The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Addressing the Jon Gruden situation with Tashan Reed & Vic Tafur

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

The Athletic’s Tashan Reed and Vic Tafur join Robert Mays to discuss Jon Gruden’s resignation as Raiders’ head coach. They talk about the insensitive emails, the timing of the move and how owner Mark Davis has handled the situation. They also examine how this impacts the locker room, who will lead the team in the interim and where the organization goes from here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Today's Tuesday, October 12th. A little bit of a change of plans today. Obviously, most of you have heard about the news regarding Raiders head coach John Gruden. It was announced last night. He is resigning.

Put out a statement, the Raiders also released that news. This happened shortly after a New York Times report published details about a series of emails from Gruden that included homophobic, misogynistic, and racist remarks that followed. emails that were also released during a Wall Street Journal report last week. Gruden has resigned as the coach of the Raiders, and to talk about that story and what comes next. I'm pleased to welcome our Raiders, writers, at the Athletic, Vick Tafer, and DeShan Reid. Guys, thank you very much for doing this.

I know that you've had a lot on your plates here in the last 12 hours or so. All good. It's all good, man. Thanks for having us. Absolutely. So, Deshawn, let's go back to last week when the first report from the Wall Street Journal came out, which included Gruden using a racist trope to describe DeMari Smith, who was the executive director and the NFLPA.

Gruden issued an apology, but he was allowed to coach against the Bears on Sunday. What was your reaction to the immediate response from the organization to that first report? And when you surprised that Gruden actually did get to coach on Sunday against Chicago? No, I wasn't surprised that he got to coach just off of the timing of it. I think, you know, for one, with the story coming out Friday, seemed very synchronized because it came out shortly after Gruden finished speaking for that day. And so we didn't have a chance to ask him any questions about it. and the Raiders never have, you know, availability before game days along with many other teams. And so, you know, once it came out that they did receive additional emails, I figured something else will come out at some point.

But it seemed like they wanted to take their time, kind of go through it, investigate. You know, given what we know now, I mean, it should have hit them pretty immediately there on Friday when they got all of those details. But it didn't shock me, given that that was the only one that became public that he did go on and continue to coach on Sunday. It's not to say that obviously that was, you know, a very clearly racist remark. But it was sort of some room in there for them to say, you know, it was 10 years ago, you know, it was a one-time outburst. You know, he was angry. He hasn't said that kind of thing since then. And that's all the public knew at that point.

So it was very easy to kind of massage that going into the game. And so it didn't surprise me at that point. But obviously, in retrospect, that was a mistake. And we know that there was much more coming. And Vic, you wrote today that you thought the league didn't want him to coach in that game. And they clearly had a hand in the report that was published on Monday. Can you shine a little bit more light on the communication maybe between the league and the Raiders? Because Davis said on Friday they would review the email along with the other materials provided by the league.

So what sort of role did the league play here? And what sort of response do you think it wanted from Mark Davis even as soon as Friday? Yeah, that last phrase definitely, I remember on Friday reading the statement, definitely got my attention because you're wondering what else they have to review. And I think we don't know exactly what they gave Mark. Davis on Friday when they gave him all the stuff. But to me, it seems like they must have given them all this, you know, whatever they had, because I know that night, Mark Davis talked to Chris Mortensen. And he admitted that he said, also besides his thing with Smith, I also said something about Goodell. I used some derogatory comments towards Roger Goodell. And I'm more

said that to a Sunday morning show, which they often do those guys. So that kind of came out Sunday morning. So, but clearly he didn't tell him what he said, because that was obviously, I mean, there are definitely a lot of things you can call people, but that you just can't do. And so I think my sense looking back now is that I think the way is must have known, Mark Davis must have had more informationally let on. And I think to me, like you asked a shot about if you were surprised with John coaching on Sunday, I think my initial reaction was the Raiders always want to push back.

If you say, hey, we want you to do this. And they're saying, yeah, I don't want to do that. I mean, we're going to do our own way. Yeah. I think in this case, clearly their own way wasn't good enough for the league because I think the timing of it is such that he coached Sunday, Monday, these come out and more emails come up to New York Times. And clearly at that point is over.

I mean, John Gruden cannot coach this team again. So I think clearly someone had, I don't say, agenda is a wrong word, but definitely there was a point of attack here where they definitely wanted at results, and they got that result on Monday night. Josh, what do you think was kind of the moment where it became clear to you that the organization just could no longer have Gruden as the coach? What do you think ultimately is what made this happen? I think it had to be that, you know, when those New York Times emails came out and then became

public and, you know, you saw the combination of not just the racist comment, but the misogynistic comments, the homophobic comments, and, you know, combining that all together with, I mean, obviously the Raiders, like many rosters in NFL, are as largely composed of black players. They have the first openly gay player on active roster and Carl Nassad. Obviously, they have several women who work for the organization and players and other employees who have women in their lives

and the combination of all those factors and the fact that, you know, the timeline was, you know, from that 2011 email all the way up to as recently as 2018 according to a New York Times report. I mean, that shows a repeated pattern of bigotry. And, you know, for any organization, you know, I don't see how they could let that fly, particularly one with the Raiders, given their current makeup and history that they have as one of the trailblazing

organizations in terms of diversity. Once those emails came out and it became public and all the public pressure came on, it was just like they have to do something about this, whether it was, you know, firing Gruden or having him resigned, but there was just no way that he could continue to be the coach from that point. Among all of those factors, Vic, do you have a sense of which may have been weighed more heavily? I mean, obviously this was the correct conclusion. This was all the ways they're going to be the conclusion when that New York Times

story came out. But do you think it was about the Raiders handling the fallout? Do you think it was the way the locker room would respond? What do you think was kind of the most important aspect of this ultimately being the conclusion here? It's just a number. I mean, I think I'm not sure they could deal with the one. I mean, even though it was just the one case on Friday, I think at some point there had to be a punishment. I don't know. It was any of a suspension or if it was a fine, but clearly Mark Davis had to do something even with that one this week. But then the other one's hit on Monday. I think just the volume and the what, what he said the degree of the

countenance he had were just, they're all ugly. It was just something you can't have. And he really is the face of the franchise. Mark Davis kind of gave him the keys to the whole thing. And really, I mean, he is the Raiders, and he's the Raiders right in him the last three years as far as every move he's made. And he's done the whole roster, the coaching staff, the front office,

he really is the face of that franchise. You can't have the face of the franchise saying those things. And even no matter what the forum is. People have mentioned about Carl Nassad, but to me, it doesn't matter. if there is a gay player or not on the team, you can't, you can't use that word. And so I just think, I just think the sheer number of emails.

And I'm sure they were bracing for, like, you know, another hit. And I think the degree of that hit they took on Monday was just too much for everyone. Mark Davis, the players in the locker room, and everyone had to realize this could not go on any further than Monday night. Do you think that in this case, he's more than a head coach. He's a guy who was a visible person in the league. personality in the league. Do you think that he's more kind of interwoven with what the NFL is than maybe your standard head coach would be?

And do you think that was part of the league's thinking and kind of wanting to show some urgency as it related to this? I have no idea why they have the urgency. I'm not sure. Again, his comments are reason enough to get fired. You don't need to look too much into it. But I will say that he's the one guy that's been kind of, you know, I don't know, target this wrong word, but just that his emails came out.

And there's an investigation of the Washington football team, you know, six hundred thousand emails, whatever was. And he's the one guy. And they haven't happened now. I mean, they had his emails for a long time. Like, why now is my question. Why, why him, why now? Those are answers we probably won't get. But it does, I mean, it is a little surprising that this all falls on him at this point in time.

So, Sean, you know, we talked about this a little bit already. We call Nassib, and which is the makeup of an NFL locker. I mean, this is a place that it's clear that John Greer. and with everything that happened, he was not fit to lead a group like an NFL locker room and what it looks like. I know you guys aren't in the locker room these days, but do you have a sense of what the fallout would have been with those guys, just how difficult it would have been for him to get that group back and just what the overall reaction from the players might have been to all of this? It sounds like, because obviously like you said, we don't have locker room access this year. And so given the timing of when the story came out, the only opportunity that we've had even to this day to,

to speak to some players that's on the record about this is the post-game press conference they had after their loss to the Bears. And I believe they only brought four players out there, one of them being Derek Carr, and Josh Jacobs, Unique in Gakwe and Denzel Perriman. I would say pretty much everybody besides, in Gakway, he basically said no comment and others had favorable things to say about Bruden. But, you know, it's a little bit of, you know, it sounds like Gruden had a team meeting Thursday night. That's when he got worried about the initial story coming out with with that racist comment that he had. It doesn't, is this uncertain whether or not, you know, he just addressed that, that particular

comment. Did you address all of these comments and let them know everything that was said? Because it's not like from what the players were saying. They really only commented on the comment about Smith, you know, and they didn't address, you know, all the homophobic remarks or the sexist remarks. And so I'm not sure how much was communicated to the players on that end. Did they have the full scope of the situation when they spoke after the game Sunday? it's hard to tell.

But even, like I said, from Ingaquay's response, while he didn't say much, just his demeanor and the tone said a lot. And so I think with that initial remark alone, that obviously, you know, potentially fractured or damaged relationships that he had with players. And I think with those additional comments that came out, I just don't, it may not have been everybody in the locker room, but I had to feel like at least a large chunk of the locker room would have turned on him at that point. Vic, you mentioned, obviously, he's the face of the franchise.

and the contract that he got in 2018. It's a 10-year $100 million deal. And I'm curious, do you have a sense of what sort of maybe legal complications or other aspects might have been involved with the timing here? Was there a reason that maybe they were dragging their feet because there's something to consider on that side of things? I'm just not sure how that all plays out and what sort of mechanisms are in place now with his dismissal and whether the Raiders have to pay this out. What sort of sense do you have for all of that and what's going on behind those closed doors? Yeah, the funny thing about this contract is that, you know, I was never really was official.

It was just kind of what Bob Lamont, as the agent kind of said in the rare, is, oh, yeah, we gave him whatever. That's what we did. So I'm not really sure if they really gave him $100 million for 10 years. I mean, sure it was a lot of money for a long time, but we really know the exact details. Bob Lamont, and God bless him, has a little tendency to exaggerate a little bit for his clients.

That's fine. But so my first sense, again, Mark hasn't talked to us, but my first sense was that maybe they had him resign rather than firing because that way they can not pay them. That's cut off the payment cycle. But then again, shouldn't there be a morality clause in the contract? And these are things I don't really know.

And we can only guess that. But knowing the Raiders and they definitely are mindful of their pennies, I think definitely making sure they weren't liable for any more money or on a hook for any more money, I'm sure as part of it at some point. Deshaun, like you wrote last night, Marcus Thompson also alluded to this today for his piece in the athletic. This is a franchise that's really proud of it. its history of inclusion during Al Davis's lifetime and during his reign as the head of this franchise.

Do you think that history was considered in any way over the past week? Even after the first email from the Wall Street Journal came out, do you think there are people in the building that likely brought this up as they considered kind of what should happen next with Gruden? Absolutely. I mean, you know, not only the guys and people that are in the building now, but I mean, you know, the Raiders have such a long history of people that, you know, are maybe retired both players, executives that are still with us. that, you know, if you let this kind of thing fly, you have to handle that with them.

And the Raiders, I mean, they value alumni like few other franchises out there. And, you know, ever since, you know, Mark Davis inherited a team from Al Davis, you know, as many of us do, he's been sort of trying to live up to this image of his father and do things the way that his father would. And his dad, you know, wouldn't, you know, accept things of this nature and employed somebody that he knew, you know, had behaviors of this manner. And so I think, you know, there is some room to criticize Mark and how he handled it. You know, he has had some missteps in the past.

As Marcus Thompson wrote about, he did, you know, initially asked his players not to protest in his jerseys back when the whole Calac-Captapaping situation was going on. And earlier this summer, he had a miscue with a I can brief tweet sending from the George Floyd verdict. But I think, you know, him, it's sort of, it's a little bit weak, you know, just allowing Gruden to resign with this rather than firing him, I would say. It sends a different message when it's almost like Gruden is the one taking the high road and then stepping down and being like, oh, I don't want to be a distraction to the team. And then the only statement you get from Mark Davis to this point is, you know, I accept the resignation. And you would imagine, I mean, if this isn't a situation where you could say that you're firing somebody for cause, I don't know. you know, what else could be in that kind of situation or morality clause, as Vick said, you would figure even if they fired him.

It would be a way to get out of most of it, if not all of the money remaining on his contract. And, you know, at the end of the day, Gruden is no longer the head coach as the final result will be the same. But I think the optics of Mark Davis allowing him to resign rather than fire him, it just sort of gives a bad look. And then also, you know, as somebody that was, you know, John Grub, this isn't his first time coaching the Raiders, you know, Mark Davis had time in the past to spend years. around John Gruden.

And you assume there was some sort of vetting process when it came to rehiring of, you know, in 2018. And so at no point in that span, you know, none of these kind of behaviors, you had no sense, no clue of maybe what kind of character that John Gruden had. You know, it's fair to question those kind of things, especially considering, you know, how Mark Davis handled this and some of the missteps that he's made in the past. You mentioned, you said weak in the response to this. And it just seems like them and their hesitation or as an organization. Do you think this is emblematic of just a vacuum of leadership at the top of that organization, period? Do you think that this is an example and a reminder of why John Gruden and a figurehead like him was important for this organization in the first place? Because they felt a little bit rudderless.

Yeah. I mean, this is, I mean, they've had a lot of transition even before this. Of course, the relocation from Oakland to Las Vegas was a huge endeavor, but from a business and football perspective, of their former team president, Mark Badain, stepped down this year right before the season ended, which was major change in somebody that Mark Davis leaned heavily on throughout that relocation. And, you know, this is a franchise that, you know, in terms of on the field success, I mean, you can count the number of winning seasons they've had since 2000 on one hand.

And so, you know, ever since that 2016 year, essentially things have been spiraling down pretty fast. And, you know, Gruden was a splashy higher. You know, he was somebody that had brought the, the franchise success in the past. It was easy to sell PR-wise. It got fans excited. There was somebody that, you know, Mark obviously thought highly of, and they thought they could get on-field results.

And, I mean, you can say, you know, obviously, off-the-field stuff is terrible, but also on the field, you know, that they hadn't made the playoffs under Gruden. You know, they had a losing record under Gruden. And so in both areas, really, this was an all-around failure for the Raiders. You said, you know, this is a team that there are real questions

about where the franchise went from here, even before any of this. and they were concerns about the viability of the partnership between John Gruden and McMahon McMeok for a while. Now this is a team with no discernible direction, but Vic, for the immediate future, what is the solution here? Who's going to take over? What does that staff look like now for the rest of the 2021 season? Well, Richard Versauchio will be the interim coach because he's been around for a long time. It's a coordinator who's kind of staying in their role.

As far as Mike Mayak, I think that's really one of the big questions we have is what with Mark Davis, do it. Will they give him more power? Because right now, you know, so far, Mike's just kind of been the guy who runs the whole draft process. But when it comes time to make the final pick, John has final say. Any free agent moves, John has final say. So Mike is kind of a, you know, kind of a, you know, a factor kind of general manager, not really a full on general manager. Will he be able to do that now? I'm not so sure. I think, you know, Mark hired the last couple of coaches. They probably wants to hire the next one. So I don't really know if Mike Matt will be given a bigger role, rest of this year or even going forward.

So that's one of the big things I want to see from whenever Mark talks to us. But that's my big question really. What is Mike Max, you know, job right now? How has it changed? Do you feel like Mike's background is obviously unconventional too in the same way that John came from TV? He's not somebody who has a long history and long background in NFL front offices. It almost feels like it was purposeful. You have somebody that isn't going to bump up against what Gruden wants and what his vision for the team is.

it almost feels like now you may have to over correct the other way. You may have to bring someone in who has a proven track record in this job, a proven track record in a role like this to kind of oversee what the football side of this looks like. Yeah. And at beginning of the season, I mean, Mike even says much. He thought his job was not in jeopardy, but he's nothing in the hot seat because he's made some questionable draft picks. They haven't had success. You mentioned no winning season.

So I think Mike kind of said, if they don't win this year, he's probably gone. And does that change? now that John's gone, I'm not sure. Mark Davis may have the same opinion of these draft picks. He may not think highly of some of the moves they've made. So maybe Mike's still in the Hotsie. Maybe Mike is also a guy who's gone at the end of the year.

So if they don't make the playoffs. Because I think in Mark Davis's mind, they've done enough, you know, in terms of the roster, that they should be. And they were three and O. And everyone was saying, you know, Derek Carr MVP, playoffs, people are going crazy. And now they're three and two,

they've lost the face of their franchise. So it's been a pretty drastic turn in the last three weeks. And I think Mike May, I could definitely be a guy who also, you know, at some point, has to pay a price for that. You mentioned Derek Carr. I mean, the football side of this is obviously secondary, but I think it's still worth talking about and asking about. Deshaun, do you have a sense for what Gruden being gone will do to Carr's future? Because they had to make a decision about this.

And it felt like the partnership between those two guys was working. Now, there were aspects of the team, whether it was the offensive line this year, the defense over the last couple years, that were lacking behind. But Derek Carr was playing at a reasonably high level under Gruden. Now, this almost feels like a way to hit the reset button in a pretty substantial way. Overall, with every single major piece of the organization, Derek Carr included, do you think that Gruden's future now impacts what Carr's future might look like? Yeah, I think Carr coming into this year, even though he has another year on his deal next year,

it's completely non-guaranteed. And typically quarterbacks, his stature, they don't play on expiring contract, essentially. And so this offseason, as you said, it was going to be the time. or if they're going to extend in his time to do it. And I think he's still sort of auditioning this season. I think the barometer for him before Gruden resigned was making the playoffs. You know, I figured all along that if he did play well enough and a team did have the team success to make the playoffs for the first time since 2016, that they would go ahead and reward him with the extension.

Because when it just comes to his stat line, I mean, you know, the stats have been there. You know, for him, it's just a matter of, is this a guy that can get you over the hump? And, you know, in a sense now he's auditioning for a coach that doesn't, exist. I mean, there's a chance, I guess that, you know, we can always say the interim coach has a chance at the full-time job, but most likely they're going to go externally in order to decide who their next head coach is. And, you know, while Derek doesn't know who that may be, you know, if he goes out and balls out the rest of this year, I think kind of, you know, maybe that, you know, the postseason thing, you know, it'd be hard to hold that against him or the rest of the team,

given, you know, what kind of a, typically when this sort of things happen to the team, they don't bounce back, you know, especially in the middle of the season. And so if this thing falls off the rails is really hard depending on the players. But if Carr somehow manages, especially with the issues that they've been having up front with the offensive line, if he plays at a high level this year, you know, he could end up, as you said, sort of resetting things and potentially moving forward with the Raiders on that extension. It's interesting because I think in a lot of ways, the moves they made this offseason from Gus Bradley to some of the signings they made on defense, it was designed as an immediate fix

for what this version of the roster looked like. And you could talk yourself into the offense. They were a borderline top 10 unit over the last couple years. They did a lot of really good things. If you wanted to say, oh, you know, we get a step forward from Henry Ruggs, and we get one more year in this offence, and this can all come together. We just need stopgap competency on defense. And that felt like the plan.

And for a while it looked like it was working. But now, if you remove kind of the biggest jenga block from that entire plan, which is Gruden and the way this offense functions, I don't know what this team is supposed to look like in 2022. Because everything they did, this spring felt like a direct response to Gruden's vision for what the Raiders were supposed to look like. And when you remove Gruden from that equation, I just have no idea in 2022 what this team is supposed to look like, what they're supposed to be, and what the future, both near

and long term, is supposed to look like. I think that's maybe is their greatest pitch towards the next head coach is, you know, if you take a look at the salary sheet, they should have around, depending on what the final cap number comes in at, you know, they have maybe a around $50 million in cap space. You know, if the next coach does decide, you know, Derek Carr is somebody that we want to do and extend them. That's another around $20 million that you could also free off the books. They are on a team that's, you know, mortgage all their future high round picks.

And so even though this team obviously has been built and completely reconstructed in John Gruden's image, there's a pretty quick turnaround window there where they could, you know, reconstruct the roster to a pretty sizable degree. The Raiders are a team. They're largely made up of players. that are still on their Ricky deals or veterans who are on one-year deals or maybe two-year deals with like guarantees in the second year. And so just in terms of the structure of the roster,

there is some flexibility there for whether it's Mike Mayock, staying on board getting more power or another coach coming in and getting personnel decision power or kind of a combination of a new GM and a coach, there is some room there to kind of turn this roster over pretty quickly. What were you going to say, Beck? One of the things that we look at John's management style And I think one of the critiques of him or that he would change his opinion a lot. Like one day of practice, one guy would be his favorite player.

The next day he ripped the guy to shreds because he wanted to play with him. So he definitely changed. You ever rode this kind of roller coaster. I think when you look at this handling of car, I think they had the manual pretty much down pat where they knew you have to give him a good offensive line. You have to give him protection. You got to make sure he's confident. He doesn't take a step-ups in the pocket. And he'll excel.

He's playing much better. They'll pay a lot of money for Trent Brown, Gabe Jackson, Rodney Hudson over the year. years. They really wanted to get that thing set. They had the most expensive offense line in the league, right? For years, they had the most expensive offensive offense. Yeah, that was definitely a goal there. So this year they mentioned they wanted to autocorrected the defense. Can I get that fixed up? And that came at the price of the O line. I think that's a problem the last two weeks where teams that, because the car is really good against the blitz. If you blitzed or a car, he'll pick you apart. So I think teams now

the last few weeks are seeing, we just get, you know, a base floor rush, get the pressure, do some little stunts here and there. And we get to him without blitzing, and this old line can't support him. His old line's going to fall apart and he'll be affected by it. He doesn't play as well under, most guys don't play as well under pressure. But Carr especially has definitely, it seemed like another step down where he won't go through his reasons and much.

He'll make some bad decisions. And now he's trying to be more aggressive, by force interceptioneering there. So I just think that one of Gruden's things that kind of is going to cost him was that the whole old line thing, he changed off the off season, knowing the kind of quarterback he had, and that's really put him in the bad spot for this team right now going forward. Vic, wouldn't you say that's an argument against having your head coach be the ultimate

decision maker in your franchise? Because often the motivations and desires of a coach are so short term. They're so, what is the best team I can assemble tomorrow? And that's why the counterbalance of having someone who has the long term view of how to build the roster is ultimately important when you construct a front office because you need people who are going to take the long-term view of this thing. And it seems like that whack-a-mole that the Raiders have had to play and some of the decisions they've made even in regard to positional value.

And the way that you're supposed to value these sorts of resources, there's always been a dissonance there. And I think that's the problem in a lot of ways of having a coach be the one who ultimately makes these choices. Right. And the thing with John is, I think this is one thing I wrote about like before the year started was that, um, One of the thing that's always followed him is the whole storyline that, you know, he won with the Buccaneers.

But did he really win? Was that really his team? Well, I think in his mind, he always heard those comments. I always bugged him. Like, you know what? I'm going to go somewhere. I'm going to do it my way. I'm going to build a roster the way I want it from top to the bottom.

There's only three guys now in this roster who were here when he got hired, which is a pretty amazing number. And I'm going to do the whole coaching staff and everything will be my way. So when we win, everyone will know, you can't argue. You can't say, oh, he had this, he had that. No, this was John Gruden, stamp. John Gooden wanted to title his way. I think that was, like you said, that's not an ideal way to run a football team. Obviously, they're paying for it now.

But that was clearly, I think, something in his mind he wanted to accomplish and show people. You know what? You can't belittle me when I've done. This is definitely, you know, if I win here, I deserve a lot of credit. Well, that's the problem when you have that person at the center of everything and then you take that person out, then what happens? So, Tishon, as you're looking at how they're going to pick this next head coach, what's sort of person do you think should be the guy they chase to be the long-term answer here? What sort of coach? What sort of background? What sort of personality should Mark Davis be looking

for? And what role should Mark Davis play in all of this? Because the last two times that he's been involved in this coaching search, it has not ended very well. Yeah, I think it's fair to question, you know, whether Davis should lead the search, particularly, you know, given the, I'm not the same is all on him, but the huge misstep that that was ultimately made in hiring, rooting and, you know, not, you know, becoming aware of those emails that he had in his previous pace of employment. And, you know, it kind of seemed like he more so went with his heart and making the splashy move more so than making what may have been the smartest decision at that time. Obviously, all this is easier to say in retrospect with everything that we know now,

but it still remains the case. And so, you know, I think, you know, moving forward, just from my vantage point, I think it would be better for them to move away from that. You know, coach is the final decision maker on everything across the board and kind of runs the entire franchise just because they've seen, you know, for almost three and a half years where that got them and it didn't go very well. And so I think focusing on a coach who really can just hone in on the X's and O's and make sure that the on-field product is where it needs to be

because it hasn't been for this franchise on a consistent base. for so long now. I feel like that has to be the primary focus. Obviously, character has to be huge anyway, you know, I think anytime you're hiring a head coach, but especially coming off in something like this, you can't have somebody else that has, you know, a questionable background or, you know, whatever, you know, the area may be questionable in. And somebody that you're sure can be, you know, a leader of a locker room and, you know, however your roster looks moving forward, you know, whatever the composition is, you're certain that they can lead that group. And so I really think it has to, it sounds kind of basic, but really just somebody that can focus on that football side.

And, you know, whether Mike Mayock is the guy that gets, you know, putting more power to handle the other stuff where you bring in somebody else kind of conjoining together with the GM and coach. I think that's the way that they should approach it more so than trying to make another flashy hire or giving somebody the keys to the car again. Vic, you've been around this team for a while. I'm curious, who does Mark Davis have as a resource? Who are the other voices, either on the business side, on the football side? When they make this next decision and when they decide what the next era of the franchise looks like, who's in that room right now that can act as a sounding board for him? Not much, but he's run things in the past by John Madden and Ron Wolf.

And I think he'll try and lean on former players he talks to. But really, I mean, not only in the football side, but also he mentioned Mark with Dane leaving on the business side. So in the last four months, he's lost the two people who ran the entire organization. They ran the whole thing. Those two young Dan and Bruden ran the whole thing. So he's definitely a void now where he has to figure out who's going to do what, how's going to work. And so I don't think he has those resources that really you would want to have.

And I just think that we've looked at the last few coaching concerts he had. You know, the raise the knock on them in the draft is they fall in love with a guy and they pick him way too soon because they love them. They know. But Mark's kind of the same way with the coaching hires. Like if you, if you impress him, like, Dexter Ria's confidence and John Gruden, obviously, the swagger, definitely those guys, and got to Mark Davis early on, he was like, wow, this is my guy. And I don't care what anybody else says. So I don't know really if having someone that they'll turn to for advice is really going to matter once Mark Davis falls in love with you. And that's pretty much a done deal.

So, I mean, we'll see if he learns from the last two things. But my guess is he won't. My guess will be he'll go through the process. us have some names he looks at and whoever he hits it off with, I think we'll be the next coach of the Raiders. Vic, in your piece that you wrote today, which people have not checked it out, they should go read it on the athletic. The last thing you kind of ended on, the last note was, why did this happen now?

And you kind of allude to that earlier. We don't have really any concrete answers about that. Do you have any sense of the timing as to why this is unfolding in this moment when this investigation into the Washington football team has been going on for months, and months and months now? Or is that something that we won't know until a lot more of this becomes clear? Well, I was talking to people in the organization

on Friday when this is first happening, the one theory that kept getting put out there, and this is, you know, it makes, I don't make sense, but it's a decent theory was that, you know, Smith was up for re-election on, on Friday. This all came out the day of the reelection, which is really an amazing coincidence to think about it?

So is Smith a guy perceived as being a league-friendly guy, the league wanted him to make sure he was still in place? And maybe maybe that makes sense. Because again, why now? Why would this come out at this time? It was definitely a fascinating thing. And so that's the theory that Rayors had when I talk to people in the organization on Friday. And it's not a bad theory.

I have no idea if it's true. But I don't have any other theories. It's only one I have so far. So I think I'll go with that one until I hear something else. We'll be diving into a lot more of kind of the big picture league ramifications of this on tomorrow's show with Lindsay Jones. In the meantime, guys, I sincerely appreciate. appreciate your time. I know you've been chasing a lot of stuff here in the last few hours. So appreciate you getting up early out there on the West Coast. Thank you for all of the light

you help shine on this. And we'll catch up with you guys later on. I appreciate it. So so much. Thanks for having us. All right, guys, thank you very much for listening. We'll be having our mailbag episode with Ted tomorrow. So just be on the lookout for that. Just kind of changing up the schedule here a little bit. And then we will be having our Thursday episode with Lindsay, we will get into a lot more of the Gruden news and again, kind of the big picture of lead thoughts as it results as relates to this. Until then, thank you guys very much for listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.