A conversation with Houston Texans head coach DeMeco Ryans, and a check-in from Dolphins camp with Marcel Louis-Jacques
00:03This is the Athletic Football Show.Welcome to the Athletic Football Show.I'm Robert Mays.Great show for you guys today.A little bit later in the show,the Dolphins writer for ESPN NFL Nation.Marcel Luis Jacques is going to join us to chat about a team with a ton riding on this season.And one of the most talented rosters in the league,
00:32a massive question at quarterback year two of the Mike McDaniel regime.Vic Fangio gets to town.We couldn't not have a Dolphins chat.as part of this training camp tour.So very glad that Marcel could spend some time visiting with us.Also, I'm going to chat with Houston Texans coach, D'Amico Ryans.It's going to be the first thing that you hear.But before we get to our discussion with D'emico,
00:54I wanted to address a little bit of news.Obviously, a wild day in the NFL on Saturday night.Jonathan Taylor officially requests a trade away from the Colts.Jim Mersey comes out publicly and says,we're not going to trade Jonathan Taylor,tweeting out things about the state of the running.back market. It seems like not an hour goes by that something wild isn't happening in the NFLnews cycle here over the 72 hours or so. I just don't know what to make of the Jonathan Taylor
01:22trade request in the Jonathan Taylor, Jonathan Taylor trade market. I don't know what team in theNFL is going to give out a draft pick that the Colts feel compels them to make the dealand the sort of extension that Jonathan Taylor is probably looking for. And it's just the latestentry into what has become a very messy situation with the running back market.There was a leaked report earlier this week from NFL Network that the Raiders had offeredJosh Jacobs, a contract extension worth $12 million a year.And who knows what the details of that look like from what I've heard that guarantees onthat are not nearly in line with what somebody like Josh Jacobs would want on that sort of
02:00extension.And that's a difficult part of this is there's no real way to know what the agents arelooking for for some of these backs and what teams are actually offering. If these guys are lookingto reset the market and they're looking to keep pushing this forward and make more thanChristian McCaffrey made on his extension, that probably just isn't happening anymore. But is therea world where they can get, let's say, three years, 40 million, which is about 13 million a year,just above that Nick Chub, Derek Henry market, that's kind of that second tier of running backdeals. And can the guarantees in that be in the 2020, 20 to 25 million dollars?
02:35range. That's two tags. That's not that great of a contract when you look at what two tagsare going to cost and what other guys have gotten paid at the position. But it just feels likethat's probably where this is going to have to settle. And I imagine that the agents probably aren'tthrilled about that because they look at what other guys have gotten paid and they look at whereother positions have gone. And that's how this is supposed to work. You're supposed to get a littlebit more than the last guy and it just doesn't feel like the running back market is ever going to getback to that place. So does it change the expectations and should it change the expectations?for some of these guys who are going to be asking for these deals.
03:08I feel like that's going to be the question lingering over all of these discussions withSequin Barclay, Josh Jacobs, and Jonathan Taylor as we head into this season and into nextoff season.So a lot to pay attention to.A lot to keep an eye on there with the running back market.But right now, we're going to get to our discussion with Texans head coach D'emikoRyan's.Really good to visit with Domeco on the eve of his first season with the Texans.
03:32Obviously, a lot of excitement in Houston, more excited.and then there's been in a very long time with him coming to town.CJ Stroud being there, them getting two picks in the top three.Really enjoyed our conversation.Let's get to it.We are here now with Houston Texans head coach, Domeco Ryans.Even saying that still feels a little bit new and a little bit fresh for me,but I'm sure by now you're all settled in, feeling good.
03:58Yeah, definitely settled in, feeling good.Excited right now to get started here with training camp,excited to take off and see how the season will be for.course. So you played 10 years in the league. And in the last six years, you've played with or coachwith guys like Kyle Shanahan, Robert Sala. You played for Andy Reed, Gary Kubiak, Wade Phillips,some really good coaches. As you kind of thought about what kind of head coach you wanted to be,what would you say is the most important nugget that you feel like you took from one of those guys?Well, I think I took a little bit from everyone, started with Coach Kubiak, just creating that family
04:37environment, creating a first class organization, right, from Coach Kubiak.Moving on to Coach Andy Reid, it's all about protecting the players, player first mentality,making sure your players are protected.And on to Chip Kelly, where it's all about being innovative, right?Never settle in for staying the same, always looking for that next thing, that cutting edgementality.I learned that from Coach Chip Kelly.And moving on to being with Kyle, Shams.
05:07Senehan, it's just all about protecting the team.It's all about being locked in on the details of your job, right?And that's one thing that we harp on, one thing that's always, you know,resonated with me, but being there and seeing him work and seeing that themastermind that he is and seeing to operate just shows me, like,the attention to detail that you have to have as a coach, as a player, right?It's paramount.And then from Kosala, I know what I learned from him is just, you know,
05:40how do you teach more different people in a room, come from multiple different backgrounds,how do you, how do you hit everyone in the room?So learning that teaching style of Kosala.So I think as I see here today, right, for me, I love what all those men are poured into me.And that's why I'm sitting here today.And I just hope to be able to emulate them in some type of way to create.and craft my own style to be able to make it work for here for the Houston Texans.I'm sure when you got the job or when you were interviewing for jobs,
06:14you're talking to people that you had worked with in the past,mentors, whoever it might be.What was the most important or I think kind of telling bit of advice that you got from someoneas you kind of started this process?Do it your way, right?We understand the urgency that comes with head coaching jobs nowadays.So it's make sure you do it your way.and have fun with it along the way.
06:39Anyone who listened to the play caller seriesthat Jordan Roder did on this showknows a little bit about this.But in 2019, you guys kind of underwenta pretty important schematic tweak in San Franciscowhere you started playing a lot more quartersand drifted away a little bit from that foundationthat covered three world that Robert Sala had lived in previously.
06:56I wanted to ask you, in your two years,coordinating the defense,what do you think is the most important tweakor a little bit of evolution that you guys underwentthat kind of allowed you to maybe stay one step ahead of what teams are trying to do against you.Yeah, for me, it's all about, you know, what does it take to win the game that particular week?So it's not about being said.It's about being flexible.
07:19And that's what I learned the most.Like, it's not about sitting in one thing, the entire game.It's all about as a defense.It's all about attacking and attacking your opponent.And for that, to attack your opponent, you have to have a little surprise element there.And I think that's what helped me and that's what I learned as I continue to coordinate.When you're looking for ideas over those couple years and you're watching other teams,what do you think is maybe the most surprising place you found something that maybe at first glance is a little bit removed from what you guys did,
07:50but you still felt like you could incorporate to kind of the overall larger plan you were trying to implement defensively?Well, it was just, you know, it's studying in the offseason.That's where most of it comes in and studying, right, the top defenses in.in all different categories, right?So doing that deep dive and not just looking at ourselves,but also looking at the league and seeing where are the trends around the leagueand what's working defensively outside of what we do defensively.So I try to look at different schemes and try to see,
08:20is there something that I'm missing or something I can implement?Is there something?Is the game kind of transitioning one way or the other?So I just want to make sure I mentioned like what Chip Kelly earlier,that I'm staying on top of the trends and the things that are going on around the league.What's one kind of light bulb moment over the last couple of yearsthat you found particularly interesting as you were doing some of those deep dives?What I learned is, right, not that I didn't learn, but it's also about the players that you have
08:51and the players, like, can they implement what you want to do, right?I want to do many things and it comes to schematically.I feel like there are some things out of the box that I can.can do. But if the players, right, if they can't grasp it and they can't go out and perform it at a high level,then my ideas don't matter. Right. It still, it still comes down to who do you have that can go outand execute at a high level. And that was the benefit of being there at San Fran with guys likeFred Warner, Nick Bosa. All right. Yeah, just so many, so many guys, Dr. Greenlaw, guys who had beentogether for such a long period of time that it was easy to try to.
09:32go in and kind of change and tweak some things because those guys made the play calls come to life.So I actually wanted to ask you about that specifically, but just before we get to that,what is one thing during your time when you were thinking about how to construct something defensivelywhere Fred allowed you to do something that virtually probably no other defense in the league could pull offjust because of what he gives you?Yeah, I think one thing that sticks out of my mind, it was we were playing a playoff game versus the Cowboys.this past year.And we were running this scheme where I was asking Fred to pretty much bluff in the A gap
10:10and then play the deep post.And they tried him.Dak tried him.I think it was C.D. Lamb running through the post.I wasn't expecting him to be on C.D. Lamb.But Fred, you know, he never blinks at anything I ask.He never blinks.And it was a big third down stop for us where Fred is in the A gap.
10:32And he takes off, cover CD Lamb, down the middle of the post, you know, incomplete pass, third down stop, and it's just going crazy.But that's the type of flexibility.That's the type of awareness, the smarts that he has as a player.And he's, he never backs down from anything I ask him to do.You know, it's always, oh, I got you.Don't worry about it.So that gave me a lot of comfort as a play caller knowing that I had Fred Warner as a guy executing.I think he did that twice in that game.
11:01They only threw it once, but you asked him to do it twice, which is absolutely why.We talk about that play all the time on this show because it is absolutely crazy that a guy lined up in that spot could cover him that far down the field.So the Miami game this year, I think is another fun example where the depth that he's getting on some of those in-breaking routes kind of disrupt so many things that that that Dolphins team could attack other teams with that they probably couldn't attack you guys with.Right.And it grows like with Fred, like seeing him from his rookie year to where he was last year,just to see that growth and to see things that he can take away the way when I speak to other opposing offensive coaches and just try to pick their brains on what's that one thing that makes us difficult to go against.And it's the linebackers and in particular is Fred Warner and how smart he plays.So you said this, you know, when you have those guys that are in the same system for four or five,
11:57years, the type of stuff you can do and the flexibility that you can show is just so different.You're walking now into a team where everyone's in year one. You guys are kind of starting over.What can you not do with this group that you could do with that core of players in San Franciscoover the last two years? Yeah, well, I think, first off, it's just as we go through trainingcamp and you see the strengths and weaknesses of what positions can I put guys in. And so therewon't be just, you know, a random defense in the middle of the week.Hey, Fred, can you do this?And so it won't be that.
12:32It'll just be a gradual, right, gradual process to see what can our guys handle.And at the end of the day, as long as we have 11 guys playing as fast as they can possibly playand playing together and any defense I call it, it'll come to life.Can you give me an example of just putting maybe one of the guys on this roster in a toughposition specifically?I think a guy like, you know, you look at Christian Harris.I think about the linebarry.You look at also Eric Stingley, like putting them in positions to where, man, there may be a lot of one-on-one opportunities in the style of defense that I would like to play.
13:09So it's about seeing those guys, putting them in those opportunities, putting those guys in those positions in practice to see how they thrive in those pressure situations.Bringing in a guy like Jimmy Ward who is fluent in these kind of ideas, was that a guy.important to you to kind of be have with somebody that can translate some of this stuff on theplayer side as you guys get going with it oh for sure jimmy is one of the best football players i've beenaround smart player very instinctive right communicates well on the back end so he's another guy who'svery calming right as a play caller when you're asking guys to do things you're putting them in toughpositions jimmy is a guy i know we can count on and he's a guy that also our younger guys can lean onYou talk about Jalen Petrie being a young safety.
13:54He can gain a lot of insight from Jimmy, who's been in our defense before, understands, you know, what we're looking for, what we're asking of him.That just speeds up the, right, it speeds up the development of Jalen Petry.You don't have to get too far into this, but I'm curious, through OTAs and as you've been in meetings with those guys so far,is there a particular insight that you feel like clicked for some of the young guys that maybe Jimmy was able to share with them as you guys were installing and kind of teaching the early parts of the defense?I mean, you can just see it the way him and Jalen are back to operating in the spring.You can just see an instant connection and it didn't take long, right, to see both of thoseguys making plays, Jalen, Petrie making plays, you know, on the ball, several plays.Every day I can highlight him doing something as to the type of style, the type of mentality
14:42that I want our defense to play as.And so it's been, it's been very fun to watch just in the spring.So we'll see how that grows throughout training camp.You're thinking about a defensive backfield and how it's constructed.You know, Jimmy played in the slot last year, but he has experienced safety.Jaywin played all over the place last year.He's in the box.He's in the deep half.
15:01He's in the post.How do you think about building that group of five?Like what sort of skill sets, what sort of body types?How do you actually construct that position group in your world?It's about having flexibility within that group, right?As many guys as I can have that can cover, right, especially when it comes to thatslot corner. That's a very important position nowadays with all of the 11 personnel that you seeand all of the passing concepts you see from offenses. So having as many guys as I can,
15:33five guys who can go out there and cover these elite receivers in the league, that just givesus a lot of flexibility defensively and what we can do. So we'll see, put those guys in sometough spots to see what they can do. One more defensive backfield question. When you look at DerekStangley's rookie year,What do you think he did well last season and where do you think he needs to be better this season?I think, you know, with Derek, I think just with his size and his ability, I think he did a really good job of tackling.He's a strong player.And I want to see him just continue to improve upon what he did as a rookie.
16:09I continue to attack the ball even more.Hopefully we can get him in those positions where he can challenge and compete against some of the best receivers.When did you know that the trade front?for Will Anderson was possible.Oh, new there kind of draft day.You know, we're hoping that we can, you know, possibly pull it all.But again, you never know, until you're on the clock.You never know, you know, what the other team is going to do,
16:38how the draft is going to play out.So at the end of the day, I'm just thrilled to be able to get C.J.and Will, be able to get both of those guys to, I mean,two of the top three players in the draft this year.That doesn't happen a lot.So I'm excited to work with both of those guys.So Nick didn't bring it up to you previously.That was kind of something you found out about in the moment or when you guys been talking about it.
17:01Yeah, we have been talking about it.Me and Nick or, you know, in lock and step the entire way.So it's something we had talked about, you know, for a while leading up until the draft.But when you're on the clock, you still, you never know how things are going to play out.When you're thinking about making that move, why is it important?You gave up so much to go get him.When you're kind of considering the pros and the cons of doing something that aggressive,what did you want to communicate to Nick about why you felt like that sort of piece was important to what you guys wanted to do on defense?
17:32It's all about the people, right?And the person that Will Anderson is, the man that he is.And also would CJ like to be able to get two guys, right, who are the type of men that I want in the locker room.These guys are leaders.These guys are dedicated to being the best of their craft,and these guys have a contagious competitiveness about themthat's going to uplift other guys around them on the offensive,and defense's side of the ball.
18:00So when you can make those moves this early, our first year,make those moves, right?I'm all forward because it's about the character of the guys.So you feel like just because it's year one of your time there,it's still pretty early in you guys building the roster,kind of having those beacons of what you want,want your program to look like makes a price like that worth it. Maybe in other cases where it wouldn'tbe. No doubt. And who knows what is the price, right? Who knows what next year looks like? We can't
18:27live in the future. What next year look like? What can we do right now to improve our team to give usthe best opportunity to go out and be the best team that we can be right now? And that was the move wewanted to make. Do you feel like you got a particular insight into him because you probably know people inthe building down there? Like, could you have conversations?with the people in Alabama that you maybe wouldn't be able to have in another school to get insighton a guy like that?I think for me is the interesting part of it is, you know, I've kind of watched Alabamaover the past couple of years watching it.
19:01And all you're like here, you know, is Will Anderson, Will Anderson.All right.You see the plays that he makes on the field when it was crunch time, third now he made big time plays.But when you hear just all of the stories about the type of guy that he is, the type of leaderthat he is and how he changed, you know, that locker room there.And it's, uh, he's been the same guy from his freshman year of college, even up until now.So you know who you're getting when you get a guy like Will Anderson.You guys brought in CJ, you know, he's competing for the starting job right now.
19:34I'm sure that there are competing factors in your mind of when he should play because youwant him to be ready.You want him to give you your best chance to win, but you also want to give a young guyexperience as soon as you can to kind of help in his development.How do you weigh those factors as you kind of consider the decision of when he's going to get on the field?It's an evaluation every day, right?Every day each guy is getting evaluated and you want to see how are we, how is he improving each and every day that he's out there.He's taking the coaching, see, taking the next step each and every day.
20:05And it's at the end of the day, who's the best person to go out and lead our team?And that's what it'll come down to.Bobby Sloak is your offensive coordinator.You obviously work with Bobby for the last couple of years in San Francisco.What about him kind of led you to make that decision and pick him to be the guy who ran your offense?Bobby is a guy.I know.I know the man.
20:26I know how detailed oriented he is.I know how dedicated he is to the process of being great.You know who he learned under for the past six years, learning on the couch.And I know, you know, Bobby is a very smart guy.Bobby has helped me in my coaching journey.Bobby has helped me. I've learned from Bobby.And so I know Bobby will do an excellent job, right?Seeing the way he installed the offense there last year,
20:52installed it with our coaches here this year again.He's going to do a great job.And I'm fired up for Bobby to have this opportunity because it's well deserved.Obviously, every time this offense has gone to a different place around the NFL,you think about Mike McDaniel, what he did with the Dolphins last season.There's so many other examples.You always have to filter it through your personnel.And that's the most successful examples that we've seen of this.
21:16So how do you kind of figure out as you build what you want to be on offense?Maintaining the foundation of what that system is while also understanding these are the ways to put our players in the best possible positions.And that's the beauty of our offensive system, right?It can morph into whatever it needs to be based on the players.And at the end of the day, on the offense, it's all about putting the ball in your playmaker's handsand allowing them to do what they do and to change.the game. So you can see how the offense, it changes when you have Debo Samuel in youroffense or you have a Tyreek Hill in your offense, right? That the offense can morph into whatever it
21:53needs to be, right? But we're going to make sure that we tailor it toward the strengths of our teamthat we have here. So you will see each. And as you talk about the offense, as you go to differentteams around the lead, it always has a different feel based on who's running the offense. So Bobbywill put his style, his imprint on the offense.It won't look exactly like San Francisco,but Bobby will put his imprint on it.It's always fun for me hearing stories about Kyle doing his installsand there are clips from the Texans teams that you were on.
22:24And it's Andre Johnson as Teach Tafer receivers.When you were installing your defense,I'm sure there are some kind of random bits from your careerthat you wanted to show guys and like, we want to do it this, this way.What's kind of the most random throwback clip or install clipthat you showed your guys as you were putting in your defense for this year?I show them what not to do of me playing when I was with the Eagles and Trent Williamsis throwing me out to the sideline there.
22:50So I told him what not to do.That definitely works.That's as important as showing them what to do.So I really appreciate that.When you look at CJ, the last thing I'll ask you, as you kind of made the decision abouthim being the guy you wanted to lead the franchise, you talk about him as a person.As a quarterback, I don't know how much Nick solicited your opinion and you're kind ofkind of your thoughts on him as a prospect.
23:13But where did you feel like were the ways that he kind of stood out above the rest of that group ofquarterbacks that was still available?Why did you just on a football level decide this is the guy we want to take this bet on?Well, you see the accuracy, right?It jumps off the tape, the accuracy that he plays with.You see the growth of his play from game one, right, to the Georgia game.You see him grow as a player.And again, he's only played two years of college football and see that grow.
23:41from his first year to where he was in his second year.So I love where he's headed.I love that he's on that path to continue to get better.He's not a complete product just yet.He still has a lot of things to improve on.But I love the fact that you can see improvement.And you can see a guy who it means a lot to him to work on it behind the scenes to improve.So that's what set him apart from me.
24:07Was that Georgia game kind of a moment where you're like, okay, I'm comfortable with this.Like seeing him do that against that sort of competition, did that kind of solidified in your mind about what sort of player he might be at this level?Yeah, you see it throughout.I mean, you see flashes of it throughout his entire season.But again, that culmination of that Georgia game, it was very impressive to watch and definitely help making that decision easier.Awesome.Well, that is all I got for you.I know you have a lot to worry about because training camp starts in like two days.
24:38So practice starts in like two days.Really, really appreciate you taking the time.at a very busy time.Best of luck with everything.Thank you so much.Thank you, man.Have a go.All right, joining us now.
24:55It is the Dolphins writer from ESPN.com.NFL Nation?ESPN NFL Nation.ESPN NFL Nation.I want to get this right.Marcel Luis Jacques,appreciate you coming on with us, man.I really appreciate the time.
25:07I'm more impressed, like,got the last name right.Easier than the job title.Come on.You're like a TV star now.I know your last name at this point.It's been a long road, man.A lot of Luis Jacques Guise.
25:18Lewis Jacks, like a lot of strange looks at people.Like, did you really think that sounded right?Like, you could just ask, that's my thing.You don't know how to pronounce something.Just like ask somebody, right?But it looks, it sounds like it looks.I don't understand why it's so hard.If you've heard, if you've heard any sort of French in your life in any capacity,
25:36I just don't know why it would be difficult, but here we are.It's for the cultured folk, for those of, for people who have heard we, for people who.Yeah, the three days I spend Paris in 2010 are really helping me out here.2008. That's how long ago it was. I didn't remember when it was.So we do not have a Dolphins writer at The Athletic, but as part of my training camp travels,I couldn't not have a conversation about this team. You think about the offseason they had,the season they had last year, the expectations for this team, so many different thingslining up where we got to do this. And you and I have known each other for a long time, and I really
26:10wanted to have this discussion with you because any sort of pre-season training camp tourset of discussions, whatever, would not be complete without having a visit with the dolphins.Exactly.I mean, they're one of the most interesting teams in the NFL.Correct.And not even like, before you even talk about like the on-field product, they've got a coachwho makes headlines every time he gets in front of a microphone or a camera.They've got one of the most recognizable names and faces in the league in Tyree Kill and
26:39now Jaylin Ramsey as well.They've got one of the most polarizing quarterbacks in the NFL into a tungle by lower.So you get all this off-field stuff.that will draw national interest.And then you get to the products on the field where, you know, before Jalen Ramsey's injury,we're talking about one of the most complete teams on paper the league has to offer.So Jalen Ramsey is where we have to start.And this on paper looked like maybe the most talented defense in the entire league.
27:03But Jalen Ramsey is a huge linchpin in that.Think about what he did in this defensive system in L.A.and everything else that allows you to do.You can flip your resources one way.You can ask him to do things within this scheme that you can ask very few corners in the NFL.So with him out of the...the mix now until probably at least December.How does that change the way that
27:21these defense looks and how does it change the planfor what this defense could look like under McFandio?Well, it's tricky because you don't really have thatjack-of-all-trades defensive back like you did in Jalen Ramsey.A guy who could play basically any position on the fieldexcept defensive tackle or defensive man.I'm sure if you ask them to that he'd give it a shot.Now, they are in a better situation than most teams would be
27:43if they lost the Jalen Ramsey because they still have Zavian Howard.This is still former all-pro pro bowler in each of the past three years, although he would tell you himself that he probably didn't deserve it last year.Either way, to have that kind of name recognition and respect around the league, to get voted into the Pro Bowl, when you have a down year, they're going to be okay in that regard.They're not going to be a top three, top two secondary like they would have been before Ramsey got hurt.But again, their floor is a little higher than the average NFL team here.how does the rest of the defensive backfield personnel shake out?We know John Holland is going to be one of the safeties,but other outside corner now, nickel, second safety spot, third safety spot.
28:23What is the other personnel that we're looking at here?Because I think on the defensive side of the ball,that's probably the area of the roster where people know the least.Yeah, they're still waiting on a couple guys to get healthy.We saw out of practice today.Brandon Jones and Terrell Williams, both safeties,wearing the red non-contact jerseys.That's actually the first time we've seen them in the non-contact kit this summer,
28:43but they haven't participated in team drills since,I mean, since Jones, since October, November when he tore his ACL.And same thing with, same injury with Williams, except dating back to August.We also haven't seen Nick Needham at practice at all.He's on the physically unable to perform list.That's their starting nickel corner when he's healthy.He tore his Achilles in October, working his way back.We've seen him running on the side, jogging on the side,
29:10but obviously not quite ready to join in football.all activities quite yet until those guys get healthy.Jones and Needham are starters without a doubt.Trill Williams, he could compete for reps.Until those guys get healthy, Deshawn Elliott, the safety they just signed from Detroit,probably slots in there.Baltimore for a while.He's been around.
29:29Yeah.Yeah, he's probably going to slot in at starting safety next to Javon Holland.And then it gets interesting at cornerback.Cater Cole, who undrafted rookie last year, sensational rookie year last year,even after playing, despite playing half the season with a broken thumb,he had to get surgery on it this off season.They're high on him.They love him.
29:49He will probably start in the slot in place of Needham.And then outside, they're going to have to choose between 2020 first round pick,Noah Igbenogany, 2023, second round pick, Cam Smith.And now recent signing veteran Eli Apple, who let's be honest here is probably the leader in the clubhouseuntil Cam Smith gets used to the speed of the game.So they've got some bodies.It's just a matter of figuring out who plays where.And the defensive backfield personnel, I think, is the main question because the front seven is, I think, as good as any in the NFL.
30:18They have the interior pieces with Seeler and Wilkins.Obviously, I have the edge-ratching depth now with Phillips, Agba, Bradley Chubb, the linebackers are good.Vic Fangio's here now.Why won't this?I mean, obviously the Jim Ramsey injury being the biggest factor here, but what do you think are the other impediments to this being a top 10 defense in the NFL this year?Well, that's the thing, Robert, there shouldn't be anything stopping this team.There's too much young talent at all three levels.You could argue that maybe their linebackers could be better, but Jerome Baker's a damn good inside linebacker.
30:52I love David Long.This is a David Long podcast.David Long was one of the value signings of free agency, most important signings of this free agency period.I don't know if it got enough attention because of the other additions that they made on that side of the ball.But David Long's an excellent player.They're fine at that level.It's far from an emergency or disaster.Obviously, you've got to look at health.
31:14You know, if they can't stay healthy.Bradley Chub has had a problem staying on the field.Zaving Howard obviously has had his soft tissue injuries over the past several seasons.If they can't stay healthy, then sure.But beyond that, man, they are so poised for a Super Bowl run.That's what made the Jaylon Ramsey injury sting so much for Dolphins fansbecause this was their window and they were attacking the hell out of itabout as aggressively as I think a fan base could ask of its team.
31:41You make the J-O-N-Remzy trade.You pay Vick-Fangio, whatever you're going to pay Vick-Fangio.They want to win some games this year.The Vick-Fangio defense, structurally, is about as far away in some areas as you can befrom what the dolphins were under the last couple of years.The Brian Flores regime and then, Boy, who was their defensive coordinatorlast year, who worked under Flores and they retained.They played single high safety more than almost any other team in football,
32:05heavy boxes more than almost any other team in football,that changes now.Now you're going to be playing with some of the latest boxes in the league, most likely.You're going to be playing with all those two high shells that we talked about.So there's going to be a transition for some of the most important pieces on this defense.Javad Holland and what he's asked to do as a communicator the way that he's seeing the game.So I think that's the other thing that maybe we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselvesand how quickly some of the guys in the back end are going to make that transition
32:30because they are playing a different style of defense this year than they played over the last few years.Robert, I think the perfect example of the difference in the shift in philosophy here,yesterday's practice.So, or not yesterday's practice, Friday's practice.Days of the week mean nothing anymore.They made nothing anymore.Time is not real.If you know me, it's an argument my girlfriend and I have all the time.
32:52Time is a made-up construct.She's going to hear this.Especially during training camp.Especially during training camp.I woke up this morning.We're talking about having this conversation on Sunday.I woke up this morning.I'm like, oh, it's Monday morning.
33:01Nope.It's mid-s Sunday.I have no idea what day of the week it is.I thought possibly like this could maybe even be like a Thursday.I was like, oh man, do I have radio today?Do I have to do this, that?No, it's extremely Sunday.Like I'm like, I'm going to walk my dog in the morning.
33:14We take the freight elevator.I'm like, ah, somebody's probably moving in.Nope, it's Sunday.Nobody's moving in.It's 9 a.m.I'll be okay.But during Friday's practice, they're indoors.This is the day after Jalen Ramsey went down, right?
33:27That is the best performance I have ever seen any defense play in practice, any team I haveever covered.Any team, dolphins, bills, Panthers, hell, even Clemson, I've never seen a defensive performance like that.We stopped counting at 12 sacks during team drills, Robert.And most of those were not blitzes, we're not, you know, heavy pressure.It was coverage sacks.It was covered sacks without Jalen Ramsey in that backfield because Vic Fangio's basically had a year, you know, hold up in a beach house in northern Florida,coming up and concocting new coverage schemes and new ways to attack an offense.
34:03So, like, this is one of the most innovative minds in NFL history.This is exactly what we would expect.And I think, you know, again, from a fan's perspective, you can take solace in the fact that there's not going to be any more cover zero blitzes on third and 15 anymore.You know, somebody actually asked Vic Van Gio his philosophy on blitzing.And Vic took a couple beats and he said, as frequently and necessary as I see fit.Yeah.So that doesn't sound like somebody who's just going to send the house every other.With the guys they now have, I assume it's not that frequently or necessary.
34:35And there are arguments, and they did this when, you know, this system was employed with the Rams,when you want to create one-on-ones when you have the personnel up front, that's fine.But I think the big blitzes and the overly aggressive mindset that we've seen from this team over the last couple of years,that's probably out the window.No, and they could do that back in the Josh Boyer, Brian Flores era, right?Because they had these two, you know, ball hawking cornerbacks in Xavier Howard and Byron Jones.and the now free agent, Byron Jones, to where they felt like, okay, we've got our guys on an island.If we can just make a quarterback, make a quick decision, try to fit a ball in a window that's a little tighter than he's comfortable with,
35:12we're confident our guys are going to get after it.And we saw the first, I think, year of that, Zavin Howard comes away with 10, 11 interceptions, and he's an all pro.They said, well, shoot, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.The league kind of caught up to that.We just see fewer teams playing that way.I mean, there aren't that many teams that are playing that level of man that are blitzing that often.But most of the defenses around the league now want to make teams earn it.Even New England has undergone some structural changes that have pushed them away from that sort of mindset.
35:39And it's not a surprise to see the dolphins want to adopt something that has been proven.It's a proven concept, this Fangio defense.And now they get the actual guy to be the one to come in and run it.Exactly.And they also, they didn't really have, they didn't have the guys to generate pressure without kind of manufacturing it artificially.They sure do now.Hawkins was still early in his career.Emmanuel Agba, he was good.
36:03You know, the first two years he was in Miami,I believe nine, nine and a half sacks in each season.Like, it's hard to complain about that kind of production.But beyond that, it was a series of kind of failed experiments.Shaq Lawson didn't really work out as an edgebrusher here.I think they had Kyle Van Nuoy here as well.Didn't necessarily work out.They haven't really had that.
36:21But like you said, they got them now.They got them now.Trade the first round pick and given $120 million to Bradley Chubb,last season. They've got Jalen Phillips who, I think a lot of people around the league that Italk to are really excited to see his development this year. They think he's right on the cuspof stardom. And he shows it in flashes. The numbers aren't going to jump off the page to you.Seven and a half sacks last year, I think eight and a half as a rookie. He set a team rookie record.You know, it's not T.J. Watt numbers. They're not Miles Garrett and Bosa Brother numbers.
36:52But if you watch the tape and you watch the film, he is consistently beating his man. He'sconsistently in the backfield and in position to make a play.And if you ask defensive guys who maybe don't have a lot of sacks,they'll all tell you, you keep banking plays like that,and the sacks are going to come.There's no doubt.And he's somebody that was a lot more disruptive last year.And his jump from his rookie year to last season was one of my favorite bits of
37:15progression from any player in the league.He was fun to watch last year.I talked to him a little bit today about some of that.He said that he put a little bit more muscle on from year one to year two.He was a lot stronger in his second season.And you could see that.He plays hard.and he's always played hard, but his ability to really hold up in some of those spots last year,
37:31especially when they would move him inside.But he's still winning with mostly athleticism and just pure effort last season.So I think his offseason plan was essentially just refinement, refinement, refinement.You know, can I get to that final step as an edge rusher where I can move beyond my physicalgifts in the way that I play and actually attack people with the plan?And I think that if he puts all that together this year, I'm 100% with you.This is a guy who could have the old sex this season, and I wouldn't be the leastbeen surprised. Not at all. There's two guys on this defense who, you know, if they, I expect,
38:02let me make it clear, I expect to make the Pro Bowl jump and who I wouldn't be stunned to evenmake the all pro jump. And that's Jaylon Phillips and then safety, Javan Holland. These are two young guys,same draft class. They've been, they were thrust into important roles as rookies. And you cantell they might be third year guys, but they're both, they play like vets, man. And Jaylon Phillips,look, I, one of my least favorite offseason activities when people are like,like so bored without football is when people like see NFL players working out and like posta shirtless big and like, oh my God, he looks ripped.No, man, if you walk into the locker room, this is what these guys look like.
38:39Jalen Phillips actually looks like freaking Hercules.He's huge.He is seriously put together.It's absolutely ridiculous.Him and Shub both.I mean, the reason, Chub was a top five pick and Jalen Phillips was a first round pick.And he's gotten even bigger and stronger since he came into the league.Javon Holland, it's funny that you mentioned those two guys.
38:55So there's two guys I talked to you today.And Javad Hall and we were talking about, again, some of the changes structurally on defense.And he said, I played in the system with a lot of these different concepts when I was in college.I played in the slot.So you have to kind of understand how all the pieces fit together.You're playing in quarters.It's a lot of pattern match zones.So even though these ideas are new for the defense as a whole, as really one of the main communicators in this system,
39:15he already feels comfortable with a lot of these ideas.And I think that if you can allow the rest of the group to hit the ground running because you're kind of fluent in these things already,that should give everybody else a little bit of a jump start.Yeah, I agree. And then if you just look at the history of safeties within this Fangio system, you look at Eddie Jackson up there in Chicago, you look at Justin Simmons in Denver. And I think that Javon Holland is that next man up. Again, we've seen it. John Johnson got paid in this defense. A lot of guys have looked really good playing the style of defense. If you've got the right type of safety, you've got a guy who understands how to read the field and kind of it's almost like a beautiful mind watching him, you know, watching him roaming coverage. He just always seems to be in the exact.spot that he needs to be in. He's a willingtiler. He's a ball hawk.His closing speed is better than youwould expect. For somebody that, you know,
40:03didn't come into the NFL as like afreak athlete,he's not like a 4-2, like, oh my God,look at this guy. But production,the production's always been there. He got his handson the ball in college all the time and he'sbeen that sort of player in the NFL. I don't think that's an accident.Not at all.
40:27A lot of conversation before even gettingto the quarterback and it's time now. Okay.on offense, there are so many reasons to be optimistic about what this team is going to look like after last season.And I went back and I was wondering, you know, what did they look like in the back half of the season when too was healthy?Where there's some things that teams did to them that were kind of maybe uncovered sort of a deeper issue with the structure of the offense.And even going back watching three or four games, there wasn't a ton of that.You know, some teams were getting a little bit more physical with them near the line of scrimmonage trying to disrupt some of that timing.the Chargers did that pretty
41:01into the Chargers did that pretty consciouslythe bills played more man against themthat other teams had so there's a little bit moreaggressiveness to some of those game plansbut talking to Frank Smith their offensive coordinator todayit seems like they really when they look back at those gamessee more missed opportunities than they seeas anything fundamentally wrong with the way that they were playing
41:19offense and it's fair there's a ball that getscaught up in the lights against the Chargersthat would have been a touchdown there's a miss throwin a couple of those games there's a holding callThey get to touchdown call back against the bills.I mean, their offense was three, four, five plays away from, I think, us collectivelybeing a little bit less worried about them than most people probably are.So if we can concede that, that, you know, they're probably going to be pretty good
41:44based on the coaches and the receiving talent that they have.Is the only real question here whether the quarterback can stay healthy?Because I think a lot of people are trying to boil it down to that.I mean, that is the biggest concern.And I understand what Frank says.and obviously he watches the film a lot more intently than I do with a lot more context than I do to be able to identify these missed opportunities.But like that's kind of, it's kind of football.Yeah, it is.
42:09Every game, you can essentially boil down to three, four plays.You know, wow, this happened differently if this did, if this happened, if this didn't happen.I thought the 49ers game last year was really like the epitome of that.Like to have read the field, he read that difference pretty well, especially considering who he was playing.he was just off.He missed four or five throws in that game.And then there's a tip-all interception, but there's stuff on the field.Like, there were, there plays to be made, even in games where they struggled.
42:38And that's something that I didn't necessarily expect to see when I went back and watched them.But I think that's a reasonable conclusion to come to.And I think what was so, I guess, disappointing about how last season ended was that we'd never really got to see them work their way through that issue.So that's the last, like, the Buffalo game is probably the best example, right?And then, I mean, the Green Bay game, he throws three picks.He averages 10.3 yards an attempt or whatever.There were no issues with the way they moved the ball in that game.They just turned the ball over too many times.
43:07Yeah, and I was even, I mean, as every Dolphins fan, I'm almost positive,just said listening to this.He was concussed through the second half of that game, which is a problem in its own, right?Yes.But even before that, I think his stats were a little bit propped up by the 84-yard,catching run to Waddle, which was a good throw.It was a good throw.Don't get me wrong, but it was a slant.
43:28And every quarterback should be able to hit that until it hits it fairly frequently.But yet, we just, we never really got to see them as a whole because it wasn't just, it wasn't just to us fault.You know, they had issues on the offensive line.Toronto Armstead was banged up.I wanted to see Mike McDaniel coached his way out of a hole, you know, during a slide.A lot of that season, especially that heart of the season, they were riding high, right?I mean, they start up.They're three and all.
43:56They were rolling.They were in a row because their quarterback was hurt.Everybody understood that.And then they got them back and they were right back to it.The most exciting team in the league.So we saw what Mike was when everything was sweet.I wanted to see him coach his way out of adversity.It's something they really pride themselves on here.
44:12If you walk in the locker room, one of the first things you see on the wall is adversity is opportunity.So we didn't really get to see the opportunity for them to work the way out of a struggle.Like the plays were thereThe players are thereThe scheme is the schemeYou can only be so badWhen you have Tyree Kill and Chalin Waddle to throw toBut and the guys call him the place
44:33And what they're doingAnd the coaches staff that's in placeBut you're rightLike as simple as it soundsTheThe main issue on the wall right nowIs can Tua stay healthyIt's not something he's ever done
44:46Over the course of a full seasonSince he's been a proSo if he doesIf he plays 17 games this yearIf he's around for every single game that they play,what are the other reasons potentiallythat this wouldn't be one of the three or four best offenses in the week?That offensive line still has a couple of question marks on it.
45:03Connor Williams, he's back in training camp after holding out in the spring for a new contract.He obviously wants a deal sign, but there's some in-house guys who need money before that.Let's just be honest here.But he was a good center last year.Toronto Armside is obviously one of the best left tackles in the league when he is healthy.But over the past several years, we have seen that he's,is going to miss two, three, maybe four games a year.He's on the populace now.
45:26He's on the puffless now from a knee procedure that he had in the offseason.Like he is, he will give you elite level left tackle play when he is on the field.There's no doubt about that.He is, you have to plan for him not being on the field, which is why they go and signan Isaiah win and sign as Cedric Obwehy this offseason.But then it's, and then Robert Hunt is one of the better right guards that people don'treally talk about.I think he's more famous because of Thursday night game a couple years ago.
45:54And he picks up a tip ball and runs it into the end zone.Didn't count.But, like, he was famous for any time.We like to see big guys.Of course.That's anything you could want out of that guy, especially somebody like him who is a big guy.Yeah.And it's one of those.
46:08We've been in how many press boxes in our career, man.Like, you don't cheer.It's not hard not to cheer.It is hard not to like, not to just smile and just say yes or say, go.come on like I don't care who what team it is like you just love to see wacky plays like that and that'sexactly what what happened that night but beyond his his yard after catch skills he is a talentedoffensive lineman those three solid yeah solid it's the other two that are big question marks soleom ikenberg there at left guard he has played every position on the damn offensive line except i think
46:43maybe center probably actually that's a lie because he has played center so like it's i was willingI gave him a pass his rookie year because they just couldn't decide where they wanted to play.The offensive line has been a mess here, not just with the personnel.How many offensive line coaches, how many different systems, how many different voices in these guys' ears,I think it's totally fair to give those guys a pass for his rookie years and then maybe somewhat into last year.But now with both of those guys, with him and with Austin Jackson at right tackle, you've got to find out that this has to be the year for multiple reasons.their window, but also if this isn't the year, then they have to start thinking about alternatives.Exactly, exactly.
47:22And, you know, they did, to their credit, they have contingency plans this year.Publicly, they've obviously been supportive of Liam.They've been very supportive of Austin Jackson.But money talks, right, and they didn't pick up Austin Jackson's fifth year option.That shows right there.They know he has not proved.How could you?He hasn't played.
47:41Yeah.Like, they think he can.They believe it can.That's fine.That's fine.but they're not going to pay. They're not going to pay for that belief.And then when, so I mentioned when, I mentioned O'Bwayhi, both of them play right tackle.If Austin Jackson is hurt or is ineffective, as again, he's been for most of his career.
47:59To his credit, he was good in training camp last year and he got hurt in the first game of the season and never really got back on track.He came back, I think after six games or so, immediately hurt the same ankle and then we didn't see him again.That's a tough break.if he can build on that this year, he should be fine.He should be a serviceable starter.And then in Eichenberg's case, who in terms of pass block win rate,has been one of the worst offensive linemen in football over the past two years.I am talking if I don't remember the number on top of my head, how many are eligible,
48:30but out of like 300, he's like 295.Like it's not very far from the bottom.They signed Dan Feeney from, I believe, the Jets this offseason.He is a capable starter.He is a capable interior offensive lineman.You can play a little guard, can play.center as well if they need.Yeah, and it's talking to people here today, it just seems like they want to bet on the
48:50continuity.They've invested in these guys.Mike McPherson-Rown pick, Austin Jackson was the first-round pick.We've put them in no position to succeed with all of the changes over their first coupleyears.If they can have two years in the system, same voices, new offensive line coach this year, butMike McDaniel, the same kind of foundation offensively, is that enough to get them wherethey want to go?
49:12It's a risky bet.it is a risky bet to where you are not bringing in a replacement for Liam Eichenberg,you're bringing in a contingency plan in Dan Fien.The fact that among all the other big swings they made this year,they did not think we need a definitive upgrade here.I think that's the one spot where I'd be like, ah, man, I just can't help but think about thatbecause you look at some of those games I talked about during the back half last year,Ikeberg didn't play in a lot of those games.
49:37He was hurt.Robert Jones plays in those games, and you think about, when I went back,I wanted there to be these interesting reasons why they were struggling.And then consistently, it's like, well, Morgan Fox just won three pass-war snaps in a row,and he's blowing these plays up.And those weak points about me on the offensive line, they're not the most interesting things to talk about with this team,but they're important.And I think that's the one thing that's got to be lingering in the back of your mind about why they might fall short of expectations beyond the quarterback's health.
50:03It's so frustrating because it is a position group that this organization just simply hasn't been able to get right.really throughout Chris Greer's tenure as general manager.And like, for the record, I like the job that Chris Greer has done here as a whole.You love an aggressive general manager.I think that mid-round, his mid-round draft picks, you know, we'll call it second to fifth, are generally excellent.Like, there's a lot of guys, you look at Brandon Jones, you look at Rayquan Davis, you look at Rob Hunt, you look at Jerome Baker, look at Xavier Howard, Javon Holland, like these guys he's finding after round one.A little dicey resume in the first round.But again, one draft contributes a lot of that.
50:44Yeah, it does.When you have three first round picks, you expect a monster hall.And you didn't pick up the fifth year on two of those.But I'm getting a little bit off track here.They have spent the resources.They have allocated resources to their offensive line.It just hasn't paid out.They've spent, I think it's five top 100 picks on offensive line since Greer's been here.
51:06One of them is currently started.Yeah, and then you pay a big money left tackle.You pay a center and free agency.A lot of resources have gone into that position.They're trying, but it's close.You have three.It's better than not having three.You have three who you know you can believe in.
51:21It's the other two that you really got to.You're holding your breath a little bit.But, I mean, you said it's a risky bet earlier.Super Bowl windows aren't very wide.It's when you're not having to pay a quarterback.Like, this is the time.So that was where I was going to take us next.in my mind, there are as wide a range of outcomes for Tua as really any quarterback in the league this year.
51:45Let's say he stays healthy for the entire season, and this ends up being one of the best two, three offenses in football.He might be in line for pretty big extension head after this year.If he gets hurt again, there's probably a world where they're replacing him next spring.Would you say that both of those things are potentially on the table?Both of those things are on the table.They did pick up his fifth-year option.So, like, I mean, because we don't have to question his talent.Like, we've seen the ability, especially like if we're not talking about him in a vacuum,
52:14we're talking about him playing within Mike May Daniel's system with these receivers.Like, you can say he's propped up, but the fact is, like, he has these, he has this talent around him.When things go right, he is one of the better pastors in the league.He's one of the most accurate pastors in the league.We saw that on multiple occasions.We have not seen him last an entire season.for a guy like Toronto Armstead at left tackle, you don't like that he's going to miss a couplegames, but you deal with it.
52:41Your quarterback cannot be a guy who you say, ah, you know, he's good, but like he's going to missa game or two, he's going to miss three.It doesn't work like that.So if he can't get through the season healthy, then, yeah, there is a very real world.Depending on how much of the season he misses, you know, if the season tanks and for some reasonthey are in the May or, you know, they're not going to get the number one pick.But, you know, they're in a, they're in position where they can move up and grab a guy.Well, that obviously would be, that's ideal because that's how you somehow absorb a $21 million salary and move on from a guy and pay somebody else.
53:15That's probably unlikely.And I think that's what makes this difficult.You pick up the option, which I totally understand why they would.But you're already over next year's cap.You can make some moves, move on from Ogba and do a couple more tweaks here and there to figure out the finances.But it would be difficult to have a $21 million quarter.on your roster that isn't your starting quarterback with the rest of this core.And that's why I feel like the kneel that they're going to have to try to thread here is
53:38very, very thin.And that's why this season is so, so important.It is.And, you know, I got to give to his credit, who, you know, for the record here, like, I thinkis, I think this is their franchise guy.Like, I think his injury history, while a little bit concerning because of how many years now,this is three in a row where he's missed at least the game due to injury, I think whenhealthy, he's a franchise guy. Like, this is the guy. I'm higher on Tua than a lot of people
54:05outside of South Florida. People are going to say, that's me, you know, sipping the culata,but it is what it is, man. Like, I've seen it. There have been cases last year where he had to beperfect. He had to be, he had to carry them. And he did. I didn't seem falter in those scenarios.But you can't deny the concern about his ability to stay on the field. Like, it's, you can't,You can't commit $50 million, which is probably going to be the number that, you know, people are starting at.That's just how a quarterback, whether he's worth it or not, that's where the quarterback market is headed.You can't pay that to a guy who, you know, can't protect himself or hasn't protected himself.And to, to his credit, he has taken steps this offseason, not just to work on his game, but to work on his body.
54:50He's gained about five, seven pounds of muscle.If you go close to him, you see him up close.you can tell like he looks a little bigger uh he's training in jujitsu to kind of like trainre-center his his his gravity learn how to distribute his weight on the way to the ground you knowevery concussion last year he's whipped back yeah his head hits ground this is why he's hoping this is whathe's hoping to solve by by by taking those courses like he is he knows what he knows what time it ishe knows he has to he has to make it through this season and that is really the only thing keepingpeople from universally saying, okay, yeah, this guy's worth the money.
55:27Only thing keeping people from saying that, potentially the only thingkeeping this team from being a real, fully blown Super Bowl contender come January, February.Marcel Luis Jacques, always good to see you, my friend.Really appreciate you visiting with us.Please tell people where they can read, listen, hear you here over the course of the season.If you're a Dolphitz fan and don't know, Marcel, I don't know what you're doing.But even if you're not.Yeah, real easy, four letters, ESPN.com.
55:53go ahead and save the Miami Dolphins team page, man.That's where all my work goes.You can follow me on Twitter as well.Marcel underscore LJ.I'm also Marcel ESPN on both Instagram and Threads,if Threads is going to make it through this season.Really appreciate it time, buddy.Good to see you.
56:07Good to see you, man.All right, guys.That's all we have.Thank you so much to Marcel.Thank you so much to D'Amico Ryans.Appreciate all of you guys for listening.We will be back tomorrow with the annual show that we do around MikeSando's quarterback tier.
56:23It's great to have Mike back.Very excited to chat with him about this year's version.A lot of interesting stuff to dig into with the voting with the list and the hierarchy associated with the league's most important position.So please come back and check out that discussion tomorrow with Mike a little bit later in the week.We will be back with Nate.Very excited about that doing some of our preseason shows that we've done in the past.We do top 10 offenses on Friday.And on Wednesday this week, we're going to be chatting with our good buddy.
56:53Bill Barnwell from ESPN.So a lot of good stuff coming to your guys' way.That's all we have for now.Appreciate you guys listening.We'll talk to you soon.This was the Athletic Football Show.
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