The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - The Smartphone Solution: How to Mindfully Introduce Phones to Kids (and Ourselves)

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Smartphones are everywhere but how do we know when (and how) to give one to our kids? In this episode of The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, Clinical Psychologist Dr Marianne Trent is joined by Dr Martha Deiros Collado to talk about her new book, The Smartphone Solution. Together we explore how to mindfully introduce smartphones to children, set healthy boundaries, and rethink our own relationship with screens.From managing FOMO and group chats to being role models for digital habits, this episode dives into the real challenges families face. You’ll learn practical tips to reduce overstimulation, create phone-free zones, and help kids notice how screens affect their wellbeing.Whether you’re a parent, teacher, psychologist, or just curious about healthier screen use, this conversation will give you insight, reassurance, and tools to feel more in control.⏱️ Highlights & Timestamps:00:00 – Introducing Dr Martha and The Smartphone Solution02:10 – Fear messaging vs reassurance: starting the phone conversation well03:50 – Why we scroll mindlessly and how it costs us time and presence05:34 – Taking control: parents as role models for digital habits06:31 – Peer pressure, FOMO, and the stress of group chats07:27 – Case study: a 13-year-old overwhelmed by 200+ WhatsApp messages daily09:17 – Alternatives to smartphones: why basic mobile phones still matter11:05 – Helping kids notice how screen use impacts emotions and wellbeing12:57 – When “helpful” parental boundaries can backfire15:11 – Why constant connection becomes meaningless “white noise”17:49 – Teaching kids good social skills before digital ones18:34 – The power of voice notes and video calls for real connection21:16 – Rest, overstimulation, and why we need phone-free zones25:20 – The “Tamagotchi effect” of phones demanding constant attention28:20 – Phones at the dinner table: should we be more offended?31:00 – Phone-free zones, alerts, and reclaiming presence at home35:48 – Tiny tweaks for big impact: practical steps for healthier habits39:15 – Publication details: where to get The Smartphone SolutionLinks:📚 Grab Dr Martha's brand new book The Smartphone Solution here: https://amzn.to/4n1Mc5Z 📲 Follow Dr Martha here: https://www.instagram.com/dr.martha.psychologist/🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97 💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested🖥️ Check out my brand new short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/short-courses✍️ Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now:

I'm Jo and I work as an assistant practitioner in a CAM service in Lancashire. I bought and read Marianne's book The Clinical Psychologist Collective to accompany me while completing the clinical psychology training application. It proved to be really good company. I found it sparked ideas of how to build experience and skills, but more than that, it offered the chance to get lost in people's stories. It provided a timely reminder not to get so cold. up in an end goal and to value and enjoy each job we fulfil along the way because the work we do now is important and matters to those we sit alongside as well as ourselves. It also gave the reassurance that there are eclectic roots into clinical psychology, which is important for me as someone who's had a meandering journey and not a typical route to the profession. I wholeheartedly

recommend the book for both personal and professional reasons. Be prepared to put evening tasks on hold for a while though because once you've started reading it's tough to put it down we often hand kids a phone and just hope for the best but what if that device is more like inviting an extra person into the family and a risky one at that in this episode I'm joined by Dr Marta de Roscajado to talk about her brand new book the smartphone solution our chat today is packed full of great tips and advice about how to introduce smartphones mindfully to set boundaries that actually work and even think about our own relationship with our screen time too. Whether you're a parent,

a teacher, working in mental health or just someone who feels like their phone is running the show, this conversation will help you take back control. I hope you find it really useful if you do like and subscribe for more. Just want to welcome along to the podcast Dr Marta DeRos Coirado. Hi. Hi. Thanks for being here and today we're talking about a very exciting thing which is happening, which is the publication of your second book, which is about kind of mindful introduction of phones and kind of technology for children and young people, isn't it? Yes, it's called The Smartphone Solution. And for me, it's a reassuring toolkit for parents. I think smartphones are such a hot topic at the moment. I think there's a lot of fear messaging

around smartphones. And for me, fear isn't the best place to begin making like good choices in any kind of situation. So I want to help parents have some awareness of the science and of what the good bits about smartphones as well as the things that are risks and maybe harmful to and give them a toolkit to support themselves and building healthier habits with their smartphones, but also being able to delay smartphones for younger children in a way that's really effective. And if you've got an older children who already has a smartphone, teach them how to use it in a way that's safe and healthy. So we're not consumed by smartphone use, but instead they're tools that we use because they're useful. Yeah, such important messaging.

And it's actually about being more mindful about that, isn't it? And I watched your show, well done on your Channel 4 show as well, which was about that, the Great British Phone Swap, I think it was called, wasn't it? And it was just, I think it really showed me, like, how much scrolling people can do. And it's just as a way of almost killing time. It's not always as socially connected as we might think that it is. And it's, I really love the tip that you gave. It was like, tell someone what you're doing when you pick up your phone.

and then you're more likely to kind of only do that? It's one of those things that we do, again, without thinking. And I think most of us who own a smartphone now were never taught how to use it well. We might have learned how to use a particular app or, you know, something inside our phone. But we weren't taught about, you know, good behaviours, not so great behaviours. And we pick up our phones, I think, the way that we pick up a novel. We read them in silence. and they actually disrupt day-to-day interactions, day-to-day connections.

We call it technopference, which is, I love that word because it makes so much sense to me, you know, technology interference. But, I mean, we know that it disrupts connection. I mean, within, like, the scrolling is something that just happens because it's so engaging and so distracting. And maybe you're distracting from an emotion. Maybe you're distracting from boredom. Maybe you're procrastinating. Maybe you're actually intentionally going online to do something.

But as soon as you start to scroll mindlessly, you might lose half an hour, maybe an hour. And, you know, there's some kind of data saying something like five hours on your phone over the course of your life is something like 25 years of your time. And that kind of data has stayed with me because I just think, oh my God, imagine what you could do in 25 years. and for me it's it's not about thinking that everything you do on your smoke phone is bad or useless but it's about really being very intentional about what you do so that there's times where you're not holding your phone you haven't got it on you you're not scrolling mindlessly you've got your phone somewhere else so you can actually be be with somebody or be with the TV even or you know just be with yourself or just look around you know like there's so many things that i feel like we

miss because phones are really good at training us to check on them all the time and we don't have to like we can just be like okay you don't have to distract me i've got control over you because we do so that's one of the things i want to kind of help people understand that we've got control we are empowered as parents to take control of the habits that our children build with all technology but particularly smartphones. And I really think it does begin with us, kind of re-learning, unlearning some bits, re-learning some new bits, and embedding healthy habits in our home. So it becomes normal rather than something you've got to be like, I need to think about putting my phone down. Actually, if you just embed it in ways that are actually much simpler than you think,

you might not have to think about it anymore. It just becomes a habit. Yeah, and I think I am naturally a bit more bounded about my phone. I am quite an annoying friend, but I'm happy to be so, because I don't have notifications set up for my WhatsApp. So I pick it up when I have a free moment and where I can choose whether to respond or not respond, but it means that I will suddenly have a flurry of activity on a chat thread, like responding, responding, responding, but then you won't hear from me for hours. People know if you want me, you've got to call me or actually text me because I won't see it otherwise because I don't have no certifications.

And I think peer pressure is a big one, isn't it, for for kids, you know, for like Snapchat, for WhatsApp, for TikTok, like the FOMO and the, you know, the missing out on being in the moment. But I guess the message we want is it's okay. It's okay to do that. It's okay to miss out 100%. And it's also important to teach our children that thing you've learned, actually, Marianne, is not something lots of adults have learned, right? That kind of overwhelmed from WhatsApp in particular, group messaging, whatever chat you're using, the group messaging kind of, I don't know, culture, because it exists and we're all on it, is something we should be teaching our children. So this is a little story, and I've shared it a few times because it's really stayed with me, but I could share a thousand different ones. A young girl, that's 13, came to see me in clinic, and she was overwhelmed with anxiety,

which wasn't about her phone, just so we're clear. There were lots of things happening in her life. So the work, the core of our work was around anxiety, building coping tools, and also kind of learning to be with the feeling rather than avoid it or reject it. But part of the work that happened was that she had a phone, she had a smartphone, she probably still does, but her parents were really quite bounderied with it. And in the evening, they were very clear that she had to hand it in at 7 o'clock. And then she got it back in the morning. But in the morning, she told me, every morning she had over 200 messages pop up.

And she did not want to go to school without reading every single one of them. For the reason you've just said, I don't want to mention. out, like to her missing out was such a huge sense of anxiety. But, you know, if we really think about this, she's 13. How is that okay to be living with anxiety from other places? You know, anxiety is just part of life. We shouldn't be afraid of it. You know, I really feel like we need to learn to live with. But yes, anxiety can be overwhelming and stop us from functioning. And if one of the things that's stopping us from functioning well or stopping your child functioning well is social anxiety coming through a smartphone. We need to shift that. Now, for me, the solution

with this young lady wasn't get rid of your phone, which it could be. There are alternatives, which I think are better, healthier, safer until children learn, you know, skills that are going to keep them safer online and accessing unfiltered internet, for example, which are, for me, mobile phones. I don't like calling them dumb phones or brick phones. They're just, mobile phones are great. So I don't want to dump them down. I don't know why we do that. They're not worse than a smartphone. They're different. They have a, you know, they actually do the role that you're talking about. They connect. You can text, you can call, you can take photos, you can still socialize with your friends, but they don't allow group chats and they don't allow unfiltered access to the internet.

And I think that's healthy. You can still teach your kid's responsibility using a phone and good digital habits and, you know, cyberbullity. There's so many things you can teach them with a phone. Anyway, this young girl kept her smartphone, but she chose to come off WhatsApp. That was her choice. But over the course of our work, she decided that WhatsApp was one of the things that was overwhelming her to the point where she couldn't do her homework anymore. because she was like, I've been running out of time to like read all the messages and in the morning I've got 200 more to read. I mean, that's not the way to socialize. So we need to help our

children understand what is good socialization? What does that look like? What does it feel like? In person, first of all, you know, can we develop good social skills with people because they translate into the digital world 100%. And then we need to teach our children that when something doesn't feel good in the real world or online. You need to like pause, reflect and set up some boundaries because something isn't working. The same way that if you were always going to a friend's house and every time your child goes to that friend's house, they come out completely distressed, you'd be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, something's going on with this friend. We need to think about how you're feeling in relationship with this other child because something doesn't feel

right. But that happens on our phones too. You know, kids are exposed to stuff that distresses them, that builds anxiety, that builds sadness, that builds anger in their bodies. And if they're not able to register it, because our brains do something very different when we're looking at tech than when we're looking at a person, the distance from the screen to another human means that we sometimes don't register what's happening in our bodies. And I really believe that, you know, that should be part of emotional regulation. That should be part of how, we teach our children, how do you feel when you come off your screen? How does it feel that you're giving me your phone? Like with this young girl, she felt, I can't go to sleep. Like,

I know, I know that in the morning. I've got to, I mean, you know, just having that conversation with her parents was absolutely life-changing, I think, for them as a family, because the parents were like, we thought we were setting a boundary that was going to help her rest. But actually, she was stressing about all the messages that were going to appear before she even woke up. like that's not a way to rest that she was just like buzzing even though her phone was nowhere near her we need to understand that and be aware of it as parents so that we can adjust the boundaries have open conversations with our kids how can we allow our children to stay connected so she uses hopefully still does don't know um she might see this and message me um she uses

WhatsApp on her parents' laptop. So she still has communication with her friends, but when she closes it, she's like, I'm not looking at this in the morning. I do this and then I go away. And she's also very clear about that boundary with some of her friends. She's gone off all the big groups. WhatsApp is, I know you said yours is no notifications, which I think is great. Hers is like not on my phone. Like WhatsApp is something I do in a laptop, intentioning. I'm sent it out after school and I'm going to like chit-chat to particular friends, but I'm not in my class group, for example. She realized she didn't have to hear everything from every kid in her year. She was like, why am I doing that? And the truth is, loads of teenagers do it for that reason,

the fear of losing out. And we need to like help them learn. That's not what good social interaction looks like. Yeah, absolutely. And I had a very similar experience in our house. So my eldest had a phone, a smartphone, my old smartphone. I think this is the tricky thing, is I didn't necessarily buy it for him, but I'd got rid of it because the battery, you know, iPhones, wasn't lasting. So I bought him a phone case charger thing, which then meant the battery was fine again. And I gave him that in kind of around half term, October half term, year six, because he'd started to go out by himself. So it was more as a tracking device. But actually, when he went to year he's just about to start year eight um one sunday afternoon i could just hear this buzzing buzzing buzzing buzzing

and i realized it was his phone and like oh strange um he didn't have it with him i think he was at a piano lesson or something and during the space of about three hours i went and looked at his phone he had 1,157 WhatsApp notifications and it was just basically his year group just like spamming like just stupid stuff like and I think the difference with communication like if I sent you a message I would send it all in one go whereas often they'll send it line by lines that comes through as separate things separate buzzes separate notifications and I was like I think that's something adults don't all understand teenagers don't communicate online like we communicate online they do that sentence by sentence moment by moment also you know if you've got if you've got a smart

phone in your pocket, it's not the same as a tablet or a laptop because it's so readily accessible. So something happens or they see something, they'll pick it up, they take a photo, they send it to the grip, you know, like, it's that instant, it's that instant kind of messaging that really appeals to teenagers. Like, look, look what I'm seeing. It's like they're constantly talking to each other, right? They never have to be separate from each other, which I remember as an adolescent, you know, really wanting. I'd been all day at school with my friends and I'd come home and I would go straight on my landline and be like calling my best friend. I remember my mum saying, what on earth have you got to say to her? You've been at school with her all day and I was like

loads of stuff has happened. You know, like it's just what you do as a teenager. And I think as adults, we need to understand that that poll is going to be there and it's normal. It's part of development. But we need to help our children connect well with their friends rather than connect all the time. Because when we do it all the time, it becomes meaningless. It basically is like white noise. It's not meaningful interaction anymore. It's just buzz and stress. You know, it's sensory overwhelm is what I think it becomes. But it does, it's not meaningful anymore because you can't, you know, out of a thousand messages, which of those are the ones that your kid has to like use discernment to go, these are the important ones I'm going to hold and respond to. These

are all the ones I'm going to ignore. I mean, as an adult, I find that overwhelming, let alone being a teenager who wants to respond to every single one of those messages. It's really tough, and we need to teach our children how to connect well, which is why I wrote my book, because I think as adults, we've not been aware that this is what happens when we offer a children a hand-me-down. We're trying to support them in staying connected with us, like you said, you know, being contactable, being safe. It all makes so much sense. But I think being aware that actually a smartphone doesn't do all of that. It does that and it has the potential to overwhelm, to stress, to overstimulate, to not allow your child a break. Then you can start to think, how do we give them connection and socialization,

but in a way that feels more boundaries, that feels that may be safer as well, because the unfiltered internet is not safe. I mean, I'm not even sure it's safe for adults. let alone kids who are really impulsive and we'll see something and be like, oh, what's that? And suddenly they're like diving into something they weren't even looking for. Like that happens all the time. It's curiosity and they're really curious. So I think for me, the reason why I wrote my book was to build awareness about all of this,

but really to give parents a toolkit because I don't think awareness on its own is often motivational enough. I think people get stuck in the fear, which is what we have at the moment. And I really wanted people to feel unstuck. I wanted people to feel like, okay, I've got a toolkit, and I can use it, and I can embed some of these ideas in my family home, not just for my kids, but for me to role model what this looks like and try it out. Like, for me, it's about doing it together.

You and your child, you're on the same side, and smartphones are not your whole world, you know, your whole identity. They're just a tool. And, you know, even using them well for connection is something I don't think we're very good at because texts are the worst way to connect through a phone. Phone calls are so much better and video calls are even better. So I think if you have a smartphone, start video calling people or voice note people, which lots of people in my generation will not do. But it's so much better. It's the human essence of us.

And that's what builds connection, not words on a text that have no tone. You can misread them. You know, I've met so many kids who are like, look, I mean, loads of the kids I work with, show me their phones, show me their texts. So much of their life happens online. But they'll show me a text, and the way I interpret it is so different from the way they interpret it. I don't know who's right, because it's a text. That's very different if you have a phone message or a voice note.

And that's something I'm learning, because I've started to voice note a lot more, especially when I have something meaningful to say. If I want to say something caring to my friend because she's having a really tough time, she's sick, you know, something's happened to my kids, I voice note. I want them to hear my voice. I want them to hear,

and maybe we don't have to have, I don't have time for a two and for a conversation, which is what I think texting is about. I don't have time to call somebody. I just want to say something quickly, you know, I hope you're okay. Let me know how your kid is doing. you know i get it but if you do it on a voice note it actually shares a little bit of humanness

that is totally lacking in a test and honestly since i've been doing it which is just before i started writing my book and definitely since um i've noticed something really interesting which is every single time every time my friends replying and say something like oh my god you made me really happy or i cried or and i've said like literally 30 second or maybe you're be a minute message. But it's because they hear my voice and they're like, it's like you're here with me. And I'm like, yeah, that's what we should be using of phones for to feel like we're in the presence of others who are far away from us, not to be overwhelmed by text messages or noise or, you know, distressing videos. Definitely. I love a voice note. Not everyone does, but I do. My husband

was like, please, can you never leave me a voice note again? I'm like, okay. Why? Why did you say that? He doesn't like, because it takes me so long. It takes ages to listen. I was like, well, you can click transcribe if you must. I think that's so interesting. But I think that's just part of what's happening at the moment. There's this kind of speed in our society. Like, we're scared to slow down.

Like, don't slow me down. I can't listen to your voice now. Or don't call me because I don't have time. I'm like, actually building healthy habits with technology might actually give a space and tame. which you don't even realize we're wasting when we're mindlessly scrolling and we think we're relaxing, but we're not, because if we actually notice what's happening in our bodies, a lot of a time, we're not more relaxed when we like put the phone out. We're more stressed because we've spent

too long on it or we've looked at content that isn't uplifting or isn't making us feel good. So, you know, I think, I mean, that is also in my book. I think learning to rest and teaching our children this is critically important. I mean, you know, we think about development. Development isn't just reading and writing and riding a bike. It's emotional. It's learning what does my body need? What does my brain need? What kind of social interaction makes me feel good? What kind of social interaction do I need a little bit lesser? Because actually, it's making me feel really bad by the time I get to bed. Those things matter. And I think if you've not learned them in childhood and you're then given a smartphone, I think it just disrupts all of it. I think it's

really tricky. And I think that's why lots of adults my age find the changing habits so challenging because they're so embedded now that it feels difficult. Do you think some of the slippery slope started with these unlimited contracts? So when I was learning to use a phone, I had to pay 12 p per text. You know, maybe you did as well. And you only had like, can't you? And you only had like a maximum of like 200 or 300 minutes that you could use and so you had to kind of meter your usage and you wouldn't just send something kind of you know vague or unrelated it was it was a method of connecting and communication but now you probably wouldn't dream of buying a phone contract that didn't have unlimited texts that didn't have unlimited minutes now it's the data that might

be more capped and that's the thing that you might think about but you know i think definitely interesting thought. I've definitely picked up my phone more. I remember when my friend Nikki at uni, I think we'd left uni and she was one of the first ones to get like 500 text messages a month as part of her contract. And I thought, amazing, I'll hear from her all the time. Like, she's going to have so many messages. Like, but I didn't hear from her any more than I used to. And then when I got my own 500 contract, like I just, you know, I just started to use it more. in the way that I do now. And then I messages started

and then that doesn't even count towards your message date. Like, I think it's just, it's almost caught us, caught us unawares, I think. They gave us more of what they thought we wanted and maybe we never needed it to begin with. I think,

I think they give us more of what keeps us online for more and we need to be aware that that's what brings money to these companies, to these apps. The more time we spend online, the more money they make. fact. We're losing out. I mean, we're definitely losing out. We're losing out on time. We're losing out on our well-being. I really believe that. We're losing out on our presence. We're

losing out on the ability to just be. But they're gaining. Like, everything you're talking about makes complete sense to me. I hadn't thought about the unlimited stuff, but 100%. That's just, for me, that's just another trick to keep us online for longer. And I think it's about us. making a decision, right? We live in a consumerist society. And it's not just smartphones. There's lots of things that around us make us spend more money. You know, marketing is, that's what it's for, right? That's capitalism. That's what it is. So I think we need to be discerning and thoughtful about where, you know, we put, I mean, everyone I know works really hard to earn the money that they earn and we need to start to think where do I want to spend my money but also where do I want

to put my energy I think we need to start putting value to our time and our energy when we're not at work in the same way that we do when we're at work because you know I often think about that with my kids I think about it's really confronting because it makes me emotional because I know I fall into this trap and it is in my book and I couch it in so much empathy because I know I do this too but you know our phones have definitely trained us to keep them on us and to keep checking them a bit like i think of it a bit like a pet or something you got to keep alive you know are you okay yeah you're fine are you okay the tamagotchi effect it's the tamagotchi a hundred percent and you know you said about your first phone i got we know how annoying those tamagotchis

were right i never had one because like didn't you they did they did themselves you, they needed feeding. They'd bleep at you in the middle of the night. I've seen them. I know. We've basically got tamagocches that we carry around constantly. 100%. I think about that all the time. Honestly, I think that's actually my analogy. But genuinely, it's that. A thousand percent. And I remember my first phone, I got it when I went to university. My parents bought it for me in like a Vodafone shop. It was like a brick. And I never took it with me. I left it in my room all the time. And I remember my mum going, every time I call you, you don't pick up. And I'm like, I don't carry it with me. You know, it was a mobile phone that

was like a landline. And then as they got smaller, I moved from that. It was massive. It was an Erickson. I literally was the size of my head. It was so big. I moved from that to a tiny Nokia. I don't know if you remember them. And they used to fit in my denim jacket. So then I used to take it everywhere and that's where it started for me for sure that it fit on me and it had um it used to buzz you could put it on buzz which wasn't silent but rather than the you know rain did did dee or whatever it used to do it used to buzz at me and so I ended up always having it on me so I could feel it but not hear it I think that's a problem I think that's for me where it all began that kind of training the Tamagocchi training

of I'm buzzing so you need to care for me, you need to look, you need to stop whatever you're doing and go into this digital kind of world. I actually talk about thinking of your screen like a front door and every time you open it, you're going into another world because you're disengaging from whatever you're doing. And for me that's a really helpful metaphor that I use for myself because when I'm with other people and they pick up their phones and I'm talking to them it's so grating but we do it to all like I do it you probably do it you get it done to you and it's so offensive it's like it's like my toddler being like mama mama which she does all day I'm talking to your dad you know and I'm trying to teach our patience

right now you know hold my hand I'm just going to finish and I do it very quick I don't even really finish my sentence but I try and model that I'm having a conversation and now I turn to you. But we don't do that with our phones. We don't do that with our phones. They buzz. We just pick them up. Oh, sorry. No, I just wanted to see. No. Like, why? Why is that buzzing more important than this conversation we're having? Or more important than this essay you're writing or whatever, whatever you're doing, the film you're watching. Are you sure it's that important? Or is it just that you've been trained? And if you've been trained, you can untrain yourself. I think many of us have become less offended. I remember the

first time I ever went out for dinner with one of my friends at the time. She's still my good friend, actually, Dr. Kara. And she put her phone on the table, probably wasn't the first time we've been out for dinner, but the first time this had happened. And I remember feeling a bit offended, like, are you going to get a better offer than what we're doing right now? Whereas now, it's so common that we will have our phone on the table, not for my family dinners, I don't do that for family dinners. We have a zero phone policy for family dinners. But it's so common when you go out for dinner at a restaurant

that you will have your phone on the table. And maybe we need to start being more offended by that again. I think it's just become normalized, hasn't it? It's just become like the status quo. And I think I don't know about getting more offended. I believe in communicating better with each other. Like, you know, and I give. scripts for this in my book because I think it's really easy to snap at somebody. And actually when

we do that, it doesn't teach them anything other than go, oh, you made me feel bad. You know, oh, sorry. You know, like, that's not what I want, like in my relationships, for example. But I do want to kind of help people understand that actually doing that when I'm being present, like in a restaurant, that example is lovely, right? When I'm in a restaurant, it's about being able to communicate what feels right for you in that moment with a friend, with a partner, with your child, if they've got a smartphone or if you've got one, you know,

that open dialogue is so important, which might sound more like, oh, I'm a bit uncomfortable, your phone is here. It's like there's three of us at the table. Would you mind putting it away while we're eating? And maybe, if you're waiting for something important, could you put it on ring? Can we all accept that actually when our phones ring,

maybe somebody really wants to come, get to us? And that's important. So put it on ring. And if it rings and you're like, I really need to check its work. Of course I'm going to let you pick it up. And I'm not going to get offended. But a bit like you're saying, maybe if it's on the table, then there's three of us at the table. And I'm not going to be able to have an interaction with the third one because it's your phone, right?

That is a personal relationship. I'm not even a part of. And I think we need to have that conversation as well as set like good, healthy limits and boundaries in our homes with our family, but maybe also our visitors, you know, grandparents, friends you come to visit. I believe in like phone-free zones in your home. I think they're so important. And when they're clear for everyone, you're embedding something. There are certain areas in your home where your phone should just not show up. Shouldn't be there. Shouldn't exist. Doesn't need to. You're not going to sit in this place for hours. That's something really important

is going to happen and you're going to miss it. You might. miss it but you can always pick it up again a bit like you know people who knock on your front door so when i have dinner if there's a delivery unless i know exactly what it is we will not get up we don't get up we're just like they'll leave it on the porch like they'll leave it of course they will um it's just you don't pick it up you just leave it and it's a bit with our phones we could be like i'll pick up that message later it's not an urgent message i think it's a interesting that notifications are called alerts. When you alert something, it's important. Our phones are training us through their language, through their noises, through like the

colours that they have to make them really important. But I think we can switch that off. Because once you're aware of the tricks, you can take control. Like a hundred percent, I believe that. That once you're like, oh yeah, that does happen to me. That's not helpful. You can switch you can switch off notifications for things that don't work for you you can put it on ring i'm always curious how many people switch off their phones ever completely unless they're on a plane you know it's one of my questions in my boat think about it but there's so many times where you could just switch it off do not a film at home not even in a cinema you do not have to have your phone on nothing's going to happen in two hours that like you need to know about switch it off and i think

when you need to put it on a ringtone, find a ringtone you like or a retro one or a song. Do you remember when we used to buy a phone ringtones? That's gone. I used to pay for mine. I want my phone to have this £2.60. Well, that's really expensive.

I'll go for this one. That's 99p. I mean, we don't do that anymore because nobody needs their phone to ring. I disagree with that. I think we need our phones to ring. I think we need to have them in a separate room. And they need to ring a little bit like a landline so that we're aware, oh, something's happening. And maybe I can pick up that message later. Oh, no, it's ringing continuously. Something important is going on.

That is very different to checking, like mindlessly checking. Oh, no, it's just the weather. Oh, no, it's the news. Oh, no. I just don't think that's helpful. And that's also impacting our nervous system because we're overstimulated by the buzzing all the time. That's so important. And I love the idea of thinking about it as a third person and actually I'm just back from holiday and I kept my phone mainly in the safe when I was away and because I just wanted to just obviously be present but also read more and you know play in the pool and do all of those things but yeah I love that idea and if I still had my ringed home that I'd paid money for I would be having the Justin Timberlake hook of it feels like something's heating up get with you get it back Marianne get it back on

I love it. That's what would be happening. So I've still got mine. So it's still ringing. What's it called? Oh my God, I have to look it up now because I want to tell you. It's a ring tone that we all got obsessed by when we went on a ski trip in Austria. Oh, oh no, it's on the tip of my tank.

Now I'm going to have to find it. But it's still there, so I've started to use it a bit more, but now I can't remember. Barbara Streisand. but it brings me such happy feelings I know what you mean oh you'll have to just listen it's called Barbara Streisor yeah that one

yeah I know what you mean it gives me such joy when I hear it like anywhere because it reminds me of that insane ski holiday with like there was 24 of us it was insane it was lovely and it was on every night it was like the song of the moment

But that's my ringtone, so I still have it. But I hadn't used it for ages. And then, you know, I think the process of writing my book, I wrote it for parents, but I definitely wrote it for me too because I think some of the questions I was considering or being asked or thinking about, I was like, these apply to me. And I can't tell people to do something that I'm not willing to do for myself in my home with my family. So so much of this book is for me, too. And one of the things I have done, for sure.

I mean, it's got a tick on Barberus Wright. That's what I found. I guess it's there. You know, I put my phone on ring. I do all these things I talk about. They are possible to do. I haven't asked for massive changes. And I think it's about picking and choosing the things you want to try out.

I always say with habits, like, you need to start teeny tiny and hold it and be really consistent. and then when it starts to feel really natural and comfortable and you're like, don't even think about it anymore, then you can introduce something else. You don't have to introduce and shouldn't introduce like 20 changes at once because it's going, it's not going to work. Teeny tiny tweaks can make such a difference like putting your phone in a different room, just as I said, you know, mealtimes or in those phone-free zones in your house. Oh, no, my phone's not allowed in this room, so I'll put it on ring and it's on a shelf and, you know, just that tiny thing. can suddenly go, oh my God, there's so much space in my house and it's so quiet and I feel so much

calmer. And I didn't realize that carrying my phone and was actually overstimulating me. But it is. It is like a toddler interrupting you every few minutes. And if you've got a toddler, it's an extra one. Yeah. My phone even likes to be present when I'm brushing my teeth. So I've got an oral B toothbrush that guides you. It's very handy, very, you know. But yeah, it likes to be in the bathroom with me. And so, yeah, this is really going to make me think about my phone-free zones. So I have that too, but I don't take it with me. I don't use it anymore.

I think it's great for learning that will all be up. Learning to brush your teeth well for the right amount of time. I still use it because when I don't, I do get a bit lazier and I will talk or multitask. It actually keeps me mindful when I'm brushing my teeth that I don't do something. else yeah got a smile to maintain but you know that my phone helps me be mindful to do this one do it that's not interrupting disrupting but don't sit and scroll on the toilet with it like that's that's a different thing but also well i don't know i think some people might be like on a toilet i like to be distracted you know i can't read on a toilet but i know people who like to read on a toilet

if that's you i would say there's nothing wrong with it that's the thing with the smartphone conversation feels like some things are bad and some things are good. And I'm like, but it's different for everyone. It's unique. And I think you need to find your balance, especially if you've got kids. You need to find your family balance. What works for you? If that works for you with your teeth, keep doing it. It, you know, fact, we listen to Hey Dougie, the toothbrush song with my kids every night. So the phone also comes with us with the toothbrushing. But we don't look at it, but we use it because it's so handy the song is on our phone we play it we know what two minutes sounds like they both love the song great why would i stop doing that it's not disrupting anything

it's facilitating something but maybe like i was saying maybe you don't need it on you don't need to scroll while you're watching a film are you watching a film or are you scrolling like make a decision you know that's the difference like find your moments this is going to stay with me and I'm going to get your book as soon as it's available. And I'm aware that by the time this is released, it should be available. Tell us, tell us when it's published, tell us where we can get it. And just remind us what it's called Dr. Marta. So it's called The Smart Phone Solution, When and How to Give Your Child a Phone,

and it's out on the 28th of August in all good bookshops. Your Waterstones will have copies of it. And if you have a local bookshop, which I always like to promote and kind of tell people about, you can go in and if they don't have a copy they can order it in for you i really believe in shopping small and you know supporting books and authors um people often ask me like where would you prefer us to buy your book and i'm like honestly your local bookshop would it pleases me when local bookshops kind of get that income i think it's lovely but you know all the waterstones will have it so that's somewhere i would say and of course you can also get it online um

So it should be in most places, I think. Amazing. And you're also on social media. I think that Instagram is the best place to follow you. If anyone's listening to this as a podcast, Dr. Marta is spelled Martha, so M-A-R-T-H-A. So you're on Instagram as Dr. Marta. Psychologist. Ah, right. Dr. Marta psychologist.

The reason being I'm not a medical doctor, and I'm very proud. of being a psychologist. That's my career. There's nothing wrong with it. So I, yeah, if I just call myself Dr. Marta, I always worries that people would think I was a medical doctor and I am not. So I am Dr. Marta, Martha, psychologist. Thank you for the clarification. It's been wonderful chatting with you and I hope that the book really gets digested and implemented because I think something needs to change, doesn't it? And yeah, I can't wait to, I can't wait to read it. well done to you in advance. Thank you.

And to anyone who's interested in learning more about Dr. Marta and her career, we've got another episode coming up to celebrate our 200 episode series where you can learn more about how Dr. Marta became the psychologist she is before us. So thank you for your time, Dr. Marta, and we will see you again very soon. See you, see. Thank you so much for Dr. Marta de Roscajado's time. What a wonderful episode. Please do let me know in the comments.

this has resonated with you. Has it set any ideas about how you might think about introducing phone time or maybe even going into, you know, drawing up more boundary use of phone and screen time for your children or children in your family or even children you might be working with if you're in a children and young people's service such as cams. I'm doing this episode on a different day than when I recorded with Dr. Marta and I'm wearing the same top so you didn't notice. Did you notice? Could you tell my hair was slightly different? But yeah, I have really found that it's resonated with me and made me think about being more intentional and more mindful with my phone use. So yeah, the evening that I did it, I decided

actually, when I'm watching TV with my husband, I don't use my phone anyway, but I'm going to keep it in a separate room. And then when he kind of goes up to use the bathroom and stuff in the evening. I would often sit and scroll and check what I'd missed on WhatsApp, but you know, I haven't. I haven't done it. It can wait. It can wait. I can get to it in the morning. So yeah, do let me know in the comments what you are having as your take home messages from this episode. There will be a link in the description and in the show notes for you to grab a copy of Dr. Marta's book, The Smartphone Solution. Please, if you do buy it and you enjoy it, please do leave Marta a review because it really does help people to demonstrate that their book is well

worth reading. And books that are well reviewed are shown higher up listings by booksellers. So it really does help them and the author too. Psychologist Paskets with Dr. Mary and Trent. Hi, my name is Emily. I am a master's student studying clinical psychology at Southampton. I bought the book of the Clinical Psychologist Collective to help myself prepare for my first round of doctorate applications, and I'm so glad I. did. Seeing how others have reflected on their journeys has been so insightful and it's given me a lot to reflect about with my own journey and skills. It's also helped to put things into perspective and reminded me that if I don't get onto the doctorate this year, that's okay. I think the most

unexpected pleasure of this book, however, was just how inspirational each and every person's journey was. And using these stories as my morning motivation each day has been such a pleasure. I'm almost reluctant to come to the end.