The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - What is it like going from trainee to qualified clinical psychologist?

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

In this video Dr. Marianne Trent welcomes newly qualified clinical psychologist, Dr. David Singleton. They discuss the transition from trainee to qualified life, exploring the highs, the challenges, and the lessons learned. Dr. Singleton reflects on imposter syndrome, financial planning, and the joys of finding a role that aligns with your values.Guest: Dr. David Singleton – Newly Qualified Clinical PsychologistHighlights:In this video Dr. Marianne Trent welcomes newly qualified clinical psychologist, Dr. David Singleton. They discuss the transition from trainee to qualified life, exploring the highs, the challenges, and the lessons learned. Dr. Singleton reflects on imposter syndrome, financial planning, and the joys of finding a role that aligns with your values.Guest: Dr. David Singleton – Newly Qualified Clinical PsychologistHighlights:00:00 - Introduction01:20 - Meet Dr. David Singleton05:06 - Navigating Rejections07:12 - The Importance of Reflective Writing11:01 - Loving the Work12:30 - Working at Maggie's17:49 - Transitioning to Qualified Life28:03 - Clinical Responsibility33:43 - Imposter Syndrome and Self-Compassion37:36 - Changes in Routine45:35 - Looking Ahead50:32 - Final Thoughts53:00 - Closing RemarksLinks:📲 Follow Dr David here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-david-singleton-97303985/🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97 💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested🖥️ Check out my brand new short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/short-courses✍️ Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/supervision📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent💬 To join my free Facebook group and discuss your thoughts on this episode and more: https://www.facebook.com/groups/aspiringpsychologistcommunityLike, Comment, Subscribe & get involved:If you enjoy the podcast, please do subscribe and rate and review episodes. If you'd like to learn how to record and submit your own audio testimonial to be included in future shows head to:

Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. What's it really like transitioning from being a trainee psychologist to a fully

qualified psychologist? Join me and Dr. David as we unpack the challenges, surprises and lessons in this pivotal career step. Whether you are an aspiring psychologist or perhaps preparing for qualified life, this is an episode you will not want to miss. Hi, welcome along to the award-winning podcast. I am Dr. Marianne and it's so lovely to have you here. I, as you may know, am a qualified clinical psychologist and there were many, many steps involved in getting me from where I started to being fully qualified and beyond. This felt like a timely and very important episode to record. If you find it useful, please do drop me a comment, a like. Consider sharing and subscribing.

If you're listening on Spotify, please do rate. If you're on Apple Podcasts, please do take a moment to rate and review the show. And wherever you listen, please do take a moment to rate and review the show. And wherever you listen, please subscribe. This was an absolute gem of an episode to record, and I hope you really enjoy it. I will catch you on the other side. Hi, I just want to welcome along to the podcast, Dr. David Singleton. Hi, welcome along. Hi. Hi, Ryan. How are you? I'm really well, thank you. That's really kind of you to ask. Thank you for being here and for slossing us into your very busy, newly qualified schedule. But you've

also had a fantastic summer as well, and we might think some more about that. But you are a very newly qualified clinical psychologist, which is going to be kind of our topic for today thinking about that transition and what qualified life is like. Yeah absolutely recently qualified at the end of September so it feels very very very new and into sort of spend time reflecting on that. Yeah absolutely and we're we're recording kind of mid-November at the moment, but this, you know, I think this is useful whatever time of the year it is for people. Just before we dive into all of that, could you give us a, you know, a potted history about you and why clinical psychology appealed to you? Yeah, absolutely. That's really interesting to reflect on that actually, because it feels like it's been such a long time.

But I actually, finishing sixth form, I feel there's always a big pressure of what to do at uni and at that point I definitely had no idea so I took a few years out I only intended to take one year and completely forgot to apply for uni the next but then within that two year time I was like oh I'm really interested I'd started to notice people around me and I was being really aware of maybe what sort of things might change the behaviors and what was I having to do to adapt what I sort of wanted to try and sort of work around people so I applied for psychology actually applied for neuropsychology quickly realized the neuro bit was a bit bit not how my brain was working but I loved the psychology aspect of it so I did my three years

and then I applied for a master's and moved down to London to do that and it was in clinical mental health because I hadn't had it for all the best intentions I couldn't get any work experience whilst on the undergrad and I came to London got on this master's course that gave me a placement and it was with an adult rehabilitation center and one of the ones in north london and really enjoyed it got a job as a part-time job within three months which was crazy which was working in a hospital and i didn't expect to get a job straight away but it was really nice i worked in cams and it it was eating disorders and really landed on my feet there absolutely fell in love with working with kids and I thought this is a really really difficult area but it was great to actually work with the clinical psychologist

the psychiatrist the family therapist and really really enjoyed that and it was through being on there that a lot of the support workers were going on to the clinical psychology route so we'd sit and talk and find out what that might be and after three years I then thought right I need a bit more of a different experience so I moved on to work for talking therapies and trained as a PWP and really enjoyed actually the sort of the assessment and the and the therapeutic work that you thought i was doing and i just really found that i really wanted to connect and work with people i wanted to then think about what i could do in the doctorate and what other experiences i wanted to actually have so i always found that it was something i really wanted to

really strive to get those placements and we can get that varied work and figure out which which area do I want to work in and it was only the fourth time of applying that I got on so I didn't have to wait a few years which quite used to rejection now which is quite an interesting thing but fell in love on the course with health psychology which was not an area I thought that I would necessarily go into. And I'm just really grateful of all the opportunities that I've had. Oh, David, that's like your winner's speech. That's like beautiful, like so nice. And, you know, I kind of like that you said I only applied four times.

Like you still feel like you won a prize, like only four times. Whereas for many people, they might stop at two or three and be like oh it's not for me but you were like yeah just it's obviously not my time I'm not ready for that yet but I when I get there it's gonna be fabulous and I think that's exactly how I felt really you know I'm envisioning this batch that said you know Dr Marianne you know and I'm not stopping till I get there well I envisaged the trainee clinical psychologist and you know and I'm not stopping until I get there well I envisaged the trainee clinical psychologist

and you know actualized that really you know it wasn't going to be another way for me like it's that's what I was doing and sounds like you really felt similarly I think I did and I think I was always looking and trying not to have just all eggs in one basket so I was thinking of alternative ways because I thought I'm I didn't want to be doing this like 10 years later still applying because I would have felt oh dear I'm it's clearly not meant for me at that point but I mean I know people who've been applying seven eight times and got on so I know it's not unusual and sometimes it can feel like what more can I do but I was quite thinking I did want the clinical cycle do that's what I was aiming for but I

I was starting to get like little backup plans of maybe what else could I do? If this isn't going to work in my favor, what can I go for? But the goal still, the ultimate goal was to still get on. Absolutely. And I think if it is taking seven or eight times, I think if people are like in that position now, I think it's important that you look at whether you've got kind of varied clinical experience relevant clinical experience ideally supervision by a qualified HCPC psychologist that you've got some research but if you still got all of that and it's not it's not working I think often what people are lacking is is their reflection and their ability to kind of really just transform answers you know and just like wow wow like that's my

experience anyway and I think often it is it's about how you write your statements and I'm the first to admit that my first couple of statements that I wrote I looked back and I thought no wonder I didn't get anything no wonder I wasn't called back. I mean, I did actually have interviews, one each year, but I did think, well, that's not written very well. I'm almost bullet pointing it and not really, this isn't going to be a formula that's going to work. I need to revisit this.

And then it was like speaking with, like you said, a HCPC, clinical psychologist, getting advice getting some tips really trying to think about how i still make it me but how i can sort of improve it and improve my chances and hopefully that did work absolutely and i think if you look at the form and you're completely daunted by it and you don't know where to begin it's maybe a sign that maybe it's not quite your time just yet because it should kind of be comfortably within your wheelhouse I think that's my take on it anyway absolutely and I actually pulled an application the year before my first one my my friends around me who were also in that sort of

world and the supervisor at the time really wanted me to go for it and I just in the end I just like I'm not ready so I just didn't do it and that felt right for me and whilst I may have felt ready at the time in the first couple of applications I look back and I think actually I'm really grateful I didn't get on because actually I think I wouldn't have been ready and the time that I got on I did want it I wasn't overly thinking about it all the time so it felt a really nice bonus but I felt really ready and I'd gathered I'd gained so much more experience in clinical and research work that it felt the right time and so I was really pleased that actually it was the fourth time which is strange

saying it like you you want to get on the first time but actually reflecting back it was right that I got on that fourth year absolutely you don't want to be the least qualified least ready person on your cohort because that's just not that's just not where you want to be so I've spoken on the podcast before that I actually originally went to uni to do forensic science and in those first weeks I was just crying every evening because I hated it because it was such a steep learning curve for me and I just thought this is not how I want to be originally I was gonna do psychology and then had my head turned by forensics and you can make you know make choices to put things right again so I transferred to psychology and as they say the rest

is history it's nice to actually look back at our different journeys actually and I really really enjoy I've got different friends in different psychology sessions and I really really enjoy I've got different friends in different psychology sessions and it's really nice just to see how different interests go in different ways and it's just finding that way and almost trying to reduce the pressure of I must do this way when actually it's really nice to have a flexible sort of mindset of being like you know what I'll try it and if it's not for me maybe what other area is going to be for me and you want to be for me I always wanted to work somewhere in a setting that I enjoy coming to work I didn't want to feel like they said almost tearful or like just questioning things all the time I actually wanted to be enjoying it and that

was the main sort of purpose why I think one of the main purposes again that I went for the clinical room absolutely you know we all because we're human sometimes have days where you think i'd rather just sit and watch netflix today or i'd rather go and sit in a coffee shop and watch the world go by of course that's normal but actually i swear guides on our brownies on i did them both when i'm at work there's nowhere else i'd probably rather be like i love what i do and as soon as i'm with clients and doing what i do you know obviously i love my children i love holidays like i love all that but it doesn't feel like it's an it's an effort or it's an endurance does that make sense it does and you know i think there are definitely days that even when you're

working that you think oh my god i i i i've not got the skills and i'm not ready for this oh they they know that i'm not ready they know but actually ultimately that's a bad day and it's okay to have a bad day and it's okay to acknowledge that you're having a bad day rather than trying to be like no no no no it's okay but like you said for the last year when I've been working in Maggie's in a different centre it's the first time really where I really enjoyed looking forward to coming into work and being there and doing the work and yes the work that I do is really very emotional but I love actually being here and it's transitioned into this this newly qualified role that I'm in now I absolutely just look forward to coming in

and that's what I'd always hoped for in a career of having that excitement coming to work. Oh that's so powerful so powerful I love that and some of our conversations have been on camera some of them have been off camera so I know that you did a trainee placement in the same organisation in your final year or during training. I don't know if it was your final year, but actually when this qualified role came up and you already knew you were going to be moving for the course, you were like super excited so I don't think I'd ever heard of Maggie's but could you tell us a little bit about the organization and how clinical psychology fits into the organization? Yes absolutely it'd be really really nice to think about that so I actually hadn't heard of Maggie's either until I was looking at placements and I had done my second year placement in a neuropsychology setting and worked with my supervisor in that

placement. She wasn't my supervisor then, but I'd worked with her and she'd left to go to Maggie's. And as soon as I saw her name pop up, I was like, I loved working with her. Let's go and see what Maggie's is. And went to see it. And, you know, I walked in and I'd not even been there five minutes and I was like, oh, I want my final year placement to be here. This is a compassionate place to be, which I know is going to be one hell of a stressful year. And this is where I would like to be in that space, feeling contained, feeling supported, challenging work, but going to be meaningful. So Maggie's is a cancer support charity. It was, well, the first centre opened back in 1996 and I think back in 1994 is when they really started planning. There wasn't anywhere to actually be outside of this clinical hospital environment where she could get emotional support. Just someone to listen, someone to talk to in a really nice relaxing environment that wasn't a hospital corridor with neon lights everywhere.

With medical professionals who were so busy but just couldn't have the time to just spend those extra minutes just to be able to talk to people about their experiences and with their families and friends as well and it was through that and her and her nurse and her husband that they started to think about what could this place look like and so the first sadly Maggie passed away the year before the first centre opened and since 1996 it's just developed and developed and it's now there's 24 centres up and down the UK, four internationally with goals and aims to really just get more and more of these many centres up and down the country or the May Cancer Hospital sites. And at Maggie's you can come in at the really friendly environments very homely very cozy the hospital we link very closely with the hospitals and the oncology department to try and build and keep those networks and connections because we know the NHS staff are so overworked

there's under resources that the pressure is so much there that we want to be able to work alongside them and so people come in to Maggie's it can be anyone affected by cancer either the person who's experiencing or family or friends and they can come in and just be greeted and welcomed into the centre make yourself at home here let's have a cup of tea have a cup of coffee have some biscuits or some fruit and we have cancer support specialists who will sit down and talk to visitors and just get to know them if they've got any questions welcome to them to the centers show them what we have sort of offer in a program that might be really helpful encouraging

people to come back and they can be there for they're really skilled clinicians they can be nursing backgrounds they can be radiographers, occupational therapists, often always work within hospital settings, and they know the links with the services. But what we also offer is financial support, and we have benefits advisors, but any questions that we might have in terms of what somebody might be entitled to, any sort of difficulties with

any sort of housings of lots of advice that you can get but then if someone is really struggling with their mental health and their and their cancer diagnosis then if the cancer support specialist feel that it would be really helpful to have some more further support that's when we when clinical psychology comes in and it's not just clinical psychology actually we have counselling psychologists as well and we offer that space to have one-to-ones the people but we also can offer couples work we can offer group workshops as either standalone ones or a course on various different topics of what the people within our areas and our communities are saying that they're really struggling with and tailor that to them.

And we just want to be part of that experience. So you come and see us when you need us. In terms of just being able to pop into the center, a lot of it is drop in. Of course, psychology, we do have appointment. So we do see people within our timetable. But it's one of those things where you can come and use us for however long you need. If you don't need us at any other point, that's great. But when you need us again, you just come through the door.

Come and see us. Come and speak to us and have that emotional and psychology support as well as all the practical support as well. Fabulous. I think it would be a wonderful idea to invite you back on and we'll really think about working in cancer services psychologically. So that might be a really interesting future episode. Sounds like a lovely, lovely place.

And I loved hearing you say that actually you recognised that that was going to be a really compassionate space to help you transition during your final year of training. Could you talk us around your awareness of becoming qualified and moving into a band seven role? Yeah, I mean, wow. It really sort of, you don't really think about it on the course until you're starting to realise that you're working through your final year.

Even when I picked the placement, which was in second year, and I knew that it was going to be my final one, it hadn't hit me in terms of the transition and that it was going to be my final one it hadn't hit me in terms of the transition and what that's going to be like and it really probably didn't even hit me until the thesis was coming to an end because all you focus is on finishing that thesis and making sure it's done getting through the fiver but I think what was really nice is whilst on uni and I know about some of the unis probably do this as well as helping you try and get prepared for it what was really nice was the centre that I was in and I wasn't looking for applying for a job straight away as and when the job came up because I knew that I was going to

have an extended summer but I thought oh I'll wait until more the summer months before I start looking because who's going to hold a job for me for 10 months or nine months? I said, no, they'll want someone now. But a job came up. My supervisor really encouraged me to go for it. I went for it. I was very happy and very honored to be offered that job. And it was through speaking with them about what that's going to look like for when I come.

Like what sort of support have I got in place? What can I sort of expect? Both in terms terms of the induction but what my role will be and because I'm coming in as the only clinical psychologist there five days a week we do have other people like I said we have someone here who's two days someone here's one day but I will be the one who's there five days and what that's going to look like what my responsibilities would be but how are they going to help and support me into that and I was like I said because I was already in the organization it was really nice that the organization where I was at that center started to prepare me through the support with all the staff and then meeting the new teams very gradually and then starting

with a really nice induction where I went up to the original centre in Edinburgh. And it's been really nice. And I have felt through the support and through the open channels of having questions and then being able to just get ideas across and learn a bit more, that's been a really nice transition period rather than just having applied for a job,

not really knowing what to expect and then bump, you start. It's been a really gentle period of where you where I've been learning and able to ask and find out and a really nice gentle induction yeah and I think the right service will wait for the right applicant as well so I know that you wanted to go off traveling and spend some time really decompressing from training after it finished and that was something that it would have been very important to me. Apart from when I qualified, there were no jobs.

And I qualified in 2011. It was just kind of coming to the back end of the recession, really. Started in 2008, which was my first year of training. It meant that I had no job from when I finished in September until December. and, you know, ate a lot of lentils and walked a lot of places and tried to minimize my life a little bit. But it gave me a wonderful time to consolidate what I'd learned and have some downtime. And I've always been a keen traveler. I would have liked to have done some traveling, but I had no money around and I had a mortgage to pay for. So yeah, I think ideally,

I'd always say try and have a bit of time where you can just be you and not have to kind of worry. And also, if you can afford to not work for a little bit you're not using any annual leave so it's kind of a really nice chance to have a bit more of an extended break and when I was in my second year this first placement of my second year someone in the year above got a job in pediatrics to start the next year but this had a whole year to go and at the time it felt like wow but actually if the right job comes up why not apply and figure out the details later but that's actually incredibly supportive and especially if you're moving if you've got a an unconditional job offer it's kind of quite helpful to be able to show mortgage lenders and stuff as well you're like you're gonna be sorted you're gonna be working and you're gonna be working at this level so yeah I really I really

love that the job spoke to you and you know you just went for it I honestly really connect with so many things that you've said there I mean first and foremost I knew going into the doctorate that it was going to be such an incredibly tough three years I mean it's a doctor it's not going to be easy so I already planned in advance and like right I need some time off after that so I had that it was going to be such an incredibly tough three years. I mean, it's a doctorate. It's not going to be easy. So I already planned in advance, being like, right, I need some time off after that. So I had to put money away each month, even just a little bit, over the three years to cover any expenses that I would need

to have a month of not being paid. Ideally, I would have loved to have gone for longer, but you know, money and time, that's not always going to be possible. But I saved all of my annual leave as well for that rest of the year so then i had two months off and it was it was just what i needed because i think that break like i said not only just consolidating but allowing your mind and your body to just actually completely and utterly switch off and relax because it without even

consciously being aware of it you it's been such an anxiety and intense time, particularly when you're going through all, you think it's over when you hand your thesis in, and then you're, oh no, I've got the Viber coming up now. And then after the Viber, you're like, oh no, now I've got all of this paperwork that I need to do by certain days, and then I need to apply for the HCPC to make sure that when I start work, I'm actually at the recognized and accredited level.

So there's a lot of things that are still there bubbling under so that time apart off was so needed and I think you're right I mean you want to be able to apply for something that's the right job and if it's the right job they will wait for you and it wasn't just me on my course there was lots of people on our course that had applied for jobs and they were waiting for them but it must have felt so different for you back in 2011 than when the jobs went there because there was so many jobs coming up i mean i were the year before thinking oh look at all these jobs in in london which is where i was moving back to there'll be none they'll all go and there'll be none left and there was always pages and pages and pages of jobs. So it never felt, I never felt worried that I wouldn't get one, if that sounds strange.

But it must have felt strange back in 2017 for you. Yeah, and actually my final placements in my final year were systemic and then psychodynamic, both in adult services. I think there was some lifespan work in my systemic service. But when I qualified, there was 16 of us when we qualified because someone from the cohort above had dropped down after having a baby but of those 16 people how many people do you think had jobs David when the course finished oh so if I was going to say now I'd probably say all 16 but if I think about back in 2017 and from what you've said, let's go for five? Three.

Three? Oh, wow. Okay, it's even less. Wow. Three. And so it was just really hard going. And it wasn't a case of, oh, there's this job that's come up in an area that is a bit of me.

It was this job has come up I'm applying for it it doesn't matter what it is and I probably felt like CAMHS was a bit of my weakness really I'd done honorary work as a in the brownies and I was I was wise owl in the brownies and so I'd worked with children in a in a fun capacity and then I did placement as an assistant psychologist in a youth prison I'm I'm not cool enough to work in a youth prison is what I've learned and then I did a lifespan intellectual disabilities placement on training and a CAMHS placement and then I did some some work with children's and children and families during the systemic but I definitely felt like it's weird because listening back to myself now,

I'm like, you were really experienced with children. But you know what we tell ourselves? I was like, oh, this is my Achilles heel. This is something that I'm not that good at. But listening to myself now, I can see why my first qualified job was in camps. You almost don't realise how good you are or what, I don't know, what you've got going for you, what your assets are. I think probably until you pass by. So I genuinely, as I reflect on it now, which sounds a bit silly, I felt like it was really fluky that I'd managed to get this job

in Birmingham so I was having to commute 24 miles of each way which was not ideal but I know I would not have applied for that job if if it hadn't been for the circumstances I started that at the start of December 2011 and it was amazing I was working in an award-winning service for patient safety so it taught me just really robust practices for operating a really safe, brilliant, compassionate service but also because at the time it was using the choice and partnership approach kappa it taught me about job planning and managing my own time and not taking on more than I meant to and but also doing your fair bit and making sure that you are you know doing what you're supposed to be doing and and my manager and my supervisor and all of the team were just incredible.

And actually, in terms of the transition, I thought I needed kid gloves. I thought they would say, well, because you're newly qualified, we're going to do this. We're going to do that. They were like, we've been waiting for someone in this role for so long. You're qualified. Like, here's, you know, do it. We trust you. Get on with it.

And that was actually really empowering. I don't know what your experience of that is like. yeah basically in a nutshell I'm delighted and I would not be the same clinician now had I not got that job and it all worked out beautifully and I was able to afford that bit of time off it's a very long chunk that I've just said but I hope it kind of resonated with you it really does the thing that really resonated was about that starting that role and actually whilst it's going to be for me it's been a really nice sort of gentle introduction and yes there are certain things that they said oh and we would like you to be doing this and we want you to be in this giving you a bit of time to set it in it's also nice hearing already straight away and then there's so compassion

so lovely here because they said we know that you've got the experience we know that you've got these skills we know that you can do it do it do it but not wanting to put that huge pressure on you and they sounded maybe like that was for you as well they wanted to do that they didn't want you to feel that oh completely overwhelmed or overworked and it's exactly what it's been like here which is nice because it's not only they know and they're supporting your own belief and your skills and you as a clinical psychologist but they're wanting to make sure that you are caring for yourself and you're not pushing yourself to the limits because they care about you yeah and they

believe in you and hopefully they've met you at interview they like you hopefully you know in the in the certain level i was being interviewed they probably interviewed probably 10 people or something because everybody was desperate for jobs whereas actually when I was in my most recent NHS service sometimes you'd put a band seven out and one person would apply like because there were so many jobs you know and I don't know like if you've got the job, it's because you've met the standard and they think that you're going to be not just a good fit for the clients, but they think that you're going to be a good fit in that team as well. When I've worked on selection panels, actually, sometimes I think about if this person was in my team and I've done this in training

selection panels too. If this person was in my team, how would I feel if I'd forgotten my wallet and I needed to go and borrow a fiver from them? How, you know, is that something I'd feel comfortable doing? Would it feel okay to have them make me a cup of tea or to offer to make them a cup of tea? How would it feel to say, oh, how was your weekend, David? Like, what are you looking forward to? Or, you know, are you going on any holidays?

You've really got to think about this being not just clinical work, but kind of, and if someone's got kind of an autism diagnosis and they might be like, I don't want any of that. Like, you can make a job what you need to have for you. But for me, they chose me, you know. They chose Marianne as well as a psychologist in it it's about that connection with them isn't it you want to be able to have that connection and to have that really nice team dynamic and yes that's that i guess that's really that's about

having the choice i guess for an interview and feeling that they do want you and hearing it as well like they're so they've been ever since the i found out about the the um job offer it's been about oh we can't wait for you to start we're so looking forward to you to start um i had the other sense and being that we're gonna really miss you we're so they're gonna have such an amazing person that's joining their team and it just really builds like you said that a belief in you that actually you are you are good enough for it it was meant to be in a way if you think about that way then you do deserve it and it's really nice it really is a positive feeling rather than going in with all those question marks being like didn't I really

operate you've had all that really nice build-up yeah absolutely and the imposter syndrome is going to be rampant but you kind of want it to be because you don't want to be going in as arrogant and renegade. actually to the children's hospital and work on the kind of advice and support line that also did all the assessments for all of CAMHS for the whole of Birmingham and was exciting. It was daunting, but I learned a lot from the experts there. So the emergency response and assessment team were based in the same office. And so I'd be able to hear all of their kind of decision making but one of my jobs was to talk to either referrers or kind of parents and sometimes young people on the phone to think about whether an assessment was going to be the right thing to do and then I'd get stacks of referrals coming in throughout that point of the day that I was there. And I would need to make a clinical decision

about what to do with that referral, whether it met clinical need for service, whether we'd step it up to the emergency response assessment, whether we'd step it down, whether we'd think about kind of doing an assessment to think about what needs there might be. And it's that clinical responsibility. It's that actually I can decide this all by myself. That was quite hard. And it takes growing into that. But what somebody said to me at the time was, it's okay. You just make your decision.

You say what your decision is. And in those days, I was writing it all. And you evidence the information that has helped you to make that decision. And I still do that now. And even if we're looking at risk, you're thinking, actually, I don't think this person needs admission at this time because of this, that and the other. And to mitigate this risk, I'm recommending and have implemented this, that and the other. And it's just that, you know, if you're in a court of law and you find yourself having to speak to your honour, you just need to be able to evidence the decision you've made and why. Yeah, and I think that's something that's going to be, like with anything, it's going to be time in the role

and building that sort of belief and that trust in yourself. And I know that that's going to be the art of that here as well and all the different types of responsibilities that I'll have. And one of them is about referrals. When it comes to being like, we think it it worries the psychology or do we think that actually we're going to ask for it just to be sort of like active waiting or monitoring and we'll see if that happens or it might be like allocating to different people here who sees them and it's there's a lot there and i think i am fully aware that my imposter syndrome

is going to jump out it's jumped out to me the whole last three years and probably and actually well before that as well when i was just trying to gain experience it's something that's never going to leave i don't think and i think that's a healthy way of having that because like you said you don't want to come in and you i don't think it's you ever want to have been like i know everything because that's never going to be true and i really enjoyed a postgraduate conference that we went to at the doctorate, the uni where I did the doctorate at. And it was a clinical psychologist who'd been qualified, I think, 20 years. And they said, I still feel like I'm an imposter here.

It doesn't leave. And it was so nice and quite warm to hear that. It was like, oh, good. So it's not just us it is going to still continue but then that's the motivation i guess and the drive just to continue and always wanting to be open to learning more and and learning from others and that's what i'd love working in an mdt so like this this um that i'm in now this is an mdt within maggie's but also we're linked with the

mdts within the hospitals and i love that because actually gaining all the different skills experiences perspectives of others can only just make our work better yeah so important and as you're talking i caught sight of my my trophy because recently the podcast has won an award as best best science and technology podcast 2024. And I think if you're struggling with imposter syndrome, just make yourself a trophy. Because I love having this trophy. I might make myself one for best clinical psychologist 2024. You can be 2025.

We'll let you do it for a year first. And then you can be 2025. Well, congratulations, first of festival uh that's really good but that's actually a really nice way of getting out of trying to manage that imposter syndrome is something that they told they actually encouraged us to do it back when i was in talking therapies but it has been something that's actually been quite a reg not not regular isn't that every week but quite frequent within the year of different services i've worked in is whenever anyone leaves you any feedback take it and pop it in like a little folder and then when you're

having a bad day and you're really doubting yourself go back to that and actually look at what people have said and actually it really is quite a nice self-compassionate thing to do as well i've just been able to manage that and that it's okay that we're having a day but it but let's not listen to all them thoughts look at all of this look at these experiences of actually where you are enough you are doing well and you do know what you're doing absolutely i have one as well and i call it the smile file so if you ever need to just like you know feel a little bit better about yourself then you know you have a dig into the smile file. There's actually an episode that's coming out that people will already have been able to listen to on imposter syndrome.

Details on screen for that. But if you search for the podcast or wherever you're listening or watching, you'll be able to find that episode. I also heard you say that you're a qualified PWP. There is an episode that people will have been able to listen to with Ben Olofsson, where we're talking about what a PWP is, how you train as one, you know, all of that jazz. So just another little, you know, it's what I've learned as a podcaster, you have to keep, you know, talking about all your other stuff as well. One of the key differences, I think, when you go from trainee life to qualified life is that certainly from my experience I went from a really supportive tight-knit cohort and a varied week went from you know a Monday and a

Friday were usually academic days and then I had like a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, placement days. And so there was that really nice cushioning of weekend, trainee, learning, placement, trainee, learning or study day, and depending on what stages of the career I was at. I couldn't really believe it when I started qualified life and every day I was in a split post when I first qualified but every day I was working for five days a week and I was having to pay for my own fuels and it was hard it was a hard adjustment so I missed my cohort and I couldn't quite believe I had to do it every day. Is there anything you miss or kind of found surprising about moving? I was also worse off because I was having to pay for my fuel and because I only went from band six to band seven and I then had

to start paying council tax. I was worse off when I qualified than when I was a trainee. But yeah, how about you? Is there anything you miss or anything that kind of was different than you expected? Yeah, there's been quite a few different things that I do miss. And like with you, I really miss my cohort. You know, our cohort started off with 33. We didn't build down in the final year to 28. A few there, a few on the cohort had babies. So we have

a i think there's four or five babies from our cohort now already but i really miss just being able to connect with them and see them very regularly just having someone else you can just bounce to so quickly so you just effort this and just everyone's around and it fell at that tight tight sort of cohort and yes with such a big group you do have the little groups as well of where you feel more closer to but i think i think we all probably really miss that of just having everyone at an arm's length i do feel very lucky that i've had a very supportive math placement very supportive current first qualified role so i think that's really nice to transition to and have that little bit of a um consistency but another thing that i do really miss is um study

days i know i'm not going to get them three days again i loved it i was like oh i could i could get up at like and i could get up at six in the morning if i wanted to finish by 11 and oh got the rest of the day it's great um so actually moving to five days a week is actually quite a lot and as with you about the commute I mean I've lived in Southampton where I've had my car and I've been driving into placement which is always quite nice it gets your attention going

on your way there listen to some music not really that stressful because there wasn't traffic well it didn't tend to be that bad in London getting used to theutes getting used to the armpits in your face again traveling in rush hour it's yeah that's a big adjustment and i already i've already altered that and i've got up early to set off early and also have a nice little walk before

i come in so that i'm not feeling so oh before i walk through the door and so that's been an adjustment the commute the day that the five days a week which has been years since I've done five days because even before the doctor I was on gym four days the cohort and actually I say this and I've always warned like my family and friends and if I ever start talking about this again say no but I actually do really quite miss a bit the research bit as well because you know it's really nice to have the varied role there and yes the thesis is really hard and and stressful but it's also nice to have that little bit of time where you know you've got that time just for the research where you're not having to just have your clinical head on oh yeah several things i do miss yeah um hopefully there's there's lots of benefits to being qualified as well you know it's okay to

have both of those things it's okay to like where you're at but also miss miss aspects of previous important stages of your life you know so i was reflecting on this the other day I wish I'd really connected to the the last moment that all 15 of us all 16 of us would ever be in a room together and I don't think I really did and even at graduation that didn't happen because one person had had to kind of redo a year so we didn't have that then now people have kind of moved as as lives do someone's moved internationally i don't think we're ever all going to be together again and maybe some people wouldn't even want to i'd be up for it i'd be up for it but i just wish i'd wish i'd connected more i think it's all such a rush isn't it in the in the last few weeks where you're where you're vibrant where

you're doing your revisions where you're perhaps going to last minute catch up study things and but before you know it you're done and I don't I just I don't think we got a photo of us all together on our last day like I wish I'd been more mindful of that so maybe someone listening to this will be like yeah that is significant that is important I would like to really plan a thing and maybe get someone to make sure they're taking photos and I don't think we really did that yeah no that is actually really nice to think about I mean we did have a photo on our last day but not everyone was able to attend so actually the last time we were

all in a room i don't know when that was and that's sad to think about that actually but then life happens and people can't always be there but it would have been nice to maybe think about that because i think once survivor happened it was like i think we've only got two more days together it was the whole cohort and i actually wish maybe we maybe we've been able to do a few more things all together over the three years. I look back and think, whilst that's a nice reflection to have also,

people do have busy lives, people work commutes in long ways as well. So that's again, not always possible, but that's why it's also nice to look back and think, I'm going to miss the cohort. I'm going to miss the close-knit groups, but I'm also really glad that we've formed and we've had that time together.

We will still keep in contact it won't be the same but we still will and it's exciting for this new role we're all quite we're all ready we're all there we're all now being this is what we've worked for this is what we dreamed of and we're here now let's enjoy it because yes there's things that we'll miss but there's so many more exciting opportunities to look forward to yeah and you get to be really excited and proud of your cohort as they grow in their careers as well you know people will start to go oh i've got an interview for an 8a or i've got an interview for an 8b or 8c like though and beyond or you know they will be like well you've left the nhs how is that for you to you know to give up

your nhs pension and move somewhere different like you will still be sort of support and you know celebration for each other which is really really nice. Yeah and it's nice to actually hear of all the different roles we went on because that's one of the things I think we were talking about within our last few weeks together where is everyone going what's everyone doing some people who were talking about all the different sort of travel plans or the time off then the jobs we were going into the potential sorts of things that we could maybe look forward to training in later and that's definitely things that i've got is moving forward i've got some goals i know what i want to still be working towards but i'm really allowing myself the time to settle into this role learn what it's like to be a full-time qualified clinical psychologist

before I then start thinking, what's the next step? I want to give myself permission to actually just be and then think about what I would like to do. But I know what my goals are already. Absolutely. Good. Well, I might have you back on

to talk about cancer if you're up for that anyway. But just before we finish, and thank you for your time. I know I have a slightly falsely advertised time and I'd keep you for as well because I've been really enjoying our chat. But is there anything that surprised you

about this transition from trainee to qualified life, David? Surprised at how, for me, how seamlessly it seems to go. I don't know why I envisaged it being more tricky but i think because i was i'd had a lot of support to get to this part and having that time off really did help that actually it seems to go really nicely that's personally that's just for mine i don't know what

other experiences that people may have when they've moved but I think having that sort of open mind of you know we'll see how it goes we will we'll take it each day as it comes and for me that was a really nice really nice transition yeah I feel like I want to ask you which countries you traveled to where did you go for your for your little hiatus so I was very lucky because my mom, she travels quite a bit as well. And so she was in the Canary Islands for six weeks. Lucky her. So I was like, please can I come? And so I went to join her and my stepdad for two and a half weeks and just had two and a half weeks of sitting on a beach, doing nothing.

No emails, no phones or anything like that. It was just so nice to just switch off and then I came back to London for literally 48 hours and then went off to Japan for three weeks which was the most incredible experience completely and for me just such a different culture such a different sort of world and it looked so welcoming so kind absolutely loved it would definitely have already planned to go back again and it was nice to travel around to a few different places and it was the best the best way I could have had to really switch off before coming oh that's that sounds incredible I've never been to Japan actually I

haven't done it but I'll try and get it on the bucket list. Yeah, I loved what you said, actually, that you always knew you were having this period of downtime. And actually, you saved for that. And it made me reflect upon when I was doing my undergraduate degree, I always knew I was going to save really, really hard and have six months to go backpacking. And when it was hard, when I was having to stay in and do my thesis or prepare for my exams, my housemates actually, for various reasons, had dropped down a year. And so I was the only one in my third year,

but I was almost using how amazing it was going to be to be away for six months around the world to spur me through the trickier times and I think that that is something that perhaps people could envisage you know I'm really struggling with that word today but I could really imagine you know using that as a way of managing the stress because you're actually going to get to somewhere really really special where you do get to have that cocktail in a coconut and you know watch the sunset in Thailand or whatever it is that floats your boat like there will be hard times during training there will be hard times during qualified life but it's making sure that you've got good work-life balance to help bolster that i think i couldn't agree more and

i think that's something i've always tried to do ever since when i worked in cams and it was the sort of work we were helped we were sort of supporting the young people with is we don't always have to have something on all the time it's it's not always going to be a perfect happy great exciting day if you can have things in your week, month, years, to look forward to, it's giving you that motivation. It's giving you that oomph. Yes, it's a tough week. Yes, it's a tough day, but look what I'm going for.

And that's what really helped me. I mean, I did have a very tough year in the doctorate, the last year particularly, but it was having these things ahead. We've been like, I know what's coming if I head down get this through you can do it we've all got it and we can it's going to be there for us and then look what I've got I've got and that is going to be when I'm just going to feel so relaxed and I've obviously never slept better in those last two months well long may that last because i think this is why i came since i became a mother and then um

got into my 40s my sleep i looked back on my sleep in my 20s and i was like oh you just didn't know i don't know how good you had it marianne but yes long may your sleep be marvelous david thank you so much for your time it's going to be incredibly useful for people thinking about transition but also using this as a as a kind of gold nugget to head towards if they are earlier in their career and thank you for having me on we're very honoured to be on your podcast with you and if you do want to have another one just let me know i'm very happy to but yeah i really appreciate it perfect i absolutely will do but yeah wishing, wishing you well with this first year of qualified life. May it be really special. May it be containing.

May it help you feel clinically competent, but also happy and like, you know, like it's meant to be. And that it feels like it continues to feel like a pleasure to come to work. Oh, thank you very much. I'm sure it will, but thank you. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much to our guest, Dr. David. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. David. You did it.

You came out the other side. Well done. And thank you for your time. I would love to know what you think to this episode. Please do come and connect with me on socials where I'm Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. Please do come and join the free Facebook group, the Aspiring Psychologist Community with Dr. Marianne Trent, which is the exclusive home of Marianne's motivation and mindset sessions, which happen each Friday at nine. If it's your time and you're ready for the next step, you are ready to start imagining that

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Thank you so much for your time. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being such a loyal listener or watcher. If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guide. With this podcast at your side, you'll be on your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological wellbeing practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no, I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself.

So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist, I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be OK. But trust me, you will not put the book down once you start.