The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - 1st Annual Hall of Very Good Induction - which non-HOF players are worth remembering?

Episode Date: June 30, 2021

When the subject of potential Pro Football Hall of Famers come up, the response is sometimes "Nope, he belongs in the Hall of Very Good." So what would such a Hall actually look like? Robert Mays and Nate Tice each bring their inaugural inductions into the Hall of Very Good. Which players deserve a spot? Let us know on social media!Subscribe to The Athletic using our discount at theathletic.com/footballshowSPOILER LIST REVEALHALL OF VERY GOOD Class of 2021Nate - Kevin Williams DT VikingsRobert - Charles Tillman S BearsNate - Matt Birk C RavensRobert - Brian Waters OG ChiefsNate - Mike Alstott RB BucsRobert - Nick Collins S PackersNate - Corey Dillon RB Bengals/PatsRobert - Tony Romo QB CowboysNate - Patrick Surtain CB Dolphins/BearsRobert - Lance Briggs LB Bears Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays joining me today. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Doing well right before the fourth. You got any big plans? Are you staying in Chicago or what's going on?

I really don't have any huge plans. We got some dinner plans on Friday with friends. And then Saturday, we got some plans with friends. Then Sunday, I think I'm getting brunch with my mom and her husband. But nothing crazy. And then I assume I'll be at the group. grill on Sunday and whoever wants to come over can come over. How about you? Yeah, that's kind of it. Nothing really Friday, Saturday, but then Sunday having the friends over and kind of trying to

break in the new place and kind of like I would see how my hosting abilities are because I've talked up, talked up my hosting abilities for years and years. Oh, once I get a place, yeah, I'm going to be great, you know, whenever I'm the friend at someone else's place. So I got really up my game and see how I do on the fourth. We're both in a similar situation with with new houses that we feel compelled to host people at, even though, I don't know. I'm like, I'm a little apprehensive about it every single time. Because it's not furnished yet. That upsets me. It's like, I wanted to be done before people are over there, but you can't furnish a house all at once. Yeah. And my girlfriend keeps trying to tell me that and I keep not wanting to listen to. It's like, no, I want to buy everything right now,

even though that's completely unrealistic. Every time someone comes over, it's a guided tour. It's a, it's very much, yeah, you are on rails on this tour. Okay. And nope, don't open that door. Don't open that door. Don't put that door. Oh, here, check it this out. Yeah, the The bathroom's clean, right? Yeah, so that's kind of what ours is right now. Even getting this office to look presentable, like, you only see the top half. You don't see the bottom half of this room right now because it's a mess. That's what I finished first.

I wanted to get this done first. So, Fourth of July, I think is relevant to the conversation here because we are in the dregs of the NFL off season. The NFL is in its very sleepy time. Everyone is gone. There's nothing happening. A lot of people are on vacation. So I wanted to do something that was completely removed from even the current. NFL, even though we've been looking back a little bit.

I wanted to go way, way back. Every single time you make a case for somebody to be in the Hall of Fame or an argument for someone to be in the Hall of Fame, there's someone on the Internet who inevitably says, that guy shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. He belongs in the Hall of Very Good. So I thought it would be fun to do the Hall of Very Good, to do a first class for the Hall of Very Good. And so, we've talked about this a lot over the last week or so.

the parameters associated with this. And they're a little bit complicated, but I want to lay them out for people just so they understand what we were doing and why. These are not guys that we think should be in the Hall of Fame and that deserve cases to be in the Hall of Fame and just have been overlooked for whatever reason. That's another podcast for another time.

So there are guys in here that will be too good for this conversation even though they're not in the Hall of Fame. I'm talking about guys like Andre Johnson, Fred Taylor, Simeon Rice. Those guys are not here. People that have been finalists or semi-finalists for the Hall of Fame are not going to be included here. So these are guys that probably don't have a realistic shot of ever getting in.

Even in the next five to ten years, they will likely not be Hall of Famers. But we wanted to recognize them in some way, whether their career was cut short because of injury, whether they played a position that maybe isn't as valued or for whatever reason they're not going to be Hall of Famers, but we still wanted to talk about them here. So this is similar to the Hall of Fame. Five years removed from their career. So 2016 was the last season that I used. And that's what we're going to do.

We're going to present five guys each for the inaugural class of the Hall of Very Good. Love it. I love it. The HVG. Legitimately was just a shameless nostalgia play. Like, that's the only reason I wanted to do this.

It really was. Because we love talking about guys from like 1995 through 2010 on this podcast when we We were the age. We're like, we're teenagers, we're in college. And they primarily were watching the central time zone. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Guys that were just people we loved watching growing up in like our formative years as football fans. And that's what we're going to do here. So I want to start first. I mentioned a couple of those guys. But were there any guys that you felt like were on the edge and you just said, you know what? Too good. I just think we cannot include him here for the spirit of the exercise.

I'm glad you said Simeon Rice in your intro because that was one. I was going to hold on to until the very end because that was one. I was like, because he is extremely good. He should be a Hall of Famer for all intents of purposes. He just never got the recognition for whatever reason. Like he really didn't. He was a top five pick, three time pro war, one time all pro and three times second team all pro.

But the thing was, he ended with 120 sacks, 122 sacks. And like he just gets no Hall of Fame buzz at all. And he was just a speed. It's because he was a speed rusher back when that was considered almost like a backhanded compliment when you were just like, oh, he's a. Pass rush only guy, but he finished with 122 sacks. I also think it's because by the time he got to Tampa Bay, he was like the fourth or fifth banana on those Tampa Bay defenses, which because he's overlooked by so many

other guys, think about the guys that have gotten in on those defenses. John Lynch, Warren, Sapt, Derek Brooks, all of those guys were more prominent than him. Somebody else that was on my list that I think could probably be, you could make a case for him as a Hallfamer, so that's why I didn't include him here, was John Abraham. John Abraham's career stats are unbelievable, but I just think he's too good for this exercise. And the first guy that I thought of for this

that I ultimately decided he's too good. I think that he was too good and too prominent was Justin Smith. But I honestly think that five years from now we'll probably have to include him here to remind people that he should be in the whole thing. Yeah, because he even in his time, like, yes, in, I'm not trying to like sound like include,

like just like a bubble. here, but it's like in football circles, everyone was like, oh, my God, he's one of the best players, one of best defenders up front. But there was one of those, it's just not, maybe just his name is Justin Smith and maybe just that's why it's no one recognizes. And just his play style and all that he just never got that national buzz that like some of these guys get like, I would say, man, I just, I don't want to throw him out because I don't know how you're going to go about it.

But like, Reggie Wayne was one. Like, I was like, he's way too good. Way too good. Way too good. But it's like, you know, he's going to get in the Hall of Fame and due time. He's way too good. Leroy Glover was way too good. And then Ronde Barber was one.

I had to actually just make sure, like, just because he's like the barometer for me. It was kind of like, that's the cutoff as a Ronde Barber. He's been a finalist, though. I think if they've been a finalist. Yes. I think that's tough to do if they've been finalists. Oh, yeah. So the other guys that were in this conversation to me, Andre Johnson, I think too good.

I don't know if he ever gets in, but I think that there were a lot of stretches where he was like the second or third best receiver in the league. Absolutely. To me, I think injuries are about. what's going to keep him out because his career stats, the counting stats aren't as good as he probably need to get in. But I think he's right there. I think Jimmy Smith and Fred Taylor both are just a little bit too good.

But we're going to have some of these conversations about potential Hall of Famers on a different show. But we just wanted to throw out some of those names so people weren't clar like, what about this guy? Too good. If you're curious about it, if you're wondering why we didn't mention someone, the answer is probably because they're too good. Round down, round down. Yes, round down.

It's round down on it. The other one that I thought, the group I thought was interesting is looking at guys that three years from now might be in this conversation. A couple of names I wanted to throw out that I thought were perfect here. I think Robert Mathis is going to be right on the edge, if not too good. Jamal Charles, I think is going to be right on the edge, if not too good. And then two more that I had Josh Sitten. Nice.

And I'm. curious about this one. Because I think he might be way too good. Do you think Jari Evans is a Hall of Famer? He doesn't get the buzz. I don't think so either. Yeah. But no, good.

Yeah, there's a good call. If you look at his career, though, I mean, his career is incredible. I know. Sometimes you look up and you forget how you forget how consistent some of these guys are. And then you look at their stats. You're like, oh my God, like 10 and a half sacks year after year or just like productive. Play 16 games, 10 straight years. And you're just like, that's kind of like looking back at the.

time is never you talk about that upper tier, maybe one or two years in that upper tier. But kind of like my cutoff was like if you had spent a presidential term as like the best at your position, like that is kind of or best or top three, I should say. That was kind of like you're too good. If you spent more than that. Yeah. Like that's fair. I think that's fair.

I tried to do that at least because there's one guy. The one guy that we've discussed a lot already before before the shows even started just via text, I'm sure like might as well start it off talking about it, right? Let's let's do it. Let's get to it. Okay. Who's your first one? Because it's Kevin Williams.

And it's hard because we've now, we talked about it. He's in all decades. He's too good. I have to disagree with this. I know. And this was kind of, it was so hard, but I want to talk about him. That's why. But all decade team and the odds, you know, five time first team all pro, which, I mean,

that already just broke my first rule of more than four years, four years right there. But just his versatility. You played for 13 years. He only missed five games. Like he was a pass rushing end. He played, he shifted into a. five tech he's played three tech he played nose for a few games like he's kind of just did everything but his like transition of his career turning him from this kind of like all around player to this run-stopping

behemoth like and just athletic and just just a tough out basically he's the best way to put a tough guy to block and he's been honored obviously he had five first team all pros he was on all decade team but it's kind of like he's not talked about enough um so that's gonna be my homer pick and that is my one gonna be my one exception to the rule is kevin williams and i know you're already gonna gonna say breaks everything right there. So he was not a semi-finalist for the Hall of Fame this year, but I believe it was only his first year of eligibility. I think so.

So it's not as though he's been looked over all these times. I have to think being a five-time first-team all pro and that he eventually gets some real consideration even if he doesn't get in. He will. So if you look at it, there aren't that many modern-era defensive tackles that have gotten into the Hall of Fame. Like Cortez Kennedy is one. But other than that, a lot of the guys at that position played a while ago.

I mean, there's some current players that are obviously going to get in. Warren Sapp, obviously, is somebody that did. But, I mean, there aren't that many of them. So it's not that easy to get in at that spot. John Randall is another example. But, I mean, those are huge sack number guys. The sack numbers, exactly. They were both big, big time sack numbers.

And John Randall, you know, he had national recognition. just being a Nike commercials with Fav and all that. That stuff helps. It really does. Because you can get into the people in the football circles minds, but it's really hard to get into that national brain trust. If you're not a QB or not like a big fantasy putting up points, remember, oh,

there was game winning touchdown, the game winning interception. It's like you have to put up sacks and just numbers because it helps arguments just for people that are justifying putting somebody in the Hall of Fame. It just helps for people. Do you have a receiver on your list? No. Me neither because it was hard to come up with one for that exact reason.

It feels like the receivers that you put in this conversation by virtue of having the numbers are probably going to get recognition or they're considered those they should be in the Hall of Fame guys like Jimmy Smith or a couple of those guys that are right on the edge. So it was hard for me to find a receiver for that exact reason. So all right, let me throw out my first one here. We'll stick with the just Homerific picks. My first one is Charles Tillman. And when I was doing. this exercise, he is the person that I had in mind, right? Charles Tillman is not going to go to the Hall of Fame. I mean, he was, I believe, only a couple-time Pro Bowl. He went to the Pro Bowl twice in a decade-long career. But if you think about what Charles Tillman was over the course of his

career, a singular player, unlike really any other corner in the entire NFL, and I think I prioritize that in conversations like this. Were you just in a tier all your own in terms of play style? And that's exactly what Charles Tillman was. So between 2003 and 2015, Charles Tillman forced 44 fumbles, which was second in the NFL in that 13-year stretch after Robert Mathis. There was no other non-pass rusher in the top 10. The next non-pass rusher in that group was Charles Woodson with 23. So Charles Tillman had twice as many forced fumbles over that stretch than any other non-pass rusher in the entire NFL. NFL. And so when we think about Charles Tillman, obviously that's the first thing that comes to

mind, right? It's the peanut punch stuff. It's now copied by so many guys throughout the league just because volatility and turnovers have to become the way you have to play defense in an offense forward league. But I really think he was underrated as a corner. He was so perfect in that defense, in that Lovey Smith defense, because when he could play cover two, and even when he could play man, he was so physical. He wasn't the fastest guy, wasn't the quickest guy, wasn't the quickest guy, but when you could really muscle up people, he could do that like a few other corners in the NFL.

And it was two guys specifically. Remember that fade to Randy Moss's like here in 2003? Do you see me start sitting up? Because I was about to talk about that. Yeah, when he ripped it out of his hands? Oh, do I remember that? Yeah. And that was that moment where he kind of came onto the stage

and it was like, oh shit. And there are people associated with the league back then that were in the Bears front office that just loved him. I mean, Chris Bauer, like Charles Tillman was his guy before that draft. He loved Charles Tillman. And watching him for his entire career was incredible. And I think he was underrated so much throughout his entire time of the Bears. And it's funny that 2012 might have been his best season.

And there were two games from that year that stick out to me. One was that game against Tennessee where he forced four fumbles. He forced four fumbles in one game. I remember watching that game and I was just laughing by the end. Every single time the ball hit the turf. It was insane. And then they played the Lions on a Monday night. And what he did to Calvin Johnson in that game, that's right.

It's those Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss type guys, he could play against them in ways that very few corners in the league could because he could just, he wasn't going to get out muscled by those guys. He had one against Dallas, too. That was awesome. I think it was a Sunday night football game. It was that one. He had one of that game, too, that I just remember vividly because it was kind of like Dallas was getting a little, little momentum going. And all of a sudden he just popped it. It was just over.

I think the offense scored. And the next one, Briggs had to pick six when they, like, drove down. down and it brings had like a pick six. I was like 80 yards. Yep. Yep. And it was like boom, boom. Just two turnovers just like that.

That was that bear's defense. That was an incredible defense. But peanut tillman, it was just awesome. He was a, it's a narrow band of time that he could have been a very good player. You know what I mean? Like it's just perfect situation, perfect time period of the league. And it's like he got it. He got it for that, you know, that that chunk of years when Lovie Smith came there especially.

And it's like, yeah, awesome player. I love, I love peanut tailman. There will be more Bears conversations over the course of this list. And I will justify. them. You watch me justify them. All right. Who's your second one? I know. I'm going to keep it up. I'm going to go Homer still. I'm just going to knock them both out. I'm going to go with Matt Burke.

Great one. Matt Burke is one of my favorite players I've ever been around, but also just players to watch in the game. And kind of a funny story. He was a left tackle at Harvard. He's from Minnesota. He's from St. Paul area. Same high school as Joe

Maurer. And he goes to Harvard, left tackle, great prospect. He's like a six-round draft picked the same draft class as Randy Moss, 1998. And my dad moves him to center. He was like, he's still to this day. So it was the greatest offensive line workout he's ever had. And moves him to center behind Jeff Christie for two years.

And Jeff Christie, it was such a transition going from Jeff Christie who looked like Jason Kelsey, even tinier than Jason Kelsey. He was like 278 playing center and pulling and doing all that stuff. And all of a sudden here comes Matt Burke at six four, 320 pounds. Yeah. Big neck plate, big, he had the bar down the middle face mask. And I really want to say it's the first. kind of modern center that I can like picture him and it cruz you know cruz is a little smaller though

but just one it's just getting a big guy that can move but just so smart obviously he went to harvard but just having that the past protection they did then it was like he was able to do so much and dante didn't have to do anything because burke was just so smart pointing everything out and honestly like Alex mac is the best modern comparison because that was just a similar type of player Alex mac's a little more athletic but burke could just do that stuff and was a maller as well but it was just awesome one of my favorite players I've ever been around just so much fun to talk football with and someone I've known for a long time too. But yeah, Matt Burke is probably my other Homer pick that I'm going to knock out. I don't think I have any more after that.

I have always impressed by guys who can switch teams and just never miss a beat. And he went to Baltimore and just instantly helped solidify their offensive line for those couple years, which I am impressed by. How close were you to try to put Dante Culpepper on this list? Very close. I considered it. I considered it. Because there's people forget that 04 year, man. I mean, he was incredible that year. And the thing, I went back and I watched a lot of Dante Culpeper before we did this, I ultimately did not put him on. I do have a quarterback, but it's not Dante Culpeper.

And the thing that I think I even forget, the arm is undeniable, right? Like, we know that he could just launch the ball out of the stadium in a way very few guys ever could. I remember talking to Todd Downing for a story I wrote about the best quarterback receiver connections over the last 20 years. And he told me about Dante and Moss and just watching those two guys. And just watching Dante throw the ball, just in terms of pure distance and putting the ball down the field, one of the best deep ball throwers in NFL history. But I think what gets overlooked is how incredible of an athlete he was early in his career, especially at that size. I mean, not just he could really, really run. I'm not talking about Ben Rothesberger extending plays.

Like, he could take off down the field at like 240 pounds. It was ridiculous. His first start in 2000 against the Bears. He had three rushing touchdown. touchdowns. And it was like, I mean, this is crazy. And one of them is, you know, red zone because he like couldn't read anything. Then he like barely watched film probably. But it was just, you know, with him, it was exactly what you said. And also, uh, in terms of how accurate he was. Uh, he set some completion percentage, I think in college came up for a season or career. Like he battled Steve Young or something like that. But he was just unbelievably accurate and just yeah, could launch it downfield. And that Earl, would always talk about it was only court. It was the first quarterback he ever had to get worried about trucking him. Like actually, lowering his They're the same size.

They're the same side. He was legitimately 265. They had to like, my dad always had to get on about weight because he would bounce between 265 and 275. I mean, running. That's insane. And the only thing was just he had the tiny hands. That was the one detriment is he had a lot of fumbles.

But Dante was insane, man. Dante had a couple of years where he would just do things like the deep ball stuff. I talk about the sound it makes like when everybody would stand up at the Metro. Yeah. But it was almost so automatic that it was like I got spoiled like just thinking, oh yeah, deep balls aren't one. out of five. Like they,

with Dante, they're like 50, 50 balls truly like even every post route, everything to Moss. And it was just how accurate he was. There's a game against the Saints where he threw on the back corner to Moss. That was like,

it's one. Oh, that's my favorite one. That one was like a rocket ship taking off. I remember that, that one was incredible. When I went back and I wrote about them, that was my,

excuse me, that was my favorite one that I saw. I absolutely love that one. All right. So you just gave your overlooked offensive linemen. I'm going to do the same. Love it. Mine is Brian Waters.

Nice. So, I just think that that chief's team, I mean, I feel like people, that team is going to be lost to history just in terms of how good those offenses were because they fizzled in the playoffs. So from 2000 to 2010, the chiefs were the most efficient rushing team in the league by a wide, wide margin over that 10 years stretch. That's the entirety of his career in Kansas City. Undrafted, was on the Cowboys, got released. They sent him to NFL Europe and then he came back for the 2000 season, essentially became a starter for a decade plus at that point. The Chiefs led the NFL in Russian DVOA in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and we're third in 2005.

Unbelievable. And in the same way that a guy like Simeon Rice is going to get overlooked because of the people around him, the fact that Willys Shields and Willie Roefer on that offensive line, Brian Waters is the forgotten player among that group. But when you watch him play, he was so good. I mean, just climbing to the second level and just the movement skills. he makes the position look easy in a way that I really appreciate. And the way that a guy like Marshall Yanda does, just the ability to understand leverage and just how quickly to come off stuff. And when he got later into his career,

I watched the game that the Chiefs played in 2010 against the 49ers earlier today. And watching him play against Justin Smith was great. But at that point in his career, the Chiefs are running a lot of like delayed runs and draws. And his ability to just throw guys by, use their momentum against them. just the savviness that he developed later in his career was incredible, but he could also go toe to toe with Justin Smith, who was probably the strongest interior alignment in the entire league at that point.

And then my favorite thing is that he gets done with the chiefs in 2010. His contract is up. He leaves the chiefs. Phone does not ring. The Patriots call him a week before the season starts in 2011 when Dan Connolly gets hurt. He goes to New England, switches to play right guard for the first time in his career with a week of prep, starts 16 games, plays at an insanely high level for a 2011 Patriots offense that breaks a bunch of records and goes to the Super Bowl.

Like that guy made football along the offensive line look much, much easier than he had any right to do. Those chiefs teams, especially with Trent Green at quarterback, there was people who remember they were a juggernais. They were incredible. They were absolutely incredible. But Tony Gonzalez, I mean, they were monsters. And yeah, there's a reason they had Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson like just like without missing a beat at all.

Like, you know, like when they just went back to back and it was just now they're just turning out 1,200 yards, 14-hundred yards rushers like where the backups look great. That's not by mistake. But no, great pick. He was on my list as well. So I'm glad you. I'm glad you brought him up as well because I want to. He was one of your five? Yeah.

Oh, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, five. He was on the next, the next up list. Yeah. Oh, that would have been incredible. Okay. Who's your next one?

But he was on it. He's in red. uh okay i want it there's a lot of different directions i want to go but i'm just going to go with oh man this is tough i'm going to go with the bane of my my childhood mike holstott wow okay all right because i don't think he'll ever get in and i he will not get in yeah exactly but man it just i mean those NFL central embassy central years were just the worst with mike all stop because just seeing especially with the viking not having great defenses then it was just it was just awful. It was just how many times it was like a third and two turned into a 15 yard gain or like a fourth and one they're milking the clock and they turn into a 20 yard touchdown. It would just be the there's just be nightmares. But kind of an iconic player like look and play style wise. Like everyone remembers Mike Allstott. You remember number 40 and you remember the big grill face mask. I just I like watching them. I would always trade for him when I played video games because I love Mike Allsott. And he's like the last of the classic fullbacks because like like back of the day like a fullback was actually maybe your main running back. Like just.

just how they titled positions. Like it was, you know, half back and, you know, fullback. So it was like he was like kind of that last fullback where it was like he blocked. And then on the next snap, he was, you know, he was still getting like 12 to 15 carries and a couple catches, you know. So just that kind of last of a generation type of guy. And I just love Michael Stott. So I wanted to throw him out of here.

So not a lot of people know this. But I had a brief dalliance with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers when I was a young person. Oh, wow. For about a three to four year stretch where I, I, I, I, left the Bears as like a seven and eight nine year old. And it was mostly because of Mike Allstott. Because he was from Joliet and then he played at Purdue. So he's like a Midwestern guy that was right when the Bucks got their new jerseys.

It was like right when he was coming into prominence. He was like 97. That was his first year as an all pro. So I, I loved those Tampa Bay teams. I was like I had a Mike Allsought jersey. I had a framed autograph Mike Allsot picture in my room when I was a kid. I mean, he really was.

So I was very, very into those Tampa Bay teams. And I eventually was like, you know what? It's time. I'm going back to the Bears. But those like late 90s, early 2000s, bucks teams. And it wasn't because they were that good yet. It was before they got really good. But they were in the NFC Central.

So I watched them a bunch. And so that was when I was going to a lot of Bears games. And I was watching them play the Bucks a lot. So that happened. It's a little known fact about my life that I cheated on the Bears for like three years with the Buccaneers. I'm glad I can bring up old flames for you. Thank you.

Thank you. I really appreciate that. I met him years and years ago when I was a kid. And like him without pads was still one of the most shocking things I've ever seen in my life. Oh, his traps were just monstrous. Yeah. The guy looked at, yes. And just like seeing him in person, it was just like, oh, my God, you're exactly how I pictured you.

Like just a square. And yeah, but yeah, my number 40, man. And just seeing him like also like sometimes like he would have, actually, I don't know, I want to have a spoiler because this might be another guy I talk about. but seeing him like just watching highlights and him just bouncing off guys is just like one of the most fun things to watch especially how modern NFL is seeing like 22 personnel on first and 10 it's just it's just great to watch I wanted to run the ball because of my call stop but unfortunately that was I did get to play a little bit of running back in like sixth grade I got to I got to run the ball a couple different times but my time as a running back and skill position player was very short lived all right let's stick with NFC Central NFC North guys here my next guy is Nick Collins. Okay. Nick Collins is somebody that I think a lot of younger people probably don't know who he is.

I'm sure, like, won't know who he is in the future unless you're a Packers fan and maybe your dad or your brother regales you of stories about like the 2009 Packers, but was incredible for like a three-year stretch. He had 17 interceptions between 2008 and 2010. He had seven picks in 2008. He scored three touchdowns. and he was just one of those guys that could play center field and make an incredible amount of plays on the ball.

I mean, during that stretch, it was him, Ed Reed, and Troy Palomalu were like the safeties in the NFL. And then he had that neck injury in 2011, and that was essentially the end of his career. At his peak, when you watched him play, this is a guy who was a converted corner who ran 435 at the combine coming out of Bethune Cookman. He was like 210.

Yeah. So he played safety, but his range was, out of control. There was a pick that he had against the Ravens. I can't remember what year it was. It might have been in that 08 season where he was on the right hash

and the Ravens ran a flea flicker and he had an interception outside the numbers on the opposite sideline somehow. The amount of ground that guy covered and when he picked the ball off in his mind he was going to score. And like those Bears teams were like that.

I always appreciated players like that. He had that same mindset that Ed Reed did every single time. the ball was in his hands and it was just awesome to watch. That was one of those guys where as a Bears fan, I just couldn't help but love watching Nick Collins play. There was a lot of those Packers players that are like that for me. It's so true.

It's so true. Oh my God. Like Al Harris, man. I love to hate him. Like that was he was even like like, I mean, he was okay. I mean, he was pretty good. He was a good starter. But he wasn't like some like all all star.

But to me he was like, that's the guy. I always had to watch him in KGB. Those guys, man. I was like that with Colin Jenkins. Colin Jenkins is just like a mindlessly good player for 10 years. There's some of those guys. You just because that's the thing. You watch them twice a year.

And then you also, because if you're in a playoff race, you watch their other games. So you get to know everybody in the division when you watch them year after year after year after year. Yeah, certain guys just become like, I hate that guy. A lot of slot receivers become that too when they're there for like six years,

just catching first downs and one after another, those guys too. Did you have anybody that was like injury concerns that you just thought, hadn't didn't play for long enough and that's why you considered throwing them on the list. Yeah, injuries, but I kept him off, but injuries, but also he might have been too good was Peter Bolware. Oh, yeah.

That was a name I came across and doing this. That was one. I was like, man, I rewatch them. It's fun going back and watching a lot of these guys because now I kind of know it in a different sense. And it's like some of them you get a new appreciation for because you watch them. You're like, holy shit.

They were dominant like every snap. Like those raven, watching the 0-1 Ravens again or 2000 ravens, I should say. that was something. There were a couple teams that were more prominent as I went through this and I thought they would be. Those Ravens teams definitely were. Chris McAllister is a name that I considered. Chris McAllister was incredible back in the day. And another team that I had a lot of guys that I did not expect were those early to mid-2000s Jags teams.

And the position specifically was the Marcus Stroud John Henderson defensive tackles. duo. When I was younger, I used to think that that video of John Henderson getting slapped in the face before he went out of the field was the coolest thing in the history of the world. I was like, that's awesome. It's terrifying. I've seen it in a person. It's terrifying.

Those teams were cool, man. They were. Those teams with those two, Mike Peterson, Rachine Mathis. Reggie Nelson was a young player on those teams. And then the offense, like David Garrard was fun during that stretch. D, Mercedes-Luess, Fred Taylor. Oh, yeah. I really, I enjoyed those teams.

I was convinced in 07 when they played the Great Matt Jones, when they played the Patriots, and I did not like the 2007 Patriots. I was like, they were just too good. I did not like them. And I was convinced that the Jags were going to beat them in the divisional round that year. And because for whatever reason, I was just convinced it was going to happen. And that was the game where Brady completed like 21 of his first 22, passes that game. It was insane. They tried to play quarters, I think, against them against that offense.

And it was like, let him have it. And he was just hitting seam ball after seam ball after scene ball. Well, that was the thing back then, right, is that if you played zone against him, he was just going to slice and dice you to no end. Oh, yeah. Like, the Steelers try to do the same thing to him back in those days and it just never worked. Like, they were just no good answer. And it was just, they would just high low you to death. Like, it was just pick your poison. So if you run quarters, they would just run mills on you with moss going deep and somebody working inside on it. It was, yeah, they just, they crushed you. no matter what you read.

That game was vivid. The week before they beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh, and that was like one of my favorite, like, sporting watch experiences. I remember it was the day before I left for London and for my semester abroad. I remember vividly. Okay. And I watched the Jags game in London.

That's why I remember it so well. The game was so great. It was so awesome. But yeah, though those Jags teams were flawed. They really were, especially how they played because it was like, it was pretty old school with having six, seven, 340 pound detackles and having two of them. Super tough.

Just super tough guy football. And also the uniforms were a big help. When they wore those all black uniforms back then, coolest looking team in the NFL, especially the Ravens. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And those playoff games were night games. Yep.

That's why I was just like, man, that is a great looking team. My high school team wore all black uniforms at home. It was the greatest decision. If you can wear all black uniforms and you don't do it, you're just leaving it on the table. That's a terrible misstep. It's an automatic.

It should be an automatic. Who's your next one? Oh, man. This guy might be a little, a little too good for this discussion, but I have to because I enjoyed watching him so much. It's Corey Dillon. That's right on the edge, but I'll allow it. I know that, especially when you said Fred Taylor, I was like, okay, it's same notch, same notch. But clock killing Corey Dillon, man, I loved just complete gameness, big dude with size and speed combo.

Actually, rewatching him, kind of Nick Chubbish a little bit has the big stiff arm and kind of and just, and where he's bigger, body about 225, 2.30, but like kind of has that great start, stop and feet and kind of just that natural feel. It's just he played for the Bengals, which doesn't help. And then also just, he wasn't very friendly, I think with the media. So it kind of didn't help either. But going to the Patriots, you know, kind of he had the big year with them, kind of tapered off after his career. But, you know, for guys, he only played for 10 seasons, but there's only a few guys above them, not in the Hall of Fame, that have more careers than him, like Adrian Pearson, Frank Gore, Fred Taylor and Stephen Jackson. So I kind of feel.

or he might be that notch below so we can include it. Stephen Jackson was right on the edge for me. Stephen Jackson is a name that I considered, but was right on the edge for me. These three backs, I just wanted to talk about all three, though. It was like Fred, Stephen and Corey Dillon. Like I was like, I'm glad all three got to mention of this because it was like that, those three were that tier where I was like, ah, man, maybe a little too good. But Corey Dillon. Stephen Jackson played on those terrible, terrible Rams teams.

I was looking at some of his numbers and some of the supporting cast on those Rams teams. In 2007, that was the year where Orlando Pace got hurt, so Alex Barron had to play left tackle for the entire year. Alex Barron led the league in penalties as an offensive lineman, I think three years in a row, which is really, really difficult to do. That's hard. And that year, like, Richie Incognito even got hurt. 37-year-old Todd Stucy started like eight games for that 07 Rams team. Stephen Jackson was just running into brick walls. He was a 240-pound back who, I believe, caught 90.

passes in one season. Great hands. Like there were very few guys that could, they were built like Stephen Jackson and could play like Stephen Jackson. Great screen guy. Great screen guy. Because a good hands and also just like he had that natural feel in space. And he just fell off a cliff like most bags do at the end. But like you don't really see a lot of such a big guys like that. 6.3. Yeah. 6.2, 630 pounds with sweet feet like that. Yeah, Stephen Jackson. And also he he rocked 39, which I was appreciated. You know, he took the unique number route like kind of like Camaro does with 41. I always appreciate guys that do that a little bit. But yeah, those backs.

And Fred Taylor, of course, you know, just so much better than people make him out to be. And just good, do it all running back. There were a couple other Bengals that I thought were interesting. I know he didn't play with these guys because he left like one year early. But like Chad Johnson, I think it might be on the line for being a little bit too good. And then I considered Carson Palmer for this. Like Carson Palmer, I don't think is ever going to play in the hall, is ever going to be in the Hall of Fame.

But we've talked a lot about those late career. of Carson Palmer teams in Arizona. Super exciting. And when he was, early in his career with those Bengals teams, he was incredible. Like, Carson Palmer is one of the more physically gifted quarterbacks. I mean, I know that's not really saying he was the number one pick in the draft. He won the Heysman. But that guy, when he was at his best, watching him sling it was truly enjoyable.

It really was. Because he's when people, I hate to say it, but the pro typical quarterback. Like, I mean, his size and build and just this feet in the pocket and just better athlete than people remember. That, yeah, that's what that's what no one remembers is like he was a pretty good athlete. Like he was like a 4-7 to change guy. Like being at 2.30 though, that's saying something. Yeah.

But he was just he he was just so much fun because it's that classic big arm, but it was actually accurate. So he could truly push down the field and actually do it. Like it's not like, oh my God, that's 10 yards over his head. That's why he was so much fun to watching that a Ariane's offense because it was first time I've really seen it be truly unlocked by a quarterback willing to stand there and push it downfield. All right, so I'm going to give you my quarterback here. I went with Tony Romo. Oh, man, he might get the post-career bump. Well, so if you look at it, I think it's going to be really, really hard for him to ever make the Hall of Fame.

He's 34th all time in passing yards. He made four Pro Bowls. That's it. He's behind Jay Cutler and Alex Smith in career passing yards. I didn't know that. Like Russell Wilson and Andy Dalton will both probably pass him this year. If Andy Dalton needs like 400 yards. So his career numbers, I think it's going to be difficult.

But if you look at the efficiency numbers for Roma, obviously injuries are part of that. From 2006 to 2015, here are the quarterbacks with better efficiency numbers than Tony Romo. Okay, ready? Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Drew Breeze, Russell Wilson, Phillip Rivers. Not bad. That's it. Not bad. Five of those guys are no doubt about it, Hall of Famers.

I think Russell Wilson is. and my stance on Philip Rivers has been well documented. I think Philip Rivers is closer to that group than he is to the group behind him. Agreed. So the fact that Tony Romo is right there with those guys doesn't surprise me, but I think it might surprise some people. I feel like the announcing thing I think can go two different ways. I think it's going to keep him in the consciousness.

But I also think there are going to be a lot of kids that are 10 years younger than us who are just going to know Tony Romo as the same. CBS guy and look at some of his career totals and the playoffs, lack of playoff success and just think Tony Romo maybe wasn't that good of a quarterback. Tony Romo was fucking awesome. Yeah. Tony Romo was really, really good. That 2014 Dallas Cowboys offense remains one of my favorite groups of players and just the way they played.

Like the line was out of this world good. Like they were, that was the, I think that was the best they ever were. Oh, yeah. Was that those five. That was Zach Martin's rookie year. Yeah. So that was Zach Martin's rookie year. Frederick was already there.

That was Tyron Smith at his peak. Ronald Leary, I think, was the left guard on those teams. He was playing really well back then. So the running game was incredible. But in my mind, it was like, oh, you know, they ran the ball really well. They were super efficient. They didn't ask Tony to do a lot. But his ability to play point guard in that offense when they would spread it out,

he had such a good sense for the game. Like the way he saw it and his ability to distribute the ball was so, so good. And the other thing, remember we talked a couple weeks ago about quarterbacks that can get you a bucket? Yes. Tony Romo could get you a bucket. And that is the thing about him that I think is a little bit different than some of those other really, really great quarterbacks outside of Rogers. Obviously, outside of structure, Rogers can do a lot of stuff. But Romo's ability to add lib and make stuff happen when things broke down, I think that is kind of an underrated aspect of his game.

But he's not just that. He wasn't just somebody that needed those secondary reaction plays. He was a really, really good quarterback within structure, too. I just feel like there's a chance that 10 years from now, people don't remember how good he actually was at the game. The game I always remember is the one he threw for 500 yards against the Broncos. And it was like 2013. And it kind of sums them up perfectly.

500 yards goes toe to toe with prime manning with the Broncos. And they lost it. 5148. and you know how they lost he throws a pick and then they get it and they just milk the clock and kick a field goal to win it after he just brings him back

with this huge huge company like all these points points toe to toe to pro man again it's just like that kind of sums up Tony Romo it's like that's why so many times probably there were times where people just go oh he's not that good because they all of a sudden they just remember

that one bad play and not the 500 yards and 48 points that he put up before exactly I definitely I forget and I honestly think that if he played now I would appreciate him even

more. I just don't, I think he's somebody that when I was younger, I didn't appreciate the little nuances of his game and the way that I probably would now. And that's why every time I go back and watch him, I find my appreciation for him growing and growing just because there's so many little things he did. I was like, man, that's really good. And that's the thing. I kind of knocked him probably for years, not knocked him, but kind of like kept him a little lower in my brain because I always just thought the quarterback had to operate from the pocket. And if you're scrambling around, that means you don't know the offense and you're guessing and you're just, you know, you're a gun slinger which is fine, but you can't win that way.

And then I realized as I got older, it's like, no, no, no, you need that. And it's like maybe, you know, it's just that that gunslinger mentality was just, I thought, I agree with you. I think he's phenomenal. He was a legit MVP candidate. And it was just like he was one of those players that just could take, take over a game. And that's a guy you should talk about and treat that way. But sometimes they just get lost into the history.

It's interesting because when people talk about burrow, his name never comes up, but like, their physical skill sets actually remind me a little bit of each other. They don't have those huge arms, but they can make things happen. They can, you know, there's a little bit of pocket mobility. Good athlete, but not great. Yeah. Really accurate with the ball. He's not a name that comes up when people talk about Burrow a lot.

But when I watched him, that's what I was thinking about. Romo was bigger that also people remember too. Like he's six to, I think. But he was like 230 in change. He was thickly built. So like, yeah, that's a great comparison of Burrow because he's kind of the same way. He's so just, you know, stout with, uh, with, with the athleticism.

All right. Who's your next one? Oh, man. I want to get away from the running back. Ron, for me, I'm going to go with Patrick Sartan. He was on my short list as well.

Yeah, because how I remember Sartan, it was looking back and it's funny how my memory remembers him as like eight time Pro Bowl or seven time all pro best in the league for, for eight, 10 years. That's what it felt like to me because he was very good from 02 to 04. And that makes sense because that's right when I kind of like,

focused on the league. It's when my dad became a coach. So it makes a lot of sense because that's who I was like, that's the best corner. We need corners because we suck at corner Vikings. So I want to know who the best corners were. Sorry, there's a couple. Sorry, Brian Williams, who's pretty good. But so with Sertando, it was like he had that three to four year stretch and he's just had that cutoff. He didn't get past that. I kind of noticed this recently, but looking back of some of these old corners, how many drop off a cliff once they turn 30? Or once they pass their year 30 season, they turn 31. It's like injured, injured, six games, four games, 10, games out of the league. And it's like two seasons before they're a pro bowler. And it's,

it's kind of crazy. Sartan was one. You also brought up a McAllister. He was another one. He dropped off after 30. And it's kind of funny. Like looking back at it, the best ones, of course, you know, the champ Bailey's of the world. They just go on and on and on. But it is kind of crazy to see how much the corner position just drops off at a certain age, what other positions we associate with that. But maybe corners one that we should look at that way as well. So is the Sante Samuel too good for something like this because he was on my very short list. He led the league in interceptions, I think, during his entire, over the course of his entire career, he comfortably led the league and passes defense over the course of his entire career. And watching him play,

I just, I went back and I watched a decent amount today because I really considered putting him out. I was like, yeah, he might be too good. But his ability to bait quarterbacks and play off and play downhill and whether it was either in cover two or just playing off men and bailing out and then coming downhill on stuff. I mean, he got Peyton Manning several different times. And when you can consistently do that to Peyton Manning, that says a lot about the way that you're playing the position. It's actually, it's funny that both of those guys, their sons are now in the league and

we're drafted this year. That wave of kids of former NFL defensive backs and just the way those guys clearly have a leg up with the nuances and the tiny little details of the position. I think that's going to be really cool to watch because it's happening pretty consistently. And it's the first time that corner play that can translate because it's like when they were actually playing, it wasn't like, oh, because there's such a disconnect, I think for guys our age because football was so different from the adults, like when we were in high school and college. Like it's accelerated so much in this past 10, 15 years that I think, yeah, these guys that are actually like,

oh, no, I played in a similar man system, like literally the same man system that he played in New England. It's going to run now by a couple teams. So that's kind of cool. Like when you think about it, it's not that long ago. But no, great. I think Assontes Samuel is another one. I don't think he's,

man, he's right at that cutoff of too good. But if I'm going to include Cory Dillon, he's kind of the corner version of that. But he has not been a finalist. He's been eligible a couple different times and he hasn't even been on anywhere near the list. So crazy.

Which is kind of surprising to me. So 50 picks. He had 51 interceptions. He had 50 interceptions. Yeah. I know. I'm just looking at his stats right now. Yeah,

that's especially on winning teams they get national recognition and stuff like that that's what always so surprising there's a reason uh and you probably play in that defense too because he was physical as hell because you had to be playing man in that in that defense with new england all right my last one here is another bear and it's lance briggs and thank you for saying them so so here's the thing and when i was doing it in my mind right away it was like oh too good like seven time pro bowl or whatever, has not been anywhere close to a semi-final list as far as I understand it. And I don't think he will be. Just because that position, there are so many guys I think that are going to come up and

block him, whether it's Thomas Davis or now Luke Keekely is going to be eligible here soon. Derek Brooks got in. I just don't think he, and Brian Erlacher obviously is in. It feels like he's going to be overlooked here. And I think it's for, not for this reason, but I think this may contribute to it. We talk about Peanut Tillman existing in a small time for. Graham, Lance Briggs is the perfect player for the early to mid-2000s. Like the perfect linebacker, right?

And so playing in that cover two system in Chicago, he's just a hook player. He doesn't have to have any range in coverage whatsoever because what's asked of him. So he was a good past defender, but it's because he didn't have to move very much. Correct. But when you look at what he did in that defense, I truly believe he was the best downhill linebacker of his generation. So from 2003 to 2014, his 12 years in the league, he ranked 14th in tackles for loss. Everyone else above him on that list is a defensive lineman except for Carlos Dansby,

who had 300 more pass rush snaps over that time period than Lance Briggs. So you have a guy playing in a blitz happy system in Dansby, who's always moving toward the line of scrimmage. Lance Briggs played in a system where he didn't blitz almost every. He had like two or three sacks a season. But for the most part, that's not what they did. And he's still making plays behind the line of scrimmage. consistently. He was right near the top of the league and defeats that football outsider stat that I love. Essentially just how much shit do you wreck on a play-by-play basis? He was always up there.

I can't remember a will linebacker over that stretch, over that 10 years, that was consistently better at slipping blocks, getting off blocks. He just, his ability to diagnose and make plays in the run game, I think was unparalleled for anybody else that played over that stretch. It's such a specific skill set and size because Erlacker, I mean, it's gigantic and so was breaks. Like they're big, big linebackers. And it was just so needed for what they did because if you're plugging the run with six guys in a box, you know, like those linebackers got to take some hits.

You know, they got to fit up on stuff and they got to slip stuff like you said. And they ran up. It's so beautiful. Guys post all the time on Twitter. But they'll just post, you know, the fits that these old Bears teams used to do. And it's just so beautiful watching the two linebackers just thump, thump, and just wrecks up for a one-yard game. And it's like you tell the offense going like, that should have been a lot better than that.

Okay. And then like they just bait guys in. Like we've talked about with the Rams defense doing, but just those guys doing it, which is truly two guys in the middle just plugging shit up. It was awesome. I love Lange Sprucks too. I'm so glad you mentioned him because he was on he was on my list by figured you would hit him. But I wasn't sure if you would say he was too good or not. I mean, I feel like he is too good, but I still don't think he's going to get real recognition for the Hall of Fame.

So I think that's why he fits here for me. Even when he was playing, he didn't get it. Yes. Because Earlockers there, right? It's like the fact that Earl Locker is standing next to him, I think. They're just campy too. You know, people just have that in their mind. It's just so weird.

I think that's, it's going to be interesting to watch the recognition for the Seahawks guys as we get there. Like, who's going to get it? Who's not? Like, in my mind, I think Sherman and Wagner are walking Hall of Famers. Like, walk in Hall of Famers. I think Earl Thomas probably should be too. But the way that works, like, I think 10 years from now, Michael Bennett is the perfect guy for this sort of exercise. I don't think he's going to be a Hall of Famer, but I think he absolutely applies for something like this.

That's exactly right. With Briggs, the play that sticks out to me the most is that 2006 year against Seattle in the divisional round, tie ball game, fourth quarter. Seattle has the ball. It's fourth and one, the two-minute warning on the Bears' 42-yard line. And he makes the play two yards deep in the backfield and they win that game. And without that, I don't think they go to the Super Bowl. Obviously, they lost, but those are just the plays he made all the time. I mean, that guy was just making consistent tackles in the backfield everywhere, everywhere all

of the time. And in that era, he was just the perfect linebacker for what they wanted to do. I don't know what he would look like now, but it doesn't matter. I mean, that's the whole point. He'd be like a five tech. All right. Any other guys that you wanted to mention before we get out of here? Those are our 10 players.

Yeah. This was very fun. This was fun. My kind of best of arrest, Sean Rogers was one, almost threw him out there. Sean Rogers is a great one. Chris Jenkins was on my short list. So similar kind of player. And then two that I almost thought were, yeah, they might end up in the hall. So I kind of held off on him was Lorenzo Neal and Ted Washington. Kind of like best of their position. I almost said Ted Washington. Ted Washington was almost my last one. I said instead of Sir Tan just because he was the prototypical nose tackle. We'll never see another one like him for like 390 plugging. He played until he was 39 years. old. I mean, just ridiculous. It's just what he did in his career. Lorenzo O'Neill wasn't. Where did he end his career, New England? I really want to say Cleveland. He did that in Cleveland. He had two years in Cleveland. Okay. And he was he had four more seasons after that season with the Patriots of four more.

Ted Washington. Well, the best part was he had those two years with the Bears and the 2001 Bears, it was him and Tractor trailer. Yeah. We're next to each other. The Bears had like 900 pounds of defensive tackle on those teams. I love it. I love it. The 2001 bears were not anywhere close to the best Bears team of my lifetime. It was insane. Couldn't believe it. Because it was the two straight weeks where they had pick sixes to win the game with Mike Brown against the Niners and the Browns.

That 2001 Bears team was so wild. And I will say, I put two bears on my list. You could put five, I think, from this era. And you could make legitimate arguments for them. You mentioned Olin Crutes. Yeah. Olin Crutes absolutely could apply here. It was the second team center on the all decade team.

I don't think we'll ever get into the Hall of Fame. And the other guy, two other guys, I would say, Tommy Harris. Yep, okay, good. Was incredible. Yeah. Before Tommy Harris got hurt, that prototypical attacking, penetrating three technique, he was the guy. I mean, when he came out of Oklahoma, he was so, so good. And injuries just derailed his career.

And the other one is Matt Forte. Like, those Bears teams were made up of guys in this range, which I think is, One of the reasons I was very excited to do the exercise. Just talk about all your favorite players is one after another. I only had one of the Viking who was. Yeah, I had Gary Anderson, the kicker, even though he missed the field goal. I mean, he was the points leader. He was the 80s and 90s all decade team.

I don't think he's ever going to get in. If he hasn't been in now, probably never going to get in. That was another Viking I had. Joey Porter was another one. Joey Porter is a good one. Joey Porter is a really good one. Yeah, I mean, there's a, this was a fun. exercise for me. I mean, just talk like like guys are too recent like Patrick Willis is too

reason he'll probably he might get in but his career was just so short way way too good. But that's the thing. Do you think has anyone mentioned to him in the last two seasons about like a guy that you were just talking about linebackers that could have been ahead of him you'd even bring him up. So he's a finalist though. I firmly firmly believe that Patrick Willis should be in the Hall of Fame. Oh absolutely. To me it's not even a question. As far as I'm concerned, if Calvin Johnson belongs in the Hall of Fame. Yes. Patrick Willis belongs to the Hall of Fame.

Calvin Johnson was a good, that's a new trendsetter. That being, now the argument changes. Now it's about, okay, now it's about where you're at the peak of your position for a certain amount of time, as opposed to longevity. Like now you can make that argument for some of these guys, which is great, which I think is great. So I guess Major Patrick Wilson will have a chance now because, I mean, he had like a seven-year stretch where his best linebacker in the league.

We're top three. I would 100% think he should be in. The guy from that team that I would say is more applicable here would be Navarro Bowman. Navar Bowman, who his peak was. not as high and what was not as long, but I think that he definitely would be in a conversation for something like this. Again, those Niners defenses were full of guys like this.

Navaral Bowman, Justin Smith, like they just had dudes like that. Nate Clements is like, I think is somebody that you could probably throw out there as one of those guys. Like that's what those Niners defenses were outside of Patrick Willis, who was like an all world player. Well, yeah, but the thing is, it's just people forget. They do, man. it's if you don't play like it's certain you just have to be talked about like people have the memory of goldfish and it's like if you're not like part of these certain teams no one's gonna remember you we all remember saragusa like you know like i mean come on like that's got how it works though but i i i totally agree with you that i think patrick willis should be in like i think you should be a easy vote for everybody but it's just you never know with these voters now so i don't want to get too deep into the hall of fame arguments uh because let's just say that is

is a podcast for another time and another time possibly in the very near future. But that is all we have for today. I really enjoyed this. This is what June and July are for. So I really am glad that we did this. We will be back later this week with the next installment in our offseason interview series. It's an NFL general manager. I'm very much looking forward to it.

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