The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - What Does an Educational Psychologist Actually Do? School Examples

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

Teachers are burning out. Classrooms are becoming harder to manage. And children are struggling to regulate their emotions in school. In this episode, clinical psychologist Dr Marianne Trent speaks with educational psychologist Dr Adam McCartney about what educational psychologists actually do in schools - and how psychological thinking can help transform behaviour, emotional regulation and staff wellbeing across entire school systems. Using real case studies from UK schools, we explore classroom behaviour challenges, teacher burnout, SEND pressures and practical emotional regulation strategies that help children and teachers thrive. Whether you're an aspiring psychologist, teacher, SEN professional, or simply curious about how schools support children's emotional wellbeing, this episode provides a powerful look at psychology in action.Useful Book Mentioned in the Podcast: Gabor Mate, Hold on to your kids: https://amzn.to/4uhX30iHighlights00:00 Why teacher burnout and behaviour challenges are rising in schools01:21 What educational psychologists actually do in schools04:27 Case study: a school system in crisis and how psychology helped stabilise it06:08 Why role confusion in school staff fuels burnout and conflict09:59 Supporting distressed pupils while stabilising the wider school system13:04 The power of systemic thinking in educational psychology14:38 Why reflective practice is essential for teachers and school leaders17:30 Case study: a “difficult” Year 4 class and emotional regulation19:11 Observing classrooms and understanding teacher dynamics22:14 Teaching emotional literacy through the classroom “corners” strategy25:23 Why teacher relationships regulate children’s nervous systems29:04 Why children sometimes seek attention from teachers31:59 Doing better when we know better in education32:03 What education might look like in the age of AI33:32 Why creativity, connection and collaboration will remain essential skillsLinks:Listen to Adam's Podcast, Between Two Psychs: https://www.dradammccartney.com/betweentwopsychs📲 Connect with Dr Adam McCartney here:https://www.dradammccartney.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-mccartney-afbpss-647ab1221/https://www.instagram.com/dradammcartney/🫶 To join my podcast membership to get early access to episodes and / or exclusive weekly content head to: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support or to the Apple Podcasts App: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-aspiring-psychologist-podcast/id1605628278 or to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwjrIP_jatiqlAivJE2mgQ/join📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk/membership🖥️ Check out my short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk/online-coursesAsk Marianne your most pressing psychology career question and she will send you a FREE bespoke reply! Grab your free psychology success guide here and fill in the most pressing concern box: https://www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk (scroll to the bottom of the page)✍️ Get your FREE Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.aspiring-psychologist.co.uk/free-resources📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent💬 To join my free Facebook group and discuss your thoughts on this episode and more: https://www.facebook.com/groups/aspiringpsychologistcommunityLike, Comment, Subscribe & get involved:If you enjoy the podcast, please do subscribe and rate and review episodes.Hashtags: #aspiringpsychologist #dclinpsy #psychology #assistantpsychologist #psychologycareers #podcast #psychologypodcast #clinicalpsychologist #mentalhealth #traineeclinicalpsychologist #clinicalpsychology #drmariannetrent #mentalhealthprofessional #gettingqualified #mentalhealthprofessionals #traineepwp #mdt #qualifiedpsychologist #traineepsychologist #aspiringpsychologists #wellbeing

Teachers are burning out. Children are struggling to regulate and increasingly whole systems are being pushed to breaking point. But when things go wrong in schools, we often zoom in on individual children instead of asking what's going on around them. I'm Dr. Mariana qualified clinical psychologist and today I'm joined by Dr. Adam McCartney, an educational psychologist who works with schools at a systemic level. Together we explore how educational psychologists actually think about behaviour, burnout and regulation. and why supporting adults is often the key to supporting children. We're using case study examples to unpack what works, what doesn't, and how change really happens.

Hope you find it so useful if you do like and subscribe for more. Hi, welcome along to the show. I'm joined today by Dr. Adam McCartney, who is an educational child and community psychologist to give him his full title. Welcome, Adam. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. chatting in the DMs, so to speak, for what seems like many a year. And we will come on to think about you and your podcast and the work that you do later in the show. But for now, could you

give us a little bit of an overview about what an Ed Syke does, if that's okay? An Ed Sykes job is a bit like a piece of string, how long you wanted to be. We have in recent years been almost shoehorned into this assessment process, mostly due to the S-A-N-D crisis. So we do a lot of assessments, statutory assessments. So anyone listening is probably watch the news at some point. There's been a crisis within S-E-N-D. My belief is that we are much more proficient

if we get to tap into how we see the role. And one of the key things for me is working systemically. So I've spent the last four years trying to get that within schools and hopefully talk about that today. And I believe the power of educational psychology comes when we work through the school systems and the adults that occupy those systems. Amazing. Thank you. I'm also reminded we had an earlier episode on the podcast where we were joined by another

child and educational psychologist, Dr. Michelle McDowell. So if anybody wants more of an overview about kind of career journeys and, you know, what that all looks like, check that out at the end of this episode. But today we thought it would be really nice to kind of build on a similar concept to an episode I did with Dr. Joe about occupational and organizational psychologists, where we took more of a kind of vignette approach. So that people are really getting a feel for kind of the nuts and bolts of the kind of problems that an educational psychologist might come up with and how you think creatively to solve those. So you have a lovely Northern Irish accent, but you actually do practice and work in England. And we're talking about kind of state schools, I think I'm right in saying, in England. And so anything we speak about in terms of, you know, standard of education, anything like that,

that is we're speaking from an English school perspective and narrative. I think I'm right in saying that you work with both primary and secondary schools, but actually, you know, you work up to 25 years of age. So you're thinking quite holistically about someone's education as well. Is that right, Adam? That's absolutely right. We try to think about the child's journey right into adulthood. And quite often you can't just make that cut off at 19 and say,

okay, you're all ready for it. Sometimes you need an extra bit of probation. And that's why we work with people right up to 25 if they need the support. Amazing. And actually when we think about our brain development, you know, our brain isn't kind of considered complete until we've got our full frontal load capacity, which I believe kind of happens around age 25.

So I love that you, you know, you're all geared up to be able to support people until that age. You know, I was very much a different person at age 18 than I was 25. And the way that I thought and interacted with the world and education was different as well. So with no further ado, shall we kind of tackle our first thing? yet. Yes, please. A primary school experiencing acute instability. The head teacher had left suddenly,

early career teachers were close to resigning. Senior leaders were holding risk rather than leading, and teaching assistants were angry and disengaged after feeling consistently undervalued. Moral was visibly fractured. At the centre of this was the perception that the needs of two boys with significant emotional needs, who had become positioned implicitly as the problem. Their distress was being absorbed by the whole system, creating fear, resentment and burnout. Okay, so in this example case study, how would an educational psychologist begin to tackle this problem, Adam?

It's a, this is one of the trickier problems that an educational psychologist will come across because it's not very often you see a full school system in crisis. You'll see aspects of the system in crisis. And what was interesting for me was, It was rooted in these two boys as being the issue. And I simply asked, can I have a look at the whole school? Just let me walk around and talk to people.

Because I had a suspicion that's, you know, a head teacher doesn't suddenly just leave unless something's gone awry. And thankfully, they were okay with that. And so what I did is I took a holistic approach. It was like these systems, these different classrooms, although they may not talk to each all the time, they're having an impact on the resources available. And you said in the vignette there,

it was visible that TAs were distressed and it was having an impact on them. And they would move around the most within a school. And my first clue was whenever I was walking through the hall and I seen someone crying, that doesn't usually happen day to day. You know, you might get stressed, but you don't get tears.

So after speaking with them and helping them come around, I got my first nugget. It's like, okay, people are feeling like they have to work outside the remit. People are feeling like they have to work outside their skill zone. So I then went and spoke with each of the teachers, right from reception, right through the year six, and started to unpick what was going on for them. Why was this happening? And there was a few themes that came from that. One of the key themes was several of the teachers felt their skill set weren't being used.

most notably there was one teacher who had a really strong background in supporting social emotional mental health she she worked in a prue a pupil referral unit but she was kind of like left to the sidelines because her class didn't cause disruption but they didn't invite her out in order to support the teachers who were struggling and so she felt undervalued and then you had a senko you know special educational needs coordinator trying to try to to hold everything together and trying to find some way to get the teachers on board to support these two boys and it wasn't happening and then you had the TA's you know different levels of skill set different you know some would see themselves as I work with the more able students in order to get them to be the high achievers and others who say I work with those who are emotionally vulnerable taking that more pastoral role and it became quite obvious that the role was not clear And that bred resentment. And some felt that they were having to step into the teacher role without any preparation

or others were feeling like my skill set isn't being valued here. Then I went and spoke with some of the senior leaders. And they were going, I'm senior leader by name. I don't actually do anything differently than the other teachers. But I would like to. And I remember one of the teachers spoke to him about 17 years of experience. It's not ridiculous. Like I was like, surely you being a great position to mentor people and how he set up classrooms and things like that.

He's like, I would love to do that. And then we had some teachers who were just on the verge of burnout and disengaged. There was a few nuggets of light in there. You know, there was one teacher who still had the passion for creativity and she had had her children doing all different sorts of things within their learning journey. The thing it took me the most was there was a group of kids outside. drawing on the windows. I thought, oh, what's going on over there? They were doing maths. And I thought, that's brilliant. She's found a way to make it more fun and engaging for them. And so she was very passionate about her role. And then I spoke with, well, the acting head at

that point, who was very concerned about the impact on the community, about the role these two boys, because they got out into the community. These two boys were seen as the problem. And I first thought that came to myself is you can't fix a system in crisis without some stability. And it was a very hard decision that, I mean, I say this in collaboration, but I don't think the school would have acted without my blessing. And it was to take those two boys out and do an intensive pastoral support. So they ended up being taught outside the classroom, which as an educational psychologist is really hard because we really live in Brewery, breathe inclusion, but in order to get back to that point, they had to come out so the teachers could have a bit of respite and stabilize that system. And then it was about using what resources

were available to upskill everyone and steady the ship. So the first thing was get those boys sorted, have two skilled practitioners working with them. One was a very skilled teaching assistant in pastoral support and the other was the Senko herself. which is a big deviation from her role because she'd normally be trying to sort of EHCPs and review cycles. And I had a very tricky conversation with her. Like, if you want to get back to normality, you need to change your role in the short term. And then we looked at the TAs. And it was a case that they weren't having a space for reflective practice.

They were very much going from crisis point to other crisis point and just trying to do the best that they could. do. And with the blessing of the acting head teacher, I said, I need some space with these people to have that reflective practice with a skilled practitioner who they can talk to about what they're doing day to day and the impact it has on the children, which meant that then suddenly the senior leader who didn't have a role now had a space to give his expertise and listen to those coming through the pipeline. And so he felt like he was being validated in his space and his practice. And then, you know, the teacher that I told you who worked in the Prue, I said, you need to find some way of helping her feel like she matters in the system. And what they ended up doing was

making her a senior leader. And I thought, that's a big jump from, you know, you're sitting in corner to do not much to suddenly she she was writing policies and things like that and I went back and reviewed the case and everyone now don't get me wrong there are still issues but everyone was in a better place the Senko looks visibly more relaxed the the teacher who did the Prue work was just you know beaming because although she had extra responsibilities she got the muscle her creativity stuff. The senior leader that I mentioned, he was enjoying his supervision role. And the other teachers just felt like everything was taken care of.

Now, those boys still had issues. And those issues, they didn't go away. But they were in a much better place and they were starting to come back into the classroom. And from my point of view, I felt like that was a huge win. because one, I didn't actually do any direct assessment work. I only worked through the people. And what I did was I have my own consultation approach. It's called PIMS, which is psychologically informed management systems.

And a key aspect of that is focusing on roles. And I was like, how does your role fit within this wider system? How does it lead towards what is considered a shared goal? The shared goal in this case was creating a steady environment for education. and through consultation, I felt like I was able to empower everybody to do something small and meaningful to steady the ship. And for me, that is the power of educational psychology. Absolutely. And you've so beautifully illustrated, actually, I think the ecosystem of a school and how often our problem children can just be.

the, almost the product of a, of a system that just isn't thriving. And I think what I was picturing is that everybody, other than the lovely teacher who had people drawing on windows, and I would be like, I hope my child gets them as a teacher this year. But other than them, everyone else had had their drive just really diminished, really dipped, you know, if we're thinking about kind of compassion-focused therapy theory, like their drive was absent and it was all just, you know, they're just flooded in kind of, you know, powerlessness and not able to feel sense of satisfaction. And I think that's really, really important, especially when we're looking at careers where people are not being enumerated as much as they probably deserve. And so you need, I think, to be able to get that sense of job satisfaction.

Otherwise, you quickly, you head towards burnout, don't you, Adam? Very much so. and anyone who keeps an eye on the educational news knows that burnout is a really prevalent factor. You know, there was some recent stats that said that 80% of head teachers experience significant stress. And about 60 of those are 60% of those think about, am I burning out? And in my experience, the head teacher, once you see that happening in the head teacher, it filters into the rest of the staff team then. And so, you know, in our in our conversations within educational psychology, there's a big talk about the need for supervision for head teachers at least, designated safeguarding leads and teachers as a whole.

Personally, I think anyone who has a professional background needs some sort of reflective space because we're all problem solvers. And in order to be a decent problem solver, you have to know yourself and you have to know what you're about. and I think education has been neglected for a long time. Sure, you know, you're being a clinical psychologist, it's prevalent throughout the NHS that you get decent clinical supervision. And I don't see why education needs to be different from that. I work with some very good community organizations around supervision, particularly for head teachers.

And we're trying to get a research project off the ground. And what we're focusing on is that impact of, does the well-being of a head teacher, translate into the well-being of the school system. Preliminary evidence says yes it does. Definitely. And it's making me reflect that on times when I've kind of stepped in when people have been on long-term sick and I've offered, you know, ad hoc supervision to kind of different disciplines in teams.

And they've always just been like, oh my God, this is amazing. Like why haven't I been having this before? It's that level of attumement. It's that level of of safe space. It's not just case supervision, you know, that so much of supervision can be about. It's about supporting that person optimally. And I think, yeah, I think you're right. Everybody in every job where you're kind of working to support others, where that has an impact on you personally and professionally would really benefit from reflective practice spaces. So well done for curating and creating that space for them. And that will, shape them. You know, they may go on to become qualified teachers themselves or they might just stay

long term in a school, you know, and that will become part of their culture and they will prioritize that for other people as well. So, you know, it sounds like a great piece of kind of input there. Well done. Thank you very much. It was a very rewarding piece of work. Perfect. Shall we, with no further ado, have a look at our second case study? Yes, please. Let's look at the second one. A large primary school requested support for a year four cohort that staff described as constantly unsettled. Teachers were reporting high levels of low level disruption, frequent peer conflict, poor attention and escalating anxiety across the class. Lunch times were particularly difficult with minor disagreements quickly turning into tears, arguments or withdrawal. Staff felt stuck. They were spending increasing amounts of time

managing behaviour rather than teaching, and several described feeling ineffective and frustrated despite strong classroom practice. There was a growing sense that nothing works and concerned that the class was becoming labelled as difficult. So Adam, let's imagine this has come in to you across your desk. What are you going to be doing with this school, with this class? This is one that I love getting into because one, it still feeds into the systemic work that I alluded to in the first vignette, although it's not as high pressure in. terms of how they turn around a full system. And it allows you, we just spoke about supervision, it allows you almost to do an intervention through a reflective space. So what I often do in this

scenario is I work with the teacher after observing their lesson. So typically, someone might correct me on this, but typically an educational psychologist, if they're going into doing an assessment on a child, you might spend 15 to 20 minutes observing a child. The first thing I do is spend an hour, observing this class to get a feel for what the transitions look like, what the atmosphere is like, what the teacher is like across that hour span, you know, are they pretty chill the whole time? Is there a flare-ups of behaviours and how they respond to it? What is the dynamics between the teaching assistants and the teacher? And what sort of communication methods are they using?

Do they rely on verbal communication? Do they rely on lots of little structured interventions or transitions? or do they rely heavily on visual communication, things like PowerPoints and timers and visual timetables, just to get a feel for it, not from a judgmental point of view. Different classes need different things. And then I would take the teacher out, assuming that they can get supply teaching in place, and I would have a really in-depth conversation with them. And one of the frameworks I use within the PIMS model that I told you about is how to empower a teacher.

So we look at control, role and identity. And we start off with identity because that is the journey of how you became a teacher. So it's simple questions of what made you get into teaching? What was your journey like? Did you enjoy your teaching practice? Did you have many opportunities for reflective practice or we kind of thrown in the deep end? We know nowadays that there's about four or five different mainstream journeys into teaching. Most teachers I speak to go through the PGCSE.

PGCE route. And then there's also direct school, I think it's called, brought in by Michael Gove. And then you've got the traditional, I'm going to go and get a university degree, a teaching introduction. And those different journeys have different benefits and strengths and skill sets. And I get them to reflect on what they're really good at. What do you find that's strong about your role as a teacher? and what do you struggle with?

Now, most teachers who go through the fast track or faster track scenarios tend to struggle with the S-E-N-D side of things because you have to get into the mindset of a student who doesn't process information typically. And that's difficult, especially if you don't have, you know, in my case, I've got over 15 years of psychological background.

I want to ask you, Marion, how much you've got, just to be polite. and the impact that can have on one's ability to problem solve can be profound. Again, we said about supervision. Most teachers don't get the opportunity for high quality supervision. So they don't get to reflect on their skills as a problem solver. So this is the first space to do that. So that's the identity element.

And then the role is, what should you be doing? Like, should you be doing something with these kids who struggle to process information? or is it someone else's problem? And once you start to go through that journey and get them to think about, actually, maybe I should be doing something with them and then they might be able to stay in the classroom rather than deferring to the Senko

or the head teacher or the assistant's head, they start to think about, okay, if I restructure the class, if restructure the seating plan, I can start to work with these kids. One of the simplest ways to do, because people tend to absorb psychological information better through experience, is I help them set up a transition plan. One of the things I do is I've adapted the zones of regulation for a whole class approach.

And I say to them, this is going to take up a lot of time, but it's a very, very useful method for understanding the emotional literacy and the emotional needs of your class. and it's where you put four different colors on the corner of the room, assuming you don't have a triangular room, but you put four different colors on. And green is for those children who feel regulated and ready for the next learning topic. Yellow is for those who are feeling a bit silly or a bit,

not dysregulated, but on the verge of it and blue is for those who are feeling a bit low mood. And red, this is the key bit. Red is for those who are on the verge of dysregulation or anger. And I say to the teacher, okay, you have independent strategies for yellow, blue and green. So green is usually something curriculum based. I'm going to talk about history with a peer. I'm going to read a book that's curriculum based.

You know, something that's no demand, but slightly enjoyable. And then yellow and blue are century based or emotional literacy based. So it might be about talking about how they feel. to a trusted peer or to a TA or teaching assistant who's available. Or it might be, I'm going to do some wall sets. I'm going to do some wall pushes or I'm going to do something that's not distracting, but century regulating. And then I'm the red one, which is for those kids who are struggling to stay regulated,

they sit with the teacher and it has to be the teacher. The unfortunate thing about classrooms is every child knows the hierarchy of the classroom. They know the teacher is the leader of the classroom. And if the top of the classroom, the leader, cares about you, you're more likely to stay regulated throughout today. And this is the first thing it shows them. It's like, I care about you. I'm giving you time. They sit and talk to me.

And that teacher learns to give them the words and how to regulate. They're also sitting with them. And we know the adults calm helps the child be calm. and I say to teachers, you've got to accept your role as the third parent. Other than mommy and dad, typically mommy and daddy, you're the person they spend the most time with during the week. Usually, obviously there's exceptions. And not only that, that child then feels regulated and accepted and cared for, but the other children who are a little bit wobbly, but not to the point with the disruptive, say to them, themselves, that teacher cares about all of us because he or she is taking the time for the most

tricky student. If I become the most tricky student, I know they will take care of me. And those things have soft, what we call soft systems impact, whereby they filter out and everybody's mood just starts to calm down. And it's heavy investment in the beginning, but as time moves on, that teacher, those transitions become quicker. And the teacher gets more and more back of the teaching time that they crave. And the best thing about this, I've done this across about 10 to 15 schools now. And about third of them are going through the Ofsted window. And they've all come back as this was highlighted as good psychological practice that improves emotional literacy.

So anyone listening who's a teacher, Offstead loves this stuff. So if nothing else, at least it gives you that. I love that. So the kids are physically moving around to those different coloured corners at the end of, at the end of a task or activity. So, you know, thinking about whether you've done, you know, your book, your group discussion and then literally at the end of every activity you're saying, right, it's time for our corners. Let's pick where we're at. Is that how it works practically? And how long, you know, if they're about to go out to break, how long do you give that, Adam? So it again is one of those things that's along as a piece of string. The first thing they have to do is they have to teach them the system. So the teacher has to dedicate time to be like, this is how we're going to do our transitions. And they have to pick the best time to do that.

And what I said in is you do the transition for a cognitive load change or an environmental change. So an environmental change is coming in from break time, as you alluded to. A load change is when you're going from, say, English to maths, because for some kids, that's an easy transition. For others, that's the end of the world because they absolutely hate maths and they need some check-in. And as time goes on, you can usually, you might be able to drop some of the cognitive load changes. Like going from maths to art might not be a big deal for the class, so they go, well, it's fine, we can drop that one. But you will learn that over time. If you do it until the kid, the last kid who sits at red, so say, for

three children are sitting with the teacher. Once that third kid is ready to return to the lesson, then the transition's over. That's the rule. And that can be difficult for some teachers to swallow because they're thinking, I'm falling further and further behind with the curriculum. The sad reality is you're going to fall further and further behind with the curriculum.

If you don't do this, because this is a time investment, it's not a quick fix. You're looking to the spring and summer terms and theory that you will get that time back and your teaching will be much more on point for lack of a better term. And that's how you manage the transitions. I would love to be a fly on the wool for one of these kind of, yeah, one of these corner exercises. It sounds so powerful. In thinking a little bit about kind of psychology and behavioral reinforcement, I could see that one argument about

why not to do this might be that actually I'm going to choose red because I want that time with my teacher and then that will be reinforced or I'm going to kick off because I want that special time with my favourite teacher or I've not seen them for a week. Like could you talk us through why ultimately hopefully that doesn't happen Adam? The first thing is to flip the question is if that does happen, is that a bad thing? Because if you want time with the teacher, you want to feel close to an adult. You want to feel like you have a relationship with him. The chances are that child has some other underpinning emotional need.

And the other chances are you'll be able to manage that transition very quickly. And if you try to put up the barriers, as I know you must go to this corner, then that child feels rejected, which defeats the whole purpose of it. The child has to feel accepted. And it could be as simple as, you know, a high five. if younger kids might need a cuddle. And then the teacher just says, okay, you feel like you're regulated now.

You feel like you're ready to return to learning. Go on. And they've had that connection. And that's what children are looking for. They're looking for that connection. And if you look at them neurologically, there's always three things that I always have in my mind for children who struggle to regulate.

And that's century development, language development, and relational development. And if they're seeking out the relational stuff, probably give it to them because they don't feel regulated or they feel funny. It might not be obvious to us. But the thing is you're quicker to get back to the lesson if you give them that, that you care. Thank you. That's incredible.

And it reminds me, if anyone's interested in this kind of approach and this way of thinking about attachment, there's a really wonderful book. Well, I think it's wonderful. That's I'll ask your opinion on it if you've read it by Gabe or Matte called Hold On to Your Kids. And it's really, really lovely. It's about the idea of emotional collection. And that applies to schools and education, but also us to, me as a parent,

are we emotionally collecting the children that we're around or are we just expecting them to respect us and follow our rules? And I really love that idea. Is that a book you're familiar with Adam? No, but I'm starting to feel like I'm repeating what they've said. I swear I haven't stolen their ideas. Shows that you know what you're talking about. And, you know, it's a nightmare when someone says,

there's this great book. You know, have you read it? You're like, no. It doesn't say anything about it. You haven't because you're already talking the talk and walking the walk. But I think if anyone else is interested in this and they're not already in Ed Syke,

they might well find it helpful to listen to that or to read a copy. I was telling you before we hit record, I tend to listen to kind of workbooks, whereas actually you very much more prefer fact books and reading those, reading those. So we're all different, aren't we? And actually, maybe as students, we'd have been different as well. It's just that I think the world wasn't quite as accessible when I was growing up. I'm 42 at the time of recording. And had I been able

to listen to things more, that would have helped me loads, but it just wasn't. But I think we're doing better now. We know better. I think you're absolutely right. We definitely know better. And the world is much more accessible. And I know we've gone through our two big nets, but the big thing that's coming through the pipeline is what does education look like in the world of AI? And teachers are trying their best to unpick what that looks like. You know, the number of times I've gone on the school conferences, and there's one teacher who's been pegged with, I've got to do the AI session.

I don't know what I'm doing. And I feel for them because nobody really knows what they're doing when it comes to AI or what it's going to look like. But the bottom line is it's going to have some sort of impact. And what people don't realize, or not everyone realizes, is that relationships actually still are core to our journey through life, our journey through education. And so although we're bringing in this tool that's very fantastical and shiny,

you still need those relationships. And that's why everything I talk about is learning through connection, collaboration. These are the key, these are going to become the core skills next to literacy and numeracy, because this is how you access not only the workplace, but the learning environment. This is how you come up with new ideas. No matter how good AI gets, the human ability to be creative is unparalleled. And if we create an education system that matches that creativity and that need for connection, then we're onto something that's, in my view, beautiful.

Adam, it's amazing. I could talk to you for hours. Your curiosity, your compassion, your kindness, and your passion for what you do just radiates out of you. So it's absolutely lovely. I've loved today. Could you tell us a little bit about your new podcast that you've launched? Yes.

Thank you for asking that. It's called Between Two Sykes with myself, Dr. Adam McCartney and Mike Lane, who's my co-host. And we met in a local authority when we were both working in the north of England. and we just stayed in touch. And as the years went past, we started to think, there's not a podcast that's out there that supports teachers in the way that we would support.

So we put our heads together and we decided we need to do this. And we came up with between two psychs. And the whole remit of it is that we want to give digestible psychology that teachers and abutting educational psychologists can use in their practice. So we talk about things like identity, we talk about things like burnout, we talk about things like what we call challenging behavior. And, you know, those who are interested in neurodiverse conditions, the first three episodes are dedicated to how school systems work around that from the child right through to the parents and leadership. So we try our best to pick topics that are relevant to educational settings and give little nuggets of, psychology that are applicable and can be applied without having to open up a million textbooks.

Fantastic. It sounds like a really great resource. Where can people get their ears around that, Adam? You can get it on any of your normal channels, whether it's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, I think we're even on Podbean, I believe. And we, yeah, so you can get us on there, just type it in. And if you follow me on LinkedIn, I am always pushing it. So you'll get a link sent to you and your DMs if you say hello to me. And yeah, so that's where you can find the podcast. And if you want to book a consultation with me, you can get me on my website at www. www.

Dr.adam McCartney.com. Fantastic. I will make sure that all of those details are in the show notes and in the description. It's been an absolute delight. It's been really lovely having you on the podcast. and I would love it if people would, you know, spam the comments with love and support for Adam. And if you've got any questions, fling those in there too.

If you'd find a follow-up episode with Dr. Adam and myself, interesting, let us know which area you'd find helpful for us to discuss. Thank you again for your time. I'm wishing you the very best with your podcast, Adam. Thank you. And thank you for having me on. You're so welcome. Oh, my gosh.

I honestly feel so energized after my chat with Adam. I feel inspired. I feel hope for the nation's schools. How has it impacted on you? I would love to know. Are you watching this because you work in education or because you want to? Are you watching this because you are working

with children and young people in a clinical capacity or trying to kind of understand what on earth an ed psych does? I would love to know if you found this content helpful. So please do drop us a comment. on YouTube. You can drop any comments or questions on Spotify and I'm on socials everywhere where I am Dr. Marianne Trent. If you learn really well with case studies and vignettes and you are wanting to progress your career in psychology, then I think you'd also really love the aspiring

psychologist membership. We regularly look at clinical vignettes and thinking about formulating and ways to think around the problem, kind of relevant research, all those kinds of lovely things you can learn more or ask me any questions the details are www.w. Aspiring hyphen psychologist.co. Dot UK and if you're just a big fan of the podcast and the show and of the content I create you can become a member for the podcast which will get you early access either on YouTube or on Apple or you can join it to be able to get exclusive subscriber only content with behind the scenes musings from me.

That is available on YouTube and direct on Apple or on Captivate where I host my show. Thank you so much for being here. Your time in listening to or watching the show is so valued. And I love doing this for you and with you. Love any ideas for future episodes you'd find helpful. You know where I am. With this podcast, that's your side, you'll be on your way to being qualified.

It's the aspiring psychologist podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent.