The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - 2022 NFL Draft: Brugler & Zierlein talk with Cincinnati QB Desmond Ridder + Reese's Senior Bowl wrap-up

Episode Date: February 9, 2022

Dane Brugler and NFL.com draft analyst Lance Zierlein wrap-up their Reese's Senior Bowl observations. They discuss which prospect from the weekend could be drafted the highest, who improved their stock and who fell. Plus, Cincinnati QB Desmond Ridder joins the show to talk about his experience in Mobile, what he learned as a four-year starter and much more.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome back. I'm Dane Bruegler, joined as always by NFL.com's Lance Zerline. This is the athletic football show, our midweek NFL draft edition. And on today's show, we're going to put a bow on the senior bowl, kind of share our final thoughts, what we learned, what NFL teams thought, the buzz as we left Mobile for a great week. And then we have a conversation with Cincinnati quarterback. Desmond Ritter, who will be one of the first five quarterbacks drafted in April. You know, could be a first-round pick.

Could be starting NFL games here in, you know, eight months or so. So plenty to cover with him. But first, Lance, let's, first, it was great to see one person, by the way. At first time in almost two years because it's pandemic. Was there plenty of ice waiting for you when you go back to Houston? No, actually, I got out. I got my plane instead of the 440 flight. I moved it up to like 1145 and then they ended up canceling the 440.

So the move was a smart move by me. I beat the weather cancellations for the flight. No, not really ice. We didn't have the rain come at the same time as the freezing weather. So we got out of that in a little better shape than we expected. So we're happy for that. No, that's good. This time of year, you just don't know what to expect. And Mobile, it was a rainy week, but for the most part, we had decent weather, temperature-wise.

That was nice. But in terms of the on-field stuff, here's what I'm going to do. We're going to do a segment where we just kind of fill in the blink. I've got a couple of questions here, and we'll get both of our reactions. So first up, the senior bowl player who was physically in Mobile, the senior bowl player, who will be drafted first in April is blank. So I'm coming at you right away with the big question. The first senior ball player who will be drafted in April will be who?

Jermaine Johnson. Okay. And that was my answer as well. So no, I wondered if maybe you would give a surprise and maybe go Malik Willis or one of these quarterbacks. Can he pick it? Because that's certainly a possibility when you just talk about. You know what?

I take it back. I actually, my first mock draft that is going to, although if you made me put, if you gave me a $10,000 chip and the NFL would actually allow me to place the wager, but of course I follow Roger Goodell's rules very stringently. But if I was allowed to do it, I'd probably say Jermaine Johnson. I do think he's going to be a riser. My first mock draft on NFL.com just came out as we are doing this podcast. and I have Kenny Pickett at 11 to Washington. I have Jermaine Johnson 13 to the Browns. So technically I have Pickett ahead of Jermaine Johnson,

but I will tell you I dropped Kenny Pickett a little bit after the senior ball, my own personal ratings. I just don't have the same level of confidence in him that I do in Jermaine Johnson, but you know how drafts are. I mean, and especially mock drafts. Early on, you start really locking in on needs and you take fewer, sometimes you'll take a few less chance, is you really stay needs heavy with how you're going to place these players.

And Washington needs a quarterback. And I was just like, you know what? I'll throw – I don't know if they're all in on Kenny Pickett, but I'll throw Kenny Pickett in here. I still think he is a talented quarterback. I think he had a good year. I have a feeling Jermaine Johnson, when it's all said and done, one end up getting drafted higher than Kenny Pickett.

And – and Malik Willis, for that matter, who is also at the game. Yeah. all makes sense. And I talked, I asked, what was this Friday, last Friday or something like that. I texted a scout and I said, hey, power rank the quarterbacks in terms of most impressive interviews. And he said, he replied very simply, pick it, gap, everybody else. And I don't think that means that necessarily the other quarterbacks were below average in their interviews by any means. He didn't expand on it. So, I can't say for sure. But I think it just points to Kenny Pickett. And one of the strengths that he offers is he's played a lot of football. You know, he's seen a lot in terms of what defenses are throwing at you. He knows where to go with the football.

And he's just a lot more comfortable during live action. And so if there's a starter week one in this quarterback class, you know, I think we've talked about before. It's Kenny Pickett. And for a lot of teams, that holds value more so than the high upside quarterback, which I think we would both agree. that would be Malik Willis, the guy that has a lot of traits that you would love to develop. But the question that becomes tough is where is the appropriate spot to draft him? You know, where is it where it's not too early, but it's still a safe spot where you're not mortgaging the future.

That's the question with Malik Willis because there's still questions about, and I'm kind of surprised a little bit about the hype. Because, I mean, he showed a big arm and he showed athleticism. we knew that already, you know? Yeah, the hype was out of control. This is the Friday of the senior bowl week practices is when the hyperbole train starts up. And I was talking to some scouts and actually a couple of agents who are like, it's weird that the hype train was so hot for Malik Willis because he was, you know, pretty good. I mean, I thought he had flashes.

I spotlight. I put him in the spotlight on day one because of a throw he made on the move. he scrambled right, he threw across his body to Bellinger, the tight end from San Diego State. And I was like, man, that is, that's a pro style throw. Then he had another play where he scrambled out of the way and ended up beating the pursuit to the edge. These are things that I'm going to see in an NFL game. That's why I pointed it out. But in general, I didn't think there were any quarterbacks that made me go, wow.

And yet the hype train on Malik Willis in some circles was, I thought a little, a little much based on what we saw. But this is going to happen throughout the process. You'll have some players who start to catch a lot of heat moving forward. You'll have others that get cooled down. I am curious, like, I'll tell you somebody who's, and this is kind of off script a little bit, but I was watching Logan Bruss, who I actually think is a pretty good player from Wisconsin. I was pretty impressed with him.

I just wrote him up. but I was watching him against in his reps against Aidan Hutchinson. I think we're all a little too down on Aidan Hutchinson. Aidan Hutchinson's a good player. He's strong. He gets rid of blocks quickly. And I mean, people aren't down, down on them. But I think there is, yeah, I mean, I think there's maybe just, it's become a little bit

too dismissive about a player who has that level of flexibility and power and strength and competitive nature. He's a good player. I don't think he's a Watt brother or a Bosa brother, but I do think he's a good football player who people have just kind of, for whatever reason, it's just kind of, I think because he was the hot name for the second half of the year that you kind of look for, well, who's another guy? Who's the other guy?

Tibido has fallen off in terms of the excitement level for him. Hutchinson, the excitement level has trailed off for him. but something I want to ask you about is the hand measurement for Kenny Pickett or the non-hand measurement. So this is once again gets to the NFL evaluators versus maybe draft Twitter or media draft or just fans. And I know a lot of people will kind of poo-poo the whole hand thing and Joe Burrough famously made fun of it and he's been just fine.

Kenny Pickett did have, I believe, 26 fumbles during his career. I think it was 9, 7, 7, and 3 over a four-year span. He had a lot of fumbles, over 20 fumbles. Yep. What are your thoughts? I know NFL teams do care about hand size for quarterbacks. It is a thing for them. It's real.

Sure. They care about arm size on tackles. You can make fun of it. You can downplay it, but it is a thing for a lot of teams. What are your, what did you think about Kenny Pickett refusing? to have his hands measured. Did it matter to you? Well, first, I think it's silly just because we know we have small hands. Like, it's not like, if I'm him, I'm getting the hand measurement out of the way and

it'll be talked about and then moving on. Now, we're still talking about it. And guess what? We're going to talk about it at the combine when he actually gets his hand measured. So instead of... You know what his hand measurement was? You've probably got it too. Yeah, eight and a quarter. Eight and a quarter this spring. Right. And so even if he's able to stretch out. a little more and he gets to eight and a half or eight and three quarters. You know what? He's still below the threshold. And again, he has small hands. There's no way around it. And so if he didn't,

he wouldn't be wearing the gloves. So get it out of the way. Get your hand measured and rip the band-aid off. And now instead of doing that, we're going to be not necessarily we, but just everybody in general will be talking about his hand size at the combine, assuming that he gets it measured there. and it'll remain a topic. And so it's just, it is something that is, it can be taken a little too far at times, but it is relevant. It is something that matters.

And it will matter more to some teams than others. Some teams will look at it and say, you know what, I don't, the fumbles, I actually, I've got down 38 career fumbles for him. So it's something that, it shows up. But I think as a passer, it didn't necessarily show up a ton

as a as a senior on a senior tape if you watch a senior tape you don't walk away and you know nothing about his measurements I don't think you walk away

saying oh wow he must have tiny hand or you know like it just it wasn't something that really affected his play as a passer now again because it is below the threshold

for several teams that will be a factor but I do think that it won't be as much a factor for some other teams the way to look at it so to put it in perspective, Dane, the average hand size, now this is about three years old,

but the average hand size for a starting quarterback is nine and five-eights. For this particular team, their threshold of what they don't really want to go over is nine and a quarter. I mean, under, they don't want to go under nine and a quarter. This is eight and a quarter. That's a pretty substantial difference. So I do think. Joe Burrow was nine on the dot. Yeah, he was nine.

he was close. But nine and eight, I mean, that's a big, big difference. And so if he would have done this now, you're right. This, it would have become a narrative and a talking point right now, would have become a conversation right now. But then by the combine, it would have been a follow-up point that people would have commented on going into the quarterback day. Now it's going to become the primary talking point for some of the broadcast.

So just something to ask about because I was surprised he didn't measure. I mean, he's going to have to at some point. It's already happened last spring. So I was just a little surprised. Yeah, the double-jointed thing. Like, get out of here. Come on. All right.

Next question. The best meal you had in Mobile was blank. Mm. I actually, it was at Dumbwaiter. I take it back. No, I take it back. It was dumb waiter was really, really good. It was actually Felix Fish Camp.

That's how I was going to go with too. had beefsteak, which is an off-the-it-it-it's an off-the-menu item. It's a fillet with a crab cake on top, a fried green tomato, and then crab meat over the top of that, like an Oscar sauce. It's Dusty Stanfield is the one who hit me to that one. That's the off-the-mue item, the whole table, boom. As soon as he ordered it and talked about what it was, the whole table, bang, across the board. That sounds good.

I had a filet with a fish filet with crab stuffed in. inside and had to go with the crab soup. They have good mac and cheese as well. So that was Same place? Yeah, Felix's gets my vote as well. That was the best meal I had a week. So we're a consensus there. All right. Next question. The player who theoretically moved up the most in your mind, based on what you thought coming in, or based on how you think or know, how teams viewed them, who do you think moved up the most from before Senior Bowl week, until now. I would say a couple of guys.

I think Cole Strange, the Tennessee Chattanooga Center really, I didn't talk to an evaluator who didn't have something positive to say about him. He battled, man. He really did. He, you know, he wears no gloves. He's got a single bar face mask. You know, in full disclosure, my dad is working with him on some technique stuff and just he's, he worked with him for.

a little bit. And he just said he's a different kind of guy. He's a throwback type of player. But I was I was really impressed with how strong he played. Now, he's got great lean mass. Like he's a, he's a powerful strong guy, but it's kind of a, it's not a thick frame. It's not a thick bone frame. And so when he was able to hole up at the point of attack against some much bigger players who were lined up over him, I was, I was pretty impressed. But I think Devante Wyatt for me and Kingsley, in a Gabare who we talked about on the last podcast. But Devante Wyatt, man, I liked him on tape. I liked him fine.

But you know, you get overwhelmed by how many players Georgia has. And I thought, and I wrote him up last year because I thought he was coming out. This year I gave him a higher grade. But really, I liked him. But after watching him throughout the week, he was just on a different level from the other guys as an interior player. They're just so much quicker. Hands and feet are completely synced together. He knows how to get to an edge quickly.

He knows how to exploit it and get inside the gap and be disruptive. And I just, I had to end up putting him in the first round of my mock draft because he is going to be a disruptive one gaping three technique. And those players still have a lot of value. No doubt. And it wasn't just linear quickness. It was agility. It was, you know, just he showed all the different ways that he can beat blogging. he has a bull rush to him so he can generate power at the point of attack i i think that

it is a legitimate question to ask who will be the first georgia defense tackle drafted i think that is a fair and they're obviously two different very different styles of player he's a two-way player he's a three-down player yeah yeah yeah and that's not something you can say about jordan davis so can jordan davis be a pocket pusher i feel like he can can be a guy that pushes pocket or really would help with a scheme. I know it's highly unlikely. I mean, everyone goes to sub-packages, but, you know, he's going to require two blockers at all times, all the time.

So if you know that going in and you utilize him in that regard, I think it really opens up a lot of blitz packages as well and some things that you can do to scheme to maybe have Jordan Davis aligned as a one technique on one side, and on the other side you're giving them an overload look from a blitz standpoint. How are you going to handle your protection then? I mean, are you sliding in a direction? Are you going to slide to the overload, which more than likely you're going to do? What happens to the A gap on the other side of Jordan Davis?

I think he creates a conundrum for offensive coordinators and run blocking coordinators in general and offensive line coaches in general because he just has such rare size, power, and relative athleticism. And what you want to see, as you know, Dana, a lot of times guys are much more athletic, 20, 21, 22, they get a little bit bigger.

The joints start to, you know, it takes a toll on the joints, and then guys can get a little heavy-legged fairly quickly in the league. I want to see how long Jordan Davis can remain, you know, a relatively athletic really big dude. Well, and I think my biggest question there with Davis is, can he do it with more snaps?

I mean, he averaged 22 snaps per game this past season for Georgia, which was a pretty big decline from what we saw on his junior tape. And I think that was the biggest difference is he was able to stay fresh. And so if you ask him to play more snaps, is he still going to be able to give you that high level of play? And that's why I worry that he is strictly going to be a two-down player or, you know, a guy that, and he's going to be a really good one, you know, a really, really dominant run defender.

But if you ask him to play more snaps, is that going to take away from his effectiveness? And you just get kind of a guy that's good, but not what you're expecting out of, if you draft him in the top 20, top 25. So he remains a little bit of a polarizing player. It won't be for everybody,

but I still think he's going to go somewhere top 25. For my answer, I'm going Travis Jones, Yukon, defense tackle, nose tackle. Coming in, I thought he was kind of in the third round mix, and now I would, he has a good chance to go top 40, top 50, somewhere in there. I think that, you know, nose tackles that are that big and that strong just are, they're a rarity. And he's the guy, if you don't feel comfortable taking Jordan Davis in the first round, Travis Jones is the guy that. you target in the second round. And the Jets coaching staff really worked with him a lot on his move-to-move transitions and, you know, just the different ways that he can unlock all of his skills, but it's there. And so he needs some, you know, continued coaching. I mean, you have to

factor in. This guy had 21 months between games because Yukon canceled there the 2020 season. So he had a 21-month layoff from game to game. And, you know, there's a lot of, you know, untapped potential there, I think, with Travis Jones. And he's a pretty good player right now. So that would be my answer. Common theme, defensive line, pretty much dominate. And we even mentioned Perry on Winfrey, who, you know, the game itself, the senior ball game doesn't matter as much as the practices. But credit to Perry and Winfrey, credit to the guy who tore it up during the week of practice and then in the game with senior bowl MVP with, what, three tackles for loss, two sacks. So, you know,

even though the game doesn't matter as much from an evaluation purposes as the practices, give credit to Winfrey for showing up and continuing that energy all week. I thought there was a few. You make a good point. Winfrey's one, Inigbari, Jones, you're 100% right on him. There were quite a few defensive linemen, I thought, who really helped themselves without question. Flip side of that is offensive line made me re-evalued. evaluate some of these guys and just take a look at my own grades to see, you know, this is,

and I need to get through all the practice tape again, but I really am interested to see how Combine works out for some of these guys too, because the offensive, I thought the tackles, frankly, I thought Penning and Raymond, I was hoping that they would really stand out, but there wasn't a lot of standout offensive linemen, I didn't think. Well, and that kind of goes with my last question here. The biggest disappointment for you based off of practice in the game was blank. And I think what you just said with offensive linemen, especially the offensive tackles, I think that's... The position, yeah.

Yeah. And I agree. You know, it's tough for offensive linemen in that type of setting where you're playing defense and there's... It's just not a typical game setting. For my answer, I'm going with tight ends. You know, I thought the tight end group is such a deep group this year. But I don't know. I just wasn't blown away with the tight ends that we had here at Mobile for the week.

Trey McBride's a good player, but I don't know. I just struggle with him as a top 40 type of guy. I just don't see him as that caliber of player. I think Jeremy Rucker's a good player, but unfortunately he didn't practice the third day and he couldn't play in the game. You know, guys like Cole Turner didn't really, you know, do that much for me. So the tight ends as a whole, I was kind of let down a little bit by. Yeah, it's a deep group, as you mentioned.

And sometimes at Senior Bowl, you just don't get a great feel for a position group. They just don't pop. I still think it's a pretty deep group. But, Tray McBride, watching how small he felt next to some of the other tied ends, I thought the kid from UCLA helped himself, played fast, played explosive. Yeah, I kind of liked him. I ended up moving him up a little bit from where I originally had him graded. You know a guy who didn't make the senior bowl that I'm a big fan of as John Fitzpatrick.

But he's basically going to be a wide tight end, although I thought he's a better athlete on tape when given a chance. But you get lost in the Georgia tight end shuffle a little bit, but he's a really good blocker on tape. And sometime I wonder, you know, how hard it is for Jim Nagy to want to want to, to want to take a Y tight in and inline tight in because they're not going to be as sexy but there is run blocking him and Jim is a pro so he clearly understands the dual threat you know the dual nature of the position at least you hope to have a dual nature of the position but it's also you know it's also a passing league and I'm sure you know I'm sure there there is it's a little easier to default to a guy who's caught a lot of passes and has been very productive as opposed to a guy

who helped to open up the running game against Auburn, for example, which Fitzpatrick did. But I've been a big Fitzpatrick guy for a while, and I was kind of hoping he would make it to the senior bowl. But it's a – Well, he was a junior, though. So I don't know if he was eligible or not. Was he a true junior or a fourth-year junior? Yeah. I don't know if he was graduating.

I think they were looking at him at one point because I think he played in the East West game. Oh, did he? Okay. Yeah, I think he may have been in one of those other games. So he's just kind of, I know he's not Senior Bowl, but he's a guy that people need to get to know because blocking still matters to a lot of teams, especially the teams like the San Francisco 49ers. And now I would assume the Miami Dolphins with Mike McDaniel going over there.

You like guys who can block who can also get out in patterns. It's just easier to, it makes you harder to defend. It makes you harder as an offense to, it makes, it makes it much harder to put specialized personnel groupings if you can block. That's why teams prefer, you know, pass catching tight ends that can block a little bit because you don't have to dumb down your offensive scheme. You can go out there with two tight ends, three tight ends, three tight ends for Kyle Shanahan is a passing personnel grouping.

It doesn't look like it, but I promise you he's getting ready to exploit you. Yeah, no, that's a good point. And that's why a player like Cole Turner, you know, I kind of struggled with because I just don't, you know, seeing how lean he is, you know, he can give you targets down the scene. I mean, I really like him at the catch point. His catch radius is pretty impressive. But, you know, he's a one-dimensional tight end. And that's, that could be tough for a lot of times. So let me ask you a question.

What's the difference then between Jordan's, we just talked about Jordan Smith and a guy like you just mentioned Cole Turner? Right. They're both one dimensional. You can only use them on certain downs. Whenever you have players like that, those are the guys, I think, who end up, they become, they're almost specialists. I don't want to say they're luxury items, but if you don't block well enough that you can play on the early downs or if you can't rush the passer at all, it does have an impact on the way teams view your ability to have an impact on the game. Well, it all comes down to impact potential. You know, what is your impact potential? And that's a different, the answer to that is different for every team. So, you know, a guy like Jordan Davis, who is a big time run defender and a guy that is going to two gap for you and make an impact, if that's what your defense sorely needs, then his impact potential is going to be a little bit higher than maybe a defense that's, you know, wants to be more mobile and, you know, get more pass rush from the interior, especially on early downs. And so, you know, it's just, it's, I think it's different from the team to team. It depends on what the impact potential is for, I mean, you mentioned Kyle Shanahan and his offense and how obviously they use tight ends compared to a different style of offense. So, you know, impact potential is different from team to team when you look schematically and you look at what these prospects do and the strengths of their games.

And division matters too. So when you put together your mock draft, take a look at who's inside the division because if you, if you're, you. You've got, you know, if you want to put a center somewhere, you can't put Tyler Lindenbaum on a team where there's a bunch of three, four heavy nose tackles who are just, you know, going to be right there over the top of them. It's just, it's not something teams typically do. So you have to look at if you've got to run heavy, if you've got a team that really runs the ball well, like the Tennessee Titans, for example.

And you're Jacksonville or the Texans or, you know, whoever, They might really view Jordan Davis, for example, who is a run plugger. He is a stump grinder. All of a sudden, their value is, hey, we've got to face, you know, Derek Henry. Let's throw this guy in the middle because we see them twice a year and we see Jonathan Taylor twice a year. All of a sudden, Jordan Davis has substantially more value against a team like the, in a division like the AFC South where you've got the Colts offensive line and you've got the. Tennessee Titans running game, it matters. So always think of that also when you're putting a mock draft together.

No question. All right. So I think that's a good way to kind of end the senior bowl. Another good year, you know, credited Jim Nagy and his staff for what they've done the last like four years now. Just really, really outstanding. I think it gets better every year, which is great news for us as, you know, on the outside looking in as evaluators, but also for, you know, fans and.

just people that like football. So for more senior bowl coverage for Lance's first mock draft, go to NFL.com. You can read my stuff over at The Athletic. I've got my updated Top 100 coming out early next week, probably Tuesday, so look for that. But for now, let's get to our conversation with Cincinnati quarterback, Desmond Ritter. Awesome to bring in Desmond Ritter,

former quarterback at Cincinnati, and one of the top quarterbacks in this draft, fresh off a productive week at the Senior Bowl. First off, former quarterback at Cincinnati, that has to sound a little strange, right? How is it putting that Bearcats helmet on one final time at the Senior Bowl? Yeah, no, it definitely feels strange. You know, the amount of time I was there,

which was, you know, four and a half, five years. It was, you know, about a quarter of my life at that point. So, you know, a lot of, met a lot of good friends, you know, a lot of good connections there that will last a lifetime. But, you know, it was really just a blessing just to be able to go back out there and represent, you know, not only the University of Cincinnati, but, you know, almost the city of Clifton one last time for all my fellow Bearcats. Yeah, I thought you had a good week down there. And I really appreciated how I thought you got better as the week went on, which is what you want to see.

And something I think that a lot of fans are interested in, take me through a typical day in Mobile. You know, from when you wake up to you go to bed, all the steps in between. what was a typical day like for you at the senior bowl? Yeah, you know, it was definitely something that you can't really prepare for, you know, going out there through combine training and everything. But, you know, when we got out there, we started with, you know, physicals and interviews and did a little, a slight run, conditioning, came back, had some meetings. But that was the first day, but then a typical day would look like, you know, you wake up,

breakfast is at six. Then you have, you know, just a brief meeting right there before. then you'd get your ankles taped. Then you'd have lunch around, an early lunch around 9.30. And then we'd leave for the practice facility around 10.15. We'd get there and practice started at 11.30 their time. And we'd get done about 1.30, 2 o'clock,

head back to the hotel slash convention center, grab a quick snack and then go straight to, you know, film meetings from watching the practice that we just had. And then those would go from about three to about five. five o'clock and then right at five o'clock we'd have dinner and then at seven o'clock from seven to twelve in the morning you know we'd have formal interviews with you know 16 teams and we did that twice so you know those those four-hour slot at interview times were definitely lengthy and you know it took a lot out of us this is just a warm-up desmond for the combine wait until you get

there and you see what a grind that is structure it's interesting you just mentioned structure because I think you're built for structure. I don't think the senior bowl is probably too much. I don't think the combine is going to be too much. You're a four-year starter and a four-year winner at Cincinnati. Kenny Pickett's another guy who's a four-year starter. You guys have an advantage, I think, because you've been through that process. Can you talk for a second about the advantages that you found in terms of being able to be in the same system

and play with the guys and have this much experience under your belt on the collegiate levels, quarterback? Yeah, I think you just, you know, kind of hit the nail on the head right there and has experience. And that's with learning a system, learning your offense, you know, learning the players around you, you know, it really started to click around year three and obviously last year, year four, where, you know, everything that I knew on the offense was, you know, T. And, and, you know, almost everyone around me knew it as well as I did too. So, you know, being around the same system around the same guys, the same coaches for four to five years. It definitely makes things run a lot smoother. It makes, you know, just the whole program, you know, it makes it seem like,

you know, we're out there winning and everything is easy. And, you know, we've had four great seasons put in a row. You know, that's just what the outsider see. And, you know, from the inside, it's all the hard work that we've put in, all the time that we've spent, you know, going over those meetings, going over those installs, going over footwork, you know, that was just able to show on Saturdays. Yeah, I think that's something that really stood out to me was watching your tape. And I went back and I watched 19 and I watched 20 and then 21. And you could see the growth. You could see your comfort level inside the offense. Like I never had a feeling you didn't know where you wanted to go with the football. There was always, and I don't know, was that your familiarity with the offense or was it your familiarity with the defense and what defenses were trying to do with you? Yeah, so that was a little bit of both. You know, obviously my true freshman year, I ran scout team most of the time. So that was really just getting the speed of the game.

And obviously, you know, understanding, you know, somewhat of our offense. And then Red Shirt freshman year, obviously, is coming in as a starter. You know, I had to know the whole offense. I wouldn't say down to a T, but, you know, I knew a grasp of it enough to go out there and play fast and play the type of game I wanted. And then, like, Red Shirt sophomore year was okay, let's really hone in on the what and the wise of the offense and, you know, why we want to do things. things against certain defenses.

And then Red Surr Junior year is okay, now you got the offense down. You know, there's nothing new, nothing's changing, maybe a little wrinkles here and there. But it was really okay. Let's start to break down the defense. Let's start to understand the defense and, you know, understand why they do things against what we do. And then this past year was kind of putting everything together, you know, really

seeing the offense, really seeing the defense. And like I said, you know, understanding, you know, why we want to run certain players against a certain defense and why we don't. And going back to the Senior Bowl, you know, you had a chance to work side by side with some of these other quarterbacks in the draft. And was it ever like, you know, you felt pressure like, oh, that was a great throw from Pickett. I need to come back and do the same. Was it hard not to compare yourself to the other quarterbacks that were there? No.

Like I said, out there, we knew that, you know, it's a competition, even though we're on the same team. We're all competing for that number one spot. So, you know, when we're on the field, it's always competition. but it's a friendly competition, and that's the best type of competition because at the end of the day, you know, all three of us are on our team, Carson, Kenny, and myself, we were going to get better from it. So, you know, it wasn't like anyone had to match a certain throw or do something better than anyone else, you know, rather than kind of, you know, obviously congratulating everyone on, you know, the throws that they made and then coming back and, you know, making a good throw, if not a better throw. I hear nothing but, you know, great things about Coach Fickle and the way he runs that program.

but obviously getting some NFL coaching had to have been just a little bit different. What was that like being coached by the Jets staff and just their instruction? You know, what was the point of emphasis? What was that week like for you getting coached by NFL coaches? Yeah, it was great. Obviously, kind of see the way that they break it down a little more, maybe in depth. You know, not too much in depth. But, you know, other than that, it was almost the same type relationship.

that as far as, you know, with my quarterback coach, Coach Rob for the Jets, and then, you know, kind of the relationship that Coach Gino at Cincinnati and I had, where it was free, open, you know, willing to talk, willing to meet, you know, after hours, you know, whenever we're not having meetings and just, you know, going out there on the field and whenever questions need to be asked, answering questions, you know, never expecting too much of you, but expecting you to do, you know, what your job is and to know your job. But, you know, obviously there's going to be mistakes, there's going to be bumps, there's going to be wrinkles in the road.

and they know that. So, you know, when those did come, they were there and provided support for all of us, you know, no matter what we were going through. And, you know, that's kind of the same. How was it Cincinnati? So, you know, there really wasn't much of a difference. I'm not saying, you know, Cincinnati, I mean, Cincinnati obviously has great coaches. I'm not saying that they're not to the NFL level or anything,

but there really wasn't a difference between the two. Yeah, it's obviously a different game to the college and pro game. You know, you talked about a lot of the mental stuff and the preparation and the time that you put in that you put in, which clearly shows up on tape. Because like I said before, you know where you want to get with the football. You know how to get it there. I'm curious about the physical stuff. When I wrote you up, I wrote machine-like mechanics and footwork. And that's one thing that really impressed me is the repeatable process.

Where did that come from? Where does that come from in terms of how you developed it, when you developed it, your emphasis on it. because you have a very repeatable process, and that includes throwing on platform way more than off platform, which a lot of college quarterbacks like to default to. Yeah, I know. I think it was, you know, going into my redshirt junior year. So after my redshirt sophomore year, you know,

Coach Gino and I kind of sat down and broke the film down, and, you know, whether it was the run game or the past game, you know, he was, you know, wanted to make sure that everything looked the same and everything that we do. So if we were handing the ball off, we were handed the ball off the same way. If we were running the RPO, we were running the RPO the same way. If we were to take a three-step drop, five-step drop, no matter what it was,

that everything we did, you know, was the exact same. And I think that just comes from repetition and making sure that everything done is done to perfection. That's, you know, as a person, that's who I strive to be as a perfectionist. So I'll really say that, you know, I started working on that about right after the red shirt sophomore year season of just, you know, matching up everything to not make anything look different and not get anything out of routine. If you strive to be a perfectionist, then you're very self-aware. You have to be to be a perfectionist.

Give me an example of things that you feel like you need to, or areas of improvement that you need to work on or that you're currently working on since you are someone who self-studies and you want to be a perfectionist. Yeah, obviously, you know, if you talk about, excuse me, being a perfectionist, and, you know, the number one way you can chart that is, you know,

accuracy and completion percentage. And I think that's where, you know, where I'm working and striving every day to get better at. And, you know, even though we just talked about it, but it starts with the feet. As a quarterback, you know, it doesn't start with, you know, your arm motion and your upper body. It all starts from the ground.

So making sure that I'm really just stable there. You know, out here working with Jordan Palmer and Mike White, they're doing a great job of making sure that, you know, like we just talked about, we're staying consistent day in and day out. or being able to build days upon days. So, you know, like we kind of said, just be able to build a pattern and do the same thing over and over again

without having to think about it. And along those lines, something that, you know, I think I really appreciated about your game was how you would heat up in games, you know, especially the second half. I'm thinking about that Notre Dame tape, especially, you know,

you really started to lock in that second half. There's a big reason why you guys won that game. So is that a case of you, you know, settling in to a game where, you know, you start off maybe a little up and down, but then you just really settle in as the game goes on, get comfortable? Yeah, I definitely think so. Maybe after a couple hits, you know, after me running the ball a couple of times, you know, I kind of get used to the game, get a few throws in.

But yeah, it's definitely just the flow of the game and also momentum, you know, and, you know, just having great players around me, making great plays. It makes it a lot easier. Well, I can't talk about Cincinnati without talking about some of your teammates too, because Cincinnati's going to be well represented in the draft this year. And even on defense. It was like going up against that defense every day in practice, especially that's secondary with Gardner and Bryant and Cook.

It's just a really, really good group of players. If you could give me just a quick Skyny report on those guys. Yeah, so one thing, excuse me, that we think, talked about, you know, almost throughout my entire career was, you know, iron sharpens iron. It's the best of the best, going against the best of the best. So, you know, every day it was a battle. You would look out and you would see Alec Pierce and Amad Gardner line up from each other and take each other's hand because they knew every rep that they went against each other is going to be a competition. It was going to be a battle to see who won that day, who was better.

And then you look across the other side, you know Kobe's got his lockdown island. And they cook. Cook is just, you know, going through hitting everything that moves and attacking the ball when it's in the air. So, you know, it really just made me better, made all the receivers better and made the team better as a whole. Because, you know, when we went out there on Saturdays, you know, we weren't seeing the, you know, the type of competition that we saw day in and day out, whether that was at practice, whether it was during spring ball or at camp. So just being able to go against those guys, you know, grateful to have them on my team and have them on my side to be there for me and my team. And like I said, you know, it just made us better

and made everyone better. I was really impressed with me, all three of those guys, but Cook was an eye opener for me, watching him. And I know his story, he came from what Howard, I believe, watching his, I mean, he's got covered talent. Like you said, he'll hit anything that moves. He's physical. I mean, he plays an NFL brand of football already at safety.

He can play multiple safety spots. I am curious, though, because so Dane and I watch a lot of tape. We watch a lot of prospects, right, a lot of them up. It's almost criminal what happens to wide receivers on the collegiate level, the way they allow holding and grabbing. It's almost comical because you realize, wait a minute, you cannot get away with that in the NFL level. How frustrating is that to see it and to experience it with a teammate like Alec Pierce and know that it works both ways. Your guys are going to be able to do the same thing, but it's going to throw off timing and rhythm sometime. How tough is that for you as a quarterback to keep your head down and play through some of the,

some of the no calls that you have to deal with out on the flanks. Yeah, I mean, you know, as a quarterback, if we're really worried about, you know, what's going on at the wide receiver and quarterback position as far from a referee standpoint, then, you know, we're kind of worried about the wrong things out there on the field. So, you know, I trusted in Alec. I trusted in Tyler Scott, Michael Young, Trey Tucker, those guys to go out and make plays for me every single week. So, you know, when those no calls happen, you know, it might have been a flare of the arms

or whatever it may be. But then, you know, it's next play. And, you know, I'm going to come right back to them. It didn't matter that, you know, you might have just got a no holding call or whatever it may be. You know, I trust those guys to go get the ball and the ball's in the air. And they trust me to put it in the right spot. The game against Georgia that you guys had, you go in with a game plan and then you get behind. Talk about for you in terms of – because you guys did have some adversity in the middle of the year.

I mean, you had a bull's eye on your back. You're catching a lot of teams best efforts. What was that like to deal with that adversity in that game, let's say, at halftime? Yeah. Actually, I think I said, George, I meant Alabama. Sorry, the Alabama game. Yeah. I mean, you know, at that time, you know, we were just talking about, you know, let's weather the storm.

You know, make sure that it doesn't get out of hand and let's do our best, you know, put as many points as we can on the board. You know, there were some batted balls in there. And I think the really biggest thing for us was. momentum. We could never get momentum going other than that first drive. After that first drive, I think we had a couple three and outs. And then, you know, like I said, we just couldn't get anything going. So it was really, you know, we just had to pick up our tempo, pick up our pace and, you know, leave it out on the line. And we knew we were going against, you know, so-called the goal and standard of college football. And, you know, everyone on that team is going to play hard and play their best.

So, I mean, when we went in the locker room at halftime, it was really just, you know, if we're going to go out here and win it, you know, we got to play our team. best in which we didn't do in the first half. And, you know, it was sad to say, but we couldn't get done in the second half as well. Well, you know, I think it was a 43 and 6, I think was the final win-loss record with you as a starter. So I know it didn't end the way you wanted, but I think that's, no other quarterback in this class has your resume. So Desmond, we really appreciate you joining us today, taking some time. Good luck with your combine prep and then throughout the rest the process and then draft weekend.

Yes, sir. Thank you for having me. All right, that'll do it for us this week. Make sure you're locked onto the Athletic Football Show feed. Robert Mase is bringing all kinds of good stuff from L.A. and the Super Bowl. Please rate, review, subscribe to the Athletic. My top 100 drops next week, so a great time to have it. We'll talk to you next week.

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