The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - What Happens During an HCPC FTP Investigation? Emotional and Legal Insights - Fitness to Practise

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

What really happens during an HCPC Fitness to Practise (FTP) investigation? In this episode of The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, Dr Marianne Trent speaks with legal consultant Nicholas Stöckling to break down the HCPC FTP process, what it involves, how long it takes, and what it feels like to be under investigation. Designed for psychologists and healthcare professionals, this conversation covers legal stages, emotional impact, and expert advice for anyone navigating or supporting someone through an FTP case. #ftp #hcpc Highlights: 00:00 – Introduction to the episode and guest02:07 – What is a Fitness to Practise (FTP) investigation?03:12 – Common triggers for FTP referrals06:10 – What happens after a concern is raised?08:45 – How long does the FTP process usually take?11:29 – The emotional impact of being investigated14:35 – Balancing fairness with protection of the public17:00 – The role of interim orders20:22 – What support is available during an FTP process?24:01 – Working with legal representatives: what to expect27:08 – Top tips for responding to allegations31:45 – When cases don’t meet the threshold for further action35:12 – The stress of being in limbo38:18 – Importance of documentation and reflective practice41:20 – What happens if the case proceeds to a hearing?44:11 – After the process: moving forward and regaining confidence46:35 – Final thoughts and where to get further helpLinks:📲 Connect with Nicholas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholas-stöckling-94b23a137/?originalSubdomain=fr🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97 💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested🖥️ Check out my brand new short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/short-courses✍️ Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/supervision📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent💬 To join my free Facebook group and discuss your thoughts on this episode and more: https://www.facebook.com/groups/aspiringpsychologistcommunityLike, Comment, Subscribe & get involved:If you enjoy the podcast, please do subscribe and rate and

A fitness to practice investigation can feel like your whole world is falling apart, but it doesn't have to. In this episode, I'm joined by a legal expert to explore what psychologists need to know before the HCPC comes knocking. Whether you're under investigation, you're concerned about someone else's practice, or you just want to feel more prepared, this conversation is well worth staying tuned for. Hope you find it super useful. Welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent, a

qualified clinical psychologist. Now in order to be able to say that to you, it means that in the UK I am registered and regulated with and by what's called the HCPC, which comes with a whole set of standards, protocols and guidance. But what happens if people do not stick to their professional codes of conduct? What happens if things get a bit wobbly? Well, we do have a regulatory body for a reason. And today we are taking a deep dive into that process. So with no further ado, let's cut to our chat and I will catch you on the other side.

I just want to welcome along our guest for today, Nicholas Sterling. Hi Nicholas. Hello, how are you going? I'm really well, thank you. I hope you are well too. So thank you for pitching this podcast episode to me. Could you firstly tell us, in case people are not aware,

what or who are the HCPC? Okay, so the Health and Care Professions Council is a regulatory body. So it's actually a statutory body, meaning it's created by a government statute, which is governs health care professionals. Now there's about 14 different professions that it governs. It used to govern social workers as well, which is a big one, but that now is governed by Social Work England. So essentially, if you're in contact with someone in relation to your health outside of nurses and doctors, the person

you're in contact with is likely governed by the HCPC. So it's a regulator with government powers and the reason why that's useful to understand is that if the HCPC requests a document as a regulator, they do have the powers of government meaning that they can make sure that you give it to them. It's been around for quite a while now, it used to be called the HCP. It's a body that I think it's worth understanding just from the outset. It's a body that's essentially set up

to protect the public. Now, as a psychologist or another healthcare professional, your dealings with the HCP can often be a little bit negative, meaning that they're asking for money, they're raising fees, which is a common complaint. But essentially, if we understand that the purpose of the HCPC is as a public protection body. So it's there essentially to make sure that those people that you work with,

fellow psychologists or if you're working within the NHS, a radiologist or a podiatrist or a paramedic, that they are of particular standards. So what we really want as a society, I think, is people knowing how to do their jobs. So there'll be various standards that each person has to meet in order to be in order to be able to be registered by the HCPC. So I think overall it's a really positive idea how it's actually how they perform their duties can be difficult for people to understand sometimes. It can often be underfunded, meaning that people if a complaint is raised against someone it can take a long time to process. You may have different case managers. So you can become quite frustrated with them. But overall it's a body there to protect the public. I think that's the best way of analysing it. Amazing. And is it all funded by the people

it's regulated? Or is there some funding from government, for example? That might be a question you don't know the answer, but I just, yeah, I wondered that. My understanding is it's primarily funded and almost exclusively funded by its members. I mean, I wouldn't absolutely quote me on that, but from my experience having worked with the HCPC, that's the understanding staff have. And as you guys are obviously well aware, psychologists who are listening, it costs a fair bit of money to be a member of the HCPC.

So that's in theory where your money is going. I mean, there are shareholders and the like, but essentially it's there for the good of its own professions. Yeah, so it's not there to make money. Okay, but that said, if anyone's listening to this and you are working in the UK and you're using one of the protected titles as a psychologist. That would be, for example, clinical psychologist, counselling psychologist, forensic psychologist, there's a few more as well. But those are protected titles, and if you have that qualification,

you're using that title. You must be registered and regulated by the HCPC. This is not optional. And actually, if you see somebody using one of those titles and you don't think that they are appropriately qualified in this country to be using that, you can contact the HCPC to kind of make some inquiries about whether that person is acting with integrity, should we say. So yeah, I am registered with the HCPC, which means that I will get renewal documents once a year, so that's when they drop into my email inbox.

I will get information about payments when they're due, when I've paid them. Sometimes people get told that they have got to do a CPD audit, continuing professional development, but one other time when people might hear from the HCPC might be if they have had a fitness to practice issue lodged against them, but as you are going to tell us later you can actually also do that yourself, you can nominate yourself for that. Could you tell us a little bit about what this fitness to practice process is like, please, Nick? Yeah, I mean, it's something that I think

it's very relevant for all people regulated by the HCPC to have a general understanding of. And I'm always quite not surprised anymore, but it's always interesting to note that a lot of people even very experienced people have very little knowledge about the fitness practice process. So I sometimes run webinars and we have some very experienced heads of hospitals, psychologists particularly, and they will have what I would argue is a very limited understanding of because they haven't really encountered it that much yet and then they encounter it and it becomes quite clear to them

that, wow, I probably should have known a little bit more. So the fitness to practice process is about protecting someone's fitness to practice, meaning protecting society's desire to have people who do their profession do it competently. So there were various standards of proficiency, the various standards that all registrants need to uphold. And if you don't uphold these standards, the idea is essentially

in a very broad, simplistic sense, is that you will be held to account. The fitness to practice regime is run by the HCPC, meaning that people can make complaints, various people members of the public make complaints. In terms of a percentage, it's worthwhile understanding who makes these complaints against a psychologist. So the overwhelming majority of complaints are raised by members of the public. So they can be clients, they can be someone who's read an article that you've written, as I say, as a psychologist. They've seen you on the television for more experienced ones. They've heard, seen your social media posts,

a member of the public that doesn't necessarily have to be directly related to you in the sense that was your patient, was your colleague. So the member of the public is the great majority. Other colleagues is another, I think about 20% of cases are raised by other colleagues or people who work with you, your boss, your workmate. And then there are also anonymous complaints.

There was small amount that happened. So you can have anonymous complaints. The HCPC generally prefers not to receive anonymous complaints, but in certain circumstances that can happen. But I think we're talking about two or 3%. We can obviously wear the protection of a person who's involved in the complaint

is prima facie more important than identifying them. But essentially the purpose of the fitness to practice investigation, the HCPC needs to be able to tell the person who the complaint's raised against, who's raising the complaint. So therefore they can prepare properly on how to respond to that complaint.

The final way a complaint is raised is a self-referral. Now this is quite common and people are often quite surprised by that. So issues related to health, often people will self-refer. That may be health in the broad sense of physical health, that may be health in the sense that there's an addiction issue. So having an understanding that you're unable to practice competently and then raising that concern with the HCPC, so filling out a document and sending it to the HCPC or calling one of their numbers and explaining that actually I

can't do this for reason A, I have cancer, reason B, I'm suffering from a substance abuse and being honest and transparent in that process is really helpful from the HCPC's perspective and that'll also reflect well upon you as you move forward. So once a complaint is raised against you, you then can have a three stage sort of process. So a complaint will be raised

and we dealt with by triage, whereby there's people in an office at the HCPC will determine whether there's anything at all within this complaint. If there is, then it'll move to the investigation stage. Now the investigation stage is probably where most people have contact with it. So for example, if a complaint is raised against you,

you'll receive an email or a letter defining what the complaint is and the fact that there is an investigation underway. That investigation process can last anywhere between two months to three, four years, ideally the shortest spectrum, but it can take a longer process. Then the decision is made

whether this will go to an ICP, it's an investigation committee panel, and they will determine whether that will then go to a final hearing. Now most cases are closed far before it reaches an ICP. If it does reach an ICP, an investigation committee panel, and they decide there is a case to answer, that will then go to a final hearing panel, which is a longer process and is similar to a court. So it's a tribunal essentially whereby a thorough examination of the evidence will go forward. And it's only generally for misconduct cases that it will reach that high level. And if it goes to that high level, then the various sanctions available are a strike off, a warning, these sort of ideas or these sort of sanctions.

So it's worth understanding that less than 1% of cases will go to a final hearing. And as a registered psychologist in the UK, the 30,000 members, 0.06 of psychologists will have a sanction against them through the HCPC. So this is a very small number. However, there are also, it's worth understanding that in any given year between 200 and 250 cases are raised against psychologists, which is first or

second in terms of the 14 professions, the HCPC govern. So it is the second most complained against profession. And that for me is a very interesting point, because it sort of reflects on the nature of the profession itself. Why do psychologists have more complaints raised against them? And that's something we might be able to discuss later. But essentially, it's worth understanding that if you're a psychologist, your chance of being struck off are very, very, very small if you're doing the right thing, and just as a percentage. However, there are 235 to 250 cases raised annually against psychologists. So your chance of having some involvement with the FTP process is not negligible. Whether you're actually involved

as a complainant against a colleague, whether you have a complaint raised against you, whether you're involved in the process as writing a professional report or appearing as a witness. So it's worth understanding how it operates. Yeah, it is. And it sounds like a very multi-layered process. But I guess what you're saying is the first thing you may know about this, if this is not a self-disclosure, is you're going about your normal day,

you open your emails, and then suddenly it feels like the world perhaps implodes a little bit. Because somebody, which might be an anonymous complainant, or it might be someone that's named in that email has raised a fitness to practice concern. Now of course that's gonna feel probably incredibly derailing especially if you didn't see it coming at all. This is gonna have a big emotional impact isn't it, Nicholas? I mean, it's worth noting that outside of imprisonment, your profession really defines who you are.

So if you think of sanctions in a criminal sense, and I've worked in criminal law and regulatory law, outside of restricting your freedom, restricting your ability to practice your profession is probably the second most powerful thing an organization can do. So that can be the most destabilizing process. And particularly in my experience,

having worked for quite a few years, primarily with psychologists. Psychologists are often well equipped to deal with these sort of issues through their training. I mean, in theory, you guys should have some sort of knowledge about how we deal with these sort of issues through their training. I mean, in theory, you guys should be, have some sort of knowledge about how we deal with the various processes and various skills, techniques we can use to process anxiety or feeling unable to control a situation.

So I think what happens when an FTP process, a concern is raised against someone, all your sense of self can be completely rocked. And particularly with the length of the process, the nature of the concerns, these things can go for a long time and all you're gonna get is a letter in the mail saying this is a concern raised against you

and we'll be in touch. And you know what that can entail. You know, eventually in theory, that can lead to being struck off. Now that as I've explained is a very small percentage, but that doesn't mean it's not in your head. So I try and help those I work with. And I work a lot with the ACP UK,

so the Association of Clinical Psychologists UK. And we try to navigate ways of assisting members. And obviously there's gonna be various bodies that work with the various different types of psychologists. So I suggest that if you are a clinical psychologist, having some contact with these bodies, or if you're an educational psychologist, or various different types of psychologists. So I suggest that if you are a clinical psychologist, having some contact with these bodies, or if you're an educational psychologist, or the various different types can be really useful

in dealing with the process because you can't control it. And it's a feeling that I don't have control of this situation. You're waiting for an email to come back. So what I should suggest to people to do is to try and be proactive and understand that this fitness to practice process is there in theory to protect the public. And while this may feel like it's attacking you, to understand that you are part of a bigger process and to try and disassociate any sort of personal

feelings of anger you may have, particularly if you know you've done nothing wrong. And let's be fair, most cases, nothing is proven cases, nothing is proven, and there's been no fault and there's been no misconduct. But the HCPC is there to rigorously check the process. So if you can try and logically think about how do I deal with this? And how do I accept the fact that it's a bit out of my control? That that's really the objective, but it is incredibly destabilizing. There's no two ways about it. Yeah, it really is. And, you know, thinking about the things that you're going to do in order of that which you're going to

do them, probably you're going to speak to someone who hopefully loves you. You know, you're going to speak to hopefully your supervisor. That's really important. So long as it's not your supervisor who's lodged a complaint. You're probably going to speak to your indemnity insurer as well. Would that be a good thing to do, Nicholas? Absolutely. I mean, in that order, absolutely. So supervision and the supervision is really, as I'm sure everyone's aware, is integral to the whole profession. And having a supervisor you have a great working relationship

with is really important. And particularly if something like this arises. So the first things first is your supervisor. If you have a body that you're involved in, similar to the ACP UK, it is worthwhile potentially contacting them. A lot of these bodies have fitness to practice advice centers.

So there'll be someone there to talk to about the case. And this can be done in a very general sense. People have this fear, well, if I'm discussing it with a professional body, is that going to reflect poorly upon me? But I'd argue, from my experience, having worked with a big professional body, quite the opposite, because a lot of these complaints, a lot of the complaints that are raised against professionals and the issues that they have in terms of dealing with the complaints are common. So if you're feeling really vulnerable and frustrated and angry, talking to someone from a representative body can be really useful. And obviously your insurer and that in that sense, whether you're going to get the psychological help you need, I'm not I'm not sure

they're necessarily going to be able to provide that but they may give you some some guidelines, legal advice as well. So if it is a very serious matter straight off the bat, it probably worthwhile talking to your representative body and whether they think straight away you need to seek legal advice. But try to remain calm off from the outset remain calm and realize that this if you're in a 20 year career, 30 year career as a psychologist, it's not impossible this is going to come against you. There's going to be some sort

of issue raised against you and just accept this part of the process and breathe. That would be my straight off the advice. Can you still continue to practice when there is an FTP hanging over you or is that very much dependent on what the allegation is? Yes, you can in a simple sense. You can still work. At this stage, there are no, nothing is proven. You can still work unless there's been interim order application. So in very serious cases, usually within a week or two of the HCPC receiving that complaint,

they can schedule an interim order application. So what an interim order application is, is a very small hearing whereby the HCPC panel, which consists of three people, a chair, a layman, and a member of the profession, so a psychologist, they'll make a decision whether, and a member of the profession, so a psychologist. They'll make a decision whether it's safe for that person to continue practicing.

Now, this is not a common occurrence. It only happens in severe cases. So if there are issues of sexual assault, criminal matters, boundary issues, but of the severe kind, those sort of types of case can have intramodular applications. But outside of those, and you'll know very quickly if there's gonna be intramodal application and a hearing,

outside of those, you are free to continue practicing. Now, whether you tell your boss is a matter entirely up to you, there's no legal requirement, it's advisable as a legal professional, it's advisable, just because generally you guys are on the same team, unless they raise a complaint against you, and then they'll be well aware that it's advisable just because generally you guys are on the same team, unless they raise the complaint against you and then they'll be well aware that it's them that's raised it,

but generally you are free to practice and what you say to your boss or to your colleagues is entirely up to you. Yeah, I guess I'm probably thinking about my own perspective too much really because I no longer work for an employer, I'm self-employed. I don't know that in all of my time in the NHS that anyone ever said they were under an FTP or had been. Is it more common in employment? Is it more common in private practice? Or is it a real melee? In terms of what types of people have concerns raised against them, it's across the board. I mean, I work at the moment with people involved in working within the NHS.

I have clients who have private practice. I don't think there's any way of defining it. I mean, potentially if you're involved, for example, in the NHS, you can have one complainant can make multiple complaints against various people. And that can happen, particularly in psychology. So that's worth understanding. So in that sense, there may be more complaints made by those working within broader organizations, but generally it's across the board.

It's something that people and professionals as psychologists can deal with. And I'd argue, and this is something that I mentioned before, I'd argue that the nature of the profession dictates that vulnerable people can be involved. So as a psychologist, you're going to be working with people who who need sometimes serious help. Sometimes it's for marital issues. Obviously there's a broad spectrum of psychology. But there are also some people who are unwell.

There's no other way to say it in the sense that there's a psychiatric disorder. And these types of people, patients, clients, service users, they can be referred to all three. service users, they can be referred to all three, they can have a tendency to respond negatively to certain circumstances. I mean, I think that's pretty clear for you guys as psychologists to understand. So in my experience, particularly during my work with the HCPC, with whom I worked for two and a half,

three years before I started to work on my own, in my experience, the HCPC receive a lot of complaints from vulnerable complainants. Yeah I guess you might get someone who's paranoid maybe who's then putting in complaints which to them feel very justified but to obviously people who are not paranoid or kind of experiencing any psychosis symptoms that really feels like that's not that's not at all what's happening or what has happened so I guess depending on what the complaint is it might affect how you feel about that

absolutely I mean I mean I wouldn't even paranoia and some form of schizophrenic or psychotic episode that can be people within suffering from that particular condition may make complaints, but even way down to a far less serious complaint, meaning someone has attachment issues and a psychologist ends a professional relationship due to the ceasing of their practice or they're moving or for various reasons

why people change, move location and they've signed posted this perfectly along the whole way. So I'm gonna be leaving in six months, nine months, exactly as you guys know how to do and when practicing professionally. And even then the nature of the relationship with the client and I've had this actually quite a few times,

the complaint has been made by a vulnerable patient of a psychologist who is absolutely distraught that this psychologist leaving them. And this leads to a lot of anger, a lot of revisionism. So suddenly a lot of the practice, a lot of the work that they did together is viewed through a different prism and they now accuse them of inappropriate touching.

I mean, that's a more extreme case, but they can definitely say that you left me abandoned and they now accuse them of inappropriate touching. I mean, that's a more extreme case, but they can definitely say that you left me abandoned and they're angry. And then they can write, and I've seen this with my work with the HCPC and actually with a recent client, they can write very, very structured letters to the HCPC as part of the complaint process, explaining in great detail what this person did wrong.

And if you're the HCPC, you're receiving this, it's well structured. This person may not necessarily have a psychiatric disorder, but may, but clearly is motivated because they had this personal relationship with this client, with this psychologist, sorry. And they can write pages of very organized reasons why this, this, this, their psychologist has done something wrong. The HCPC is just reading prima FACI what's in front of them. And they will essentially have to look at these complaints and take them on face value. And then you may know as a psychologist, you've done absolutely nothing wrong. The the psycho the ACPC are doing their job.

They're saying everyone deserves to have their right. You know, maybe everyone deserves to have their complaint heard. So that looks quite clearly like a case that's going to pass the triage stage. That's going to go to an investigation, even though there's substantially nothing in it. And the psychologists, particularly if they have experience, will know that what they've done is correct.

And they've done it. Their note taking's fine. Everything's fine. They know this patient. But you can't just respond to the HCPC saying, this patient has these major mental health issues, or this patient, but you can't just respond to the HCPC saying, this patient has these major mental health issues or this patient has this attachment issue to do with their childhood.

It doesn't work like that. So then the investigation process starts. So as I've explained to psychologists quite often, the fact that psychologists are the second most investigated profession of all HCPC regulated professions. It's to me interesting. So paramedics and psychologists are the two professions which have most complaints raised against them. Now that doesn't mean all psychologists are

struck off than anyone else. It just means that the nature of profession, I would argue, vulnerable people make these complaints and they can make multiple complaints against multiple people. And so it's worth knowing, understanding that these sort of people of these patients, these people involved in your work can also, if the relationship breaks down, can react negatively. So be aware of that is what I'd argue. Thank you. That's really helped me to kind of get an understanding with that example of how that might crop up for vulnerable patients. In order for us to kind of get an understanding of other examples where this might crop up for other referrals, have you got any other examples you could share Nick? I think what might be

most relevant is to give you some examples of cases that may affect a broader group of people. So everyone knows there's black and white cases. So there's clearly professional boundaries issues, having a sexual relationship with a client, these sort of things that are clearly gonna get you struck off. There's no question about that. That's the sort of thing that you see on every single drama as well.

But actually, as a psychologist watching those dramas, it makes us scream at the telly, because you're like, ah, this never happens. You know, it's always a psychologist who's the murderer or who's unethical. And in the most case, that is not my experience of the profession. So let me just leave that there. But on occasion it does happen and it's a serious concern. Absolutely. I mean, it does happen.

I mean, when I was working with the HCPC, I would be prosecuting these cases, but they're rare. They're very rare. They're not the ones that clog up the system. They're definitely not the complex. They're not complicated because it's black and white, really, unless there's a denial of that relationship or whatever it may be.

But for me, the issues that people may face in a daily basis relate to two, sort of two areas. One I'd say is scope of practice. So whether you are actually fully qualified to undertake the particular role that you've undertaken, that is something that crops up, I wouldn't say very regularly, but it's something that I've seen quite often.

So what that means, and I'll give you an example to illustrate the point. I had a client recently who acted on a parole board in a juvenile setting. So he's a juvenile in a juvenile prison. And this particular client was sitting on the body that's decided whether this person was likely to re-offend. Now they wrote a report, the report they thought was fine,

there was no complaints about it. That inmate, juvenile was released and then committed a crime. Now you work backwards from these steps and that report became under analysis. So essentially the report that was written by a psychologist who said purported to be an expert in this area was now scrutinized.

And under scrutiny, it came quite clear that they didn't have the appropriate training. Now, certain things, certain areas of psychology are quite niche, as you guys all know, but it is quite a broad spectrum of professions. So you can have an area of expertise in one area that overlaps

where one starts one stops is quite blurred. That's the nature of the profession. Someone can have a great deal of experience in one area which becomes highly relevant to a second one. Now I would argue having read the report and analyzed the report this person wrote it was excellent. There was no question it was an excellent report. But working backwards, it became clear at this particular field, you needed to have a particular qualification, this particular area of training, seven day course, 10 day course, you need to have written, I can't remember the exact details, it was a while ago. Like you need to be trained in expert witness work. Is that kind of an example?

It's part of it. Yeah, so you needed to be, you needed to have a specific document to be able to work within the sphere of juvenile detention centres. It's even that niche. So this specific area. This isn't about representing someone in court. This is about actually you need that qualification, that experience to be able to do that piece of work and you haven't got it, so you shouldn't be doing it. Absolutely. And so this could have been solved quite easy. And

this person was very professional and very good and that my client was highly competent. There was no issues with that. But because they didn't have this one thing that they were required, that became an HCPC case. It went quite far. So what I explained to people when I'm giving webinars, I say this quite often, is if you're unsure, talk to your supervisor, look it up, look to see if I'm going to act on behalf of someone or if I'm going to purport to be a particular expert,

particularly say in educational psychology or forensic psychology. And if you do have a good understanding of this, just make sure that your documentation is in line with what you're purporting to do. Now, it seems simple, in most of the circumstances, there's not really that set requirement,

but in certain areas, be aware that you're not acting outside of your scope of practice. So that's one area that I think's worth just being aware of. It's not something you'd like you to encounter every day. And most people know what they know and they stick within their areas.

But if you just like, hey, wait a second, I'm not sure I'm quite the right person to do this. And I know in a world where income is really important, just be careful that you don't take that role unless you're fully qualified to take that role. So that'd be sort of the first area that I'd mentioned. Another one would be in terms of reporting. If you feel, for example, like someone you work with is doing something inappropriate, someone within your, another professional that you have contact with is doing something that they shouldn't be doing. It's a good idea to seek advice

from your supervisor immediately. And then if you both agree that this should be reported, report it as soon as possible. Now, the example I give is a case I had a while back where a woman who runs a clinic and has psychologists working within her clinic, but it's sort of a sub let's agreement, but it's under her name.

So they're all experts in this particular area of psychology. Her name's on the door, but she has other people working with her, very common experience in the industry. This particular woman working for her formed a relationship with a client. It did happen. Inappropriate relationship. And the only reason she was notified, she found out about this,

was the husband of the client notified her saying someone who works under your roof is forming a relationship with my wife. Now, what my client did was became aware of this quite quickly. She knew that something was, she had her suspicions for quite a while and then didn't act on them for two, three weeks. Then got the email from the husband, the husband reported something. Now this doesn't have to be severe as this, but it can be, if there's any form of risk to our client, whether that's a child, whether that's a vulnerable patient and you're aware of that risk, it's a good idea to seek advice from your supervisor and then escalate it very quickly. So in the case of this person, this client didn't escalate it for about a month.

And during that time, there was a couple more sessions. Now this became a real problem for my client because she did not report that and she was in danger in the public. So if you're aware of something, have a chat with your supervisor. And if you're still not confident about that advice, go to your body. And if you're still feeling a little bit worried about it, you can even contact the HCPC and ask in this. You can ask if not anonymously, you can say hypothetically, this is what's happened. Should I report it? But as soon as you know something's right, it's not happening in relation to risk management,

make sure you act as soon as possible. That's really another advice that I'd give. That's so interesting. So actually someone else's fitness to practice concern, if you hold on for that too long, could also then become your own fitness to practice concern because you're not protecting clients and the public? Yeah, I mean, that's an extreme example, but it's a good idea, keeping in mind the fact that

HCPC there is there to protect the public and that's its primary motivating force, really that's what it's there to do. So if in any way, shape or form you're hindering that, or you're aware of that, it makes sense that the HCPC will look into your actions as well, particularly if you're in a more senior position. So this was more of a, she was the supervisor for one of better expression. So she had some form of leadership role with this woman,

but you just be aware of any risks. So the fact that many clients can be highly vulnerable due to the nature of the industry, means that any endangerment of these people is heightened. So any sort of risk to someone who's highly vulnerable will be viewed differently by the HCPC to someone who isn't, and that makes sense. So if you're working in a different industry

outside of psychology, but it's regulated by the HCPC, and the person you're working with is of sound mind and who, and actually can understand the process. That's gonna be viewed differently to if you're working with someone who's suffering from severe trauma, has been sexually abused, may have an addiction issue, you need to be more careful what you're doing with them. But that's common sense, I think.

you need to be more careful what you're doing with them. But that's common sense, I think. Thank you. Yeah, like, it's just really helpful to think about this. And I think often in psychology, maybe you think, oh, I'll have to worry about that when I get there. But I think it's just wise to be informed and to know what the processes would be

and to know that this is not some magical thinking thing, that by learning about this, we're not welcoming in those kind of complaints. Yeah, really interesting stuff. Before the HCPC, I think it was the British Psychological Society that kind of did their own regulation. And I remember at the back of the Psychologist magazine,

there would be kind of results of people's fitness to practice, if they're kind of what they've done. And it did back in the day when I was an aspiring psychologist, make for quite interesting reading. Do these become public cases once they've kind of been upheld, I guess, Nicholas? Yeah, interesting question. Yes. So essentially, it's in the public domain once if an adverse decision has been reached at the final hearing, which is, I guess,

another purpose of the HCPC. So if you're a member of the public and you want to make sure that your psychologist that you're about to entrust your life, your health, or your child's health with, doesn't have any complaints raised against them that have reached, that have been upheld at final hearing. So yes, there is a website as part of the HCPC

where you can click on and you can see all the cases. So you're, so people will check that up. Members of the public will check that up. They'll go and have a look at the role to see whether someone has been struck off. Sometimes some people keep on practicing that happens across all professions. A ruling happens against them

and then they just pretend it never happened. And the HCPC then have to act accordingly, which is complicated. But the process is actually, in most cases, a public process. So for example, if it goes to a final hearing or even a interim order application, members of the public can come and sit in on that

unless it's decided that it's a close hearing due to protection of privacy, which in psychological cases can happen quite often due to the nature of the work. But you should be aware that in theory, it is a public hearing. So if you're having an interim order hearing, a member of the press can come in the extreme cases. But if the case is closed before by the investigating team, or if it's closed by the investigating committee panel, then that will not be recorded in the public.

The HCPC will keep record of that for a certain amount of time. I think it's five years, a five year rule. So they will be aware that there has been a complaint raised against this person that's reached ICP, but there'll be no documented evidence. So therefore, if a member of the public wants to know, hey, I'm just hiring Dr Trent, is there any, has there been any complaints raised against her? Unless it's been

upheld at final hearing, there'll be no record of that. So it's worth knowing that it's only in the extreme cases that reach final hearing that your reputation will be affected. Yeah, that is useful to know. And for anyone that's watching this, who is looking for therapy or treatment from a regulated, protected title person, such as a clinical psychologist, the way you can check the register is to go to the HCPC website, or if you Google HCPC, check the register, then you put in the person's surname. I think you can put in which area they're practising in, but even if you Google HCPC, check the register, then you put in the person's surname. I think you can put in which area they're practising in, but even if you don't know that, you can just put in their surname and it will search for anybody who is registered in that name

and give you kind of the area that they work in. And it will give you their registration number. And that is the evidence that that person is appropriately registered with the professional body. Nicholas, it's been really, really helpful. Could you give us an overview about, I guess, where you come in? So what you do and if someone was going to try to reach out to you, what services could you offer? Yeah, thanks. Thanks very much for that. So as I said, my background is I was a I am a lawyer based with a great deal of experience across many different fields, criminal, regulatory, human rights law, but for the last five to about eight years, I've been working

exclusively in regulation law, primarily with HCPC registrants. Now what I try and do is assist people in some of the psychological aspect of it. So I work a fair bit with the ACP UK and we run webinars together. And that is not strictly legal. A lot of that is really helping people navigate the process because it's a stormy waters out there. It really can be quite unsettling.

So what I do is I run webinars on how to navigate the process and the various steps you can take. I also run webinars on professional boundaries issues and some of the legal, some actual more legal issues that people face. And I mainly really assist psychologists at the moment, but also paramedics and the health-based industries in their HCPC process.

So if you have a complaint raised against you, I'm happy to assist in the process of responding to the allegation. And that can just be a general chat. And then if it does actually reach an ICP level, what one needs to do is they need to respond to each individual allegation. And I help people write that.

And then if it goes forward to a hearing, I can represent them at a final hearing. But the great majority of the work that I do and people similar to me is assisting people in the initial stages, because it doesn't normally go to final hearing. People need to understand the final hearing is not really the likely outcome unless there's a major, unless it's a very serious matter. But having someone walk with you through the process and having someone assist you in writing those initial responses to the HCPC,

that's really useful and I have a great deal of experience in that. Would that be something that's funded by the individual themselves or would their indemnity insurer, for example, pay your bills? That depends. Generally, from my experience and the great majority of clients I have, they're self-funded because they have an indemnity insurer and generally what these organizations do is they will send you to a particular lawyer. And a lot of my clients, in fact, the great majority of my clients have not been happy with the service they've received from that lawyer. It's not necessarily that the legal aspect that they're doing is, they're assisting with is not good.

It was obviously these are highly competent lawyers. It's understanding psychologically how they're dealing with the process. So my sort of area of expertise is working with people in a psychological sense as well, and not just a strictly legal sense. And I think my experience with the HCPC and understanding how traumatic this whole process can be, yeah, it means that I can offer something slightly different.

On certain circumstances, you can designate and you can choose who you want to assist you in your matter. And that depends on your actual indemnity insurer. So that's something you can make contact with them themselves. But generally self-funded. That's how it works. Okay. And is it okay if I ask for a ballpark figure about what someone might be expecting to pay per hour or kind of for a piece of work? Because I know when we're trying to kind of think about whether people can afford things, it can be kind of quite helpful. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's, I think that's really where I've, I've changed people's

perceptions on, on how much these sort of things should cost. Because in a, in a strictly monetary sense, getting legal advice from the start of a process to the end of the process can be anywhere between five and 10,000 pounds. But what I do is I break it down to what we're going to do now is we're going to just focus on preparing the response to allegations. We have a few chats. So generally for the initial process and the initial stage, if it does go to an ICP, we're looking around 1500 pounds. So it's, I charge about 110, 120 pounds an hour, which is half the rate of other lawyers. And the reason I do that is the nature of the work

is not that, unless you're going to an actual hearing, and that's where it becomes, the hours start to really accumulate. This is about having friendly dialogue, friendly chats and giving psychological advice as well as legal advice. I think that it sounds a little bit cliched, but walking people through the process. So I think at £110 an hour is generally £110 to £120 depending on the nature of the case.

Thank you. That's really helpful to know because I think often when we're working closely with lawyers and they bill in four minute increments, it can feel like I have no idea how much this is going to all cost. Yeah, I don't do that at all. Okay, that's good to know. Thank you so much for your time. What's the best way for people to reach out to you if they would like to learn more about working with you? Yeah, I think the best way to reach out is via email. That's generally having a personal communication I've found is the best way of going. So my email is nicknick.stockling.com.

So nick.stockling.consulting.com. Amazing. I will make sure that's on screen for anyone watching on YouTube and it will be in the show notes and in the description for YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts as well. Thank you so much for your time and for illuminating this process for us because of course it can feel very triggering but hopefully Forearmed is forewarned and people do come out the other side don't they? They do manage to to assimilate this into their lives, put it behind them and go forward without thinking about it every day. Absolutely, it is something that is is manageable with the appropriate steps and the appropriate understanding of the process. It's something you can absolutely work through and something that having a broader understanding of

is very worthwhile in terms of preparing yourself for the worst and every eventuality. Thank you so much for your time and yes, do stay in touch. Thanks very much. Much appreciated. Thank you, Daniglus, for his time. It was a really illuminating conversation. I hope that's helped put your mind at ease or maybe given you some useful nuggets to store away for future as well. If you have found this helpful, please do drop a like, a comment, please do consider sharing it with your colleagues. If you are watching on YouTube,

if you're listening on MP3, please do rate and review on Apple podcasts. Please do rate on Spotify and please, wherever you are watching or listening, please do subscribe or follow the show. If you are interested in how to find a qualified and regulated psychologist or therapist, then please do check out the book which I wrote with my colleague Dr Tara Quintarillo, which you can find called Talking Heads, your guide to finding a qualified therapist in the UK. There is a link to that in the bio. Thank you so much for being part of my world. If you've got ideas for future episodes I would love

to hear them. Please do drop me a comment, drop me a like. Please do come and follow me on socials where I am Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. And let this be your guide With this podcast at your side You'll be on your way to being qualified It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast With Dr. Mary Antrim