The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast - Working in the NHS pre, during & post training

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

Show Notes for The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast Episode: 28: Working in the NHSThank you for listening to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. Often aspiring psychologists work in the NHS. The NHS funds the Doctorate in Clinical Psychology, and the placements are often NHS placements. Today I talk about my experiences working in the NHS as an Assistant Psychologist, Trainee and qualified Psychologist. I talk about what I loved and what I found hard! I hope you find it helpful!The Highlights: 00:28: Almost at the 8,000 downloads and 6 months anniversary! 01:33: Introduction to today's chat02:49: What is advantageous in an NHS role?03:55: The perks of smaller practices VS the NHS05:20: My role as an AP in a Forensic setting08:00: Could you take a break pre-training?10:59: My time as a trainee13:32: Non-NHS placement as a trainee14:59: Break and testimonial16:52: Research and other perks of the NHS19:50: Balance and good people around you!22:53: Once I qualified23:55: What I miss about the NHS26:03: Time for ourselves27:52: Feedback and membership opening on the 1st July!29:14: Thank you!Links: Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her including the upcoming aspiring psychologist collective book and the aspiring psychologist membership on her linktree: www.linktr.ee/drmariannetrent To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 Like, Comment, Subscribe & get involved:If you enjoy the podcast, please do subscribe and rate and review episodes. If you'd like to learn how to record and submit your own audio testimonial to be included in future shows head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/podcast and click the blue request info button at the top of the page.

Hi there, it's Marianne here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to quickly let you know about something exciting that's happening right now. If you've ever wondered how to create income that works for you, rather than constantly trading your time for money, then you'll love the Race to Recurring Revenue Challenge with my business mentor, Lisa Johnson. This challenge is designed to help you build sustainable income streams. And whether you're an aspiring psychologist, a mental health professional, or in a completely different field,

the principles can work for you. There are also wonderful prizes to be won directly by Lisa herself. And if you join the challenge by my link, you can be in with a chance of winning a one-to-one hours coaching with me, Dr. Marianne Trent. Do you want to know more? Of course you do. Head to my link tree, Dr. Marianne Trent, or check out my social media channels, or send me a quick DM and I'll get you all the details. Right, let's get on with today's episode. If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guide. episode. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast.

Thank you for listening and thank you if you have previously listened to other episodes as well. We are nearing our 8,000th download in a little under six months. And it's all thanks to you, my very loyal listeners, or maybe even my brand new listeners who are finding this content really useful. I would love to know what your favorite episode is, and I would love for you to share it on socials and tag me in you can do that on your stories in Instagram by tagging in Dr. Marianne Trent you can do that on LinkedIn as well I am Dr. Marianne Trent you can do it on Facebook tag me in there as Good Thinking Psychological Services or if we're connected on Facebook you can tag me as Marianne Trent as well. Tag me in all those places that would also be wonderful but tell people why you like the episode

and why it resonates with you. Encourage others to listen too as it really helps me know that this content is useful and beneficial for you and that you are pleased to be in my world. What am I going to talk to you about today? Well, today I'm going to talk to you about my experiences of working in the National Health Service, both as an assistant psychologist, as a trainee psychologist and then as a qualified psychologist too. There is no real plan to this episode. It is going to be a case of, you know, winding her up and watching her go, see where I go. But I hope you'll find it useful because I know for many people who are striving to progress their career in psychology it feels like you know working for the NHS certainly if you want to

get onto clinical training and be funded by the NHS to train it feels like acquiring some NHS experience prior to commencing your training is going to be beneficial for you. With that, I would say it's not always necessary. So you know that I, if you've been in my world a while, you'll know anyway that I previously worked at St Andrews Healthcare. And actually, there are people I worked with there who got on to professional doctorate courses having only ever worked in St Andrews but usually under the supervision of a qualified psychologist so for me I think it is more about the quality of your supervision and the type of work that you're being asked to do that is psychologically informed and, you know, just absolutely on model for what you'd be doing really in your realm of professional psychology. So, yeah, I don't think it's so much the

organisation, although, of course, the ability to work with MDTs and large teams and, you know, to hold caseloads and work with a variety of clients and professionals too is advantageous. And that is something that the NHS does afford you. So I did work for local government before I started working for St Andrews. And, you know, I think working for any large organisation that's well established and has lots of policies and procedures and, you know, where things don't happen overnight can be really good experience for boosting your your own CV and your skills and your talents, but also for knowing how large organizations work. So similarly, St. Andrews was a large hospital and it's since expanded to have other locations as well and so you know that is yeah it is a large organization and they do work differently than smaller ones so my own organization good thinking psychological services is very small comparatively and so I can do things in a really adaptive and if needs to be reactive way in the way that I found to be

quite frustrating that you couldn't do in the NHS towards the end of my time there. You know I can come up with different techniques and approaches and roll with them the same day if I want to and you just can't do that in the NHS, and that is frustrating to someone who wants to innovate and can see ways for changing and, you know, for clients to have better experiences. But this is a whole separate debate. So my first experience of working for the NHS was when I was an assistant psychologist and the way that the funding pots work means that it was a slightly different employing sort of base than where I was actually working because it's kind of divvied up so I was working for what was Milton Keynes Hospital

but I actually wasn't working on the Milton Keynes hospital site I was working nearby at a youth prison so at that point it was quite novel for the health care systems to be operated by the NHS but certainly that one was and so it was a really nice opportunity to get an NHS funded assistant post. But I was working under the qualified direction of a qualified forensic psychologist, but I was very clear that my job title was assistant clinical psychologist. So I was doing clinical work and not stuff necessarily indicated with the young person's index offence. More about their wellbeing and their, you know, I guess their relationship to trauma as well, which of course is indicated often with the index offence. But

similarly to a previous episode where I've mentioned the wonderful QC, Chris Dawes' book Justice on Trial, you know, there's a lot of trauma within justice systems, both adult and young people. So I actually only worked for the NHS for six months. So I started in February and I left in August to go off travelling because I got a place on the doctorate scheme and I just you know got all footloose and fancy free and went off and had a really lovely time with another friend who was actually going to be starting her own clinical doctorate course as well so yeah if you are listening to this because you are going to shortly be starting as a trainee psychologist, then is there any possibility that you could have a bit

of time off between these important chapters of your life where you don't necessarily need to be thinking about what this gap looks like on your CV and what you might be missing out on it's more of a chance of how can you replenish yourself how can you reward yourself for this time that you've really spent focusing on a really you know really important destination so yeah again it's a bit of another aside, isn't it? You never know where I might end up. But, you know, if you are going to be applying for clinical training next year, or any type of professional psychology training, if you do learn in spring or summer, that you have been successful, then how could you free yourself up to imagine that you might spend

some of that time? You know, you could dream big, you know, you could dream a little round the world trip. Obviously, this is finances depending, but also dependence depending as well. So if you are a parent or you've got people that you care for that might be that might feel slightly more aspirational but you know are the things that you would like to do to help you celebrate that phase in your life could you I don't know book yourself a few spa treatments or beauty treatments or go and stay with friends in a different part of the country or go and you know have a couple of days in an Airbnb somewhere nice and by the sea to really just recharge yourself and to celebrate you and your well-done-ness but I feel like this is a whole separate episode

that probably needs to be recorded doesn't it so. So I worked there for six months and then I went off travelling. Yeah, that's why I got distracted, because that sounded more exciting than working for the NHS. And it was. But yeah, I did take a lot of value from my fellow nursing colleagues and my forensic psychology supervisor. It was quite a small organisation to work for, quite a small base I should say that I was working for and that was very different than having worked for a large

hospital with many different divisions. So you know just having to get used to a little bit more of, yeah, just a smaller way of, yeah, just thinking and operating. You might just have heard that little ping from my emails that meant I forgot to I forgot to shut my emails down before I filmed. So, yeah, I'm sorry about that. I will try and edit it out if I can but it might well just stick around so training for me because I was a trainee clinical psychologist was three years of being employed by the NHS at band six and for me going from band four to band six that was quite a nice pay rise at the time. So working for the NHS meant that you obviously have to be an employee for them and adhere to their trust values and you know their their principles and their protocols and their procedures and you need to be you know a good

employee you need to be thinking about you know where possible trying to keep your sick leave absence as little as possible because they're going to be looking at your attendance and you know the same is true even with when you are a trainee psychologist if you are being employed that they have to make sure that you are well enough to be in your role and that you are you know creating good value for the NHS because there's work that you need to be doing you know know, the core work. So they want you to be seeing clients on placement and ideally helping those clients to move towards their goals, but also helping the service move towards its goals as well.

There's, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of balls to juggle when you are, um, a trainee psychologist. Um, you know, you've got to juggle the responsibilities for your own line management. really crossed paths other than him signing off on my expenses every month for driving about here there and everywhere and parking costs and things but yeah I don't think I ever had to see him for anything else at all during my three years and I think even during those three years I think the original chap retired and then someone else came along and I don't think I met him in a managerial capacity as well but during training you will usually have placements certainly if you're doing clinical psychology you will have placements but those placements might not all be NHS. You might have a specialist placement for example that is outside of an NHS service

and so you'll have a supervisor who is not an NHS member of staff in that in that set of circumstances in the most part so certainly all six of my supervisors were NHS supervisors but of course my course team were not NHS staff they were academic staff at the university and so you're juggling a lot of different you know requests and responsibilities and professional procedures, really. And that could just take a little bit of kind of figuring out and that can just take a little bit of figuring out really as you adjust to that. So this feels like it's an episode on gearing you up for, you know, professional qualification as well um you know it is many things to many people at this point we're just going to take a short break

and I'll be back very soon If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guide. Filled with lessons and experience that will help you get qualified. So come and take a look. It's right here in this book. It's the Clinical Psychologist Collective. It's the Clinical Psychologist Collective is a fantastic read for aspiring clinical psychologists. This book provides insights from real trainees and qualified psychologists. They offer their advice, hope and encouragement to aspiring clinical psychologists.

This book helps to put in perspective the variety of journeys people take to become qualified. I would recommend this book to anyone interested in the D-Clinci. Be your guide Filled with lessons and experience That will help you get qualified So come and take a look It's right here in this book It's the Clinical Psychologist Collective It's the Clinical Psychologist Collective. Boom. Okay, so one of the things I liked about working for the NHS was that it was such a big organisation.

And you could usually find someone who knew the answer to your question, or who had already tried to do the thing that you were doing. So you could kind of network and liaise with them. Sometimes that could be a little bit of a sticking point, because you know, people want to follow, you know, what's gone before it it but if there's been a million unnecessary steps that go before it that can feel a little bit frustrating but you know there's plenty of opportunity for carrying out research within the NHS as well because it's probably highly likely that your trust has a research department or research lead and so with your line management or supervisory approval you can often make contact with them to see if there's any research that you might be able

to to help support with and of course because it would be a trust initiative, you might well be able to get that sorted out within your work time. So you'd be getting paid to do research or thinking about whether you could bring research to your service and be paid for it. So what is not to like there? One of the other things that I think makes it really nice about working for the NHS is that, you know, in my experience, certainly, people were largely working, you know, nine to five, which meant that there would usually be some sort of opportunity for sitting down with your colleagues and having lunch. Now, I was a big believer and still am a big believer in having lunch. I put it in my diary every day and always have done because certainly in the NHS, you don't get paid for that time, but you do have to take it.

And so I took it because because it was good for me. And because I need to eat, you know, I'm not the sort of person that can, you know, work on pasta, hungry, grumbling stomach. I, productivity plummets quite rapidly if I'm hungry. And my patience certainly dissipates too if I'm a bit hungry. So I always made time for lunch, but I had a very good impact on my colleagues as well because they would often try and come and join me for lunch. And when I was in, you know, when I was in a local service with some local shops, we'd instigate, you know, chippy lunch every now and then as well and that was very popular but yeah trying not to eat at your desk is key try and make sure that you do have a break because this is difficult work that you are doing as an aspiring psychologist and so

having some time to be mindful about something that is non-work focused, non-work related, will really help you to decompress and to come through these difficult times, you know, with, you know, more, with better well-being, I hope. And, you know, within the NHS, I had a lovely time connecting with, you know, nursing colleagues. And one of my absolute favourite things about working for the NHS is the people you meet along the way. And I was talking to one of my friend's mums just yesterday. Hi, Angela. Name check her there um and talking about um the wonderful people that you do meet in um in mental health but also physical health because you're meeting people who are fellow nurturers and they really can help shape you and look after you and look out for you and I know that my um my friend and ex-co now, Jane, wouldn't mind me name checking her. But I was really pleased to have met her along my journey into, well, that was when I was a qualified member of staff.

But you can never meet enough good people who warm your soul and who get you and you know that's one of my favorite things about working in this industry of ours is the people that you meet along the way and those that you choose to keep along the way as well you know you can snap snap them off from whatever job that you're working in and you know mentally take them with you sometimes even physically take them with you, sometimes even physically take them with you, but you can still keep them in your world, either by getting together in person or connecting, you know, virtually via email or socials as well. And yeah, I've just had some wonderfully nurturing supervisors along the way as well. And I most definitely kept most of those in my life too so those are my top tips for surviving the NHS which sounds a bit bleak I know but you know make sure you're taking time for yourself and you know really seek to make connections with the people around you especially those that make you feel

good I always when joining a team would shadow other members of the team. And when people joined the team, I would have them shadow me, even if they weren't working in psychology. And I know that even recently, an occupational therapist I'd previously worked with had said that she still found that session that she did with me incredibly fascinating and that she thought about it really often so you never know where the impact what you might have from the people that you work with so I did work in the NHS once I qualified I worked in a children and adolescent mental health service for almost four years. And I had a baby during that time as well. I got married during that time.

And then I continued to work for the NHS. And I had another baby in my second qualified role in adult mental health. So, yeah, I did make the decision to leave the NHS, but that was only after I'd tried to negotiate dropping down to less days so that I could focus more on private work. But we couldn't make that work. It wasn't agreed. And over time, I just thought, you know what, I think I might want to leave which felt really challenging it felt um yeah really scary but also felt really exciting um and I'd already been working in a private capacity for a little while um by the time I went by the time I went fully fledged private um so I think it was probably getting on for about 18 months by the time I left and so I knew I could potentially make it work and I haven't looked back but that said I do miss working

with my team and I miss probably the more informal chances that you have to get together with people. You know, I don't miss meetings, but I probably miss the beginning and the ends of meetings where things became, you know, they were just, you know, warming up and checking in with each other. And, you know, just making sure that everyone's OK and, you know, a little bit of, you know, water cooler chat and humour and, you know, all of that. You know, what did you watch on TV last night or did you see Britain's Got Talent? Yes, I did. You know, that's all part of being a team as well. And I know that when my children were homeschooled during the pandemic, I was, you know, quite surprised how little work they were doing. You know, I'd imagined, perhaps naively, that when my children were at school, that they were doing, you know, six hours of education, apart from their lunch break and their play breaks. But it really wasn't. It was very much more low key than that. You know, it's probably only about two solid hours of work.

Maybe even if that the rest is, I don't know, I guess, consolidation and, you know, discussion. But actual focused work was very different than my own experiences of being at school. And, you know, I think when we look at the way that people are working, not to quote Boris and the cheese, but the actual hard work that we're doing on any given day, when we look at that in hours is, you know, it's a little bit different with us, because if we're doing client sessions, then of course, you've got those client hours, but you've also got the admin that goes with that. But if you're in an admin role, you know, it might be that, you know, you're not working solidly seven and a half hours because there's kind of time built in your day for flex to be able to, you know, spend time with colleagues and, you know, to be able to make cups of tea and things. And I'm not disparaging in any way the way that you're working, but I couldn't say hand on hand that I work around the clock. And I've created my job to work, my business to work in the way that I want it to,

so that I have now got time to be able to to go and do my personal training sessions in my work time because I recognize that it's so much more likely to happen if I do that whereas if I leave it to the evenings or the weekends it just ain't gonna happen and so yeah I think within large organisations like the NHS, they've obviously got standards to meet, they've got targets to meet, and you will probably, as an aspiring psychologist, find yourself having to be accountable to those standards and those targets. But there's not usually an expectation that you'll be working with your nose to the grindstone um you know for seven and a half hours a day but that said i know that many people who are certainly aspiring clinical psychologists are finding that the expectations of them for their face-to-face work um are great and that does lead to burnout you know um maybe there needs to be a bit more uh you know

flex for human time and human connection time so i would love to know what you think to anything that i've spoken about today um i would love to know what your favorite episode of this aspiring psychologist podcast is. We have got the next batch of applicants in the aspiring psychologist membership coming up, opening on the 1st of July. So if you'd like to be on the waiting list, ready for when that opens, ready for us to guide you through this next application season then do check out the details in the show notes come on over and like and subscribe to the good thinking psychological services youtube channel won't you because you know good stuff happens on there and you can also listen to the podcast episodes there too. Have I got anything else to tell you? You can, of course,

still check out information either to buy the Aspiring Psychologist collective book when it comes out, hopefully in October, or if you have got interesting stories to tell we are still accepting submissions and details of how you can make your submission are included in the show notes right thank you so very much for being part of my world and for listening and don't forget that if you've got any questions for me for this special Ask Marianne Anything session that is coming up on the podcast, then you can record your question. Surprise, surprise by following the details in the show notes. I'm going to finish off with the Ask Marianne Anything jingle and then you will be able to listen to the podcast jingle I will look forward to catching up with you very soon take care and stay kind to you bye I wish you all the most to ask her anything.

Questions and answers. Questions and answers. Questions and answers with Dr. Mary Trent. If you're looking to become a psychologist, then let this be your guide. With this podcast at your side, you'll be on your way to being qualified. It's the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast with Dr. Marianne Trent My name's Jana and I'm a trainee psychological wellbeing practitioner. I read the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. I found it really interesting about all the different stories and how people got to become

a clinical psychologist. It just amazed me how many different routes there are to get there and there's no perfect way to become one and this kind of filled me with confidence that no I'm not doing it wrong and put less pressure on myself. So if you're feeling a bit uneasy about becoming a clinical psychologist I'd definitely recommend this just to put yourself at ease and everything will be okay. But trust me you will not put the book down once you start.