The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - 2024 NFL Draft Day Two Recap: All of the trades, none of the quarterbacks

Episode Date: April 27, 2024

Day two of the 2024 NFL Draft came complete with all the trades we thought we might be getting on day one. It also saw a complete absence of quarterbacks, a few positional runs, and even one school run. Robert Mays, Nate Tice and Dane Brugler break it all down on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Watch the day two livestreamFollow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome back to the athletics coverage of the 2024 NFL draft. I'm Robert Mays. We are here to recap day two, all of the second and third round action, here to help me do that. First off, it is our draft expert here at the athletic. Dame Brugler, Dane, how you feeling, buddy? 100 picks in.

We've got 157 more to go. But for now, reflecting on these first 100 picks, plenty of surprises, plenty of, hmm, okay, like I can see that. You guys are too nice. Connecting the line. I think you just crush more people in this process. Well, I just got done saying I didn't think we'd see

Devandre Sweat's name called tonight. That was a surprise. Titans' new regime, they still don't change. Yeah, that's something. We can dig into that. Yeah, that's interesting. But, you know, Cardinals, think what, seven picks today? I mean, that's, they, they,

drafted a lot of players. Not tonight, but total seven players, I believe. Seven players, five tonight for the Carlos. And how many offense? Five? Yeah, and all of one style type of play that they're going after, which is, I think, awesome. Also joining us tonight, my good friend,

Nate Tice. And how you doing, buddy? I can wait. I heard Cardinals, I jumped in. I'm sitting here and says we're continuing after we just, you know, blitzed through round two, round three. We've been here for five and a half hours. Yes. Yes. I've had to catch myself a few times, We're on the loopy meter right now.

But day two, and we said before the show, day two is so much fun. And it's one of those like, yeah, yeah, this is fun. And as it gets going, and you're like, oh, that guy went there and you're seeing the matches and everything. It's so exciting. So especially this day two and the prospects that were out there, there are some really cool fits that we got to. Let's get to that. Let's start, which is your favorite individual pick from this day, from day two day and just removed from the overall hall of team hat, but just isolated. Maybe you like that and maybe not something up.

else? There were quite a few. I mean, I think Ladd-McConkie to the Chargers, giving Justin Herbert that quarterback-friendly target makes a ton of sense. McConkey's a guy that will get open. He's going to make defenses, defend you a certain way. So that's certainly really all the Chargers, what they did, and then Junior Colson in the third round. We talked about that maybe being a fit in the second round. they get him in the third. And now it's, tomorrow will be on Harbaugh watch to see how many more Michigan Wolverines he drafts. But he gets Colson, which kind of, if day two, if he were to, maybe Blake Corman was the favorite, who was going to come away with today with former players, but Colson was a close second.

And we were wondering if that was going to be at the top of the second round. Instead, they're able to wait until the third round against Junior Colson. We mentioned this. The Joel pick feels like a declaration of intent. This is who we're going to be. And so if that's a transition that you're kind of signaling on offense, it feels like the junior Colson pick indicative of that same sort of movement on defense. This is who we want to be on this side of the ball,

is they really retool almost that entire roster. I was going to say it's the rare example where the rookie is going to know the defense better than anyone else. Yeah, and that's going to be nice, though. It's being a tone setter. Speaking of who we want to be, like, that's the other name that came to mind, Steelers and Zach Frazier. Yeah. Okay, Thursday night you draft Troy Fauton.

who can play tackle, could play guard, can play wherever you want. And then here you don't have to trade up. Zach Frazier falls in your lap. And it's like, okay, he's the perfect stealer. And you have a glaring need at center. It just makes too much sense. It's a perfect fit. One of my other questions is going to be a favorite haul.

I think the Steelers might be my answer to that question. Because you look at what they did with Fatano yesterday. You get Zach Frazier in the second round, remaking their offensive line on the fly. Both picks make absolute sense. Even getting Roman Wilson in the third round, his skill set combined with the things they already have. Okay, I can totally see that.

And Peyton Wilson being a flyer where they took him at 98 with that skill set and what he's put on tape, even with some of the concerns, you pair him with the Patrick Queen. You drop that element into your defense. I understand what the Steelers were trying to do over the last two days. I was almost waiting for him to drop one more running back in there. We got Warren. Yeah, yeah. We don't care.

We don't know. We're just going to load this thing up and just fully declare there. We already hinted at it because I couldn't. wait to talk about it was I like what the Cardinals were doing yeah I really do I just similar thing right just the deck we're gonna be a physical on offense we're gonna have that element to who we are after they draft you know what we think is the premier skill position guys like I literally called Maserati Marv yeah so Maserati Marv okay now we need the engine now we need you know the steering wheel we need all these types of things complementary pieces that's it it's not just

okay we got the speed guy let's get more speed let's go crank it to the max it's like they did the flashy pick which is also I think the sound pick because he's the best player, but then also now they're doing the actual team building, the depth pieces, the actual starters that fill out their other spots. You had said before the show, the goal is try and find four starters. That's the goal. Even two is like, okay, three, it was like, okay, we're really cooking. This is the bites at the apple. They're trying to find like these starters, these contributors that can play, not 10 snaps, not 20 snaps, 30, 40, 50 snaps a game. Let's get to you overall team halls that you liked so far, Dan. If you're looking at what's

happened over the last two days and the plans from some of these teams, who comes to mind for you. Yeah, I think the Steelers probably answer for all three of us, but I also love what the Cowboys did. Tyler Geithen Thursday night and then come back tonight and you get Marshawn Neeland, one of my favorite players in this draft. To your point, edge

a sneaky need. I think we were so focused on running back and lineback or offensive line but to get Marshawn Neelan there at that point, love that fit, and then come back with that extra third round pick that they added from trading back in the first round to

get a Cooper Beebe. So instead of sticking at 24 and getting Tyler Guyton, you're able to trade back and get Tyler Guyton and Cooper Beebe. That's Martin drafting. And is he going to start at center? We're going to see him, you know, how is that going to fit? But clearly with Tyler Smith at left guard, Zach Martin at right guard, you drafted Cooper Beebe to be a center, even though you don't have tape on him. But his profile suggests he can do it. He practiced at center. So I mean, Louieffau, the linebacker they draft, fine. To me, it was more a fifth round pick. But the first three picks, especially for what the Cowboys did, love that haul.

Yeah, I mean, we talked about this. They probably needed to get two offensive line starters from this draft. They lose Tyler Biotic, Free Agency, they lose Tyrone-Frey Agency. You don't want to move Tyler Smith to tackle based on how well he played last year. How are you going to figure this out? They figured it out. And this team, for all the frustration I have about the lack of not proactive they are with contracts and how they do their homework,

night before the test so often when it comes to the financial stuff, it becomes frustrating. But what they've, and that's ownership, right? Like that's that side of it when you're who gets the money. The draft for the most part is Will McLeigh's baby. And he rushes it every year. Every single year. And that's why it becomes so frustrating because you have this one side where they're just humming like a machine. And then it's hamstrung by the other side of the operation. And that's why it drives me so crazy when I think about this team. It's, the Cowboys fans are always Like, we don't sign outside free agents. Like, you don't have to mostly.

Like, you guys do. You drafted so well. And it's not just because they're protecting the pick, which is always like the fallacies some teams have. Or it's like, well, we drafted the guy in third round. We can't cut him now. We can't bench them now. These guys are all good players that should be played. Jerry relies on Will McLeigh and his staff.

Maybe a little too much you could argue at times. But I'll say this. There's a reason Will McLeigh turns down GM interviews elsewhere. He is well compensated for everyone. Jerry is, he's no dummy. He understands the value of Will McLeigh and that staff. And yeah, it makes all the sense in the world. How about you, Nate, favorite hall?

When you're looking back on, which group of players did you like from a certain team? The team that juiced up, the teams that juiced up their DBs, that's the Eagles and the Lions. They had a hole on their roster where there's other stronger parts. And rather than just, you know, one guy to, you know, a band-aid on a bullet hole, they're like, no, no, no, we're loading this thing up. We're putting a lot of patchwork on it. So the lion's getting there, you know, pick a scrappy corner, pick a feisty corner, and then the Eagles getting two guys that we both consider kind of premium players. Like, I mean, high-end players, one fell at them.

And then the other one, Cooper DeGine, going there at 40, moving on up just slightly for him. And that's great. This guy, where does he start? Doesn't matter if Vic Fangio is going to find a role for him. They have a succession plan for the corners they already have. Yeah, I really, yeah, like those kind of collection of picks to, again, and throw bodies at the problem, but it's not just bodies. These are guys that, I think, have chance to be impact players.

The other team I would mention, the first two picks, not the guard depth they use in the third round, but the Colts getting a lot to and Ed and I, Mitchell, in the first two rounds. I just understand it. I understand the swings. I understand how it fits with the overall team-building plant. They have, you know, two positions like we mentioned,

that maybe aren't the most glaring needs, but they need upgrades. They need an uptick. This idea of this Colts roster, Obviously, I remember talking to somebody there at the Combine. I was like, all right, promising. Right, promising year one. How do you take this to the next level?

The answer is, obviously, we get Anthony Richardson back. That's how we get lifted. But where else are you going to make these incremental improvements? So you take this team that seems like since Chris Bauer got there has been a B plus roster consistently. How do you raise that just a little bit? And I think Latu and Mitchell, those are both picks that are in pursuit of that exact idea. Yeah. If we laughed ourselves, they like,

always all these players that we like like these b players you know b maybe b plus players maybe b minus players they have character actors and now they're getting the star power that they hope to get they're getting the guy that can finish the sacks outside just getting the pressures and lot too they're getting the guys that can finish drives and ad mitchell not the guy that just gets a bunch of yards like that's what michael pitman does he eats a bunch of yards but then it's like get us over the top no you can't make that one play that's where you bring in the the real star power it's maybe you know whatever a d mitchell is is. And again, everyone's all over the place and there's quotes about all the stuff now. But it's just like he has that high, high, high, high, high end upside that you want to be chasing.

I would throw the commanders in there as well. I know the team that had a lot of draft picks. And I think they didn't. Nice job maximizing them. Obviously, Jaden Daniels, you get the quarterback at two, but then you come back and you get a Johnny Newton at, well, 36, I believe. Yeah, 36. Right. And so, like you saying, Mikey Stenry. Yeah. Who's one of the better, just pure football players in this draft, even if he is a nickel only. Ben Sinait, maybe a little earlier than we thought. But again, all the tight-end rankings are going to differ from team to team. He's a versatile H-back who is going to help the quarterback from day one.

So like that pick. Brandon Coleman, who tackle, guard, wherever he fits, I think he's going to provide immediate depth. We will see him on the field this year. And then who was our last pick? Luke McCaffrey. Yeah, there you go. So you add another receiver. to the mix, a guy that has played good football, but his best football is still to come.

They have received, obviously, Terry McCorn is there. They still have John Dodson, but in your mind, those three guys can fit together with the rules that they would play. No doubt. I think so. And he gives you someone like in all three levels. Down the field, he plays well. So just a different, just different than the guys they already have on the roster. So you love the toughness that he brings. And again, playing through contact is some of these targets that he has. It looks like the DBs are just trying to rip his face off. And he's just like, nope, got it. Cut the ball.

For being two years removed from playing quarterback, it's pretty impressive. So if his last name was Smith, does he still the 100th pick? I think so. Let's get to the other side of this. Maybe a pick from today that you thought was a little bit confusing, a little bit surprising. Where would you start in? I mean, Tvander Sweat, it's a gamble. Again, we hit on it.

I don't want to talk about or over talk about it, but it was something that this is a huge gamble with a player that with weight concerns, performance concerns, up and down, you just don't know what you're getting, and then obviously off the field judgment. It's, you understand if it hits, if everything works out the way, the way hopefully it does for the Titans and for Sweat,

you understand the risk or you understand why they would bet on the player, but I didn't think we'd see it happen this early. I didn't think we'd see it happen top 40. We mentioned, we didn't bring up his name when talking about this earlier, but an allusion to a problem they've run into in the past. This is the team that drafted Isaiah Wilson in the first round. And we never happened. We never saw him on the field because of those off-the-field issues.

And it's a different front office, it's different coaching staff, but still ownership. It's still a top 40 pick. So I'm just surprised that the people running that team after that process, I mean, not that far in the rear view of mirror. Caleb Farley? Yeah, Caleb Farley is the same sort of deal. I mean, they've taken some really big risks and really big swings in the top 40

picks of the draft. And for the most part, those have not worked out for them. Jeffery Simmons, I was going to say, they've been chasing the high of Jeffrey Simmons this whole time because of what he turned out to be. And I'm sure they still use that as an example. Like, look, see, this one worked out. And it's like, each one of these cases is so unique and, you know, sweats no exception. Nate, how about you? A pick from today that you felt was a little bit surprising,

a little bit confusing. I don't want to say bad, but a pick that you did not like from today's draft. Rook Aurora Rororo. I think I know. Rook Aurora. Roro, Roro. But it's, plus they traded up for him. Plus, that's why. That is why I'm getting that. Is that, God, what are you, Falcons? But that is kind of why I'm a little confused by it. Not like, I could see the player going on a day two. That is like, that is such an easy call for it because of the talent level. It just was interesting to me that I thought maybe they want a guy that's not maybe, I want to call him projectee, but more like some projection about what he is. He's Tulsy. Toolsy. Toolsy is a better way to put it. I thought that maybe it would go for a guy like, you know,

a guy that maybe is like going to be playing right away, going to be like Trice was that, you know, their next pick. But maybe that D tackle, especially who was on the board. They kind of started that D tackle run at the front of it. So that kind of to me was maybe not exactly what I thought they would go after. Don't hate it. But again, just a, an eyebrow rate. I mean, they traded away in 79 to move up from 43 to 35 to make that. That is a rich trade up. They need a lot of defensive help still. They need a line depth.

Like, they need stuff still. That's why they're just kind of, they're trying to bridge a couple things right now. It's a little confusing. And the other big time trade up from today, the Rams trading a future second round pick to trade up for Braden Fisk. I think both of you guys feel like that's a little bit rich for a player that, well, to steal a term from an eight, be useful, there's a limited upside to somebody like him.

It will be interesting to see his impact. His impact value for that team because, yeah, like the player, I want him on my team, absolutely. At that cost, that's tough, that's tough pill to swallow. So it's not a question of, is the player good enough or anything like that? It's more, is he going to, my return on investment, is it going to match, you know, what the cost was? Was it worth adding all this extra big to it? Like, I don't think it was.

But like you said, I like the player. I really do. But it was one of those, he's a player that you wait for him to come to you as opposed to, I have to get this guy. This is our guy in this draft. He doesn't scream that to me. It is kind of, I mean, we talk about the Rams and, you know, maybe not investing in the process as much. You know, Senior Bowl and Combine and all that. That, that was, senior bowl was his time.

Combine was his time. That's what really, I think, elevated him from third round or fourth round or two. All of a sudden, he's a lot. top 50 pick. And so, but I tell you what, they went for a certain type of player because Jared Verst, he said that the only player who has matched his energy that he's played with in his career was Fisk when he came in. And just playing energy. The relentless motor, yeah. So you can tell obviously the type of player they want, reunite these guys on that defensive line. If nothing else, that's a fun story. Definitely is. Two teams. Obviously, we're going to lump them

together for the rest of time. But I'm curious your thoughts about them just because it feel like pivotal moments. For the Giants kind of pulling themselves back from the brink after last season and for the Jets, what is a phenomenally important offseason considering the stakes. What have you felt about how the Jets and the Giants have approached the weekend so far? I mean, Jets haven't, they've only had two picks, right? Foshanu and Al-Qa-Korley. I do really like what they did with Corley. That was one of the picks I did in my mock draft because I just love the fit. I want to see that happen. You think about what they have in the slot currently and what this can mean. And, you know, it's interested to see if they

use him exactly how Western Kentucky used him as, you know, a lot of bubbles, a lot of like just, okay, manufactured touches an extension of the run game almost, where it just get the ball in his hands and let him create, which that could work, absolutely. I thought, Nate, your point about the fact that we envision Brock Bowers potentially in that role and that corally, even different position, different body type, but usage and maybe role within the offense, the same sort of conversation we're having about Brock Powers, just take a shrink rate to it a little bit. It is. Take a shrink rate and then move them out about two yards. That's what it is. Just move them out a couple yards. Same role. Flat routes, crossers, screens. That is his role. What's great is they have Garrett Wilson. Garrett Wilson's a one. He is a one.

And Mike Williams has a lot of ability. It's just you can't rely on them. So they're trying to create, okay, if teams are going to play us in a certain way, we have to take advantage of those looks. And maybe Corley is going to early on have to have some stuff designed for him, the runway routes that Dane likes to use as well, more gadgety plays, that's fine because we have the actual receiver receivers. So he's more of a fun super role player that they can drop in there, especially at the slot too. And then the Giants get Tyler Nubin, Andrew Phillips, Malik Neighbors. How do you feel about how the Giants have done so far? Obviously, they made a focus to remake the secondary. And you add Tyler Nubin, who will go and get the football, does wide receiver like things at the catch point, smart player, just well-rounded. Is he a super athlete? No, but he is a coordinated athlete. He is a smart player. And then Andrew

Phillips, I mean, I can gush about him all night. I mean, he is a player that might not jump out when you just look at the back of his baseball card or his football card. The stats don't jump out at you. But when you watch his film, you're like, all right, I can, I can work with this. because he's a smart player. He's an athletic player. He's really competitive. If maybe a nickel only, and that's why we're talking about him as a,

you know, where he was drafted as opposed to being a top 50 guy. But for the Giants, as they remake the secondary, I don't think they're going to be too choosy. You know, just get us good players, and we'll figure it out. And the Roger McCreery comparison,

obviously, I think, makes a ton of sense with what they could be looking for. And then obviously we'll like neighbors. I mean, explosive, explosive, explosive. That's what this team has been missing. That's what they add with a guy like neighbors. So maybe if you're the, if you're the Giants, I think maybe the fans, they wanted this, they wanted that, what they come away with with these three players, I mean, I think, you know, it could be a lot worse than that. If we kind of look at a more pessimistic spin, a little back

to the negative, is there a team hall, Nate? This may just be an extension of what they did yesterday for Atlanta. Atlanta might be your answer, but over the last two, days is there a team that you found their approach a little bit confusing? The most confounding pick yesterday was Atlanta and then it's also your answer. It was today. I know. I really impaling on here. Is there anybody else for you, Dan? That is you? You know, I don't, not that like really, it's more like one pick here, one pick there. That's why I was asking if it feels like. Right. As opposed to a hall. Because at first I was like, oh, San Fran, but then I was like, not really though. And also I like Poonie, you know, and I like that pick. And it's like,

Pierce all, to me, is like a little rich, but it's not like, it's like, it's like, it's like, egregious, you know, it's like, I understand, especially where they're at as a team. So I'm just like, yeah, it's more like a pick here, pick there. I guess maybe some of Carolina's stuff. But again, like you said, it's kind of the regime change going like out with the old and with the new. But the old is just very fresh. It still has some bubble wrap on it and still has some plastic wrap on it. But they're like still, we got refreshed this.

So maybe some of that because that's like, I don't know, maybe you can add some different pieces there. Another team I throw out that, they've only made two picks. so it's hard to be super excited about them compared to a team like the Cardinals who drafted 17 players over the last two days. Seattle coming away with Byron Murphy and Christian Haynes with their two picks over the first 81, I understand what they're trying to do. You know, we were wondering, what was that first defensive player of the Mike McDonald era in Seattle going to look like?

What would it tell us? And them deciding we can build the pass rush around somebody like Byron Murphy, not surprising, but still illuminating. And then to get the interior offensive line help, potentially the interior offensive line starter that they need at 81, a player that you love Nate. I think that them coming away with those two guys with the only two picks that they have, I think you feel pretty good about that. Yeah, for a while, my first round, every time I was like, man, I really like Graham Barton there.

I really like Graham Barton there because, yeah, interior swing guy, maybe just in case if Abe Lucas gets hurt, he can maybe go out to right tackle. But hey, we need interior help. He's going to help provide that. They got Haynes, who is one of my favorite, like pure guards that has a little bit of center, you know, kind of versatility as well, working at it. Yeah. And that's a guy that I have a very high grade on,

and they got it around, really, a round and a half later than maybe I would have taken. So, yeah, I really like what they did with Seattle. Again, I'm always going to love teams that build through the trenches. I love teams that built through the trenches with really good players and players I really like. One of the teams that was kind of lukewarm one, as much as we praised the Jaguars last night for Brian Thomas,

today is like, like Mason Smith, that's a pure upside pick. I would have been fine with him maybe 15, 20 spots later. They take them top 50. And then Juryon Jones, I thought it was more of a fifth round, six-round pick. He is a very good athlete, but worry about just what he's seeing out there and how he reads routes. So Jaguars. Bulkie taketh away.

That sums it up very well. It's just not going to love all the picks when it comes to the Jaguars. A team that I think, obviously, the first pick they had yesterday, we were a little bit confounded by because no one had. mocked that was Brock Bowers going to the Raiders. But then today they come away with Jackson Powers Johnson and then Delmar Gleys, who I cannot get over how much I love that name. Del Mar Gleys and Jackson Powers Johnson in rounds two and three, those maybe align more with what we thought the Raiders needs would be. So maybe a little more traditional, a little

more expected on day two compared to the Bowers move that felt like a curveball, even if an intriguing curveball last night. I don't think any of us were going to say the Raiders made the wrong move. If anything, I think, I mean, I definitely applaud it for going to. best player available and going with, again, throw out positional value. Give me impact value. And with the way that they can use him in that offense, love to see how that's going to turn out. And then, yeah, with today with two offensive linemen, the interior and glaze, if they think of

them as a tackle, yeah, let them compete for the right tackle job right away. See what happens. That's what training camp's for. Jackson Powers Johnson, not for everybody type of guy, but he loved the tape. and he's a guy that will come in, compete right away for a guard spot, maybe be the long-term future at center. So I think if you're a Raiders fan,

this feels like a draft where it's not a band-aid. You know, this isn't like we're going to draft players that are going to help us win quickly, and this is going to be an investment for the future with these three guys. Again, it's not bodies at the problem. It's talent at the problem. And we knew they have offensive line stuff,

but they're like, are these guys all the way there? Are we sure what position they are? Hey, but they're talented. They have enough to work with. And Bowers is, of course, what we consider an elite talent. And again, it's one of those things afterwards. Like, well, we couldn't take Brock Bowers there because he wasn't a perfect positional fit for what we needed at a time. And a year later, you're going like, why did I do that?

Like, why would I pass up on that? So it's one of those in the moment, I was like, really, the Raiders? And the Morris, like, why not the Raiders? Like, why would you're the team that pulled the trigger on it? All the other teams were like, well, we're trying to trade up. Like, you know, yeah, they actually did it. I mean, they stood pat, but they didn't actually took him, I should say. It's like Hunter Renfro went and did the Captain America thing, went in the tube and Chris Evans,

and then, you know, gave him the thing, comes down, yoked. Basically what they did with Hunter Renfro. That's great. Yeah. They have the same hair lines, actually. It's perfect. It works. It works.

Who slid a little bit further today than you just ever expected that just went way later or is still even available that you're a little bit surprised? As you say, yeah, we could talk about both because my best. available right now. Jaden Hicks. I mean, I know I was higher on him the most, but still surprised he's still available as we go into day three. T.J. Tampa from Iowa State, we kind of hit on maybe some missteps along the way, not going to the Senior Bowl, not taking advantage of some of these opportunities. And, you know, I think that's showing right now. Jatavian Sanders, even though there's some question marks about him,

surprised that he's still available, Troy Franklin, a guy that you and I both kind of a love, hate thing with him. It really is. It's been nine months of it that were just kind of Walk me through both of those. So you give me the love and you can give me the hate. Actually, you know what? I'm doing the opposite of that. You give me the love and you give me the hate because you're too positive of a person. Let me channel my dad.

What's the love with Troy Franklin? What's the thing about me? It's pure speed. I mean, he's going to take the top off of defense. And he's not a bad route runner, but maybe a better route runner than some people give him credit for, maybe better with his releases and some people give him credit for. And look at the production.

I mean, what he did the last two years in the PAC 12, leading that conference and receiving a lot of touchdowns, a lot of big plays. So get the ball in his hands and let him create. That's the easy sell with a player like this. It's funny because like Dane's talking like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Exactly. The negative sense is he's skinny. He's very, very skinny.

He's not physical, and that shows up a lot. I do think, I should say he's not physical. He lacks play strength. Play strength. Because he's willing to scrap as a blocker, and I know I'm supposed to be negative here. Can you get it done? not always. And so it's like, okay, and that's what, it's like, there's so much I do like, there's this twitchiness stuff that, okay, there's some things, there's some ball skills, but then

there's seven, eight plays where the weight shows up more than all the other stuff. And that can be concerning. But again, I don't think any player has gone up and down my big ward more and Troy Franklin. That guy has gone up 10 spots, down 20 spots, down up. It's just because every day I get a different feeling of them and it feels like the NFL felt the same. It's like, is he inconsistent? I'm not going to bet on it. I'm not going to find out. there's a classic scout line let them be someone else's mistake or let them be someone else's problem

let him be someone else's figure that out that's what kind of I think a lot of teams day with Troy Franklin. Texting with a scout a month ago about Franklin I said, okay, if I put his over under at 50, what are you taking? He's like, oh, he's later for us, but that's a good over under.

And so teams were even kind of like, you know, he might not be for us, but I bet just somebody bites. Somebody will chase that. And here we are into the hunt. hundreds and he's still available. I mean, I like to stay better and Luke McCaffrey, even if they're just different kind of way different styles

and different projection. But yeah, it's just not exactly where it's going with there. A lot of the tight ends came off, and we knew this way. So many flavors with this. Some good athletes in this group, too. And again, we're talking about the bed, some different styles there.

You talk about Sanders. Theo Johnson for me, who's my tight end two, Stover, Wiley. Like these guys, it's just one after another. It's funny because we did the pre-show. And I was like, pick a day three tight end as a guy I'm higher on against the consensus board. And we're laughing like, those guys aren't the top 100 consensus board. Well, shoot.

Here we are. Right. Yeah. But again, it's the flavor that everyone wants with these. But I don't know. I thought those guys would be more like tasting like vanilla where everyone likes it as opposed to something where it's going to acquire taste. Right. And four months ago, if I would have told you Tip Ryman, I was going to be drafted ahead of Theo Johnson.

then just seriously. If you wouldn't have told us that, then who would have? As America's biggest Tip Ryman fan. Uh-huh, 100%. Looking just forward to tomorrow, obviously some of the guys that you're surprised didn't go, but any other players who's landing spy, you're particularly intrigued by maybe Spencer Routler,

one of the running backs, some of the bigger names they're still on the board where they might land? Definitely the tight ends, to your point, with Theo Johnson, but also Jared Wiley, Cade Stover, plenty of good tight ends still available. Some of these safeties are still around.

Yeah. Not just Jaden Hicks, but Leek Mustafa, Mustafa, who's your top safety, right? Yep. So, yeah, Mustafa's still around. Man, we gave him both the kiss of death. I know. Those are our safety ones, and we're like, yeah, we feel good about it, so. I mean, again, it's just such a different flavor for every single one of these guys. It's one of those, the preference says more about you than it does about the player, probably.

I like Malik Mustafa, but it's also one of those things, as I like him, I understand why others don't. And so it's one of those where I'm not going to go, like, you got, What are you not seeing? It's like, no, I get it. I totally get why not. But yeah, the safety run or which safeties have been going, it's kind of, yeah, it's going to be dependent on what the teams want. Spencer Rattler, that's a good one. I mean, where does, we thought quarterbacks usually get pushed up.

He would be no exception. So maybe in the second round. If not, then he's going to the third round. Here we are. He's going to be at least a fourth round pick. But, yeah, where does, is he the next quarterback off the board? Or could we see someone jump him, you know, whether that's Michael Pratt from Tulane or. You know, who knows?

Thinking back to last year and some of the quarterbacks that went ahead of others, like, again, quarterback boards are different from team to team. And so the quarterback, the run that we'll see on day three will be interesting tomorrow. I'm curious where awesome Booker goes. That's one. That is a player. And I think we both like, we both got hyped up on. And then he didn't test what we thought.

But, you know, he moves and does some things that are hard to teach because he can abandon everything. So maybe the testing doesn't show that all the way. I was curious which team would kind of take a swing on him. him because he has some kind of toolsy stuff. Some of the teams we were intrigued by coming into the process just because of how important this draft was, Washington, Arizona, the Chargers, talked about all of them. What do you make of what New England has done so far? Because I think they're firmly in that group.

I mean, I'll defer to Nate just so we can talk about Jalen Polk again. But yeah, they obviously, it starts with a home run. Like you feel good no matter what else happens the rest of this draft. You got Drake, you got your quarterback. You feel really, you feel strong about the future of your franchise. now it's about surrounding him with talent. And, you know, they moved down. You know, they could have had, Latmanchi, they didn't.

They moved down. They really like Jalen Polk. And I really like Jalen Polk, too. I just a little surprise he went ahead of some of these other receivers. You know, and Polk's a guy that he could be a three-level threat. I don't know he was going to create a ton of explosives, but he is, you know, a lot of Bs. You know, maybe not.

It's size B, speed, B, route running B. You know, and that's, you can win with those guys. It's like my GPA, man. There you go. Right. 100%. So it's, and as opposed to maybe a Troy Franklin that you've got an A, then you have a D. And you have a F.

Yeah. It's more of a roller coaster, just like his gauntlet all over the place. So with, but with with Polk, you can understand why a team would want that consistency. Yep. Want a guy that you know day in, day out, what you're getting with the toughness factor, with what he brings. So for the Patriots, you can understand how they came to the conclusion. Polk is the guy that's going to help our young quarterback. That's it. He's a safety net. And I think safety net they can maybe do a little bit more than just a traditional,

just like, oh yeah, he's an auxiliary piece. It's like, yeah, it's reliability. That's what you're getting. He's the Honda Accord for you. So that's how you arrive at the Jalen Polk conclusion. Walk me through how you arrive at the Caden Wallace conclusion in the third round with all those other tackles who were available and just that plan compared to some of the other alternatives. Well, all those other tackle, the tackles were wiped out at that point, right? I mean, it was just likely best available. And we even talked.

Maybe not having an urgency to move up for that guy, Billing wanted to sit and wait for him. We talked about it, though, before the pick was made. Like, okay, tackle is still a glaring need here. And if they have to dip into their fourth round tackles, then you could understand why they would do that, whether it was Christian Jones, who did not get drafted, or if it's Kalin Wallace.

And we'll see how it works out. Because, again, Caleb Wallace is a right tackle only at Penn State, smart guy. He's always square. He plays controlled. Maybe not another guy who kind of fits the, maybe not an A plus anywhere, but kind of B, B, B, B, just kind of steady. So in the third round, that's nothing wrong with a hitting one of the fairway. And maybe that's what they're trying to do with that team.

We know the defense is pretty dang good. It's got some cool pieces. They're probably going to continue the same kind of system there. And then offensively, I think that's what they're doing. It might not be this overwhelming. Yeah, they're really going to help out Drake Mae, but they're just kind of going like, all right, at least it's steady. At least that he doesn't have to just be a hero every time.

You know, sometimes he can just wear glasses and be Clark Kent and be just okay as everyone else trying to help them out. That sometimes having a bunch of bees around it is fine, but you need a dude at quarterback to make that fine. I think May is a dude, so I actually, I like this plan that they're trying to go through right now. One of we didn't talk about really much last night in these terms, because I think we were mostly intrigued by the fit, the position he would play within the defense.

You alluded to this a little bit earlier, is it time to have a quasi conversation in terms of how they've treated their resources in Minnesota in this draft and the way that they've moved around? If you look at all the math, and I'm sure I'll get this wrong six hours into this conversation,

but I think to move up from where they were in the second round to 17, they ended up giving away their second round pick next year, their second round pick this year, their third round pick next year, and their fourth round pick next year. And then the church,

change that they had to go use to get McCarthy. That you'll do every single time. They paid a pretty paltry price compared to what we thought they were going to have to to go get J.J. McCarthy. But to give up three additional picks, essentially, to move up and take Dallas Turner. Are we okay with that because of the type of talent that Dallas Turner is? Or is that a team that was feeling themselves a little bit after making that J. John McCarthy pick yesterday and got a little bit carried away with how they were tossed

away. We're coming out two blue chippers. That happens. I guarantee you that it is and we try to ascribe maybe we I think the general NFL media machine tries to ascribe a certain scientific thinking to quasi doho menzo based on his background where it comes from the man built draft charts for the teams he used to work for so him is shooing the draft charts I'm wondering if that's something where he knows something that we don't or if this is just a classic case of when you get in that chair it's sometimes

human nature just starts to take over. Not everyone's meant to be a general manager. And I'm not necessarily saying that he's not, but yeah, once you get there where your decisions on you, whether or not you're going to move, what the decision making is, and you have to be the voice in the room that is everyone's going to rally around.

And this is what they decided to do. And I do wonder how many scenarios they went through where they thought Dallas Turner was going to be an option for them. Where was it a split second? Like in the moment, okay, let's go get our guy, or was it something that they were fully prepared for? But it's, when you think of his background, when you think of, you know, just what he's known for and you see how all these things have played out, I mean, you look at their draft next year,

they have what, with three picks? Yeah. Like, I don't, and it's a first round pick and then what, a fifth round pick? Like, it's just. No, they'll have a third round contestory at least because of the Kirk Cousins deal, the DeHaw. I have to look up the exact movements of that because they did sign. free agent, so they cancel some of those out. But even if you're going to give them one to two mid-round complex, it's still a lot to give up throughout the entire process. You better hit on these guys.

You better, it lowers your margin for error and-J. McCraughty is a top 12 pick. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody cares how this all turned out. Even with, even if Dallas Turner was an overpay, we don't talk about, this is a terrible example, but it's midnight and I'm losing my mind. We don't talk about the Frank Clark trade with the chiefs. No one cares. Right. And so if you hit the big stuff, the little stuff, and throwing away a little bit of value here and there, it doesn't end up matter. That's absolutely fair. If you know the quarterback, I mean,

even after they took Xavier... I'm not saying that J.J. McCarthy is going to be Patrick Mahomes. Even after Xavier Worthy, got taken by the Chiefs, I got there. They were lucky there the Chiefs, man. It's just like, yeah, they're going to get away with this, and everyone's got to... At least they offset that with Kingsley-Sumatiya. Yeah, they did. A lot of teams kind of, we're doing that. Other than

Patriots, just kind of going, like, here, throwing me a ball throughout the night. But, yeah, I had a different train of thought, but I'm going to cancel it. Well, again, we're about six hours and change into this, so we are going to wrap it up. For those of you guys listening on the podcast, if you want to understand how we arrived at this moment, the entire six-hour draft show is available for you on the athletic NFL YouTube channel. I would encourage you to go take a look at it, even if you are just a podcast listener. For you guys that are watching the draft stream, please subscribe to our YouTube channel.

Probably should have said that last night multiple times. Didn't end up doing that. I am terrible at 85% of this job. And I think the more people learn about that, the better. I just want to extend a special thanks to a few different groups of people here as we wrap up our second night at the draft. First of all, our production crew are the people who we work with at the athletic. Michael Bauer, Alex Hample, Kent Garrison, Erica Mattson, who just joined us was wonderful to have her here. This is a labor of love from a very small group of people who have made this happen in several different iterations over the last few years.

and we would truly be nothing without them doing all of the work that they've done behind the scenes. And also want to extend an appreciation to the folks at Building 22, which is the studio that we've used here in Detroit over the last couple nights, can't even tell you how smooth this has been and how easy you've made it on me. As a moron who can accomplish very little and should not be in this position, the fact that I was able to pull this off relatively smoothly over the last couple of days tells you how much of it was spoon-fed to me. So thank you very, very much for all the help across the board.

Thank you to everyone who tuned in. Again, this is such a fun thing that we get to do. And the fact that you guys are willing to sit here with us for this length of time is the only reason that we're allowed to do it. So for me, for Dane, for Nate, really appreciate you guys spending a couple of nights with us. We will talk to you very soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.