The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - 2025 NFL Draft second and third round recap

Episode Date: April 26, 2025

The second and third rounds of the 2025 NFL Draft are in the books, and the first half of our draft story is all but complete. Who were our favorite picks on day two? Where were the surprises? Which teams came away with the best hauls across the first three rounds? Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen and Dane Brugler answer those questions, and more, as they put a capstone on The Athletic Football Show's live coverage of the 2025 NFL Draft.Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Dane BruglerExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...⁠Apple⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠YouTube⁠Follow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dane on Bluesky: @danebrugler.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Dane on X: @dpbruglerTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To The Athletic Football shows recap of rounds two and three of the NFL draft 2025. I am Robert Mays. Joining me for this, first of all, it is our wonderful draft expert at the athletic. Dan Bruegler. Dane, we did it. We made it through the first two nights of the draft, 102 picks. You look spry. I'm starting to wear down a little bit over here.

Fake it to you make it. Right here. No, it's three rounds in the books. We've got a lot of players that we, thought could go here that maybe are still on the board, which is really interesting. We've had a lot of interesting fits tonight. A lot of teams, I think, have kind of shown us their cards in terms of their vision. We always say, like, you follow the money, what they do in free agency, what they do in the draft really tells us a lot in terms of their plan for their team. And some of that's

really coming into more clear of a picture, which is interesting. Also joining me tonight, it is my co-host here at the Athletic Football Show, Derek Klesson. How are you feeling over there? You made it. This is your first one of these? You powered through. I'm very impressed. Hanging on. You know, I got a little bit of the taste of doing the live show at a big event like this when we did some of the Super Bowl stuff. But that was a much shorter time span, doing two days back to back of what, four, four and a half hours. We just in here for five hours already. It's a different beast. So I'm hanging on. But yeah, definitely a fun learning experience. We're going to run through some categories tonight just to kind of recap. Not only what happened tonight, but over the first two days of the draft.

we're going to start with the best bet presented by bet mGM this is really just staying your favorite pick of night two what really stood out to you yeah and a lot of different ways you can go because i i think there were a lot of fits that i i really like best we're doing later so okay well best my favorite favorite pick of the night i probably go chavonne ravel going to the cowboys um you know like we said when he was drafted he entered the year of number 12 overall on my board in august um you just don't find six two corners, 200 pounds, that have four three speed, have those ball skills. He had a discount sticker on him because of the ACL. And so we thought maybe second round, he falls into the third. Cowboys get a just tremendous value with where they got him. And you're really, both their picks with Azaraku in the second and then Chavon Ravel in the third, tremendous value with both those picks, which is a, you know, a little bit different than what the fans thought in the first round where they thought they didn't get value

with Tyler Booker, which is really interesting. So, but Revelle specifically, really like what they did at that point in the draft. Just almost, I mean, the Cowboys are a good drafting team, right? They've done a very good job at finding talent. Will McLeigh. Yeah, Will McLeigh does a phenomenal job there. There's a reason that we never hear his name. He never gets interviewed for other jobs because he's well compensated and he's allowed to do things.

His own way in the draft. Jerry knows what they have. Right. He knows exactly what he has. But this draft specifically, just these guys that maybe fell a little bit further than we thought, it almost feels like a type of draft that we would attribute to the Ravens. Like Tyler Booker. as a Raku and Ravelle specifically,

like if you just threw Ravens colors on those guys, you would imagine the Baltimore having a similar sort of draft. But that really is the type of drafting team that Cowboys have been over the last 10 years or so. I think we've just kind of forgotten it a little bit because the last two classes have been a little bit more. Yeah. But like, Mazzie Smith is sitting right there.

I mean, they had their misses recently. But most of the, you know, eight-ish classes before that were phenomenal. They were a really good, consistent 10-plus win team for a long time because they consistently reloaded. and then found star players they wanted to pay. Just look at the other corners on this roster. I mean, Diggs was a second round pick. Duran Bland was a non-combine guy on day three.

Like, they have found value with this position outside the first round. Derek, your best bet, your favorite pick from the second and third rounds tonight. You know what I'm going to do. I'm going to shill for one of my quarterbacks in just the way that they built around them. Yeah, of course, Dylan Gabriel. No. For me, it was actually, I really loved the idea of Trayvion Henderson on the Patriots. I said it right before they make the pick.

I was like, they need pop on this offense somewhere. And in terms of my favorite guys who were going to give it to him, it was going to be Trevion on Henderson. And I love what Ramon J. Stevenson is as a brawler and stuff like that. And that's kind of what you're always going to need to pair Henderson with anyway. So I just kind of love them getting that pop in the backfield. I think it's going to give Amay, a guy who can, he can throw the ball to a little bit, but also Henderson's like a good pass protector.

Yes. Like there's just a lot of reasons for me to love this pick. I like their whole draft so far. It's phenomenal. Will Campbell, Trevion Henderson, Kyle Williams in the third round, Jared Wilson as their other third round pick. I mean, those are four guys that had a lot of fans among NFL media in the process. We're jumping on the gun on Favorite Hall.

All right. All right. Okay. We'll save it then. My favorite pick of today, I think it's Will Johnson going to the Cardinals. Even with all the questions and there's a reason he fell as far as we did. And I think too often we do this, right? It's guys that we had seen mocked in the top 10 at one point in the process.

When they go in the middle of the second round, we think, oh, what? a great value. But for the Cardinals specifically, the way that their cornerback room is built, again, Sean Murphy Bunting just being just a guy out there, you could easily replace somebody like that. You have Max Melton from last year. Garrett Williams is a promising player. You have Buda Baker. They've done so much up front. I just think a guy with Johnson skill sets specifically as his own corner and the rest of the makeup of that defense, if that comes together on the back end, combined with what they've done in the front end, in both free agency and the draft, this goes, from being a defense that all we said last year was,

and they're weird, but they don't have any talent to, eh, maybe they might be weird and pretty darn good if some of these guys hit. It feels like a makeover. Yeah, it really does. Yes, and at every level, you know, we're seeing with... I was going to make a some sort of like, you know, queer eye for the, for the Cardinal...

Queer Eye for the Desert team or something like that. It's 1030. We've been sitting here for five hours, but not quick with the jokes, but that is what it feels like. It feels like they have been remade. Yeah. Monty Austin for doing his best impression there. I mean, like in every level of the defense, defense of line, you think about it in the

secondary, like we mentioned with Will Johnson. It's something that they definitely needed, especially after going offense early, the last two years under Monty as GM, really leaning in a defense with this draft. It's what the exactly what they needed. And I think we all really like the directions they went with each pick. And even outside of all the additions, obviously, again, I'm on board. with some of the picks that they made. Obviously, Will Johnson getting some firepower at corner makes sense.

Some of what they did in free agency. But then also Darius Robinson and B.J. O.Jolari are coming back from injury in this year. So it's like, obviously maybe they're not going to be great. We don't know. But if they're at least better than what had to play in place of them last year, it's like, okay, both the floor and the ceiling have a potential to be better this year. It's funny that they've done nothing offensively. It's really just been defense.

And that's not surprising based on what that unit looked like. But if they can remake that defense and we can be talking about like a difference-making, unit and the offense continues to take small steps forward can be an interesting team in the NFC the biggest addition they made on offense this offseason was probably Jacoby percent yeah i mean that it's really all they've done and you know what it's poor true petting you just sitting there like all right i guess it's Evan brown again right which is fine but like that's what they've done along the offense of line specifically over the last few years it's fine until it's not yeah yeah i think brought in some competition but not a clear upgrade there so it's uh interesting they've leaned

so much in the defense, but it also, I don't think, I don't see anyone saying it was the wrong way to go. Jonathan Gannon finally getting a little bit of help over there with Nick Rawls. Next one here, the winning ticket presented by Bad MGM. This is just your favorite haul of the first two days, Dane. So we can expand it a little bit. We had a little bit of a spoiler situation earlier. I think we know where you're going here.

Yeah. I really like what the Steelers did, but it was only two picks. Sure. So a little bit of a, you know, I'm not going to go that direction because the volume wasn't there, but the Patriots with their four picks going, of course, Will Campbell left tackle in the first round. And then coming back today, Derek already mentioned Travion Henderson, the juicy brings to the backfield, just a more explosive option than what they have on the roster. Then they come back with Kyle Williams, the receiver who, yes, undersized, but gives you speed

inside, outside. You can do different things with him. And then they come back in the 90s and get Jared Wilson at center, who will compete immediately for that center. center job. And he might be a center only. He wasn't for everybody, but I think he's going to be a starter for a long time in this league. I really like what the Patriots did addressing the offense with four picks and, in my opinion, finding four starters who will be long-term pieces to what they're trying to build towards. That would have been my answer. I mean, it just, they took a bunch of guys that I just really, really like. You don't have another one? Come on now. No, I do. I do. I'm saying that would have been my first answer. My other one is actually

surprisingly, I really liked what the Browns did. And it's funny, I didn't love taking Mason Graham at 5. I'm probably slightly lower on that than some others, but getting Carson Swessinger at the top of the second round was awesome. Quinn Sean Jenkins is both a good player and also the type of back

that they needed. The fit. It's just a great fit. And then Harold Fanon, I think is a great, great bet in the third round. So, like, I just really like that they've got a little bit more of the pieces they needed on offense to be the team that they needed to be and they bring in Carson Swessinger, who I think can be a lot of what they got out of JOK.

And then again, you know, you take Dylan Gabriel in the back end of the third. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, I talked to myself into that actually being a better pick than I would have literally a month ago. So it's, I kind of like it. I like the Cardinals whole draft beyond Will Johnson. They're definitely in that conversation for me. You know who I like what they did?

Because I think the pieces all fit together. I like what Carolina has done. Tetero McMillan in the first round. So you drop that skill set into the offense. We talked a little bit about it during the show. Nick Scowarton and Princeley O'Me-Mee Allen, those guys are very complimentary. And this is a team that just needs difference makers on defense, period, but especially on the edge. And I always like those sorts of pairings, Derek, where you have one guy who's just more of a power player, you know, pocket push or run defender.

And then Princeley is truly a bendy DPR type guy. And so adding those two skill sets that I think really play well off of each other into the mix along that. defensive line combined with McMillan in the first round. I get it. That's what I'd say. I get what Carolina is trying to do with those three picks. And almost just like, again, I mentioned it on, you know, the original live show, the risk assessment with the two, I think is funny, whereas Scowerton is like, okay, we just need a guy who's going to be something for us, a guy who can give us a little bit of something. And then they're like, what if we got a little bit crazy, a little bit more fun with our other edge pick and a guy who could be really explosive?

So I even like the approach to it, let alone just the players. And especially in their, I mean, three-four scheme. You know, I think it fits what they want to be on defense, both schematically, but then also they just, they needed, because I don't think either of these guys are going to be pro bowlers necessarily, but they're going to come in and be productive. Maybe not in terms of double-digit sacks, but they're going to be productive and give you quality snaps. And by loading up on these guys and have a rotation, you're going to keep it fresh.

Quality is a great word. And that is not something the parent there's defense had last year. It was the least now with the defense and press. It was bad. I mean, it just, and they knew it. They knew it coming into the year. And their best player was hurt immediately. Their best player, and that was even with the best player, healthy.

So even with Derek Brown healthy, I think they knew they were making a deal last year with themselves. We're going to go super, super hard on offense. We're going to see what we have in the quarterback. And we're just going to kind of hang on to our hats on defense. Now I think they're trying to correct that a little bit in a way that makes sense. Can I add one more team? You sure can.

We can add three more teams if you want to. The New York Jets. getting Arm on Membu, Mason Taylor, and Azarea Thomas. I loved all of those players. Like Membu is awesome. And you don't even have to do the, oh, is he going to play left tackle for us and Switch? No, he's obviously a right tackle for that team. Mason Taylor is just to set your watch to it, 600-yard receiving tight end that I think they're really going to like.

And then Thomas, you know, we already mentioned all the Carlton Davis jokes with Aaron Glenn and that style of player. I just think everything they did makes so much sense for getting guys that can be foundational pieces for the way that they want to play. In my seven-round mock two weeks ago, I had Armand Membo in the first, Mason Taylor in the second. I didn't have Thomas in the third. That had been cool. But they went with the blueprint that made the most sense in terms of the value and the positions they really needed to hit.

And then to go offense, offense, then come back with a player like Thomas in the third, just fits Aaron Glenn perfectly. That's a good shout to see what the Jets have done. Can I add one more team? Go for it. I like what the Chargers have done. Oh, yeah.

I think Omerian Hampton is the kind of the engine for that offense at running back. I really like the fit with Trey Harris and Ladd-McConkey at receiver. I think that's a complimentary group. And they needed a guy like Jamari Caldwell. Interior defensive line was a big, big need for this team. And so just another draft that when you see it start to unfold, it's like, yeah, this makes sense. I can understand them attacking it this way. Yeah.

And even though, I think with the. with the bangles like some questionable you know shamar stewart will see how it works out the night pick was a little bit okay but to come back with fairchild that has me coming back towards the bangles that was going to be my best fit

I absolutely love the old fair child going to bangles all right if you're watching on YouTube we're going to keep on rolling if you're listening to this on the podcast we're going to take a quick break let's get to the other side of the coin here dan your least favorite pick of the second and third rounds is what I know this is hard for you.

I'm going to make you do it. Yeah, I mean, I'm such a positive guy. Right, exactly. I mean, like, the Lions trading up to get Tesla, a player who is more of an idea than a fully formed player. Look, I'm all for taking swings. And this is a swing. This is a gamble if you are the Lions. And look, this might be a home run when we look back at this two, three years from now.

It might absolutely work out. I just didn't think they had to trade up that far into the third to get him. Maybe they had better intel that there was another team that really liked him. But the Lions have also been one of those teams under Holmes and Campbell that they just don't care what anybody else thinks about their board, how they value players, where they want to draft them. And so I give them all the credit in the world for being bold and drafting, you know, sticking to their board. that one, it just surprised me, and I personally didn't love it. How about you, Derek? Actually, you might agree with it a little bit.

I really didn't love the Luther Borden pick. He was going to be my biggest head scratcher. Yeah, I just... So at least favorite, I think, confusing. I'm trying to not to put a value judgment on it because I'm trying to preserve my emotional well-being, but it is a confusing selection. It is confusing. That's part of why I don't like it, but I also just, again, I know I'm much lower on burden

than a lot of other people. But I just, Burton was a player I really struggled with just in terms of you get hands on him. He wasn't my favorite player. And then it was kind of a weird fit, so I didn't love that. The other one I thought was a little bit

that I didn't love was Demetrius Knight to the Bengals. Like obviously they needed defensive guys, but I think the reach that they made for that position for him at pick 49. Not my favorite. Yeah, I don't, least favorite is hard.

I got a lot of ones that I think are a little bit confusing. You made me in. the question, so you're right. You don't get to wiggle out. Nope. I'll probably say Demetri's night was also my least favorite. I think just based on everything that you guys have said. Looking at, just digging into this a little bit more.

I mean, Savian Williams to the, to the Packers is one. That was my head scratcher. That's a head scratcher to me. So maybe the head scratcher is best for that. But I think there are a lot of receivers that were a little bit confusing if we just want to do the head scratchers now. Well, and I think, you know, we could go with, you know, like Pat Bryant. going him over Jalen Knoll?

Clearly they have a vision for Pat Bryant in that scheme, but to take him over Jalen Knoll or maybe some of these other receivers was a little bit surprising. So that was another one I wrote down as didn't love that pick, one that I was surprised to see and would have pushed back a little bit on. The Sabian Williams one I think is exactly. Yeah, I'm with you on that. Just how he fits within that offense.

It's hard for me to understand. One that's a head scratcher only just because looking at the offense of skill position players and the way that they're put together. It's not a head scratcher in a bad way. Jackbash going to the Raiders and just what that skill position group looks like. I kind of like when your dog gets confused just kind of tilts his head. That's how I feel about the Raiders right now. It's not a good or bad thing.

It's just a moment of like, huh, more intrigue. All right. I guess that's what we're doing here. Yeah. And it's it makes the Raiders more watchable because of that intrigue. Yeah. Because, okay, how is this going to work? How are they going to implement?

him into this offense to kind of bring everything together. And so we talked about it when Bech was drafted and I just listening to ourselves talk, there was more excitement in our tone of voice than confusion. We talked about for 10 minutes. But it was more excited talk than confused talk. Absolutely. So it's one that I'm excited to see how it plays out. Yeah, the burden thing, just talking about it a little bit further, Derek, just like that

even if beyond what you think of him as a player, how they're receiving pieces. are supposed to fit together in the offense. Maybe they have a vision for it. Maybe they have a vision for how he can be complimentary to what DJ Moore gives them. Again, we mentioned it on the live when we're doing the stream. I think that you look at the way they use James and Williams in the Lions'

offense. It's a lot different than we anticipated them using Jameson Williams. There's a lot of crossers, yak opportunities. The Lions' offense was really built on that. You look at it. Jared Goff is near the bottom of the league in average air yards per attempt. They're one of the most efficient passing team

in the league because of how they create those yak opportunities. So finding a player that gives that to you, I get that, but DJ Moore, that's some of the best stuff he does. So it's, Ben Johnson has more vision than I will ever have about offensive football. But right now, as I sit here, I just don't totally understand how all the pieces are supposed to fit together. The only way I think you can sell it is that obviously as a pure receiver, Burden's a little raw.

And so maybe they think just because they already have Romadunzei and because they have DJ Moore, that year one for burden is actually more. just kind of like an onboarding process to get him to play a little bit more legitimate receiver, but you thought he was so talented that at that point in the draft, maybe they had him high as a first round pick and it's just like, what are we going to do? We're not going to take this guy when we still need a third receiver because they do. It's Oleemini Sykees right now. And I know that they, you know, theoretically, you're going to play two tight ends with Komet but we talked about it last night. Now, Komet, there's not much guaranteed money left on that

deal. So if he's not a bear after this season, it wouldn't be shocking. So you need a third receiver. Even if the pieces don't fit perfectly together, there might have been a situation where they just said, he's the 15th player on our board. We're really going to pass on him here just because we have two receivers already. I guess I can understand that. And I love it for burden. I mean, I love, you know, he was a player who thought he'd be a first round pick. He wasn't. He fell out of the day two. And he goes to a situation where the offensive coordinator, also the head coach, really believes in this player. And so if you're burden, I think you feel good about the situation you're walking into and just, again, going back to the vision that

Ben Johnson has for you in that offense, that's pretty exciting. That's why it's a head scratcher for me and not something I'm dumping on because there's a chance this works out great because of how talented he is. It's just hard to conceive of the construction of the offense right now. Your biggest surprise of night two, Dane, was what? I mean, is this where we talk about Shedra Sanders? I think it is. It kind of has to be.

Yeah. I think it is. Again, we didn't talk. about him yesterday as a surprise because it wasn't a surprise that he fell out of the first round. But once we're talking about falling out of the top 100 picks, falling out of the first three rounds, that's a little bit of a surprise, especially when, so today, just preparing for night two of the draft, there's a second round, third round, making calls, trying to find the team that was going to make a move for him. I couldn't find anybody. The Saints were a Shuck team.

and I felt pretty confident about that. The Raiders, it just didn't, you didn't rule them out, but it didn't sound like the Raiders were going to be that team. The Browns, it sounded like, okay, they're going to load up four picks for next year, and then they come back and take Dylan Gabriel, so the Browns were, who knew, but it was always pointing to the Steelers. And then the Steelers come on the clock in the third round. They didn't trade up.

They could have stayed in the third round and taking Shudder Sanders. They don't. They take Caleb Johnson and the running back. So it's like, all right, now we look towards the fourth round, And it's anybody's guess at this point where Shadur goes because is there a team that says, well, at this point in draft, why not? It's backup. But of a lot of teams saying we just don't even want them in our quarterback.

That's a fair thing to point out. And to share a thing to question. With other positions, there are other teams. They're players where it's like, all right, well, we just can't let them fall another pick. You know, we've got to take them at this point. With Shuris Anders, it might be a lot different where teams are saying, look, we just, just don't want anything to do with him at this point. And it doesn't matter if we're getting tremendous value in the fourth round. We don't want this as part of our culture and what we're

building. We feel it's going to be distraction. And whether that's fair or not, I'm not here to say that it is or not. It's just, this is what NFL teams are going to be talking about. And it's a, it's a situation where we could be mid-fourth round, fifth round. Who knows where he's going to come off the board tomorrow? No one would have thought he would fall out of the first three rounds. So it's anybody's guess at this point. You articulated on the stream and I want you to just kind of relay it out for the podcast audience. You think I remember that? Talking about how, the way that he approached the process and maybe some of the mistakes in that and why it leads to a potential outcome like this. Well, and like you said, the reasoning fell out of the first round was more to do

with the tape and the traits and, you know, why he was the first. The reason he was the 34th player on your board. Exactly. Why he fell out of the top 100, I think, was more of a result, a reflection of the way he went into this process and handled himself. He didn't really do anything in terms of the shrine game. He didn't do anything at the Combine, did private workout. And I had a pro day, but it really wasn't something that it was late in the process and it didn't get teams excited. But during the meetings, there was a lot of negative feedback from teams at the Combine

and a lot of negative feedback throughout the process about the way you handle himself. And it's something where we don't. know we weren't there. We're this secondhand information, so it's hard for us to really talk about that. But I think NFL teams have spoken with obviously passing on him through three rounds. For him to go into these meetings feeling like he has leverage, feeling like, you know, he's, there's a certain point where that boldness, it's just not for everybody. And it can rub people the wrong way. And the way kind of I set it out of the combine was

it's not that he's a bad guy or a good guy. It's just he's a not-for-everybody guy. And not for everybody could be something that includes 32 teams, apparently. So it's just a fascinating test case. And if we know anything about Shradur Sanders,

it's going to create a bigger chip on his shoulder. And so wherever he does end up tomorrow on day three, it will be fascinating to track him the rest of the way. When you're not a nut for everybody guy, when you are not for everybody guy personality-wise, and you aren't bringing plus physical traits to the table. It's a combination that can lead to an outcome like this. You're not good enough on the field that we're going to put up with this and tolerate it.

Bingo. It's that simple. And that's speculation, right? But it seems like we're getting pointed in that direction. The juice has to be worth the squeeze. And I said this on the main live show. Physically, he's pretty similar to a guy like Teddy Bridgewater, but Teddy Bridgewater was still able to go 30 second overall

and be an immediate starting quarterback because who the hell doesn't love themselves from Teddy Bridgewater? He's like an all-time dude. He was a great teammate. He was really smart with the ball, all that stuff. I remember being in Minnesota after he had that injury. And I remember just how shell-shocked everyone at that training camp was in that moment. Just devastated for days afterwards.

And not for like, oh, we're not going to have our quarterback. It's like they felt bad for the guy. Yes. Did you hear the phone call between? the Giants and Jackson Dart. They said both, I believe both Dable and Shane, Joe Shane said, you killed the process. You, every step of the way, you killed it.

And that matters. You have to be able to, Senior Bowl, All-Star Games, the combine, all the workouts and everything, you have to handle yourself a certain way because it's a job interview. And so you can't go into it thinking, like, well, they'll be lucky to have me. I have the leverage. And again, that's speculation.

It's secondhand information. But I think it's a fair assumption to make based off of the way things have played out. Dylan Gabriel going ahead of Scherer Sanders. Again, it's Dylan Gabriel's a guy you want in your quarterback room because he makes, even if he does not become a long-term starter, which probably slim chance that Dylan Gabriel will become a long-term starter in the NFL. Any third round pick at quarterback.

Sure. But you want a guy that makes you better. And he makes you, you makes your quarter room. quarterback room better. And so it seems like an initial shock that Dylan Gabriel would go ahead of Shador Sanders, but the more you think about it, you understand why it played out that way.

Let's get to other big surprises from tonight, Derek. Your biggest surprise, non-Shadur-Sanders-related, was what tonight? I'm cheating a little bit, but actually following the same theme of picks that did not happen, I'm kind of stunned that the Bucks didn't take a pass-rusher. Their pass-rush room is not good. They have Yaya Diabia, who's like solid but not an ace.

they went and signed Hassan Redick who at his best is awesome but he didn't play football last year and that's a scary bet to make especially for a guy who's getting a little bit older he's 31 years old exactly and it's a one-year deal this is a bet on Chris Braswell and maybe that's not what we're considering here and I could get that and maybe this is me just getting into my own head about what I think about the player he's an edge setter to me and a pretty good one actually like I think he's a really good run defender but I just don't see that much pass rush upside with him so I was just stunned that they didn't wanted to take a risk at that spot. And I get it with some of the other players that were on the board with where they took. I think that that that parishish pick, I really believe was like, and Morrison's good too. But I mean, I think that they, they might have, if Morrison was off the board, they might have taken Parrish in the second round. Okay. I think it was a case of, oh, Parrish is still there. All right. We can't, we can't pass them up. So, yeah, I don't think maybe they intended on double dipping at corner, but not surprised they did because of the player. And Igbuka was probably the same case, right? Where it's like,

Maybe they didn't need it, but he was so clearly to me better than the rest of the pass rushers that were left on the board. So maybe they were like, well, let's just get the player who's good, which is usually a pretty decent draft strategy. My biggest surprise is just where Jaylon Null went in this draft. 79th overall. I just, I loved them. I just, I loved everything about what he brought to the table. And just his ability, you know, Derek, we're picking out plays for, you know, when we're trying to figure out clips and we're watching them. some of the post routes he's running and some of the second level separation and just the gas and

acceleration. But he's not just a speed player. He's strong. He's a good route runner. He can go up and get the ball. His catch rate is bigger than he would think for a smaller player. So for him to last as long as he did. And then for the Texans to be able to draft him after drafting Jaden Higgins and now you're

dropping both of those guys onto the same offense again with Nico Collins. And then Tankdale becomes sort of a luxury. Christian Kirk is only there for this year. It's a really fun outcome, even if he lasted a little bit longer than I thought he would. He definitely lasted longer than I thought. I mean, we were talking about him from pick like 34, which is where the Texans picked the first time.

And it was like, he should be off the board here. Obviously, it took 40 more picture for that. But I really liked Noel as well. I mean, Noel was a guy where when I was watching these guys, I actually went in to watch Higgins first because he was a little bit higher on consensus boards and all that stuff. And then you're just watching it. And it's like, man, the guy who's 5-11-190, he's faster than everybody.

on the field. He's quick. He's a good route runner. And then to me, it was the ball skills. He's just not a big player, but he plays so much bigger in terms of what he can go get around him. So I really liked him. I was shocked he lasted that long. My come from was, you know, Christian Kirk type of player. And Christian Kirk was a top 50 pick.

Yeah. You know, so it's, to see him fall a little bit was a little surprised, especially for a player who dominated every level of the process. Senior Bowl was awesome, killed the combine. He was good throughout. And that was just kind of putting the exclamation point on an outstanding season or outstanding career at Iowa State where, you know, one of the best

receivers ever go through that program. So the Texans, it might have probably the same situation where they didn't anticipate drafting both Iowa State receivers tonight, but they found themselves in a position where, shoot, we can't pass on this guy at this point and just totally remake that, not remake, but bolster a wide receiver depth chart that just needed a little bit more and they addressed it in a big way. We talked about it on the show. The way that I look at him. I think I understand what he is. I think he's a vertical slot player in the NFL. And maybe some teams look at that and they see him pigeonhole there. You think that's a little bit too rigid for us to spend a second round pick on a guy. I don't look at it that way. The fact that I can understand

what he is, that's a plus to me, not a minus, but maybe for some teams it's a little bit too limiting for them to spend a higher pick on him. Or there's so many teams that want that specific type of player and they had a greater needed edge. And so it just didn't work out. And sometimes that happens in that draft where, you know, there's only so many landing spots and it's just that that's the beauty of the draft and how everything plays out. All right. If you're watching on YouTube, we're going to keep on rolling. If you're listening to this on the podcast, we're going to take a quick break. Your favorite fit of tonight. So not necessarily your favorite pick, but just seeing this guy land in this spot, you're like, oh, yeah, that's what I needed.

I got a damn, Mike Green and the Ravens. Obviously, the off-field stuff is the off-field stuff and we'll see how that plays out. But just thinking about this Ravens team and OJobo and Kyle Van Nuoy and Owey and like they just, they needed a an ace. They really did. And Mike Green can be that guy. He was a top 10 player on my board. And he has the, you know, the issues off the field that scared off a lot of teams.

The Ravens got to a certain point where they said we can't pass on this guy again. And this could end up looking like a huge steal when it's all said and done. I hope so for the person and the player that that's how it ends up and also for the Ravens. But just in terms of fit and for the, you know, obviously Mike Green wishes he would have gone top 20. But for him to land where he did and the Ravens to address the position the way they did, just love the fit. How about you, Derek? Favorite fit of tonight? You know, there were a lot of picks where it's like, okay, this team needed this and then they took a guy, I liked and I got animated about it.

The pick I got the most animated about when I just thought about, like, what could this player's potential be here? It's Terrence Ferguson with the Rams. I mean, dude. I almost said that was my back back behind my green. Like, he is such a phenomenal athlete. You know, I pulled up the clip when we were doing the live show, but he just has that incredible ability to race across the field on crossers. He's a really good guy that you can put in the slot, but he can still play in line. He's not the best blocker, but, you know, to me, the line is like, can you just be a better blocker than like the same?

Lam Laporteus and stuff like that. And I think he clears that line. I don't think Sean Nuffay is going to draft you if you're not over that line. And so that was pretty comforting to me. And so Ferguson is a guy to me is just, when you bet on the tight end position, you need a guy who can move. And to pair a guy like that with, to me, probably still the best play caller in the league, I'm extremely excited about that.

I have like seven. Is that okay? Go for it. Roll them. Dylan Fairchild going to the Bengals. Absolutely love it. That left guard spot has been an absolute waistlam for that Bengals team, even when they were good.

We wanted ass kickers for Cincinnati, offense and defense. You go watch Dylan Fairchild play, and that's exactly what he is. It's a little erratic. It's a little bit all over the place. I love what he's bringing to the table. Cincinnati needs a presence like that.

Yeah, that was a player who was excited to talk about on the pod we did with DJ about our favorite players because I really had got a chance to get everything out on Fairchild like I wanted to. That was my chance. And I love the player. I think it was tremendous value for the Bengals. for a position they really needed. I hadn't watched him yet because we were doing the offensive linemen the next week.

And so I'm starting to watch the Georgia guys because there's three of them, right? You're watching them all at the same time. All three went tonight. And Rowell, which is a higher rated player. I understand that. We'll talk about him in a second. But I just kept coming back to Dylan Fairchild. I was like, this is the type of guy I want on my team.

The name you brought up throughout this whole process. And I think in a lot of ways there are parallels is Wyatt Teller. Because Wyatt Teller was a wild horse coming out. He was a fifth round pick. He was traded earlier in his career. He figured it out. I think there are a lot of potential similarities that that works out. Talking about favorite fits, let's stick with Georgia offensive linemen.

Tate Rowland was going to the Lions. Ficking rules. That is so, so good. It's exactly the type of player that you can anticipate just working out in Detroit, what he's bringing to the table. He's said it himself. He's a self-proclaimed dirtbag. And those are the types of guys that I think the Lions want on their offensive line.

And so attitude fits, the skill set fits. he's a really good athlete but he's 6-6 like he's a big guy and you see the power that he plays with he will displace guys but he's also a really good athlete

and he showed that at the combat the testing was phenomenal really was and I think if he had played a full season this year and injuries weren't really a question because he's missed time before if you felt really good about him being a durable player

he's off the board in the top 40 or 50 picks I just love with the Lions it's kind of like we've talked about with the Ravens just it's not just that they're good drafters, it's that when they get to the pick, you kind of know who it's going to be. And when the lines are up there,

it's just like, he's there. Come on. Josiah Sterk, going to the Rams, I absolutely love. It's just the type of guy when you think about

how they've built that defensive front, him with Jared versus just sign me up for that all day. I love Nick Eminowarie going to the Seahawks. Yeah. That guy going to a defense with Mike McDonald, that we mentioned it when they were on the clock. We thought it might be corner when they traded up, but it almost is a move at corner.

if you play it out a little bit. Because if they keep Kobe Bryant in the deep half with Julian Love, and they put Emin Worry in the slot and they can move Devin Witherspoon outside, you get some optionality with that secondary. So Emin Wari, I think, is probably a player day and that people looked at and it's just like,

eh, what is he? Yeah, right? Like, what is it? Absolutely. And then when he lands in a place like Seattle, it's like, I guess I kind of understand what he is. It's the same thing with Luther Burden where this is, Eminem Worry is a player that thought he was going to go top 25. He didn't.

It's a bummer. But where he lands, it makes it all worth it. Even though he fell a little bit further than he wanted to, to go with that coaching staff in Seattle. Again, I mentioned, you know, he's different than Cam Chancellor, but to bring a little bit of that attitude back

with the size, the speed, and a little bit of position confusion, role confusion, I think was why we, you know, he fell as far as he did. But you know that the Seahawks and McDonald has a clear vision for how he fits in that scheme. Landon Jackson to the Bills.

Yeah. In the 70s. Makes perfect sense. It just makes perfect sense. He's a limited player, but the boxes he checks are the boxes they want checked at that position. Just one more guy who can affect the pocket, even after signing Joey Bosa, absolutely something they needed. Caleb Johnson going to the Steelers is perfect. I mean, that's just like.

It's perfect. We talked about it on the running back show, and I was looking at it, and I just didn't think it would happen because they didn't have a second round pick. I was like, he is a perfect fit for that offense and the skill set they need it running back, but they're not picking on the second round. So that's probably not going to happen. he lasts through the third, he winds up in Pittsburgh. Love what the Steelers have done with Derek Harmon in the first.

I mean, we can include D.K. McHaff in there for getting him for a second round pick. And then coming back on the third with Caleb, who, perfect for the zone scheme. He got dinged up a little bit during the process because of the way the combine went, the Pro Day wasn't great. But that's just the Steelers are going to take advantage of that and get a really good player who was. the Iowa offense this year ranked like 130th in pass offense. Everybody in the world knew it was going to be about the run game and they still couldn't stop them.

So yeah, Caleb Johnson, if you're going to block for him, he's going to take advantage of it and he's going to get you positive yardage. I'm going to three more, all picks in a row. We don't have to spend a lot of time on them. RJ Harvey going to the Broncos is one of my favorite fits in the entire draft. We talk about Trayvon-Hederson going there. This to me feels like a wonderful Travian-Henerson. consolation prize if you were not going to go that direction.

Just the pop they need at that position within the offense. It can already... It makes perfect sense. You can see it. I can already tell you that in all my fantasy drafts, I'm going to be targeting him in like the 12th round. Yes, exactly, yes. Because he will be productive in whatever way they use him.

Yeah, I'm excited for that one. Trey must go into Washington. Oh, yeah. They needed a player like this. To move Mikey Sane, we're still back inside. I love the fit there corner with 61st overall. And Shamar Turner going to the Bears. I really wanted to add them to add somebody,

like this over the course of this draft. Juice, position flexibility. They needed one more guy who can affect the pocket, even after what they did in free agency. And just watching him earlier today, I could absolutely talk myself into this. And you know, looking at this range, I actually, I know he's a little bit of an undersized guy,

and I know who knows how long he's going to be able to play. Andrew McCuba is actually kind of the perfect Vic Fangio safety. Like their defense is like, all right, we're going to be in too high. Somebody's going to fly out of the shell here and go kill. somebody. And that is the exact way that Mukuba wants to play. And so how long are you going to get him to be able to do that with his body size? I don't know, but he really is like the perfect

kind of safety for their defense. Before we get out of here, I want to answer a couple questions that we got in the chat over the course of the stream. We got two of them. First one is from Jake Damwe. He says, question I add is whether you think this is a draft that DT is being viewed as just as important at Edge with several

runs, reaches for defensive tackle prospects versus the day two defense events. What do you think about that day? Yeah, I mean, I think the edge gets more the love just because you think of the pass rush and all that. But like, defensive line and just winning in the trenches is so important for the entire defense to work in general. And there's just only so many of these guys who have everything, both the size, the athleticism, the strength, and just the understanding of how to play the position. And so this is it. We've been talking about this the entire process.

It's a defensive line draft, both on the edge and on the interior. And so it's not a surprise to see a lot of these teams go in that direction when it was a need. And they just kind of wanted to, they didn't want to be caught without one of these guys. I think for me it's just if we're going to live in this world that's a little bit more too high, you have to be solid along the spine of the defense. And we've seen that with some of the defenses that have been bad the last two, three years, is that's where they really struggled is the middle of the defense. And so I think that's probably the part of the reason that we're seeing teams a little bit more willing to

push DTs up the board a little bit and make that the run as opposed to edge. I think we're seeing the gap start to close financially between the two positions and that changes the way that you can think about premium spots. Defensive tackle to me is a premium position. That whatever little distance there is between edge players and defensive tackles, an overall value I think is starting to shrink. But also just beyond that, when I think about defensive lines right now and a lot of teams approach it this way in free agency, all I think about is how are you affecting the quarterback?

I don't really care which position it's coming from anymore. Your best pass rusher can easily be a defensive tackle now. J-1 Carter, Chris Jones. You can build an elite defense that way. But even beyond that, I think this is just me being like, it's been being power-pilled over the last three or four years. These guys who are pocket-pushers, who affect the pocket, whatever they look like, whatever position you want to write next to their name,

I don't really care. As long as you're affecting the pocketers, you're creating uncertainty, discomfort for whatever team you're playing against, puncturing the pocket is what matters. Where it comes from, it's inconsequential to me. It's part of the reason why the Browns felt comfortable moving back and taking Mason Graham. They had a very big grade on Mason Graham. And it goes to his ability being a leverage monster and deconstructing blocks

and the different ways that he affected the pocket the last two years at Michigan. was impossible to ignore whenever you watch that defense on tape. And that was very much something they wanted. Browns needed to address in a big way. And they did that at number five overall. Next one here from Tristan B. He said, Dane is reference grading to the flashes. What is that process and how does it differ between analysts and teams?

Yeah, and that's, so when I say grading to the flashes, meaning, and this is, Chris Ballard told me this, you know, 10 years ago, if you've seen a guy do something once, you can, you can coach it to be more consistent for him. But if he shows you that he can do it once, then there's, that means he could do it. And so there are players that are inconsistent for different reasons. You know, sometimes it's a physical thing, sometimes a mental thing, a technical thing. But you feel like, all right, I know he can do this. Now it's up to us and the coaches to get more out of him.

So some coaching staffs and scouting staffs are a little more open to that. And that philosophy of, hey, let's grade to the flashes and let's bet, make a bet on we're going to get them the rest of the way there where other teams are maybe a little more conservative. And it's not a, we're not going to paint with a broad brush, but it's more Stewart. You know, if you grade to the flashes, you see, you can understand how the Bengals would say, hey, the traits, watch the film, grade to the flashes. and we feel very comfortable taking him in the top 20. I feel like there's a lot of great of the flashes, interior defensive linemen and edge players in this draft specifically. Walter Nolan.

Walter Nolan is like that. You know, Jordan Birch, his best moments look like that. You mentioned Darius Alexander as a player like that. There are a lot of defensive linemen where it's just like, all, right, you put their 10 best plays up here, and they look like all pros. And so I can understand teams trying to talk themselves into that. And that's what, you know, mentioned, Dany mentioned the different reasons why a guy might be a little bit more flashy. It's sometimes it's mental, sometimes it's technical.

sometimes it's physical. If it's physical, it's like, man, the athlete is the athlete, and sometimes that's a little bit tougher to fits. If it's technique, you can maybe talk to the coaches there, maybe talk to the player, how was the coaching there? Maybe we can be better at that. And then if it's mental, it's again, it's like, okay, well, how does this guy learn? And are we going to be able to teach him properly? Maybe if it's a 21-year-old making a lot of mental mistakes, you can sell yourself like, well, we'll get him into the building. He'll mature. If it's a 24, 25-year-old prospect, you might be less willing to have the appetite for that. So like you mentioned, it's kind of just why does he have these flashes instead of being consistent?

And then do we think we can get more out of them? That's in and that's the key part of it. And that's why, in my opinion, area scouts will always be a vital part of the process and scouting is because they are doing the legwork and understanding the context of why is it this way? How is he being coached? Just getting all those little details to understand what you're seeing on tape is. good or bad or this needs to be improved or this you know why things are the way they are the context of it so that's what it's up to the area scouts to figure that out is it something that he can improve is it something where this is just kind of who he is and just understanding of why it's

not being more consistent so grading to the flashes can certainly backfire but it's also how you can unearth some guys that you kind of hear we hear this a lot maybe during the process is he'll be a better pro than college player, which can be overused a lot. Sure. But it's certainly a relevant phrase to use with certain prospects. All right. We're going about six hours here. I think it's time for us to wrap it up. We sincerely appreciate everybody who has tuned in over the last couple nights. I tweeted about earlier today, I mean, the numbers on these shows and even what they compare to from last year, it's crazy to watch the growth in the audience that we've had over the last couple years, but also just the quality of what we're trying to put forth on this weekend.

I vividly remember that first draft show in 2021 where me and Nate were sitting in a courtyard by Marriott Hotel Room with three iPhones. It is very different right now. And that's because you guys are tuning in. We sincerely appreciate that. I want to thank everyone here at Big Shot Studios in Chicago for hosting us over the last couple days. They've done a phenomenal job. We have felt so welcome and just supported over the last 48 hours. So a sincere thank you to all of those people. Everyone in our control room back there, Michael Beller, Alex Hample, Daniel Lamb and Andrew Lou, everything that they did to contribute to this.

Sincerely appreciate that and to you guys. I'll be mushy here for a second. You and I both signed new deals this year, multi-year deals with the athletic. One of the reasons that I felt really good about being back here was the chance to work with you and the chance to continue doing this. I love it. I have so much respect for you and the work. that you put in all year round to be great at this, you make me want to be better at what I'm doing.

And so it is a true honor to be able to sit here and do this with you every year, sincerely. The feeling is absolutely mutual. And I mean, you are steering our ship. So this does not work unless we have a captain steering us in the right direction. And that is kind of the best compliment I can give to you. So thank you. Derek, sincerely appreciate everything that you've given throughout the entire season and this. You know, you started as like a draft space person.

and how I found your work working on quarterbacks. And I always loved, even before we hired you, the way that I would always talk about you is I thought you had a better way of articulating what makes players special and different than almost anybody. You just had a way to distill why a guy feels the way that he feels. And I think that you do such a great job of applying that skill to the draft process. So having you here tonight has just been such a pleasure and it's so fun to work with you over the last year. I mean, I don't even know what to say. I'm just, I'm blessed to be here again. This is, you know, again, one, I was always a draft guy growing up. That's how I got started. And so this day, this moment has always been very special to me. And so to be able to get paid to be on this stage with you on with these guys is phenomenal. And then is and that too. Like, again, this is always how I spent my birthday. I can't imagine doing it any other way. And so I've just been incredibly blessed to be part of this program. And so I'm happy to do it again next year. And I'm just, again, this, you've been such a great host for me. I think you've already, you know, when I joined, I did mostly written work.

Like, I didn't do a whole lot of of talking and podcasting and being in front of the camera. And I just think you brought parts out of me the way that I was able to explain stuff and articulate stuff. And talk about ways, talk about things the way that I actually wanted to talk about them instead of just throwing my mind jumble out there. And I just, I couldn't appreciate that anymore. So I feel like I've grown in doing this and hope this is only the beginning. You are a very welcome addition to our draft coverage this year. So I really appreciate everything you brought to the show. Definitely.

Thank you, Dave. We're not done this weekend. We're just done with the live streams. Our next show will be coming out tomorrow evening into Sunday. We're going to be recapping day three of the draft, rounds four through seven. Not live. We're not going to talk about every single pick. We talked about every single pick today over the last two days.

So if it were up to you, we would be sitting there all through rounds four through seven. We are not going to do that, but we are going to have a recap. Cat podcast that is going to be showing up on YouTube in the athletic football show feed on the podcast channel over the next 24 hours or so after that wraps up. If you are a YouTube watcher, please like, subscribe, do all of that great stuff. If you're new and you've been hanging out with us this weekend, we sincerely appreciate it. We do this show all year around. It's not just the draft.

So if you want to stick around, that would mean a lot to us. And it means a lot, every single one of you to spend some time with us this weekend. So that's all we got for now. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.