The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Aaron Rodgers to the Steelers, Jaire Alexander released, and more from OTAs

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

The league's most faux-uncertain quarterback question finally got its long-expected answer last week when Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers officially agreed to terms on a one-year contract. That's where Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen begin their roundup of all the news that dropped during OTAs on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. The guys also discuss Frank Ragnow's retirement, the Packers' release of Jaire Alexander, Anthony Richardson's shoulder injury, Mike Macdonald's incredulity, and a whole lot more.Rundown (timestamps are approximate)4:33 Aaron Rodgers to the Steelers15:13 Packers release Jaire Alexander23:34 Jalen Ramsey trade still hanging out there26:54 Frank Ragnow retires36:54 Terry McLaurin's frustrated with his contract status39:44 Anthony Richardson sidelined for minicamp with shoulder injury45:51 Bryce Huff traded to 49ers49:34 Nick Chubb signs with Texans51:06 Rashod Bateman signs extension with Ravens54:17 Jonnu Smith trade chatter55:39 Saints OL shakeup58:30 Ricky Pearsall and Joey Bosa out until training camp with injuriesHosts: Robert Mays and Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...⁠Apple⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠YouTube⁠Follow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. It is nice to be back. I sincerely appreciate everybody picking out the slack while I was gone. Derek, Mike Sando, Jake Seeley, Michael Beller. Really fun to have Deontay Lee back on the show. Got some much-needed, much-enjoyed time away with my wife. So thank you very much to everybody who was willing to kind of chip in and make that possible.

But it's really good to be back with you guys. I missed some stuff while I was gone. I was gone for about two weeks and plenty of things happened. we are going to use today to scoop up all of those news items. Aaron Rogers, a couple trades that happened. Frank and Ragnow retiring, some injury news that has trickled out over the last couple of days. Derek joined me to hit all of that as we do a little bit of an OTA's news item reset. So let's get to that conversation with Derek right now.

We are officially back. I am officially back here at the Athletic Football Show after a very nice vacation, a very nice bit break, but I'm very happy to be back. And I'm very happy to be joined by my co-host here at the Athletic Football Show. It's Derek Klaus and Derek, how are you doing, man? I'm doing great. It's good to have you back. I mean, you know, we had some fun, you know, where the kids were running the show here for a little bit.

And it was great. But, I mean, it's been at least two weeks since we've recorded a podcast together. So I'm pretty excited to get back into it. I am as well. You did a great job. I went back and listened to the Deonté episode this morning. You're natural. You took to it well.

I appreciate you guys really. holding it down while I was gone. You know, my wife and I, again, this job, you can really only travel one time of the year. And we like to get away for a little bit. And we had a phenomenal time. We saw just a staggering amount of Spain. I mean, we went all around the country for like two and a half weeks and just saw so much cool stuff and really, really enjoyed it.

And, you know, trying to make up a little bit for lost time with the lack of traveling I did for a few years. And so the chance to get away, it's a lot easier when I know that the house is being tended too well. and I know you guys were going to do a great job. And so thank you very much for taking on more work while I was gone. It is deeply appreciated on my side of things. Yeah, of course.

Am I putting you on the spot asking for any highlights from the trip? Oh, my God. It's hard to say, man. I mean, it's all so different. You know, it's all so different. Like we went, we spent four days in San Sebastian and then took a train down to Madrid. We were there for two days. And then we drove all the way down.

It's like Andalusia and the southern part of the country. So Granada, Cordoba, Sevia. and then we flew to Majorca for four days, which was, myark was incredible. I mean, she's absolutely beautiful. And so we got to kind of slow down there for a couple days. And then we flew to Barcelona and we went to a music festival, like the first night that we were there.

So we woke up in Majorca and then I was seeing Caribou at Premivar Sound the next day. And then we were seeing Charlie X at 2 in the morning in Barcelona. Like we did a little bit of everything over a two and a half week span. That was the nice part about it, though, is that there was a little bit everything. and we got to calm down. We wanted to. So it was truly like one of the trips of our lifetime. Like I'll remember this very fondly for a very, very long time.

And so we do it for our anniversary. So our anniversary is Memorial Day weekend. And so the last two years we've gotten to take big trips for our first and second anniversaries. And again, I feel very fortunate to be able to do that. And this was another one where it was a truly special trip. So I appreciate you asking and I appreciate you guys, you know,

being willing and able to take care of things while I was gone for a little bit. Yeah, doing our rest. Can't say I was, you know, chilling on a beach or seeing Charlie XEX, but we were having a good time here. I'm sure you guys were. You did a great job with De Ante. It was good to have him back on. I missed some stuff while we were gone. And I knew this was going to happen. You know, the way that the calendar falls, there are OTAs and when I take this vacation each year. And there's stuff to pick up and scoop up when we get back into town. And that's what we're going to do today. So some of this is a little bit dated. Some of this has happened over the last, like, couple weeks. But because you guys were doing shows that were kind of more. singularly focused on one subject. I wanted to just take today to scoop up all of the little bits of news that we got from pretty much all of the OTA practices, obviously some pretty big blockbuster type moves that have happened. So that's what we're going to do today. We're just going to hit about

10-ish items of news that have crept out over the last two weeks or so and kind of cover all of our bases from what the newsworthy stuff from OTAs has looked like. Yeah, you get back from Spain and you immediately are confronted with Aaron Rogers. How does that feel? Inevitable? Like I knew at some point this is going to happen. I figured it would happen while I was gone. And, you know, June 1st, obviously, is a big day in the NFL calendar. There weren't as many veteran moves after June 1st as we might have expected. We'll obviously talk about Jaira Alexander here in a second. He was released this morning. We're recording this on Monday. But the fact that Roger signed during that part of the calendar, I'm not necessarily surprised. I am.

glad that it was sort of in the back half of things so we could justifiably talk about it today and not have it be like two and a half week old news. If anything, I'm actually mildly surprised that happened this early. So good on them and good for the Steelers, I suppose, in that respect. One year, $13.7-ish million, $10 million guaranteed. They're incentives that can take it up to like $18 or so million dollars. Is there anything about this that you find notable or surprising? or is this pretty much what you sort of expected maybe other than how quickly it happened in the timeline

overall? Yeah, other than me expecting Aaron Rogers to have drawn this out for a little bit longer to do whatever it is that he does at this time of year, that's really the only part of this that is surprising to me. And I understand that I should care about a signing like this and I understand that I am paid money to care about a signing like this. But there is just like nothing about this that got me moving. I just, we've talked about it before that I, I didn't love this fit. I thought they should have got for cousins and all that stuff. So not surprised at any of the way that this unfolded other than maybe, you know, the date of it happening.

But it, I wanted to somehow talk myself into this that like I could get like 5% more excited for the Steelers. And I just don't really think I can. You look at the number and you look at what he's getting paid this year. It really is just a multi-time MVP sure fire Hall of Fame markup on the other one year stopgap starting deals that we've seen this year. It's really just a respectful upgrade on the Daniel Jones contract. Like that's essentially what we're talking about with what the Steelers are paying Aaron Rogers here. Yeah, it's just they're paying in that there's like six million of that money. It's just like, ah, you've done it before.

Even though we haven't seen it in three years at this point. He's a little bit older. He's got the injury stuff. It's just a lot of what he's getting paid for is stuff that he's done before, which is kind of funny in a lot of ways for a Steelers organization. that I think is living off of a reputation of stuff that they have done before and not done recently, which is why I think in a lot of ways this pairing is pretty artistic. I'm not sure how much more the cousins move or a cousin's move would have moved me or made me more compelled by what this is going to look like probably would have been in the same

general range. I think that where they are right now with the position, they're obviously backed into a corner. There are only so many moves they could have made this offseason, whether that be Matthew Stafford or bringing Jack back Justin Fields or doing something like this. And there was reported earlier today. I think it was pro football talk said that Rogers was their third option in Stafford and Fields were the first two. Well, I guess kind of, right? Like, I'm sure Matthew Stafford would have been a lot of teams first option if they could

have gotten him. And then they knew Justin Fields and he's a little bit younger. So I think potentially exploring that makes sense. But I think again, in a post-stafford world, a lot of the moves you could have made a quarterback this offseason fell into. the same general range. Like I think that Gino Smith is the guy that moved teams this year that I probably the most excited about in terms of what he could do for your short term ceiling.

Other than that, there were a lot of like, okay, I guess this is what you'll have to do given the market followed by a shrug. And the Rogers thing kind of falls in line with that to me. I'm not overly excited about it, but I'm also not going to be critical of it because I don't think there were that many other doors that were unexplored that would make me feel differently about the Steelers than I do in a post-Rogers move sort of world. On the field, I think I agree. Like, it probably is the same tier, whatever you're going to get from Kirk Cousins at this

point, even though that's what I would have wanted. Or even Justin Fields, it's just the thing is like, I would rather have Justin Fields or Kirk Cousins in my building at this point. Like, especially Fields, because you know that it could be for a little while longer, whereas at least with Cousins, it might not be for any longer than you would have Rogers. But I just, I think from that perspective, that's why I struggled with it. but like in terms of on the field, you're probably going to get quarterback 20. Your running game will be a little bit better and you'll be functional.

I went back this morning after the signing. I was like, I'm going to do still a little bit of a refresh on how I feel about Aaron Rogers in 2025. You know, what did he actually look like in the back half of last year? And it looked a lot like he was in the end of his Green Bay tenure. And I mean that in this way. When we were talking about Rogers heading into last year, I think we did it as one of the lingering questions. heading into last season was like, okay, what was Aaron Rogers for real the last time we saw him play football? And it was a lot of, I don't really have any interest in that, you know?

That was the style of play that we saw from him. And that's pretty much what it looked like last year. You watch him play. And it's pretty much go balls, slot fades, and access throws. Like, that's what he's doing right now. And a couple of the numbers that bear that out, if you look at it, like middle of the field intermediate throws. So throws were in theory, you kind of have to read stuff out. He was in the bottom three of all starters that had at least 350 dropbacks last year.

So he's not doing it very often. He's also one of the worst quarterbacks in the league when he does do it, if you look at the efficiency numbers. And the number that really jumped out to me, he had the third highest percentage of his throws, according to next-gen stats last year, that happened in under two and a half seconds. The only guys ahead of him were Tua and Joe Burrow. And then you look at the efficiency numbers associated with that. there were 26 quarterbacks last year who had at least 350 dropbacks. Rogers ranked 24th in EPA per dropback on quick throws last year.

With Burrow and Tua, this is in service of good offense for the most part. It needs to happen that way because that's the best version of your passing game in Cincinnati and Miami respectively. With Rogers, it's just like, I don't really want to do this anymore. And so I just don't know how or when that changes or if it changes. because heading into the Jets thing, it was like, okay, if he's more invested, are we going to see a willingness to read stuff out more and actually play the play rather than him just spitting the ball over the perimeter or getting rid of it really quickly,

which was kind of the case at the end in Green Bay? Well, now we're going on like year two and a half of that, and I don't think we're going to, how much more incentive does he heading into his age 42 season have to not play that way anymore? So I just don't even know what the best case scenario of this looks like. like given a huge sample size of what we've gotten from a healthy Aaron Rogers, the last two full seasons we've seen him play. That's kind of what I struggle with. And again, to bring up the Kirk King for the millionth time, I think he likes, Kirk Cousins would have liked playing in the

Arthur Smith style of offense. Aaron Rogers, I think we know fought Matt Lafleur for a while on finally getting there. And then I think at the end of Green Bay even, they had a little bit contention. And then with the Jets, it wasn't that style of offense at all. It went back to the Aaron Rogers where it's slot phase and access throws and we're throwing. and stick eight times a game for some godforsaken reason like it turned into that style of offense and i just don't really see that style of receiving core in pittsburgh it just that just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me it's the opposite of that exactly like dk metcalf is like not that player at all and like the sell with dk metcalf in theory is like okay erin rogers is still a good

deep thrower and dk medcaf is a good down-the-field uh receiver okay well you tried that formula last year with Russell Wilson and George Pickens and like, to what game? Like, it didn't really get you anything. And so I think the only way that this works out, the Steelers really, really wanted to. And Aaron Rogers plays a slightly different way is if somehow, some way this young offensive line turns into like a top five unit in the league, which there's like a 2% chance that happens. And even if I'm high on a lot of these guys, it's just like that's, you're asking for a lot

out of those young pieces. We're doing two more lingering questions shows over the next couple weeks. and I don't want to step on this too much because we are going to do a Steelers one in the final iteration of those shows, our fourth one which will run next week. And I think the central question for me with the Steelers when we talk about their ceiling this year with Aaron Rogers

is, how good are the rest of the Steelers? And to me, that's a question worth exploring. Because if you're trying to build the case here, the offensive line is a very good place to start on offense. If that can be a very good group and they run the ball efficiently and Rogers can sort of be a role player in all of this, maybe you could start to build a case. But I think the most important point,

the most important place you can start for what the Steelers can accomplish in 2025 is, the defense is like an earth-shattering unit and the offense doesn't have to be very good. And I guess I just have some real questions about how viable that sort of build and that sort of path is, given what we've seen from the Steelers defense recently. But again, I don't want to step on that too much because I think that's going to be the crux of the conversation that we have next week. There's that. And then the last thing I'll say is like, that was the sell with him and Robert Sala in New York.

And then that's not how that unfolded. Yeah. I mean, I think that the Jets defense was very good for a couple years. The Steelers at least have like a multi-year track record of being good on defense. So I think it's a little bit less fragile. And I think that's the other point that's worth making for me. With the Jets, the wholesale way they gave him control and say within the building, it could get rotted really quickly in ways.

that just aren't possible in Pittsburgh. Even if there are some acrimonious not so great working relationships that occur for this one year, I don't think that you're going to have splintering in the foundation of the wood in the way that you did with the Jets because of how much oxygen he was able to soak up there. So I think the downside cases, there's a little bit of protection from that that make me think this is more worthwhile for the Steelers than it might be for a more vulnerable or organization overall. That's a good point. Even for as much as the Rogers thing might be interesting, I don't think Tomlin's getting fired in week seven and then the defense is going to crumble.

That probably won't happen. That's a good point. Let's stick with speaking of interesting personalities that used to play with Aaron Rogers. Let's talk about Jaya Alexander here. The Packers ultimately release Jaya Alexander. Some reports today that they had tried to trade him this offseason. Teams were not willing to take on what had become a pretty big base salary for Jai'er this year. So now he's just gone. Seven million in dead money this year. million next year, obviously, as opposed June first cut, freeze up $17 million in cap space this year for the Packers and next year. You look at it, they have $46 million in space now. We can talk about how they might try to use that. Functionally, when you consider in-season moves,

maybe that's closer to like 30 to 33 million. And they don't have much cap space next year. Before the Jair move, they were over the cap. So now they have about $7 million. So my assumption is they'll want to roll over a good chunk of this to give them something to work with next year, considering how few worthwhile ways there are to use that cap space outside of Trey Hendrickson right now. But a little bit surprising that ultimately they couldn't get anything done on the trade market and this is how it ends between Jaira Alexander and the Packers. I am a little bit surprised that it had to be a cut instead of, again, there are like,

there are still a lot of cornerback needy teams because there's another cornerback we're going to talk about here later, but I've got to like 10 different teams that might still need a cornerback at this state in the calendar. So I'm a little bit surprised nobody wanted to jump the list a little bit. Well, the thing is, what if you can just sign him after he's released and you don't have to give up anything, even if you're only paying a portion of the salary, I think that the Packers as it sat after signing Nate Hobbs, they still have bored, you know, they still have Kishon Nixon. I think that there was probably a lot of teams around the league that just assumed he was going to get released if they couldn't come to some sort of conclusion or some sort of resolution,

and that's ultimately what happened. The question now is what happens for some of these teams and what the price tag looks like. Because I don't know what the comparison would be. Darius Slay got $10 million this year deep into his 30s, but Darius Slay has been a lot healthier than Jaira Alexander has been. He was playing seven games a year. So even at 28, that sort of availability, you know, is this something closer to like what Trey White got from the Rams last year coming off of an injury.

Is it something in the middle? And so that is going to be an important factor here when we talk about the teams that can sign him because let's say you do something like one year, 10 million, and you put like four void years on it. And so it's like $3 million against the cap this year. You know, similar to like what the Ravens did with Odell a few years ago, even though that was 15. That means most teams in the league, in theory, could potentially sign him even at this stage

of the calendar. and I think you're right. I mean, I think we can list some teams off here. There are probably at least eight or ten that I think you can make a compelling case for right now that it's at least worth exploring him for competition and potentially depth if you can get him at the right price because there's just not a ton of downside. Yeah, there's a lot of teams that should be poking around, especially too, like you said, if you can like manipulate the contract a little bit to make him not very expensive because

he's already not going to be very expensive because, again, he's averaging like six, seven, eight games a season over the past, I think three years where he just hasn't been very healthy. To me, it seems I'm looking at are like the Rams, obviously, this is kind of the market they like to dip in for corners anyway. It's like either we're going to take like a sixth round pick or we're just going to like swing for the fences a little bit on a weird free agent like this. I think the Vikings still make a lot of sense. I think like their cornerback room could still use a little bit of help. And then the Cowboys. And the Cowboys would be tricky because Diggs is coming off of an injury. Chavonne Ravel is coming off of an injury from college. And then Alexander would be

going off a ninja. So you'd have a bunch of guys who are not particularly healthy, but at that point it's like someone's going to be fine for us at the end of the year and you kind of need depth and help anyway. I think there's even more than that if you want to keep listing off teams. I think those are all on my list. I think the Eagles are a team that I would throw out there. If they would rather have a somewhat, if they just want to have a discount on what Darius Slay was for them last year and they don't feel super comfortable with Keely Ringo and whatever that competition looks like at the other outside corner spot. Do they want to go this direction?

I think that's a team I throw out there. The Raiders are a team that I would throw out there just based on need. There's a chance that the Raiders just say, we want to give the young guys opportunities and we don't want to step on that. I think that's a totally fair position to take. But even if you want to use one corner spot to do that, the other one still needs addressing too. Like Eric Stokes is penciled in there right now.

And the only reason with the Raiders, I would almost wonder if they don't want to do that is like Patrick Graham's been there, man. He knows who's in the building. Like, does he even want to give any of the more young guys a shot? Or is he at the point where he's like, okay, I've seen enough of some of these guys. Let's go try and see if we can get 12 games out of Jagger, Alexander. So I think that's going to be a team worth, you know,

if you wanted to watch just based on need. I think the Cowboys and the Vikings were also on my list. I would throw the Falcons out there, a team that has some win now, you know, motivations, and I think has a little bit of urgency. Right now, my cues, I think, is still penciled into another outside corner spot. They didn't pay him a ton.

They paid him that classic. If we have to do this, we can do it contract. But we don't, if there's another option, maybe we explore it. The Panthers are a team out there. Mike Jackson signed essentially the same Mike Hughes contract this offseason for their other outside corner spot. The Seahawks. They were in the Rasul Douglas market. They chatted with him a little bit recently.

All of these former Packers. And we talked about them needing another outside guy potentially to move spoon full time into the slot. not have to worry about that. The Rams and then the Niners are the other team that I would throw out there. I mean, the Niners could still probably use a little bit of outside corner help, even though they signed Trey Brown this offseason. So I think there are plenty of teams at the right price that you could talk yourself into it. If you can get it at the right price and you can mitigate whatever disaster it would be

if you only played like six or seven games and you think the swing is worth it, along with, let's call it an interesting personality fit, right? He's just an interesting character to bring. into your building. Not like a malicious character necessarily. No, he's just one of one. There's been plenty of fun moments from Jaira Alexander over the last several years where it's like, there's just nobody like this guy. So the injury stuff plus that, if you can get him for four, five, six million bucks and if you can get the cap number really low,

it just feels like it's probably worth a swing for some of these teams that have real ambitions in 2025 and still don't have that second corner spot lockdown in the way they probably want to. That's why I think he, he probably is going to end up being on one of these teams that are like the fringe wild card, but feel kind of desperate for one reason or another. That's why I think the Falcons make a lot of sense. Cowboys are not necessarily in that, but like the Cowboys do need to do any move to get their defense back into where it was. So I think those are the teams that I'm kind of looking at. And then again, you mentioned the 49ers. I think that's a really good one. Like, Trey Brown has been on and off like a really good

replacement level player for a number of teams at this point. But he's, kind of in that tier of like if we can find another option that would be nice. The falcon, it just feels like something the Falcons would do based on what the Falcons have done over the last couple of years. And so, and there's a couple of other guys still out there like Rasul Douglas, I believe, is still out there. So there are some veteran solutions if you don't go out and get a Jaya Alexander. But I wouldn't be surprised if any of those 10 teams that we just said ultimately do this.

One of the reactions to this has kind of been, ah, you know, I wonder, are we surprised that Packers didn't do more at corner in free agency in the draft that this was a possibility. I wasn't looking at it that way. I just always assumed he wouldn't be on the team in one way or another. I always thought he was kind of a bonus in the way that they were building it. And them, what they got from Javon Billard in the slot last year with Evan Williams at safety, I think now you're in a spot where it's Kishon Nixon and Nate Hobbs outside with Javon Bullard in the slot.

And that's what the secondary is going to look like when their best five are out there. I think that's absolutely what it's going to look like. And I still have some questions about how well that's going to go. Because I still think Nixon, I mean, they kind of stumbled into him being a corner at all for them. Like he was pretty much a return specialist when he got there. And then it was kind of just a matter of like, okay, a bunch of guys, including Jerry Alexander, continued to get hurt and they had to throw him out there. And he's been serviceable.

But I am a little bit surprised that they got to the point where they kind of felt all they needed to really do is add Nate Hobbs into the mix this offseason and that they were going to be okay. Yeah. So I'm not surprised that they're comfortable rolling with that group because it did seem like it was kind of pointing that direction. The one other kind of tangent, you know, arm off of this is the Jalen Ramsey part of it. Because you mentioned the Rams. I've just kind of pushed them to the side because I just assume they're going to work something out with Jalen Ramsey. But as we keep going further into June, you know, maybe that becomes a little bit murkier. I wonder what's holding this up now that the money is no longer an issue. Like the moment that June first hit, they could trade him and all of the financial machinations of it would look the same. So I'm curious why maybe we have a couple barriers to this that maybe we aren't seeing right now.

I still anticipate him getting moved and I still just feel like the Rams are probably the most logical spot based on their familiarity with him and what that other outside cornerback spot still looks like for this team. Yeah, he's, I was. wonder if there's just a bidding more. I mean, he is far away the best defensive back any team can add to their roster at this stage. And he's going to be expensive. So that's going to complicate it. He's also on the wrong side of 30. But where I think that gets interesting with Ramsey is we've, even he's talked about this for a long time in his career. Like when he starts to fall off as a corner, he's probably going to be fine as a safety. And so even if what you're paying him now would be pretty expensive for a safety, the idea of the cornerback cliff doesn't really scare me with him in a way

that it would for Rassul Douglas, Darius Slay, you know, Jire, Alexander, all these other guys. So even though he's expensive, I really think there probably is a bidding more, because again, I don't think any other defensive back on the market can change your secondary the way that Ramsey can because, one,

he's still a good outside corner. If you want to move him back to the nickel, I'm sure you could absolutely do that. And then truthfully, if this is the year you want to move him to safety, I don't know how open he is to that right now, but that is still on the board. So I'm, again, you mentioned the Rams, they're absolutely on the table. I don't know if the Cowboys would be this aggressive, but they should think about it.

The Raiders, I think, should think about it. And I've mentioned the Chargers 100 times for being a team that if they're serious, they should call about Jalen Ramsey. There's no massive base salary sitting there for Jalen Ramsey. So I wonder, like, what the financial conversations are. Like, because I don't know Miami taking some of that on doesn't seem as important with that current structure as it would for something like Jail and Alexander. I truly don't know what the sticking points are between Miami and whoever's looking to trade for

Jalen Ramsey. but I assume we will have some sort of resolution on that sooner rather than later, even if it's taken a little bit longer than we might have anticipated. All right, we are going to take our first quick break and then come back with a few more quick hitting news items here. The big one that came down, I can't remember where I was. It was, it's going to drive me crazy now. I want to say I was like in Sevilla and I was looking at my phone and saw I come through and

I was like, oh my God. And my wife was like, what happened? And I was like, Frank Ragnow retired. And she started, she's like, you're ridiculous. She's like, I thought something like, I thought something real happened. And I was like, this is real. This is a big deal. And I was trying to like explain to her why it was a big deal and like the fact that he was

really young. And, you know, the lions are this team that has a lot of ambitions right now. And so it's a big loss for them. And it didn't matter. By the end of the explanation, she was still like, that's an unacceptable reaction for anything that's not earth shattering. And so I felt bad about it and had to apologize. Yeah, that's one of those things that like for us, that's a completely normal reaction. But for anybody else, it's like short of somebody dying, everything under that is just like,

oh, well, you oversold it. I don't really care anymore. It was a very funny way for some to react to something while we were on vacation. But it was shocking. And it's shocking for a few different reasons. One, he's a young player. You know, Frank Ragnow's been in the league for seven years and still playing at an extremely high level. He's 29 years old. And for him to be a second team all pro player and as important to their current hopes as he is, that's what makes it so surprising. And I think that was my first reaction to it outside of, man, playing center and

playing offensive line in the NFL is like a daily hellish pursuit. And these guys are just going through so much more physically than we probably could ever understand. And obviously Frank Ragnow has played through ridiculous shit over. his career. Other than that reaction, I think the secondary one was this is why you have to do it while you have a chance, right? This is why you have to take advantage of these opportunities because you don't know what's going to happen. You're all pro center can retire at 29 when you're in the midst of a championship hunt. And even if you feel pretty good about whatever alternatives and contingencies you

have in the building are, this is a huge loss for a Lions team that still very much has championship aspirations. Yeah, this is the like peak thing of like windows don't really exist in the NFL the way that you think that they exist. Like the only way that you have a surefire window all the time is basically having like Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen. Like that's really all that it is. And Jared Goff is great, but he's not quite to that level. And I think to me, obviously going into this offseason, we knew this was going to be the last year, Ben Johnson. He leaves all that stuff. But so much of why we thought it might be okay is like, okay, well, if you, if you, have three pillars of, you know, that lead the intellectual, you know, pillars of all your

offense. It's your quarterback. It's your center. It's your offensive play caller. Okay, well, we thought we were going to have two of them. And now two of them are gone instead of two of them being there. And the issue that I have with it is like, okay, we knew Ben Johnson was great. I think almost everybody would say that he's a top six play caller probably. And then Ragnow, probably a good case that he was the best center in the league still. And like, so you're losing two guys who were like top five at their positions at minimum. And then the only one that you have left is Jared Goff, who is good, but is probably more like 10th at his position, which like, I know that seems a little bit ridiculous, but like you

are dropping a tier. And when he's the only guy left, I think that's a little bit of an issue. So I just, I don't think we're going to go back to like 20, 21 lines offense or anything like that where we don't have any of these guys and it looks terrible. But it's, it's pretty clear that I think the ceiling of this offense is going to be significantly lower than it has been the last two and a half years. Jared Gough has played really, really good football for the last several years. He is not one of those quarterbacks that creates an elite or high-end offense simply by being there.

This was an offense that relied on the component pieces to be what it's been over the last few years. And they still have plenty of those pieces. But when you start removing them one by one, the dynamic and the complexion of things really does start to change. And it does feel like that's the direction we're headed. Whether they can recapture that, I don't know. John Morton might be incredible. They might figure something out here with, you know, Graham Glasgow stepping in its center and Tate Rat, which is really good right away.

And Christian Mahogany becomes a hit. Like their ecosystem and just the overall environment they've created there deserves the benefit of the doubt. But we're really starting to chip away at things here slowly. I have faith that they'll be fine and not be like a, you know, it's not going to fall apart in any way. It's just, it's hard to see the ceiling anymore. And I think you can even, old friend Nate Tice has done a really good job of showing like when Frank Ragnow is off the field. They're really bad. The Lions versus when he's on the field.

I kind of removed it to like, okay, I took away 2021 because that was a fake season. I think as far as evaluating Jared Gough and stuff. And I just looked at Jared Gough with Frank Ragnall on the field from 2022 to 2024. When Ragnow is on the field, he is tied for second in EPA per dropback with Josh Allen. He is like an MVP level quarterback. And then when you take him off, he drops to 11th in EPA per play, which again is not bad, but so much of this lion's formula over the past three years has been like, we might be the best offense in football in any given day.

And I think when you remove that, you really, really, really either need some of the other young pieces on the offense to step up or you need this defense to ascend into something truly special, which even that again is going to be hard now that they've lost their defensive coordinator on that side of the ball. I think that sort of framing is very good and very informative. If you go from being like the third or fourth best offense in the league to the eighth or tenth best offense in the league, you are still very good. But that's a demonstrable difference. When you're watching those two types of units, you feel it.

And especially if that's that's another good one. And like a team that, again, in that general range, like slightly just outside of the top 10. But if you go from feeling like what the Niners have felt like over the last three or four years, which is I think the Lions were in a similar stratosphere to the, that to like what the Cardinals have been over the last couple years, you're still very good, but you feel the gap between those two types of teams. And I think which end of that spectrum the Lions end up on is ultimately going to determine a lot about how the next few years are going to go in Detroit. And now I just think it's becoming a much more uphill climb to stay on the high end of that

range. Exactly. Like it's just, and like again, maybe if they had done something that I thought was going to be an X factor this off season. Like if they had, not to make the joke, but like go out and got some sort of X receiver that would have made me feel better

about the offense that could change stuff. But you look at the way that the offense is constructed and it's like it's mostly going to be a lot of the same contributors unless Tesla is just like insanely good, which for a third round picket, that just feels like you're asking for a lot. Yeah, I'm not sure that's going to be the difference maker this year.

I think it's more like, we get the version of Jemir Gibbs we got in the back half of last year and he becomes like one of the, five most electrifying dynamic offensive players in the league. Like to me, it's just little tiny steps and bits of maturation from their in-house guys. And I think that brings me to what the replacement plan is going to look like. Tate Routledge was taking a lot of snaps at center during like rookie minicamp, which I think makes sense.

You're cross-training guys and you're giving yourself options. But the way that it feels right now to me is that Graham Glasgow, who has played some center before in his career, probably makes the most sense as like the 20-25 solution. you keep Routwich a guard, you keep Mahogany a guard, that still gets your best five out there. Like, that's still a good offensive line if the young guys hit. But it's just a different class of offensive line than what we've been dealing with with the lions over the last like two years. That's the thing. You're going from two years ago, they were like the biggest, meanest, nastiest interior that you could find and also had Pinesu.

And now you're going to a group that is going to be effectively a rookie in Christian Mahogany. know he played some last year, but like he's really moving into his first full year as a starter. Graham Glasgow, who has been like a nice replacement level player, but in, in the way that we've talked about like Patrick McCarrie for a long time, where it's like, you can get away with starting him, but you're probably always looking for another guy. And then Tate Ratledge, who I think we both liked and really liked that they picked him there. But again, first year offensive lineman, who was a second round pick. It's just, he's probably not going to be a pro bowl out of the gate the way that they've had some other guys along that interior. Just a lot more uncertainty with

everything associated with the offense. And I think it's okay to acknowledge that as we try to figure out what the lions are going to be this year. I'll miss watching Frank Ragnow play. Like independent of the implications of this, I think just acknowledging and recognizing that we're losing, like truly one of the best offensive linemen in the NFL and a guy that at his best was just an absolute badass watch. Like truly one of the baddest dudes in the league for several years and now it retires at age

29 just as a football fan. I feel like we're getting robbed of something. But I think that really does tell you how much this had worn on him and how much he felt like he needed to do what was best for him and what was best for his family. And he just, it's not just that he was very good and with Kelsey out of the picture, probably the best center in the league. It's that centers that big and that strong don't really exist very much. Like he was kind of unique in that sense. Like a lot of centers are usually you're undersized guy. That's why it's why you kind of want to put guards next to him. But Ragnow being like that 310, 315, where he could by himself move people if he needed to,

just aren't a whole lot of those guys in the league at any given time. And that's why whatever the replacement plan is, it's going to be a tough assignment to be as good as you've been over the last couple of years up front. Sticking in the NFC North here, just getting some contract stuff and just some refreshes on who's upset and who's not and how upset they are. looking at a couple of guys who are seeking out new deals. Elton Jenkins and Micah Parsons were both at OTAs for their respective teams. So I think that's something that's worth acknowledging. Terry McCorrin has not been. He was somebody who left OTAs early because he's upset with his deal.

That one's dynamic-wise. And in terms of how you're treating your homegrown stars, the fact that you're bringing in Debo, you're paying Debo, you go out, you get a splashy guy in Laramie Tunsell, and now you're not taking care of a guy who played extremely good football for you and is generally considered like one of the best locker room people in the entire league. That's just something to keep an eye on when we look at these teams that are shifting their aspiration level, right? Like this is a team that it was all gravy last year.

Now, you know, the disease of Moore starts to creep in a little bit. I'm not even saying that applies to Terry McCorm, but there are just different sorts of things you have to weigh here. And it feels like that's kind of what we're. Washington is working through. And think about how much shit Terry McClureen had to put up with until this year. It's kind of what I mean. Like it was awful for so many years.

He was a good soldier. And now he has a career year with a good quarterback. He looks around the league. It is like, look at the deal D.K. Metcalf just got. I signed mine at the exact same time, the last deal that he signed his. It's probably time for me to get paid here. And so I can understand him being a little bit frustrated by what this offseason has looked like given all of the shit he's had to eat over the last.

several seasons. Yeah, he absolutely should be. Like, it's not only that, but you make the good point of, like, last year they spent a lot to bring in a lot of guys on defense to, like, help Dan Quinn stuff. And it was a lot of, like, smaller deals, but it was a lot of guys. It was, it was, they just were spending a lot of money. And then this off season, they make the big blockbuster Laramette Tunsell trade, the Debo Samuel thing. Like, they have spread out a lot of resources who to guys who are this new regimes guys and their moves, which Terry McClorin for as good as he is, and especially as important as he is to the offense, he is not this regime's guy. Like he had already been there.

So like I wonder if there's just like a weird dynamic going on there. I don't, if I was him, I would be pretty pissed off because he is outside of the quarterback, obviously, pretty clearly the most important player on this offense. And for them to be a little bit like, you know, beating around the bush on trying to get a contract down. I think it's a little crazy because he's still young too. Like he's coming off his best year. It's just like it's just not a whole lot of it makes sense for why you wouldn't pay him.

again, if Terry McCorm is in a spot where it's like, you guys want to see what life looks like without me. I'm not sure you want that. I'm not sure you want to live that life based on the current version of the receiving core. And I'm sure he's in a spot. It's like, what else do you want me to do? Right. I had my best season when you finally gave me a quarterback. It's probably time for me to get rewarded for that, given what the wide receiver market now looks like.

So we'll see how this ends up playing out. But again, I am not surprised necessarily that Terry McCorn is a little bit frustrated with a lack of movement on that new deal. Speaking of frustration, this is a tough one. You guys recorded a show about quarterback battles, you and Sando last week, that hit on the Daniel Jones, Anthony Richardson situation. And that was before we got news

that Richardson is now out what looks like indefinitely with AC joint soreness and will not be practicing any time soon. So there's a chance we don't really see him until training camp. And why this is kind of a huge deal is that now we're having a second straight off season.

where a guy who desperately needs to work and improve is not going to get the opportunity to cleanly do that. And so now, if I'm a Colts fan and I see this, it might be somewhat overzealous, but I'm going into like full-blown panic mode seeing this and now having him have with another spring where he is not going to be getting the work that he so desperately needs. Because of the injuries, I'm getting pretty close to like, this is, this is, this is over because you make the good point. It's like it's not just that he's injured. It's that he's a guy who's injured and desperately needs reps and it's clear that he's not going to get them. And I think at

this point it's pretty fair to say he is just injury prone. And I know that's like such a fickle thing, but he's a guy who was dealing with injuries all the way back into college. Like he had had a meniscus tear. He had like a little bit of a hamstring issue. He's just, it's never like one huge thing with him. It's like not tearing an ACL or anything, but it's just always this. And then it's that and the way that he runs he's not very good at the way that we've talked about like kailer murray and lamar jackson they're very good at negating contact and not taking big hits anthony richardson is the opposite of that where he's very bad at managing his hits and he takes a lot of big hits um and he really takes that stuff on and i just for as much as in certain ways he

does look like cam newton cam newton was bulkier like he was a bigger heavier guy and he was able to take more hits than I think that Richardson has. And even then, Cam still got banged up all the time. So I just, I think we're getting to a point where unless Richardson dramatically is able to overhaul his health somehow, which I just don't know how that's going to happen. It's hard to see how he's ever going to get the reps to be the player that he want, which sucks. Because like, I still think he's incredibly talented and I still think that there were really good flashes that you would want to hold on to.

But at a certain point, it's like that that might be all that we're going to get. Yeah. These huge improvements that we've seen from quarterbacks over the last four or five years, whether it be Josh Allen or Jalen Hertz, guys who've made real strides, a lot of that stuff has come with pretty deep offseason work and detailed offseason work. You need to do that. Anthony Richardson for the last couple off seasons has been trying to do that. He's working with the same guys and the same trainers as a lot of these quarterbacks have.

But if you're hurt each and every offseason when that work should be happening, and you need to close the gap probably more than any other quarterbacks, quarterback in the league, you can start to see how that plan starts to short circuit a little bit. And it feels like we're trending in that direction. And, you know, we don't need to talk about Colts season outlooks here on June 9th given this. But I think a natural reaction to this and a natural kind of counter would be, well, they have Daniel Jones. You know, they have a stopgap here and a backstop if Richardson doesn't play. But what I keep coming back to with Daniel Jones and the Colts is like, how good does Daniel Jones have to be for this regime?

to save itself. Like, I'm just not sure what that ultimately looks like. Like, if Daniel Jones is so good that you're like a top 12-ish offense with Daniel Jones, I just don't know where that leaves this team. Because even if he's good and your offense is solid, and that's the best case scenario where you're still like a top 12-ish offense, then you're immediately back into the quarterback wilderness that has plagued this team for the last five years since Andrew Luck retired.

And so I just don't know how good that best-case scenario even, is if this team can't have Anthony Richardson. Like if he can't play, none of the other outcomes feel pretty good to me. I think that this is obviously going to feel terrible in the moment. But like if Anthony Richards can't really go, it would almost be better for the long-term health of the Colts. If Daniel Jones was just bad.

And like they just... But everybody gets fired. Well, but that's what I was going to say. It's like everybody gets fired. But like for the long-term health of the organization, that's probably better. It's just obviously going to feel bad. for the people that are in the building.

But like, I don't, like, if Richardson can't go, kind of to your point, there aren't that many high-end scenarios where Jones plays well enough and they don't get fired anyway. Like, it's just, it becomes a very sticky situation. Yeah, there's very little that's good on the other side of Anthony Richardson not working out. And I think we probably knew that, right? And as soon as you made that pick, you were essentially tying your fate to how the Anthony Richardson experiment was going to go. And it hasn't gone well so far.

And I definitely don't think this is pointing to it going any better. The fact that he can't practice and it's already, it's only June. It just feels so bad that like, I really do think if he was the guy who was able to get consistent reps that he could have figured this out. But we've just, his entire NFL career, it's been him trying to get off the ground. Because it's one setback and then it's another. And then it's another. And like, if you only have like these.

six week chunks at any given time where you're trying to figure stuff out. It's like, okay, you can learn all this stuff and then, okay, I'm off the field for another three, four weeks, or I'm off the field for the rest of the season. It's like, how are you ever supposed to get consistent experience? And so it's, it's unfortunate. I did, I really did like this player, but we're getting to the point where it's hard to see the rosy outlook. And listen, maybe he comes back in camp and he feels 100% and this ultimately turns around. But I just think this is a pretty dark cloud to already have emerged over your offseason. If you were the Indianapolis Colts.

Last, you know, bigger sort of news item here was the Bryce Huff trade. Bryce Huff being traded to the Niners for a 2026 mid-round pick. If you look at the cap implications of it, there was an option bonus that the Eagles ultimately did not pick up. So it transitioned to a base salary. They converted like $9 million of that to a signing bonus to spread out some of the money. They're really saving like $7 million in cash if you're the Eagles. There aren't a lot of cap elements to this.

The Niners are paying the other seven and a half. or so million of his base salary. So that's the other monetary thing to keep in mind here. I think it makes sense for both teams. The Niners taking a swing on this and now having a third pass rusher. You can bring Michael Williams along a little bit slower in pure pass rush situations, only paying $7.5 million to do that. And the Eagles just saving the cash, admitting that they made a mistake in the way that they're

quick to do often. I think for both teams, this makes a lot of sense, given the current makeup of their rosters and what last season looked like. Yeah, the Niners needed anybody and like Huff does make sense for a number of reasons. One, I think he's just a much different body than Michael Williams, which I think is cool. And then obviously he had the only season that Bryce Huff was like a super impact player that 10 sacks season a couple years ago was with Robert Sala. So there's a degree of like comfort there, I think with him potentially and Sala's going to know how to use him and how to unlock him. And then last year like he's schematically he's back in a spot that he's more comfortable with.

Like this is just a defense in a scheme where you're now at four three defensive end again. you're going to play in pure pass rush situations and we're paying you like a situational player and what you probably should have been from the beginning. Like he was fine on a great basis last year for the Eagles. He just didn't play a lot because I think there were serious concerns about what his limitations were. And he had like a risk thing that he was dealing with a little bit last year. So like if he can just be a little bit healthier and he doesn't even for this to be a successful signing for the Niners league, he doesn't even have to be a 10-s-sac guy again.

If he can be like a six-sac guy and just be like get the pressures on those third downs, that is completely acceptable. It's really all that he needs to be. And I think if I was reading it correctly, I pretty sure they can move on from him after this year if they want to for like literally nothing. So like if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Then who cares?

Like you didn't even really give up that much for it. Unless you really, really value that kind of mid-round pick, which I think where the nine is are at, not a big deal. And we don't even know what mid-round pick means. Like that could be a fourth round pick. That could be a fifth round pick. I have no idea what mid-round pick is. Either way, I feel like this is probably worth doing

if you're both of these teams. Exactly. And the Niners just spent, what, four picks on their front anyway? Like, I'm sure they'll be okay missing one of those for next year. And again, I think that when you look at what Mikel Williams is and what he profiles to be as a rookie, I feel like he's going to be somebody that can immediately contribute on early downs. Like, that is his selling point for the high floor version of his rookie season. And I think the past rush bag is probably going to take a little bit longer to develop.

And having a guy like Bryce Huff, who is the inverse of that, where you can situationally use him and not even have Michael Williams on the field for some of those early third downs. As he develops that part of his game, I actually think that's a decent outcome for this version of the Niners front. Or now, we could just put Michael Williams over a guard and say, hey, man, go through that guy's chest. Like, don't even think about it. No, oh, do I have to go outside inside? Nope, just go through that guy's chest will be okay. Yes, you're putting him in spots where he's going to be positioned to succeed

and not have to work through some of those struggles because you have somebody like Bryce off. and that's something that I can get behind. We're going to take one more quick break here and then come back with a few rapid fire news bits before we get out of here. We've got like five or six more of these. We can work through them pretty quickly. I think they're just worth acknowledging because they were news to me as I was looking back through things today.

And I'm sure for some people not following the day-to-day news of the NFL, some of them might have slipped through the cracks. This one happened, I believe, yesterday. But Nick Chubb headed to the Texans. We have not seen the numbers on this, which make me think they're probably pretty small. it's a tough situation just because he was coming off of such a devastating injury last year he did not look very good the hope is with a little bit more time removed from that injury we can get something closer to the old version of nick chubb but as he creeps toward 30 and

what we got from him the last time we saw him I think there's a reason he was still available at this point in the calendar and I think there's a reason that we haven't seen what the numbers on a deal like this look like it's the number the fact that we haven't really seen the numbers makes me think it's low, which makes me think that this is a, he's in a pretty tough spot recovery-wise. And not that like the recovery is going poorly, just that like he might not have the juice that he had. And it's funny, you can kind of look at it one to two ways. It's like, okay, well, he's come back from a major injury before and been the best running back in the league for a little bit. But kind of like you said, now he's getting closer to 30. This is already

something that he's dealt with before. Like, it's just running backs don't really come back from stuff this late in their career. So I would love if he did because I think, one, I think, what their Texans are trying to do on offense with a player like Nick Chubb could be awesome. I just, I just don't know how much we're going to get from him. Sticking in the old NFC or the old AFC North, Rashad Bateman gets an extension from the Baltimore Ravens, a deal that I think looks very palatable given what Rashad Bateman has been over the last couple years and given the rest of the receiver market. Three years, about $37 million, $20 million guaranteed.

If you look at AIV, it comes in just ahead of Darius Slayton and his deal that he signed this offseason, a little over 12 million a year, 28th overall in AAV among receivers. And it's just behind both the Darius Slayton deal and the Alan Lazzard contract a couple years ago in guaranteed money. And based on what Rashad Bateman has been for the Ravens over the last couple of years, I think you can feel pretty good about this if you're Baltimore. I think you definitely should. And like I know he's had a rocky tenure there. especially for a long time his chemistry with Lamar Jackson was bafflingly bad, but I do think last

year like genuinely it started to come along. It was a little bit better in the red zone. And then I think what really stood out to me was late in downs their chemistry was better. Like it just never seemed like Jackson wanted to throw to him down the field, especially late in the down at any other point in their career. And then finally this year, I don't know if it was extra work in the offseason. I don't know if they had a long heart to heart, whatever it was. They really finally clicked to this year. And, uh, for them to get him at the money that, yeah, if you can get him for Darius Slayton money for a guy who's going to be your receiver too, you should absolutely do that. I also think it's important because Rashad Bateman, we've talked about this a lot, is just a very different player than I anticipated him being coming into the league.

But him being more of that downfield target for the Ravens is important because they don't really have another one. Like, that's what he is in the overall formula of the offense. And so he becomes very important to make all the pieces fit together. And the last thing I'll mention here, just on like an efficiency basis, I wanted to read off this list. For players with at least 70 targets last year, here are the leaders in the NFL and EPA per target per true media. Amon Rossin Brown was number one. Devante Smith was number two. Rashad Bateman was number three.

This is among receivers. AJ Brown, Terry McLaurin, Ladd McConkey, Pooka, Nakuha, Jaden Reed, T. Higgins, Jemar Chase. So on a per target basis last year, Rashad Bateman among receivers with at least 70 targets, only Amon Ross St. Brown and Devante Smith ranked ahead of him. So he was an incredibly efficient player. And anecdotally, that makes sense. Like when you think about Rashad Bateman's 20, 25 season,

there were a lot of big time plays involved in that year. And honestly, if that's all he can be, whereas, like, we know what Mark Andrews is going to be on a given snap. And if Hopkins can just be like some degree of stabilizing force for them, and then you just get a handful of big plays from guys, like Zayflowers and Bateman, we're going to be a okay next year. It's going to be a fun group to watch this year with Hopkins because apparently he's looked good in offseason workouts and they're not paying him a lot.

They're not really relying on him to be a huge part of the offense. But I think skill set wise and what he can still do, it does make sense given some of the other pieces. But for that all to come together, Rashad Bateman needs to be part of it. So to see him get rewarded, not surprising. But I do think that's a pretty decent price given what some other guys in that general range of the receiver market have been taken home. offseason. Jonu Smith sounds like the dolphins are, you know, hoping to hang on to him.

There was some trade chatter. He's a little bit unhappy with his deal. I know the Steelers are potentially in the market for a pass catcher. They were sniffing around, which is hilarious and probably the least surprising thing of all time, the fact that Arthur Smith was trying to get Johnny Smith again. Drew Rosenhouse came out and said that Smith wants to stay in Miami. So I think just two things worth paying attention to here, like what the resolution is between Smith and the Dolphins, if there is one, and where the Steelers ultimately get

their other pass catcher because after the George Pickens trade and even before the George Pickens trade, given the types of receivers they had, they need to do something to make good on a one year run with Aaron Rogers. And I don't think that's going to, I don't think you can say that based on the guys they currently have in the building in Pittsburgh. No, I don't think so. Like, that's definitely not going to happen. It would be very funny if, I know a lot of the young receivers in Green Bay didn't actually play with Aaron Rogers because he's been gone for a while, but it would be very funny if that they were trading for a, you know, a former third round pick from Green Bay to go pay with Aaron Rogers again,

where like the whole bit was that he never played with first rounders in Green Bay, I think would be very funny. But as far as Johnny Smith goes, I actually don't think he'll get moved. I think this is just one of those things like he was coming off of a very good season that I'm sure that he probably didn't anticipate. And let's trying to see if he could get a little bit more money for that. Next one here, this is one that I just hadn't seen.

And so I figured we would just talk about it briefly. because we mentioned it on draft night, like how this was ultimately going to shake out with these Saints taking Kelvin Banks. It sounds like New Orleans is planning on moving Trevor Penning to guard and having Fulagam move over to right tackle and have Banks play left tackle. That feels like a reasonable solution to me,

given the guys they have on the roster and giving what that other starting guard spot would have looked like where I believe Dylan Radens would be penciled into play there if it wasn't Trevor Penning or one of those tackles. So I could easily get behind this, gives penning like another shot for things to work out. And if it does and you get real play out of those other two tackles, that suddenly becomes a pretty young,

pretty intriguing group for the Saints up front. Yeah, I like this pairing of what they're doing here because not only does it, it keeps banks at left tackle, which like that just makes things simpler for everybody, simpler for the rookie. You move Fuaga back to right tackle, which is what he played in college.

And even though he played admirably on the left side last year, he'll probably be better on the right side. I mean, that's just usually how that stuff goes. And then pending his whole. to make sense for him. Like it's, that part of it, I think totally tracks to me.

He's just a killer. Like he gets hands on you and it's over. And so that's, yeah, exactly. Putting him at right tackle, I think makes a ton of sense. And then Penning,

his whole issue was he's actually a pretty functional run blocker, especially again, when he can just get hands on guys and move them. He's just not great in space. I think he's a little bit clunky. And then in pass protection, he was all over. Okay, well, at Guard,

theoretically, we can hide some of that stuff a little bit better in, again, you don't know how well that's going to work, but if he can go from, just not being a good tackle to being even a replacement level perfectly fine guard, that's like a win for all three spots here. And I'd be pretty excited about that.

A couple more here. We don't have to spend a ton of time on this. I just love the fact that Mike McDonald was asked if Sam Donald was going to be the starting quarterback this year. And if there was any scenario where he wouldn't be. And it's like, his response is so great. She's like, I understand that you guys have to ask this. Like, it's the job. It's a crazy question.

And because it is a crazy question. Even if you're not 100% sold on the Sam Darnold experiment in Seattle, what the Seahawks paid Sam Darnold and where they drafted Jalen Milrow, Sam Darnold is going to be the starting quarterback for the 2025 Seattle Seahawks. I think we can all agree on that, even if we want a little bit more drama associated with how that's going to unfold. Yeah, even for as much as I like didn't love that move, we would need like a bottom fifth percentile outcome for the Darnold thing in camp

and a top like 95th percentile from Jalen Milrow in camp for there to be even a discussion. So it's, yeah, it's not happening. Yeah, this is not a Russell Wilson, Matt Flynn sort of scenario. The payments and the dynamics of this are still very different than a situation like that. Two injury things to hit before we get out of here, because I do think that they're meaningful based on what these teams are hoping to get from these guys this year. Ricky Pearsall reportedly out until training camp with a hamstring injury. And why this matters is because they're really relying on him this year in a post-debo Samuel

world in San Francisco. And now we have two off-seasons in a row where he's really not going to be able to practice as much as you want a young player to practice. Obviously, last summer, like, there's nothing you can do about that. Like, he gets shot in a freak accident and miss his time. But now you have a rookie season that was disrupted by something. And you have a second year where some of that work in the off-season is going to be disrupted. And that's just something that's worth keeping an eye on when we start talking.

about expectations for the Niners, how this is all going to go. Because remember last year, so much of it was disrupted, whether it was CMC being hurt, Brandon Ayuk with the holdout. So this being a note that the 49ers offseason is starting on again when they're going to have to rely on Pierceall in a pretty huge way, I think is at least somewhat notable. It is. And it's not just that he's replacing the snaps that they're losing from Debo, Samuel. It's that he is the pivot point for them, I think, wanting to be a little bit more of a

dropback team, a little bit of a little bit of. more of a throw down the field team. And obviously they went maybe a little bit overboard early last season and how that looked. But I really do think Pearsall is supposed to allow Brock Purdy to do a little bit more of the intermediate deep dropback stuff that he wants to do and that Chanahan, I think clearly thinks he can do. And so the fact that his development this year might be a little bit slowed, I do think is troubling, especially with Brandon Ayuk still kind of up in the air in terms of what we're going to get from

him early on. Talk about guys being hurt and staying hurt. Joey Bosa also dinged. hurt a calf during OTA workouts, he is going to be out till training camp. And this is another one where it was going to be hard to rely on him to stay healthy for long stretches at this point in his career based on how the last few seasons have went. But they're going to need him. Like if the bills are going to be what we want the bills to be, other than like a shocking

breakout season from somebody like Landon Jackson or one of the other rookies, like what they pay Joey Bosa and what he looks like in the overall plan they have on defense, they need really good play by Joey Bosa by the end of this season. So the fact that it's June and we're already talking about him being hurt, things could easily get better, but not the way you want to start things with this new pairing of him being in Buffalo. Yeah, and I like that you said by the end. Because thankfully for them, that is really all that's going to matter. Having Josh Allen, having Sean McDermott, having enough other bodies in the front,

like they'll be okay through December 20th. after that point, it's like if Joey Bosa isn't healthy or if he hasn't had much, like he's, he would obviously want him to have some playing time before then too, just so he stays warm and he's ready and he has NFL reps this year. Like it just, you would hope that he's, he's able to at least play like a handful of games. And they'll probably keep him on a pitch count, I would assume, because they have enough bodies there. But like the fact that you can't even get him into August on the pitch count is a little bit

worrisome. But we, that's exactly what I'm at. Like, how much does this matter if he ends up being healthy there in his season? Not much. but the fact that we can't even get through OTAs without him having to deal with something, not the way that you want to start. All right. That is all we've got for today.

We will be back with another mailbag tomorrow. Want to tweak things just because of what the schedule looks like with me getting back and not being around when we typically record the mailbag. So we're going to be recording the mailbag for Wednesday this week. And then we're going to be back with another one on our regularly scheduled time next Monday. So just something to look out for. And programming note, we're back. to four shows a week. I'm back. We're going to be back throughout the entire off season. So that's

something that you guys can look forward to. This week, we have things push back a day. But for the most part, it's going to be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, all the way through the off season. You know, we'll talk about things as we get a little bit closer to training camp and I'm on the road, things of that nature. But for at least the next month or so, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. That is going to be our cadence here on the athletic football show. Very happy to be back. very happy and grateful to everyone who filled in for me while I was gone. We will talk to you guys very soon. Thanks for listening.