The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - What is an Assistant Psychologist and what do they do?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

Starting point is 00:00:32 the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. What is an assistant psychologist?

Starting point is 00:01:04 What do they do and how should they be protected? With my guest, I am answering all of these questions and more for this really brilliant and insightful podcast episode. I hope you find it so useful. Welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. Now, as I have spoken about before, my route into professional psychology was via a series of assistant psychologist roles, but that is by no means the only way into professional psychology. However, it is still a really common one. So as part of this series, looking at assistant psychologists, I am bringing you a really brilliant, insightful,

Starting point is 00:01:53 thoughtful, compassionate chat with my expert for today, Luke Meakin, who is himself an assistant psychologist. He is also an older applicant and so there are so many interesting areas for discussion. If you value this episode please do take a moment to like, subscribe, follow, comment if watching on YouTube or Spotify or just get in contact with me on socials or in my free Facebook group The Aspiring Psychologist Community with Dr Marianne Trent. I hope you find it as interesting, as thought-provoking as I did. I will look forward to catching up with you on the other side. Hi, I just want to welcome along our guest for today, Luke Meakin, who's an assistant psychologist. Welcome to the podcast, Luke.

Starting point is 00:02:35 Hi, Marianne. Thanks for having me on. Really appreciate it. Oh, well, thank you for being so curious, really. You know know so we got connected on LinkedIn exchange some kind of voice notes and messages and just thinking about you know what an assistant psychologist is what are the responsibilities and we thought it might make a really interesting podcast episode and certainly in preparation for this episode which I will hands up say I haven't had time to do full justice to which is probably probably part of the problem isn't it stuff we're going to talk about but I've just found it a really interesting process so thanks for kick-starting more of my thinking in this area already yeah that's that's fine it's good to have someone else to riff off because I

Starting point is 00:03:27 myself spend a lot of time wondering what an assistant psychologist does and is even though I've been in it for two years now. Yeah and having been an assistant I found it really interesting so we're kind of referring within today to the guidance put together by the Association for Clinical Psychologists. And in case anyone hasn't heard of them before, they are not our professional body as clinical psychologists. You can join it as a qualified clinical psychologist or as a trainee clinical psychologist. I think it would be really lovely if they thought about opening that up to people in earlier stages of their career, but it isn't currently. So in the UK, our professional body for clinical psychology is the Healthcare Professions Council, HCPC, and that's who we pay our registration to. And again, you can't join as an assistant psychologist it's only for practitioner

Starting point is 00:04:27 psychologists of which there are currently nine in the uk i think i'm right in saying so yes in case you've landed on this podcast and you're like what is this um you know what is an assistant psychologist what's your understanding of what an assistant psychologist is Luke if that's not too big a question to dump on you um I suppose it can be quite broad my my my big issue is the ambiguity of the role and I think that's why I reached out to you however my understanding I suppose would begin with um the work that the psychologist the the qualified psychologist can give up and give someone else. And, you know, for want of a better term, potentially the grunt work of the profession. That's how I used to think of it anyway. And that would be, you know, extra research, some psychometric testing, probably say note-taking, letters, these sorts of things.

Starting point is 00:05:29 At least that's what I used to think. And then when getting into the profession, I have had multiple, maybe conflicting experiences. And then talking to others, some have had much more pressure on them, essentially kind of doing half of the psychologist's work you know quite a lot of quite a lot of clinical facing work with clients that maybe have too much risk for them because I suppose I would expect an assistant to have clinical facing work but be very very managed and maintained in that work so I suppose my original understanding was just the extra bits that the psychologist can afford to get rid of. Yeah, exactly. And I guess I've always

Starting point is 00:06:13 thought about it as allowing the full and optimal functioning and capabilities of a qualified clinical or forensic or you know occupational psychologist whilst optimizing their function without them having to do some of the stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be done by a qualified psychologist that could be done under supervision of a practitioner psychologist. And let's not make this purely about clinical, but a practitioner HCP psychologist. So for example, it's important that we make that distinction, because actually, I was an assistant clinical psychologist in a forensic service. And primarily in my first service, I was supervised by a clinical psychologist. But in my second assistant post, still with me, I was supervised by a forensic psychologist and actually really valued the supervision from both of those practitioner psychologists. But it was very clear that I was working towards a clinical doctorate route.

Starting point is 00:07:21 But the supervision should feel valued it should feel appropriate it should feel like it allows you to thrive as as a junior member of the psychology team and i know before we hit record both of us were quite intrigued by the the guidance that we read by ACP that said, actually, the stuff in between your psychology graduation and your getting on to professional doctorate is not a training role. Why did that resonate with you, Luke? I know why it resonated with me, but why did that resonate with you so much? I suppose it was really strange to see it written down because logically it makes sense, I suppose. But we are picking up so much extra experience in these roles that is psychologically

Starting point is 00:08:21 informed, whether it is direct or indirect and by direct i mean you know through supervision and so on indirect the things you pick up maybe your own reflection um reflective practice but i suppose it was really poignant to me because there is i'm trying to get on the doctorate myself there is such such a a bloodbath when it comes to applications and how difficult that period is and everyone's sort of competing against each other. We have these tons and tons of experience between many of us that on paper, I suppose technically isn't counted, which seems like it's counterproductive for the profession because psychology is supposed to be able to take a bird's eye view above everything and sort of ask why, what else. And the only way you can keep asking why is if you have professionals that have different experiences, I think,

Starting point is 00:09:23 because everyone should have the fundamental foundational knowledge which the training would dictate, and then your own experience should be able to take that in different ways and potentially like a creative avenue. So it was surprising to see it written down, I suppose, because it seems like a disconnect with the application process. For clinical and forensic, I have some friends who are on the forensic route as well. It seems quite similar in that sense.

Starting point is 00:09:53 So what are we to do with this experience that we're told to be reflective of and take supervision with? It's quite strange to me, quite conflicting. Yeah, and I hope it didn't feel like a kick in the teeth that kind of said you don't matter like it's I didn't necessarily read it that way and all the stuff you're doing it's just pointless like it doesn't matter I almost took it as you don't hold clinical responsibility you know you don't even hold that as a trainee um you know I signed for the first time as a qualified psychologist in my new band seven post and I think there needs to be more done to help you really begin to think about that clinical responsibility but that's a whole different podcast episode that's a really good point yeah I suppose you are right it should be used as sort of no this is the sort of thing I need to be doing I need to

Starting point is 00:10:41 be training I need to be doing xyz I didn't think of it as a kick in the teeth. I kind of see it as once I am qualified, all my experience will be really helpful. And it's already helpful in my life now. But it's just strange to see in that format. But you make a really great point. It should be used more of a shield for us. It should feel so safe.

Starting point is 00:11:02 It should feel like an opportunity to grow learn develop reflect be curious have fun as well you know you should be having fun within your psychology teams it should hopefully feel like a safe place where you can be yourself and you can be valued as being yourself. And I have to say that my experience of being an assistant in both of my assistant settings. So I did do a split post across three wards when I was in my first assistant post, which was very varied and very diverse. But then my second one was um just in one setting with youth offending population but both times i felt really valued by the teams um and i was invited on you know socials and stuff with the teams um both the psychology teams and the ward teams and

Starting point is 00:12:02 it was it's really nice to feel you know I put a post out on my LinkedIn yesterday about the trainee room or the assistant room and people being introduced at meetings as this is my assistant this is my trainee actually no this is Luke and he works with us and as an assistant psychologist in the team it's so different and actually it's sick organizations that think about people maybe it's burned out clinicians that think about people as as replaceable as interchangeable when actually I should be if you're my assistant you know even as my podcast guest I'm curious I'm thinking how can we help Luke to shape to be developed to learn to grow to to think about this as an opportunity for dissemination for his

Starting point is 00:12:53 his future career you know for hopefully something that that is useful for him as well as useful for the listeners and useful for me as a podcast host you you know, and I think you'd be, you know, even that we're having these curious existential professional qualifications, you know, it's all a bit Dawson's Creek, isn't it? That's probably a very 90s reference. But I think you've obviously a great assistant psychologist, you've got great capabilities for doing this highly nuanced work that we do. Thank you for that. The Dawson's Cleat reference didn't go over my head. I'm a little bit older than your average AP.

Starting point is 00:13:33 So, no, thank you for that. I think what you were just saying reminded me of why I sort of, or the question that I reached out to you with, which wasn't necessarily a question, but wondering about the ambiguity of the role that I personally struggle with at times. So I've come from, throughout my twenties, I worked in various different industries. I had the undergraduate and then a kind of, and a master's and I veered off and did a few other things. And I suppose that there was a lot of structure in those roles very different industries some were construction marketing and so on um but there was a lot of

Starting point is 00:14:10 structure that allowed for creativity because most of the end game was numbers you know you had to produce numbers you had to produce sales and and it was easy in that sense. Whereas I suppose coming into psychology, I mean my second assistant post now and I did some work as a healthcare assistant prior to that, I found that the written structure is there. So on your job application, your job spec and so forth, there is less creativity probably because you are working with individuals of risk, for sure. But there seems to be a barrier with assistance, with where we can be creative in our work sometimes. Because I think some people expect us to be able to be like a mini psychologist and be doing much more client work. And then I'd probably say in the experience of my own experience

Starting point is 00:15:10 of other people who I've worked with, they may be the ones who are not the psychologists themselves. I think the psychologists tend to be quite aware of what we should and shouldn't be doing because, like yourself, they've all been through it, which is really good. There just might not be enough of them around because of pressures pressures as you've alluded to there might be another podcast episode but i suppose to bring it back the ambiguity i struggle with is there can be such variance across posts one post can be very research admin based one can be very clinical facing and no

Starting point is 00:15:42 research admin based and from the document that we both just read prior to this it seems the former the research and admin based stuff is what an assistant should technically be doing or what it was set up for originally and that really struck me because to me that experience like the anomaly when into it, my perception was that the research in acne was kind of the anomaly side of things. It was extra skills an assistant can pick up for later on, and it should be more clinical facing, whereas in actual fact, it shouldn't be. Yeah, I thought it was really interesting. The document kind of spoke about the historical beginnings

Starting point is 00:16:24 of the assistant psychologist role which was originally called something else which escapes me i think it was a psychology technician i think yeah that rings a bell um but it was originally put together as a role for kind of inpatient services so that it could support the optimal functioning so that things that didn't need to necessarily be done by the qualified could be done by a graduate psychology person. You know, so someone with a psychology undergraduate degree that knew about, I guess, knew about the principles of clinical significance. significance and you know if they were doing assessments or neuropsych that was appropriate to the role that they knew about you know important effects to do and not do and kind of mindful considerations and could act under supervision without too much kind of ad lib or

Starting point is 00:17:20 changing what was going on but that was why they were created and I guess even in my role now you know stuff that I have to do with the background stuff for the psychology podcast it's really admin heavy it's really boring um at times I have to say um you know this is a labor of love people so please please do be kind takes me hours and hours and hours of my week which is unpaid time um but sometimes I get people you know contacting me saying could I do some um assistant psychologist or honorary psychology work and because I'm online only with my clinical practice these days there's not really anything they can do that's clinical. So it doesn't feel like a fair use of their time to just come and do my boring admin. And I also believe in people being paid for their time as well.

Starting point is 00:18:15 So I don't believe in honorary assistant posts. And there's a whole podcast episode hopefully my lovely podcast editor will put on screen now about kind of the ethical and practical considerations involved and inherent in honorary assistant psychologist roles but um yeah it's interesting that in the guidance in the document that we read really it's recommending that kind of 50 percent of an assistant psychologist time ought to be admin, but it's ought to be relevant admin that needs to be done by someone with psychology training, psychology education, I should say. It shouldn't just be photocopying. And I know that sometimes I've worked with people who have kind of felt like they've been duped into applying for an admin assistant role at perhaps band three, band four, maybe even band five, that maybe they couldn't fill before. And it's been rebranded as assistant psychologist.

Starting point is 00:19:18 Suddenly, they've got hundreds of applicants for this role but when it comes about it's it's all admin and no psychology and very little supervision from a practitioner psychologist and it all just feels like a horrid scam yeah i i definitely agree with the it sounds like a horrid scam it feels like a horrid scam to to many people because where are you supposed to be picking up the experience of what a first trainee and then a clinical psychologist would be doing because I think it's really important if you're if an AP is lucky enough to be in a service that has a trainee as well because they can sort of gauge the next step on regardless of whether it's clinical forensic they can gauge the next step because I've heard of some people having supervision from like very very senior positions in their team and there's probably quite a wide disconnect between the assistant and the

Starting point is 00:20:20 senior whether it's responsibility or time away from being an assistant because it's been 10-15 years since they've been one um so the the scam thing sounds right and it's it's wrong that that's what we're dealing with at times but i must go back to your original point that you made about spending all your time doing research for the for the podcast i think speak for myself and many others um it's very important for the community. So thank you for that time of putting into research. We all benefit from it. Oh, thanks, Luke.

Starting point is 00:20:52 That's really kind of you to say. Like, I love this podcast. Like, I love it. Like, I feel, I get all misty-eyed, but I feel so proud of it. Like, I would have loved to listen to this and to just be open to these experiences when I was an assistant psychologist. So I was part of, so my first assistant post, it was in a large psychiatric hospital, St. Andrew's Hospital, St. Andrew's Healthcare, I should say, in Northampton. And there was absolutely loads of assistants. And so we'd have assistant meetings and do presentations. But for me, I found there's a real value of

Starting point is 00:21:30 listening to people at a similar stage of your career. But like you said, being able to think, well, actually, that was an interview with a trainee. And I used to love going to ward meetings, for example, when a trainee was presenting or present and hearing them formulate or hearing the way that they spoke about clients and clinical work so that I could see, you know, where I perhaps needed to be aiming for and where the gaps in my experience were. And like you said, if I'm only ever working with 8B or 8C psychologists, I might feel like I'm coming up short all the time. But actually, what we also need to be aware of is that you may be an absolute whiz at neuropsych and psychosis populations. I may never have done any of that. And yet we might still be similarly ready and brilliant for clinical training and I think that's something that was spoken about in an episode I did with Alistair Teague and one of his wonderful assistant psychologists

Starting point is 00:22:36 a little while back and that was called how to get an assistant psychologist post but Alistair was like I don't want to know all the stuff you've done I want to look at what your abilities are like I said like your ability to be able to be curious to learn to be reflective to to be a really wonderful assistant psychologist without necessarily you know you don't need to have this identikit experience, because actually, when you do join any professional doctorate, you know, whether that is forensic, whether that is clinical, whether that's counselling, I would like to look at that cohort and feel that probably across all of the cohort, there's all of the key bits that have been met but they're not what no one person has all of

Starting point is 00:23:28 that already at the beginning of training otherwise they wouldn't be needing training would they um that you kind of complement each other and so myself and one of my peers were the only people that had had any forensic experience so if there was issues around risk and forensic, we'd be a natural first checking point. But people who, you know, we had a qualified teacher on our cohort. So issues around, you know, around education and the school setting. Naturally, he was someone that we would kind of draw on and people that were parents on the cohort and people that had worked in people with intellectual in services for people with intellectual disabilities you know this is this is the beauty of a cohort and seeing each other not as competition which I know is really

Starting point is 00:24:17 really tricky when you are striving for places but I used to go to those assistant meetings and to begin with I was like well I'm never going to get on training because um you know Vicky I'm going to name her Vicky who is on LinkedIn um who is amazing um she's got a book as well about happiness and kind of psychology and positive psychology Dr Vicky Barnes I hope it's okay to name you Vicky I remember watching you watching her present on kind of dbt stuff and I was like well I said I'm never I'm never gonna get to be a trainee because Vicky and other people like Vicky are much better than me and they are gonna get all the places and I'm not good enough, you know. But actually, we ended up getting onto training exactly the same year, different universities, but then we applied to different universities, you know. And it's really thinking about the people that you're working with,

Starting point is 00:25:18 as people, so the way I'd moved by the time we both got in training, moved to really celebrate others and to try and champion other assistants and other people kind of in upcoming. This is still what I do now, rather than necessarily being threatened. You know, what do we get when we build other people up rather than be threatened by them and actually jealousy is a really important concept in itself because jealousy is often seeing someone who's got what you want and rather than saying oh my god amazing well done we can be wanting to tear people down but that's our jealousy which is a very complicated emotion but I think it is I think it does come up in psychology yeah i think you make a great point um that we shouldn't be trying to tear each other down because as you earlier said no one has all the the skills and the experience and we'd hope that again everyone's everyone starts at some sort of baseline foundational skill that they're allowed to practice in the future

Starting point is 00:26:26 for safety reasons and risk and just keeping everything sort of the same across the board. But then celebrating the backgrounds, the different experiences, whether that is particular posts you've worked in, like you mentioned the forensic work, would really help you with risk and probably also being less risk averse as well because you in certain certain environments you've seen the worst of it the most risky so we can probably try this we can try that where someone without that background may think that the risk they're dealing with is the maximum.

Starting point is 00:27:12 And your story about Vicky kind of resonated with me, but from a different point of view. So when I was working with, when I was lucky enough to have trainees in our service as well, that was kind of the moment for me where I said, oh, I can probably do this. Because I didn't see them too far away from me because we'd had talks, we'd had discussions, and I was quite surprised that I was almost on a level with them about what we were discussing about. And they didn't feel like they were too far away from me in development perspective, which prior to meeting them, I kind of thought, this mysterious doctorate route, they must be, they must be really hot shots in their own profession.

Starting point is 00:27:49 And they had their own limitations and they were able to call them out and we were able to adapt and work together. And I think since then, and possibly because I'm a bit like, I'm in my early thirties now, which is not typical for your APs. I've kind of had, I've kind of had to continue to remind myself, what else do you bring? Like I have academics behind me and I have the experience that I need.

Starting point is 00:28:16 What else do I bring to the table? Because instead of looking at it like a competition, it's like, what else can I naturally bring out of others? Because I have my own skills in a team, social and technical. But then as you said, other people have those skills. And how do you mesh them together and create the service that you need? Because I've also been supervised by very senior people. And I've learned so much from them in how to sort of manage, how they manage services, how they run services.

Starting point is 00:28:47 Not that I'll need that skill now, but just how to deal with people, conflicting points of view in the MDT and how to sit back and sort of let people speak, which clinicians definitely need. We definitely need to be able to listen. How to deal with conflicting sort of opinions and make people feel empowered. So that's not necessarily a skill that I'm going to need in my client-facing stuff as much in the immediate future, long-term maybe, after training and such. But it's really valuable to have the contrasting sort of experiences from very senior and people just ahead of me so it was it was definitely good to be able to work with

Starting point is 00:29:30 the different professions and see what we can all bring different levels of the profession as opposed to seeing it as competition absolutely and you make so many wonderful points like yeah we should be we should be in roles where we're being allowed to grow and develop and where we are I guess having those regular check-in points you know more regularly than our um our appraisals people should be having appraisals every year where we're actually looking at ksfs you know so if I'm currently a four, what do I need to be doing to be moving towards the responsibilities of a band five member of staff? So you're actually looking ahead at what the KSFs are for band five. And your employer, I get quite often people are like, oh,

Starting point is 00:30:23 they're going to be annoyed when I hand my notice in are they going to be disappointed that I've only been in this role for six months and now I'm on clinical training and I was like they should be delighted they should be thrilled that you are developing that what you are doing in your service has helped you to advance you know I know it is a bit of a headache re-recruiting because it's an expensive, laborious process. But they picked you because you are so amazing and you've demonstrated how amazing you are because you're now moving on to the next stage of your career. So I really hope people are met with celebration rather than dismay when they share their happy news. But you also made a really valid point about me and my forensic roles. I actually did need to spend time

Starting point is 00:31:12 during my clinical training, unlearning some of that risk for normal populations. You know, so we always need to be thinking with a risk element to some extent. But the level of risk that I was used to working with, which is where someone might stab you in the eye with a pen at any point, you know, or that you might open a bedroom door, and even an older adult would be crouched in the corner of the room ready to pounce, you know. So that is not hugely typical in, for example, a general mental health setting, but it's not impossible. You know, I'm always careful. I was always careful with my positioning of my chairs in the clinical rooms and stuff, because just makes sense but there are certain levels of sitting

Starting point is 00:32:07 with risk that you need to begin to be able to do in non-forensic services so that's a really really good point it might have been that the the trainee i felt like i was i was able to go into training or i felt like i was more ready since meeting them because they were they were so close um as opposed to initially thinking they are these hot shots that are way ahead of me i thought there's a few things which kind of alludes to your point like what should we be working towards yeah if you can see it you can be it can't you whereas if you're only ever seeing you know the a b c's d's you might be like well i don't know where the next stage is you know and yeah really really lovely stuff and let's have a think then about what assistants should be doing according to the

Starting point is 00:33:09 ACP guidance so examples of responsibilities that may be delegated and I think that's an important word in itself can include dependent on experience and training manualized group interventions, manualised one-to-one interventions, psychometric assessments, completing and inputting data under supervision. That doesn't mean like someone sitting under your, over your shoulder, just means it should be reviewed under supervision. Semi-structured history taking assessments, lit reviews and research, including audit and service evaluation, making and modifying resources approved by supervisor, teamwork, reflective practice, engaging in, not facilitating team meetings, networking, peer supervision and training. Letters and reports checked and signed under supervision of their clinical supervisor, completing clinical observations and case formulation.

Starting point is 00:34:10 APs should not be expected to carry out the duties of a health care assistant, supporting personal care or excessive non-clinical admin tasks. I just thought that was really really interesting yeah definitely um it's i would probably hazard to say that it's not the norm what we've just read across ap roles though many of those things might be included i don't think that list is the norm unfortunately does it you know i know we we've kind of spoke before we started recording that maybe actually that almost feels like old school and that it's not exciting enough to gain you a place valid safe experience I almost said training experience but it's not a training experience it's a developmental experience that supports your own development but also is of benefit to the clients in the service but like I said helps

Starting point is 00:35:20 I mean what I read just then is is exactly what I understood the role of assistant to be, to allow the optimal functioning of a qualified psychologist by metering out tasks that don't necessarily need to be done by a qualified psychologist. But does it maybe not feel fruity enough? It doesn't feel exciting enough to not be burned out and doing all of the jobs of a qualified psychologist these days. It definitely, to me, doesn't sound normal. And through speaking with others, I've heard of people doing roles that are pretty much that. And that, as you say, technically technically is what assistant psychologists should be doing.

Starting point is 00:36:10 But when discussing this with other APs or trainees who were APs, as you say, that sounds boring or more boring. And they should be doing much more clinical stuff. They should be doing essentially like a filtered down version of what trainees do. And that, in a sense, discredits what trainees do because there is quite a big difference. And they are, towards the end of their time, obviously expected to be picking up more and more clinical work, more and more important and potentially risky contact with people.

Starting point is 00:36:49 And I don't know where it's come from, but you being around the profession for a bit longer than me, like maybe you understand where this has stemmed from with regards to why an assistant should be expected either of themselves or people in the department, to be picking up these more, as you say, juicy, fruity sort of parts of what a psychologist will eventually be doing. Because all these things are really, really important to be good at. Psychometrics testing is really good. Research, literature reviews. The clinical admin is, as you said, still a really important part of your job unfortunately

Starting point is 00:37:25 but it will always be a part of the job so i don't know where this has come from and it's it's really refreshing to see it written down in this guideline that it is okay to be doing that you don't have to think that you're missing out that you're you're doing something more boring because it is really important skills you're learning. Exactly. And actually the trainee role. So making that distinction that post-graduation, you are not in a trainee role. This is where it's really relevant because actually when you become a trainee psychologist, you are then needing to learn all of the skills and all the capabilities to work within the KSFs of a qualified practitioner, psychologist. And the same is not true. You know, we are supporting the function as assistant psychologists. And, you know, even placement students, they are below the level of

Starting point is 00:38:29 expectation because they haven't yet got their psychology graduation. You know, they haven't got that qualification. Whereas I think often placement students are just used as assistant psychologists and honorary assistant psychologists are used as as assistant psychologists as well and it's it's not ethical it's not right and I've remembered my other point was that you know you being a slightly older applicant it's lovely to see in the profession also lovely to see someone who identifies as male because I know predominantly it is still a very female heavy profession so um lovely to see that on on both those but it's it's not very affordable to be an assistant psychologist you know and actually that affects the diversity as well so when i was an assistant i was getting paid 13 000 pounds a year um you know not a lot of money not a lot of money I know it's better now

Starting point is 00:39:27 you know band four and band five is better now but still the cost of living has increased and so in order to be you know I don't it's not my place to ask about your family in your situation but in order to be in your 30s and an assistant that's's harder. There's probably people that you went to school with who are on double, maybe triple the salary that you're on. And that's really hard. Yeah, there are definitely people who are on double and triple. I myself have been on double the salary before a few years ago in a separate industry and would be on considerably more money now

Starting point is 00:40:03 if I'd have stayed there. But the money isn't everything everything but it is definitely important and it is getting to the point where the pressure is mounting for how long can i keep doing this because of the financial side effect that myself and many others even in a worse position than myself will be feeling because you do feel like you give so much because you are trying to trying to progress skill-wise for the personal development to get onto that training but also trying to progress so that you can help the service users at the end of the day and your team and grow in that sense of a useful employee a useful team member and so on and so forth but i think for the work that we do and it's the same across pretty much all of the public sector

Starting point is 00:40:52 we we probably are not we're probably not financially rewarded as well as we could be or should be and i'm not talking a huge jump because granted we're not qualified and there should be a big difference between the two or trainees and so on, but it definitely is a pressure. So thanks for pointing that out. And for myself and others in worse positions, I think we just have to try and remember why we are doing it. Hopefully one day we will qualify and we will be able to sort of work with others

Starting point is 00:41:30 and maybe make these changes in services on a higher level. Absolutely. But I think you're very much ready for the Band 6 training role. I would be incredibly surprised if you don't have interviews in this next year, because I think you are, you know, I'm what I would be looking for. I, if I was on a panel, I'm seeing within you. So I'm wishing you the very best if you do choose to apply next year. I have to say, once I was a trainee, I was actually slightly better off financially than I was as a qualified member of staff because I then lost all of my, um, I had to, there was no jobs

Starting point is 00:42:12 and I had to travel basically an hour each way for work, but that was on my own expense. So I wasn't getting any mileage, um, for my home to base. And then I had to start paying council tax as well. So I I I was worse off as a band seven than I was as a band six so you know it's not always the holy grail that you're like I'm onto the big money now um yes but I would hope that if you I went from band four to band six when I went from assistant to training and I loved it when I first looked at my pay slip for what was like basically a month a month and a half oh I felt like a millionaire it was incredible you know the the difference of jumping two bands and getting paid basically for a month and a half so I hope that you enjoy

Starting point is 00:43:07 the enhanced salary when it comes but you know people are often starting when they've already got mortgages they've already got children you know they've already got overheads they've already got car payments you know it's not it's not easy are highly skilled, qualified, you know, not professionally qualified, but they've got, they've often got undergraduate, well, they have to have an undergraduate degree. They've often got masters. Some of them have even already got doctorates or PhDs, like it's wild, the amount of skills and expertise. Now I'm really sorry, because I'm very much enjoying chatting with you. But I am, as I say, in the podcast, I am still a practicing clinician. And I have got a client in 15 minutes, and we need to give some good time for this episode to upload. And so I am going to have to cut us a little bit shorter. but I have loved speaking with you.

Starting point is 00:44:06 I, yeah, I'm excited for good things to come your way. Have you got any advice for reducing burnout in this profession of ours? Yeah, it's probably quite cliche, but personally, it's to me, it's exercise of some form or another. That's the top for me. It doesn't have to be intense. It can be just walking through nature and so on and so forth, especially in this beautiful weather. That would be the start. But then I would say to people, find your hobbies and lean into those hobbies, whether it's reading, writing, sports, walking the dog, whatever you want, you can tailor that.

Starting point is 00:44:47 Because I think the stress really goes up, commitments go up. Those parts of you are kind of what help keep your identity in the middle, which is really to keep yourself grounded and not lose yourself to work. So that's what I like. I try and a lot of things which can be counterproductive sometimes but I do try and keep myself very busy good well done well done to you and we haven't really had time to do justice to so much of this stuff and I wanted to kind of mention the the workload of PWPs which is sometimes like 60 70 80 percent face-to-face time and it's like whoa whoa whoa but sometimes assistants are doing similar stuff but that is probably a conversation for another day thank you so much for your time

Starting point is 00:45:33 luke thank you for having me on i appreciate it and um i'll be keeping up to date and i don't know maybe maybe in the future we can have another chat that would be wonderful wishing you well thank you thanks marianne thank you what an amazing chat with luke how lucky are we to have had him join us for this episode i am hopeful for good things to come for luke after this episode was in the can i contacted luke to say that i'd seen some bpa and that maybe it would be a good idea for us to read it and to come up with a part two of this episode and so that is what is coming this is now going to be an assistant psychologist season and you can catch the next episode which will be coming along next week there is no need to listen or watch in order though.

Starting point is 00:46:25 So whichever order you've stumbled across these, please do dive in. If you have loved these chats, I think you probably would love the chats that I have with people and the support that is offered and the great sense of community in the Aspiring Psychologist membership,

Starting point is 00:46:42 which you can join for just 30 pounds a month with no minimum term it gets really wonderful reviews and we are getting astounding results i think you'll also really like the aspiring psychologist collective book and the clinical psychologist collective book too do come and connect with me on socials where I'm Dr. Marianne Trent and come and join the free Facebook group which is the unique and very special only home for Marianne's motivation and mindset sessions which happen once a week in that group absolutely for free and that is over on Facebook. If you do value this podcast a way that you can help me and any podcaster that you appreciate for free is simply by subscribing, by liking, by interacting with their content.

Starting point is 00:47:33 It absolutely means the world. Thank you for being part of my world and I will look forward to bringing you the next episode of the podcast, which will be released on youtube dr marianne trent from 10 a.m on saturday and wherever you get your podcast 6 a.m on monday With this podcast that you'll see, you'll be on your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. With Dr. Marianne Trent. My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and

Starting point is 00:48:47 there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay. But trust me, you will not put the book down once you start.

The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - What is an Assistant Psychologist and what do they do?

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