The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - 2022 NFL Draft: Brugler & Zierlein on the talent at the top, QBs & their favorite prospects

Episode Date: January 19, 2022

It’s officially draft season and The Athletic Football Show welcomes Dane Brugler and NFL.com draft analyst Lance Zierlein to the feed for complete coverage of the 2022 class. They discuss the main storylines to watch over the next few months, including the lack of elite prospects, the QBs, their early favorites and which teams are positioned well in the first round. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome back. I'm Dane Bruegler, as always, with my buddy, Lance Erline. This is the Athletic Football Show. We were known as Prospects to Prospects to Pros. Now, we're going to be part of the Athletic Football Show family, bringing you a weekly NFL draft podcast. So if you're already subscribed for Robert Mays and Nate Tice and all the great lineup of shows we have for you, you're all set. If you were with us on Prospects to Prospects to Prosos or you're a new listener, make sure you hit that subscribe to the athletic football show feed you'll get us once a week maybe more we'll see how the the schedule works out we've got a lot of other great shows on this feed so that's the housekeeping information we needed to go over we have a ton of info to touch on here our

first show of the year first off lance how you're holding up i know this is your the thick of your busy time as you kind of really dive into the tape watching all these guys yeah it really is um so just to kind of pull the curtain back a little bit. I have to write about 500 prospects. Last year they let me slip down to about 470, but it was also the first year that I never had to write someone after the draft was over. So that was like incredible that I had everyone I wrote up,

everyone that was drafted, I had write-ups for. So typically what happens for me is I like to get 60 to 70 players done in November and then 100 in December, 100 in January. and then, of course, I have to, I really, really my guidelines are I have to have every senior ball guy finished and then every combine participant finished. So more than likely I'll have about 350 players written up by the combine with another 150 to go after that. So I'm at about, I just crossed a 200 player threshold yesterday.

I'm at about 201 or 202 with Yusuf Korker, safety from Kentucky. Kentucky. Yeah, made, he's the last one. I've written up and I've got Devin Lloyd on deck today. I've still got some pretty good players that I still have to write up. So a lot of it will depend on when I'm getting my tape and how many games I have on certain players and things like that. So I've got all the tape I need.

I'm ready to roll. And I'm really looking forward to getting this podcast going again. Yeah, your brain kind of works like mine where it's like you've got checkpoints. So before January 1, you need to have X amount of profiles done. and then by the senior bully, because I do the same thing. You know, with my draft guide, I shoot for between 400 and 500 reports in there. And in order to get it done, you have to have X amount of done at certain checkpoints throughout the draft process. So yeah, I think the same way.

And all right, so for today's podcast, we've got a few segments planned. We'll touch on a few of our early favorite players. We'll take a look at the draft order, touch on a few teams that are maybe positioned well and kind of go over some of those conversations, but let's start with just laying the groundwork, hitting on what we think are going to be the main storylines the next few months. And I think first, we have to start with the fact that this is just not a very top-heavy draft. You know, we're missing that top-tier talent. Just as an example, Alabama's Evan Neal. He has a realistic shot of being the number one pick this year to the Jacksonville Jaguars. And last year,

does he go top 15 in last year's draft? I'm not sure that he does. And so this is a good draft. I don't want to, you know, start off by saying this is just a bad draft. It's a good draft. We're just missing those elite guys at the top. Am I correct in saying that based off of what you've seen? I think so. I mean, when you look at the draft, it reminds me a lot of the, I think it was a 2019 draft with Quinn and Williams and Jeffrey Simmons, Nick Bosa, Josh, Allen, I'm just looking through my whole list of graded prospects. And it was, that was a good draft, but not an overwhelming draft. I mean, Nick Bosa has become a really, really good player. Kyler, no, no, no, hold on a second. That was 2000. So Quinnon was 18 draft, right? That sounds right, yeah.

Yeah, because Kyler Murray was after that. So it's, that was a draft that I remember I had Quinnon Williams as my, as my top prospect. I think it was in a 2018 draft. And you had, no, it's 19. It's 19. Quentin Williams was that draft. And you just couldn't find the level of, oh, wow, in that draft, especially coming off of the Sequan Barkley and Quentin Nelson and they had Bradley Chubb and you had

Sam Darnold and Baker. You had a lot of splash in that 18 draft. 19 was kind of a downer. 20 picked up the pace. quite a bit, 21 as well, with Trevor Lawrence being at the top end. You don't have it this year. I don't, I'm not sure that I'm going to have more than one player who gets a 70 rating. And 70 rating for me is like pro bowl talent with a chance to become all pro. I just don't see it in this year's draft. And I definitely don't see the narrative of

exciting quarterback draft because let's face it, in our business, that's what gets people buzzing. Yeah, no question. And I think here is how I would kind of summarize it. In most NFL drafts, I think in general terms, there's maybe four to seven, you know, top tier guys, the upper class of the draft class. And that's followed by maybe 12 to 15 of the middle class of players who, they might not be elite, but they, you know, they receive first round grades from teams. They projected solid starters. I think the bad news is, is this class, we're just missing those upper class prospects. There's no Joe Burrow, there's no Miles Garrett, there's no Jamarck Chase.

this year. But I do think the good news, this draft is well positioned with the middle class first rounders. I think there's plenty of guys in this draft that they have NFL starting traits. There's guys that can come in and make impacts as rookies. They just might not be that Pro Bowl or All-Pro type of impact that we've seen this year from Jamar Chase or Roshan Slater. And, you know, it's been a really good rookie class this year. So not having those top-tier players in this class, I think, especially in the top 10, it's going to make it even more unpredictable than usual. I mean, there are surprises every year. We know that. But this year, we should suspect them very early because draft boards from team to team, they're going to look very, very differently. And honestly,

I'm here for it. You know, mock drafts be damned. Let's out, it's going to be fun. And my second mock draft of the year, my first one came out back in November. Mock draft 2.0 comes out today. Wednesday. So please go to the athletic, check that out. I've got a new name for you at number one, a name that you don't see at number one very often. But I think if you read my reasoning, you know, you'll understand why I landed there. So hopefully people go check that out. And something else that I wanted to mention too is we're going to hear a lot of fans saying, oh, trade back, trade back, trade back, you got to have a dance partner. I mean, who's going to want to move up in this class? And so I think we're going to see either fewer tradebacks or

maybe we're going to see, you know, the asking price is just not going to be as heavy as we've seen in past years in order for teams to move back and teams want to move up. To your point, I look at the Giants with two picks inside the top seven. And you almost, you know, if you're the Giants, I think the smart move is if you can get out of five or get out of seven and move back somewhere in the first round and really take advantage of that middle class in the first round as you talked about and at a future pick. think that's probably the move. And if you're going to trade up, my guess is you may be trading up for Rush. You may be trading up for cornerback. Because I think based on what I've seen and what I've graded so far, guys like Stingley, Sauce Gardner, depending on how you have Trent McDuffey rated out of Washington, I think

that the cornerback class is the one that could get pushed a little bit. And you could see the back, you know, the back half of that of that upper class first round that you talked about that usually is the top 12 and it's really more like top six or seven this year maybe that that might be the position that people come up for maybe offensive line you know maybe tackle tackle's another one that I know we've got a lot of time to get into this but tackle looks like it is a position it's obviously a priority position year after year and it might have enough in it with with three top players to push up that draft and and And Kenyon Green is a different guy, offensive line that I think has some life as a mover up the draft board as well.

So it's going to be an interesting draft in the way that it sets up. Dane is going to give us a lot of storylines over the next three to four months because I think it's going to be fluid. It's not going to be a static draft. There's going to be a lot of varying opinions. And there's a lot of cluster busters in terms of who do you like more, Tibadoe or Aiden Hutchinson, you know, which is who's your cornerback, sauce gardener or a guy who really hasn't performed as well over the last two years in stingley who is going to be your offensive tackle do you want the upside of neal or i mean do you want the solid evan neal or does ikey at north carolina state or even charles cross are they the ones that

you think have more long-term viability so um i am still very excited about how this draft breaks out and should make for some very good shows no there's no there's no doubt about it and yet to your point. I was going to bring up those tackles. Talking to people around the league, some view Evan Neal's a top tackle, some view Equanum from NC State as a top tackle, and some

look at Charles Cross and say, you know what, I'm going to bet on this guy. For as young as he is and as technically sound as he is with his hands and how he moves, I'm going to bet on Charles Cross. So there is no consensus. I don't think maybe any of these positions. Maybe besides Center, where Tyler

Linderbaum kind of has controlled. in that position. But, you know, it's a really interesting year. And to your point, you brought up that 2019 draft, Mike Mayock, who, you know, we just saw, unfortunately, you know, he got fired as GM of the Raiders. That draft, they had the number four pick. Cleland Farrell, they weren't trying to get out of that pick. Mike Mayock wanted to move back 10 spots to take Cleveland Farrell, couldn't get a deal done. So he stuck at four, stayed true to the guy he wanted, took Farrell. And, you know, his GM, career, his resume is going to be, you know, that's going to be a big part of it because he couldn't get out of that pick. And that's what we might see this year with teams that maybe want

to trade down, but just aren't going to be able to because the action is not going to be there. So, yeah, I think it's as we set up how this draft class is looking, starting at the top, it's some really interesting conversations that will have plenty of time to get into. And then the second main storyline that we have to touch on, of course, and you mentioned it a little bit earlier, is the quarterbacks. You know, last year we had, what, five quarterbacks pre-draft where I think you felt pretty good that all five are going to be NFL starters and at least give you a chance to win, if not right away with, you know, at some point during their rookie contract. And this year, I just don't know how you have any conviction in any of these quarterbacks that, hey, you know, this guy, he's going to be a top 15 quarterback in a league. Or, you know, this is going to be a guy that helps us compete for the division. am I being too harsh on this quarterback class? Are you seeing the same things?

Seeing the same thing. I do think there's some upside to the quarterback class. I don't think it's a dead class by any stretch of the imagination. But I think there are some considerable flaws and concerns with pretty much each of these guys in the group. And when you look at it as a whole, you didn't have, there was no additional momentum built for Desmond Ritter. If anything, his momentum kind of trailed off after the. college football playoff game. I don't really think it was through any fault of his own, but he doesn't really have a lot of momentum right now. Malik Willis, his momentum really cratered

toward the back end of the year. He just didn't play all that well in the second half of the season. Matt Corral. I think Matt Corral didn't do anything to hurt his draft stock. I think he's still a talented quarterback. Doesn't have great size, just got injured in the game, and it has a background where you question maybe some maturity concerns. And then Kenny Pickett's that kind of out of nowhere. Prospect, listen, we've seen it with Kyler Murray, we've seen it with Joe Burrow. But when I watch Kenny Pickett's tape, there was not the same level of flashes that I was going, that I wanted to get excited about.

And I do have serious reservations about whether or not he can play with poise from the pocket. You mentioned a word that I used in my, when you and I talked, that I mentioned in my scouting report, because it's just very apropos. There's some scarring based on previous pocket pressure that, Pickett has faced, and it shows itself with the way that his internal clock causes nervousness and the way his feet will fail to maintain their poise and point to targets and, you know, and hang in like he needs to. He's not a great pocket climber. He tries to avoid the pocket

up and over the top of tackles, which is a notoriously bad decision for quarterbacks who like to scramble. So I'm with you on the quarterback class. I think there's going to be a lot of drama about who goes where and why, but I don't think that it's going to include a push-up the board for these prospects. Almost every year we see it, but I don't think this is going to be the year where we see more than one guy who makes it inside the top seven. I just,

I don't know if there's anyone that can help themselves enough during the draft process to make that a reality. Yeah, I agree. And it's going to be interesting with six of probably the top seven quarterbacks that will be drafted. Six of them will be at the Senior Bowl, including several underclassmen, Sam Howell will be in there.

Carson Strong, obviously, the medicals with his knee is a big part, a big variable with his projection. For you, Lance, is there a clear favorite? As we get into this process, before the All-Star Games, before the Combine,

before workouts, before interviews, is there a clear favorite among these quarterbacks to be the first drafted? I think Pickett. is the favorite for me. I could see where you can make a case for Corral. I can't see a case for Willis. I can't really see a case for Ritter,

who's also kind of a one-year guy. Who am I missing? Who's the other one? How? How is mentioned. I definitely don't see Sam Howell. So, no, I mean, to me, I see Sam as more of a third or fourth rounder personally,

so I don't see Sam Hal even in the first. So I think that based on what I studied, Now, you know, we take our studies of tape and then you do projections and then you add physical traits and characteristics. I think Carson Strong is the other one I was thinking of. The medicals are going to prevent that from happening. The best arm in the draft, it's probably Carson Strong with a close second with Malik Willis, when you consider accuracy, placement, and pure velocity. Those two guys are special.

I like Pickett a lot. I think Pickett has plenty of arm. I think Matt Corral, his release really improves his arm. his armed talent. He has good arm talent. I think the release improves his arm strength. But when I take a look at, okay, show me productivity. Pick it this year.

Show me physical traits. Pick it. Show me a guy who worked with some full field concepts. Let's pick it. I have enough to rally around Kenny Pickett and convince myself that he would be ahead of a guy like Corral or certainly strong because of injury issues. Malik Willis, Desmond Ritter. I got to tell you, I was actually pleasantly surprised with Desmond Ritter's tape.

I think you had talked about it early. I saw you make a comment. I hadn't watched him. I don't want to watch really too much carefully because I want to have all my tape so I don't develop a bias for or against a player. And I want to unload everything on the same day when possible. And, you know, his poise really sets him apart. He understands that offense, but he's a poised performer.

there's a lot of things to really like about him. I like the football IQ. I like a lot of the mental makeup for Desmond Ritter. There's some things to really like about him. I don't love the arm strength, and I think he doesn't work with enough timing, and that's going to get him in some, and really the placement is a big concern for me.

I was really surprised that the placement was so shoddy on some throws that you would think it wouldn't be an issue, and yet it does show up. It's sporadic. I mean, you could throw on some highlights where, you know, in the second half of that Notre Dame game, he's making some beautiful throws that you're like, okay, yeah, that translates. But then you watch the full scope of his tape and you just, you're left wondering,

okay, why is it's so up and down? And his release is a little bit long. He's really skinny. And so can he put on a little bit more, a little more weight, kind of fill out a little bit more? But, you know, there's talent. There's no question. And I agree with everything that you said. and similar with Pickett as well.

And I think that what Joe Burrow is doing in the playoffs is only helping Kenny Pickett. Now, whether or not they should be compared is another question. Right. But, you know, they don't live in the same house, but they might live on the same street. Just, you know, maybe a mile down the road. But, you know, because, you know, they don't have those elite physical traits in terms of arm and, you know, good enough athlete, mobile. They can move around a little bit. you know, with Pickett, the way he came on this year, and I think you're used to the word scarring is perfect,

because you can tell he's been beat up in the past with the way that, you know, the Georgia Tech Tate really kind of stands out in that respect where, you know, he's, you can tell he's counting in his head, 1,000, 2,000, and then he looks around and he's like waiting to get hit, but it's not coming. And the offensive line's doing their job. And he's like, oh, shoot, okay, I got more time here. And then he finds someone that is open. What I love about Pickett was he could be accurate at all three levels. You know, the way he can improvise as well, move the pocket. I think that's something that works in his favor.

So this is just, it's not a quarterback class to get excited about, but it's still a quarterback class that's going to be a lot of fun because there's going to be so many different opinions, so many different, you know, from team to team, they're going to look at these guys differently. Scheme-wise, what's going to fit best for them, you know, for teams, you know, Washington is going to be looking at maybe a guy that's going to come in and help them right away, where, you know, another team might be looking at more down the road,

a team like, you know, Atlanta in the second round. Matt Ryan's the starter now, but maybe they could find their guy who's going to be the starter in two years in this draft. So it's just a really interesting quarterback class. And we'll be diving more into that in the coming weeks, especially after the senior bowl, when I think that could be an opportunity for one of these guys to maybe move ahead. And, you know, okay, last thing on the quarterbacks before we move on, over under three quarterbacks in the first round.

What do you think? Not your grades, but when, when, you know. I think Sean Watson will eventually move, so that will take one of the positions away. Big Ben is gone. I think once all of a sudden could catch competition sooner than we thought. I still think when it's all. said and done three would be the number i don't think it'll be over i think it i think it lands on

three i think the saints are team to to keep an eye on i believe they have a first round pick this year yes so when i look at the saints i look at matt corral i go who he sure does fit what they like to do offensively passing wise then i look at a guy like a week spoiler for my my mock draft uh coming out today that that's that's exactly the marriage uh matt corrality that's why we do a podcast together that's it yeah i mean because i think he needs to be in a very very particular type of offense, but then flip side of that, I think Malik Willis is in a bad offense for him. I think Malik Willis could really benefit from a more pro-style attack, maybe some boot action stuff where it simplifies the reads and lets him work faster and quicker.

I don't think you need to have, see, I don't believe in the four and five-wide concept necessarily being good for young quarterbacks. I don't think it helps them. I think it can simplify things if that's the way the offense is built out in college, but it doesn't necessarily prepare you for the pros, and it's harder to run in pro football as well. So I'm not always a big believer in a spread attack. I know it's kind of become what people are used to. Everybody's working out of the gun. But I think there's definitely something to be said for Kyle Shanahan's attack.

I think there's something to be said for what the Minnesota Vikings do with Kirk cousins. I mean, you look at Kirk Cousins, 33 touchdown, seven interceptions this year. If I just told you quarterback A was 33 and 7, you wouldn't guess Cousins. But Cousin's productivity is always good because they rely on the run. They work off play action. The Rams do a lot of that as well. We saw them very successful against the Cardinals run first, play action second.

I think there is something to be said for creating a levels passing attack and letting a guy like Malik Willis throwing a space as opposed to trying to be pinpoint with the accuracy, limiting the reads a little bit, simplifying it, making it a more allowing him to play faster. think that's a good thing for most quarterbacks, to be honest with you. I'm a big believer in the outside zone scheme with play action off of it. But then for other guys like, you know, for example, for other guys like Matt Corral, I think the quick hit, you know, possession, pass, and attack, RPO, I think it's a perfect fit for him. So not every quarterback is, is destined to play in the same scheme. I think that goes without saying. But I think Malik Willis is a guy as we,

as we roll down the path towards the draft, there needs to be a little bit more expanded conversation about schematics for quarterbacks because it really does matter. No question. Yeah, let Malik Willis Reed, hide a low, let them get out in space. And yeah, I agree with you there. And safety with Corral.

And you watch that old miss offense, the way it operates under Lane Kiffin. It's a lot of defined, you know, passing reads with what he's asked to do. And he, the ball jumps off his, his arm. Everything he does is quick. Whether it's his eyes, his movements, the way the ball is up and gone. So with Corral, yeah, I agree. I think that is definitely a marriage that could work with Sean Payton. And obviously the Saints, they need to figure out something in a quarterback

going into this offseason. So there are several teams with Washington. You mentioned the Steelers. I mean, are they really comfortable with Mason Rudolph as their guy next year? I don't know how you could be, but we're probably going to have a new general manager in Pittsburgh as well. So some new front office and, you know, there's a lot of unknowns right now as we start this process. Next segment I want to pivot to here. And I'm excited for this because Lance, you and I we're usually texting back and forth, bouncing opinions off each other. I've purposely tried to scale back some of our texts this year because I want to be blind with how you feel about some of these guys.

Yeah. It's going to make for some more fun podcasting. So for this next segment, we're going to go back and forth, and I want to hear a few of your favorite players this year. Not necessarily the best players you've seen, but maybe a few guys where maybe you had low expectations going in, for whatever reason, and you were surprised with what you saw. Or maybe a guy where you just, you didn't need to watch another tape, but you wanted to watch another tape because you just wanted to enjoy it.

You enjoy watching them play. And so is there, I'll give you mine too, but I'll let you go first here. Who are some of those guys that kind of fit that description? All right. Let me start with my first one. That would be Jermaine Johnson, Florida State defensive end. Transfer from Georgia will be the highest player ever drafted from that appeared on the Netflix documentary Last Chance You. He was there with Jason Brown in independents and survived.

There at last chance you had Independence. I'm going to tell you, I didn't have a lot of, I didn't have expectations. I just turned a tape on. And what I saw, I went back and watched Georgia tape first because I wanted to see what he looked like before. So I went back and watched some 20 tape, then I watched 21. Then I had to reach out to a strength coach. And here's why.

He looked stronger. He looked more physical at the point of attack. Personal physical growth is something that I'm still coming to grips with from a projection standpoint and a scouting standpoint because who they are when they're 21, 22, even 23 is not necessarily who they're going to be. Some guys get maxed out. Like Leonard Floyd is not a lot bigger now. I mean, he's bigger, but he's still not going to be a big guy.

But then you see other players on the field, like Samson Ebukon comes to mind that I saw him the other day. But, I mean, you see other offensive linemen, you see linebackers, you see defensive ends who just get bigger and stronger, depending on the weight program, the nutrition, and the time they put into it. And when I watched Jermaine Johnson,

I saw a guy who was, first of all, stronger at Florida State. I think he just put the time in and just physically started to grow into his body. That happens naturally at that age anyway. Very good at the point of attack, good with his hands. I saw an unbelievably wiggle-based pursuit guy

who when he's after you, he can stay. It's the heat-seeking missile thing where he doesn't have to move linear. It's not a linear movement. It's a completely fluid movement to follow and flow with the course of the ball. I think he's going to make a lot of plays as a run defender, and I saw upside as a pass defender. So he was one of the guys where I wanted to keep watching because I'd see flash and flash and flash. And my projection, I kicked them up into my 64s, which is the first round grade,

because I really project him. What I saw on tape is highly projectable. Traits, attitude, demeanor, toughness, two-way potential. I just saw a guy that I was really excited about. So Jermaine Johnson, right off the bat, fits the bill for me in that category you're talking about. I 100% agree. This is a first-round player. And he had so many sacks this year, but I think I was more impressed.

You mentioned this, how he showed up in the run game because of his ability at the point of attack. Because of his instincts, you know, there was a play on that Miami tape that comes to mind where, you know, he made a big tackle for a loss because he saw the play coming and was able to shed and take the right angle, close, and make the play in the backfield. So he has a lot of what you're looking for, a lot of ingredients. And, you know, we talk about coming from Georgia, you know, why did you transfer for your final year? Could you not cut it on that defense? And, I mean, it was all about opportunity for him. His snaps, his defensive snaps, went from something like 27 to over 60 at Florida State. And that Georgia defense is just, it's a lot of, they have so many guys on that side of the ball.

They can swap guys in and out constantly to keep guys fresh and, you know, keep guys playing at top level. And, you know, they don't have to have guys playing 60 snaps a game. Where at Florida State, Jermaine Johnson was the alpha on that defense, especially at defensive line. And he showed up in a big way. So I agree with you there. For my first guy here, I want to talk about Trayvon Walker at Georgia. I'm going to try not to gush too much here. And maybe this is hyperbolic.

But five years from now, we look back at this draft, I would not be surprised at all if Trayvon Walker is the best defensive player in the NFL from this draft class. I think he has that type of ability. When you look at the traits, you look at how far he still has to go in terms of getting better and better and better. For a guy that's built like he is, his athleticism. And Georgia would drop him in space. And he's moving like a linebacker at 275, 280 pounds. His speed to chase and make plays.

He's still learning how to use his hands and break down blocks on the edge as an edge rusher. But very strong in the run game, he can outflank blocks to contain plays. He's long. He's powerful. He has the fluidity. He has the athleticism. So I just, all the tools are there. All the traits are there for Chavon Walker to come in.

He could play inside, can play outside. I think his ceiling as an NFL player is so high that I would be surprised if he falls out of the top 15 picks. This is what's great about this podcast. I've got him like 60th. Don't like him that much at all. I think he's stiff. Don't see pass rush potential. Love the run stuff stuffing.

I think for a guy who does. doesn't bend much. He's got weird leverage ability because he uses his hands at leverage positions. He fires out of his stance with his hips. I think he is an A plus run stuffer, and I just don't see him as a two-way player. I think he's a classic three, four, five technique for a team like the Steelers, because he's got the build. I think he has the frame to be 290 pounds and carry it exceptionally well. He's got linked. He always outreaches the blockers. Let me tell you the stuff I love about him. He always outreaches the blockers. He's into you first. He keeps people off. of him keeps him clean he's got the ability to punch and steer a tackle into positions that he

doesn't love um he fires and explodes from his lower body from hips to hands is where the power really is generated um i think he can close down the line very quickly in a in a straight line i think he's more linear than fluid personally what i didn't see was i didn't see a bendy rush i didn't see him able to get to counters um i didn't see the the the fluidity in space that I like to see from a rusher. Now, let me also, I need to point this out too. See, I have a natural predisposition and bias, I think, against stiffer power players. And this is something I already know.

It's something that Romeo Acora, I would have told you that guy's barely draftable. And look where he is right now from Notre Dame. I mean, he's kind of a stiff player. Michael Clemens from Texas A&M, kind of a waistbender. Like, that's not what I like. like. But then again, I called a couple of teams because I said, let me just check and see if the old power guy who I don't see coming is going to end up getting drafted higher than I thought. And sure enough, a team I talked to said, no chance he falls out of the second round

because he's too strong. He's too tough. And you know, the thing about the NFL, and so when I give you my opinion on Trouon Walker, I'm not telling you I'm right. I'm just telling you that there's a greater chance that it plays into my biases of what I want in a rush. We all develop, if we were general managers. There's all types that we would, you know, we would all develop our type. You and I are trying to do this for 32 teams and we do it for readership as we project for 32 teams. But the reality is if Dane Bruegler is picking a pass rusher, you want a certain kind of guy. If you're looking for an offensive lineman, you're looking for a certain kind of tackle, maybe a certain kind of guard, a certain schematic fit, a certain type of

quarterback, wide receiver, a slot linebackers. That's great. With the Pittsburgh, Chris Ballard and the Colts are going to draft. linebackers with 34-inch arms who are 228 pounds who run into four-fives. Bill Belichick's going to pick 260 pounds. Like, why don't they just right now give Leo Chanel to the Patriots? I don't even know why we have to have a draft. Just give 261-pound inside linebacker who was like a cinder block with arms and legs. Just give them to the Patriots to go with Juan Bentley and every other lineback you've had forever.

So certain teams have certain types. And so Trevon Walker is just not my particular type. but what I have recognized over the years of doing this is that guys like Chirvonne Walker who are really strong, they have a tendency to figure out the rush and become more skilled and get better with their hands from a rush standpoint. So I'm certainly not riding him off. And I can see elements of why you like him. I just wanted to project more of the rush on an individual basis and not when you're surrounded by a bunch of draft picks. Sure.

And I think it's also fair to point. that Georgia just didn't really let him pin his ears back and go. You know, they didn't really, they didn't give him that opportunity where he was asked. They would line him up inside, let him have a nose tackle, line him up, just they'd ask him to contain on the edge. So, you know, he's a little tough to project in that respect because you want to see a little bit more out of him with what you're going to be asked to be doing. And if he's going to be drafted as high as I think he'll be drafted, there's a little bit of a projection there. So that's fascinating. And this is exactly what, you know, why I didn't want to have these conversations before the podcast because that's great.

We agree on Jermaine Johnson. Disagree a little bit on Trayvon Walker. I'm eager to hear where you're going next. All right. You know what? I'm bringing this guy up intentionally because I want to play into my philosophy of rush, who I like rush-wise. Here's an example. Like I was very high on Jason Owey, Adafé O'Oway last year

because I projected the traits in the explosiveness and I worry about coaching lay. I think that they'll coach that kind of stuff up. Here's another guy, and this will give you an idea of why I'm less excited about a Tron Walker type than I am about Dominique Robbins. No, although he's in there too. Dominique Robinson, edge defender from Miami, Ohio, two-year-wide receiver.

He is, I'll read my scouting report, my bottom line, wide outturned quarterback hunter with the bricks and mortar needed to build an impactful career as a 3-4 outside rusher or 4-3 rush in. Robinson looks much different in his uniform than the rest of the teammates and frequently flashes despite his relative inexperience at the position. He's quick off to snap using plus fluidity, athleticism, and bend to trim the edge and assail the pocket. You see how he used assail the pocket and needs additional moves and counters before he's ready to beat pro tackles.

He needs to get stronger and more technically sound and run support. but has the capability of playing with his hand in the ground. However, aligning as a stand-up rush linebacker might help expand his range as a playmaker in space. Robinson profiles as an unpolished gym with a high ceiling and a stable floor. So there's a guy that to me that I project based on traits that I kind of like out of Russia. I comp them to Whitney Merciless, who I saw here with the Texans for years who came out of Illinois and was a little bit raw when he actually came out of, you know, it was a little bit unpolished when he came out of Illinois and developed a lot of

polished especially under Mike Vrable. But that's an example of the type of Rush or Dane that I like is projectable long-limb guys with juice and bend. That's just, I'm just showing you my bias. No, and I think that's, and I'm with you on with Dominic Robinson. Not a first rounder, by the way. No, no. I don't have him as a first rounder, but did day two guy have him?

Yeah, I gave him a third round grade myself, so I'm with you on him. And he's fascinating backstory. A quarterback in high school. goes to Miami and Ohio and becomes a wide receiver, transitions to Pass Rusher in 2020. So he's going into this draft with zero starts at Edge Rusher, six and a half sacks to his name. So it just doesn't have, you know,

what a lot of box score scouts are going to love in terms of the productivity. But to, you know, with what you were saying about the traits, it's all there for him to put it together. He's twitched up. He's got that get-off burst. Body control so he can best. dip, maneuver around blockers.

I mean, I agree with everything that you said. It's, he needs to get a little bit better versus the run, you know, develop some of the countermeasures. But the pass rush potential is exciting because of the athletic traits. So, and I also like that he, he has special team experience. He played on every single coverage over his college career. So he can give you a little bit of that as well before he's ready to step in and be a starter. Probably talking about a sub package rusher as a rookie.

and then we'll see where that goes from there. But I'm with you. He is a good player. Who's up next for you? So I'm going to go with another potential first rounder, a guy down by your way, Logan Hall out of Houston. And this is another bit of a projection because I actually like him better on the edge, as opposed to inside of the defensive tackle, which is...

Yeah, that wasn't a fit for him, I didn't think. Right. Two upright. 6-6, 270, 270. I think that, you know, he, get him on the edge, give a little bit of a runway, and let him use that length to his advantage. Let him use that quickness, because he's a good athlete. And, you know, he showed up at Houston. It wasn't very much. I mean, he's like 225 pounds, 2030 pounds. He's put on a lot of weight. He's really developed. He didn't redshirt at Houston,

so he's a four-year senior. So still a guy that I think has developing to do, still only 21 years old. turn 22 yet. And I think this is a guy long twitchy athlete. I love the way when he starts low, strikes upward. He can come at you from different angles. So there are some tweener traits here, but give him additional coaching. He could be a matchup weapon, I think, on the edge. That athletic versatility, the body length, he can be disruptive. So I see a guy with Logan Hall who could be a first round pick. You know, I compare him naturally. It's going to make sense to compare him to Peyton Turner. I think Peyton Turner is, I like Turner more than Logan Hall.

But what I saw at Logan Hall was, and what I struggled to figure out was, how do I project them because the flashes are there? Like, he's a projectable player. So in my mind, I had to say, okay, where does he play? Like, how do you play him? And I agree, can he play base end? Can he rush as a base end? Because I think his best rush, I'm not sure it isn't inside because he does play a little

bit upright. I think he will get kind of jostled around being a tall player who tries to make counter moves inside. But then again, that brings up schemes. So if you have a place that really schemes, you know, blitz looks and brings blitz so that you can create individual matchups guard on, you know, three technique and you don't get any help from the center where you slide the other way. Then all of a sudden you've got a guy like a long-limbed Logan Hall who might have a huge length advantage on a guard. So that's also important is where they get schemed into. Yeah, I think he's really intriguing to me.

He's a guy that I really, I'm excited about the postseason process. I can anticipate him being a mover for me upwards based on the postseason. There are guys that I know that I'm kind of waiting to see. I'm a little, I put a higher grade on it and I felt in my heart they deserved, but I usually like to go down a little bit as opposed to up. but Logan Hall is one I've got circled because I struggled. I gave him a 62, which is like an average starter. And typically you'll find those guys in the second round a lot of times,

depending on what level can be early. They're usually top 60 picks. But he's a guy that I could see because of his traits moving up my draft board, depending on how he does in the postseason. I'm going to give you my last one. And there's so many that I could shout out. But I want to shout out of a running back that I love. I couldn't get enough of them is Damien Pierce out of Florida.

Why, you know, if you give this guy 89 carries in a year, go ahead and fire the staff. What in the world are you giving this guy 89 carries for? He had the most rushing yards against Georgia of any running back all year, including Brian Robinson. He had nine carries for 69 yards. You know how I know? Because I'm like, dude, he's getting everything on his own here. Like, he's earning every yard he gets against Georgia. and he got 69 yards in nine carries.

He averaged more than seven yards of carry. When you go watch it, he's physical. He's a roughneck the way he runs. He is just as tenacious as you could possibly hope for. He's got a little bit of a weird tempo to him the way he runs, but he is an absolutely attack-oriented runner who is going to stack yards after contact because he's so powerful in his lower half. He's like 5-9-218, I think is what I had on him before the season started, verified measurements.

And for me, Damien Pierce, to only to get less than 100 carries this year, was absolutely criminal. That's a guy that I really enjoyed watching. And I wanted to watch even more tape on him because he lost his helmet. What was the game, Dane? I know you know the game where he lost his helmet and dove head first into guys looking to tackle him. It was like... Was that Florida State? It was late in the year.

I remember that. Florida State. Yeah, it was rivalry game. So it's Florida State. I mean, he's a lunatic in a good way. Oh, he's wired the right way. He's wired exactly the way you like him. So I was a big, I had a lot of fun watching Damian Pierce. I mean, I had a lot of fun watching Jojo Doman just because he's that same kind of salty player who, you know, I gave Jojo a 61, which is, and I might be a little low on Jojo, which is more like a third, fourth. He doesn't really profile as a, as a, as, you know, I gave Jojo a 601, which is, and I might be a little low on Jojo, which is more like a third, he doesn't really profile as a, as a top 100 pick from a physical standpoint. And yet, you know, he's out there making a bunch of plays, covering slots, knocking guys, you know, bleeps in the dirt. I mean, he was fun to watch. Leo Chanel, another one, fun to watch.

Doesn't really know where he's going half the time. What do you do with him, you know, in passing situations? That's the only question with him. Take him out. Well, that's, yeah, exactly. Can he do enough where you can line him up as an outside rusher? Can he drop and do enough in coverage? But as a run defender, I mean, is he the best run?

run defending linebacker in this class? I mean, his contact balance is so good. It's ridiculous. He might, and it's the freaky thing is when you think he's out of a play, his recovery, he's like a weeble wobble. You can't get him all the way down. He bounces back up. Try to redirect him when he, A-GAP blitzes you.

I don't care. You could push him almost to the ground and somehow he's on top of your quarterback. Like, he might be the strongest pound-for-pound player in this draft, and that's not a joke. And there's rumors that he could touch 40. in the bench press this year. So I'm interested to see how he develops as a player because I think he still has development. So enjoying watching doesn't necessarily mean you have the highest grades on them. Those are the guys I enjoyed. Who's your last one? I'm going to sit with running back. I'm going to

go Tyler Algier from BYU, who loved the backstory again with this guy, former walk-on. Nobody wanted him out of high school. And he was productive in high school. I just went overlooked. I had one scholarship offer that was from Division 2, Southern Nazarene. So he, so he, He walks on at BYU. He's working at Walmart's freshman year just to pay the bills. And he's not part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So his tuition was a lot more than the normal student that goes to BYU. So, you know, all he does is goes to BYU, puts his head down and works.

Moving to the linebacker as a registered freshman, all right, fine, I'll play half the season at linebacker. They moved back to running back in 2020. The last two years, he has been just a. outstanding for BYU. He's average over six yards of carry. I get a lot of James Connor vibes with him. Just that big body's got a solid build. Not a burst type of athlete, but he's a good athlete. But I think what really sets him apart, very decisive with his runs, minimal wasted motion. His eyes and feet are tied together. He's very good at reading his blocks, making

timely cuts. So I think he'd help you out in passing situations. He can stay home and block. He can be a screen receiver. It just reminds me a lot of Connor in that way, where, you know, he's probably going to end up as a top five running back for me, probably maybe in the top 100, third, fourth round in that range. Just a lot to like about Tyler Algier and what he brings to the pro game. Yeah, real hustle and flow runner has terrific, he has terrific processing fluidity.

Like the one thing that I love watching Zone Scheme runners over the years, and he's make no doubt this is his own scheme back. But watching Aaron Foster, the things that struck me were tempo and his seamless ability to process and get to the next move. And I think he has some of those same traits. When you watch him run, he gets to the next move. He sees the backside cutback development. I am a little bit concerned about burst.

You mentioned it. That's one thing that concerns me a little bit because, you know, you can, but he's a decisive back. So that helps in that regard. So yeah, he is a, he was a fun watch as well. I had a personal guy say, who do you like better in the running back, turn lineback or turn running back conversation, him or Abram Smith. And it got me thinking because they're both bigger zone scheme backs who, but their running

styles are very different to me. So, you know, one is more of a bruiser who's a little more upright. And the other guy is more traditional in the way that you like for it to, to look and flow. but Abram Smith from Baylor is going to be stick the foot in the ground, go as hard as you can downhill, and whoever gets in your way, you collide with them and onto the next. And if they don't collide with you, then you can turn it into a big run. So very different types of zone scheme backs, but interesting backstories being a little similar in terms of how they bring. Former linebackers, yeah, no question.

And real quick before we pivot, give me one position that, you know, kind of the same conversation where you just, you really like. the guys at a certain position, top 100, or the entire class, top 10, whatever, what's one position that's really stood out to you as maybe being a little bit stronger than others? I still have some work to go on DBs. I typically wait on them. I think that this year's edge rush. I think there's some really traits-based edge rushes this year.

It's deep, too. Is it Boy Maffei? How's it pronounced from Minnesota's got a ton of traits? Dominique Robinson. David. Ojoabo? Yeah, Ojobo from Michigan is another one. There's similar types of rushers that I tend to really gravitate towards the length guys who have the explosiveness.

My thing is a little bit more of a power guy than Ojaba, then Ojabo is going to be. But Ojabo is ridiculous. I've never seen a player like him so raw in so many ways and yet so advanced as a pass rush. And we had him in studio. He emailed, I'd email just to get permission to use something. And he emailed me permission. I talked to his agent. And he said, hey, I noticed you're in Houston.

Well, that same morning, I said, yeah, I'm here on the radio right now. He came into the studio that morning. And I asked him, I said, how did you pick up these rush moves? It doesn't make sense that you don't know how to set an edge properly right now and take on blocks. And yet you're throwing these moves out there that guys who are four-year starters can't even think about. And he said what he did was he watched Frank Clark tapes, but more importantly, Josh Uche, who was at Michigan. He said Josh, when he wasn't playing, would go off in the corner and work on his hands and work on moves, almost like a shadow boxer and would work on moves. And David said he would just watch and mimic, watch, absorb, and mimic what he did.

Then he did the same thing with not Uche, but. Quitty Pay. Quitty Pay. That was the other one. He said he got a stutter step move where he stutters and goes on a two-way go. He got that from Quitty Pay. He got some of the hand stuff and spin-move stuff from Josh Uche. And then Frank Clark kind of sealed the deal with rounded out the Michigan rushers that he studied.

But really, he is an artist of mimicry who can mimic and put it into play. And so he is that raw. Everything you see on tape, he's really that raw. But then when you see an inside jab followed by an outside spin, that's not real life. Like, you can't do that with that level of experience. Yeah, with the ice pick at the end there. I mean, yeah, he's, it is weird because exactly like you said,

he mixes in this, oh, wow, he knows how to do that. But then, you know, there's plenty he just doesn't know yet. I mean, it's just, he's so, he's five years. He's been playing the game of football. And it's, it makes for a tough projection because, you know, working on this mock draft, I reached out to several league guys. and just kind of, you know, do you see this guy between picks, you know, 7 and 15 or whatever? And with OJabo, there's a lot of late, late first round.

It's because he is so raw, because you kind of have to hide him as a run defender right now. But when you have the ability that he has, and especially in this class, I just have a hard time seeing him falling out of the top 15. Because the pass rush. Yeah. The pass rush upside is so special for a guy that, still doesn't know what he's doing, but had 11 sacks in the Big Ten. He was second in the Big Ten in Sacks this year, second only to his teammate, Aidan Hutchinson.

So for a guy, I mean, we talked about Oway last year who, similar conversation, you know, freaky talent, still figuring things out, but there was that, you know, the elephant in the room was the zero sacks. This guy, you know, the same type of conversation, except he had 11 sacks last year. The pressures were all over his tape. So, yeah, OJabo is a fascinating conversation that we will get into more. more. Okay, before we wrap up, one last segment I want to hit on. We have the draft order at least the first, what, 24 picks or so in the first round. I want to kind of look at these teams a little bit and maybe, you know, give me one team that stands out to you as, you know, the most interesting

team to you either because they have to hit or they have multiple picks or they're in a position where they're one, maybe one player away from really taking that next step. What's the one team in those top 24 picks, the draft order that we know so far, that really stands out to you? I think it's easy. I think it's the Giants for me. You have a new head coach, you have a new general manager on the way. You've got a decision to make on Daniel Jones, who I think still has a shot if you get the right things around them, but you're not really there right now. What do you do with Sequan Barkley? How do you hand it? How do you hand it? handle the two first round picks.

Do you consider maybe trying to package one of them in a deal to go land a guy like Laramie Tunsell, for example, for the Texans? Would you consider, you know, doing something like that? Maybe not that high a pick, but maybe there'd be a flip-flopping of picks, you know what I mean? But I think that what the giants are going to do this year with, you know, figuring out how to use Sequan or do you even try to trade him? What are you doing with Daniel Jones? If you get Brian Flores in, do you start trying to sniff around on Deshaun

Watson potentially in trade. What's your new general manager going to look like? What's the power structure between head coach and GM and how do they utilize these two picks in the top seven? I think they are for me, the most fascinating top 10 team because there's so much to fit into place that it is really, it could really go in one of two directions. And I'm really curious to see how they start to place all of these questions. I talked about have to be answered, and it's going to be, and it needs to take place within

the next four months. Right. You know, how do you answer all those questions in four months? Well, if you're the giants, you're going to have to try to do it. Yeah, do you strip it down or do you try to kind of build off of what they have going now? And yeah, there's some big decisions they have to make, whoever they end up higher in. All right, I'm going to stay in the Meadowlands for my pick. And I'm going to go with the Jets.

Obviously, last year's draft, taking Zach Wilson number two overall, they're going to be judged based off of last year, based on the quarterback, how he plays out. This past year as a rookie, more bad than good, probably. But at the same time, we have to look at the context and look at him missing his left tackle for basically the entire year. We have to look at the 12.7% of his throws, his past attempts, were dropped.

And not having the help at receiver or tight end that I think are going to help him. So with the Jets having two picks in the top 10, four and 10, where does Joe Douglas, the general manager, look at this team and say, okay, this is where we need to get better? Is it going to be on the offensive line? Is it going to be at wide receiver? Is there a wide receiver in this draft that he sees worthy of that 10th pick? Or, and then you have to look at the defensive side of the ball where they need help at basically every level. So the Jets could go in a lot of different directions here with those two first-round picks. And they have, I think, multiple picks in four. the first five rounds, something like that.

So they have plenty of draft capital to work with. I think the Jets are a really intriguing team. And I think we also have to mention just the Eagles with three first round picks, all of them in the teens. That's just going to be an interesting kind of direction with that franchise to see what they do. Do they look at quarterback? Do they make some moves, trade around? I don't want to see about that.

But definitely the three teams we mentioned all have multiple picks in the first round. And that usually makes up for some interesting conversations. Yeah, four picks in New York of the top 10. Crazy. That's a different kind of draft. It's going to be a little wild. Four picks for New York fans and the drafts in Vegas. We'll see how that works out.

Yeah, no question. So, all right, that's going to do it for us today. Thank you guys for listening. Lance and I, we're going to be doing this every week. So every Wednesday, we've got some great guests lined up. We're going to take your questions. We're going to play around with a few ideas. Bottom line, this is going to be NFL draft talk all the time.

We want to really do it the way you guys want to hear it for the next four months. Robert Mays, Lindsay Jones. They're going to be back tomorrow to get you ready for the divisional round. If you're not already subscribed to the Athletics, please do so. I promise you will not be disappointed. My second mock draft is up now. A lot of senior bowl coverage coming. So for Lance Zerline, I'm Dane Bruegler.

We'll talk to you next week. This was the Athletic Football Show.