The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - A historic NFL moment & playing Roster Doctor with Lindsay Jones & Nate Tice

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

Which NFL rosters have improved the most headed into 2021? Which teams worry us the most? And which ones fall into our "What the Hell?" category? Nate Tice and Lindsay Jones both bring team names to the table as Robert Mays leads the crew through their 2021 Roster Doctor segment assessing the best and worst rosters in the NFL.SPOILERS BELOW FOR THE FULL LISTBest RostersBucs, Packers, Chiefs, Browns, Bills, PackersWorst RostersTexans, Lions, Jags, Panthers, EaglesBest Offensive Depth ChartsChiefs, Bucs, Browns, CowboysSneaky Good OffensesRams, Vikings, Patriots, WashingtonOffenses that Worry UsPanthers, Bears, SteelersBest Defensive Depth ChartsRavens, Bucs, Broncos, SteelersSneaky Good DefensesWashington, Packers, GiantsDefenses that Worry UsTitans, Cowboys, RaidersBest Position GroupsWashington’s Front 4, Bucs WRs, Browns RBs, Titans WRs, Patriots TEs, Browns O-Line, Steelers Defensive Front, Cowboys WRsMost Improved Position GroupsBrowns Secondary, Chargers O-Line“What the Hell?” Position GroupsBroncos QBs, Steelers O-Line, Panthers O-Line, Giants O-Line Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today. We're going to do a roster reset. Again, May, June, we've done a lot of this kind of stuff, taking a step back, looking at where the league is. This is a useful exercise.

We're going to go through some of the best rosters in the league, the worst rosters in the league, some position groups that we thought were worth highlighting in both ways good and bad. And to do that, I am joined by Lindsay Jones and Nightty, Lindsay, thank you so much for being back with us. It's always good to chat with you. How are you doing? I am great.

I am finishing up some fun projects that are going to run in July, some of these really fun off-season things. So this roster reset is kind of right in line with that. So I'm excited for you guys to see what I've been working on. And I'm really excited to be back with you guys today. Nate, how are you doing? I'm doing well. I think that was a pre-show you said,

we're using all our bullets and like, or I've used all my bullets and everything. like that's how I feel with this like putting this little podcast together. It's like, okay, this is just a got one gone of everything else I got. Okay, which is we'll just get it all out right now. It's June 22nd. We are post mini camp pre-training camp.

So I've talked to a bunch of, not a bunch, but I just sent emails like, you know, are you around to chat? You know, so and so, whether it's a GM or a coach or an agent or whatever. No one's around. Like everyone is gone. Everyone's in Vegas or they're in Europe or they're, I sent an email to a team last week

And they're like, yeah, no one's in the building for the next like three weeks. It's like, okay, well, we're officially at that part of the off season. So that's why I still think it's worth it to look back a little bit and set the table for what's going to happen in training camps, some of these camp battles that we'll talk about. So just taking a step back and looking at some of these rosters, what we're going to do today. Before we do that, though, yesterday was a monumental day in the National Football League, a day that I don't know if I never thought it would come. but I didn't know it would come yesterday. I thought it would be a little bit longer. And when you're around the sport for as long as we have been,

me and Lindsay and Nate, obviously you in a different capacity. I was at Mizzou right before Michael Sam came into the NFL. So this has been a topic of conversation for a long time. And yesterday, Carl Nassab of the Raiders, became the first active NFL player on a roster to announce that he's gay. And it was kind of a shocking moment in a good way.

I was on the L yesterday in Chicago, go into a Cubs game. And I was like, wow. Like, that just happened. Lindsay, what was your reaction when you saw him announce it, the way that he did it? I mean, how did you kind of process everything yesterday? Yeah, I mean, I'm similarly to you where it was kind of like, oh, wow, okay, that, that just happened because it wasn't like a big announcement, you know? It wasn't like, you know, front page of the New York Times.

It wasn't, you know, a huge article in out sports. It wasn't as special on ESPN. And that's how I kind of always assumed that the next player or the first player to come out, active player to come out in the NFL, like that would happen. That would be something that was very orchestrated. And instead it was so organic. It was so authentic. And it was, you know, it was a Monday afternoon during Pride Month.

It was clearly something that Carl Nassab has thought about the way that he wanted to do it. It's something that probably had been weighing on him for a while. And he just, you just watched that video and he just felt, it looked like he felt free. and unburntiness to it. Yeah. Yeah. And just like kind of the way that you hope a coming out video would be for anybody who wants to, you know, announce something like that about themselves.

And, you know, I'm happy for him. I was really encouraged by the response that we saw around the NFL. You know, I definitely held my breath about what are the Raiders going to do? Because they had a massive misstep on social media when the George Floyd verdict came out when Mark Davis took over the Twitter account himself. And I held my breath and said, oh, God. And instead, what you saw was the perfect tone. It just a retweet that said, we're proud of you, Carl, a heart.

You saw that from around the league. You saw a statement from Roger Goodell. And I don't want to be naive and think that this is all going to be positive responses. I'm sure in the depths of the Internet, I have not read the responses. I have not gone into the mentions of all the tweets that I sent yesterday. It got retweeted around a lot by some like people with very large platforms. So I'm sure there's some really disgusting stuff in the mentions. I know that stuff is out there.

know that there are going to be people within the NFL universe who are going to say the wrong thing, are going to do the wrong thing, or going to act the wrong way in response to this, we haven't seen that yet. So I've been very heartened about kind of the like, finally, I'm so happy for, like, I'm happy for you. I'm happy for this for the NFL. So I've been encouraged by that. And, you know, we'll, we'll see what happens kind of moving forward if this is, you know, a watershed moment. If he inspires other football players to come out now, if this is something that will,

you know, this is something that we'll be talking about 20 years from now, 30 years from now when gay NFL players is no longer a notable story, we'll look back on this day. And at Carl Nassab and his courage is kind of really a landbreaking moment. A groundbreaking moment. Nate, you spent time in buildings in locker rooms. Do you feel like we've gotten to a place where

this won't be a topic in a locker room where he'll just be able to kind of exist as he would have before, where it isn't that big of a deal when it comes to how he'll interact with teammates, all that other stuff. Because I'm sure that has weighed on him and the timing and when he decided to make this decision. Yeah. And I mean, that's the thing we kind of understate with some of these guys. It's not only just their teammates and everything, but also the families. Their upbringing, all these things. These are human beings.

They have a lot. That's not just their job, you know, not just football. But what I've learned with locker rooms and not just any level high school, college, especially the NFL, is that guys just respect you if you just do your job. I mean, if you're a good guy, good teammate, who cares? Like, I mean, you can be any walk of life. That's actually one of the beautiful things I think of sports is that people from all types of upbringings, all types of walks of life can come together. And it's awesome. And it's really cool.

People just put it aside. I think it does. Like Lindsay said, I do love how. natural it was or organic it was. I shouldn't say natural, but yeah, casual it was. And I think that was honestly the best way to go about it because it's like, hey, this is my life. This is, this is a thing about me and I want you to know. And I, I love that. I think it's just great. I think it's just, it's going to always take time. Some people just want to go and they don't want to, they want to make it understated. I get what they're trying to do. But really, what's, what's appreciate this. It should be a

positive moment, not just sports, but just like American life. And I really think that's cool. I really do. And like you said, Lindsay, or and Robert, both you guys have said this, is that in years from now, it can be a watershed moment, but as it just becomes more and more accepted just by everybody, it's going to be a really cool thing. I think that I think more people are going to speak out and more people are going to be positive about this because they're going to realize, oh, there's more people that are gay or, you know, that might be different than what I thought that. And I think it's cool that people are going to be accepting of that and speaks highly this younger generation. I think they're coming up that are more like that in their ways of life.

I think it's great. I think the one important thing, too, is. when we're having these conversations and when you're reading stories about Carl Nassib is to remember that he's not the first gay player in the NFL by any means. He is certainly not the only active player who is gay in the NFL. But this is a monumental moment in that he's the first one who has come out publicly and a guy who is expected to be on a roster. So I just, I think it's important context. There are, you know, a number of men who came before him, whether that was, you know, Michael Sam, who was the first openly gay player drafted.

into the NFL in 2014. He didn't end up making a roster. And, you know, I think it was really complicated. And I feel like he broke a ton of ground and doesn't get enough credit for what he endured and what he went through to Ryan Russell, you know, former defense event who came out as bisexual, was intending to get back in the league. Hasn't been resigned. I think the last time he played was 2017 to dozens, at least, probably, right, of men who kind of have suffered in silence and who maybe never came out. So, you know, I think that's really important. I would like everybody to listen. We recorded a podcast today.

I was on the Culture Calculus podcast, hosted by Kavitha Davidson. And we had Wade Davis, who was a former NFL player who came out after he retired. He was the NFL's, he actually was the first LBGTQ advisor to the NFL around the time that Michael Sam had come out and was coming into the NFL. So it was a really interesting conversation, got into a lot of really in-depth, you know, topics surrounding this and inclusion and diversity and just so much. So I encourage you guys to check that out if you want to have like a longer, more nuanced conversation about this.

Let's say, this is the culture calculus podcast through the athletic. And this shouldn't be the most important thing. But I think that all the things he said yesterday were just so beautiful and so right on. Like every single beat of what he said from him saying, I hope this doesn't have to happen in the future. I hope that other people do this, it doesn't have to be an announcement.

But right now it probably does. And him saying that I felt compelled to do this in part because visibility matters. And if one person out there looks at what he just did and finds strength and finds courage in it to come out or just being able to see yourself in someone else and see yourself in a world that typically this hasn't happened in a world where this hasn't happened at all, there's real power in that. And I just think that what this could mean for someone else out there is just so beautiful. And that's why I'm so glad that it happened. I hope that eventually this isn't necessary, but right now it really is an incredibly powerful moment. And it was so cool to see.

So, all right. I want to start just big picture at the top here. And this is a pretty simple question, but I think we're going to get some interesting answers. Nate, what do you think is the best roster in the NFL after the 2021 off season? I think it's a defending champion, Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Where to go on a limb there, Arne. Oh, wow.

I know. Really. I tried. I tried, too. I was like, I was trying to find some other answer I could give, but man, you just look at this roster and I kind of, because we have other stuff we want to talk about. So I don't know how deep of a dive you want me to go in here. But offensively, defensively, every unit, there's no real weak unit, maybe the running back,

but really, that's not too bad. Even that's better than it was last year. That's not too bad. They got Gio Bernard, who's a great fit for what they want to do, you know, and it's like, okay. And I was like, okay, look at their D.Bs a little bit. Nope, D.Bs are getting into one. Winfield looks like a star.

Carlton Davis came on in the second half of the year. It's like, okay, linebackers, they probably have the best pair in the NFL. I mean, really, if you look at it and they pair and they have great synergy together. Okay, up front. Oh, yeah, they're getting older, but guess what? They just drafted a first rounder who has some great stuff, you know, great metrics and everything. And Joe Tryon, they have Vita Vea, who is a star at the nose tackle position. JPP just had a great playoff.

So it's like, and then they have Sue. And then they have Shaq Barrett. It's like, okay, so that's just defense. And then we just could talk about offense too. But it's that entire roster is just laden with stars and impact players and even kind of super role players that complete teams. But they're already just good players too. They're not even limited.

So it's it's fantastic. I just don't want to take away everything I talk about their offense until later. I went into this thinking, is there someone else? Is there another option or is it just going to be the box? And when you look through it all, it definitely is just the bucks because so many other teams who would have been competitors for this spot and previous years. Saints, for example, they cut costs. Most of these teams have lost talent. The bucks lost no talent, and they added people. The fact that now you have depth with Tryon when you

had JPP and Shaq Barrett playing some of the highest snap counts of any edge players in the league. Drafting Haynesie in the third round to give themselves some interior offensive line deck. The pass catchers have, they're superstar pass catchers. They've all pro pass catchers. But Tyler Johnson can play. They have so many guys on that team or just the fact that O'Don Jay Howard is back on this team. He's the third tight end. They have three legit wide tight ends. It's like it's insane. It's absolutely insane. And now with G.O. Bernard, being that past catching option at running back, not only are there 22 starting guys good and better than anyone else than the NFL, but they do have depth other places.

Whether this team wins a Super Bowl again is dependent on so many different factors. I think health is the number one thing. They were the healthiest team in the league last year, according to adjusted games lost. They probably will not be as healthy this year. but they can sustain injuries and are set up to sustain injuries better than pretty much every other roster in the league as it stands right now. So I think they are clearly number one. Lindsay, I assume you also have them at the top. Yeah, I did have them at number one.

And I was going to just, like, add in the one thing. You mentioned Winfield already, Nate. They have some really young players who are going to be even better, like Tristan Worf's, you know, was an all pro basically as a rookie. So like he's only going to get better. And, you know, I guess the one, you know, have a 800-year-old quarterback who's going to just keep playing forever. So their coaching staff is intact.

Like we can include that in the roster calculus here in terms of, you know, how good they are top to bottom. And they just kept getting better as the season went on last year. You know, I think we, a lot of these pieces were there early and it just, you know, it was so new. So much of it took a long time to kind of mesh. And they really started rolling at the right time. And, you know, they have stars at every single layer of their defense. obviously the skill position players we're going to get to. I would say the other teams that I threw in there.

I was going to ask you who's at the top of the second tier. Yeah. So I would include the Packers, very high if Aaron Rogers returns to Green Bay. Without Aaron Rogers, I think it's a really good roster with a huge question of quarterback, obviously. I mean, we talked about this when we did our MVP non-QB builder on MVP draft, just knowing how many Packers, the three of us collectively all drafted, how really good that roster is. Then the other ones that I threw on there were the bills. I think top to bottom,

they might have the best roster in the AFC. They might not have the very best at any of the positions, but there isn't really a huge weakness on their roster. The Chiefs, I mean, the Chiefs, you know, they fixed their biggest issue from 2020, some big defensive questions that leaves that, that keeps me from making them the best one. And then the Browns, right? I mean, I think the Browns, And I'm going to get to some more stuff about the Browns later on. But I really like their roster. Nate, would you say anybody else belongs in the conversation there? Are those the teams that you would throw out?

That was about the same as me. I had chiefs. Really, my number one was chiefs get a shout out, but their front, they're both other fronts need guys. And it's so hard for me to say you have the best roster. Your question marks are front and, you know, how are you going to stop the pass and all that. So that was hard for me. But, you know, they still do have a lot of good pieces as well.

And yeah, but yeah, basically everyone with Lindsay said right there, actually the Broncos have a really good roster. but they have the QB issue. That is the one that I assume we will mention them a couple different times. I'm sure we will. I'm sure we will. But the Broncos roster overall is pretty good of the 21 other starting spots. I think that that second tier right now is comprised of the Packers, the Bills, and the Browns.

I just think if you look at it, the chiefs, we'll talk about this. Their high-end talent is incredible. But in my opinion, they have more glaring holes at certain parts of their depth chart than either Green Bay, Buffalo or Cleveland does. I honestly think top to bottom, if you're just looking at 22 guys plus some depth, the Browns have the second best roster in the league, in my opinion. The quarterback questions in terms of where he stacks up to other people. So I'm not saying they're the second best team in the league. But if you're looking at all the spots that need to be filled, I think they've done the best job of filling out that roster. So there are some questions, but that's how I would stack it up.

I'd probably go, bucks, Browns, bills, Packers, if I was doing it. But I think the Packers and the bills are probably interchangeable. All right. Let's go the other way. Right now, as it currently stands, Nate, who do you think has the worst roster in the NFL? Okay. Yeah, even if even a few is there, I mean, the Texans are really fucking bad, man. It's almost like an experiment.

It's almost an experiment on the idea of assembling a football team. Who would be a favorite? The O2 Texans or a 2021 Texans? Expansion Texas or so here's my thing the offense with Watson if Watson was there the offense would be passable yeah like Brandon Cooks is a good player the offensive line like tonsils really good they have other serviceable players up front they have 17 running back so they could probably figure out one of those guys to be a starter I think the offense would be fine it probably wouldn't be worse than it was last year no and even last year it was

above average. Yes. Because their quarterback is so good. Yeah. The defense is about as bad as an NFL defense could probably be. Who is the best player on the Texans defense, Lindsay? I try to find something good at Ty. The only two names I said. Yeah, Merciless or Cunningham?

I mean, Cunningham became defending one of the past. So it's kind of like. It's a brutal situation. It's bad. I mean, they are in full scale rebuild mode, which is why the tradeout for Nico Collins still is one of the more curious things that's happened in the last six months. But anyway. I think the Texans are clearly number one.

Lindsay, is there anyone else that's in the running for you outside of Houston? Yeah, I mean, I think the bottom tier teams, the lions, the Jags, the Panthers are probably just full roster-wise. But I still, I think there's a gap. They got some pieces. I have one. Okay. Who is yours, Nate? That's still that you think is in there?

The Eagles. The Eagles are pretty bad. Yeah. And they have some nice players. and the players that I still think are decent, but they're all 30 or injured. That's my thing is the Eagles are, they're hanging by a thread. It's a very fragile situation. I don't think the Eagles have less roster talent than a team like the Jags, a team like the Jets,

a team like even Carolina. But I do think that they're far more rudderless than any of those teams because they're expensive and they're not going anywhere. In terms of pure roster talent, I think they have a little bit more than those teams. I think the Lions are in this conversation. there are aspects of the Lions roster that are actually pretty good. Like, their front with Brockers, Flowers, and O'Quara could actually be pretty good. But other areas in that team, like the receiving corps is very much in flux.

The offensive line is good, though. So that's why I would say that the Jags are still probably worse. The Jags spent a lot of money on their secondary. I don't know how much better their defense is. Their defense is still a huge question mark. Yeah. I was hoping to recognize more names. I think the Jets got a lot better this offseason.

I mean to talk about the Jets a couple of times on this podcast, I think. Okay. Yeah, no, I agree. No, but, uh, yeah, Jaguars, yeah, I agree with the same thing. I was, I was, I was looking at some of the names. I was like, who did they sign again? Because I was hoping to, like, one of these names would really trigger. Like, I was like, oh, yeah, I watched that guy, but I was like, oh, that's right.

It's that dude. Other than Shaq, you know. Yeah, it's fine. I mean, they, they, they, but for the most part, they still are, I think their offense to be pretty good in year one with Lawrence, but I think their defense is a huge question mark. So a lot of the usual suspects in that group. Okay.

talk about some good stuff here. Lindsay, who do you think has the best offensive depth chart in the NFL as it currently stands? So I do think, like, we're just talking like best, I can't get away from the chiefs. You don't have to. That is probably the right answer. Which is fine. I think, I mean, I still think there are some questions on the offensive line. The Kyle Long injury during OTAs is a big question mark because that's one of the spots that they're going to try to figure out. But look, they have. I think the best like overall collection of skill position players plus the best quarterback. You know, you give me Travis Kelsey, give me Tyree Kill, give me Patrick Mahomes, give me Orlando

Brown. Like I, it's a pretty, it's a pretty good group. So I think just like for 11 guys, I'll, I'll take that 11. Nate, do you agree? I actually went with the bucks still. That's why I was kind of holding before I got to gush about their offense too. But I just think top to bottom. I mean, the receiver room we already talked about, like, not only their top three, but also having super role players and Tyra Johnson and Scotty Miller. Scottie Miller is a legit good player, even though it's like it was started as a joke. He's, he's legitimately a good player. The O line, I think Donovan Smith is above average. Like, I don't think he's good, good, but, you know, more than good enough. Yes, good enough to win with. Exactly. And then, but also Marpet and Jensen

inside, you know, and I think, you know, of course, worse. And then the tight end group is hilariously good. We already talked about the running backs, but that's the runnerback position. They have enough role that they can get by with it. They just want a championship with worse with, you know, LaShawn McCoy getting third down touches. So I think, I think with, and I think just right now, I think top to bottom, I just love the entire offense right there. So the thing about the Chiefs offensive line to me that's interesting is there's so many bodies.

The outcome for the best five could be really good. I think there's a lot of different sorts of outcomes. So let's say left to right, it ends up being brown, tuny, Humphrey, let's say, Trace Smith and Mike Remmer's. And the two rookies end up being pretty good. Would you put the chiefs then ahead of the Bucks? Yeah. The line is your question.

What I'm getting at is your question. The line is my question. Mike Remmers is my question. But it's also, okay, so you have Kelsey, you have Hill. Don't get me wrong. Okay, two absolute stars. All right. But then if you look at the Bucks receivers, they have three,

two legit, all pro guys and another pro bowl guy. I mean, Antonio Brown is still very good. Like, I mean, on the other team, people get fed touches. Okay, so, I mean, that's three right there. And then you got tight ends. And then, okay, and then the quarterback is still, it's not Mahomes. Mahomes is his own tier. But, you know, very good as Brady is what the level he's playing at.

Yeah, I think it's just like, okay. The receiving options and the secondary receiving options, that's what put them down in tier for me. They were trying to go get juju. I mean, outside of Hill and Kelsey, there aren't many guys that you're excited about there. I think they have less depth in those spots than a team like the Bucks does. I also think top to bottom, the Browns have a more complete offensive roster than the Chiefs do. Because if you, they have arguably the best offensive line in the league, which we'll get into.

They have easily the best running back to him in the league. It's not even close. Baker is whatever. And I think the receiving options now, it was so drastic last year when you watched them at the end of the season, how much their lack of speed dictated how teams could defend them. And now when you have Beckham there and Schwartz possibly, the complexion of their skill position players, looks a lot different with those two guys than it did at the end of last season. So I think those are the teams right up there.

And the other team that I think is right there is Dallas. I think the Cowboys are absolutely in this conversation. I mean, their receiving core is fantastic. Their line is, still has some questions, but in terms of who is going to fill those other two spots. And obviously Smith and Zach Martin are getting a little bit older. But I think that they have more tackle depth than they've had in you. years with that coming back. I think that group is really, really good.

And the other team I would mention because I think they have a chance to kind of make a little bit of a jump depending on how some of the rookies play out and some of this stuff, I think the best case for Baltimore is really, really good. There is far more downside with them than some of these other groups just because you're relying on some younger players. But if they catch a couple breaks, I think the Ravens' offense has a chance to be awesome with Bateman and Watkins. Maybe Ben Cleveland ends up being a starting guard.

Like just some of the moving parts there, I think that could end up being a really, really good unit. Yeah, they added some real talent to that receiver room. I mean, not just with Bateman, but I even have Wachens there is going to just be a nice. He's a pro. He's an adult. Thank you. I was just going to say a steady presence.

Even though he's injured, you at least know what Sammy Watkins is going to give you. So actually, it gives you a nice gauge of how good is our passing game. Okay. We can't get Sammy open. Wow. Oh, shoot. We got to really do something to reconfigure this. But he gives you a nice gauge because he can get open on any other offense.

So, but yeah, the Ravens is, yeah, that's a sneaky good one. I agree. Speaking of sneaky good, those are the best ones. I wanted to talk about an offense you guys think could be sneaky good, one that's maybe not at the top of the league, but have a couple things break right. Maybe they could be pretty good. Lindsay, who is that for you? All right.

So I included the Cowboys there for the reasons that you guys kind of just addressed. we haven't talked about the Rams yet and the Rams offense, where they've just made what they believe is a very significant upgrade at quarterback. I think Sean McVeigh is rejuvenated right now with the idea of having Matthew Stafford and what he can potentially do. I think they've got some nice players. You know, Cooper Cup, Robert Woods. I mean, they've got some really good talent there.

So, you know, I just think this combination of Stafford, the physical tools that Stafford has and what this is going to maybe do for Sean McVeigh to kind of just like get his creative scheming juices and play calling juices flowing. So I think they could be sneaky. I'll put them as one of my sneaky good ones. And then my like real dark horse is the Vikings where we know they're going to have a really good running game. They've got some good receivers.

First time coordinator in Clint Kubiak. We know what his roots are as a coordinator. as in office. Like he's, I mean, I wrote something about him the other day that'll publish next month. And it's like, you know, we talk about coaching trees all the time. Like he is a literal branch of this coaching tree here. But so, you know, I think, you know, there's some, there's some good talent there with the Vikings, some questions at quarterback, I think. I also think that there, again, a couple of things break right for them along the offensive line.

Let's say Derisaw and Wyatt Davis, both are day one starters for them. That could be a much improved unit. And I would say they're in the running for having Thielen and Jefferson be maybe, I think, in the conversation for the best receiving tandem in the NFL. Their number three spot is in question to everyone else except for Nate because he knows exactly who's going to win that job. Yeah. He'll get it. It's just, it's just, I'm never wrong. I'm just early, guys.

So here it comes. Here's Smith Marseille. He's coming. He's coming, guys. Vikings was actually one of the ones I was kind of like had like on my final list for this answer. We're going to get sucked into the Vikings again. Every time. And we're making all these signings and free agency.

And I'm like, no, stop it. And you and I are both going to be like, you know, not going to bet against Zimmerman. Kubiak, same last name. Some of these guys, they know what they're going to be doing. I just 10 and 7. They're going to win the wild card. They're going to make the playoffs. You can predict the conversation we're going to have two months in advance.

Frustrating four weeks where they're like, they can't score a point. The defense looks awful. And then they're going to come along and win three straight. We're going to go, there it is. There it is. Here they come. 10 and seven. It's, we are just doomed to that fate every single time.

And he said that Vikings and it was like a Pavlov's dog. Like I just started kind of going like, yeah, yeah, we're talking. Vikings. Yeah, Vikings, Vikings. Yeah, Vikings. Vikings. Did you have anyone else, Nate, is in here for you? Yeah.

I, look, I already talked about with the Broncos roster. I do like what the Broncos have outside the quarterback position. But the other one is actually the Patriots. Patriots done some nice things. Their old line is legit good. Like, good to very, very, very good, actually. In a week full of units that have at least one week link or probably two, they don't. Great way to put it.

Yeah, because I got to watch and really study him a couple weeks ago. And like, Isaiah Wind is firmly a good left tackle. I don't think he'll ever be a star star, but he is very good to very good left tackle. Funky watch, he's got tiny hands and he's short and he's long armed. It's a very weird. It's a very weirdly built left tackle for sure. That was the question coming in, right, if he was going to be able to play left tackle because of that. I mean, he likes his island and misfit toys because he's going to.

got Shaq Mason at six foot guard right over there too. So it's kind of, it's kind of funny. But I do love their own line. And I really do. To what they've done, though, the fact that they can just pluck those guys. I mean, obviously when was a first round pick, but it getting Michael and Wen you in the sixth round, I mean, they just, those guys come out of the woodwork for them to be solid starters within the first two years. I mean, it's crazy. And when you played like it was his third year starting and he was a six round rookie. It was awesome. Multiple place, multiple spots.

It's ridiculous. Yeah, I know. And so I like that. I think we underrate Cam a little bit. I think he had to do a lot for that offense last year with what they have. So I don't think he's really ready to relinquish it to MacMach Jones yet, to McCorkle. Receiver-wise, they don't really have an ace. But I do like the kind of blending of parts, you know, Kendrick Bourne, shout out. But Nelson Aguard, you know, taking along. And then I do like the tight ends. I really liked Hunter Henry ever since he came out of Arkansas.

I've been a fan of his. I mean, he's a good pro. He's a good tight end. Like, he's a good, solid tight end. And Johnny Smith can bring some explosivity. Explosivity. That's real. That's a real thing.

Explosiveness. But with that, I just like it. I just like the blending of parts. Yeah, there's some question works. But, you know, seeing what Josh McDaniels has done the last couple of years with what he's had and now he's getting some fun pieces in a good old line and Cam running the ball a little bit, I think they could do some fun things this year and be a top 10 kind of offense.

I think I'm really excited to watch them. Oh, yeah. I am also really excited to watch the Washington football team's offense. I think they not only could be sneaky fun because I think they're going to be fun to watch. I think they could be pretty good. I think the jump from what they had a quarterback last year to Fitzpatrick, plus some of the changes they've made. I mean, you look at that offensive line again, I think the five starters when it sorts itself out, let's say Sam Cosmy, their second round pick ends up being their right tackle.

They signed Charles Leno for cheap and free agency. They traded for Eric Flowers. These aren't the most exciting names in the world, but they can find five functional starters from the group that they have. And then you add Curtis Samuel to Terry McLaurin. And we like Diami Brown coming out. I feel like he's a perfect little just ingredient. to sprinkle into that offense. I think Antonio Gibson is a chance to be really good.

I was reading Mark Bullock's piece on his stub stack this week about just his maturation over his rookie year, his patience and just the way he was learning to press the hole and things like that. I mean, I really like watching him. I think that group could be super entertaining and not only just super entertaining, but a top 12-ish offense this year if things break right for them. So that's another one that I think is just sneak league has a chance to be pretty good. All right.

Let's go the other way. Lindsay, is there an offense that you're worried about from a team that otherwise could be pretty solid, but you just are not sold on what they have offensively? I mean, I guess the offenses that I'm all that I'm worried about are kind of bad teams. That's fine. So I probably have maybe not done this exercise completely right. I'm just not super into the Panthers offense right now. I just am not sold on the Sam Darnold's.

like that Sam Darnold is going to be this big Darnaldos, you're not sold? Yeah, I mean, I didn't hate the trade. I mean, I think there's like potential upside still there, whatever. But I'm just not, I don't love their offensive roster. You know, we didn't get really get to see who they wanted to be last year because Christian McCaffrey was injured for almost the entire year. But I keep waiting to see like we've been sold on Joe Brady, right?

Like I want to see it, but I'm just not sure if. They have the horses. So they're one of the ones that I'm a little bit concerned about. I think they're receiving core has a chance to be really good. And diverse, they have guys that can play different roles there. If you have Terrence Marshall on the, Terrace Marshall on the slot,

we'll see what they do with McCaffrey. Tight end is still a huge question. I mean, for all the Dan Arnold heads out there. And that's, so we'll get there. I want to talk about their offensive wine a little bit later. I figured,

I figured I was bite my tongue. I was bite my tongue. So I think that's a good one. Nate, who's yours? Who's the offense that you're just, I don't know. Bear down Chicago Bears, man. I am sorry.

I want to. I mean, even with number one back there on the depth chart, just going over through that roster and really, you know, really putting a comb through it. Love Alan Robinson. I do. And I think Byrd's a fine player, but I mean, the receiving options are still just, it's not good. It's not good.

Run it back. Montgomery's whatever. Terry Cones, whatever. Montgomery's good. David Montgomery is a good running back. Yes. But it's like, okay. But then what, okay, so it's hard for me because they just want to force Terry Cohn into our lives so much that it's like, it's hard to like see Montgomery going unless he gets one of these 20 plus touch games when I actually see him running the ball because that's also going to get to the next point is O line. I still, I want to see Jenkins. I do think Jenkins could be a good good pro. So it's just like I just want to see the rest of the line. So really that I guess we're going to question.

Don't you love how they're selling us Germain and Fetti now? It's we're a couple years removed from the Seattle thing. So now he's a promising tackle again. No, and that's the thing. Even when he was coming out, I always thought he was a guard. I really did. And that's what's so funny is he just keeps getting chances that tackled. It's like, oh, no, oh, no. But yeah, it's the Bears. I mean, what year is it, 2021?

This might, it could be 2001. It could be 2011. It could be 2016. The only difference, though, if the quarterback is good, then we figure this shit out later and that's all that matters. But it doesn't matter. Exactly. I think that the supporting cast, I completely agree with you.

I've had my, my concerns about it. I'm a little bit worried about it. Is this the right group? to prop up a rookie quarterback to help him all of that stuff. Because I think the receiving options outside of Robinson are a huge question. And I still have questions about the offensive line. Maybe it sorts itself out, but it's not a talented group top to bottom for sure. The one that I'm worried about is Pittsburgh.

I mean, their offensive line, Steelers fans will sell you that they're better this year. I don't see why. I mean, they have a Corifor and banner at tackle. even if you think that Villanueva wasn't very good or whatever I mean these aren't proven starters I mean it's not as if they're they're upgrading clearly at those spots

even again if they want to sell you that Kendrick Green is going to start at center this is the difference between talking about a team like the Bucks and talking about Pittsburgh right when we're talking about the Bucks drafts it's like oh Joe Try on their first round pick is good depth at the edge spots with the Steelers it's their first three picks

need to be immediate impact players so them to get where they're going That's the difference when you talk about these teams. And that's where the Steelers are. They have not made many clear improvements to that offense. The past catchers are good. They're fun. We know that.

They bring juju back. Deonti Johnson's fun. Chase Claypool, I think, has a lot to offer on the outside. That group is good. But other than that, I think there are a ton of questions, and I still have a lot of questions about their quarterback. I don't think they're going to be one of the worst offenses in the league. But if they're the 20th best offense in football and they're just,

defense is, I don't know, the sixth or seventh best offense in the league now. What are they? I mean, that's a 500 team and you're just kind of sitting there floating in no man's land as you figure out what you want to do with Rathusberger. And to me, that seems like the most likely outcome for that. Yeah. God, I'm curious to see what this offense is, especially with Matt Canada there, because it's like, this could be, they could be hard to score 20 points these weeks.

I mean, they really can unless not. That's right. Football is definitely set up to be built like that these days. So that's what we're trying to win. these games 17 to 14. I'm so mad. You just hear all that. You're like,

oh, yeah. Well, they're at the point that I'm just like, they're almost an afterthought because they were so frustrating to watch for the last two years. And we could kind of write it off in 2019 because Ben wasn't playing. And then 2020,

they were winning a bunch of games, but you would watch it with your eyes and you'd be like, they're not good. There's no explosion here. Like, what is this is really painful to watch. And they, yeah,

they're not better this year. So I'm mad. I didn't pick them, but good call, Robert. All right, Nate, who is, that enough, five, four, three. All right, Nate, who would you say has the best defensive debt chart in the league? This one actually was kind of hard because I'm actually torn between two teams and it's almost like a philosophical thing because it's like, all right, do you build up front or do you build on the back end?

And it's like which one would I prefer? And I think I'm going to go with my original gut instinct is I think in a league that's impossible to find one good corner, much less several actual playable ones like the Ravens have. I think that is where you start with the best defense for roster. And I just think going with their DB group with the patch and then also the lineback group with some of the young guys, I do think, you know, they have question marks. Don't get me wrong. But I do think up front. They need O way to be very good, very quickly. Yes. But they also just up front. I just think with some of these pieces they have. And also it's good. But, you know, it's not their stars are there. Their stars are in the back end. And guess what? They have stars littered throughout it. And I think that is just, I love that. I love that they have depth at the corner position, which is the hardest thing to find. And not. the fact that Tayvon Young doesn't even need to play for them necessarily and he's like a really good slot corner yeah just bring him along you know we could just we could just he's a man playing when we want to play that's dime yeah we go dime we're good okay bills you want to go four receivers all right we have four corners like a legit cover room and it's like that i just think it's so hard

because this was torn me i'm really excited i actually didn't want to go first here because i was really curious to see what you guys would answer here because i this one was actually really hard because i was torn in different so many different arguments of how i want do i kind to go about this. But this is just how I look at it. I just think what the Ravens have done, and they've done it in a unique way, trading for Marcus and getting Humphrey and drafting him. I don't know. I just think, I really do think, you know, if Queen ascends, this defense can really take a huge labor. It's like, holy crap, that is a really hard defense to prepare for it. And it's a really fun defense to watch for us who doesn't have to prepare for him.

My biggest question for them is the edge rush response, but they're also so good at manufacturing pressure. I mean, they're just so, so good at just throwing a bunch of bodies at the problem and solving it that way. And they were able to do that because of how they're built on the back end. And that was, that was hard for me because it's not like they have stars up there, but it's like the depth is all nice. And I also think just a Mababu.

The interior guys, I guess interior being like your five Texanxx in a three, four. Like Wolf is good. Campbell's good. They have Williams. Like those guys can play. Play, but it's not like a star star.

You know, and I do think Justin Mabadoo, Duk, I call him Mama Duk, but I do think he's going to send into a player that we're going to be talking about this on the podcast a few times because he's a really fun player that came on at the end of last year as a rookie. Lindsay, how about you?

All right. I mean, we've talked about these guys over and over, right? I mean, it's the Bucks. I think the Bucks of the best defensive roster. And they were built this way on purpose. I think you could have made the argument last year that they had the best defensive roster. And that was what Jason Light and Brouserians tried to do

and then getting Tom Brady kind of elevated their offense to a whole different level. But what I like about the Bucks defense is that where's the weakness up front? You have Vida Vea who came back and transformed them when he was able to come back off of IR late in the playoffs. You've got arguably the best pass rush duo and you were able to resign Shaq Barrett and then you have Jason Pierre Paul. You've got two ridiculously good fast linebackers with Avanti David and Devin White. But the back end is really good. Carlton Davis, who you mentioned earlier, Nate, Anton Winfield, who's only going to get better in year two.

So it's just really hard to find like a hole on that defense. And then you throw in Todd Bowles who didn't get a head coaching job. should have probably gotten a head coaching job. I bet there's teams out there right now who watch the playoffs and are kicking themselves that they didn't more seriously consider Todd Bowles. So I think if you're just talking like starting 11 throw in a nickel corner situation,

the best top to bottom is the box. I'm going with the Broncos. Okay. I have them on my sneaky good list. The Broncos, they're not sneaky good. They have the most defensive talents. They draft their corners were already good. They already had Ronald Darby, Kyle, Ronald Darby, Kyle Fuller.

I don't know why I can't say those names together. Ronald Darby, Kyle Fuller, and Bryce Callahan. Then they drafted Patrick Sertan in the top 10. His team still has Von Miller and Bradley Chubb. Shelby Harris is a really good player. I mean, this team is really, really good on defense. And Defangio. And so that helps.

But even just the talent on the roster, I think they're set up to be really, really good defensively. And their safeties are good. There are so few holes on this team defensively. Justin Simmons is pretty good. Yeah. I mean, that team is really, really good on defense. I think they have the best one because I think that not only are there a few holes, but I think the high end talent is really good.

If Von Miller comes back and is like a B plus version of Von Miller, they have a chance to be truly dominant. Yeah, we've never gotten to see like the full Von Miller Bradley Chubb experience because of injuries to both of those guys. We've, we've just had little bits and pieces of it here and there where, um, hopefully this year we'll get to see that these two guys being healthy and playing together at the same time. And I started to think it wasn't going to happen. I honestly was really surprised that the Broncos exercise, Von Miller's option. I had just spent months basically preparing myself that von Miller wasn't going to be a Bronco anymore. And now hopefully we get to

see that. We get to see these two guys playing together and that should be really, really fun. I'm so glad you guys mentioned those. two. Those are because those are the other two. I was torn on and then I have one more that it was, but that's like, I talked myself out with Washington because it's just like I. Yeah, there's the other team I had as my sneaky list. But just because they're so front laden. And it's like that's the corner. The other corner spot because I think that Jackson is going to give them something. But the other corner spot will see what happens with Collins. I think that's a question. And then the other team I think you could throw in there is Pittsburgh. But they're worse than they've been. I mean, that team has gotten. It's just one of those things. We've talked about this a bunch of different times when Spillane. now has to start instead of just being depth. Cam Sutton is the same way. They've just gotten a little bit worse on the margins than they happen over the last couple of years. But I still think they're pretty damn good top to bottom.

All right. Let's get to the sneaky good defense that you each pick. Lindsay, why don't you start us off? Well, we've already kind of talked about the teams that I had on my list. I had the Broncos more as a sneaky good just because there have been so many new. I think the talent is pretty clear, but it's so many new guys. And then some of the guys that you mentioned are barely under the radar really outside of like big football.

Ball nerds, no offense. What are you trying to say? I know. What do you try to say? Or locally here where I live in Denver, where like everybody here in Denver knows who Shelby Harris is and like the value that he's brought, but I still don't think he's kind of like a national name. He could potentially have that sort of trajectory.

I mean, I think he's on that sort of path. Lindsay talking about under the radar players like Von Miller here. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. I said Shelby Harris. You got to watch. I will say the one, I'm super fascinated by team social media accounts because some of them are so, so good and have done really good work. Go back and watch the Broncos, like,

Twitter and Instagram during their mini camp. They had a ridiculous series. And if you want to know, Shelby Harris, just go take a look at their tweets and their Instagram during mini camp from about a week, a week and a half ago. Really, really, really fun stuff. And you'll get to know, like, who this guy is in Denver that everybody is really, really excited about. And then I had Washington, kind of for the reasons I already talked about. I mean, they've got some super, super, super stars. Their defensive front is really good. I also think they have some, you know, good young defensive assistant coaches who are going to get the most out of those groups. I'm not sure, you know, Jack Del Rio is still the coordinator there. I'm more excited about some of the under the radar

under the radar guys there. So those are my sneaky good options. Nate, how about you? Sneaky good. I actually had the Packers. And that is, I actually just think the talent they have to accumulate there. It's one of those that you, if you take a step back and actually look at it, you're like, these are really good players that they have. to separate the talent from the way the talent was deployed over the last couple years. Oh, my, that's exactly right. Because when you see the stuff actually sound or when, um,

when they actually had a good game plan that was like, okay, on top of what the offense was doing, it's like, holy crap, they would just blitz people. I mean, not literally,

but also figuratively, like the offense is just couldn't even get anything going. But I mean, Kenny Clark up front, the Smiths, um, I mean, Roshan Gary.

I mean, he is really about to ascend. He can only bull rush, but he can bull rush. I mean, he's got one move, but it's a good move. But then even in the back, I mean, Jair Alexander is a legit.

We talked about it. We got the gush about him on our draft show. Legit upper tier corner. And then also one of my favorite players is Darnel Savage, who I just think is about to ascend at superstar level. I really think he is a extremely talented player. I just think, okay, I think maybe they get a little more sound defense, maybe not trying to be so crazy and just let their players play a little bit. I think they're about to be a legit more as opposed to their mid level. I think they're a 17th in DVOA last year.

I think they're going to be a true better defense that's more top 10, top 8, and more just consistent because they had flashes of that, but now you can really see the talent shine through. I want to see what Joe Barry does with that group. That's one of the coordinator plus talent combinations that I'm excited to watch this year, just because, again, I think that if they're deployed in a different way, we might appreciate them a little bit more than we have. Mine's the Giants.

I thought that the Giants were extremely well coached last year, but they didn't have a ton of talent, you know, top to bottom on the entire defense. Let's see what DeZizzo Jolari can give them. I still think that they lack past rushing popping, depending on where you want to line up Leonard Williams. But I think their front is pretty solid. I think that Blake Martinez had a really nice year for them, playing for Patrick Graham last year, and the changes they made in the secondary. Now you have a Dory Jackson with James Bradbury. We'll see what happens with Xavier McKinney.

You're healthy for an entire year. They still have Logan Ryan. I think they have a chance to be really, really good defensively this year. They were promising last season, but I think this is a chance for them to take a step forward. They're like the perfect answer here for me. When I came up with this category, it was because I had the Giants in mind and wanted to talk about them. They're fun to watch, man. They used some fun stuff last year.

Yeah, I co-op that. I'm excited to watch them in 2021. It's well. Nate, the defense that you're a little bit worried about. The Titans defense, uh, as excited. Which is such a problem when you've spent all the money that they have. I know. I know.

That's what's so funny. I wanted to be more excited about it, but you're going through it and just watching them again. I'm like, nope, I can't sign off on that. What I just watched. I just, they need an identity. I feel like they just try and do too much. That's why I totally agree. I know we're talking about roster depths and everything, but man, that's the thing is I don't

know who they build around who they think is ascending, who they want to be the key cog. And so they really need Farley to be healthy. I mean, really, really need him to be healthy to even cover anybody. And just up front, yeah, they're going to create some chaos. I have some nice, I think a lot of number twos. They're one of those kind of defenses where they have a lot of number twos. Roshan Evans does some nice things. but even him sometimes it looks like his head's about the pop trying to figure out what he's trying to do.

So I think that's a defense that really causes some concerns, especially they're going to have a big spotlight on them because I think that offense could be so much fun in 2021. Outside of Kevin Byard, and then Jan Brown, I think, would qualify for this too. They haven't really developed a lot of in-house defensive talent. They've really struggled to do that. Like, Harold Landry has never become the player they wanted him to. I think Jeffrey Simmons is a chance to be pretty good. I mean, for the most part, I think that their defense is just, it's fallen flat. And it's held them back.

Like there's no denying that. When they had peas, I think it was the right coach for that defense because it was just weird stuff. It's like, all right, let's just be weird as possible. A bunch of weird players. Let's run a weird defense. And I think it was just you try to be as volatile as possible when you don't know exactly what you want to do. And last year without that, I think they struggled. So I think that they're a good one.

To me, it's Dallas. I mean, mostly because I think the offense is super bowlworthy. I think that offense can win you with Super Bowl. The defense is a complete question work. I mean, they are rolling with young, young, unproven guys in the secondary. There's a chance they're starting a second round pick as their other outside corner. The safeties are much better. I mean, they have 17 linebackers.

I don't know which ones are going to play. The front is still a question. I mean, that defense could be anything at this point. Anything is on the table with that group. And with how good the offense is, I just think that's why that one's just a big blinking light to me. I'll throw mine in there. I still have major questions about the Raiders defense. Oh, yeah, as you should.

Yeah, right. I have major questions about the Raiders offense this year. Which we haven't gotten to their, their talent really anywhere on their roster. I mean, they made a lot of moves on their defense, right? But it's just kind of like a lot of veteran guys. It was a shell game. Maybe, I mean, look, I like Casey Hayward as a player.

Solomon Thomas was a really high draft pick. Quentin Jefferson has been like a, useful rotational defensive lineman in his career. But you're trying to kind of fix one of the worst defenses in football with kind of just like these hodgepod pieces. It's what they do every off season. Every off season, it's like this flurry of signings and they spend all this money in free agency and there's all this dust.

And then when it settles, it's like, this is it? This is what we're doing here? I mean, it happens every single year at this point. It's just a lot of shuffling for not a lot of payoff. And then it's similar with Dallas where it's kind of a, you know, Gus Bradley, as our new defensive coordinator. You've got Dan Quinn in Atlanta, where it's you're kind of trying to recreate

the Seattle style of defense. And I'm just not sure if it's going to work. So yeah, sorry. That makes two of us. All right. Let's get a little more granular here. Nate, who do you think is the best position group in the NFL? This one was fun.

I ended up going with Washington's front four. That's totally fair. Yeah. And watching them and some of the discussions we've had these podcasts the last few months or the shows the draft shows i got to really really study him a little bit and watching that front and watching guys like chase young and montez sweat and jonathan allen and i know carrigan's not there anymore but they still got other guys like ianitis coming off the bench i mean they have the three legit guys like montes swit i i think if he was on uh where he had to be a

number one for somebody you'd be a little disappointed but he's in a role where he can just be the super number two and be the hustle you know what it reminds me of it reminds me of it is in Pittsburgh. Yeah. Where he, it's, you have this guy who is kind of a weird watch where his game is like very volatile and it's all over the place,

but he's allowed to be that because he's not the best player in that unit. Like that's what it reminds me of. Yep. He's perfect if you have other studs. And then it's like, oh my God, this guy like looks great too. And he's talented,

but he's just not. Yeah, it's a weird watch. It really. Yes. He's a weird guy to watch. He's just a strange player. He's very strangely built. Like he's just watching him as an interesting experience.

His hips are up to his. ears like yeah I know it's like yeah I know but and he plays hard I know but it's it's perfect for what they have because then they have their guy chase young looks all intents of purposes looks like a stud and that's your bonafide one you got your super number two and then you got jonathan allen who's gonna I mean is one of the best interior guys in the league period um it's just kind of it's a you know de tackles are always going to take a while before people realize that but then especially ones on not winning teams it's game also isn't flashy I think that's another big part of it's not a lot of like splashy tfls because he's not explosive

he's just really, really refined. His game has a lot of nuance to it. He is strong and technically sound. And it's just it's he pushes pockets. He throws guys around. He creates chaos without the flash. It's just a guy that's just, he's just there.

And also it's four yards and a cloud of dust, but coming the other way. But yeah, I would just go Washington's front. There's a couple other ones. I'm sure you guys are talking about. So I'm excited to hear what you guys. Lindsay,

what do you got? All right. I think we've talked enough about the bucks wide receivers. Yeah. Okay, good. I think that's one that we just, they're there, Evans, Godwin, Scottie Miller, Antonio Brown. My other options are the Browns running backs, the Nick Chub, Cream Hunt, throw in their

offensive line as well there. But I think in terms of like a running back duo running back design, the way that running game is designed, all of that. I'm also going to throw in Titans wide receivers because those dudes are massive and really fast. If you only count the two wide receivers, which they probably will only play with You only need to. You only need to, right? Love it.

And then just for shits and giggles, I'll throw on the Patriots tight ends because they signed all of them. Every single one who is available in soft season, they picked them and they signed them. So those are my groups. Nice. I have the Browns offensive one. Yep. I mean, it is very good. It is like all the way across.

And not just that they lack holes. They have true studs at some of those spots. I mean, Wight-Teller was fantastic last year. Conklin is a really good, bright tackle. J.C. Treter is as solid as you can get as a center. Joe Petoneo is really, really good. And we'll see what happens with Wills in year two. I mean, obviously he was a rookie.

He played pretty well. It's probably only going to get better from here. I mean, top to bottom, you rarely see an offensive line with that amount of talent and just absolutely no weaknesses at this point. So I think they're in there. That last point you just made is the best part about no weaknesses. that not just their talent wise, but they're scheme proof. Like they run Callahan shit, but they also can run zone.

They can also pass protect. They can pull. And so it's just they're good at everything. That's such a great point. Having Teller as like a weapon on some of those power runs is just something that coming into last season, you just didn't think that was going to be the case. Like there's, they'll be outside zone, outside zone, outside zone. They'll run it to death and understanding the talent that they had and being able to throw

some of those changeups in with some of that stuff that Callahan was willing to fold in was huge. It was a huge part of what they did offensively. So I think that group is amazing. I think the Steelers' defensive front, even without Dupree, is still really good. I mean, Watt to it, Hayward, is a fantastic trio. And I think Highsmith was pretty good last year. If you're going to throw those four guys out, that's a good group. And the other one to me is the Cowboys receiving core.

I mean, their highs aren't as high as Tampa Bayes. Like, I think Mike Evans is better than anyone they have. And then Chris Goblin probably is two. But those three guys together and how they compliment one another. they're like how Lamb's game fits with Cooper's fits with gallops. I just love the puzzle pieces and how they all come together.

It's a classic X, a classic Z, and a classic slot. A new classic slot. A new classic slot, we'll call it now. I love how those pieces fit together. I agree.

So I think that was good. And I love the Washington front. I think that's a really good answer. All right. Yeah. So let's get to the most improved position group in this off season. Lindsay,

who do you have there? All right. I'm going to go with the Brown secondary. That's a great one. Where, you know, I think they very clearly knew in 2020 that they needed to make some offensive upgrades, especially in that offensive line. You just got into a lot of the moves that they made there. This year, they very clearly knew that they needed to make some upgrades all across their defense, but specifically in their secondary. John Johnson and Troy Hill and free agency, first round pick, cornerback, Greg Newsom.

And you're going to get Grant Delpit back. It's almost a cheap in 2020. So he missed all of last year with an injury. So that secondary is almost completely overhauled. I mean, there's still some returning pieces there, but those are some really nice moves. And that position group went from a weakness to potentially one of the best units in the NFL. They have so much flexibility.

I mean, the amount of bodies they have back there, though you can you'll throw three safeties at you when it's time. If they need to play dime, they'll probably be able to. Just having Greedy Williams be somebody that is a luxury and not someone you have to rely on, that's indicative of the improvements they've made over the course of the office. Nate, who do you got there? I got the Chargers O line. Me and you both, buddy.

I figured. I was waiting for our Chargers hype to come. Even if they went from like average, they just got a bunch of average guys. It would have been a huge improvement. But the fact that they got, you know, Lindsay and Filer and it's also drafting Slater. I mean, just right there. I mean, three bonafide starters, assuming that their first round pick is going to be a good starter. But I do.

I do think he's a good prospect. But I just truly think just going from. I always, you know, you put on the scale, I always try to go bad, below average, average, above average good. And I've talked about this before, but even going from one tier, average to above average is nice. But going from a below average to above average, that's still two tiers of bumps. Like, you know, it's still two tiers of improvement. You don't have to go below average to great. But they went from shit to above average good.

Like, so that's three tiers. In a single off season. And a single and two months time. And that's, it's, that's pretty awesome. And I really do think that's going to say that. Without breaking the bank either. I mean, obviously the Lindsay contract is big, but it's not going to torpedo you. You're going to see all of it.

You're going to see all of it too. It's a center. You got a rookie quarterback, spend your money on the offense line. That's exactly right. And that's why what they did I love. And you know what? They love Odeiabushi. They got them for absolutely nothing.

They thought, they think that his best football is ahead of him. So for them to just completely retool that. And we'll see what if Block can stay healthy, I mean, I totally agree. I think they're the clear-cut choice to me, but the Brown secondary is a really good one. All right. So let's finish on sort of a down note here. Those are the most improved position groups. Is there a position group that just wasn't touched or wasn't improved this off season?

Or they added pieces and you're very confused about it. Let's call this the what the hell were they doing position group. Lindsay, do you have an answer for this one? Okay. I swear this isn't just because I've been listening to way too much Denver sports talk radio. But it's the Broncos quarterback position. That one feels cheap. It does.

It's cheating. But I also want to lob up a softball so Nate can take a Drewlock shot at some point before this podcast. I got to keep it going. I got to keep it going. Joe DiMaggio streaks is in sight. I'm almost there. Almost that many podcasts in a row. I mean, it's, you know, I, we talked a lot last year about the Drewlock hype.

And this time last year, everybody was so on board with the Broncos and their offensive skill position players. And that it just, he was objectively. bad last year. And yes, there were some injury issues that went on elsewhere on their offense that didn't help him. But he was bad. And they spent this entire offseason looking at other options. They explored the Matthew Stafford type of trade. You know, the Aaron Rogers stuff is still out there. And Broncos fans are banking on that happening. I mean, anytime there's any bit of Rogers news out there. The city freaks the you know what out because they still think that like Rogers is going to

show up at Centennial Airport any day now. But I remember before the draft saying if, you know, even if it was a couple days before the draft when they traded for Teddy, Teddy Bridgewater. And it was like if they head into training camp and it's Teddy Bridgewater versus Drew Locke, something has gone wrong. This is really disappointing. And that's where we're at. And it's just really hard to get excited about that quarterback competition. The tweets coming out of mini camp with like, Drew Locke through an interception, then Teddy Bridgewater like threw it out of bounds on fourth down and a red zone

drill. And it's like, what are we doing here? Like what, what are we doing here? So I'm just going to speak for Denver and say WTF. That entire exchange sounds like the last decade of my life. Yeah.

I mean, it's been a good, it's been my daughter's entire life. She was born. I was pregnant with her at Super Bowl 50. and remember taking her to visit training camp as a newborn when it was the Mark Sanchez, Trevor Simeon, Paxton Lynch quarterback competition. So my daughter knows nothing else but this.

I am so glad that I have gotten off the whatever version of Drew Locke versus Teddy Bridgewater, Mary Go Round that I lived on for 30 years. For at least the time being, it is stopped. For at least right now, it is over because that's exactly what the Bears Offs. season last year sounded like. It's like, all right, we got to bring Nick Foles in to push Mitchell Trubisky. You know who wins that quarterback competition?

No one. No one wins that one. And I think the same thing is going on in Denver right now. Nate, how about you? What's yours? We already touched on it, but my answer was the Steelers O' line. Just really kind of was, I thought they would do something a little more. I actually thought that they were going to take one of the first, even though all the

the rumors were coming out with the running back and stuff like that. But yeah, that kind of disappointment me more than anything. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed because I kind of thought Steelers are one of those teams that kind of, you know, they do their own thing. They kind of marched their own drum a little bit. But I was like, you know, I kind of thought they would shore up the O line because I kind of built a lot of their good teams was taking high draft picks in O line and get lucky with some other guys.

But yeah, so I think the Steelers O line is what I would say didn't get it. This would have been the Titans receivers if they didn't trade for Julio. That would have been easily. That easily, this would have easily been my answer if they didn't trade for Julio. It would have been the Titans receiver corps. I think it was Ian Harditz from PFF today, tweeted. it was who has the most 15-yard receptions over the last three years, and it was Julio,

even though he missed, like, most of last season. It's like, it's absolutely ridiculous. Like, going from Josh Reynolds is your number two receiver, Josh Reynolds is fine,

right? Josh Reynolds is an NFL player. Yeah, he's a whole, so Julio Jones is just, I can't even imagine, like, what Todd Downing's day to day is like now compared to what it was like a

month ago. It's the same thing. It's the below average to above average. No, we're going below average to Julio. To Hall of Fame, Julio Jones. Even at age 31,

It's just ridiculous. All right. I'll take that. Mine is the Panthers offensive line. Yeah. I just don't understand. Maybe I'm missing something. They bring in Pat Elfline and Cam Irving.

Maybe they think that they can fix those guys because they have not been above average starters for most of their careers. Maybe they're trying to go cheap. I just, I don't understand the plan. They drafted Brady Christensen in the third round. Maybe they think he can play. It confuses me. And you look at what Sam Darnold had with the Jets. And one of the reasons that I think he struggled so much is that that that line,

was a huge question for his entire career. And that's why, we'll talk about this a lot, I think, between now and the season. But if you look at the reclamation projects that are happening in Indy and Carolina, the Colts are taking Carson Wenson, putting him behind five blocks of granite in Indy. And the Panthers are taking Sam Donald and putting him into a situation with admittedly better scheme,

admittedly better receiving options. But the offensive line is still a huge question. And I think a barrier to returns on that. darnal trade. So that was confusing to me. And I think the other one would probably be the Giants offensive line. I mean, you think about all these splashy moves they made this offseason and spending all that money on Kenny Goliday and then

drafting Cadarious Tony in the first round and I'm sitting there being like, who's going to block for Daniel Jones? That's unbelievable, man. It's a good thing he doesn't have foul issues. Yeah, exactly. He's fantastic. He gets a ball out quick. His pocket presence is just immaculate. So that shouldn't be an issue at all. All right. That is all we got.

Again, it's kind of a dower note on which to end the show. It's okay. Let's talk about the bucks some more. One more time. The bucks are great. The bucks have the best roster in the league. We've established that. I think a useful exercise, though.

And I think a good way to spend some time here in the dregs of the NFL offseason when there's literally nothing going on. We will be back on Friday with the next installment of the offseason interview series. I'm very excited about this one. I don't want to jinx it. So I'm not going to say who it is. Maybe I'll tweet it out right before we record. But that will be back on Friday.

Me and Nate will be back next week. We're getting toward the end of the offseason here. We're about a month away from training camp, but we will be coming to you guys until that day happens. So thank you guys for listening. Appreciate it. Please subscribe to The Athletic. Theathletic.com slash football show.

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Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. I would very much appreciate that. We'll be back on Friday. Until then, thanks for listening. We'll talk to you guys later. This was the athletic football show.