The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - What's it like working in politics as a psychologist?

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Show Notes for The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast Episode 121: Politics, Parliament and Psychology with Brad PowellThank you for listening to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. In this episode of the Aspiring Psychologist podcast, we speak with Trainee Clinical Psychologist, Bradley Powell, who is in his 3rd year of the doctorate and in a fascinating placement, which is certainly different to what you might normally think of, when you hear the world “placement”. Join Brad and I as we delve into the world of Parliament and UK politics, psychology and policy-making. We also discuss the importance of protecting the psychologist title in the UK and the impact of having an unprotected title on the wider public. If you would like to hear how Brad even got into this placement, how he appeared on the front page, and hear about a day in the life of a trainee in parliament, listen on! We hope you find it so useful.I’d love any feedback you might have, and I’d love to know what your offers are and to be connected with you on socials so I can help you to celebrate your wins!The Highlights: (00:00): Introduction (01:42): Bradley’s journey to Psychology(03:12): Imposter syndrome – everyone has them(05:12): The importance of having life on the other side of the doctorate(07:45): The power of psychology in policy making(11:35): What work does a trainee psychologist do in politics?(14:09): Protecting the psychologist title – why is it critical?(17:08): The resistance in not protecting titles(20:11): Learning from countries in policy-making and the role of learning in placements(24:03): A day in the life of trainee clinical psychologist on placement (27:58): The purpose of placements (29:18): Prime Minister’s questions (30:45): Making the front page (33:56): That fascinating feeling of taking it all in (36:17): The extensive checks that (sometimes) happen pre-placement (37:42): The lasting impression of Parliament (39:41): How final year placements dictate your qualifying path as a psychologist (42:09): Summary and close Links:📲 Connect with Brad here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradleympowell/🖥️ Check out my brand new short courses for aspiring psychologists and mental health professionals here: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/short-courses🫶 To support me by donating to help cover my costs for the free resources I provide click here: https://the-aspiring-psychologist.captivate.fm/support📚 To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 📖 To check out The Aspiring Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3CP2N97 💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested✍️ Get your Supervision Shaping Tool now: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/supervision📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist

Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. Coming up in today's episode, psychology meets politics. Join us as we chat with a trainee

clinical psychologist on a really exciting placement in the world of Westminster, UK politics. Get ready as we explore the fascinating mashup of policymaking, mental health and a good bit of political drama. Our guest for today gives us the lowdown on the corridors of power and how carving out a placement in such a niche area has become a possibility. I hope you find this intriguing episode about the intersection of psychology and politics so useful. Welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. If you're new to the podcast or to the channel for that matter, please do take a moment to rate and review, like and subscribe. We create incredibly interesting, useful, engaging content

that helps you be aware of developing trends in psychology and in mental health, and maybe illuminates and explores areas you've not considered before. I'm really excited to bring you today's episode, which is with a trainee clinical psychologist in the third and final year of their placement. It's not your average placement, but it is really, really interesting. I hope you will find it to be so, and I'll look forward to catching up with you on the other side. Just want to welcome along our guest for today, Bradley Powell. Hi, Bradley. Hi, Marianne, and thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here. Oh it's really nice to have you here. I've been so excited looking forward to meeting you.

I first heard about the role that you're doing via reading The Psychologist magazine because I think I saw an article written by your predecessor in your placement but we'll come on to think more about your extra special very exciting very interesting placement in a moment firstly could you tell us a little bit about yourself and what stage of your psychology journey you're at um so i'm currently in my final year of the doctorate at royal holloway and it's quite funny when you ask someone can you tell me a little bit about yourself there was one interview i had previously where i just you know smashed off my career experience and then i thought it was quite a good answer and i got to the end and they said oh but what do you like to do in your free time? But I think really for me I'm in the final year

and currently working in parliament. In my first year I was in IAPT or NHS talking therapies and that was a really good experience for me as prior to the doctorate I didn't have that much clinical experience as in delivering therapy. My experience was more as a support worker, as a research assistant, and then working in a kind of like a strategic network. So when I started the doctorate and going into IAPT, it kind of gave me a really good grounding in how to give therapy. But when I did start, I do remember looking around thinking well i've got nothing compared to everyone around here everyone else has been a pwp before and some people have done like a phd or done amazing work as an assistant psychologist whereas my ap role um i didn't

really do clinical work it was more project related stuff um But I think starting anything new, those feelings of kind of like imposter syndrome, I think everyone has them. I actually had it less starting the doctorate compared to when I started in Parliament and being one of the only psychologists in there. I kind of thought, what have I got to add here everyone else has done politics at uni they've been here for years and I felt like a rabbit in the headlights basically. I'm currently doing my thesis as well so that's due in May it's going quite well I think systematic review is basically ready for publication and then powering on powering on with the empirical paper as well. So generally things are going quite well. Of course, I'm looking forward to finishing the doctorate.

I was kind of visualising that a couple of days ago and that gave me quite a positive feeling. So yeah, it's a pleasure to share a bit of my story with you today and your audience too. Oh, thank you. So it sounds like you're almost daring to see to kind of see where you're going and actually by the time this academic year is out you know this chapter of your life will be drawing to a close and you you know I think certainly having been a trainee myself you at some point you just have to get your head down and just keep

going and just keep going but you're kind to get your head down and just keep going and just keep going. But you're kind of lifting your head a little bit and thinking, oh, there is actually a life on the other side of this. Yeah, the thought of having a life on the other side of this. And I do try to maintain a good work-life balance as well. But in the current phase of doing the thesis, that does become a bit more

consuming. But I do like to stick my head above the parapet and see what's going on on the other side. And I think it's quite helpful for me, or it has been throughout the doctor, actually, because my fiance has been a year above me. So she's's qualified I've seen her living the qualified life and I thought yeah could do with a bit of that two psychologists in one house gosh love that I love some existential conversations happening there I'm sure I also loved that when you were speaking about your systematic review you're like yeah that's ready for publication I love that that's like that is taking control like we are we are going we're going ready for publication I love that that's like that is taking control like we are we are going we're going straight to publication will you do that before your Viva is that kind of the plan that's definitely the plan um and I've heard that getting it published

before the Viva gives you a bit more confidence when you go into it so I think that would be quite a nice feeling but really for me I didn't want to spend all this time doing my thesis and then for it to just sit there if it could be published and for me personally I found once you've written the 12 000 word systematic review you've done the majority of the work you just need to cut it down and submit it and then we can see what their publishers might want changing but um yeah i think for me i've always kind of planned my time in advance so you know months in advance i'll be thinking right this is my time to do this and i try not to go over that i always try to stick to those deadlines and make it happen and so i had it on my radiator October, November, December I plan for each month

and sometimes the plan changes but following that template kind of helps. Amazing gosh you're very driven very self-accountable which is incredible I've really enjoyed seeing your name in my diary for months we planned this in like specifically for towards the end of your placement didn't we so that it would kind of be able to reflect on your journey so um lovely shall we have a think about what your placement is like if someone is listening to this and they're like why is psychology involved in politics you know how's that happened? What would your answer to that be? I think that there's two parts to this answer. So the first part is how has this even happened? So when I first started the doctorate, I spent the previous year working for the Psychological

Professions Network. And I was there at a conference talking about leadership for aspiring psychologists after I did the Edward Jenner program and at that conference my supervisor the only psychologist MP was there speaking at the conference so naturally what do you do after that you network you introduce yourself and I basically said it would be fantastic to come and learn a bit more about Parliament with you. And I put my supervisor and my course in touch and that kind of led to the start of this placement coming about. And it was only really through, I guess, seeing the opportunity and being interested and taking that step forward is how it happened in some ways. But I think there has always been a desire in psychology anyway, that we should be more involved in politics.

And my supervisor wouldn't have been elected as a politician if her constituents didn't think so parliament needed a psychologist too so I think it's definitely helpful for a psychologist to be in um Parliament and for me what I've really got out of it is learning how the system works how to maybe influence some policy and as a training psychologist I think it's really important that we do engage with politics or learn how to influence policy. So imagine you are conducting your research project. Perhaps you could be researching any health condition and you've come up with you've identified quite a novel finding that actually it shouldn't just be published in a journal. This should change some sort of policy. Well, working in here teaches you how maybe you could go about influencing that

policy, whether it's giving you the confidence to go and meet with a politician or different policymakers or asking parliamentary questions and building up that kind of network in the policy making landscape to affect change and that's really important for us as psychologists because the policies that come out of government impact our service users and they impact us so why on earth should we not be in that room trying to make that difference but it is something that we're not learning about at undergrad or masters or doctorate level. But I would argue that it's something we should learn about from an earlier stage in our training. Or just in our general education, you know, I don't feel like I was ever really taught

about politics. I feel like I've been a bit politics thick really um growing up like um i feel like knowing a bit more you know even now in schools they kind of make them watch news round before they go home and i think that's quite useful because they're at least hearing a child appropriate understanding of what's happening in the world and i just i don't think we did that and we turned news round off because it was boring. But they're just, I think they are making children more aware of the issues that are concerning them. So, you know, when we're thinking about key performance indicators

and placement goals for time on placement, I'm guessing a placement in Westminster looks very different than one in an adult mental health service for example. How do you navigate what it is you're hoping to achieve by the time you've finished a placement there? Yeah that's a really good question. So of course I'm not working with different presenting issues or different clinical models. Some of the things that I have been trying to do are more project related. So for example, working on a campaign to protect the psychologist title and thinking about how we could maybe implement that change. So perhaps we can have a conversation after this about how that could pan out. So

planning that campaign, and not just that campaign, but actually helping lots of different other stakeholders who want to change a policy, whether it's related to health or social care. So for example, yesterday, I was meeting with a veterinary group who actually have a similar problem to psychology in that they need to change the legislation. They need to have an increase in the workforce and they're trying to influence Parliament. So meeting with different lobbying groups and just learning how to influence the system is something that's quite important for my development here, I'd say. There's also research projects that we want to get involved in. So at the moment, we are looking at best practice in disability policy across European parliaments to see whether there's any best practice initiatives that perhaps we could adopt in the UK Parliament.

So trying to increase the number of people with disabilities working in Parliament to make it more accessible. That's another project. I mean, it really is quite broad and varied. And another thing at the moment is developing some performance workshops for political candidates, parliamentary staff, and perhaps councillors. And it was quite interesting when I was having the meeting with the university about how, as a psychologist, for me now anyway, you take it for granted about CBT or kind of psychological principles, and then when you start talking to other people about them, about how, for example, our thoughts can influence how we feel and then our results people stop and think oh yeah I've never thought about like never

thought about that of course that's a an issue so delivering some sort of performance workshops and disseminating psychological information there is another thing that I'm working on and of course I'll probably try and write a article for the BPS at some point too. Please do I'll look forward to reading that so for those who are watching on YouTube you will have seen my face light up when Bradley told us that he was working on trying to protect the title of psychologist so that is something I'm passionate about for anyone that's listening to this that's like what do you mean protect the title of

psychologist it's actually currently in the UK totally legal for anybody with zero potentially psychology knowledge or qualifications to call themselves a psychologist and there's nothing that can be done about that and I've been ranting on about it for quite some time but I've taken a very interested effort on social media even within the last seven days of really trying to stir up some support for this campaign of course it's largely professionally qualified psychologists who are getting behind this I do believe later today I even have a chat booked in with a radio 4 producer about this very issue um it needs to happen you know it really needs to happen and my reasoning for why this needs to happen is because um people are out there especially

on social media um somebody's described mental health as being the next gold rush you know because there's such a demand for it and when there's a gold rush people go out there with their pans don't they panning for gold and it feels like that's what's happening with the term psychologist so you get people on tiktok on instagram wherever um punting themselves out there as a psychologist but when you dig um they may have a psychology degree which as we know, is theory based only and doesn't necessarily involve any clinical contact or supervision and certainly no regulation. And they're calling themselves a psychologist and ethically they feel that's appropriate. But of course, what we know is that the general public think that if someone is calling themselves a psychologist, that they mean professionally qualified. And that's where the grey area is for me.

Absolutely. And one of the hard things about this problem is that the people who do call themselves psychologists are well-meaning. OK, maybe there is the gold rush problem, but they're well-meaning. They're trying to help other people but actually if you're not trained in the evidence-based approach and you haven't been assessed and delivering that to an effective level then actually you could be doing more harm as well um and i think it's fantastic that you're speaking to radio for because as psychologists we can want that change to happen, but really the cause to make that change will be so much more powerful if it's the public behind the campaign. And it's really difficult as a member of the public to find qualified professional who's

going to provide the best treatment for your care when everyone's marketing themselves as I can treat this, but actually are they going to be treating your problems with the nice recommended treatments probably not so I think it's really important that we do that work and when we speak with other countries they're completely shocked that we don't have the psychologist title protected so I think it's really a matter of time before we make it happen and we need to do it sensitively as well because academic psychologists people who work in universities naturally they may not want the title to be protected because they've worked very hard doing their psychology degree phd and their research and potentially protecting the title could impact on their ability to call themselves

a psychologist but I don't think we should let that stop us from trying to protect the public from this issue and I'm sure there's ways around of actually making sure that every psychologist can be called a psychologist in a way that's safe and ethical for the public. Yeah absolutely I could not agree more and I's safe and ethical for the public yeah absolutely i could not agree more and i love the idea of getting the public behind what you do so that that you know i think it's probably you know it's like the the drama about the post office campaign that happened recently you know um for the horizon scandal this became a public movement the public were demanding that something be done,

weren't they? I think the problem is there hasn't been big enough case studies to demonstrate why this is problematic currently. I think the more and more the unregulated, unqualified psychologists go on, there will be harm to people as a result of what is being propagated. And I would love to think that everybody has got the best will behind what they're doing. But some of the stuff I've been watching recently are so wildly unethical and non-evidence based that, you know, the passive income products spring up off the back of that and it feels like it's mainly driven in trying to line their pockets rather than genuinely ease the distress of of the general population so i think it's a very it's very tricky and of course

we get lots and lots of resistance for this movement from experts by experience who are of course putting content out there as well but i still think generally speaking a sensitively positioned professionally qualified regulated insured mental health professional is a best place to start with with anything that you're trying to do to to change the way you feel about your mental health professional is a best place to start with with anything that you're trying to do to to change the way you feel about your mental health anyway this is this is a slightly protracted um I'm just very passionate about this and of course it really is political um I know that Australia and New Zealand their title is protected and I think that's possibly more recent. I don't know if we, do we ever piggyback off other countries' guidance and policies?

I don't, does that happen, Bradley? I think it's funny. Actually, I was at an event last night. It was actually about finances and how Australia developed a really innovative system for reducing the complexities with certain financial exchanges. And off the back of that, we're trying to implement that in the UK because it will save time and money. So I think that there's definitely a case of learning from other institutions and places and seeing how we can do what we do better. But it is quite funny as well, because working in Parliament,

when I first started, I kind of felt like I was learning a completely new role. So I came in and I had no, I didn't have my kind of CBT crutch or my, you know, my prior foundations that when you go into a different service, you know how the NHS works, you kind of know what you'll be doing. So I was really trying to immerse myself in this political parliamentary environment and taking in all of this knowledge. And about two months in, I received a message from my family friend who is trying to find a psychologist. And they showed me the link to the person that they had been seeing before who said they could no longer help them. And this person, unfortunately, wasn't really providing the evidence-based approach for the difficulty that they were having. So I kind of provided a text

message summary of what I thought would help. And after I sent it, it was probably a bit of an essay on that text. It kind of reminded me of how lucky I am to actually be trained as a psychologist and to be able to share that information. And it kind of regrounded me in Parliament as well, because I'm coming in here not as someone with a politics background. I'm coming in here with a clinical research background. And I think that adds something so much more as well. It really does. And I think it probably helps quieten down the imposter syndrome a little bit

because you're not being expected to go in there as a fully fledged established politician. You know, you might well have had to go suit shopping before this placement. This might not have been something that was already in your wardrobe for for this placement like but you are seen as the mental health expert and that's that's why you're there you know and you're allowed to be the expert in that area and learn and grow in others definitely it's funny how you say that. So my first day, going for the placement visit, I get on my smartest work outfit that I would have used previously. Very rarely wear a blazer for a placement day. Maybe I've done that once for a staff party. So anyway, I put on my chinos,

my nice shirt, my blazer, and I get there and I see Big Ben and, you know, it's a fantastic environment to be in. But then I realised looking round, ah, everyone else is in suits. I think I'm underdressed. So I think there's something to be said of, you know, dressing up, wearing the suit. It does make you feel like you fit in a bit more as well. So, yeah, did um go suit shopping

after that um but yeah it was uh it was a funny funny way to start the placement i always prefer to be overdressed for any occasion i never like to feel like you're like oh i've got this horribly wrong i'm in my joggers oh no no this is terrible um all right so I've got so many questions I want to ask you before I ask you my slightly more flippery silly questions um could you give us another example of kind of something that you do on day to day on placement days are they all in person placement days in your placement yes they're all in person um it's so it could it could be quite varied but let's say as an example um meeting so for example there could be a an issue in society that people are trying to change. And one way of going about trying to

affect that change is to ask parliamentary questions, to write early day motions. And these are things that kind of raise awareness about an issue in parliament. So you could, I could meet with a stakeholder, understand the problem, and then draft this question to be submitted to be answered by a politician. And likewise with early day motions as well. There was another time where I've had to write a speech on a topic that would be delivered and not being an expert in the area, it was delivered and you're working with the stakeholders as well to get their views on what they think should be incorporated in the speech. was delivered in you're working with the stakeholders as well to get their views on what they think should be incorporated in in the speech and that was quite a nice use of my

my writing skills really there's also lots of events going on in parliament so you know every every day there's there's all sorts of different events but one of the ones that i went to recently which i really enjoyed was an awareness raising event. And as I went in there, I was speaking with clinicians and people who have been affected by this condition as well. And it really reminded me of, as a psychologist, you really can understand the problems that a person has been through, possibly a bit more than other people without that clinical background, or you're able to validate the kind of difficulties that they have had and build those relationships up quite easily. Not easily, but it's helpful having that kind of psychological background

there. If you are as a constituent, you could also write to your MP as well and get in touch with them. So sometimes a constituent might write with certain problems, maybe they're having an issue with accessing NHS appointments, and then you can kind of liaise with them and with the relevant service to try and make that change happen and that's more of the psychological type of work that we can do here and outside of that as well sometimes my friends and associates might want to come and see parliament so I've given them tours before and it was quite funny actually on one day we were sat in the house of lords and the lords is um quite an impressive room to sit in um and my friend peers over the balcony because you're kind of out of the way and he goes well that's lord cameron there brad and i go i don't believe you and he goes no no honestly look and it was the first day David Cameron had been made a lord and was delivering his speech so it's really like it's it's really varied the work

that we're doing there and it's quite fascinating walking around the estate the kind of sense of history and awe is is really powerful I've become a bit habituated to it now so that's what's nice to do at all and be reminded of how lucky I am to be there. And as I've been walking around, I have had a few smiles from people. And I thought, oh, why are they smiling at me? So, yeah, you see lots of people with impressive careers as well. So it's a really great place to be working. I do feel lucky.

Sounds amazing. And it sounds like you're actually watching history unfold. You know, it sounds like a really great place to be working I do feel lucky. Sounds amazing and it sounds like you're actually watching history unfold you know it sounds like a really incredible privilege was it a very popular placement did you have to fight people off for it or because you kind of found your supervisor were you first in line? I'm not too sure I think as. I think one of the requirements is, as a training psychologist, you must hit, and I know you know this, but you must hit all of your competencies by the end of training. And as I started my first year and I met the supervisor, and that's when the placement started being formed, I knew exactly what I wanted to be doing in my final year. So that didn't necessarily guarantee that I would be able to do this placement. But I did have that prior connection and the motivation to go out and try and hit all of my competencies before my final year.

And I was quite lucky, I think, really being in a placement where I was able to work with some older adults in my adult service I was able to work with some of the other competencies in my forensic placement so I think I was really lucky with the placements I was in it aligned well but also looking for those opportunities and trying to make it happen to make sure that I did hit all of my competencies as well. Amazing. So you had your eye on the prize you wanted to get and so made sure that you'd met your milestones before you got there. One of my questions was going to be, have you been in the House of Lords? Have you been in the House of Commons? I think you're like, yeah, loads of times. Yeah, I have been a few times. Recently, one of the hard debates to go and see is Prime Minister's Questions is naturally the busiest one, and you actually need to get to book tickets.

But I was able to make it recently. There was one spare seat left on that day, and it was quite an eventful debate. Yeah. But there's so much history in the commons as well. So, for example, if I am walking around and giving a tour, before you walk into the commons, there's a part which was actually hit by a bomb in World War II.

And rather than completely recreating the archway of this door, they've remade it out of the rubble to represent resilience. So there is history and you do get to see lots of the estate um yeah sounds just so fascinating i'm reading a book that's actually set in world war ii at the moment um it's historical fiction but i think yeah it's just so so interesting so interesting have you met the prime minister i haven't met the prime minister no but um if there's an opportunity to do so then um then that would be fantastic um just um talk rolling back to the house of lords as well when you walk behind the lords actually there's a part in in my little

script for a tour um where you get in there and you say now just to let you know all those years ago you're now stood on the spot with Guy Fawkes laid the gunpowder and every year before the parliamentary session commences the basement is checked to make sure there's no gunpowder in there as well so um um so that was just another point about the lords and it's very glamorous inside it's more glamorous than the communist chamber actually um and whilst i haven't met the prime minister there was one day when there was lots of paparazzi outside of parliament and i thought this is a bit odd i just rushed into the

office and did some work and it got to lunchtime and I thought oh better get outside get some sunshine when initially when I first started I wasn't leaving the estate I was kind of just doing my work but actually going for a lunchtime walk is something that's quite important to me so I broke the mold and I started building that into my routine and as I left the office I came in through another entrance where there was so many paparazzi here. As I'm walking to the building, someone turns around and goes, whoa. So they mistook me for someone else, but I still made it to the front page of the paper.

No, I'm joking. I didn't really, but that was quite a funny moment. It's not every day you walk past. You've been papped. Yeah, it's not every day that happens. No, it certainly isn't. And as you were talking, I was thinking, oh, I wonder what the House of Lords smells like, what the House of Commons smells like. Does it smell like leather

or does it just smell like lots of sweat and people that need a shower? How does it smell? No, well, it's, of course, there's the history within the whole parliamentary estate. There isn't really a distinctive smell, but there are really good services within the whole parliamentary estate there isn't really a distinctive smell but there are really good services within the parliamentary estate lots of restaurants lots of cafes there's even a place you can get your haircut so I actually had a parliamentary haircut recently I didn't ask for you know the politicians cut I kind of went for my usual style so yeah it doesn't have a smell no I didn't not quite but yeah it was yeah there isn't there isn't a smell necessarily but there is a sense of you know there's lots of meetings going on and there's a sense of there's

there's lots of stuff happening if anything there's a sense of there's lots of stuff happening. If anything, it's a surprise there isn't smell of, you know, sweat and things like that. Yes, it sounds like really fuzzy, it sounds alive, it sounds vibrant, you know, and it feels a little bit like when you go to an arena venue and there's all those shops and cafes and stuff out just outside that you can kind of so you don't ever need to leave you know it feels like they've created a town in westminster itself definitely and one of the funny things is i didn't actually realize that from one of the buildings there's a tunnel under

the road which enables you to get into the more um yeah into the kind of parliamentary estate where the the westminster hall and the commons and the lords is and on that first day when you go under the road and you see the gargoyles and you see the arches it's's, it was, I kind of had to pinch myself in some ways because it was such a, yeah, an amazing experience. And when you do step outside of the estate and you see the London Eye and the river, it's just such a nice place to be working right in central London. So I try to make more of a mindful intention of just taking in the surroundings inside the estate and outside just to really ground myself in that as well so if you like mindfulness I think it's a brilliant place to practice because you could literally spot something new every time you're

walking around it really does sound amazing and it's making me think of the first time I ever got my first badge that said assistant psychologist and I was working for St Andrews Healthcare at the time and they used to give out these really beautiful gold metal badges so you put on your shiny gold metal badge it said assistant psychologist and I just couldn't believe that my swipe card would get me into this incredible building because it was it's in a really really historic building and I'm feeling like the same is true of of you know having a swipe pass that gets you legally into the into this really amazing building full of full of history full of it either past now or unfolding

right now it sounds yeah like just lots and lots of pinch me moments it's funny actually when I received my pass and I could walk around on my own and because if you don't have a pass you've just got a visitor's pass you need to be accompanied and I finally got my pass and I thought well I can walk around on my own I'm not sure where I want to go if I'm going to get stopped there's men with guns everywhere men and women with guns and I thought no I just need to go out this way even if I walk the wrong way I'm sure it will be fine and I'm still here to tell the story so that's fine. That's really cool when I started working in a youth prison, I actually wasn't allowed to work there to begin with, because I had to have Ministry of Defence clearance, where they went through every single reference, including my primary school, to check that I was who I said I was, and that there wasn to say that I actually was travelling the world when I was backpacking for six months.

That literally couldn't be a single gap that wasn't unreferenced. Did they do something similar for Parliament? Or are they a little bit happier for you to float under the radar? No, it's quite an extensive check as well. I remember I shouldn't have been surprised, actually, but it was a bit when I had to fill in this kind of security form, I had to message my parents and find out where they were born and a few extra details. And I thought this is, it's understandable, really. It sounds like you would be able to get in here as well, Marianne, if you ever fancy a change of career, you've already got quite an extensive security clearance by the sounds of it so

um yeah one step closer bear that in mind for when i'm prime minister um what will be your lasting impression from this placement with you do you think as you consider it now obviously it may change in future that's a really nice question to be asked because for me I always like to think about how would I like to think with the end in mind, what would I like the final outcome to be? And I think in terms of my lasting impression of Parliament, I think it will be one of feeling very fortunate to have had the time working in there to be honest just from knowing how it works and I can imagine in the future visiting London if I move out of London hopefully with a family walking around and thinking oh yeah worked in there let's try and get a tour and it'll be quite an exciting place to to visit as well and one that was quite perhaps formative for me in terms of shaping the way that I want to work

as a psychologist as well because it's given me quite a lot of exposure to different areas not just psychology and health but a understanding of different professions and I think there's so much out there which as a psychologist I knew from 16 what I wanted to do and that was kind of my tunnel vision on that goal but actually it's kind of taught me there's so much out there so I feel yeah very fortunate to have had the experience. Oh that's a very humbling end that's really really lovely. Yeah it's just been an absolute pleasure to speak with you and I think people will take many things from what we've spoken about but I think if you are in

a professional qualification where there are optional placements where you can choose what you want to do you don't necessarily have to pick something out of a book like if you know where you want to go you can create that for yourself and I think when I was in training some people even had out of catchment placements all they had to be able to do was evidence that that wasn't available in their locality. And so if people are interested in creating their own placements, I think what you've really nicely demonstrated, that is possible, even if there is no precedent for it. I think it's something that you need to be careful with because of course not everyone can start approaching supervisors. I think that will become quite uncontaining. But I

think like you said, if there's not what you want to do in your area and that you're quite confident that's what you want to go into, then I think there's a strong case for making that happen because I think there's a lot of research which shows where you where you spend your final year placement or research that dictate not dictates but there's a high likelihood of entering working in that place which as I said that out loud I've started thinking about what that means for me not sure if that's where I'll end up in the future, too. Yeah, I'm trying to think what my final year placements were. They were psychodynamic with adults and then systemic solution focus.

Lifespan service, I would say. But actually, my qualifying job was determined by the fact it was recession and there weren't any jobs. So I ended up in CAMHS for four years, but had a delightful time in doing that. Anyway, I digress. It's been so, so lovely to speak with you. Please do consider coming back and chatting to us when you're qualified so that we can see where you end up and whether you do kind of go further down the political route um you know it'd be fascinating to see the next stage in your journey well yeah so thank you so much for having me marianne and um i think i'm a year-long placement as well so seeing how i've finished the the last couple of months will be helpful i mean unless the election is called early which i

think there's's the working assumption apparently is it will be in the second half of this year, it should be therefore a year long placement for me as well. So it would be fantastic to come back and give an update both at the end and in the future as well. So thank you for having me, Marianne. Oh, thank you. I'm wishing you the very best with getting your thesis finished and passing your viva with flying colours i too have heard that getting your systematic review published before your viva is pretty good way to go so yeah wishing you luck with that i think it's your organizational skills that are gonna probably make that happen um you know other methods are also available and are okay too but yeah thank you so much

for your time bradley yeah it's been a pleasure gosh what an absolute privilege to speak with bradley i feel like i've learned so much and i'm so energized and you know i i'm totally gonna try and book in to go and see him and have my own lovely swanky tour of Westminster. You know, he thanked me for what I've been doing these last few years in psychology for aspiring psychologists. And that was, that was humbling. It's lovely. It's lovely to think that what I do is useful to you as my listeners and my viewers. And I would love your thoughts. I would love your thoughts I would love your feedback you know the idea that I'm helping you in any way is just the biggest privilege the biggest pleasure because I know I would have found this sort of content really useful when I was an aspiring psychologist

heck I find it useful and interesting now you know so yeah thank you for allowing me to keep doing what i do keep gracing your ears and if you're watching on youtube your eyes um with with this content please do consider also the aspiring psychologist collective book the clinical psychologist collective book and of course if it matters to you that people are able to access qualified and regulated therapists mental health professionals please do also bear in mind the brand new book called talking heads which is people's guide to help them find qualified and regulated therapists in the uk if you have got any ideas for future podcast episodes please don't be shy come and connect with me on my socials

i am dr mar Marianne Trent everywhere. If you'd like to get involved with the debates about psychologist title being a protected title, please do come and find me on Instagram specifically and LinkedIn, which I am Dr. Marianne Trent in both of those places, of course, too. Love to hear your voice on this. Let's see what we can do, as Bradley suggested, to get the public behind this cause, because that might just be the difference that makes the difference. One of the reasons I do what I do is that I passionately believe in psychology as a professionally qualified profession. I don't want you guys to get to be qualified or to get further along your journey and to feel like it doesn't matter or that others are getting, you know,

more kudos for what they're doing when they are not at all qualified or experienced, you know. So I care about what you do. I care about you being able to ease the distress of people you work with as well and about you having a long happy healthy career in psychology that's the dream right but I will look forward to catching up with you for our next episode of the podcast which as an mp3 is available from 6am on Mondays and as a YouTube episode you get a little sneaky extra it's usually available on Saturdays so I'm also Dr Marianne Trent on YouTube please do subscribe please do like please do tell your friends take care guys with this podcast that you're sad to be on your way to being qualified it's the aspiring psychologist podcast with dr marianne trent my name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological well-being practitioner I read the clinical

psychologist collective book I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become a clinical psychologist it just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me of confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself so if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay but trust me you will not put the book down once you start