The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Understanding OCD and complex trauma with Alexandra Walker

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

Starting point is 00:00:32 the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up in today's episode, we are taking a close look at complex trauma and obsessive

Starting point is 00:01:07 compulsive disorder. We are chatting with Alexandra, who is somebody who has experienced these things from her childhood, and we piece together what has contributed to what she's experienced in adulthood. I think this is a really interesting topic. I hope it's one that you will relate to. I hope you find it so useful. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I am a qualified clinical psychologist. For those of you who have been in my world for a little while, you might already know that working with people with complex trauma and grief is one of my clinical specialties. This is something that I started in my career in the NHS and have continued into my private practice. But what is complex trauma? What are the symptoms that will commonly crop up, what might contribute to it and how can OCD make sense as a way of

Starting point is 00:02:08 coping and surviving? This is what we are talking about in today's episode as I speak with a real person who has experienced these difficulties. I hope you find it really useful, really interesting and I will look forward to catching up with you on the other side. Hi, just want to welcome along our guest for today, Alexandra. Hi, thank you for being here. Hi there, Marianne. It's lovely to be here. Thank you. So we wanted to have a chat today about your experiences growing up and how that's kind of shaped you and what you've reclaimed from that, really. And I know that your book is called Reclaiming Christmas, so I'm sure we'll hear a little bit more about that.

Starting point is 00:02:51 For anyone that's like, Reclaiming Christmas? Where are we? Like, we're recording this in May, but this is just a book title. It's not a seasonal book, is it? It's a book for anyone that's interested in learning more about trauma. So just before we get going, tell us a little bit about yourself, Alexandra. Yeah, of course. So I started off life in academia. I did a postdoctorate in applied maths and I met my husband who did a postdoctorate in physics. That tended to end quite a lot of conversations when we told people that, because it's a slightly scary combination. But then we moved to London and pursued corporate careers.

Starting point is 00:03:30 So I was in the civil service for 12 years and then moved into the charitable sector. But I just wasn't happy and I wasn't well, basically, for that entire time. And so I've been through quite a long journey of getting better and understanding why I had a bit of a myriad of mental health issues. And I've now recently set up my new business, Damsel Not In Distress, to support people to recover after life challenges. And I now live in what is today the very sunny Northwest Highlands of Scotland. Wow, what a journey, what a journey. and I can see why that might have stopped dinner party conversations because of how daunted people must be by the incredible genius of you and your husband

Starting point is 00:04:11 combined but North West Scotland sounds beautiful. Yes, well it turned out hill walking has been a massive part of my recovery and I slightly unnerved my husband when we were living in London and it was just after my mother had died about 10 years ago and I said Inerved my husband when we were living in London and it was just after my mother had died about 10 years ago and I said I think we should try to climb all the Munros which are the hills above 3,000 feet the only thing there being there are 282 of them and it's quite a feat to try and climb them all from London because obviously you have a very long journey to even get to the foot of the hill before you can start but we did it all in about seven years and finished just during the pandemic actually and but walking is just a wonderful restorative thing for me so uh we're now here permanently which is

Starting point is 00:04:54 beautiful oh amazing that sounds like a pr worthy pitch in itself wanting to climb all of the munros yes it was i at the beginning i had no idea what I was getting myself into, to be honest. But I got incredibly much fitter than I was before and, you know, scrambled up rock faces and did things I'd never imagined I would do. I abseiled, which I seriously never imagined I would do. So, yes, it certainly got me to try out new things and get comfortable with new things. Well, I'm really pleased to hear that you found a wonderful coping strategy. But of course, what would be useful to know is a little bit about what you were trying to cope with and why.

Starting point is 00:05:41 And I'm aware this is not a therapy session. And so I always want you to feel protected and safe in what we're talking about but in terms of our listeners you know they are often psychology students or psychology graduates pursuing professional psychology qualifications and so it would be a really nice opportunity for myself and for our listeners and watchers to kind of get a little bit of an understanding about what complex trauma is, what kind of things might create it. Would that be okay, Alexandra? Of course, and that is part of my mission in life now. So I'm very comfortable to share about it. So the crux of my issues, I now understand, has unfortunately been that I suffered emotional abuse from my father. And that, I believe, started before I was aware, because my first memory of him is being wary of him when I was about four.

Starting point is 00:06:37 But I did not realise what the issue was, because it's a bit like, you know, just being that frog in ever increasing hot water, you just don't know what you don't know. And you certainly don't know what normal looks like, or what good looks like, you just know what your environment is. And there's no doubt that my father loved me. But he was a very complicated character. And the best analogy I've come up with is that he was like Jekyll and Hyde, the Robert Louis Stevenson novel, where he could be really loving and caring one minute and then suddenly become really angry and difficult the next. And for a young child, I think not knowing what version of your caregiver is going to pitch up is It's really, really unnerving. But so that's that that is the crux of the story. But if you roll back 20 years, I didn't know any of this. I was a young adult. I already had a few mental health issues. So I had a spider phobia from pretty much as long as I can

Starting point is 00:07:39 remember, which was very bad. Even talking about them was difficult, let alone seeing one, which was way more traumatic. And then there were the early signs of OCD, which turned up when I was a teenager. Then, and it's interesting how these events kind of layer onto each other. The next thing that happened was that I unfortunately contracted pneumonia when I was 15. And I had to have very strong antibiotics to deal with the pneumonia, which absolutely categorically saved my life. Unfortunately, what they also did was basically strip my digestive system of all the good bacteria. And again, I know that now, I didn't know at the time what was going on. All I knew was that I got discharged from hospital with pneumonia a few days. I think it was Christmas Eve, actually. And then a couple of days later, I was in agony.

Starting point is 00:08:34 I couldn't eat anything. I literally could not eat anything. And nobody knew what was wrong with me. And to cut a long story short, I was in hospital for a number of weeks and it was an incredibly distressing experience and in particular distressing because unfortunately, it was a very busy time and I don't remember anyone really being kind to me. So I was on my own a lot of the time in a lot of pain. And secondly, nobody knew what was wrong with me. And I got some kind of misdiagnosis stuff coming in, which was really difficult to deal with as well. So basically, in a nutshell, I developed post-traumatic stress disorder from that and it really intensified my OCD. So that was after that I was being incredibly protective about germs. I mean, it's kind of natural in a way. I never want that to happen to me again. So I am just going to be very careful. But of course, it steps over into being a disorder when it kind of stops you functioning very well. So

Starting point is 00:09:30 I remember when I started my first jobs in London, it was things like touching door handles or buttons in the lift. And my particular favourite was having to shake people's hands. And I would actually try to actively avoid this by just holding bundles of stuff in my arms when I met people and just go, Oh, I'm sorry, I can't, I can't shake your hand, because I didn't want them to feel bad, because I knew it wasn't anything to do with them. It was my thing. But nonetheless, I didn't want to shake their hands. And I also carried antibacterial gel around with me everywhere. So that if I was forced into doing any of these things, I would just surreptitiously clean my hands afterwards to feel a bit better. And then the final bit of the story is that in my late 20s, and this is probably the most disturbing development,

Starting point is 00:10:15 I got full blown what I call responsibility OCD. So it was basically an action or inaction of mine harming someone else. And I mean, literally, I could hardly get to work. I had to walk to work and I could hardly get to work because I would see broken glass and think, oh, I better move that. Otherwise someone might fall over and or there's a banana skin. There's the classic banana skin or catching a stick or something in the corner of my eye and thinking, oh, is it a needle? Do I need to work? You know, all these things. It becomes all pervasive. And I know you'll know this. I get very frustrated when people say, oh, I'm just a little bit OCD. And I know they don't mean it

Starting point is 00:10:56 badly, but I'm like, OCD is not a little bit. OCD is like a rogue program in a computer that just takes over and stops the proper programs from running. So that, I suppose, is an overview of some of the issues that I faced. And yeah, so there we go. There's a starter for 10. Thank you. And, you know, I'm just really sorry that you kind of had to experience all of that. And it obviously led to you probably during treatment for your OCD and your PTSD from the hospital stay led you to kind of explore and realize other things. And I just want to touch on the point that you'd said about, you know, I've no doubt that my dad loved me, but I think this is something that crops up quite often with my

Starting point is 00:11:42 clients and those that my listeners will be working with as well it's like he loved you the best he could but that doesn't mean that you didn't deserve more you know as a little baby as a child as even as an adult you know you deserved something more compassionate more consistent more that helped you thrive yeah so you know you know, I don't want to discredit the love that you did feel from him, but actually, he did the best he could, but that wasn't good enough. No, and I'll tell you something, Marianne. So I'm an active Christian. I'm on a real journey about what forgiveness means in this particular instance, because it's really, really tough. I don't know whether I can

Starting point is 00:12:25 say he did the best he could in the circumstances he was in, which is a phrase that, you know, I just don't, I can't even tell you that. There were times latterly where he showed me, he actually admitted he was doing things intentionally when his guard was down. He actually died an alcoholic. So, but towards the end, he was, he always had an issue with alcohol but it became much worse and more pronounced towards the end and I remember once he was picking on me about something and I said surely you wouldn't make my life difficult in this way please please don't he was threatening to do something that would make make my life very tricky and he just looked at me and said what if I could get one over on you and I'll never forget I just thought my goodness you've

Starting point is 00:13:05 just been really honest about actually being a bit premeditated about this so yeah look it is very very tricky to deal with situations where people have caused you harm and kind of trying to figure out how much was unintentional and how much was intentional is is tricky. Did you ever get a sense of what his upbringing was like and whether this was totally errant and totally rogue and all about him or whether he was kind of carrying on intergenerational trauma? It's a really good question and actually one of the things when I finally became aware of what the issue was, consciously aware, I put it aside for so long. I remember my counsellor would kind of ask me about my parents because I think she had figured out very early on what the issue was in general terms I would just say oh no don't look over there why are you asking me about that stop stop asking

Starting point is 00:13:54 me about that and then eventually I became aware of what was going on and began to kind of fight against it actually a little bit anyway what what I'm struggling with now so my mother died 10 years ago and then my father died last year sadly after we had estranged because of his alcoholism and there was and were your parents together until your mum died yes yes they were um and but there's basically no one left there There are very, very few people who know about my past. There are some people who remember me as a child with my parents. And I've actually gone back to some of them and asked them, can I chat to you honestly, just to get your impressions. And basically, all of them in their different ways have verified my story. Obviously, they didn't

Starting point is 00:14:40 see my father behind closed doors in a family situation, but they definitely saw that difficult streak in him. And they had. So I've got that validation, which is helpful. But when it comes to going further back, there is no one I can talk to. What I can say is that I do not think that he had a difficult childhood. I mean, I think everyone has aspects. From what I've read, and I'm obviously not an expert in this, but when you come to narcissism, one of the backgrounds they talk about is where a child is put on a pedestal, and that that can cause those kind of narcissistic things to come, tendencies to come out. And I think with him, he was definitely the favourite

Starting point is 00:15:21 of the three children in his family. And that was demonstrated in a number of ways. So my gut feeling is that it was more that. And that's still an issue that he had to deal with, because my suspicion is that he was kind of told the world is your oyster, you're really special, you're going to go and do amazing things. And in fact, he did go and do really, you know, amazing things, went to university, I think the first in the family and all that kind of thing. I then have pieced together that he had quite a lot of disappointments, really quite difficult disappointments that came his way. When I was a toddler, actually, a lot of things that happened all at once. So I just piecing it together, my

Starting point is 00:15:59 my kind of working hypothesis, if you like, is that he felt that everything was brilliant in the world, and he could do what he wanted. And then he suddenly got shocks to the system, which showed him that wasn't true. And all of those things combined, were probably what led to some of his more problematic behaviour. I don't know if you think that sounds feasible. But yeah. Yeah, certainly sounds feasible. And often when we're working with people who have got a complex trauma diagnosis or complex trauma presentation, should we say, which is like a cluster of different can be really important that somebody's had some caregiver or someone in their life that's been a good or good enough figure have you had that and was that your mum or was she kind of complicated too so this is a really interesting question I again my mother was a beautiful wonderful person and she wanted children

Starting point is 00:17:07 more than anything in the world and that's what everyone who knows her from the past tells me she wanted you more than anything and I was the only child who survived there were quite a lot of miscarriages and difficulties I she was definitely an amazing mother in my younger years. The bit which I am coming to terms with now, which is harder, and this is not a reflection on her, but she was in a very difficult relationship with my father and she was so loyal to him. Like she was unbelievably loyal to him, but it took its toll on her, which I can now see.

Starting point is 00:17:42 So I've now realised, well, I physically lost my mother 10 years ago. Actually, I probably really lost her about 20 years ago. Because when I look back, she just changed. She became a bit of a shadow of her former self. And that is something I've only understood more recently. So yes, I think she was the foundation for making this easier for me than it might otherwise have been that's for sure and one of the ways I think that's played out is you know you often see children who've been through traumatic experiences in their childhood

Starting point is 00:18:17 they might then go and get a partner who is also difficult and displays similar problematic behaviors and that you know you can get into a bit of a vicious cycle I've questioned quite a lot why did I marry such a wonderful person which I did I mean he is just a wonderful loving husband we're coming up to our 20th wedding anniversary um he married me not knowing what he was getting himself into in terms of the family dynamic and got a bit of a shock but I think I think maybe that was a sign that I did have an understanding of what good looked like and I was actually seeking it and found it luckily which was a huge part of my recovery. Yeah I'm really pleased that you've been able to marry into a family that's predictable, consistent, safe, calm, respectful all the time

Starting point is 00:19:04 hopefully and that really makes such a difference I don't know if you went on to become a parent yourself but you know I think it just helps you really appreciate what it was that you didn't have yeah no you're absolutely right actually my husband and I chose not to have children and that's always quite a multifaceted decision but I will say if I'm being really honest I just knew I was not in a place to be a good mother and that that was part of it I could instinctively I just thought I'm all over the place how on earth if I can't look after myself now I'm not saying that would be the case for everyone I think everyone makes their own decisions for a bunch of reasons. I think I just

Starting point is 00:19:45 felt it. I also just didn't really want it. And I was able to be honest about that and go, well, if it's not really something I am wanting, and I think it's going to be a struggle, then maybe that's not a good thing to do. Whereas I think with other people, I can see, they think, well, this may be challenging, but it's something I really want. And therefore, it'll help me, that'll enable me to step up and do, you know, do new things and learn new things and new ways of being. So yeah, I think at the heart of it was probably I didn't really want it, and therefore decided it wasn't, it wasn't worth it for me, if that makes sense. It does. And I think, you know, with children, I think you need to really, really want it because, you know, they'll wreck your life.

Starting point is 00:20:26 I've got two of the beasts, you know, and I had them slightly later in life, probably not that late in terms of modern, but I had my first one when I was 31. And by that time I'd had such a wonderful life. You know, I'd been traveling. I was a professionally qualified psychologist. You know, I was married. I'd had many lovely adventures, you know, lots of funny, silly times, lots of serious times, lots of time to really work on myself. And I mindfully chose to burn all that to the ground and become a parent and do something different, you know, the next generation of my life. But you have to really, really want to do that. You can't really be a little bit unsure because it is such a big choice. You're absolutely right. Exactly. And unfortunately, by contrast, what I would say is I kind of feel like my 20s and my 30s were kind of stolen from me. I know that sounds a bit negative, but it really is how it felt that some of the physically best years of my life, I was just

Starting point is 00:21:29 so unhappy. And it's not that I didn't have nice times, but I certainly didn't feel like I could take on anything else. I could just about keep my career going. And I had a successful career, but it felt precarious to me because of everything that was going on in the background. Yeah, it sounds like you're already at capacity. And I just wanted to touch on what you'd said about your mum, really. And I think what you nicely described there is that sometimes for a really deep depression, it can occur because someone feels like they can't take control, or they're not able to take control. And so the other kind of variable like they can't take control or they're not able to take control and so the other kind of variable that they can do is to just kind of withdraw and stop caring and kind of

Starting point is 00:22:13 let everything happen around them um and you know I can't pathologize your mum nor would I want to from what you're saying it sounds like that's what happened so you kind of she retreated from you she retreated within herself in order to just carry on showing up in that in that home and in that relationship yeah I think that is a very good description of what happened and she did have depressive tendencies which you know were genetic they came from her father he served in the war he came back you know, were genetic, they came from her father, he served in the war, he came back, you know, very, very affected by that. And so there's no doubt I picked up a bunch of fear and anxiety as a young kid as well, just because that was kind of hanging around. And, you know, there were, there were just unfortunate times, and they were rare, they were very rare, but there were times where she would turn and blame me for things that were going wrong.

Starting point is 00:23:09 And it's like, oh, and at the time I didn't know what to do with them. I just felt like I'd been kind of slapped in the face. But now I look back and I realise it was it was just again, it was just a lashing out because she was trapped in a situation. But as I say, so loyal. And I think it was just a lashing out because she was trapped in a situation but as I say so loyal and I think it was a different age I think that is part of it as well which I have begun to come to terms with is just I think you know nowadays society is more accepting of couples splitting up and of there being a bit more empowerment to do that and perhaps a bit more support out there to do that not so much the case, you know, roll back a few

Starting point is 00:23:46 decades. So that's something else. Because sometimes I thought to myself, why didn't why didn't she leave him? Why didn't she protect me? And get me out of it? Couldn't she see how damaging it was? And again, I can't have answers to all these questions, which is quite hard. But it is just, I think for me, you'll know with OCD, a lot of it is about certainty. You want to have certainty about things. I want to, you know, in my case, I want to be sure that I'm safe and that everyone else is safe. With coming to terms with my past, I've had to realise I cannot have certainty. And I have to come to peace with that and get the best possible understanding I can to help me move forward without getting obsessed about all the

Starting point is 00:24:25 details that I can't know about. Yeah, absolutely. And thinking about what is kind of complex post-traumatic stress disorder, what I find is that with many of the clients I work with, they don't even necessarily realize they've had a traumatic childhood. Because actually, when we look at kind of the markers for it, the points add up quite quickly for things that might look like quite inconsequential things as standalone. Some of them are inconseququential some of them are not obviously um but people might say to me I've always just felt a bit anxious unsafe depressed I think it's just me like you know it's just my fault like I don't know why I've always been this way and actually when we come to look at their experiences you know if we're looking at a kind of a rough and ready measure like the adverse childhood experiences scale the ACE scale it's looking at 10 key questions they might be

Starting point is 00:25:31 scoring six or seven on the scale with the threshold for indicative CPTSD being four and when you're able to just explain that to them it it can be like light and day, you know, in terms of that's not the right term, is it? What's the term? Night and day? Night and day. Night and day. We'll leave that in just to show that we're human. You know, it's it can be transformational for them. Just that one recognition that actually, oh, there's a reason why I feel like I do. And actually, this makes a lot of sense for the way that I feel, and for then helping them feel

Starting point is 00:26:12 more compassion for their younger self, who they might well have been kind of dragging around with them hating, actually, and loathing what their experiences were like and blaming them for their experiences like how's that been for you again a masterful explanation there Marianne I mean I think for me I was just in rock solid denial so if someone including my count so I went to my counsellor for my OCD because I with the responsibility OCD I literally thought I was losing my mind and on top of that I already had the hygiene OCD spider phobia I haven't even mentioned to you the fact that I have chronic insomnia and have done all my adult life still that's probably the longest lasting that's still with me now and it'd be interesting to see how that evolves but I just thought I was going mad

Starting point is 00:27:04 and I thought it was my fault I just thought I'm a crazy person. I don't know what else to say. And she obviously knew that she couldn't push me too far. The very interesting fact was, my very first married Christmas, my husband, my husband watched my father blow up at me and blame me for something in a horrible argument. He always used to blow up just before Christmas. And then we all had to recover because my mother loved Christmas. And so we all had to make it work. And it was hideous. And apparently, and I don't even remember this, after my father had gone away and my husband was just sitting there stunned, thinking, what was that? I said to him, I know this is wrong. I know it's not healthy, but I have to stick around for my mother. I cannot leave her. Now, after that,

Starting point is 00:27:53 apparently, I didn't say anything for years. And in fact, my husband then went to see my counsellor as well. She was actually our minister at our church. And he apparently talked to her at one point about wanting to just take me out of the situation because he could see how damaging it was. Every time I went back, it's like I was taking another step back, even if I may have taken some tentative steps forward in the meantime. And she just apparently said to him, if you try to pull her out too soon, if you force her into making a choice when she's not ready, she may make the choice you're not expecting. And that may just be completely, you know, not's not ready she may make the choice you're not expecting and that

Starting point is 00:28:25 may just be completely you know not what actually what she wants in the long term either but she might pick her parents so I was just in total denial and it was a very gentle process but I think in the end I would say I he began to just do more and more outrageous things and some of it was brought on by my mother's illness. She had cancer and it was, it was, you know, as these things are not pleasant at all. And it's understandable that we would find that difficult, but he actually drove me out of the house just before midnight on Christmas Eve, the year she had had her operation. I mean, I literally, I was walking down a dark road in the middle of nowhere in Scotland with nowhere to go. My husband was with his with his family.

Starting point is 00:29:09 And I thought I wasn't going back. And then my father eventually picked me up in the car. We didn't say anything, just drove back. And I will never forget. We got to the driveway, he stopped the car. And he looked at me and he said, he said well Alexandra are you ready to give in yet and I just thought I can't believe you actually came to get me you saw that I was so badly affected that I actually walked out of the house and you're asking me if I'm ready to give in and I said no and that was a profound moment for me I was like I don't care if Christmas is messed up this year I am not giving in on this ridiculous argument that you have created out of nowhere. So we went into the house. I went to my room thinking, goodness knows where this is now headed. And eventually my mum came and knocked on the door and said, your father would like to see you. And I said, really? And went downstairs and suddenly I found myself sitting on his knee.

Starting point is 00:29:58 I'm way too old for that now, but I'm sitting on his knee and he's saying, Alexandra, you do know that I love you, don't you? And my mother, in one of her wonderful moments of clarity, just looked at him and said, I don't think she does know that right now, to be honest. And I tell that story just to say his behaviour got worse as I got older. I don't think he could cope with me being an independent human being who voiced my own opinions if they were not you know similar to his and when he became more extreme and as I was growing in confidence and had my husband and began to see other models I just began to say no and over time that got to a point where I could say that I was my own human being and could see that that behavior was not accurate not not good not not healthy and

Starting point is 00:30:44 not really what a father should be doing with his child so yeah and you know when we're parents or even I don't know I care about everybody I like I want everyone to be safe I don't want you to be vulnerable walking alone in the dark at midnight on Christmas Eve like I don't want that for anybody, let alone my own children, you know, to think that that's happening or happened and people are knowingly doing that. It's just, you know, it's just horrendous, isn't it? Yeah, it's tough to look back on. And it's been really interesting, actually, as I have decided to talk about my story and to share it to to raise awareness because I still do not believe that emotional abuse is as well understood as other forms of abuse I mean

Starting point is 00:31:31 you're absolutely correct the ACE study shows how you know how difficult these different experiences are for children and yet I still think there's a difference in perception in people's minds and sometimes they just think oh well just toughen up it's uh it's just words what are you worrying about and it's like so much more complicated than that so I've started to to tell share my story and I'll be honest with you there are the really supportive people there are then the people who just don't say anything to me and they're just not comfortable to say anything and then I've had a few people actually criticize it which has been fascinating but I am at least in a strong enough place now I can say well fine you can hold that and they're just not comfortable to say anything. And then I've had a few people actually criticise it, which has been fascinating, but I am at least in a strong enough place now that I can say, well, fine,

Starting point is 00:32:08 you can hold that view if you want to, but I am doing this not to shame my father. I, you know, I'm not doing it for that reason. I'm doing it because there's no other family member to be distressed by what I'm saying. That there's, you know, there are no siblings, there are no other close family members. So I am actually at liberty to tell this story honestly and I think you know I already have proof that people are

Starting point is 00:32:29 coming to me and saying this is really valuable um so that that's that's kind of the essence of why I'm doing it yeah and more and more podcasts and kind of you know media appearances that you get you know it gives people more and more opportunity to really see what this has been like and what this is like. I understand your dad was reasonably high profile as well. Yeah, he was a member of parliament for nearly 20 years. So and I think it's really interesting because I think he was kind of drawn to that kind of career because, you know, there's a bit of there's a lot of antagonism there.

Starting point is 00:33:05 It's just, I'm not saying by the way that all MPs are like that. I've actually met quite a lot of members of parliament because as I was growing up, it was the environment I was in. And there are some really amazing people who want to serve us and, you know, help lead the country. But I do think that element of antagonism is just an interesting one um and I I think he thrived on it to be honest uh to some extent and um yeah I'm not sure he wasn't ever minister for children no no he did not become a minister uh but all right so you know I think it's been a really illuminating conversation. I feel like it probably could have been two or three podcast episodes to really, you know, do this topic justice. But tell us a little bit about your book.

Starting point is 00:33:56 Oh, thank you. So, well, I've obviously told you a little bit about Christmas being difficult for me. And I think that is a story you hear replicated quite a lot because families are thrown together. And Christmas, therefore, becomes a bit of a flash point if there are family difficulties. My mother loved Christmas. I loved it, all the beautiful stuff. But I got to the point where because all of these difficult things had happened year after year after year, I just retreated from it altogether and this was round about the time I estranged from my father as well where the relationship with him was kind of getting to the point where it was falling over and there was the year I just didn't did nothing we had no tree we had no presents we didn't visit family it was just my husband me husband and me

Starting point is 00:34:40 in our house not doing Christmas and in fact Christmas Day, we just went out for a walk on a rather wet Scottish day to a rather wet Scottish waterfall, just to do something. So the next year, I had estranged from my father by that point. And I remember just thinking, do I want to have lost this thing forever because of what happened to me in the past? Well, no, I don't. I want to reclaim it, hence the title of the book Reclaiming Christmas and I did an active experiment over about six weeks and I did all sorts of uh all sorts of different well-being techniques and healing techniques focusing on different aspects so for example um around the mind I was thinking about affirmations now positive affirmations can be done really badly and I um with my scientific background I have quite a I care a lot about evidence and how these things are used so for me for example just saying I am not fearful I can do and I'm brave enough to do

Starting point is 00:35:37 anything I want was just not true because fear has been such a core aspect of my life so it's more about saying I am becoming less fearful I am learning to become you know words like that so the mind the emotions the body and the spirit just finding different ways to yeah I was just going to interject because you've really nicely given us an in to OCD as well so with OCD you might have like a magic thought or phrase or kind of action that calms whatever it is that, you know, that makes it okay. And that, that almost that, that, that affirmation almost could have been that like, I'm safe, I'm okay, like, but actually, that loses its potency over time, doesn't it? And then you kind of need to ramp it up.

Starting point is 00:36:21 Yeah. And I think, as I say, for me, with with me with affirmations it's a bit like um have a statement that is stretching you but not stretching you so that you break or a bit like a muscle you might pull your muscle if you try to stretch too far and so I the way I try and do it with myself and with clients is just you know you're stretching yourself more and more over time and that gets you to a stronger position so um, and yeah, I just, I did, to give you the inside scoop, I did reclaim my Christmas. I now do love it again, but it did require being quite intentional and things like when bad memories came back to me, what did I do with that? How did I deal with that? So it wasn't all just fun and games. There was an element of how do I hold space?

Starting point is 00:37:05 I remember one day in my journal, and journaling has become very important to me, I just did a huge, great scribble on the page in the run-up to Christmas. It wasn't even words. It was just a massive scribble. And I'm really quite, I like my journal and I treat it quite well and I felt really bad,

Starting point is 00:37:21 but I just had to get it out. There were different ways, obviously, of expressing our emotions safely, but I just had to get it out. There are different ways, obviously, of expressing our emotions safely, but also being honest with ourselves as well. Absolutely. Where can people get the book if they would like to? I'll obviously pop a link in the show notes, but if they want to head straight there,

Starting point is 00:37:36 where can they get hold of a copy? So it's on Amazon. You can get paperback or Kindle, or I even recorded an audio book version upstairs in a little cupboard. So you've got all the options if you want it. Amazing. And I think just before we started, you were saying that you've got a little sibling for your book coming along as well. Could you tell us a little bit about that one? Yes, thank you so much. So my second book is

Starting point is 00:38:01 in its early stages. It hasn't got a title yet, but effectively it's about sing after the storm. And the idea is how do you find your voice? How do you find your song and then sing it with gusto after you've been through a storm? And I think particularly for a lot of us, it's not just one storm, it's kind of multiple storms that one goes through and it can leave one a bit disorientated, a bit small, you know, all of those things. So my work and that book is going to be all about how do we make that journey, not just to get out of the storm in one piece, but then to grow positively afterwards. So yes, I'm working on that now. And if you're interested, you can head over to my website to have a little poke around and that's damselnotindistress.co.uk

Starting point is 00:38:45 okay lovely can we also follow you on socials somewhere as well Alexandra yes I am on you can find me on Facebook and Instagram I can give you the details and we can pop them underneath the variations on damsel not in distress basically okay perfect you're not you're not on LinkedInin though i love linkedin yes i actually am i don't think about it so much these days because i'm not so much in the in the corporate space but i'm still there so okay so you're alexandra walker on linkedin that's right perfect i'll make sure that i connect and we'll share all of your details if you ping those over to me we can make sure that they're all in the show notes and magically on screen as well for people that are watching on youtube thank you so much for your time and helping

Starting point is 00:39:28 illuminate our audience about kind of about your experiences but also kind of the more wider concepts involved in emotional abuse in emotional abuse and complex trauma you're so welcome it's been a pleasure to be here thank you marianne. Oh, thank you so much to our guest for today, Alexandra. Please do go and connect with her. And if you'd like to know more about her story, please do consider checking out her book, Reclaiming Christmas. What has this evoked for you? I would love to know what you think to it. Come and let me know in the Aspiring Psychologist community on Facebook, which is also the home of Marianne's Mindset and Motivation sessions. I want to be on your team. I want to help you keep striving for whatever professional

Starting point is 00:40:18 qualification route it is that you want to achieve. Please, with that in mind, do come and connect and follow with me over on my social channels. I am Dr. Marianne Trent, everywhere that you could hope to imagine. And if you're watching this on YouTube, please do like, subscribe, share your favorite episodes with your friends. That would be so appreciated. And if you're listening to this as an MP3, please do take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcasts and to give me a rating. And if you're listening to this as an MP3, please do take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcasts and to give me a rating. And if you could consider following the show, that would be so, so appreciated. And if you'd like to know more about career routes to clinical psychology or career routes to professional psychology, please check out the Aspiring Psychologist

Starting point is 00:41:05 Collective book, the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. And if you're ready for the next step, the Aspiring Psychologist membership. And come and download your free 10-page psychology success guide, which you can do by going to my website, www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk, and then looking at the free resources tab at the top. You can be the first to know that there is going to be a change in my website. So there's going to be a new home for you, my wonderful, aspiring psychologists, and then a separate page for my media work and one-to-one so as soon as I have information about that you will be the first to know thank you so much for being part of my world wishing you well with whatever stage of your career you're at if you've got specific requests

Starting point is 00:41:56 for podcast episodes or content you'd like me to cover please don't be a stranger let me know thank you so much for being part of my world and i'll look forward to catching up with you for our next episode of the podcast which will be available for youtube from 10 a.m on saturdays and for the mp3 version 6 a.m on mondays take care if you're looking to become a psychologist then let this be your guide with this podcast at your side you'll be on your way to being qualified it's the aspiring psychologist with dr marianne my name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner I read the clinical psychologist collective book I found it really interesting about all the different stories

Starting point is 00:43:01 and how people got to become a clinical psychologist it just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself so if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay but trust me you will not put the book down once you start.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Understanding OCD and complex trauma with Alexandra Walker

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