance you know creating the results because if you had tried a fourth or a fifth time that might have led to results but it is really tricky to to not burn out and it's really interesting to hear about your faith and of course your family being so important to you in that regard um how do you keep friendships because I'm sure they're such a key part of of you but what we know about kind of friendships is that they can be friends for a reason friends for a season and friends for lifetime and the guys

Starting point is 00:11:17 that you're playing with and probably even you know everybody in the team can feel like such a key part of you but when you leave the team does that translate into real life and are you able to keep some people to kind of take you forward and to support you in the next stages of your career yeah definitely before i answer that question i wanted to just build on what you said about um persistence needed obviously psych sports sacks and how it's parallel to footballers and their persistence i feel like it's it's so importants and how it's parallel to footballers and their persistence. I feel like it's so important. I feel like it's the difference

Starting point is 00:11:50 between being successful and not being successful. Your ability to handle your bounce back ability. They talk about failing big and multiple times before you can get it right and it clicks.

Starting point is 00:12:06 So if you don't have the grit or the resilience to, to film multiple times and be rejected multiple, multiple times, then I don't feel like you have what it takes to be successful. It's a, I feel like it's an, it's an important skill to have. And then your question about um friendships and the football

Starting point is 00:12:28 system yeah I feel like it's depending on it's similar to a workplace a workplace environment where you get on with some of your colleagues some better better than others so that's how it's been at different clubs that I've been at there There's been people I've created close bonds with that the friendship lasts, you know, beyond you playing for that club or beyond the different environments that you're in. But there's other friendships that might not have gone to that deeper level.

Starting point is 00:12:59 But I feel like it's so important because, you know, football, they say football especially, it's a small world, you know, football, they say football especially is a small world, you know. Everyone knows everyone to an extent. So, you know, having those close connections and being able to relate when you go to another club to say something, oh, you know Will. And then you're able to have similar,

Starting point is 00:13:18 that's that initial bonding connection that you're able to have with other people. So you're able to build rapport with other people at other places that you're able to have with other people so you're able to build rapport with other other people at other places that you go to great thank you and thank you for for bringing me back to the one that i just kind of moved on from it's really really important to kind of let you have your say as well so thank you for doing that with me um yeah like i watched ted lasso have you watched ted lasso i've seen i've seen this trailer i haven't actually watched so good it's so good so i would never have thought it would be my cup of tea um and i ended up i bought a an apple watch a while ago and they gave me three months free apple tv so that's what gave me that but i watched

Starting point is 00:14:03 it and it's honestly one of the best shows I've ever watched there was a slightly dodgy patch in series two which was a bit weird um but series one two and three I just loved them like such great characters and if anyone's like what is Ted Lasso it is um the story of a premiership manager and the team and the people that are kind of within that and it's it's great so i would recommend i mean for you it might not feel like like do i watch shows about psychology yes i probably would but um you know is there an interest in that are you like also footballed out that you're like no that's gonna wait for another day in terms of watching yeah and you know watching the the netflix beckham you know documentary i watch it i watch it there's there's so many out there's so many out that it's

Starting point is 00:14:57 difficult to keep up that's the thing so i've watched i've watched the david beckham documentary i watched the all of the all or nothings on Amazon Prime. Is that the Man City one? My kids are watching the Man City one at the moment. There's a Man City one. There's an Arsenal one. And there's

Starting point is 00:15:16 another one. My kids have been rooting for a Spurs one. They are Spurs fans and my husband. Dirty words. I for a Spurs one. They are Spurs fans and my husband. I don't know. Dirty words. I don't think that will come about. The stadium was amazing, though.

Starting point is 00:15:33 I did visit there in the summer for my eldest boy's birthday. And the Spurs stadium is just incredible. Like, really, really amazing place. So tell me about the team that you play for at the moment. You're coming to the end of the season and you're just telling me that you just won at the weekend. So congratulations to you and the team on that win. Thank you very much.

Starting point is 00:15:57 Yeah, what would you like to know about the team? What's it like? What's it like being part of the team? What's it, you know, are they welcoming and supportive? I guess, what's it like when you're having to answer to the fans? You know, especially as a goalkeeper,

Starting point is 00:16:14 it must be very difficult. People can be really mouthy, can't they? And, you know, probably even within your team and probably getting jibed by the other players, like, how do you manage all of that? Yeah, it's through experience, through developing different coping mechanisms over the years.

Starting point is 00:16:37 But, yeah, the team are amazing. I feel like we've got a good dynamic of people in and around the changing room. We've got a good dynamic of people in and around the changing room. We've got great banter. So we enjoy our work. Training is not – there's never a dull day. There's never a dull day out on the pitch or in the changing room or when we go out together.

Starting point is 00:16:58 So it's really good. The fans, yeah. The Maidenhead fans are amazing in terms of the support and everything but opposition fans can be, can be a pin in the arse. Especially as a goalkeeper,

Starting point is 00:17:12 we get all the stick saying, you know, we get abuse not only to us, to our family members sometimes, to different things,

Starting point is 00:17:22 yeah, but it's part of the game, it's part of the job. You almost have to harden yourself to that a little bit and just Yeah, it's part of the game. It's part of the job. You almost have to harden yourself to that a little bit and just expect that it's not. People aren't always going to like you and that's just how it is

Starting point is 00:17:33 and it's not personal. It's just, it is what it is. Exactly that. Exactly that. Yeah. And has racism, I know racism is trying to stamp it out in football,

Starting point is 00:17:45 but I'm sure that's not universal. Has that cropped up for you? Yeah, no, thankfully I haven't actually experienced direct racism in terms of when I've been playing or anything, but there is different forms in terms of indirectly and the way players have been treated and everything. But thankfully I haven't had direct experiences with that good I'm pleased to hear that I think there's something around

Starting point is 00:18:11 the younger generations generally being more inclusive more aware more thoughtful more mindful um my boys um well we're in Coventry which is a really kind of multicultural um city um and they're just watching their friendships with people of all races and all backgrounds is really really lovely and I've got um a nephew who's very similar in age to you and just the way that he talks um he's half Italian himself but the way he talks about his friends and their race and their background, and the way that they just would not stand for any discrimination, you know, in their friends, and that they would speak up to that, I think and hope that is the change in the younger generations, that people genuinely are like, you know know you're no different to me we may

Starting point is 00:19:05 have different skin color we may have different faith but actually you know these are my friends and they're still really important to me I'm not going to let you say that to him or to them um that for me as a woman who's 42 um that feels like that's been a cultural shift hopefully in the UK which is gonna go from strength to strength I mean I can't change your age I can't show you what it was like for me when I was growing up and what it was like for my friends growing up but yeah I don't have you seen that change happen at all from your perspective over the last few years uh yeah yeah definitely I feel like um people are becoming wiser in terms of their understanding of people and how to treat people and interact with people who are not like you. For me, I can never wrap

Starting point is 00:19:54 my head around racism or discriminating against someone because they're different or they look different to you. It just doesn't make sense. I think it's a level of stupidity, in my opinion. But yeah, I feel like there's definitely been a change or a positive step. Good, good. Long may it continue to thrive and develop. Thinking about you and psychology then, and you and psychology and goalkeeping you know we're

Starting point is 00:20:27 thinking about the negative attribution bias which you might well recall you know you can have 10 experiences that are positive and and one that's not good and it will be the one that's not good that gets spoken about how do you manage that in terms of goalie because this is you saving 10 exceptional goals and letting one in and what we know is that that is the one that's likely to get talked about yeah yeah before i even get into this question i'd love to even just discuss about how i even got into psychology and studied it etc yeah so i started, I started, well, I first heard about psychology when I studied it at GCSE in year nine. So I studied it in year nine for GCSE and what really hooked me was just learning about just the science of behaviour. How, just understanding why people behave the way they behave. And what really got me really hooked into psychology

Starting point is 00:21:28 was learning about Ash's study and conformity, the psychological phenomenon in which people change their beliefs or their behaviours because of the people around them. Learning about that and its influence on different aspects of literally everything made me just have that passion for it and made me continue studying it alongside my football, whilst I was playing for Chelsea and West Ham. So doing my A-level in psychology and then obviously going on to study at university.

Starting point is 00:22:03 But negative attribution theories um as a goalkeeper when you how would you define attribute like attribution is talking about like the causes or what you basically describe the causes of something basically right yeah so it's it's what you see as a negative thing so it's a it's a negative judgment or negative label that you're applying to something and it's just you know it's that that one thing that that looks different or has gone wrong that's more likely to get remembered so it's like the novel concept so actually you know evolutionary it pays more sense to pay attention to the stuff that makes you sick or the stuff that actually feels really scary so that's why it exists as a concept so that it's not making

Starting point is 00:22:53 you miss anything that might be really really important for you um you know surviving whereas obviously things that feel good are good you know they release dopamine and all that jazz like who doesn't like a bit of dopamine but actually the thing things that feel awful or um you know are going to be releasing all of your stress hormones you know your cortisol and you know your all your nasty hormones that get your fight and flight going those are the things that are more likely to be dangerous to you and so it would make sense that we'd pay more attention to the negative things but obviously we're trying to navigate life with quite quite old brains in a modern world and it's it's a very different environment that we find

Starting point is 00:23:39 ourselves in now than what they were designed for yeah definitely i feel like with that it's all about reframing it reframing the different situations or um aspects that you're in because what you're describing there is similar to obviously negative reinforcement we have a negative experience that reinforces behavior or even a bit of like paranoia in terms of okay cool you don't want that negative experience so then you might change your behaviour as a goalkeeper yeah we go through that a lot in terms of avoidance avoidance of negative experiences and avoidance of that fight or flight situation. We have to learn from a young age not to fight or flight because our job is to literally stand in front of a ball

Starting point is 00:24:32 that's moving at high speeds or maybe put our hand in front of a ball that might break one of our fingers. So it's not a natural human action so basically yeah we basically have to train our bodies to override those natural responses absolutely that is and it's not an easy thing to do you know even as I watch my boys and their teams play football you know sometimes they'll flinch or they'll turn their back on the ball. And you're having to really train yourself not to do that.

Starting point is 00:25:08 And I am scared of footballs, I have to say, from growing up in a comprehensive school where the football would fly over the net and hit you in the face and it's gritty and it's cold and it hurts. And it's also a bit humiliating. Like that's stayed with me as a bit of a trauma. And the kids know there's one thing that's going to annoy me it's hitting mummy in the face with a football um like it's really difficult and yeah like you you see goalies take balls to the face and all sorts and they've just gotta they've just gotta keep on haven't they you've just gotta you know keep your eye on what's

Starting point is 00:25:40 going on and kind of suppress your physical sensations and your emotions as well. It's not an easy job to do at all. No, not at all, not at all. Because one particular situation for me whilst coming through the academy system at Chelsea was learning the specific goalkeeping technique of a block save. A block save is a save where the striker or the person in opposition is quite close to the goal

Starting point is 00:26:10 and you have to put your body frame in a lower position and make your body big as if you're blocking the ball from going past you, whether it hits your face or any part of your body, that ultimately is to prevent the ball from going past you. And a key tendency that a lot of younger goalkeepers have whenever they're learning that technique is to turn their face away because it's your natural response.

Starting point is 00:26:41 Because obviously you know that the ball is going to hit you, it's going to injure you, so your body is naturally going to turn your face away out of protection. So it was difficult for me to get out of that natural inclination to turn your head. But once you're making a block save, it's so important to make sure your head stays square, eyes on the ball, which is obviously contradictory to your natural responses but yeah just having that I thought that's what different skills that separates them high level goalkeepers from ones that are not as high level it's that fearlessness and it's another parallel there with psychology profession isn't it you've got to keep your eye on the game.

Starting point is 00:27:25 You've got to keep looking forward no matter what's trying to distract you or no matter what feels scary. Yeah, just really, really hard stuff that you're having to put your body and your mind through, Daniel. How old were you when you first got scouted? Yeah, I got scouted when I was 12. When was 12 I was playing for my for my local Sunday League team and we were doing we were doing quite well we were doing quite well um playing games and I remember the game so vividly it was one of the games where I think I had made an assist from my

Starting point is 00:28:03 goal so I literally just booted the ball up up the pitch and then the striker scored and I think I had made an assist from my goal. So I literally just booted the ball up the pitch and then the striker scored. And I think we ended up winning the game. And then after the game, went home, showering. Then my brother just knocks on the door and he's just screaming. He just said, wow, you got scouted by Chelsea. You got scouted by Chelsea.

Starting point is 00:28:21 And I was like, I didn't believe him at first. And then my mum came in to confirm it and we just we just started screaming and shouting and everything this was yeah amazing it's so lovely to watch you reflect on that because it's obviously still a really really fond memory you know you smiled as you were talking about it and even though you were 12 you know it's it's a key formative experience for you and one that has led to you being, you know, where you are now. Yeah, like really special stuff. But basically your whole adolescence and beyond has been kind of on the professional football scene.

Starting point is 00:28:58 Yeah, definitely. Did you live at home during the whole time or have you been kind of had the David Beckham effect of kind of moving away and having kind of house parents and all of that jazz? Yeah, I've had I've had a mixture of both. I've had a mixture of both. So I'm living at home through the early years and we often did trips away. So times away from home where we're staying with maybe host families staying at a hotel or going abroad I know when I was at Chelsea we went to five or six different countries on international tournaments and yeah moving abroad for when I played for Barnsley's living living on my own for the first time

Starting point is 00:29:40 etc and staying at home all of that yeah again another psychology parallel as well so whilst we don't tend to move around internationally um for aspiring psychologist roles sometimes you can be flitting about all over the country for different roles and kind of starting again and trying to make new colleague relationships and kind of where you're going to live. And like, sometimes you might not even know where somewhere is and a job comes up and you think, oh, I'll give that a go. And, you know, then your whole life is different. And yes, it's kind of in your control

Starting point is 00:30:14 because you could say no. But if you want your career to keep moving forward, it's not really a choice that you can say no to when that offer comes up. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. a choice that you can say no to when the when that offer comes up yeah definitely definitely it's just about being open to the different experiences and enjoying the journey yeah and you know I know there's probably is it the majority of professional footballers now are coming up through the academy systems but are there other ways to become professional footballers or you know what's that like at the moment yeah there is there is definitely other ways it's not only the academy

Starting point is 00:30:53 system route that is the only way it's even a main message that I was speaking with on one of my podcast episodes in terms of which is titled in a different way a different journey to becoming a professional football which is through through the non-league route and through them playing Sunday league and going up through the ranks of playing men's football from a young age I know a lot of a lot of clubs are valuing young players who have men's football experience from a young age because it's something that academy players might not have. Right. Okay. It's important stuff. Have you done any coaching yourself yet?

Starting point is 00:31:31 Or you've done your refereeing? Or are you still firmly in player mode? Yeah, so I have my coaching badges. I have my UFSC FA Level 2. I've done the National Goalkeeping course last year. So I have a little bit of experience doing that. Amazing, amazing. And I'm sure once you've got that insight as well,

Starting point is 00:31:54 it makes you look differently on your own career and the people that have supported you as well. It gives you new insight when you learn new stuff, doesn't it? Definitely. So something that's cropped up for me in the last year as I broke my left arm in April last year and injury really sucks like it affects everything it affects the way you think about yourself like I'm quite into kind of sport and exercise and when you're injured you can't do that like you can't sleep it hurts you know I noticed my mood took a real dip is injury something that that's cropped up for you in your

Starting point is 00:32:31 career yeah it has it has it has my remember my first big injury was when I tore my tore my MCL as a as a firstyear scholar at West Ham. It was a painful experience because it was right before I was supposed to play in the FA Youth Cup games, which is like the pinnacle of the experience of being a scholar. FA Youth Cup is one of the biggest tournaments for scholars. So it was a frustrating experience. But yeah, tearing your MCL. so I had a grade two tear, so it was almost like fully, the ligaments were almost fully torn.

Starting point is 00:33:14 Luckily, I was able to manage it without getting a surgery, so I had to just wear a knee brace for almost 12 weeks, knee brace and crutches for almost 12 weeks and yeah how did that affect your mood at that time yeah very it was it was very difficult initially it was difficult to get your head around not playing and going through a new experience not knowing whether what's going to happen etc but one thing that really helped me was the fact that I was studying alongside alongside my football gave me something else to gave me something else to focus on yeah only my my a-level psychology alongside my football and I remember yeah so

Starting point is 00:34:01 after my day of rehab I go home and just um do some revision do some tests and it's um a good balance it's something I speak about my podcast in terms of having an identity on football something like that allows you to take your mind off it and put your teeth into something else where you can have some autonomy or um control over okay yes that locus of control stuff's really really important isn't it that's control control the things you can control rather than worrying about the things that you can't and i guess trying to nourish your body optimally so that you can repair the kind of tendon and ligament damage and so that you're maintaining your muscles elsewhere i think what i learned from my experience with my arm was your ligaments and your tendons get very wise very quickly when

Starting point is 00:34:50 they're not being used and they shrink up um and it they shrink far quicker than they grow um and the growing of them again is actually some of the most painful painful bits yeah definitely definitely yeah it's a frustrating experience especially with ligaments and tendons because they don't heal as well as bones especially tendons i recently had an injury a mallet finger injury which my tendon or my ligaments and tendons in my finger, they've been torn. So my finger now will never be straight again because the tendon wasn't able to heal properly. And it doesn't take quite a long time to heal.

Starting point is 00:35:37 So football is shaping your body for the better and the worse. Like you're stuck with that now. Yeah, yeah. Do you wear some wicked goalie gloves if you got cold hands in winter is a real problem for goalies that's what i've been experiencing have they got have you got some super duper gloves that stop that happening uh no not really i actually i'm sponsored i'm sponsored by um links goalkeeping which are a great goalkeeping brand tell us about tell us about them and their gloves yeah I feel like they're modern modern style of gloves

Starting point is 00:36:15 they're mainly on instagram they have a lot of high profile goalkeepers across the country different countries but they create a lot of content on youtube and on tiktok and just really appealing to the next generation of goalkeepers which is why i really like working with them they make amazing goalkeepers they make goalkeeping fun in which it is brilliant i will check that out and uh yeah have a look whether they do little people sizes as well as big people sizes um i'll be able to help sort you up oh bless you you're kind um so yeah have you got any kind of advice for i guess aspiring psychologists who might want to pursue sports psychology or or any professional

Starting point is 00:37:06 psychology route and who might also be interested in football for not burning out on the way because it's really really hard and it's not knowing whether it's going to be a tough slog that has the prize at the end that you hope is going to be there yeah i would say don't do it just quit i'm joking i'm joking i'm joking i'm joking i'm joking but um the temptation the temptation is there sometimes i'm sure yeah yeah definitely you have to wait your why your why has to be strong your eyes to be strong in terms of why why you want to do it why you want to get qualified why you want to go down that period if your why is not

Starting point is 00:38:00 strong enough then it'll be it'll be a very difficult thing. So on those days when you want to quit, you've got to really connect to your why. That's how you push through. That's how you get to another day. Yeah, 100%, 100%. And as well as that, you've got to be disciplined. You certainly are. They don't give away first-class degrees, and nor do they give away places on football teams. so you've obviously got a whole lot of discipline and

Starting point is 00:38:30 your family and your friends and the way that you apply yourself you know you are wise and you know it pays dividends and so credit to you where it's due thank you very much thank you very much but yeah just to add on to that in terms of um advice yeah it's just about having a a balanced balanced schedule so when i was um final year last year whilst playing football final year dissertation etc everything football games balancing all of those things navigating social lives and everything I feel like it's just having a good organized schedule discipline and time management creating opportunities to to do other things other than football or work or school or uni work or

Starting point is 00:39:21 placements or other things it's just yeah that work life work life balance really really important stuff and sometimes that looks like just laying down and doing nothing you know and sometimes we're able to say no to people to prioritize actually doing nothing and that's okay too isn't it have you got aims to maybe go on to become a sport and exercise psychologist what's the ultimate goal do you think because there will come a time when you will your body will start to say no to football you know you are still lovely and young at the moment but believe me that won't last forever um have you got an ultimate professional goal yeah yeah so obviously I spoke about my experience of um I didn't even speak about my experience of um working with psychologists in the academy system and um my experience with psychology dealing with negative experiences as a goalkeeper so yeah so studying psychology alongside that yeah just um but the work I've done with

Starting point is 00:40:29 sports psychologists whilst being at West Ham really helped my game go to the next level allowing me to cope and be the player I am today so um we spoke about me or it being difficult to cope with mistakes or conceding goals as a goalkeeper is something that was really frustrating for me where if I made a mistake or if I maybe conceded a goal it will affect the rest of the training session or the rest of my next action or performance because of that mental mental fog or dwelling on that previous mistake. But working with sports psychologists at those different teams allowed me to develop coping mechanisms to reframe those situations and actually perform better, perform better.

Starting point is 00:41:15 So using stuff like positive self-talk, breathing techniques in order to deal with those negative thoughts whilst training or even in the games allowed me to take my performance to the next level. So just having experiences like that

Starting point is 00:41:31 and obviously studying psychology alongside that, I want to have my eyes set on becoming a qualified sports psychologist and, you know,

Starting point is 00:41:40 having my own practice and using my experiences and qualifications to help the next generation of footballers take their performance to the to the next level that's ultimately the goal but it's the the accreditation pathway is it is daunting it is yeah there's there was multiple stages multiple stages um but yeah i i wish you all the very best with your um professional footballing career and you know where that may may take you but also your

Starting point is 00:42:12 psychology career in future and if there's anything i can do to support any of that at any point just give me a shout no i will do thank you very much thank you for taking the time to speak with our audience i know you're super super busy um so yeah thank you thank you again for your time daniel no worries no worries thank you for having me on this has been it's been really good you're so welcome what an absolute pleasure to speak with daniel thank you again for him in spending his time with us and helping us to look at the similarities and the differences between a psychology career and one as a professional footballer. Daniel seems very wise, even beyond his years, and very thoughtful. He was just recovering from a really awful cold. Hope

Starting point is 00:42:57 that by the time you listen to this, Daniel, you are feeling fully recovered. Daniel Gennadu can be found on YouTube, which is where his podcast is, and the podcast Beyond Football is also available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. You can also follow Daniel on Instagram, on LinkedIn and TikTok, where he is Daniel Gennardou. I would love to know what this has evoked for you. Perhaps you're listening because you yourself are an aspiring sport and exercise psychologist, or perhaps you're listening just because you have an interest in all the different facets of psychology, or just in the interest of people, which is one of my specialist interests as well. If you, like me, are passionate about psychologists having a protected title, please do go and sign the petition,

Starting point is 00:43:47 which you can find by going to my LinkedIn profile, Dr. Marianne Trent. And there is a post there that is pinned where you can read all about the petition. At the time of recording this episode, we are on 8,707 signatures. When we get to 10,000 signatures, we will get some sort of feedback from the government. And when we get to 100,000 signatures, which we are not going to stop until we do, this will be considered for a debate in Parliament. So if you, like me, are passionate about this, please do sign that petition and do come on over to my Instagram as well, Dr. Marianne Trent. Let me know on there and let me know on LinkedIn that you have signed and why. I hope you find these podcasts really interesting. If you do, please follow the show on Spotify and

Starting point is 00:44:36 or Apple Podcasts. Please subscribe, like the content, do all those good things, share it, tell your friends if you are watching on youtube thank you so much for watching come over to the free facebook group the aspiring psychologist community dr marianne trent consider the membership the aspiring psychologist membership and the books as well as the aspiring psychologist collective and the clinical psychologist collective thank you for listening and for watching and for being part of my world. The next episode will be available to you from 6am on Monday for the audio version

Starting point is 00:45:11 and is available from 10am on Saturdays for the YouTube version. Take care and be kind to yourselves. Thank you. my name's yana and i'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner i read the clinical psychologist collective book i found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease

Starting point is 00:46:33 and everything will be okay. But trust me you will not put the book down once you start.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - The psychology of professional football with Daniel jinadu

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