The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - 2021 versions of 2020 stars - who are this year’s Josh Allen, Brandon Staley, Justin Jefferson, Cleveland Browns & more?

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

Who are the 2021 versions of NFL standouts from 2020 like QB Josh Allen, coach Brandon Staley, the Cleveland Browns surprising season and more? Robert Mays and Nate Tice look ahead to 2021 through the lens of some potential replacements for 2020 storylines.Be sure and get the best discount on a new subscription to The Athletic at theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today, it's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Doing great. I'm just glad we had our little discussion beforehand. I think we're in the same boat right now.

We're different reasons where we're both in pain right now, but a good type of pain trying to get into beach shape, maybe a month too late for both of us. It's not even about beat shape to me. It's more just about being self-conscious. I went out last week and I was about on a beach. a bunch of dudes are in really good shape, and I'm like, God, I got to start doing, like, actual workouts again. The Peloton is just not enough.

My upper body is lacking. So I'm in a lot of pain right now, but it's the good pain. It's the good, like, summer workout pain. So you're like, oh, I did something today, but then you're like, why is it not going away? Full disclosure, we're recording this on Friday. It's going to be running on Wednesday. We have some scheduling things. A lot of people are on vacation, so we're doing this a little bit early.

We got all the training camp stuff set up and ready to go, but we have a few more things that we have to do before we get to the actual 2021 slate of the NFL season. We're almost there. We are so, so close. So today here's what we're going to do. It's an exercise I enjoy doing every year. And I often do it in regard to fantasy. And you can take it with that slant if you want to here, where it's, what is the

2021 version of this 2020 player phenomenon coach? I think it's an interesting way to kind of bridge the gap between what just happened and what might be on the horizon. I don't want to say who's the 2021 version of the 2020 bucks in July. Like that's a conversation that we can have in the first week in September. Yeah. So it's, I don't, we're not going to do. This isn't a previewy thing.

These are smaller, more granular categories. Just to talk about some stuff as, you know, again, some lessons we could have learned from last season and looking forward a little bit in small ways to the season that's on the horizon. So I'm going to start with probably one of the guys who was one of the bigger storylines of the entire season last year. And that is Josh Al. So who would you say has a chance to be this year's version of Josh Allen, who will call the quarterback that seemingly comes out of nowhere or from relative obscurity or the middle of the pack to be a legitimate MVP candidate?

It's funny. I was trying to find another answer. And I don't even know if he's out of nowhere anymore. It's almost too easy. It's too easy. But I have to go with Justin Herbert because it just seems like the stars aligned for it. Yeah. I know.

I even had to text you just like, it's kind of obvious, right? And you're like, yeah, yeah. I was like, okay, good. I'm not going to overthink this one. I mean, you see it happening. I think that it's not like Josh Allen in the sense that I think people were apprehensive about Josh Allen coming into last year. You know, I was not bullish.

I wasn't like Evan Silva who was predicting him to win the MVP or putting bets on for that. But I was encouraged by what I saw from Josh Allen in 2019. I thought that there were tangible areas where he had improved. If you look at the intermediate accuracy and what he was doing to deliver the ball in that area of the field than just how much better he was there. I was encouraged by that. I thought that that was a sign of progress. And I thought if he can just put it together a little bit more,

if he can take one final step, they have a chance to be really good. It was part of why I was excited about Stefan Diggs, who we'll get to a little bit later on this show. But I do think that I was higher on Josh Allen than some. So that's why I think that the Herbert answer works, because I think there are some people where it's almost coming back around now. I can't remember who put it out earlier this week.

It might have been Hayden Winks, put out a graph of the efficiency number. is under pressure and in a clean pocket from last season. And Herbert was so good under pressure that a lot of people are predicting that that might come down to Earth, as it often does. Under pressure stats are not sticky for quarterbacks. They're very volatile. So if he really regresses in that area, is he going to be able to improve enough in a clean

pocket in different circumstances to take the step that some envisioned for him? And I believe he can't. I just think that with that offense with his just pure supernova type talent, that even with some of those underlying numbers being a little bit worrisome, I still think he has a chance to take a step into the upper echelon of quarterbacks as soon as this year. Herbert's been, we've talked about in various ways on this podcast. And it's so, even with that stuff that's not sticky and that's what I still am optimistic about how the leap he can take this year because it's like the other things all were improving as the year went along, the more quarterbacky

things, as opposed to just the creation where he can just be a big athlete or stand in the face of pressure and thrown it deep. It's like those. little. Did you watch the Raider game recently? Yeah, I did. So did I. So did I. And that's the game where when I watched it, I was like, I know it's the Raiders. I know their defense is terrible. But just some of the stuff he was doing and the way that he was delivering the ball to every level of the field, how on time and fast he was playing. That was the game where I was like, okay. That guy, I think, has a chance to be really,

really, really good. And that's the thing, too, is that even if it's against, I talk about this too when I'm scouting college guys, but even if they are playing bad competition, like the Raiders defense, it's, you want to see them be. consistently good. Totally. And that's what he was. Do the right things. Doing the right things. his eyes are good. That was something I was a little like, I was, you know, just being like hedging bats a little bit, being like, all right, is he that good when I first kind of really studied in this off season? And I was like, man, his eyes are just so good on every play.

Like he knows what's going on. And that's what it was like, okay, yeah, I'm going to buy in a little bit of this hype. It's because it's not just him being a big athlete and like a playground football. Just say, hey, just go do something. But it's like he's actually doing the quarterback stuff. And it's like something could get better. That was a rookie. It's not like that was his second year, him doing that.

So the end of his rookie. year. It's like, holy crap. Now he's got full off season with good coaching. He's out of the pandemic year. It could be really, really fun stuff. And actually the Josh Allen stuff, I actually, as you were just talking, I remember you visited there. I want to say in 2019, didn't you? Yeah, it was in October of 2019. Yeah. They just played the dolphins, give or take. I can't remember exactly, but it was right. It was the middle of the season. We talked or Texas before we did the show is when we were just friends. And I remember texting and talking. I was like, he actually is doing some good stuff, man. Like he's improving. And you go, they really like him.

And that's all I remember you said to me. You're like, they really like a man. Like he does some stuff that they really like that you can see it improving. And I mean, of course, he took a huge leap. But it's like,

it was there. Like those improvements were already happening. And it's just some of those things that you don't really see until it's proven. I mean, we all have to see it on film. We all have to see it on Sundays. But that's the thing is like if Herbert, we're going to all,

all of us are becoming more aware of these kind of things that are not as sticky and all that. But maybe we see the other. things that improve and maybe there's no drop off at all. And he just continues how he ended his rookie year. I think one of the comparisons between both of them is that they have obviously tons of physical tools. Yeah. But really smart guys. Very smart. You can put a lot on their plate, which I think is really something that I just don't think I appreciate it in quarterback development and quarterback acumen and how it helps you improve, how it helps you take steps forward. And Staley, even last week on the podcast is talking about how much they want to put on his plate,

which I think is really encouraging. I think that's a sign that they really trust him. And the other thing I wanted to say, the last thing, talking about Josh Allen and Justin Herbert, when you watch Josh Allen, even last year, his numbers under pressure were very good. And a lot of those plays are really, really busted plays. I mean, we're talking schoolyard stuff where he's rolling out of the pocket and making stuff happen. Herbert's not really doing a lot of that. He's under pressure constantly last year because the offensive line was so bad. But he's just little tiny sidesteps in the pocket, maneuvering in the pocket, subtle mobility.

So it's not these kind of crazy extended plays where those are almost random. I think his ability to definitely navigate pressure and how comfortable he looks in it, even if he's not as good last year because of the numbers and the nature of them, I still think it's an indication that he's not going to fold under pressure when it ends up happening. So I do think that even if it's not totally predictable or it's not predictive, I still think there's something to glean from the way that he played under pressure last year. If he's doing that because he knew he was going to be under so much heat, every snap that he's basically one and done with his reads.

Now imagine clean pockets where he can actually navigate. Yeah, like go one actually go alert to one to two and actually navigate through some of that stuff where he doesn't have to put up, you know, maybe a little disadvantage balls where it's like the DB can make a play or it's contested. But it's like that's that's where that is the fact that he can operate amongst all that shit he had to operate through last year and look great when rookie the year and put up all these numbers. It's like, holy crap.

Now the line's going to get better. And it's like, and now he's got. Like, the weapons weren't that good last year. Like, it's not as good as people. Mike Williams is hurt for half the year. Austin Eccler was hurt for half the year. Yeah. He's thrown into Jalen Guyton and Tyron Johnson.

And like, I just don't, I think that even if those things are not predictive usually, even if we're concerned about some regression, I still think the circumstances have improved so much that he can fend that off in different ways that other quarterbacks haven't been able to in the past. Maybe that's some rationalization. I'm trying to talk myself into it. But I still truly do believe that there's so many different factors in play here. And we should consider all of them when looking at what his season might end up looking like. He does the little things.

And that's what you look for. And he does them already. While being supremely talented. Well, also being 6'6 and can run and throw about 75 yards flat footed. Yeah, that helps when you could do the little things, when you could do all that as well. All right. Who do we think is going to be this year's version of DeForest Buckner? A big name that was on the move, big time acquisition,

had a lot of talk about it and was good from day one, was exactly what they needed him to be after making that sort of play for him. Stefan Diggs could also fit into this category, but we're going to have a different category named after Stefan Diggs a little bit later in the show. So this one's going to be Buckner based. Yeah, and I went with another trade. I went with Orlando Brown. And I think, yeah, and I, it was kind of, I kind of decide between,

I actually had an honorable mention I, Joe Thuny, so it's kind of like I could maybe package this together. But really, there's sexier signings, there's sexier trades, you know, but it's really like at the end of the Matrix like Agent Smith, you know, when he breaks up when Neo in the hallway and all that. I think it's like the fifth time we've referenced the Matrix on this show. But it is a very good movie for podcast references because it is ubiquitous but also very distinct. Yes. And very visual. And so it's like people can close their eyes and go, oh, I remember that scene. So at the end when Neo kind of like jumps into him. But like that was like the chief's offense. Like unbreakable. They control everything. And then the O line. breaks up. I'm just making this up right now. I did not plan on this comparison by just thought of it. I'm so sorry if it goes askew here. But really it's like that's kind of what it was. Like we saw the cracks, the literal cracks of this offense and on the national stage. And Mahomes was able to patch it up throughout the year and just keep it going, keep it going, keep it going. He was really able to compensate for a lot that was wrong with that offense. And the fact that they can just get tangible

players in Orlando Brown, Anthony. It's like, okay. Now having, it's all about having, just five good starters, like, or five, no true weaknesses. And more tangible good starters on O-line, two legitimately good guys. And Thunni's got flexibility. That's awesome. And it's about finding your best five. And it really is just your weakest link. You're hiding it. So if you can just make it, your weakest link is just one spot and it really looks like the right tackle for them, you're happy with that. And Remmers has played. Like, if he's your right tackle and he's your worst offensive lineman, you can survive. Exactly. If he's your left tackle and he's your best offense lineman in the Super Bowl, it's a lesser situation. If he's your fifth best of

lineman, good. If he's your second best lineman, oh, crap. Like, we are in some, we are some world of hurt right now. And also just having the one weakness. And if you know where your weakness is, being self-aware about it, if you have four patchwork linemen, you're like, oh, my God, where do we provide chip help? Do we go five man? Do you go seven man? It puts a lot of strain, not just on the court. There's only one area where you got to put out fires. It's really helpful. Exactly. Oh, we only have to provide chip help to the right tackle. Okay, boom, we know that. So the rest of the game plan, we can, we can match up and do all that fun stuff with it. So, that's what really that's where that helps. Even if they, I think Orlando Brown's going to be good. You know, we know, we kind of know what he is. He's a little limited, but it's also, he's so big that speed rushes, he can like negate it because he's just so big that it.

His arms are 45 inches long. Speed rushers have to like work all the way around. So he makes the path. He like just, he just becomes like a gigantic roadblock and he kind of just moves with them. It's actually kind of funny to study. But Anthony's just going to add some like solidify the center of the line. I just think those two signings are just really going to send for a contender.

Do you know, do you want to guess how big his wingspan is? Wingspan. Oh my God. 82. 85 inches across. Oh my God. That's ridiculous, man. That's absolutely, that's absolutely wild.

That's, that's really, really crazy. It's 85 inches across. 85. I'm like, seven feet. So he has a seven full wingspan. Seven foot one inch. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my God. That's actually, I, like, just picture. have a head. That's like NBA numbers, man. That is a big, big man. His standing, like, he's going to be one of those guys because that's what they check in the NBA is like, what's your standing reach? He could just be a great post down there, just blocking it all. I'm looking at some of his physical comps on mock draftable right now. The fourth one down is Phil Lulthold who's one of the biggest people that has ever played in the NFL. So that's all you really need to know. So I think that's a really good one. I think that makes a lot of sense. The element of that,

which we've talked about, I'm sure we'll continue to talk about it. It's really cool because with some offenses, right? You try to anticipate how they'll change and how they'll adapt and how they'll evolve. But it's hard to pinpoint it from afar sometimes. With the Chiefs, you can see exactly how it's happening. They have all these gap run scheme guys now and he's going to inform that. So it's just easier to picture him in that offense because you can imagine them doing stuff where he's comfortable, which I think is going to be a big part of what they try to do.

So mine is maybe a little bit too obvious. Mine's Matthew Stafford. Oh, great. Yeah. I mean, obviously you look at what the Rams gave up for him. it's a ton. And I legitimately believe, even at 33 years old, which I think he is, we could see the best version of Matthew Stafford this year.

We could see the best version that we've ever seen, which seems kind of strange for a guy that has been in our collective consciousness for over a decade. But I'm not sure he's ever played with a better offensive coordinator, just in a better system that suits his talents. And you saw what he could do in a play action-based pushing the ball down the field type of offense when he was with Darrell Beville a couple years ago. I mean, and that was for the first half of the 2019 season, the most efficient we'd ever seen Matthew Stafford be as a quarterback.

So going into this offense, which I truly believe is going to push the ball down the field way more than they did over the last couple of years. I mean, not only with Stafford, but with Atwell, with Deshawn Jackson. Yep. And then I want to say, I can't remember who it was. And it's going to annoy me that I can't posted. It might have been Ian Hartzitz from PFF posted the average depth of target for Robert woods over the last five years. And I want to say in like 2017, it was 11 point something yards per

air yards per throw. Yeah. And this year it's like six something. Yeah. I was going to say it's, it's not as if we've never seen a version of this offense that is explosive, does have a vertical element to it. So I just think so many of the signs from the outside point to them playing with that kind of style. And I think that suits what Stafford likes to do. So I'm really excited about what he can be for them. I think he legitimately has a chance to be everything. they're hoping he can be really quickly. Yeah, I'm so excited to watch that offense. I loved watching it last year.

And that was with them thinking and Duncan and it was just because it's just so much fun how they tie everything in together. And just speaking of which, making it easier on Stafford is, I mean, for how long they didn't even have like a hundred yard rusher in a game, the Lions. It was like six years or something like that. And now he's going to like one of the better run schemes period in the NFL. So I think that's going to help him just a little bit. But you can just see the vision of what they're.

doing. They realized we are not explosive enough. We used to gain it in the run game and the past game. We can generate some good runs in the run game. But man, when everyone could just run quarters and just sit on us in the past game, that is not fun. So getting not only Deshaun Jackson probably one of the greatest deep ball threats ever, but then also two to two at well, which is that is why he is there. And I've gone back and watched the 2018. You don't think he's going to be running like deep digs over the middle of the field at 145 pounds? Nah, I don't think so. You're old to Hollywood Brown and the Ravens the last two years. Yeah, they're going to put on that scheme.

Yeah. Please don't. But watching them and watching the 2018 team because I think I watched the Chiefs game that won the most fun games ever. But just you forget the gashes they would create in the past game with Brandy. I was at that Vikings game in 2017. I was there. It is still a game that is just seared into my mind how dominant and explosive they looked in that game. Gash after you get 18-yard game, 22-yard game, 14-yard game, 18-yard game, 18-yard game,

28 yard gain. It just explosive, explosive, explosive, anyone can dial up a six yard pass. Anyone can do it. Like, you run stick as much as you want. But if you just have to run,

they did. Oh, they did. Or if you just want to run stick and the way to create an explosive play is stick pump. Like they get against the Packers in the playoffs. Like they love doing that last year because that's all they could do because they ran stick so much was run the pump off of it.

And it's pretty funny. But watching it back and watching all those glance routes they hit. They had seen benders, the overstop routes. Those were, that was like the Woods and Cup specials against, especially against Seattle, those overstop routes and over return, whatever you want to call it, settle. But any of those.

Vertical aspect we're used to seeing from teams like Tennessee. Those sorts of elements that we just didn't see from them anymore. I have to assume they'll be back in full force. In fact, they had a tangible offense without it is kind of complimentary to Sean McVeigh. Merely average is as bad as they got. Yeah. Merely average where they still did good things. Yeah.

And they can still put up 30 a couple times. Yeah, I know. I'm so excited to watch that offense and Stafford in it. All right. So let's change the tone here a little bit. Who do you think could be this year's Eagles, which I believe had an over, under of nine and a half before last season, which is very hard to imagine now. But that team had playoff aspirations. And I think there are people that put those sorts of expectations on them. Is there a team now in that nine, nine and a half, 10 win range that you think could win six games, be picking in the top 10, and kind of. to be throwing their hands up asking what next the cardinals it was hard because i i do try to be an optimist with some of these teams ago like i have an answer in a different way the cardinals are a different category from me here in a second but i try to see the best version of that everybody and it's like i could just see it going south a couple injuries when you build an older roster with especially at their skill position guys you know it's just i could just see my couple injuries if kiler

goes down they are proper fucked um but if if i just see that type of offense and just that team, it's like if they don't improve how I want to see them improve or a lot of us want to see them improve, especially offensively. We did see the defense improvement, which is tangible. I've rewatched it now. It's like, no, that that looks like it is sticky a little bit, at least some of the stuff they're running. Vance Joseph has been a great pressure guy throughout his entire career as a defense coordinator. Even when he went to the Broncos, it was so funny because they would run Wade Phillips's stuff on base downs. And also in third down, it was completely different because that was his stuff. He was like, no, no, you can run. I'll

keep weighed stuff on first and second down. Just 11 creepers within two yards in the line of skirmish. Everybody coming down mugged up, another guy on the edge. And you're like, and then they would drop eight is all so annoying. My concern though, I think that they're really like grasping by a string with those corners playing like that though. I mean, it is, it is a dangerous way to live when you have those issues in the back end. There are two injuries away. You're like, that's it. One on defense, one on offense from being wiped out as a team. And that's scary to live by when you're not even like a true contender. You're in more of above average good team realm.

So that's kind of my answer. I know I pile on them a little bit. They can be a lot of fun, I think. But, man, I think that stuff can go south quickly if things don't break how they should. Well, we're going to talk about them in a second because they're an answer for me in a similar way here. My answer, I think it's the Titans. And it's just for this reason.

Let's say they fall from being the second or third most efficient offense in the league to 14th. With Todd Downing, you know, you have those issues. maybe the play action game isn't as good. If they're merely solid offensively, I don't think it's a guarantee that their defense is going to be better. No.

I just don't. Maybe a little bit better, but I don't think they've made these market improvements on that side of the ball. So if they're still an actively bad defense and a merely average offense, they could absolutely win less than half their games and kind of be sitting there being like,

what did we do with this core? Like, this is it. This is what we worked for. But I mean, and let's say Julio gets stinged up. And now we're looking at Josh Reynolds and AJ Brown as the receivers. It just I think that it's a more fragile situation there than it might seem on the surface. It's another year of Derek Henry getting all those touches too. Yes.

After it was a three and 70 touches last year. Yeah. I keep what you said. They were my other answer. I think we're going to flip flop on. That's really funny. Yeah. So that's why I was trying to move away from the mic.

I was laughing. That's really funny. Yeah. The next cat. category is, what is this year's Ravens passing offense, a unit that we knew probably needed more tweaking. We had some real concerns about it. And it ends up being exactly as underwhelming as we expected it to be. My answer is the Cardinals passing game. It minds of Titans defense. That's amazing. That's perfect. I know. I mean, obviously, they added Rondell Moore and they went out and got, let's call it the 2021 version of A.J. Green. I will not put a value on it at all. I was just, it is a fact that it is. is A.J. Green in 2021. Those are the additions that they made. I still think a lot of their issues in that offense are structural.

And you've said this before. It's a lot of just, let's try this. Let's see if it works. They just don't have consistent ways to create gains in the intermediate area of the field. They really, really struggle to do that. And I don't know if a gadgety guy in Rondale Moore is the answer to get you there combined with AJ Green. I think that there are bigger issues at play here. And if those do not get solved, I think we could be sitting here in week seven, week eight being like,

all right, what's next? Like, where do they go from here? What's next for Kyle or Murray? Just kind of wondering what the next step for that franchise might be. I agree. I'm kind of told I touched on it in the last question. But yeah, it's, it was nice at first seeing that whole that overload three by one with iso ball with Hopkins and that was good you know that's a nice little package you can run but you thought that was the training wheels though you thought that's remember that's what you do to like wade in you're just getting your feet wet it's like I get preseason games hey what you say what's yeah what's let's ease them into the offense and that's what we said we're like this is a good start this is some cool stuff really smart way to get him comfortable early you know get your guy a bucket

couple times early in the first couple weeks of the season isle ball I think yeah over just like no that's good and then they never changed they just did it throughout the rest of Like if you look at the Cardinals offense, you're like, what is like, we picture the Rams, those overroutes with the posts. You, you picture the Saints offense is the quick game with a great run game. You know, all this different stuff over the years. Like, what are the Cardinals run? Like, no one can tell you.

It's wide screens. I know. I think about it's an air raid offense. I'm like, no, that's not. No, it's not. I mean, a couple of things. Yeah, a couple of little things like you said, the receiver screens. You know, they replaced the run game with that.

But the thing is when you have a good run game, like they do, the interesting run game, I should say. Interesting run game. like they do. You don't need the run screens. Screens are meant to replace the run game in the air rate to traditional air rate offense. And that's, oh, yeah, that's just the frustration with all that. My answer, though, we're just piling out. This is great tag teaming this, but it's the Titans defense. And much you touched on, I mean, seriously, I think some of their issues, too, is not, you know, they've invested a decent amount to their defense as well is some of it's just X's and O's.

Like, I've rewatched it and I was trying to figure out, is this a personnel thing? Is this a a scheme thing. It just seems like guys were guessing on their assignments. Guys were, if there was a motion, everyone looked at each other. Like, they had never even gone over that before. And that's, I know they hired a New Z. DC, Shane Bowen, but the thing is, he's a friable guy. He, he's been with the Titans, the Texans and Ohio State.

So, I mean, he's probably not going to change too much from what they've done. Maybe he can, like, not having the head coach to have the lead on that. Having Jim Schwartz there, it's going to be fine. Shorts is going to be a good voice there. Like, he'll bring some interesting stuff, but so. different from what Frable's defenses have been. So maybe the third down stuff looks better, but that was no. Oh, no.

So that, that it's just, I do think some guys like Jeffrey Simmons, going to take a leap, Bud Dupree is a nice super role player, really. You know, it's a super role player making $19 million making big money. Yeah. So I don't know. They can't cover anyone unless, unless you hope the guy has a good back, you know, fairly, far away this year. It's just a lot of question marks.

And for a team that needs a super offense to. that if they don't get it, if they, if they have the eighth best offense, that might not be enough to cover up for what this defense. Because they, there can be a lot of games for this defense is very frustrating to watch. And I think we knew that last year throughout the entire year. I thought they'd maybe improve, maybe a couple other guys, maybe like a mid signing. But no, they kind of just did what they did. And I'm just really curious to see how that goes. Mike Frable might not be a good defensive coach. He could be a perfectly fine, your head coach where you have, you're that CEO type. You keep everything. He's a culture

builder, all of that stuff. I think some of that stuff is bullshit, but I also think some of it's real. And he may be very good at that. And if you establish a certain culture among your coaching staff and from a lot of things I've heard about just the way the staff operated there, especially on the offensive side of the ball, it's humming and going. And there's a lot of good things to be said about that. But when he was in Houston, they weren't good. They finished 30th and waited DVOA in 2017 when he was a defense coordinator there. It's his only year as a defensive coordinator. Yep. So there is not a lot of proof about him. being this really good overseer of that unit specifically.

And I think last year is another indication of that. So when you have somebody like D&Ps who can completely handle that side of the ball with very little oversight, it looks acceptable. But last year and then into this year, that's not the situation. That's not the dynamic on that side. So he could absolutely be better. We don't have a huge track record of him being, having that much of a hand and running a defense. But so far it has not been excellent.

That is what I will say. I mean, you nailed it. I mean, that's exactly how I feel about it. I've never seen proof in the pudding with anything he's put on the field, put on tape. I just see a lot of guys going palms up and looking at each other like, what the hell are we supposed to do here? And that's like, that's scary. And like I said, that's why I want to bring up the Bowen part because he's a Vrable guy. And that's, okay, having Dean Peace there, vet well respected, big voice, older, older coach,

Vrable's going to respect what he says, goes, oh, okay, you want to go like that? Okay, okay. I got that. here's my idea, but all of a sudden you get that voice out and somebody Vrable has been on top of his entire career. What do you think is going to happen if Vrable has an idea or wants to say anything like that? That's the politics of coaching sometimes. So that is, I completely agree what you said, what you just said. I have never, I have yet to see it on film or anything where they're, I can justify and go, well, they just need better players because I've seen this defense work before,

but I haven't. The lack of adjustments is always scary too. They get, they'll get pounded away in the first half at something. And then they run the same stuff in the second half. And that's scary. So yeah, I think we're on the same page here because I completely agree with what you just said too. All right. Let's get to our next year. This one's more team based. Who is this year's Browns, a team with a new coach that disappointed last year that we think could get pretty good in a hurry? There are a couple obvious answers here.

I'm curious which one you chose. Yeah. So I kind of took this as like new coach that's going to be a little better than I think people think. And I'm going to go with the Jets. I'm going to go with Robert Sout. Robert Sala and the Jets. I think a while they're good. They have a lot of young players that are just, I mean, their first round picks, obviously.

but it's, they're good, man. Like, I mean, they are building some, they're building something there. I do think Joe Douglas has done a decent job. Like, I think he has selected a couple guys that he hasn't missed on the first rounders yet. We'll see how Zach Wilson is. But I mean,

we'll see what Mims does in year two. I know you like him. I'm curious. Just, it's a weird fit. Just because in this offense, his skill set doesn't necessarily align with everything they want to do. So I think there's a world where he's more appealing and more valuable to a different team than he might be with this.

type of system with the Jets. That's a good point. I think it helps that he's a big body. So, because you have to block in that system. You just do as a receiver. You have to. So that does help him a little bit. I do like the synergy they have.

I get what you're saying to. That's a good point with the scheme stuff because he is a ball winner as opposed to a crafty technician type that this offense really hums up. That makes, Corey Davis makes perfect sense there, like that good, solid. Exactly. Good at everything type. And I think there's some good synergy, though, with. With MIMS. I do think MIMS can ascend and I'd be a ball winner, but I get exactly what you're saying.

With Corey Davis, I really like Elijah Moore. I think that's a great fit. We'll talk about Elijah Moore here in a bit. Okay. But I think he's a great fit for what they're going to do. I do, I think Mackay Beckton is going to ascend. He's really talented, man. And then I think Quinn and Williams is going to be a star. And we're going to talk about him in a minute. But it's, I don't think they're going to go insane and win a division when 12 and 5. But I do think they're going to be frisky and fight for that seventh playoff spot. So I think just this is truly where I've knocked on culture coaches, whatever, but I think Sala actually has the X and O's to back back up whatever he does say. But I do think just having that positivity and hey, hey, if shit goes wrong, no, we're going to fix this. We're going to like just a different mindset. It's going to really just help that Jets team and just the whole franchise.

But I just think they have some nice young players. They transition nicely out of what the kind of the shit they were in the last couple of years, I think. I think if you look at some of the bets they made in free. agency, they're very interesting to me. Sheldon Rankin's, Markis, Joyner, buying low on guys who we've seen be successful and if not successful. I mean, Rankin's has been good.

His track record probably isn't as long as Joyner's is, but still a talented guy with first-round pedigree. The type of bet's worth making in free agency, in my opinion. I also just, I like their coaching staff. I think that Jeff Ulbrick did a pretty underrated job with Atlanta to when he got elevated there. And I think that hearing Sala talk about how he put that staff. together where it's like it's guys attached to the root of the Seattle stuff but have done their

own thing enough where we can add some new ideas. My only question with them is the corner situation is concerning. Low issue. I mean, it is really concerning. So what they're, I assume they'll play a lot like a zone zone, zone heavy defenses, even on third down would be my assumption with the corner depth that they have. But I agree. I think that that staff is a chance to do a really good job. To me, it comes down to what is Zach Wilson in your one? Yeah. That's the most important thing. If he can come in right away and play pretty well, I think they've done enough on that offensive line to be more than acceptable this year. I agree. Going to get a Vera Tucker signing Morgan Moses.

I mean, that personnel-wise, I think they're set up to be just fine. I think that's the biggest question for me. It's a great point by to Alberg, though, real quick. But like, that Falcons defense in the second half of year, especially the Chiefs game, they really got after him. They got after the Bucks a little bit. Yep. They did some stuff. Like, they got after Brady.

They fooled Brady a couple times. and that's all Oberg's pressure stuff because he, that's all him. It changed completely once he took over on the defense. So I know, I don't actually know, but I assume that that was, that's his fingerprints all over. So that's really cool to see if he brings that to New York. I've had a couple conversations with him in the past. He's always impressed me because he was the position coach for Dion Jones and Devondry Campbell when they were both young.

And the way that those guys developed under him and how they were playing, especially early in their careers, I thought it was impressive. So it's not surprising to me that he's had some success. So I think there are a couple different other options here. The charges are the easy one to me. They could be a playoff team. It's almost too obvious. I mean, we've talked about them so much already.

I think the Jags could just be good. I think they could just be good immediately on offense. The defense is a huge question mark. I think if they get to 20th, it's a success. But I don't know if Darrell Bevel and Brian Schottenheimer and that brain trust is what you need to get you over the top in 2021. But I think it absolutely can make you a good offense and a productive offense from Jumpstreet.

I think that type of offense and the ability to insulate Lawrence when you need to, but still really unleash him on some of those more vertical, aggressive downfield play action concepts. I think that is a good plan for him early on. You can unleash him if you want to. You can take the training wheels off. But if you need to feel like he needs to be protected every once in a while, just to keep him safe.

Honestly, you can still do that. It's the Russell Wilson plan. Like, an accelerated Russell Wilson plan, I think is not a bad idea for Trevor Lawrence. If he's as good as advertised right away, I think their line is acceptable. They have receivers. Charg's a good player. So I absolutely think they could just be good right away on offense. They could be like a top 10 offense from the start.

I don't know if they're a playoff team if that happens, but I think they absolutely could be 500 in their first year. What's nice what's nice you said too is like their old lines fine. It is. It's not just like you're saying, I'm not saying fine as a diss. I'm saying like they're at least average. They might be above average. I mean, they have a good center. You know. Bring it back those five guys I think is a solid plan. When you're drafting a quarterback number one overall and he is the franchise. And his success is all that matters. I think franchising a guy who probably doesn't need to be the, probably doesn't deserve the franchise tag is not a bad idea. I think that makes sense as an allocation of resources when you're trying to. play the long game. I agree. I agree. And it just, it makes a transition so easy. And then I know they took E.TN, but you know, like James Robinson's a great back. Like he really is. He's a very good back. And just because he can do, he could be a three down back. And just having that like, okay, we don't have to throw the ball 35 times. We can have a game or say we do have a seven, 10 point lead on a team that's way better than us. Okay, we do have the option of burning the clock. We don't have to just keep going, hey, chucking, chucking and chucking. So just having those little options where you're able to pivot when

you need to, depending on the game, that really helps, especially with a, like you said, a young quarterback. I'm excited to watch their offense. From day one, I'm excited to see what it looks like because not only because of him, but just what the structure of it look like, how they use their skill position players. It is one of the units I'm most looking forward to seeing an action. I'd agree with that. All right. Who is this year's Brandon Staley? Who is the assistant or coordinator that just becomes a super hot name by the end of the year because of the stuff that he's doing? I bounce a couple names around and I'm going to go with Patrick Graham to defense that's my answer as well awesome awesome I actually I had an inkling but I wasn't sure so I yeah I mean we've talked about

how surprisingly fun the Giants defense was to watch and got to watch a couple games this morning too just to kind of reiterate I also went back and I watched some stuff today just to make sure that I was I know me too I was like holding in what I wanted to because that's the thing is you watch these games and everything just becomes a blend and then you're just like oh me it was that was that was I talking about them or was I talking about them yeah so but just just what I really liked with them is very, I wouldn't say game planee, but very, every down, you can tell every situation they had a plan. So like against the Seahawks, we're running drop eight, cover two.

And then on third down, they bring these man, you know, it's just like you can tell there's a plan. They, they are every, if it's second and long, if it's red zone, if it's third down, third and short, third and long, they are very like, they know, they know how to change up their scheme just enough depending on the opponent, which I think is really, really cool. They're not just running this one thing every single down. Graham, obviously, we should talk about him a little bit. He has a Patriots background.

He's been a coach. He's coached D-Lines. He's coached linebackers. I want to know how you can tell they are well coached. And we've joked about this before. Look at Blake Martinez with the Packers and the Blake Martinez with the Giants. Or James Bradbury. Or James Bradbury from Carolina to New York.

James Bradbury. And I was a fan of James Bradbury. I was like, man, he's a good number two. He's a very good number two low end number. He's borderline star material. I mean, it really is. Like, he's, he's right in that elite status. Like, he is the parameter for it.

So, yeah. And, like, having him and unlocking him. And I don't know. It's just putting guys in the right spots. It's funny looking at some of the stats kind of match up with the style. Like, they have a lot of bend, but don't break to them. They try to get you to third down and then they heat you up. And, like, they're 31st and plays allowed per drive.

But 18th in yards per drive and 14th in points. So it's like, they're going to let you get your plays, but you're not going to get a ton of yards on us or points on us. good stuff. I just really liked what they did. And the more you watch them, the more you appreciate what they're doing. Well, I think, I mean, so Blake is a good person to bring up because it's actually a conversation with him that made me start paying attention. Because I was talking to him for something that was more, was broad, it was offense based just because he's a really, he is a football nerd. And having football conversations with him is very fun. I've always got a lot out of it. So I was talking to him about motion and just about dealing with motion and playing against him,

because they had just played against the Rams. Okay. So we were talking about their defense and the coaching staff, and he's like, it is so well communicated to us. It is, they do such a good job. He was so impressed by what they had done so far. So I started taking notice. And you mentioned having air in the defense and not allowing big plays.

So you said that. Patrick Graham is a New England guy, right? Yeah. Comes from a New England-based background. Then he was in Miami before he came to the Giants. So true blue New England system. they ran the second fewest cover one snaps in the NFL last season. That's what surprised me when I watched them.

Yeah. That makes sense. Only the Rams ran cover one on fewer past defense snaps than the Giants did last year. They led the league in cover two. They were sixth in cover three. So that flexibility and that ability to say, you know what? I don't have the guys on the outside. I can't do this.

We do not have the corners to run that system. That takes a lot of balls. Yeah, it does. Your first year as a defensive coordinator to say, we're just not set up to do this. And not only that self-awareness and that flexibility, the ways they got to cover to is fascinating. I mean, you have Bradbury in the deep half every once in a while.

And they mess with the safeties in the box and something. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I agree. It is really cool. And then some of the front stuff that they do, you know, they were running a lot of the tight stuff just because they had the personnel to do it. That's right.

Because you can bump Williams inside. You have that one edge rusher. I just think they've done a lot of interesting stuff on that side. And now, because the talent is better, you have Dory Jackson there now. You have Xavier McKinney for the whole year. You go get Azizzo Jolari in the second round. I think they could really shine. I have serious questions about their offense.

Serious questions about their quarterback, about their play caller, despite all the talent that they added. But I think their defense has a chance to be truly awesome this year. I agree. This is just like a little simple thing in the Seahawks game I watched this morning. They dropped eight. It was a drop eight cover two. Russ made an incredible threat. But stupid throw, I mean, I lost my mind.

I watched it like 20 times. I got to post this. I'm gonna rush. That's one of those rise balls that's still going up even as he gets the whole shot. It messes with your, your brain a little bit because it like pops up right over the head. Yeah, I don't know. It's got to watch it. Nate underscore ties finally on Twitter.

But the, but like even on that play, it's a drop eight. When teams drop eight, it was against empty. So that's why they did it. Usually they'll have a detackle just kind of shoot back up. He stands up and, you know, hands up and it just like they always looks awkward you know it just looks bad this is just that little tweak that they did they had the dn do at the edge and then he dropped eight across field so he went to the strength to the three man strength side against this empty formation and it was just that little

tweak because it's just a different look that drop eight guys coming from the opposite side you're an empty empty is heavy quick game so okay let's have a guy not drop in the area that you think he's going to drop as a quarterback. If I look and I see his detackle popping up, well, I'm going to get off of it. But if that guy's coming from the opposite side, it was almost like a, it's almost like that New England pressure where they drop, they bring everybody and they have certain guys drop off, you know, the Miami pressure. And it's just that little tweak, but it was a drop eight. And I was like, that's pretty cool. Just a little thing, but it's just enough to just like having those safety's like, Bribery Deep and everything, moving those guys around. It's just, it's the same

defense, but just those little tweaks can really mess with the quarterback. Because if you're expecting it. Covered two. Okay, I look at that free safety, boundary safety. I'm looking at him. He's wide. He's wide. Okay, I'm good. That's covered two. I'm good. But if he's wide, he's wide. And also he shoots down. It's like, oh, what are you in? I look to the field and you're bringing something I'm not expecting. Oh, man, that if your quarterback's not top tier, that's why I always say the pre snap and the post snap operation. There's some guys are really smart, but if you change up the look on it, they just freeze. Daniel Jones is one of them. So it's really interesting. I love those little tweaks. So it's a really fun defense to watch. And yeah, I'm, I'm, with you. I'm glad we had the same answer here because I'm excited to watch them in 2020. Well, we know that Invert Cover 2 is the worst idea in the history of football, but they don't do that. They don't switch both of them. It's only one side. So if you're doing it that way where if you hesitate a little tiny bit, they do a lot of stuff where they'll line up, it looks like it's man, where everyone's lined up the exact same death all the way across and then pepper's drops to

the flat and the corner drops deep. It's just, it's really cool to watch. I'm slowly building like a list of rewatches for training camp because when I'm on the road and staying in hotels and have nothing to do at 7 p.m. That's what I'm going to go back and watch. And the Giants defense is right near the top of my list. Like, I'm going to go watch six games, be like, okay, what is happening? And just because they're one of those teams, then I'm really excited to start watching again. All right. Who is this year's Justin Jefferson or Tristan Wirthes? Immediate Impact Rookie, day one, one of the better players at his position. Wow. I'm going to go with Micah Parsons,

the linebacker for the Cowboys. Okay. Yeah, and just because I do think the Cowboys are going to have an interesting year. We've talked about the offensive enough, but I think Parsons, he has his off-field issue, so I don't want to dive into that. But as a player, it's, I think he is pro-ready and could just hop right in as a linebacker. And linebacker, it's tough because guys can make an impact right away as a rookie. But I think definitely against a run.

I think it's where against the pass is where you have some of the growing pains, especially if you can't cover the pass. I think he can. So I think he can move around. I don't think he should be moving backwards very often. You don't. I really don't. I think that be with their,

I don't, not that he can't do it. Oh, but when I look at the rest of their personnel and with what they're going to have to do to heat teams up, I feel like he's going to be best as a pass rusher as a rookie than any other area of his game. That's what I was just going to get into. He has the ability on third down to line up as an edge and actually bring some shit.

And that's, I just think he's one of those guys, especially the Cowboys. You're going to get a little bump just playing for the Cowboys. I think. that he's just going to plug and play. They're talking about, oh, we're going to put this linebacker here.

They're going to find a way to put him on the field, and I think he can make an impact because he plays a position that you can make an impact early. I want to hear what your other answers. I have two other ones, but I want to hear what yours is. I don't want to take any thunder from you. I'm surprised that I'm taking your...

I'm Rashad Bateman. I just think that from day one, he has a chance to be their best receiver. And I know that you have Hollywood Brown there, you have Watkins there. Boyle's going to get a ton of snaps. They're going to live in heavier personnel packages like they always have.

But I just think at a certain point, it's going to be hard to keep him off the field. If he's their best guy. And every single, and I know we don't, shouldn't read too much into this, every single review of him from the moment he stepped on the field there is he's just good. Which shouldn't, doesn't surprise either of us. Murray is like going to the GM going, hey, good job. Good job, man. Yes. And I just think it's, it's similar to Jefferson, right?

Where they brought him along slow because that's more of a Zimmer thing. He's just not going to play rookies early. But with Bateman, it's not a clear path to the starting lineup in week one just because of the resources and how they've spent them. But I just think at a certain point, he's going to be too good for them to keep off the field. Yeah. It'll start at six targets and it'll end up probably midseason. He'll start getting 12, 14. Like that, I could see it already.

If they throw the ball 14 times. If they throw the ball 14 times. Yeah. So they'll throw up 20 times and he'll get 14 of them, which is great fantasy wise. Who are your other ones? I'm curious. No, well, Bateman's like an out of bag for me. I had to get off.

I kind of have to get off the beat bath a little bit. Sewell, I know the line. They're not going to be a contender, but I just think he'll plug a play. I think we should say non-top 10 picks. That feels that feels cheap. Okay. And then the other one is Quitty pay for the Colts. Okay.

Nice. I do think there's more to them, especially talking to some guys from Michigan and with the Don Brown defense, not not guys that coach at Michigan, but people that watch them. And really seeing how maybe scheme limited his production and seeing how. And read and react. Yep, read and react, read and react. And he's not a read and react guy. He also is not getting drafted to be the guy right away because they have another guy there that's pretty freaking good. Actually, a couple guys are pretty freaking good. But it's with him. He can start as maybe a rotational guy and ascend as the year goes on and really be a nice compliment to what else they have. I think pay just in a one gap stuff is going to send. He's a freak athlete. He passed a lot of thresholds as far as testing and stat wise that I look at. for pass rushers. So I'm excited to see him. I think he can be one of those guys that's a better pro than a college guy. And he was a pretty good college guy. All right. Let's stay with rookies. Who do you think it could be this year's Legerius Sneed? So as a mid-round pick that

immediately comes in and is a contributor, it doesn't have to be a huge role, but makes the unit he's on better. And as somebody will be talking about come playoff time as an X-factor sort of player. Ken, is a late second round count as a mid-round. Yes, late second round is okay. Okay. Well, It's funny because two of my answers are going to be Cowboys or the Cowboys Chiefs Offensive Lyman. I'm going to go with Creed Humphrey, the center for the chiefs. And I just think I'm just going to keep at it. We talked about the Chiefs.

A lot of my stuff I were talking about Orlando Brown and Thune. Same thing. I think Humphrey, yeah, he's a lefty center, which is hilarious, but they're going to be in a shotgun almost all the time. So it doesn't matter. He can switch his hands. He's fine. But it's, I think him, he is a really good center prospect.

And I think just going in there, maybe not right away. But I think over camp, I think he'll maybe take the role and run with it. When they get to their best five, he'll probably be the center. That means Blythe moving to guard or Trey Smith or whoever it is. He may be one of the best five. First preseason week, not starting. But then when they get to that third game or whatever, when they start playing the starters or, hey, you got to play the first couple quarters. I think that's where he gets his first start.

And everyone goes, oh, they have a rookie starting at center. But I think also having Thuney there, that's where it helps. Like you said, best five first off. But second off, just having a guy that used to play center as your. right next to you. Yeah. It only helps. I mean, look at John Feliciano with the bills.

I mean, that having Morris and him talking every play, you can see him communicating. Like that helps everybody. So I think that's going to really help. So I think Creed Humphrey is going to be one. I have a couple others just in case you didn't let me do a second rounder. So I want to hear what you say. I think Amari Rogers. Ah, yeah.

That's another one. I mean, so for a couple different reasons. To me, it fits that mold because it's such a specific role in the same way that Sneed was their slot corner in certain situations when they needed him to be with the chiefs. You have Rogers playing this hyper-specific role in Green Bay. And a role that we've talked about. It's a skill set they have not had. He's not the most explosive player. We know that. But I just think the types of stuff he can do the way he affects the game is unlike what they have on that offense. He's going to do stuff that they were asking Aaron Jones to do. And I mean, that that just allows the pieces to all

come together in a way that makes more sense to me. I don't know if he'll have more. more than 700 receiving yards as a rookie. That may even be with Rogers back. That may even be optimistic, but I think he will have a distinct and important role within their offense to just diversify what they are as this 20, 21 version. That's a great way to put it. Yeah, he has a role already that he's going to slot right into. And he is a very, literally slot right into.

I actually didn't even make that joke. That's good. Yeah, but he's going to go right into it. And he, he's, he's an okay punt returner. He's more, we talked about on the draft show, or post-draft. He's an efficient player. He is, he's going to get, if it's third and six, he'll get you seven yards. He is just like that at the slot position.

Which is so funny because the other guys they have are the opposite of that. Yep. Like, MVS is literally the opposite of that. He's going to get you a 60-yard touchdown or nothing. Nothing at all. Yep, I know. And he's just going to be the steady eddy for him. I completely agree.

He's the guy, we've talked about it. He's going to be that slot guy that everybody else in MC North is going to hate for the next decade or you know that's that's that's that's that's his upside is going to be that guy it's third and four it's a big play fourth and four and he's going to get you that five-yard game for the first down clock keeps winding and everyone get i'm going to hate him so much i know exactly it's going to be that just that steady eddie yeah no that's that was my other one that's funny you said that and then i just as a joke out of mirror smith marcette you know just got i figured you would make it here some out there just i throw him out there the other guy had was tommy togeye

from cleveland just because i have you heard really good reviews out of from him in o'teas and that's a position where he could get reps. They're just not that deep there. You know, Malik Jackson is coming off of year where he didn't play. Andrew Billings, I think, also same deal. That roles needed, too. That rolls really needed for what they did. I think he could be a part of their rotation right away.

I mean, tons of pedigree, you know, came in, I think, is a five-star recruiter, a four-star recruit, really good athletic testing numbers. So that's just another one to keep an eye. All right. Sticking with the defensive line, who do you think it would be this year's Vidavea, who was a former first-round pick that had been okay, And then in year three, it's just like, oh, shit. Like, that guy is a problem.

It's actually the same ascent. First year, okay. Second year, if maybe if you only pay attention, you realize that he's starting to get good. And I think he's going to send his Quinn and Williams. That's, I wanted to mention. I have six names in this category. He's one of them. I have three.

Like, I thought, there's one I think you're going to say. So that's why I didn't say. But, no, Quinn Williams. I have two that I thought we were on your list. Are your other two, Darnel Savage and Noah Fant? One's no a fan. Savage is the next question. But I want to just hear what yours is.

But no, so I, Quinny Williams, I mean, he's Alabama guy. He was a top five pick. It's watching him is fun. That's the best way to. You want to see a bar room brawler who can also move. Like, it is fun. He is just a wrecker.

We were talking about the big dudes from the Jaguar, Stroud and John Henderson. And like, this is like the new age version of this. that. He's not as big as them, but just as far as just wrecking and just double teams, he's holding his own. He, if you want to block a center on him, side to slender, he's going to just push him aside. He can run plays down to the sideline. He's got some pass rush ability. That's what I'm excited about. Him and this attacking style defense with that sort of a mindset

in the defensive line, Aaron Whitecott and their defensive line coach is from that Kassurik background. They are going to pin their ears back and go. And that's why I'm excited to see what he can do in that sort of defense. It's like, all right, this gap you have right here, go get the quarterback. That is literally all you're being asked to do. Yeah, no slanting. No, we're not going to bring these goofy Greg Williams pressure and make you slide over to the tackle.

You know, like, no, none of that. Just shoot. Hey, you're in the B gap. Go. You're in the A gap. Go. And we're going to get the, you one on one with the center and you better bullrush them back into the quarterback.

And I think he can do that. But no, great. Seems like a great dude too. So like an easy guy to cheer for. So I'm excited to see him. Noah Phant was another. one. I had another one, but it might have been too easy. Uh, uh, it's my too easy one is Brian Burns. I mean, that's just like, that's what it was. That was Brian Burns. I was the easy

one. I think that that's, he absolutely, and he might even be too good. He might, like, 2020, Brian Burns might be in 2020, bit of air, but in terms of like young guys that in year three, big, big leap, he could be the defense player of the year this year. He really good. I truly believe that. Isn't he, the more you watch him, the more you're just like, oh my God. Like, it's, This spins. It's the counter moves. It's the counter moves because a guy at that size just doesn't have that. No.

He just doesn't have. He doesn't have that bend and that ability to hit you with those change up pitches in the way that he does. Yep. And you know, like you see some pass rushers. You can tell they go like, it's like they're putting a button sequence on a video game where they're like and it takes them a second to spin. His is just boom. And it just, it's a drop of the hat. And like you said, 250 doing that 25.

And he's probably going to be a little. It makes no sense. It doesn't. It doesn't. And we, the knock we've talked about is, oh, he doesn't always use his strength. But I bet you he uses a strength this year once he realizes, I'm big now. I'm not 220 anymore. Like I could actually push these guys.

Yeah, I'm glad you said Brian Burns. I'm so happy. All right. Last one. This year's Stefan Diggs, who is not this year's DeForest Buckner. This is a slightly different category. A guy who was already borderline elite, but comes really international promises. We're talking about fantasy league winner, first team all pro, somebody that, like,

like truly ascends to the top of their position. My first little bullet point I had is I'm going to assume we've already talked about Brian Burns at this point. So I, that's literally what I wrote. But I'm going to go Darnell Savage. And we've talked about that. It's a really good one.

That's a really good one. He, man, he is good. And we've, that's been one of our narratives, I would say this off season is the assent of two way safeties. I think in the modern NFL. I think that's one of the realizations you and I have both had on this podcast.

and we've kind of now studied it and looked at it. This is going to be the new, I think, epitome of the two-way safety, the guy that can play the run, that play the pass, and a quarters-type defense or one that rotates down, this is the guy to do it. He's already a good, great player, I would say, very good to great player. He has the ability to cover guys one-on-one. He can legit cover receivers.

He can cover a guy like Jonu Smith in the slot. He's around the ball. He creates turnovers, like he's heady. He has athleticism. You see him close on something. It looks like a corner closing, but he's playing safety. And also, he's tough. It's not one of those guys where it's like he's playing a run just to hope that

somebody else is making the tackle and he's just a body sitting there. He filled up a run on Derek Henry, no problem. Like he, it's clinic tape. It's a stack, track and fallback. Like I think that's more a linebacker teaching. But he was doing it from the safety position because he's closing down in quarters because you have to be the run fit if you're a safety in quarters. He's closing in on it, boom, tracks him, makes a tackle.

it's like a six-yard gain. But if he misses that tackle like Derek Henry does to every other DB in the NFL, that's a touchdown. Those types of things, all of it coming together. He's an all-round player, already very good. I think he's going to take a little leap where everyone starts talking about it.

It's so funny because he plays for the Packers and you think you would have a little more pub about him at this point in time. Really good. I can't wait to see him. That defense could be really good. Really good. Really good. I know.

If it all comes together with Barry, it could be really good. There's so many nice pieces. The talent is insane. I mean, it's just, it really is kind of. The more you're like, wow, that's another good player. That's another good player. That's another great player.

They keep sneaking up on that. And even if Rishan Gary keeps going at the rate he's going. Like, it's just coming out of the woodwork. Yep. Rishan Gary is the one of my other answers I originally had by what off of for Quentin Williams. So, yeah, that's another guy. So, Sean Gary is also on my list in those answers. So mine is, it's probably a little bit cheap just because it's not coming from as much

obscurity as to find it. When I say obscurity, I mean, Stefan Diggs was being drafted as like the 20th receiver in fantasy last year. Yeah. Like, it just that, that to me is like, it speaks to expectations. My answer is Calvin Ridley. And it's, the jump is not as big. But I just think that Calvin Ridley, like, legitimately could be the most productive receiver in the NFL this year. He was even a pro bowler last year.

I know. He's got the Mitchell Schwartz treatment. Second team all pro. No pro bowl at receiver. I agree. Oh, was he second team all pro last year? Yeah. Oh, I look.

Oh, I feel. cheap doing that. No, no, because I only had two answers for this. And it was Darnel Savage and Calvin Ridley. And so I already had my notes on Reddit. But I had no idea he was second team all pro. I didn't know that until I looked it up. But I consider that a valid answer. For a guy that went to Alabama and playing a now first round pick and now playing a good offenses, people just keep making him out like he's a second banana. This dude is a number one receiver. Like, I mean, bonafide, borderline star receiver. And yeah, no, I completely agree with you. I'm sure you have more to say, but I don't think that's cheating at all because I don't think enough people

talk about them. I think that's the jump I'm talking about. It goes from being a really good receiver to being, is he the receiver that owns this season and the way that Devante Adams did last year? The Falcons might not be good enough for that to happen, but I think that his production could just be off the charts with Julio no longer there. And if you look at some of the underlying numbers, like his numbers actually align with Diggs's in really fun ways.

They both led the NFL. Like Diggs in 2019 and Calvreilly last year led the NFL in Deep Receptions with 16. catches of 20 or more air yards. I think Ridley was sixth in yards per out run last season. Like, I just think he has a chance to really, really blow up. Like, you could get him as the fourth receiver in fantasy football this year. He could absolutely finish his number one. Like, it would not surprise me whatsoever.

Oh, yeah. I was posting clips with him the other day. And people were like, well, we'll see how he does without Julio. Guess what? He played a lot of games without Julio, and that guy was dominating. I don't understand why he'd be worse without Julio. I know, right? I think that doesn't make any sense to me.

I know. I don't get it either. The route running stuff, he's just like super Corey Davis. Like, just like the little things he can do, he just, and not the body. It's body control. Yes. They have that core strength to him. Like that we, yeah, I never know how to say it, but it's like, that's what he has. It's like he's never out of whack.

Everything is just a, he's an efficient mover. The other guy I would say that obviously he's not coming from obscurity, but somebody that hasn't been talked about a lot of that position that I think could be Uber productive this year is O'Dell Beckham. Because no one talks about him right now. I just, it's the fact that people,

he's like the 20th receiver going off the board right now in some of these drafts and you look at it. I think that they're going to add elements to their offense this year that help him. Because if there, we got Schwartz and towed up some space, but more drift routes, more just things to increase their yak opportunities that I think are going to be a bigger part of their offense this year.

And he's the guy that can do that for them. Yep. So I legitimately think he could have a huge, huge year, and people have forgotten about him. All right. That's all we got. We're going to do a couple more of these, but we're going to save them for our Apple bonus episodes. So if you guys want to check those out, you are more than welcome. You'll be listening to this on Wednesday. So your Fourth of July weekend will have already happened.

I was going to say enjoy your Fourth of July weekend. But appreciate you guys listening. Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. That still does mean something to us. If you leave a review on Apple, I would very much appreciate that. I know it's a dead time. Also, please subscribe to the athletic. We're a couple weeks away from training camp.

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Me and Nate will be back next week for one more episode before training. camp and I'm excited to be on vacation after that. I'm excited to get to actual football stuff. But for now, thank you guys for listening. Please come back on Friday and listen to the last entry in our offseason interview series. It is one more NFL general manager had a lot of fun doing those. I hope you guys enjoyed them. So please come back and check that out.

Until then, thank you for listening. We'll talk to you guys later. This was the Athletic Football Show.